If You Eat Processed Meats, Are You Risking Your Life?

[baja]

A review of more than 7,000 clinical studies examining the connection between diet and cancer came to a stark conclusion: No one should eat processed meats.

The World Cancer Research Fund came to the following conclusion:

"There is strong evidence that ... processed meats are causes of bowel cancer, and that there is no amount of processed meat that can be confidently shown not to increase risk ...

Try to avoid processed meats such as bacon, ham, salami, corned beef and some sausages."

You read that right -- no amount of processed meat is safe.

The reaction of the meat industry was swift, and they promptly accused the report of being erroneous and a tool of the "anti-meat" lobby. Professor Martin Wiseman, project director of the report, replied:

"These insinuations are nothing short of outrageous ... WCRF commissioned the report with money raised from the general public and therefore it was not influenced by any vested interests.

The fact is that our report is the most comprehensive and authoritative review of the evidence that has ever been published and it found convincing evidence that ... processed meat ... increase[s] risk of bowel cancer."

So no more 7 dollar hot dogs at the game...

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/01/22/if-you-eat-processed-meats-youre-risking-your-life.aspx

[Rohirrim]

I'd rather be dead. ;D

[baja]

This may sound like an extraordinary statement to some, but at the deep subconscious levels of the mind, any person diagnosed with cancer has decided that life is too hard, too painful and too overwhelming, and that death is the preferable option to life.

At the conscious level of the mind, the person diagnosed with cancer is still wanting to live, but at the deeper subconscious level of the mind, the person is “feeling” that life is simply too hard and unbearable.

This creates a chain reaction process where the subconscious mind literally instructs the immune system to slow down and stop working altogether. This causes healthy somatids (tiny living organisms necessary for life that live in our blood) to pleomorphise or change into yeast-like fungus that creates cancer in the body over an 18-24 month period. See: The Cancer-Stress Link to see how this occurs within the body.

But how do we know this? How do we know that cancer is a subconscious death wish – a not wanting to live anymore, but rather, a wanting to die?

Below are three extraordinary channeled readings from Spirit, from the Universal Christ Mind or God, that explain exactly how cancer is a wanting to die. More importantly, these communications explain exactly how you can reverse this subconscious death wish and choose life again.

http://www.alternative-cancer-care.com/The_Cancer_Death_Wish.html

[Rohirrim]

Does this mean that if I continue to uphold a cheery outlook on life, I can continue to eat pepperoni?

[baja]

Does this mean that if I continue to uphold a cheery outlook on life, I can continue to eat pepperoni?

to a degree yes

[baja]

Deep appreciation of the gift of life is the major component to health and longevity.

The body does as it's told and can't be fooled

[Rohirrim]

to a degree yes

This creates a strange conundrum: What if eating bacon and pepperoni makes you happy? What's more important, happiness, or diet? For some people, eating a diet that would be strictly good for them (whole grains, fruits, vegetables, no meat, no dairy, no sugar, etc.) would make their lives considerably less enjoyable. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

[baja]

This creates a strange conundrum: What if eating bacon and pepperoni makes you happy? What's more important, happiness, or diet? For some people, eating a diet that would be strictly good for them (whole grains, fruits, vegetables, no meat, no dairy, no sugar, etc.) would make their lives considerably less enjoyable. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

If eating alone made you happy we would all weigh 700 pounds and live to be 200.

Actually people eat to fill an emptiness (I believe a Spiritual emptiness)

You have made a false assumption that healthy food is not enjoyable when in fact it can be extremely tasty not to mention the overall feeling of well being you receive from a continued healthy diet. Trick is to know what a healthy diet is for you the individual because it's different for everyone.

[chadta]

Try to avoid processed meats such as bacon, ham, salami, corned beef and some sausages."

i should be dead already than

[baja]

i should be dead already than

Science can find no reason we should only live 80 or so years. Actually the body replaces every cell every 7 years. We kill ourselves with what we eat but because of the amazingness of the human body it takes 70 or 80 years on average to do it.

[baja]

http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/treatments/a/DietLongevity.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/02/science/02cell.html

[Rohirrim]

Science can find no reason we should only live 80 or so years. Actually the body replaces every cell every 7 years. We kill ourselves with what we eat but because of the amazingness of the human body it takes 70 or 80 years on average to do it.

I think it's more complex than that. We actually have genes that shut things down, or send out shut off signals. For instance, hormone regulation. Some glands get a signal at a particular age and stop producing, or diminish production, of various hormones. Everything in the universe is born, lives, and dies - even the stars. There's no way around it.

[baja]

I think it's more complex than that. We actually have genes that shut things down, or send out shut off signals. For instance, hormone regulation. Some glands get a signal at a particular age and stop producing, or diminish production, of various hormones. Everything in the universe is born, lives, and dies - even the stars. There's no way around it.

So it would seem. But you can not deny the potential.

[Rohirrim]

The problem with reality is acceptance. ;D

[baja]

I think it's more complex than that. We actually have genes that shut things down, or send out shut off signals. For instance, hormone regulation. Some glands get a signal at a particular age and stop producing, or diminish production, of various hormones. Everything in the universe is born, lives, and dies - even the stars. There's no way around it.

Yes it is more complex. We are discussing the roll human will plays in longevity and I submit that is the difference maker. Check out "Molecules of Emotion by Candice Pert

[baja]

The problem with reality is acceptance. ;D

I would say reality is a belief.

for example;

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p95.htm#NapoleanHill

or even what we believe to be hard reality;

http://www.horuscentre.org/images/Life_and_Teaching-Vol_1.pdf

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Colon cancer is going the way of HIV. It is essentially a chronic illness these days.

[baja]

Colon cancer is going the way of HIV. It is essentially a chronic illness these days.

http://www.thechinastudy.com/

[Dr. Broncenstein]

If it tastes good, spit it out.

[baja]

If it tastes good, spit it out.

Funny that's what she said...

[NhocCuteGirlz]

I'd rather be dead. images/smilies/big-grin.gif
__________________

[baja]

Taste is defined by habit as much as anything. How else can you explain Kimchi

[Los Broncos]

Eat well, stay fit, still die :)

[Requiem]

I've been doing my best to stay away from processed meats.

My meals lately consist of all types of noodles or rice with chicken and veggies. Different styles of cooking every night. Fruits and water for one of my meals, usually breakfast. If I ever have any meat, it is usually chicken or seafood.

I haven't ate too much meat lately over the past few weeks, especially as much as I used to and I feel a lot better.

[baja]

Eat well, stay fit, still die :)

Eat well, stay fit, enjoy a higher quality of life, live longer, transition into the next thing.

[DenverBrit]

You'll need excellent health coverage to survive eating that crap.

[baja]

You'll need excellent health coverage to survive eating that crap.

Don't know why they call it health care. Why don't they call it what it is; disease symptom management

[Fedaykin]

Processed anything is pretty much tasty poison: Salts, refined sugars (e.g. corn syrup), preservatives, petrochemicals, etc.

[mhgaffney]

I avoid processed foods-- and eat whole foods, whenever possible -- including raw vegetables.

Nothing wrong with salt BTW. Unless you suffer from high blood pressure. Salt is good.

[Boomhauer]

You'll need excellent health coverage to survive eating that crap.

As far as processed foods; You get as many carcinogens from city air and water as cigarettes and Slim Jims. If you live within the confines of sewers and streets, you can forget ideals of a chemical free lifestyle. While also containing carcinogens, it's important to eat fire-grilled and real-smoked food to maintain appendix function and prevent infection. Or if you're Baja, eat ashes when fasting.

As far as vegetarians; Millions of years of evolution makes it unhealthy to eliminate your required intake of fat and protein. Can work for some, but my metabolism and genetics are tuned for a carnivorous diet and doesn't process carbs unless starving and never veg protein. Only dietary action I take, other than listening to what my body needs, is to eat veg oil and fish as much as possible to improve permability of my cell walls through replacing cholesterol.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

You know what is about a million times more likely to kill you than processed food? Riding in a car. If there was any germ or preservative that killed 50,000 otherwise healthy people per year in the US alone, the world would come to a screeching halt. But we just jump in a car without blinking an eye and worry about shiat that is about as likely as a bolt from the blue.

[Fedaykin]

I avoid processed foods-- and eat whole foods, whenever possible -- including raw vegetables.

Nothing wrong with salt BTW. Unless you suffer from high blood pressure. Salt is good.

Salt is a highly important nutrient -- but nothing is good for you if you eat too much of it. The average american diet has many times more salt than healthy -- in part because of all the processed food which contains boat loads of the stuff.

[Fedaykin]

You know what is about a million times more likely to kill you than processed food? Riding in a car. If there was any germ or preservative that killed 50,000 otherwise healthy people per year in the US alone, the world would come to a screeching halt. But we just jump in a car without blinking an eye and worry about shiat that is about as likely as a bolt from the blue.

Heart disease, diabetes and cancer kill far more people than auto accidents. Both are increased by poor diet laced with refined sugars, massive overdoses of salt and various chemicals.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Heart disease, diabetes and cancer kill far more people than auto accidents. Both are increased by poor diet laced with refined sugars, massive overdoses of salt and various chemicals.

The OP is related to the risk of "bowel cancer," which I assume to mean colon cancer. Technically speaking there is the occasional cancer of the small intestine, but its at least 100:1 large bowel. Even in metastatic colon cancer, the treatment is so good these days that it is often converted into a chronic illness. I can count on one hand the number of patients I've operated for colon cancer that died of their disease in the last five years.

Heart disease and cancer are the most common killers of people over the age of 50. Trauma, specifically motor vehicle trauma, is the most common killer of people below the age of 50. Complications of diabetes in the form of heart disease, stroke, renal failure, etc is what leads to death in diabetics... not hyperglycemia.

[Rohirrim]

I replaced sugar with raw, unfiltered honey a few years ago, and now I couldn't go back. My pallet now appreciates the flavors in honey so much more that refined sugar just tastes like chemicals to me. Anyway, most things can be enjoyed in moderation. It's one thing to have a slice of pie. It's another to eat a whole pie.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

I replaced sugar with raw, unfiltered honey a few years ago, and now I couldn't go back. My pallet now appreciates the flavors in honey so much more that refined sugar just tastes like chemicals to me. Anyway, most things can be enjoyed in moderation. It's one thing to have a slice of pie. It's another to eat a whole pie.

http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/apple_pie_350.jpg

What enjoying a pie without moderation might look like.

[baja]

I avoid processed foods-- and eat whole foods, whenever possible -- including raw vegetables.

Nothing wrong with salt BTW. Unless you suffer from high blood pressure. Salt is good.

Not only is salt good it is necessary but not common table (refined) salt. You want naturally processed sea salt or Himalayan Salt. Big difference.

[baja]

As far as processed foods; You get as many carcinogens from city air and water as cigarettes and Slim Jims. If you live within the confines of sewers and streets, you can forget ideals of a chemical free lifestyle. While also containing carcinogens, it's important to eat fire-grilled and real-smoked food to maintain appendix function and prevent infection. Or if you're Baja, eat ashes when fasting.

As far as vegetarians; Millions of years of evolution makes it unhealthy to eliminate your required intake of fat and protein. Can work for some, but my metabolism and genetics are tuned for a carnivorous diet and doesn't process carbs unless starving and never veg protein. Only dietary action I take, other than listening to what my body needs, is to eat veg oil and fish as much as possible to improve permability of my cell walls through replacing cholesterol.

What you really want for fat is a balance of Omega 3,6,9 and you can get that al from the vegetable kingdom although Krill oil (small marine animal) is the best. As for protein almost everything has protein and pound for pound the highest source for protein is in algae. It is not necessary to eat animal products for optimum health but you can also do very well by eating animal products in small amounts. Fermented milk products (Kiefer yogurt ) are very good for you.

I do agree with Boomhauer in that some people seem to do best with having animal products in their diet, we are all different.


BTW I fast during the season changes and on festive holidays (Xmas etc) sometimes it's a water fast other times it's the Master Cleanse (goggle it) but mostly it's a fresh green juice I make. (Celery, cucumber, apple, cilantro, lemon and Aloe Vera).

[baja]

You know what is about a million times more likely to kill you than processed food? Riding in a car. If there was any germ or preservative that killed 50,000 otherwise healthy people per year in the US alone, the world would come to a screeching halt. But we just jump in a car without blinking an eye and worry about shiat that is about as likely as a bolt from the blue.

Want to know the #4 killer in America?

http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewarticle.asp?id=57448

[Fedaykin]

Not only is salt good it is necessary but not common table (refined) salt. You want naturally processed sea salt or Himalayan Salt. Big difference.

There's no difference between sea salt and table salt in terms of sodium intake -- which is the problem with salt.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Want to know the #4 killer in America?

http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewarticle.asp?id=57448

It certainly is an epidemic in Oklahoma. Almost always these legal meds were illegally obtained and taken in excessive doses or with synergistic medications. Right now in Oklahoma, diversion of legal meds is on pace to be the number one killer for the 35-50 year olds.

[baja]

There's no difference between sea salt and table salt in terms of sodium intake -- which is the problem with salt.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/table-salt-vs-sea-salt-difference-between-sea-salt-and-table-salt.html


http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art2440.asp

[Fedaykin]

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/table-salt-vs-sea-salt-difference-between-sea-salt-and-table-salt.html


http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art2440.asp

*facepalm* The only difference between sea salt and table salt is that sea salt contains additional trace minerals and is refined differently. This combines to provide a slight difference in taste and texture. Regardless, both are almost pure sodium chloride.

Salt is salt -- but I know you'll keep believing in your mumbo jumbo so carry on.

[baja]

*facepalm* The only difference between sea salt and table salt is that sea salt contains additional trace minerals and is refined differently. This combines to provide a slight difference in taste and texture. Regardless, both are almost pure sodium chloride.

Salt is salt -- but I know you'll keep believing in your mumbo jumbo so carry on.

Fine I'm not here to change your mind about anything;

http://www.saltinstitute.org/Issues-in-focus/Food-salt-health/Iodized-salt-other-additives/Additives-use-in-salt

[mhgaffney]

Let's compile a list of the nutrients absolutely essential for health. PLease add t this list if I leave out something. (I probably will.)

the amino acids
the three fatty acids
the vitamins
about 65+ trace minerals

This is a start

[JJJ]

Fine I'm not here to change your mind about anything;

http://www.saltinstitute.org/Issues-in-focus/Food-salt-health/Iodized-salt-other-additives/Additives-use-in-salt

When you get that goiter at least you will know why.

[baja]

When you get that goiter at least you will know why.

I am waiting for the day when you will contribute something useful.

[JJJ]

I am waiting for the day when you will contribute something useful.

Indeed, something to ponder over a pepperoni stick and a Slurpee.

[baja]

Indeed, something to ponder over a pepperoni stick and a Slurpee.

Not me I don't put that stuff in my body

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Let's compile a list of the nutrients absolutely essential for health. PLease add t this list if I leave out something. (I probably will.)

the amino acids
the three fatty acids
the vitamins
about 65+ trace minerals

This is a start

You left out diet soda, bacon, and beer.

[spdirty]

This thread just really needs this.

http://lickmyspoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/the-bacon-explosion-nyt.jpg

[W*GS]

I replaced sugar with raw, unfiltered honey a few years ago, and now I couldn't go back. My pallet now appreciates the flavors in honey so much more that refined sugar just tastes like chemicals to me.

I used to drink my joe with half/half and sugar. Went cold turkey and now always drink it black. Much better that way!

[baja]

I used to drink my joe with half/half and sugar. Went cold turkey and now always drink it black. Much better that way!

If you want to make the best coffee ever get one of these;

French Press

http://www.cosmicscoffee.com/images/pictures/8-cup-Hugo-French-Press-Black.jpg

[JJJ]

If you want to make the best coffee ever get one of these;

French Press

http://www.cosmicscoffee.com/images/pictures/8-cup-Hugo-French-Press-Black.jpg

Fully agree. Black as Wags said. Delicious.

[Requiem]

I avoid processed foods-- and eat whole foods, whenever possible -- including raw vegetables.

Nothing wrong with salt BTW. Unless you suffer from high blood pressure. Salt is good.

Salt is extremely bad for me, since I have kidney disease. I'm supposed to limit my intake to about half of what normal people can take in sodium a day.

[baja]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HpzYITiY_4A" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

[IHaveALight]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HpzYITiY_4A" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

Where's the food?

[IHaveALight]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DbAbQ-wkc9k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jhns]

I have known this for 20 years. I still don't care.

[W*GS]

Pastrami is the most sensuous of the processed meats.

[Requiem]

I love coloring.

[Rohirrim]

Had the ancestor of homo sapiens not started eating meat a couple of million years ago, we'd all still be living in the trees with our primate cousins. http://fubini.swarthmore.edu/~ENVS2/astigli1/greatleapsforward.html

First came meat, then came fire. The rest is history.

[Rohirrim]

BTW, the poisoning of processed meats is a modern invention. For most of our history, people would keep a farm pig. In the Fall, they would butcher the pig and use everything but the oink (as the old saying goes). They made their own sausages and hung their own hams. This meat got them through the winter (along with root vegetables and what they could put up). In the Spring, they'd celebrate the change of seasons with fresh lamb. Then they switched over to what they could hunt, fish and catch for protein. In other words, they didn't put chemical **** in their foods and they didn't eat it every day of the year. They ate pretty much what was in season.

[IHaveALight]

Had the ancestor of homo sapiens not started eating meat a couple of million years ago, we'd all still be living in the trees with our primate cousins. http://fubini.swarthmore.edu/~ENVS2/astigli1/greatleapsforward.html

First came meat, then came fire. The rest is history.

This is a 16 year old hypothesis that has not been proven. And actually has lost it's weight.
http://paleovegan.blogspot.com/2011/11/its-curtains-for-expensive-tissue.html

There are many other theory's for brain evolution as well such as...

The prey theory and social growth theory. - Our intelligence, cooperation and many other features we have as modern humans developed from our attempts to out-smart the predator, says Sussman
http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/4582.aspx

The ‘Left in the Dark’ theory. - The ‘Left in the Dark’ theory offers persuasive new explanations for the rapid enlargement of the human brain, our hairlessness, the length of our childhood, why we walk on two legs and our aggressive nature – questions that have perplexed researchers
since Darwin. Strong evidence is also presented that shows for a crucial period of our
evolutionary history our distant human ancestors were primarily forest-dwelling fruiteaters,
not animal hunters, as is commonly supposed. Archaeological research, primate
nutrition and human anatomy all point to the same startling conclusion.
http://leftinthedark.org.uk/book

Red Queen's Hypothesis - The hypothesis is intended to explain two different phenomena: the advantage of sexual reproduction at the level of individuals, and the constant evolutionary arms race between competing species.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen's_Hypothesis


The Social Brain Hypothesis – Which states that brain size correlates with social behavior.
http://archives.evergreen.edu/webpages/curricular/2006-2007/languageofpolitics/files/languageofpolitics/Evol_Anthrop_6.pdf

The starch theory. - As soon as the human lineage split from the chimp’s about five million years ago and started to live in open woodland, its diet may have expanded to include tubers, corms and the other underground structures in which plants store starch. In support of this idea, Dr. Dominy, a paleoanthropologist, said that the teeth of early humans “are not well suited for eating meat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/10/science/10starch.html?ref=science

This link suggests that climate fluctuations played a role.
http://humanorigins.si.edu/human-characteristics/brains


And I suggest that the rapid growth of the human brain stopped 200,000 years ago due to detrimental changes in diet, such as relying more on meat and cooked foods.

[baja]

And I suggest that the rapid growth of the human brain stopped 200,000 years ago due to detrimental changes in diet, such as relying more on meat and cooked foods.

"You are what you eat" is truly a profound statement.

[baja]

And I suggest that the rapid growth of the human brain stopped 200,000 years ago due to detrimental changes in diet, such as relying more on meat and cooked foods.

Check out, "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Doctor Weston A. Price.

Very supportive of your theory.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=nutrition+and+physical+degeneration

[Rohirrim]

This is a 16 year old hypothesis that has not been proven. And actually has lost it's weight.
http://paleovegan.blogspot.com/2011/11/its-curtains-for-expensive-tissue.html

There are many other theory's for brain evolution as well such as...

The prey theory and social growth theory. - Our intelligence, cooperation and many other features we have as modern humans developed from our attempts to out-smart the predator, says Sussman
http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/4582.aspx

The ‘Left in the Dark’ theory. - The ‘Left in the Dark’ theory offers persuasive new explanations for the rapid enlargement of the human brain, our hairlessness, the length of our childhood, why we walk on two legs and our aggressive nature – questions that have perplexed researchers
since Darwin. Strong evidence is also presented that shows for a crucial period of our
evolutionary history our distant human ancestors were primarily forest-dwelling fruiteaters,
not animal hunters, as is commonly supposed. Archaeological research, primate
nutrition and human anatomy all point to the same startling conclusion.
http://leftinthedark.org.uk/book

Red Queen's Hypothesis - The hypothesis is intended to explain two different phenomena: the advantage of sexual reproduction at the level of individuals, and the constant evolutionary arms race between competing species.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen's_Hypothesis


The Social Brain Hypothesis – Which states that brain size correlates with social behavior.
http://archives.evergreen.edu/webpages/curricular/2006-2007/languageofpolitics/files/languageofpolitics/Evol_Anthrop_6.pdf

The starch theory. - As soon as the human lineage split from the chimp’s about five million years ago and started to live in open woodland, its diet may have expanded to include tubers, corms and the other underground structures in which plants store starch. In support of this idea, Dr. Dominy, a paleoanthropologist, said that the teeth of early humans “are not well suited for eating meat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/10/science/10starch.html?ref=science

This link suggests that climate fluctuations played a role.
http://humanorigins.si.edu/human-characteristics/brains


And I suggest that the rapid growth of the human brain stopped 200,000 years ago due to detrimental changes in diet, such as relying more on meat and cooked foods.

Or the females hips couldn't take any more. The theory above may never be "proven" but it fits the physical evidence, which is much stronger footing than cultural or social guesswork.

[Meck77]

Eat well, stay fit, enjoy a higher quality of life, live longer, transition into the next thing.

More lecturing yet you are sucking on the most sure fire way of killing yourself. CIGARS/CANCER.

[baja]

More lecturing yet you are sucking on the most sure fire way of killing yourself. CIGARS/CANCER.

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I SMOKE CIGARS?

[baja]

It's kinda sweet that you are following me around again Meck.

[sirhcyennek81]

Cooking any meat processes it.

Just sayin...


:Broncos:

[Meck77]

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I SMOKE CIGARS?

You delusional disorder/mind probably does not remember telling us. But please keep telling us how we should live a healthy life just like you. Best of luck in quitting though. It will most certainly kill you before processed meats or a vaccine.

[baja]

You delusional disorder/mind probably does not remember telling us. But please keep telling us how we should live a healthy life just like you. Best of luck in quitting though. It will most certainly kill you before processed meats or a vaccine.

Who's quitting, sometimes I smoke a pure organic Cuban cigar or 2 and other times I don't.

I love how you take a piece of information and spin your own little story with it and than post it as fact.

[The Lone Bolt]

Jeez next thing you know they'll be saying Soylent Green is bad for us!

http://noiseroad.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/soylent-green.jpg

[IHaveALight]

Or the females hips couldn't take any more. The theory above may never be "proven" but it fits the physical evidence, which is much stronger footing than cultural or social guesswork.

Many of the other theory's have physical evidence as well. And the first link I provided actually has physical evidence that refutes your accepted theory.

[alkemical]

Fully agree. Black as Wags said. Delicious.

Only way to drink coffee. I gave away my coffee maker after I got my press.

Do you ever make whole leaf teas in it?

[Rohirrim]

Many of the other theory's have physical evidence as well. And the first link I provided actually has physical evidence that refutes your accepted theory.

Disputing the ETH theory only addresses an explanation of one possible mechanism for the growth of our brains, not the fact of that growth. Plus, this paper is flooded with such biases as to be highly suspect. Calling those in the other camp "carnists?" Please. Even arguing that there is another "camp" is evidence enough of bias.

What does the actual science say? The ETH mechanism may not be a viable mechanism. The writers reach out and grab the low hanging fruit in the argument that "...they hinted that other high-quality foods, like sugary fruits, tubers, or oil-rich nuts and seeds, could also have done the job." Why? Because their agenda is to find justification in our evolution for a vegan life-style, just as the whackos on the other extreme (the paleo-diet) look for some excuse to eat nothing but meat. Of course, fruits and nuts are seasonal, while meat is not. But whatever.

Pre-humans were omnivores, just like us. The idea that any diet leads to a disease free life and perhaps even immortality is the equivalent of chasing unicorns. We will all die. We can't change that no matter if all we eat is aduki beans and miso. Believe me, I've tried it.

BTW, I once heard a new-age "healer" explain how wheat is a recent development and that humans are not adapted to the digestion of wheat, ergo we all suffer from wheat allergies and gluten breaks down our immune systems. I believed her. Why? Because it's the times we live in. Medical science has so many flaws, and is obviously part of some government or corporate conspiracy, that only alternative medicine, our ancient medicine, can hold the true answers and keep the true secrets. That just must be true.

Then, one day I was watching one of those beautiful David Attenborough nature films, Planet Earth, I think. It was about baboons that live on these high mesas near the Serengeti. They feed at the top of the plateus and if any danger comes they leap right off the sides of the cliffs and hang on the edge where lions can't get them. Really amazing. When it showed them eating they were all gathered in great fields of grass, sitting on their haunches, patiently picking the seeds of grain from the long stems, munching away. Not too hard to imagine our ancestors doing that for millions of years.

Veganism is more political than scientific.

[alkemical]

Yeah, but when they're talking about wheat, they aren't talking about you eating the grain off the stalk.

[Rohirrim]

Yeah, but when they're talking about wheat, they aren't talking about you eating the grain off the stalk.

As if there would be a difference between a whole seed or a ground seed.

[baja]

As if there would be a difference between a whole seed or a ground seed.

Ground seed goes rancid very quickly.

40% of emzines are lost 20 minutes after grinding grains.

[Rohirrim]

Ground seed goes rancid very quickly.

40% of emzines are lost 20 minutes after grinding grains.

If only we could overcome entropy. Alas, we can't.

[alkemical]

As if there would be a difference between a whole seed or a ground seed.

It's not even just the fact there is a difference, it's the rising use of glutens in mass produced foods. Not to mention, even now - more companies are using woodpulp as a cheaper version of gluten as filler.

[IHaveALight]

Disputing the ETH theory only addresses an explanation of one possible mechanism for the growth of our brains, not the fact of that growth. Plus, this paper is flooded with such biases as to be highly suspect. Calling those in the other camp "carnists?" Please. Even arguing that there is another "camp" is evidence enough of bias.

What does the actual science say? The ETH mechanism may not be a viable mechanism. The writers reach out and grab the low hanging fruit in the argument that "...they hinted that other high-quality foods, like sugary fruits, tubers, or oil-rich nuts and seeds, could also have done the job." Why? Because their agenda is to find justification in our evolution for a vegan life-style, just as the whackos on the other extreme (the paleo-diet) look for some excuse to eat nothing but meat. Of course, fruits and nuts are seasonal, while meat is not. But whatever.

Pre-humans were omnivores, just like us. The idea that any diet leads to a disease free life and perhaps even immortality is the equivalent of chasing unicorns. We will all die. We can't change that no matter if all we eat is aduki beans and miso. Believe me, I've tried it.

BTW, I once heard a new-age "healer" explain how wheat is a recent development and that humans are not adapted to the digestion of wheat, ergo we all suffer from wheat allergies and gluten breaks down our immune systems. I believed her. Why? Because it's the times we live in. Medical science has so many flaws, and is obviously part of some government or corporate conspiracy, that only alternative medicine, our ancient medicine, can hold the true answers and keep the true secrets. That just must be true.

Then, one day I was watching one of those beautiful David Attenborough nature films, Planet Earth, I think. It was about baboons that live on these high mesas near the Serengeti. They feed at the top of the plateus and if any danger comes they leap right off the sides of the cliffs and hang on the edge where lions can't get them. Really amazing. When it showed them eating they were all gathered in great fields of grass, sitting on their haunches, patiently picking the seeds of grain from the long stems, munching away. Not too hard to imagine our ancestors doing that for millions of years.

Veganism is more political than scientific.

The guy who wrote that is a vegan and is biased so see your point there. What's more important here really is not what he has to say about it but the actually study itself. Which says this... "Although this hypothesis is widely accepted, empirical support so far has been equivocal. Here we test it in a sample of 100 mammalian species, including 23 primates, by analysing brain size and organ mass data. We found that, controlling for fat-free body mass, brain size is not negatively correlated with the mass of the digestive tract or any other expensive organ, thus refuting the expensive-tissue hypothesis." I mainly didn't link that because you have to pay for the full article. But here it is. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v480/n7375/full/nature10629.html

Also I'm not saying that early man didn't eat meat. I'm just saying it wasn't and still isn't necessary. And I think most vegans will tell you that they don't need justification of a vegan life-style in evolution at all. But they will be very against ETH not because it says early man ate meat but because it says that meat was an improvement in diet.

[sirhcyennek81]

The guy who wrote that is a vegan and is biased so see your point there. What's more important here really is not what he has to say about it but the actually study itself. Which says this... "Although this hypothesis is widely accepted, empirical support so far has been equivocal. Here we test it in a sample of 100 mammalian species, including 23 primates, by analysing brain size and organ mass data. We found that, controlling for fat-free body mass, brain size is not negatively correlated with the mass of the digestive tract or any other expensive organ, thus refuting the expensive-tissue hypothesis." I mainly didn't link that because you have to pay for the full article. But here it is. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v480/n7375/full/nature10629.html

Also I'm not saying that early man didn't eat meat. I'm just saying it wasn't and still isn't necessary. And I think most vegans will tell you that they don't need justification of a vegan life-style in evolution at all. But they will be very against ETH not because it says early man ate meat but because it says that meat was an improvement in diet.


Calorie wise, meat beats vegetables, fruits and nuts. the amount of energy expended to gather vegetation to eat is not worth the effort. Hunt an animal, the justification is worth it.

Plus, early man probably thought that mammoth that got hit by lightning smelled pretty damn good.

:Broncos:

[alkemical]

have you ever archery huunted an elk? that takes a **** load of energy. growing veggies, just takes longer.

it also takes 2200 gal of water for every lb of red meat produced. That's a lot of energy.

[sirhcyennek81]

have you ever archery huunted an elk? that takes a **** load of energy. growing veggies, just takes longer.

it also takes 2200 gal of water for every lb of red meat produced. That's a lot of energy.


What you get in return from the Elk meat trumps anything you could get growing out of the ground. There is a reason Gorillas and bonobos eat all day. They have to because they are eating calorie poor foods.

If I knew I had to hunt once a week to eat for a week, or grow food for a month to eat for a week, Im going to hunt and maybe supplement what I catch with whatever I find lying around, rather than depend on the vegetation and hope to find a rabbit or grubs as supplements.

I am not an all meat guy or an all veggies guy. Both are required for a healthy human being, in my opinion. If all you want to eat is meat, God love you because you will have the digestive tract of a 90 year old. If all you eat is soy and veggies, God love you because you are gonna smell like ass and have dandruff on your forehead.

Me personally? I'll eat my steak and baked potatoe with a coke and a smile.

:Broncos:

[IHaveALight]

If all you eat is soy and veggies, God love you because you are gonna smell like ass and have dandruff on your forehead.

:Broncos:

I eat 95% fruit 5% greens and veggies (all raw) and drink 4 liters of purified water a day. The only time I get BO is when I eat non organic and even then it's barely noticeable at all, I have zero dandruff, my skin is as soft as a baby's butt (with no cosmetic products) and digest all my food in less then 24 hours quick and easily. In less then 7 months I completely healed weekly debilitating headaches, chronic stomach pains that had me on meds for years, acid reflux, heart burn, allergies, mind fog and chronic fatigue off the top of my head. Also made a drastic improvement in lifelong depression, which is still improving. And about 95% healed severe gingivitis while only brushing at night with a 100% plant based oil product (no floss either). Wake up every morning with no morning breath what so ever, so figure no need to brush again. I have more energy now then I did as a teenager too (I'm 32).

But I do probably have banana breath often and my kitchen does smell like ripening bananas, so you got me there.

And trust me, I absolutely loved meat and dairy too. My diet was basically, burgers and fries, steaks, prime rib, bbq, crab legs, Mexican, pizza and Italian. I still think about that stuff and I still miss it. I got a lot of pleasure and comfort from those foods, but it doesn't even come close to the pleasure of vibrant health.

[baja]

I eat 95% fruit 5% greens and veggies (all raw) and drink 4 liters of purified water a day. The only time I get BO is when I eat non organic and even then it's barely noticeable at all, I have zero dandruff, my skin is as soft as a baby's butt (with no cosmetic products) and digest all my food in less then 24 hours quick and easily. In less then 7 months I completely healed weekly debilitating headaches, chronic stomach pains that had me on meds for years, acid reflux, heart burn, allergies, mind fog and chronic fatigue off the top of my head. Also made a drastic improvement in lifelong depression, which is still improving. And about 95% healed severe gingivitis while only brushing at night with a 100% plant based oil product (no floss either). Wake up every morning with no morning breath what so ever, so figure no need to brush again. I have more energy now then I did as a teenager too (I'm 32).

But I do probably have banana breath often and my kitchen does smell like ripening bananas, so you got me there.

And trust me, I absolutely loved meat and dairy too. My diet was basically, burgers and fries, steaks, prime rib, bbq, crab legs, Mexican, pizza and Italian. I still think about that stuff and I still miss it. I got a lot of pleasure and comfort from those foods, but it doesn't even come close to the pleasure of vibrant health.

I'M more like 25% fruit, 20% dark leafy greens, 30% veggies, mostly raw. Some rice and quinoa, super foods (coconut, cacao, goji berries, spirilina, sea weed ETC). Teas made from chinese medicinal herbs. Medicinal mushrooms and a few sprouts tossed in with cooked food binges every so often. I also love to do my sun gazing.

When I'm on my game I feel better than I did when I was 20. Raw is the way to go there is no doubt about that.

[sirhcyennek81]

I eat 95% fruit 5% greens and veggies (all raw) and drink 4 liters of purified water a day. The only time I get BO is when I eat non organic and even then it's barely noticeable at all, I have zero dandruff, my skin is as soft as a baby's butt (with no cosmetic products) and digest all my food in less then 24 hours quick and easily. In less then 7 months I completely healed weekly debilitating headaches, chronic stomach pains that had me on meds for years, acid reflux, heart burn, allergies, mind fog and chronic fatigue off the top of my head. Also made a drastic improvement in lifelong depression, which is still improving. And about 95% healed severe gingivitis while only brushing at night with a 100% plant based oil product (no floss either). Wake up every morning with no morning breath what so ever, so figure no need to brush again. I have more energy now then I did as a teenager too (I'm 32).

But I do probably have banana breath often and my kitchen does smell like ripening bananas, so you got me there.

And trust me, I absolutely loved meat and dairy too. My diet was basically, burgers and fries, steaks, prime rib, bbq, crab legs, Mexican, pizza and Italian. I still think about that stuff and I still miss it. I got a lot of pleasure and comfort from those foods, but it doesn't even come close to the pleasure of vibrant health.


HIPPIE!

Don't get me wrong, if you have an all fruits/veggies diet, I'm glad it works for you. I know how my body works. I feel better when my diet is balanced between fruits/veggies/grain and meat. I've cut out white enriched flour, sodas, junk food. Anything with processed sugars, really. I drink tons of water and juices. I avoid the BBQ and pizza and tacos as much as possible. Eat more fish and chicken then pork or beef. I can't do milk...its gross. So I've found what works for me, and my health is good.

And I use colgate and floss even when I dont need to. I have these dreams where my teeth fall out. Its made me a tiny bit paranoid.

:Broncos:

[IHaveALight]

I'M more like 25% fruit, 20% dark leafy greens, 30% veggies, mostly raw. Some rice and quinoa, super foods (coconut, cacao, goji berries, spirilina, sea weed ETC). Teas made from chinese medicinal herbs. Medicinal mushrooms and a few sprouts tossed in with cooked food binges every so often. I also love to do my sun gazing.

When I'm on my game I feel better than I did when I was 20. Raw is the way to go there is no doubt about that.

I go by The 80/10/10 Diet. http://www.amazon.com/80-10-Diet/dp/1893831248/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330435942&sr=8-1

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UIgcTKkaDKk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Been curious about sun gazing for awhile. Do you do HRM? I read that once you build your sun gazing time up to 44 minutes then you're done. Does this mean you can't sun gaze any more after that? Or it's not needed anymore?

[kappys]

What you get in return from the Elk meat trumps anything you could get growing out of the ground. There is a reason Gorillas and bonobos eat all day. They have to because they are eating calorie poor foods.

If I knew I had to hunt once a week to eat for a week, or grow food for a month to eat for a week, Im going to hunt and maybe supplement what I catch with whatever I find lying around, rather than depend on the vegetation and hope to find a rabbit or grubs as supplements.

I am not an all meat guy or an all veggies guy. Both are required for a healthy human being, in my opinion. If all you want to eat is meat, God love you because you will have the digestive tract of a 90 year old. If all you eat is soy and veggies, God love you because you are gonna smell like ass and have dandruff on your forehead.

Me personally? I'll eat my steak and baked potatoe with a coke and a smile.

:Broncos:

Your logic is way off here - true an Elk is pound for pound more valuable than a pound of grain in terms of nutrition - but with the effort you would spend hunting the elk you could grow many pounds of grain - enough to both raise a few fenced in deer and have plenty of bread left-over. That's why man moved on from hunter-gatherer to farmer.

[baja]

Mechanically separated meat, a paste made by pulverizing animal carcasses, is used in hot dogs, burgers, lunch meat and Spam

Tuesday, February 28, 2012
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com (See all articles...)



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(NaturalNews) Have you ever glanced at the ingredients on a hot dog or a can of Spam Lite and wondered about an ingredient called "mechanically separated chicken" or "mechanically separated meat"? This type of meat is collected from animal carcasses after all the prime cuts of muscle have been removed.

In order to not waste the meat scraps still clinging to the bone, slaughterhouses remove the meat either by scraping, pressing or shaving the scraps off the bone, or by simply blasting it with pressurized air or water. The meat comes off in a reddish slurry, which is then mixed into low-grade meat products such as hot dogs and lunchmeat in order to bulk them up.

Other common end products for mechanically separated meat include hamburger, ground beef, canned meat and processed meat products such as Slim Jims. Mechanically separated meat is also known as mechanically recovered meat, mechanically reclaimed meat and mechanically deboned meat.

The Health Ranger recently posted a video containing the popular "Mechanically Separated Chicken" animation. Watch it here:
http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=64AF35AC1C82EA864DD2B4D1C8A416BA

A related video featuring celebrity chef Jamie Oliver demonstrates how mechanically separated chicken is made:
http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=75F52E185F953F121E6138A2D1BA8730

Source: 25 Amazing (and Weird) Facts about How Food is Made and Where it Comes From, authored by Mike Adams and David Guiterrez. This report reveals shocking but true things that will blow your mind about how food is actually made. Click here to download the full report (FREE) (PDF Adobe Acrobat, non-DRM), and you'll learn about weird food ingredients, food manufacturing processes and bizarre food sources. FREE report from NaturalNews.com.

Additional sources:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-09/st_whatsinside
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1482140.stm
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Factsheets/Hot_Dogs/index.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanically_separated_chicken


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035091_mechanically_separated_meat_chicken_beef.ht ml#ixzz1ngdQYlFI

[baja]

IHAVEALIGHT - Been curious about sun gazing for awhile. Do you do HRM? I read that once you build your sun gazing time up to 44 minutes then you're done. Does this mean you can't sun gaze any more after that? Or it's not needed anymore?

I meant HRM several years ago at a David Wolfe Longevity conference in LA. Actually he did not ring true to me.

The man who taught me to sun gaze is called sun yogi. I meant him in Napal and was there at the same place for a week. He sugggests working up to around 15 to 20 minutes a session and doing it at sunrise and sunset. Someone made him a website I'll see if I can find it. http://www.sunyoga.info/

Heres a excerpt from his website;

Basic Principles for Meditation and Sunyoga

Before starting to practise sunyoga, it is very important to follow certain principles in order to purify your mind, and to develop your power of concentration through regular practise of meditation. These principles can be explained through the first three steps of the eight steps of Yoga; Yama, Nyama and Asana.

Sunyogi explains Yama as the foundation of Yoga, the primary stage at which the beginner make's his/her life plan; Who am I? What do I want and why do I want it? What is the purpose of life? What is the relation between myself and my work? It is the stage at which one turns inward to question the purpose, to make a plan and start preparing to carry it out. It is the stage at which the 'sadhak' begins to surrender to a higher ideal, to listen to one's heart and decide what one wants.

Once a plan, or the seed of a plan, has been put together, the sadhak must stick to it; I will do it, I must do it, even if I die I will do it. The path of Yoga is never without challenges, so one must have confidence and persevere. The time it takes to achieve the goal depends on the sadhak's will-power.

The second step, Nyama, is the actual implementation of the plan. The two basic principles of Nyama are discipline and punctuality. At this stage, the sadhak knows what he wants, and why he wants it. The challenge now is to carry out the plan, and not to be distracted by challenges along the way and not to waste valuable time. The stronger the foundation, i.e. the plan made in the primary stage, yama, the easier it is to carry out the second step; Nyama.

The third basic step is Asana, the most important principle of which is to develop a correct posture and attitude. The most important aspect of Asana is to keep one's spine straight and relaxed. In this way, the divine force can move freely through the main energy channels that run from the top to the base of the spine. At this stage the sadhak can start his/her practise of meditation. There are three sitting postures that are most effective for meditation; padmasana, sidhyasana and gomukasana.

http://www.sunyoga.info/image/padmasana.jpg

I have never heard about the 44 minute thing.

[Rohirrim]

What you get in return from the Elk meat trumps anything you could get growing out of the ground. There is a reason Gorillas and bonobos eat all day. They have to because they are eating calorie poor foods.

If I knew I had to hunt once a week to eat for a week, or grow food for a month to eat for a week, Im going to hunt and maybe supplement what I catch with whatever I find lying around, rather than depend on the vegetation and hope to find a rabbit or grubs as supplements.
.

:Broncos:

Which would also be further support for the idea that brain development was enhanced significantly by meat eating. When homo habilis (or whoever) became a hunter, he found he had much more time on his hands. He would also discover that hunting tools made good defensive weapons. And once fire was mastered, what did he do while he cooked his meat? He sat around the fire sharing information with other hunters, learning from others and sharing his own observations. And at night, he could sit back and wonder at the stars.

[Rohirrim]

Your logic is way off here - true an Elk is pound for pound more valuable than a pound of grain in terms of nutrition - but with the effort you would spend hunting the elk you could grow many pounds of grain - enough to both raise a few fenced in deer and have plenty of bread left-over. That's why man moved on from hunter-gatherer to farmer.

Yep. At some point man stopped chasing the herds and became a herder.

[Play2win]

If I don't eat meat, I don't get enough real protein for this 240lb body to sustain. I tried it once in my 20's, and ran out of energy and felt dead everyday by 7pm. Mixed the proteins right and all. It just didn't work for me.

I think it depends on your own heritage. Eat what YOUR forefathers ate. I need meat. Though mostly chicken and fish. Love white albacore—great protein source. Don't eat red meat. I haven't for years.

[Play2win]

Also, would like to get my Jack Lalanne juicer back in operation. ;D

[jhns]

Your logic is way off here - true an Elk is pound for pound more valuable than a pound of grain in terms of nutrition - but with the effort you would spend hunting the elk you could grow many pounds of grain - enough to both raise a few fenced in deer and have plenty of bread left-over. That's why man moved on from hunter-gatherer to farmer.

No, man moved to farmer because of supply and demand. There are not enough wild animals for every individual in NY to go out hunting food all the time. Farming became necessary because we can produce food, rather than just depend on what is there. It definately wasn't easier when they were first starting to farm. Maybe now it is with the heavy machines to help.

My grandpa was raised on a farm in the middle of nowhere. He tells stories of having to go out hunting for dinner. They would leave and be back in an hour. That was on foot. The farm took hours of work every day to keep up. I'm not sure were you are getting your theory from.

[Rohirrim]

Recent theories about agriculture have changed as well. Archeologists found an immensely old (12,000 yrs) site of worship in Turkey and a new hypothesis came up that agriculture didn't come first and then create the city state. Perhaps the worship came first, and to support the site of worship agriculture was necessary, which led to the city state?
http://www.archaeology.org/0811/abstracts/turkey.html

[sirhcyennek81]

Recent theories about agriculture have changed as well. Archeologists found an immensely old (12,000 yrs) site of worship in Turkey and a new hypothesis came up that agriculture didn't come first and then create the city state. Perhaps the worship came first, and to support the site of worship agriculture was necessary, which led to the city state?
http://www.archaeology.org/0811/abstracts/turkey.html


The invention of bread is vastly underrated. What person looked at a wheat stalk and thought...you know, if I take the seeds from these, grind them to powder, add water and heat them, I wonder if I could eat it. OK, that was delicious. I need more of these seeds though. Hey, Ugg, help me put these in the ground.

:Broncos:

[Rohirrim]

The invention of bread is vastly underrated. What person looked at a wheat stalk and thought...you know, if I take the seeds from these, grind them to powder, add water and heat them, I wonder if I could eat it. OK, that was delicious. I need more of these seeds though. Hey, Ugg, help me put these in the ground.

:Broncos:

And to show how brilliant early man was, beer came before bread. ;D

[kappys]

No, man moved to farmer because of supply and demand. There are not enough wild animals for every individual in NY to go out hunting food all the time. Farming became necessary because we can produce food, rather than just depend on what is there. It definately wasn't easier when they were first starting to farm. Maybe now it is with the heavy machines to help.

My grandpa was raised on a farm in the middle of nowhere. He tells stories of having to go out hunting for dinner. They would leave and be back in an hour. That was on foot. The farm took hours of work every day to keep up. I'm not sure were you are getting your theory from.

The first farms didn't start in the middle of nowhere - they started on vast flood plains in rich agricultural regions. People tend to invent out of necessity - the knowledge to farm wasn't just hanging out unused for few millenia while people stalked great mammal herds.

Take New Zealand as an example where farming didn't take hold - humans arrive - have enormous population boom thanks to easy to hunt birds, mass starvation, then a sustainable small predominantly hunting society afterwards.

[jhns]

The first farms didn't start in the middle of nowhere - they started on vast flood plains in rich agricultural regions. People tend to invent out of necessity - the knowledge to farm wasn't just hanging out unused for few millenia while people stalked great mammal herds.

Take New Zealand as an example where farming didn't take hold - humans arrive - have enormous population boom thanks to easy to hunt birds, mass starvation, then a sustainable small predominantly hunting society afterwards.

What?

[IHaveALight]

Hmmm... Maybe she would have been better off with meat and cooked foods?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O6oJA_xhTa8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[sirhcyennek81]

The first farms didn't start in the middle of nowhere - they started on vast flood plains in rich agricultural regions. People tend to invent out of necessity - the knowledge to farm wasn't just hanging out unused for few millenia while people stalked great mammal herds.

Take New Zealand as an example where farming didn't take hold - humans arrive - have enormous population boom thanks to easy to hunt birds, mass starvation, then a sustainable small predominantly hunting society afterwards.


Stonehenge is in the middle of nowhere. You would assume if it were a site of ancient religious worship it would have been fairly close to farming communities. And we have no idea where farming really began. We assume just near rivers and flood plains because that is where the most evidence lies, but we cannot say for certain that some ancient civilizations developed away from a major water route because we have found little of them.

Our species is 200,000 years old. The oldest civilizations we know of are Chinese, Egyptian or Sumerian/Babylonian but those did not just suddenly develop in a vacuum.

:Broncos:

[IHaveALight]

If I don't eat meat, I don't get enough real protein for this 240lb body to sustain. I tried it once in my 20's, and ran out of energy and felt dead everyday by 7pm. Mixed the proteins right and all. It just didn't work for me.

I think it depends on your own heritage. Eat what YOUR forefathers ate. I need meat. Though mostly chicken and fish. Love white albacore—great protein source. Don't eat red meat. I haven't for years.

This is the main problem that people have on diets. They think it's all about what not to eat but in reality it's all about what to eat. So people eliminate certain things but then still eat junk and they get bad results then say I tried giving such and such up but it didn't work for me.

[Rohirrim]

Hmmm... Maybe she would have been better off with meat and cooked foods?



And yet most agree the longest lived people live on this diet:
http://www.energytimes.com/pages/features/0309/mediterranean.html

[IHaveALight]

And yet most agree the longest lived people live on this diet:
http://www.energytimes.com/pages/features/0309/mediterranean.html

The Mediterranean diet has been around for awhile and as such was easy to study. The raw vegan movement is in infancy and it's not a cultural thing that is easily noticeable. Give it some time, the raw vegan diet will blow this away.

But having said that it's no wonder to me why the Mediterranean diet is so much more successful than the standard American diet. For one they only eat meat once a month. And if you read your article it praises the consumption of carbs, olive oil, red wine and vegetables for the success. And while they eat eggs and dairy, I'm sure it's nowhere near on the level with America.

[baja]

Bill Gates, Monsanto, and eugenics: How one of the world's wealthiest men is actively promoting a corporate takeover of global agriculture

Wednesday, February 29, 2012 by: Ethan A. Huff, staff writer



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(NaturalNews) After it was exposed that the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the philanthropic brainchild of Microsoft founder Bill Gates, purchased 500,000 shares in Monsanto back in 2010 valued at more than $23 million, it became abundantly clear that this so-called benevolent charity is up to something other than eradicating disease and feeding the world's poor (http://www.guardian.co.uk). It turns out that the Gates family legacy has long been one of trying to dominate and control the world's systems, including in the areas of technology, medicine, and now agriculture.

The Gates Foundation, aka the tax-exempt Gates Family Trust, is currently in the process of spending billions of dollars in the name of humanitarianism to establish a global food monopoly dominated by genetically-modified (GM) crops and seeds. And based on the Gates family's history of involvement in world affairs, it appears that one of its main goals besides simply establishing corporate control of the world's food supply is to reduce the world's population by a significant amount in the process.

William H. Gates Sr., former head of eugenics group Planned Parenthood

Bill Gates' father, William H. Gates Sr., has long been involved with the eugenics group Planned Parenthood, a rebranded organization birthed out of the American Eugenics Society. In a 2003 interview with PBS' Bill Moyers, Bill Gates admitted that his father used to be the head of Planned Parenthood, which was founded on the concept that most human beings are just "reckless breeders" and "human weeds" in need of culling (http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_gates.html).

Gates also admitted during the interview that his family's involvement in reproductive issues throughout the years has been extensive, referencing his own prior adherence to the beliefs of eugenicist Thomas Robert Malthus, who believed that populations of the world need to be controlled through reproductive restrictions. Though Gates claims he now holds a different view, it appears as though his foundation's initiatives are just a modified Malthusian approach that much more discreetly reduces populations through vaccines and GMOs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus).

Gates Foundation has invested heavily in converting Asian, African agricultural systems to GMOs

William Gates Sr.'s association with Planned Parenthood and continued influence in the realm of "population and reproductive health" is significant because Gates Sr. is co-chair of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (http://www.gatesfoundation.org/leadership/Pages/william-gates-sr.aspx). This long-time eugenicist "guides the vision and strategic direction" of the Gates Foundation, which is currently heavily focused on forcing GMOs on Africa via its financing of the Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA).

The Gates Foundation has admittedly given at least $264.5 million in grant commitments to AGRA (www.gatesfoundation.org/about/Documents/BMGFFactSheet.pdf), and also reportedly hired Dr. Robert Horsch, a former Monsanto executive for 25 years who developed Roundup, to head up AGRA back in 2006. According to a report published in La Via Campesina back in 2010, 70 percent of AGRA's grantees in Kenya work directly with Monsanto, and nearly 80 percent of the Gates Foundation funding is devoted to biotechnology (http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_21606.cfm).

The same report explains that the Gates Foundation pledged $880 million in April 2010 to create the Global Agriculture and Food Security Program (GAFSP), which is a heavy promoter of GMOs. GAFSP, of course, was responsible for providing $35 million in "aid" to earthquake-shattered Haiti to be used for implementing GMO agricultural systems and technologies.

Back in 2003, the Gates Foundation invested $25 million in "GM (genetically modified) research to develop vitamin and protein-enriched seeds for the world's poor," a move that many international charities and farmers groups vehemently opposed (http://healthfreedoms.org). And in 2008, the Gates Foundation awarded $26.8 million to Cornell University to research GM wheat, which is the next major food crop in the crosshairs of Monsanto's GM food crop pipeline (http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_21606.cfm).

If you control agriculture, you control the populations of the world

The Gates Foundation's ties with Monsanto and corporate agriculture in general speak volumes about its real agenda, which is to create a monopolistic system of world control in every area of human life. Vaccines, pharmaceuticals, GMOs, reproductive control, weather manipulation, global warming -- these and many other points of entry are the means by which the Gates Foundation is making great strides to control the world by pretending to help improve and save it.

Rather than promote real food sovereignty and address the underlying political and economic issues that breed poverty, Gates and Co. has instead embraced the promotion of corporately-owned and controlled agriculture and medicine paradigms that will only further enslave the world's most impoverished. It is abundantly evident that GMOs have ravished already-impoverished people groups by destroying their native agricultural systems, as has been seen in India (http://www.naturalnews.com/030913_Monsanto_suicides.html).

Some may say Gates' endeavors are all about the money, while others may say they are about power and control. Perhaps it is a combination of both, where Gates is still in the business of promoting his own commercial investments, which includes buying shares in Monsanto while simultaneously investing in programs to promote Monsanto.

Whatever the case may be, there is simply no denying that Gates now has a direct interest in seeing Monsanto succeed in spreading GMOs around the world. And since Gates is openly facilitating Monsanto's growth into new markets through his "humanitarian" efforts, it is clear that the Gates family is in bed with Monsanto.

"Although Bill Gates might try to say that the Foundation is not linked to his business, all it proves is the opposite: most of their donations end up favoring the commercial investments of the tycoon, not really "donating" anything, but instead of paying taxes to state coffers, he invests his profits in where it is favorable to him economically, including propaganda from their supposed good intentions," wrote Silvia Ribeiro in the Mexican news source La Jornada back in 2010.

"On the contrary, their 'donations' finance projects as destructive as geoengineering or replacement of natural community medicines for high-tech patented medicines in the poorest areas of the world ... Gates is also engaged in trying to destroy rural farming worldwide, mainly through the 'Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa' (AGRA). It works as a Trojan horse to deprive poor African farmers of their traditional seeds, replacing them with the seeds of their companies first, finally by genetically modified (GM)."

Sources for this article include:

http://www.guardian.co.uk


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035105_Bill_Gates_Monsanto_eugenics.html#ixzz1nmCI J0oy

[alkemical]

Interesting stuff on Gates. I'll have to spend more time looking into his humanitarian* work.

[Rohirrim]

Bill Gates, Monsanto, and eugenics: How one of the world's wealthiest men is actively promoting a corporate takeover of global agriculture



"...eugenics group Planned Parenthood?"

Baja, come back from the edge. You're in danger of falling into the conspiracy abyss. ;D

[Rohirrim]

The Mediterranean diet has been around for awhile and as such was easy to study. The raw vegan movement is in infancy and it's not a cultural thing that is easily noticeable. Give it some time, the raw vegan diet will blow this away.

But having said that it's no wonder to me why the Mediterranean diet is so much more successful than the standard American diet. For one they only eat meat once a month. And if you read your article it praises the consumption of carbs, olive oil, red wine and vegetables for the success. And while they eat eggs and dairy, I'm sure it's nowhere near on the level with America.

What kind of life is that, chomping on raw veggies? I was a vegetarian for four years when I lived in an ashram. I ate no meat, fish or eggs. There were a couple of guys who went further than that. I called them the 'food trippers.' They seemed to subsist on mostly aduki beans. I remember this one guy who, every evening, had the exact same meal: A big bowl of chopped up, raw veggies upon which he squirted a small stream of miso and sprinkled with raw sesame seeds. He would sit there with ear muffs on (so nobody could disrupt his consciousness) while he munched away on his cold bowl of veggies. And believe me, he munched. It was like listening to a horse.

Anyway, this small cabal of food trippers did not emanate health. In fact, it was quite the opposite. The raw food muncher became almost translucent. I thought he might go transcendental at any moment and simply fade off into nirvana. Ten years later, I met a woman who knew him and she told me he had died of cancer. And so it goes...

[kappys]

Stonehenge is in the middle of nowhere. You would assume if it were a site of ancient religious worship it would have been fairly close to farming communities. And we have no idea where farming really began. We assume just near rivers and flood plains because that is where the most evidence lies, but we cannot say for certain that some ancient civilizations developed away from a major water route because we have found little of them.

Our species is 200,000 years old. The oldest civilizations we know of are Chinese, Egyptian or Sumerian/Babylonian but those did not just suddenly develop in a vacuum.

:Broncos:

Granted we don't know for certain - but the best evidence I am aware of points to the Nile Delta or Mesopotamian river systems as the site when agriculture was first really launched. Rice culture also developed around that time in China.

I would argue that societies largely developed because of the ability to grow food - and that early man found it superior to hunting/gathering in terms of production.

[Rohirrim]

Granted we don't know for certain - but the best evidence I am aware of points to the Nile Delta or Mesopotamian river systems as the site when agriculture was first really launched. Rice culture also developed around that time in China.

I would argue that societies largely developed because of the ability to grow food - and that early man found it superior to hunting/gathering in terms of production.

I think early man found it pretty easy to survive by living a nomadic life, following the herds and the ripening produce, much as the birds still move North and South, following the ripening grains and insect hatches. After the Holocene ice age ended food was plentiful. Something had to make him stop. Once he stopped, he had to come up with a way to make the plants and herds come to him - domestication. IMO, these guys are probably pretty close to the truth:
http://www.archaeology.org/0811/abstracts/turkey.html

[baja]

Interesting stuff on Gates. I'll have to spend more time looking into his humanitarian* work.

Guess who is the number one investor in Monsanto?

That's right Mr. Bill Gates.

[baja]

What is Monsanto objective behind the GMOs?

Population reduction through food supply.

[alkemical]

Guess who is the number one investor in Monsanto?

That's right Mr. Bill Gates.



What is Monsanto objective behind the GMOs?

Population reduction through food supply.



Is that Monsanto's goal, or is their goal to make as much $ as possible? or do those goals overlap?

[DenverBrit]

Guess who is the number one investor in Monsanto?

That's right Mr. Bill Gates.

Not even close, Baja.

For example. The largest shareholder is Vangard Group who own 21,693,682 shares which equals 4.05%. Gates owns a mere 500,000 shares. Small change compared to the main shareholders.

http://investors.morningstar.com/ownership/shareholders-major.html?t=MON&region=USA&culture=en-us

[baja]

Not even close, Baja.

For example. The largest shareholder is Vangard Group who own 21,693,682 shares which equals 4.05%. Gates owns a mere 500,000 shares. Small change compared to the main shareholders.

http://investors.morningstar.com/ownership/shareholders-major.html?t=MON&region=USA&culture=en-us

Maybe he is the number 1 individual investor. I heard he was #1 something in Monsanto group.

[DenverBrit]

Maybe he is the number 1 individual investor. I heard he was #1 something in Monsanto group.

I believe the shares were bought by his foundation.

The author of article you posted has a woody for Gates.
The list of his investments are unremarkable and the author seems irrationally bent on proving a conspiracy using data that doesn't remotely support his assertion.

I'd check up on the Chinese activities. ;)

[jhns]

Maybe he is the number 1 individual investor. I heard he was #1 something in Monsanto group.

Yeah, we know you don't have the facts. It is impossible to be such an idiot conspiracy theorist when you actually know the facts.

Why are you on the internet? You are just giving them ways to track you...

[baja]

Yeah, we know you don't have the facts. It is impossible to be such an idiot conspiracy theorist when you actually know the facts.

Why are you on the internet? You are just giving them ways to track you...

You got it backwards we are tracking you.

[alkemical]

You got it backwards we are tracking you.

I had to come to terms that I am Illuminati.

[baja]

I had to come to terms that I am Illuminati.

How did we get so lucky as to have jhns show up here. Did he break up with Cutler?

[alkemical]

How did we get so lucky as to have jhns show up here. Did he break up with Cutler?

I think he's trying to buy some pot, but doesn't know whom to ask.

[jhns]

You got it backwards we are tracking you.

I don't mind. You should avoid watching me when I'm home alone though...

So, why are you so scared?

[Rohirrim]

I don't mind. You should avoid watching me when I'm home alone though...

So, why are you so scared?

I'd be scared too, if I lived in Mexico. ;D

[baja]

I'd be scared too, if I lived in Mexico. ;D

No you wouldn't. You'd like the freedom.

Want to build a house go build a house

want to catch a fish go catch a fish

want to plant a garden go plant a garden

want to open a road side resturant open one.

want to walk down the street with a beer do it.

want to run a red light late at night when there is no traffic no eye in the sky will send you a ticket.

want to have a cow in your back yard bring her in.

want chickns in the yard no problem.

[jhns]

No you wouldn't. You'd like the freedom.

Want to build a house go build a house

want to catch a fish go catch a fish

want to plant a garden go plant a garden

want to open a road side resturant open one.

want to walk down the street with a beer do it.

want to run a red light late at night when there is no traffic no eye in the sky will send you a ticket.

want to have a cow in your back yard bring her in.

want chickns in the yard no problem.

I can do every single one of these things. I can do them without a drug cartel shooting at me.

I win.

[alkemical]

No you wouldn't. You'd like the freedom.

Want to build a house go build a house

want to catch a fish go catch a fish

want to plant a garden go plant a garden

want to open a road side resturant open one.

want to walk down the street with a beer do it.

want to run a red light late at night when there is no traffic no eye in the sky will send you a ticket.

want to have a cow in your back yard bring her in.

want chickns in the yard no problem.



Can I open a Ski Resort in Cabo?

[DenverBrit]

Can I open a Ski Resort in Cabo?

You betcha!

http://www.brownledge.org/assets/images/skiing-2.jpg

[baja]

I can do every single one of these things. I can do them without a drug cartel shooting at me.

I win.


You can build a house without a long list of permits? Where do you live.


You can have a cow in your back yard where do you live.

I'll bet you there are more gang members within 10 miles of your home than there is within a hundred miles of where I live.

[alkemical]

You betcha!

http://www.brownledge.org/assets/images/skiing-2.jpg

Well played....

LOL!

[baja]

Can I open a Ski Resort in Cabo?

People ski on the sand dunes so yes.

[jhns]

You can build a house without a long list of permits? Where do you live.


You can have a cow in your back yard where do you live.

I'll bet you there are more gang members within 10 miles of your home than there is within a hundred miles of where I live.

I live around a lot more cows than you. I would have no problems getting one. I also don't live anywhere near gang members. I also live in a country that doesn't continually have to warn outsiders that they may get their heads cut off if they visit.

I can build a house with permits. I don't live in a third world country. I have to watch for power lines, and gas lines. I have to respect those around me. I know, just terrible.

[baja]

I live around a lot more cows than you. I would have no problems getting one. I also don't live anywhere near gang members. I also live in a country that doesn't continually have to warn outsiders that they may get their heads cut off if they visit.

I can build a house with permits. I don't live in a third world country. I have to watch for power lines, and gas lines. I have to respect those around me. I know, just terrible.


You need an expensive permit to do that.

Here we do what Americans used to do, use common sense.

[jhns]

You need an expensive permit to do that.

Here we do what Americans used to do, use common sense.

Yeah, that is why Mexico has so much better living conditions. No wonder you guys need these fences to keep us out...

[alkemical]

You need an expensive permit to do that.

Here we do what Americans used to do, use common sense.

Do I need a permit to make fajitas?

[Rohirrim]

No you wouldn't. You'd like the freedom.

Want to build a house go build a house

want to catch a fish go catch a fish

want to plant a garden go plant a garden

want to open a road side resturant open one.

want to walk down the street with a beer do it.

want to run a red light late at night when there is no traffic no eye in the sky will send you a ticket.

want to have a cow in your back yard bring her in.

want chickns in the yard no problem.

I have no issues with reasonable permits. You ever notice that when we have a really bad earthquake in L.A. there are only a couple of people killed, but when you have one of the same magnitude in a place where there are no building codes hundreds die? Some codes are a good idea.

[alkemical]

I have no issues with reasonable permits. You ever notice that when we have a really bad earthquake in L.A. there are only a couple of people killed, but when you have one of the same magnitude in a place where there are no building codes hundreds die? Some codes are a good idea.


Up-Up-Down-Down-Left-Right-Left-Right B, A, Start.

[IHaveALight]

Up-Up-Down-Down-Left-Right-Left-Right B, A, Start.

Infinite lives for you my friend.

[IHaveALight]

http://www.jeanniejeannie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/22035_640.jpg




<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ci0hI_Zk-2I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


http://leftinthedark.org.uk/sites/default/files/Brief%20Synopsis.pdf

http://beyond-belief.org.uk/node/8

http://leftinthedark.org.uk/sites/default/files/Left%20in%20the%20Dark%20free%20edition.pdf

[Meck77]

No you wouldn't. You'd like the freedom.

Want to build a house go build a house

want to catch a fish go catch a fish

want to plant a garden go plant a garden

want to open a road side resturant open one.

want to walk down the street with a beer do it.

want to run a red light late at night when there is no traffic no eye in the sky will send you a ticket.

want to have a cow in your back yard bring her in.

want chickns in the yard no problem.

Baja try. Just try and step out of your narcissistic mind for a moment.

1) There is s difference of building a shack and building an energy efficient modern home that meets safety/design standards. There is a permit process for a reason.

2) Fishing. Come on man. America has some of the most diverse fishing in the world. Florida keys, rivers of Colorado, Wy, Montana, Alaska! Wow! Again we have requirements so the waters aren't over fished and ruined like many of the areas of Mexico. You can't deny that. I tried to release a sail fish down there years ago and the idiot boat guides started hacking it up against my will.

3) Garden-Uh there is nothing preventing anyone in America from planting a garden in their yard or containers if they don't have a yard.

4) Roadside restaurant. Again there is a process and standard that must be met in America. I'd put any Taco truck in AZ against any in Mexico and you'd find numerous sinks for washing hands, cleaner surfaces, and ability to keep meat/fish cold from bacteria.

5) Walking down a street with a beer. That is what Vegas is for.

6) Ability to run red lights. Wow that's special dude. Mine as well do it with a 12 pack in your gut. FREEDOM BABY!

7) Cow in a back yard. Borderline cruel and quite frankly not sustainable. It takes at least an acre of land to sustain a cow. Raising a cow in a back yard in Cabo. That's brilliant.

Denver has recently allowed a couple dwarf goats in the city per household. Makes sense and is sustainable. A family can feed the goat garden clippings, leaves, grass clippings, weeds and easily make it through the winter with limited hay.

8) Chickens. City after city in America is allowing them. Meh I raised chickens once. Love farm fresh but would rather barter for eggs and let someone else deal with the noise/smell/ and chicken shiat. See Key West. Damn town is infested with them.

Anyway it's a growing trend in America.



:USA: There is a reason the Mexican dream is to become American!

*edit* Here is something America has over Mexico. It's called the Denver Broncos. :bronxrox::Broncos::gobroncos:Elway::lombardi:

That right there is reason enough to live in this wonderful country especially Colorado!

[Rohirrim]

Up-Up-Down-Down-Left-Right-Left-Right B, A, Start.

??? Clarity? Maybe?

[mosca]

This may sound like an extraordinary statement to some, but at the deep subconscious levels of the mind, any person diagnosed with cancer has decided that life is too hard, too painful and too overwhelming, and that death is the preferable option to life.

At the conscious level of the mind, the person diagnosed with cancer is still wanting to live, but at the deeper subconscious level of the mind, the person is “feeling” that life is simply too hard and unbearable.

This creates a chain reaction process where the subconscious mind literally instructs the immune system to slow down and stop working altogether. This causes healthy somatids (tiny living organisms necessary for life that live in our blood) to pleomorphise or change into yeast-like fungus that creates cancer in the body over an 18-24 month period. See: The Cancer-Stress Link to see how this occurs within the body.

But how do we know this? How do we know that cancer is a subconscious death wish – a not wanting to live anymore, but rather, a wanting to die?

Below are three extraordinary channeled readings from Spirit, from the Universal Christ Mind or God, that explain exactly how cancer is a wanting to die. More importantly, these communications explain exactly how you can reverse this subconscious death wish and choose life again.

http://www.alternative-cancer-care.com/The_Cancer_Death_Wish.html
I don't know about this - I think that statement is definitely extraordinary. How can anyone make this kind of statement about what someone else's subconscious mind is doing? How do you know?

I recommend you read Ken Wilber's 'Grace and Grit' if you haven't. It's the true story of his wife Treya's battle with cancer and the many treatments they sought out during this struggle.

[baja]

Baja try. Just try and step out of your narcissistic mind for a moment.

1) There is s difference of building a shack and building an energy efficient modern home that meets safety/design standards. There is a permit process for a reason.

2) Fishing. Come on man. America has some of the most diverse fishing in the world. Florida keys, rivers of Colorado, Wy, Montana, Alaska! Wow! Again we have requirements so the waters aren't over fished and ruined like many of the areas of Mexico. You can't deny that. I tried to release a sail fish down there years ago and the idiot boat guides started hacking it up against my will.

3) Garden-Uh there is nothing preventing anyone in America from planting a garden in their yard or containers if they don't have a yard.

4) Roadside restaurant. Again there is a process and standard that must be met in America. I'd put any Taco truck in AZ against any in Mexico and you'd find numerous sinks for washing hands, cleaner surfaces, and ability to keep meat/fish cold from bacteria.

5) Walking down a street with a beer. That is what Vegas is for.

6) Ability to run red lights. Wow that's special dude. Mine as well do it with a 12 pack in your gut. FREEDOM BABY!

7) Cow in a back yard. Borderline cruel and quite frankly not sustainable. It takes at least an acre of land to sustain a cow. Raising a cow in a back yard in Cabo. That's brilliant.

Denver has recently allowed a couple dwarf goats in the city per household. Makes sense and is sustainable. A family can feed the goat garden clippings, leaves, grass clippings, weeds and easily make it through the winter with limited hay.

8) Chickens. City after city in America is allowing them. Meh I raised chickens once. Love farm fresh but would rather barter for eggs and let someone else deal with the noise/smell/ and chicken shiat. See Key West. Damn town is infested with them.

Anyway it's a growing trend in America.



:USA: There is a reason the Mexican dream is to become American!

*edit* Here is something America has over Mexico. It's called the Denver Broncos. :bronxrox::Broncos::gobroncos:Elway::lombardi:

That right there is reason enough to live in this wonderful country especially Colorado!

You should save your time Meck I seldom read your posts - I have come to realize you are stuck on the "My dick is bigger than your dick" thinking.

[jhns]

You should save your time Meck I seldom read your posts - I have come to realize you are stuck on the "My dick is bigger than your dick" thinking.

LOL

Says the guy that continually says Mexico is better than the US.

[baja]

LOL

Says the guy that continually says Mexico is better than the US.

You should brush up on your reading skills, I never once said that. I do attempt to correct misconceptions about Mexico however. Remember I have lived here for 25 years, I should know a little something about this country labeled a shiithole by some here. Course they likely have never been here either.

[Meck77]

I do attempt to correct misconceptions.

Oh you mean like not being able to garden or have chickens in America?

Baja we the people of this Bronco community may not all agree about the politics of this country but we live here for a reason and CHOOSE not to live in Mexico. What's so hard to understand about that.

Heck I know you aren't happy with Mexico. You've admitted it's dangerous and are looking to flea to Costa Rica next. Much better choice IMO. I generally spend a week or two out there every year. Much better, cleaner, and safer then Mexico. You and I both know that.

[alkemical]

Oh you mean like not being able to garden or have chickens in America?

Baja we the people of this Bronco community may not all agree about the politics of this country but we live here for a reason and CHOOSE not to live in Mexico. What's so hard to understand about that.

Heck I know you aren't happy with Mexico. You've admitted it's dangerous and are looking to flea to Costa Rica next. Much better choice IMO. I generally spend a week or two out there every year. Much better, cleaner, and safer then Mexico. You and I both know that.

To be fair - most people don't choose to live here either. They just don't move. Human nature is like that to a degree.

[baja]

Oh you mean like not being able to garden or have chickens in America?

Baja we the people of this Bronco community may not all agree about the politics of this country but we live here for a reason and CHOOSE not to live in Mexico. What's so hard to understand about that.

Heck I know you aren't happy with Mexico. You've admitted it's dangerous and are looking to flea to Costa Rica next. Much better choice IMO. I generally spend a week or two out there every year. Much better, cleaner, and safer then Mexico. You and I both know that.

Did you miss post 146?

[jhns]

You should brush up on your reading skills, I never once said that. I do attempt to correct misconceptions about Mexico however. Remember I have lived here for 25 years, I should know a little something about this country labeled a shiithole by some here. Course they likely have never been here either.

You continually try telling us that the US sucks and Mexico is the greatest. Now you claim you don't do this... In other words, you are a liar that has no spine.

[Meck77]

28 year study of 121,000 people. Meat shortens your life.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/12/health/red-meat-shorten-lifespan/index.html

[Rohirrim]

28 year study of 121,000 people. Meat shortens your life.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/12/health/red-meat-shorten-lifespan/index.html

I wonder what the study would show if you had a group that ate only free range, grass-fed beef and processed meats (sausages, bacon, etc.) with no nitrates or other additives?

[IHaveALight]

I wonder what the study would show if you had a group that ate only free range, grass-fed beef and processed meats (sausages, bacon, etc.) with no nitrates or other additives?

While all the chemicals, antibiotics, growth hormones and such are causing havoc on our health, no matter how clean meat is it will always increase health risks / death rates.

[baja]

While all the chemicals, antibiotics, growth hormones and such are causing havoc on our health, no matter how clean meat is it will always increase health risks / death rates.

As a long time vegan I have come to understand that some cultures do best on some meat. Eskimos for example do not do well on a meatless diet. What we are finding out is we are all different with different nutritional needs. There is no "one size fits all" when it comes to diet.

[IHaveALight]

As a long time vegan I have come to understand that some cultures do best on some meat. Eskimos for example do not do well on a meatless diet. What we are finding out is we are all different with different nutritional needs. There is no "one size fits all" when it comes to diet.

I don't buy it baja. I think the bigger problem is that we haven't quite discovered the one size fits all diet. Even if it was / is already in use. And that everyone reacts differently to poor diet depending on their genes. Maybe Eskimos could be a rare case because of their high meat diets and I haven't read any studies on this. But I'd be surprised if an Eskimo relocated to the tropics, got daily sunshine and ate a high fruit raw vegan diet and didn't do exceptionally well. I'm sure it would take time to adjust though, as with anyone.

All animal species on this planet have a species specific diet. And they instinctively know what their diet is, as do we. We've just buried those instincts with the intense flavors in our cooked foods. When was the last time you saw a live animal and started salivating as mountain lion would or thought man, I want to eat that right now?

Food?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/msbSys9Z27I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Food?
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lXKDu6cdXLI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Food?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tG7PgcZCH0M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Food?
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ArDyMvmy-7A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Food?
http://images.travelpod.com/tw_slides/ta00/a12/cde/fish-thrown-at-pike-place-market-pike-place-market-seattle-seattle.jpg

Food?
http://momgrind.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/barcelona-market-fruit-stand-1.jpg

Food?
https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSom4SM72lFsOnAljqqvlGvZqTSRGT1U Zk9F3NSGbpYB5R0zQ18Dg

Our instincts tell us all we need to know. We're just to detached of them by our impersonal relationship to where our food comes from and our sensory overload.

[baja]

Evolution does play a part is dietary needs.

Chimpanzees, our closest relative DNA wise pretty much follows the 80 10 10 diet you mentioned and I do think it is fine for most people but many long time raw fooders have had to add some cooked food to their diets especially in cold weather. Another issue agreed on almost universally is we need B12 supplements in todays polluted world. We do not eat enough fermented foods for our intestinal bacteria to make sufficant amounts.

The world has changed a great deal from the pristine conditions required for the 80 10 10 diet to nurish us properly.

[IHaveALight]

Evolution does play a part is dietary needs.

Chimpanzees, our closest relative DNA wise pretty much follows the 80 10 10 diet you mentioned and I do think it is fine for most people but many long time raw fooders have had to add some cooked food to their diets especially in cold weather. Another issue agreed on almost universally is we need B12 supplements in todays polluted world. We do not eat enough fermented foods for our intestinal bacteria to make sufficant amounts.

The world has changed a great deal from the pristine conditions required for the 80 10 10 diet to nurish us properly.

I agree with this. The soils are depleted, the world is polluted, B12 absorption is a problem for many (if not most) people despite diet, climate effects us, ripe fruit hard to get in the winter. This doesn't necessarily mean we don't have a universal proper diet. It just means that it's harder to find that diet and that it will most likely require supplementation. And just because someone is raw vegan, doesn't mean they're doing it right. There are a lot of debated things in raw foods about whats ideal and what doesn't or does work (which I'm sure you're well aware). When you look at most the long time leaders in the movement they mostly have their own unique way of doing it. Still a lot to learn. Chances are people who fail make mistakes, cave to cravings, cave to social desires, don't properly supplement, under eat, get exposed to bad advice or maybe just don't educate themselves enough to succeed.

[baja]

Have you ever looked into sun gazing?

[IHaveALight]

I've read about it. I actually checked out that sunyogi page you linked. It interests me more for spiritual nourishment than physical nourishment though. Not sure I like the idea of it decreasing appetite.

[alkemical]

Yeah, i don't think there's a one sized fits all diet. It really does depend on the "host".

[Arkie]

Hot Dogs Cause Butt Cancer

http://scallywagandvagabond.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/original9.jpg

The billboard is one of a series of ads being put up in major cities by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, or PCRM, urging people to stop eating hot dogs, which it says are a leading cause of colon and other cancers.

http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/imagesizer?file=alex-johnson7805BB37-F4A8-A92C-21D4-E0F0FCED3B5F.jpg&width=600

[baja]

And that is why I never put a hot dog in my butt.

[baja]

I've read about it. I actually checked out that sunyogi page you linked. It interests me more for spiritual nourishment than physical nourishment though. Not sure I like the idea of it decreasing appetite.

Literally everything we ingest is stored energy derived from the sun.

The premiss is we can either get energy to run our bodies via stored energy (plants & animals) or directly from the sun. It is not my goal either (at the moment) but I find the premiss intriguing. Imagine the freedom for human kind if we were able to be fully nourished just by allowing energy frequencies to enter our bodies via our retinas.

[IHaveALight]

Literally everything we ingest is stored energy derived from the sun.

The premiss is we can either get energy to run our bodies via stored energy (plants & animals) or directly from the sun. It is not my goal either (at the moment) but I find the premiss intriguing. Imagine the freedom for human kind if we were able to be fully nourished just by allowing energy frequencies to enter our bodies via our retinas.

Has sungazing ever decreased your appetite?

[baja]

Has sungazing ever decreased your appetite?

Hard to say but it seems like it, thing is i don't do it on a daily bases. I know for sure when I eat super foods (nutrient dense) it decreases my cravings to almost zero. Noni juice, coconut water and meat, cacao, goji berries etc.

[Meck77]

Ihavealight......

You can eat all the berries and gaze at the sun but if you aren't taking advantage of the hot yoga classes at http://www.corepoweryoga.com/classschedules/colorado.aspx?location=all#Wed you should check it out.

There are studios all over Denver. Go straight for the hot yoga classes. They will kick your ass and after a few months you will wonder how you ever lived before.

[DenverBrit]

Nice! ugh!~

Pink Slime Found In 70% Of Supermarket Ground Beef In ABC Investigation

The price of beef has risen dramatically in recent months and years. That's led many consumers to shift away from steaks and towards cheaper hamburgers and meatloaves when they've had a hankering for cow. But record highs mean that even ground beef is getting pricier. What's a supermarket, looking to keep the price of ground beef competitive, to do? Use the cheapest possible kind of ground beef: the much-reviled "pink slime."

According to a recent "ABC World News" report from Jim Avila, 70% of ground beef sold in supermarkets contains the ammonia-treated sludge, which is the the product of a method for salvaging meat scraps from otherwise unusable parts of a carcass.

Avila was tipped off to the startling figure by a whistleblower at the USDA -- who says he has quit his job out of disgust with the product.

The level of usage is consistent with a 2009 report on pink slime by the New York Times. The paper wrote that "a majority" of ground beef in America contained the substance, which is manufactured by a company called Beef Products, Inc.

Since then, fast food companies have discontinued their use of the product en masse. Pink slime is still in the mix of the ground beef used in school lunches, however.

If you want to avoid pink slime altogether, then, and don't want to eat at McDonald's, you may have to buy your own meat grinder. Or stop eating hamburgers.

Watch below for Diane Sawyer on Jim Avila's report:


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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/pink-slime-supermarket-ground-beef_n_1332429.html?ref=food