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footstepsfrom#27
01-24-2011, 09:30 PM
The official physicians report lists Cutler's injury as a grade 2 sprain, which means contrary to perception, it IS a tear, it's a significant injury, and according to these two prominent orthopedic surgeons Cutler and the Bears did the right thing in sitting him down.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2011/01/two_physicians_say_jay_cutler.html

Two physicians say Jay Cutler "lucky" to only tear his MCL

By Sean Jensen on January 24, 2011 5:26 PM

The head physician for the Los Angeles Dodgers said quarterback Jay Cutler should not have finished the game and insisted he was fortunate that he didn't endure a more serious knee injury.

"With a little bit more force, the next thing to go, in that situation, is the ACL," said Dr. Neal ElAttrache, the orthopedic surgeon at Kerlan-Jobe Orthopaedic Clinic in Los Angeles and team doctor for Dodgers. "So anybody who has a Grade II or Grade III that doesn't have an ACL injury is lucky."

As first reported by the Chicago Sun-Times, Cutler's MRI Monday morning revealed that Cutler suffered a Grade II MCL tear in the second quarter of Sunday's NFC title game against the Green Bay Packers.

ElAttrache, who performed knee surgery on New England's Tom Brady in October 2008, also said that how Cutler and the Bears' medical team staff handled the situation is consistent with standard protocol."Initially, as soon as it happens, [the patient] may say, 'That feels unusual. Then keep playing,' " ElAttrache said. "But as the knee bleeds, it becomes more stiff and uncomfortable. So initially, you might find a guy who can play a couple of series. But then when he doesn't move around, his knee will stiffen up.

"Looking at it, as time went on, he became less mobile and more uncomfortable. If you feel you're not too mobile, you're not only putting yourself but your team at risk."

Dr. David Thorson, who works with the U.S. Ski team, added that trying to continue to play would have increased the chances of Cutler tearing his ACL, a knee ligament that requires upwards of six months of rehabilitation.

With the Grade II MCL tear, the usual healing time, which doesn't require surgery, is three to six weeks. Thorson added that Grade II MCL tears are the trickiest to diagnose. A Grade III is a complete tear, and a Grade I, he said, is just stretching, with a couple of fibers potentially tearing.
Grade II MCL tears are somewhere in the middle.

"The reality is, it's not black and white," he said. "How do you know if Grade I doesn't have a few fibers torn? You can't tell it, until you do an imaging study.
"There's a broad range in there."
Tags:Chicago Bears,David Thorson,Jay Cutler,Neal ElAttrache
__________________________________________

I thought it was worth noting that last year Troy Polamula missed the entire season when he suffered the same injury and he tried to come back a couple games later, to early as it turns out, reagravated it and missed the season. Among the others who have missed major time, Steelers QB David Gerrard had a Grade 2 MCL sprain (tear) and missed several weeks, and was cut by the Steelers when he was unable to come back. LaDanian Tomlilnson missed playoff games a couple seasons ago with this injury.

Carry on...the Cutler talk is so fascinating I can't tear myself away. Who gives a **** about the draft now that we have more Cutler fodder eh?

DivineBronco
01-24-2011, 09:33 PM
if you honestly think the issue is actually about the injury you are kidding yourself

2KBack
01-24-2011, 09:36 PM
I don't like cutler, I like rooting against him. I didn't want to see him injured though, and don't call him a pussy for having an injury.

That said, it also ruined me getting to see him play the entire game as terribly as he had up till the injury.

footstepsfrom#27
01-24-2011, 09:36 PM
if you honestly think the issue is actually about the injury you are kidding yourself
Of couse it is. The entire basis of the argument that he should have stayed in the game is based on the idea he wasn't that hurt. The fact is, orthopedic doctors who know more than we do say the decison was correct.

Now if you want to talk about his affect, that's another question, but let's not get stupid in here now and pretend the injury issue is irrelevant. Obviously it's not, it's the primary issue.

SoCalBronco
01-24-2011, 09:37 PM
Medical evidence? Pfft. What use is that? This is a message board, son. Medical evidence is for losers or Chiefs fans, or both.

I also don't see how an injury that would prevent him from playing for 3 to 6 weeks means he couldnt come back in...in about 5 minutes? Explain your reasoning.

And don't say the Cutler talk is so fascinating that you can't tear yourself away.....its you can't sprain yourself away. Don't overstate it.


:)

SoCalBronco
01-24-2011, 09:40 PM
if you honestly think the issue is actually about the injury you are kidding yourself

Why would it not be about the injury?

First, it was alleged that there was no actual injury and that it was COMPLETELY contrived. Then you guys said its "not a big deal". Then you guys failed to comprehend that if a specific injury causes damage to the extent that he CAN'T PLAY FOR 3-6 WEEKS, THEN IT NECESSARILY FOLLOWS THAT HE CAN'T PLAY IN 5 MINUTES. Then it was "its just an MCL issue" until it was pointed out that Sharpe left SB33 with an MCL tear as well and we couldn't have that so then finally it became, who cares, Tebow played with broken legs, so since one person pulled off a herculean task of unbelievable proportions, its surely reasonable for every other athlete (read every other athlete we despise) to be held to the same level of expectation.

TD30
01-24-2011, 09:40 PM
We know cutler is a horrible human being because we don't like his body language. This is hilarious this is one scorned bronco nation I for one didnt want him to win but holy crap the guy had a torn mcl. Other than that nothings changed.

footstepsfrom#27
01-24-2011, 09:42 PM
I don't give a **** about Cutler. We have Tebow and I'm happy with that. But facts are taking a beating in here...let's deal with facts not what someone on twitter says.

SoCalBronco
01-24-2011, 09:43 PM
. But facts are taking a beating in here.

You're surprised by this? :)

footstepsfrom#27
01-24-2011, 09:47 PM
You're surprised by this? :)
No of course not, it's the OM way. ;D

Dedhed
01-24-2011, 09:59 PM
I get the feeling I'm watching someone trying to put out a forest fire with a squirt gun. Anyone else?

footstepsfrom#27
01-24-2011, 10:03 PM
I get the feeling I'm watching someone trying to put out a forest fire with a squirt gun. Anyone else?
So is your argument with me or the two orthopedic surgeons quoted who say he did the right thing?

Dedhed
01-24-2011, 10:14 PM
So is your argument with me or the two orthopedic surgeons quoted who say he did the right thing?

I don't think I need to argue with anyone. His team mates and contemporaries will handle the judgement.

For the record, I don't think it will end well for Cutler.

PS-I bet there were a number of surgeons who told stink to retire after the 10th or 12th knee surgery and before he ever won a Super Bowl.

footstepsfrom#27
01-24-2011, 10:20 PM
I don't think I need to argue with anyone. His team mates and contemporaries will handle the judgement.

For the record, I don't think it will end well for Cutler.

PS-I bet there were a number of surgeons who told stink to retire after the 10th or 12th knee surgery and before he ever won a Super Bowl.
I see. So you are arguing with Brady's orthopedic surgeon. Thanks for clarifying that.

Dedhed
01-24-2011, 10:22 PM
I see. So you are arguing with Brady's orthopedic surgeon. Thanks for clarifying that.

No, I'm saying that any doctor would say what they said, and that any real football player, like Stink, would say "thanks, where's the tape, I gotta get back on the field and help my teammates".

footstepsfrom#27
01-24-2011, 10:27 PM
No, I'm saying that any doctor would say what they said, and that any real football player, like Stink, would say "thanks, where's the tape, I gotta get back on the field and help my teammates".
Shannon Sharpe isn't a real football player? LaDanian Tomlilnson either? Troy Palamalu missed the entire year taking your advice btw...has it occured to you the Bears would like to keep their QB's future intact vs. putting him back into a game he was inneffective in anyway?

Dedhed
01-24-2011, 10:30 PM
Shannon Sharpe isn't a real football player? LaDanian Tomlilnson either? Troy Palamalu missed the entire year taking your advice btw...has it occured to you the Bears would like to keep their QB's future intact vs. putting him back into a game he was inneffective in anyway?

Like I said. I don't feel like I need to argue this with anyone. Cutler has already lost in the court of peer opinion.

Two orthopedists who never examined him said football is dangerous. Yay.

footstepsfrom#27
01-24-2011, 10:47 PM
Like I said. I don't feel like I need to argue this with anyone. Cutler has already lost in the court of peer opinion.

Two orthopedists who never examined him said football is dangerous. Yay.
Two orthodedists who know more than you do.

This thread is about the medical basis for the decision to sit Cutler, as opposed to the twitter informed, "court of public opinion" you subscribe to. You're right...don't argue this.

SoCalBronco
01-24-2011, 10:55 PM
No, I'm saying that any doctor would say what they said, and that any real football player, like Stink, would say "thanks, where's the tape, I gotta get back on the field and help my teammates".

This is a football game with real life medical diagnoses and the possibility of major long term risks......not Street Fighter II.

But here's Guile's theme because it fits in well with anything (including totally unrelated football threads):

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jLJLyneZGKc" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

Kaylore
01-24-2011, 10:58 PM
I say again: Even without the knee injury, Cutler played like complete ass in the biggest game of his life.

bronco0608
01-24-2011, 11:00 PM
Penguins Gonchan played in the Playoffs with a torn mcl if I'm correct. Cutler couldn't do it for 12 on field minutes of football.

Come on...

Now remember this too: AFTER his injury, he came back on the field. Remember, he was INJURED. From what you can see, the injury wasn't as castrophic as the Cutler Fanboys want you to believe. If it was so bad, he would have been ruled out at halftime.

But they still forced him to come back on to the football field, and he bitched off.

ant1999e
01-24-2011, 11:00 PM
I don't give a **** about Cutler. We have Tebow and I'm happy with that. But facts are taking a beating in here...let's deal with facts not what someone on twitter says.

Yeah right.Hilarious!

footstepsfrom#27
01-24-2011, 11:02 PM
When I was in HS I played football with a kid who started his entire senior season at MLB with torn knee ligaments. Ten years later, I ran into him one day in a church service I was invited to. He was walkling with a cane. The decisions fans glibly feel entitled to make for others have consequences that extend decades into the future. A lot of these NFL guys can barely walk by the time they're fifty.

footstepsfrom#27
01-24-2011, 11:03 PM
Penguins Gonchan played in the Playoffs with a torn mcl if I'm correct. Cutler couldn't do it for 12 on field minutes of football.

Come on...

Now remember this too: AFTER his injury, he came back on the field. Remember, he was INJURED. From what you can see, the injury wasn't as castrophic as the Cutler Fanboys want you to believe. If it was so bad, he would have been ruled out at halftime.

But they still forced him to come back on to the football field, and he b****ed off.
Wrong. Read the doctor's opinion on why he was able to come back for a while. He probably knows more than you do don't you think?

vancejohnson82
01-24-2011, 11:04 PM
Why would it not be about the injury?

First, it was alleged that there was no actual injury and that it was COMPLETELY contrived. Then you guys said its "not a big deal". Then you guys failed to comprehend that if a specific injury causes damage to the extent that he CAN'T PLAY FOR 3-6 WEEKS, THEN IT NECESSARILY FOLLOWS THAT HE CAN'T PLAY IN 5 MINUTES. Then it was "its just an MCL issue" until it was pointed out that Sharpe left SB33 with an MCL tear as well and we couldn't have that so then finally it became, who cares, Tebow played with broken legs, so since one person pulled off a herculean task of unbelievable proportions, its surely reasonable for every other athlete (read every other athlete we despise) to be held to the same level of expectation.

its not about the injury....he sucked before the injury and put his team in a 14 point hole...then he looked like someone just told him his dog died the whole second half....he couldnt look like less of a teammate on a team that was a game away from the Super Bowl

who cares though? he's not on our team

SoCalBronco
01-24-2011, 11:04 PM
Penguins Gonchan played in the Playoffs with a torn mcl if I'm correct. Cutler couldn't do it for 12 on field minutes of football.

Come on.

That's not quite totally accurate. First of all, Sarge did not return immediately after absorbing the cheap shot from Ovechkin, he actually missed a couple games...I also dont think the degree of severity in his tear was as much as Jay's, but in any case, he didn't continue in the same game, or even the game after that..or the game after that.

Vegas_Bronco
01-24-2011, 11:05 PM
Roger Goodell is going to fine every American who bashes Jay Cubed...he is watching closely and taking names.

strafen
01-24-2011, 11:16 PM
if you honestly think the issue is actually about the injury you are kidding yourselfAre you a doctor?

_Oro_
01-24-2011, 11:23 PM
Socal, everyone knows your a Jay Cutler fan, and that's fine but what do you think of him as a football player? After watching Jay's performance before the injury, did your opinion of Jay as a QB change at all?

broncocalijohn
01-24-2011, 11:24 PM
So is your argument with me or the two orthopedic surgeons quoted who say he did the right thing?

I think the argument might be did Cutler know that if he goes back out there, he can make it worse or did he not go back out there because things werent looking good for him. Let us face it that your body has adreneline and you might not be aware of how serious an injury is at that current state. Jack Youngblood played with a broken leg for the Rams. Now, 2 hours later, he might have felt the pain. I have not said anything for one side of the argument or the other but I am sure this is what people have questioned him on. Sure he was hurt but was he hurt enough at that moment to not tell his coach I want back in? During the game, I saw a ****ty QB performance and a bad teammate when he mopped on the sideline. Great picture of Hanie looking over the playbook/pictures of the formations and Cutler feet away from him not even helping the guy out. That is what would bother me. It was like watching LT reincarnated.

SoCalBronco
01-24-2011, 11:29 PM
Socal, everyone knows your a Jay Cutler fan, and that's fine but what do you think of him as a football player? After watching Jay's performance before the injury, did your opinion of Jay as a QB change at all?

It's clear he had a mediocre/below average game (there are those here that enjoy engaging in histrionics when it comes to Jay, i.e. "it was absolutely and completely awful in every possible way"....I dont think it was quite that bad, he had a couple overthrows and a pick, but IMO, it wasnt horribly and utterly bad, it was certainly below average, however), but I'm not sure how one would think that a QB having a less than average game against a great opponent after having an excellent game and an all-around good season would reasonably cause me to change my opinion. Jay Cutler had a fine season for the Bears, he cut down significantly on his interceptions, still made a ton of big plays, threw for over 20 TD passes yet again and played an important role in his team's successful campaign to the NFC Title Game. His pre-injury play in this single contest didnt change my opinion for the same reason that I dont think someone would say Aaron Rodgers is no longer having a great 2010 postseason simply because he had a rather ordinary effort in this game, esp the second half...its just one game, as with anyone.

Vegas_Bronco
01-24-2011, 11:31 PM
I think the argument might be did Cutler know that if he goes back out there, he can make it worse or did he not go back out there because things werent looking good for him. Let us face it that your body has adreneline and you might not be aware of how serious an injury is at that current state. Jack Youngblood played with a broken leg for the Rams. Now, 2 hours later, he might have felt the pain. I have not said anything for one side of the argument or the other but I am sure this is what people have questioned him on. Sure he was hurt but was he hurt enough at that moment to not tell his coach I want back in? During the game, I saw a ****ty QB performance and a bad teammate when he mopped on the sideline. Great picture of Hanie looking over the playbook/pictures of the formations and Cutler feet away from him not even helping the guy out. That is what would bother me. It was like watching LT reincarnated.

Jays never been a leader and never will be when he's down. He will play but doesn't like to compete and certainly doesn't lead a team to water. He really does have Elway arm with Marinos mentality.

baja
01-24-2011, 11:31 PM
Medical evidence? Pfft. What use is that? This is a message board, son. Medical evidence is for losers or Chiefs fans, or both.

I also don't see how an injury that would prevent him from playing for 3 to 6 weeks means he couldnt come back in...in about 5 minutes? Explain your reasoning.

And don't say the Cutler talk is so fascinating that you can't tear yourself away.....its you can't sprain yourself away. Don't overstate it.


:)




Isn't it fortunate you have this medical opinion to deflect from the fact Cutler shiit the bed in the biggest game of his life. His injury saved him from further embarrassment and his expressive face showed he knew that and was grateful he had an excuse to not be further tested because he knew he was not up to the task. He was relieved to be on the bench.

strafen
01-24-2011, 11:34 PM
Socal, everyone knows your a Jay Cutler fan, and that's fine but what do you think of him as a football player? After watching Jay's performance before the injury, did your opinion of Jay as a QB change at all?

Cutler has no weapons on the offense.
They're lacking a big running back and reliable receivers. His OL is in shambles.
He's got sacked 52 times or so this season.

Did he look fluid on the NFCCG?
No, he didn't. He looked to be uptight.
I was disappointed about his performance, but when you don't have a complete team around you it will catch up to you eventually....
He was visibly frustrated.

SoCalBronco
01-24-2011, 11:38 PM
Isn't it fortunate you have this medical opinion to deflect from the fact Cutler shiit the bed in the biggest game of his life. His injury saved him from further embarrassment and his expressive face showed he knew that and was grateful he had an excuse to not be further tested because he knew he was not up to the task. He was relieved to be on the bench.

i am glad to see you are supplementing the orthopedic medical evidence with psychological expert evidence derived from.............? Jay Cutler did not have a good football game prior to his injury (which BTW yesterday you folks were claiming was a complete fabrication). I find it rather odd that we are saying that "in the biggest game of his life, he sucked", when this would have been the exact comment had he sucked against Seattle, or had he played well and not gotten injured and also prevailed agianst GB but played less than well on the SB stage. Does it strike you as bitter or ironic or moronic that people are sitting on the bottom of the totem pole at 4-12 constantly setting the goalposts back further and further so that every hurdle he crosses simply means that if he fails at the next event its a failure "in the biggest game of his life"? What you guys have cleverly put together is a scenario whereby if Cutler did not WIN THE SUPERBOWL AND DOMINATE in the SUPER BOWL, the narrative would be "he ****ed up in the biggest game of his life".

That is absolutely brilliant and as much as I hate that you guys put this together totally in bad faith and totally out of spite and hatred, it required major talent and props are due for the way you guys had everything played up no matter what result occurred just so long as he didnt win the SB and dominate in the SB, individually.

So that we are on the same page here.....its all fine and good that we're 4-12, but anything below winning the SB and dominating in it, "Cutler failed in the biggest game", right? I'll give you a hint who the failure really was....its not him.

Popps
01-24-2011, 11:38 PM
Did the doctor have an explanation for the first half?

Que
01-24-2011, 11:40 PM
Dude is a pussy and a douche. Has fits of brilliance on field though. Too bad they're offset by decent amounts of suck. A good team football guy gets the benefit of the doubt. C*ntasaurus like Cutler, he cant get a break from anyone. Hopefully he gets an O line next year. You can say all you want about what the Drs recommend but one thing is for certain, Cutler isn't made of the stuff of legend.

Ugly Duck
01-24-2011, 11:43 PM
http://www.galttech.com/research/graphics5/kb1.jpg

Put on a knee brace so nothing else can tear & operate from the shotgun. The Bears use the shotgun.

baja
01-24-2011, 11:44 PM
i am glad to see you are supplementing the orthopedic medical evidence with psychological expert evidence derived from.............? Jay Cutler did not have a good football game prior to his injury (which BTW yesterday you folks were claiming was a complete fabrication). I find it rather odd that we are saying that "in the biggest game of his life, he sucked", when this would have been the exact comment had he sucked against Seattle, or had he played well and not gotten injured and also prevailed agianst GB but played less than well on the SB stage. Does it strike you as bitter or ironic or moronic that people are sitting on the bottom of the totem pole at 4-12 constantly setting the goalposts back further and further so that every hurdle he crosses simply means that if he fails at the next event its a failure "in the biggest game of his life"? What you guys have cleverly put together is a scenario whereby if Cutler did not WIN THE SUPERBOWL AND DOMINATE in the SUPER BOWL, the narrative would be "he ****ed up in the biggest game of his life".

That is absolutely brilliant and as much as I hate that you guys put this together totally in bad faith and totally out of spite and hatred, it required major talent and props are due for the way you guys had everything played up no matter what result occurred just so long as he didnt win the SB and dominate in the SB, individually.

So that we are on the same page here.....its all fine and good that we're 4-12, but anything below winning the SB and dominating in it, "Cutler failed in the biggest game", right? I'll give you a hint who the failure really was....its not him.

The Broncos are 4 and 12 = Oranges

Jay Cutler is a fraud of a quarterback = apples

SoCalBronco
01-24-2011, 11:49 PM
The Broncos are 4 and 12 = Oranges

Jay Cutler is a fraud of a quarterback = apples

Really? You dont see the connection? I KNOW you are a smart person. This was the narrative REGARDLESS....hell if he even won the SB and played great, it would be "the D carried him the whole season, its about time he did something halfway decent to contribute his share...Trent Dilfer". There was no way he was going to win on this forum, no matter if he had moderate achievements, great achievements or the ultimate achievement. People totally ignored the fact that whatever was the last step for him, it was like 15 steps more than us. This is like the kid working in the mail room who barely graduated the HS econ class criticizing his firm's growth strategy.

wandlc
01-24-2011, 11:54 PM
No, but you might want to ask Hester why he quit running on his route on the first drive only to go back to full speed when he realized the ball was thrown to him. Or why Knox can only track a ball that is thrown past him (he did this to both Cutler and Hanie)? I like the one about how he put his team in a 14 point hole by not playing defense. The defense didn't start playing well until just past midway in the 2nd quarter. Nobody knows how Cutler would have played the 2nd half if he was not injured. There have been many games where he looked bad early and played much better in the 2nd half this year. Yeah he played badly before he got injured that we know, the rest is just pure speculation.

Jason in LA
01-25-2011, 12:07 AM
PS-I bet there were a number of surgeons who told stink to retire after the 10th or 12th knee surgery and before he ever won a Super Bowl.

I'd say that the situation you came up with is a little different from being on the field during the game and making a decision. Cutler didn't have time to rehad it and get back out there.

DivineBronco
01-25-2011, 12:12 AM
I am sorry I wasn't clear
people are not bashing cutler truly based on the severity of his injury they are bashing him based on years of attitude and jackassery the situation is just an excuse

OABB
01-25-2011, 12:30 AM
Cuter sucks. Let's move on. If people want to support Jeff George jr let them. It's tebow time in Denver. Let's all be happy we have a qb that is likeable, humble, hard working and not a pussy.

Go broncos.

Mr Chatterboodamn
01-25-2011, 12:44 AM
cutler, by making it to the conference championship, obviously got some people's goats! this is just sour grapes, fueled by lingering ego-attachment by some to preternatural love for mcdaniels. who are the real widows? let it go! new era!

most importantly, I think john fox is dope and tebow has a lot of potential. tebow is certainly a more refined and positive media presence, so that should make everyone happy. i played golf with some guys from north carolina and they said they had a lot of respect and admiration for the guy and felt last season was due to ownership problems. i also love that elway is back in the fold.

go broncos!

OABB
01-25-2011, 12:45 AM
cutler, by making it to the conference championship, obviously got some people's goats! this is just sour grapes, fueled by lingering ego-attachment by some to preternatural love for mcdaniels. who are the real widows? let it go! new era!

most importantly, I think john fox is dope and tebow has a lot of potential. tebow is certainly a more refined and positive media presence, so that should make everyone happy. i played golf with some guys from north carolina and they said they had a lot of respect and admiration for the guy and felt last season was due to ownership problems. i also love that elway is back in the fold.

go broncos!

where is that avatar from? It's ****ing faptastic.

Mr Chatterboodamn
01-25-2011, 01:08 AM
where is that avatar from? It's ****ing faptastic.

I came across the image randomly on some hipster tumblr and i was like OMG!! I couldn't find any direct source, but I did some sleuthing and I have a good guess what it is. It says "The Last Match" in english, and this is probably the cover art for the asian laser disc for this 1990 Italian movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099984/

Plot: "Somewhere on an island in the Caribean a girl is imprisoned for owning drugs. As she is the daughter of a football team coach help is soon on the way: the entire team mounts an expedition to set her free"

The one user review on there is hilarious:

"The first half is rather dull with Tobias searching for his daughter and finding her in an awful Dominican jail. The second half involving the football team raiding the prison while wearing their uniforms must be seen to be believed. Particularly hilarious is the scene later on where the football team wipes out the entire Dominican army at an airport and don't even lose a single guy (even though they are wearing cumbersome bright yellow uniforms). Then a guy sticks a grenade inside a football and drop-kicks it into an enemy helicopter, blowing it out of the sky! I honestly could never have dreamt up something any more ludicrous, and this movie is worth the watch for that alone."

So I guess whoever designed the box art was foreign and chose the broncos arbitrarily. And that is the convoluted story why we get to see steve sewell and elway is holding M-16s and alton montgomery firing a bazooka! Amazing.

OABB
01-25-2011, 01:13 AM
I came across the image randomly on some hipster tumblr and i was like OMG!! I couldn't find any direct source, but I did some sleuthing and I have a good guess what it is. It says "The Last Match" in english, and this is probably the cover art for the asian laser disc for this 1990 Italian movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099984/

Plot: "Somewhere on an island in the Caribean a girl is imprisoned for owning drugs. As she is the daughter of a football team coach help is soon on the way: the entire team mounts an expedition to set her free"

The one user review on there is hilarious:

"The first half is rather dull with Tobias searching for his daughter and finding her in an awful Dominican jail. The second half involving the football team raiding the prison while wearing their uniforms must be seen to be believed. Particularly hilarious is the scene later on where the football team wipes out the entire Dominican army at an airport and don't even lose a single guy (even though they are wearing cumbersome bright yellow uniforms). Then a guy sticks a grenade inside a football and drop-kicks it into an enemy helicopter, blowing it out of the sky! I honestly could never have dreamt up something any more ludicrous, and this movie is worth the watch for that alone."

So I guess whoever designed the box art was foreign and chose the broncos arbitrarily. And that is the convoluted story why we get to see steve sewell and elway is holding M-16s and alton montgomery firing a bazooka! Amazing.

I must find that movie. A grenade stuffed into a football and kicked into a helicopter? Is there anything more awesome?

I think not.

The MVPlaya
01-25-2011, 01:19 AM
These physicians are laughing their way to the bank for the bull**** PR they put out...

Let's be serious here, what would YOU do to cover up Cutler's reputation?

Probably exactly what you're reading...

He was standing up, sitting down, standing up, walking around, riding a bike...

lol if Brady or Manning or Rivers did the same, you stupid ****s would be saying the same things people are saying about Cutler now...

epicSocialism4tw
01-25-2011, 02:29 AM
The official physicians report lists Cutler's injury as a grade 2 sprain, which means contrary to perception, it IS a tear, it's a significant injury, and according to these two prominent orthopedic surgeons Cutler and the Bears did the right thing in sitting him down.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2011/01/two_physicians_say_jay_cutler.html

Two physicians say Jay Cutler "lucky" to only tear his MCL

By Sean Jensen on January 24, 2011 5:26 PM

The head physician for the Los Angeles Dodgers said quarterback Jay Cutler should not have finished the game and insisted he was fortunate that he didn't endure a more serious knee injury.

"With a little bit more force, the next thing to go, in that situation, is the ACL," said Dr. Neal ElAttrache, the orthopedic surgeon at Kerlan-Jobe Orthopaedic Clinic in Los Angeles and team doctor for Dodgers. "So anybody who has a Grade II or Grade III that doesn't have an ACL injury is lucky."

As first reported by the Chicago Sun-Times, Cutler's MRI Monday morning revealed that Cutler suffered a Grade II MCL tear in the second quarter of Sunday's NFC title game against the Green Bay Packers.

ElAttrache, who performed knee surgery on New England's Tom Brady in October 2008, also said that how Cutler and the Bears' medical team staff handled the situation is consistent with standard protocol."Initially, as soon as it happens, [the patient] may say, 'That feels unusual. Then keep playing,' " ElAttrache said. "But as the knee bleeds, it becomes more stiff and uncomfortable. So initially, you might find a guy who can play a couple of series. But then when he doesn't move around, his knee will stiffen up.

"Looking at it, as time went on, he became less mobile and more uncomfortable. If you feel you're not too mobile, you're not only putting yourself but your team at risk."

Dr. David Thorson, who works with the U.S. Ski team, added that trying to continue to play would have increased the chances of Cutler tearing his ACL, a knee ligament that requires upwards of six months of rehabilitation.

With the Grade II MCL tear, the usual healing time, which doesn't require surgery, is three to six weeks. Thorson added that Grade II MCL tears are the trickiest to diagnose. A Grade III is a complete tear, and a Grade I, he said, is just stretching, with a couple of fibers potentially tearing.
Grade II MCL tears are somewhere in the middle.

"The reality is, it's not black and white," he said. "How do you know if Grade I doesn't have a few fibers torn? You can't tell it, until you do an imaging study.
"There's a broad range in there."
Tags:Chicago Bears,David Thorson,Jay Cutler,Neal ElAttrache
__________________________________________

I thought it was worth noting that last year Troy Polamula missed the entire season when he suffered the same injury and he tried to come back a couple games later, to early as it turns out, reagravated it and missed the season. Among the others who have missed major time, Steelers QB David Gerrard had a Grade 2 MCL sprain (tear) and missed several weeks, and was cut by the Steelers when he was unable to come back. LaDanian Tomlilnson missed playoff games a couple seasons ago with this injury.

Carry on...the Cutler talk is so fascinating I can't tear myself away. Who gives a **** about the draft now that we have more Cutler fodder eh?

It doesnt matter.

The pundits have already pounced on Cutler. The Chicago goob Wilbon tore him to shreds yesterday.

epicSocialism4tw
01-25-2011, 02:31 AM
I came across the image randomly on some hipster tumblr and i was like OMG!! I couldn't find any direct source, but I did some sleuthing and I have a good guess what it is. It says "The Last Match" in english, and this is probably the cover art for the asian laser disc for this 1990 Italian movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099984/

Plot: "Somewhere on an island in the Caribean a girl is imprisoned for owning drugs. As she is the daughter of a football team coach help is soon on the way: the entire team mounts an expedition to set her free"

The one user review on there is hilarious:

"The first half is rather dull with Tobias searching for his daughter and finding her in an awful Dominican jail. The second half involving the football team raiding the prison while wearing their uniforms must be seen to be believed. Particularly hilarious is the scene later on where the football team wipes out the entire Dominican army at an airport and don't even lose a single guy (even though they are wearing cumbersome bright yellow uniforms). Then a guy sticks a grenade inside a football and drop-kicks it into an enemy helicopter, blowing it out of the sky! I honestly could never have dreamt up something any more ludicrous, and this movie is worth the watch for that alone."

So I guess whoever designed the box art was foreign and chose the broncos arbitrarily. And that is the convoluted story why we get to see steve sewell and elway is holding M-16s and alton montgomery firing a bazooka! Amazing.

Nothing short of glorious.

Apparenty Ernest Borgnine, Jim Kelly, and Jim Kick were in that movie.

TDmvp
01-25-2011, 03:51 AM
I think I'm going to have to listen to people who are smarter then me on this one , like guys preferably with phd's ...

The doctor they had on espn was pretty convincing saying do to the swelling and bleeding he couldn't see anyone one playing on it for a weeks worst case , a few days best case and absolutely no way moments after it happens.

I mean he only specializes on the knee and has actually seen one from the inside , where I would just be being a arm chair quarterback know it all moron to even pretend to know the pain he was in during that game... Where a doctor could at least understand whats going on in there to have a idea.

Also I haven't seen one intelligent person yet say Cutler had any business going back in that game if he couldn't defend himself or play at a level he's played in the past and won doing so.


Seems like a pretty dead issue that only petty uneducated morons would even want to debate from the side of Cutler should have did this , or should have did that , or he wasn't so bad hurt he couldn't play or so in so would have did this or that.


Side note ... I have had mcl and ligament issues for years , I used to play catcher and had someone slide into it when I was like 20 and damaged my right mcl and hurt some ligaments on the inner knee . I never had to have surgery but when tweek I have real bad pain on the inner side of my knee , it sorta becomes tight and locks up kinda , and if I try to force it to move normal it basically fails with nothing I can do to stand on it and feels like someone is sticking a knife in inner side of my knee. Sometimes it goes away within hours sometimes days...


F'ed up thing ... I bet I hadn't had any pain in that knee for 5 to 7 years after
when I hurt it and I rehurt it swatting (like a catcher) to pet a cat and that thing aint been the same since... Dr says the stuff I did at 20 as I age is becoming easier to re-injure. I bet I tweek it like 10 times a year now.


NOT saying I know what he went through and I still just go with the PHd having guys statements on the issue , but I know when I tweek mine I'm pretty much a cripple .

The MVPlaya
01-25-2011, 03:56 AM
I think I'm going to have to listen to people who are smarter then me on this one , like guys preferably with phd's ...

NOT saying I know what he went through and I still just go with the PHd having guys statements on the issue , but I know when I tweek mine I'm pretty much a cripple .

And that's EXACTLY why an organization would hire doctors to make such statements.

On top of that, doctors always take a conservative approach to everything, and they're always "amazed" at how _____________ could of played through such pain. Insert the blank with any athlete with any sore of desire and fire to win. Doctor will tell most players NOT to continue playing even at the slightest injury, let's be honest.

You didn't see Curt Schilling turn into a b**** when blood was running through his socks.

You didn't see Brett Favre turn into a b**** through all his injuries, like when his whole damn leg was purple was in the NFC championship game just last year.

Cutler didn't even fight it to come back..

At the end of the day, this is deeper than an injury issue...

TDmvp
01-25-2011, 03:59 AM
And that's EXACTLY why an organization would hire doctors to make such statements.

You didn't see Curt Schilling turn into a b**** when blood was running through his socks.

You didn't see Brett Favre turn into a b**** and cry through all his injuries, when his whole damn leg was purple.

Cutler didn't even fight it to come back..

At the end of the day, this is deeper than an injury issue...



Only to morons , like I said in my opening post...


http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1011/broncosg.jpg

The MVPlaya
01-25-2011, 04:02 AM
Only to morons like I said in my opening post...

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1011/broncosg.jpg

like I read all your posts... sorry, I know you're my bitch and read all my posts like a good bitch would, but I selectively read yours.

And honestly, I skimmed through your post as your were crying, and I barely read anybody elses in this thread, because of the obvious media shuffle.

tsiguy96
01-25-2011, 04:33 AM
socal is back

baja
01-25-2011, 05:34 AM
Really? You dont see the connection? I KNOW you are a smart person. This was the narrative REGARDLESS....hell if he even won the SB and played great, it would be "the D carried him the whole season, its about time he did something halfway decent to contribute his share...Trent Dilfer". There was no way he was going to win on this forum, no matter if he had moderate achievements, great achievements or the ultimate achievement. People totally ignored the fact that whatever was the last step for him, it was like 15 steps more than us. This is like the kid working in the mail room who barely graduated the HS econ class criticizing his firm's growth strategy.


When Cutler had a good game I gave him his due. Over all it's my opinion that Jay Cutler is a physically gifted QB with a poor attitude that will hold his team back. He proved that to me once again by his performance in the NFCC. I will be forever grateful to McD for getting rid of the cancer that is Jay Cutler and before it is all over you will come to come to agree with me. You under estimate and therefore undervalue playing for your team mates. This is Jay's failing that you don't see. Sure he can change but 5 years in he has not. He is the anti Tebow.

strafen
01-25-2011, 06:47 AM
And that's EXACTLY why an organization would hire doctors to make such statements.

On top of that, doctors always take a conservative approach to everything, and they're always "amazed" at how _____________ could of played through such pain. Insert the blank with any athlete with any sore of desire and fire to win. Doctor will tell most players NOT to continue playing even at the slightest injury, let's be honest.

You didn't see Curt Schilling turn into a b**** when blood was running through his socks.

You didn't see Brett Favre turn into a b**** through all his injuries, like when his whole damn leg was purple was in the NFC championship game just last year.

Cutler didn't even fight it to come back..

At the end of the day, this is deeper than an injury issue...English mother****er!

jhns
01-25-2011, 07:07 AM
All of this arguing is dumb. It was the coach that sat Cutler. He can't just go in when the coach benches him. That would be a penalty of 12 men on the field...

Anyways, his teammates and coach have already come to his rescue and are defending him. MJD already backed out from his twitter statements and said sorry. The drama queens here just need some drama to latch onto.

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 07:38 AM
I think the argument might be did Cutler know that if he goes back out there, he can make it worse or did he not go back out there because things werent looking good for him. Let us face it that your body has adreneline and you might not be aware of how serious an injury is at that current state. Jack Youngblood played with a broken leg for the Rams. Now, 2 hours later, he might have felt the pain. I have not said anything for one side of the argument or the other but I am sure this is what people have questioned him on. Sure he was hurt but was he hurt enough at that moment to not tell his coach I want back in? During the game, I saw a ****ty QB performance and a bad teammate when he mopped on the sideline. Great picture of Hanie looking over the playbook/pictures of the formations and Cutler feet away from him not even helping the guy out. That is what would bother me. It was like watching LT reincarnated.
First of all, I've had by a rough count, probably a dozen or more knee injuries, starting with HS football and basketball, then again in martial arts, skiing, hell I even tore a cartiledge playing in a church softball game one time. Rest assured, the only way Jay Cutler sustains a grade 2 MCL sprain, which is a tear, and he isn't aware of it...is if he's been shot up with something before he ever sustained the injury to deal with some other pain. I wouldn't doubt that more than half of the guys on the field are on some kind of industrial strength pain killers or other drugs that mask the pain. People don't perform with torn knee ligaments, broken legs or other serious injuries in the heat of professional competition without some kind of ability to control pain. The first time I tore my knee ligaments it was the MCL and the pain was outlandish. I had plenty of adrenaline flowing, and trust me that is NOT enough for you to continue to play and not even know you're injured. Even if you couldn't feel it, your knee is no longer doing what it's supposed to do so it would be readily apparent fairly quickly, if not immediately.

Second, according to Cutler and Lovie Smith as well as teamates, he DID ask to go back in, and the Bears medical people told him no after examining him further, so I'm not sure where you're getting this thing about not asking to return, because that seems to be just part of the misinformation surround all this.

As for Cutler's performance, he sucked. That however has something to do with the people around him including that offensive line as well as the Packers defense. Elway and every other NFL QB has sucked in a big game so I ask again, who cares? The main reason this guy's in the news is because he doesn't look like he cares...as I said, his emotional affect is pissing people off. But guess what...in almost every pix I've ever seen of this guy, he looks that way no matter what is going on. The dude as far as I know has never cracked a smile in the entire time I"ve watched him. That's him...he's just a guy who carries a blunted affect. Why he does...I neither know nor care. Cutler, so far as I know, has not had his teamates in Denver or Chicago call him out. When he does...it's time to speculate on what's going on in the dude's head. In the meantime, he seems like any other talented but erratic player on the field and he seems like a guy who is uncomfortable around people. Why are we not more interested in what our draft picks that we got for him are doing? That seems like something more relevant that this ****. Seriously...what are there, ten Cutler threads on the front page?

I miss the Plumber debates now. ;D

Gutless Drunk
01-25-2011, 08:03 AM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QmV38UfNDPY" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 08:03 AM
Isn't it fortunate you have this medical opinion to deflect from the fact Cutler shiit the bed in the biggest game of his life. His injury saved him from further embarrassment and his expressive face showed he knew that and was grateful he had an excuse to not be further tested because he knew he was not up to the task. He was relieved to be on the bench.
Speculation based on nothing...

Did you happen to catch the Duke's performance agasinst the 9ers in the 55-10 anal raping they put on R66v6s pathetic team in the Superbowl? He followed that up the next year a 5-11 record and the one after that with another big game loss in the AFC title game to the Bills, leaving him 0-4 in ultimate title games a full NINE YEARS into his career.

Obviously not all Superbowl winning QB's do it in their first 5 years right? Some good ones suck in some big games before they win it right?

Much ado about nothing...

chadta
01-25-2011, 08:04 AM
Thorson added that Grade II MCL tears are the trickiest to diagnose.

yet somehow this magical doctor can diagnose it on a patient he has never seen ?

wow, i wonder if he can tell me why it burns when i pee

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 08:14 AM
And that's EXACTLY why an organization would hire doctors to make such statements.

On top of that, doctors always take a conservative approach to everything, and they're always "amazed" at how _____________ could of played through such pain. Insert the blank with any athlete with any sore of desire and fire to win. Doctor will tell most players NOT to continue playing even at the slightest injury, let's be honest.
You are perhaps the prime example on this board, one of them anyway...of someone who doesn't read for comprehension before you post. Neither doctor quoted was hired to make their remarks, and second...these two guys aren't just doctors, they're renowned surgeons who work with olympic and professional athletes. One operated successfully on the NFL's current MVP. I think he knows more about what is proper in this case than you do, believe it or not.
You didn't see Curt Schilling turn into a b**** when blood was running through his socks.

You didn't see Brett Favre turn into a b**** through all his injuries, like when his whole damn leg was purple was in the NFC championship game just last year.

Cutler didn't even fight it to come back..

At the end of the day, this is deeper than an injury issue...
At the end of the day the average fat-ass football fan sitting on his couch with a case of beer, a blunt and a bag of Dorritos has absolutely no clue what kind of toughness it takes to even make an NFL roster, let alone stand in a collapsing pocket with 300 pound plus linemen who run 4.8 zeroing in on your exposed ribs. On his best day, the fan posting **** on the internet about how tough some guy in the NFL is...isn't in the same league with the NFL's biggest pansy. Safe from the threat of physical harm behind his computer screen, he vents his ire at the object of his scorn...usually because he felt scorned himself in some way by the athlete daring to not aknowledge the value of his unique fandom.

Go figure.

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 08:16 AM
yet somehow this magical doctor can diagnose it on a patient he has never seen ?

wow, i wonder if he can tell me why it burns when i pee
Another one with reading comprehension issues. Is that what you think he did...diagnose his injury? Did you read the short little story or just guess at what it said? I hope you guessed.

Mile High Shack
01-25-2011, 08:17 AM
great...another Cutler thread, just what we needed

http://archvillain.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/not-this-again.jpg

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 08:23 AM
great...another Cutler thread, just what we needed

http://archvillain.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/not-this-again.jpg
TJ needs a new section like the Tailgaters or WRP just for Cutler threads.

Mile High Shack
01-25-2011, 08:25 AM
TJ needs a new section like the Tailgaters or WRP just for Cutler threads.

I'm starting to agree with you, I am having Cutler fatigue

Drek
01-25-2011, 08:35 AM
At the end of the day the average fat-ass football fan sitting on his couch with a case of beer, a blunt and a bag of Dorritos has absolutely no clue what kind of toughness it takes to even make an NFL roster, let alone stand in a collapsing pocket with 300 pound plus linemen who run 4.8 zeroing in on your exposed ribs. On his best day, the fan posting **** on the internet about how tough some guy in the NFL is...isn't in the same league with the NFL's biggest pansy. Safe from the threat of physical harm behind his computer screen, he vents his ire at the object of his scorn...usually because he felt scorned himself in some way by the athlete daring to not aknowledge the value of his unique fandom.

Go figure.

Yes, because getting paid millions to play a game for your profession is so damn taxing.

People need to let go of the hero worship they have towards NFL players. I and a large portion of the crews I work with do far more taxing and dangerous things on a daily basis for less a year than what even a base salary NFL guy gets per game. You don't hear every blue collar worker out there talking about how they're "warriors" and acting like the toughest men in the world when they bust hump 7 days a week yet some guys who spend six days preparing for approximately three hours worth of work act like they're one of the 300.

The only other profession I know that spends as much time prepping for as little actual production as in the NFL is an underwater welder for nuclear reactors. I think that just maybe their job is a bit more physically taxing and dangerous than playing football.

Most doctors say that football is a dangerous sport period. Claiming he could have worsened the injury is about as obvious a statement as it gets. An uninjured player is also highly likely to get hurt if they play professional football.

The Bears training staff didn't seem to be going through your standard "grade II sprained MCL" methods of care (like ice, or crutches, etc.). It really makes you question the accuracy of the "grade II sprain" statement, that or the general competency of Chicago's training staff.

The real pisser though? When Cutler was out he suddenly didn't give a flying **** about the game. Caleb Hanie had him close to going to the Super Bowl and Cutler couldn't manage the least bit of excitement.

*edit*
Best part of this thread though is I see a high level of cross over for those defending Cutler and his phantom "grade II MCL" who also slam Moreno as being a pussy when he happened to have at least a Grade II in the pre-season, followed by re-injury in the regular season. He's a pussy for not showing up in meaningless games but Cutler is a ****ing WARRIOR for even trying one series after the half?

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 08:36 AM
I'm starting to agree with you, I am having Cutler fatigue
I know right...and probably more than any other topic in here, these are always the least reasonable, most vitriolic, least logical, least sensible or even useful conversations...it amazes me that people are literally letting this guy who is not even here anymore, control them to the point that he's more discussed in here than our emerging star that has all the things he lacked! How's that for irony? As determined by jersey sales, the NFL's most popular player gets less attention on his home team's discussion forum than the guy whose been gone two years, one whom most of the fans have said they're glad he's gone.

It's an obsession...has to be for there to be this level of reaction. What I find interesting is the way things now move virally and the technology literally spreads instant information, yet it's like 90% can't seem to muster any sense of comprehension.

Go figure.

KO5K
01-25-2011, 08:40 AM
All of this arguing is dumb. It was the coach that sat Cutler. He can't just go in when the coach benches him. That would be a penalty of 12 men on the field...

Anyways, his teammates and coach have already come to his rescue and are defending him. MJD already backed out from his twitter statements and said sorry. The drama queens here just need some drama to latch onto.

Off the record, several teammates looked at Cutler amid the postgame wreckage and shook their heads. “I aint’ gonna say nothing,” one Bears player said privately, “but I don’t see a brace on that knee. Do you?”

...

vancejohnson82
01-25-2011, 08:44 AM
*edit*
Best part of this thread though is I see a high level of cross over for those defending Cutler and his phantom "grade II MCL" who also slam Moreno as being a p***Y when he happened to have at least a Grade II in the pre-season, followed by re-injury in the regular season. He's a p***Y for not showing up in meaningless games but Cutler is a ****ing WARRIOR for even trying one series after the half?

well done

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 08:49 AM
Yes, because getting paid millions to play a game for your profession is so damn taxing.

People need to let go of the hero worship they have towards NFL players. I and a large portion of the crews I work with do far more taxing and dangerous things on a daily basis for less a year than what even a base salary NFL guy gets per game. You don't hear every blue collar worker out there talking about how they're "warriors" and acting like the toughest men in the world when they bust hump 7 days a week yet some guys who spend six days preparing for approximately three hours worth of work act like they're one of the 300.

The only other profession I know that spends as much time prepping for as little actual production as in the NFL is an underwater welder for nuclear reactors. I think that just maybe their job is a bit more physically taxing and dangerous than playing football.

Most doctors say that football is a dangerous sport period. Claiming he could have worsened the injury is about as obvious a statement as it gets. An uninjured player is also highly likely to get hurt if they play professional football.

The Bears training staff didn't seem to be going through your standard "grade II sprained MCL" methods of care (like ice, or crutches, etc.). It really makes you question the accuracy of the "grade II sprain" statement, that or the general competency of Chicago's training staff.

The real pisser though? When Cutler was out he suddenly didn't give a flying **** about the game. Caleb Hanie had him close to going to the Super Bowl and Cutler couldn't manage the least bit of excitement.

*edit*
Best part of this thread though is I see a high level of cross over for those defending Cutler and his phantom "grade II MCL" who also slam Moreno as being a p***Y when he happened to have at least a Grade II in the pre-season, followed by re-injury in the regular season. He's a p***Y for not showing up in meaningless games but Cutler is a ****ing WARRIOR for even trying one series after the half?
Well thanks for confirming my observations about the unreasoned nature of discussion in the threads involving Cutler. See the prior post for input on why that is.

So your point here is what? That the market over values pro sports in relation to their contribution to society? OK fine, we agree. Who cares? It has nothing to do with my point, that the average fat-ass fan posting **** on the internet about how an NFL player is a pansy, wouldn't stand a chance of doing the same thing that guy does. Who cares what the market values? The point is...internet tough guys are legion...we both know probably nobody in here would tell Cutler to his face he's a pussy...seriously? I'd like to see that. Some lard-o living in his mother's basement working nights at Walmart gets to weigh in on the toughness of NFL players...I just find that pretty funny.

As I'm typing...I'm listening to some guys who know what they're talking about on the NFLN right now...Brian Billick and Mora Jr. are talking sense...listen to 'em.

ColoradoDarin
01-25-2011, 08:57 AM
So word has gone out, we must CYA on Cutler! Why wasn't he getting treatment for it? Ice, crutches and/or brace?

PS. Is this the same doc that Brady complained about screwing up his knee surgery, or is that someone else?

Kaylore
01-25-2011, 08:58 AM
Really? You dont see the connection? I KNOW you are a smart person. This was the narrative REGARDLESS....hell if he even won the SB and played great, it would be "the D carried him the whole season, its about time he did something halfway decent to contribute his share...Trent Dilfer". There was no way he was going to win on this forum, no matter if he had moderate achievements, great achievements or the ultimate achievement. People totally ignored the fact that whatever was the last step for him, it was like 15 steps more than us. This is like the kid working in the mail room who barely graduated the HS econ class criticizing his firm's growth strategy.

There is no connection. We had a better passing offense than them and committed fewer turnovers. The difference is they had the number 4 defense and number 1 special teams and could actually run the ball; All things that have nothing to do with Jay Cutler. There's a lot of QB's in the league that could have been the Bears QB and had that same record. Similarly, I don't believe that Cutler being our QB would have made us any better.

TonyR
01-25-2011, 08:58 AM
It's clear he had a mediocre/below average game...

You really think he was "mediocre/below average"? Here are the number of plays and yards gained in the 7 Chi possessions with Cutler at QB:
5/29
3/4
3/0
6/36
6/22
1/25
3/6
Points scored: 0

If Orton put up a performance like that I'm sure you'd be making excuses for him too, right?

Taco John
01-25-2011, 08:59 AM
Can someone show me the twitter link to these doctors? It's not real unless they've twittered it.

Ratboy
01-25-2011, 09:01 AM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QmV38UfNDPY" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

What a quitter.

baja
01-25-2011, 09:03 AM
<b>Speculation based on nothing...</b>

Did you happen to catch the Duke's performance agasinst the 9ers in the 55-10 anal raping they put on R66v6s pathetic team in the Superbowl? He followed that up the next year a 5-11 record and the one after that with another big game loss in the AFC title game to the Bills, leaving him 0-4 in ultimate title games a full NINE YEARS into his career.

Obviously not all Superbowl winning QB's do it in their first 5 years right? Some good ones suck in some big games before they win it right?

Much ado about nothing...

Take away speculation and the OM ceases to exist.

TonyR
01-25-2011, 09:04 AM
Cutler has no weapons on the offense.


Forte is one of the best all around backs in the league. And while Knox/Bennett/Hester/Olsen is definitely a below average group I think "no weapons" is a little overboard.

Gutless Drunk
01-25-2011, 09:08 AM
What a quitter.

It's unbelievable. He is even walking and standing on the sidelines...no full body cast or anything.

Dedhed
01-25-2011, 09:24 AM
Schlereth didn't back off Monday.
"First of all, a first-grade tear of an MCL is a boo-boo," said the former Broncos guard, who had several MCL sprains and 20 knee surgeries. "If it truly is a second-degree tear, then yeah, that's legit. There's pain. But I know one guy who would have played with it. I know a bunch of guys who could play with it. Philip Rivers would have played with it. Brett Favre would have played with it. Kyle Orton would have played with it.
"Some guys gut it up, and some guys don't."


Read more: FYI, Cutler critics: Bears QB has torn MCL - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17188961#ixzz1C44rjZee
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 09:24 AM
Take away speculation and the OM ceases to exist.
Are you sure about that? ;D

Drek
01-25-2011, 09:29 AM
Well thanks for confirming my observations about the unreasoned nature of discussion in the threads involving Cutler. See the prior post for input on why that is.

So your point here is what? That the market over values pro sports in relation to their contribution to society? OK fine, we agree. Who cares? It has nothing to do with my point, that the average fat-ass fan posting **** on the internet about how an NFL player is a pansy, wouldn't stand a chance of doing the same thing that guy does. Who cares what the market values? The point is...internet tough guys are legion...we both know probably nobody in here would tell Cutler to his face he's a p***Y...seriously? I'd like to see that. Some lard-o living in his mother's basement working nights at Walmart gets to weigh in on the toughness of NFL players...I just find that pretty funny.

As I'm typing...I'm listening to some guys who know what they're talking about on the NFLN right now...Brian Billick and Mora Jr. are talking sense...listen to 'em.

1. Billick and Jim Mora Jr. are your gold standards for people who know about working through physical pain? Seriously?

2. The financial implications are obviously inherently tied in here. Playing in the NFL, complete with the physical tole, is something almost everyone would choose to do because of the financial rewards associated. Playing/working through pain is a risk/reward equation. Cutler didn't see a worthwhile risk/reward scenario to fight through for an SB berth, he happens to have a guaranteed contract. Meanwhile I've seen people go to work with cracked vertebrae for marginally better pay than minimum wage because they like their kids having food on the table.

You brought up toughness. I'm pointing out how in a relative sense Cutler's work environment is pretty ****ing marshmallow soft.

3. The "average fan" of the NFL is not some keyboard warrior who works at walmart. Demographics suggest that NFL fandom is strongest amongst blue collar workers, always has been. You know, people who bust ass every day. So your depiction of the average fan is wildly off-base. Your average blue collar worker calling Cutler a pussy for not playing through it is well within his rights because chances are they've worked through worse.

baja
01-25-2011, 09:31 AM
Are you sure about that? ;D

No I'm speculating ;D

Dedhed
01-25-2011, 09:42 AM
What a quitter.

Comparing Sharpe/Tomlinson to Quitler is apples to oranges in terms of running cutting, etc.

Limited mobility has far more impact on a RB/TE/WR than it would on a QB.

jhns
01-25-2011, 09:45 AM
Comparing Sharpe/Tomlinson to Quitler is apples to oranges in terms of running cutting, etc.

Limited mobility has far more impact on a RB/TE/WR than it would on a QB.

Says the guy that hasn't seen Chicagos offensive line play this year...

Dedhed
01-25-2011, 09:50 AM
I wonder if Cutler could look Dennis Byrd in the eye, who in a pre-game speech to the Jets said he would give every worldly possession he has for the chance to get back on the field for one single play.

That there are 3 parts to a man; the body, the mind, and the spirit. As a football player there comes a time when when your body will call for you to quit, and there comes a time when your mind will tell you the task at hand is too difficult.

In those times it's the strength of your spirit that will carry you, and what your body and mind say will bend to the will of your spirit.

That is what sport is about.

What we saw Sunday was Cutler's spirit for the game laid bare, and it was utterly lacking.

baja
01-25-2011, 09:57 AM
I wonder if Cutler could look Dennis Byrd in the eye, who in a pre-game speech to the Jets said he would give every worldly possession he has for the chance to get back on the field for one single play.

That there are 3 parts to a man; the body, the mind, and the spirit. As a football player there comes a time when when your body will call for you to quit, and there comes a time when your mind will tell you the task at hand is too difficult.

In those times it's the strength of your spirit that will carry you, and what your body and mind say will bend to the will of your spirit.

That is what sport is about.

What we saw Sunday was Cutler's spirit for the game laid bare, and it was utterly lacking.

Very well said

At the end of the day this is what matters.

It is what makes up a "football player" that so many coaches talk about.

We have Tebow and Cutler & Marshall are gone, I'll take a 4 and 12 season for this any day.

NhocCuteGirlz
01-25-2011, 09:57 AM
if you honestly think the issue is actually about the injury you are kidding yourself
__________________

Mr Chatterboodamn
01-25-2011, 09:59 AM
I wonder if Cutler could look Dennis Byrd in the eye, who in a pre-game speech to the Jets said he would give every worldly possession he has for the chance to get back on the field for one single play.

That there are 3 parts to a man; the body, the mind, and the spirit. As a football player there comes a time when when your body will call for you to quit, and there comes a time when your mind will tell you the task at hand is too difficult.

In those times it's the strength of your spirit that will carry you, and what your body and mind say will bend to the will of your spirit.

That is what sport is about.

What we saw Sunday was Cutler's spirit for the game laid bare, and it was utterly lacking.

The spirit of the 1960's is alive and well!

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 10:03 AM
1. Billick and Jim Mora Jr. are your gold standards for people who know about working through physical pain? Seriously?
No that's your characterization designed to meet your requirement for a straw-man argument. I merely said they were making sense and you ought to have a listen...don't care to, no skin off my teeth.
2. The financial implications are obviously inherently tied in here. Playing in the NFL, complete with the physical tole, is something almost everyone would choose to do because of the financial rewards associated. Playing/working through pain is a risk/reward equation. Cutler didn't see a worthwhile risk/reward scenario to fight through for an SB berth, he happens to have a guaranteed contract. Meanwhile I've seen people go to work with cracked vertebrae for marginally better pay than minimum wage because they like their kids having food on the table.

You brought up toughness. I'm pointing out how in a relative sense Cutler's work environment is pretty ****ing marshmallow soft.

3. The "average fan" of the NFL is not some keyboard warrior who works at walmart. Demographics suggest that NFL fandom is strongest amongst blue collar workers, always has been. You know, people who bust ass every day. So your depiction of the average fan is wildly off-base. Your average blue collar worker calling Cutler a p***Y for not playing through it is well within his rights because chances are they've worked through worse.
See this is what I'm talking about; exhibit A in support of the idea that these Cutler threads just flat suck. They're unreasoned, illogical, wildly veering in all directions...basically what you're doing. Who give a **** if blue collar workers this that or the other...blah blah blah...my point is it's easy to do two things in this disucssion right now;

1) be an internet doctor
2) be an internet tough guy

Add that up...it makes for boredom...every thread is the same, why not just combine them all? It doesn't matter what the thread title is, it's going to deteriorate just like this one because you have some people who can't stay on topic, you have a general abandonment of logic or rationality, as well as numerous morons in here who have the reading comprehension skills typical of elementary public school students. So I don't really care about the supposed blue collar nature of fans, we're talking internet docs and tough guys here! Hilarious!

It's so ridiculous what this board becomes over a guy who isn't even here now.

baja
01-25-2011, 10:41 AM
footsteps27 - It's so ridiculous what this board becomes over a guy who isn't even here now.

Says the guy with the most long winded posts on the topic. ;D

Rohirrim
01-25-2011, 11:49 AM
I think Cutler is a schmuck. I enjoy making fun of him. I used to enjoy making fun of Favre, but he's gone now. Rapistburger is also a good butt of jokes, as is Vick. What could be more fun as an opposing fan than to see some schmuck QB that some other team gave up a bunch of draft picks to your team to get, utterly fail in their biggest game and then sit on the warming bench with his Ipod on and his hood up due to a suspect injury? People are whining that it's a soap opera, or a drama, or whatever. I call it entertainment. ;D

vancejohnson82
01-25-2011, 11:54 AM
I think Cutler is a schmuck. I enjoy making fun of him. I used to enjoy making fun of Favre, but he's gone now. Rapistburger is also a good butt of jokes, as is Vick. What could be more fun as an opposing fan than to see some schmuck QB that some other team gave up a bunch of draft picks to your team to get, utterly fail in their biggest game and then sit on the warming bench with his Ipod on and his hood up due to a suspect injury? People are whining that it's a soap opera, or a drama, or whatever. I call it entertainment. ;D

to be fair, its the only football thats happened lately too. It's not like we are just digging up old news

TonyR
01-25-2011, 11:56 AM
I used to enjoy making fun of Favre, but he's gone now. Rapistburger is also a good butt of jokes, as is Vick.

What just dawned on me reading this is that regardly what you think about them personally all three of those guys are significantly more respected around the league than Cutler for whatever reasons. I don't think any of them would have produced the reaction Cutler got in similar circumstances.

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 01:32 PM
Says the guy with the most long winded posts on the topic. ;D
No...I rarely ever post on Cutler. In fact up till recently I doubt I've posted anything on him for weeks. Maybe a drive by opinion...this topic bores the crap out of me...doesn't it you? Seriously? Ugh...another Cutler thread, and each one spawns additional Cutler threads like rabbits breeding.

TonyR
01-25-2011, 01:45 PM
Ugh...another Cutler thread...

You yourself started two of them within ~24 hours...

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 02:55 PM
You yourself started two of them within ~24 hours...
And both of them had an actual legit reason for existence, providing new information relevant to all the current discussions taking place about his injury as opposed to the silly slam-fest threads that usually go up on him.

Just starting random Cutler threads like "This thread is about Jay Cutler", etc...boring and useless.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2011, 03:08 PM
I believe Jay Cutler's doctor about as much as I believe a guy wearing a packer's tie at a car dealership

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 03:50 PM
I believe Jay Cutler's doctor about as much as I believe a guy wearing a packer's tie at a car dealership
Right. Neither of these guys is Jay Cutler's doctor.

Next.

bendog
01-25-2011, 03:56 PM
Cutler gave himself the injury so he wouldn't have to play anymore~!!!

SportinOne
01-25-2011, 04:18 PM
We know cutler is a horrible human being because we don't like his body language. This is hilarious this is one scorned bronco nation I for one didnt want him to win but holy crap the guy had a torn mcl. Other than that nothings changed.

i posted a thread exactly about this, and got promptly flamed by a group of flamers...

ho hum

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2011, 04:52 PM
Right. Neither of these guys is Jay Cutler's doctor.

Next.

That makes their opinion even less valid because they are talking qbout a patient that didn't even see. further ...your Jay Cutler is a loser.

misturanderson
01-25-2011, 05:11 PM
The biggest issue I had was the utter lack of interest he was showing not only for how his team was doing, but for any help that his 3rd string QB, that had just been thrown to the wolves, may have needed. He was just sitting next to him, staring off into space. He would crack a smile when they scored, but that was the only thing he did on the sideline other than mope after he got pulled.

Put a real leader in that position and you bet your ass they would be trying to rally the troops.

I'm also wondering why he wasn't icing his knee if he tore his MCL as badly as is being claimed. That's just basic first-aid treatment for sprains.

baja
01-25-2011, 05:21 PM
The biggest issue I had was the utter lack of interest he was showing not only for how his team was doing, but for any help that his 3rd string QB, that had just been thrown to the wolves, may have needed. He was just sitting next to him, staring off into space. He would crack a smile when they scored, but that was the only thing he did on the sideline other than mope after he got pulled.

Put a real leader in that position and you bet your ass they would be trying to rally the troops.

<b>I'm also wondering why he wasn't icing his knee if he tore his MCL as badly as is being claimed. That's just basic first-aid treatment for sprains.

Maybe they were afraid if they got ice on it right away he might be ready to play in the Super Bowl had Hanie been able to beat GB.

Missouribronc
01-25-2011, 08:07 PM
Maybe they were afraid if they got ice on it right away he might be ready to play in the Super Bowl had Hanie been able to beat GB.

Yet Lovie went to Todd Collins first...

Bears fail.

footstepsfrom#27
01-25-2011, 08:17 PM
That makes their opinion even less valid because they are talking qbout a patient that didn't even see. further ...your Jay Cutler is a loser.
I don't give two ****s about Cutler, I'm just amazed that you and yours still do...two years later. We have Tebow and you're still worried about Cutler...amazing.

You apparently didn't read the report did you? They weren't diagnosing a patient, seen or otherwise, and there's nothing invalid about two highly trained orthopedic surgeons who work with olympic and professional athletes discussing something they know more about than you or I do. They were validating the procedure the Bears followed in making a decision to sit Cutler, not commenting on "a patient they didn't even see" as you put it. If you actually read the story you'll understand that what they're saying is that a Grade 2 MCL is a tricky thing to diagnose and it could be worse than you think it is, which is why to be on the safe side, you rest your multi-million dollar QB in a game he wasn't very effective in there BEFORE the injury...so why risk playing him AFTER the injury?

Got it?

FAIL.

elsid13
01-25-2011, 08:30 PM
The biggest issue I had was the utter lack of interest he was showing not only for how his team was doing, but for any help that his 3rd string QB, that had just been thrown to the wolves, may have needed. He was just sitting next to him, staring off into space. He would crack a smile when they scored, but that was the only thing he did on the sideline other than mope after he got pulled.

Put a real leader in that position and you bet your ass they would be trying to rally the troops.

I'm also wondering why he wasn't icing his knee if he tore his MCL as badly as is being claimed. That's just basic first-aid treatment for sprains.

They only ice if there is swelling.

misturanderson
01-25-2011, 10:36 PM
They only ice if there is swelling.

Which there should have been if these experts are to be believed. Or really if it is to be believed that he sprained anything.

You don't tear a ligament and not have swelling due to the inflammation that results. It's simple physiology. You ice sprains to prevent and reduce the swelling, not because there is swelling.

Mr Chatterboodamn
01-25-2011, 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by Mr Chatterboodamn
I came across the image randomly on some hipster tumblr and i was like OMG!! I couldn't find any direct source, but I did some sleuthing and I have a good guess what it is. It says "The Last Match" in english, and this is probably the cover art for the asian laser disc for this 1990 Italian movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099984/

Plot: "Somewhere on an island in the Caribean a girl is imprisoned for owning drugs. As she is the daughter of a football team coach help is soon on the way: the entire team mounts an expedition to set her free"

The one user review on there is hilarious:

"The first half is rather dull with Tobias searching for his daughter and finding her in an awful Dominican jail. The second half involving the football team raiding the prison while wearing their uniforms must be seen to be believed. Particularly hilarious is the scene later on where the football team wipes out the entire Dominican army at an airport and don't even lose a single guy (even though they are wearing cumbersome bright yellow uniforms). Then a guy sticks a grenade inside a football and drop-kicks it into an enemy helicopter, blowing it out of the sky! I honestly could never have dreamt up something any more ludicrous, and this movie is worth the watch for that alone."

So I guess whoever designed the box art was foreign and chose the broncos arbitrarily. And that is the convoluted story why we get to see steve sewell and elway is holding M-16s and alton montgomery firing a bazooka! Amazing.

I must find that movie. A grenade stuffed into a football and kicked into a helicopter? Is there anything more awesome?

I think not.


Nothing short of glorious.

Apparenty Ernest Borgnine, Jim Kelly, and Jim Kick were in that movie.


Dudes! I found some scenes from the movie depicted in my avatar on Youtube. It most definitely delivers! "Needs to be seen to be believed" is correct.

Airport Dominican Army Wipeout / Football Grenade --> Helicopter Scene
<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kxUrQyER49k" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

Final Rescue Siege w/ helmets and full pads!
<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/l8LI8xJf5Hk" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

epicSocialism4tw
01-26-2011, 12:22 AM
Dudes! I found some scenes from the movie depicted in my avatar on Youtube. It most definitely delivers! "Needs to be seen to be believed" is correct.

Airport Dominican Army Wipeout / Football Grenade --> Helicopter Scene
<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kxUrQyER49k" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

Final Rescue Siege w/ helmets and full pads!
<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/l8LI8xJf5Hk" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

"Now listen up boys...this is one game we cant lose."

-Coach Earnest Borgnine addressing the players en route to the rescue siege.


Brilliant.

I love it when the 80's unintentionally mocks itself.

footstepsfrom#27
01-26-2011, 02:19 AM
Wow...that's just horrible and pathetic. I wonder where I can get a copy? Hilarious!