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View Full Version : Keth Burns to be retained, coaches self-scouting defense right now.


Kaylore
01-27-2011, 09:07 AM
Per 87.7 The Ticket. Couple of good tidbits.

Saying that Fox's staff is complete with Burns being retained on ST. He's the only coach that has been through Shanny, McD and now Fox. Also only person on staff left who was in SB years.

Xanders said all the coaches are doing self-evaluations and with the coaching staff hold overs explaining what they were trying to do. Once it is broken down they will have a meeting next Friday to go over team needs.

Elway at Senior Bowl with scouts right now. Xanders to fly out for the game only.

schaaf
01-27-2011, 09:12 AM
Is the coaching staff at the practices?

That makes me wonder why Xman isn't around

Chris
01-27-2011, 09:13 AM
They're probably late on some part of their prep which might be what Xanders is working on.

SpringStein
01-27-2011, 09:14 AM
Kaylore - I was under the impression listening to the interview that Xanders had been in Mobile and had just returned. Also talked about the draft saying his draft philosophy is to draft BPA at positions of need. In other words if they have graded a WR and a DE the same, and they were happy with their WRs, they would select the DE.

Also today Fox and the D staff are reviewing film from last year.

listopencil
01-27-2011, 09:26 AM
Kaylore - I was under the impression listening to the interview that Xanders had been in Mobile and had just returned. Also talked about the draft saying his draft philosophy is to draft BPA at positions of need. In other words if they have graded a WR and a DE the same, and they were happy with their WRs, they would select the DE.

Also today Fox and the D staff are reviewing film from last year.


It could also mean that they pass on a great CB and reach for a DT because that DT is the best one available. I think it's all smokescreen though.

illbroncsfn
01-27-2011, 09:32 AM
Glad to hear that Tick Burns is being retained

tsiguy96
01-27-2011, 09:33 AM
Is the coaching staff at the practices?

That makes me wonder why Xman isn't around

probably going over the current roster to set needs for the draft based on the new systems the team will be running, so he can then see live whats going on at the senior bowl and who might fit.

Kaylore
01-27-2011, 09:45 AM
Kaylore - I was under the impression listening to the interview that Xanders had been in Mobile and had just returned. Also talked about the draft saying his draft philosophy is to draft BPA at positions of need. In other words if they have graded a WR and a DE the same, and they were happy with their WRs, they would select the DE.

Also today Fox and the D staff are reviewing film from last year.

I'm listening at work and so may have missed that. I thought I heard him say he will fly out for the game.

And yes, they go BPA and then position of most need at that spot. Not a bad philosophy. Best of both worlds. Also said they like to bring in guys who they want to draft for a closer look. Also said they bring guy in just to throw people off what they're doing. The last two years they have worked out everyone we drafted at Dove Valley. I like this because while it tips your hand quite a bit, it also gives you an idea of how they are going to be as players here.

NFLBRONCO
01-27-2011, 09:48 AM
funny thing is top best players are jrs this year. I do like our new approach actually going to these practices and games now.

bendog
01-27-2011, 09:53 AM
It concerns me that they are attempting to explain what they were trying to do last year. They shouldn't do that. Whatever they were trying to do was a mistake.

Austin Bronco Fan
01-27-2011, 10:07 AM
It concerns me that they are attempting to explain what they were trying to do last year. They shouldn't do that. Whatever they were trying to do was a mistake.

That's the whole purpose of a self-evaluation. Then it's analyzed to find out why some things worked, and why others didn't. It's a way to prevent the same mistakes from repeating.

It would concern me a LOT more to retain all these coaches, and NOT analyze what they did and why.

cmhargrove
01-27-2011, 10:27 AM
Kaylore - I was under the impression listening to the interview that Xanders had been in Mobile and had just returned. Also talked about the draft saying his draft philosophy is to draft BPA at positions of need. In other words if they have graded a WR and a DE the same, and they were happy with their WRs, they would select the DE.

Also today Fox and the D staff are reviewing film from last year.

That's gotta hurt. Hope they can drink some beer before watching that film, they'll need it...

serious hops
01-27-2011, 10:34 AM
Elway at Senior Bowl with scouts right now. Xanders to fly out for the game only.

Makes sense. John will need somebody to fetch beers and nachos so he doesn't miss any of the action.

yerner
01-27-2011, 10:46 AM
I wonder if they make Xanders pay for his own ticket.

meangene
01-27-2011, 10:48 AM
Xanders is busy evaluating the stadium menu against the staff's food preferences. He will be arriving with his food value chart in tow.

crush17
01-27-2011, 11:32 AM
I'm listening at work and so may have missed that. I thought I heard him say he will fly out for the game.

And yes, they go BPA and then position of most need at that spot. Not a bad philosophy. Best of both worlds. Also said they like to bring in guys who they want to draft for a closer look. Also said they bring guy in just to throw people off what they're doing. The last two years they have worked out everyone we drafted at Dove Valley. I like this because while it tips your hand quite a bit, it also gives you an idea of how they are going to be as players here.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/QA-With-Brian-Xanders/dd7e98e7-d61b-4694-89df-97eaf5e64ea7


Link to Q & A with Brian Xanders. He just got back from Mobile recently.
I wouldn't be surprised if he flew back out for the game though.

Kaylore
01-27-2011, 12:07 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/QA-With-Brian-Xanders/dd7e98e7-d61b-4694-89df-97eaf5e64ea7


Link to Q & A with Brian Xanders. He just got back from Mobile recently.
I wouldn't be surprised if he flew back out for the game though.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Lestat
01-27-2011, 12:24 PM
sounds as if there is a lot of excitement around dove valley these days. hopefully it carries over to the field and gets this franchise back on track.

Requiem
01-27-2011, 01:03 PM
Yeah.

Xanders was out there, he's back now, but he'll be at the game.

Also, that Q&A states our draft board right now has ~ 250 names, but it will become smaller.

footstepsfrom#27
01-27-2011, 01:46 PM
Is the coaching staff at the practices?

That makes me wonder why Xman isn't around
You know how long it takes to fetch a dozen pizzas?

PRBronco
01-27-2011, 02:12 PM
You know how long it takes to fetch a dozen pizzas?

Especially when he has to go back because they forgot the spicy sausage.

/xanders frown face

cutthemdown
01-27-2011, 02:15 PM
It concerns me that they are attempting to explain what they were trying to do last year. They shouldn't do that. Whatever they were trying to do was a mistake.

wrong again. Think about it. By explaining what they were asking the players to do the new coaches can evaluate how they performed. They may say well you asked this guy to cover in a zone and obviously hes not good at it. Let's not ask said player to do much zone defending next yr, or lets get him off the field.

But then they might say he did really well when we let said player play the TE man to man. So 1 on 1 hes pretty good, in a zone he stinks, thats what they want to find out.

you do that by breaking down last yrs film, but also reviewing game plans so you know what players were being asked to do. Then you see how well they did that by watching film.

The football acumen on the mane is pretty low. Lets try and start thinking before you say things like going over last yrs game plans is stupid.

bendog
01-27-2011, 02:17 PM
Oh, I can understand reviewing film to find out who sucks and who hopelessly sucks, but I think it's a given they cannot run or stop the run.

cutthemdown
01-27-2011, 02:19 PM
I think by reviewing what coaches were trying to do, you can then better understand what you see on film, and then make a better evaluation on the players.

Sorry about my post though it came off like an ass like usual. :)

listopencil
01-27-2011, 02:20 PM
By explaining what they were asking the players to do the new coaches can evaluate how they performed.


That's how I understood it.

cutthemdown
01-27-2011, 02:23 PM
One thing I noticed last yr was that the safetys seemed to always be wondering where they were supposed to be. I wonder what the gameplan was with them sometimes because they never seemed to be comfortable with their jobs. Then ball would snap and they never seemed to be in a good position to stop big plays. Even running plays. Plays that should have been an easy stop at 5-7 yrds became catch the guy from behind after 30 yrds.

We really need to evaluate the safetys and nicklebacks and get a better plan. Maybe they are all just too old and slow. I think Dawkins and Hill would be better off let go unless these new coaches think they were just lined up wrong all yr. Hell I don't know why I'm not smart enough when it comes to x's and o's or even how to really watch film. But I can see that they are always out of position and seemed confused at the snap.

I want my safetys like Dennis Smith and Atwater, just flying around at the snap scaring the **** out of rbs and wrs.

cutthemdown
01-27-2011, 02:29 PM
That's how I understood it.

There is always a chance players we think suck could be decent if put in the right spots and given the right job.

It's sort of like that with singers in music which is all i really know. Some of them can kill it doing something like rock, but ask them to sing a jazz song and they fall apart. It's all about giving people something to do they can be good at. That is how you build a strong team. IMO it seems like Broncos are more lets see if the guy is good at it, rather then really evaluating the player and tailoring a job for what he does well.

For instance IMO they left roster with no pass recieving TE, then when asked to do that the TE we had sucked. Not fair to expect a blocking TE to suddenly be a great receiver.

Now we all hate Quinn and Graham when maybe its just because they were asked to do something they arent good at.

cutthemdown
01-27-2011, 02:29 PM
I'm hoping new staff smarter and does less square peg into round hole. I would really like to shed my pessimism and join the homers. I just want team to win.

Kaylore
01-27-2011, 02:31 PM
wrong again. Think about it. By explaining what they were asking the players to do the new coaches can evaluate how they performed.
It's this and sorry if it wasn't clear but I assumed it was self evident. They aren't evaluating because they thought last year was so totally awesome they want to duplicate it. They want to know what they have and make an assessment going forward on who to cut, who to re-sign, who to draft, basically how to rebuild going forward.

PRBronco
01-27-2011, 02:32 PM
I'm hoping new staff smarter and does less square peg into round hole. I would really like to shed my pessimism and join the homers. I just want team to win.

Yeah the sentiment I'm getting from what I've read is that they'll be using whatever holes fit these crazy pegs we have :thumbs:

ward63
01-27-2011, 03:16 PM
I'd like to see one small adjustment to the coaching staff now. Well one more add somehow...

AdamSchefter (http://twitter.com/#%21/AdamSchefter) Adam Schefter



Baltimore released its QB coach Jim Zorn today. Not a fit for either side. Zorn is expected to draw interest from other teams.

bendog
01-27-2011, 03:25 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/coaches/Adam-Gase/cc4c3c3f-8bb4-41b0-bb63-9788bf10b751

I think Gase was a good move. The WR coach logically is the guy most familar with what the brothers McD were working on with Tebow since Tebow was throwing to the WRs runnign the routes the bros McD wanted run. He's been a qb coach before, and arguably moving from wr to qb coach is not a lateral move, but if Tebow suceeds this guy's resume will get a big boost.

listopencil
01-27-2011, 03:40 PM
Boooooo-urns.

listopencil
01-27-2011, 03:42 PM
Now we all hate Quinn and Graham when maybe its just because they were asked to do something they arent good at.


Yep, pretty much. Although I still like Graham. I liked him when we signed him and I still appreciate him. I wish we had interior O-Linemen that blocked as well as he does.

CEH
01-27-2011, 03:47 PM
They are breaking down game film by assignment or/and jersey number. The retained coaches from last year are outlining the defensive calls and formations while the new coaches evaluate an indivual player or the defense as a whole

Broncos_OTM
01-27-2011, 07:09 PM
That's the whole purpose of a self-evaluation. Then it's analyzed to find out why some things worked, and why others didn't. It's a way to prevent the same mistakes from repeating.

It would concern me a LOT more to retain all these coaches, and NOT analyze what they did and why.

Is your avatar the lead singer of old crowe medicine show?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1gX1EP6mG-E" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

KipCorrington25
01-27-2011, 07:12 PM
Is the coaching staff at the practices?

That makes me wonder why Xman isn't around

Elway's dog had a vet appointment, his car needed waxing, and his dry cleaning was due. :giggle:

Broncos_OTM
01-27-2011, 07:13 PM
One thing I noticed last yr was that the safetys seemed to always be wondering where they were supposed to be. I wonder what the gameplan was with them sometimes because they never seemed to be comfortable with their jobs. Then ball would snap and they never seemed to be in a good position to stop big plays. Even running plays. Plays that should have been an easy stop at 5-7 yrds became catch the guy from behind after 30 yrds.

We really need to evaluate the safetys and nicklebacks and get a better plan. Maybe they are all just too old and slow. I think Dawkins and Hill would be better off let go unless these new coaches think they were just lined up wrong all yr. Hell I don't know why I'm not smart enough when it comes to x's and o's or even how to really watch film. But I can see that they are always out of position and seemed confused at the snap.

I want my safetys like Dennis Smith and Atwater, just flying around at the snap scaring the **** out of rbs and wrs.hills biggest advantage was supposed to be his smarts and lineing up the defense under nolan. i was impressed. under wink not so much .... i think in alot of reguards the problem with scheme. wether that be because MCD or wink not really sure.

tsiguy96
01-27-2011, 07:15 PM
im still curious waht effect mcd had on the defense in first 6 weeks compared to final 10, if any change occurred at all or if the talent just started to get exposed.

Dedhed
01-27-2011, 08:23 PM
Xanders is busy evaluating the stadium menu against the staff's food preferences. He will be arriving with his food value chart in tow.

Hahaha. That is very original and funny. hahaha

Dedhed
01-27-2011, 08:24 PM
You know how long it takes to fetch a dozen pizzas?

Hahahaha. That is very original and funny. Hahahaha

Dedhed
01-27-2011, 08:25 PM
Elway's dog had a vet appointment, his car needed waxing, and his dry cleaning was due. :giggle:

Hahaha. That is very original and funny. Hahahaha

Dedhed
01-27-2011, 08:38 PM
It could also mean that they pass on a great CB and reach for a DT because that DT is the best one available. I think it's all smokescreen though.


When I think of BPA at position of need, I think of it like this:

You have a list of positions of need ranked. You have a list of players ranked.

So say you have DL and CB listed as positions of equal need. Now say you grade Peterson as the #1 defensive player in the draft, and Bowers #2. If both are on the board you take Peterson.

Now say you have Peterson and Bowers ranked equally as players, but you rank DL as a higher priority, then you take Bowers.

Where I see it get difficult is when you rank Peterson higher than Bowers, but have DL as a higher priority need.

My personal philosophy, and what I think is more in line with the "BPA at a position of need" credo, is that you don't really rank the need positions specifically. You simply go into the draft saying we need a DT, a safety, a corner, an ILB and then when the pick comes around you take whichever player you have ranked the highest at any of those positions.

I think going the other way around is putting the cart before the horse. Take 2002 for example. We selected a WR, RB, DL, S, WR, TE, CB, DL.

In my view we ranked WR as a priority need, and chose to fill that need instead of taking the BPA at any of the positions who was clearly Ed Reed. To me when you make a draft order based on the position and not on the player, you invariably end up reaching.

cmhargrove
01-27-2011, 08:52 PM
When I think of BPA at position of need, I think of it like this:

You have a list of positions of need ranked. You have a list of players ranked.

So say you have DL and CB listed as positions of equal need. Now say you grade Peterson as the #1 defensive player in the draft, and Bowers #2. If both are on the board you take Peterson.

Now say you have Peterson and Bowers ranked equally as players, but you rank DL as a higher priority, then you take Bowers.

Where I see it get difficult is when you rank Peterson higher than Bowers, but have DL as a higher priority need.

My personal philosophy, and what I think is more in line with the "BPA at a position of need" credo, is that you don't really rank the need positions specifically. You simply go into the draft saying we need a DT, a safety, a corner, an ILB and then when the pick comes around you take whichever player you have ranked the highest at any of those positions.

I think going the other way around is putting the cart before the horse. Take 2002 for example. We selected a WR, RB, DL, S, WR, TE, CB, DL.

In my view we ranked WR as a priority need, and chose to fill that need instead of taking the BPA at any of the positions who was clearly Ed Reed. To me when you make a draft order based on the position and not on the player, you invariably end up reaching.

Oh noe you di'unt...

Dedhed
01-27-2011, 09:08 PM
Oh noe you di'unt...

O yeyas I diyud!

cutthemdown
01-28-2011, 12:57 AM
hills biggest advantage was supposed to be his smarts and lineing up the defense under nolan. i was impressed. under wink not so much .... i think in alot of reguards the problem with scheme. wether that be because MCD or wink not really sure.

Thats why Im not going to freak if the new coaches think some of the players I see as crap as being serviceable. I will wait and see how they play in a new scheme.

I'd really love to see DJ back at the weakside, Doom and Ayers at dend, then find some big DT and a huge SSL to fill out the size problem of doom. Put doom wide in a 5 technique and then we just need some DT can that play 2 gap. That will allow doom to stay wide in a technique that will make him deadly.

I'm telling you guys he can get 15 sacks from the dend spot just like he can from OLB but it will take some DT who can play more then 1 gap.

Then we can line Ayers up just right on the TE and hopefully our backers can run to the ball.

I think its too much to hope we can retool both the dline and the backers. Better to just try and find a stud DT then try and find some help at FS and nickelback. Thats assuming champ stays.

serious hops
01-28-2011, 01:22 AM
Or maybe Dennis Allen turns out to be a crazed dog who literally dreams up ways to create pressure while he sleeps, and he finds ways to line Doom up all over the field. That would be cool.

broncocalijohn
01-28-2011, 02:08 AM
I wonder if they make Xanders pay for his own ticket.

Well, if you buy 100 pizzas at Pizza Hut, you get a free continental flight. Zanders thought it was a free continental breakfast so he isnt too happy about making the trip down to Alabama.

listopencil
01-28-2011, 02:19 AM
When I think of BPA at position of need, I think of it like this:...



Yeah, but see we are right back where we started from. How does our FO rank these prospects? And how are they ranking our most pressing needs? I honestly don't know the answers, and I think they aren't really giving anything away in these interviews.

Hotwheelz
01-28-2011, 02:27 AM
Hahaha. That is very original and funny. Hahahaha
If you're looking for original or funny then look elsewhere.

Kaylore
01-28-2011, 06:41 AM
In my view we ranked WR as a priority need, and chose to fill that need instead of taking the BPA at any of the positions who was clearly Ed Reed. To me when you make a draft order based on the position and not on the player, you invariably end up reaching.

Safety was a need too that year. And we took a couple. This wasn't a case of not identifying the need. This was a case of the front office continuing it's long string of poor draft decisions.

Dedhed
01-28-2011, 07:38 AM
Safety was a need too that year. And we took a couple. This wasn't a case of not identifying the need. This was a case of the front office continuing it's long string of poor draft decisions.
That's what I'm saying. They had clearly identified S and WR as needs, but instead of taking the BPA available at either of those positions, they had identified WR as a greater need, and took the best WR available.

That's my issue with the "We have to take DL first" crowd. When you pigeon hole yourself like that, you end up with Ashley Lelie, Deltha O'neal, and Willie Middlebrooks instead of Ed Reed, Reggie Wayne, and Julian Peterson.

In 2000 the Broncos passed on Julian Peterson, Kieth Bullock, and Chris Hovan in order to take Deltha O'neal and then took LB and DL later in the draft. I can't imagine that the scouts had O'neal rated higher, but went in that direction because they ranked CB as the #1 need. So instead of getting the best player, they get the best CB. It's the recipe that Shanahan followed, and it led to terrible results.

Kaylore
01-28-2011, 07:43 AM
I agree with you, but it comes back to how you evaluate. If they rated Lelie higher or the same as Ed Reed, then that's an error on the Broncos. If you have two players available, both fill a need, one fills a need a more than the other but the lower need is the better player then you take the better player every time. And for those that say that Lelie and Ed Reed were rated the same, I understand but Lelie couldn't play ST and Ed Reed was a star there so I think versatility alone is a tie breaker in those instances.

Dedhed
01-28-2011, 07:49 AM
Yeah, but see we are right back where we started from. How does our FO rank these prospects? And how are they ranking our most pressing needs? I honestly don't know the answers, and I think they aren't really giving anything away in these interviews.

See, my point is that you should not rank needs, merely identify them. Then take the BPA on the board at any of those positions.

Dedhed
01-28-2011, 08:05 AM
I agree with you, but it comes back to how you evaluate. If they rated Lelie higher or the same as Ed Reed, then that's an error on the Broncos. If you have two players available, both fill a need, one fills a need a more than the other but the lower need is the better player then you take the better player every time. And for those that say that Lelie and Ed Reed were rated the same, I understand but Lelie couldn't play ST and Ed Reed was a star there so I think versatility alone is a tie breaker in those instances.
That's true, but it's hard for me to think that professional scouts would rank Lelie over Reed; or Deltha over Julian Peterson, Chris Hovan, and Kieth Bullock.

If you look at the Broncos' history you get the distinct impression that they went into the draft with a philosophy of "We'll take a WR in round one, a RB in round two, a DB in round three, etc.

footstepsfrom#27
01-28-2011, 08:17 AM
Burns was fun to watch on special teams for us, a head hunter who did it on sheer hustle. I hope he can knock some fight into this unit.

Kaylore
01-28-2011, 09:06 AM
That's true, but it's hard for me to think that professional scouts would rank Lelie over Reed; or Deltha over Julian Peterson, Chris Hovan, and Kieth Bullock.

If you look at the Broncos' history you get the distinct impression that they went into the draft with a philosophy of "We'll take a WR in round one, a RB in round two, a DB in round three, etc.

"All D-line" like everyone wanted in '07 and ironically want again this year. Yeah, that's a bad philosophy.

bowtown
01-28-2011, 09:14 AM
Burns was fun to watch on special teams for us, a head hunter who did it on sheer hustle. I hope he can knock some fight into this unit.

He hasn't exactly done a bang up job of that so far.