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Kaylore
02-04-2011, 08:10 AM
On 87.7 the Ticket, Elway confirmed the team is aware that there MAY be a rift between Tim Tebow and Kyle Orton and would like everyone on the team to have a good working relationship.

Archer81
02-04-2011, 08:11 AM
Hmm.

As Dove Valley turns.

:Broncos:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2011, 08:12 AM
hahahahaha, of course.

God forbid he think before he speak ONCE.

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 08:14 AM
Did he seriously admit that on the radio? Transparancy is not always a good thing. Some things need to be taken care of in-house.

What is the rift between them? Orton just pissed he lost his starting job, or is it something more personal?

PRBronco
02-04-2011, 08:15 AM
Yay transparency!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2011, 08:15 AM
Did he seriously admit that on the radio? Transparancy is not always a good thing. Some things need to be taken care of in-house.

What is the rift between them? Orton just pissed he lost his starting job, or is it something more personal?

The rift could also go the other direction. Maybe Tebow doesn't like Kyle's drinking, and told him so.

boppool
02-04-2011, 08:16 AM
Orton = devil worshiper.

Broncoman13
02-04-2011, 08:16 AM
Did he seriously admit that on the radio? Transparancy is not always a good thing. Some things need to be taken care of in-house.

What is the rift between them? Orton just pissed he lost his starting job, or is it something more personal?

Orton is slamming Tebow quite a bit lately. Slammed him for "trying so hard to win all the 50 yard sprints during camp", etc.

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 08:17 AM
**** him up, Tim

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 08:18 AM
Orton is slamming Tebow quite a bit lately. Slammed him for "trying so hard to win all the 50 yard sprints during camp", etc.

He's just exuding that Orton leadership

Hilarious!

Archer81
02-04-2011, 08:18 AM
Orton is slamming Tebow quite a bit lately. Slammed him for "trying so hard to win all the 50 yard sprints during camp", etc.


Two may enter, one may leave.

:Broncos:

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 08:19 AM
Orton is slamming Tebow quite a bit lately. Slammed him for "trying so hard to win all the 50 yard sprints during camp", etc.

Huh. I had not heard any of that. Is there an article or thread with any of this stuff?

BroncosMT
02-04-2011, 08:20 AM
On 87.7 the Ticket, Elway confirmed the team is aware that there is a rift between Tim Tebow and Kyle Orton and ensuring everyone on the team has a good working relationship will be a priority.

Not so sure I would have gone public with this.....might lower the trade value a little IMO

PRBronco
02-04-2011, 08:21 AM
Waiting for Josina's take. I have a feeling her source will confirm that the Broncos ride with Brandstater.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 08:21 AM
Orton is slamming Tebow quite a bit lately.

Proof?

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 08:22 AM
Word on the light rail is that Orton caught Tebow hitting on his wife.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2011, 08:23 AM
Orton is slamming Tebow quite a bit lately. Slammed him for "trying so hard to win all the 50 yard sprints during camp", etc.

Training camp is "recently"?

Any other examples you care to share?

chawknz
02-04-2011, 08:23 AM
Orton needs to be shipped out of town as soon as possible.

Jason in LA
02-04-2011, 08:24 AM
Why is this an issue? Orton is being shipped out... right? Tell that dude to kick rocks.

strafen
02-04-2011, 08:25 AM
Orton feels threaten by Tebow, and for good reason.
Tebow's performance on the field and athleticism show how much of a stiff Orton really is.
Tebow is showing what improvise means, what extending a play is, what to do when the pocket collapses, everybody is covered and it is 3rd down!

Tebow brings it. Orton sucks!

Archer81
02-04-2011, 08:26 AM
Word on the light rail is that Orton caught his wife hitting on Tebow

Fixed it.


:Broncos:

Ray Finkle
02-04-2011, 08:26 AM
Kyle is just jealous of Tim's hair.....or not having to comb over it....

boppool
02-04-2011, 08:26 AM
http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/kyle_orton_chicago_bears_4_drunk_pictures1.jpg and http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2009/01/06/PH2009010603561.jpg


http://cache.deadspin.com/sports/ortonraging1.jpg and http://christianpartner4life.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/tebow.jpg

I mean how could they not like each other???

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2011, 08:26 AM
Orton feels threaten by Tebow, and for good reason.
Tebow's performance on the field and athleticism show how much of a stiff Orton really is.
Tebow is showing what improvise means, what extending a play is, what to do when the pocket collapses, everybody is covered and it is 3rd down!

Tebow brings it. Orton sucks!

Strafen's a moron!

Archer81
02-04-2011, 08:28 AM
Strafen's a moron!


In other news,

Water is wet. The sky is blue. Dolphins eat fish. Film at 11.


:Broncos:

Broncoman13
02-04-2011, 08:31 AM
Training camp is "recently"?

Any other examples you care to share?

The comments were recent. I don't have a link b/c I heard it on "the drive" yesterday during my ride home. I guess Orton had issues with Tebow being the type of kid that always had the answer and was the first to raise his hand type, that is the comp the 104.3 crew drew.

I myself would like to hear all of the comments and the actual context of the questions/answers. But if Elway is confirming there may be a little rift, I have to believe Orton isn't sporting a Tebowner.

Jason in LA
02-04-2011, 08:32 AM
If it's true that he's calling Tebow out for trying hard during wind sprints, that's just too funny, and it shows that Orton is kind of weak minded. You know he's worried about losing his job. Oh wait, he already lost his job.

One thing I've always told my son is that in football practice, when they have to run sprints, always come in first. It gets you in better shape, makes you faster, and the coaches notice that. Same thing in track practice. Always come in first and when somebody says it's not a race, beat them by even more on the next run. That's pretty much what I did in track practice in high school, and the guys who complained that I was running too hard in practice watched me win the city title while they didn't win anything. And it got me into UCLA, while they didn't go anywhere.

So I like that Tebow is giving 100% on the sprints. It's going to make him that much better.

Cito Pelon
02-04-2011, 08:35 AM
Elway said he hasn't spoken with Orton at all, but "heard" there was something of an "adversarial" relationship btwn Orton and Tebow.

From what I heard there wasn't a bunch of follow up questions, whether he'd tried to call Orton, was there calls that were not returned by Orton, etc.

Elway kept reiterating they're going through the evaluation process at all positions. I guess he could have deflected the questions, but this honest approach is certainly juicy. Elway is not a dry well of quotes.

Mile High Shack
02-04-2011, 08:35 AM
Orton is probably mad b/c he knows he is out of luck being a starter - once again. I feel bad for him, he seems like a good teammate for the most part and tries hard, problem is, he just isn't talented enough to lead a team

I don't wish ill on Orton, he tried hard here in Denver

PRBronco
02-04-2011, 08:36 AM
Also I instantly dislike Orton now. But I feel like Tim wouldn't like me disliking someone just because of him, so now I'm conflicted. Thanks a lot new Broncos transparency :(

broncogary
02-04-2011, 08:36 AM
Orton wasn't seen practicing handball, was he?

strafen
02-04-2011, 08:42 AM
If it's true that he's calling Tebow out for trying hard during wind sprints, that's just too funny, and it shows that Orton is kind of weak minded. You know he's worried about losing his job. Oh wait, he already lost his job.

One thing I've always told my son is that in football practice, when they have to run sprints, always come in first. It gets you in better shape, makes you faster, and the coaches notice that. Same thing in track practice. Always come in first and when somebody says it's not a race, beat them by even more on the next run. That's pretty much what I did in track practice in high school, and the guys who complained that I was running too hard in practice watched me win the city title while they didn't win anything. And it got me into UCLA, while they didn't go anywhere.

So I like that Tebow is giving 100% on the sprints. It's going to make him that much better.Orton is a freakin' moron.
He's being exposed in more ways than one.
He'll be a back-up in the NFL.
Really. Who in the right mind, unless you're retarded- would think a team will try to build around Orton? LOL Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 08:43 AM
If it's true that he's calling Tebow out for trying hard during wind sprints, that's just too funny, and it shows that Orton is kind of weak minded. You know he's worried about losing his job. Oh wait, he already lost his job.

One thing I've always told my son is that in football practice, when they have to run sprints, always come in first. It gets you in better shape, makes you faster, and the coaches notice that. Same thing in track practice. Always come in first and when somebody says it's not a race, beat them by even more on the next run. That's pretty much what I did in track practice in high school, and the guys who complained that I was running too hard in practice watched me win the city title while they didn't win anything. And it got me into UCLA, while they didn't go anywhere.

So I like that Tebow is giving 100% on the sprints. It's going to make him that much better.

I sort of interpret that as more Tebow being like the kid in class who raises his hand and says, "Teacher! Teacher! You forgot to assign us homework!" That sort of thing would be annoying. Don't get me wrong, I want Tebow starting over Orton, but let's face it, Tebow is a bit over the top with his wholesome, perfect son schtick.

TDmvp
02-04-2011, 08:44 AM
Dave Grohl's retarded brother is tearing this team apart ...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_krshyu9N1h1qzvqjbo1_500.jpg

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 08:44 AM
Great, here we go again. Where's the jump to conclusions mat when we need it?

Broncoman13
02-04-2011, 08:46 AM
Orton is probably mad b/c he knows he is out of luck being a starter - once again. I feel bad for him, he seems like a good teammate for the most part and tries hard, problem is, he just isn't talented enough to lead a team

I don't wish ill on Orton, he tried hard here in Denver

This is exactly where I am at. I think Kyle Orton is very similar to a guy like Dilfer. You put a solid team around him and a 4th Quarter lead and he'll win some games. Put him down by 7 and count on him to bring you back and you're left with a 4-12 type team. Orton is just not athletic enough to be a stud QB...

I hope his comments toward Tebow aren't as harsh as what the news guys are reporting. Can't imagine how difficult that would be on all of the players if both Tebow and Orton are here next year.

Scott Hastings went on to say yesterday that he compares a guy like Tebow to Afflalo from the Nuggets. Above average athletically but gives more effort than anyone on the court which makes his value sky rocket. Tim Tebow will never be a Peyton Manning or Drew Brees type passer, but he could very well turn into a QB that wins games ugly. I've never been super impressed with Ben Rothlisberger as a pure passer, but he wins games and makes plays. I think that is what Tebow is... or will be.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 08:46 AM
Really. Who in the right mind, unless you're retarded- would think a team will try to build around Orton? LOL Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

Oh, I don't know. A team with a decent defense and running game, but nothing of any quality at QB. I can think of a few of those.

Archer81
02-04-2011, 08:47 AM
Tebow is a bit over the top with his wholesome, perfect son schtick.


I dont believe its a schtick. Thats him. If Orton can't handle it, maybe he should go. If Orton is upset about being shown up by a rookie/2nd year player, then he should not be a quarterback option for the denver broncos.


:Broncos:

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2011, 08:47 AM
This is like that scene in Rudy where Vince Vaughn corners Rudy in the parking lot and tells him to slow down.

Though I wonder if Orton ever screamed YOU SUCK ASS at Timmy

jhns
02-04-2011, 08:48 AM
Orton the team cancer. He is gone for sure now. You can suck and be a cancer...

If the comments about trying to hard are true, it would sure explain a lot.

Broncoman13
02-04-2011, 08:48 AM
Great, here we go again. Where's the jump to conclusions mat when we need it?

What conclusions are we jumping to? I didn't even post all of the Orton comments about Tebow until John Elway came out and confirmed there was a bit of an issue between the two.

It's not jumping to conclusions when the VP confirms there is an issue.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2011, 08:48 AM
I dont believe its a schtick. Thats him. If Orton can't handle it, maybe he should go. If Orton is upset about being shown up by a rookie/2nd year player, then he should not be a quarterback option for the denver broncos.


:Broncos:

Yeah, that would be some 24 hour/7 day a week schtick. I can see why some might find Tim's attitude annoying, but deal with it

strafen
02-04-2011, 08:49 AM
Oh, I don't know. A team with a decent defense and running game, but nothing of any quality at QB. I can think of a few of those.I see what you're saying. I'm saying no team will build AROUND Orton.
Sure, there are plenty teams that need a game manager and a guy that while he won't lose you games, he won't win you many out of his own will...

If a team is waiting for a good QB to get them over the hump, Orton is NOT the guy...

NFLBRONCO
02-04-2011, 08:50 AM
Orton's wife was talking in her sleep oh Tim oh Tim no wonder they hate each other.

Phantom
02-04-2011, 08:51 AM
Did he seriously admit that on the radio? Transparancy is not always a good thing. Some things need to be taken care of in-house.

What is the rift between them? Orton just pissed he lost his starting job, or is it something more personal?



"Love me some transparency ... Julian Assange"

Archer81
02-04-2011, 08:52 AM
Orton's wife said, oh Tim instead of oh Kyle during sex one night.


How akward would that be if it was Orton that said "Oh Tim"...


:Broncos:

strafen
02-04-2011, 08:53 AM
Orton the team cancer. He is gone for sure now. You can suck and be a cancer...

If the comments about trying to hard are true, it would sure explain a lot.
Rich Eisen would outrun Orton in the 40's

Shoemaker
02-04-2011, 08:53 AM
John really needs to take a PR class.

This is the kind of stuff you don't say about a guy you're looking to trade.

Jesterhole
02-04-2011, 08:55 AM
Good bye Orton. Take your 11-17 record and your McDaniels stink with you when you get traded...

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2011, 08:55 AM
John really needs to take a PR class.

This is the kind of stuff you don't say about a guy you're looking to trade.

i sincerely doubt this will do anything to his perceived trade value.

Shoemaker
02-04-2011, 08:55 AM
Rich Eisen would outrun Orton in the 40's

Can I ask what Orton has done to make you hate him so much? Aside from be one of the best players on our team the past two years?

I mean, he's clearly guilty of the crime of "Not Being Jay Cutler," so that explains jhns' animosity. Is that it for you too?

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 08:56 AM
Yeah, that would be some 24 hour/7 day a week schtick. I can see why some might find Tim's attitude annoying, but deal with it

Sure, I'm just saying...Tebow is the kid in class who is always waving his hand furiously in the air before the teacher even finishes asking her question. That kid was annoying. But, yeah, he should deal with it and leave out the snarky comments. That won't help him.

Rohirrim
02-04-2011, 08:56 AM
I sort of interpret that as more Tebow being like the kid in class who raises his hand and says, "Teacher! Teacher! You forgot to assign us homework!" That sort of thing would be annoying. Don't get me wrong, I want Tebow starting over Orton, but let's face it, Tebow is a bit over the top with his wholesome, perfect son schtick.

He reminds me of Buzz Lightyear (before Buzz realizes he's a toy).

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 08:57 AM
Can I ask what Orton has done to make you hate him so much? Aside from be one of the best players on our team the past two years?

I mean, he's clearly guilty of the crime of "Not Being Jay Cutler," so that explains jhns' animosity. Is that it for you too?

The most high profile and highest impact player on a 3-10 squad.

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 08:58 AM
Sure, I'm just saying...I have absolutely no idea what he's really like, but if I made a wild assumption Id think Tebow is the kid in class who is always waving his hand furiously in the air before the teacher even finishes asking her question. That kid was annoying. But, yeah, he should deal with it and leave out the snarky comments. That won't help him.

Fixed that for you.

Archer81
02-04-2011, 08:58 AM
Can I ask what Orton has done to make you hate him so much? Aside from be one of the best players on our team the past two years?

I mean, he's clearly guilty of the crime of "Not Being Jay Cutler," so that explains jhns' animosity. Is that it for you too?


He is McDaniel's guy.

But I am sure dragster will reply with "he iz da sux"


:Broncos:

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 08:59 AM
where are all the people that voted "Elway is doing a great job"

SHUT YOUR GODDAMN MOUTH JOHN!

jesus christ

Steve Prefontaine
02-04-2011, 09:01 AM
Good bye Orton. Take your 11-17 record and your McDaniels stink with you when you get traded...

Remember when Orton was labeled a winner?

Now Orton is the new Cutler.

Archer81
02-04-2011, 09:01 AM
Sure, I'm just saying...Tebow is the kid in class who is always waving his hand furiously in the air before the teacher even finishes asking her question. That kid was annoying. But, yeah, he should deal with it and leave out the snarky comments. That won't help him.


Tebow strikes me as the guy who doesnt ask for more homework, but gets it done and blows the grading curve. He is probably also the guy that would actually stop to help you with a flat tire or be the DD if you needed it.

A good guy.

Orton is not a bad guy, either. But Tebow is a larger part of the team's future than Orton will be. The 3 games Tebow demonstrated that the fans get excited when he plays, that he makes plays, and every positive Orton would bring Tim brings and excels.

Just how it is.

:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 09:01 AM
What conclusions are we jumping to?


Read everyone's posts. The anger and hatred spewing out against Orton when we have heard nothing from Orton himself. Not a word.

People are taking a single quote from John, where John himself is drawing conclusions based on things that not even he witnessed, and all of a sudden they are concluding that Orton has said and done all sorts of things and must be to blame for something.

Show me one negative quote from Orton about Tebow since Tebow took over.

I didn't even post all of the Orton comments about Tebow until John Elway came out and confirmed there was a bit of an issue between the two.

What comments? I still have yet to actually see any.

Shoemaker
02-04-2011, 09:02 AM
The most high profile and highest impact player on a 3-10 squad.

A terrible record =! a team of only terrible players.

And it still doesn't justify hating Orton or calling him a POS (not that I think you were necessarily advocating strafen calling him that).

It seems like people are completely unable to separate their hatred of McDaniels, which is certainly justifiable, with their hatred of any player McDaniels selected to be on this team. I don't understand what Orton has done during his time as the Broncos QB that would make a fan despise him.

TDmvp
02-04-2011, 09:02 AM
Can I ask what Orton has done to make you hate him so much? Aside from be one of the best players on our team the past two years?

I mean, he's clearly guilty of the crime of "Not Being Jay Cutler," so that explains jhns' animosity. Is that it for you too?




Stuff like the falling down while he scrambles at hover round speed , having a average skill set and being the one of the most unclutch starting Qbs in the league...

Dude tries like hell , and respect his effort and heart like when he came back in with a bad ankle for Simms , but he will never be a Qb I could see a team winning a Super Bowl with ... And I know I know Dilfer sucked but that's one out of a crap load.

Smiling Assassin27
02-04-2011, 09:04 AM
On 87.7 the Ticket, Elway confirmed the team is aware that there is a rift between Tim Tebow and Kyle Orton and ensuring everyone on the team has a good working relationship will be a priority.

I don't see Tebow having the personality to foster a rift with any teammate. Orton, I can see and the motive is definitely there. Regardless, I just wonder if Elway would've appreciated his owner or GM going public with a rift he had with, say, kubes or TD.

DrFate
02-04-2011, 09:04 AM
Go ahead and move Orton and get this settled

The whole 'we'll get a 2nd!' is nothing more than Mane-colored glasses, anyway. Get a pick, pretty much any pick and move on.

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 09:05 AM
A terrible record =! a team of only terrible players.

And it still doesn't justify hating Orton or calling him a POS (not that I think you were necessarily advocating strafen calling him that).

It seems like people are completely unable to separate their hatred of McDaniels, which is certainly justifiable, with their hatred of any player McDaniels selected to be on this team. I don't understand what Orton has done during his time as the Broncos QB that would make a fan despise him.

I agree with the bolded statement, but it clearly shows the front man will take the heat.

Here's where I dislike Orton, as I've highlighted since the famous Absolute Embarrassing thread from Week 1 (and nothing changed since then with Kyle)

Saw this on the Fat Mans blog:

I'll be doing a Playbook series on this later in the offseason (in fact, I may review every single one of Orton's 3rd-down throws in 2010, complete with diagrams), but despite what Elway says, Orton is not a better quarterback than Tebow. The results do not lie. Sure, you can point to the fact that Orton has better footwork or more experience reading defenses, but Orton made some bad decisions on 3rd down this year. Preposterous, you say? It's really not. I hate to bring these stats to light (again, since they will be part of the article), but Kyle Orton is a 3rd-down waiting for a launch that never appears. Here's three stats that should scare the hell out of you if you want to see Kyle Orton under center next year:


In 2010, Orton ranked 13th in the AFC in 1st-down completion percentage on 3rd down when having 3 yards or fewer to gain. He ranked 28th in the entire NFL.
In 2010, Orton ranked 11th in the AFC in 1st-down completion percentage on 3rd down with 3 to 7 yards to gain. He ranked 19th in the entire NFL.
In 2010, Orton ranked 14th in the AFC in 1st-down completion percentage on 3rd and longer than 7 yards. He ranked 28th in the entire NFL.

That is why he's disliked.

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 09:05 AM
Fixed that for you.

It's pretty clear that my sumation is correct. Of course, Tebow's groupies won't allow to make even the slightest critical comment about their pin-up idol. I like Tim and am excited about him being our QB, but he ain't perfect, and I (and a lot of other people) find his Ward Cleaver routine annoying at times. Sue me.

Shoemaker
02-04-2011, 09:06 AM
Stuff like the falling down while he scrambles at hover round speed , having a average skill set and being the one of the most unclutch starting Qbs in the league...

Dude tries like hell , and respect his effort and heart like when he came back in with a bad ankle for Simms , but he will never be a Qb I could see a team winning a Super Bowl with ... And I know I know Dilfer sucked but that's one out of a crap load.

I can understand that perspective, though I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

I'm not saying every Broncos fan needs to want Orton to be our starting QB; while I'm more pro-Orton than most, Tebow still makes a very compelling case.

But he certainly doesn't deserve half of the vehemence he gets on here. You can dislike aspects of his skillset, but he's not a terrible QB, and he's played his heart out the entire time he's been here even though a large portion of the fans treated him like **** from Day 1.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 09:06 AM
Go ahead and move Orton and get this settled

The whole 'we'll get a 2nd!' is nothing more than Mane-colored glasses, anyway. Get a pick, pretty much any pick and move on.

what if we get a 5th....Tebow gets injured and we're subjected to Quinn + Fox

Archer81
02-04-2011, 09:07 AM
It's pretty clear that my sumation is correct. Of course, Tebow's groupies won't allow to make even the slightest critical comment about their pin-up idol. I like Tim and am excited about him being our QB, but he ain't perfect, and I (and a lot of other people) find his Ward Cleaver routine annoying at times. Sue me.


Its only a routine if he is not that way. It would be incredibly hard to pretend to be a goody goody with the amount of media coverage Tim gets. He is a good dude. Sorry if that bugs you.


:Broncos:

Smiling Assassin27
02-04-2011, 09:08 AM
It's pretty clear that my sumation is correct.

LOL

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 09:08 AM
It's pretty clear that my sumation is correct. Of course, Tebow's groupies won't allow to make even the slightest critical comment about their pin-up idol. I like Tim and am excited about him being our QB, but he ain't perfect, and I (and a lot of other people) find his Ward Cleaver routine annoying at times. Sue me.

Link.

DrFate
02-04-2011, 09:10 AM
what if we get a 5th....Tebow gets injured and we're subjected to Quinn + Fox

Then it would probably look a whole lot like Clausen + Fox

:)

I don't know if Tebow is going to suceed at a high level in this league, I can only hope. That said, I don't think Orton is anything more than a distraction at this point.

Is Orton the backup? Consider the scenario - the backup QB took the Oline to Vegas after the finale. Does that make sense? Is that the way to build team unity?

I'm simply a firm believer that you have a starting QB, and you have everybody else. Orton is a massive distraction wating to happen.

And the entire 'building up his trade value' is little more than internet board chatter. Everybody in the league knows who Orton is and how much he is worth. Young is on the market, Kolb is likely on the market, there will be some QBs with experience out there. If you get a 4th for Orton, take it and run.

Shoemaker
02-04-2011, 09:10 AM
I agree with the bolded statement, but it clearly shows the front man will take the heat.

Here's where I dislike Orton, as I've highlighted since the famous Absolute Embarrassing thread from Week 1 (and nothing changed since then with Kyle)



That is why he's disliked.

Right, and that's perfectly fine in my eyes. Orton has obvious flaws in his game which its justifiable to dislike, and its perfectly understandable that Broncos fans could prefer Tebow be the starting QB.

But his poor showings on third down and in the 4th quarter don't justify the level of hatred some on this board, like strafen and jhns, show towards him. Your dislike of Orton is rational. I was questioning theirs because it is irrational.

jhns
02-04-2011, 09:11 AM
Read everyone's posts. The anger and hatred spewing out against Orton when we have heard nothing from Orton himself. Not a word.

People are taking a single quote from John, where John himself is drawing conclusions based on things that not even he witnessed, and all of a sudden they are concluding that Orton has said and done all sorts of things and must be to blame for something.

Show me one negative quote from Orton about Tebow since Tebow took over.



What comments? I still have yet to actually see any.

Didn't you deny doing exactly what you are currently doing in a thread yesterday?

See, my label was correct. You are an Orton fanboy. You defend him at all costs. You are more passionate about Orton arguments than any other subject regarding this team. I didn't just make this stuff up. Look at your post history.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 09:14 AM
I don't see Tebow having the personality to foster a rift with any teammate. Orton, I can see

This is the stuff that mystifies me. What has Orton ever done to make you think he has the personality to foster a rift with any teammate? Everyone that has ever said anything about him loves the freaking guy and his personality.

Shoemaker
02-04-2011, 09:14 AM
Didn't you deny doing exactly what you are currently doing in a thread yesterday?

See, my label was correct. You are an Orton fanboy. You defend him at all costs. You are more passionate about Orton arguments than any other subject regarding this team. I didn't just make this stuff up. Look at your post history.

How is this possibly relevant to what Orton said or didn't say about Tebow? Why are you calling out Beantown Bronco for something he said during an argument in a completely unrelated thread? That's troll behavior, and you profess not to be a troll.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 09:14 AM
Didn't you deny doing exactly what you are currently doing in a thread yesterday?

See, my label was correct. You are an Orton fanboy. You defend him at all costs. You are more passionate about Orton arguments than any other subject regarding this team. I didn't just make this stuff up. Look at your post history.

what a loser...he likes a player on our team

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 09:15 AM
Didn't you deny doing exactly what you are currently doing in a thread yesterday?


Nope. I said from yesterday, dating back at least a month, I didn't say one thing about Orton. And that statement is still true.

fdf
02-04-2011, 09:18 AM
Sure, I'm just saying...Tebow is the kid in class who is always waving his hand furiously in the air before the teacher even finishes asking her question. That kid was annoying. But, yeah, he should deal with it and leave out the snarky comments. That won't help him.

We had guys like that in law school. The one's I still know are making about $700,000 to a million dollars a year today.

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 09:22 AM
We had guys like that in law school. The one's I still know are making about $700,000 to a million dollars a year today.

I don't doubt it. I guess my point is there are less ostentatious ways of being a "go-getter" without rubbing everyone's face in it.

Irish Stout
02-04-2011, 09:23 AM
where are all the people that voted "Elway is doing a great job"

SHUT YOUR GODDAMN MOUTH JOHN!

jesus christ

You clearly didn't hear the interview and Kaylore didn't quite portrait it accurately in the OP. Elway was questioned by Vic and Gary what was up with Tebow and Orton clearly not liking each other - saying it was very obvious last time they were in the locker room for interviews with the two. Elway stated that he had heard that as well and that it was important to get the right relationship back for both of these QBs. He further aknowledged that he hasn't really been around either of them since coming on with the organization, but that they both are good guys with the right QB stuff.

John is really open and honest, but I don't think he is being as transparent as a lot of people think.

Its amazing how up and arms he has a lot of people right now. Personally I enjoy at least the discourse the new regime is willing to continually have about the team and the turmoils... its more than we have ever gotten out of the Broncos during any offseason indicating what exactly was going on. Its a lot better than having Woody Paige throwing around speculation while thinking he is the James Joyce of sports writing.

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 09:23 AM
I don't doubt it. I guess my point is there are less ostentatious ways of being a "go-getter" without rubbing everyone's face in it.

Which you assume he's doing without ANY actual indicators?

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 09:26 AM
You clearly didn't hear the interview and Kaylore didn't quite portrait it accurately in the OP. Elway was questioned by Vic and Gary what was up with Tebow and Orton clearly not liking each other - saying it was very obvious last time they were in the locker room for interviews with the two. Elway stated that he had heard that as well and that it was important to get the right relationship back for both of these QBs. He further aknowledged that he hasn't really been around either of them since coming on with the organization, but that they both are good guys with the right QB stuff.

John is really open and honest, but I don't think he is being as transparent as a lot of people think.

Its amazing how up and arms he has a lot of people right now. Personally I enjoy at least the discourse the new regime is willing to continually have about the team and the turmoils... its more than we have ever gotten out of the Broncos during any offseason indicating what exactly was going on. Its a lot better than having Woody Paige throwing around speculation while thinking he is the James Joyce of sports writing.

ok....thanks for that

ant1999e
02-04-2011, 09:26 AM
where are all the people that voted "Elway is doing a great job"

SHUT YOUR GODDAMN MOUTH JOHN!

jesus christ

This!!!

jhns
02-04-2011, 09:27 AM
How is this possibly relevant to what Orton said or didn't say about Tebow? Why are you calling out Beantown Bronco for something he said during an argument in a completely unrelated thread? That's troll behavior, and you profess not to be a troll.

Who are you and why are you not able to make sense?

AlienBronco
02-04-2011, 09:27 AM
So, we are back to square one(pre Plummer era) with a QB Controversy a veteran QB vs the rookie QB.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 09:28 AM
I sort of interpret that as more Tebow being like the kid in class who raises his hand and says, "Teacher! Teacher! You forgot to assign us homework!" That sort of thing would be annoying. Don't get me wrong, I want Tebow starting over Orton, but let's face it, Tebow is a bit over the top with his wholesome, perfect son schtick.

Tebow is the perfect soldier.. that's Tebow's style.. to give everything all the time. People may interpret this as showboating or brown nosing.. but with Tebow it's just legitimately how hard he works and approaches things.

Orton may not like it.. but if it's successful for Tebow and his teams he should learn from it. What has Orton accomplished in his career?

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 09:28 AM
Which you assume he's doing without ANY actual indicators?

There is plenty to indicate that. Watch the Tebow documentary for starters. It's all there in the way he carries himself. There's much more to indicate that than there is that Orton is some kind of team cancer, which a lot of folks in this thread seem to be buying.

Jesus, this is pretty mild criticism...I'm glad he works hard and am excited about his future as our QB. You acolytes won't countenance the slightest bit of criticism. Like he's an infallible deity.

jhns
02-04-2011, 09:29 AM
Nope. I said from yesterday, dating back at least a month, I didn't say one thing about Orton. And that statement is still true.

So you just made a statement that didn't contradict anything I said... Interesting.

jhns
02-04-2011, 09:30 AM
what a loser...he likes a player on our team

Then why deny it? That is the part that doesn't make sense.

Archer81
02-04-2011, 09:30 AM
There is plenty to indicate that. Watch the Tebow documentary for starters. It's all there in the way he carries himself. There's much more to indicate that than there is that Orton is some kind of team cancer, which a lot of folks in this thread seem to be buying.

Jesus, this is pretty mild criticism...I'm glad he works hard and am excited about his future as our QB. You acolytes won't countenance the slightest bit of criticism. Like he's an infallible deity.


So to you...a guy who is highly competitive ALL the time and wants to do well is something to criticize?

:Broncos:

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 09:32 AM
There is plenty to indicate that. Watch the Tebow documentary for starters. It's all there in the way he carries himself. There's much more to indicate that than there is that Orton is some kind of team cancer, which a lot of folks in this thread seem to be buying.

Jesus, this is pretty mild criticism...I'm glad he works hard and am excited about his future as our QB. You acolytes won't countenance the slightest bit of criticism. Like he's an infallible deity.

"Acolytes"? So, you make up a baseless statement without citing ANY specific examples, and when you're called out on it, it's because we're "acolytes" and view him as an "infallible deity"?

How about we're calling you out on it because you're full of ****.

He has plenty of faults and a lot to work on. Fortunately, his drive and effort are so high, refining these areas is a very realistic goal.

Then we have people like you who are literally making **** up about him. Now he's a kiss ass "go getter" because he was trying hard in training camp? STOP THE ****ING PRESSES! A ROOKIE WAS TRYING HARD IN TRAINING CAMP!

And your vague claims of having supporting evidence hold no water. I'm still waiting on ONE SINGLE specific example... which you've certainly been unable to provide.

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 09:32 AM
So to you...a guy who is highly competitive ALL the time and wants to do well is something to criticize?

:Broncos:

You can be "highly competive ALL the time" without being showy about it.

spdirty
02-04-2011, 09:33 AM
Man, I really hope this doesn't turn into an Ephraim Salaam-George Foster type of rift. Could get ugly fast. :(

DrFate
02-04-2011, 09:33 AM
So to you...a guy who is highly competitive ALL the time and wants to do well is something to criticize?

:Broncos:

The attitude rubs some people the wrong way. I've wondered if the 'rah rah' attitude would 'wear thin' on cynical NFL vets over time, myself.

(I'm not disparaging Tebow's attitude)

You can't please everyone, regardless. If they cured cancer tomorrow you'd have a list of people lining up to oppose it.

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 09:34 AM
You can be "highly competive ALL the time" without being showy about it.

I say again...

Link?

At least some anecdotal personal evidence?

Really, I'm trying to help you now.

ANYTHING?

maven
02-04-2011, 09:34 AM
Orton is a competitor. I can't imagine him being happy with the drafting of Tebow, only getting a 1 year extension, and losing his job at the end of the season. I do not see these two sticking around next season. One will go.

Archer81
02-04-2011, 09:35 AM
You can be "highly competive ALL the time" without being showy about it.


So because he finishes windsprints in TC first that is being showy? That is the most ridiculous argument against a player I have ever heard. If Denver had 53 players who wanted to be "showy" like that, we would be talking about how Denver is going to kill Greenbay on Sunday.


:Broncos:

Broncoman13
02-04-2011, 09:36 AM
"Acolytes"? So, you make up a baseless statement without citing ANY specific examples, and when you're called out on it, it's because we're "acolytes" and view him as an "infallible deity"?

How about we're calling you out on it because you're full of ****.

He has plenty of faults and a lot to work on. Fortunately, his drive and effort are so high, refining these areas is a very realistic goal.

Then we have people like you who are literally making **** up about him. Now he's a kiss ass "go getter" because he was trying hard in training camp? STOP THE ****ING PRESSES! A ROOKIE WAS TRYING HARD IN TRAINING CAMP!

And your vague claims of having supporting evidence hold no water. I'm still waiting on ONE SINGLE specific example... which you've certainly been unable to provide.

LMAO... somebody got pwned!!!

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 09:37 AM
You can't please everyone, regardless. If they cured cancer tomorrow you'd have a list of people lining up to oppose it.

To be fair, I've seen what the cancer cure can result in:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X9nUHl0tMOU?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X9nUHl0tMOU?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Broncoman13
02-04-2011, 09:37 AM
I say again...

Link?

At least some anecdotal personal evidence?

Really, I'm trying to help you now.

ANYTHING?


Sorry Rev, you're killing him so bad I'm gonna have to cheer for him to make a comeback. Why you picking on the 'slow ones' today?

Archer81
02-04-2011, 09:38 AM
The attitude rubs some people the wrong way. I've wondered if the 'rah rah' attitude would 'wear thin' on cynical NFL vets over time, myself.

(I'm not disparaging Tebow's attitude)

You can't please everyone, regardless. If they cured cancer tomorrow you'd have a list of people lining up to oppose it.


Tebow is that way. Its a criticism that is unwarranted. That's his personality. Criticizing it as a schtick or routine is ridiculous.

:Broncos:

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 09:38 AM
Sorry Rev, you're killing him so bad I'm gonna have to cheer for him to make a comeback. Why you picking on the 'slow ones' today?

Waiting for my food to digest before I hit the gym.

Irish Stout
02-04-2011, 09:40 AM
Orton is a competitor. I can't imagine him being happy with the drafting of Tebow, only getting a 1 year extension, and losing his job at the end of the season. I do not see these two sticking around next season. One will go.

But wasn't that the most likely road from the get go when McDaniels drafted Tebow? Is anyone really suprised NOW that Orton is not happy about Tebow? It clearly started with the draft, then with reports about Orton and Brady laughing at Tebow at training camp, then Orton not being happy at all about not playing the last three games - and publicly saying so. Then you've got guys who get to go into the locker rooms after every game who can see Orton and Tebow not looking at each other or talking to each other...

NOBODY SHOULD BE SHOCKED ABOUT THIS NOW!

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 09:43 AM
So because he finishes windsprints in TC first that is being showy? That is the most ridiculous argument against a player I have ever heard. If Denver had 53 players who wanted to be "showy" like that, we would be talking about how Denver is going to kill Greenbay on Sunday.


:Broncos:

I didn't make an argument against a player. I simply find his "in your face" intense, goody-two-shoes style AT TIMES annoying. I think you can work hard and give a maximum effort with being over the top about it. If you think he's perfect, fine.

And Rev, I'm sorrying I gave very mild criticism of your boyfriend, but we both know that anything I say to you you'll respond with "lolz your stoopid he's just working hard!!!11!!" My interpretation is my interpretation. It's not even based on one specific thing, it's just an overall impression. Sue me.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 09:44 AM
I don't see Tebow having the personality to foster a rift with any teammate. Orton, I can see and the motive is definitely there. Regardless, I just wonder if Elway would've appreciated his owner or GM going public with a rift he had with, say, kubes or TD.

I used to think this too. Tebow seems like he would be friendly to a fault.. but his ex offensive coordinator -- Dan Mullen -- made a comment one time about how Tebow doesn't expect everyone to like him but he said something about how he will demand you respect him. The way I took this is that if someone was disrespecting him, teammate or whoever, he would let them know that's not how it's going down. Orton may have crossed that line unwittingly...

One thing people have to understand about Tebow is that this guy is like a psychotic competitor.. When Tebow was a backup to Leak at Florida he used to YELL at Urban Meyer to let him play to win the game..

This is speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if that same competitive drive even drove Tebow to somehow try to put pressure on Orton when he wasn't doing everything he could to win games.

enjolras
02-04-2011, 09:46 AM
As an atheist and a big fan of social drinking in general... I still want Tebow as my Quarterback. I don't really care about his social stances, his charity work, or his moonlighting as a mohel.... I simply think he gives us the best chance to win football games.

Just watch what Rothlesberger does on Sunday. Tebow very much has the chance to be in a very similar mold to him.

DrFate
02-04-2011, 09:46 AM
Tebow is that way. Its a criticism that is unwarranted. That's his personality. Criticizing it as a schtick or routine is ridiculous.

:Broncos:

Oh, I don't disagree. My only concern - that 'rah rah' stuff he did after FLA lost that game, the one they immortalized with the plaque: that 'inspires' a 20 year old.

Does it do the same to the 15 year vet with the succubus ex-wife, 5 kids by other women, bad knees, and a failing car business? Does it play the same way to an older audience?

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 09:47 AM
There is plenty to indicate that. Watch the Tebow documentary for starters. It's all there in the way he carries himself. There's much more to indicate that than there is that Orton is some kind of team cancer, which a lot of folks in this thread seem to be buying.

Jesus, this is pretty mild criticism...I'm glad he works hard and am excited about his future as our QB. You acolytes won't countenance the slightest bit of criticism. Like he's an infallible deity.

Actually.. from what I heard McD drafted Tebow because Orton wasn't doing everything he could as a leader and competitor to prepare to win games. Is he Terrell Owens? No.. but his behavior could be called cancerous in that he is a bad leader. Especially when he doesn't even have elite talent.

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 09:48 AM
I didn't make an argument against a player. I simply find his "in your face" intense, goody-two-shoes style AT TIMES annoying. I think you can work hard and give a maximum effort with being over the top about it. If you think he's perfect, fine.

And Rev, I'm sorrying I gave very mild criticism of your boyfriend, but we both know that anything I say to you you'll respond with "lolz your stoopid he's just working hard!!!11!!" My interpretation is my interpretation. It's not even based on one specific thing, it's just an overall impression. Sue me.

First of all, show me in this discussion where I personally attacked you? Or are you making up more baseless claims?

Secondly, if this is just your "interpretation" not even based on anything as you proceed to describe it, why did you say this a few minutes ago:

It's pretty clear that my sumation is correct. Of course, Tebow's groupies won't allow to make even the slightest critical comment about their pin-up idol. I like Tim and am excited about him being our QB, but he ain't perfect, and I (and a lot of other people) find his Ward Cleaver routine annoying at times. Sue me.

There is plenty to indicate that. Watch the Tebow documentary for starters. It's all there in the way he carries himself. There's much more to indicate that than there is that Orton is some kind of team cancer, which a lot of folks in this thread seem to be buying.

Jesus, this is pretty mild criticism...I'm glad he works hard and am excited about his future as our QB. You acolytes won't countenance the slightest bit of criticism. Like he's an infallible deity.

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 09:50 AM
Sorry Rev, you're killing him so bad I'm gonna have to cheer for him to make a comeback. Why you picking on the 'slow ones' today?

He's killing me how? That's my impression of Tebow. It's valid, and it's shared by a lot of people. It's not based on any one thing, but a lot of little things picked up in interviews, documentary pieces, etc. It's not even that big of a criticism. If you don't think he's Mr. Perfect, you're a hater. Whatever.

Cito Pelon
02-04-2011, 09:50 AM
What interests me is Elway said he hasn't even spoken with Orton yet, but goes on his weekly Friday radio show and says he "heard there was an adversarial relationship between Orton and Tebow". Is there a method to his madness?

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 09:51 AM
Actually.. from what I heard McD drafted Tebow because Orton wasn't doing everything he could as a leader and competitor to prepare to win games.

This is completely made up and it's getting ridiculous. McD is ON RECORD as praising Orton's work ethic. Hell, it's again ON RECORD that he often drove Orton to and from practices and games. They were joined at the hip and McD loved him.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 09:53 AM
Oh, I don't disagree. My only concern - that 'rah rah' stuff he did after FLA lost that game, the one they immortalized with the plaque: that 'inspires' a 20 year old.

Does it do the same to the 15 year vet with the succubus ex-wife, 5 kids by other women, bad knees, and a failing car business? Does it play the same way to an older audience?

I think when you look at the total package it does. Tebow gives his all all the time.. his highschool coach said he had a pied piper effect. I think Tebow's psychotic desire to win and compete -- all the time - rubs off on his team. And a speech like that is just part of it. I really think Tebow's passion for the game spread all through college football when he was there. He raised the level all across the country. I see the same thing happening in the NFL with other Qbs trying to emulate him really before he even came in the NFL.

People may think I am exaggerating.. but Tebow is a freak.. People see this mild mannered guy outside of the field but on the field he's a savage.. and relentless worker. Urban Meyer said Tebow had the same kind of effect on his team as a Michael Jordan.. and from what I have seen that is no exaggeration.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 09:55 AM
This is completely made up and it's getting ridiculous. McD is ON RECORD as praising Orton's work ethic. Hell, it's again ON RECORD that he often drove Orton to and from practices and games. They were joined at the hip and McD loved him.

We know Orton was mocking Tebow for his preparation.. so why is this such a stretch?

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 09:55 AM
I really think Tebow's passion for the game spread all through college football when he was there. He raised the level all across the country. I see the same thing happening in the NFL with other Qbs trying to emulate him really before he even came in the NFL.

I haven't laughed this hard in a long, long time. Thanks for that.

BigPlayShay
02-04-2011, 09:56 AM
Please listen to the interview. His comments are not anywhere close to what people are making them out to be:

Vic: "One of the reasons people assumed Kyle Orton will be gone is, the relationship somewhat soured between Tim Tebow and Kyle Orton, especially late in the season. Is that something that can be repaired John?"

John: "And that I don't know, ya know that is something that I think obviously I've heard a little bit about that also, but until I talk to both of them about that relationship I don't know exactly what that is. But I think that is something that we have to look at to make sure they can co-exist and if Kyle were to come back it is important to have that kind of working relationship at every position"


http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=738&f=69019

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 09:57 AM
We know Orton was mocking Tebow for his preparation

How do we know this?

I can provide quotes from McD to prove that Orton was putting in the work, etc. Give me something, anything in terms of a quote from McD to indicate he wasn't. Please.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 09:59 AM
How do we know this?

I can provide quotes from McD to prove that Orton was putting in the work, etc. Give me something, anything in terms of a quote from McD to indicate he wasn't. Please.

We have quotes from others.. why will you only accept a quote from McD? Of course people in the organization aren't going to come out and directly say something like that..

Popps
02-04-2011, 10:00 AM
Please listen to the interview. His comments are not anywhere close to what people are making them out to be:

Vic: "One of the reasons people assumed Kyle Orton will be gone is, the relationship somewhat soured between Tim Tebow and Kyle Orton, especially late in the season. Is that something that can be repaired John?"

John: "And that I don't know, ya know that is something that I think obviously I've heard a little bit about that also, but until I talk to both of them about that relationship I don't know exactly what that is. But I think that is something that we have to look at to make sure they can co-exist and if Kyle were to come back it is important to have that kind of working relationship at every position"


http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=738&f=69019



Wow, now there's a shocker.

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 10:02 AM
I think when you look at the total package it does. Tebow gives his all all the time.. his highschool coach said he had a pied piper effect. I think Tebow's psychotic desire to win and compete -- all the time - rubs off on his team. And a speech like that is just part of it. I really think Tebow's passion for the game spread all through college football when he was there. He raised the level all across the country. I see the same thing happening in the NFL with other Qbs trying to emulate him really before he even came in the NFL.

People may think I am exaggerating.. but Tebow is a freak.. People see this mild mannered guy outside of the field but on the field he's a savage.. and relentless worker. Urban Meyer said Tebow had the same kind of effect on his team as a Michael Jordan.. and from what I have seen that is no exaggeration.

Uhh

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:02 AM
I haven't laughed this hard in a long, long time. Thanks for that.

It's true.. Ben Roethlisberger's coach made the same observation IN a game. While Tebow was still in college..

They don't say Tebow revolutionized the QB position in college for no reason. Even Cutler was trying to do a Tebow impersonation in the post season.. jump pass and all...

Cito Pelon
02-04-2011, 10:05 AM
I don't doubt it. I guess my point is there are less ostentatious ways of being a "go-getter" without rubbing everyone's face in it.

What? This is the NFL, players that are lesser athletes get their noses rubbed in the dirt constantly, either figuratively or literally.

bronclvr
02-04-2011, 10:07 AM
John: "And that I don't know, ya know that is something that I think obviously I've heard a little bit about that also, but until I talk to both of them about that relationship I don't know exactly what that is. But I think that is something that we have to look at to make sure they can co-exist and if Kyle were to come back it is important to have that kind of working relationship at every position"


Wow!

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:08 AM
Wow!

I noticed the same thing. haha I hope that was a "tell".

strafen
02-04-2011, 10:11 AM
Can I ask what Orton has done to make you hate him so much? Aside from be one of the best players on our team the past two years?

I mean, he's clearly guilty of the crime of "Not Being Jay Cutler," so that explains jhns' animosity. Is that it for you too?
Hate? Hate? Really?
About you taking a hard look and realize how bad this guy really is
Inflated numbers chiucking the ball to Lloyd trying to win the games we were totally out of
What you want me to say that he's a great QB when he really sucks at it?
Come on!

Really. Didn't you see the guy play at all??!!!
How can you dispute what I'm saying if you really did?

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:11 AM
We have quotes from others.. why will you only accept a quote from McD? ..

Ummm, maybe because YOU SAID MCD SAID SOMETHING HE DIDN'T SAY!!!!!!

So I'm not supposed to disprove something by citing quotes from the VERY source you are using in your argument. Unreal.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 10:12 AM
Hate? Hate? Really?
About you taking a hard look and realize how bad this guy really is
Inflated numbers chiucking the ball to Lloyd trying to win the games we were totally out of
What you want me to say that he's a great QB when he really sucks at it?
Come on!

Really. Didn't you see the guy play at all??!!!
How can you dispute what I'm saying if you really did?

He's better than at least a third of the starting QBs in the league

Boobs McGee
02-04-2011, 10:13 AM
Please listen to the interview. His comments are not anywhere close to what people are making them out to be:

Vic: "One of the reasons people assumed Kyle Orton will be gone is, the relationship somewhat soured between Tim Tebow and Kyle Orton, especially late in the season. Is that something that can be repaired John?"

John: "And that I don't know, ya know that is something that I think obviously I've heard a little bit about that also, but until I talk to both of them about that relationship I don't know exactly what that is. But I think that is something that we have to look at to make sure they can co-exist and if Kyle were to come back it is important to have that kind of working relationship at every position"


http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=738&f=69019



lol. SO basically, this whole thread is based on conjecture. Even the thread title is completely off base. Elway in NO WAY confirmed there was a rift, in fact he stated the obvious. "I've heard a little bit abou that also, but until I talk to both of them about that relationship I don't know exactly what that is"



hmmm...

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:13 AM
It's true.. Ben Roethlisberger's coach made the same observation IN a game. While Tebow was still in college..

Proof.

They don't say Tebow revolutionized the QB position in college for no reason.

Every year, someone claims somebody "revolutionized" the "x" position.

Even Cutler was trying to do a Tebow impersonation in the post season.. jump pass and all...

Daunte Culpepper was running that play before Tebow was even in high school.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:17 AM
Ummm, maybe because YOU SAID MCD SAID SOMETHING HE DIDN'T SAY!!!!!!

So I'm not supposed to disprove something by citing quotes from the VERY source you are using in your argument. Unreal.

You can try.. but that doesn't make it so. You have respected journalists saying these things. You have other journalists corraborating this by saying Orton was exhibiting the same behavior on other occasions.

If Orton was such a great worker would Chicago have let him go? Would he lose so many games even with a great offense and great offensive coach and a very good receiver corps around him?

PRBronco
02-04-2011, 10:20 AM
lol. SO basically, this whole thread is based on conjecture. Even the thread title is completely off base. Elway in NO WAY confirmed there was a rift, in fact he stated the obvious. "I've heard a little bit abou that also, but until I talk to both of them about that relationship I don't know exactly what that is"


hmmm...

Not unlike the "Orton is our starter if the season started today" one, IIRC.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 10:21 AM
You can try.. but that doesn't make it so. You have respected journalists saying these things. You have other journalists corraborating this by saying Orton was exhibiting the same behavior on other occasions.

If Orton was such a great worker would Chicago have let him go? Would he lose so many games even with a great offense and great offensive coach and a very good receiver corps around him?

They didnt "let him go"

remember? they got another QB in a trade...big difference

what "very good" receievers are you talking about? ours? Lloyd who owes his career to Orton's play? Royal, who had one year being a #2 opposite of Marshall? Gaffney?

Who are you talking about?

Miss I.
02-04-2011, 10:21 AM
lol. SO basically, this whole thread is based on conjecture. Even the thread title is completely off base. Elway in NO WAY confirmed there was a rift, in fact he stated the obvious. "I've heard a little bit abou that also, but until I talk to both of them about that relationship I don't know exactly what that is"



hmmm...

this is exactly what I thought too.

Also how come you guys call sports gossips news guys? Some commentary by a jackass on a radio show does not a fact make or news, just gossip. ya'll yammer on like a bunch of hens (and women are called gossips, puhlease..when you all get in a circle jerk like this one, there is no stopping ya)..

I realize ya'll are on the breakup train with Orton, but the guy played his heart out for us and unlike a really whiny child of a QB, didn't display the maturity of a 3 year old consistently enough to constitute calling him frown anything.

As for the comments by John, they do not sustain the thesis put out by the OP. However, knowing how dramatically people react he should have held his tongue, though I suspect he thought he was being dimplomatic, not realizing it would cause yet another OM make **** up fest.

Irish Stout
02-04-2011, 10:22 AM
lol. SO basically, this whole thread is based on conjecture. Even the thread title is completely off base. Elway in NO WAY confirmed there was a rift, in fact he stated the obvious. "I've heard a little bit abou that also, but until I talk to both of them about that relationship I don't know exactly what that is"



hmmm...

Like I said earlier - even Kaylore set this up poorly with the OP. Elway is not sharing secrets people. He is being honest without actually saying anything at all. There is no earth shattering news as everything he has said are things people already knew or were already saying themselves.

I mean, holy hell, it started when we drafted Tebow. We have seen the Orton-Tebow relationship go from relatively non-existant on day 1 to pretty much less than non-existant the day Tebow started.

People get mad when John says Orton is the best QB on our team. Well, thats obviously true RIGHT NOW. John says it, experts say it, even Tebow fans say it - Tebow will not be an elite QB in the NFL until he has mastered staying in and working the pocket.

People get mad when John answers a question by basically saying he has heard that question and wants to get whatever problem there may be worked out.

People get upset to easily. Everyone needs to pay a little closer attention to what John has actually said and they will discover he isn't saying anything at all. He should probably run for governor.

schaaf
02-04-2011, 10:22 AM
Oh, I don't disagree. My only concern - that 'rah rah' stuff he did after FLA lost that game, the one they immortalized with the plaque: that 'inspires' a 20 year old.

Does it do the same to the 15 year vet with the succubus ex-wife, 5 kids by other women, bad knees, and a failing car business? Does it play the same way to an older audience?

Watch Brian Dawkins and him in the video at the top, Dawkins has that same rah rah attitude, seemed to work well enough for him.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:23 AM
Proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esg8lUgS7KY

Every year, someone claims somebody "revolutionized" the "x" position.

Watch college football and go on Twitter.. you hear people saying over and over that their QB looks like "Tebow" running the ball.. even runningbacks.. I saw it first hand when most eveyr QB in college and many in the NFl were trying to play like Tebow as much as they could and many of them almost getting killed. He makes it look easier than it really is.

Daunte Culpepper was running that play before Tebow was even in high school.

Not to the extent Tebow was.. and not with his success. Tebow led the most successful class in SEC history and did it in by far the toughest era with the most parity. He did things no QB had ever done in the SEC. If he played outside the SEC he;d have put up numbers no one would ever come close to because of the far weaker defenses in other conferences.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:24 AM
You can try.. but that doesn't make it so. You have respected journalists saying these things. You have other journalists corraborating this by saying Orton was exhibiting the same behavior on other occasions.

If Orton was such a great worker would Chicago have let him go? Would he lose so many games even with a great offense and great offensive coach and a very good receiver corps around him?

MacGruder: McD said X.
Beantown: No. McD said the opposite of X and here's the quote.
MacGruder: His words don't mean anything. And, BTW, I'm going to believe a journalist's take instead. And guys that are hard workers don't ever get traded and don't ever lose games.

(I also find it funny how you aren't mentioning the league's worst defense or horrible special teams in your argument....football is only about one phase I guess)

bombay
02-04-2011, 10:24 AM
Some of the ladies here should be on one of those housewives shows.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:28 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esg8lUgS7KY



Watch college football and go on Twitter.. you hear people saying over and over that their QB looks like "Tebow" running the ball.. even runningbacks.. I saw it first hand when most eveyr QB in college and many in the NFl were trying to play like Tebow as much as they could and many of them almost getting killed. He makes it look easier than it really is.


You obviously don't know the definition of the word emulate. Look back at your original comment that I was laughing at. When some third party compares someone to someone else, that's not "emulating."

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:29 AM
They didnt "let him go"

remember? they got another QB in a trade...big difference

Orotn was treated as a throw-in in the deal..

what "very good" receievers are you talking about? ours? Lloyd who owes his career to Orton's play? Royal, who had one year being a #2 opposite of Marshall? Gaffney?

Sam Bradford who is an overrated rookie with far weaker receivers did far better.. he didn't have McD either..

And Orton owes all those guys not the other way around. Every QB that plays under McD and in his system looks great. And even with that Orton couldn't win games.

Hell.. Tebow said the same thing.. just throw the ball up to Lloyd and he will get it. Tebow had the best number of all rookies in preseason and in his games started with the same guys Orton had.. and kept his team in games more than Orton.. and Tebow had zero prep time.. and is a rookie and Orton is a vet.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:31 AM
You obviously don't know the definition of the word emulate. Look back at your original comment that I was laughing at. When some third party compares someone to someone else, that's not "emulating."

WTF? Are you on drugs? They say their QB looks like them or is the NEXT Tebow because their QB is trying to emulate him.. LOL

Wow..

You are either really desperate or really goofy..

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:34 AM
(I also find it funny how you aren't mentioning the league's worst defense or horrible special teams in your argument....football is only about one phase I guess)

This team was built for the offense to carry them.. not the defense... because McD's forte is offense.

The other guys did their part.. they gave Orton the numbers.. he couldn't d his part and convert first downs and convert at the end of games. The only wins this team got were because of the defense.. and they had all the injuries.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:34 AM
WTF? Are you on drugs? They say their QB looks like them or is the NEXT Tebow because their QB is trying to emulate him.. LOL

Wow..

You are either really desperate or really goofy..

Reading comprehension. It's not for everyone.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:36 AM
Reading comprehension. It's not for everyone.

BS semantics.. thankfully aren't for everyone..

You can live in your fantasy world where the only things that are accepted are those that can be definitively proven in a court of law but that doesn't make it reality.

It just makes you someone in denial.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:36 AM
The only wins this team got were because of the defense.. and they had all the injuries.

Orton
Clady
Harris
Kuper
Moreno
C Buck
L. White

They all played defense?

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 10:38 AM
Orotn was treated as a throw-in in the deal..



Sam Bradford who is an overrated rookie with far weaker receivers did far better.. he didn't have McD either..

And Orton owes all those guys not the other way around. Every QB that plays under McD and in his system looks great. And even with that Orton couldn't win games.

Hell.. Tebow said the same thing.. just throw the ball up to Lloyd and he will get it. Tebow had the best number of all rookies in preseason and in his games started with the same guys Orton had.. and kept his team in games more than Orton.. and Tebow had zero prep time.. and is a rookie and Orton is a vet.

wow...a starting QB is a throw-in? didnt realize that...plus McD said he wouldnt do the deal without Orton...

also, how do you think Bradford did better? Orton beat him in every statistical category....

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:39 AM
Sam Bradford who is an overrated rookie with far weaker receivers did far better..

Fewer TDs
More INTs
Less Yards
Worse QB rating

But he was better? C'mon now. He had a good season for a rookie. But he was not better than Orton, despite having a MUCH better running game and OLine supporting him.

jhns
02-04-2011, 10:40 AM
They didnt "let him go"

remember? they got another QB in a trade...big difference

what "very good" receievers are you talking about? ours? Lloyd who owes his career to Orton's play? Royal, who had one year being a #2 opposite of Marshall? Gaffney?

Who are you talking about?

LOL

You are throwing this teams receivers under the bus to defend Kyle Orton... Wtf...

Lloyd owes his career to Orton? He did the exact same thing with Tebow in and no McDaniels...

Royal was twice as good with Cutler as he was with Orton. Royal was in this system longer and with Orton longer and was still worse....

Orton is garbage. We will be better without him.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:42 AM
wow...a starting QB is a throw-in? didnt realize that...plus McD said he wouldnt do the deal without Orton...

Yeah.. because they needed a stop gap QB.. that was all Orton was ever meant to be.

[quote[also, how do you think Bradford did better? Orton beat him in every statistical category....[/QUOTE]

Not in efficiency, converting first downs and red zone he didn't. As McD said.. that is how you evaluate a QB... He beat him in hollow numbers though..

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 10:42 AM
LOL

You are throwing this teams receivers under the bus to defend Kyle Orton... Wtf...

Lloyd owes his career to Orton? He did the exact same thing with Tebow in and no McDaniels...

Royal was twice as good with Cutler as he was with Orton. Royal was in this system longer and with Orton longer and was still worse....

Orton is garbage. We will be better without him.

I am ALL FOR getting rid of Orton and hitching our wagon to Tebow...but to say that he wast he problem with the team is a very BIG reach

seriously, coming into the season everyone was bitching because our WRs BLEW...LLoyd's rejuvanation came with Orton under center....cmon Jizz...back up

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:44 AM
Orton
Clady
Harris
Kuper
Moreno
C Buck
L. White

They all played defense?

Considering the offense had the bulk of the talent and McD's forte is offense.. yes.. the injuries on offense were minimal compared to defense.

Again.. more semantics..

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 10:45 AM
Yeah.. because they needed a stop gap QB.. that was all Orton was ever meant to be.

[quote[also, how do you think Bradford did better? Orton beat him in every statistical category....

Not in efficiency, converting first downs and red zone he didn't. As McD said.. that is how you evaluate a QB... He beat him in hollow numbers though..[/QUOTE]

find Bradfords numbers than and I'll accept that

jhns
02-04-2011, 10:45 AM
Orton

They all played defense?

He was the best defender we faced all year. We had great offensive minds doing our game plans and even they couldn't figure out how to get past Orton.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:45 AM
Not in efficiency, converting first downs and red zone he didn't. As McD said.. that is how you evaluate a QB... He beat him in hollow numbers though..

Speaking of hollow numbers.....It certainly helps playing against the Broncos defense. It's not a coincidence that it was literally his only 300 yard game of the year and it was a 3-0 TD-INT performance. He didn't have anything else remotely resemble that the rest of the year.

zdoor
02-04-2011, 10:46 AM
I think they should do it the Gator Way. Declare a wrestling day in the off season and let Tebow take on all comers...

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 10:46 AM
Considering the offense had the bulk of the talent and McD's forte is offense.. yes.. the injuries on offense were minimal compared to defense.

Again.. more semantics..

he forgot to mention Royal's injury and D. Thomas being in and out too...

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:46 AM
I am ALL FOR getting rid of Orton and hitching our wagon to Tebow...but to say that he wast he problem with the team is a very BIG reach

seriously, coming into the season everyone was b****ing because our WRs BLEW...LLoyd's rejuvanation came with Orton under center....cmon Jizz...back up

No.. EVERYONE's rejuvenation was because of McD and his system. Orton protecting his own stats to keep his starting job is what made him look good and McD look bad.

The fans and media skewered the wrong guy -- McD. He is the boy wonder.. not Orton..

jhns
02-04-2011, 10:47 AM
I am ALL FOR getting rid of Orton and hitching our wagon to Tebow...but to say that he wast he problem with the team is a very BIG reach

seriously, coming into the season everyone was b****ing because our WRs BLEW...LLoyd's rejuvanation came with Orton under center....cmon Jizz...back up

LOL

Yes, this teams weakness is receiver.

Don't quit your day job.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:48 AM
Considering the offense had the bulk of the talent and McD's forte is offense.. yes.. the injuries on offense were minimal compared to defense.

Again.. more semantics..

You're insane. Injuries to guys like Clady and Harris, not to mention having to play rookies at two positions on the OLine, destroys everything you try to do on offense. You could have Tom Brady or Peyton Manning back there and it wouldn't matter.

Injuries along the OLine are important. Especially when you're talking Clady, who is easily one of the top 2 most talented guys on the team.

meangene
02-04-2011, 10:48 AM
John really needs to take a PR class.

This is the kind of stuff you don't say about a guy you're looking to trade.

Exactly. That is why I voted he should keep his mouth shut in the poll in the other thread. Just when you think he is getting the hang of it by calling Orton the starter if the season started right now and, thus, hopefully adding to his trade value, Elway comes out with this. If this CBA doesn't get worked out for a while, we may be stuck with Orton. This is not a good situation at all. I don't really feel sorry for Orton - he was the starter last year and this year and flat out did not show enough to beat out a supposed "project" in Tebow. Maybe Orton should pick up the pace in his sprints.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:49 AM
Speaking of hollow numbers.....It certainly helps playing against the Broncos defense. It's not a coincidence that it was literally his only 300 yard game of the year and it was a 3-0 TD-INT performance. He didn't have anything else remotely resemble that the rest of the year.

Orton was facing a bad D too.. Rams were the worst team the previous season.. Orton still couldn't win.. even at home! Against a rookie!

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 10:50 AM
LOL

Yes, this teams weakness is receiver.

Don't quit your day job.

so what was it then you ****in retard? the system that you SLAM every day that made the recievers good? or Gaffney, Lloyd and Royal being All Pros....I want your answer on this

or was it Orton getting htem the ball?

you go in circles and your arguments suck...they really do...you argue just for arguments sake with no real basis for anything

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:50 AM
LOL

Yes, this teams weakness is receiver.

Don't quit your day job.

He's saying that, last year at this time, everyone here believed it was. That is true. NOBODY here was proclaiming WR a strength after the Marshall trade.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 10:51 AM
He's saying that, last year at this time, everyone here believed it was. That is true. NOBODY here was proclaiming WR a strength after the Marshall trade.

EXACTLY!!

everyone here was literally up in arms about how bad our recievers were going to be

Jizz wasnt watching the team though at that time

jhns
02-04-2011, 10:52 AM
I don't really feel sorry for Orton - he was the starter last year and this year and flat out did not show enough to beat out a supposed "project" in Tebow. Maybe Orton should pick up the pace in his sprints.

This. I don't get why people are arguing that Orton is good. Tebow has a long ways to go and he easily outplayed Orton.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 10:52 AM
Orton was facing a bad D too.. Rams were the worst team the previous season.. Orton still couldn't win.. even at home! Against a rookie!

St Louis had the 19th ranked passing defense in the league in 2010. What does their 2009 season have to do with an argument about how they were, you know, when we actually played them, in 2010?

(Orton had 350 yds, 3 TDs and 0 INTs - yup, his fault we lost that one)

jhns
02-04-2011, 10:55 AM
so what was it then you ****in retard? the system that you SLAM every day that made the recievers good? or Gaffney, Lloyd and Royal being All Pros....I want your answer on this

or was it Orton getting htem the ball?

you go in circles and your arguments suck...they really do...you argue just for arguments sake with no real basis for anything

Wtf are you going on about? Our receivers are good. When did I argue something different? You are confused.

cutthemdown
02-04-2011, 10:55 AM
Not so sure I would have gone public with this.....might lower the trade value a little IMO

With all the players on each team talking etc etc I don't think too many secrets get kept in the NFL when it comes to people not getting along. I bet the GMS already know stuff like that way before we hear about it.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 10:57 AM
St Louis had the 19th ranked passing defense in the league in 2010. What does their 2009 season have to do with an argument about how they were, you know, when we actually played them, in 2010?

You obviously don't understand how football works.. Bradford carrying his team helped his defense and Orton's terrible play and inefficiency killed his teams run game, in turn killing his defense... If you can't keep your defense off the field and get them rest.. especially with all the injuries they had.. you are really putting them behind the 8-ball.

And the offense was supposed to be carrying the D.. not the other way around.

jhns
02-04-2011, 10:57 AM
EXACTLY!!

everyone here was literally up in arms about how bad our recievers were going to be

Jizz wasnt watching the team though at that time

Who cares what people speculated about last offseason? How is that proof of anything?

Again, if you think receiver is a weakness, you are a dumbass.

broncofan2438
02-04-2011, 10:57 AM
Get the **** out Kyle

jhns
02-04-2011, 11:00 AM
He's saying that, last year at this time, everyone here believed it was. That is true. NOBODY here was proclaiming WR a strength after the Marshall trade.

So what does that have to do with anything? Are you saying Lloyd isn't really good? He was just a product of Orton? Is that why he still produced with a project rookie and a coordinator that was suddenly thrown into calling plays?

Why would anyone base their argument on what people on a message board speculated about?

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 11:01 AM
EXACTLY!!

everyone here was literally up in arms about how bad our recievers were going to be

Jizz wasnt watching the team though at that time

They said the same thing when the Pats lost Moss...

Again.. McD and his brilliant system making Orton look like Brady and Cassell.. only Orton couldn't fill his end of the bargain an actually convert first downs and in the red zone..

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 11:01 AM
You obviously don't understand how football works.. Bradford carrying his team helped his defense and Orton's terrible play and inefficiency killed his teams run game, in turn killing his defense... If you can't keep your defense off the field and get them rest.. especially with all the injuries they had.. you are really putting them behind the 8-ball.


Unreal. Through the first half of the year, the Broncos passing game was leading the NFL in big plays and yards overall and were nowhere near the bottom of the league in 3 and outs. They were moving the ball fine through the air AND they were stretching the field, which logically should help the running game because other teams in theory couldn't stack the box.

Our injuries and inexperience along the OLine resulted in crappy run blocking. Orton had no effect on that whatsoever. No matter what RB we threw in there, the holes weren't there, the yards weren't there and the OLine was being pushed backwards with regularity.

Dedhed
02-04-2011, 11:03 AM
(Orton had 350 yds, 3 TDs and 0 INTs - yup, his fault we lost that one)
Most of that against a soft deep zone defense.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 11:03 AM
Who cares what people speculated about last offseason? How is that proof of anything?

Again, if you think receiver is a weakness, you are a dumbass.

the system, that you HATED, made the recievers...

in short

jhns
02-04-2011, 11:05 AM
Hey guys. Most speculated 3 years ago that Orton isn't good. What more proof do you need that he sucks?

Case closed.

jhns
02-04-2011, 11:09 AM
the system, that you HATED, made the recievers...

in short

Weren't you just arguing that Orton made the receivers?

How could you not hate the system? We had Kyle Orton as the starting QB and threw on most every down. Even when the run game was working, they refused to use it. That is not a good system. It isn't like we had Brees or Manning in there...

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 11:13 AM
Unreal. Through the first half of the year, the Broncos passing game was leading the NFL in big plays and yards overall and were nowhere near the bottom of the league in 3 and outs. They were moving the ball fine through the air AND they were stretching the field, which logically should help the running game because other teams in theory couldn't stack the box.

Our injuries and inexperience along the OLine resulted in crappy run blocking. Orton had no effect on that whatsoever. No matter what RB we threw in there, the holes weren't there, the yards weren't there and the OLine was being pushed backwards with regularity.

Orton's inability to throw down field effectively and his reliance on checking down is what killed the offenses ability to run the ball. Teams DARED Orton to pass down field and he couldn't do it effectively enough to force defenses to focus on stopping it.

He is also very soft and injury prone.. and lacks mobility.. so it PAYS to attack him in the pocket and costs teams nothing because of his weakness passing down field.

It is also very demoralizing when you can't convert first downs and in the red zone.. this is why Orton was such a weak leader and why Tebow motivated his teammates to play better.. especially the defense. Imagine what Tebow could do starting the beginning of the season rather than having to try to reverse the apathy Orton instilled.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 11:14 AM
Most of that against a soft deep zone defense.

He had over 100 yds passing at the half and would've had more if not for two drives being cut short due to turnovers outside his control.

If all he was facing was soft zone, how in the hell did he complete so many deep passes in the second half, including a 40 yd TD strike? How? He was still being blitzed. Regardless, you don't blame the guy who puts up 350 yds and 3 TDs and 0 INTs in a game where the defense gives up 36 pts and the RB turns it over twice. That's just retarded.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 11:15 AM
Orton's inability to throw down field effectively and his reliance on checking down is what killed the offenses ability to run the ball. Teams DARED Orton to pass down field and he couldn't do it effectively enough to force defenses to focus on stopping it.

Dude, we led the entire effing NFL in 40+ yard pass plays for most of the year. Orton was spot on with the deep passing game the first 3/4 of the year.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 11:16 AM
Weren't you just arguing that Orton made the receivers?

How could you not hate the system? We had Kyle Orton as the starting QB and threw on most every down. Even when the run game was working, they refused to use it. That is not a good system. It isn't like we had Brees or Manning in there...

I chimed in on the argument that Orton SUCKS....i dont think he sucks...i think he's a competent QB who could flourish in the right system (ie. the McDaniels project) QB was not the problem with our offense...it probably was a bad system for our personnel

Then it was brought up that the recievers MADE Orton...I countered by saying that they had never reached the level before this season with Orton and the system in there

i also said that coming INTO the season, WR was supposed to be a weak point on the roster

i really was just trying to make the point that even if we had a Brees or a Manning in there, our team would have been exposed in the other aspects of the game (defense and special teams)

MacGruber is saying that Orton was the crux of our problems

HAT
02-04-2011, 11:17 AM
Now Orton is the new Cutler.

Been saying it for over a year...They are interchangeable.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 11:18 AM
Orton's inability to throw down field effectively and his reliance on checking down is what killed the offenses ability to run the ball. Teams DARED Orton to pass down field and he couldn't do it effectively enough to force defenses to focus on stopping it.

He is also very soft and injury prone.. and lacks mobility.. so it PAYS to attack him in the pocket and costs teams nothing because of his weakness passing down field.

It is also very demoralizing when you can't convert first downs and in the red zone.. this is why Orton was such a weak leader and why Tebow motivated his teammates to play better.. especially the defense. Imagine what Tebow could do starting the beginning of the season rather than having to try to reverse the apathy Orton instilled.

throwing downfield was actually ALL we could do this year

are we watching the same games?

Garcia Bronco
02-04-2011, 11:18 AM
Orton is an jerk. I had a buddy on the course last August and and the pair behind him kept hitting balls into them. Finally he goes back there and it's Orton and Stokley. They were trying to hurry with some time off from training camp. Once is an accident; more than that and it's an a-hole that needs to be taught a lesson..

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 11:22 AM
Orton is an jerk. I had a buddy on the course last August and and the pair behind him kept hitting balls into them. Finally he goes back there and it's Orton and Stokley. They were trying to hurry with some time off from training camp. Once is an accident; more than that and it's an a-hole that needs to be taught a lesson..

he wouldnt sign an autograph for some kid who cut in line the other day at a signing

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 11:25 AM
Dude, we led the entire effing NFL in 40+ yard pass plays for most of the year. Orton was spot on with the deep passing game the first 3/4 of the year.

Once again.. you don't understand football.. if you have a high stat in one area it is likely because opposing defenses dare you to do that.

Defenses take away your strength.. and dare you to try to beat them with your weakness... in Orton's case the word was out on him. He is a dink and dunk checkdown QB.

That plays into defenses hands because they can take that and the run game out at the same time. If you have a weak running game already it completely destroys it. And by the time you get to the red zone your line and runners are beat to hell too.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 11:26 AM
Once again.. you don't understand football.. if you have a high stat in one area it is likely because opposing defenses dare you to do that.

Defenses take away your strength.. and dare you to try to beat them with your weakness... in Orton's case the word was out on him.

He is a dink and dunk checkdown QB. That plays into defenses hands because they can take that and the run game out at the same time. If you have a weak running game already it completely destroys it. And by the time you get to the red zone your line and runners are beat to hell too.

so you're saying that teams were stacking us against the run?

you didnt watch this team...I'm convinced now

Crushaholic
02-04-2011, 11:26 AM
he wouldnt sign an autograph for some kid who cut in line the other day at a signing

...while sitting them down to watch Ghostbusters...

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 11:32 AM
so you're saying that teams were stacking us against the run?

you didnt watch this team...I'm convinced now

No.. I am saying they didn't have to focus on defending downfield.. there is no punishment for not focusing defensive pressure there. You don't have to stack the box to kill the run..

Look at Tebow with his play action to himself.. just causing the defenders to hesitate a second opens all kinds of offense.

Orton allows defenses to play the pass game soft.. because they know even if he punishes them it won't be enough and killing the run and attacking Orton pays off all day long.

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 11:37 AM
I see the same thing happening in the NFL with other Qbs trying to emulate him really before he even came in the NFL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esg8lUgS7KY

Wait. Wait just a second.

Did you just use this youtube of Tomlin messing with Roethlisberger as proof that Roethlisberger was TRYING to emulate a college player?

I know you didn't just do that. Wait. You did.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2011, 11:39 AM
so you're saying that teams were stacking us against the run?

you didnt watch this team...I'm convinced now

He lives in Omaha. Was probably out ****ing his cows on Sundays.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 11:42 AM
Once again.. you don't understand football.. if you have a high stat in one area it is likely because opposing defenses dare you to do that.

Defenses take away your strength.. and dare you to try to beat them with your weakness... in Orton's case the word was out on him. He is a dink and dunk checkdown QB.

That plays into defenses hands because they can take that and the run game out at the same time. If you have a weak running game already it completely destroys it. And by the time you get to the red zone your line and runners are beat to hell too.

You said he wasn't effective with the deep ball. He literally led the league for most of the year with the deep ball. No matter what dribble comes out of your mouth to try to state otherwise, you were wrong.....as usual.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 11:47 AM
Wait. Wait just a second.

Did you just use this youtube of Tomlin messing with Roethlisberger as proof that Roethlisberger was TRYING to emulate a college player?

I know you didn't just do that. Wait. You did.

Messing with Roethlisberger? Are you nuts? You mean like it was a negative to play like Tebow? You are deluding yourself here..

Sanchez was trying to play like Tebow at the exact same time.. only his coach put a stop to it because he knew he'd get killed.

I noticed Bigben trying to play like Tebow when Tebow was getting all the hype in college.. it was totally obvious if you were watching both at that time. Every QB tries to play like Tebow now.... that's the point. He revolutionized the position. people didn't believe a QB could survive playing like he did.. and in most cases that is accurate.

I think Tebow even impacted other running Qb like Vince and Vick.. bot those guys were going through their issues when Tebow was being hyped and both came back with a dedication to being passers because Tebow was so developed in both aspects in college. How could he not affect all these guys with all the hype around him?

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2011, 11:49 AM
Apparently, John Elway and Steve Young tried to play like Tebow too.

This guy is just unreal.

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 11:51 AM
This thread really took a turn for the worse...

HAT
02-04-2011, 11:53 AM
Every QB tries to play like Tebow now.... that's the point. He revolutionized the position.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSre_bU_qWpYiX3Z4mZyLfG_gAvKWJkG iNi-Q0pwi-_L3CK1lrI&t=1

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 11:55 AM
Messing with Roethlisberger? Are you nuts? You mean like it was a negative to play like Tebow? You are deluding yourself here..

Sanchez was trying to play like Tebow at the exact same time.. only his coach put a stop to it because he knew he'd get killed.

I noticed Bigben trying to play like Tebow when Tebow was getting all the hype in college.. it was totally obvious if you were watching both at that time. Every QB tries to play like Tebow now.... that's the point. He revolutionized the position. people didn't believe a QB could survive playing like he did.. and in most cases that is accurate.

I think Tebow even impacted other running Qb like Vince and Vick.. bot those guys were going through their issues when Tebow was being hyped and both came back with a dedication to being passers because Tebow was so developed in both aspects in college. How could he not affect all these guys with all the hype around him?


ummmm....the Vince Young that was ruling the college game before Tebow even took the field?

what's going on here?

This isnt where I parked my car

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 11:57 AM
You said he wasn't effective with the deep ball. He literally led the league for most of the year with the deep ball. No matter what dribble comes out of your mouth to try to state otherwise, you were wrong.....as usual.

And you are living in a fantasyland as usual..

Why do you think people say all the time numbers don't matter?

Tebow had weak running numbers playing SEC defenses and because he had weak runners around him in college.. Teams DARED other runners around Tebow to beat them in college and focused on stopping him.. this made him look bad as a runner and them look great.

Because of this people thought Tebow would suck as a runner in the NFL and they thought the Gators would roll on just as great without Tim. This season the Gators were terrible and those stellar runners around him were terrible.. the offense fell apart. The guy they said was a better pocket QB than Tebow tanked. And Tebow has looked like a much better runner in the NFL than people thought he would be..

Again, just shows you how completely inaccurate numbers can be.

Same thing happened with Tebow's passing. people thought Tebow was a weak passer in college because his numbers were low. Not realizing it was because he played great D in the SEC AND because the Gators had weak runners around him. Teams focused on taking his deep passes away and DARED them to run. This made the runners around him look much better too... and made his passing look bad. This is why Tebow is shocking people so much with his passing in the NFL.

"who said Tebow couldn't pass the ball?"

lostknight
02-04-2011, 11:59 AM
I'm not sure why anyone is surprised here. When Orton was injured and out that first game, according to KOA, he lurked in the tunnel before coming out in the second half. In addition, he found the KOA sidelines reporter, and told him that "he was ready to come in anytime."

That's not classy.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 12:01 PM
And you are living in a fantasyland as usual..

Why do you think people say all the time numbers don't matter?

Tebow had weak running numbers playing SEC defenses and because he had weak runners around him in college.. Teams DARED other runners around Tebow to beat them in college and focused on stopping him.. this made him look bad as a runner and them look great.

Because of this people thought Tebow would suck as a runner in the NFL and they thought the Gators would roll on just as great without Tim. This season the Gators were terrible and those stellar runners around him were terrible.. the offense fell apart. The guy they said was a better pocket QB than Tebow tanked. And Tebow has looked like a much better runner in the NFL than people thought he would be..

Again, just shows you how completely inaccurate numbers can be.

Same thing happened with Tebow's passing. people thought Tebow was a weak passer in college because his numbers were low. Not realizing it was because he played great D in the SEC AND because the Gators had weak runners around him. Teams focused on taking his deep passes away and DARED them to run. This made the runners around him look much better too... and made his passing look bad. This is why Tebow is shocking people so much with his passing in the NFL.

"who said Tebow couldn't pass the ball?"


they ran a spread offense....name a running back that put up big numbers in a spread offense...people said he would be a weak passer because he wasnt taking snaps from under center and his release is offputting...

defenses actually used to stack the box against the Gators because they needed to stop the options and the sweeps...Tebow RARELY went deep in college and when he did it was off of a double back shotgun play action call where they caught someone sleeping

sorry to interrupt your rant with real football talk...proceed

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 12:01 PM
ummmm....the Vince Young that was ruling the college game before Tebow even took the field?

what's going on here?

This isnt where I parked my car

You don't know what you are talking about.. Vince was a weak passer most of his time in college and played Terrible D. Look at his passing numbers all through college even against weak D. Why do you think Vince couldn't win a Heisman? He lost the Heisman against the worst D in college football that year..

Yes he had a great game in the championship game.. but guess what.. USC's D was as overrated as Vince Young..

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 12:04 PM
You don't know what you are talking about.. Vince was a weak passer most of his time in college and played Terrible D. Look at his passing numbers all through college even against weak D. Why do you think Vince couldn't win a Heisman? He lost the Heisman against the worst D in college football that year..

Yes he had a great game in the championship game.. but guess what.. USC's D was as overrated as Vince Young..

he didnt win the Heisman because he was competing against what some pundits were calling "the most electrifying college football player EVER"

I dont understand how you can say that Young and Vick are EMULATING Tebow...they paved the way for him...and Vick is NOTHING like the other two...he has amazing armstrength and beats people with his speed, not a power running style

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 12:06 PM
Just ask Jim Brown. He was emulating Tim Tebow.

HAT
02-04-2011, 12:08 PM
Same thing happened with Tebow's passing. people thought Tebow was a weak passer in college because his numbers were low. Not realizing it was because he played great D in the SEC AND because the Gators had weak runners around him. Teams focused on taking his deep passes away and DARED them to run.

Seriously? Wow.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 12:11 PM
they ran a spread offense....name a running back that put up big numbers in a spread offense...people said he would be a weak passer because he wasnt taking snaps from under center and his release is offputting...

Hey.. I am not saying the Broncos running numbers should have been stellar.. but they should have been much better. And if they were they would have been efficient in the red zone and converting 1st downs.. AND that would have done wonders for the defense keeping them off the field and sucking up clock.


defenses actually used to stack the box against the Gators because they needed to stop the options and the sweeps...Tebow RARELY went deep in college and when he did it was off of a double back shotgun play action call where they caught someone sleeping

You are WRONG dude.. Tebow killed it passing the ball his first season.. as a rookie.. Passing down field is his strength.. but as I said.. because teams knew he was the only dangerous runner they focused on stopping the pass to slow the gators offense down and dared the gators finesse runners to run the ball..

Tebow made that finesse spread attack tough because he was the physical between the tackles runner that made it all work. But Tebow and his runners COULD NOT run is he wasn't a great down field passer.. this is what people were so clueless about..

If you think about it it makes no sense.. if Tebow was just a runner then you could take ANY runner put them at QB and dominate the SEC like no one before..

Of course Cam Newton seems to support this.. but he really doesn't.. because Auburn is a totally different team. Auburn was a power run team. This is the PERFECT team for a running QB that can't pass deep like Cam.

This is why Florida let Cam go.. because Cam would have TANKED trying to fill the role Tebow did.. for the exact same reasons Orton killed the Broncos.. inability to pass deep and killing the run game.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 12:14 PM
Seriously? Wow.


This is absolutely true.. how else do you explain Tebow passing so well his first season as a starter in college? This was before teams realized Tebow was the only solid runner they had.. so take the passing out of the equation.. focus on stopping Tebow running the ball and dare the other runners to beat you.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 12:18 PM
This is absolutely true.. how else do you explain Tebow passing so well his first season as a starter in college? This was before teams realized Tebow was the only solid runner they had.. so take the passing out of the equation.. focus on stopping Tebow running the ball and dare the other runners to beat you.

you do realize that in a spread offense you don't use a "real" runner....right?

Percy Harvin was their primary back...

Percy Harvin on the Vikings...

Percy Harvin who plays wide receiver

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 12:21 PM
he didnt win the Heisman because he was competing against what some pundits were calling "the most electrifying college football player EVER"[quote]

That most electrifying player ever was also playing weak D. The same D that made Leinart look lke a NFL Qb.. The same D that made Ryan Leaf look better than Peyton Manning.. who was devalued in the SEC like Tebow..

[quote] dont understand how you can say that Young and Vick are EMULATING Tebow...they paved the way for him...and Vick is NOTHING like the other two...he has amazing armstrength and beats people with his speed, not a power running style

I was talking about in their work ethic as passers. Tebow was a more advanced passer than these guys at a younger age.. you just don't realize it because Tebow was facing SEC D and they weren't. He was hyped in college as the best college player ever.. you don't think that motivated them to try to show how they were better.. and they both revamped their work ethics and focus on passing? Again.. Id on't see how anyone could think this wouldn't affect them..

Did you see what happened to Colt Brennan and Sam Bradford when they went from lesser D to SEC D?

Tebow even kept much of his passing in reserve because he could and because his D had most the talent several 2 of the years.

But let me be clear.. these guys are probably thinking "I could do what Tebow could do too.. he's not so great"

So in their eyes they don't see it as "emulating" Tebow.. but that is the reality.. and it's a testament to Tebow..

oubronco
02-04-2011, 12:23 PM
he didnt win the Heisman because he was competing against what some pundits were calling "the most electrifying college football player EVER"

I dont understand how you can say that Young and Vick are EMULATING Tebow...they paved the way for him...and Vick is NOTHING like the other two...he has amazing armstrength and beats people with his speed, not a power running style

I believe Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson and Billy Simms just to name a few were more electrifying than Tebow

cutthemdown
02-04-2011, 12:23 PM
Orton's inability to throw down field effectively and his reliance on checking down is what killed the offenses ability to run the ball. Teams DARED Orton to pass down field and he couldn't do it effectively enough to force defenses to focus on stopping it.

He is also very soft and injury prone.. and lacks mobility.. so it PAYS to attack him in the pocket and costs teams nothing because of his weakness passing down field.

It is also very demoralizing when you can't convert first downs and in the red zone.. this is why Orton was such a weak leader and why Tebow motivated his teammates to play better.. especially the defense. Imagine what Tebow could do starting the beginning of the season rather than having to try to reverse the apathy Orton instilled.

You think Tebow will make teams play coverage so we can run?

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 12:24 PM
I believe Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson and Billy Simms just to name a few were more electrifying than Tebow

Actually, when they saw Tebow in diapers, they stepped their game up, because they knew that what Tebow was doing was going to be greater than what they did when they were in diapers.

PTC
02-04-2011, 12:25 PM
[QUOTE=vancejohnson82;3109762]he didnt win the Heisman because he was competing against what some pundits were calling "the most electrifying college football player EVER"[quote]

That most electrifying player ever was also playing weak D. The same D that made Leinart look lke a NFL Qb.. The same D that made Ryan Leaf look better than Peyton Manning.. who was devalued in the SEC like Tebow..



I was talking about in their work ethic as passers. Tebow was a more advanced passer than these guys at a younger age.. you just don't realize it because Tebow was facing SEC D and they weren't. He was hyped in college as the best college player ever.. you don't think that motivated them to try to show how they were better.. and they both revamped their work ethics and focus on passing? Again.. Id on't see how anyone could think this wouldn't affect them..

Did you see what happened to Colt Brennan and Sam Bradford when they went from lesser D to SEC D?

Tebow even kept much of his passing in reserve because he could and because his D had most the talent several 2 of the years.

But let me be clear.. these guys are probably thinking "I could do what Tebow could do too.. he's not so great"

So in their eyes they don't see it as "emulating" Tebow.. but that is the reality.. and it's a testament to Tebow..

I highly doubt these guys are looking at Tebow as their God for getting up everyday and playing football.

PTC
02-04-2011, 12:26 PM
You think Tebow will make teams play coverage so we can run?

That's really the coaches job at the end of the day...

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 12:26 PM
[QUOTE=vancejohnson82;3109762]he didnt win the Heisman because he was competing against what some pundits were calling "the most electrifying college football player EVER"[quote]

That most electrifying player ever was also playing weak D. The same D that made Leinart look lke a NFL Qb.. The same D that made Ryan Leaf look better than Peyton Manning.. who was devalued in the SEC like Tebow..



I was talking about in their work ethic as passers. Tebow was a more advanced passer than these guys at a younger age.. you just don't realize it because Tebow was facing SEC D and they weren't. He was hyped in college as the best college player ever.. you don't think that motivated them to try to show how they were better.. and they both revamped their work ethics and focus on passing? Again.. Id on't see how anyone could think this wouldn't affect them..

Did you see what happened to Colt Brennan and Sam Bradford when they went from lesser D to SEC D?

Tebow even kept much of his passing in reserve because he could and because his D had most the talent several 2 of the years.

But let me be clear.. these guys are probably thinking "I could do what Tebow could do too.. he's not so great"

So in their eyes they don't see it as "emulating" Tebow.. but that is the reality.. and it's a testament to Tebow..


Dude, you are preaching to the choir when talking about the SEC...its all I watch when it comes to college football, pretty much

Vick was done with college when Tebow came in...and Young was almost done

so you are saying that, those two, as pros, were paying attention to a guy in college who many said would be a 3rd or 4th round draft pick and trying to be LIKE HIM?

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 12:27 PM
I believe Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson and Billy Simms just to name a few were more electrifying than Tebow

I was talking about Bush...in college of course

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 12:27 PM
you do realize that in a spread offense you don't use a "real" runner....right?

Percy Harvin was their primary back...

Percy Harvin on the Vikings...

Percy Harvin who plays wide receiver

That's not by design.. you think it was by choice that Florida didn't have a decent between the tackles runner other than Tebow? Running wins game sin the SEC.. that is why Tebow made them successful an without him they tanked...

And they tries to use other physical runners at UF too and they tanked..

You have it backwards.. runners CHOSE not to play for UF because they are a spread and wanted to play in a pro offense that translated..

You are also making the assumption that UF didn't want to play a pro style offense.. they tried playing Tebow under center when he was there but because of the lack of a physcial run game it tanked hard. They tried the same with the guy who was supposed to be a great pro prospect compared to Tebow in Brantley.. tanked then too..

Jonathan Stewart was a runningback that put up monster numbers at Oregon as well.. so to say a good runner won't prosper in that type of offense is silly...

Kaylore
02-04-2011, 12:28 PM
Holy crap this thread blew up. I will edit the thread.

Kaylore
02-04-2011, 12:30 PM
So that's a slightly more accurate description. I've been slammed at work and just now saw this got so long. FWIW the rumors of Orton and Tebow not caring for each other are from multiple sources so I'm pretty sure it's true.

As for Tebow working too hard, if that is what Orton was bothered by he needs to get over it.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 12:33 PM
Dude, you are preaching to the choir when talking about the SEC...its all I watch when it comes to college football, pretty much

Vick was done with college when Tebow came in...and Young was almost done

so you are saying that, those two, as pros, were paying attention to a guy in college who many said would be a 3rd or 4th round draft pick and trying to be LIKE HIM?

Yes.. because Tebow was called the greatest and most decorated college football player ever..

How could that NOT effect them? He almost won multiple Heismans and was said to revolutionize his position.

He was also touted for his incredible work ethic and character.. if ou don't think these guys were motivated by that I think you're nuts.

If you don't think all these guys trying to play like Tebow.. in college and in the NFL aren't motivated by Tebow I think you are nuts..

He had the highest selling jersey in the NFL all season.. he's hyped like crazy.. and players know Tebow is legit.. they know all that media downplaying him is BS. It was for show.. And because he was knocked for playing in a SEC D. Guys like Vince and Vick know they couldn't pass or run like Tebow did in the SEC at that stage of development.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 12:33 PM
So that's a slightly more accurate description. I've been slammed at work and just now saw this got so long. FWIW the rumors of Orton and Tebow not caring for each other are from multiple sources so I'm pretty sure it's true.

As for Tebow working too hard, if that is what Orton was bothered by he needs to get over it.

Kaylore,

This is waaaay too relevant to the thread title...

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 12:35 PM
You think Tebow will make teams play coverage so we can run?

I think they already were.. If they weren't Tebow would have never been able to run like he did.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 12:35 PM
Yes.. because Tebow was called the greatest and most decorated college football player ever..

How could that NOT effect them? He almost won multiple Heismans and was said to revolutionize his position.

He was also touted for his incredible work ethic and character.. if ou don't think these guys were motivated by that I think you're nuts.

If you don't think all these guys trying to play like Tebow.. in college and in the NFL aren't motivated by Tebow I think you are nuts..

He had the highest selling jersey in the NFL all season.. he's hyped like crazy.. and players know Tebow is legit.. they know all that media downplaying him is BS. It was for show.. And because he was knocked for playing in a SEC D. Guys like Vince and Vick know they couldn't pass or run like Tebow did in the SEC at that stage of development.


if you think guys in the NFL watch the college game and try to emulate guys at that level...you are certifiable....i think thats where we can end our discourse because we disagree

at least we both like SEC football though

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 12:38 PM
If it's true that he's calling Tebow out for trying hard during wind sprints, that's just too funny, and it shows that Orton is kind of weak minded.

Reminds me of this

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/74lpM-0Ni5g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

PTC
02-04-2011, 12:39 PM
Yes.. because Tebow was called the greatest and most decorated college football player ever..

How could that NOT effect them? He almost won multiple Heismans and was said to revolutionize his position.

He was also touted for his incredible work ethic and character.. if ou don't think these guys were motivated by that I think you're nuts.

If you don't think all these guys trying to play like Tebow.. in college and in the NFL aren't motivated by Tebow I think you are nuts..

He had the highest selling jersey in the NFL all season.. he's hyped like crazy.. and players know Tebow is legit.. they know all that media downplaying him is BS. It was for show.. And because he was knocked for playing in a SEC D. Guys like Vince and Vick know they couldn't pass or run like Tebow did in the SEC at that stage of development.

Jesus... were you the guy that Tebow proposed to your GF for?

No one is paying attention to Tebow right now. You're actually nuts for even thinking that these guys go to work thinking about Tebow. This actually lets me know you've really never played any sports in your life, but if you some how did pick up a ball, you must of sucked because of all the looking up you did to the players that were better than you.

Right now, Tebow is the rear view mirrors of players in the NFL... you don't look back when you're trying move forward.

Now please, go order a u-haul full of Tebow jerseys so his jersey sales boost up.

baja
02-04-2011, 12:45 PM
Ten pages in four hours. Wow!


The real story here is John Elway's mouth re. keep it shut.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 12:47 PM
Ten pages in four hours. Wow!


The real story here is John Elway's mouth re. keep it shut.

back to topic...he really didnt say anything that revealing

i think the biggest thing that someone brought up during the last 4 hours of bickering was this

"IF KYLE COMES BACK"

IF

IF

IF

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 12:47 PM
Yes.. because Tebow was called the greatest and most decorated college football player ever..

How could that NOT effect them? He almost won multiple Heismans and was said to revolutionize his position.

He was also touted for his incredible work ethic and character.. if ou don't think these guys were motivated by that I think you're nuts.

If you don't think all these guys trying to play like Tebow.. in college and in the NFL aren't motivated by Tebow I think you are nuts..

He had the highest selling jersey in the NFL all season.. he's hyped like crazy.. and players know Tebow is legit.. they know all that media downplaying him is BS. It was for show.. And because he was knocked for playing in a SEC D. Guys like Vince and Vick know they couldn't pass or run like Tebow did in the SEC at that stage of development.

Tebow was 12 when Michael Vick was lighting it up at Va. Tech and going to the National Title game.

I don't think Vick really gives a **** that Tebow did good things in college, too.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 12:53 PM
if you think guys in the NFL watch the college game and try to emulate guys at that level...you are certifiable....i think thats where we can end our discourse because we disagree

at least we both like SEC football though

Dude.. we are talking about the greatest college football player ever.. maybe the greatest player to ever play his sport at that stage and maybe ever.. and he is playing it like no one else in history..

How could you think ALL football players wouldn't recognize that? Now again.. I think these guys probably think they could do the same thing.. and many have tried and nearly gotten killed.. BigBen himself.. Sanchez too.. but that is how Tebow motivates people.. on his team and in general.. on his teammates intentionally and everyone by his success..

It is amazing to me how people don't know what they are seeing.. I guarantee you these players do... much more than fans who listen to media BS..

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 12:55 PM
Dude.. we are talking about the greatest college football player ever.. maybe the greatest player to ever play his sport at that stage and maybe ever.. and he is playing it like no one else in history..

How could you think ALL football players wouldn't recognize that? Now again.. I think these guys probably think they could do the same thing.. and many have tried and nearly gotten killed.. BigBen himself.. Sanchez too.. but that is how Tebow motivates people.. on his team and in general.. on his teammates intentionally and everyone by his success..

It is amazing to me how people don't know what they are seeing.. I guarantee you these players do... much more than fans who listen to media BS..

Kirk Herbstreit? Is that you?

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 12:55 PM
Dude.. we are talking about the greatest college football player ever.. maybe the greatest player to ever play his sport at that stage and maybe ever.. and he is playing it like no one else in history..

How could you think ALL football players wouldn't recognize that? Now again.. I think these guys probably think they could do the same thing.. and many have tried and nearly gotten killed.. BigBen himself.. Sanchez too.. but that is how Tebow motivates people.. on his team and in general.. on his teammates intentionally and everyone by his success..

It is amazing to me how people don't know what they are seeing.. I guarantee you these players do... much more than fans who listen to media BS..

Have you ever been around a professional athlete? Or a college athlete?

Nobody looks backwards and tries to "Be Like Mike"....

do you think Kobe Bryant was watching LeBron in high school and trying to play like him? Do you think he even watched him PLAY??

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 12:56 PM
Dude.. we are talking about the greatest college football player ever.. maybe the greatest player to ever play his sport at that stage and maybe ever.. and he is playing it like no one else in history..

How could you think ALL football players wouldn't recognize that? Now again.. I think these guys probably think they could do the same thing.. and many have tried and nearly gotten killed.. BigBen himself.. Sanchez too.. but that is how Tebow motivates people.. on his team and in general.. on his teammates intentionally and everyone by his success..

It is amazing to me how people don't know what they are seeing.. I guarantee you these players do... much more than fans who listen to media BS..

You're starting to make me sick now.....can the overt, gushy manlove possibly get any more extreme?

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 12:57 PM
Tebow was 12 when Michael Vick was lighting it up at Va. Tech and going to the National Title game.

I don't think Vick really gives a **** that Tebow did good things in college, too.

Yeah.. right.. athletes aren't competitive.. I am sure he doesn't care at all that Tebow is considered a better college player than he is. You're right..what was I thinking.. LOL

You are missing the point.. let's say I said "the hype" around Tebow moved Vince Young.. then what would you say?

But realize that the hype is generated BY Tebow and his incredible talents.... then what would you say?

I am sure when Tebow beat Vick's 3 cone and vertical leap at 240 lbs I am sure Vick ignored that too..

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 01:00 PM
Have you ever been around a professional athlete? Or a college athlete?

Nobody looks backwards and tries to "Be Like Mike"....

do you think Kobe Bryant was watching LeBron in high school and trying to play like him? Do you think he even watched him PLAY??

I guess you missed Clyde Drexler in the dunk contest trying to dunk at the freethrow line like MJ and failing..

I don't understand how you could come to this conclusion.. again.. you aren't listening to what I am saying..

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 01:00 PM
Yeah.. right.. athletes aren't competitive.. I am sure he doesn't care at all that Tebow is considered a better college player than he is. You're right..what was I thinking.. LOL

You are missing the point.. let's say I said "the hype" around Tebow moved Vince Young.. then what would you say?

But realize that the hype is generated BY Tebow and his incredible talents.... then what would you say?

I am sure when Tebow beat Vick's 3 cone and vertical leap at 240 lbs I am sure Vick ignored that too..

Wow. Just wow.

No, I don't think Vick cares. And I doubt Young does, either.

PTC
02-04-2011, 01:00 PM
It is amazing to me how people don't know what they are seeing.. I guarantee you these players do... much more than fans who listen to media BS..

Yes.. because Tebow was called the greatest and most decorated college football player ever..

How could that NOT effect them? He almost won multiple Heismans and was said to revolutionize his position.

He was also touted for his incredible work ethic and character.. if ou don't think these guys were motivated by that I think you're nuts.


He had the highest selling jersey in the NFL all season.. he's hyped like crazy[.. and players know Tebow is legit.. they know all that media downplaying him is BS. It was for show.. And because he was knocked for playing in a SEC D. Guys like Vince and Vick know they couldn't pass or run like Tebow did in the SEC at that stage of development.

What's crazy is, you're making up a lot of BS as you roll along saying that Vick and company are looking up to Tebow with absolutely no proof other than your questionable philosophy that probably deserves some professional attention from someone in the psychology field, preferable one that specializes in obsession over people/popular people.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/50/old.jpg

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 01:01 PM
I guess you missed Clyde Drexler in the dunk contest trying to dunk at the freethrow line like MJ and failing..

I don't understand how you could come to this conclusion.. again.. you aren't listening to what I am saying..

Wait, wut?

No, what you are saying is that some high school kid did a dunk that got on youtube and then Clyde Drexler tried to mimic that high school kid.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 01:02 PM
You're starting to make me sick now.....can the overt, gushy manlove possibly get any more extreme?

You should really be careful what you say.. because it looks like you are projecting there.. Google "projecting" and you will see how embarrassing it is for yourself.. What are you afraid of?

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 01:03 PM
I guess you missed Clyde Drexler in the dunk contest trying to dunk at the freethrow line like MJ and failing..

I don't understand how you could come to this conclusion.. again.. you aren't listening to what I am saying..

ummmm, thats a dunk competition....its a one-up-manship type show

if you think Vick cares in the slightest bit about Tebow's cone drill time, you are OUT OF YOUR MIND

please don't take this the wrong way, but how old are you? that's a serious question, not a jab or anything

when i was younger i would have thought that this type of mentality exists in pro sports but it doesnt

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 01:04 PM
You should really be careful what you say.. because it looks like you are projecting there.. Google "projecting" and you will see how embarrassing it is for yourself.. What are you afraid of?

Yeah, that's it.....nice try fanboy

PTC
02-04-2011, 01:05 PM
Yeah.. right.. athletes aren't competitive.. I am sure he doesn't care at all that Tebow is considered a better college player than he is. You're right..what was I thinking.. LOL

He doesn't... what does that got to do with Vick now? You realize Vick is currently head and heels a better NFL QB than Tebow right? With all that is on Vick's plate, you REALLY think he has Tebow on his mind?


I am sure when Tebow beat Vick's 3 cone and vertical leap at 240 lbs I am sure Vick ignored that too..

I'm actually pretty positive Vick didn't pay attention to this... it's crazy that you think that Vick actually paid attention to Tebow's 3 cone and vertical leap numbers, when it doesn't really affect or change anything that Vick does...

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 01:05 PM
Wait, wut?

No, what you are saying is that some high school kid did a dunk that got on youtube and then Clyde Drexler tried to mimic that high school kid.

No, but MJ was a younger player.. does it only count if it is in the same league..

What you are saying makes no sense.. it's just that a situation like Tebow is incredibly rare.. so of course it isn't going to happen much.

and I think you would have to be crazy to think Kobe wasn't emulating LeBron when he was coming up.. Kobe never tried to be a passer before Bron came along..

And Kobe couldn't emulate Bron's athleticism..

PTC
02-04-2011, 01:08 PM
No, but MJ was a younger player.. does it only count if it is in the same league..

What you are saying makes no sense.. it's just that a situation like Tebow is incredibly rare.. so of course it isn't going to happen much.

and I think you would have to be crazy to think Kobe wasn't emulating LeBron when he was coming up.. Kobe never tried to be a passer before Bron came along..

And Kobe couldn't emulate Bron's athleticism..

Your parents did a pretty horrible job at raising you.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 01:08 PM
ummmm, thats a dunk competition....its a one-up-manship type show

if you think Vick cares in the slightest bit about Tebow's cone drill time, you are OUT OF YOUR MIND

please don't take this the wrong way, but how old are you? that's a serious question, not a jab or anything

when i was younger i would have thought that this type of mentality exists in pro sports but it doesnt

You realize you have made zero argument here.. right? Maybe you should get back to me when you actually have a rationale..

Yes.. athletes aren;'t competitive.. what was I thinking..

BigBen's own freaking coach said he looked like Tebow.. how did Ben's coach know this if he doesn't pay attention to college football.. LOL Wow..

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 01:11 PM
Yeah, that's it.....nice try fanboy

Only a real fanboy would be concerned about looking like a fanboy.. that's precisely why I'm not and you are...

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 01:11 PM
Your parents did a pretty horrible job at raising you.

You have that backwards..

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 01:12 PM
You realize you have made zero argument here.. right? Maybe you should get back to me when you actually have a rationale..

Yes.. athletes aren;'t competitive.. what was I thinking..

BigBen's own freaking coach said he looked like Tebow.. how did Ben's coach know this if he doesn't pay attention to college football.. LOL Wow..

you came on here and tried to say that professional athletes were changing their games to emulate a college player, who many said would never be an impact player in the NFL

your argument, although entertaining is completely ridiculous....when I was younger I thought professional athletes were different than how they really are...you think Donovan McNabb is going to sit around with a notepad this weekend and take notes on Big Ben and then come back next year nad try to play like him?

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 01:13 PM
No, but MJ was a younger player.. does it only count if it is in the same league..

Yes, it only counts if its at the highest level of competition, and Drexler and Jordan were on the same level of competition at the time, so it's not even comparable.

BTW, Drexler is less than a year older than Jordan.

What you are saying makes no sense.. it's just that a situation like Tebow is incredibly rare.. so of course it isn't going to happen much.

A multi-faceted quarterback dominating the college game is rare? You've been caught up in the hyperbole, my man.

and I think you would have to be crazy to think Kobe wasn't emulating LeBron when he was coming up.. Kobe never tried to be a passer before Bron came along..

And Kobe couldn't emulate Bron's athleticism..

How old are you?

PTC
02-04-2011, 01:14 PM
You have that backwards..

IF we were basing this idea off of data, this thread would indicate that I don't have it backwards.

But we all know you you have no idea what data and proof means to a statement/argument.