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View Full Version : Probably won't happen hear me out tho Texans and Broncos possible trade ? Elvis for Mario?


KevinJames
01-18-2011, 06:10 PM
Swap Elvis Dumervil for Mario Williams

Why: Were switching to a 4-3 Mario Williams is a better 4-3 end and Texans are switching to a 3-4 which Dumervil had his most productive season in. Who knows how Mario will do in a 3-4 just because hes a great 4-3 end doesn't mean he will fit at OLB look at Kampman's situation with GB before landing in Jax.


question is would you do it?
I like Doom a lot but if we are switching to a 4-3 it be hard to turn this down even tho I think Doom will do just fine in a 4-3

Bigdawg26
01-18-2011, 06:13 PM
I would do it, but it's highly unlikely it will happen!

GoBroncos84
01-18-2011, 06:14 PM
Swap Elvis Dumervil for Mario Williams

Why: Were switching to a 4-3 Mario Williams is a better 4-3 end and Texans are switching to a 3-4 which Dumervil had his most productive season in.


question is would you do it?
I like Doom a lot but if we are switching to a 4-3 it be hard to turn this down even tho I think Doom will do just fine in a 4-3

I doubt the Texans would do this trade, but if they offered it straight up and we are switching to a 4-3 we would be crazy not to do it. Love Doom, but Mario is a more complete player.

footstepsfrom#27
01-18-2011, 06:14 PM
Let's swap Orton for Peyton while we're at it. ;D

OBF1
01-18-2011, 06:14 PM
I love blackberry cobbler

Rashomon
01-18-2011, 06:14 PM
Swap Elvis Dumervil for Mario Williams

Why: Were switching to a 4-3 Mario Williams is a better 4-3 end and Texans are switching to a 3-4 which Dumervil had his most productive season in.


question is would you do it?
I like Doom a lot but if we are switching to a 4-3 it be hard to turn this down even tho I think Doom will do just fine in a 4-3

Denver should do that in a heartbeat, and Houston should fire their GM for making a historically bad trade. Give up the first pick in the draft for an undersized player coming off a major injury that may impact his future effectiveness. ROFL!

KevinJames
01-18-2011, 06:18 PM
Let's swap Orton for Peyton while we're at it. ;D

Not even the same

Mario has only 5 more sacks than Elvis and they were drafted in the same season but Elvis didn't play this year obviously so Mario has gotten one more full year on him so I think Elvis would most certainly have more career sacks at this point.

baja
01-18-2011, 06:22 PM
Houston's fan base would kill them.

You think McD took shiit for the NE connection imagine what they'd be saying about Kubes in Houston.

primetime714
01-18-2011, 06:23 PM
I don't get why everyone thinks Doom is a 3-4 guy. Most of his sacks in 2009 were when he lined up in the 3 point stance which is exactly what he'd do every play in a 4-3. I think he did so well in 2009 because Nolan knew how best to utilize him. The fact that they used a base 3-4 had very little to do with it.

KevinJames
01-18-2011, 06:24 PM
Houston's fan base would kill them.

You think McD took shiit for the NE connection imagine what they'd be saying about Kubes in Houston.

Either way Kubes is gonna be roasted because Mario Williams simply does not fit right in a 3-4.

I don't get why everyone thinks Doom is a 3-4 guy. Most of his sacks in 2009 were when he lined up in the 3 point stance which is exactly what he'd do every play in a 4-3. I think he did so well in 2009 because Nolan knew how best to utilize him. The fact that they used a base 3-4 had very little to do with it.

of course he had more sacks in that stance, because they were mostly on third downs when most sacks occur, and your not going to be in a basic 3-4 look with Doom standing up very much on that down, so I think the numbers are a bit skewed, he still brought plenty of pressure on 1st and 2nd down if a pass were called while he was standing up playing LB.

~Crash~
01-18-2011, 06:24 PM
Denver should do that in a heartbeat, and Houston should fire their GM for making a historically bad trade. Give up the first pick in the draft for an undersized player coming off a major injury that may impact his future effectiveness. ROFL!

did I miss the injury that you are talking about ? tell me what is Carrier threating ?

~Crash~
01-18-2011, 06:25 PM
by the way hell no I will keep Dvile

baja
01-18-2011, 06:26 PM
Either way Kubes is gonna be roasted because Mario Williams simply does not fit right in a 3-4.Dude your idea is silly, sorry.

KevinJames
01-18-2011, 06:28 PM
Dude your idea is silly, sorry.

Might be silly to you but it makes sense, you will see im sure Doom will be fine in a 4-3 we know this from the past but I don't know that you can say the same for a 6-6 300 lb defensive end going to a 3-4.

WABronco
01-18-2011, 06:32 PM
Errrrrr. Come on now. Mario is a complete player. I'm sure they'll find a way to work him in to a 3-4...

TDmvp
01-18-2011, 06:33 PM
In madden , If you play the 3-4 with Doom at a LB he is a 94ish , If you play a 4-3 and move him back to a end he's a 99 ...
Hilarious!

The MVPlaya
01-18-2011, 06:34 PM
I don't get why everyone thinks Doom is a 3-4 guy. Most of his sacks in 2009 were when he lined up in the 3 point stance which is exactly what he'd do every play in a 4-3. I think he did so well in 2009 because Nolan knew how best to utilize him. The fact that they used a base 3-4 had very little to do with it.

Thank you, someone other than me noticed this. I've said this 100 times already, all but 1-2 sacks from 09 were when he lined up with 4 dlineman.

However primetime, the reports were that he greatly improved his run defense for the 2010 season...

maven
01-18-2011, 06:37 PM
question is would you do it?


Why would they do it?

primetime714
01-18-2011, 06:50 PM
of course he had more sacks in that stance, because they were mostly on third downs when most sacks occur, and your not going to be in a basic 3-4 look with Doom standing up very much on that down, so I think the numbers are a bit skewed, he still brought plenty of pressure on 1st and 2nd down if a pass were called while he was standing up playing LB.

That's fair. Still the point I was trying to make is that his play certainly doesn't suffer when he plays up on the line as a DE and in fact you could make an argument that he is better suited for that type of role.

bronco0608
01-18-2011, 06:58 PM
It makes a lot of sense to me if we do move to a 4-3. Is there any official confirmation of that?

Mario Williams would essentially be wasted as a 3-4 DT in the fact that he is not an interior guy, and his best ability is coming from the outside.

Very interesting thread. In the end, I would be happy with either one. A no lose situation to me.

KevinJames
01-18-2011, 07:33 PM
It makes a lot of sense to me if we do move to a 4-3. Is there any official confirmation of that?

Mario Williams would essentially be wasted as a 3-4 DT in the fact that he is not an interior guy, and his best ability is coming from the outside.

Very interesting thread. In the end, I would be happy with either one. A no lose situation to me.

nothing official but we are interested in Jim Mora who always runs a 4-3 and our HC is Fox who ran a 4-3 in Carolina, and the fact that most college players already know the 4-3 grew up in the 4-3 same with some free agents we will pursue all indications point to 4-3 but nothing official yet.

I know were a 3-4 team but its going to be easier and a much smoother transition to switch to a 4-3 than it was for us to go to 3-4 from a 4-3.

That's fair. Still the point I was trying to make is that his play certainly doesn't suffer when he plays up on the line as a DE and in fact you could make an argument that he is better suited for that type of role.

Maybe, but hes a smaller DE in that role may hurt us in the run game, and he might wear down against bigger OL, who I didn't sense much of that in previous years where we ran the 4-3 so who knows

Wes Mantooth
01-18-2011, 08:45 PM
I hate made up theories or thoughts not substantiated by the slightest thread of evidence.

DomCasual
01-18-2011, 08:46 PM
Let's swap Orton for Peyton while we're at it. ;D

Here we go with the Hillis stuff again! ;)

alkemical
01-18-2011, 08:50 PM
Swap Elvis Dumervil for Mario Williams

Why: Were switching to a 4-3 Mario Williams is a better 4-3 end and Texans are switching to a 3-4 which Dumervil had his most productive season in. Who knows how Mario will do in a 3-4 just because hes a great 4-3 end doesn't mean he will fit at OLB look at Kampman's situation with GB before landing in Jax.


question is would you do it?
I like Doom a lot but if we are switching to a 4-3 it be hard to turn this down even tho I think Doom will do just fine in a 4-3



I'd tell you to stick with your day job, but your movies aren't very good either.

Ratboy
01-18-2011, 10:06 PM
I'd tell you to stick with your day job, but your movies aren't very good either.

This never gets old. ROFL! ROFL!

Ratboy
01-18-2011, 10:09 PM
It makes a lot of sense to me if we do move to a 4-3. Is there any official confirmation of that?

Mario Williams would essentially be wasted as a 3-4 DT in the fact that he is not an interior guy, and his best ability is coming from the outside.

Very interesting thread. In the end, I would be happy with either one. A no lose situation to me.


I would say yes, there is confirmation.

Fox drew up his defense on the white board.

SimonFletcher73
01-19-2011, 03:08 AM
http://images.chron.com/photos/2009/09/13/18295155/600xPopupGallery.jpghttp://images.forbes.com/media/2010/12/10/1210_elvis-dumervil_390x220.jpg

KevinJames
01-19-2011, 04:04 AM
I'd tell you to stick with your day job, but your movies aren't very good either.

damn you didn't like grown ups?

The MVPlaya
01-19-2011, 04:08 AM
Are people serious right now?

Mario > Elvis

broncogary
01-19-2011, 04:59 AM
You would be so unhappy if this trade happened. Mario Williams looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane. He has no motor.

Dumervil is the exact opposite. He energizes the entire defense and makes the other players better. We need more Dumervil's and less Mario (DJ) Williams.

BroncoInferno
01-19-2011, 05:49 AM
Dumervil will be fine in the 4-3. The increased sacks in 2009 had zero to do with 3-4 versus 4-3 and everything to do with Nolan finding a way to best utilize him. As has already been mentioned, most of his sacks in 2009 came out of the 3 point stance. It doesn't matter that we are probably going back to the 4-3...the key will be the defensive coaches utilizing him properly. With Fox running the show, I'm confident that will happen.

alkemical
01-19-2011, 06:48 AM
Dumervil will be fine in the 4-3. The increased sacks in 2009 had zero to do with 3-4 versus 4-3 and everything to do with Nolan finding a way to best utilize him. As has already been mentioned, most of his sacks in 2009 came out of the 3 point stance. It doesn't matter that we are probably going back to the 4-3...the key will be the defensive coaches utilizing him properly. With Fox running the show, I'm confident that will happen.

The only real question I have with Elvis, is how his Pec injury will effect him playing on the line, as opposed to off the line.

baja
01-19-2011, 06:53 AM
The only real question I have with Elvis, is how his Pec injury will effect him playing on the line, as opposed to off the line.

My concern is that because of his freakishly long arms and the pressure due to leverge that he will be susceptible to pectoral muscle tears throughout his career.

Dedhed
01-19-2011, 07:02 AM
I don't get why everyone thinks Doom is a 3-4 guy. Most of his sacks in 2009 were when he lined up in the 3 point stance which is exactly what he'd do every play in a 4-3.

The 3-point stance take is laughable to me. The fact that he put his hand on the ground means very little in comparison to the scheme.

He had 5 more sacks than in any other year in his first year in a 3-4 scheme, and was less of a liability in the run game.

TheReverend
01-19-2011, 07:04 AM
I'm stunned no one thought of this yet.

Then let's trade Marcus Thomas for Ngata, Mays for Willis, Hill for Polamalu, Cox for Revis and we could be right back in the thick of things!

beanerbronco
01-19-2011, 07:05 AM
did I miss the injury that you are talking about ? tell me what is Carrier threating ?

Really? Not quite sure if serious...

2KBack
01-19-2011, 07:06 AM
I'm stunned no one thought of this yet.

Then let's trade Marcus Thomas for Ngata, Mays for Willis, Hill for Polamalu, Cox for Revis and we could be right back in the thick of things!

Do we have enough 7th rounders to throw in? Some of these trades aren't quite even.

TheReverend
01-19-2011, 07:06 AM
The 3-point stance take is laughable to me. The fact that he put his hand on the ground means very little in comparison to the scheme.

He had 5 more sacks than in any other year in his first year in a 3-4 scheme, and was less of a liability in the run game.

...and the guy designing that scheme is long gone. This year, Nolan had an undrafted ex CFL player leading the league in sacks for the majority of the season and finishing with 14.

TheReverend
01-19-2011, 07:07 AM
Do we have enough 7th rounders to throw in? Some of these trades aren't quite even.

Good point, better trade out of #2 overall and start stock piling 7ths

BroncoInferno
01-19-2011, 07:09 AM
The 3-point stance take is laughable to me. The fact that he put his hand on the ground means very little in comparison to the scheme.

He had 5 more sacks than in any other year in his first year in a 3-4 scheme, and was less of a liability in the run game.

As Fox himself said, you are really talking about semantics with 3-4 versus 4-3, and it is all about spacing. Fox isn't stupid. He will watch the film and find the best way to utilize Doom. And people saying "he was less a problem in the run game" is just a meme floating around the Mane. The average fan has no clue if this is the case or not, it's just something people say. People act like he was a nonfactor or something in the 4-3. It's ridiculous.

CEH
01-19-2011, 07:14 AM
Mario for our #2?

Houston can get Peterson (a need and best player for them) and then at #11 they can get a OLber

If he had 3 years left maybe. Won't happen

Mario is in his last year at $13MM.

Dedhed
01-19-2011, 07:20 AM
As Fox himself said, you are really talking about semantics with 3-4 versus 4-3, and it is all about spacing. Fox isn't stupid. He will watch the film and find the best way to utilize Doom. And people saying "he was less a problem in the run game" is just a meme floating around the Mane. The average fan has no clue if this is the case or not, it's just something people say. People act like he was a nonfactor or something in the 4-3. It's ridiculous.
The 3 point stance take is more of a mane meme than the 3-4 playing to Doom's strengths is.

Semantics or not, Doom led the NFL in sacks playing in a 3-4. He did not do so playing in a 4-3. BTW, I have in no way even alluded to the idiotic notion that Doom is a non-factor in a 4-3.

Dedhed
01-19-2011, 07:21 AM
...and the guy designing that scheme is long gone. This year, Nolan had an undrafted ex CFL player leading the league in sacks for the majority of the season and finishing with 14.

That's true, and I am hopeful that a defensive coach like Fox will be able to utilize Doom as effectively as Nolan was able to.

BroncoInferno
01-19-2011, 07:24 AM
The 3 point stance take is more of a mane meme than the 3-4 playing to Doom's strengths is.

Well, no. That's actually a verifiable fact. The run defense business is just something people say. I'm not saying he's great at it, but his weakness in that regard gets way overblown.

Semantics or not, Doom led the NFL in sacks playing in a 3-4. He did not do so playing in a 4-3. BTW, I have in no way even alluded to the idiotic notion that Doom is a non-factor in a 4-3.

12.5 sacks (his high in the 4-3) is hardly anything to sneeze at. How do you know the extra 5 sacks in 2009 had anything to do with the 3-4 versus 4-3? Can you give a schematic breakdown? Maybe he just had his best year to date regardless of scheme?

Mr. Elway
01-19-2011, 12:12 PM
The 3-point stance take is laughable to me.

Here's what I think people are talking about with the 3-pt-stance argument: Pointing out that he got most of his sacks from a 3-pt stance is just saying that it's not the 3-4 specifically that helped him, but rather that much of the time when he had success, he was lined up the same way that he would be most of the time anyway in the 4-3. As someone else said, 12.5 sacks in the 4-3 was a highly productive season also. You're not gonna get 17 each and every year even from the best pass rusher.

I personally think he is equally effective in both, given that the coordinator plans the entire defense to his strength - getting to the QB. I think that's what we need in our defense - solid players all around, and one or two stars, and a DC who knows how to play to the strength of those stars. We need better DL play to maximize Elvis' effectiveness.

Bronco Boy
01-19-2011, 12:16 PM
Maybe we can throw in Lloyd for Andre Johnson to sweeten this trade!!!