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montrose
01-17-2011, 07:45 AM
• Has been working with realtor to find a house, also hoping to have the rest of the staff nailed down by today or tomorrow.
• On Mike McCoy – he’s good with QBs, not sure Denver got to see the full potential of him with the situation here, but Fox did as his QB coach for 7 years. Under McCoy the QBs got better with their technique over time. McCoy called in plays and was Carolina’s passing game coordinator. When Fox lost him, he saw a drop off in production. McCoy is a fine QB coach that understands the game, including both the west coast and spread offense.
• Can’t speak for Adam Gase but Eric Studesville has decided to stay. Has background with Eric from NYG. People in the Broncos building rave about him and how he handled the situation. Says Eric is an outstanding RB coach.
• Getting closer on a DC, it is pending. Should know something in 24-48 hours.
• Surprised Sean McDermott left Philly, sounds like a mutual deal to not be under wings of Jim Johnson. He’ll have a lot of opportunities, very good reputation across the league as a DC.
• His job as HC is to manage the team, game and coaches. Fox provides a little more input on defense than the other areas, but overall he has to be involved in all 3 phases.
• No doubt that after ball is snapped, the 3-4 and 4-3 alignment can look the same but have to get right personnel to fit your system but the principles of defense can be the same.
• Elvis Dumervil is an edge rusher, his alignment will be the same in the 4-3. He would suffer he was asked to play inside against guards but on the outside, he’ll have less opportunities to drop in coverage and spend more time rushing the passer.
• Building a defense starts up-front, an area the Broncos will look at. Have some decent guys here right now but need help.
• Doesn’t know enough yet to say who the #1 qb is. Has already met with Tim Tebow, hasn’t met Kyle Orton yet or talked to Brady Quinn. Having competition is good, not ready to name anything now but have to at some point to move forward.
• Thinks you can win without an elite QB. Doesn’t think Mark Sanchez is an elite QB at this point, but if you play solid defense and run the football you can win.
• Consider everything when out of a job, knew wanted to still coach but was very fortunate to find the right fit with the broncos. More excited to go than in years.
• Talked to Mike Shanahan, who didn’t offer his house and Fox didn’t ask him.

http://denverssportsstation.com

HooptyHoops
01-17-2011, 07:50 AM
Thanks for the update Montrose....only talked about McDermott, but no chatter about Mora?

Cito Pelon
01-17-2011, 07:52 AM
Fox seems very comfortable, as one would hope/expect with a veteran HC. It's good to have a pro in charge, especially one that is pretty adamant about "the defense starts up front."

montrose
01-17-2011, 08:02 AM
Here's the podcast - http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=740&f=67191

Thanks for the update Montrose....only talked about McDermott, but no chatter about Mora?

Didn't come up, Legwold was on after and talked as though either could be the guy.

go_broncos
01-17-2011, 08:11 AM
Thinks you can win without an elite QB. Doesn’t think Mark Sanchez is an elite QB at this point, but if you play solid defense and run the football you can win.

you can't win playoff games with average QB

tsiguy96
01-17-2011, 08:15 AM
Thinks you can win without an elite QB. Doesn’t think Mark Sanchez is an elite QB at this point, but if you play solid defense and run the football you can win.

you can't win playoff games with average QB

2 teams just yesterday won playoff games with statistically average QBs

gyldenlove
01-17-2011, 08:15 AM
Fox seems very comfortable, as one would hope/expect with a veteran HC. It's good to have a pro in charge, especially one that is pretty adamant about "the defense starts up front."

In the words of John Elway, I think Fox knows what he knows and what he doesn't know and he is comfortable with that. Hopefully he will be able to fit in people to the places he is not strong, I hear that we got the OL and WR coaches from Carolina, so hopefully better times will be on the horizon for our OL.

I hope Adam Gase sticks around, he did sterling work with Lloyd and I think for Thomas and Decker it can be important to have continuity, also for Tebow.

It is good he is putting an emphasis on the defensive front, that is the biggest weakness right now.

baja
01-17-2011, 08:16 AM
Love that he sees his job more of a manager. Sounds like he will get the best available and let them coach while he concentrates on providing them the tools & players to be successful.

HooptyHoops
01-17-2011, 08:17 AM
Loved that Fox said he is going to get some help to the upfront guys on the Dline! Music to my ears!!

gyldenlove
01-17-2011, 08:17 AM
2 teams just yesterday won playoff games with statistically average QBs

Come on now, calling Sanchez statistically average is like calling a 4 inch dick not bad. Lets be Ricky Gervais honest and say it like it is, Sanchez right now is playing like a rookie.

Steve Prefontaine
01-17-2011, 08:21 AM
“• Thinks you can win without an elite QB. Doesn’t think Mark Sanchez is an elite QB at this point, but if you play solid defense and run the football you can win.”

I know many will disagree, but this actually scares the **** out of me. Of course there will always be exceptions, but the teams that have been “championship level” competitive for years have elite and/or very clutch QBs as a stabilizing force.

I really don’t like that Fox stuck with Delhomme for all those years without trying to upgrade the position. He was one of the worst choke artists around. In 2008 Carolina had a solid defense, great running game, and Delhomme at QB. The result…a 12-4 season and first round exit after Delhomme threw 5 INTs and had 1 fumble lost.

The worst thing that can happen is Fox putting Orton back in as the starter next year. That would officially move me from scared to ****ing terrified.

CEH
01-17-2011, 08:22 AM
2 teams just yesterday won playoff games with statistically average QBs

Cutler generated 4 TDs. 28 points in a playoff game will win most of the time
Sanchez out played Brady and made a great throw to Holmes in a game where one play wins it or loses it

Sanchez is not elite but he's 4-1 in the playoffs and getting better in only his 2nd year

Los Broncos
01-17-2011, 08:24 AM
Good news about the defense and upgrading up front, thanks montrose.

tsiguy96
01-17-2011, 08:27 AM
Cutler generated 4 TDs. 28 points in a playoff game will win most of the time
Sanchez out played Brady and made a great throw to Holmes in a game where one play wins it or loses it

Sanchez is not elite but he's 4-1 in the playoffs and getting better in only his 2nd year

im not downplaying how they played in those particular games, just talking about over the course of the season, both of those QBs and their entire offenses were statistically average. the difference is their defenses are both nothing short of incredible.

Missouribronc
01-17-2011, 08:28 AM
Of course Fox thinks you can win with an average quarterback. He was successful with Jake Delhomme.

I really hope Tebow ends up better than Delhomme, which could mean really good things for Denver.

Mediator12
01-17-2011, 08:28 AM
• Has been working with realtor to find a house, also hoping to have the rest of the staff nailed down by today or tomorrow.
• On Mike McCoy – he’s good with QBs, not sure Denver got to see the full potential of him with the situation here, but Fox did as his QB coach for 7 years. Under McCoy the QBs got better with their technique over time. McCoy called in plays and was Carolina’s passing game coordinator. When Fox lost him, he saw a drop off in production. McCoy is a fine QB coach that understands the game, including both the west coast and spread offense.
• Can’t speak for Adam Gase but Eric Studesville has decided to stay. Has background with Eric from NYG. People in the Broncos building rave about him and how he handled the situation. Says Eric is an outstanding RB coach.
• Getting closer on a DC, it is pending. Should know something in 24-48 hours.
• Surprised Sean McDermott left Philly, sounds like a mutual deal to not be under wings of Jim Johnson. He’ll have a lot of opportunities, very good reputation across the league as a DC.
• His job as HC is to manage the team, game and coaches. Fox provides a little more input on defense than the other areas, but overall he has to be involved in all 3 phases.
• No doubt that after ball is snapped, the 3-4 and 4-3 alignment can look the same but have to get right personnel to fit your system but the principles of defense can be the same.
• Elvis Dumervil is an edge rusher, his alignment will be the same in the 4-3. He would suffer he was asked to play inside against guards but on the outside, he’ll have less opportunities to drop in coverage and spend more time rushing the passer.
• Building a defense starts up-front, an area the Broncos will look at. Have some decent guys here right now but need help.
• Doesn’t know enough yet to say who the #1 qb is. Has already met with Tim Tebow, hasn’t met Kyle Orton yet or talked to Brady Quinn. Having competition is good, not ready to name anything now but have to at some point to move forward.
• Thinks you can win without an elite QB. Doesn’t think Mark Sanchez is an elite QB at this point, but if you play solid defense and run the football you can win.
• Consider everything when out of a job, knew wanted to still coach but was very fortunate to find the right fit with the broncos. More excited to go than in years.
• Talked to Mike Shanahan, who didn’t offer his house and Fox didn’t ask him.

http://denverssportsstation.com

You had me there John Fox! Finally a coach who understands how defense is won consistently.

As for the Non-Elite QB comment, you need a good QB. Sanchez is a good QB. Plus, it's a qualifier. If you have a Great defense and can run the ball, then you can win with a good QB. BAL and PIT have been doing that for years and NE with Brady did it for years before he finally became elite.

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 08:29 AM
you can't win playoff games with average QB

The jets have won 4 playoff games in two years with very average QB play. The Steelers have won the SB the same way. The Ravens won a last week.

This year alone, every elite QB is already out of the playoffs because they faced teams who can run the ball and play superior defense. Pretty much every team left falls into the "average QB" category.

NYBronc
01-17-2011, 08:29 AM
Come on now, calling Sanchez statistically average is like calling a 4 inch dick not bad. Lets be Ricky Gervais honest and say it like it is, Sanchez right now is playing like a rookie.

Sanchez's rating was 127.3 yesterday. He's won 4 playoff road games, tied for the most ever. Obviously the Jets have a great defense but Sanchez deserves more credit.

Missouribronc
01-17-2011, 08:30 AM
The jets have won 4 playoff games in two years with very average QB play. The Steelers have won the SB the same way. The Ravens won a last week.

This year alone, every elite QB is already out of the playoffs because they faced teams who can run the ball and play superior defense. Pretty much every team left falls into the "average QB" category.

I don't think Aaron Rodgers is an average quarterback.

jhns
01-17-2011, 08:31 AM
I like everything he is saying. Hopefully whoever ends up really being in charge of personnel will be able to build what he is looking for. I would love to see a good run game and defense again.

CEH
01-17-2011, 08:34 AM
We need to define average. If we are talking Kyle Orton or Jake Deholomme as average then I think Cutler and Sanchez are above average or vice versa Cutler and Sanchez are average then Orton and Delhome is below average

Offense will get you to the playoffs when the weather is nice in Sept - Nov but come Dec and Jan weather is a 12th man on defense so we need a solid D and running game keep teh game close and a guy like Tebow can make a play off schedule

LRtagger
01-17-2011, 08:34 AM
Sanchez is not elite but he's 4-1 in the playoffs


Exactly. This is Fox's point.

He has one of the best defenses and running games in the league. Obviously having an elite QB helps, but its not the be-all end-all for winning a title.

baja
01-17-2011, 08:37 AM
The jets have won 4 playoff games in two years with very average QB play. The Steelers have won the SB the same way. The Ravens won a last week.

This year alone, every elite QB is already out of the playoffs because they faced teams who can run the ball and play superior defense. Pretty much every team left falls into the "average QB" category.

GB and Pittsburg have "average QBs"?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-17-2011, 08:40 AM
Love this. Thanks for the info, Montrose.

Oh, and Aaron Rodgers is well above an average QB. Come on.

go_broncos
01-17-2011, 08:40 AM
The jets have won 4 playoff games in two years with very average QB play. The Steelers have won the SB the same way. The Ravens won a last week.

This year alone, every elite QB is already out of the playoffs because they faced teams who can run the ball and play superior defense. Pretty much every team left falls into the "average QB" category.

QB should be elite if we want to compete consistently every year.
It happens that some years teams with QB's like Garrard, Collins and Jake Delhomme might reach playoff's.
But, they will not be able to do it consistently.
That's the difference.

You seriously think Sanchez and Ben is average??..

Bigdawg26
01-17-2011, 08:45 AM
I can't believe that we will finally get some good D-linemen instead of other teams role players and old cast offs!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-17-2011, 08:45 AM
Also, Big Ben makes throws and gets out of trouble to make them better than pretty much anyone in the league. One of the few QBs in the league who can be pretty well wrapped up and still escape to make a throw. Then, when he goes deep, he's dead-on accurate.

If that's not elite...

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 08:46 AM
The jets have won 4 playoff games in two years with very average QB play. The Steelers have won the SB the same way. The Ravens won a last week.

This year alone, every elite QB is already out of the playoffs because they faced teams who can run the ball and play superior defense. Pretty much every team left falls into the "average QB" category.

Ridiculous. The only average QB left is Sanchez. Cutler became the 2nd player in NFL history to run for two touchdowns and pass for two touchdowns in a playoff game. Average stat, right?

Odysseus
01-17-2011, 08:46 AM
2 teams just yesterday won playoff games with statistically average QBs

Brady, Manning and Drew Brees are sitting at home right now.

Mile High Shack
01-17-2011, 08:52 AM
The jets have won 4 playoff games in two years with very average QB play. The Steelers have won the SB the same way. The Ravens won a last week.

This year alone, every elite QB is already out of the playoffs because they faced teams who can run the ball and play superior defense. Pretty much every team left falls into the "average QB" category.

Aron Rodgers is probably a top 5 QB, some might say, he is playing better than any QB in the league right now

Big Ben has 2 rings and doesn't have pretty stats sometimes, but just wins, he is a gamer

Tombstone RJ
01-17-2011, 08:55 AM
Thinks you can win without an elite QB. Doesn’t think Mark Sanchez is an elite QB at this point, but if you play solid defense and run the football you can win.

you can't win playoff games with average QB

tell that to Sanchez and Brady, or did you miss the game yesterday?

Mediator12
01-17-2011, 08:59 AM
I think Rothlisberger is the most overrrated player In the NFL. PIT went 3-1 without him to start the year because their Defense is the best in the league and keeps them in games. All he has to do is scramble around for 10 seconds to finally find a wide open WR on one or 2 drives a game.

Case in point was the BAL game. The defense turned that game around, not Big Ben. he did not lead long drives, he scored on Defensive TO's like BAL did in the first half. If Ben played with an average defense, he would have been Jake Plummer in ARI IMHO.

go_broncos
01-17-2011, 08:59 AM
tell that to Sanchez and Brady, or did you miss the game yesterday?

hmm..you are basing it one game/season..

As i said, you can't compete every season without an elite QB.

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 09:00 AM
im not downplaying how they played in those particular games, just talking about over the course of the season, both of those QBs and their entire offenses were statistically average. the difference is their defenses are both nothing short of incredible.
Since the bye week Cutler has been far from average.

Tombstone RJ
01-17-2011, 09:04 AM
Having an elite QB definitely makes winning easier but the overall balance of the team is what will win long term and in the playoffs, I think this is Fox's point. John Fox would love to work with an "elite" QB (noted by his comment on Elway and wanting to bring Elway out of retirement) however he knows it's not a prerequisite to winning in the NFL. IMHO, it's better to have a QB who elevates his game when needed (playoffs, big games, etc) rather than a QB who throws for a million yards and never wins the big games (Dan Marino).

Hopefully, Tebow is a guy who has ice in his blood and stays cool under pressure. If he is, then he can be the perferct QB for the Broncos, especially when it comes to winning the big games.

Missouribronc
01-17-2011, 09:08 AM
Since the bye week Cutler has been far from average.

Statistically?

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 09:08 AM
I don't think Aaron Rodgers is an average quarterback.
Neither do I.

He's the only elite level QB left.

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 09:09 AM
hmm..you are basing it one game/season..

As i said, you can't compete every season without an elite QB.

The Ravens compete every year, and have never had an elite QB.

Steve Prefontaine
01-17-2011, 09:10 AM
I think Rothlisberger is the most overrrated player In the NFL. PIT went 3-1 without him to start the year because their Defense is the best in the league and keeps them in games. All he has to do is scramble around for 10 seconds to finally find a wide open WR on one or 2 drives a game.

Case in point was the BAL game. The defense turned that game around, not Big Ben. he did not lead long drives, he scored on Defensive TO's like BAL did in the first half. If Ben played with an average defense, he would have been Jake Plummer in ARI IMHO.
I hate Rothlisberger and the Steelers with a passion, but I have to admit the guy is clutch. In the Super Bowl against Arizona and then again Saturday, the guy makes plays with the game on the line.

All I’m saying is that in 2 years if the Broncos can field a competitive team with a decent defense, they better not rely on Orton at QB. It will surely end badly, probably in tight spot in the playoffs when Orton crawls into the fetal position on our own 20.

Missouribronc
01-17-2011, 09:11 AM
Neither do I.

He's the only elite level QB left.

You said there weren't any left, and I was like, man, did he watch that game Saturday.

He was absolutely amazing on Saturday night.

I wonder if Packers fans are now wondering could have been if they had just jettisoned Favre...but then again, is he this good because he sat behind Favre, or is he this good, because he's this good...

Either way. Rodgers is amazing.

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 09:11 AM
Aron Rodgers is probably a top 5 QB, some might say, he is playing better than any QB in the league right now

Big Ben has 2 rings and doesn't have pretty stats sometimes, but just wins, he is a gamerI agree on Rodgers. He's an elite level QB.

Ben, like Med said, is the most overrated player currently in the NFL.

Tombstone RJ
01-17-2011, 09:11 AM
hmm..you are basing it one game/season..

As i said, you can't compete every season without an elite QB.

I'm basing it on the most important game of the season. Tom Brady is an elite QB and NE was playing fantastic football up until yesterday. While I'm sure Brady and the pats will be back in the playoffs again, it was the Jets and Sanchez that won the most important game of the season. NY played tough, hard nosed defense, they ran the ball effectively, and Sanchez made some big plays while also protecting the ball. They did exactly what they needed to do to win a tough road game in the playoffs.

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 09:12 AM
You said there weren't any left, and I was like, man, did he watch that game Saturday.

He was absolutely amazing on Saturday night.

I wonder if Packers fans are now wondering could have been if they had just jettisoned Favre...but then again, is he this good because he sat behind Favre, or is he this good, because he's this good...

Either way. Rodgers is amazing.

Yeah, for some reason Rodgers wasn't in my mind wen I wrote that. He's entering into the conversation with Manning/Brady.

2KBack
01-17-2011, 09:12 AM
Since the bye week Cutler has been far from average.

88.9 rating since the bye week, that would be good enough for 14th in the league...no where near average

Steve Prefontaine
01-17-2011, 09:13 AM
The Ravens compete every year, and have never had an elite QB.

Yup, they've have had some outstanding defenses over the past decade, and yet they haven't been to the Super Bowl in 10 years. Meanwhile the Colts and Pats have been to multiple with much worse defenses.

Missouribronc
01-17-2011, 09:14 AM
Yeah, for some reason Rodgers wasn't in my mind wen I wrote that. He's entering into the conversation with Manning/Brady.

If he's lights out next weekend, he's there.

Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers.

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 09:15 AM
Ridiculous. The only average QB left is Sanchez. Cutler became the 2nd player in NFL history to run for two touchdowns and pass for two touchdowns in a playoff game. Average stat, right?
Cutler, Ben, and Sanchez are all hugely overrated QBs. Cutler just played a team that went 7-9 in the regular season.

He put up good numbers against a below average team that doesn't belong in the playoffs.

CEH
01-17-2011, 09:16 AM
Having an elite QB definitely makes winning easier but the overall balance of the team is what will win long term and in the playoffs, I think this is Fox's point. John Fox would love to work with an "elite" QB (noted by his comment on Elway and wanting to bring Elway out of retirement) however he knows it's not a prerequisite to winning in the NFL. IMHO, it's better to have a QB who elevates his game when needed (playoffs, big games, etc) rather than a QB who throws for a million yards and never wins the big games (Dan Marino).

Hopefully, Tebow is a guy who has ice in his blood and stays cool under pressure. If he is, then he can be the perferct QB for the Broncos, especially when it comes to winning the big games.

I agree. We need to define just what "not elite" means. I know it doesn't mean Jake Delhome or Kyle Orton.

I think Tebow is the kind of QB who wants the ball with 2 minutes to go.

God I would love to see a defense back in Denver. My favorite moments in the stands and when the crowd is the loudest is not the Elway late game drives but the defense is on the field and needs a top. The last two games this year that sort of Mile High magic started to come back.

Once on defense the last game on offense and we fell just short but there was hope. Can't say I felt like that with Orton

Defense and HFA have to be #1/#1A on our list back to respectability.

I want Inveso to be a place no one want to go through come playoff time

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 09:17 AM
88.9 rating since the bye week, that would be good enough for 14th in the league...no where near average

This is what great defenses do for a QB. They afford the perception that QBs are far better than they are.

Tombstone RJ
01-17-2011, 09:18 AM
Even though I didn't see the game, it sounds like Rodgers is really elevating his game during the playoffs, which is exactly what "elite" QBs should do. The packers also finally have the run game going too, and they are playing good defense and they are well coached. This is a recipe for success in the playoffs.

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 09:18 AM
Yup, they've have had some outstanding defenses over the past decade, and yet they haven't been to the Super Bowl in 10 years. Meanwhile the Colts and Pats have been to multiple with much worse defenses.

Manning is probably the best QB in history. The fact that he has 1 SB ring and has consistently fallen short in the playoffs pretty much kills your take.

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 09:18 AM
Cutler, Ben, and Sanchez are all hugely overrated QBs. Cutler just played a team that went 7-9 in the regular season.

He put up good numbers against a below average team that doesn't belong in the playoffs.

Ok, how about the 4 TD's he put on the Jets?

Mediator12
01-17-2011, 09:19 AM
Yup, they've have had some outstanding defenses over the past decade, and yet they haven't been to the Super Bowl in 10 years. Meanwhile the Colts and Pats have been to multiple with much worse defenses.


Food for thought:


Actually, the Pats went to SB's because of their defenses the first 3 Wins and Brady played OK in each of them. The year they went because of their offense they were 18-0 and LOST. The Colts Defenses have played much better in the playoffs with Bob Sanders and have not won without him except last year!

Manning is 9-10 in the playoffs too, even with better defenses around him. The difference is he is playing Top 5 defenses in the playoffs in the AFC. PIT, BAL, NYJ, SD, and NE before the last 2 years. He has lost more of those battles than he has won too.

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 09:22 AM
Food for thought:


Actually, the Pats went to SB's because of their defenses the first 3 Wins and Brady played OK in each of them. The year they went because of their offense they were 18-0 and LOST. The Colts Defenses have played much better in the playoffs with Bob Sanders and have not won without him except last year!

Manning is 9-10 in the playoffs too, even with better defenses around him. The difference is he is playing Top 5 defenses in the playoffs in the AFC. PIT, BAL, NYJ, SD, and NE before the last 2 years. He has lost more of those battles than he has won too.

Yep, and the Pats won super bowls because they cheated and had a great kicker.

Mediator12
01-17-2011, 09:26 AM
Yep, and the Pats won super bowls because they cheated and had a great kicker.

ROFL! Yep, forgot about that! Rep dude!

Tombstone RJ
01-17-2011, 09:27 AM
Food for thought:


Actually, the Pats went to SB's because of their defenses the first 3 Wins and Brady played OK in each of them. The year they went because of their offense they were 18-0 and LOST. The Colts Defenses have played much better in the playoffs with Bob Sanders and have not won without him except last year!

Manning is 9-10 in the playoffs too, even with better defenses around him. The difference is he is playing Top 5 defenses in the playoffs in the AFC. PIT, BAL, NYJ, SD, and NE before the last 2 years. He has lost more of those battles than he has won too.

I know Polian is a fantastic GM (perhaps the best in the NFL) but he needs to change his philosophy a bit and start building up the defense. Manning is gonna be Manning and he is going to define the offense, however, Polian needs to understand that he can't have an average defense anymore.

Now, the Colts were really, really hurt with injuries this past year so kudos to them for even makeing the playoffs. But if Polian wants to ensure another Lombardi, he better make the defense his priority and bet on the fact that the Colts are gonna have to win close games and play smash mouth defense.

tsiguy96
01-17-2011, 09:37 AM
Since the bye week Cutler has been far from average.

i know people want to glorify what cutler has done this year, but it has literally been nothing special. theyve won a lot of games and made the championship game, but over the course of the season its very clearly due to the ability of the defense, and every single stat in the book supports it.

Mediator12
01-17-2011, 09:38 AM
I know Polian is a fantastic GM (perhaps the best in the NFL) but he needs to change his philosophy a bit and start building up the defense. Manning is gonna be Manning and he is going to define the offense, however, Polian needs to understand that he can't have an average defense anymore.

Now, the Colts were really, really hurt with injuries this past year so kudos to them for even makeing the playoffs. But if Polian wants to ensure another Lombardi, he better make the defense his priority and bet on the fact that the Colts are gonna have to win close games and play smash mouth defense.

That is the feeling here in INDY as well. The years INDY has lost low scoring games without key Defenders being available is mounting. This year they lost to the Jets missing 6 defensive starters and still held the Jets to 17 points. They lost to NO last year without Freeney, Sanders, and Jerraud Powers in the second half of the SB.

They lost to multiple teams in the playoffs because the defense was undermanned and Manning did not score 28+ points like he does in the regular season. He is still amazing, but teams raise the level of defense against him in the playoffs and the defense has to keep them in games like they did versus the Jets 2 weeks ago.

Steve Prefontaine
01-17-2011, 10:00 AM
Food for thought:


Actually, the Pats went to SB's because of their defenses the first 3 Wins and Brady played OK in each of them. The year they went because of their offense they were 18-0 and LOST. The Colts Defenses have played much better in the playoffs with Bob Sanders and have not won without him except last year!

Manning is 9-10 in the playoffs too, even with better defenses around him. The difference is he is playing Top 5 defenses in the playoffs in the AFC. PIT, BAL, NYJ, SD, and NE before the last 2 years. He has lost more of those battles than he has won too.

1st Super Bowl: I’ll give you that the NE defense played lights out in that game. But with 1:30 left in the 4th, Brady led the game winning drive to beat the Rams. Clutch.

2nd Bowl: Against Carolina Brady had 354 yards and 3 TD. I consider that better than average. Also, the NE defense gave up 29 points.

3rd Bowl: Against the Eagles Brady had 230 yards and 2 TD. Not his best game, but I’d say better than average. That’s over 3600 yards and 32 TDs in a 16 game season. The Pats defense also gave up over 350 yards to the McNabb in that game.

Back to my original point, I'm just saying I hope Denver doesn’t settle with an average QB and hope they can field a defense that can dominate throughout the playoffs like the Ravens in 2001, the Bucs in 2003, or the Giants in 2008. In fact, under fox, Carolina ever fielded a defense that was nearly as dominant as any of those that I just mentioned.

I want a QB that can win a game in the clutch. Someone that relishes the opportunity and drives his team to excellence. A QB that wins a game that they had no right winning. I don’t see that with Orton. I think Tebow could turn into that type of QB.

mkporter
01-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Ridiculous. The only average QB left is Sanchez. Cutler became the 2nd player in NFL history to run for two touchdowns and pass for two touchdowns in a playoff game. Average stat, right?

It will seem that way when Tebow is doing it every week next year. :strong:

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 10:46 AM
i know people want to glorify what cutler has done this year, but it has literally been nothing special. theyve won a lot of games and made the championship game, but over the course of the season its very clearly due to the ability of the defense, and every single stat in the book supports it.
The guy's got crap for an offensive line and he's in the NFC championship game. You need to let go of the hatred man...it's over and we have Tebow; all's well that ends well.

strafen
01-17-2011, 10:55 AM
i know people want to glorify what cutler has done this year, but it has literally been nothing special. theyve won a lot of games and made the championship game, but over the course of the season its very clearly due to the ability of the defense, and every single stat in the book supports it.You were one of the biggest Cutler's nuthuggers known to man-e
You're on a mission to discredit the guys accomplishments as evidenced not only by a thread you've created about it, but by your constant non-sense comments.
The more Cutler wins, the more you're going to try to find a way to credit some other reasons...
Cutler does have a legit shot to win out.
Look out, stop while you're behind. Cutler winning the SB will sent you in a hiatus for a while...

Drek
01-17-2011, 10:55 AM
Ridiculous. The only average QB left is Sanchez. Cutler became the 2nd player in NFL history to run for two touchdowns and pass for two touchdowns in a playoff game. Average stat, right?

More like trivial.

He beat a team that gave up 31 points to the Broncos at one point in the season. Not exactly chest pounding material.

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 11:00 AM
More like trivial.

He beat a team that gave up 31 points to the Broncos at one point in the season. Not exactly chest pounding material.

2 rushing TDs and 2 passing TDs in a playoff game is anything but trivial.

Drek
01-17-2011, 11:10 AM
2 rushing TDs and 2 passing TDs in a playoff game is anything but trivial.

The fact that he's only the second person to do it is.

He ran in a couple easy QB options. Great. Its a hell of a lot better than letting him uncork passes down there where he's prone to making stupid decisions (like the should have been pick six he threw into the breadbasket of a seahawk DB early on in the game).

Its about as relevant as the stat that the Jets are the first team to beat Peyton Manning and Tom Brady on the road in successive weeks since 2002. It sounds good at first but in reality is useless trivia nonsense.

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 11:11 AM
The fact that he's only the second person to do it is.

He ran in a couple easy QB options. Great. Its a hell of a lot better than letting him uncork passes down there where he's prone to making stupid decisions (like the should have been pick six he threw into the breadbasket of a seahawk DB early on in the game).

Its about as relevant as the stat that the Jets are the first team to beat Peyton Manning and Tom Brady on the road in successive weeks since 2002. It sounds good at first but in reality is useless trivia nonsense.

uh huh. I'm sure Drew Brees agree with you.

Tombstone RJ
01-17-2011, 11:13 AM
2 rushing TDs and 2 passing TDs in a playoff game is anything but trivial.

Cutler did good against the seachickens, but the fact is, the seachickens were the weakest team in the playoffs. But give Cutler and dabears credit, they won that game and now they have the chance to play an opponent they know as well as anyone. It's gonna be hard for the packers to beat the bears 3 times in one season and if I'm not mistaken, that is exactly what they will have to do to get to the SB.

tsiguy96
01-17-2011, 11:13 AM
The guy's got crap for an offensive line and he's in the NFC championship game. You need to let go of the hatred man...it's over and we have Tebow; all's well that ends well.

what do my posts have to do with hatred? im posting FACTS. there is no personal opinion in any of my posts, he and his offense have had a statistically average-below average season. every single stat supports it,while that defense is top 5 in most categories, and specifically points allowed.

Drek
01-17-2011, 11:15 AM
uh huh. I'm sure Drew Brees agree with you.

I'm sure he probably would. Drew Brees has accomplished more significant things than "two rushing and two passing TDs in a playoff game".

That holds about as much merit as being one of the few MLBers to hit a home run in your first big league at bat.

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 11:23 AM
I'm sure he probably would. Drew Brees has accomplished more significant things than "two rushing and two passing TDs in a playoff game".

That holds about as much merit as being one of the few MLBers to hit a home run in your first big league at bat.

Thank goodness I'm not arguing against this. Jay's and the Bears 75% RZ efficiency is trivial compared to Brees' 55% efficiency against the same team. But I get it Drek, there are a few of you left that think Jay can't elevate his game and team to wins. Rock on QB expert.

Missouribronc
01-17-2011, 11:29 AM
Thank goodness I'm not arguing against this. Jay's and the Bears 75% RZ efficiency is trivial compared to Brees' 55% efficiency against the same team. But I get it Drek, there are a few of you left that think Jay can't elevate his game and team to wins. Rock on QB expert.


You had to look pretty deep to find a couple of stats to make Cutler look "elite" didn't you?

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 11:35 AM
You had to look pretty deep to find a couple of stats to make Cutler look "elite" didn't you?

I don't care about the Jay Cutler is elite argument. His 4 touchdowns were not trivial. That's two more than Brees against the same team. Jay elevated his team to win a playoff game when Drew Brees didn't. The matchup between Rodgers and Cutler is going to be sick.

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 11:38 AM
what do my posts have to do with hatred? im posting FACTS. there is no personal opinion in any of my posts, he and his offense have had a statistically average-below average season. every single stat supports it,while that defense is top 5 in most categories, and specifically points allowed.
Eh...OK then. Uhh

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 11:39 AM
I don't care about the Jay Cutler is elite argument. His 4 touchdowns were not trivial. That's two more than Brees against the same team. Jay elevated his team to win a playoff game when Drew Brees didn't. The matchup between Rodgers and Cutler is going to be sick.
Rogers is playing on another level right now like he's in the zone.

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 11:41 AM
Rogers is playing on another level right now like he's in the zone.

I agree he's on fire right now. Ridiculously good. He text Cutler right after the Bears won yesterday to congratulate and Jab on next weekend. These guys are buddies and fierce competitors.

Drek
01-17-2011, 11:45 AM
Thank goodness I'm not arguing against this. Jay's and the Bears 75% RZ efficiency is trivial compared to Brees' 55% efficiency against the same team. But I get it Drek, there are a few of you left that think Jay can't elevate his game and team to wins. Rock on QB expert.

Why are you changing the subject?

You claimed the fact that he's only the second player to rush for 2 TDs and throw 2 TDs in a playoff game as some form of proof that he's a good QB.

In reality that is nothing more the useless trivia. Like I said, its the equivalent to someone hitting a home run their first at bat in the majors, or someone making the most consecutive free throws in NBA history. Nothing more than trivia.

We can discuss the merits of Cutler as a QB if you want, but my primary point in originally quoting you was to highlight how your key "statistical" argument was nothing more than a (crappy) trivial pursuit question.

That and repeating the useful info that it came against Seattle, the worst playoff team to ever win a game.

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 11:48 AM
Why are you changing the subject?

You claimed the fact that he's only the second player to rush for 2 TDs and throw 2 TDs in a playoff game as some form of proof that he's a good QB.

In reality that is nothing more the useless trivia. Like I said, its the equivalent to someone hitting a home run their first at bat in the majors, or someone making the most consecutive free throws in NBA history. Nothing more than trivia.

We can discuss the merits of Cutler as a QB if you want, but my primary point in originally quoting you was to highlight how your key "statistical" argument was nothing more than a (crappy) trivial pursuit question.

That and repeating the useful info that it came against Seattle, the worst playoff team to ever win a game.

Im not changing the subject. Cutler's 4 touchdowns in a playoff game prove he is a good QB. Enough said. But have fun playing trivial pursuit.

epicSocialism4tw
01-17-2011, 11:54 AM
• Building a defense starts up-front, an area the Broncos will look at. Have some decent guys here right now but need help.
• Thinks you can win without an elite QB. Doesn’t think Mark Sanchez is an elite QB at this point, but if you play solid defense and run the football you can win.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/76RrdwElnTU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/76RrdwElnTU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

tsiguy96
01-17-2011, 11:58 AM
Eh...OK then. Uhh

i meant this thread specifically ;)

and i think everyone here trying to compare waht cutler did to what brees did, cutler had a far better game (as did the bears defense), but there is a significant difference between playing in seattle and seattle playing an away game. seattle has best homefield advantage in the NFL since 2000, and the bears D didnt get torched.

Inkana7
01-17-2011, 12:03 PM
ugh this thread

Drek
01-17-2011, 12:04 PM
Im not changing the subject. Cutler's 4 touchdowns in a playoff game prove he is a good QB. Enough said. But have fun playing trivial pursuit.

So 4 TDs in a playoff game = Instant good QB?

Wow. Thanks for solving that question. You want to let the NFL know they can stop tracking QB rating, passing yardage, completion percentage, etc. now? All seems rather trivial when we have your gold standard to apply.

Has a guy scored 4 TDs in a playoff game? No? Scrub. Yes? Get sculpting the bust for Canton!

Perfect system. Jeff George thanks you for the compliment.

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 12:08 PM
So 4 TDs in a playoff game = Instant good QB?

Wow. Thanks for solving that question. You want to let the NFL know they can stop tracking QB rating, passing yardage, completion percentage, etc. now? All seems rather trivial when we have your gold standard to apply.

Has a guy scored 4 TDs in a playoff game? No? Scrub. Yes? Get sculpting the bust for Canton!

Perfect system. Jeff George thanks you for the compliment.

Oh who's changing the subject now? Canton bound?

4 TDs against the Jets (only Cut and Brady were able to do this), 4 TDs against the Eagles (only he and Eli on this one). You see a theme here? Sounds like a good QB to me but take my word for it.

HILife
01-17-2011, 12:09 PM
• Building a defense starts up-front, an area the Broncos will look at. Have some decent guys here right now but need help.

http://denverssportsstation.com

I can't tell you how glad I am to hear that.

HILife
01-17-2011, 12:14 PM
2 teams just yesterday won playoff games with statistically average QBs

Lets not forget the 2000 Ravens. Or the first Patriots superbowl, or Steelers first superbowl with Big Rapistberger. Or the year Tampa bay won the superbowl. They weren't exactly elite QBs.

zdoor
01-17-2011, 12:14 PM
WAy to keep the thread on topic.... I liked what Fox has to say. I think if Tebow can become a good QB his style will work extremely well in this type of situation. I will be absolutely ecstatic if we finally address the Dline...

HILife
01-17-2011, 12:19 PM
hmm..you are basing it one game/season..

As i said, you can't compete every season without an elite QB.

Wrong, WRONG, once again. You said, and I quote

[B]
you can't win playoff games with average QB


You didn't say anything about every season. And someone has already stated that the Ravens stay competitive with an average QB.

Drek
01-17-2011, 12:19 PM
Oh who's changing the subject now? Canton bound?

4 TDs against the Jets (only Cut and Brady were able to do this), 4 TDs against the Eagles (only he and Eli on this one). You see a theme here? Sounds like a good QB to me but take my word for it.

At this point I'm assuming you're just having fun trolling this thread so I'm not going to waste much more time responding.

I did want to point out that you're using Eli Manning as a comparative "good" QB here by the way. Peyton's down syndrome suffering younger brother. Just comedy gold right there.

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 12:22 PM
At this point I'm assuming you're just having fun trolling this thread so I'm not going to waste much more time responding.

I did want to point out that you're using Eli Manning as a comparative "good" QB here by the way. Peyton's down syndrome suffering younger brother. Just comedy gold right there.

This right here is all we need to know about you Drek. I feel bad for anyone on this site that has a Down child. You suck.

broncswin
01-17-2011, 12:30 PM
ugh this thread

ROFL!ROFL! agree

Inkana7
01-17-2011, 12:31 PM
This right here is all we need to know about you Drek. I feel bad for anyone on this site that has a Down child. You suck.

I went to search your posts to see if you had ever used the word "retarded" and realized that you've been defending Cutler worse than Jhns. Jesus, dude.

ro_50
01-17-2011, 12:32 PM
As others have said on here, Fox has a likeness to veteran QBs and others have astutely pointed out here, do you guys think he will go w/ Orton because he's the "safer choice."

Gosh I hope that isn't the case.

orangemonkey
01-17-2011, 12:33 PM
I went to search your posts to see if you had ever used the word "retarded" and realized that you've been defending Cutler worse than Jhns. Jesus, dude.

So you can defend Drek's Down analogy? How NOBLE of you.

Ray Finkle
01-17-2011, 12:36 PM
wow....another thread flushed down the total with useless posts....

schaaf
01-17-2011, 12:37 PM
As others have said on here, Fox has a likeness to veteran QBs and others have astutely pointed out here, do you guys think he will go w/ Orton because he's the "safer choice."

Gosh I hope that isn't the case.

I think Fox will go with Tebow, It seems to me that Fox absolutely loves Tebow and knows that he could bring another dimension to the offense.

Drek
01-17-2011, 12:40 PM
This right here is all we need to know about you Drek. I feel bad for anyone on this site that has a Down child. You suck.

http://johnpaulgomez.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/internet_serious_mf_business.jpg

Cito Pelon
01-17-2011, 01:11 PM
“• Thinks you can win without an elite QB. Doesn’t think Mark Sanchez is an elite QB at this point, but if you play solid defense and run the football you can win.”

I know many will disagree, but this actually scares the **** out of me. Of course there will always be exceptions, but the teams that have been “championship level” competitive for years have elite and/or very clutch QBs as a stabilizing force.

I really don’t like that Fox stuck with Delhomme for all those years without trying to upgrade the position. He was one of the worst choke artists around. In 2008 Carolina had a solid defense, great running game, and Delhomme at QB. The result…a 12-4 season and first round exit after Delhomme threw 5 INTs and had 1 fumble lost.

The worst thing that can happen is Fox putting Orton back in as the starter next year. That would officially move me from scared to ****ing terrified.

Relax. Fox is not so dumb he doesn't realize the importance of a "franchise" QB. He went on to comment, "You can't do it consistently without a franchise QB, but it's possible."

tsiguy96
01-17-2011, 01:32 PM
Im not changing the subject. Cutler's 4 touchdowns in a playoff game prove he is a good QB. Enough said. But have fun playing trivial pursuit.

exactly. he is a good QB and has played that way for several games now, i dont think anyone is discounting that. but hes a statistically average QB, has been that way for awhile on that team.

frerottenextelway
01-17-2011, 01:49 PM
As others have said on here, Fox has a likeness to veteran QBs and others have astutely pointed out here, do you guys think he will go w/ Orton because he's the "safer choice."

Gosh I hope that isn't the case.

I think Tebow being the starting QB is more of a sure thing than ANY other position on our team.

Steve Prefontaine
01-17-2011, 01:50 PM
Relax. Fox is not so dumb he doesn't realize the importance of a "franchise" QB. He went on to comment, "You can't do it consistently without a franchise QB, but it's possible."

Thanks for the clarification...and I couldn't agree more with the additional information.

But if that's how he feels, why the **** stick with Delhomme for so long?

Steve Prefontaine
01-17-2011, 01:51 PM
I think Tebow being the stating QB is more of a sure thing than ANY other position on our team.
I hope your right. I'll feel much better if Orton is traded for a 2nd.

Archer81
01-17-2011, 02:07 PM
How NOBLE of you.


<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/plWnm7UpsXk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/plWnm7UpsXk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

:Broncos:

Play2win
01-17-2011, 02:24 PM
ugh this thread

This thread was GREAT... for about 3 posts...

frerottenextelway
01-17-2011, 02:25 PM
I'd rate this thread a 6.

zdoor
01-17-2011, 02:52 PM
I think Tebow being the starting QB is more of a sure thing than ANY other position on our team.

I agree...