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DBruleU
01-19-2011, 11:29 AM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iOM8K2HklZK17c0mbflBO7Th7Pzg?docId=97816a13b 1b443f48dade38143b90132

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A doctor who gave abortions to minorities, immigrants and poor women in a "house of horrors" clinic was charged with eight counts of murder in the deaths of a patient and seven babies who were born alive and then killed with scissors, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 69, made millions of dollars over 30 years, performing as many illegal, late-term abortions as he could, prosecutors said. State regulators ignored complaints about him and failed to inspect his clinic since 1993, but no charges were warranted against them given time limits and existing law, District Attorney Seth Williams said. Nine of Gosnell's employees also were charged.

Gosnell "induced labor, forced the live birth of viable babies in the sixth, seventh, eighth month of pregnancy and then killed those babies by cutting into the back of the neck with scissors and severing their spinal cord," Williams said.

Patients were subjected to squalid and barbaric conditions at Gosnell's Women's Medical Society, where Gosnell performed dozens of abortions a day, prosecutors said. He mostly worked overnight hours after his untrained staff administered drugs to induce labor during the day, they said.

Early last year, authorities went to investigate drug-related complaints at the clinic and stumbled on what Williams called a "house of horrors."

Bags and bottles holding aborted fetuses "were scattered throughout the building," Williams said. "There were jars, lining shelves, with severed feet that he kept for no medical purpose."

The clinic was shut down and Gosnell's medical license was suspended after the raid.

Gosnell and four workers were charged with murder, while five others were charged with controlled drug violations and other crimes. None of the employees had any medical training, and one, a high school student, performed intravenous anesthesia with potentially lethal narcotics, Williams said.

All 10 defendants were taken into custody, authorities said.

Two listed numbers for Gosnell in Philadelphia have been disconnected. Defense lawyer William J. Brennan, who represented Gosnell during the investigation, noted that the doctor served patients in a low-income city neighborhood for decades.

"Obviously, these allegations are very, very serious," Brennan said.

The grand jury said the woman who died was a patient who came to Gosnell's clinic for an abortion and died of cardiac arrest because she was given too much Demerol. Gosnell wasn't at the clinic at the time, but directed his staff to administer the drug to keep the woman, a healthy 41-year-old woman, sedated until he arrived, prosecutors said.

Gosnell has been named in at least 46 malpractice suits, including one over the death of a 22-year-old mother who died of sepsis and a perforated uterus in 2000. Many others also involve perforated uteruses. Gosnell sometimes sewed up the injury without telling women their uteruses had been perforated, prosecutors said.

Gosnell charged $325 for first-trimester abortions and $1,600 to $3,000 for abortions up to 30 weeks. Abortions are legal up to 24 weeks gestation in Pennsylvania, although most doctors won't perform them after 20 weeks, prosecutors said.

Some women came from across the mid-Atlantic for the illegal late-term abortions, authorities said. White women from the suburbs were ushered into a separate, slightly cleaner area because Gosnell believed they were more likely to file complaints, Williams said.

"People knew near and far that if you needed a late-term abortion you could go see Dr. Gosnell," Williams said.

Few if any of the sedated women knew their babies were born alive and then killed, prosecutors said. Many were first-time mothers who were told they were 24 weeks pregnant, even if they were further along, authorities said.

Gosnell got his medical degree from Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia and is board certified in family practice. He started, but did not finish, a residency in obstetrics-gynecology, authorities said.

"He does not know how to do an abortion. He's not board certified," Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore said. "Once he got them there, he saw dollar signs and did abortions that other people wouldn't do."

Doggcow
01-19-2011, 11:41 AM
Wow, that's horrific.

Requiem
01-19-2011, 12:21 PM
Awful.

Rohirrim
01-19-2011, 12:29 PM
There are things in this world that are beyond my capacity to understand.

DenverBrit
01-19-2011, 12:55 PM
46 malpractice suits going back at least a decade?

How many suits have to be filed before action is taken against this disgusting individual??

gyldenlove
01-19-2011, 04:27 PM
46 malpractice suits going back at least a decade?

How many suits have to be filed before action is taken against this disgusting individual??

Unfortunately it is more difficult to get rid of an incompetent doctor than almost anything else, it is certainly true of doctors that they protect each other and it is also true that no country in the world has a good medical review process to deal with obviously incompetent or deliberately criminal individuals. They really do need to take the control of medical licenses out of the hands of doctors, they are not willing to police themselves.

Mile High Shack
01-19-2011, 04:28 PM
now, I'm not for killing people, but why didn't that one dude kill this abortion doctor?

cutthemdown
01-19-2011, 06:30 PM
This is pretty bad but killing babies is killing babies whether you do it as 2 months or 8 months IMO. Unbelievable in todays day and age we have people getting away with this for this long before being shut down.

cutthemdown
01-19-2011, 06:31 PM
ROFL!There are things in this world that are beyond my capacity to understand.

Pretty much everything.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-19-2011, 06:38 PM
How is this any different than any other form of late term abortion?

DenverBrit
01-19-2011, 06:43 PM
Unfortunately it is more difficult to get rid of an incompetent doctor than almost anything else, it is certainly true of doctors that they protect each other and it is also true that no country in the world has a good medical review process to deal with obviously incompetent or deliberately criminal individuals. They really do need to take the control of medical licenses out of the hands of doctors, they are not willing to police themselves.

Where were the Pro Life, abortion clinic bombers?

They kill the docs who perform legal terminations, but ignore this scumbag while he practices his unbelievably evil deeds.

As for the 'system', you're right. It is difficult to get theses rogue Docs put away when his peers protect him.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-19-2011, 06:43 PM
Unfortunately it is more difficult to get rid of an incompetent doctor than almost anything else, it is certainly true of doctors that they protect each other and it is also true that no country in the world has a good medical review process to deal with obviously incompetent or deliberately criminal individuals. They really do need to take the control of medical licenses out of the hands of doctors, they are not willing to police themselves.

You have got to be kidding me. Why don't you look up the minutes of just about any state medical board. They are online, as well as the disciplinary actions taken. They don't mess around. How this guy managed to practice, I won't pretend to understand. But saying that there is no internal policing amongst physicians is just flat out incorrect.

Jay3
01-19-2011, 08:16 PM
46 malpractice suits going back at least a decade?

How many suits have to be filed before action is taken against this disgusting individual??

Because it's abortion, people steer clear. Abortion opponents have been digging out remains for years and trying to "out" doctors who perform late term, but they get shouted down.

Abortion is just one of those issues that people define themselves by. And their vision gets clouded on the facts either way.

cutthemdown
01-19-2011, 08:23 PM
They always kill the babies when they do these late term abortions. People just don't want to hear the dirty details. This place sounds like a **** hole ran by a doctor that was really unsanitary, didn't have properly trained staff etc etc. I think though the baby killing part you are all ok with though right. So it's not the killing of the babies its the fact he did it in unsanitary conditions and wasn't a very good doctor.

cutthemdown
01-19-2011, 08:25 PM
The issue is twisted that is why it defines a lot of people. I mean society will charge with murder someone who injures a woman that is preganant killing the fetus, but that same woman can go kill the baby herself and its ok.

If people can't at least see the hypocrisy of that I don't see how you can argue.

They are really saying its only a life if the woman decides it is.

peacepipe
01-19-2011, 09:12 PM
How is this any different than any other form of late term abortion?once they were born they were protected under law.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-19-2011, 09:16 PM
once they were born they were protected under law.

It was a rhetorical question, as I'm sure you know. But just to clear things up, it's okay to pith a viable fetus as long as it isn't all the way out. Makes perfect sense.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-19-2011, 09:24 PM
This was a criminal enterprise beyond imagination. The only reason this guy was finally busted was because of the illegal pill mill he was running by day, not the baby butchery by night. There were countless complaints against him over the span of nearly four decades. He was never going to be investigated by the department of health because of the politics involved with abortion. This wasn't a case of physicians protecting their peer. This guy had no peers. Read the Grand Jury report here. Holy balls, everyone single person involved in the intentional disregard for regulatory oversight should go to prison over this.

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/grandJury_WomensMedical.html

Download the actual PDF report at the bottom, and prepare to be shocked.

epicSocialism4tw
01-19-2011, 09:25 PM
Unfortunately it is more difficult to get rid of an incompetent doctor than almost anything else, it is certainly true of doctors that they protect each other and it is also true that no country in the world has a good medical review process to deal with obviously incompetent or deliberately criminal individuals. They really do need to take the control of medical licenses out of the hands of doctors, they are not willing to police themselves.

Thats not true.

epicSocialism4tw
01-19-2011, 09:27 PM
This was a criminal enterprise beyond imagination. The only reason this guy was finally busted was because of the illegal pill mill he was running by day, not the baby butchery by night. There were countless complaints against him over the span of nearly four decades. He was never going to be investigated by the department of health because of the politics involved with abortion. This wasn't a case of physicians protecting their peer. This guy had no peers. Read the Grand Jury report here. Holy balls, everyone single person involved in the intentional disregard for regulatory oversight should go to prison over this.

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/grandJury_WomensMedical.html

Download the actual PDF report at the bottom, and prepare to be shocked.

Unbelievable.

What's equally disturbing is that the D&X procedure isnt much different from what this pathetic jackass was doing in his clinic, and the D&X procedure is legal.

People need to open their eyes to what abortion truly is.

JJJ
01-19-2011, 10:37 PM
once they were born they were protected under law.

Actually once the fetus reached 24 weeks in PA it was protected by the law.

You know that magical 24 week point where it miraculously becomes worth protecting, which through the unique development of the human body is a different number in different states.

epicSocialism4tw
01-19-2011, 10:57 PM
Actually once the fetus reached 24 weeks in PA it was protected by the law.

You know that magical 24 week point where it miraculously becomes worth protecting, which through the unique development of the human body is a different number in different states.

Sad.

ant1999e
01-19-2011, 11:21 PM
It was a rhetorical question, as I'm sure you know. But just to clear things up, it's okay to pith a viable fetus as long as it isn't all the way out. Makes perfect sense.

This. It makes no ****ing sense. Sick, selfish ****ing people are what's destroying this country.

chadta
01-20-2011, 05:51 AM
I think maybe much like executions need to be shown on tv, maybe we should show abortions on tv, not enough to where people would get desensitized, but enough that anybody who wants to have one would know what its all about.

Ive personally got no idea what all is done in an abortion, so i cant really picture a live baby being killed, i just assumed that they were injected with something and then sucked out. This story puts a picture to the procedure, and its sick.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 06:19 AM
I think maybe much like executions need to be shown on tv, maybe we should show abortions on tv, not enough to where people would get desensitized, but enough that anybody who wants to have one would know what its all about.

Ive personally got no idea what all is done in an abortion, so i cant really picture a live baby being killed, i just assumed that they were injected with something and then sucked out. This story puts a picture to the procedure, and its sick.

Read the grand jury report (http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf). This goes in to detail with photographic evidence of what this monster did. He literally induced labor and killed live viable near term neonates with scissors to the back of the neck, often after the mother "precipitously" delivered a live baby while left alone in a drug induced stupor. He killed and maimed countless females with drug overdoses administered by unlicensed personnel or by uterine / bowel perforations.

Again, the ONLY reason he was finally busted was the illegal narcotic distribution his daytime "pain management" practice was performing. If he would have limited his "practice" to the third world butchering of late term pregnant women, his actions would have continued to be actively ignored by the state regulatory and law enforcement agencies of Pennsylvania. The people in charge of the Dept of Health have retained criminal defense lawyers at the expense of the taxpayers, because they are going to be prosecuted next.

These patients are just as vile as this ****er. They knew that Gosnell was the only method for late term abortion, and paid exorbitant amounts of cash up front for these procedures. His abortion practice was almost exclusively dedicated to servicing the post 24 week gestation clients, which is against the law. He knew it, the patients knew it, and the Penn DOH knew it. It was more important to keep all options available to anyone who might want an abortion... even if that meant ignoring the blatantly illegal and unethical practice of Gosnell.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 07:30 AM
This is an excerpt straight from the Grand Jury Report:

Pennsylvania is not a third-world country. There were several oversight agencies
that stumbled upon and should have shut down Kermit Gosnell long ago. But none of
them did, not even after Karnamaya Mongar’s death. In the end, Gosnell was only
caught by accident, when police raided his offices to seize evidence of his illegal
prescription selling. Once law enforcement agents went in, they couldn’t help noticing
the disgusting conditions, the dazed patients, the discarded fetuses. That is why the
complete regulatory collapse that occurred here is so inexcusable. It should have taken
only one look.
The first line of defense was the Pennsylvania Department of Health. The 9
department’s job is to audit hospitals and outpatient medical facilities, like Gosnell’s, to
make sure that they follow the rules and provide safe care. The department had contact
with the Women’s Medical Society dating back to 1979, when it first issued approval to
open an abortion clinic. It did not conduct another site review until 1989, ten years later.
Numerous violations were already apparent, but Gosnell got a pass when he promised to
fix them. Site reviews in 1992 and 1993 also noted various violations, but again failed to
ensure they were corrected.
But at least the department had been doing something up to that point, however
ineffectual. After 1993, even that pro forma effort came to an end. Not because of
administrative ennui, although there had been plenty. Instead, the Pennsylvania
Department of Health abruptly decided, for political reasons, to stop inspecting abortion
clinics at all. The politics in question were not anti-abortion, but pro. With the change of
administration from Governor Casey to Governor Ridge, officials concluded that
inspections would be “putting a barrier up to women” seeking abortions. Better to leave
clinics to do as they pleased, even though, as Gosnell proved, that meant both women and
babies would pay.
The only exception to this live-and-let-die policy was supposed to be for
complaints dumped directly on the department’s doorstep. Those, at least, would be
investigated. Except that there were complaints about Gosnell, repeatedly. Several
different attorneys, representing women injured by Gosnell, contacted the department. A
doctor from Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia hand-delivered a complaint, advising the
department that numerous patients he had referred for abortions came back from Gosnell
with the same venereal disease. The medical examiner of Delaware County informed the 10
department that Gosnell had performed an illegal abortion on a 14-year-old girl carrying
a 30-week-old baby. And the department received official notice that a woman named
Karnamaya Mongar had died at Gosnell’s hands.
Yet not one of these alarm bells – not even Mrs. Mongar’s death – prompted the
department to look at Gosnell or the Women’s Medical Society. Only after the raid
occurred, and the story hit the press, did the department choose to act. Suddenly there
were no administrative, legal, or policy barriers; within weeks an order was issued to
close the clinic. And as this grand jury investigation widened, department officials
“lawyered up,” hiring a high-priced law firm to represent them at taxpayer expense. Had
they spent as much effort on inspection as they did on attorneys, none of this would have
happened to begin with.

baja
01-20-2011, 08:04 AM
The good news is we as a species are beginning to lose our ability to procreate.

Rohirrim
01-20-2011, 08:39 AM
This is an excerpt straight from the Grand Jury Report:



That is amazingly opinionated for a Grand Jury report. Got a link?

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 08:41 AM
That is amazingly opinionated for a Grand Jury report. Got a link?

Yeah, I've only posted it twice in this thread now.

Here's the third. http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf

Rohirrim
01-20-2011, 08:47 AM
Yeah, I've only posted it twice in this thread now.

Here's the third. http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf

Sorry I missed it. Sue me.

baja
01-20-2011, 08:55 AM
Sorry I missed it. Sue me.

http://dingo.care2.com/pictures/greenliving/1035/1034152.large.jpg

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 09:26 AM
Where were the Pro Life, abortion clinic bombers?

They kill the docs who perform legal terminations, but ignore this scumbag while he practices his unbelievably evil deeds.

As for the 'system', you're right. It is difficult to get theses rogue Docs put away when his peers protect him.

He violated every imaginable law regulating the practice of abortion in Pennsylvania, even when he aborted fetuses younger than 24 weeks. He was not qualified, his office did not remotely meet required standards, and not a single person who worked for him was licensed in any fashion. There were endless complaints lodged with the appropriate regulatory agencies that were essentially complicit in his murder for cash clinic.

What I don't understand is how he was able to maintain a general medical license. Again, he was not qualified by law to perform abortions... so I don't know how effective suspending his license would have been. It seems as though most complaints to the medical board were never fully investigated or reviewed. It shouldn't have mattered. The entire clinic should have been shut down thirty years ago by the health department.

The reason he got away with it is simple: the sacred cow status of abortion. The only reason he got caught is because of the narcotics raid by the DEA, and the subsequent press coverage.

Rohirrim
01-20-2011, 09:34 AM
He violated every imaginable law regulating the practice of abortion in Pennsylvania, even when he aborted fetuses younger than 24 weeks. He was not qualified, his office did not remotely meet required standards, and not a single person who worked for him was licensed in any fashion. There were endless complaints lodged with the appropriate regulatory agencies that were essentially complicit in his murder for cash clinic.

What I don't understand is how he was able to maintain a general medical license. Again, he was not qualified by law to perform abortions... so I don't know how effective suspending his license would have been. It seems as though most complaints to the medical board were never fully investigated or reviewed. It shouldn't have mattered. The entire clinic should have been shut down thirty years ago by the health department.

The reason he got away with it is simple: the sacred cow status of abortion. The only reason he got caught is because of the narcotics raid by the DEA, and the subsequent press coverage.

It's also possible that the regulatory agencies are so underfunded (as they are in most states now) that the caseloads for investigators were ridiculously unmanageble.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 09:35 AM
It's also possible that the regulatory agencies are so underfunded (as they are in most states now) that the caseloads for investigators were ridiculously unmanageble.

Keep f--king that chicken.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 09:38 AM
The Penn Dept of Health only had the last thirty years of multiple complaints to investigate this asshat. Suddenly they have the funds to shut him down, and hire a legal defense firm to boot. They were well aware of what was going on.

Rohirrim
01-20-2011, 09:43 AM
Keep f--king that chicken.

Sorry. Didn't realize you had personal involvement in the case. Go ahead and rant on.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 09:47 AM
Sorry. Didn't realize you had personal involvement in the case. Go ahead and rant on.

I'm just pointing out exactly what was published in the Grand Jury Report, submitted by the District Attorney of Philadelphia.

Rohirrim
01-20-2011, 10:02 AM
I just see a ****storm of major proportions coming out of this case - as there should be. Unfortunately, what often happens is the political and media storms wash away the truth, while the officials and politicians work hard to cover their own asses. At base, this guy is another ****ing Mengele, and the root cause and perpetrator of these heinous crimes. But there are probably a lot of other issues that allowed this murderer to stay in business. One might be race. Another might be his location and the economic class of his patients. Another might be the funding of regulatory agencies and investigator caseloads.

I remember a horrific foster care case in Florida a few years ago where they discovered that caseloads were so bad for social workers, that if it would take them ten years to visit all their cases at twenty a day, no matter how many complaints came in. And the focus of the media attack on that case ended up being the social worker responsible for that foster home on her caseload - not the funding, not the politicians, not the system, not the politics. She promptly quit and the media moved on. I doubt anything changed in that case. And after this ****storm passes, and they pick some investigator or case worker to pin this case on, nothing will change either. Call me cynical.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 10:07 AM
If the Doctor in question killed those babies and perforated those hollow organs with an assault rifle, would he have been shut down earlier?

Rohirrim
01-20-2011, 10:09 AM
If the Doctor in question killed those babies and perforated those hollow organs with an assault rifle, would he have been shut down earlier?

I'm sure the Right/Left hysteria will be part of the ****storm that drowns the facts of the case pretty quickly. Like I said.

DBruleU
01-20-2011, 10:13 AM
This is just unbelievable to read.

Over the years, there were hundreds of “snippings.” Sometimes, if Gosnell was
unavailable, the “snipping” was done by one of his fake doctors, or even by one of the
administrative staff. But all the employees of the Women’s Medical Society knew.
Everyone there acted as if it wasn’t murder at all.
Most of these acts cannot be prosecuted, because Gosnell destroyed the files.
Among the relatively few cases that could be specifically documented, one was Baby
Boy A. His 17-year-old mother was almost 30 weeks pregnant – seven and a half months
– when labor was induced. An employee estimated his birth weight as approaching six
pounds. He was breathing and moving when Dr. Gosnell severed his spine and put the
body in a plastic shoebox for disposal. The doctor joked that this baby was so big he
could “walk me to the bus stop.” Another, Baby Boy B, whose body was found at the
clinic frozen in a one-gallon spring-water bottle, was at least 28 weeks of gestational age
when he was killed. Baby C was moving and breathing for 20 minutes before an
assistant came in and cut the spinal cord, just the way she had seen Gosnell do it so many times.

cutthemdown
01-20-2011, 11:50 AM
It's also possible that the regulatory agencies are so underfunded (as they are in most states now) that the caseloads for investigators were ridiculously unmanageble.

It's probably a combination of a lot of thing that allow someone like this to slip through the system. Also the remark pretty much everything was a joke, you know I think your pretty smart. ^5

epicSocialism4tw
01-20-2011, 11:59 AM
I just see a ****storm of major proportions coming out of this case - as there should be. Unfortunately, what often happens is the political and media storms wash away the truth, while the officials and politicians work hard to cover their own asses. At base, this guy is another ****ing Mengele, and the root cause and perpetrator of these heinous crimes. But there are probably a lot of other issues that allowed this murderer to stay in business. One might be race. Another might be his location and the economic class of his patients. Another might be the funding of regulatory agencies and investigator caseloads.

I remember a horrific foster care case in Florida a few years ago where they discovered that caseloads were so bad for social workers, that if it would take them ten years to visit all their cases at twenty a day, no matter how many complaints came in. And the focus of the media attack on that case ended up being the social worker responsible for that foster home on her caseload - not the funding, not the politicians, not the system, not the politics. She promptly quit and the media moved on. I doubt anything changed in that case. And after this ****storm passes, and they pick some investigator or case worker to pin this case on, nothing will change either. Call me cynical.

Ah yes...the bureaucrats just arent given enough cash. Thats the problem.

epicSocialism4tw
01-20-2011, 12:10 PM
I think maybe much like executions need to be shown on tv, maybe we should show abortions on tv, not enough to where people would get desensitized, but enough that anybody who wants to have one would know what its all about.

Ive personally got no idea what all is done in an abortion, so i cant really picture a live baby being killed, i just assumed that they were injected with something and then sucked out. This story puts a picture to the procedure, and its sick.

Here's the legal partial birth abortion that many Americans have tried to get banned because it is done into the third trimester, when the child is viable outside the womb:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gcA0ZuKGkI8/THM5pESt8MI/AAAAAAAAIeY/CF_riggH11w/s640/partial_birth_abortion.jpg

In this one, the Abortionist doesnt pith the child, he penetrates its skull with scissors, chops up brain tissue while the child is still alive and fighting death, and then he sucks out the brain tissue with a vacuum.

chadta
01-20-2011, 12:18 PM
Here's the legal partial birth abortion that many Americans have tried to get banned because it is done into the third trimester, when the child is viable outside the womb:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gcA0ZuKGkI8/THM5pESt8MI/AAAAAAAAIeY/CF_riggH11w/s640/partial_birth_abortion.jpg

In this one, the Abortionist doesnt pith the child, he penetrates its skull with scissors, chops up brain tissue while the child is still alive and fighting death, and then he sucks out the brain tissue with a vacuum.

Wow

i really had no idea, but as disgusting as it is, i still dont have a problem with abortion if the baby wouldnt be able to live on its own outside the mother, i would think that that with technological advances tho that age would get lower and lower each year.

im not sure that the abortion show above should be done at any age tho, yikes

epicSocialism4tw
01-20-2011, 12:40 PM
Wow

i really had no idea, but as disgusting as it is, i still dont have a problem with abortion if the baby wouldnt be able to live on its own outside the mother, i would think that that with technological advances tho that age would get lower and lower each year.

im not sure that the abortion show above should be done at any age tho, yikes

Its pretty sick.

Its the elephant in the room that nobody wants to acknowledge here.

You know that something is bad when the proponents of it try to avoid ever having to look at or talk about it.

Mothers of aborted babies put on display shoes bought in their memory with personal notes attached to the children whose deaths they still mourn:
http://www2.tbo.com/exposure/ar/659/372/2010/06/10/54572_abortion-protest-5.jpg

In the display, a siblings lament is revealed:
http://blog.al.com/live/2008/11/medium_baby_shoes.jpg

More shoes:
http://jonibh.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/baby1.jpg?w=500&h=291

Rohirrim
01-20-2011, 12:48 PM
Ah yes...the bureaucrats just arent given enough cash. Thats the problem.

Still struggling with the reading skills I see.

ant1999e
01-20-2011, 12:53 PM
Its pretty sick.

Its the elephant in the room that nobody wants to acknowledge here.

You know that something is bad when the proponents of it try to avoid ever having to look at or talk about it.



I brought up partial birth abortions here a few years ago but some of the sick bastards here still defended it. I guess there is a big difference when the baby is taken all the way out opposed to just enough to get the vaccum in and suck out the brains.

epicSocialism4tw
01-20-2011, 12:55 PM
I brought up partial birth abortions here a few years ago but some of the sick bastards here still defended it. I guess there is a big difference when the baby is taken all the way out opposed to just enough to get the vaccum in and suck out the brains.

Its horrific.

And its not something that would be done by a just or a benevolent society.

Rohirrim
01-20-2011, 12:59 PM
Partial birth abortion is murder. By any definition of the term. Any abortion is highly questionable. In cases of rape and incest, the woman can take immediate steps to forestall pregnancy. To me this is one of the main issues I have with the scientific community, including medicine. They take action based on presumptions, not facts. They make a certain presumption about the beginning of life, and then act on it. I assume it's a form of cover for their conscience - "It couldn't have lived outside the womb."

Yeah, well it was living inside the womb until you killed it.

It's like genetic manipulation of food crops. Well, we don't know what the **** we're doing, but we're going to do it anyway on the presumption that we'll be able to deal with whatever comes up.

Jay3
01-20-2011, 01:04 PM
Where were the Pro Life, abortion clinic bombers?

They kill the docs who perform legal terminations, but ignore this scumbag while he practices his unbelievably evil deeds.

If you were to look closely over the years, most of the time one of the abortionists is being targeted, the "protesters" are claiming that he's doing illegal late term abortions, committing infanticide, etc. It's what causes them to be able to get themselves worked up into justifying murder of the abortionist.

But in some parts, nobody ever wants to hear from the "Operation Rescue" types. Janet Reno brought RICO charges against them.

Rohirrim
01-20-2011, 01:05 PM
The procedure as illustrated above actually proves that the "doctors" who perform this abomination know that it is wrong. Why leave the head in the canal? There's no reason for that, other than it forestalls the possibility that the baby might grab a breath and start crying. I guess it would be a little more difficult to suck out its brain then, ethically speaking. I guess it's one of those legalities. If they leave the head in the canal, it's not a person, it's more like a gall bladder.

baja
01-20-2011, 01:22 PM
Over population is the root problem on the planet today but abortion is not the solution.

To women that want to determine what happens to their bodies don't have unprotected sex.

JJJ
01-20-2011, 03:20 PM
Over population is the root problem on the planet today but abortion is not the solution.

To women that want to determine what happens to their bodies don't have unprotected sex.

Exactly. I agree with everything in this post.

You want to slow global warming, slow the global birth rate down.

But not with abortions.

Women do have a choice. The choice to have unprotected sex or not.

Jay3
01-20-2011, 03:31 PM
If you develop the economy, and have an environment where people actually have a chance to better themselves, and put the full consequences of childbirth on the parents (fathers included), birth rates aren't too much of a problem. People with something to lose don't tend to keep birthing babies. They might make a stupid mistake, but they learn from the first one. (And one kid per mother isn't contributing to overpopulation).

Make people actually pay their own way (and their family's), and they tend to start acting like the middle class. Working, saving, and making better decisions.

We need to become a society where everyone feels like he has a stake in the neighborhood, or feels like he has a nest egg that he's preserving. People self-police most of these behaviors then.

ant1999e
01-20-2011, 04:49 PM
If you develop the economy, and have an environment where people actually have a chance to better themselves, and put the full consequences of childbirth on the parents (fathers included), birth rates aren't too much of a problem. People with something to lose don't tend to keep birthing babies. They might make a stupid mistake, but they learn from the first one. (And one kid per mother isn't contributing to overpopulation).

Make people actually pay their own way (and their family's), and they tend to start acting like the middle class. Working, saving, and making better decisions.

We need to become a society where everyone feels like he has a stake in the neighborhood, or feels like he has a nest egg that he's preserving. People self-police most of these behaviors then.

Seems simple doesn't it? Don't want to get OT but this is why I am against the current welfare system. People are given money and food and a place to live. They never get everything you just brought up.

DenverBrit
01-20-2011, 05:00 PM
If you were to look closely over the years, most of the time one of the abortionists is being targeted, the "protesters" are claiming that he's doing illegal late term abortions, committing infanticide, etc. It's what causes them to be able to get themselves worked up into justifying murder of the abortionist.

But in some parts, nobody ever wants to hear from the "Operation Rescue" types. Janet Reno brought RICO charges against them.

With all the malpractice suits in place, you'd think they would have noticed his activities and drawn attention to his clinic.

Neither the pro life crowd, the State health dept or medical boards seem to give a damn.
And as his lawsuits go back a decade, State funding can't be the reason he wasn't put out of business, it has to be indifference or incompetence.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 05:33 PM
With all the malpractice suits in place, you'd think they would have noticed his activities and drawn attention to his clinic.

Neither the pro life crowd, the State health dept or medical boards seem to give a damn.
And as his lawsuits go back a decade, State funding can't be the reason he wasn't put out of business, it has to be indifference or incompetence.

It was willful neglect on the part of the Department of Health. They had ample knowledge of what was happening from multiple complaints, some hand delivered by a physician who ultimately wound up working for the Philadelphia DOH. That's right -- a physician who repeatedly complained to the DOH about Gosnell ultimately went to work for the DOH. They knew exactly what was going on.

From the grand jury report: http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf

Ironically, the doctor at CHOP who personally complained to the Pennsylvania
Department of Health about the spread of venereal disease from Gosnell’s clinic, the
doctor who used to refer teenage girls to Gosnell for abortions, became the head of the
city’s health department two years ago. But nothing changed in the time leading up to
Mrs. Mongar’s death. And it wasn’t just government agencies that did nothing. The
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania and its subsidiary, Penn Presbyterian Medical
Center, are in the same neighborhood as Gosnell’s office. State law requires hospitals to
report complications from abortions. A decade ago, a Gosnell patient died at HUP after a
botched abortion, and the hospital apparently filed the necessary report. But the victims 13
kept coming in. At least three other Gosnell patients were brought to Penn facilities for
emergency surgery; emergency room personnel said they have treated many others as
well. And at least one additional woman was hospitalized there after Gosnell had begun
a flagrantly illegal abortion of a 29-week-old fetus. Yet, other than the one initial report,
Penn could find not a single case in which it complied with its legal duty to alert
authorities to the danger. Not even when a second woman turned up virtually dead.
So too with the National Abortion Federation. NAF is an association of abortion
providers that upholds the strictest health and legal standards for its members. Gosnell,
bizarrely, applied for admission shortly after Karnamaya Mongar’s death. Despite his
various efforts to fool her, the evaluator from NAF readily noted that records were not
properly kept, that risks were not explained, that patients were not monitored, that
equipment was not available, that anesthesia was misused. It was the worst abortion
clinic she had ever inspected. Of course, she rejected Gosnell’s application. She just
never told anyone in authority about all the horrible, dangerous things she had seen.
Bureaucratic inertia is not exactly news. We understand that. But we think this
was something more. We think the reason no one acted is because the women in
question were poor and of color, because the victims were infants without identities, and
because the subject was the political football of abortion.

baja
01-20-2011, 06:12 PM
It was willful neglect on the part of the Department of Health. They had ample knowledge of what was happening from multiple complaints, some hand delivered by a physician who ultimately wound up working for the Philadelphia DOH. That's right -- a physician who repeatedly complained to the DOH about Gosnell ultimately went to work for the DOH. They knew exactly what was going on.

From the grand jury report: http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf

Ironically, the doctor at CHOP who personally complained to the Pennsylvania
Department of Health about the spread of venereal disease from Gosnell’s clinic, the
doctor who used to refer teenage girls to Gosnell for abortions, became the head of the
city’s health department two years ago. But nothing changed in the time leading up to
Mrs. Mongar’s death. And it wasn’t just government agencies that did nothing. The
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania and its subsidiary, Penn Presbyterian Medical
Center, are in the same neighborhood as Gosnell’s office. State law requires hospitals to
report complications from abortions. A decade ago, a Gosnell patient died at HUP after a
botched abortion, and the hospital apparently filed the necessary report. But the victims 13
kept coming in. At least three other Gosnell patients were brought to Penn facilities for
emergency surgery; emergency room personnel said they have treated many others as
well. And at least one additional woman was hospitalized there after Gosnell had begun
a flagrantly illegal abortion of a 29-week-old fetus. Yet, other than the one initial report,
Penn could find not a single case in which it complied with its legal duty to alert
authorities to the danger. Not even when a second woman turned up virtually dead.
So too with the National Abortion Federation. NAF is an association of abortion
providers that upholds the strictest health and legal standards for its members. Gosnell,
bizarrely, applied for admission shortly after Karnamaya Mongar’s death. Despite his
various efforts to fool her, the evaluator from NAF readily noted that records were not
properly kept, that risks were not explained, that patients were not monitored, that
equipment was not available, that anesthesia was misused. It was the worst abortion
clinic she had ever inspected. Of course, she rejected Gosnell’s application. She just
never told anyone in authority about all the horrible, dangerous things she had seen.
Bureaucratic inertia is not exactly news. We understand that. But we think this
was something more. <b> We think the reason no one acted is because the women in
question were poor and of color, because the victims were infants without identities, and
because the subject was the political football of abortion.

I bet that's what we were all thinking from the beginning of this thread, I know I was. Future welfare babies that nobody wanted and would be a drain on society all their lives first welfare than crime ending in prison.

Did you guys have this thought?

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 06:18 PM
I bet that's what we were all thinking from the beginning of this thread, I know I was. Future welfare babies that nobody wanted and would be a drain on society all their lives first welfare than crime ending in prison.

Did you guys have this thought?

I was thinking more along the lines of abortion being the liberal sacred cow. But I see your point as well.

DenverBrit
01-20-2011, 06:52 PM
It was willful neglect on the part of the Department of Health. They had ample knowledge of what was happening from multiple complaints, some hand delivered by a physician who ultimately wound up working for the Philadelphia DOH. That's right -- a physician who repeatedly complained to the DOH about Gosnell ultimately went to work for the DOH. They knew exactly what was going on.

From the grand jury report: http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf

Ironically, the doctor at CHOP who personally complained to the Pennsylvania
Department of Health about the spread of venereal disease from Gosnell’s clinic, the
doctor who used to refer teenage girls to Gosnell for abortions, became the head of the
city’s health department two years ago. But nothing changed in the time leading up to
Mrs. Mongar’s death. And it wasn’t just government agencies that did nothing. The
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania and its subsidiary, Penn Presbyterian Medical
Center, are in the same neighborhood as Gosnell’s office. State law requires hospitals to
report complications from abortions. A decade ago, a Gosnell patient died at HUP after a
botched abortion, and the hospital apparently filed the necessary report. But the victims 13
kept coming in. At least three other Gosnell patients were brought to Penn facilities for
emergency surgery; emergency room personnel said they have treated many others as
well. And at least one additional woman was hospitalized there after Gosnell had begun
a flagrantly illegal abortion of a 29-week-old fetus. Yet, other than the one initial report,
Penn could find not a single case in which it complied with its legal duty to alert
authorities to the danger. Not even when a second woman turned up virtually dead.
So too with the National Abortion Federation. NAF is an association of abortion
providers that upholds the strictest health and legal standards for its members. Gosnell,
bizarrely, applied for admission shortly after Karnamaya Mongar’s death. Despite his
various efforts to fool her, the evaluator from NAF readily noted that records were not
properly kept, that risks were not explained, that patients were not monitored, that
equipment was not available, that anesthesia was misused. It was the worst abortion
clinic she had ever inspected. Of course, she rejected Gosnell’s application. She just
never told anyone in authority about all the horrible, dangerous things she had seen.
Bureaucratic inertia is not exactly news. We understand that. But we think this
was something more. We think the reason no one acted is because the women in
question were poor and of color, because the victims were infants without identities, and
because the subject was the political football of abortion.

Criminal indifference on the part of the DOH and if the last sentence is true, one has to wonder how widespread the problem really is; not just in PA

DenverBrit
01-20-2011, 06:53 PM
I bet that's what we were all thinking from the beginning of this thread, I know I was. Future welfare babies that nobody wanted and would be a drain on society all their lives first welfare than crime ending in prison.

Did you guys have this thought?

I do now.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 07:04 PM
Here is another excerpt from that report, around page 148:

Since February 2010, Department of Health officials have reinstituted regular
inspections of abortion clinics – finding authority in the same statute they used
earlier to justify not inspecting.
Staloski blamed the decision to abandon supposedly annual inspections of
abortion clinics on DOH lawyers, who, she said, changed their legal opinions and advice
to suit the policy preferences of different governors. Under Governor Robert Casey, she
said, the department inspected abortion facilities annually. Yet, when Governor Tom
Ridge came in, the attorneys interpreted the same regulations that had permitted annual
inspections for years to no longer authorize those inspections. Then, only complaintdriven inspections supposedly were authorized. Staloski said that DOH’s policy during
Governor Ridge’s administration was motivated by a desire not to be “putting a barrier up
to women” seeking abortions.
Brody confirmed some of what Staloski told the Grand Jury. He described a
meeting of high-level government officials in 1999 at which a decision was made not to
accept a recommendation to reinstitute regular inspections of abortion clinics. The
reasoning, as Brody recalled, was: “there was a concern that if they did routine
inspections, that they may find a lot of these facilities didn’t meet [the standards for
getting patients out by stretcher or wheelchair in an emergency], and then there would be
less abortion facilities, less access to women to have an abortion.”
Brody testified that he did not consider the “access issue” a legal one. The
Abortion Control Act, he told the Grand Jurors, charges DOH with protecting the health
and safety of women having abortions and premature infants aborted alive. To carry out
this responsibility, he said, DOH should regularly inspect the facilities. 148
Nevertheless, the position of DOH remained the same after Edward Rendell
became governor. Using the legally faulty excuse that the department lacked the authority
to inspect abortion clinics, Staloski left them unmonitored, presumably with the
knowledge and blessing of her bosses, Deputy Secretary Stacy Mitchell and a succession
of Secretaries of Health. The department continued its do-nothing policy until 2010,
when media attention surrounding the raid of the Gosnell clinic exposed the results of
years of hands-off “oversight.” Now, once again, the regulations, which have never been
modified, apparently allow for regular inspections. This is, and always was, the correct
position. The state legislature gave DOH the duty to enforce its regulations; the authority
and power to do so are implicit in that duty. The department abandoned this
responsibility without explanation, and without notice to the public or the legislature.
Whatever its motivation, DOH’s deliberate policy decision not to conduct regular
inspections of abortion clinics did not serve the women of this Commonwealth. Nor did it
protect late-term fetuses or viable babies born alive. The Grand Jury heard testimony
from legitimate abortion providers and from abortion-rights advocates, and not one
indicated that annual inspections would be unduly burdensome. The doctors we heard
from, and the organizations that refer women to abortion providers, told us that the
reputable providers comply with all of the state regulations and more. Annual inspections
are not an issue with them. Many clinics in Pennsylvania are already inspected by NAF,
whose standards are, in many ways, more protective of women’s safety than are the
state’s regulations. 149
Without regular inspections, providers like Gosnell continue to operate; unlawful
and dangerous third-trimester abortions go undetected; and many women, especially poor
women, suffer. These are all consequences of DOH’s abdication of its responsibility.
Moreover, even if Staloski was instructed not to conduct regular, annual
inspections, that does not explain why she failed to order inspections when complaints
were received. It is clear to us that she was made aware, numerous times, that serious
incidents had occurred at Gosnell’s clinic. These incidents, which evidenced alarming as
well as illegal long-standing patterns of behavior, warranted investigation. Yet, in all the
years she worked at the department, Staloski never ordered even one inspection.

baja
01-20-2011, 07:09 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of abortion being the liberal sacred cow. But I see your point as well.

To be clear that is not my view. It is what I think the athorties thought.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 07:13 PM
This was wanton and willing criminal neglect by the Pennsylvania state and Philadelphia regulatory agencies. It was done in order to keep any and all options of abortion open to the public, because it aligns politically with the Department of Health and the City of Philadelphia.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-20-2011, 07:18 PM
To be clear that is not my view. It is what I think the athorties thought.

I understand where you are coming from. Believe it or not... I'm not a strict pro-lifer. There are times when an early gestational elective abortion is understandable. I have had to personally suggest it to one of my patients for medical reasons. It's monsters like Gosnell with the government acting as accomplice that gives an almost understandable reason for the pro life movement to become violently radical.

spdirty
01-20-2011, 08:23 PM
Very sad.

Rohirrim
01-20-2011, 09:16 PM
I bet that's what we were all thinking from the beginning of this thread, I know I was. Future welfare babies that nobody wanted and would be a drain on society all their lives first welfare than crime ending in prison.

Did you guys have this thought?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3095041&postcount=38

baja
01-20-2011, 09:43 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3095041&postcount=38

We come to the same conclusions a lot. Except when we don't. ;D

TonyR
01-25-2011, 11:21 AM
Don't shoot the messenger, but you have to admit that this is a good and interesting point:


Gosnell is precisely the kind of butcher the pro-choice movement opposes. No one endorses bad medicine and unrestricted, unregulated, cowboy surgery like Gosnell practiced — what he represents is the kind of back-alley deadly hackery that the anti-choice movement would have as the only possible recourse, if they had their way. If anything, the Gosnell case is an argument for legal abortion.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/01/this_is_not_a_case_about_abort.php?utm_source=feed burner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogs%2Fpharyngula+%28 Pharyngula%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

TonyR
01-25-2011, 11:32 AM
While Gosnell’s clinic was an anomaly, it wasn’t entirely unique; the stigma and secrecy around abortion has long attracted the occasional criminal to the field. In her book Dispatches From the Abortion Wars, the sociologist Carole Joffe wrote about what she called “rogue clinics.” “These clinics—or in some cases individual doctors—typically prey on women in low-income immigrant communities.” She described a case in 2008 in which two sisters, Berta and Raquel Bugarin, were arrested for practicing medicine without a license at a string of clinics in Southern California and sued for causing injury and wrongful death. “That such clinics can flourish until the inevitable disaster occurs strikes me as a ‘perfect storm’ caused by the marginalization of abortion care from mainstream medicine, the lack of universal health care in the United States, and the particular difficulties facing undocumented immigrants in obtaining health care in the United States,” she wrote.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-01-20/philadelphias-abortion-murder-the-need-for-safe-abortions/

epicSocialism4tw
01-25-2011, 11:34 AM
Don't shoot the messenger, but you have to admit that this is a good and interesting point:


Gosnell is precisely the kind of butcher the pro-choice movement opposes. No one endorses bad medicine and unrestricted, unregulated, cowboy surgery like Gosnell practiced — what he represents is the kind of back-alley deadly hackery that the anti-choice movement would have as the only possible recourse, if they had their way. If anything, the Gosnell case is an argument for legal abortion.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/01/this_is_not_a_case_about_abort.php?utm_source=feed burner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogs%2Fpharyngula+%28 Pharyngula%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

Not a good point.

This case does one thing: it illustrates the depravity and horror of partial birth abortion.

Partial birth abortion is legal because radical factions of the left whose values do not coincide with those of the larger american body populace want it to be so.

They use arbitrary, meaningless designations to deprive the person in utero of their rights as a living human being so that they can kill poor peoples' children. Its the most disgusting practice ever conceived by American minds. Abortion was literally created here to kill black children by using the same eugenics philosophy that the Nazis used to kill the Jews. http://blackgenocide.org/negro.html

Margaret Sanger on helping the poor:
"Organized charity itself is the symptom of a malignant social disease. Those vast, complex, interrelated organizations aiming to control and to diminish the spread of misery and destitution and all the menacing evils that spring out of this sinisterly fertile soil, are the surest sign that our civilization has bred, is breeding and perpetuating constantly increasing numbers of defectives, delinquents and dependents."


But hey, that racist elitist Margaret Sanger is a feminist hero, right?

TonyR
01-25-2011, 11:45 AM
This case does one thing: it illustrates the depravity and horror of partial birth abortion.

I agree with your point above. But I think you're missing the point made in what I posted, which is surprising since I highlighted it for you. Many people are using this case as evidence that abortion should be illegal. The facts are that if abortion was made illegal there would be more cases like this, not less. It's common sense, but of course common sense is not common. The solution isn't to make abortion illegal. The solution is to avoid unwanted pregnancies. This is probably best accomplished by way of education and birth control, but of course there are interests on the right that don't want either of these things for various reasons. So these same interests are actually making the problem worse.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-25-2011, 11:47 AM
Don't shoot the messenger, but you have to admit that this is a good and interesting point:


Gosnell is precisely the kind of butcher the pro-choice movement opposes. No one endorses bad medicine and unrestricted, unregulated, cowboy surgery like Gosnell practiced — what he represents is the kind of back-alley deadly hackery that the anti-choice movement would have as the only possible recourse, if they had their way. If anything, the Gosnell case is an argument for legal abortion.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/01/this_is_not_a_case_about_abort.php?utm_source=feed burner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogs%2Fpharyngula+%28 Pharyngula%29&utm_content=Google+Reader


Late term abortions are against the law for good reason. But these weren't just late term abortions. These were near full term labor inducements combined with post delivery murder of viable human beings. The Pennsylvania Department of Health knew exactly what was going on there, and willfully chose to ignore it. At least, that's what the grand jury report states. That is as good as endorsing it IMO. There are plenty of places that provide competent medical care for abortions in the first 20 weeks. Are you saying that this maniac is an argument for pro-choice absolutism?

TonyR
01-25-2011, 11:49 AM
Late term abortions are against the law for good reason.

Agree. Not my point. I tried to clarify above. It's really a very simple point. Let's not over complicate this.

epicSocialism4tw
01-25-2011, 12:01 PM
I agree with your point above. But I think you're missing the point made in what I posted, which is surprising since I highlighted it for you.

No.

You, in they typical roundabout leftist way, contorted this case to mean what you wanted it to mean. You're using the old, tired, publicly unchallenged rationale that putting abortion clinics on every corner in the inner city is okay because some cases become too graphic and uncomfortable when we dont couch the horror in terms like "choice", "sanitary", "women's rights", and "surgery", and when it is hidden behind closed doors so nobody can see and so nobody talks about it.

What this man did is only very slightly different than the dilation and extraction procedure that is legal. Its actually less graphic. At least he wasnt stabbing the kid through his skull, cutting up his brain, and then vacuuming it out into a biohazard bag and throwing it in the trash along with the baby's corpse.

Many people are using this case as evidence that abortion should be illegal.

This says more about what information you embibe than what anyone else thinks.

The facts are that if abortion was made illegal there would be more cases like this, not less.

And whats wrong about that? Abortion is just as horrific on a hospital bed as it is in some basement somewhere. Its still murder, its still extremely sad, its still graphic, its still horrific, its still risky, and it still leaves the mother with a lifetime of internal shame and loss.

The solution isn't to make abortion illegal. The solution is to avoid unwanted pregnancies. This is probably best accomplished by way of education and birth control, but of course there are interests on the right that don't want either of these things for various reasons. So these same interests are actually making the problem worse.

Here's the solution: Parents...raise your own dadgum kids. Quit asking the government to do it.

epicSocialism4tw
01-25-2011, 12:05 PM
Are you saying that this maniac is an argument for pro-choice absolutism?

No, he's making the desperate argument that current abortion law is just.

TonyR
01-25-2011, 12:13 PM
No, he's making the desperate argument that current abortion law is just.

Nope, wrong. I made no such argument. I made it very clear what my point was. Try again.

TonyR
01-25-2011, 12:17 PM
And whats wrong about that? Abortion is just as horrific on a hospital bed as it is in some basement somewhere. Its still murder, its still extremely sad, its still graphic, its still horrific, its still risky, and it still leaves the mother with a lifetime of internal shame and loss.


I sometimes make the false assumption that you're more intelligent than you are. What's wrong with that? Seriously? So more back alley, butcher job abortions are what we want? This is so simple and yet you're so shrill and hyperbolic that you can't understand it through your thoughtless, mindless rage. Take a step back, take a deep breath, and try something new: think.

kappys
01-25-2011, 01:31 PM
This is gut wrenching stuff - I should not have read it after eating.

Dr. Bronc is right on with this one - the State Health Board acted outrageously. That said I do think there are some pretty awful physicians(not on this level, more on the stealing peoples money without providing them with any benefits level but no harm) that are able to get away with it. One of the gurus of "environmental medicine" is here in Dallas and does just that. Despite being brought to the board several times he has avoided any actions - largely due to the accumen and cost of his high powered defense team.

Still that is an example that is a far, far cry from this one. At worst he is a fraudulent snake-oil peddler, but no one would call him a murderer

TonyR
01-25-2011, 01:43 PM
- the State Health Board acted outrageously...

Yes, and in an interesting contrast this "doctor" used to also practice in my home state and his license was quickly suspended here.

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20110123/NEWS01/101230336/Doctor-s-license-swiftly-suspended

Dr. Broncenstein
01-25-2011, 06:38 PM
This is gut wrenching stuff - I should not have read it after eating.

Dr. Bronc is right on with this one - the State Health Board acted outrageously. That said I do think there are some pretty awful physicians(not on this level, more on the stealing peoples money without providing them with any benefits level but no harm) that are able to get away with it. One of the gurus of "environmental medicine" is here in Dallas and does just that. Despite being brought to the board several times he has avoided any actions - largely due to the accumen and cost of his high powered defense team.

Still that is an example that is a far, far cry from this one. At worst he is a fraudulent snake-oil peddler, but no one would call him a murderer

The thing that bothers me the most is the willful "ignorance" on the part of the health department. They pretended not to know what was going on despite the avalanche of evidence to the contrary. As stated in the grand jury report, there was a concern that any sort of inspection on Gosnell's clinic would serve to limit access to abortion services. They intentionally neglected to inspect his clinic even when multiple specific complaints were hand delivered to the Health Department by physicians. The ONLY reason he was ever busted was because of his separate narcotic pill mill raid by the DEA.

Imagine if he would have fixed a rusty bayonet to an assault rifle and performed his "operation," followed by a gunshot to the fetal skull after delivery. Same results -- perforated hollow organs to the mothers, and lethal wound to the base of the fetal skulls. How long would he have been allowed to practice? There literally would be no difference in the outcomes. Yet the politics involving the manner in which he committed murder allowed him to do so for decades, and become filthy rich in the process. This was criminal beyond the scope of imagination, and it had a willing accomplice by the regulatory agencies responsible for preventing such atrocities.

epicSocialism4tw
01-25-2011, 10:19 PM
I sometimes make the false assumption that you're more intelligent than you are. What's wrong with that? Seriously? So more back alley, butcher job abortions are what we want? This is so simple and yet you're so shrill and hyperbolic that you can't understand it through your thoughtless, mindless rage. Take a step back, take a deep breath, and try something new: think.

Intelligence is not correlated with ones ability to intentionally ignore horrific injustice.

You're more a philosophical ostritch than a human. Maybe we should pass a law that defines you as 1/3rd human because you do not show the ability to think outside of the lefty echo chamber, making you not fully independent of your puppeteers.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-26-2011, 02:26 AM
Yes, and in an interesting contrast this "doctor" used to also practice in my home state and his license was quickly suspended here.

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20110123/NEWS01/101230336/Doctor-s-license-swiftly-suspended

This was a mirrored action by the Delaware Board of Medicine after Pennsylvania suspended his license. Here is something I found troubling but not at all surprising from your article:

Delaware state law does not allow the Department of Health and Social Services to inspect abortion providers or any other medical doctors, agency spokesman Carl Kanefsky said Saturday.

I would imagine that the Pennsylvania medical board contacted Delaware's medical board.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-27-2011, 08:27 AM
<big style="font-weight: bold;">http://www.bartcop.com/az-abortion-abuse.jpg</big>

epicSocialism4tw
01-27-2011, 09:01 AM
<big style="font-weight: bold;">http://www.bartcop.com/az-abortion-abuse.jpg</big>

Wow...thats a sick equivalency there, guy.

Abortion = buying guns?

Shameful.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-27-2011, 06:52 PM
^

Another point sails right over AngrySpammerQueen's thick head. :oyvey:

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 07:13 AM
Trial started in March. Not a single mention of the story by NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, NPR, MSNBC, etc. Just one mention on CNN. Why is that? Why are there no demands for new regulations to protect innocent children, even if it saves one life? Why was there wall to wall coverage of the Rutgers basketball coach while this trial gets no coverage? Why is Jodi Arias trial a sensational story worth every network's daily attention but this isn't?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 07:16 AM
Imagine for a second that Gosnell's murder weapon was an AR15 instead of decapitation by scissors of live viable newborn infants? Think there might be some news coverage and left wing outrage?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 07:19 AM
Imagine if newborn puppies were serially decapitated by scissors by some crazy nut job. Think we might here something about that on the national news?

baja
04-13-2013, 08:53 AM
Trial started in March. Not a single mention of the story by NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, NPR, MSNBC, etc. Just one mention on CNN. Why is that? Why are there no demands for new regulations to protect innocent children, even if it saves one life? Why was there wall to wall coverage of the Rutgers basketball coach while this trial gets no coverage? Why is Jodi Arias trial a sensational story worth every network's daily attention but this isn't?

This is why I think the USA is doomed to the will of evil. It is revolting this is not head line news yet we are kept up on how Madona styles here pubic strip.

All main line news is controlled by just a few corporations and real news is shelved in favor of tabloid crap.

Anyone who thinks America is not deep into a takeover by an evil global force is asleep at the wheel.

If not that please enlighten me as to what the hell is happening.

peacepipe
04-13-2013, 09:13 AM
Imagine if newborn puppies were serially decapitated by scissors by some crazy nut job. Think we might here something about that on the national news?

**** off. Abortion is a legal medical procedure & it will always be.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 09:39 AM
This is why I think the USA is doomed to the will of evil. It is revolting this is not head line news yet we are kept up on how Madona styles here pubic strip.

All main line news is controlled by just a few corporations and real news is shelved in favor of tabloid crap.

Anyone who thinks America is not deep into a takeover by an evil global force is asleep at the wheel.

If not that please enlighten me as to what the hell is happening.

This is a voluntary orchestrated censorship of the national media based purely upon liberal politics and the liberal sacred cow that is abortion.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 09:46 AM
**** off. Abortion is a legal medical procedure & it will always be.

Not at all surprised that someone thinks its ok to induce labor on full term pregnant women, then take a pair of scissors to the back of viable newborn infants and decapitate them. The national media doesn't think it's a big deal either. Throw a basketball at someone and call them a phaggot? That's news! Serial killer of viable full term infants at abortion clinic? Local crime story, nothing to report.

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 09:54 AM
Trial started in March. Not a single mention of the story by NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, NPR, MSNBC, etc. Just one mention on CNN. Why is that? Why are there no demands for new regulations to protect innocent children, even if it saves one life? Why was there wall to wall coverage of the Rutgers basketball coach while this trial gets no coverage? Why is Jodi Arias trial a sensational story worth every network's daily attention but this isn't?

I think it's pretty obvious -

the accused is black.

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 09:55 AM
Imagine for a second that Gosnell's murder weapon was an AR15 instead of decapitation by scissors of live viable newborn infants? Think there might be some news coverage and left wing outrage?

LMAO you're killing this thread. All true points. Media coverage - especially on the national level - is very ideologically bent and cleansed.

Keep in mind the Denver hate crimes spree a couple years ago never got one letter of national network coverage. Race has a lot to do with this as well as the sacred cow of abortion.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 10:03 AM
I think it's pretty obvious -

the accused is black.

I don't think that has anything to do with it. In fact, the media could play the racial persecution card like his defense team has. In all seriousness, this is a cold blooded serial killer with the additional scandal of a complicit department of health and state regulatory agencies. There should be wall to wall coverage of this story and yet there isn't a peep about it across the board of mainstream media. They literally broadcasted Jodi Arias live on the witness stand discussing her predilection for anal sex. There isn't a single detail about her murder trial that hasn't been discussed. Don't you find it creepy that the entire media has decided to censor itself in the hope of keeping the pro-abortion from looking bad?

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 10:08 AM
I don't think that has anything to do with it. In fact, the media could play the racial persecution card like his defense team has. In all seriousness, this is a cold blooded serial killer with the additional scandal of a complicit department of health and state regulatory agencies. There should be wall to wall coverage of this story and yet there isn't a peep about it across the board of mainstream media. They literally broadcasted Jodi Arias live on the witness stand discussing her predilection for anal sex. There isn't a single detail about her murder trial that hasn't been discussed. Don't you find it creepy that the entire media has decided to censor itself in the hope of keeping the pro-abortion from looking bad?

I definitely think it does, especially in the light of that the national media totally squelched the story about the greatest hate crime spree in Denver history because the perpetrators were black gangbangers and the victims nearly all white.

Is it the ONLY thing? No, I don't think so, but there is clearly a very ideological undercurrent in play here.

Another example is how their endless coverage of Manti Te'o immediately stopped across the board (even on a local level) when the male friend admitted to having homosexual urges. It was like someone snuffed out a candle, the story died so quickly. They literally all got together and made the ideological decision to drop it like a hot potato.

You can also see it in the media's selective and rare coverage of crime statistics.

They absolutely bottleneck information based on ideology.

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 10:10 AM
Not at all surprised that someone thinks its ok to induce labor on full term pregnant women, then take a pair of scissors to the back of viable newborn infants and decapitate them. The national media doesn't think it's a big deal either. Throw a basketball at someone and call them a *******? That's news! Serial killer of viable full term infants at abortion clinic? Local crime story, nothing to report.

Journalistic ethics are long extinct.

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 10:12 AM
<big style="font-weight: bold;">http://www.bartcop.com/az-abortion-abuse.jpg</big>

No constitutional right to abortions, but nice try. It is nice to see liberals finally admit that abortions are being abused, though.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 10:18 AM
At least Kirsten Powers, a liberal columnist has the guts to say something:

Let me state the obvious. This should be front page news. When Rush Limbaugh attacked Sandra Fluke, there was non-stop media hysteria. The venerable NBC Nightly News' Brian Williams intoned, "A firestorm of outrage from women after a crude tirade from Rush Limbaugh," as he teased a segment on the brouhaha. Yet, accusations of babies having their heads severed — a major human rights story if there ever was one — doesn't make the cut.

You don't have to oppose abortion rights to find late-term abortion abhorrent or to find the Gosnell trial eminently newsworthy. This is not about being "pro-choice" or "pro-life." It's about basic human rights.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/04/10/philadelphia-abortion-clinic-horror-column/2072577/

peacepipe
04-13-2013, 10:20 AM
No constitutional right to abortions, but nice try. It is nice to see liberals finally admit that abortions are being abused, though.

Actually,there is. Scotus can be a bitch .

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 10:23 AM
Actually,there is. Scotus can be a b**** .

If you look at the law, it doesn't cover viability, so it's not even relevant here.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 10:23 AM
More from Powers' incredible colum:

Infant beheadings. Severed baby feet in jars. A child screaming after it was delivered alive during an abortion procedure. Haven't heard about these sickening accusations?

It's not your fault. Since the murder trial of Pennsylvania abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell began March 18, there has been precious little coverage of the case that should be on every news show and front page. The revolting revelations of Gosnell's former staff, who have been testifying to what they witnessed and did during late-term abortions, should shock anyone with a heart.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/04/10/philadelphia-abortion-clinic-horror-column/2072577/

sisterhellfyre
04-13-2013, 10:24 AM
If the Doctor in question killed those babies and perforated those hollow organs with an assault rifle, would he have been shut down earlier?

There's a congressman in Texas, running for re-election, who would tell you that if babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted.

http://tinyurl.com/ckr32d2

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 10:24 AM
At least Kirsten Powers, a liberal columnist has the guts to say something:

Let me state the obvious. This should be front page news. When Rush Limbaugh attacked Sandra Fluke, there was non-stop media hysteria. The venerable NBC Nightly News' Brian Williams intoned, "A firestorm of outrage from women after a crude tirade from Rush Limbaugh," as he teased a segment on the brouhaha. Yet, accusations of babies having their heads severed — a major human rights story if there ever was one — doesn't make the cut.

You don't have to oppose abortion rights to find late-term abortion abhorrent or to find the Gosnell trial eminently newsworthy. This is not about being "pro-choice" or "pro-life." It's about basic human rights.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/04/10/philadelphia-abortion-clinic-horror-column/2072577/

Sacred cows beg to be slaughtered and this goes beyond merely abortion.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 10:25 AM
Actually,there is. Scotus can be a b**** .

This isn't about legal abortion. You f#%cking moron.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 10:28 AM
There's a congressman in Texas, running for re-election, who would tell you that if babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted.

http://tinyurl.com/ckr32d2

And just to prove my point, this rediculous statement gets national media coverage... but the trial of an accused serial murderer of full term infants being born alive and subsequently decapitated with scissors doesn't.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 10:32 AM
Stephen Massof, a former Gosnell worker, "described how he snipped the spinal cords of babies, calling it, 'literally a beheading. It is separating the brain from the body." One former worker, Adrienne Moton, testified that Gosnell taught her his "snipping" technique to use on infants born alive.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/04/10/philadelphia-abortion-clinic-horror-column/2072577/

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 10:32 AM
Speaking of selective moral outrage, you can also see it in the media's hype of Ann Coulter's comment. Martin Bashir set the whole thing off by making his own controversial comment which the media doesn't find controversial.

“But Congressman, is that what needs to happen to move these senators to stop threatening a filibuster?” Bashir asked. “Is that really what needs to happen? That you need to have a member of your family killed in order for you to do what the American people want you to do?”

Since more are killed by drunken drivers each year than are murdered by guns, perhaps what we need are people to have their family members killed by drunken drivers?

peacepipe
04-13-2013, 10:34 AM
And just to prove my point, this rediculous statement gets national media coverage... but the trial of an accused serial murderer of full term infants being born alive and subsequently decapitated with scissors doesn't.

Sorry,but apparently everybody has moved on or simply don't care as much as you do.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 10:36 AM
Kirsten Powers had better prepare her anus. The progressive lynch mob has no mercy for those who dare to defy the boot-licking agenda of the lapdog mainstream media.

baja
04-13-2013, 10:37 AM
I don't think that has anything to do with it. In fact, the media could play the racial persecution card like his defense team has. In all seriousness, this is a cold blooded serial killer with the additional scandal of a complicit department of health and state regulatory agencies. There should be wall to wall coverage of this story and yet there isn't a peep about it across the board of mainstream media. They literally broadcasted Jodi Arias live on the witness stand discussing her predilection for anal sex. There isn't a single detail about her murder trial that hasn't been discussed. Don't you find it creepy that the entire media has decided to censor itself in the hope of keeping the pro-abortion from looking bad?


If only we could figure a way to arm the unborn so when they come out of the womb they could defend themselves. What a heinous crime to the completely defenseless

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 10:38 AM
Sorry,but apparently everybody has moved on or simply don't care as much as you do.

Liberal compassion. Let me show you it.

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 10:40 AM
Sorry,but apparently everybody has moved on or simply don't care as much as you do.

Liberal media isn't "everybody."

peacepipe
04-13-2013, 10:41 AM
Speaking of selective moral outrage, you can also see it in the media's hype of Ann Coulter's comment. Martin Bashir set the whole thing off by making his own controversial comment which the media doesn't find controversial.

“But Congressman, is that what needs to happen to move these senators to stop threatening a filibuster?” Bashir asked. “Is that really what needs to happen? That you need to have a member of your family killed in order for you to do what the American people want you to do?”

Since more are killed by drunken drivers each year than are murdered by guns, perhaps what we need are people to have their family members killed by drunken drivers?

:rofl: I watched that episode,you taking this comment out of context & making it out to be controversial is hilarious.

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 10:42 AM
Kirsten Powers had better prepare her anus. The progressive lynch mob has no mercy for those who dare to defy the boot-licking agenda of the lapdog mainstream media.

Her gender may or may not protect her. It's situational, depending on who you offended and on your own place on the liberal trendy victims totem pole. Women are pretty high up there, but below blacks and gays.

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 10:43 AM
:rofl: I watched that episode,you taking this comment out of context & making it out to be controversial is hilarious.

The quotation is adequate enough. It also displays that Bashir has been taken in by the hysteria, or perhaps that he's one of them manufacturing it?

baja
04-13-2013, 10:45 AM
Sorry,but apparently everybody has moved on or simply don't care as much as you do.

Actually few are as barbaric as you, their crime is one of ignorance of the crimes. You on the other hand are no better than any other mass murderer. You and Hitler share the same level of respect for life. Does that make you proud?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 10:50 AM
The liberal media know an abortion outrage when they hear it. Sadly they only seem to hear them from the mouths of Republican candidates, and it only takes a statement to outrage the press. Can’t they find a single abortion outrage inside an abortion clinic? Such is their radicalism that nothing, absolutely nothing regarding this gruesome procedure raises their eyebrows, never mind their ire.

One emerging story proves the degree to which our “objective” media's views on abortion are dogmatic and extreme. Abortionist Kermit Gosnell is on trial in Philadelphia, and not just for killing babies outside the womb, but also for killing a mother through reckless use of anesthesia. Network TV coverage of the trial? Zero on ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, NPR, and PBS. CNN’s entire coverage seems to be one sentence from Jake Tapper on March 21...

The trial testimony is graphic, and should make “choice” advocates sick to their stomachs. Again, see the AP: “A medical assistant told a jury Tuesday that she snipped the spines of at least 10 babies during unorthodox abortions at a West Philadelphia clinic, at the direction of the clinic’s owner."

Later, AP mangled the medical facts: “Abortions are typically performed in utero.” When babies are killed over a toilet, as alleged in this trial, this is not an “unorthodox abortion” of a “fetus.” This is a baby who is born and then murdered. Liberals claim to revere “science,” but this trial is not about tiny “zygotes.” It’s about viable babies.


http://www.mrc.org/bozells-column/skipping-abortionists-house-horrors

peacepipe
04-13-2013, 11:09 AM
Actually few are as barbaric as you, their crime is one of ignorance of the crimes. You on the other hand are no better than any other mass murderer. You and Hitler share the same level of respect for life. Does that make you proud?
I don't support or condone what this one man did,but I don't believe the ultimate goal by the right is to make this national news,but to use this as a way to paint all abortions as horrific.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 11:15 AM
I don't support or condone what this one man did,but I don't believe the ultimate goal by the right is to make this national news,but to use this as a way to paint all abortions as horrific.

The mainstream media is marching in lockstep to actively censor a serial murder trial because the murders occurred at an abortion clinic. And you're perfectly fine with it. Serial murder is not newsworthy because it might hurt the progressive cause.

baja
04-13-2013, 11:30 AM
I don't support or condone what this one man did,but I don't believe the ultimate goal by the right is to make this national news,but to use this as a way to paint all abortions as horrific.


Every person on the planet should be outraged by this behavior just because they are wired that way. This is not about someone's political agenda, it should be hard wired in the brain that you don't kill your young.

If in this society you don't want children than there are plenty of ways to avoid conception. If you do conceive than you are blessed with the gift and responsibility of a child to raise. If there are societal conflicts than that is the short coming of society.

You just don't kill the child because it is inconvenient.

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 11:30 AM
Liberals claim to revere “science,” but this trial is not about tiny “zygotes.” It’s about viable babies.

Liberals only revere science they don't find threatening. Beyond that, they turn into flat earthers.

nyuk nyuk
04-13-2013, 11:32 AM
Every person on the planet should be outraged by this behavior just because they are wired that way. This is not about someone's political agenda, it should be hard wired in the brain that you don't kill your young.

If in this society you don't want children than there are plenty of ways to avoid conception. If you do conceive than you are blessed with the gift and responsibility of a child to raise. If there are societal conflicts than that is the short coming of society.

You just don't kill the child because it is inconvenient.

Actually plenty of cultures have and do. Infanticide is as old as time itself.

baja
04-13-2013, 11:39 AM
Actually plenty of cultures have and do. Infanticide is as old as time itself.

Doesn't make it right.

Name another species that kills it's young because they find their off spring inconvenient.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 11:46 AM
The thing that bothers me the most is the willful "ignorance" on the part of the health department. They pretended not to know what was going on despite the avalanche of evidence to the contrary. As stated in the grand jury report, there was a concern that any sort of inspection on Gosnell's clinic would serve to limit access to abortion services. They intentionally neglected to inspect his clinic even when multiple specific complaints were hand delivered to the Health Department by physicians. The ONLY reason he was ever busted was because of his separate narcotic pill mill raid by the DEA.

Imagine if he would have fixed a rusty bayonet to an assault rifle and performed his "operation," followed by a gunshot to the fetal skull after delivery. Same results -- perforated hollow organs to the mothers, and lethal wound to the base of the fetal skulls. How long would he have been allowed to practice? There literally would be no difference in the outcomes. Yet the politics involving the manner in which he committed murder allowed him to do so for decades, and become filthy rich in the process. This was criminal beyond the scope of imagination, and it had a willing accomplice by the regulatory agencies responsible for preventing such atrocities.

Lol. I had no idea at the time how prophetic this post was. Add a couple of mass shootings and a lockstep liberal press to the mix.

baja
04-13-2013, 11:50 AM
Lol. I had no idea at the time how prophetic this post was. Add a couple of mass shootings and a lockstep liberal press to the mix.

This is why my dog is my best friend, I don't have much use for most people. They generally disgust me.

Mecklomaniac
04-13-2013, 12:01 PM
And just to prove my point, this rediculous statement gets national media coverage... but the trial of an accused serial murderer of full term infants being born alive and subsequently decapitated with scissors doesn't.

Sorry,but apparently everybody has moved on or simply don't care as much as you do.



Clean room for whites, dirty rooms for poor and minorities. Peacepipe don't care
15 year old restrained against her will and had abortion performed. Peacepipe don't care.
Infanticide. Baby's born alive and decapitated 20minutes later. Peacepipe don't care.
Untrained, unlicensed staff including a 15 year old administering anesthesia. Patients dieing under anesthesia. Peacepipe don't care.
Multiple complaints ignored while department of health looks the other way for decades. Peacepipe don't care.
Dieing babies screaming among the discarded parts. Peacepipe don't care
Clinic staff pleading guilty to murder. Peacepipe don't care.
Routinely doing abortions after state 24 week limit. Peacepipe don't care.



Love the bleeding heart liberal compassion.

You save the whales
You save the seals
You save whatever is cute and squeals
But kill the baby fresh from the womb
Would not want no baby boom.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-13-2013, 07:24 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kq5mc_ByPmw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>/

Kirsten Powers, a liberal, points out the wall-to-wall coverage of the Carnival "poop cruise." Yet not a word about the Gosnell trial.

BroncoBeavis
04-14-2013, 05:36 AM
I don't support or condone what this one man did,but I don't believe the ultimate goal by the right is to make this national news,but to use this as a way to paint all abortions as horrific.

In all likelyhood a body count far beyond Newtown. And government policies that basically aided and abetted. Where are all our resident dosomethingers?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 07:30 AM
http://www.banderasnews.com/0608/images/tvnewsvultures.jpg

Mainstream media outside the Boulder courthouse at Ramsey trial.

http://cdn3.standard.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/max_800/2013/03/04/story-casey-anthony-bankrupgood3-183583.jpg

Mainstream media outside the Casey Anthony trial.

http://www.wltx.com/images/640/360/2/assetpool/images/130215085259_161724258.jpg

Mainstream media anxiously awaits the arrival of Carnival's Triumph, the "poop cruise."

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/gosnell-media-row2.jpg

Reserved media seats inside the courthouse while Gosnell murder trial is underway.

Requiem
04-14-2013, 07:45 AM
Media Coverage and the Gosnell Trial (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/04/kermit-gosnell-trial-about-many-thing-media-bias-isnt-one-them/64189/).

Just the facts. Not posters whining about a lack of their "values" being represented in the media, which is what we have going on here.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 07:51 AM
Media Coverage and the Gosnell Trial (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/04/kermit-gosnell-trial-about-many-thing-media-bias-isnt-one-them/64189/).

Just the facts. Not posters whining about a lack of their "values" being represented in the media, which is what we have going on here.

Not one single story on any national network about the trial. Keep ****ing that chicken, Kip.

Requiem
04-14-2013, 08:00 AM
Not one single story on any national network about the trial. Keep ****ing that chicken, Kip.

Apparently you did not read the article.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 08:05 AM
Apparently you did not read the article.

Your article is shiat because there is no explanation or excuse for a complete media blackout of a serial killer charged with decapitating newborn infants born alive and viable. None, except that liberals are afraid that a serial killer trial might cast aspersions on their cause.

Requiem
04-14-2013, 08:16 AM
Your article is shiat because there is no explanation or excuse for a complete media blackout of a serial killer charged with decapitating newborn infants born alive and viable. None, except that liberals are afraid that a serial killer trial might cast aspersions on their cause.

Right. Just like Harry Reid is afraid that being in favor of an assault weapons ban will get him voted out of office, despite the fact he is not up for re-election for quite some time. :rofl:

Read the article again and use your brain. As I said earlier, you are crying about it because you feel that your values aren't being represented in the media, despite the fact that there has been stories on this for years and with the grand jury report recently released, more facts to speculate on the issue are now available.

Of course, that just blew by you. Most things in WRP seem to.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/files/2010/07/doctor-bot-operation.jpg

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 08:23 AM
Says Kirsten Powers in her USA Today op-ed, "Let me state the obvious. This should be front page news. When Rush Limbaugh attacked Sandra Fluke, there was non-stop media hysteria. The venerable NBC Nightly News' Brian Williams intoned, 'A firestorm of outrage from women after a crude tirade from Rush Limbaugh,' as he teased a segment on the brouhaha. Yet, accusations of babies having their heads severed -- a major human rights story if there ever was one -- doesn't make the cut."

Inducing live births and subsequently severing the heads of the babies is indeed a horrific story that merits significant attention. Strange as it seems to say it, however, that understates the case.

For this isn't solely a story about babies having their heads severed, though it is that. It is also a story about a place where, according to the grand jury, women were sent to give birth into toilets; where a doctor casually spread gonorrhea and chlamydiae to unsuspecting women through the reuse of cheap, disposable instruments; an office where a 15-year-old administered anesthesia; an office where former workers admit to playing games when giving patients powerful narcotics; an office where white women were attended to by a doctor and black women were pawned off on clueless untrained staffers. Any single one of those things would itself make for a blockbuster news story. Is it even conceivable that an optometrist who attended to his white patients in a clean office while an intern took care of the black patients in a filthy room wouldn't make national headlines?]

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/why-dr-kermit-gosnells-trial-should-be-a-front-page-story/274944/

BroncoBeavis
04-14-2013, 08:25 AM
Media Coverage and the Gosnell Trial (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/04/kermit-gosnell-trial-about-many-thing-media-bias-isnt-one-them/64189/).

Just the facts. Not posters whining about a lack of their "values" being represented in the media, which is what we have going on here.
Blech.

The problem with this line of approach is there is no debate to be had about any of these questions. If one is asking "should abortion clinics be regulated and safe?" then who would possibly answer "No"? As a legal matter, these issues have all be addressed. The state may have failed in its duty to enforce the laws in the Gosnell case, but the laws are there to be enforced and no one thinks they should be taken away.

Really? This Herpderp can't connect this to any of the hotly contested debates about abortion, partial-birth abortion, fetal-viability, born-alive provisions, moment-of-personhood, underage and parental notification restrictions, or basically any restrictions whatsoever on abortion in any form? Every one of these issues is hotly and repeatedly debated. The fact is he says there's nothing to be debated only because there's nothing he wants debated. This is a better implication of his bias than anyone else could have provided.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 08:34 AM
Req made a thread a couple of days ago, where he said in a post that he wanted to show his wang to my kids. He deleted the entire thread about ten seconds after saying that. That's the kind of couchsurfer pedophile living-in-granny's-basement life's loser he is.

errand
04-14-2013, 09:06 AM
How is this any different than any other form of late term abortion?


what's even worse is that our government funds this kind of bull****......

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/38984-shocking-planned-parenthood-testimony-supports-killing-newborn-babies

errand
04-14-2013, 09:16 AM
It's also possible that the regulatory agencies are so underfunded (as they are in most states now) that the caseloads for investigators were ridiculously unmanageble.

even if that was a viable excuse, why wouldn't they start investigating the clown that had numerous complaints over 4 decades of practice?

The bottom line is they're state/federal government funded which means they don't give a flying **** about actually doing their jobs, because they'll still get paid......and yet some of you clowns want the government to fund and run our health care.

errand
04-14-2013, 09:24 AM
I just see a ****storm of major proportions coming out of this case - as there should be. Unfortunately, what often happens is the political and media storms wash away the truth, while the officials and politicians work hard to cover their own asses. At base, this guy is another ****ing Mengele, and the root cause and perpetrator of these heinous crimes. But there are probably a lot of other issues that allowed this murderer to stay in business. One might be race. Another might be his location and the economic class of his patients. Another might be the funding of regulatory agencies and investigator caseloads.

I remember a horrific foster care case in Florida a few years ago where they discovered that caseloads were so bad for social workers, that if it would take them ten years to visit all their cases at twenty a day, no matter how many complaints came in. And the focus of the media attack on that case ended up being the social worker responsible for that foster home on her caseload - not the funding, not the politicians, not the system, not the politics.

Well there is that media bias you liberals always claim doesn't exist......the media was never going to trash an incompetent government funded program


when the government gets involved in ****, it becomes a part of the budget, and sooner or later you run out of other people's money to fund their involvement, and the budget gets cut......

But we still have morons who think there won't be any problems whatsoever funding anything other government intrusion in our lives like affordable health care.

errand
04-14-2013, 09:27 AM
I'm sure the Right/Left hysteria will be part of the ****storm that drowns the facts of the case pretty quickly. Like I said.

Well for years we've been told by those on your side of the aisle that making abortion legal would prevent such "back alley" abortions from happening.....


so i guess what i'm trying to say is - "What up wit dat?"

errand
04-14-2013, 09:35 AM
Wow

i really had no idea, but as disgusting as it is, i still dont have a problem with abortion if the baby wouldnt be able to live on its own outside the mother, i would think that that with technological advances tho that age would get lower and lower each year.

im not sure that the abortion show above should be done at any age tho, yikes

Abortion is a very polarizing subject......

Amazing how we have many who point out the low % things like incest and rape and to save the life of the mother.....but when you propose that those exceptions become the only way a woman can have an abortion you're shouted down and called every derogatory name in the book.

the truth is, abortion is just another form of birth control for women who feel their lives will be inconvenienced.

errand
04-14-2013, 09:40 AM
Over population is the root problem on the planet today but abortion is not the solution.

To women that want to determine what happens to their bodies don't have unprotected sex.

This^

However laying the blame on them is not politically correct, so expect to be blasted when you do....

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 09:46 AM
This^

However laying the blame on them is not politically correct, so expect to be blasted when you do....

That's because liberalism is a religion where the central tenet is the abolishment of personal responsibility.

errand
04-14-2013, 09:49 AM
I was thinking more along the lines of abortion being the liberal sacred cow. But I see your point as well.

Exactly.....

many people put forth the argument that abortion should be legal because of the kids who will be born into poverty and end up on the wrong side of the law, etc.....

Well, let's make our stand on abortion retroactive and sever the spines of those who have already become exactly that. If a good reason for legal abortion is to prevent future losers and criminals, then let's abort the current losers and criminals.

errand
04-14-2013, 09:53 AM
Don't shoot the messenger, but you have to admit that this is a good and interesting point:


Gosnell is precisely the kind of butcher the pro-choice movement opposes. No one endorses bad medicine and unrestricted, unregulated, cowboy surgery like Gosnell practiced — what he represents is the kind of back-alley deadly hackery that the anti-choice movement would have as the only possible recourse, if they had their way. If anything, the Gosnell case is an argument for legal abortion.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/01/this_is_not_a_case_about_abort.php?utm_source=feed burner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogs%2Fpharyngula+%28 Pharyngula%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

But, abortions are legal..... and we were told numerous times that legalizing abortions would prevent this **** from happening.....so please explain why it happened?

errand
04-14-2013, 10:01 AM
**** off. Abortion is a legal medical procedure & it will always be.

Says the guy whose mother chose not to abort him.......

errand
04-14-2013, 10:09 AM
I don't support or condone what this one man did,but I don't believe the ultimate goal by the right is to make this national news,but to use this as a way to paint all abortions as horrific.

So killing another human being isn't horrific?

so what you're saying is these kids are just acceptable collateral damage so women can have abortions?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 10:11 AM
“Media Bias: A basketball coach who shoves and curses at his players merits constant coverage by a media also transfixed by Newtown. But a Philadelphia doctor on trial for murdering a woman and seven babies? It’s ignored.
Those who get their news from the three major networks have probably not heard of Dr. Kermit Gosnell, now on trial in Philadelphia, charged with seven counts of first-degree murder and one count of third-degree murder for killing seven babies who survived abortions and a woman who died after a botched pain-killer injection.
According to the Media Research Center, in one week Rice received 41 minutes, 26 seconds of air time on ABC, CBS and NBC in 36 separate news stories. Gosnell received zero coverage.

If Dr. Gosnell had walked into a nursery and shot seven infants with an AR-15, it would be national news and the subject of presidential hand-wringing.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/12/the-scathing-speech-that-takes-the-media-to-task-for-blackout-of-gruesome-abortion-trial-if-the-doctor-used-an-ar-15-you-bet-theyd-care/

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 10:17 AM
ABC has never carried that story. Not once. Neither has NBC. CBS did … back in 2011 when Gosnell was first arrested. The rest of the media landscape is an equal travesty. CNN did one story on it in 2013, even though the trial has been going on for more than three weeks. Fox has covered it more than most of its TV kin, but it has surprisingly not done a lot.
It’s OK, they’ve been too busy with basketball. Yes, ABC, CBS and NBC have spent 41 minutes and 26 seconds telling viewers about the Rutgers basketball scandal. And not a second about baby murder in Philadelphia. Of course, Rutgers Coach Mike Rice did throw basketballs at grown men, deploy “abusive behavior” and, worst of all, use “homophobic slurs.”
Gosnell’s charges seem mild by comparison. He is charged with murdering seven viable, born-alive babies “by plunging scissors into their spinal cords.” Sherry West, who worked for Gosnell, recently testified she saw an 18- to 24-inch-long newborn. “It didn't have eyes or a mouth but it was like screeching, making this noise. It was weird. It sounded like a little alien,” she told the court.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/10/monstrous-abortion-trial-that-media-dont-want-to-know-about/#ixzz2QSHU52gF

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 10:28 AM
Normally those of us in the news business love trials, the more sensational the better. Just look at the coverage of the Jodi Arias murder trial in Maricopa County, Ariz. — or earlier national obsessions with Casey Anthony and O.J. Simpson.

Which makes the media blackout of one ongoing trial a mystery. Or maybe not.

In Philadelphia, Kermit Gosnell is on trial on eight counts of murder: seven for babies he’s accused of killing with scissors after they were born, and one for a pregnant refugee who died after receiving an overdose of drugs. If true, Gosnell was running a slaughterhouse out of the Middle Ages.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/dead_silence_hAqJph4A3hjaD0imiwHgZI

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 10:31 AM
Doesn't make it right.

Name another species that kills it's young because they find their off spring inconvenient.

Name another species that can tell us why they killed their young.

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 10:34 AM
This is why my dog is my best friend, I don't have much use for most people. They generally disgust me.

I've never seen pictures of homeless humans eating off of human corpses on the banks of the Ganges River.

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 10:39 AM
I don't support or condone what this one man did,but I don't believe the ultimate goal by the right is to make this national news,but to use this as a way to paint all abortions as horrific.

Since the only way to remotely paint all abortions as horrific through this story would be to ignore that the pregnancies were very late-term, it seems to me you've got little to nothing to base this opinion on.

Besides, the liberal media is covering it up nicely, so you should feel comfortable. They're still too busy demonizing guns and gun owners due to Holmes and Lanza.

Semiautomatic rifles are used in less than 1% of gun crimes and less than 25% of mass shootings, but let's leave wet, smelly streaks on our computer chairs because these things are such a menace, killing folks left and right all the flipping time. While we're at it, in order to feel better, let's tell people to use shotguns for defense instead in spite of that shotguns kill more people every year than all types of rifles combined.

Then after that, let's take the MENSA entry test because we're certain shoe-ins.

ghwk
04-14-2013, 10:42 AM
But, abortions are legal..... and we were told numerous times that legalizing abortions would prevent this **** from happening.....so please explain why it happened?

REALLY?? This is just an idiotic post. It happened because you have a sick individual practicing within the system. Sort of like those anti gay preachers that are taking it up the pooper. How could that possibly happen?

peacepipe
04-14-2013, 10:42 AM
So killing another human being isn't horrific?

so what you're saying is these kids are just acceptable collateral damage so women can have abortions?
, abortions properly done are not horrific.

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 11:07 AM
, abortions properly done are not horrific.

Depends on how you define horrific.

ghwk
04-14-2013, 11:08 AM
That's because liberalism is a religion where the central tenet is the abolishment of personal responsibility.

You are more intelligent than this. Your posts dripping with global generalization while conclusively labeling liberalism doesn't do you credit. Or at least I hope it doesn't. Step it up and don't pander to emotional conservatism, the exact sort of thing you hate to see from us "liberals".

Requiem
04-14-2013, 11:19 AM
You are more intelligent than this. Your posts dripping with global generalization while conclusively labeling liberalism doesn't do you credit. Or at least I hope it doesn't. Step it up and don't pander to emotional conservatism, the exact sort of thing you hate to see from us "liberals".

Actually, he isn't.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 11:32 AM
Actually, he isn't.

Says the 26 year old loser going nowhere fast.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 11:46 AM
You are more intelligent than this. Your posts dripping with global generalization while conclusively labeling liberalism doesn't do you credit. Or at least I hope it doesn't. Step it up and don't pander to emotional conservatism, the exact sort of thing you hate to see from us "liberals".

Where is the handwringing emotional pleas for new regulation to prevent the slaughter of innocent children, blatant racism, and brutality against women? Actually, where is the plain reporting of any aspect of this trial on any national network?

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 11:50 AM
Says the 26 year old loser going nowhere fast.

26 now? A whole 8 years in the adult world. Imagine the accumulated knowledge.

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 11:51 AM
You are more intelligent than this. Your posts dripping with global generalization while conclusively labeling liberalism doesn't do you credit. Or at least I hope it doesn't. Step it up and don't pander to emotional conservatism, the exact sort of thing you hate to see from us "liberals".

Just wondering how often you say this to liberals on this forum? It's about 10 to 1 here in favor of liberals in terms of emotionalism and labeling.

errand
04-14-2013, 11:54 AM
, abortions properly done are not horrific.

Wow....un****ingbelievable.

baja
04-14-2013, 12:11 PM
Don't shoot the messenger, but you have to admit that this is a good and interesting point:


Gosnell is precisely the kind of butcher the pro-choice movement opposes. No one endorses bad medicine and unrestricted, unregulated, cowboy surgery like Gosnell practiced — what he represents is the kind of back-alley deadly hackery that the anti-choice movement would have as the only possible recourse, if they had their way. If anything, the Gosnell case is an argument for legal abortion.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/01/this_is_not_a_case_about_abort.php?utm_source=feed burner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogs%2Fpharyngula+%28 Pharyngula%29&utm_content=Google+Reader


Right!

"I'm one of the lucky ones that never enjoyed a day of live, I was aborted legally."

baja
04-14-2013, 12:13 PM
Depends on how you define horrific.

To whom, certainly not the killed child.

peacepipe
04-14-2013, 12:35 PM
Depends on how you define horrific.

Abortion is a legal medical procedure,obviously those who don't believe in abortion are going to have extreme views on it.

ghwk
04-14-2013, 01:15 PM
Where is the handwringing emotional pleas for new regulation to prevent the slaughter of innocent children, blatant racism, and brutality against women? Actually, where is the plain reporting of any aspect of this trial on any national network?

My post was directed solely at your generalization of liberal philosophy, nothing else. You are either getting sloppy or lazy in your old age. Either way you are too smart to be reducing a viewpoint to such general terms.

Your question about where this is in the media to me is valid, it deserves reporting in context to the degree one person committed crimes. Using it as a standard bearing argument against abortion, as some of the posters here would advocate via the lack of coverage, is disingenuous. One Dr. committed crimes, it deserves that level of coverage.

peacepipe
04-14-2013, 01:19 PM
My post was directed solely at your generalization of liberal philosophy, nothing else. You are either getting sloppy or lazy in your old age. Either way you are too smart to be reducing a viewpoint to such general terms.

Your question about where this is in the media to me is valid, it deserves reporting in context to the degree one person committed crimes. Using it as a standard bearing argument against abortion, as some of the posters here would advocate via the lack of coverage is disingenuous. One Dr. committed crimes, it deserves that level of coverage.

Rep.

TonyR
04-14-2013, 01:19 PM
I'm curious to know whay y'all think the media's motivation would be to not cover this story. You seriously think there's some sort of conspiracy here?

ghwk
04-14-2013, 01:20 PM
Just wondering how often you say this to liberals on this forum? It's about 10 to 1 here in favor of liberals in terms of emotionalism and labeling.

It was directed at Bronc solely, mainly because many of his other posts in other areas actually require a level of intelligence to often capture the humor or irony on more than one level. Right or wrong I expect more of him because he's capable, others I'm not so sure of.

With all the blathering you do towards others with differing viewpoints you hardly need my help. Also before you call me out on my supposed hypocracy why don't you check out your own.

TonyR
04-14-2013, 01:25 PM
Right!

"I'm one of the lucky ones that never enjoyed a day of live, I was aborted legally."

You seriously don't understand the point? That making abortion illegal is going to lead to more Kermit Gosnells?

W*GS
04-14-2013, 01:30 PM
I'm curious to know whay y'all think the media's motivation would be to not cover this story. You seriously think there's some sort of conspiracy here?

That's all right-wingers have left to sustain themselves - conspiracy.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 01:40 PM
My post was directed solely at your generalization of liberal philosophy, nothing else. You are either getting sloppy or lazy in your old age. Either way you are too smart to be reducing a viewpoint to such general terms.

Your question about where this is in the media to me is valid, it deserves reporting in context to the degree one person committed crimes. Using it as a standard bearing argument against abortion, as some of the posters here would advocate via the lack of coverage is disingenuous. One Dr. committed crimes, it deserves that level of coverage.

This trial is about much more than just the crimes committed by Kermit Gosnell. It is about corrupt and complicit local and state regulatory agencies who looked the other way despite decades of complaints, because the "greater good" of liberalism is served by keeping any and all abortion options open. It is about a corrupt and complicit media complex looking the other way because the "greater good" of liberalism is somehow served by an orchestrated media blackout of the trial. This "physician" murdered untold numbers of viable humans after being born alive. He trained others to do it in his absence. He brutalized untold numbers of women. He committed blatant acts of racism. Any of these stories would be wall-to-wall national news except for the fact that they took place in an abortion clinic. Does this not embarrass you as liberal?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 01:52 PM
I'm curious to know whay y'all think the media's motivation would be to not cover this story. You seriously think there's some sort of conspiracy here?

Absolutely. And you know it.

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 01:54 PM
Does this not embarrass you as liberal?

Meh, most liberals have no shame. Try another angle.

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 01:55 PM
That's all right-wingers have left to sustain themselves - conspiracy.

Then explain the coverage issue, and why even liberal journalists have pointed it out. Or is this just another "label it and bail" Wog post?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 01:56 PM
You seriously don't understand the point? That making abortion illegal is going to lead to more Kermit Gosnells?

This isn't about legal abortion. Nobody is trying to make this case about restricting legal abortion.. except for the liberal media who refuses to cover the trial for fear it might put the pro abortionists in a bad light.

chadta
04-14-2013, 01:57 PM
Using it as a standard bearing argument against abortion, as some of the posters here would advocate via the lack of coverage, is disingenuous. One Dr. committed crimes, it deserves that level of coverage.

Yet its ok to use one gun crime as an argument against guns ?

Guns serve many legal and moral purposes, abortions not so much.

Tombstone RJ
04-14-2013, 02:00 PM
The reason the media isn't covering this story is completely ideological. The media is pro-abortion and as horrendous as what this doctor was doing the media doesn't want the bigger picture exposed.

56 million abortions in the USA since Roe v Wade.

It's only a matter of time before infanticide is legalized in the USA. This doctor was killing babies and no one did a damn thing about it. Why?

TonyR
04-14-2013, 02:00 PM
...an orchestrated media blackout...

So you think the major media outlets had a conference call and said, "let's join together and not cover this story"? Or, what?

The major media outlets are owned by huge corporations that all have one major motive: profits. If they thought this story was a big seller they would have sold it. If anything, this has more to do with their "discomfort" in covering these topics more than some liberal conspiracy. Just like the media didn't cover all the lies that got us into the Iraq war. And just like the media doesn't cover the major fraud that was perpetrated by Wall St. at the start of the Great Recession. You'd think a liberal media conspiracy would be all over those topics, no? The media has no backbone. That's the issue. This has nothing to do with some liberal conspiracy. It's a good story for your right wing propaganda outlets to get people like you stirred up. But it's crap. And you should be smart enough not to fall for it.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 02:12 PM
So you think the major media outlets had a conference call and said, "let's join together and not cover this story"? Or, what?

The major media outlets are owned by huge corporations that all have one major motive: profits. If they thought this story was a big seller they would have sold it. If anything, this has more to do with their "discomfort" in covering these topics more than some liberal conspiracy. Just like the media didn't cover all the lies that got us into the Iraq war. And just like the media doesn't cover the major fraud that was perpetrated by Wall St. at the start of the Great Recession. You'd think a liberal media conspiracy would be all over those topics, no? The media has no backbone. That's the issue. This has nothing to do with some liberal conspiracy. It's a good story for your right wing propaganda outlets to get people like you stirred up. But it's crap. And you should be smart enough not to fall for it.

Riiiight. They were plenty comfortable broadcasting live testimony of Jodi Arias discussing her anal sex fetish, and the manner in which she slashed and shot her boyfriend to death. They were plenty comfortable discussing the gruesome remains in graphic detail of Caylee Anthony. We've seen wall to wall coverage of a basketball coach who throws basketballs at his players and calls them f*ggots. We had wall-to-wall national coverage including live disembarking of the poop cruisers. But not a singe mention of this trial.. not one.. on any national broadcast network. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 02:22 PM
http://www.banderasnews.com/0608/images/tvnewsvultures.jpg

http://cdn3.standard.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/max_800/2013/03/04/story-casey-anthony-bankrupgood3-183583.jpg

http://www.wltx.com/images/640/360/2/assetpool/images/130215085259_161724258.jpg

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/gosnell-media-row2.jpg

El Minion
04-14-2013, 02:23 PM
<big style="font-weight: bold;">http://www.bartcop.com/az-abortion-abuse.jpg</big>

How Politicized Abortion Threatens Clinic Safety (http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/how-politicized-abortion-threatens-clinic-safety)

Dr. Kermit Gosnell.
Image by Philadelphia Daily News, Yong Kim, File / AP

The allegations (http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/house-of-horrors-trial) against former abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell are chilling: a clinic covered in animal urine, the spinal cords of viable fetuses cut with scissors, a pregnant woman (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/19/us/philadelphia-abortion-doctors-murder-trial-opens.html?_r=0) dead. Predictably, the trial and coverage thereof have been controversial, with conservative outlets accusing (http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/04/12/kermit_gosnell_the_alleged_mass_murderer_and_the_b ored_media.html) mainstream and liberal ones of insufficiently covering it. But it's the controversial nature of abortion that makes abuses like the ones Gosnell's accused of possible in the first place.

Unlike other procedures performed by medical professionals, abortion is both heavily stigmatized and largely segregated from other forms of health care. And fear and stigma around abortion clinics (and abortion in general) can mean women don't even expect good care.

The majority (http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/how-fear-of-clinics-keeps-women-from-getting-abort) of abortions take place not in hospitals or doctors' offices, but in standalone clinics devoted to the procedure. This is largely due to controversy around abortion: Bans on federal funding for the procedure make it hard for hospitals that accept such funding to also offer abortion care, and religious hospitals may choose not to offer the procedure as a matter of faith.

The allegations against Gosnell are in no way representative of all clinics. A study (http://www.ansirh.org/_documents/library/kimport-cockrill-weitz_contraception2-2012.pdf) of women's abortion experiences found many patients were impressed with the support they received from staff there. But having to go to a separate abortion facility has real consequences for women. They may have to pass by protesters and go through security; one respondent in the same study said the clinic's secure door made her abortion "seem all the more like a secretive, shameful thing." And abortion clinics have become highly stigmatized — one abortion provider told me last year that one of her patients called a clinic "that terrible place," even though she felt she'd gotten good care there.

This stigma affects how women think they'll be treated at abortion clinics too. In a 2011 interview (http://jezebel.com/5780313/an-abortion-provider-explains-unsafe-clinics), Dr. Suzanne Poppema of Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health told me, "because women think it's a bad thing, and it's shameful, etc., they go to a clinic that looks awful, that doesn't seem professional at all, and they're not scared away. ... Women don't expect to be treated with compassion, intelligence, professionalism, and good care when they're seeking abortion care."

If the allegations against Gosnell are true, then women surely deserved far better care than they got at his clinic (if "care" is even the right word for what allegedly happened to them there). But they may not have expected it, and because of the way abortion clinics are portrayed, they may have accepted terrible conditions as normal. And low expectations may have made patients less likely to alert the media or authorities to what was going on.

The grand jury report in the Gosnell case claims that abortion clinic inspections in Pennsylvania stopped (http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf) in 1993 because a pro-abortion-rights governor, Tom Ridge, said they would put "a barrier up to women." Actually, Ridge stepped down (http://articles.philly.com/1998-07-15/news/25735546_1_hospital-quality-inspections-joint-commission) hospital inspections in his state as well, privatizing many and reducing them from once a year to every three years. So whether his decision in the case of abortion clinics was an activist one is debatable. Still, the regulation of abortion clinics is a political issue in a way that can end up hurting patients.

Some laws affecting such clinics passed in the last few years aren't aimed at ensuring good patient care at all; they're attempts to shut clinics down. Mississippi Governor Phil Bryant said (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/11/abortion-mississippi-women-clinic/1828289/) this explicitly of a law requiring physicians at his state's last clinic to have admitting privileges at local hospitals: "My goal, of course, is to shut it down." New clinic regulations (http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/virginia-health-commissioner-quits-over-to-abortio) in Virginia, stipulating things like the width of hallways, likely would not have prevented the kinds of abuses Gosnell's accused of either. The debate about clinic regulation today is typically a debate about shutting down clinics or keeping them open; it's rarely about ensuring existing clinics are safe. Integrating abortion with other medical care, and regulating it accordingly, would solve this problem.

Again, Gosnell's case is not a representative one and shouldn't be taken as an indictment of all abortion clinics. But separating abortion from other medical procedures and subjecting it to regulations that are political rather than medical creates an environment where substandard care is harder to spot — and where patients may not think they deserve anything better.

peacepipe
04-14-2013, 02:28 PM
The reason the media isn't covering this story is completely ideological. The media is pro-abortion and as horrendous as what this doctor was doing the media doesn't want the bigger picture exposed.

56 million abortions in the USA since Roe v Wade.

It's only a matter of time before infanticide is legalized in the USA. This doctor was killing babies and no one did a damn thing about it. Why?

Apparently someone did,he was arrested.
The fact that you point out 56 million abortions since roe v. Wade only proves that the agenda here is not why this story doesn't have nationwide attention but that you want to use it to attack all abortions.

ghwk
04-14-2013, 02:30 PM
Yet its ok to use one gun crime as an argument against guns ?

Guns serve many legal and moral purposes, abortions not so much.

Define against guns. Another general statement not worth crap.

ghwk
04-14-2013, 02:31 PM
The reason the media isn't covering this story is completely ideological. The media is pro-abortion and as horrendous as what this doctor was doing the media doesn't want the bigger picture exposed.

56 million abortions in the USA since Roe v Wade.

It's only a matter of time before infanticide is legalized in the USA. This doctor was killing babies and no one did a damn thing about it. Why?

Another B.S. generalized conclusion

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 02:41 PM
Certainly no discomfort in providing wall-to-wall coverage of slaughtered first graders in Newtown, CT. Somehow that was perfectly comfortable, but the Gosnell trial is so uncomfortable that it goes without a single mention on any national broadcast network.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 02:44 PM
There would have been national coverage and outcry for new legislation if Gosnell used an AR15 instead of scissors.

peacepipe
04-14-2013, 02:46 PM
Certainly no discomfort in providing wall-to-wall coverage of slaughtered first graders in Newtown, CT. Somehow that was perfectly comfortable, but the Gosnell trial is so uncomfortable that it goes without a single mention on any national broadcast network.
There was national coverage,just not as much as YOU would like.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 02:49 PM
There was national coverage,just not as much as YOU would like.

Not one singe mention of the trial on ABC, CBS, NBC, or PBS. Not one.

peacepipe
04-14-2013, 03:02 PM
Not one singe mention of the trial on ABC, CBS, NBC, or PBS. Not one.

MSNBC is where I heard about it.

TonyR
04-14-2013, 03:19 PM
But not a singe mention of this trial.. not one.. on any national broadcast network.

It was covered two years ago. I live in Delaware and it was on the front page of the paper here for weeks. For whatever reason not as big of a story now.

Requiem
04-14-2013, 03:43 PM
Says the 26 year old loser going nowhere fast.

I call it like it is. Your political diatribe is beyond pathetic. Like I said, stick to Operation and bragging online about having cool guns and money. I mean seriously, are you that empty that you feel the need to consistently indulge in self-gratification on internet forums? It is sad.

Furthermore, you don't know dick about me. The fact that you are ten years older than me and feel the need to consistently cast assumptions on my life when you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground is beyond pathetic. I do well for myself and am completely happy with where I am at in life. Sorry that I don't share your love for guns and money. Wasn't raised that way. Wait, I won't apologize for not being an abhorrent, materialistic turdball.

But please, continue your childish internet facade. You should start a "Ask A Surgeon" anything thread on 4chan's /b. Youse so smarts.

Requiem
04-14-2013, 03:45 PM
26 now? A whole 8 years in the adult world. Imagine the accumulated knowledge.

Age is a trivial measuring stick for knowledge. There are plenty of "adults" on this forum that clearly demonstrate that. However, I am not surprised you went that route. Lols.

chadta
04-14-2013, 04:04 PM
Not one singe mention of the trial on ABC, CBS, NBC, or PBS. Not one.

no metion of it at all up here, yet we saw shooting stuff for the first 15 minutes of every news hour for a month after newtown.

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 04:11 PM
Age is a trivial measuring stick for knowledge. There are plenty of "adults" on this forum that clearly demonstrate that. However, I am not surprised you went that route. Lols.

You say that lacking life experience. College teaches you how to be a liberal and get a good job if you get the right degree. You have little concept about life in the adult world, I assure you. The homeboys in the rap game call it street knowledge.

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 04:14 PM
no metion of it at all up here, yet we saw shooting stuff for the first 15 minutes of every news hour for a month after newtown.

Maybe we need more Evil White Male™ stories? First they had the non-existent Duke lacrosse team rape and then they spent the greater part of a year pretending Zimmerman was white while they manipulated the 911 call to make him sound like a growling racist. Then there was the Te'o thing until they realized the friend (dumb ****s couldn't see it coming) was homosexual and they feared news coverage may hurt gay peoples' feelings and dropped the story like a hot potato, heaven forbid. They're getting short on material here, bro. Throw them a bone!!

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 04:17 PM
It was covered two years ago. I live in Delaware and it was on the front page of the paper here for weeks. For whatever reason not as big of a story now.

The biggest hate crime spree in Denver history never made it to a single national television news network.

Think that's an amazing accident?

Think that would have been the case if the perpetrators were white instead of black and the victims black instead of white?

cutthemdown
04-14-2013, 04:35 PM
why is it ok for liberals to use stories like Sandy hook to push gun control but this story shouldnt be used to push pro life?

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 04:38 PM
why is it ok for liberals to use stories like Sandy hook to push gun control but this story shouldnt be used to push pro life?

Because liberals don't like it.

peacepipe
04-14-2013, 04:44 PM
why is it ok for liberals to use stories like Sandy hook to push gun control but this story shouldnt be used to push pro life?

I suppose cause a majority in this country support a womens right to choose. A majority also recognize that taking a persons rights is wrong.
A BG check doesn't stop a law abiding citizen from getting a gun,hence your right to own a gun is not being infringed.

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 04:50 PM
I suppose cause a majority in this country support a womens right to choose. A majority also recognize that taking a persons rights is wrong.
A BG check doesn't stop a law abiding citizen from getting a gun,hence your right to own a gun is not being infringed.

The concern with BG checks is that states such as Colorado are abusing them as a backdoor gun registration route. Obviously the 2nd was written in a time when BG checks didn't exist, so it can be argued they shouldn't apply now.

I'm still amused with that how even though more people are killed by drunken drivers than are murdered with guns, nobody is calling for BG checks on booze purchases or wanting to limit bottle size.

peacepipe
04-14-2013, 05:15 PM
The concern with BG checks is that states such as Colorado are abusing them as a backdoor gun registration route. Obviously the 2nd was written in a time when BG checks didn't exist, so it can be argued they shouldn't apply now.

I'm still amused with that how even though more people are killed by drunken drivers than are murdered with guns, nobody is calling for BG checks on booze purchases or wanting to limit bottle size.

You do need I'd to drink & there are limits to bottle size & alcohol content. Here in Florida beer can't be sold in any bottle bigger than 32 oz.

nyuk nyuk
04-14-2013, 05:27 PM
You do need I'd to drink & there are limits to bottle size & alcohol content. Here in Florida beer can't be sold in any bottle bigger than 32 oz.

And they limit how many you can buy. They also require background checks? Licensing?

TonyR
04-14-2013, 05:31 PM
Other than nyuk nyuk's belief that this is about race I've yet to see anyone posit a theory on what the mainstream media's motive would be to not cover this story.

W*GS
04-14-2013, 05:47 PM
You say that lacking life experience. College teaches you how to be a liberal and get a good job if you get the right degree. You have little concept about life in the adult world, I assure you. The homeboys in the rap game call it street knowledge.

nyuk's appearance on TV...

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7255070208/h9D8D2AB3/

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 06:20 PM
I call it like it is. Your political diatribe is beyond pathetic. Like I said, stick to Operation and bragging online about having cool guns and money. I mean seriously, are you that empty that you feel the need to consistently indulge in self-gratification on internet forums? It is sad.

Furthermore, you don't know dick about me. The fact that you are ten years older than me and feel the need to consistently cast assumptions on my life when you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground is beyond pathetic. I do well for myself and am completely happy with where I am at in life. Sorry that I don't share your love for guns and money. Wasn't raised that way. Wait, I won't apologize for not being an abhorrent, materialistic turdball.

But please, continue your childish internet facade. You should start a "Ask A Surgeon" anything thread on 4chan's /b. Youse so smarts.

Lol. You were born a loser and its only going to get worse for you over time. In fact, you should probably go the exact opposite direction with every decision you make. I was a 26 year old lifetime student posting on the Mane ten years ago too. You'll be on the polar opposite of the success spectrum in the same amount of time. Guess how I know?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 06:21 PM
Other than nyuk nyuk's belief that this is about race I've yet to see anyone posit a theory on what the mainstream media's motive would be to not cover this story.

Then you haven't read.

errand
04-14-2013, 06:22 PM
I'm curious to know whay y'all think the media's motivation would be to not cover this story. You seriously think there's some sort of conspiracy here?

Of course not.....just like I'm sure Joseph Goebbels and Pravda never had an agenda......LOL

I recall listening to the radio during the Iraqi war.....on the way into work, I heard nothing but how the US was getting their asses handed to them by the Iraqi elite Republic Guard troops....and on the way home from work I heard nothing but how we're kicking Iraq's ass and taking names.

Then I realized, on the way into work I was listening to NPR and on the way home I was listening to FOX

errand
04-14-2013, 06:28 PM
This trial is about much more than just the crimes committed by Kermit Gosnell. It is about corrupt and complicit local and state regulatory agencies who looked the other way despite decades of complaints, because the "greater good" of liberalism is served by keeping any and all abortion options open. It is about a corrupt and complicit media complex looking the other way because the "greater good" of liberalism is somehow served by an orchestrated media blackout of the trial. This "physician" murdered untold numbers of viable humans after being born alive. He trained others to do it in his absence. He brutalized untold numbers of women. He committed blatant acts of racism. Any of these stories would be wall-to-wall national news except for the fact that they took place in an abortion clinic. Does this not embarrass you as liberal?


Exactly...had this happened in a deep dark damp basement somewhere in fly over country the liberal media would be all over it like a pit bull on a Vick chew toy.

errand
04-14-2013, 06:34 PM
There would have been national coverage and outcry for new legislation if Gosnell used an AR15 instead of scissors.

Ironically, Homeland Security said that teachers should use scissors to combat a whack job with an AR-15 shooting up their school.....

errand
04-14-2013, 06:42 PM
You do need I'd to drink & there are limits to bottle size & alcohol content. Here in Florida beer can't be sold in any bottle bigger than 32 oz.

Really? They don't sell kegs?

And flashing an ID isn't the same as a background check there doofus.......

Stores may be selling alcohol to people who had previously killed or injured others in a DUI wreck or slapped their wives in a drunken rage......and isn't that why you clowns want background checks for people who purchase guns, to prevent people who have issues from acquiring them?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 06:44 PM
Exactly...had this happened in a deep dark damp basement somewhere in fly over country the liberal media would be all over it like a pit bull on a Vick chew toy.

Wall-to-wall national media coverage and outrage over Mick Vick killing and torturing dogs. But not a single peep about the Gosnell trial on any national broadcast network.

errand
04-14-2013, 06:48 PM
Lol. You were born a loser and its only going to get worse for you over time.

Ironically, this is one of the left's major arguments for abortions.....LOL

TonyR
04-14-2013, 06:56 PM
Wall-to-wall national media coverage and outrage over Mick Vick killing and torturing dogs. But not a single peep about the Gosnell trial on any national broadcast network.

And since Vick is black, there goes the Nyuk's race theory...

TonyR
04-14-2013, 06:57 PM
I recall listening to the radio during the Iraqi war.....on the way into work, I heard nothing but how the US was getting their asses handed to them by the Iraqi elite Republic Guard troops....and on the way home from work I heard nothing but how we're kicking Iraq's ass and taking names.

Then I realized, on the way into work I was listening to NPR and on the way home I was listening to FOX

And yet you still haven't figured out that the truth was somewhere in the middle...

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2013, 06:59 PM
And since Vick is black, there goes the Nyuk's race theory...

Maybe if Gosnell hung and electrocuted the newborn infants the national media might have cared?

errand
04-14-2013, 07:07 PM
And since Vick is black, there goes the Nyuk's race theory...

Well, animal cruelty trumps race in the eyes of the liberal media........though not by much, which explains why they covered him favorably in his "recovery" and repentance of his sins

ghwk
04-14-2013, 07:21 PM
no metion of it at all up here, yet we saw shooting stuff for the first 15 minutes of every news hour for a month after newtown.

Ok let's check out the coverage two years after the fact ok?

BroncoBeavis
04-14-2013, 09:22 PM
I don't believe there's a coordinated media conspiracy going on here. It's just the terror of the reality of their choice-at-any-cost dogma staring them in the face. There are only 2 possible reactions when you're confronted with the evil behind your beliefs being unveiled in front of you. You repent, or you look away.

Most chose to look away.

They know that if Dr. Gos had only performed those exact same procedures In Utero moments earlier, they'd be happily defending his right to do so. Some would even hail him as a champion of choice.

The criminal ridiculousness of their extreme positions are exposed. They want as few people to know about their shame as possible.

Fedaykin
04-14-2013, 10:57 PM
Want more of this back alley coat hanger style butchery? Keep attacking

* Comprehensive sex education
* Charity organizations that work to reduce unwanted pregnancies (e.g. planned parenthood)
* Women's health issues in general (e.g., but not limited to, health coverage for birth control, etc.)
* And yes, access to legal abortions done by competent and ethical physicians (i.e. the exact opposite of this criminal).


It ain't pro-choice advocates that enabled this monster, it's the anti-women crowd.

Fedaykin
04-14-2013, 11:04 PM
I don't believe there's a coordinated media conspiracy going on here. It's just the terror of the reality of their choice-at-any-cost dogma staring them in the face. There are only 2 possible reactions when you're confronted with the evil behind your beliefs being unveiled in front of you. You repent, or you look away.

Most chose to look away.

They know that if Dr. Gos had only performed those exact same procedures In Utero moments earlier, they'd be happily defending his right to do so. Some would even hail him as a champion of choice.

The criminal ridiculousness of their extreme positions are exposed. They want as few people to know about their shame as possible.

Do me a favor. Point out to me where inducing labor on a >24 week women, having her deliver into a toilet and then decapitating the infant is an accepted abortion procedure.

cutthemdown
04-15-2013, 01:40 AM
I suppose cause a majority in this country support a womens right to choose. A majority also recognize that taking a persons rights is wrong.
A BG check doesn't stop a law abiding citizen from getting a gun,hence your right to own a gun is not being infringed.

So even though its the same tactic because its an idea you don't agree with its wrong to do it. Wow that is not logical. The reason you give because the majority feel that way also doesn't fly. If its ok to use people being murdered to call for gun control, then its ok to point to a doctor killing babies to promote pro life. Remember pro life isnt about taking away the womans right to choose. She could have chose to not **** without protection or not have sex. She made her choice. This issue is about the rights of unborn humans and the fact they develop into people faster then liberals want to admit.

cutthemdown
04-15-2013, 01:43 AM
Also back in the day many women had no husband and the stigma of being a single mom forced them into back alleys and coat hangers. Today single moms are more accepted and there is more help for them.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-15-2013, 05:57 AM
Want more of this back alley coat hanger style butchery? Keep attacking

* Comprehensive sex education
* Charity organizations that work to reduce unwanted pregnancies (e.g. planned parenthood)
* Women's health issues in general (e.g., but not limited to, health coverage for birth control, etc.)
* And yes, access to legal abortions done by competent and ethical physicians (i.e. the exact opposite of this criminal).


It ain't pro-choice advocates that enabled this monster, it's the anti-women crowd.

Uh huh. Except for that part about the city and state regulatory agencies ignoring decades worth of hand-delivered complaints by ex-employes and surrounding physicians, so as to not be seen as limiting any sort of access to abortion. The same people who immediately hired criminal defense lawyers once the Feds busted Gosnell for his pill-mill by day operation, only to stumble upon his third-world butcher shop and started asking questions. Gosnell was enabled by the pro-abortion left for decades specifically for political reasons. Maybe you should read the grand jury report.

BroncoBeavis
04-15-2013, 06:05 AM
Do me a favor. Point out to me where inducing labor on a >24 week women, having her deliver into a toilet and then decapitating the infant is an accepted abortion procedure.

Suck out its brains first to collapse the skull and you have "partial birth abortion". After that I'm guessing the baby wouldn't care all that much about the toilet.

BroncoBeavis
04-15-2013, 06:12 AM
I suppose cause a majority in this country support a womens right to choose. A majority also recognize that taking a persons rights is wrong.
A BG check doesn't stop a law abiding citizen from getting a gun,hence your right to own a gun is not being infringed.

Look up the polling. The majority support partial birth bans. 2nd and 3rd trimester bans. In fact most people would ban abortion for economic inconvenience purposes. The only majority you can build around abortion is in cases of rape, incest, and life of the mother issues. Yet this is a tiny fragment of real world abortions.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-15-2013, 06:16 AM
There must not be any pro-life women, because being pro-life is apparently the same as being anti-women.

BroncoBeavis
04-15-2013, 06:25 AM
Want more of this back alley coat hanger style butchery? Keep attacking

* Comprehensive sex education
* Charity organizations that work to reduce unwanted pregnancies (e.g. planned parenthood)
* Women's health issues in general (e.g., but not limited to, health coverage for birth control, etc.)
* And yes, access to legal abortions done by competent and ethical physicians (i.e. the exact opposite of this criminal).


It ain't pro-choice advocates that enabled this monster, it's the anti-women crowd.

Bull****. Someone has to draw a line somewhere. And some people will choose to cross that line so they turn to the "back alley" Are you OK with third trimester partial birth abortions? If not you shouldn't be OK with choice champions basically coddling a back alley abortion operation just because any choice is a good choice.

If you are OK with it (like most of the media) then this story brings reality home. So you'll ostrich your head in the sand however long it takes for it to go away.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-15-2013, 06:42 AM
I know hundreds of physicians. My wife is an obstetrician. Neither of us knows a single person who performs elective abortions. This whole idea of "competent and ethical" physicians performing elective abortions is a myth. It requires a physician with at best a moral flexibility that can get past the first rule of medicine -- do no harm. In practical terms it very likely involves a physician who is incapable of making a living in a normal practice.

Fedaykin
04-15-2013, 06:45 AM
Bull****. Someone has to draw a line somewhere.


A line was drawn, and crossed. That's why... drumroll .. his actions are referred to as illegal and he's being prosecuted.


And some people will choose to cross that line so they turn to the "back alley" Are you OK with third trimester partial birth abortions? If not you shouldn't be OK with choice champions basically coddling a back alley abortion operation just because any choice is a good choice.

If you are OK with it (like most of the media) then this story brings reality home. So you'll ostrich your head in the sand however long it takes for it to go away.


I'm quite happy this person has been stopped.

Fedaykin
04-15-2013, 06:48 AM
Suck out its brains first to collapse the skull and you have "partial birth abortion". After that I'm guessing the baby wouldn't care all that much about the toilet.

.. which is illegal.

BroncoBeavis
04-15-2013, 07:00 AM
.. which is illegal.

Tell it to these guys.
http://www.prochoice.org/tillerblog/2009/06/remembering-naf-member-dr-george-tiller.html

BroncoBeavis
04-15-2013, 07:05 AM
I know hundreds of physicians. My wife is an obstetrician. Neither of us knows a single person who performs elective abortions. This whole idea of "competent and ethical" physicians performing elective abortions is a myth. It requires a physician with at best a moral flexibility that can get past the first rule of medicine -- do no harm. In practical terms it very likely involves a physician who is incapable of making a living in a normal practice.

Dr Evil wasn't even an OBGYN. In any medical setting other than a state-abetted butcher shop this guy would have been shut down in months if not weeks. Instead the allegations stacked up for decades. And went uninvestigated in the holy name of choice.

Fedaykin
04-15-2013, 07:11 AM
Tell it to these guys.
http://www.prochoice.org/tillerblog/2009/06/remembering-naf-member-dr-george-tiller.html


You disagree late term abortions even if they are medically indicated huh? (which is what Tiller did -- in accordance with staunchly conservative Kansas state law even)

And you have the cajones to claim others have an "extreme" position?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-15-2013, 07:16 AM
Gosnell would still be in business today if not for his narcotic distribution practice. It is the only reason he was ever stopped... Because the Feds asked the Philly department of health "uh, WTF is up with this?" To which the Philly DOH invoked the fifth amendment and lawyered up.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-15-2013, 07:18 AM
You disagree late term abortions even if they are medically indicated huh? (which is what Tiller did -- in accordance with staunchly conservative Kansas state law even)

And you have the cajones to claim others have an "extreme" position?

Name a medical indication for killing a viable fetus. I'm truly interested.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-15-2013, 07:27 AM
Still waiting to hear about a medical indication that requires terminating the life of a viable fetus along with pregnancy, vs just terminating pregnancy by way of induced labor or cesarean section. I suspect there isn't one.

Fedaykin
04-15-2013, 07:29 AM
Name a medical indication for killing a viable fetus. I'm truly interested.

You deny that there are valid reasons to terminate a pregnancy even when the fetus is "legally" defined as "viable"?

TonyR
04-15-2013, 07:29 AM
I don't believe there's a coordinated media conspiracy going on here. It's just the terror of the reality of their choice-at-any-cost dogma staring them in the face. There are only 2 possible reactions when you're confronted with the evil behind your beliefs being unveiled in front of you. You repent, or you look away.

Most chose to look away.

They know that if Dr. Gos had only performed those exact same procedures In Utero moments earlier, they'd be happily defending his right to do so. Some would even hail him as a champion of choice.

The criminal ridiculousness of their extreme positions are exposed. They want as few people to know about their shame as possible.

Agree with the bold part. The rest is just silly. First, if true, how do you explain the fact that this story was reported two years ago when Gosnell's practice was first discovered and charged? Second, you keep acting like the media is one person. The media is made up of thousands of people generally controlled by huge corporations. Every one of these people doesn't hold the same "extreme position".

And again, this is a case for legality, not against. I know that's hard for some of you to grasp, but it's really very simple despite being counterintuitive at first glance. There have been at least two articles posted in this thread explaining it. Illegality will lead to more Gonsells, not fewer. This is one of the primary reasons about half of the country is pro choice. You need to set aside your emotions for a moment and use reason.

TonyR
04-15-2013, 07:33 AM
Still waiting to hear about...

Still waiting to hear more about this "orchestrated media blackout" (your exact words) and how that works. Oh, and also what the media's motivation is for this blackout. Who's the man behind the curtain pulling all the levers?!?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-15-2013, 07:58 AM
You deny that there are valid reasons to terminate a pregnancy even when the fetus is "legally" defined as "viable"?

Nope. Pregnancy can be terminated for medical reasons, and it happens all the time by way of induced labor or cesarean for a variety of valid medical indications. My question is what is the indication for terminating the life of a viable fetus as well?

Fedaykin
04-15-2013, 07:59 AM
Nope. Pregnancy can be terminated for medical reasons, and it happens all the time by way of induced labor or cesarean for a variety of valid medical indications. My question is what is the indication for terminating the life of a viable fetus as well?

What do you consider viable? 24 weeks?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-15-2013, 08:08 AM
Still waiting to hear more about this "orchestrated media blackout" (your exact words) and how that works. Oh, and also what the media's motivation is for this blackout. Who's the man behind the curtain pulling all the levers?!?

Keep holding your breath. Or read.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-15-2013, 08:52 AM
What do you consider viable? 24 weeks?

Fetal maturity sufficient to allow survival into the neonatal period and later achieve independent status given the availability of requisite technological support.

BroncoBeavis
04-15-2013, 09:00 AM
Agree with the bold part. The rest is just silly. First, if true, how do you explain the fact that this story was reported two years ago when Gosnell's practice was first discovered and charged? Second, you keep acting like the media is one person. The media is made up of thousands of people generally controlled by huge corporations. Every one of these people doesn't hold the same "extreme position".

Funny thing is your second question answers your first. No blackout in a large market is 100%. Too many different wildcards and variables. It would be impossible for some article somewhere to not be published on some media company's website or print section ZZ. But let's be honest. Pointing to one article back-paged a couple years ago in regards to possibly the greatest known mass murder in (civil) American history does little to resolve the problem.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQD1Z80gxLhwZQPQAp7sR_8ulJqEjgAg hte9F8IBl5PQ6cd-4th

Not to mention responsible parties at major news outlets saying things like "it's just a local crime story"
Where's our Presidentially-declared National Moment of Healing? This is Sandy Hook x10+. Where's the front page headline?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZOkDcBpFp2x2B5rRn0g2zNnVicuMXH SD_PQmhYCmO_ctyAaLKhttp://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/16/sandy_hook_elementary_school_shooting_adam_lanza_u sed_semiautomatic_rifle/1355665572225.jpg.CROP.article568-large.jpg

Show me anything remotely similar. Truth of the matter is, the MSM is known and and accepted to be 80-90% left of center (and likely pro-choice to the same extent) Any intellectual culture that homogeneous tends towards groupthink and the shunning of non-consensus ideas. Finding a couple years-old examples and not much else does nothing but prove the exception to the beyond-obvious rule.

And again, this is a case for legality, not against. I know that's hard for some of you to grasp, but it's really very simple despite being counterintuitive at first glance. There have been at least two articles posted in this thread explaining it. Illegality will lead to more Gonsells, not fewer. This is one of the primary reasons about half of the country is pro choice. You need to set aside your emotions for a moment and use reason.

Legalizing late-term murder might lead to less of it? Please go on. Tell me more.