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View Full Version : Riddle me this: Where were our coverage sacks?


Que
01-17-2011, 02:04 PM
I feel compelled to ask this question after watching the Pats - Jets game last night. Granted, it was just one game and Brady looked confused for most of it. But after hearing Simms go on and on and on about how almost every sack was a coverage sack, I had to ask myself, where were our coverage sacks the last couple of years?

Perhaps I am a homer but I thought we had a pretty darn good secondary the last couple of years talent wise. Yet, despite not having a pass rush we routinely would end up getting burnt when the QB had all day back there. Last night, on some plays Brady could have made himself a ham sandwich yet would end up taking a sack or one hopping the ball despite having all the time in the world. No one was open or open for any length of time to deliver a non-timing route pass.

So why didn't we get those sorts of coverage sacks? I suspect the answer is a little bit of everything but these are some of the things that I came up with both from a talent and X's and O's perspective.

1. Our secondary talent isn't what I thought it was
2. The Jets secondary is otherworldly
3. We were rushing 4 or 5 guys and still not getting any pass rush while the Jets were rushing only 3 and dropping 8 guys into coverage
4. The Jets LB's can cover, ours can't
5. The Pats just got out game planned and weren't ready for the defensive schemes the Jets put together
6. There was something inherently wrong/different with our defensive schemes. Is this a zone vs. man thing?
7. Gisele is withholding sex again and the worms were driving Brady crazy

PRBronco
01-17-2011, 02:06 PM
Because we didn't spend enough high first rounders on cornerbacks! Pewpewpew!

TDmvp
01-17-2011, 02:06 PM
Perhaps I am a homer but I thought we had a pretty darn good secondary the last couple of years talent wise.


No ... No we didn't ... Some of the worst safety play I have ever seen , Dawk was a bust and besides Champ I doubt any of our other starting DB's start for any other team.

peacepipe
01-17-2011, 02:08 PM
Champ is the only shut down corner we have,everyoneelse is serviceable at best.

bendog
01-17-2011, 02:08 PM
our pass rush is so bad, it can't even get coverage sacks (cymbol crash)

Missouribronc
01-17-2011, 02:08 PM
Oh. My. God. Our front seven is terrible.

We have two pieces. D.J. Williams at WLB and Dumervil at RE.

We need: MLB, SLB, DT, DT, LE...and we might need a safety, oh, and a corner, too (if Champ leaves).

Maybe Ayers can be a good LE, and maybe Marcus Thomas at DT, but that still leaves four pieces in the front seven. Oh, it's sooo ugly.

bendog
01-17-2011, 02:09 PM
our pass rush is so bad, brady quinn looked like joe montana in practice

bendog
01-17-2011, 02:09 PM
our pass rush is so bad, elvis dummerville wore a sack over his head

broncocalijohn
01-17-2011, 02:10 PM
our pass rush is so bad, it can't even get coverage sacks (cymbol crash)

ahhh, that isnt a joke, that is the truth.

peacepipe
01-17-2011, 02:10 PM
Oh. My. God. Our front seven is terrible.

We have two pieces. D.J. Williams at WLB and Dumervil at RE.

We need: MLB, SLB, DT, DT, LE...and we might need a safety, oh, and a corner, too (if Champ leaves).

Maybe Ayers can be a good LE, and maybe Marcus Thomas at DT, but that still leaves four pieces in the front seven. Oh, it's sooo ugly.Jets have a good front seven & brady still had all day to throw the ball.

WolfpackGuy
01-17-2011, 02:10 PM
Ryan did a good job of mixing it up, and the Jets can freakin tackle.

They got to Brady early and that seemed to stay in his mind throughout the game.

I also noticed they didn't blitz as often in long yardage.

frerottenextelway
01-17-2011, 02:11 PM
More than anything IMO, it was Brady playing bad (3rd playoff game in a row for him).

They played up the coverage sacks, but it looked to me that there were throws that should've been made from a quarterback that is considered as good as he is.

Also, our linebackers and scheme did not help. And old man Dawkins.

elsid13
01-17-2011, 02:14 PM
Jets have a good front seven & brady still had all day to throw the ball.

Ryan drop a lot of the defenders into mid range coverage and forced Brady to wait. The Patriots really missed Moss yesterday because he force defenders to cover more of the field opening up the underneath routes.

Kaylore
01-17-2011, 02:16 PM
our pass rush is so bad, elvis dummerville wore a sack over his head

Our pass rush is so bad it's called a pass slow. /rimshot

peacepipe
01-17-2011, 02:17 PM
jets ran a 3-3-5 scheme.

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 02:17 PM
Yeah...but at least the corners aren't dropping 10 yards off the receiver any longer. Our secondary is woeful, and woefully under prepared for teams with 1) big receivers, and 2) more than 1 or 2 good ones.

The new offensive formations with multiple receiver sets place a premium on having great depth in the secondary. We don't even have adequate starters, and if we move Champ to safety, which I think we should, we're even more short handed. Bottom line is it's going to take 3 years to rebuild this team's defense to where we want it to be.

Missouribronc
01-17-2011, 02:18 PM
jets ran a 3-3-5 scheme.

The Jets run every formation you could possibly dream up.

peacepipe
01-17-2011, 02:19 PM
The Jets run every formation you could possibly dream up.yes they do but they came out with a 3-3-5 last night.

bendog
01-17-2011, 02:19 PM
The Jets run every formation you could possibly dream up.

They play footsie.

enjolras
01-17-2011, 04:01 PM
*MIGHT* need a safety? Jesus we need two. The worst position on our defense, by a MILE, is at Safety. It's a position that I rank as much more important that corner, and we are god awful at it.

My defensive priorities:

1) Safety (both strong and free)
2) Middle linebacker
3) Defensive tackle
4) Outside linebacker
5) Defensive end
6) Maybe a corner if someone comes your way.

Resign champ. I think Parrish Cox played far better than anyone on this board wants to give him credit for. The kid is a good player on a really bad defense. Thompson is just fine at the nickel back position.

I think the interior of our defensive line is going to be ok next year. Dumervil and Ayers coming off the edge should be relatively effective. I like DJ at the weakside.. I like Joe Mays alot, but I'm not sure he has the speed to play middle linebacker.

We have some pieces, but my god find us a safety.

Que
01-17-2011, 04:05 PM
We have some pieces, but my god find us a safety.

Which I think is interesting since safety is something that seems to be far down on everyone's "top needs" list. I don't know all that much about AJ Hawk but is he a free agent this year? Any other FA's that are worth a gander?

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 04:08 PM
*MIGHT* need a safety? Jesus we need two. The worst position on our defense, by a MILE, is at Safety. It's a position that I rank as much more important that corner, and we are god awful at it.

My defensive priorities:

1) Safety (both strong and free)
2) Middle linebacker
3) Defensive tackle
4) Outside linebacker
5) Defensive end
6) Maybe a corner if someone comes your way.

Resign champ. I think Parrish Cox played far better than anyone on this board wants to give him credit for. The kid is a good player on a really bad defense. Thompson is just fine at the nickel back position.

I think the interior of our defensive line is going to be ok next year. Dumervil and Ayers coming off the edge should be relatively effective. I like DJ at the weakside.. I like Joe Mays alot, but I'm not sure he has the speed to play middle linebacker.

We have some pieces, but my god find us a safety.
Parrish Cox might be in jail and there's no guarantee Champ will re-sign. Our other CB's are either inexperienced or on the downside of their careers. If you want a great safety, let's draft Peterson and let Champ move to safety. He'd be amazing at FS patrolling like a center fielder back there. He can also mentor Peterson...how awesome would that be? On top of that we get instant special teams production from a spot we've been searching to fill for years.

Tombstone RJ
01-17-2011, 05:36 PM
No ... No we didn't ... Some of the worst safety play I have ever seen , Dawk was a bust and besides Champ I doubt any of our other starting DB's start for any other team.

Yep, Dawkins was just god aweful in coverage. Love the guy but he's not able to cover a TE let alone a WR.

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 05:42 PM
Our safety play is utterly terrible when it comes to pass coverage. As are our LBs.

Vegas_Bronco
01-17-2011, 06:11 PM
We wil have a defense for sure next year...they are already looking to restructure contracts and get some quality safeties in FA:

Here are some top targets that I know Xanders wants:
Peterson LB - Falcons
Mikell S - Eagles
Pool S - Jets
Harper S - Saints
Taylor CB - Steelers
Rudd LB - Bucca...should they be dumb enuff to let him go
Johnson DE - Panthers...Fox should mean we get at least 3 of their FAs.
Wiiliams RB - Panthers...the most likely FA signing this offseason!

OrangeSe7en
01-17-2011, 06:16 PM
A lot of it was scheming that confused Brady. Then you add to the fact that they did get pressure on him, and Brady started hearing footsteps even when he had time because he was confused by scheme.

Cito Pelon
01-17-2011, 06:21 PM
We wil have a defense for sure next year...they are already looking to restructure contracts and get some quality safeties in FA:

Here are some top targets that I know Xanders wants:
Peterson LB - Falcons
Mikell S - Eagles
Pool S - Jets
Harper S - Saints
Taylor CB - Steelers
Rudd LB - Bucca...should they be dumb enuff to let him go
Johnson DE - Panthers...Fox should mean we get at least 3 of their FAs.
Wiiliams RB - Panthers...the most likely FA signing this offseason!

Man, this D needs all the impact they can get. They need those FA's and some draft picks. The safety position is a particular need for sure.

TheReverend
01-17-2011, 07:24 PM
1. We haven't been able to cover a TE consistently since Sam Brandon and the big nickel went down with him. Thanks "athletic" linebackers!

2. Goodman sucks. Seriously.

Tombstone RJ
01-17-2011, 07:32 PM
We wil have a defense for sure next year...they are already looking to restructure contracts and get some quality safeties in FA:

Here are some top targets that I know Xanders wants:
Peterson LB - Falcons
Mikell S - Eagles
Pool S - Jets
Harper S - Saints
Taylor CB - Steelers
Rudd LB - Bucca...should they be dumb enuff to let him go
Johnson DE - Panthers...Fox should mean we get at least 3 of their FAs.
Wiiliams RB - Panthers...the most likely FA signing this offseason!

Mind if I ask how you know this?

Cito Pelon
01-17-2011, 07:56 PM
This D has needs all over the place. Thankfully the new HC is pretty adamant about "the defense starts up front". Hopefully Fox has the input to make that happen. That's the place to start. Not some pretty defense, a kickass defense.

MagicHef
01-17-2011, 08:14 PM
In the last Hotdogs game, I noticed that Rivers didn't really seem to have much time, he would just get the ball out within 2-3 seconds to a typically wide open receiver. I didn't get out the stopwatch or anything, but it seemed like the secondary wasn't allowing the DL any time to get to him.

TheReverend
01-17-2011, 08:15 PM
Mind if I ask how you know this?

He does. Drop it.

Cito Pelon
01-17-2011, 09:29 PM
In the last Hotdogs game, I noticed that Rivers didn't really seem to have much time, he would just get the ball out within 2-3 seconds to a typically wide open receiver. I didn't get out the stopwatch or anything, but it seemed like the secondary wasn't allowing the DL any time to get to him.

Well, it's not a very skilled defense. They don't get to gaps well, and if they get there they have a hard time attacking the ball-carrier and taking him to the ground, hence the league record +20, +30, etc plays for the past 4 years. They stink. I hate to say it , but there we are.

HAT
01-17-2011, 09:40 PM
4. The Jets LB's can cover, ours can't


More than anything....This.

Boomhauer
01-18-2011, 09:10 AM
...
So why didn't we get those sorts of coverage sacks? I suspect the answer is a little bit of everything but these are some of the things that I came up with both from a talent and X's and O's perspective.


1. Our secondary talent isn't what I thought it was
+
4. The Jets LB's can cover, ours can't
=
6. There was something inherently wrong/different with our defensive schemes. Is this a zone vs. man thing?

Agamemnon
01-18-2011, 09:30 AM
2. Goodman sucks. Seriously.

Once again, proof that fans are terrible at evaluating cornerback play. Andre Goodman is a quality #2 corner.

Gort
01-18-2011, 09:39 AM
I feel compelled to ask this question after watching the Pats - Jets game last night. Granted, it was just one game and Brady looked confused for most of it. But after hearing Simms go on and on and on about how almost every sack was a coverage sack, I had to ask myself, where were our coverage sacks the last couple of years?

Perhaps I am a homer but I thought we had a pretty darn good secondary the last couple of years talent wise. Yet, despite not having a pass rush we routinely would end up getting burnt when the QB had all day back there. Last night, on some plays Brady could have made himself a ham sandwich yet would end up taking a sack or one hopping the ball despite having all the time in the world. No one was open or open for any length of time to deliver a non-timing route pass.

So why didn't we get those sorts of coverage sacks? I suspect the answer is a little bit of everything but these are some of the things that I came up with both from a talent and X's and O's perspective.

1. Our secondary talent isn't what I thought it was
2. The Jets secondary is otherworldly
3. We were rushing 4 or 5 guys and still not getting any pass rush while the Jets were rushing only 3 and dropping 8 guys into coverage
4. The Jets LB's can cover, ours can't
5. The Pats just got out game planned and weren't ready for the defensive schemes the Jets put together
6. There was something inherently wrong/different with our defensive schemes. Is this a zone vs. man thing?
7. Gisele is withholding sex again and the worms were driving Brady crazy

I said, the 2010 Broncos sucked. Maybe you didn't hear about it, you've been away a long time. They didn't go up there and tell you. The 2010 Broncos sucked.

http://sportschump.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/casino-robert-deniro-joe-pesci.jpg