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Kaylore
02-04-2011, 02:15 PM
You have that backwards..

You did a bad job of raising your parents?

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 02:16 PM
Wait, wut?

No, what you are saying is that some high school kid did a dunk that got on youtube and then Clyde Drexler tried to mimic that high school kid.

No, what I am saying is that people saw Tebow revolutionize the QB position in college and do something in the toughest conference in college football that people thought couldn't be done.. and they tried to do the same in the NFL..

I saw it first hand.. i see it happening still today. Cam Newton said repeatedly he was mimicking Tebow.. I saw Chase Daniel do the same thing in college.. and failed miserably..

When a player does something new and is as successful with it as Tebow was you would have to be a fool to think others aren't going to try to do the same thing.

David Garrard also mimics Tebow.. and they even run the option at Jacksonville.. you think fans wanting Tebow to replace Garrard had nothing to do with that?

Come on man.. WAKE UP.

MplsBronco
02-04-2011, 02:17 PM
He's killing me how? That's my impression of Tebow. It's valid, and it's shared by a lot of people. It's not based on any one thing, but a lot of little things picked up in interviews, documentary pieces, etc. It's not even that big of a criticism. If you don't think he's Mr. Perfect, you're a hater. Whatever.

Sounds like you are jealous.

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 02:18 PM
No, what I am saying is that Tebow revolutionize the QB in college and did something in the toughest conference in college football that people thought couldn't be done.. and tried to do the same in the NFL..

I saw it first hand.. i see it happening still today. Cam Newton said repeatedly he was mimicking Tebow.. I saw Chase Daniel do the same thing in college.. and failed miserably..

When a player does something new and is as successful with it as Tebow was you would have to be a fool to think others aren't going to try to o the same thing.

David Garrard also mimics Tebow.. and they even run the option at Jacksonville.. you think fans wanting Tebow to replace Garrard had nothing to do with that?

Come on man.. WAKE UP.

You do realize that the quarterback draw was made up in, like, the 1920s with the Veer offense, right?

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 02:20 PM
I will never forget this thread

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 02:20 PM
Only a real fanboy would be concerned about looking like a fanboy.. that's precisely why I'm not and you are...

Are what? A Tebow fanboy? You've got to be kidding me....

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 02:21 PM
And I meant single-wing, fwiw.

Kaylore
02-04-2011, 02:21 PM
I will never forget this thread

Remember where you were today...

http://cdn.wg.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/billy-mays-never-forget.jpg

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 02:23 PM
Yes, it only counts if its at the highest level of competition, and Drexler and Jordan were on the same level of competition at the time, so it's not even comparable.

You forgot to provide any rationale for your statement.. probably because there is none..

This whole argument is so preposterous anyway.. ahtletes are always stealing moves from each other.. street ballers devise many of the moves NBA players use.. this is just absurd.

BTW, Drexler is less than a year older than Jordan.

Doesn't matter.. he's still younger.. so Glyde would just completely ignore him..

A multi-faceted quarterback dominating the college game is rare? You've been caught up in the hyperbole, my man.

When was the last time a QB ran between the tackles consistently and could pass as well as Tebow.. especially in the SEC.. which is where the bulk of NFL players come from.. Tebow broke Herschel Walkers TD record as a QB.. and set efficiency record passing the ball.. and accounted for more of his offense than anyone..

You are just showing how clueless you are about Tebow and football. Just like the media and many NFL critics... great company your in..



How old are you?

I'm big enough to give you spanking.. that's for sure.. LOL

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 02:24 PM
Are what? A Tebow fanboy? You've got to be kidding me....

I don't know what kind of fanboy you are but it's clear you are.. otherwise you wouldn't be upset by me stating simple facts here.. What other reason could there be?

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 02:26 PM
You do realize that the quarterback draw was made up in, like, the 1920s with the Veer offense, right?

You are really good at being obtuse.. got any other tricks?

Tebow broke Herschel Walkers SEC rushing record as a QB... in the toughest defensive era in college football history..

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 02:26 PM
You forgot to provide any rationale for your statement.. probably because there is none..

This whole argument is so preposterous anyway.. ahtletes are always stealing moves from each other.. street ballers devise many of the moves NBA players use.. this is just absurd.



Doesn't matter.. he's still younger.. so Glyde would just completely ignore him..



When was the last time a QB ran between the tackles consistently and could pass as well as Tebow.. especially in the SEC.. which is where the bulk of NFL players come from.. Tebow broke Herschel Walkers TD record as a QB.. and set efficiency record passing the ball.. and accounted for more of his offense than anyone..

You are just showing how clueless you are about Tebow and football. Just like the media and many NFL critics... great company your in..





I'm big enough to give you spanking.. that's for sure.. LOL

Here's a guy emulating Tim Tebow:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ja69mTbL388" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 02:26 PM
This has nothing to do with anything, but isn't the SNL character MacGruber with a "b" or is the SN completely unrelated?

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 02:27 PM
I don't know what kind of fanboy you are but it's clear you are.. otherwise you wouldn't be upset by me stating simple facts here.. What other reason could there be?

you are soooo far away from stating simple facts....you are making bombastic claims that at every bar in America would have you laughed at then ignored because theyre so ridiculous

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 02:28 PM
You did a bad job of raising your parents?

You almost got it.. keep working at it..

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 02:28 PM
You are really good at being obtuse.. got any other tricks?

Tebow broke Herschel Walkers SEC rushing record as a QB... in the toughest defensive era in college football history..

nobody is denying his college credentials

HAT
02-04-2011, 02:28 PM
MacG, Just out of curiosity....Were you a Bronco fan prior to last April?

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 02:28 PM
I don't know what kind of fanboy you are but it's clear you are.. otherwise you wouldn't be upset by me stating simple facts here.. What other reason could there be?

Simple facts? You're wayyyy overboard on the guy. I haven't see hero worship this extreme and sickening since Tsi's love for Brandon Marshall before he blew up in TC and started kicking footballs around.

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 02:29 PM
You are really good at being obtuse.. got any other tricks?

Tebow broke Herschel Walkers SEC rushing record as a QB... in the toughest defensive era in college football history..

Rushing Touchdown Record. Not rushing yards. Let's make that distinction.

This is the toughest defensive era in college football history?

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 02:29 PM
MacG, Just out of curiosity....Were you a Bronco fan prior to last April?

He reeks of Gator.........

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 02:31 PM
you came on here and tried to say that professional athletes were changing their games to emulate a college player, who many said would never be an impact player in the NFL

your argument, although entertaining is completely ridiculous....when I was younger I thought professional athletes were different than how they really are...you think Donovan McNabb is going to sit around with a notepad this weekend and take notes on Big Ben and then come back next year nad try to play like him?

Youa re assuming that everyone is dumb enough to believe the critics.. Jon Gruden said Tebow would revolutionize the NFL.. Steve Young said he same thing..

So what do you have to say now? LOL

You think a guy like BigBen didn't see that coming? Especially because he played a similar style but to a far lesser degree than Tebow?

It amazes me how little people understand sports.. and then to act condescending on top of your stupidity.. unbelievable..

All truth goes through 3 phases

1st it is ridiculed
2nd it is violently opposed
3rd it is accepted as self evident..

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 02:33 PM
Youa re asusming that everyone is dumb enough to belive the critics.. Jon Gruden said Tebow would revolutionize the NFL.. Steve Young said he same thing..

So what do you have to say now? LOL

OK. Wow.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 02:35 PM
Youa re asusming that everyone is dumb enough to belive the critics.. Jon Gruden said Tebow would revolutionize the NFL.. Steve Young said he same thing..

So what do you have to say now? LOL

You think a guy like BigBen didn't see that coming? Especially because he played a similar style but to a far lesser degree than Tebow?

It amazes me how little people understand sports.. and then to act condescending on top of your stupidity.. unbelievable..

All truth goes through 3 phases

1st it is ridiculed
2nd it is violently opposed
3rd it is accepted as self evident..

what the **** are you smoking, kid?

I love me some Tebow...but you come in here and tell us that professional athletes were emulating a guy in college who was considered a "project" on the NFL level....that is asinine

your statements and arguments in this thread have "revolutionized" the way I think about morons

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 02:41 PM
what the **** are you smoking, kid?

I love me some Tebow...but you come in here and tell us that professional athletes were emulating a guy in college who was considered a "project" on the NFL level....that is asinine

your statements and arguments in this thread have "revolutionized" the way I think about morons

So then why was he drafted i n the first round by a guy who knows QBs as wel as anyone?

Why did Gruden and Steve Young say tebow would revolutionize the NFL..

You are beyond stupid.. LOL

Even an idiot can see reason when it's explained enough...

Bill Bellichick said the same thing about Tebow.. Lou Holtz and Dungy said they would take Tebow with their number one pick in the draft...

The worst flaw in your logic though is that you don't realize no one EVER played like Tebow in the modern era of football while in college at his level.. so these people that you claim are superior to Tebow in the NFL COULDN'T or DIDN'T do what he did while in college..

If you had any brain at all you would understand why your logic is non existent..

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 02:45 PM
So then why was he drafted i n the first round by a guy who knows QBs as wel as anyone?

Why did Gruden and Steve Young say tebow would revolutionize the NFL..

You are beyond stupid.. LOL

Even an idiot can see reason when it's explained enough...

Bill Bellichick said the same thing about Tebow.. Lou Holtz and Dungy said they would take Tebow with their number one pick in the draft...

The worst flaw in your logic though is that you don't realize no one EVER played like Tebow in the modern era of football while in college at his level.. so these people that you claim are superior to Tebow in the NFL COULDN'T or DIDN'T do what he did while in college..

If you had any brain at all you would understand why your logic is non existent..

once again....COLLEGE...

i hope he turns into a GREAT...ALL-TIME GREAT QB

but you are acting like the whole world is waiting to see what he's going to do at the NFL level....

NEWSFLASH: nobody outside of Denver fans even has him on their radar right now

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 02:50 PM
once again....COLLEGE...

i hope he turns into a GREAT...ALL-TIME GREAT QB

but you are acting like the whole world is waiting to see what he's going to do at the NFL level....

NEWSFLASH: nobody outside of Denver fans even has him on their radar right now



Tim Tebow started Denver’s final three games and finished with the highest passer rating (82.1) among the eight NFL rookies that opened a game in 2010, while registering the most rushing yards (199) over a quarterback’s first three starts since the 1970 merger.

Gruden and Steve Young said Tebow would revolutionize he NFL. He also has the top selling NFL jersey..

Wake up..

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 02:51 PM
Gruden and Steve Young said Tebow would revolutionize he NFL. He also has the top selling NFL jersey..

Wake up..

Are you really using this as proof that Tebow is the greatest quarterback who ever lived?

lostknight
02-04-2011, 02:52 PM
NEWSFLASH: nobody outside of Denver fans even has him on their radar right now

Which is why Montana was talking about him yesterday ;-)

You know, Montana, the second greatest QB of all time?

Oh, and the first greatest QB of all time is doing lots of talking as well.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 02:55 PM
OK. Wow.

I agree.. WOW

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:00 PM
Which is why Montana was talking about him yesterday ;-)

You know, Montana, the second greatest QB of all time?

Oh, and the first greatest QB of all time is doing lots of talking as well.

What did he say?

lostknight
02-04-2011, 03:11 PM
What did he say?

Montana thought "he would make it."

Tim's controversial. But his game will either translate, or it won't. All the early signs are on will. If Kyle goes in thinking that he owns the starting position. If he continues not to talk to John Elway (John said this morning that he hasn't talked to Kyle). If Kyle continues to do whatever he has done most off-seasons that led to him coming in out of shape, he will be in for a shock.

Cause Tebow's out is there.

baja
02-04-2011, 03:11 PM
What did he say?

He asid Tebow has a long way to go to be a good QB and that right now Orton was ahead of him.

Houshyamama
02-04-2011, 03:12 PM
What did he say?

Tebow loves Jesus and runs with a Hell Fire wake. An exorcism has been scheduled to rid him of his funky release.

bowtown
02-04-2011, 03:14 PM
No, what I am saying is that people saw Tebow revolutionize the QB position in college and do something in the toughest conference in college football that people thought couldn't be done.. and they tried to do the same in the NFL..

I saw it first hand.. i see it happening still today. Cam Newton said repeatedly he was mimicking Tebow.. I saw Chase Daniel do the same thing in college.. and failed miserably..

When a player does something new and is as successful with it as Tebow was you would have to be a fool to think others aren't going to try to do the same thing.

David Garrard also mimics Tebow.. and they even run the option at Jacksonville.. you think fans wanting Tebow to replace Garrard had nothing to do with that?

Come on man.. WAKE UP.

Who are you? Casino? BF7? Rasta? Out with it.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 03:17 PM
Which is why Montana was talking about him yesterday ;-)

You know, Montana, the second greatest QB of all time?

Oh, and the first greatest QB of all time is doing lots of talking as well.

the same Montana who does ShapeUp commercials? who doesnt do a lot of analyzing football

so what? people talk about him, but it doesnt mean other NFL players are EMULATING HIM!

HAT
02-04-2011, 03:20 PM
MacG, Just out of curiosity....Were you a Bronco fan prior to last April?

???

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:20 PM
Montana thought "he would make it."

Tim's controversial. But his game will either translate, or it won't. All the early signs are on will. I hope Kyle goes in thinking that he owns the starting position. I hope that he continues not to talk to John Elway (John said this morning that he hasn't talked to Kyle). I hope Kyle continues to do whatever he has done most recent off-seasons that led to him coming in out of shape.

Cause Tebow's out is there.

I actually don't think it's a question of if Tebow will make it but "when"

I think his passing is totally underrated. Tebow's real issues are just that he has bad habits.. but those bad habits were created by a dearth of talent and a desire to win at all cost.

Plus.. he has so much pressure on him he can't make mistakes normal QBs can. Because when he does it it's an indictment of his ability.. rather than just a learning curve like everyone else. So it's like a vicious cycle.. he can never change his style of play because he always has to prove himself.

bowtown
02-04-2011, 03:22 PM
???

Gotta be a Gator transplant.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:23 PM
???

A Brocno fan?

You mean like a bronco fanboy?

LOL

Funny how it's a good thing to be a bronco fanboy but not to be a player fanboy..

Especially since I am neither... and then people question MY maturity.. LOL

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:24 PM
Gotta be a Gator transplant.

Is it that obvious? Because I actually KNOW what I am talking about? LOL

BroncoInferno
02-04-2011, 03:26 PM
Tebow's real issues are just that he has bad habits.. but those bad habits were created by a dearth of talent and a desire to win at all cost.

Huh? A dearth of talent at Florida? Whatever you say, buddy :puff:

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:26 PM
the same Montana who does ShapeUp commercials? who doesnt do a lot of analyzing football

so what? people talk about him, but it doesnt mean other NFL players are EMULATING HIM!

So when someone says something good about Tebow they are clueless.. even when it's a legend.. but when a dimwit like Kiper, McShay or Cowhard says something it's gospel?

And again.. why wouldn't players emulate someone who is said to revolutionize the game, by people who really know the game?

HAT
02-04-2011, 03:29 PM
A Brocno fan?

You mean like a bronco fanboy?

LOL

Funny how it's a good thing to be a bronco fanboy but not to be a player fanboy..

Especially since I am neither... and then people question MY maturity.. LOL


So it's not that you're just a post Tebow Bronco fan but you're not even a Bronco fan at all?

And you have over 100 posts on a Broncos discussion board? Awesome. :tebow::tebow::tebow:

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:30 PM
Huh? A dearth of talent at Florida? Whatever you say, buddy :puff:

Yes, Florida had no runners around him.. this is why they let Cam Newton go.. because without Auburn's power run game Cam would have been completely exposed.

This is also why florida couldn't play Tebow under center successfully.. so he could never develop those skills at UF.

Good SEC runners don't want to play in a spread attack for the same reason Tebow is getting knocked..

broncocalijohn
02-04-2011, 03:31 PM
Word on the light rail is that Orton caught Tebow hitting on his wife.

Word on the light rail is that Orton caught his wife hitting on Tebow.



Fixed it.


:Broncos:



Word on the light rail is that Orton caught McDaniels' wife hitting on Tebow.


Wrong on both accounts.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:31 PM
So it's not that you're just a post Tebow Bronco fan but you're not even a Bronco fan at all?

And you have over 100 posts on a Broncos discussion board? Awesome. :tebow::tebow::tebow:

So you have to be a Bronco fanboy to follow Bronco football? So are Broncos fans just born somewhere whole? Fully formed fanboys? Or is it an instant conversion? Or is there some kind of brainwashing program involved that takes several years?

bowtown
02-04-2011, 03:32 PM
Is it that obvious? Because I actually KNOW what I am talking about? LOL

No because you don't know anything about the Broncos or really the entire of profootball for that matter. And what apparently you do KNOW is how much weight Tebow's testicals can suspend, as your swinging is no doubt pushing them to the limit.

HAT
02-04-2011, 03:41 PM
Or is there some kind of brainwashing program involved that takes several years?

This ^

rmsanger
02-04-2011, 03:44 PM
Man when Broncos fans are done with a player they are really done with him... I thought Orton exceeded all expectations in Denver with his play. He's not a worldbeater but nobody ever expected him to be. Essentially he was fodder thrown in to sweeten the JC deal so any productivity we received from him was a bonus. We could have had Brady freaking Quinn starting for us in his stead.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:45 PM
No because you don't know anything about the Broncos or really the entire of profootball for that matter. And what apparently you do KNOW is how much weight Tebow's testicals can suspend, as your swinging is no doubt pushing them to the limit.

Sounds like someone else talking about something they have no clue about.. like the Broncos fans here who know nothing about Tebow.

And it isn't as if there is a lot to know about th Broncos.. they aren't exactly revolutionizing ANYTHING at the moment except stinking. It's a little tougher to understand Tebow especially for the average NFL fans who are unable to think outside of the box.


That anyone would spend their time watching the Broncos rather than a once in a lifetime player like Tebow says it all.. that's not exactly something to be proud of.. LOL

It's like being an expert on the movie Biodome and thinking Paulie Shore is the best actor ever.. and I am trying to explain Citizen Kane to you because you hadn't seen it and can't possibly understand it..

lostknight
02-04-2011, 03:46 PM
I think his passing is totally underrated. Tebow's real issues are just that he has bad habits.. but those bad habits were created by a dearth of talent and a desire to win at all cost.


Ooh. I really don't know about that. Tim is plenty talented, and he had plenty talented weapons around him. Hernandez in New Englad? His favorite target last year. Before that, a guy by the name of Percy Harvin.

Yes, part of the reason thoose guys looked as good as they did is because of Tebow, but they are elite talent themselves.

Tebow's bad habits came from the act that he is so stupidly talented, he hasn't had to be perfect.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:47 PM
This ^

So when are they allowed on the site here? Do you get some kind of license or something?

jhns
02-04-2011, 03:47 PM
No because you don't know anything about the Broncos or really the entire of profootball for that matter. And what apparently you do KNOW is how much weight Tebow's testicals can suspend, as your swinging is no doubt pushing them to the limit.

I don't know about that. There have been a lot of us swinging from his nuts for a long time. I doubt this fatty is really pushing it to the limit. Tebow can handle a at least a few more people.


Tebow >>>>>> Orton

Tebow is the savior.

Deal with it.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:49 PM
Ooh. I really don't know about that. Tim is plenty talented, and he had plenty talented weapons around him. Hernandez in New Englad? His favorite target last year. Before that, a guy by the name of Percy Harvin.

Yes, part of the reason thoose guys looked as good as they did is because of Tebow, but they are elite talent themselves.

Tebow's bad habits came from the act that he is so stupidly talented, he hasn't had to be perfect.

I just meant running talent.. you can't dominate the SEC like Tebow did without a solid run game. Percy was a finesse runner. We saw what happened to UF's offense without Tebow's between the tackles running anchoring it.

lostknight
02-04-2011, 03:50 PM
Tebow's passing is around NFL average right now. He has a lot of room to go before he hits his ceiling. His footwork, as shaky as it is at times, can be absolutely spectacular. He moves in the pocket far better then Orton did.

I was dead-set against starting Tebow last year. They did, and the genie is out of the bottle. I think it's pretty clear that not having a real QB coach hurt Tebow a lot. McDaniels only had time to focus on one QB this year, and it was Orton (as it should be). I'm hoping that since we have someone more qualified then the coaches little brother, we will see some improvement in the area he needs help with - short to intermediate passes.

lostknight
02-04-2011, 03:52 PM
Yes, Florida had no runners around him.. this is why they let Cam Newton go.. because without Auburn's power run game Cam would have been completely exposed.

Cam Newton left because he was about to get expelled.


This is also why florida couldn't play Tebow under center successfully.. so he could never develop those skills at UF.

The spread works better with QB's that can improvise. It's a better system for Tebow in general.

HAT
02-04-2011, 03:54 PM
So when are they allowed on the site here? Do you get some kind of license or something?

Everybody's allowed....Even fat slob Chiefs fans.

I just like to know who I'm dealing with.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:55 PM
Tebow's passing is around NFL average right now. He has a lot of room to go before he hits his ceiling. His footwork, as shaky as it is at times, can be absolutely spectacular. He moves in the pocket far better then Orton did.

I was dead-set against starting Tebow last year. They did, and the genie is out of the bottle. I think it's pretty clear that not having a real QB coach hurt Tebow a lot. McDaniels only had time to focus on one QB this year, and it was Orton (as it should be). I'm hoping that since we have someone more qualified then the coaches little brother, we will see some improvement in the area he needs help with - short to intermediate passes.

I agree 100%.. I thought Tebow's passing was as good as any elite passer in college when he was there. He just needs to get comfortable in a NFL offense.

Also, his skills are reversed from the norm.. most QBs now are very polished with short passes.. Tebow is the opposite. He is best with longer passes. I think this is why he gets such a bad rap.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 03:57 PM
Everybody's allowed....Even fat slob Chiefs fans.

I just like to know who I'm dealing with.

So you can stereotype them?

Just to let you know.. I was never a Florida fan.. or a college football fan.. and I'm not religious.. So keep that in mind when you categorize me..

broncocalijohn
02-04-2011, 03:59 PM
So when are they allowed on the site here? Do you get some kind of license or something?

seems you were better understood when you crawled out and told us about aliens.

bowtown
02-04-2011, 03:59 PM
I don't know about that. There have been a lot of us swinging from his nuts for a long time. I doubt this fatty is really pushing it to the limit. Tebow can handle a at least a few more people.


Tebow >>>>>> Orton

Tebow is the savior.

Deal with it.

There is appreciating Tebow's potential and hoping--knowing--he is the real deal, and then just saying ridiculous stuff that has no bearing on anything and is based on nothing. I realize that is also something that you often struggle with, so it doesn't surprise me that you are unable to see it in this case.

BTW: I have dealt with Tebow being our QB long ago and being a better solution than Orton for this team. I just hope he ends up as good as so many seem to think he will. I don't entirely see it yet. I do see the potential though.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 04:06 PM
Sounds like someone else talking about something they have no clue about.. like the Broncos fans here who know nothing about Tebow.

And it isn't as if there is a lot to know about th Broncos.. they aren't exactly revolutionizing ANYTHING at the moment except stinking. It's a little tougher to understand Tebow especially for the average NFL fans who are unable to think outside of the box.


That anyone would spend their time watching the Broncos rather than a once in a lifetime player like Tebow says it all.. that's not exactly something to be proud of.. LOL

It's like being an expert on the movie Biodome and thinking Paulie Shore is the best actor ever.. and I am trying to explain Citizen Kane to you because you hadn't seen it and can't possibly understand it..


Didnt the Gators just sign the #1 QB prospect in the nation? Shouldnt you be on the UF message board talking about how the college QBs have been emulating him for the last 4 years

clown...
shoe

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 04:07 PM
seems you were better understood when you crawled out and told us about aliens.

You have it backwards.. the aliens are just a cover.. and that thread certainly demonstrates how close minded and ignorant people can be.. almost as much as this one.

I've got vision while the rest of the world wears bifocals..

Typical homer cheapshot as well...

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 04:09 PM
Didnt the Gators just sign the #1 QB prospect in the nation? Shouldnt you be on the UF message board talking about how the college QBs have been emulating him for the last 4 years

clown...
shoe

Yeah.. I am sure everyone knows a highschool QBs name like a college QB who has revolutionized the game.. the only reason this cat was the number one recruit is because the idiot critics saw what Tebow did so they think any running QB can do the same now..

Just shows you how stupid the talking heads are once again..

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 04:16 PM
Cam Newton left because he was about to get expelled.

That is revisionist history propagated by the Newton family. There is an article where Newton's father stated Cam was leaving because he couldn't beat Brantley out for the backup position behind Tebow.

Flordia ran too much of a pass heavy offense. Cam couldn't run it.. and without that and the lack of runners around him he'd have gotten KILLED trying to do what Tebow did. Newton is not anywhere near Tebow's level... not yet anyway. Everything people said about Tebow was false and actually true about Cam. It's bizarre it is backwards.. Cam's weaknesses were hidden by the perfect team to complement him. Tebow would have actually been OVERRATED on that team. Auburn is actually built more for the SEC than Florida.. because they have a power run game. That is why UF never beat Auburn when Tebow was there..

But Cam is also going to struggle passing much more than Tebow for this reason. He didn't get that pass experience Tebow did at UF.


The spread works better with QB's that can improvise. It's a better system for Tebow in general.

True.. but Tebow mainly came back his senior year to work on his under center play.. but Meyer said repeatedly they didn't have good between the tackles runners to allow that. Not if they wanted to win a championship anyway.

vancejohnson82
02-04-2011, 04:16 PM
Yeah.. I am sure everyone knows a highschool QBs name like a college QB who has revolutionized the game.. the only reason this cat was the number one recruit is because the idiot critics saw what Tebow did so they think any running QB can do the same now..

Just shows you how stupid the talking heads are once again..

hahahaha....my God (Tebow)....everything comes back to him! He was a GREAT college player. In the discussion for the GREATEST. I LOVE that he's a Bronco, as a lot of us do. HOwever, I've never come into contact with a Tebowite until right now, and its actually frightening

how will you ever enjoy football at Florida again? how will you ever enjoy football once he retires?

the game has been "revolutionized" time and time again, position by position. It has happened and will happen again.

Lawrence Taylor did it at outside linebacker, Vick made us rethink the QB position...hell, even Kordell Stewart had us wondering what we could do with a "slash" player

The west coast offense, the wildcat, the run and shoot, the Peyton Manning "no huddle", the Tampa 2, etc, etc, etc

the game is constantly evolving....evolve with it...Tebow is a part of the game, not THE game

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 04:23 PM
the game is constantly evolving....evolve with it...Tebow is a part of the game, not THE game

Are you saying there is no "greatest"?

Michael Jordan was just a passing fancy?

What if Tebow were to win several championships playing his style? Then what would you say? What if he dominates the NFL like he did in college? Then what will you say?

razorwire77
02-04-2011, 04:36 PM
Honestly, whether or not Orton and Tebow like each other is entirely irrelevant to the franchise at this point. Baring some sort of bizarre scenario, Orton is going to get traded for a 3rd or 4th rounder and a ham sandwich, and Tebow will start next year, regardless of Elway trying to drive up Orton's trade value. If Tim is everything we hope he is and continues to flash the potential he did last season, than we will be on the right path to rebuilding the franchise. If he's not, we'll probably be picking top 5 in 2012 and snag another QB.

PRBronco
02-04-2011, 04:38 PM
This thread needs moar McGruder imo.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 04:43 PM
This thread needs moar McGruder imo.

Isn't it fun to say "MacGruder"?

gunns
02-04-2011, 04:43 PM
the only reason this cat was the number one recruit is

Dad, is that you?

lostknight
02-04-2011, 04:44 PM
All this makes me wonder why the hell Orton signed the extension. If he were a free and clear Free Agent, he would be talking a 3-4 year 30-40 million dollar contract with some team.

PRBronco
02-04-2011, 04:46 PM
Isn't it fun to say "MacGruder"?

I sing it like the MacGruber song, and pretend there's an explosion while I say it.

epicSocialism4tw
02-04-2011, 04:47 PM
This is exactly where I am at. I think Kyle Orton is very similar to a guy like Dilfer. You put a solid team around him and a 4th Quarter lead and he'll win some games. Put him down by 7 and count on him to bring you back and you're left with a 4-12 type team. Orton is just not athletic enough to be a stud QB...

I hope his comments toward Tebow aren't as harsh as what the news guys are reporting. Can't imagine how difficult that would be on all of the players if both Tebow and Orton are here next year.

Scott Hastings went on to say yesterday that he compares a guy like Tebow to Afflalo from the Nuggets. Above average athletically but gives more effort than anyone on the court which makes his value sky rocket. Tim Tebow will never be a Peyton Manning or Drew Brees type passer, but he could very well turn into a QB that wins games ugly. I've never been super impressed with Ben Rothlisberger as a pure passer, but he wins games and makes plays. I think that is what Tebow is... or will be.

Tebow is pretty much a freak athlete. He's not just above average. Look at what he did at the scouting combine.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 05:03 PM
I sing it like the MacGruber song, and pretend there's an explosion while I say it.

That's EXACTLY how you are supposed to say it! That's how I say it.. :approve:

jhns
02-04-2011, 05:09 PM
All this makes me wonder why the hell Orton signed the extension. If he were a free and clear Free Agent, he would be talking a 3-4 year 30-40 million dollar contract with some team.

Because he would probably be the clear starter if McDaniels was still here.

24champ
02-04-2011, 05:09 PM
Did he seriously admit that on the radio? Transparancy is not always a good thing. Some things need to be taken care of in-house.

What is the rift between them? Orton just pissed he lost his starting job, or is it something more personal?

I don't really care about who the starting QB will be.

What's more alarming to me about this, is the fact John Elway would even comment on this. One day he is claiming Orton would be the starter today if the season started today. Next thing you know he comments on Tebow and Orton not liking each other, not knowing the full details behind that. Nor has he talked to Orton about it. It's a little strange to me to go public with that, and it only furthers my skepticism that Elway is the right Executive to rebuild the Broncos. He needs to shut up, IMO.

doonwise
02-04-2011, 05:11 PM
TEBORTON is tearing this team apart!

HAT
02-04-2011, 05:13 PM
So you can stereotype them?

Just to let you know.. I was never a Florida fan.. or a college football fan.. and I'm not religious.. So keep that in mind when you categorize me..

Precisely.

I have you in the non-Bronco fan troll category.

Chris
02-04-2011, 05:17 PM
This team is an ABORTON.

footstepsfrom#27
02-04-2011, 05:18 PM
Who cares if they like each other? Are they supposed to? They're competing for the same position. I doubt Tebow is the one with the problem here. Orton needs to be shipped somewhere for a #2 and then go after Matt Hasselbeck and see if he'd like to come here to replace Orton as the backup providing the price is right.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 05:22 PM
Precisely.

I have you in the non-Bronco fan troll category.

I'm a troll because I actually know something about Tebow and correct the people that don't for saying silly stuff?

Then I get trashed because I simply stated the truth and defend myself? Are you sure that makes me a troll?

montrose
02-04-2011, 05:31 PM
I like Kyle but everybody sees he comes across as insecure through this. The funny thing is, have we heard anything about Tim not liking Kyle? I haven't - even though from the first day of camp through the end of the season I saw Kyle helping Tim less than Jay helped Hanie in the NFCCG.

I see Kyle's side, he is in the prime of his career and I'm sure the last thing he wants to do is be mentoring what he preceives as the "class suckup" but at some point you've gotta realize that you had your shot here - and while the numbers were nice the team didn't win and you can't put it all on the defense because those 3-and-outs certainly didn't help an aging D.

What Kyle needs, IMO, is to go to a team with a bad QB situation and a good defense where he can solidify himself as "the guy" - something he hasn't had in his career. If he's paired with the right OC on the right team where he's not following a Cutler or being chased by a Tebow - he could have a nice career.

Overall, I'd probably be mad if I were Kyle too but at the end of the day you've got no one to blame but yourself. If he had played better the 2nd half 2009 (I know he was hurt) the team would've made the playoffs and who knows how things would've changed. But things went down the way they did and I personally think it's best for everyone that he's traded. Kyle can get a fresh start with a team that wants him, the Broncos get pick(s) they need and can begin moving forward with Tebow's development. This of course, if the CBA gets done sooner rather than later because if it's not done by the draft I imagine you'll see Kyle back on the roster - starting the 2011 opener. Just my guess.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 05:38 PM
What I don't understand though is why would any team want to invest in Orton when there is so much QB talent out there... Orton's limitations are obvious.. he isn't an NFL level athlete or playmaker.

He does have NFL level skill and is a veteran. But with so much great talent out there every year I just can't see why anyone would opt to go long term with Kyle.

Archer81
02-04-2011, 05:43 PM
What I don't understand though is why would any team want to invest in Orton when there is so much QB talent out there... Orton's limitations are obvious.. he isn't an NFL level athlete or playmaker.

He does have NFL level skill and is a veteran. But with so much great talent out there every year I just can't see why anyone would opt to go long term with Kyle.


You are contradicting yourself.

:Broncos:

Riley
02-04-2011, 05:44 PM
All this makes me wonder why the hell Orton signed the extension. If he were a free and clear Free Agent, he would be talking a 3-4 year 30-40 million dollar contract with some team.

He signed because he was making next to nothing...
he wanted score at least a few million right now...
and with the looming CBA problems it made sense to have a contract.

And ... in the case of a trade...
it is likely his new team will make a reworked contract a condition of the trade any way.

So the bottom line is...
it was the way for Kyle to get his hands on MILLIONS now(2010)...
knowing that it would be followed up with plenty more (one way or another) later.

I expect Kyle will make out like a bandit in the upcoming trade ...

The contract was good for the Broncos...
because it secured Ortons trade value....
be it a 2, 3 or 4 pick

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 05:56 PM
You are contradicting yourself.

:Broncos:

I don't think that is a contradiction.. you can have the skill level but not talent or athleticism. He knows what he needs to do and can do it some of the time.. he just can't do it when it matters most because of those other limitations.

Archer81
02-04-2011, 06:01 PM
I don't think that is a contradiction.. you can have the skill level but not talent or athleticism. He knows what he needs to do and can do it some of the time.. he just can't do it when it matters most because of those other limitations.


He either has the ability to play at an NFL level or he does not. He cannot be both at the same time.


:Broncos:

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 06:05 PM
I'm a troll because I actually know something about Tebow and correct the people that don't for saying silly stuff?

Then I get trashed because I simply stated the truth and defend myself? Are you sure that makes me a troll?

You're a personality cultist and a troll

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 06:07 PM
He either has the ability to play at an NFL level or he does not. He cannot be both at the same time.


:Broncos:

Yes.. he can.. because he was trained to be an NFL QB. He has the knowledge and training to do it for a time.. but he wears down physically and can't win games as well as other QBs he is facing all thing being equal. He's below average because of his lack of talent and physical ability.

It's like a guy like Josh McDaniel.. he had the skill to be a QB.. maybe even an NFL QB.. but he was even lower in the talent and athleticism areas than Orton.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 06:09 PM
You're a personality cultist and a troll

Saying that makes you a troll not me.

If what I am saying about Tebow makes me a PC? and a troll then half the people on these Broncos boards would be the same with John Elway..

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 06:11 PM
I'm a troll because I actually know something about Tebow and correct the people that don't for saying silly stuff?

Then I get trashed because I simply stated the truth and defend myself? Are you sure that makes me a troll?

Silly things?

Like claiming Tebow is the greatest quarterback ever because two ESPN analysts say he might "revolutionize" the game?

Or like claiming that he, himself revolutionized the college game?

How he is going to revolutionize the game is beyond me, because we've seen bigger quarterbacks than him, and better throwing quarterbacks than him and faster quarterbacks than him...oh, but he can jump as high as Josh McCown, therefore he MUST revolutionize the game...

I am a Tebow fan, but first I am a Bronco fan, and this hyperbole you've spilled all over this thread is truly unbelievable.

Hogan11
02-04-2011, 06:18 PM
Saying that makes you a troll not me.

If what I am saying about Tebow makes me a PC? and a troll then half the people on these Broncos boards would be the same with John Elway..

:lalalala:ZZZ...

Archer81
02-04-2011, 06:23 PM
Yes.. he can.. because he was trained to be an NFL QB. He has the knowledge and training to do it for a time.. but he wears down physically and can't win games as well as other QBs he is facing all thing being equal. He's below average because of his lack of talent and physical ability.

It's like a guy like Josh McDaniel.. he had the skill to be a QB.. maybe even an NFL QB.. but he was even lower in the talent and athleticism areas than Orton.


This is an asinine argument. You could argue his talent would make him the perfect backup, but still worthy of the NFL. If he has a "lack of talent" he would not have been drafted and would not be in the NFL. No matter how much "training" he receives.

:Broncos:

yerner
02-04-2011, 06:24 PM
I say they ship one to Minnesota and one to Jacksonville. Problem solved.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 06:28 PM
Silly things?

Like claiming Tebow is the greatest quarterback ever because two ESPN analysts say he might "revolutionize" the game?


That;s a hell of a straw man you made there.. that doesn't really resemble what was said..

Or like claiming that he, himself revolutionized the college game?

Wrong again.. I said he revolutionized the QB position. This if oft repeated about him.. it's not like I am the only one stating this.. and it's well supported.

So does that make you the troll?

How he is going to revolutionize the game is beyond me, because we've seen bigger quarterbacks

Have you seen stronger though? The power, agility and passing ability? And the courage and talent to use it?

I've never heard of them.. then you have all his other traits, too. We have never seen a QB with the measurables and intangibles he has. There had been plenty of athletic guards before and since Michael Jordan but there was only one MJ,,,

than him, and better throwing quarterbacks than him and faster quarterbacks than him...oh, but he can jump as high as Josh McCown, therefore he MUST revolutionize the game...

Again.. it;s the athleticcims mixed with his intangibles.. o yeah.. and Tebow has the PERFECT skill set to dominate as a QB.. he was one of the best short yardage runners ever.. AND one of the best long ball passers ever.. when you think about this it is an unguardable skillset in one QB.. It would be like a basketball team that has Shaq and in the post and surrounds him with the best three point shooters in the NBA so you can't double Shaq on the post. that is what Tebow provides himself if you have the right pieces around him -- receivers that can spread the field vertically.

People never realizzed that a player like Tebow could be the most dominant.. they assumed a guy who is ultra fast would be the best running QB.. but forget these guys will get injured if hit.. no one ever realized a slower durable runningback with great passing ability could be most dominant.. Tebow found out through sheer will.

I am a Tebow fan, but first I am a Bronco fan, and this hyperbole you've spilled all over this thread is truly unbelievable.

Oh right.. I forgot.. we are all supposed to come on message boards and have the same viewpoint and it's supposed to be the most conservative view imaginable. Even though I actually watched Tebow play his whole college career unlike the people claiming I'm wrong.. or spewing hyperbole..

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 06:32 PM
This is an asinine argument. You could argue his talent would make him the perfect backup, but still worthy of the NFL. If he has a "lack of talent" he would not have been drafted and would not be in the NFL. No matter how much "training" he receives.

:Broncos:

No, because many times you don't know until a player is in the NFL if they have that talent and Orton's skill and knowledge of the game made him overrated.. just like a player who has great physical abilities but lacks skill and intangibles can be overrated and bust in the NFL.

PTC
02-04-2011, 06:41 PM
What exactly qualifies someone to be an NFL athlete in this idiots fantasy land? By simple definition, if you're in the NFL, you're an NFL level athlete... is there some sort of 40 time you must run in order to be an "NFL level athlete"?

I guess Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Philip Rivers are all non NFL level athletes...

I'm pretty sure all kickers are non NFL level athletes too.

PTC
02-04-2011, 06:47 PM
Peyton Manning was like, damn I need to change my throwing motion after he saw Tebow.

http://news.sportsinteraction.com/files/2010/04/tim-tebow_w9b8.jpg

PTC
02-04-2011, 06:51 PM
And it's retarded that you're comparing Jordan to Tebow right now... Tebow may have some rings ahead for him, but Tebow has already fallen behind as far as career accomplishments.

Jordan won rookie of the year and set records while doing so...Tebow will never be able to do this. Ever.

Tebow's "athleticism and intangibles" had him as a 3rd QB behind Brady Quinn throughout TC.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 06:53 PM
What exactly qualifies someone to be an NFL athlete in this idiots fantasy land?

If he was an NFL level athlete at QB he would not have to curl up in the fetal position to allow him to finish games..

doe sit make you a NFL level ahtlete if you can't ever kick a field goal or a punt down the field or.. hell.. anyone can go in there and LOSE a game..

Talk about an idiot.. I can't believe I have to explain this LOL


By simple definition, if you're in the NFL, you're an NFL level athlete...

No.. it doesn't.. because it's not his athleticism keeping him in the NFL.. that's what I am telling you.. QB is one of the few positions.. maybe the ONLY position in which you can use your mind to allow you to be successful.. or IN the NFL... without his high skill level he COULDN'T make it in the NFL because of his lack of talent and athleticism.. thats the freaking poit I amde genius.. LMAO Wake up..

Just like there are pure athletes who wouldn't make it at QB because of their lack of skill..


is there some sort of 40 time you must run in order to be an "NFL level athlete"?

There's a fetal time.. it's prevented Orton from winning a game all season.. but his skill level saved him..

I guess Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Philip Rivers are all non NFL level athletes...

Peyton has an NFL body.. Brady does not.. luckily he has the best coach in the NFL to protect him with dominant Olines.. even then Brady can't stay healthy.. his skill AND talent and coach make him an elite QB in spite of his lack of an NFL body/athelticism.

Archer81
02-04-2011, 06:55 PM
No, because many times you don't know until a player is in the NFL if they have that talent and Orton's skill and knowledge of the game made him overrated.. just like a player who has great physical abilities but lacks skill and intangibles can be overrated and bust in the NFL.

...skill and talent are the SAME thing.

Say this sentence out loud.

Rod Smith has talent catching the football.

Rod Smith has skill catching the football.

Did the meaning of the sentence change?

Learn the ****ing meaning of words.

From Thesaurus.com...

Main Entry: talent
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: ability
Synonyms: a way with, aptitude, aptness, art, bent*, capability, capacity, craft, endowment, expertise, facility, faculty, flair, forte, genius, gift, green thumb, head*, inventiveness, knack*, know-how, nose*, power, savvy*, set, skill, smarts, the formula, the goods, the right stuff, thing*, turn*, what it takes

:Broncos:

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 06:58 PM
And it's retarded that you're comparing Jordan to Tebow right now... Tebow may have some rings ahead for him, but Tebow has already fallen behind as far as career accomplishments.

Jordan won rookie of the year and set records while doing so...Tebow will never be able to do this. Ever.

Tebow's "athleticism and intangibles" had him as a 3rd QB behind Brady Quinn throughout TC.

The QB position in the NFL is far more difficult to learn than a shooting guard..

If Jordan was a pass first point guard that might be a closer comparison,...

Michael Jordan only won one championship in 3 years of college unlike Tebow's 2 championships in 4 years.. I would say that trumps Jordan so maybe you are right.. Tebow might be better than Jordan..especially since one player normally has less of an impact in football than in basketball and Tebow still had a greater impact.

Jordan might be the more special athlete but Tebow might be more dominant because of his effect on the game.. like Bill Russel.. Or Shaq if he had better intangibles..

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 07:02 PM
...skill and talent are the SAME thing.

Say this sentence out loud.

Rod Smith has talent catching the football.

Rod Smith has skill catching the football.

Did the meaning of the sentence change?

Learn the ****ing meaning of words.

From Thesaurus.com...

Main Entry: talent
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: ability
Synonyms: a way with, aptitude, aptness, art, bent*, capability, capacity, craft, endowment, expertise, facility, faculty, flair, forte, genius, gift, green thumb, head*, inventiveness, knack*, know-how, nose*, power, savvy*, set, skill, smarts, the formula, the goods, the right stuff, thing*, turn*, what it takes

:Broncos:

Not the way I am using them they don't.. otherwise I wouldn't have used both words.. I am trying to differentiate the cerebral aspect of QBing from the talent playmaking ability of a QB..

These words may not be ideal but they should be good enough.. unless you are being obtuse of course.. then you can rely on semantics to troll someone no matter what..

Skills can be taught.. talents cannot.. this is why they call things intangibles.. all of these words can be used interchangeably.. talent can be used to describe athleticism too.. but when using all these words to differentiate different abilities they become distinct..

Please get a clue..

PTC
02-04-2011, 07:06 PM
If he was an NFL level athlete at QB he would not have to curl up in the fetal position to allow him to finish games..

doe sit make you a NFL level ahtlete if you can't ever kick a field goal or a punt down the field or.. hell.. anyone can go in there and LOSE a game..

Talk about an idiot.. I can't believe I have to explain this LOL


You still haven't told me what qualifies someone as an NFL athlete...and like I said, Brady, Manning, and Rivers have bricks strapped to their feet too.

talk about an idiot.


No.. it doesn't.. because it's not his athleticism keeping him in the NFL.. that's what I am telling you.. QB is one of the few positions.. maybe the ONLY position in which you can use your mind to allow you to be successful.. or IN the NFL... without his high skill level he COULDN'T make it in the NFL because of his lack of talent and athleticism.. thats the freaking poit I amde genius.. LMAO Wake up..

Just like there are pure athletes who wouldn't make it at QB because of their lack of skill..


QB is still a position in the NFL. Orton has to be able to throw the ball you know... and is he able to throw the ball accurate enough to be an NFL athlete? Yes.

You're right, though, he couldn't make in the NFL without his skill level... but who could?

Do you think any of the starting 32 QB's in the league other than Michael Vick have the build/athleticism to play any other position?

Peyton has an NFL body.. Brady does not.. luckily he has the best coach in the NFL to protect him with dominant Olines.. even then Brady can't stay healthy.. his skill AND talent and coach make him an elite QB in spite of his lack of an NFL body/athelticism.

What the hell is an NFL body? The dude is 6-4 225 pounds... and Manning is 6-5 230 pounds....???

Tom Brady throws a harder ball than Manning too.

An NFL level athlete would be someone who could play in the NFL, which is why you denote the "NFL" as a description of the type of athlete.

The QB IS a position in the NFL, just like a punter and kicker. If you are able to play at any position in the NFL, how are you not an NFL level athlete?

All positions require different physical traits from players... do you think Casey Hampton would be playing Safety if he weren't a fat ass?

Please, describe to me what an NFL level athlete is...

TDmvp
02-04-2011, 07:12 PM
You still haven't told me what qualifies someone as an NFL athlete...and like I said, Brady, Manning, and Rivers are bricks strapped to their feet too.

talk about an idiot.



QB is still a position in the NFL. Orton has to be able to throw the ball you know... and is he able to throw the ball accurate enough to be an NFL athlete? Yes.

You're right, though, he couldn't make in the NFL without his skill level... but who could?

Do you think any of the starting 32 QB's in the league other than Michael Vick have the build/athleticism to play any other position?



What the hell is an NFL body? The dude is 6-4 225 pounds... and Manning is 6-5 230 pounds....???

Tom Brady throws a harder ball than Manning too.

An NFL level athlete would be someone who could play in the NFL, which is why you denote the "NFL" as a description of the type of athlete.

The QB IS a position in the NFL, just like a punter and kicker. If you are able to play at any position in the NFL, how are you not an NFL level athlete?

All positions require different physical traits from players... do you think Casey Hampton would be playing Safety if he weren't a fat ass?

Please, describe to me what an NFL level athlete is...




MVPlaya right ?

epicSocialism4tw
02-04-2011, 07:14 PM
And it's retarded that you're comparing Jordan to Tebow right now... Tebow may have some rings ahead for him, but Tebow has already fallen behind as far as career accomplishments.

Jordan won rookie of the year and set records while doing so...Tebow will never be able to do this. Ever.

Tebow's "athleticism and intangibles" had him as a 3rd QB behind Brady Quinn throughout TC.

Kyle, is that you? Hilarious!

PTC
02-04-2011, 07:16 PM
The QB position in the NFL is far more difficult to learn than a shooting guard..

If Jordan was a pass first point guard that might be a closer comparison,...

Well this is one of the very reasons you shouldn't compare the two right now in the first place.

Being a pass first point guard has nothing to do with the comparison...

Jordan was 2nd in the league in scoring as a rookie...


Michael Jordan only won one championship in 3 years of college unlike Tebow's 2 championships in 4 years.. I would say that trumps Jordan so maybe you are right.. Tebow might be better than Jordan..especially since one player normally has less of an impact in football than in basketball and Tebow still had a greater impact.

I'm talking about Jordan as a professional, but this is a dead argument, Jordan wasn't one of the best college basketball players of all time to begin with...

I'm talking about Jordan as a professional athlete, and like I said he already accomplished things Tebow will never be able to do because Tebow's raw skill set did not allow him to be a starting NFL QB right away.


Jordan might be the more special athlete but Tebow might be more dominant because of his effect on the game.. like Bill Russel.. Or Shaq if he had better intangibles..

lol I don't really care for might or might not... Tebow has already fallen behind in Jordan in professional career accomplishments, and he'll never be able to get it back...

TDmvp
02-04-2011, 07:16 PM
Kyle, is that you? Hilarious!

Maybe , just maybe , Kyle is MVPLAYA !!!! .... That would explain everything.

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 07:16 PM
That;s a hell of a straw man you made there.. that doesn't really resemble what was said..



Wrong again.. I said he revolutionized the QB position. This if oft repeated about him.. it's not like I am the only one stating this.. and it's well supported.

So does that make you the troll?



Have you seen stronger though? The power, agility and passing ability? And the courage and talent to use it?

I've never heard of them.. then you have all his other traits, too. We have never seen a QB with the measurables and intangibles he has. There had been plenty of athletic guards before and since Michael Jordan but there was only one MJ,,,



Again.. it;s the athleticcims mixed with his intangibles.. o yeah.. and Tebow has the PERFECT skill set to dominate as a QB.. he was one of the best short yardage runners ever.. AND one of the best long ball passers ever.. when you think about this it is an unguardable skillset in one QB.. It would be like a basketball team that has Shaq and in the post and surrounds him with the best three point shooters in the NBA so you can't double Shaq on the post. that is what Tebow provides himself if you have the right pieces around him -- receivers that can spread the field vertically.

People never realizzed that a player like Tebow could be the most dominant.. they assumed a guy who is ultra fast would be the best running QB.. but forget these guys will get injured if hit.. no one ever realized a slower durable runningback with great passing ability could be most dominant.. Tebow found out through sheer will.



Oh right.. I forgot.. we are all supposed to come on message boards and have the same viewpoint and it's supposed to be the most conservative view imaginable. Even though I actually watched Tebow play his whole college career unlike the people claiming I'm wrong.. or spewing hyperbole..

My word. No matter how you etch it into your etch-a-sketch, Tebow is not a transcendent talent. He's a heck of an athlete. He did well in college. He is not transcendent. He is not the talent that Elway was, even. Hell, he's not even the talent (at quarterback) that Bradford, Stafford and Ryan are. He didn't even come close to revolutionizing the quarterback position, even in college.

Learn about Scott Frost and get back with us.

Hyperbole.

PTC
02-04-2011, 07:18 PM
MacGruder = MVPlaya

TDmvp
02-04-2011, 07:20 PM
MacGruder = MVPlaya

Hilarious! O , thank you heheh ... I actually thought that as well because Macgruder's post are so long much like mvplaya , but you kept saying everything was stupid/retarded and that's MVPlaya's MO....



Thanks for the clarification ... :O)

PTC
02-04-2011, 07:23 PM
Hilarious! O , thank you heheh ... I actually thought that as well because Macgruder's post are so long much like mvplaya , but you kept saying everything was stupid/retarded and that's MVPlaya's MO....



Thanks for the clarification ... :O)

I think the only times I said stupid or retarded was when I was mocking MacGruder... I might of said it once without mocking him though.

TDmvp
02-04-2011, 07:29 PM
I think the only times I said stupid or retarded was when I was mocking MacGruder... I might of said it once without mocking him though.

Yea now that I've read through most this thread maybe you are right and MacGruder is MVPlaya , MVP sucks at English and I'm not even a grammar Nazi I just find it funny that someone like MVPlaya who calls everyone / everything stupid has the IQ of dried poop and can't even write a complete sentence.

Bob's your Information Minister
02-04-2011, 07:30 PM
Cripple fight!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51OFIOygPaL._SX500_.jpg

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 07:31 PM
You still haven't told me what qualifies someone as an NFL athlete...and like I said, Brady, Manning, and Rivers are bricks strapped to their feet too.

These guys have stellar talent that Orton lacks.. Brady has a better arm.. Peyton is HUGE and can take MONSTER kits and still deliver the ball and not get injured unlike Orton. And these guys have even MORE skill than Orton.

The ONLY thing keeping Orton in the NFL is his stellar skill level.. the cerebral part of the game.. he has a decent arm.. but other than that he has ZERO ATHLETICISM.. and lacks the tlaent to improvise outside of the skills that can be taught like the best QBs..

QB is still a position in the NFL. Orton has to be able to throw the ball you know... and is he able to throw the ball accurate enough to be an NFL athlete? Yes.

He has a decent arm.. but that wouldn't be enough to allow him to survive because if his low talent level and weak athleticism if he wasn't so cerebral.. crafty figuring out how to get by without those other abilities..

You're right, though, he couldn't make in the NFL without his skill level... but who could?

There are guys who have so much athleticism and talent they can get by without the NFL QB skills Orton has.. Tebow is one of them.. he isn't used to a under center traditional pro offense bu is still better than Orton.. because he has so much ability..

Tebow is more likely to stay healthy running over linebackers than Orton is laying down in the fetal position on a futon mattress. Most NFL QBs have more athleticism and talent and maybe even not as much skills. Orton has elite level skills.

Do you think any of the starting 32 QB's in the league other than Michael Vick have the build/athleticism to play any other position?

I don't know.. but juts because you don't fit in the NFL doesn't mean you aren't a great athlete.. lots of olympic ahteltes couldn't fit in in the NFL.

Thats one thing people need to realize about Tebow.. they get so caught up with 40 time and arm strength they don't realize that Tebow might have the perfect skillset to make him dominant in the NFL.. and no one has ever realized that potential because they never had his incredibly unique combo of abilities..

What the hell is an NFL body? The dude is 6-4 225 pounds... and Manning is 6-5 230 pounds....

Manning looks bigger than that.. and he takes huge hits.. they had a video segment showing how he took hit after hit and still delivered passes perfectly.. Orton would be dead..

Saying he is 6'4 and 225 is like saying every tall guy could play in the NFL.. that's just not the case AT ALL.

Tom Brady throws a harder ball than Manning too.

Both guys have better arms than Orton..

An NFL level athlete would be someone who could play in the NFL, which is why you denote the "NFL" as a description of the type of athlete.

If you can't win are you an NFL athlete? If you have to lay down in the fetal position just to lose games.. are you an NFL athlete.. again.. NO.. Qb is a rare position. He only survives because of his skill.. mental approach.. that's all he's got. He has an OK arm.. but that doesn't make him an athlete either..

The QB IS a position in the NFL, just like a punter and kicker. If you are able to play at any position in the NFL, how are you not an NFL level athlete?

By some huge mistake that should be rectified.. and because a NFL QB can survive without true athleticism.. if they are skilled enough..

All positions require different physical traits from players...

Exactly.. and Orton doesn't have those requirements.. which is why he loses so much..

Please, describe to me what an NFL level athlete is...

It's different for each position.. When I said he wasn't an NFL athlete I meant at the QB position.. I thought that was obvious.. Sure.. he could be a kicker.. LOL

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 07:35 PM
MacGruder = MVPlaya

Nope. MVP wasn't very fond of Tim.

TDmvp
02-04-2011, 07:38 PM
Nope. MVP wasn't very fond of Tim.

True ...

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 07:41 PM
My word. No matter how you etch it into your etch-a-sketch, Tebow is not a transcendent talent. He's a heck of an athlete. He did well in college. He is not transcendent. He is not the talent that Elway was, even. Hell, he's not even the talent (at quarterback) that Bradford, Stafford and Ryan are. He didn't even come close to revolutionizing the quarterback position, even in college.

This is where you are wrong... you are making assumptions that aren't valid..

You assume that because Tebow plays a certain style that he is less talented than guys like Bradford or even Elway.. this is just dead wrong. The funny part though is that in your feeble mind you only think Tebow can be overrated.. yet Bradford and Elway can't be... why is that? That is what you need to come to terms with.. is it just because Tebow plays such a different style?

Juts answer me this.. if Tebow can't succeed then why was Alex Smith drafted number one overall?


Learn about Scott Frost and get back with us.

Hyperbole.

You need to learn to not assume the present is the same as the past.

What will be your excuse if Tebow wins multiple championships?

PTC
02-04-2011, 07:48 PM
You're really tying yourself up here.

First, it was Orton is not an NFL level athlete, and then you still fail to tell me what an NFL level athlete is...

Orton is a winning NFL QB btw... to be 1 of the 32 starters in the NFL is a huge accomplishment in itself. You say he loses so much but this past season was his 1st season ever that he had a losing record...

Comparing Orton to Brady/Manning isn't really valid either... but to go along you also left Philip Rivers off which I previously mentioned.

Rivers doesn't really have much of an advantage over Orton from an athletic standpoint, they're really on the same level to be honest... with Rivers being a bit taller but throwing a weaker ball.

With this being said, is Rivers not an "NFL level athlete"?

You're argument is lost, and dead at this point... being an NFL athlete really doesn't have to do with W/L as you repeatedly try to make a point of... it's about being on the 53 roster of an NFL team.

And the fact is, Orton will most likely be on the roster of an NFL team for a long time, and he HAS been for his entire career.

Being an NFL level athlete doesn't mean you need to dominate or be great... all it means is you're in the ****ing NFL which is why, the letters "NFL" are used to describe it.

Now if you go back an edit your posts and put "Great NFL athlete" instead of "NFL level athlete" your posts might make more sense...

Until then you're just completely took a sh*t on everything you represent.

PTC
02-04-2011, 07:49 PM
Nope. MVP wasn't very fond of Tim.

What makes you think that I'm not fond of Tim?

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 08:02 PM
Again.. you fail to recognize that the QB position is not necessarily defined by athleticism..

There are certain sports you can dominate without athleticism.. and you are getitng too caught up on semantics and missing the point..

You can be an NFL "athlete" at QB BECAUSE of your skill level.. without PURE athleticism..

So while your semantical argument is true.. you are still no smarter for it.. in fact you are dumber.. and you've made us all dumber.

PTC
02-04-2011, 08:10 PM
Again.. you fail to recognize that the QB position is not necessarily defined by athleticism..

There are certain sports you can dominate without athleticism.. yand you are getitng too caught up on semantics and missing the point..

You can be an NFL "athlete" at QB BECAUSE of your skill level.. without PURE athleticism..

So while your semantical argument is true.. you are still no smarter for it.. in fact you are dumber.. and you've made us all dumber.

You're just playing around with words at this point. "Pure" athleticism, "NFL level" athleticism you really have no point...

No one said the QB position is defined by athleticism to begin with so this really doesn't matter.

Only you said that Orton is not an NFL level athlete...and he is. That has been the point of argument this whole time...there is nothing to miss. You've obviously folded with this last post.

I'm done.

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 08:18 PM
What makes you think that I'm not fond of Tim?

Lol, so you ARE mv"playa".

Nice slip up

PTC
02-04-2011, 08:28 PM
Lol, so you ARE mv"playa".

Nice slip up

...what?

You said the MVPlaya wasn't fond of Tim Tebow, so therefore I am the MVPlaya...

I am asking you, what makes you think I'm not fond of Tim Tebow? (which would make me MVPlaya)

Nice one.

TheReverend
02-04-2011, 08:32 PM
...what?

You said the MVPlaya wasn't fond of Tim Tebow, so therefore I am the MVPlaya...

I am asking you, what makes you think I'm not fond of Tim Tebow? (which would make me MVPlaya)

Nice one.

lol, you even write like him.

Try to keep up, genius:

blah blah blah

MVPlaya right ?

MacGruder = MVPlaya

Nope. MVP wasn't very fond of Tim.

What makes you think that I'm not fond of Tim?

Tada

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 08:32 PM
You're just playing around with words at this point. "Pure" athleticism, "NFL level" athleticism you really have no point...

That;s the point though.. language is inexact.. especially with sports.. and especially with the word athleticism and in certain sports. And that was my point in saying that Orton survives in his sport WITHOUT athleticism... and he's JUST barely surviving..

No one said the QB position is defined by athleticism to begin with so this really doesn't matter.

It is though.. that is my point.. that is why Orton is so limited.. but it isn't completely defined by athleticism which is how he survives..

Only you said that Orton is not an NFL level athlete...and he is.[/quote[

Only in your semantical argument in which even a racecar driver is an athlete.. but you are really wrong.. because Orton doesn't survive with true athleticism. which was my point.

[quote]That has been the point of argument this whole time...there is nothing to miss. You've obviously folded with this last post.

I'm done.

No.. once again.. the QB position is defined now by athleticism more than ever before.. which is WHY Orton is F'ed. Ignore that at your own peril.

WolfpackGuy
02-04-2011, 08:34 PM
Teboz doesn't drink.

Of course Orton doesn't like him!

PTC
02-04-2011, 08:38 PM
lol, you even write like him.

Try to keep up, genius:

Tada

Well theres obviously nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.

So fine... I'm him! lol

TDmvp
02-04-2011, 08:40 PM
Well theres obviously nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.

So fine... I'm him! lol

I wouldn't admit that even if I was him , that guy is a retard :~ohyah!:

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 08:51 PM
This is where you are wrong... you are making assumptions that aren't valid..

You assume that because Tebow plays a certain style that he is less talented than guys like Bradford or even Elway.. this is just dead wrong. The funny part though is that in your feeble mind you only think Tebow can be overrated.. yet Bradford and Elway can't be... why is that? That is what you need to come to terms with.. is it just because Tebow plays such a different style?

Juts answer me this.. if Tebow can't succeed then why was Alex Smith drafted number one overall?

You need to learn to not assume the present is the same as the past.

What will be your excuse if Tebow wins multiple championships?

My observations are not excuses. As I pointed out, I'm a Broncos fan and a Tebow fan, so I will be ecstatic if he wins a championship. So we can just get that ridiculous assumption of yours out of the way.

Alex Smith is not the quarterback prospect that Bradford, Ryan and Stafford are. Neither is Tebow. I know that's hard for you to deal with, but its the truth. NFL scouts and analysts, as well as play on the field back that up.

He's a winner, and I believe in that, but I don't believe he is the transcendent talent you believe him to be. His "style" isn't anything new or different, by the way...

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 09:07 PM
My observations are not excuses. As I pointed out, I'm a Broncos fan and a Tebow fan, so I will be ecstatic if he wins a championship. So we can just get that ridiculous assumption of yours out of the way.

That has nothing to do with what I said.. you are saying Tebow isn't a great NFL Qb talent.. what will you say if you are proven wrong? You act as if scouts aren't wrong.. many great coaches have RAVED about Tebow.. and they don't all rave about him because of his intangibles. Gruden has said Tebow can throw well enough for any level..

Alex Smith is not the quarterback prospect that Bradford, Ryan and Stafford are. Neither is Tebow. I know that's hard for you to deal with, but its the truth. NFL scouts and analysts, as well as play on the field back that up.

According to scouts and NFL personnel Tom Brady was a sixth round pick.. so your point is ridiculous. That's really the end of discussion.

He's a winner, and I believe in that, but I don't believe he is the transcendent talent you believe him to be. His "style" isn't anything new or different, by the way...

Yes it is.. no Qb has ever had the ability to run power like Tebow.. AND pass like him.. his college dominance wasn't some mirage.. in fact he's actually UNDERRATED.. Which is why people are shocked by his ability in the NFL thus far..

What does it mean to just be a "winner"... so you can be a winner in the NFL and in college without having ability?

Missouribronc
02-04-2011, 09:22 PM
That has nothing to do with what I said.. you are saying Tebow isn't a great NFL Qb talent.. what will you say if you are proven wrong? You act as if scouts aren't wrong.. many great coaches have RAVED about Tebow.. and they don't all rave about him because of his intangibles. Gruden has said Tebow can throw well enough for any level..



According to scouts and NFL personnel Tom Brady was a sixth round pick.. so your point is ridiculous. That's really the end of discussion.



Yes it is.. no Qb has ever had the ability to run power like Tebow.. AND pass like him.. his college dominance wasn't some mirage.. in fact he's actually UNDERRATED.. Which is why people are shocked by his ability in the NFL thus far..

What does it mean to just be a "winner"... so you can be a winner in the NFL and in college without having ability?

What will you say if you are proven wrong? That stupid argument goes both ways.

Oh lord...Tom Brady? Akili Smith, Andre Ware, Ryan Leaf, etc., etc...what a stupid argument.

If you believe no quarterback has ever run with Tebow's power than you did not watch Big 8 football, and you are clearly too young to recognize the running talent and power that the Big 8 offered.

Find out who Scott Frost is and get back with us.

bombay
02-04-2011, 09:31 PM
In college Tebow was no Danny Wuerffel, but we'll see how he turns out as a pro.

MacGruder
02-04-2011, 09:44 PM
What will you say if you are proven wrong? That stupid argument goes both ways.

No it isn't a stupid argument.. because the point is people don't know.. I have always said Tebow has as good a chance to succeed as ANY QB prospect ever. Because guess what.. not all great QB prospects pan out. Look at Steve Young. Take a player like Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell.. put them i a different situation and ANYTHING could have happened with those guys.

Also.. there are guys who were huge QB successes who could have busted as well if they were in a terrible situation. Orton is a perfect example of this.. he is a guy who probably should have washed out of the league long ago. If not for McD's offensvie brilliance saving him he might have already.

It's a very different thing to say someone CAN'T succeed than saying someone has the talent to be a great QB. an athlete can develop in ways you can't predict. To act like Tebow is a finished product now even if he hypothetically wasn't great, he could still become great. Look at Aaron Rodgers.. he was looked over and now people are saying he is the best QB in the NFL and better than Favre.. what if he isn't behind Favre to see someone who plays exactly like he does.. is he as good now?

Oh lord...Tom Brady? Akili Smith, Andre Ware, Ryan Leaf, etc., etc...what a stupid argument.

So stupid you have no response? So stupid because it makes so much sense? Do you live in bizarro world or something? lol

If you believe no quarterback has ever run with Tebow's power than you did not watch Big 8 football, and you are clearly too young to recognize the running talent and power that the Big 8 offered.

Did those guys have the agility Tebow does? could they throw the ball as well as Tebow does against the most athletic defenses football has ever seen? If guys now can't even do what Tebow does you are deluding yourself to think he isn't unique.. with all the incredible athletes of this era.. To do what Tebow does in this era makes him so incredibly unique.

Find out who Scott Frost is and get back with us.

Again.. you are using a past era as proof that Tebow is just some mirage..

That era was loaded with teams that had an advantage because of the lack of parity.. you are living in the past. We have never seen the parity in the SEC that exists today. It's like comparing Tebow to Danny Wuerffel.

Bradford is the guy that falls in that category.. he could put up 60 points against any BIG12 D but couldn't score to save his life against an SEC D.

Yes, Bradford played well in the NFL.. but he put up the same empty numbers Brady and Orton put up this year.. That's the mirage.. those are the system QBs.. which is why all of them are at home and the guys closer to Tebow are in the superbowl right now..

Blueflame
02-04-2011, 10:54 PM
Orton is an jerk. I had a buddy on the course last August and and the pair behind him kept hitting balls into them. Finally he goes back there and it's Orton and Stokley. They were trying to hurry with some time off from training camp. Once is an accident; more than that and it's an a-hole that needs to be taught a lesson..

When you have people behind you; hitting into you, it's far safer to let them "play through"; then you can play the game at your own pace without risking being hit. (I've been hit by a golf ball before and it stings a lot... and left a bruise that was still visible 3 weeks later).

KipCorrington25
02-04-2011, 11:48 PM
Orton doesn't like him because he shows him up while hustleing and not being a scumbag... it's not hard to figure out. It's a high school menatlity, hating the freshman that has way more going on than you.

Orton is like the limp dick BMOC that got by because he was the bigest fish in a REALLY small pong and then a real alpha male shows up and he's all butt hurt.

Any of you from small towns have seen it a million times.

epicSocialism4tw
02-05-2011, 12:02 AM
Orton doesn't like him because he shows him up while hustleing and not being a scumbag... it's not hard to figure out. It's a high school menatlity, hating the freshman that has way more going on than you.

Orton is like the limp dick BMOC that got by because he was the bigest fish in a REALLY small pong and then a real alpha male shows up and he's all butt hurt.

Any of you from small towns have seen it a million times.

You know, alot of these guys live such pampered and insulated lives that they still have the social skills of a high school kid, so I dont see your take as being to far from the truth.

schaaf
02-05-2011, 01:28 AM
http://www.1043thefan.com/channels/thedrive/Story.aspx?ID=1358113

You guys should listen to Brian's interview.

About 7 and a half minutes from the end, he seems to kinda slip the tongue and says they will draft for the John Fox 4-3

UberBroncoMan
02-05-2011, 04:22 AM
http://www.1043thefan.com/channels/thedrive/Story.aspx?ID=1358113

You guys should listen to Brian's interview.

About 7 and a half minutes from the end, he seems to kinda slip the tongue and says they will draft for the John Fox 4-3

Considering who we got at DC as well, this isn't a shocker.

bowtown
02-05-2011, 06:18 AM
http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4800125/Cool-dog-thinks-this-thread-sucks.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Cool-Dog

broncogary
02-05-2011, 07:04 AM
When you have people behind you; hitting into you, it's far safer to let them "play through"; then you can play the game at your own pace without risking being hit. (I've been hit by a golf ball before and it stings a lot... and left a bruise that was still visible 3 weeks later).

Seeing as it was Orton and Stokley, I'd say it was far safer to beat their ass.

Anyway, BF, the risk isn't a bruise, it's that you could actually get killed.

vancejohnson82
02-05-2011, 07:06 AM
oh my God....this is still going on?

Cue AnchorMan.............."That escalated quickly"

hopefully, MacGruder stuck both of his hands into the garbage disposal trying to retrieve his replica 2008 Tim Tebow championship ring

TailgateNut
02-05-2011, 07:31 AM
Strafen's a moron!


Now, this isn't just something you hear on the light-rail. I saw a billboard with that nugget.^5

TailgateNut
02-05-2011, 07:33 AM
The comments were recent. I don't have a link b/c I heard it on "the drive" yesterday during my ride home. I guess Orton had issues with Tebow being the type of kid that always had the answer and was the first to raise his hand type, that is the comp the 104.3 crew drew.

I myself would like to hear all of the comments and the actual context of the questions/answers. But if Elway is confirming there may be a little rift, I have to believe Orton isn't sporting a Tebowner.


Well, that makes two of us, and if you include John, three.

errand
02-05-2011, 07:33 AM
Did he seriously admit that on the radio? Transparancy is not always a good thing. Some things need to be taken care of in-house.

What is the rift between them? Orton just pissed he lost his starting job, or is it something more personal?

It's not etched in stone that Orton is no longer the starting QB of the Denver Broncos....anymore than it's etched in stone that Tebow won't be in '11.

QB controversy can destroy a team...look at the Bills ever since Jim Kelly hung them up.


Basically both Tebow and Orton are young QB's that believe they should be the starter...and while that kind of drive and competition is good is some ways, it's also damaging in other ways as it could divide a team. Think Denver Broncos circa '99 when we had a heated controversy between Griese and Brister....or even '06 when we had Jake and Jay. Neither season is one that will go down as one of our best.

I'm not sold on dumping Orton yet...at least not until Tebow has a firm grasp of the offense and proves he's the guy beyond all doubt, because a good QB like Orton is invaluable when the hotshot rookie hits the sophomore slump, and the team needs to get back on track.

Open up the competition, play the best player and if the other guy doesn't like him, well, send him packing.....

theAPAOps5
02-05-2011, 07:40 AM
Did the MVPplaya get player hated and banned?

errand
02-05-2011, 07:52 AM
This is like that scene in Rudy where Vince Vaughn corners Rudy in the parking lot and tells him to slow down.

Though I wonder if Orton ever screamed YOU SUCK ASS at Timmy

Vince Vaughn was in Rudy? Been so long since i saw that movie....wow, never noticed that. lol

errand
02-05-2011, 07:57 AM
Orton the team cancer. He is gone for sure now. You can suck and be a cancer...

If the comments about trying to hard are true, it would sure explain a lot.

the key word here is IF. If those comments are true....but what if they're not true?

What if this accusation is nowhere near the truth?

MacGruder
02-05-2011, 07:59 AM
oh my God....this is still going on?

Cue AnchorMan.............."That escalated quickly"

hopefully, MacGruder stuck both of his hands into the garbage disposal trying to retrieve his replica 2008 Tim Tebow championship ring

So much hate.. and for your own ignorance too.. sad...

errand
02-05-2011, 08:00 AM
What conclusions are we jumping to? I didn't even post all of the Orton comments about Tebow until John Elway came out and confirmed there was a bit of an issue between the two.

It's not jumping to conclusions when the VP confirms there is an issue.

If you and another guy coveted the same woman, would you be able to coexist without any tension at all? There's only one starting QB per team you know....so since both Tebow and Orton covet that gig, it's a good chance that there may be some tension...but i doubt very seriously that's it's like you're describing.

broncogary
02-05-2011, 08:16 AM
If you and another guy coveted the same woman, would you be able to coexist without any tension at all? There's only one starting QB per team you know....so since both Tebow and Orton covet that gig, it's a good chance that there may be some tension...but i doubt very seriously that's it's like you're describing.

Yeah, and how does Brady Quinn feel about this?

errand
02-05-2011, 08:26 AM
The most high profile and highest impact player on a 3-10 squad.

Joe Namath is revered in the AFL and NFL lores and is enshrined in the hall of fame...and he only had three years where his team won more games than they lost. Nolan Ryan's winning pct. as a starting pitcher was around .500...but he was normally on .375 teams

So is it possible that a good player could i dunno, be on a suck ass team?

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps while Orton cannot elevate a piss-poor talented team into the playoffs and win a title, he could possibly lead a an above average talented team to a title by keeping them in most games and not putting a good to dominant defense in bad situations like defending a short field caused by an untimely interception?

errand
02-05-2011, 08:32 AM
Remember when Orton was labeled a winner?

Now Orton is the new Cutler.

Orton has never been proclaimed to be the world beater that alot of his detractors claim he's been.....I'd say 99% of those who liked Orton over Jay were more impressed that he didn't throw numerous red zone int's and pout afterwards. They pointed out that he accomplished more with a less talented Bears team than Jay did with a more talented Broncos team.

Having said that I'm of the thought that if a guy outta the stands can win a title, then sign him up....

errand
02-05-2011, 08:43 AM
Stuff like the falling down while he scrambles at hover round speed , having a average skill set and being the one of the most unclutch starting Qbs in the league...

Dude tries like hell , and respect his effort and heart like when he came back in with a bad ankle for Simms , but he will never be a Qb I could see a team winning a Super Bowl with ... And I know I know Dilfer sucked but that's one out of a crap load.

I suppose it never occurred to you that he wouldn't have to be so "clutch" if he didn't have to play against two defenses every week.

BTW...you realize that while Tebow's certainly energized the fan base he only won one of his three starts right?

Tebow looks like he'll do well but, again if you dump Orton and go with Tebow, you run the risk of him trying to learn on the job, and that won't help us win alot more games.

Tebow from most accounts isn't a polished product just yet, but he is willing to learn which is a positive.....

for all we know Fox might get rid of both of them, afterall he's not married to Orton or Tebow.....kind of like Whisenhunt and Leinhart, Shanahan and Campbell. We might see two QB's being traded for the number one pick of the '12 draft....and watch him select Luck outta Stanford. who the hell knows?

CEH
02-05-2011, 08:45 AM
lol, you even write like him.

Try to keep up, genius:

Tada

Looks like MVPPlaya has vanished from my ignore list meaning this was done systematically when his user name was purged from the system then along comes his Einstein. Not to hard to figure out

errand
02-05-2011, 08:53 AM
Right, and that's perfectly fine in my eyes. Orton has obvious flaws in his game which its justifiable to dislike, and its perfectly understandable that Broncos fans could prefer Tebow be the starting QB.

But his poor showings on third down and in the 4th quarter don't justify the level of hatred some on this board, like strafen and jhns, show towards him. Your dislike of Orton is rational. I was questioning theirs because it is irrational.

I agree...the guy has been a pretty good performer for us in his two seasons, but this is the mane. Remember they also didn't like Jake who went 41-22 including playoffs, because he too didn't have the dreamy skill set of a rocket arm and good looks. Gotta win with style in Denver ya know.

and this argument of the whole lack of performing on third down is bull****...too many other people like the Ol, RB, and WR's and opposing defense are involved in the success or failure of converting on third down. To blame one man for a team's lack of success is just a witch hunt.

Punisher
02-05-2011, 08:59 AM
If you told me 3 years ago that we would have Orton and Tebow fighting for the number one QB spot. I'll sacrifice 3 chicken, 7 kittens and a virgin under a full moon.

errand
02-05-2011, 09:01 AM
"Acolytes"? So, you make up a baseless statement without citing ANY specific examples, and when you're called out on it, it's because we're "acolytes" and view him as an "infallible deity"?

How about we're calling you out on it because you're full of ****.

He has plenty of faults and a lot to work on. Fortunately, his drive and effort are so high, refining these areas is a very realistic goal.

Then we have people like you who are literally making **** up about him. Now he's a kiss ass "go getter" because he was trying hard in training camp? STOP THE ****ING PRESSES! A ROOKIE WAS TRYING HARD IN TRAINING CAMP!

And your vague claims of having supporting evidence hold no water. I'm still waiting on ONE SINGLE specific example... which you've certainly been unable to provide.


i agree..unless you can produce video or audio of either one of them saying bad stuff about each other, hell even a reliable named source then I'd shut the **** up.


Tebow is a go getter...and is a good guy by all accounts. i personally think he's been under such scrutiny and has so many detractors as to his mechanics etc. that perhaps he's just trying to prove them wrong by doing more and going the extra mile. Nothing wrong with a little hustle...

MacGruder
02-05-2011, 09:03 AM
and this argument of the whole lack of performing on third down is bull****...too many other people like the Ol, RB, and WR's and opposing defense are involved in the success or failure of converting on third down. To blame one man for a team's lack of success is just a witch hunt.

If the offense wasn't built to carry the team and McD wasn't so great offensively I would agree with you. I don't expect Orton to be a world beater.. but he should have won way more games than he did and been more explosive offensively.

errand
02-05-2011, 09:09 AM
You can be "highly competive ALL the time" without being showy about it.

I recall when our softball team had no shortstop at the beginning of the season. I'm an outfielder by trade, but was willing to play short until we could find one despite being realistic about my athletic ability....I made my share of both errors and fantastic plays in practice...

In one practice I had made several tough plays in a row, and then pulled a bill buckner and let a pathetic ground ball go between the wickets. Our first baseman got a little annoyed, and i told him that "I'm no shortstop, but trust me, if i work at it, i will be good at it..."

One of the wives said that arrogance wasn't very becoming of me...to which I said, "It's called confidence....those without it call it arrogance"

Point being is that Tim isn't being a show off by trying to be the best he can be. I'm still trying to understand why a guy trying to be the best player ever is bad for him and the team?

If Orton can't handle Tebow doing that, then sure...get rid of him and put him on someone else's team....the problem is nobody has shown proof that that's the case.

errand
02-05-2011, 09:22 AM
You can try.. but that doesn't make it so. You have respected journalists saying these things. You have other journalists corraborating this by saying Orton was exhibiting the same behavior on other occasions.

If Orton was such a great worker would Chicago have let him go? Would he lose so many games even with a great offense and great offensive coach and a very good receiver corps around him?

Orton's skill set compared to Jay's was lacking....so chicago traded for what they believed to be their franchise QB. That was two seasons ago.

As far as Orton losing games despite a good corps of WR's and a supposed offensive genius as coach.....the problem is there wasn't much of a running game to help control the clock, and the other team gets to have the ball too. Like I've said it's hell playing against two defenses

errand
02-05-2011, 09:29 AM
also, how do you think Bradford did better? Orton beat him in every statistical category....


...except when they met head to head. Bradford got the best of Orton in that game...well he got the best of that sieve Orton had as a defense

Punisher
02-05-2011, 09:31 AM
Originally Posted by vancejohnson82 http://orangemane.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3109616#post3109616)

also, how do you think Bradford did better? Orton beat him in every statistical category....


lol Bradford is like way way better than Orton

TheReverend
02-05-2011, 09:31 AM
Orton's skill set compared to Jay's was lacking....so chicago traded for what they believed to be their franchise QB. That was two seasons ago.

As far as Orton losing games despite a good corps of WR's and a supposed offensive genius as coach.....the problem is there wasn't much of a running game to help control the clock, and the other team gets to have the ball too. Like I've said it's hell playing against two defenses

His 3rd and short conversion rate sucked too.

MacGruder
02-05-2011, 09:35 AM
I think a big part of Orton's problem is a lack of aggressiveness.. I don't know if he is trying to keep his job or just knows his limitations.. but his lack of aggressiveness was like wearing a steak sports coat in a lions den.. I think that's why the Broncos had the horrible blowouts they did.

Opposing offenses and defenses were emboldened by is unaggressive game manager style. Especially when the O was supposed to carry the team not the D. Orton was playing like a game manager when he was supposed to be the game winner on this O and team.

Tebow is the complete opposite. Which is why the o was so much more explosive and why Tebow made mistakes. INTs and low % yet high YPA. Sure.. he could check down.. make no mistakes and get blownout. Take what the D gives him and absolutely no more but that isn't going to get the team or himself anywhere.

errand
02-05-2011, 09:39 AM
Dude, we led the entire effing NFL in 40+ yard pass plays for most of the year. Orton was spot on with the deep passing game the first 3/4 of the year.

...and keep in mind he only played one game in the final 1/4 of the season. Tebow started the last 3. i'm curious how many 40+yard passing plays did Tebow have?

TheReverend
02-05-2011, 09:59 AM
...and keep in mind he only played one game in the final 1/4 of the season. Tebow started the last 3. i'm curious how many 40+yard passing plays did Tebow have?

Orton had 11 40+ yard passing plays through 13 games.

With significantly more conservative play calling, Tebow had 2 40+ yard passing plays through 3 games, and another on the ground.

Cito Pelon
02-05-2011, 11:39 AM
I actually don't think it's a question of if Tebow will make it but "when"

I think his passing is totally underrated. Tebow's real issues are just that he has bad habits.. but those bad habits were created by a dearth of talent and a desire to win at all cost.

Plus.. he has so much pressure on him he can't make mistakes normal QBs can. Because when he does it it's an indictment of his ability.. rather than just a learning curve like everyone else. So it's like a vicious cycle.. he can never change his style of play because he always has to prove himself.

That was a pretty good post. Not attention-getting, but good.

driver
02-05-2011, 11:45 AM
Orton vs Tebow. IMO it's an attempt by a slick car salesman to make a trade ASAP. He makes the statement that there is a problem in the team chemistry, a few days later he says if we had to play tomorrow Orton would be the starter. Basically he is saying he's for sale and the PRICE IS, a good business man making sure everyone looking for a good QB knows there is one available.

Dedhed
02-05-2011, 12:01 PM
i told him that "I'm no shortstop, but trust me, if i work at it, i will be good at it..."

One of the wives said that arrogance wasn't very becoming of me...to which I said, "It's called confidence....those without it call it arrogance"

I bet you didn't come off like a douche in that exchange at all!:clown:

Homer Simpson
02-05-2011, 12:20 PM
If you told me 3 years ago that we would have Orton and Tebow fighting for the number one QB spot. I'll sacrifice 3 chicken, 7 kittens and a virgin under a full moon.

So you'd slaughter your back yard then kill yourself?

Blueflame
02-05-2011, 12:34 PM
Seeing as it was Orton and Stokley, I'd say it was far safer to beat their ass.

Anyway, BF, the risk isn't a bruise, it's that you could actually get killed.

No doubt about that... I was hit in the shoulder (thankfully the bra strap took some of the impact) but as hard as the ball was hit, it could have been very serious if it had hit me in the head instead. I was off to the right of the tee box... maybe 50 feet away and thought I was "safe" (my first time ever on a golf course) but the ball just came right off the toe of his club. It was a good "safety lesson"... since then I'm always behind the tee box.

In the situation GB's buddy was in though... I think my husband would have offered to let Orton and Stokley play through... so that they were ahead of us.

errand
02-05-2011, 02:47 PM
I bet you didn't come off like a douche in that exchange at all!:clown:

and once again you prove my statement to be true....only people who have no confidence believe that confidence is the same as arrogance.

Arrogance would be walking around telling everyone you're better than they ...

Confidence is believing that you can eventually become better than they are at whatever it is......

errand
02-05-2011, 02:49 PM
No doubt about that... I was hit in the shoulder (thankfully the bra strap took some of the impact) but as hard as the ball was hit, it could have been very serious if it had hit me in the head instead. I was off to the right of the tee box... maybe 50 feet away and thought I was "safe" (my first time ever on a golf course) but the ball just came right off the toe of his club. It was a good "safety lesson"... since then I'm always behind the tee box.

In the situation GB's buddy was in though... I think my husband would have offered to let Orton and Stokley play through... so that they were ahead of us.

I like mitch Hedberg's take....

"I never hit a hole in one...but, i did hit a guy with a ball, and that's way more satisfying." "I know i was suppose to yell "fore!", but i was too busy muttering "there's no way that's gonna hit him"

Punisher
02-05-2011, 03:51 PM
So you'd slaughter your back yard then kill yourself?

I sorry i wish a was a virgin but three men took that from me a long time ago