PDA

View Full Version : If we have to take a defensive linemen in the first and Fairley is gone, how about trying to trade.


KevinJames
01-28-2011, 12:03 AM
Trade back with the Texans get some picks and take Aldon Smith.

this guy is a terror to block, and if we play 3-4 or 4-3 he can fit, I sort of reminds me of D Ware hes just dominates sometimes out there, RS sophmore but theres enough talent out there to warrant a first round pick.

heres just some film from the Colorado game.
<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LTyDrwMkV-c" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

broncocalijohn
01-28-2011, 12:09 AM
First, everyone looked good against Colorado. 2nd, while trading back can still get us some great front 7, why this guy over the others that are targetted top 10 to 15?

SoCalBronco
01-28-2011, 12:11 AM
Trade back and back and back and back. If we're not picking before 20, that's perfectly fine. Just keep accumulating.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 12:15 AM
Trade back and back and back and back. If we're not picking before 20, that's perfectly fine. Just keep accumulating.
Belay that order...and set a course for Patrick Peterson. ;D

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 12:18 AM
First, everyone looked good against Colorado. 2nd, while trading back can still get us some great front 7, why this guy over the others that are targetted top 10 to 15?
Not really. He's beating Nate Solder, expected to be the top OT in the draft and he's a freshman in this video.

Nice.

I'd rather trade up not down, and I"d rather go for Stephen Paea if he's there somewhere after 15.

SoCalBronco
01-28-2011, 12:21 AM
Belay that order...and set a course for Patrick Peterson. ;D

lol

Jetmeck
01-28-2011, 12:42 AM
Look I'd prefer D line help as ours is a joke and has been for years. That said Peterson would be great too cause he looks outstanding and Champ is starting to get older and lets face it the other corner never was up to par anyway. As long we concentrate on defense, defense and more defense I am thrilled.....................

The Joker
01-28-2011, 12:45 AM
If Fairley is gone at #2 (or if the FO don't think he's worth the selection, for that matter) then I'd be all for trading down a few spots and adding another nice pick or two while still grabbing one of the premier prospects in the draft.

I don't like the idea of just trading down again and again for the sake of accumulating dozens of mid-round picks unless there's absolutely nobody we like in the top 10 which, looking at this draft class, seems a more or less impossible scenario.

If you have a chance at what you think can be an elite player, you don't trade out of that spot.

cabronco
01-28-2011, 12:46 AM
I'm for trading back, back, as we nee alot of help on the defensive side of the ball. Also I noticed every team in the playoffs had a good go to TE. I think we must acquire one, either by draft or free agency. The end.

cutthemdown
01-28-2011, 12:48 AM
If Broncos could trade back, still get Dareus, and pick up a late 2nd rounder or early 3rd in the process I would be all over it. Then we could afford to draft Kyle Rudolph with one of the 2nd rounders and get a big front 7 guy. Then maybe we could also get the UCLA safety. Well now I am being silly but its nice to dream about fixing DT, FS, TE all on day one of the draft.

Ratboy
01-28-2011, 12:55 AM
Trade back and back and back and back. If we're not picking before 20, that's perfectly fine. Just keep accumulating.

Accumulating trash?

I know how you love your draft picks, but it has done NOTHING for us.

cutthemdown
01-28-2011, 01:01 AM
Well the only reason I would say drop down is if we could stay in top 5. Don't go lower then the cards pick. The draft trade chart a little out of date but it still is a good jumping off point. The difference between the 2 hole and the 5 hole is 900 points which equals a late first round pick.

If we could drop, still get Dareus, and get another first round pick i would do it. There are some sure fire starters like Stefan Wiesnewski and Rudolph that will go late first early 2nd. If we could somehow get Dareus, Wise, the rudolph top of 2nd, oh man that would be so epically huge I can't imagine it happening. Both Rudolph and Wise will be very very good nfl starters and would fill a need for us.

cutthemdown
01-28-2011, 01:02 AM
The big WR Green and Peterson could both be wildcards. Some team could want one of them enough to deal with us. Too bad Luck didnt come out that really screwed us.

Drek
01-28-2011, 05:13 AM
Rather have Dareus than Fairley myself.

bowtown
01-28-2011, 05:14 AM
Yeah trade back from #2. Piece of cake. Wonder why no one has ever tought of it before. Has anyone let Kubiak know about this plan? I'm sure he'll be thilled.

Ray Finkle
01-28-2011, 05:19 AM
in order to trade back, someone has to want to trade up....If Fairley is gone, take Bowers or Dareus.

Trading back to accumulate picks only works if you can get value. Other wise it is a waste.

tsiguy96
01-28-2011, 06:23 AM
dont see anyone wanting to trade up. there will be a rookie cap in place this year so its more likely than in years past, but still.

Kaylore
01-28-2011, 06:47 AM
I'm waiting for the combine to flesh things out, but I wouldn't mind trading back for more picks.

oubronco
01-28-2011, 06:56 AM
Rather have Dareus than Fairley myself.

I'm with you on this take Dareus then grab Paea or Taylor and if we get lucky we could still get a good mlb

primetime714
01-28-2011, 07:07 AM
I like the idea of trading back to #5 with Arizona. I think they may jump at the chance to grab a QB (Gabbert). Assuming that is the case at #5 we'd be guaranteed at least one of Peterson, Bowers, or Dareus would still be there.

Although if Bowers is the real deal I'd be totally fine with taking him at #2. I could live with Peterson at 2 also since I think he's the safest bet in this entire draft. I like Dareus, but I don't know that he has the upside to be the 2nd pick in the draft. I think he'll be a real solid player in this league, but at #2 I'd want a player that can be a game changer.

BowlenBall
01-28-2011, 07:27 AM
Trade back and back and back and back. If we're not picking before 20, that's perfectly fine. Just keep accumulating.

Completely agree -- if we can trade back to around #20, pick up two more #2 picks, AND get either Cory Luiget or Stephen Paea at the later slot.... makes too much sense NOT to do it, and I'll be very disappointed in the FO if they don't.

This draft is way too deep at our primary area of need (defensive line) to stay pat.

bowtown
01-28-2011, 07:32 AM
Completely agree -- if we can trade back to around #20, pick up two more #2 picks, AND get either Cory Luiget or Stephen Paea at the later slot.... makes too much sense NOT to do it, and I'll be very disappointed in the FO if they don't.

This draft is way too deep at our primary area of need (defensive line) to stay pat.

You do realize that trading back isn't soley up to the FO, right? Wit hthe players on the board, it is going to be vvery very difficult for us to trade out of that spot.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-28-2011, 07:35 AM
Accumulating trash?

I know how you love your draft picks, but it has done NOTHING for us.

Because during the next two months, he and all the other over the top draftniks will each identify approximately 84 players that each think fit the Broncos. Then we'll have to listen to an "I told you so" if any of them do anything during their rookie seasons.

cmhargrove
01-28-2011, 07:36 AM
If the Front Office does their job, Orton could yield us another second round pick. Three second round picks would be a lot of ammo, and could either jump us back into the first round, or help rebuild the defense with youth.

WIth all the unsettled QB situations, I just don't see how Orton doesn't get unloaded for decent compensation.

tsiguy96
01-28-2011, 07:37 AM
You do realize that trading back isn't soley up to the FO, right? Wit hthe players on the board, it is going to be vvery very difficult for us to trade out of that spot.

no question. there isnt a guy that is irreplaceable, that can only be had from our spot taht makes this spot attractive. the #5-8 spots have prime areas to move back because of guys like dareus, gabbert, prince etc, but not #1-4.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-28-2011, 07:38 AM
Completely agree -- if we can trade back to around #20, pick up two more #2 picks, AND get either Cory Luiget or Stephen Paea at the later slot.... makes too much sense NOT to do it, and I'll be very disappointed in the FO if they don't.

This draft is way too deep at our primary area of need (defensive line) to stay pat.

If they trade back from the 2nd overall to the 20th pick and only acquire 2 more 2nd round picks, the entire FO should be fired on the spot.

and there's a reason some guys go in the Top 5 and other go in the 20's. If Liguet or Paea were so ****ing good and players to build around, they wouldn't be late 1st round picks at this point.

But it's the offseason and it's draft time, we're going to have to listen to **** like this for another 2 months and how the Broncos should make 9 trades to acquire 17 more picks, all at the bottom half of each round and play the shotgun approach.

Kaylore
01-28-2011, 07:41 AM
I'm going to take a stab and say Herc is against trading back.

montrose
01-28-2011, 07:47 AM
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't like the idea of trading back. The problem is finding a partner willing to do a deal - I can't remember the last time a top-3 pick was dealt. Maybe Vick? There was the Eli-Rivers swap after the guys were drafted, but that's about all I can remember.

oubronco
01-28-2011, 07:47 AM
I say take Dareus with #2 then Taylor or Paea early 2nd and hope like hell Jones is there with our other 2nd Defense is fixed with a few FA's mixed in

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 07:48 AM
I like the idea of trading back to #5 with Arizona. I think they may jump at the chance to grab a QB (Gabbert). Assuming that is the case at #5 we'd be guaranteed at least one of Peterson, Bowers, or Dareus would still be there.
I like this idea IF we are certain we can get the guy we want, and I'm not sure we can do that. If so, and if we could land Peterson at #5 plus pick up a late 1st rounder, that would be great. Two or three years from now people will be buzzing about perhaps 10 players in this draft. It's almost a certainty that Peterson is one of them. I'm convinced more than ever that today's NFL is about having playmakers. Look at the Packers and Steelers...loaded with playmakers. I think Fairley is a playmaker but he scares me a little as to where his head is at. Dareus and Paea I think will wind up being almost the same player in the NFL, a very good inside run stuffing tackle that will penetrate the interior O-line and pick up an occasional sack or TFL. I see them as more stable than Fairley but with marginally less potential. Green...no way. The only other guy I can see possibly interesting them at #2 is Bower but he presents overlap issues since we don't even really know what Ayers is going to become. The wild card is this kid from A&M and I dearly hope they're not taking him, not because he's not a good player but he's 237 pounds and I think that's as big as he gets, and we need beef on this unit. If it's an LB they want I'd rather have Akeem Ayers who will probably play 30 pounds bigger than Miller and has roughly the same speed. He's a dynamic playmaker and I think his ceillng is higher.
Although if Bowers is the real deal I'd be totally fine with taking him at #2. I could live with Peterson at 2 also since I think he's the safest bet in this entire draft. I like Dareus, but I don't know that he has the upside to be the 2nd pick in the draft. I think he'll be a real solid player in this league, but at #2 I'd want a player that can be a game changer.
Agreed.

Dedhed
01-28-2011, 08:07 AM
If we're going to pigeon hole ourselves by saying we have to take a DL first, we better trade back.

UberBroncoMan
01-28-2011, 08:07 AM
A. Smith... didn't we have one of those?

Kaylore
01-28-2011, 08:08 AM
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't like the idea of trading back. The problem is finding a partner willing to do a deal - I can't remember the last time a top-3 pick was dealt. Maybe Vick? There was the Eli-Rivers swap after the guys were drafted, but that's about all I can remember.

That was at least partly because of the guaranteed money they came with. The new CBA will make trading back much more doable.

baja
01-28-2011, 08:16 AM
If Fairley is gone at #2 (or if the FO don't think he's worth the selection, for that matter) then I'd be all for trading down a few spots and adding another nice pick or two while still grabbing one of the premier prospects in the draft.

I don't like the idea of just trading down again and again for the sake of accumulating dozens of mid-round picks unless there's absolutely nobody we like in the top 10 which, looking at this draft class, seems a more or less impossible scenario.

If you have a chance at what you think can be an elite player, you don't trade out of that spot.

I like what we did last draft. Target the players we want to get and trade up and /or dow to get them in a pace of value. After a questionable first season I thought McDs draft last year was masterful in the way he manipulated the positioning.

Dedhed
01-28-2011, 08:16 AM
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't like the idea of trading back. The problem is finding a partner willing to do a deal

I don't think that's necessarily the reason. I've been saying that in any draft there are only 2-3 truly elite players, and then a ton of guys who can be great if they find good matches for their skill set.

I think the lack of trades is due more to the idea that when teams have a chance to get one of those truly elite talents, they don't pass it up very often.

BroncoInferno
01-28-2011, 08:17 AM
The wild card is this kid from A&M and I dearly hope they're not taking him, not because he's not a good player but he's 237 pounds and I think that's as big as he gets, and we need beef on this unit.

If we are switching back to a 4-3, 240 pounds is about the average for an OLB.

baja
01-28-2011, 08:31 AM
Luck staying in school really set us back. Carolina would have taken him and we would have been left with what amounts to the first pick in this years draft (at second pick prices) It also means there if Carolina did not select him we could have gotten a kings ransom from some QB hungry team to trade the pick. Now our best bet is to have someone want to jump Buffalo for a QB.

bowtown
01-28-2011, 08:32 AM
That was at least partly because of the guaranteed money they came with. The new CBA will make trading back much more doable.

That's assuming there is a CBA in place by that time. If there isn't, I'd expect even less trading, as everone will be opperating with caution.

jhns
01-28-2011, 08:35 AM
No. I would much rather just pick at the top and get the second best prospect. Plus, how many times have top 5 picks been traded in recent years?

Hercules Rockefeller
01-28-2011, 08:42 AM
I'm going to take a stab and say Herc is against trading back.

Just not out of the Top 6 or 7

Rohirrim
01-28-2011, 08:44 AM
I just want a player who turns this defense around, goes to ten pro-bowls, and leads the defensive line for 14 years of glory. Whichever guy that is, I leave it to the FO to decide.

baja
01-28-2011, 09:14 AM
I just want a player who turns this defense around, goes to ten pro-bowls, and leads the defensive line for 14 years of glory. Whichever guy that is, I leave it to the FO to decide.

That guy went last year.

OBF1
01-28-2011, 09:20 AM
The Mane is in full dumbass mode today.

How in the world is Denver going to trade back and stay in the top 10.... AND still get another 1st round pick??? Only New England has 2 first round picks this year and they are #17 and #28.

To get "value" using the old draft value chart, not only would NE have to give Denver both first round picks, they would also have to give us #33 and #60 over all to make it fair according to the charts to get #2 overall from us.

But keep dreaming kids, there is no place like home.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-28-2011, 09:30 AM
Normally I'm all for trading back, but not this year. As someone mentioned, as of now, it looks like there's three elite players in this draft. I'd like one of them. Hopefully the CBA gets done and we can acquire picks with some of our tradable assets (Orton, DJ, and id be a huge supporter of trading Gaffney if we could get a 3rd out of him).

SonOfLe-loLang
01-28-2011, 09:30 AM
The Mane is in full dumbass mode today.

How in the world is Denver going to trade back and stay in the top 10.... AND still get another 1st round pick??? Only New England has 2 first round picks this year and they are #17 and #28.

To get "value" using the old draft value chart, not only would NE have to give Denver both first round picks, they would also have to give us #33 and #60 over all to make it fair according to the charts to get #2 overall from us.

But keep dreaming kids, there is no place like home.

Having said the above, Id take that deal :D

primetime714
01-28-2011, 09:32 AM
I like this idea IF we are certain we can get the guy we want, and I'm not sure we can do that. If so, and if we could land Peterson at #5 plus pick up a late 1st rounder, that would be great. Two or three years from now people will be buzzing about perhaps 10 players in this draft. It's almost a certainty that Peterson is one of them. I'm convinced more than ever that today's NFL is about having playmakers. Look at the Packers and Steelers...loaded with playmakers. I think Fairley is a playmaker but he scares me a little as to where his head is at. Dareus and Paea I think will wind up being almost the same player in the NFL, a very good inside run stuffing tackle that will penetrate the interior O-line and pick up an occasional sack or TFL. I see them as more stable than Fairley but with marginally less potential. Green...no way. The only other guy I can see possibly interesting them at #2 is Bower but he presents overlap issues since we don't even really know what Ayers is going to become. The wild card is this kid from A&M and I dearly hope they're not taking him, not because he's not a good player but he's 237 pounds and I think that's as big as he gets, and we need beef on this unit. If it's an LB they want I'd rather have Akeem Ayers who will probably play 30 pounds bigger than Miller and has roughly the same speed. He's a dynamic playmaker and I think his ceillng is higher.

Agreed.

Yea I totally agree we need a real playmaker with this pick not just a solid starter. The guys with that kind of upside for me are Bowers, Fairley, and Peterson. At least in a 4-3 scheme. At 2 I think we have to be looking at Bowers and Fairley first and foremost. If we're not confident in whichever of those guys is available at 2 our options are Peterson or a trade down. If we trade down to let's say 5 we're risking losing Peterson. The question is would the Bills or Bengals pick Peterson. I think the Bengals wouldn't, but the Bills might.

Regarding Bowers I think Ayers role should have no impact on our decision to choose or not choose Bowers. Ayers has proven nothing particularly in the 4-3 base scheme that we're likely to move to. I think he could potentially be a good fit as LDE in this scheme, but it wouldn't stop me from drafting an impact DE. Also let's remember that Doom is coming off an injury as well and the fact that depth at DE has never hurt a team. The Giants with their 3 DE's are proof of that.

Bigdawg26
01-28-2011, 09:34 AM
I would love to trade back to acquire some picks! I think we really need to be active and the only thing mcdaniels was good at was trading and acquiring draft picks. If that happens I would love to trade back a couple of slots to get peterson and get taylor in the second and other picks.

Dedhed
01-28-2011, 10:04 AM
Just curious which players from last year's draft would the "trade back" folks give up Suh for?

Rohirrim
01-28-2011, 10:36 AM
I think the Broncos should just stand pat. I would be happy with Fairley, Dareus, Bowers or Peterson at #2. I'm not too hung up on what scheme dictates what player. I think, like most teams, we'll be going with some kind of hybrid that allows for a wider range of sets. Maybe a multi-faceted player like Dareus would be the smartest pick among the linemen? Or just go with Peterson. The Broncos are very well situated in the second round to capture players that fall out of the first. Just go BPA on each pick.

Popps
01-28-2011, 10:39 AM
Rather have Dareus than Fairley myself.

Bingo.

Take him at 2, even if it's a couple spots hight. Get the guy we need and move on.

montrose
01-28-2011, 10:41 AM
That was at least partly because of the guaranteed money they came with. The new CBA will make trading back much more doable.

Very true. Here's a thought I had last night - assuming no CBA is reached by March and the lockout begins - the draft is still scheduled for April right? If so, it's possible the draft could come before FA - that would really shake things up!

I don't think that's necessarily the reason. I've been saying that in any draft there are only 2-3 truly elite players, and then a ton of guys who can be great if they find good matches for their skill set.

I think the lack of trades is due more to the idea that when teams have a chance to get one of those truly elite talents, they don't pass it up very often.

Good point.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 10:45 AM
If we are switching back to a 4-3, 240 pounds is about the average for an OLB.
So far what we hear is that it's going to be some kind of hybrid that utilizes both schemes. So I would think that would mean we'd prefer a bigger set of LB's and since we can play DJ Williams at his natural position and he's a bigger player, this doesnt' seem like a need spot anyway. Plus on top of this, we're already wondering how to make Elvis life in the 4-3 easier with putting talent next to him. I'm thinking that has to be addressed at the OLB spot as well because whoever is behind him is likely to see alot of runs coming their way. How good is this guy at the NFL level at fighting off tackels? I'm not sure...but i like the idea of picking a guy like Akeem Ayers later in the draft who is going to play at probably 265 pounds. That's a guy who could even switch up and play with his hand on the ground as well as being a big OLB with speed to cover downfield and range sideline-to-sideline or blitz. Given the way this team always seems undersized, I'd hope we are going bigger this time around.

Pick Six
01-28-2011, 12:44 PM
Accumulating trash?

I know how you love your draft picks, but it has done NOTHING for us.

Come on, now. You know you want the next Jarvis Moss...:rofl:

Requiem
01-28-2011, 01:50 PM
I'm a huge advocate of trading down, but the Broncos are in a position to land a legit blue-chip talent for the first time in years.

Each prospect has their flaws, but Dareus, Fairley and Bowers are all legitimate top ten talents and worth of a selection in that area. The most I'd trade down is a few spots, get an extra pick or so and have the ability to take one of the top three or four defenders in the draft.

Is it likely that players drafted behind these guys (Smith, Clayborn, Jordan, etc.) could become better pros on the DL? Sure, but who knows how it will all pan out?

At this point in time, if Fairley goes #1 -- it comes down to Dareus or Peterson for me. Bowers doesn't have that explosive first step that will allow him to rack up insane sack numbers as a professional, he is definitely plays his best as a read and react defender.

Dareus in the middle upgrades our DL immensely. It gives Dumervil some room to shine, and probably would allow Vickerson/Thomas (or another rookie) who can play the 3-tech to penetrate and use their skills accordingly. Ayers, or whomever starts at LDE would likely benefit as well.

For me, he is the best pick for the Broncos because he provides much added value in a variety of areas outside his own skillset.

I agree with Herc, trade down maybe to 6 or 7 -- but no further.

Grab an elite defender -- and use your other ammunition to do what you can.

gunns
01-28-2011, 06:59 PM
I'm for trading back, back, as we nee alot of help on the defensive side of the ball. Also I noticed every team in the playoffs had a good go to TE. I think we must acquire one, either by draft or free agency. The end.

The even more glaring thing to notice of the final 4 in the playoffs is defense. Knocked out the top QB's and offenses. Yes we need a TE but D is the it, the answer.

gyldenlove
01-28-2011, 07:05 PM
Bingo.

Take him at 2, even if it's a couple spots hight. Get the guy we need and move on.

It is market economy if someone wants him at 2 he is worth a 2, so if we grap him he has value.

mattob14
01-28-2011, 07:34 PM
I'm a huge advocate of trading down, but the Broncos are in a position to land a legit blue-chip talent for the first time in years.

Each prospect has their flaws, but Dareus, Fairley and Bowers are all legitimate top ten talents and worth of a selection in that area. The most I'd trade down is a few spots, get an extra pick or so and have the ability to take one of the top three or four defenders in the draft.

Is it likely that players drafted behind these guys (Smith, Clayborn, Jordan, etc.) could become better pros on the DL? Sure, but who knows how it will all pan out?

At this point in time, if Fairley goes #1 -- it comes down to Dareus or Peterson for me. Bowers doesn't have that explosive first step that will allow him to rack up insane sack numbers as a professional, he is definitely plays his best as a read and react defender.

Dareus in the middle upgrades our DL immensely. It gives Dumervil some room to shine, and probably would allow Vickerson/Thomas (or another rookie) who can play the 3-tech to penetrate and use their skills accordingly. Ayers, or whomever starts at LDE would likely benefit as well.

For me, he is the best pick for the Broncos because he provides much added value in a variety of areas outside his own skillset.

I agree with Herc, trade down maybe to 6 or 7 -- but no further.

Grab an elite defender -- and use your other ammunition to do what you can.

I really like the idea of moving down and grabbing Dareus. Not only is he an instant upgrade in the middle of the line, but he brings the versatility to make an impact in both fronts in a hybrid scheme.

oubronco
01-28-2011, 07:51 PM
Dareus is the best 5 tech as well so it gives more versatility in the hybrid defense

cutthemdown
01-28-2011, 10:21 PM
Yeah trade back from #2. Piece of cake. Wonder why no one has ever tought of it before. Has anyone let Kubiak know about this plan? I'm sure he'll be thilled.

Well no doubt the days of 3 spots being worth 900 points and a 1st round pick are over. Until team realize a 4-5 spots in first round only worth a low 2nd or 3rd you wont see it as much. But there is a slight chance it can happen if there are dynamic players at spots like QB, CB, WR, DE etc a team really wants.

at the 2nd spot there is a chance a team like cards would want to leap up. Its feasible.

Aftermath
01-29-2011, 04:38 PM
I like what we did last draft. Target the players we want to get and trade up and /or dow to get them in a pace of value. After a questionable first season I thought McDs draft last year was masterful in the way he manipulated the positioning.

agreed but lets do it with DEFENSIVE players this year :~ohyah!: