"Violent Rhetoric" Update...House Dem Compares Repubs to Nazis

[epicSocialism4tw]

"ABC News Jonathan Karl reports:

The newfound civility didn’t last long. Political rhetoric in Congress doesn’t get much nastier than the words of one House Democrat during the debate on repealing the health care law"

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/01/abc-news-jonathan-karl-reports-the-newfound-civility-didnt-last-long-political-rhetoric-in-congress-doesnt-get-much.html

[peacepipe]

desperation isn't your strong suit,but then again what is.

[epicSocialism4tw]

desperation isn't your strong suit,but then again what is.

http://www.themightyginge.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/LOL-WUT.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

House Dem Compares Repubs to Nazis

Good for him.

I wish more Democrats had the stones to tell the truth like this guy.

[epicSocialism4tw]

House Dem Compares Repubs to Nazis

Good for him.

I wish more Democrats had the stones to tell the truth like this guy.

Here comes LABF to protect his slave masters. Stockholm syndrome took him from reality long ago.

[Spider]

Here comes LABF to protect his slave masters. Stockholm syndrome took him from reality long ago.

LOL did Palin tell you to say that ?

[Rohirrim]

The drama llama sure is defensive about this violent rhetoric thing.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The drama llama sure is defensive about this violent rhetoric thing.

Rohirrim sure does like this violent rhetoric thing for use in his personal life.

[ant1999e]

These guys are pros at avoiding and deflecting the topic aren't they.

[epicSocialism4tw]

These guys are pros at avoiding and deflecting the topic aren't they.

They have gotten pretty good at it given the practice theyve put in.

[Rohirrim]

Actually, he's right. The Right lies repeatedly about issues until the topic becomes the lie, rather than the facts behind the issue. This is a tactic that Goebbels used daily. It's a tactic the Right has been using since Lee Atwater started it, and then Karl Rove perfected it. Instead of debating the issues, spread propaganda. Issue talking points and then the entire party, every member on every strata, repeats the talking points, word for word. Anybody who doesn't see that as the basic Right Wing modus operandi is deluded.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41176813/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

[DenverBrit]

Of course, DramaMcLiar could only find one side making such comparisons.

Accusing the other party of being like Nazi's has been a two way street for sometime.

Bush Compares Obama To Nazi Appeasers

"Some seem to believe we should negotiate with terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along," said Bush, in what White House aides privately acknowledged was a reference to calls by Obama and other Democrats for the U.S. president to sit down for talks with leaders like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

"We have heard this foolish delusion before," Bush said in remarks to the Israeli Knesset. "As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American Senator declared: 'Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is -- the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."

Limbaugh then proceeded to describe the ways Democrats are like Nazis -- a list that included their dedication to animal rights and their opposition to smoking and pollution.
Well, the Nazis were against big business -- they hated big business. And of course we all know that they were opposed to Jewish capitalism. They were insanely, irrationally against pollution. They were for two years mandatory voluntary service to Germany. They had a whole bunch of make-work projects to keep people working, one of which was the Autobahn. They were against cruelty and vivisection of animals, but in the radical sense of devaluing human life, they banned smoking. They were totally against that. They were for abortion and euthanasia of the undesirables, as we all know, and they were for cradle-to-grave nationalized healthcare.

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[alkemical]

This thread, completely illustrates the divide & conquer technique and how easily people are manipulated into playing "the game".

[JJJ]

Of course, DramaMcLiar could only find one side making such comparisons.

Accusing the other party of being like Nazi's has been a two way street for sometime.

Bush Compares Obama To Nazi Appeasers




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The only problem is the analogy Bush describes actually applies. Obama was appeasing Iran.

The good Mr. Cohen was just spouting pure nonsense in comparing the health care rhetoric of the GOP to nazi propaganda. Almost as ridiculous as Rohirrim's repeated fascism nonsensical outbursts. Not real surpriing there those two agree on this topic.

[Kid A]

The only problem is the analogy Bush describes actually applies. Obama was appeasing Iran.

The good Mr. Cohen was just spouting pure nonsense in comparing the health care rhetoric of the GOP to nazi propaganda. Almost as ridiculous as Rohirrim's repeated fascism nonsensical outbursts. Not real surpriing there those two agree on this topic.

You do see what you're doing, right? "When my side uses Nazi analogies it's okay because they're accurate." As though that was the problem.

We have centuries of political history to draw from, so when people go to the well of Nazi comparisons...it's kind of obvious they're trying to dramatize/scare. No matter who has a more legitimate argument, both sides look like asses the instant start equating the opposition to the 3rd Reich, even tangentially.

As DenverBrit pointed out, it's a two way street of hyperbole. And it's been around forever. And it's unlikely to end as long as core bases of partisans continue to lap it up and spew it back and forth, never addressing, you know, the actual issues at hand.

[DenverBrit]

The only problem is the analogy Bush describes actually applies. Obama was appeasing Iran.

The good Mr. Cohen was just spouting pure nonsense in comparing the health care rhetoric of the GOP to nazi propaganda. Almost as ridiculous as Rohirrim's repeated fascism nonsensical outbursts. Not real surpriing there those two agree on this topic.

The point is very simple. The rhetoric is going both ways and anyone pointing at only one side has an agenda that makes them dishonest.

Justifying Bush's comments while ignoring Gingrich and Limbaugh's Nazi comments just means you're ok with the Nazi comparison, as long as it fits the agenda one supports.

We can't be selective in our condemnation. Comparing any party to the Nazis is flat out wrong.

[Arkie]

http://nolabels.org/blog/no-labels-repudiates-nazi-analogy-house-health-care-debate/

WASHINGTON—While Americans are deeply divided on last night’s vote to repeal health care reform legislation, citizens should unite in condemning a toxic analogy used during the debate on the House floor, according to a new national movement launched last month to combat hyper-partisanship and promote political problem solving.

No Labels today is throwing a yellow flag, repudiating a statement made by Congressman Steve Cohen (D-TN) on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives during the heat of the debate to repeal the health care reform law.

On Tuesday night, Rep. Cohen used an incendiary Nazi analogy to criticize opponents of health care reform legislation passed in the 111th Congress, saying:

“They say it’s a government takeover of health care—a big lie just like Goebbels. You say it enough, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, and eventually, people believe it. Like ‘blood libel.’ That’s the same kind of thing. The Germans said enough about the Jews and the people believed it, and you had the Holocaust. You tell a lie over and over again. We heard on this floor, government takeover of health care.”

The health care reform debate understandably evokes a passionate response in many Americans. But using an inflammatory Nazi analogy on the House floor to characterize the policy statements of your opponents does nothing to advance the health care debate and does plenty to widen the political divide we must bridge to achieve progress on urgent national problems. At No Labels, our members have remarkably divergent views on what to do about America’s health care challenges, but we are united in our belief that this kind of language is part of the problem, not the solution. We urge Congressman Cohen, a dedicated public servant, to choose his words more carefully in the future.

http://nolabels.org/

[ant1999e]

This thread, completely illustrates the divide & conquer technique and how easily people are manipulated into playing "the game".

As always, you're right.

[alkemical]

As always, you're right.


I am not always right, nor do I always LIKE being right... ;)

Fear, hate and semantics are the commodities, and as long as people keep buying the bull****...it's going to be sold.

[JJJ]

You do see what you're doing, right? "When my side uses Nazi analogies it's okay because they're accurate." As though that was the problem.

We have centuries of political history to draw from, so when people go to the well of Nazi comparisons...it's kind of obvious they're trying to dramatize/scare. No matter who has a more legitimate argument, both sides look like asses the instant start equating the opposition to the 3rd Reich, even tangentially.

As DenverBrit pointed out, it's a two way street of hyperbole. And it's been around forever. And it's unlikely to end as long as core bases of partisans continue to lap it up and spew it back and forth, never addressing, you know, the actual issues at hand.

Actually no. First, Bush was comparing Obama to Chamberlain so there was no real Nazi analogy.

Second, when can you use a Nazi analogy and get away with it?

When genocide is being committed or the potential for genocide is very real. I think that accurately describes Iran and their nutjob of a leader and his threats to wipe Israel off the face the earth. It ain't hyperbole if its the truth.

[Kid A]

Actually no. First, Bush was comparing Obama to Chamberlain so there was no real Nazi analogy.

Second, when can you use a Nazi analogy and get away with it?

When genocide is being committed or the potential for genocide is very real. I think that accurately describes Iran and their nutjob of a leader and his threats to wipe Israel off the face the earth. It ain't hyperbole if its the truth.

Ah, fair enough. I missed that it was a Chamberlain analogy, with Iran being the Germany stand in. And I actually would agree that Nazi analogies aren't out of line in talking about totalitarian dicatorships/genocide.

I was more talking along the lines that DenverBrit and Arkie were, that comparing anything the US Democratic or Republican parties do to Nazi practices is absurd. But I think we might actually be in agreement that those analogies are best saved for contexts where they actually fit (i.e. totalitarian states).

[TonyR]

When genocide is being committed or the potential for genocide is very real. I think that accurately describes Iran and their nutjob of a leader and his threats to wipe Israel off the face the earth. It ain't hyperbole if its the truth.

So then a threat to do something is just as bad as it having actually been done to millions of people, right? Not to mention the fact that right now Iran is at considerably more risk of being wiped out by Israel than vice versa. But hey don't start letting inconvenient facts stop you now.

[orinjkrush]

both "parties" are nazis. their way or the highway.

"parties" are just superstitions about human behavior. neither can lay claim to "truth".

if you're convinced you're right, you're wrong

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Here comes LABF to protect his slave masters. Stockholm syndrome took him from reality long ago.

Like a good little RNC shill, here comes McAngrySpammerQueen to make sure we never have to ask the question "is there any truth to what that House Dem says?"

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Comparing any party to the Nazis is flat out wrong.

It depends on the kind of comparison.

I don't think anyone would argue that the GOP and the Nazi Party are/were identical in every respect, but it's certainly reasonable to note similarities in thinking and behavior.

[mhgaffney]

About the only good news of late is the fact that so many folks on the right are waking up and realizing that the leaders they believed and esteemed were liars, murderers, rapists, plunderers (and worse)

The awakening is coming from every side- - but the most hopeful aspect is that people on the right (Pat Buchanan, Paul Craig Roberts, David Stockman, even George Will) are now saying things that would have been impossible 10 years ago.

We might yet get our 20-year revolution. Something tells me it will be a bipartisan phenomenon..

[DenverBrit]

It depends on the kind of comparison.

I don't think anyone would argue that the GOP and the Nazi Party are/were identical in every respect, but it's certainly reasonable to note similarities in thinking and behavior.

The Nazis were responsible for 50-70 million deaths, unspeakable acts of barbarism and genocide. One cannot compare any party in the West to those thugs without looking at what they did and what they represented.
The Nazis represent modern history's lowest life forms and it is impossible to cherry pick one aspect of that gang of thugs without looking at them as a whole.

There have to be others with which one can compare the political parties actions, but not the Nazis.

[JJJ]

So then a threat to do something is just as bad as it having actually been done to millions of people, right? Not to mention the fact that right now Iran is at considerably more risk of being wiped out by Israel than vice versa. But hey don't start letting inconvenient facts stop you now.

:rofl::rofl: Only in your little dream land.

Leaders of nations threatening mass homicide, yes, is pretty much on the same level as doing it.

Where do you people come from and how did your view of the world become so astonishingly distorted?

[JJJ]

It depends on the kind of comparison.

I don't think anyone would argue that the GOP and the Nazi Party are/were identical in every respect, but it's certainly reasonable to note similarities in thinking and behavior.

You mean like Rush did with the Democrats in the quote above?

I personally think people are smart enough to determine when someone is using hyperbole and when they are not or if they are not being hyperbolic whether they are a nutjob or not so these kind of comparison's and this type of language for me is not a problem on either side. If the analogy doesn't fit the speaker simply losing credibility. If it does fit, well so be it.

Leaders making direct threats to other nations from an offensive posture like the Iranian leader however is flat out wrong and should be condemned on the highest level.

[JJJ]

The Nazis were responsible for 50-70 million deaths, unspeakable acts of barbarism and genocide. One cannot compare any party in the West to those thugs without looking at what they did and what they represented.
The Nazis represent modern history's lowest life forms and it is impossible to cherry pick one aspect of that gang of thugs without looking at them as a whole.

There have to be others with which one can compare the political parties actions, but not the Nazis.

A voice of reason.

However, I think usually when people use this analogy in a political setting they are usually referring to the pre-war Nazi period and the elements of mind & behaviorial control and propaganda that led to a much more dangerous environment later on. I think most clever people under that.

[baja]

The drama llama sure is defensive about this violent rhetoric thing.
LOL I'll bet we will hear that Rush is appalled too (if by chance someone tied us down and forced us to listen to him that is).

[baja]

I am not always right, nor do I always LIKE being right... ;)

Fear, hate and semantics are the commodities, and as long as people keep buying the bull****...it's going to be sold.

Actually in a subjective world everybody is always right. Course there is no "everybody" so it's all a dream anyway. ;D

[alkemical]

Actually in a subjective world everybody is always right. Course there is no "everybody" so it's all a dream anyway. ;D

I'm not right a lot. I'm as smart as I am dumb.

[TonyR]

Only in your little dream land.

Leaders of nations threatening mass homicide, yes, is pretty much on the same level as doing it.


How is that my "dream land"? Are you suggesting that Iran currently has the nuclear capabilities to destroy Israel? You might need to explain yourself here.

And no rational, intelligent person would agree that the threat of an action is as bad as the action itself. That's just, for lack of a better word, stupid.

[Mile High Shack]

can we all agree that both sides need to STFU with the Nazi stuff

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[Obushma]

This thread, completely illustrates the divide & conquer technique and how easily people are manipulated into playing "the game".

Look, a prime example, must be a Rove knuckle dragger.


When genocide is being committed or the potential for genocide is very real. I think that accurately describes Iran and their nut job of a leader and his threats to wipe Israel off the face the earth. It ain't hyperbole if its the truth.

I mean, does anyone still believe this ****? That the 4th biggest super power in the world (who has the 1st in their back pocket), is actually concerned that genocide will be committed against them by a non-nuclear country. Jesus Christ, talk about baby boomer syndrome, how deep is your head still implanted inside George W. Bush's rectum?

The leader never made threats to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, this is more of that Strauss/Kristol fear model that the neocons perfected. Ahmadinejad never said he wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the map, actually, I have his exact words, here they are:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time. I think that the Israeli government is a fabricated government and I have talked about the solution. The solution is democracy. We have said allow Palestinian people to participate in a free and fair referendum to express their views. What we are saying only serves the cause of durable peace. We want durable peace in that part of the world. A durable peace will only come about with once the views of the people are met"

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[DenverBrit]

can we all agree that both sides need to STFU with the Nazi stuff


Apparently not.

[Rohirrim]

Ahmadinejad saying the solution is democracy? :rofl:

Physician, heal thyself.

[DenverBrit]

A voice of reason.

However, I think usually when people use this analogy in a political setting they are usually referring to the pre-war Nazi period and the elements of mind & behaviorial control and propaganda that led to a much more dangerous environment later on. I think most clever people under that.

Both you and LABF make the same point. Which is interesting as you have opposing political views. And that's the irony.

We know we've hit rock bottom when both sides uses exactly the same smear tactics. Pointing at each other and declaring that the other side is acting like members of the Nazi party is quite the spectacle. Apparently, we have reached the end of the hyperbole road and have run out of political insults. Now the even left is being portrayed as Nazis, when we all know they are pinko commie bastards.

Years ago, sympathizers would point at the Autobahns, Volkswagens or the financial recovery and declare that the Nazis aren't as bad as they are portrayed. Right!! There was never a time in the Nazi party's history when they were not thugs, Anti-Semites and murderers.

The Dems and Repubs need to just stop the Nazi insults and get on with the job for which they were voted into office.

[Mile High Shack]

Both you and LABF make the same point. Which is interesting as you have opposing political views. And that's the irony.

We know we've hit rock bottom when both sides uses exactly the same smear tactics. Pointing at each other and declaring that the other side is acting like members of the Nazi party is quite the spectacle. Apparently, we have reached the end of the hyperbole road and have run out of political insults. Now the even left is being portrayed as Nazis, when we all know they are pinko commie bastards.

Years ago, sympathizers would point at the Autobahns, Volkswagens or the financial recovery and declare that the Nazis aren't as bad as they are portrayed. Right!! There was never a time in the Nazi party's history when they were not thugs, Anti-Semites and murderers.

The Dems and Repubs need to just stop the Nazi insults and get on with the job for which they were voted into office.

no kidding, it's getting old.....I'm so sick of both sides now, it makes me sick

[JJJ]

Both you and LABF make the same point. Which is interesting as you have opposing political views. And that's the irony.

We know we've hit rock bottom when both sides uses exactly the same smear tactics. Pointing at each other and declaring that the other side is acting like members of the Nazi party is quite the spectacle. Apparently, we have reached the end of the hyperbole road and have run out of political insults. Now the even left is being portrayed as Nazis, when we all know they are pinko commie bastards.

Years ago, sympathizers would point at the Autobahns, Volkswagens or the financial recovery and declare that the Nazis aren't as bad as they are portrayed. Right!! There was never a time in the Nazi party's history when they were not thugs, Anti-Semites and murderers.

The Dems and Repubs need to just stop the Nazi insults and get on with the job for which they were voted into office.

No, that is because we both believe in free speech and trying regulate it gets you nowhere.

Just pass judgement on the speaker and move on.

Cohen is the perfect example. Everyone on both sides think he is a dufus now.

[TonyR]

Look, a prime example, must be a Rove knuckle dragger.

I mean, does anyone still believe this ****? That the 4th biggest super power in the world (who has the 1st in their back pocket), is actually concerned that genocide will be committed against them by a non-nuclear country. Jesus Christ, talk about baby boomer syndrome, how deep is your head still implanted inside George W. Bush's rectum?

The leader never made threats to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, this is more of that Strauss/Kristol fear model that the neocons perfected. Ahmadinejad never said he wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the map...

Yup, exactly. Good post. Similar to what I said above, but better. It will be interesting to watch triple J try to squirm out of this one. He's completely bought in to the neocon propaganda.

[DenverBrit]

No, that is because we both believe in free speech and trying regulate it gets you nowhere.

Just pass judgement on the speaker and move on.

Cohen is the perfect example. Everyone on both sides think he is a dufus now.

You talk as if only one person is using the Nazi comparison.

Frankly, the Repubs and their rabid commentators are who one sees most often using the Nazi slur.

Regulating free speech is not at issue, violent or hate rhetoric from our politicians and some of their followers.......that's the problem.

[JJJ]

How is that my "dream land"? Are you suggesting that Iran currently has the nuclear capabilities to destroy Israel? You might need to explain yourself here.

And no rational, intelligent person would agree that the threat of an action is as bad as the action itself. That's just, for lack of a better word, stupid.

Stupid is waiting for it to happen after someone blatantly threatened it and then trying to uncover "why did this happen" after its done.

Anyone remember the 20/20 interview with Bin Laden about 3 years before 9/11?

[JJJ]

I mean, does anyone still believe this ****? That the 4th biggest super power in the world (who has the 1st in their back pocket), is actually concerned that genocide will be committed against them by a non-nuclear country. Jesus Christ, talk about baby boomer syndrome, how deep is your head still implanted inside George W. Bush's rectum?

The leader never made threats to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, this is more of that Strauss/Kristol fear model that the neocons perfected. Ahmadinejad never said he wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the map, actually, I have his exact words, here they are:



March 11, 2010

"See what has become of Israel. They [the West] gathered the most criminal people in the world and stationed them in our region with lies and fabricated scenarios. They waged wars, committed massive aggression… and made millions of people homeless…Today, it is clear that Israel is the most hated regime in the world… It is not useful for its masters [the West] anymore. They are in doubt now. They wonder whether to continue spending money on this regime or not…But whether they want it or not, with God's grace, this regime will be annihilated and Palestinians and other regional nations will be rid of its bad omen."

(In a speech in southern Iran).

February 25, 2010

"If the Zionist regime wants to repeat its past mistakes, this will constitute its demise and annihilation…With Allah's help the new Middle East will be a Middle East without Zionists and Imperialists."

(At a news conference in Damascus with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.)


October 10, 2009

"The Zionist regime wants to establish its base upon the ruins of the civilizations of the region...The uniform shout of the Iranian nation is forever 'Death to Israel.'..."

(As quoted by Fars News Agency)


December 12, 2006

"Thanks to people's wishes and God's will the trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is downwards and this is what God has promised and what all nations want…Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out"

(Comments to Iran's Holocaust Conference)


There are plenty more here. http://www.adl.org/main_International_Affairs/ahmadinejad_words.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading _6

Amateur.

[Obushma]

Amateur.

ADL :rofl:

Like I said before, anyone who believes the 4th largest super power in the world is seriously concerned for their safety from Iran, is smoking rocks, or a neocon/Zionist shill.

The man has nothing against Judaism, just against the atheist Zionists who want nothing more then full control of the Middle East.

[JJJ]

ADL :rofl:

Like I said before, anyone who believes the 4th largest super power in the world is seriously concerned for their safety from Iran, is smoking rocks, or a neocon/Zionist shill.

The man has nothing against Judaism, just against the atheist Zionists who want nothing more then full control of the Middle East.

The country with the largest military in the world may come as surprising. Most people would think it's the United States, but it is actually Iran. The Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran has 12,285,000 total troops with also the largest paramilitary in the world. Another surprise may be that Iran only spends about $6 billion a year on its military. When Iranian men turn 18, they must serve 16 months of obligatory military service. Maybe the reasons behind the eroded relationship between Iran and the United States seem clearer; Iran has the largest military on the planet and is being accused by the United States of stockpiling nuclear weapons.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1825655/the_largest_militaries_in_the_world_pg2.html?cat=7 5

Amateur

[Phantom]

:rofl::rofl: Only in your little dream land.

Leaders of nations threatening mass homicide, yes, is pretty much on the same level as doing it.

Where do you people come from and how did your view of the world become so astonishingly distorted?

:rofl:
I feel like I should pay for this amusement ride.

[Phantom]

How is that my "dream land"? Are you suggesting that Iran currently has the nuclear capabilities to destroy Israel? You might need to explain yourself here.

And no rational, intelligent person would agree that the threat of an action is as bad as the action itself. That's just, for lack of a better word, stupid.

The threat has happened, numerous times, the ACT has not. So ... yeah ... what?!?!?

[Obushma]

The country with the largest military in the world may come as surprising. Most people would think it's the United States, but it is actually Iran. The Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran has 12,285,000 total troops with also the largest paramilitary in the world. Another surprise may be that Iran only spends about $6 billion a year on its military. When Iranian men turn 18, they must serve 16 months of obligatory military service. Maybe the reasons behind the eroded relationship between Iran and the United States seem clearer; Iran has the largest military on the planet and is being accused by the United States of stockpiling nuclear weapons.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1825655/the_largest_militaries_in_the_world_pg2.html?cat=7 5

Amateur

Largest standing army is actually Vietnam, but we're not talking about standing armies, we are talking about Super Powers.

Amateur

[bowtown]

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and here's Beck chiming in, discussing his distaste for the GOP being compared to Nazis by... that's right... comparing the Dems to Nazis. Amazing.

[TonyR]

The country with the largest military in the world may come as surprising. Most people would think it's the United States, but it is actually Iran.

Even if this is true it has nothing to do with the discussion. I can tell you're a little dense but you are at least aware that a nuclear weapon is a teensy bit more powerful than a "standing army", right?

[bowtown]

The country with the largest military in the world may come as surprising. Most people would think it's the United States, but it is actually Iran. The Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran has 12,285,000 total troops with also the largest paramilitary in the world. Another surprise may be that Iran only spends about $6 billion a year on its military. When Iranian men turn 18, they must serve 16 months of obligatory military service. Maybe the reasons behind the eroded relationship between Iran and the United States seem clearer; Iran has the largest military on the planet and is being accused by the United States of stockpiling nuclear weapons.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1825655/the_largest_militaries_in_the_world_pg2.html?cat=7 5

Amateur

I would LOVE to know where this article is getting its statistics, especailly since I can't find a single thing that even comes close to supporting it.

[Fedaykin]

I would LOVE to know where this article is getting its statistics, especailly since I can't find a single thing that even comes close to supporting it.

Even if true, despite finding no other source to support it, it's pointless to have that many troops when you don't have the equipment to support them.

The only thing they have in quantity is APCs and tanks and the bulk of those are museum pieces from pre-revolution times. They'd be nothing more than fodder to the fleets of Abrams, A-10s, Apaches and and the various other anti ground vehicles and aircraft that the U.S. built up to counter the Russian tank armadas.

U.S. military strategy is firmly of the philosophy of "quality over quantity" (yet still having one of the largest standing armies in the world) and has been for a long time.

[Requiem]

Iran?

LOL.

[JJJ]

Even if this is true it has nothing to do with the discussion. I can tell you're a little dense but you are at least aware that a nuclear weapon is a teensy bit more powerful than a "standing army", right?

Of course. But to dismiss the threat of Iran to a country the size of a dustspeck is also completely ridiculous. To say Israel is more of a threat to Iran than the other way around is simply ignorning the equation that potential destruction is capability multiplied by probability.

You cannot ignore the intent and motivation of the those holding the weapons. Iran is 100x more likely to do some very rash and illogical than Israel is. The probability of Israel pulling out the ultimate weapon on Iran is infinitesimal.

And lets remember Iraq while being bombed into destruction and when their troops couldn't stick their heads out of their holes without getting it blown off was still able to get 42 missles to land in Israel. At the time Iraq was the 4th largest army in the world by troop strength and much farther down the line in sophistication of weaponary.

I think Iran is heading towards having a little bit more capability than Iraq with slightly more sophisticated weapons than Scud missles. Don't you agree?

[JJJ]

Even if true, despite finding no other source to support it, it's pointless to have that many troops when you don't have the equipment to support them.

The only thing they have in quantity is APCs and tanks and the bulk of those are museum pieces from pre-revolution times. They'd be nothing more than fodder to the fleets of Abrams, A-10s, Apaches and and the various other anti ground vehicles and aircraft that the U.S. built up to counter the Russian tank armadas.

U.S. military strategy is firmly of the philosophy of "quality over quantity" (yet still having one of the largest standing armies in the world) and has been for a long time.

Iran is testing and deploying longer range and more sophisticated and powerful missiles every year. We think they are secretly developing nuclear weapon capability.

So I ask you what should one conclude is Iran's philiosophy based on these observations? Do you see them heading in the quantity or the quality direction?



Iran tests missile in display before nuclear talks
January 19, 2011
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110119/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_missile_test

Iran test-fires long-range missiles
September 28, 2009
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-09-28/world/iran.missile.tests_1_shahab-3-test-fires-enrichment?_s=PM:WORLD

Shahab-3B
The Shahab-3B differs from the basic production variant. It has improvements to its guidance system and warhead, a few small changes on the missile body, and a new re-entry vehicle whose terminal guidance system and rocket-nozzle steering method are completely different from the Shahab-3A's spin-stabilized re-entry vehicle.

The new re-entry vehicle uses a triconic aeroshell geometry (or 'baby bottle' design) which improves the overall lift to drag ratio for the re-entry vehicle. This allows greater range maneuverability which can result in better precision. The triconic design also reduces the overall size of the warhead from an estimated 1 metric ton (2,200 lb) to 700 kg (1,500 lb).

The rocket-nozzle control system allows the missile to change its trajectory several times during re-entry and even terminal phase, effectively preventing pre-calculated intercept points of radar systems - which is a method nearly all ABM systems use these days. As a high-speed ballistic missile and pre-mission fueling capability, the Shahab-3 has an extremely short launch/impact time ratio. This means that the INS/gyroscope guidance would also remain relatively accurate until impact (important, given the fact that the gyroscopes tend to become more inaccurate with longer flights). The CEP is estimated to be at 30–50 metres (98–160 ft) or less.[7] However, the accuracy of the missile is largely speculative and cannot be confidently predicted for wartime situations.[8]

These improvements would greatly increase the Shahab-3B's survivability against ABM systems such as Israel's Arrow 2 missile as well as being used for precision attacks against high value targets such as command, control and communications centres.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahab-3

[Spider]

The country with the largest military in the world may come as surprising. Most people would think it's the United States, but it is actually Iran. The Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran has 12,285,000 total troops with also the largest paramilitary in the world. Another surprise may be that Iran only spends about $6 billion a year on its military. When Iranian men turn 18, they must serve 16 months of obligatory military service. Maybe the reasons behind the eroded relationship between Iran and the United States seem clearer; Iran has the largest military on the planet and is being accused by the United States of stockpiling nuclear weapons.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1825655/the_largest_militaries_in_the_world_pg2.html?cat=7 5

Amateur
LOL I wonder if the Improv is taking new acts ? .......

[elsid13]

The country with the largest military in the world may come as surprising. Most people would think it's the United States, but it is actually Iran. The Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran has 12,285,000 total troops with also the largest paramilitary in the world. Another surprise may be that Iran only spends about $6 billion a year on its military. When Iranian men turn 18, they must serve 16 months of obligatory military service. Maybe the reasons behind the eroded relationship between Iran and the United States seem clearer; Iran has the largest military on the planet and is being accused by the United States of stockpiling nuclear weapons.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1825655/the_largest_militaries_in_the_world_pg2.html?cat=7 5

Amateur

To tell the truth both you and ThyNatural are amateur on this. Number of troops rarely equate effective force projection. The keys to modern combat in conventional sense is defined by 1). getting inside the opponent's OODA loop 2) experience of the forces gained by actually combat and training 3)forward logistics capability 4) technological advantage (which acts as force multiplier).

No country in the world expect the US is able to excel in all those areas. They might have temporary advantage is short term but it won't last as the US Combat Commands are to adjust and take out the enemies C4 abilities.

[alkemical]

With the 'Left' & 'Right' calling each other 'Nazi', I'm inclined to believe that Germany lost the war and the Nazi's won.

Perhaps there's more truth that isn't being self realized, and it's easier to see it when you use someone else as a mirror.

[baja]

What is a Nazi exactly?

[TonyR]

To tell the truth both you and ThyNatural are amateur on this.

Maybe, but going back to the original argument ThyN is mostly correct and JJJ is mostly wrong. A nuclear Israel, will full backing of the U.S., is a much larger "threat" to Iran than a non-nuclear Iran is to Israel. The neocon right successfully makes Iran out to be far more dangerous than it currently is.

[Rohirrim]

What is a Nazi exactly?

Nationalist socialists who killed socialists and allied themselves with big business and militarists. I know. It doesn't make sense. But lots of organizations choose names that have nothing to do with who they really are. Take the People's Republic. Lots of tyrannical regimes like to use that one. Or "fair and balanced." :)

[Obushma]

[QUOTE]To tell the truth both you and ThyNatural are amateur on this.
Please elsid, show me where I was wrong.

I was talking about Super Powers and how it's laughable that people actually still believe that Iran poses any threat to the 4th largest Super Power, Israel. JJJ started the spin on standing armies just like good Rove bots do.

I said Vietnam had the largest standing Army, JJJ said Iran...He was wrong, I was right.

[Rohirrim]

China has the largest standing army on the planet.

[Obushma]

China has the largest standing army on the planet.

Wrong, China has like 5,000,000 standing personal. Vietnam has almost 13,000,000, one of every eight people in Vietnam is in the military.

[baja]

What about N. Korea?

[Obushma]

What about N. Korea?

I believe N Korea is in the 11,000,000 range.

[baja]

here is a chart;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_troops

[Obushma]

here is a chart;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_troops

Thats not right for Vietnam, trust me, i've already looked at it. Thats only taking into account the VPA and it's not even half right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_People's_Army

You still have the Vietnam Millita which Vietnam views as a part of their Army.

[baja]

Thats not right for Vietnam, trust me, i've already looked at it. Thats only taking into account the VPA and it's not even half right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_People's_Army

You still have the Vietnam Millita which Vietnam views as a part of their Army.

Israel views every citizen as part of their army.

[Obushma]

Israel views every citizen as part of their army.

Ok...which just furthers my point that Iran posses absolutely NO threat to Israel, 0, zilch, notta.

W*gs, JJJ, neither of them are Broncos fans, yet they both frequent this board. Any time Israel is brought up, they both are instantly in the thread, posting disinformation. In fact, JJJ didn't start posting here untill he was brought in to argue with Gaffney. We all know W*gs's whole M.O., we've seen him flip-flop political isles over the years, always supporting the status quo, and quick to attack a Gaffney post, like a Zionist on an Orthodox Rabbi.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YBNMDjj5LKc" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

Zionists, loving fellow Orthodox Jews
<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SeNB0v8SXUA" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

People on this board don't have any idea what the **** is going on over there.
<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/p2mTgq-jw8M" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

These guys are a joke, completely full of ****. I'll send them back to their handlers with a slap on the wrist.

[JJJ]

Maybe, but going back to the original argument ThyN is mostly correct and JJJ is mostly wrong. A nuclear Israel, will full backing of the U.S., is a much larger "threat" to Iran than a non-nuclear Iran is to Israel. The neocon right successfully makes Iran out to be far more dangerous than it currently is.

Posts 56 and 57 explain this for you.

[elsid13]

Maybe, but going back to the original argument ThyN is mostly correct and JJJ is mostly wrong. A nuclear Israel, will full backing of the U.S., is a much larger "threat" to Iran than a non-nuclear Iran is to Israel. The neocon right successfully makes Iran out to be far more dangerous than it currently is.

Because Iran can not compete against the US or its allies in conventional sense it has turned to indirect approach to achieve it aim of being the dominate regional power. That indirect approach is done through the funding of anti-US militia group in Iraq and full logistics and fiscal support of Hezbollah. Because of logistic support provide to Hezbollah, and other groups is an active "threat" to US and its allies in the region. There is a reason that Arab countries in region are pushing for US to do something with Iran, as seen in Wikileaks cables.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The Nazis were responsible for 50-70 million deaths, unspeakable acts of barbarism and genocide. One cannot compare any party in the West to those thugs without looking at what they did and what they represented.


Granted, the repigs (and some crooked Dems like LBJ) can't quite match the Nazis in the body count department, but a fascist is still a fascist whether he's responsible for 70 million deaths or 7 deaths.

We're talking about what qualitatively makes someone a fascist, a war criminal, etc.

One fascist/war criminal (e.g., G.W. Bush) doesn't cease to be a fascist and a war criminal simply because we can point to some other fascist and war criminal whose crimes were more egregious.

As the German psychoanalyst Alice Miller put it:

"It is our task to recognize that the black miracle of Nazism was only the German version, superbly planned and superbly bungled, of a universal contemporary potential. The trend persists; Hitler’s ghost is counting on it."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"Violent Rhetoric" Update...House Dem Compares Repubs to Nazis

There goes AngrySpammer throwing stones from his glass house again...

Rabbis vs. Glenn Beck in Wall Street Journal Ad

Nevermind the fact that Glenn Beck is bullying a 78-year-old professor (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/01/glenn_beck_camp.php), inciting death threats against her. That offense doesn't even make the newspaper today as Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/here-is-the-ad-running-in-todays-wsj-demanding-rupert-murdoch-santion-glenn-beck-2011-1) points us to a full-page Wall Street Journal ad demanding Fox News and Roger Ailes "sanction" Beck. It comes via the Jewish Funds For Justice, "including the heads of the Reform, Conservative and Reconstructionist movements as well as prominent Orthodox rabbis."

The letter cites Beck's "literally hundreds of on-air references to the Holocaust and Nazis," which the host uses to bring down people he doesn't like. It's something like Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) on TV, every day. And the rabbis will no longer stand for it:

It is not appropriate to call executives of another news agency "Nazis." And it is not appropriate to make literally hundreds of on-air references to the Holocaust and Nazis when characterizing people with whom you disagree.

It is because this issue has a profound impact on each of us, our families and our communities that we are calling on Fox News to meet the standard it has set for itself: "to exercise the ultimate sensitivity when referring to the Holocaust."


We respectfully request that Glenn Beck be sanctioned by Fox News for his completely unacceptable attacks on a survivor of the Holocaust and that Roger Ailes apologize for his dismissive remarks about rabbis' sensitivity to how the Holocaust is used on the air.
For his part, Ailes said the only people upset were "left-wing rabbis who basically don't think that anybody can ever use the word 'Holocaust' on the air." None of these rabbis should be holding their breath. See the whole ad below, via BI (http://www.businessinsider.com/here-is-the-ad-running-in-todays-wsj-demanding-rupert-murdoch-santion-glenn-beck-2011-1).
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