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View Full Version : How do we replace Ryan Harris? Draft Impact Question: OT in the 1st?


footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 12:00 PM
I don't know why this hasn't been talked about much in here yet but in case anyone missed it, we parted ways with Ryan Harris. This brings up two interesting questions, 1) Who made this move? It was pre-Fox so it makes me ask, and 2) What do we do about replacing the guy who would have protected Tebow's blind side?

Was Zane Beadles impressive enough at that spot last year? I'm trying to recall how many games he played over there, but I really thought they wanted to plug him in next to Clady anyway...no? Someone who knows for sure tell me...so back to the point, what do we do to replace Harris? If we're going to draft an OT over there, we need to look at the fact that the guy has to be big enough to run block and agile enough to do at least at pretty credible job as a pass protector. Maybe we're not looking for an elite pass blocker but at least a pretty good one who is can run block well also. Reading up on the CU kid, he's a possibility and he'd be there for a trade up or down. Bottom line is, no matter how you look at it in terms of needing defense you can't leave your brand new baby QB's blind side unaccounted for. Now whether we do this in the draft, free agency or a trade it matters not to me but someone suggest some alternatives to them having to draft an OT high in this draft somewhere instead of spending it on a defensive pick. One thing about the Solder kid, he's 308 pounds and moves like a tight end in space. If we took this guy we'd have bookend OT's for the next 12 years and the most mobile offensive line in the league with Clady returning to form this year. With a mobile QB back there, it makes me smile to imagine Tebow in a moving pocket. ;D

Food for thought...

Missouribronc
01-28-2011, 12:04 PM
They didn't really "part ways" with Harris. They just let his current contract run out. It's the same with Champ Bailey. His contract has run out, and he's not currently under contract.

Speculation I've seen from various speculating internet sources, says Harris is probably coming back.

gunns
01-28-2011, 12:07 PM
I wouldn't be upset if Harris didn't come back. You have to be able to rely on your players to be there to play their positions and Harris has been sporadic. I thought for a rookie Beadles did a decent job. We need to pick up one in the draft but not in the first.

PRBronco
01-28-2011, 12:08 PM
I sure hope they just re-sign him.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 12:11 PM
They didn't really "part ways" with Harris. They just let his current contract run out. It's the same with Champ Bailey. His contract has run out, and he's not currently under contract.

Speculation I've seen from various speculating internet sources, says Harris is probably coming back.
No kidding...I swear I read that he was released. That's been said on this board several times by different people. Well in any case, if they let his contract run out, is he coming back? And how do we know? I'd rather not have to spend a high pick on the O-line, maybe 3rd round.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-28-2011, 12:13 PM
If we take a tackle in the first, ill give up

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 12:14 PM
I wouldn't be upset if Harris didn't come back. You have to be able to rely on your players to be there to play their positions and Harris has been sporadic. I thought for a rookie Beadles did a decent job. We need to pick up one in the draft but not in the first.
Well if Beadles stays over there, who plays the LG spot? I thought cutting that clown McD brought in was meant to slide Beadles in there. We're a top-flight O-lineman short even if we assume the rookies will improve, which I think they will. But is Beadles ready to be a starter there? If not, who can we get to start in free agency or trade?

oubronco
01-28-2011, 12:15 PM
I don't think we'll know for sure what they are gioing to do until the cba thing is done and if they do let him go then Free agency is probably the best answer

broncosteven
01-28-2011, 12:22 PM
I never heard that he was released.

I hope they resign him, when healthy he has proven to be a beast in the right system.

Maybe they are waiting to hear the status of the CBA?

primetime714
01-28-2011, 12:25 PM
I think Elway made a comment suggesting that we'd need to bring in a RT to replace Harris. That doesn't mean thought that we cant just bring Harris back. It seems like he wants to return. He's great in a zone blocking scheme (perhaps our best run blocker).

The problem with Harris is the injuries. This wouldn't be such a huge deal if we weren't going with a left handed QB. However you can't have an oft injured OT guarding your QB's blind side.

I don't think there is any chance we go OT early in the draft. I think its either Harris or another Free Agent.

Since Harris seems to want to come back and might come at a lower cost I think we'll likely end up bringing him back and just look to add some solid depth either at G (behind Beadles) or at Tackle.

broncocalijohn
01-28-2011, 12:25 PM
I think we will look at George Foster again. Ok, kidding aside, his contract ran out and I think Broncos just want to see option and possibly renegotiate. Dude has been injured lately and possibly need someone reliable. This might be where FO vs agent comes into play.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 12:28 PM
I don't think we'll know for sure what they are gioing to do until the cba thing is done and if they do let him go then Free agency is probably the best answer
Well I hope they resign him rather than looking elsewhere because this line has to have some continuity in terms of guys playing with each other. If we lose Harris then we bring in another guy who has to learn to mix into their system and play with the guy next to him. If a really interesting OT fell to the 3rd though, we should take him. You can never have enough O-line depth and we don't.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 12:32 PM
I think we will look at George Foster again. Ok, kidding aside, his contract ran out and I think Broncos just want to see option and possibly renegotiate. Dude has been injured lately and possibly need someone reliable. This might be where FO vs agent comes into play.
See that's what concerns me...he's seemingly not able to stay on the field. Who do we have behind him, assuming he re-signs here...that we can rely on if...some will say when...he goes down? Our O-line depth is very poor.

Pony Boy
01-28-2011, 12:35 PM
What about that big kid (Solder) from CU he was all Big 12, has anyone watched him, he should be there in a later round?

Requiem
01-28-2011, 12:42 PM
Solder is a first-round pick and there are a few other first round tackles.

If Harris leaves, the Broncos would have plenty of options in the second and third round to get a versatile OL. A lot of G/T tweeners in this draft, and solid players in that area who could probably start right away.

Goobzilla
01-28-2011, 12:56 PM
It's time we take care of our major needs:

http://www.spirit-signs.com/D-Fence.jpg

Ray Finkle
01-28-2011, 01:00 PM
A chance to draft an impact DL and you want to take an OL? At a loss for words...

Beantown Bronco
01-28-2011, 01:10 PM
They didn't really "part ways" with Harris. They just let his current contract run out. It's the same with Champ Bailey. His contract has run out, and he's not currently under contract.

False.

They are both still under contract. NFL contracts don't expire until the end of the league year in March.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 01:10 PM
A chance to draft an impact DL and you want to take an OL? At a loss for words...
Yes I see that...words aren't your specialty, reading them ahead of commenting anyway. I never said I wanted to draft an OT in the first place, and I stated later in this short thread that I didn't want to. My question is what do we do if we lose Ryan Harris? Or do you want to just ignore the fact that we might not have him on the roster next year? Trades, FA signings...what?

:oyvey:::):saywhat::-[:unamused:ugh!~:(:nono::moon::punched:

Requiem
01-28-2011, 01:17 PM
According to Footsteps B.J. Raji was selected last year.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 01:27 PM
Solder is a first-round pick and there are a few other first round tackles.

If Harris leaves, the Broncos would have plenty of options in the second and third round to get a versatile OL. A lot of G/T tweeners in this draft, and solid players in that area who could probably start right away.
I watched Solder, the BC and Wisconsin kids all lined up together in these Senior Bowl practices NFLN has been doing. He's pretty incredible the way he gets downfield and moves in space. He's not built like an OT, more like a TE and no matter what you think about drafting defense you have to enjoy imagining this guy on the edges sealing off DE's and OLB's, leading screens 30 yards downfield or anchoring in a moving pocket. He's intriguing because he's one of those rare types that could probably play well in either the SZBS or in a power blocking line. The other two kids looked more like traditional offensive tackles, bulky and slower.

gyldenlove
01-28-2011, 01:30 PM
There is no way we draft OT in the 1st round, our defense is attrocious and is short on talent, we can not keep ignoring that fact, Xanders said defense would be the focal point and I believe he will stick to that.

Beadles was a failure at RT, he was among the worst in the league at that spot and especially if he is going to be a blindside tackle for Tebow he doesn't have anywhere near the quickness required. Beadles has to stay at LG.

If we need a new RT, then we have to go through FA, we can not afford to waste a high round pick on an offensive player with the state the defense is in currently.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 01:31 PM
According to Footsteps B.J. Raji was selected last year.
2009...whatever. Does it matter? I remember people saying we couldn't consider trying to get him because he wasn't a NT but he's playing well. I would love to snag a big quick NT guy like Powe or Phillips somehow.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 01:32 PM
There is no way we draft OT in the 1st round, our defense is attrocious and is short on talent, we can not keep ignoring that fact, Xanders said defense would be the focal point and I believe he will stick to that.

Beadles was a failure at RT, he was among the worst in the league at that spot and especially if he is going to be a blindside tackle for Tebow he doesn't have anywhere near the quickness required. Beadles has to stay at LG.

If we need a new RT, then we have to go through FA, we can not afford to waste a high round pick on an offensive player with the state the defense is in currently.
So who is available in FA? Anyone know?

Requiem
01-28-2011, 01:33 PM
2009...whatever. Does it matter? I remember people saying we couldn't consider trying to get him because he wasn't a NT but he's playing well. I would love to snag a big quick NT guy like Powe or Phillips somehow.

Yes, perspective matters.

Who the **** is Phillips?

Missouribronc
01-28-2011, 01:37 PM
False.

They are both still under contract. NFL contracts don't expire until the end of the league year in March.

Alrighty then...contract hasn't even expired yet...

Durango
01-28-2011, 01:47 PM
There's not a chance we draft an OT first. Not even a little chance. Not even a tiny particle of a little chance.

Fox is a defense guy. He also knows McDaniels screwed himself by not focusing on the primary needs of this team. I'm sure he also knows he has his pick of the premier college defensive talent with a high % chance he will land an impact player.

No chance we draft an OT first. None.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 01:58 PM
Yes, perspective matters.

Who the **** is Phillips?
LOL I was thinking of PHIL Taylor...my bad.

I knew I read this stuff about them getting rid of Harris somewhere, and here it is: http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_17015571
Elway also said he'd love to have star Champ Bailey back next year but wasn't sure the team's budget would allow that. Elway sounded like he believed he'd be looking for a replacement in the draft or free agency for right tackle Ryan Harris, who stabilized the offensive line and protected Tebow's blind side but will be a free agent.
Before clicking on that I clicked here: http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=4457&line=198221&spln=1 This curious statement appears:

Broncos VP of Football Operations John Elway indicated Wednesday that the team is ready to move on from impending free agent RT Ryan Harris.

Mike Klis had something in his mailbag about this too. Somebody claims Elway is looking at replacing him but who knows if any of this is accurate or not? I think they have to consider how fragile this guy's been lately.

Read more: John Elway rejoins Broncos as football czar - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_17015571#ixzz1CMxXQahn
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

**EDIT: Here are Kisla's remarks: http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_17120033

I'm hearing rumors that Denver might let Ryan Harris go. Is he too prone to injuries or does it come down to dollars?
-- Mark Bausch, Dallas

Mark - There will be no business this season until a collective bargaining agreement is reached, and a new CBA is sure to make Harris a free agent. An accumulation of injuries did seem to have a performance toll on Harris this season. Which is too bad because until he suffered a back injury prior to his senior season at Notre Dame, Harris was projected a first-round left tackle.

He was terrific in 2008 and the first six games of 2009. But the toe injury in Game 7 and ankle injury in the final preseason game of 2010 have been setbacks.

If he can have a couple healthy seasons in a row, Harris can re-emerge as one of the league's top tackles.

PRBronco
01-28-2011, 02:05 PM
LOL I was thinking of PHIL Taylor...my bad.

I knew I read this stuff about them getting rid of Harris somewhere, and here it is: http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_17015571

Before clicking on that I clicked here: http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=4457&line=198221&spln=1 This curious statement appears:

Broncos VP of Football Operations John Elway indicated Wednesday that the team is ready to move on from impending free agent RT Ryan Harris.

Mike Klis had something in his mailbag about this too. Somebody claims Elway is looking at replacing him but who knows if any of this is accurate or not? I think they have to consider how fragile this guy's been lately.

Read more: John Elway rejoins Broncos as football czar - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_17015571#ixzz1CMxXQahn
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

**EDIT: Here are Kisla's remarks: http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_17120033

That was before we hired Fox. I would actually believe this speculation (http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/01/20/ort-harris-could-be-foxs-type-of-player) about Fox wanting to keep Harris before I believed what's in the DP.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 02:06 PM
Looks like it's not well founded info...no source offered on that website. Not sure what Elway actually said, or if he realized what he said for that matter.

Pick Six
01-28-2011, 02:19 PM
We need Harris. I blame his injury for the second half collapse, in 09...

crush17
01-28-2011, 02:29 PM
While it is definitely something to think about in terms of do we re-sign Harris or let him walk, we are NOT drafting offense in the 1st round. Period. So, that discussion is not necessary.

I think we should re-sign him but for a reduced price due to injury/durability issues. If he gets a better offer, so be it.

Pony Boy
01-28-2011, 02:37 PM
While it is definitely something to think about in terms of do we re-sign Harris or let him walk, we are NOT drafting offense in the 1st round. Period. So, that discussion is not necessary.

I think we should re-sign him but for a reduced price due to injury/durability issues. If he gets a better offer, so be it.

I don't think we were talking about drafting a tackle with the 1st pick, obviously that's not gonna happen but we looking at guys that would be available in a later pick.

gyldenlove
01-28-2011, 02:39 PM
So who is available in FA? Anyone know?

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/fa/ol.html

elsid13
01-28-2011, 02:42 PM
i really like Doug Free coming out of school, and I still think he would be good addition to the team.

Ray Finkle
01-28-2011, 03:29 PM
Yes I see that...words aren't your specialty, reading them ahead of commenting anyway. I never said I wanted to draft an OT in the first place, and I stated later in this short thread that I didn't want to. My question is what do we do if we lose Ryan Harris? Or do you want to just ignore the fact that we might not have him on the roster next year? Trades, FA signings...what?

:oyvey:::):saywhat::-[:unamused:ugh!~:(:nono::moon::punched:

How do we replace Ryan Harris? Draft Impact Question: OT in the 1st?

here is your thread title. I based my response off your first post not your back peddling to avoid looking stupid

TheChamp24
01-28-2011, 03:42 PM
How about we worry about fixing the giant ****ing turd that is our defense before we look at replacing an OT that has missed significant time the past 2 years?

bombay
01-28-2011, 03:59 PM
Like every other o-lineman, he suffered from declining performance under napoleon. Like most of the rest of the line, I think he'll have a resurgence and hope he's retained.

cmhargrove
01-28-2011, 04:47 PM
If said it before - A-11 offense baby!!!

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 04:57 PM
How do we replace Ryan Harris? Draft Impact Question: OT in the 1st?

here is your thread title. I based my response off your first post not your back peddling to avoid looking stupid
Dude...I posted the thread title to spark discussion, not because I myself said I wanted to draft an OT in the first round. Had you read what I wrote you wouldn't have jumped to conclusions, thus looking stupid yourself now.

Whoops.

Ray Finkle
01-28-2011, 05:03 PM
Dude...I posted the thread title to spark discussion, not because I myself said I wanted to draft an OT in the first round. Had you read what I wrote you wouldn't have jumped to conclusions, thus looking stupid yourself now.

Whoops.

"to spark discussion" aka I had an idea I want people to buy into but it turns out it was bad...

no way possible is drafting a OL in round one sound.

strafen
01-28-2011, 05:06 PM
Harris has had health issues. I'm sure the Broncos medical staff has a full report on him.
I'm sure they will try to draft a RT or get a bonafide RT from FA.
With Tebow projected to be the starting QB, the RT position becomes critical...

I think Beadles is versatile enough he can play most of the positions on the line if not all of them.
I think if he competes for the RT spot and wins it, that that's where he'll be settled in...

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 05:10 PM
I don't think we were talking about drafting a tackle with the 1st pick, obviously that's not gonna happen but we looking at guys that would be available in a later pick.
Right. We have more than one option but we need to consider how thin we are if Harris goes down again or simply doesn't re-sign. I get the feeling some people think this isn't important, maybe since Tebow's so mobile. But protecting him has to be a top priority from the beginning.

kupesdad
01-28-2011, 05:12 PM
False.

They are both still under contract. NFL contracts don't expire until the end of the league year in March.

you nailed it..

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 05:12 PM
Harris has had health issues. I'm sure the Broncos medical staff has a full report on him.
I'm sure they will try to draft a RT or get a bonafide RT from FA.
With Tebow projected to be the starting QB, the RT position becomes critical...

I think Beadles is versatile enough he can play most of the positions on the line if not all of them.
I think if he competes for the RT spot and wins it, that that's where he'll be settled in...
Then who plays LG?

Pony Boy
01-28-2011, 09:20 PM
Right. We have more than one option but we need to consider how thin we are if Harris goes down again or simply doesn't re-sign. I get the feeling some people think this isn't important, maybe since Tebow's so mobile. But protecting him has to be a top priority from the beginning.

We are shopping for a quality RT and it seems like every year we hear about guys that drop in the draft because they are a natural RT that would have a hard time converting to a more valuable LT.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 09:39 PM
"to spark discussion" aka I had an idea I want people to buy into but it turns out it was bad...

no way possible is drafting a OL in round one sound.
Another lazy poster who can't be bothered to READ the post you claim you based your response off of. Here's my exact quote smart guy:
I don't know why this hasn't been talked about much in here yet but in case anyone missed it, we parted ways with Ryan Harris. This brings up two interesting questions, 1) Who made this move? It was pre-Fox so it makes me ask, and 2) What do we do about replacing the guy who would have protected Tebow's blind side?

Was Zane Beadles impressive enough at that spot last year? I'm trying to recall how many games he played over there, but I really thought they wanted to plug him in next to Clady anyway...no? Someone who knows for sure tell me...so back to the point, what do we do to replace Harris? If we're going to draft an OT over there, we need to look at the fact that the guy has to be big enough to run block and agile enough to do at least at pretty credible job as a pass protector. Maybe we're not looking for an elite pass blocker but at least a pretty good one who is can run block well also. Reading up on the CU kid, he's a possibility and he'd be there for a trade up or down. Bottom line is, no matter how you look at it in terms of needing defense you can't leave your brand new baby QB's blind side unaccounted for. Now whether we do this in the draft, free agency or a trade it matters not to me but someone suggest some alternatives to them having to draft an OT high in this draft somewhere instead of spending it on a defensive pick. One thing about the Solder kid, he's 308 pounds and moves like a tight end in space. If we took this guy we'd have bookend OT's for the next 12 years and the most mobile offensive line in the league with Clady returning to form this year. With a mobile QB back there, it makes me smile to imagine Tebow in a moving pocket. ;D

Food for thought...
I hate the way people in this place are constantly just literally crouched in anticipation of starting some bull**** just to start it. Even if I had suggested we draft an OT in the first round, which I clearly didn't, I'm on record in here as saying I want Peterson with the #2 pick. Now...you can have a discussion with me or you can play this stupid game, but I'm not interested in engaging you in a discussion if you're going to ignore what I post to suit your own agenda. I have no interest in this argumentative **** anymore...it's a useless way to spend time.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 09:54 PM
We are shopping for a quality RT and it seems like every year we hear about guys that drop in the draft because they are a natural RT that would have a hard time converting to a more valuable LT.
That's true, but they're dropping because they don't have the feet to mirror speed rushers. Those guys inhabit the RDE or ROLB spots normally, but with a lefty at QB it's reversed. That's why I noted that we need a guy who can pass block pretty well as well as block for the run. I'm not impressed with the free agents on the list, though I didn't look at the entire list just the ones profiled at this point. I figure with our two 2nds, plus another 2nd we should be able to get for Orton, that we can combine the 3rd we have now and make a move back into the first round at least once, possibly twice if we really had targeted a specific guy. I think we have to go defensive line with at least two of those picks if we take Peterson. If we go Fairley, Bowers or Dareus, we can add one more 1st round D-line guy by trading back up again into the first and at least one more front 7 guy who could play anywhere. That leaves two picks if we trade Orton, a 2nd and probably the 3rd. The question then is, do we want to sit tight or move up for an OT or pick two more defensive players, move up for another 1st round guy talent like Ayers, or take BPA with what's left? I'd prefer a solid veteran with NFL experience already that we can plug into the RT spot for two years while we draft a guy maybe in the 3rd and groom him. That way we could wind up with Peterson, maybe Paea or someone like Cameron Heyward in the first, and probably grab Taylor or Powe later on. If we emerge from this draft without three top defensive prospects I'll be dissapointed. If we did spend one on offense, I'd favor the RT spot over TE or RB at this point unless the talent gap is pretty significant. Hopefully Harris signs again and comes back healthy though. The CBA thing has all this up in the air.

broncocalijohn
01-28-2011, 09:59 PM
Dude...I posted the thread title to spark discussion, not because I myself said I wanted to draft an OT in the first round. Had you read what I wrote you wouldn't have jumped to conclusions, thus looking stupid yourself now.

Whoops.

Do a poll then and see if ANYONE is nuts enough to say that they want an OT in the first round. You will get MVPlaya (cause he is smarter than us) and every other troll voting OL in the first.

listopencil
01-28-2011, 10:00 PM
Here's my exact quote smart guy:

Even if I had suggested we draft an OT in the first round, which I clearly didn't...

Jesus ****ing Christ, Footsteps. Read your own God damned thread title.




"How do we replace Ryan Harris? Draft Impact Question: OT in the First?"

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 10:09 PM
Jesus ****ing Christ, Footsteps. Read your own God damned thread title.




"How do we replace Ryan Harris? Draft Impact Question: OT in the First?"
Do you not understand the difference between posing a question to get people talking and stating something as an affirmative? I posted clearly in my OP that I was open to all suggestions and looking for someone to suggest something that made it possible to NOT draft one that high. I then followed that up right away in post #5 well before Finkle came on here showing his ass, the following:
No kidding...I swear I read that he was released. That's been said on this board several times by different people. Well in any case, if they let his contract run out, is he coming back? And how do we know? I'd rather not have to spend a high pick on the O-line, maybe 3rd round.

The nature of text causes confusion sometimes but cripes, when someone clarifies what they mean and shows immediate evidence in the original post, why do people keep throwing **** against the wall trying to make something stick? Do we need a new fight that bad? It gets damn irritating having to re-state something you already said more than once because people don't ****ing READ.

~Crash~
01-28-2011, 11:08 PM
I wouldn't be upset if Harris didn't come back. You have to be able to rely on your players to be there to play their positions and Harris has been sporadic. I thought for a rookie Beadles did a decent job. We need to pick up one in the draft but not in the first.

You should take a look at the D they were the problem ,say oh the last ten years...

~Crash~
01-28-2011, 11:11 PM
If we take a tackle in the first, ill give up

I will get drunk as hell and taco will probably give me a time out...:sunshine:

~Crash~
01-28-2011, 11:12 PM
DL DL MLB SS and then we can take someone on the O side

~Crash~
01-28-2011, 11:17 PM
I never heard that he was released.

I hope they resign him, when healthy he has proven to be a beast in the right system.

Maybe they are waiting to hear the status of the CBA?

This would be my best guess. if the draft happens first and no CBA then we do not draft a OL then I could see a lot of pressure to sign all UFA we now have . but I could see them dragging there feet until the draft.

DarkHorse30
01-28-2011, 11:34 PM
. I never said I wanted to draft an OT in the first place, and I stated later in this short thread that I didn't want to. My question is what do we do if we lose Ryan Harris? Or do you want to just ignore the fact that we might not have him on the roster next year? Trades, FA signings...what?

Maybe promoting Clancy Barone to OL coach was one of the biggest mistakes of The-One-Who-Will-Not-Be-Named......especially when your entire OL is in NFL kindergarten together. Brilliant. And, by the way, let's teach the OL a different system than last year from a coach that has exactly ONE year of NFL OL coaching experience....ONE year......as an assistant, before being "promoted" to TE coach.

Thankfully, Baron is back at TE coach in Denver.....where he should be with star-tutelage of Crumpler and Gates under his belt.

So, to answer your question FF27, our new OL coach likely has a few tricks to teach his pupils, and has a bit of a track record of getting something out of nothing. http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/28497-lets-give-olc-dave-magazu-some-credit.html

As for Harris, if he can't stay healthy, sign him as a backup and FA a vet to Start (this team needs more experience on the line, more than anything).....maybe a guy like Doug Free from Dallas, who moved from RT to LT last year.

At this point, talking OL players is laughable in the 2011 draft, when our defense has been overlooked for years. Especially when TOWWNBN used his top 5 picks on offense last year.

SimonFletcher73
01-29-2011, 03:59 AM
I think Ryan Harris gets hurt when you type Ryan Harris. He's a :cowgirl:

gunns
01-29-2011, 05:33 AM
Well if Beadles stays over there, who plays the LG spot? I thought cutting that clown McD brought in was meant to slide Beadles in there. We're a top-flight O-lineman short even if we assume the rookies will improve, which I think they will. But is Beadles ready to be a starter there? If not, who can we get to start in free agency or trade?

Yes, I would prefer to keep Beadles at LG. He seemed to fit that position much better. We definitely need a RT but not in the first round of the draft, that's all.

Ray Finkle
01-29-2011, 05:44 AM
I then followed that up right away in post #5 well before Finkle came on here showing his ass, the following:



you started the thread going one way, when people bashed you, you changed your mind. It was a bad thread, take the beating and move on....it happens to us all.

gunns
01-29-2011, 05:50 AM
You should take a look at the D they were the problem ,say oh the last ten years...

Yes I know, look at my multiple posts stating that....I sound like a broken record. But the thread was not about that and I'm not necessarily condoning taking one in the draft....as the thread title suggested I merely stated not in the first round. I would be thrilled with an all D draft.

Ray Finkle
01-29-2011, 05:52 AM
Yes I know, look at my multiple posts stating that....I sound like a broken record. But the thread was not about that and I'm not necessarily condoning taking one in the draft....as the thread title suggested I merely stated not in the first round. I would be thrilled with an all D draft.

If they can trade around/acquire an extra 3rd or a 4th, there is some good RT value there....Standing pat, I would go the FA route though.

oubronco
01-29-2011, 05:58 AM
DL DL MLB SS and then we can take someone on the O side

Amen brotha

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 07:26 AM
you started the thread going one way, when people bashed you, you changed your mind. It was a bad thread, take the beating and move on....it happens to us all.
I'm finished with you as of right now. Here's the ORIGINAL POST and any idiot can tell what I'm saying...you're clearly looking for a fight, and frankly you're not worth the time.
Bottom line is, no matter how you look at it in terms of needing defense you can't leave your brand new baby QB's blind side unaccounted for. Now whether we do this in the draft, free agency or a trade it matters not to me but someone suggest some alternatives to them having to draft an OT high in this draft somewhere instead of spending it on a defensive pick.
See anybody posting in here yet by this time? See anyone bashing me or the thread by post #5? NO to both counts...you fail on every statement you make so far.

I swear, this is a perfect example of why so many good posters have left this place in the last year. Every jot and tittle of every sentence is run through a wringer until you think you have something to pick a fight over whether it makes a lick of sense or not. Well go find someone else to play with, you contributed NOTHING to this thread.

Ray Finkle
01-29-2011, 07:39 AM
I swear, this is a perfect example of why so many good posters have left this place in the last year. Every jot and tittle of every sentence is run through a wringer until you think you have something to pick a fight over whether it makes a lick of sense or not. Well go find someone else to play with, you contributed NOTHING to this thread.

I am not going to sink to bashing your as a poster. You constructed a poor title and opening post. That was simply my point. If you don't like what I have to write, put me on ignore and I will continue to drive "the good" posters away with my idiotic posts.

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 07:47 AM
So, to answer your question FF27, our new OL coach likely has a few tricks to teach his pupils, and has a bit of a track record of getting something out of nothing. http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/28497-lets-give-olc-dave-magazu-some-credit.html

As for Harris, if he can't stay healthy, sign him as a backup and FA a vet to Start (this team needs more experience on the line, more than anything).....maybe a guy like Doug Free from Dallas, who moved from RT to LT last year.

At this point, talking OL players is laughable in the 2011 draft, when our defense has been overlooked for years. Especially when TOWWNBN used his top 5 picks on offense last year.
Nice find on Magazu. How far has Ryan Harris fallen? Two years ago we were talking about him as a pro-bowler who was one of the top run blockers in just his second year. Now we're talking about him as a possible backup. The problem is, what if he won't sign here? We would then have a gaping hole at the blind side tackle and we're starting a QB who is still trying to get his mechanics right, as well as learn the system and how to read NFL defenses. That's a bad combination. In the short term, it makes the most sense to plug that hole with an experienced guy instead of a rookie, certainly for the next year or so. But at some point we have to find the peremenant solution with a young guy we draft. I'm more of a BPA kind of guy. I've seen to many failed draft picks selected for position over talent. The year before Matt Lepsis went down for good, I spent time in here trying to convince people that our LT spot was in dire need of attention due to microfracture knee surgery having a very spotty history of players returning the same as they were. I was laughed to scorn by multiple posters screaming about defense just like this thread. Then we took Clady, and nobody is sorry now. Imagine where we'd be without him?

The point of this thread; we need to solve this immediate problem NOW. How do we do it? I see all these generic answers..."get a free agent"...right. Who? Specifically...WHO? I'm trying to point out that we need something OTHER than a traditional slow footed RT who can't pass block speed rushers. We need a guy who is worthy of protecting Tebow's blind side. Someone tell me which free agent we ought to be looking at...which guy in trade...which sleeper pick in the 5th round, etc...I'm looking for solutions, suggesting some too...asking people to sort through all that and come up with sensible answers. Pointing out a coaching change will help and why...that's a start. Now who does he coach at the position?

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 07:51 AM
I am not going to sink to bashing your as a poster. You constructed a poor title and opening post. That was simply my point. If you don't like what I have to write, put me on ignore and I will continue to drive "the good" posters away with my idiotic posts.
Dude...I'm not responsible for your poor ability to understand the nuances of the English language. There's nothing wrong with either the title or the post, and I've already proven several times with direct quotes what was meant, yet you continue plugging your ears so you can't hear.

If you don't like the thread, why waste your time in here?

/END conversation with Ray Finkle.

baja
01-29-2011, 08:45 AM
Dude...I posted the thread title to spark discussion, not because I myself said I wanted to draft an OT in the first round. Had you read what I wrote you wouldn't have jumped to conclusions, thus looking stupid yourself now.

Whoops.

To be fair using drafting an OT in round one (where we have #2 unless we somehow trade down) as an option for discussion that amounts to no option because there is no way in hell that is going to happen therein lays the reason for all the flack. No need to discuss the impossible. ;D

misturanderson
01-29-2011, 08:57 AM
Specifically...WHO? I'm trying to point out that we need something OTHER than a traditional slow footed RT who can't pass block speed rushers. We need a guy who is worthy of protecting Tebow's blind side.

The thing is that we don't need what you're talking about against most teams. Somebody pointed out last year, when Tebow was first starting, that teams will still line up their best pass rusher against the left tackle and still have the better run stopper against the RT. They won't switch it up just because Tebow is left handed. It would be nice to have a better RT than most teams because Tebow won't see what's coming form that side, but it isn't this dire necessity that you are making it out to be.

RT or LG are positions that I wouldn't mind us looking at (one of them) anywhere after the 1st round. I would prefer defense, but a good OL goes a long way toward a successful offense. It would be ideal if they could keep Harris and he would stay healthy, but that can't be our only option at RT because he has yet to prove any semblance of an ability to stay healthy for a whole season. You can go look up a list of potential free agents just as easily as the rest of us, but until the CBA is worked out, we won't have any idea who is really available.

It would be pretty awesome if we could get Mankins away from NE and then move Beadles over. Getting an all-pro LG couldn't hurt our offense and would hopefully help out Walton as well as allowing us to move Beadles to RT without having to use a draft pick on an unknown player.

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 02:55 PM
The thing is that we don't need what you're talking about against most teams. Somebody pointed out last year, when Tebow was first starting, that teams will still line up their best pass rusher against the left tackle and still have the better run stopper against the RT. They won't switch it up just because Tebow is left handed. It would be nice to have a better RT than most teams because Tebow won't see what's coming form that side, but it isn't this dire necessity that you are making it out to be.
That's a pretty big assumption. Once Tebow starts to figue it out even more, he's going to motivate defensive adjustments in every game. Assuming teams will leave our weak pass blocking OT alone on Tebow's blind side because "they've always done that" is a recipe for a QB on IR if you ask me. We shouldn't treat Tebow's protection any different than we would with any other QB and that means protecting his blind side. On top of that, some teams have more than one good pass rusher at DE. The Colts for example...it matters not if "most teams" will fail to pick up on attacking from that side, because it only takes one to inflict damage on our QB and start a trend. On this very board we're talking about how to maximize Dumervil by moving him around like we used to with Mecklenburgh, so I don't understand the rational of ignoring a weakness in the offensive line when pass protection is critical. Teams go with blocking TE's, max protect package, they draft RB's who can block, etc...I'm suggesting we stock the RT spot with someone who can pass block and run block, and that seems like a no brainer to me.
It would be pretty awesome if we could get Mankins away from NE and then move Beadles over. Getting an all-pro LG couldn't hurt our offense and would hopefully help out Walton as well as allowing us to move Beadles to RT without having to use a draft pick on an unknown player.
I would say there is zero chance of us getting Logan Mankins. The only way the Patriots trade him is if there's something wrong and he's injured, etc...they're not going to let him go while he's still the player he is.

gyldenlove
01-29-2011, 03:19 PM
I would say there is zero chance of us getting Logan Mankins. The only way the Patriots trade him is if there's something wrong and he's injured, etc...they're not going to let him go while he's still the player he is.

Given that he will be a free agent and there is no telling how and if there will be any way to keep free agents from leaving he could very well be with a new team.

misturanderson
01-29-2011, 04:22 PM
That's a pretty big assumption. Once Tebow starts to figue it out even more, he's going to motivate defensive adjustments in every game. Assuming teams will leave our weak pass blocking OT alone on Tebow's blind side because "they've always done that" is a recipe for a QB on IR if you ask me. We shouldn't treat Tebow's protection any different than we would with any other QB and that means protecting his blind side. On top of that, some teams have more than one good pass rusher at DE. The Colts for example...it matters not if "most teams" will fail to pick up on attacking from that side, because it only takes one to inflict damage on our QB and start a trend. On this very board we're talking about how to maximize Dumervil by moving him around like we used to with Mecklenburgh, so I don't understand the rational of ignoring a weakness in the offensive line when pass protection is critical. Teams go with blocking TE's, max protect package, they draft RB's who can block, etc...I'm suggesting we stock the RT spot with someone who can pass block and run block, and that seems like a no brainer to me.

I would say there is zero chance of us getting Logan Mankins. The only way the Patriots trade him is if there's something wrong and he's injured, etc...they're not going to let him go while he's still the player he is.

You are blowing the whole "blind side" issue way out of proportion. You know which side the rush came from when Tebow got knocked out in college? His front side.

You are making far more assumptions than I am by claiming that teams are going to change the way they approach games against Tebow despite the fact that it has not held true against other lefty QBs. You find evidence that other teams have switched the side that their DEs attack from based on which hand the QB throws with and we can have this discussion further, but I think you'll have trouble.

If we are that worried about Tebow's blind side we'll just move Clady over to RT and get an RT to play LT. You are getting way too worked up over this.

listopencil
01-29-2011, 04:34 PM
Do you not understand the difference between posing a question to get people talking and stating something as an affirmative?

Do you understand what a "suggestion" is?



Even if I had suggested we draft an OT in the first round, which I clearly didn't...

You did suggest it in your thread title. It was a stupid suggestion and you've spent the better part of this thread trying to deny that you did it. Now you are lashing out at people for poor reading comprehension when they correctly read exactly what you posted. It isn't just the mindless fighting that drives people away from the Mane. It's also people who post things to get attention, then throw a hissy when it backfires on them.

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 04:35 PM
Given that he will be a free agent and there is no telling how and if there will be any way to keep free agents from leaving he could very well be with a new team.
Was he on that list? I don't recall seeing him on there...or is it projected he'll leave somehow?

listopencil
01-29-2011, 04:48 PM
Here ya go, Footsteps. Maybe this will help:


Definition of SUGGESTION

1a : the act or process of suggesting b : something suggested

2a : the process by which a physical or mental state is influenced by a thought or idea <the power of suggestion> b : the process by which one thought leads to another especially through association of ideas

3: a slight indication : trace (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trace) <a suggestion of a smile>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suggestion

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 04:48 PM
Do you understand what a "suggestion" is?

You did suggest it in your thread title. It was a stupid suggestion and you've spent the better part of this thread trying to deny that you did it. Now you are lashing out at people for poor reading comprehension when they correctly read exactly what you posted. It isn't just the mindless fighting that drives people away from the Mane. It's also people who post things to get attention, then throw a hissy when it backfires on them.
Do you understand that the thread title has not one, but TWO questions? A "?" is the same as a "." ...you know this, right?

Q1- "How do we replace Ryan Harris?"
Q2- "Draft Impact Question: OT in the First?"

If you go back and READ the actual stuff I posted IMMEDIATELY, you will find I separate those two questions and I state as much from the start, saying that I didn't care what solutions were presented, whether the draft, free agency or trades, but that I preferred to NOT take an OT any higher than 3rd round but was asking for suggestions about free agents, trades, etc to avoid the possibility. We're actually talking about two different things on this thread as well, something else you'll discover if you read what people are posting. One part of this thread talks about Ryan and alternatives, and the other talks about needing defense in the draft...pretty much like the title phrased it; two questions.

Your problem is what it usually is, you read the thread title, assume you know what the conversation is about and post something whether you read anything that was written in between or not. Nowhere in this thread have I suggested we should use the #2 pick on an OT. Nowhere in this thread have I suggested we should take an OT in the 1st round. Nowhere in this thread have I said we should not try to re-sign Ryan, or that this is the right time to start a rookie OT on Tebow's blind side. Dozens of places on this board I have said I want Patrick Peterson, and would not trade down. You're simply not grasping how the title was structured, why that's important, nor the fact that the posts that followed from me on this thread point blank dispute what you are saying I said.

/END Convo with listopencil

listopencil
01-29-2011, 04:54 PM
Q2- "Draft Impact Question: OT in the First?"



/END Convo with listopencil

I'm glad that you finally can admit that you suggested we draft an OT in the first round this year. Baby steps, little guy. Baby steps.

misturanderson
01-29-2011, 04:57 PM
Was he on that list? I don't recall seeing him on there...or is it projected he'll leave somehow?

He is a guard, hence why he isn't on the tackles list. He was a restricted free agent that completed his necessary number of games this year to be eligible for unrestricted free agency. The only way he stays is if the pats offer him the most money or tag him. He said so himself.

baja
01-29-2011, 04:59 PM
Do you understand that the thread title has not one, but TWO questions? A "?" is the same as a "." ...you know this, right?

Q1- "How do we replace Ryan Harris?"
Q2- "Draft Impact Question: OT in the First?"

If you go back and READ the actual stuff I posted IMMEDIATELY, you will find I separate those two questions and I state as much from the start, saying that I didn't care what solutions were presented, whether the draft, free agency or trades, but that I preferred to NOT take an OT any higher than 3rd round but was asking for suggestions about free agents, trades, etc to avoid the possibility. We're actually talking about two different things on this thread as well, something else you'll discover if you read what people are posting. One part of this thread talks about Ryan and alternatives, and the other talks about needing defense in the draft...pretty much like the title phrased it; two questions.

Your problem is what it usually is, you read the thread title, assume you know what the conversation is about and post something whether you read anything that was written in between or not. Nowhere in this thread have I suggested we should use the #2 pick on an OT. Nowhere in this thread have I suggested we should take an OT in the 1st round. Nowhere in this thread have I said we should not try to re-sign Ryan, or that this is the right time to start a rookie OT on Tebow's blind side. Dozens of places on this board I have said I want Patrick Peterson, and would not trade down. You're simply not grasping how the title was structured, why that's important, nor the fact that the posts that followed from me on this thread point blank dispute what you are saying I said.

/END Convo with listopencil

Would it be safe to assume that several people were confused by your thread title?

Would it be safe to assume that typing sorry if my title was confusing, my bad that all would say no problem, it's all good?

Is it safe to assume if you did this it would be more pleasurable for you?

listopencil
01-29-2011, 05:01 PM
So...I'm thinking of starting a thread titled:

"How do we replace Champ Bailey? Draft Impact Question: Peterson in the 1st?"

Then I'm going deny that I suggested it if anyone tells me it's a bad idea.

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 05:01 PM
You are blowing the whole "blind side" issue way out of proportion.
Easy for you to say...it's not YOU'RE blind side. ;D
You know which side the rush came from when Tebow got knocked out in college? His front side.
Meaningless stat, nice trivia question. It doesn't change the realities of the game.
You are making far more assumptions than I am by claiming that teams are going to change the way they approach games against Tebow despite the fact that it has not held true against other lefty QBs. You find evidence that other teams have switched the side that their DEs attack from based on which hand the QB throws with and we can have this discussion further, but I think you'll have trouble.

If we are that worried about Tebow's blind side we'll just move Clady over to RT and get an RT to play LT. You are getting way too worked up over this.
It doesn't have to even hold true that teams would switch their DE's, as I noted some teams have great pass rushers on both sides, an argument you ignored. Second, we've seen numerous examples of teams lining up their best pass rushing OLB in different spots, as well as other strategic gameplaned options, stunts, rover type players like Meck. We're even talking in here about how to spring Elvis more. Why risk having your worst pass blocker on the blind side of your QB if you don't have to? We can all agree that Ryan when healthy is a nice OT, but we can also agree that even if he does re-sign, his recent injury history is not encouraging, so why not be prepared for something you already know has been a problem? Or is it that you think it's not important to protect the blind side for some reason? I can't fathom why...but it's not a question necessarily of whether we have a great pass protector over there...because behind the guy who may or may not be on the field, we have really nobody who can play the position. I think that's pretty damn dumb to leave a glaring hole there in what amounts to a very important spot on the line for a left handed QB. If it was Elway would we want to leave him with mediocre protection on the left side? Of course not. This argument is really silly. It comes down to your personal preference, nothing more, yet people are up in arms over something this stupid. Is the board supposed to represent a place for any opinion or just those that fit with what some random band of populist censors thinks is cool?

This place is such a microcosm it's unreal.

listopencil
01-29-2011, 05:06 PM
Is the board supposed to represent a place for any opinion or just those that fit with what some random band of populist censors thinks is cool?

This place is such a microcosm it's unreal.

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/12/1/128726176164188704.jpg

misturanderson
01-29-2011, 05:13 PM
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/12/1/128726176164188704.jpg

No ****. I wonder why nobody is in here defending his crazy ass if he isn't the one that has no idea what the **** is going on.

misturanderson
01-29-2011, 05:17 PM
Easy for you to say...it's not YOU'RE blind side. ;D

Meaningless stat, nice trivia question. It doesn't change the realities of the game.

It doesn't have to even hold true that teams would switch their DE's, as I noted some teams have great pass rushers on both sides, an argument you ignored. Second, we've seen numerous examples of teams lining up their best pass rushing OLB in different spots, as well as other strategic gameplaned options, stunts, rover type players like Meck. We're even talking in here about how to spring Elvis more. Why risk having your worst pass blocker on the blind side of your QB if you don't have to? We can all agree that Ryan when healthy is a nice OT, but we can also agree that even if he does re-sign, his recent injury history is not encouraging, so why not be prepared for something you already know has been a problem? Or is it that you think it's not important to protect the blind side for some reason? I can't fathom why...but it's not a question necessarily of whether we have a great pass protector over there...because behind the guy who may or may not be on the field, we have really nobody who can play the position. I think that's pretty damn dumb to leave a glaring hole there in what amounts to a very important spot on the line for a left handed QB. If it was Elway would we want to leave him with mediocre protection on the left side? Of course not. This argument is really silly. It comes down to your personal preference, nothing more, yet people are up in arms over something this stupid. Is the board supposed to represent a place for any opinion or just those that fit with what some random band of populist censors thinks is cool?

This place is such a microcosm it's unreal.
So what you're saying is that even Ryan Clady isn't a good enough option to protect Tebow's blind side in this imaginary world of yours where defenses do anything to attack a QB's blind side because he was injured last year? Beadles played tackle in college, he is more than capable of playing tackle opposite of Clady if we let Harris leave. We will need another OL player in the draft or FA (tackle or left guard), but there is absolutely no need to pick one before addressing the defense in the draft.

Your ignorance of the game of football gets in the way of having a reasonable discussion with you. Have fun driving everyone else out of this thread.

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 05:25 PM
Would it be safe to assume that several people were confused by your thread title?

Would it be safe to assume that typing sorry if my title was confusing, my bad that all would say no problem, it's all good?

Is it safe to assume if you did this it would be more pleasurable for you?
Perhaps to all three but here's another safe to assume talking point; it's a lead pipe cinch that on virtually any thread you want to look at on tihs board, it's going to immediately or eventually be overrun by people posting on it that flat out did not read anything before they posted. Do you not see this constantly...seriously? It gets damned irritating in here to constantly have people read one sentence of something and then ignore everything that followed in launching a response. It's like talking to one of these customer service people that are trained to answer every question the same no matter what you say to them...no thanks, I'd rather ignore them and move on.

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 05:33 PM
So what you're saying is that even Ryan Clady isn't a good enough option to protect Tebow's blind side in this imaginary world of yours where defenses do anything to attack a QB's blind side because he was injured last year?
No that's what you're saying I'm saying, but what I'm saying is that we have a big ass hole on the right side of our offensive line in case our very injury prone ROT who is also going to possibly leave anyway...doesn't play like he did a couple years ago when he was healthy. Given that we have a young pup who we think is our franchise QB at long last playing while still learning to get his mechanics right, and given that he's drawn particular interest from some NFL defensive players who would like nothing more than to take him out, it seems incredible anyone would not see the problem and ask, "What do we do about this?"
Beadles played tackle in college, he is more than capable of playing tackle opposite of Clady if we let Harris leave. We will need another OL player in the draft or FA (tackle or left guard), but there is absolutely no need to pick one before addressing the defense in the draft.
Never said there was, nice straw man. Now as to Beadles, multiple people in here think he sucked ass as an OT in relief of Ryan. I frankly am not good enough to spot the intricacies of O-line play from my living room so I'll leave that one alone, but can you say he's ready to start based on what you saw? If so, how? I'd like to know why you think he's a tackle when he was projected as a guard, played at guard, was moved to tackle as an emergency basis, and now some think will move back to guard.

To many assumptions...
Your ignorance of the game of football gets in the way of having a reasonable discussion with you. Have fun driving everyone else out of this thread.
My ignorance...I see. Obviously you're an NFL genius, a Bill Walsh in disguise posting on a message board. ROFL!LOL:wave::welcome:

Austin Bronco Fan
01-29-2011, 05:46 PM
First, to address Ryan Harris, this is a tidbit from CBS:

RT Ryan Harris is among the teamís key free agents but comments this month by the front office appear to indicate Denver may be turning the page at his spot.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/DEN

While Harris is an excellent player at the position, it's hard to be effective from the sideline. At the very least, Denver needs to rebuild depth. If there is no CBA, but they play, it's likely FA's will remain on their teams.

If a new CBA is reached soon, then if Denver lets Harris go, we would need to address a replacement.

Now, the draft. Harris was drafted in the third round. #2 overall is far too early to think about o-line. Unless there's a sure shot like Clady out there (which I doubt) we could instead draft the next Gallery. There's a lot more downside risk than upside. Trade down to get more picks if possible, or go defense. Usually there is good value in the lower rounds at O-Line. No sense reaching here.

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 05:53 PM
First, to address Ryan Harris, this is a tidbit from CBS:



http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/DEN

While Harris is an excellent player at the position, it's hard to be effective from the sideline. At the very least, Denver needs to rebuild depth. If there is no CBA, but they play, it's likely FA's will remain on their teams.

If a new CBA is reached soon, then if Denver lets Harris go, we would need to address a replacement.

Now, the draft. Harris was drafted in the third round. #2 overall is far too early to think about o-line. Unless there's a sure shot like Clady out there (which I doubt) we could instead draft the next Gallery. There's a lot more downside risk than upside. Trade down to get more picks if possible, or go defense. Usually there is good value in the lower rounds at O-Line. No sense reaching here.
Thanks. You've validated what I was saying moments ago.

listopencil
01-29-2011, 06:05 PM
Thanks. You've validated what I was saying moments ago.

Are you sure?


"Now, the draft. Harris was drafted in the third round. #2 overall is far too early to think about o-line. Unless there's a sure shot like Clady out there (which I doubt) we could instead draft the next Gallery. There's a lot more downside risk than upside. Trade down to get more picks if possible, or go defense. Usually there is good value in the lower rounds at O-Line. No sense reaching here."


Looks he thinks you suggested we draft an OT in the 1st just like everyone else who clicked on this thread. I can't imagine how that happened...maybe because you suggested it.

baja
01-29-2011, 06:27 PM
Perhaps to all three but here's another safe to assume talking point; it's a lead pipe cinch that on virtually any thread you want to look at on this board, it's going to immediately or eventually be overrun by people posting on it that flat out did not read anything before they posted. Do you not see this constantly...seriously? It gets damned irritating in here to constantly have people read one sentence of something and then ignore everything that followed in launching a response. It's like talking to one of these customer service people that are trained to answer every question the same no matter what you say to them...no thanks, I'd rather ignore them and move on.

It's human nature to be lazy. That is why it is important for the success of the thread to carefully construct you OP because most people will not read every following post.

I got that you were throwing out for discussion rather or not we should use a 1st rd pick on an OL player. The question mark told me that but evidently many people got the impression you were suggesting we use a 1st rd pick to replace Harris. When there are several people reading it that way you have to take responsibility for the confusion. It is silly of you to be mad at then or assume them slow because they missed your intention. What we have here is a failure to communicate

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1fuDDqU6n4o" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

footstepsfrom#27
01-29-2011, 06:39 PM
It's human nature to be lazy. That is why it is important for the success of the thread to carefully construct you OP because most people will not read every following post.

I got that you were throwing out for discussion rather or not we should use a 1st rd pick on an OL player. The question mark told me that but evidently many people got the impression you were suggesting we use a 1st rd pick to replace Harris. When there are several people reading it that way you have to take responsibility for the confusion. It is silly of you to be mad at then or assume them slow because they missed your intention. What we have here is a failure to communicate
Fine...what about the 10,000 other places on here where there is no title confusion, and people just don't freaking read a damn thing before they post. Case in point, the obvious confusion over what my last comments meant...flew right over their heads. I'm tired of constantly having to repeat **** because people won't look at something right in front of their face.

Carry on.

Beantown Bronco
01-30-2011, 08:12 AM
Fine...what about the 10,000 other places on here where there is no title confusion, and people just don't freaking read a damn thing before they post. Case in point, the obvious confusion over what my last comments meant...flew right over their heads. I'm tired of constantly having to repeat **** because people won't look at something right in front of their face.

Carry on.

To be fair, not only was the thread title misleading to several posters, but your very first sentence, the one in which you based the ENTIRE post and thread on, was flat out wrong. We DID NOT part ways with Harris.....not yet, at least.

Riley
01-30-2011, 11:07 AM
I think Elway made a comment suggesting that we'd need to bring in a RT to replace Harris. That doesn't mean thought that we cant just bring Harris back. It seems like he wants to return. He's great in a zone blocking scheme (perhaps our best run blocker).

The problem with Harris is the injuries. This wouldn't be such a huge deal if we weren't going with a left handed QB. However you can't have an oft injured OT guarding your QB's blind side.

I don't think there is any chance we go OT early in the draft. I think its either Harris or another Free Agent.

Since Harris seems to want to come back and might come at a lower cost I think we'll likely end up bringing him back and just look to add some solid depth either at G (behind Beadles) or at Tackle.

This makes the most sense....^^^^^^^

Remember... when a guys contract is up... the negotiation process makes both sides posture and strut. They are both looking to get the best deal they can.

The dang CBA deal is making this a crazy off season. The draft will be done BEFORE free agency for the first time ever.

We can't trade Orton or DJ for 2011 draft picks... with only 6 picks I expect we will be trading down. Somebody will want to move up to snag Peterson.

footstepsfrom#27
01-30-2011, 11:25 AM
To be fair, not only was the thread title misleading to several posters, but your very first sentence, the one in which you based the ENTIRE post and thread on, was flat out wrong. We DID NOT part ways with Harris.....not yet, at least.
Which of course is immaterial to the crux of the question, nor does it contribute to any kind of missunderstanding, but thanks for "being fair". Anyone can read that i stated I didn't want to address this in the draft if possible, or at least not before the 3rd round if we had to.

I'd still like some reasonable suggestions. So far I have,"We're not going to draft an OT with the #2 pick", and "Logan Mankins in free agency", whose a guard not a tackle, and I doubt NE will make it easy for anyone, let alone Denver to walk in ahd grab him.

Just suggesting free agency wasn't the point, that's obvous. I want to kinow who people think we ought to go after and why.

Requiem
01-30-2011, 12:29 PM
Jesus Christ, OT -- Bethlehem.

I hear he has quick feet and quite the arm span.

Beantown Bronco
01-30-2011, 12:51 PM
Which of course is immaterial to the crux of the question.

Immaterial to the crux of the question?!? Holy crap, dude. Did you forget the question?

I'll repeat it for you. You wrote:

I don't know why this hasn't been talked about much in here yet but in case anyone missed it, we parted ways with Ryan Harris. This brings up two interesting questions, 1) Who made this move? It was pre-Fox so it makes me ask, and 2) What do we do about replacing the guy who would have protected Tebow's blind side?


1. NOBODY MADE THE MOVE. There was no move.

2. What do we do about replacing a guy that hasn't left? How about nothing?

gyldenlove
01-30-2011, 01:06 PM
Jesus Christ, OT -- Bethlehem.

I hear he has quick feet and quite the arm span.

Yeah, but he can be absolutely nailed in place some times.....:thumbs:

baja
01-30-2011, 02:02 PM
Yeah, but he can be absolutely nailed in place some times.....:thumbs:

So would be be the new Nails?

DarkHorse30
01-30-2011, 02:35 PM
In the short term, it makes the most sense to plug that hole with an experienced guy instead of a rookie, certainly for the next year or so. But at some point we have to find the peremenant solution with a young guy we draft.

The point of this thread; we need to solve this immediate problem NOW. How do we do it? I see all these generic answers..."get a free agent"...right. Who? Specifically...WHO? I'm trying to point out that we need something OTHER than a traditional slow footed RT who can't pass block speed rushers. We need a guy who is worthy of protecting Tebow's blind side. Someone tell me which free agent we ought to be looking at...

As I mentioned in my first post, Doug Free is a FA from Dallas that may be a candidate to replace the oft-injured Harris. He replaced an injured Columbo at RT (7 games) and was moved to LT last year to replace Flozell Adams. Cowboys like him, but he is a FA. http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20110118-sturm_s-cowboys-analysis-doug-free-could-be-nfl_s-third-best-lt.ece

Another less likely option is Clabo....but I imagine the Falcons will lock him up with a giant contract

footstepsfrom#27
01-31-2011, 12:46 AM
Immaterial to the crux of the question?!? Holy crap, dude. Did you forget the question?

I'll repeat it for you. You wrote:



1. NOBODY MADE THE MOVE. There was no move.

2. What do we do about replacing a guy that hasn't left? How about nothing?
It's immaterial becaue the potential problem exists either way, and the initial error has nothing to do with people comprehending simple English, or being to lazy to read.

He can't stay on the field, so whether he stays or goes, we still have to take his medical issues into account, which means we need an immediate plan B since he's not a guy we can reliably count on at this point. His reliability was in doubt before, and it's doubly in doubt given that we now will be tasked with protecting the blind side.

footstepsfrom#27
01-31-2011, 01:10 AM
As I mentioned in my first post, Doug Free is a FA from Dallas that may be a candidate to replace the oft-injured Harris. He replaced an injured Columbo at RT (7 games) and was moved to LT last year to replace Flozell Adams. Cowboys like him, but he is a FA. http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20110118-sturm_s-cowboys-analysis-doug-free-could-be-nfl_s-third-best-lt.ece

Another less likely option is Clabo....but I imagine the Falcons will lock him up with a giant contract
Not sure but I think the Cowboys want Free to start for them. Maybe we can pry Jamal Brown away from Shanny. He's been a solid to pro bowl level tackle whose only 29 now, but coming off an injury in 2009 he got traded because the Saints decided to go with Jermon Bushrod at LT in his place. Brown has no history of injury except for missing one season, but he appears to be making a decent comeback. Even though he was hurt in 2009 he was still on a team that won the Superbowl, and I like bringing that experience to the O-line with all these pups they have now.

BroncoMan4ever
01-31-2011, 09:37 AM
They didn't really "part ways" with Harris. They just let his current contract run out. It's the same with Champ Bailey. His contract has run out, and he's not currently under contract.

Speculation I've seen from various speculating internet sources, says Harris is probably coming back.

he'll be back. injury concern will drive the demand for him down as well as the price tag and we can bring him back on a 2-3 year deal while he attempts to drive his dollars up for his next contract.

with all the needs on Defense and quite possibly the running game, it would not make sense to allow another hole to open up on the offense.

fontaine
01-31-2011, 01:54 PM
While we're at it, why not cut/trade Walton and Beadless too as they graded out as the worst OL for Denver?

After all there's no point in being patient and expecting an OL to gel and improve over time. Who cares if Harris is just 25 and entering into the prime of his career? He's missed some games due to injury so screw it lets move on and look for that next instant quick fix just like we've been looking along the defense.

Sounds like a fool proof plan to me.

Also, get rid of Burton and McBath. Those two scrubs are constantly injured and couldn't beat out an aging Dawkins. Yeah, that's how you build a franchise by instant Madden like moves that are bound to work out.

BroncoInferno
01-31-2011, 02:14 PM
While we're at it, why not cut/trade Walton and Beadless too as they graded out as the worst OL for Denver?

After all there's no point in being patient and expecting an OL to gel and improve over time. Who cares if Harris is just 25 and entering into the prime of his career? He's missed some games due to injury so screw it lets move on and look for that next instant quick fix just like we've been looking along the defense.

Sounds like a fool proof plan to me.

Also, get rid of Burton and McBath. Those two scrubs are constantly injured and couldn't beat out an aging Dawkins. Yeah, that's how you build a franchise by instant Madden like moves that are bound to work out.

I agree with what you are saying in principle, but when deciding how to invest your dollars, you have to be careful. Yes, Harris has a lot of talent and is only 25, but he has also had significant injury issues in 3 of his 4 seasons with with Denver. He also had injury issues at Notre Dame. It's tough to look at that history and say, "OK, let's invest a 5 year multi-million contract on that guy." It's fair to question at this point whether or not we can ever depend on him for a full season. To me, it depends on what the market is for Harris. If other teams take a skeptical eye to the injury history as well, we might be able to bring him back on a one year deal to buy some time to evaluate the situation. If he makes it through next season without issue and is playing at a high level, then make a larger investment. If he doesn't, then I think you have to move on. If some team offers him a multi-year contract with a large bonus this offseason, I think you have to pass. You don't want to invest a lot of money to a guy who is always in the MASH unit.

PRBronco
01-31-2011, 02:25 PM
I agree with what you are saying in principle, but when deciding how to invest your dollars, you have to be careful. Yes, Harris has a lot of talent and is only 25, but he has also had significant injury issues in 3 of his 4 seasons with with Denver. He also had injury issues at Notre Dame. It's tough to look at that history and say, "OK, let's invest a 5 year multi-million contract on that guy." It's fair to question at this point whether or not we can ever depend on him for a full season. To me, it depends on what the market is for Harris. If other teams take a skeptical eye to the injury history as well, we might be able to bring him back on a one year deal to buy some time to evaluate the situation. If he makes it through next season without issue and is playing at a high level, then make a larger investment. If he doesn't, then I think you have to move on. If some team offers him a multi-year contract with a large bonus this offseason, I think you have to pass. You don't want to invest a lot of money to a guy who is always in the MASH unit.

Ok, saying it again because no one seems to pay attention. Yes, he had a back injury at Notre Dame. One. One that he played through, and finally addressed after his rookie season in Denver. Then he was healthy until someone in the trenches stepped on and dislocated his big toe. This understandably nagged him for a long time. Then last year he got rolled up on and ****ed up his knee (or was it ankle?). Either way, this isn't some Courtney Brown, Boss Bailey, Darcel McBath exploding player type ****, this is just stuff that happens in the trenches sometimes. Letting him go would be a huge mistake.

listopencil
01-31-2011, 04:19 PM
and the initial error has nothing to do with people comprehending simple English, or being to lazy to read.


No, the problem is that you just won't admit that you're wrong. You suggested that the Broncos draft an Offensive Tackle in the first round with your thread title. Blaming everyone else for your "mistake" doesn't make them lazy or unable to read. It just makes you a fool.

Ray Finkle
01-31-2011, 04:58 PM
No, the problem is that you just won't admit that you're wrong. You suggested that the Broncos draft an Offensive Tackle in the first round with your thread title. Blaming everyone else for your "mistake" doesn't make them lazy or unable to read. It just makes you a fool.

This....

fontaine
02-01-2011, 03:53 AM
I agree with what you are saying in principle, but when deciding how to invest your dollars, you have to be careful. Yes, Harris has a lot of talent and is only 25, but he has also had significant injury issues in 3 of his 4 seasons with with Denver. He also had injury issues at Notre Dame. It's tough to look at that history and say, "OK, let's invest a 5 year multi-million contract on that guy." It's fair to question at this point whether or not we can ever depend on him for a full season. To me, it depends on what the market is for Harris. If other teams take a skeptical eye to the injury history as well, we might be able to bring him back on a one year deal to buy some time to evaluate the situation. If he makes it through next season without issue and is playing at a high level, then make a larger investment. If he doesn't, then I think you have to move on. If some team offers him a multi-year contract with a large bonus this offseason, I think you have to pass. You don't want to invest a lot of money to a guy who is always in the MASH unit.


Every single team in the league protects itself in contracts with future roster, workout, and number of snaps played bonuses. No one drops a huge contract on any player with no strings attached.

I think it's patently stupid to be ready to discard a young premiere RT who has a better chance at protecting Tebow's blind side for the next 7 years than some untried/untested rookie or Zane Beadles who was mediocre at Guard after being beaten out by Harris at RT.