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footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 07:19 AM
Lots of internet chatter about this guy, but I've seen almost no mention of him here, which is odd considering he's projected by some in the top ten and has even been seen by some scouts as a potential #1 overall pick. Sat out an entire year in suspension amid questions about his character after he went down for accepting some improper compensation from an agent along with several other UNC players. Overcame a benign brain tumor his senior year in HS after being told he'd never play again. Elite pass rusher with ACC best 19 TFL and 11 sacks last year as a sophmore. Measurables: 6'5", 270, 400 pound BP, 4.65 forty (estimated), elite first step with the quicks and upfield speed to beat tackles off the edge and the strength to bull rush inside. He dominated Boston College OT Anthony Castonzo, considered a 1st round pick. Projected as either a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE in the pros. Some compare him to DeMarcus Ware. All kinds of crazy speed numbers floating on the web rumor him having run a 4.38 forty, which I doubt seriously but even timing in the 4.6 range he's got the speed to be considered a seroius pass rushing threat. He's a good tackler and a jarring hitter, forcing 6 fumbles last year. As with any of these guys he's unpolished and has lots of work to do. Probably a year away from performing up to his potential due to having sat out. On video his agility and playmaking skills are obvious, and he seems to diagnose the play very well.

My feeling is that Quinn will fall outside the top ten due to having been out of football a year and the character issues but he won't drop far with the talent he has. Could possibly be had with a move up from the #36 pick or a move down from #2.

Discuss...

boppool
01-17-2011, 07:42 AM
We've already got Brady Quinn and Richard Quinn, so... why not?

cmhargrove
01-17-2011, 07:49 AM
Ah, hope spring eternal at this time of the year...

It that time again. Time for jumping out of swimming pools, 300 lb back flips, and eye-popping stopwatch times.

HILife
01-17-2011, 07:59 AM
We've already got Brady Quinn and Richard Quinn, so... why not?

Has someone researched signing Dr. Quinn? I'm sure she can help use out.

HILife
01-17-2011, 08:00 AM
Ah, hope spring eternal at this time of the year...

It that time again. Time for jumping out of swimming pools, 300 lb back flips, and eye-popping stopwatch times.

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BroncoBuff
01-17-2011, 08:01 AM
Enough with the Quinns ferhevinsake, they all suck. Enough with the Gators too ....

I say pull his name off the board on sheer principal.

OrangeSe7en
01-17-2011, 08:04 AM
Enough with the Quinns ferhevinsake ... they all suck.

Pull his name off the board on sheer principal.

Don't you mean principle?

BroncoBuff
01-17-2011, 08:09 AM
Don't you mean principle?

That too.

montrose
01-17-2011, 08:20 AM
FYI, Robert is Richard's brother.

Mile High Shack
01-17-2011, 08:31 AM
we should get him too

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Anthony_Quinn.jpg

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 08:56 AM
I don't think there's been much talk of him because he's an edge guy in 4-3, and if we choose to go that route we already have Doom and Ayers in that role. We are in more desperate need of upgrades on the interior DL, ILB, and secondary.

Que
01-17-2011, 08:58 AM
If there is one thing we have firmly established under McD's reign of terror is that Quinn = teh suck

Kaylore
01-17-2011, 08:59 AM
FYI, Robert is Richard's brother.

LOL And his stock just plummeted on the Mane.

Bigdawg26
01-17-2011, 08:59 AM
FYI, Robert is Richard's brother.

Thats not a good thing!

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 09:28 AM
I don't think there's been much talk of him because he's an edge guy in 4-3, and if we choose to go that route we already have Doom and Ayers in that role. We are in more desperate need of upgrades on the interior DL, ILB, and secondary.
Here's a question; if we're going with a 4-3, do we want Doom in there? I think he's a pro bowler at OLB in the 3-4 but as a DE in the 4-3, he gets fewer sacks and he struggles with wearing down against the huge OT's. I wonder if Doom wouldn't be worth more as trade bait? Also...isn't he due for a huge payday? Bowlen could avoid that if he traded him for a #1, then we draft a true 4-3 DE with the size to play both the run and the pass. I like Dumervil but he's not as good in the 4-3.

Dedhed
01-17-2011, 09:39 AM
Here's a question; if we're going with a 4-3, do we want Doom in there? I think he's a pro bowler at OLB in the 3-4 but as a DE in the 4-3, he gets fewer sacks and he struggles with wearing down against the huge OT's. I wonder if Doom wouldn't be worth more as trade bait? Also...isn't he due for a huge payday? Bowlen could avoid that if he traded him for a #1, then we draft a true 4-3 DE with the size to play both the run and the pass. I like Dumervil but he's not as good in the 4-3.
I agree that he has more value in a 3-4 as an OLB, but we cannot trade our best defender for a draft pick. He's still very valuable in a 4-3, 12.5 sacks in 2008, but becomes more of a situational player.

I have hope that given Fox's ability to make Peppers so successful, that he can get a lot out of Doom even in a 4-3.

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 09:47 AM
I agree that he has more value in a 3-4 as an OLB, but we cannot trade our best defender for a draft pick. He's still very valuable in a 4-3, 12.5 sacks in 2008, but becomes more of a situational player.

I have hope that given Fox's ability to make Peppers so successful, that he can get a lot out of Doom even in a 4-3.
I wish Doom had the instincts to play MLB in a 4-3. I just don't see him as the same guy in a 4-3, especially towards the end of the season. He's our best defender (other than Champ) but in the 4-3 he's really just pretty good not great.

Also...will Bowlen resign him anyway? That's a key question going into this draft.

Mediator12
01-17-2011, 09:52 AM
Quinn and Marvin Austin are not players I want, at any price right now. Both of them put their own interests above their team in North Carolina and are not guys I want to try and build a defense around. Period. They are play when they want to type of players and have little football character let alone regular character.

The biggest reason Elite talented players fail at the next level is they can not handle the mental demands of the Paycheck and position. These 2 guys scream trouble and until I get an affadavit of their mental, emotional, and social abilities there is no way I use a pick on one of them in a rebuilding defense.

go_broncos
01-17-2011, 09:57 AM
Players with 'Quinn' or 'Josh' are not allowed in Dove Valley.

Pat Bowlen
01-17-2011, 10:49 AM
I wish Doom had the instincts to play MLB in a 4-3. I just don't see him as the same guy in a 4-3, especially towards the end of the season. He's our best defender (other than Champ) but in the 4-3 he's really just pretty good not great.

Also...will Bowlen resign him anyway? That's a key question going into this draft.
Don't feel too bad, I black out a lot as well.

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 11:13 AM
Quinn and Marvin Austin are not players I want, at any price right now. Both of them put their own interests above their team in North Carolina and are not guys I want to try and build a defense around. Period. They are play when they want to type of players and have little football character let alone regular character.

The biggest reason Elite talented players fail at the next level is they can not handle the mental demands of the Paycheck and position. These 2 guys scream trouble and until I get an affadavit of their mental, emotional, and social abilities there is no way I use a pick on one of them in a rebuilding defense.
Or maybe they just happened to get caught? Everyone knows there's a significant number of players drafted who got benefits from boosters. I'd also bet that quite a few of these guys have some kind of under the table deal with agents or at least have accepted gifts, cash, etc...I imagine you agree.

I don't know if either of them is a real character risk or not. I'm sure the NFL screening process will look for issues. LeBron James got himself into dutch with this stuff too, but fans forget quickly if a guy produces. Now if either of them has issues with drugs, women, guns, gangs, gambling, burglary, etc...that's another story. The NCAA is so hypocritical with this stuff anyway. They make millions off the backs of these kids, give them scholarships knowing the demands on their time and the poor preparation in high school has left most of them ill prepared to actually benefit from the education they get. Many if not most of these guys come in from economically disadvantaged backgrounds and they're not even allowed a stipend for basics like laundry money. Then we all wonder why we have stories of kids taking money from agents or boosters.

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 11:15 AM
Don't feel too bad, I black out a lot as well.
Yeah...my bad I think I was thinking about Champ.

ØrangeÇrush
01-17-2011, 11:27 AM
Ah, hope spring eternal at this time of the year...

It that time again. Time for jumping out of swimming pools, 300 lb back flips, and eye-popping stopwatch times.

and throwing the football from the 50 to the end zone on his KNEES!


HE WAS ON HIS KNEES!!!!! OMFG!! ON HIS KNEES!!

schaaf
01-17-2011, 11:43 AM
and throwing the football from the 50 to the end zone on his KNEES!


HE WAS ON HIS KNEES!!!!! OMFG!! ON HIS KNEES!!

Was this Jamarcus Russel Taking a breather after the wonderlic Test?

BroncoBuff
01-17-2011, 11:58 AM
Don't feel too bad, I black out a lot as well.

You looked great at the Elway press conference the other day. Lucid interval?

TheChamp24
01-17-2011, 12:00 PM
I agree that he has more value in a 3-4 as an OLB, but we cannot trade our best defender for a draft pick. He's still very valuable in a 4-3, 12.5 sacks in 2008, but becomes more of a situational player.

I have hope that given Fox's ability to make Peppers so successful, that he can get a lot out of Doom even in a 4-3.

Yeah, well, we are paying Dumervil elite status money. In a 4-3 defense, he is not an elite DE.
I never liked the Dumervil extension signing to be honest, I felt it was too soon and right now, doesn't look too great.

ØrangeÇrush
01-17-2011, 12:08 PM
Was this Jamarcus Russel Taking a breather after the wonderlic Test?

Kyle Boller, we had quite a few here that wanted him.

schaaf
01-17-2011, 12:09 PM
haha i know, I was just being a smartass

Pick Six
01-17-2011, 12:32 PM
The last brother combo on the Broncos worked out well...LOLLOLLOL

Ray Finkle
01-17-2011, 01:35 PM
FYI, Robert is Richard's brother.

are you sure? I could have sworn I read somewhere that this was false.

BigPlayShay
01-17-2011, 01:49 PM
are you sure? I could have sworn I read somewhere that this was false.

http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/quinn_robert01.html
Robert Quinn, Son of Maria and James Quinn

http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/quinn_richard00.html
Richard Quinn, Son of Yolanda and Richard Quinn, Sr.

BroncoBuff
01-17-2011, 02:48 PM
haha i know, I was just being a smartass

Hold on there newbie ... around here there's a minimum 300 posts before any smartass.

Other than that, I'd say you're coming along just fine :thumbs:

bendog
01-17-2011, 03:02 PM
Here's a question; if we're going with a 4-3, do we want Doom in there? I think he's a pro bowler at OLB in the 3-4 but as a DE in the 4-3, he gets fewer sacks and he struggles with wearing down against the huge OT's. I wonder if Doom wouldn't be worth more as trade bait? Also...isn't he due for a huge payday? Bowlen could avoid that if he traded him for a #1, then we draft a true 4-3 DE with the size to play both the run and the pass. I like Dumervil but he's not as good in the 4-3.

he already got the contract and just spent a year on IR. He's not going to attract trade interest.

Mediator12
01-17-2011, 03:05 PM
Or maybe they just happened to get caught? Everyone knows there's a significant number of players drafted who got benefits from boosters. I'd also bet that quite a few of these guys have some kind of under the table deal with agents or at least have accepted gifts, cash, etc...I imagine you agree.

I don't know if either of them is a real character risk or not. I'm sure the NFL screening process will look for issues. LeBron James got himself into dutch with this stuff too, but fans forget quickly if a guy produces. Now if either of them has issues with drugs, women, guns, gangs, gambling, burglary, etc...that's another story. The NCAA is so hypocritical with this stuff anyway. They make millions off the backs of these kids, give them scholarships knowing the demands on their time and the poor preparation in high school has left most of them ill prepared to actually benefit from the education they get. Many if not most of these guys come in from economically disadvantaged backgrounds and they're not even allowed a stipend for basics like laundry money. Then we all wonder why we have stories of kids taking money from agents or boosters.

They did way more than that, they were suspended by their coach BEFORE the NCAA suspended them. I have a friend who works at the NCAA here in INDY for the enforcement division. I know what really goes on with these guys behind the scenes, I also Know that 99% of them are not taking money or benefits too.

I question their character for being the ones who do it, for being the ones dumb enough to be caught, for doing it so poorly even Butch Davis would not try to defend them, and for other things in their character that have not come out yet. Time will tell, but my money is on them not being anything more than the next Gerrard Warren or Jamaal Anderson.

bendog
01-17-2011, 03:07 PM
This guy at ten would be an even bigger bust factor than the one year wonder in Fairley

broncocalijohn
01-17-2011, 03:46 PM
We've already got Brady Quinn and Richard Quinn, so... why not?

that is what scares me!

bendog
01-17-2011, 04:09 PM
that is what scares me!

Law of averages means they can't all suck

cutthemdown
01-17-2011, 04:18 PM
In a 4-3 you would have to load up dooms side with a big OLB and a big DT inside of him. Then Doom would line up wide, ala freeny, and would have the job of:

a- getting to qb anyway possible
b- bot letting any running plays get outside of him

I think doom could perform at a pro bowl level in a cover 2/3 4-3 defense. In fact a front 4 with doom and ayers wouldn't be bad if we got some really stout dt and OLB.

Then also I would think they would have a bunch of hybrid alingments where doom is the blitzer lining up all over the field.

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 04:22 PM
he already got the contract and just spent a year on IR. He's not going to attract trade interest.
Yeah I was thinking about Champ's situation but you're right, with that contract he's not very tradeable is he? That's a pretty significant piece of the puzzle to be married to. I wonder if Fox sees him as a starter or a pass rush specialist in the 4-3 if that's the way we're going.

schaaf
01-17-2011, 04:44 PM
Hold on there newbie ... around here there's a minimum 300 posts before any smartass.

Other than that, I'd say you're coming along just fine :thumbs:

let the smartass remarks begin?:boxing: haha

footstepsfrom#27
01-17-2011, 04:51 PM
They did way more than that, they were suspended by their coach BEFORE the NCAA suspended them. I have a friend who works at the NCAA here in INDY for the enforcement division. I know what really goes on with these guys behind the scenes, I also Know that 99% of them are not taking money or benefits too.
You don't know that, because THEY don't know that. There's no way they could. If you seriously believe only 1% of college football players are getting extra benefits on the side there's probably nothing that will change your mind but how would the NCAA people know what they don't know?...if you get my drift. That sounds like something they say to promote their own image. As for why their teams suspended them, what I read...not sure if this was the same on all of them or not...but I think it was roughly $5k from an agent.
I question their character for being the ones who do it, for being the ones dumb enough to be caught, for doing it so poorly even Butch Davis would not try to defend them, and for other things in their character that have not come out yet. Time will tell, but my money is on them not being anything more than the next Gerrard Warren or Jamaal Anderson.
What "other things" are you talking about? Are you saying you have inside info on these specific guys that the NCAA hasn't revealed? If so I invite you to step up and tell us what it is. As for Davis, of course he's not going to defend them, that would make him look like he's endorsing the behavior...which would also be bad for recruiting, bad for his own job probably, and certainly would rub the fans the wrong way...but I'm not defending them specifically either, I'm suggesting the NCAA is adopting a very hypocritical stance on some of this stuff given the so-called amateur status they promote against the backdrop of millions being made off these players. Yet those same players who make that possible can't even receive some small stipend for basic needs outside of books and tuition. Most of these guys can't work part time jobs because they're at practice or having to work out. How is a kid from the projects who doesn't even have money to buy personal items like soap or toothpaste supposed to take care of that stuff if he's not got any help from home? I'm suggesting not that we pay them like pros, but that a small portion of the income they make possible for these university programs ought to be dedicated to providing players a small fund to at least take care of basic needs. It's possible we might see less cheating if something like that were adopted, but the NCAA is going to hold fast to these policies on the basis of some kind of morality...I find that extremely hypocritical. The head coach can be paid millions but a kid on the team can't get $100 a month for some basis assistance if he's a hardship financial case? How telling...

I think the original thrust of this discussion had to do with not drafting guys because they have character issues. My contention is that fans for the most part, forgive certain kinds of transgressions easier than others. I don't know if any of these NC dudes are bad apples or just have rotten home situations with a single mom struggling to support children without any help. Do you?

Taken from that vantage point, I think I'm wiser to withold opinion than to lump all character concerns into one big pot. I wouldn't draft a guy who beat up his girlfriend, but I'd take a chance on one who was just trying to make sure she got what she needed even if it meant he did something a little stupid in the process. In other words it's about the motives underlying the actions as much as it is the actions themselves for me in this kind of situation. I'm 100% certain taking money early from an agent will be far down the list of sins found on any team these guys are drafted by. We have people in this league who are convicted felons and plenty that haven't gotten caught yet we're going to make this a litnus test for playing on the team? That doesn't make much sense to me.

BroncoBuff
01-17-2011, 11:42 PM
Don't feel too bad, I black out a lot as well.

After Rams owner Carroll Rosenbloom died, his wife Georgia guided the Rams to a Super Bowl win. Ya think Annabelle has the stones to pull that off?

footstepsfrom#27
01-18-2011, 01:51 AM
After Rams owner Carroll Rosenbloom died, his wife Georgia guided the Rams to a Super Bowl win. Ya think Annabelle has the stones to pull that off?
She's got a weird Joan Rivers thing going on...

http://www.blacktie-colorado.com/have_you_met_images/32648875106457cc34a3e256609f7653.jpg

Mediator12
01-18-2011, 08:20 AM
You don't know that, because THEY don't know that. There's no way they could. If you seriously believe only 1% of college football players are getting extra benefits on the side there's probably nothing that will change your mind but how would the NCAA people know what they don't know?...if you get my drift. That sounds like something they say to promote their own image. As for why their teams suspended them, what I read...not sure if this was the same on all of them or not...but I think it was roughly $5k from an agent.

What "other things" are you talking about? Are you saying you have inside info on these specific guys that the NCAA hasn't revealed? If so I invite you to step up and tell us what it is. As for Davis, of course he's not going to defend them, that would make him look like he's endorsing the behavior...which would also be bad for recruiting, bad for his own job probably, and certainly would rub the fans the wrong way...but I'm not defending them specifically either, I'm suggesting the NCAA is adopting a very hypocritical stance on some of this stuff given the so-called amateur status they promote against the backdrop of millions being made off these players. Yet those same players who make that possible can't even receive some small stipend for basic needs outside of books and tuition. Most of these guys can't work part time jobs because they're at practice or having to work out. How is a kid from the projects who doesn't even have money to buy personal items like soap or toothpaste supposed to take care of that stuff if he's not got any help from home? I'm suggesting not that we pay them like pros, but that a small portion of the income they make possible for these university programs ought to be dedicated to providing players a small fund to at least take care of basic needs. It's possible we might see less cheating if something like that were adopted, but the NCAA is going to hold fast to these policies on the basis of some kind of morality...I find that extremely hypocritical. The head coach can be paid millions but a kid on the team can't get $100 a month for some basis assistance if he's a hardship financial case? How telling...

I think the original thrust of this discussion had to do with not drafting guys because they have character issues. My contention is that fans for the most part, forgive certain kinds of transgressions easier than others. I don't know if any of these NC dudes are bad apples or just have rotten home situations with a single mom struggling to support children without any help. Do you?

Taken from that vantage point, I think I'm wiser to withold opinion than to lump all character concerns into one big pot. I wouldn't draft a guy who beat up his girlfriend, but I'd take a chance on one who was just trying to make sure she got what she needed even if it meant he did something a little stupid in the process. In other words it's about the motives underlying the actions as much as it is the actions themselves for me in this kind of situation. I'm 100% certain taking money early from an agent will be far down the list of sins found on any team these guys are drafted by. We have people in this league who are convicted felons and plenty that haven't gotten caught yet we're going to make this a litnus test for playing on the team? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Footsteps, I know you think the NCAA is biased toward the Money making sports kids, but that is another argument altogether. The argument is their character so here goes.

1. There are 2 kinds of character teams look at, football character and personal Character. Football Character is the ability to maximize his potential as a player. It includes hard work on the practice field, the weight room, offseason conditioning, and film room. It also includes being a leader, the ability to take coaching and learn quickly, the ability to play through minor pain and injuries, respect for and from their teammates, and inspiring fear from their opponents.

Personal Character takes into consideration a players ability to not let non- football distractions or circumstances interfere with their job as a football player. It includes the players interactions with school counselors, tutors, and athletic trainers. It follows their disciplenary actions from the team and NCAA. It looks at any criminal complaints. It looks at family situations, friends, and women. It looks at relationships with teammates off the field. It looks at their past behaviors to see if there is a pattern of good or poor decision making skills.

2. Most busts in the draft are guys who failed one of these 2 types of character, but were so enticing to teams based on their measurables and "upside" that teams feared they would miss on the next Pro bowl player if they passed on selecting them. Way too many decision makers believe their staffs can simply "coach them up". The problem is there is no time to teach proper tackling or the ability to do full contact drills in the offseason of learning. Coaches can motivate players, but the great players in the NFL are self motivated. The guys who make it past the league average playing time, are self motivated or serious reclamation projects who underperform.

3. In this case, both Quinn and Austin have issues with both types of Character. I do not like their personal character that I do know about, which means, as you so succinctly pointed out, that there is probably a lot more we do not know. However, what they have done to this point is enough. They took money from agents to go party. Period. They did not take money to help their family. They did not take money to go home. They did not take money for anything but their personal enjoyment. They also accepted jewelry so they could have some bling. That is what they did with their benefits, its a fact. It is also the exact kind of behavior that is reprehensible. They wanted to get theirs, while everyone else had to wait. That is a character problem. and a pattern.

The second thing they did, was they lied to their coach about it. You tell the coach and let him handle it when this situation occurs. The NCAA will punish you, but you will not be be "Permanently Ineligible" or damage the program as much. The coach will be pissed, but you will not hurt your team as much. Instead, they lied to the coach, lied to the NCAA in 3 seperate reinstatement interviews, and lied to their teammmates. When they were caught, they had a chance to do the right thing, but put their interests above the team and coach. Pure, plain, and simple selfishness that will not work at the next level.

Now, I know some people will say big deal they lied to protect themselves. Well, the reason they were banned was because they continually lied when given a chance to tell the truth, not because of the benefits. The OSU kids got suspended, not banned, for the same type of offense. The way they handled it was only about them, and its a blatant pattern.

4. Their Football Character concerned me even before the suspensions. Both players have a ton of physical tools, but were very inconsistent on the field. Neither approaced the game in college like they will have to in the pros. This more than anything concerns me about them. They are not clean football character players like Warren Sapp who was a monster all the time on the field, despite his off field problems in college.

5. That gives them 2 strikes in character to me. It tells me that both guys are living on their natural talents and not attempting to be the best player they can be coming out. They are more concerned with getting theirs, than being the next probowl NFL player. That alone makes them a sketchy draft pick anywhere in the draft to me. The number of these guys who bust dramatically increases from the standard 50% of first rounders. Its like 90%, and those who do survive end up being Gerrard Warren on the field. A role player with a huge career price tag. This is NOT who I want on the DEN Broncos. There are simply too many Exceptional double Character good guys in this draft to even look in their direction for the DL.