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The Joker
01-25-2011, 01:32 AM
With the hire of Allen as DC it now seems pretty much a foregone conclusion that we'll be switching back to a 4-3 defense over the coming offseason.

And with that, you can be assured that a genuine MIKE linebacker has just climbed very high on our list of offseason needs.

But where exactly are we going to get one?

Joe Mays is a 2-down ILB in a 3-4, nothing more. He doesn't have anywhere near the range needed to be a real MIKE, especially in a John Fox scheme which requires the LB's to be good cover guys.

DJ Williams is not a MIKE linebacker. If they put him back there I'll be very upset. Not only does he not have the instincts and cerebral skills to play the position in any way effectively, but he's also a quality WLB. Sticking him at MIKE would not only assure us of crappy play from that position, but it would also deprive us of a quality starter at the WLB spot.

Would love to hear the opinions of some of the draftnicks around here on MIKE prospects in the coming draft. There doesn't seem to be any real blue chip prospects at the position from what I've read. Will there be anyone worth looking at with one our 2nd round picks?

I'd love to see us come away from our first three picks with

Fairley/Bowers
MIKE LB
DE/DT (depending on whether we get Bowers or Fairley in round 1)

However at the same time I don't want to see us reach for players just for the sake of need. If we have to wait a year to get a player we really like at MIKE, then so be it.

Ratboy
01-25-2011, 02:34 AM
I thought there was someone pointing towards a DJ Williams trade (was this before or after the coach hire?)

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
01-25-2011, 02:39 AM
Why is it a foregone conclusion? Allen also worked under Wade Phillips. I don't think anything is set in stone.

fontaine
01-25-2011, 02:53 AM
Why is it a foregone conclusion? Allen also worked under Wade Phillips. I don't think anything is set in stone.

Yeah I don't get that either.

Fox hasn't tied himself down to a 3-4 or 4-3 so I doubt he rules out an entire scheme based on the DC.

He's also said that he's going to sit down and evaluate the current roster and it's needs so depending on what he views as the strengths and weakenesses of our front 7, that's what's going to decide which way we go.

Ayers and Dumervil are our best players on the front 7 and they've had two years to develop as OLBs. You don't just throw that away because of the DC.

tsiguy96
01-25-2011, 03:31 AM
the guy from michigan state is said to be dropping in draft status because of his height.

Traveler
01-25-2011, 03:42 AM
If we do switch back to the 4-3, I'm hoping that we can somehow lure Jets ILB David Harris here in FA. That's all dependent on whom the Jets deem as priorities this offseason.

Haroldthebarrel
01-25-2011, 03:47 AM
Is it just me or do any of you also believe that the future of nfl defenses is hybrid 3-4, 4-3?
the way the rules favor the pass nowadays you are usually in nickle or dime more often than base anyways.
The base formations is to an extent obsolete as you are more often in those extra db formations thus making these formatiions really the base.

Haroldthebarrel
01-25-2011, 03:50 AM
If we do switch back to the 4-3, I'm hoping that we can somehow lure Jets ILB David Harris here in FA. That's all dependent on whom the Jets deem as priorities this offseason.

Lol pipe dream. If they dont resing him they'll be stupid.
I'll give you my pipe dream wish. Denver signs Harris and Whitner and drafts Fairly. Then you put the rest of your draft picks on defense unless there is a offensive BPA.:)

The Joker
01-25-2011, 04:14 AM
Why is it a foregone conclusion? Allen also worked under Wade Phillips. I don't think anything is set in stone.

Fox has always run a 4-3 to the best of my knowledge, and the other two serious candidates we seemed to look at (Mora and McDermott) were 4-3 guys also. I'd agree that nothing is set in stone, but I'd be absolutely stunned if we announced we were going with a 3-4.

The only drawback to switching to a 4-3 at this point is Dumervil then becomes less of an asset in the base defense. Still, with the amount of snaps teams play in the nickel these days you can afford to have a pass rush specialist on big money IMO. Build some quality depth at the DE spot so we don't need him in there every down and can keep him fresh.

Ayers has spent two years developing as an OLB, this is true. But honestly he does seem like his best fit is as a LDE to me. Should be no issue switching him back.

Harris won't get near FA I shouldn't think, Jets will sign him up in a flash.

montrose
01-25-2011, 04:26 AM
If the team does move back to a 4-3 (I'm expecting some sort of hybrid this year), the MLB is going to be such an imperative position. The reason Philly dealt Mays was he couldn't cover enough gound to be a 4-3 MLB - but he's a good fit in the 3-4. On the roster currently, Haggan's probably the closest thing to a 4-3 MLB but that could be a receipe for disaster. DJ would be back at his natural WLB position and I could see Haggan fitting in at SLB - or that's a position you can find a guy in free agency. But man that MLB spot will be tough to fill.

And for those worrying about Elvis - don't. IF he's healthy, I think you'll see him mighty productive in any defense. Fox always made the most of Julius Peppers and I expect he'll do the same with Doom.

Ratboy
01-25-2011, 04:52 AM
I am curious why people keep saying "if" about the 4-3 defense.

John Fox made it clear what we're running when he was hired. He drew on a whiteboard about his defense (it was a 4-3).

Ratboy
01-25-2011, 04:55 AM
If the team does move back to a 4-3 (I'm expecting some sort of hybrid this year), the MLB is going to be such an imperative position. The reason Philly dealt Mays was he couldn't cover enough gound to be a 4-3 MLB - but he's a good fit in the 3-4. On the roster currently, Haggan's probably the closest thing to a 4-3 MLB but that could be a receipe for disaster. DJ would be back at his natural WLB position and I could see Haggan fitting in at SLB - or that's a position you can find a guy in free agency. But man that MLB spot will be tough to fill.

And for those worrying about Elvis - don't. IF he's healthy, I think you'll see him mighty productive in any defense. Fox always made the most of Julius Peppers and I expect he'll do the same with Doom.

I wonder how the lineup will look with Ayers and Dumervil.

Are they going to cover the ends, a trade could be possible, maybe move one to linebacker?

Ray Finkle
01-25-2011, 05:13 AM
the guy from michigan state is said to be dropping in draft status because of his height.

that's Jones.....he's probably 230 but I like him if he is there with the 2nd 2 rounder.

Jesterhole
01-25-2011, 05:26 AM
I don't think we'll be a pure 3-4 or 4-3 team. We really don't have the personnel to fill out either effectively. We'll be in some qasi-transitional state this year, with a bunch of rooks and young guys getting a chance to develop.

driver
01-25-2011, 05:40 AM
MLB is absolutely critical in either 3-4 or 4-3. If you don't have a god backer in that slot nothing works. Speed, smarts, Agression. A couple of guys in the senior bowl this weekend Herzlich from B.C., and Moch from Nev, Miller from A&M, have impressed me.
Herzlich has been injured, Miller never played MLB, Moch don't no if he has the smarts, but physically they are all good, and they all show the attitude it takes to play the middle.
MIller is a first round pick anywhere from #8 to #15.
The other 2 are 3rd rounders.

Also the big safety from Neb. Hagg is playing he might be worth watching.

Missouribronc
01-25-2011, 05:53 AM
If this team is going to improve on defense, they need a better presence inside than D.J. Williams. He's a great (yes, I said great) weak-side, and that's where he'd be best, is at weak-side in a 4-3.

Are Ayers and Dumervil good enough to go every down at DE in a 4-3? Dumervil can obviously rush the passer, but he's a liability in run stopping, and Denver doesn't have the linebackers to back him up right now.

A solid middle linebacker, that is the play caller and the leader of the defense would go a long ways in making this defense better. The Broncos have to find one, imo.

schaaf
01-25-2011, 06:36 AM
I think we need to take a look at Greg Jones with one of our 2nd rounders.

Carmelo15
01-25-2011, 06:37 AM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1027/ncf_g_matthews11_576.jpg

Slade
01-25-2011, 06:40 AM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1027/ncf_g_matthews11_576.jpg

Notes from the senior bowl:

CASEY MATTHEWS is not the athlete his brother PACKERS/CLAY MATTHEWS is. In fact he may not have the size and/or athleticism to ever start in the NFL, but he値l play at the pro level. He has very quick feet, and good balance. He looked excellent in some of the LB drills that emphasize footwork. He finds the ball and is fearless going after it. I知 seeing him as a sub-package LB and a Special teams star, at the least.

http://www.pigskinpaul.com/Pigskin_Pauls_Place/Home/Entries/2011/1/24_ALL-STAR_ACTION_2011.html

primetime714
01-25-2011, 06:44 AM
I think we need to take a look at Greg Jones with one of our 2nd rounders.

Agreed. I'm a big fan. He's a bit undersized, but a great playmaker.

In Free Agency I could see us going after a guy like Kirk Morrison to fill the position. Harris would be great too, but I don't think we'll pony up the cash to go after him with so many other needs.

Slade
01-25-2011, 06:47 AM
Orie Lemon from Okla St sounds like a stud who we could get in a later round cause he was injured last season. He did play in the East/West Shrine game and was dominate.

ORIE LEMON/ILB/OKLAHOMA STATE/6’1/245

LEMON is at the top of my list this season of guys who I see with strong football skills, but who get little or no love from most DRAFT analysts. He shows an uncanny ability to find the football and make plays. That includes a surprising skill at dropping into solid pass coverage over the short middle of the field. He is highly productive, if not an absolute tackling machine. He finished the 2010 season as the 3rd leading tackler in the country playing D1 ball, with 101 solo tackles. He also showed the ability to get into the backfield with 9 TFL, and 2 1/2 sacks. There is no way I can keep this guy out of my TOP 100 Prospect list. If you doubt his athleticism because of his weight, please keep in mind that he was a HS QB. He was once again all over the field making tackles in the ALAMO BOWL. If he can measure up to the bigger names in Indy he could surprise in the DRAFT. How about a bit bigger version of GRADY BRACKETT for some NFL team n 2011.

http://www.pigskinpaul.com/Pigskin_Pauls_Place/Home/Entries/2011/1/5_WHO_CAUGHT_MY_EYE_2010.html

Missouribronc
01-25-2011, 06:47 AM
Notes from the senior bowl:

CASEY MATTHEWS is not the athlete his brother PACKERS/CLAY MATTHEWS is. In fact he may not have the size and/or athleticism to ever start in the NFL, but he値l play at the pro level. He has very quick feet, and good balance. He looked excellent in some of the LB drills that emphasize footwork. He finds the ball and is fearless going after it. I知 seeing him as a sub-package LB and a Special teams star, at the least.

http://www.pigskinpaul.com/Pigskin_Pauls_Place/Home/Entries/2011/1/24_ALL-STAR_ACTION_2011.html

Is he in the mold of his brother, a blitzing-type playmaker in a 3-4, or could he play in a 4-3 in the NFL?

I didn't watch enough of Oregon to know what type of defense they played. In the NC it looked like they were in nickel and dime the whole game, so that's probably not a good judge of what Mathews would be in the NFL.

It doesn't look like its a great draft for MLB talent, anyway. Interesting...Greg Lloyd, Jr., from UConn...anyone know anything about him?

LittleFloyd
01-25-2011, 06:52 AM
I don't think DJ will be the mike. Remember this, he may be in line for a 4 game suspension due to his DUI.

driver
01-25-2011, 06:55 AM
I think we need to take a look at Greg Jones with one of our 2nd rounders.

I agree about Jones, his ability and he will go in the 2nd rnd IMO,, but believe
we need to use our first 3 picks on 2 dt's and a rush end to get a line built.
I think we can get a mlb in the late 2nd or early 3rd rnds. we need more 2,3 rnd picks even a couple of 4th's would help, thats why I think we should trade back with that #2 overall and get more picks in lower rounds.

vancejohnson82
01-25-2011, 06:57 AM
Notes from the senior bowl:

CASEY MATTHEWS is not the athlete his brother PACKERS/CLAY MATTHEWS is. In fact he may not have the size and/or athleticism to ever start in the NFL, but he値l play at the pro level. He has very quick feet, and good balance. He looked excellent in some of the LB drills that emphasize footwork. He finds the ball and is fearless going after it. I知 seeing him as a sub-package LB and a Special teams star, at the least.

http://www.pigskinpaul.com/Pigskin_Pauls_Place/Home/Entries/2011/1/24_ALL-STAR_ACTION_2011.html

we also interviewed him yesterday at the Senior Bowl

cmhargrove
01-25-2011, 07:09 AM
Orie Lemon from Okla St sounds like a stud who we could get in a later round cause he was injured last season. He did play in the East/West Shrine game and was dominate.

ORIE LEMON/ILB/OKLAHOMA STATE/61/245

LEMON is at the top of my list this season of guys who I see with strong football skills, but who get little or no love from most DRAFT analysts. He shows an uncanny ability to find the football and make plays. That includes a surprising skill at dropping into solid pass coverage over the short middle of the field. He is highly productive, if not an absolute tackling machine. He finished the 2010 season as the 3rd leading tackler in the country playing D1 ball, with 101 solo tackles. He also showed the ability to get into the backfield with 9 TFL, and 2 1/2 sacks. There is no way I can keep this guy out of my TOP 100 Prospect list. If you doubt his athleticism because of his weight, please keep in mind that he was a HS QB. He was once again all over the field making tackles in the ALAMO BOWL. If he can measure up to the bigger names in Indy he could surprise in the DRAFT. How about a bit bigger version of GRADY BRACKETT for some NFL team n 2011.

http://www.pigskinpaul.com/Pigskin_Pauls_Place/Home/Entries/2011/1/5_WHO_CAUGHT_MY_EYE_2010.html

I atch a lot of Oklahoma State football and Lemon is a playmaker. I don't know if I would call him a "Thumper" type, but he is more like a sideline to sideline Al Willson type player. In a way, he could be similar to Vilma for the current Saints defense.

schaaf
01-25-2011, 07:33 AM
we also interviewed him yesterday at the Senior Bowl

We interviewed him? do you know of anyone else we interviewed

dbfan21
01-25-2011, 07:39 AM
Yeah I don't get that either.

Fox hasn't tied himself down to a 3-4 or 4-3 so I doubt he rules out an entire scheme based on the DC.

He's also said that he's going to sit down and evaluate the current roster and it's needs so depending on what he views as the strengths and weakenesses of our front 7, that's what's going to decide which way we go.

Ayers and Dumervil are our best players on the front 7 and they've had two years to develop as OLBs. You don't just throw that away because of the DC.

I thought it was also said that they may play a mix of 43 and 34.

dbfan21
01-25-2011, 07:40 AM
With the surprisingly solid play of the Green Bay LBs, Nick Barnett (ILB) may be available in the offseason. He could be a solid veteran pick-up.

Tombstone RJ
01-25-2011, 08:17 AM
Wonder if Larsen may be moved back into the LBer position. He might be a good fit for MLB.

Kaylore
01-25-2011, 08:19 AM
I am curious why people keep saying "if" about the 4-3 defense.

John Fox made it clear what we're running when he was hired. He drew on a whiteboard about his defense (it was a 4-3).

John Fox made it clear that he could do either one and it's more about spacing (or gaps) then about the actual scheme. I'm not sold we're doing anything until I see the free agents and players we draft.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2011, 09:14 AM
Lol pipe dream. If they dont resing him they'll be stupid.
I'll give you my pipe dream wish. Denver signs Harris and Whitner and drafts Fairly. Then you put the rest of your draft picks on defense unless there is a offensive BPA.:)

i agree that would be great, but i want a big RB with a bruising running style to take playing time away from Moreno.

as much work as the D needs, our running game still has to be addressed. i am not comfortable with any of the backs on the roster.

Moreno-injury prone and not an every down back
Buck-old and showing that age
Maroney-hard to play while in prison also he sucks
White-coming back from injury always been a bit of an underachiever

i'd be very interested in Deangelo Williams in FA if he came at a reasonable price, also still want another rookie.

Dedhed
01-25-2011, 09:38 AM
Is he in the mold of his brother, a blitzing-type playmaker in a 3-4, or could he play in a 4-3 in the NFL?

I didn't watch enough of Oregon to know what type of defense they played. In the NC it looked like they were in nickel and dime the whole game, so that's probably not a good judge of what Mathews would be in the NFL.

It doesn't look like its a great draft for MLB talent, anyway. Interesting...Greg Lloyd, Jr., from UConn...anyone know anything about him?

No. He's not at all a blitzing, speed OLB like his brother, but I do think he can be a very good MLB.

He'll be better than average in coverage and will be disciplined in filling his gaps. He would pretty much be the anti-DJ in the middle. Not an athletic freak, but a smart, instinctive, field general, who will get people lined up in the right place and be able to fill a gap.

I think he would be a good 3rd round target.

PRBronco
01-25-2011, 09:40 AM
I think we need to take a look at Greg Jones with one of our 2nd rounders.

This. Based on how much he improves in pre draft stuff, you maybe take him with our first 2nd rounder. Plug him in the middle, ?? ??, profit.

Baba Booey
01-25-2011, 09:43 AM
Agree with those who suggested Greg Jones. The guy is a stud.

Archer81
01-25-2011, 09:43 AM
No. He's not at all a blitzing, speed OLB like his brother, but I do think he can be a very good MLB.

He'll be better than average in coverage and will be disciplined in filling his gaps. He would pretty much be the anti-DJ in the middle. Not an athletic freak, but a smart, instinctive, field general, who will get people lined up in the right place and be able to fill a gap.
I think he would be a good 3rd round target.


That sounds like Al Wilson redeux. I'd be more than ok with that.


:Broncos:

Slade
01-25-2011, 09:46 AM
Here is a possible 3rd round target

Quan Sturdivant, ILB, North Carolina

Do-it-all linebacker Quan Sturdivant did not spend any time learning on the sidelines at North Carolina. As a true freshman he played in all 12 games and earned five starts, tallying 47 tackles, 1.5 tackles-for-loss, one sack, one interception and even blocked a punt. That set the stage for his breakout sophomore campaign. In 2008 Sturdivant started every game and led the team with an incredible 122 tackles, including an NCAA FBS high 87 unassisted tackles.

For the 2009 season Sturdivant moved to the middle of the linebacker corps and his leadership has led to a stifling Tar Heel defense. He was not asked to do as much as far as tackling is concerned from his new position thanks to an improving defense around him, but he still led the team with 75 tackles during the regular season and did a great job getting into the backfield, totaling 12.0 tackles-for-loss, one sack and six quarterback hurries. Sturdivant has turned into a leader during the 2010 campaign after many of the other stars on defense have been suspended. However, a hamstring injury has limited him to just three games so far this year.

What makes Sturdivant so valuable is his versatility. He can play any linebacker position, and once he is there he can do everything one would want a linebacker to do. He can obviously use his 6-2, 235 pound frame to fight his way into the backfield, but he is also more than capable of dropping back into coverage.
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2422

Slade
01-25-2011, 09:48 AM
Kelvin Sheppard -MLB-LSU
6-3 237lbs Senior

Stats:

2009- 103 tackles, 8.5 TFL, 1 Sack, 1 INT

Pros:

Kelvin Sheppard is a tackling machine. He wraps the ball carrier and drives his legs until he goes down or he gets help. Has fluid hips to make the drop into coverage. Does a good job of fighting off trash to get to the point of attack. Although he didn’t have many sacks, he is a good blitzer. He hit the QB many times last year and had quite a few tackles for loss. Emotional leader of one of the top defenses in the SEC. He plays with heart and gets his team ready to play.

Cons:

Depending on which team drafts him, whether a 3-4 or 4-3, determines if he needs to add more weight to his frame. He isn’t the most fleet of foot. He does occasionally get ushered completely out of the play. He has issues with over pursuing the play, especially when a reverse or bootleg is the play call. Might have too much swagger for some teams liking.

Thoughts:

Has great tools, but could use some great coaching to turn him into a star. I like him as a 4-3 MLB , that is his best position in my opinion.

Projected Round:

If Kelvin Sheppard duplicates his 2009, he could go as high as mid 2nd. I don’t see him falling past late 3rd regardless.

http://nflmocks.com/2010/09/14/2011-nfl-draft-scouting-report-kelvin-sheppard-lsu/

Slade
01-25-2011, 09:50 AM
Colin McCarthy, ILB, Miami
It did not take long for Colin McCarthy to go from a special teams superstar as a freshman to the starting strongside linebacker as a sophomore. During that sophomore campaign, McCarthy tallied 74 tackles, 12.0 tackles-for-loss, 2.0 sacks, one interception, one fumble recovery for a touchdown and five pass break-ups. That was just a glimpse of McCarthy's amazing versatility that was to come in the following years. However, his 2008 campaign was cut short after suffering a season ending shoulder injury after four games. McCarthy received a medical hardship and suited up again as a junior in 2009. There was a question at the time if McCarthy could get back to his old form, but he wasted little time proving any doubters wrong and ended the season by receiving All-ACC Second-Team accolades.

McCarthy has played just about everywhere in the linebacker corps and has finished his collegiate career in the middle. He is a good athlete, but not great. He makes up for any physical shortcomings with his incredible instincts.

Those instincts make McCarthy best suited to play in the middle, but he does have the versatility to play anywhere and that is never a bad thing. McCarthy should be one of the more experienced and safe middle linebackers heading into the draft this year, but his ceiling is probably in the third round.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2539

Slade
01-25-2011, 09:54 AM
Scott Lutrus, ILB, Connecticut
When Scott Lutrus has been healthy, he has been a dominant force for the Connecticut defense. Early in his collegiate career, the 6-3 linebacker stayed pretty healthy. As a redshirt freshman in 2007, he ranked third on the team with 107 tackles and started all 13 games at the strongside linebacker position. Lutrus also added 8.0 tackles-for-loss, one sack and intercepted four passes…two of which he returned for touchdowns. For his efforts, Lutrus was named a first-team Freshman All-American.

The good times kept rolling in 2008 as Lutrus was once again the starter at the strongside linebacker spot. He led the squad with 106 tackles and was named to the Second-Team All-Big East Conference squad. The expectations were high heading into 2009; and rightfully so. However, Lutrus was injured during the season opener and struggled for quite some time to overcome that injury. On the year he started just six games and tallied 69 tackles. When Lutrus was healthy and playing by the end of the year he was back to his old ways, but when he was again injured early in the 2010 campaign, his overall health became an issue. Yet again Lutrus has been relatively productive when he has been on the field during his senior campaign, but he missed three contests and NFL scouts are starting to wonder if he can stay healthy.

Lutrus' versatility should get him drafted in April. It may be in the late rounds, but somebody should be willing to take a chance on him. Lutrus is not just a linebacker who can come up and tackle people or occasionally blitz and cause some havoc in the backfield. This season Lutrus has stayed on the field when the Huskies would usually replace him and bring in a nickelback. Instead, they trust his pass coverage enough to allow him to stay in and pick up a wide receiver in coverage. At the least, Lutrus should be a versatile linebacker in the NFL who should not have much trouble picking up tight ends or running backs on passing downs.

12/20 Update: The Huskies got the job done by knocking off Cincinnati and South Florida in the final two weeks of the season. The result is a trip to the Fiesta Bowl and a date against perennial powerhouse Oklahoma. UConn are heavy underdogs in the New Year's Day contest, but even in a loss, Lutrus can gain some national exposure. Lutrus came up big in the two must win games for the Huskies to close the season. The Oklahoma offense will provide a much stiffer challenge, but if Connecticut can hang around and keep the game close, it will have to be because of the defense containing Oklahoma's explosive offense.
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2603

Slade
01-25-2011, 09:55 AM
SCOTT LUTRUS/ILB/UCONN/6’3/245

The only apparent hole in LUTRUS’ game has been a propensity to suffer nagging injuries that keep him off the field too often. He played the FIESTA BOWL with a cast on his right arm from hand to elbow. It’s hard to wrap up on tackles in that condition, but LUTRUS was all over the field making plays and slowing down the OKLAHOMA offense within 10-yards on either side of the line-of-scrimmage. He also showed well in shallow pass-drops. He’s been starting (when healthy) since his RS-Freshman year for the Huskies. He’s currently scheduled to play in the Shrine Game and I am hoping he is fully healthy so we can judge his talents adequately.
http://www.pigskinpaul.com/Pigskin_Pauls_Place/Home/Entries/2011/1/5_WHO_CAUGHT_MY_EYE_2010.html

PRBronco
01-25-2011, 09:58 AM
All I care about in the Mike scouting reports is if he can shed blocks tbqh. And if he actually knows where to be.

Paladin
01-25-2011, 10:14 AM
I believe that Fox said to the effect that the "starting" D lineup - 3-4 or 4-3 - is of less importance than people think because the issue is in posiitioning players in the D. A 3-4 could become a 4-3 simply by moving one guy up, maybe a SS or a lb or whatever. A 4-3 becomes a 3-4 when you drop a DE into coverage. I think the issue is in getting people and then design your D around the skill sets of the players. Of course, you are also looking for people with good skill sets, so the design/player paradigm evolves regularly. Also, the D can involve moving people in and out of the field of play in "personel groupings" for various situations and for different opponents. It is not a simple thing to say the Broncos will be a 3-4 or a 4-3 D. In fact, Fox intimated that philosophy in his introduction.

Actually, I am looking forward to what the team can/will do this offseason, but the CBA has to get done soon.....

vancejohnson82
01-25-2011, 10:15 AM
From Mile High Report:

**UPDATE--Reportsout of Mobile are saying the Broncos are talking to Oregon linebacker Casey Matthews. Read into it what you will, but we can add him to the "official" target list as of now**
**UPDATE II--Broncos are also sitting down with TCU QB Andy Dalton. Can never have too many good, inexpensive QB's, and Dalton fits our character mold**

Missouribronc
01-25-2011, 10:57 AM
From Mile High Report:

**UPDATE--Reportsout of Mobile are saying the Broncos are talking to Oregon linebacker Casey Matthews. Read into it what you will, but we can add him to the "official" target list as of now**
**UPDATE II--Broncos are also sitting down with TCU QB Andy Dalton. Can never have too many good, inexpensive QB's, and Dalton fits our character mold**

It'll be interesting to see how the new regime acts to interviews. Shanahan didn't draft a single kid he ever talked to. He used the senior bowl interviews as decoys. I think McDaniels did a little of that, but not like Shanahan.

Requiem
01-25-2011, 11:07 AM
Greg Jones. He came in at 5'11 7/8 which is really only one inch shorter than what he was listed at Michigan State, and he did weigh 240 pounds. He would be fine at any of our second round selections, IMHO. Quan Sturdivant is the other senior MIKE who could make sense for us. If it isn't them, junior Martez Wilson out of Illinois. Those are the only three guys I see right now being plug-in starters right away at MIKE.

Shoemaker
01-25-2011, 11:36 AM
From Mile High Report:

**UPDATE--Reportsout of Mobile are saying the Broncos are talking to Oregon linebacker Casey Matthews. Read into it what you will, but we can add him to the "official" target list as of now**
**UPDATE II--Broncos are also sitting down with TCU QB Andy Dalton. Can never have too many good, inexpensive QB's, and Dalton fits our character mold**

Interesting. I'm a big fan of Casey Matthews, and my roommate (who is a huge Ducks fan along with being a huge Broncos fan) thinks that Casey would be an excellent MLB at the pro-level. I'd definitely be a fan of giving him a look with our third round pick.

And this isn't really on the MIKE linebacker topic, but the fact that we're talking to Dalton intrigues me, because he could be a great project/backup in a system designed around Tebow. Do any of the draftniks around here know what round Dalton is projected to be taken in?

iforgotmypassword
01-25-2011, 12:06 PM
I thought there was someone pointing towards a DJ Williams trade (was this before or after the coach hire?)

I suggested a DJ trade if we were to remain in a 3-4. If there wasn't value keep him. Also a Doom trade if we switched to a 4-3, too much money for a pass rush specailist. Doom for Super Mario. I'd throw in a 3rd.

schaaf
01-25-2011, 12:07 PM
From Mile High Report:

**UPDATE--Reportsout of Mobile are saying the Broncos are talking to Oregon linebacker Casey Matthews. Read into it what you will, but we can add him to the "official" target list as of now**
**UPDATE II--Broncos are also sitting down with TCU QB Andy Dalton. Can never have too many good, inexpensive QB's, and Dalton fits our character mold**

I would think if they were thinking about going after Andy Dalton that would definitely mean that Orton won't be back next season.

Slade
01-25-2011, 12:14 PM
I suggested a DJ trade if we were to remain in a 3-4. If there wasn't value keep him. Also a Doom trade if we switched to a 4-3, too much money for a pass rush specailist. Doom for Super Mario. I'd throw in a 3rd.

While I tend to agree that Dumervil is too small for a 4-3 DE, I look at the Colts with Freeney and Mathis to tell me otherwise. Dwight Freeney is 268, while Robert Mathis is 245. At his current OLB weight of 248, Dumervil is no smaller than either of those guys, and they are studs. Its all about how he is used.

Hulamau
01-25-2011, 12:30 PM
Lol pipe dream. If they dont resing him they'll be stupid.
I'll give you my pipe dream wish. Denver signs Harris and Whitner and drafts Fairly. Then you put the rest of your draft picks on defense unless there is a offensive BPA.:)

Fox is gonna bring in another solid RB too to pair with Moreno ... either a FA like Deangelo or in the draft and he could go with a 2nd rounder if we get three with an Orton trade.

Missouribronc
01-25-2011, 12:33 PM
Fox is gonna bring in another solid RB too to pair with Moreno ... either a FA like Deangelo or in the draft and he could go with a 2nd rounder if we get three with an Orton trade.

That's a good point. I wouldn't be surprised if he brought in a FA and drafted a guy in later rounds. Maybe not as high as a second, though.

schaaf
01-25-2011, 01:25 PM
I'm thinking he will definitely bring in another back to go with Knowshon, I think Deangelo would be the safest bet, ESPECIALLY if Skipper joins the broncos.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2011, 01:48 PM
i would prefer a guy like David Harris or Barrett Ruud in FA.

ColoradoBuff
01-25-2011, 02:16 PM
the guy from michigan state is said to be dropping in draft status because of his height.

I like Greg Jones or Quan Sturdivant with our last 2nd round pick or in the 3rd round. Quan is playmaker...something we lack and need.

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 02:17 PM
If we wind up trading either down or back up into the first round, I'd love to have UCLA's Akeem Ayers but he's not an inside backer. At Mike I'd love to land Mark Herzlich from Boston College. He's probably there in the 2nd round if they want him.

http://nflmocks.com/2010/07/13/2011-nfl-draft-scouting-report-mark-herzlich-boston-college/

Broncos4Life
01-25-2011, 08:28 PM
MLB is absolutely critical in either 3-4 or 4-3. If you don't have a god backer in that slot nothing works. Speed, smarts, Agression. A couple of guys in the senior bowl this weekend Herzlich from B.C., and Moch from Nev, Miller from A&M, have impressed me.
Herzlich has been injured, Miller never played MLB, Moch don't no if he has the smarts, but physically they are all good, and they all show the attitude it takes to play the middle.
MIller is a first round pick anywhere from #8 to #15.
The other 2 are 3rd rounders.

Also the big safety from Neb. Hagg is playing he might be worth watching.

Thats really what we've been missing for years. A MLB with smarts and attitude and heart. Granted we all want an athletic guy out there, but if you show me a less athletic guy with above attributes, that is who I want leading my defense. In the mold of a Dawkins if you will.

That brings me to another dilemma. What do we do with Dawkins? Read some post that say that we might cut him. That he won't work in Fox scheme. Heck, what do we do with both safety spots? I'd say if we Don't resign Champ that we have a lot of ?????? on defense other than 3 or 4 spots.

Killericon
01-25-2011, 09:06 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0906/nfl.starting.middle.linebackers/images/paul-posluszny.jpg

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2011, 09:35 PM
Thats really what we've been missing for years. A MLB with smarts and attitude and heart. Granted we all want an athletic guy out there, but if you show me a less athletic guy with above attributes, that is who I want leading my defense. In the mold of a Dawkins if you will.

That brings me to another dilemma. What do we do with Dawkins? Read some post that say that we might cut him. That he won't work in Fox scheme. Heck, what do we do with both safety spots? I'd say if we Don't resign Champ that we have a lot of ?????? on defense other than 3 or 4 spots.

3 or 4 spots?

outside of Doom at DE or OLB depending on the 4-3 or 3-4 allignment, where is this defense truly set?

DT needs to be addressed, DE also, maybe Ayers fulfills his potential with a move back to the line in a 4-3.

LB is nothing special. the best pure LB on the team has been playing FB for the last 2 years. Woodyard is a great ST guy, i honestly would love to get out from DJ's huge and not truly worthwhile contract. Haggan is a good ST guy and a good contributor on defense, but really shouldn't be counted as an every down LB, same with Mays. all 3 LB spots need to be upgraded if we go 4-3 and both ILB and the SAM need to be upgraded if we stay 3-4.

Regardless of Dawkins staying or going the position needs to be upgraded and injected with some youth as does the CB position

honestly i look at this defense, and see that all but 2 spots should be upgraded(if Champ is retained, if not 10 spots would need to be addressed.)

only position that i feel is set is wherever Doom is lined up and Corner where Champ is lined up if he is still in Denver, everything else can be upgraded.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2011, 09:36 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0906/nfl.starting.middle.linebackers/images/paul-posluszny.jpg

send them Orton and a late round pick and bring him in.

OrangeSe7en
01-25-2011, 09:42 PM
I like Greg Jones or Quan Sturdivant with our last 2nd round pick or in the 3rd round. Quan is playmaker...something we lack and need.

I don't like Sturdivant.

OrangeSe7en
01-25-2011, 09:43 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0906/nfl.starting.middle.linebackers/images/paul-posluszny.jpg

I think I read that he wants to re-sign with Buffalo.

broncocalijohn
01-25-2011, 10:05 PM
Why is it a foregone conclusion? Allen also worked under Wade Phillips. I don't think anything is set in stone.

If trading or putting question marks on Elvis, Mays and DJ if we switch to a 4-3 D doesnt look great for next year unless we can get FA that can do the job and rookies that would need to perform in 2011 (if a season happens to be).

primetime714
01-26-2011, 05:48 AM
If trading or putting question marks on Elvis, Mays and DJ if we switch to a 4-3 D doesnt look great for next year unless we can get FA that can do the job and rookies that would need to perform in 2011 (if a season happens to be).

The only question mark on Elvis for me is the injury which is a question mark regardless of scheme. Elvis has had success in a 4-3 and even in 2009 most of his sacks came as a lineman.

DJ again is not a question mark in the 4-3 his best season was as a 4-3 WLB. Its his natural position. If he is traded or let go I think we likely sign someone to replace him. Perhaps Thomas Davis from Carolina. Or if we spend big Chad Greenway. Otherwise he's the starting WLB for us next year.

Mays is a question mark in the 4-3 as he is certainly better suited as a 2 down ILB in a 3-4.

If we moved to a 4-3 today MLB is probably the biggest question mark. DT would be weak, but we could always plug in two of the big guys (Bannan and Williams) in an attempt to stop the run with Doom and Ayers on the outside. Lots of position to upgrade on the defense, but that's the case regardless of scheme.

BroncoMan4ever
01-26-2011, 08:50 AM
The only question mark on Elvis for me is the injury which is a question mark regardless of scheme. Elvis has had success in a 4-3 and even in 2009 most of his sacks came as a lineman.

DJ again is not a question mark in the 4-3 his best season was as a 4-3 WLB. Its his natural position. If he is traded or let go I think we likely sign someone to replace him. Perhaps Thomas Davis from Carolina. Or if we spend big Chad Greenway. Otherwise he's the starting WLB for us next year.

Mays is a question mark in the 4-3 as he is certainly better suited as a 2 down ILB in a 3-4.

If we moved to a 4-3 today MLB is probably the biggest question mark. DT would be weak, but we could always plug in two of the big guys (Bannan and Williams) in an attempt to stop the run with Doom and Ayers on the outside. Lots of position to upgrade on the defense, but that's the case regardless of scheme.

Well it can be assumed Bannan is starting at DT and that is fine by me, he played well and was basically the lone bright spot on the DL this past season.

Ayers is intriguing because i truly believe he could be in for a career resurgance moving back to his natural DE spot.

Doom is going to be Doom, and if we can get decent pressure up the middle and if Ayers can do anything, he will be fine lining up at end again. Also most of his sacks came with him lined up on the line in 2009 didn't they.

Play2win
01-26-2011, 09:08 AM
Well it can be assumed Bannan is starting at DT and that is fine by me, he played well and was basically the lone bright spot on the DL this past season.

Ayers is intriguing because i truly believe he could be in for a career resurgance moving back to his natural DE spot.

Doom is going to be Doom, and if we can get decent pressure up the middle and if Ayers can do anything, he will be fine lining up at end again. Also most of his sacks came with him lined up on the line in 2009 didn't they.

Another thing about Doom, is that he has had his Michael Jordan moment. He led the league in sacks. So, He WILL get the holding calls-- as opposed to the last time he played end.

Remember all those blatant holds that were never called? Well, they should get called this go around (if we go 4-3). But who knows, this still is the NFL... Meet the new boss/Same as the old boss...

BroncoMan4ever
01-26-2011, 09:40 AM
Another thing about Doom, is that he has had his Michael Jordan moment. He led the league in sacks. So, He WILL get the holding calls-- as opposed to the last time he played end.

Remember all those blatant holds that were never called? Well, they should get called this go around (if we go 4-3). But who knows, this still is the NFL... Meet the new boss/Same as the old boss...

good point. dude was always getting that arm around the neck and never getting the calls for it


another thought i was thinking today for the LB spots. AJ Hawk and Nick Barnett

Hawk is owed something like 10 million guaranteed next season, and it is possible that Green Bay will let him go if he won't restructure his deal.

Nick Barnett is expendable now that his backup had a breakout year and got a new contract.

I know they both play ILB but i think 1 of them is capable of playing the SAM