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View Full Version : NO to trading down in the 1st


ZONA
01-14-2011, 01:51 PM
As much as we all know the draft is a crap shoot, there usually is at least a few players in the draft that are so much better then everybody else, you know these few players at the least will be solid NFL players and have a great chance at being elite players in the NFL.

For me, I think Peterson and Fairley are 2 players that have stud written all over them and at the very very worst I think they would be solid NFL starters. Been awhile since the Broncos were in position to land such a player. I don't think you could look at any other player in the draft and say with as much confidence they will be very good players.

As much as I like the concept of moving down to get more picks, I just don't think the Broncos should this year. They have a chance to land either of these 2 players and I think they should do just that. At this point, I don't care which one of them it is. I think both are at another level compared to everybody else.

schaaf
01-14-2011, 01:55 PM
I agree at the worst possible scenario I see these two just being starters the upside is tremendous. We can't trade down from our spot.

tsiguy96
01-14-2011, 01:57 PM
since when has having an elite, top 3 CB helped the denver defense in the last 5 years?

i think you see more and more over time that great CBs are a luxury, a great d line or schematic pressure is necessary.

Pick Six
01-14-2011, 01:58 PM
I don't want to trade down for more picks. Give me established NFL players, and we'll talk...:thumbs:

Rohirrim
01-14-2011, 01:59 PM
It depends on the deal. Some offers you can't refuse.

bombay
01-14-2011, 02:03 PM
If they could trade down to 5 or so and still get Darius, maybe. Broncos biggest need is an interior DL. Or two. Or three. Maybe Heyward and/or Liugit later.

Steve Sewell
01-14-2011, 02:03 PM
I agree.

What the Broncos need is an "impact" player on defense to complement players like Dumervil and Bailey. They can pick up more draft picks by trading Kyle Orton. I like Bannan. I think Ayers can be a very good pro player when healthy. DJ is a solid contributor. I think they need an impact player either on the d-line or at safety. By drafting a guy like Fairley, you get that on the d-line. By drafting a guy like Peterson, you can move Bailey over the FS and double your money!

I see the Broncos sticking at #2, trading Orton for a 2nd or 3rd rounder, and bringing in some of Fox's "guys" listed as free agents to fill other holes.

The only true need that I see on offense is a tight end at this point. I see them picking up a quality free agent running back that can share carries and/or take the bulk of the carries should Moreno go down again for extended periods of time. I like the offensive line as it is right now, they seemed to improve significantly as the season wore on and have the opportunity to be one of the better young lines in the NFL as they mature. I think WR goes without saying. And I think that Tebow at QB with an experienced veteran back up and a strong running game is more than adequate at this point with his ability to make plays and throw the deep ball.

Very excited about this draft and the future prospects for the Broncos under John Fox.

PRBronco
01-14-2011, 02:06 PM
It depends on the deal. Some offers you can't refuse.

I guess. It would have to be redonkulous though. Like if they wanted to trade us a second Tim Tebow.

Cito Pelon
01-14-2011, 02:09 PM
We don't know what will happen between now and then. It's a fluid situation.

ZONA
01-14-2011, 02:12 PM
since when has having an elite, top 3 CB helped the denver defense in the last 5 years?

i think you see more and more over time that great CBs are a luxury, a great d line or schematic pressure is necessary.

Certainly nobody here is ignorant enough to suggest that getting pressure on the QB doesn't go hand in hand with good CB play. Bu there are a few guys who can take the other teams best WR out of the game entirely. The problem the Broncos have had is that their DL wasn't even average. I think with an average DL, your CB's, if they are good enough, can give good results. With Doom on the shelf all year, that did hurt alot. He's capable of getting pressure, we all know that's a fact. A team might have to help block him, which could leave another lane open for another player.

I've got no problems with taking Fairley over Peterson. But if Fairley would go first to the Panthers, I would in a heart beat take Peterson rather then trade down to get more picks. I think the talent discrepancy after Fairley isn't that big and we can still land a solid DL player at the top of the 2nd round.

With the 2nd pick overall, I think you have to go BPA if you don't trade down. You can't draft for need there. And as I said, I think both of these guys are as close as you can get to "can't miss". Everybody else in this draft, I think that "miss" factor goes higher.

Steve Sewell
01-14-2011, 02:12 PM
Offense:

QB: Tebow
RB: Moreno/Free Agent
FB: Larsen
WR: Lloyd/Thomas
WR: Gaffney/Decker
Slot: Royal
Blocking TE: Graham/Quinn
Rec. Te: ??/Free Agent
LT: Clady
OG: Kuper
OG: Beadles/??
C: Walton
RT: Harris or Beadles

Defense (3-4):

OLB: Doom
OLB: Ayers
DE: Bannan
DE: Fairley
NT:??
ILB: DJ
ILB: ??/Mays/Haggan
FS: ??/Bailey
SS: ??/McBath/Bruton
CB: Bailey/??
CB: Teh Cox (he's not going to get convicted of anything)

Kaylore
01-14-2011, 02:13 PM
Well played, Cito.

Personally I would love to trade down. We have a lot of holes on this team and there will be more than one pro-bowler out of this draft class and they won't be in the top two picks or even the first round. We need quantity.

That said, unless it's a great deal, we should stay put.

ayjackson
01-14-2011, 02:14 PM
Definitely trade down.

If you can go from Fairley to Dareus or Peterson to Prince, AND add another top 40 player or more, you do it!!!!!

vancejohnson82
01-14-2011, 02:14 PM
since when has having an elite, top 3 CB helped the denver defense in the last 5 years?

i think you see more and more over time that great CBs are a luxury, a great d line or schematic pressure is necessary.

imagine how bad they would have been without Champ shutting down half the field

Steve Sewell
01-14-2011, 02:16 PM
Also, if the Broncos go with Bowers I think it's a sure sign they'll be going with a 4-3 defense.

Smiling Assassin27
01-14-2011, 02:18 PM
It depends on the deal. Some offers you can't refuse.

+1. Does the name Herschel Walker ring a bell? Make us an offer.

bendog
01-14-2011, 02:20 PM
So long as two qbs go in the top 5, moving down to 6 would probably be ok. We won't know till the combine, but I suspect Cam is gonna wow people and some team will want him before Buf.

RaiderH8r
01-14-2011, 02:20 PM
I trade Orton and Lloyd, if possible, for picks. Lloyd for a day 1 pick. I just think our holes are many and Lloyd may have peaked in production so we can get out while the stock is high. Orton just has to go lest we divide the locker room and we need picks and D more than we need an $8M backup.

As far as TE I say we let Tuten pull Graham's hamstring again, IR the f'er now and get on with life. GRRR.

Gcver2ver3
01-14-2011, 02:21 PM
We don't know what will happen between now and then. It's a fluid situation.

no fair...you beat me to it...

RaiderH8r
01-14-2011, 02:21 PM
So long as two qbs go in the top 5, moving down to 6 would probably be ok. We won't know till the combine, but I suspect Cam is gonna wow people and some team will want him before Buf.

I certainly hope Cam blows people away at the combine. I really, really do. Makes our spot all the more gravy.

ZONA
01-14-2011, 02:22 PM
Also, if the Broncos go with Bowers I think it's a sure sign they'll be going with a 4-3 defense.

A good point. That's why I love the idea of Fairley or Peterson. Either of those players can play in a 3-4 or 4-3. After Fairley, the other DL players I think are suited for or more then either.

If we were picking from 5-10, I would for sure say trade down because there are indeed holes to fill. But when you are picking #2 overall and there is GOING to be a player there that has "special" written all over him, I think you gotta take him, esp since there will now be a structured rookie cap. The problem with moving down and getting a few more players is, you could very easily end up with 2 Bannan's instead of 1 Fairley. Bannan is a good player but he's not a "special" player and the Broncos need to start adding some special players again. Not just good rotation guys.

bendog
01-14-2011, 02:24 PM
I hadn't thought about Lloyd, but you're right. I'm not sure of his value after his history of not working for several years. I don't think Orton has as much value as people are saying, and the best option for den is probably a conditional 2012 pick that gets us into the second round if he starts 12 games or throws 300 passes or something.

baja
01-14-2011, 02:26 PM
Well played, Cito.

Personally I would love to trade down. We have a lot of holes on this team and there will be more than one pro-bowler out of this draft class and they won't be in the top two picks or even the first round. We need quantity.

That said, unless it's a great deal, we should stay put.

What is your idea of a great deal?

Gcver2ver3
01-14-2011, 02:27 PM
It depends on the deal. Some offers you can't refuse.

this...

you can't be rigid on this...weigh out all your options...

but in general i agree...use the pick on hopefully an instant impact player on defense...

but if we can trade back to #5 or so...i'd certainly be all ears to the offer...

MABroncoFan
01-14-2011, 02:28 PM
Also, if the Broncos go with Bowers I think it's a sure sign they'll be going with a 4-3 defense.

I'd be a little surprised if they take Bowers even going w/ a 4-3. Dumervil is definitely one starting DE, and Ayers likely the other. He's still sort of an unknown, but he was coming on before he got hurt this year, and he was a 4-3 DE in college.

DT will be a bigger need area.

OBF1
01-14-2011, 02:29 PM
No no no...keep trading down, get more picks and end up with a ton of crap that we now call our Denver Broncos.

We have all the "Average" players any teams wants, Time to get Stud players that we need.

ZONA
01-14-2011, 02:30 PM
I hadn't thought about Lloyd, but you're right. I'm not sure of his value after his history of not working for several years. I don't think Orton has as much value as people are saying, and the best option for den is probably a conditional 2012 pick that gets us into the second round if he starts 12 games or throws 300 passes or something.

Mmmm, conditional 2012 pick probably is along the right lines of thinking but I think the team would also have to thrown in a current player only because we are talking about a QB position here. That single player has more to do with the outcome of a game then any other. Should Orton play well for his next team, certainly worth more then a 2nd round pick in 2012. Many teams now have 2 quality RB's so that's one position they could more easily thrown in then say a DL player.

Rohirrim
01-14-2011, 02:30 PM
I'm counting on Snyder going **** house crazy over Gabbert and trading us the Skins draft for the 2 pick, right from under Shanny's nose. ;D

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 02:31 PM
By trading down two spots we could secure high 2nd and 3rd rounders and still likely get Fairley, Peterson, or Bowers. If we can manage that trade it's a no-brainer. There are other trade scenarios that are likewise immensely beneficial to us in our rebuilding efforts. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to think we should stay at #2 if other options present themselves that will allow us to add several additional quality prospects to our roster. We are a rebuilding team after all.

Unfortunately, it probably isn't going to happen. The only way someone trades with us is for a QB, and I just don't see this crop of signal callers as having anyone that's going to draw that kind of attention.

MABroncoFan
01-14-2011, 02:31 PM
I trade Orton and Lloyd, if possible, for picks. Lloyd for a day 1 pick. I just think our holes are many and Lloyd may have peaked in production so we can get out while the stock is high. Orton just has to go lest we divide the locker room and we need picks and D more than we need an $8M backup.

As far as TE I say we let Tuten pull Graham's hamstring again, IR the f'er now and get on with life. GRRR.


If we go w/ a base offense w/ just 2 WR, then having 5 (Lloyd, Gaffney, Royal, Thomas, Decker) is a luxury and 1 could be dealt.

Only problem is that nobody can be dealt until a CBA is in place, and who knows if that will happen before the draft.

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 02:33 PM
I'm counting on Snyder going **** house crazy over Gabbert and trading us the Skins draft for the 2 pick, right from under Shanny's nose. ;D

Oh how sweet that would be. Wait, do they actually have any picks to give us? The Redskins traditionally trade all their picks for rotten peanuts and chewed bubble gum.

tsiguy96
01-14-2011, 02:34 PM
imagine how bad they would have been without Champ shutting down half the field

i hear this argument, but the 08 and 10 broncos were two of the worst defenses in NFL history. and he WAS shutting down half the field. doesnt matter if he takes their best WR out, it still leaves it 10 on 10, where denver still gets destroyed.

PRBronco
01-14-2011, 02:35 PM
I'd be a little surprised if they take Bowers even going w/ a 4-3. Dumervil is definitely one starting DE, and Ayers likely the other. He's still sort of an unknown, but he was coming on before he got hurt this year, and he was a 4-3 DE in college.

DT will be a bigger need area.

Just think of the Giants who had Strahan and Umenyora, then drafted Justin Tuck, then drafted Kiwanuka...then won the super bowl over a team that had never lost.

DrFate
01-14-2011, 02:36 PM
My biggest concern is the bust percentage of round 1 DLine players.

Fairley worries me from a boom/bust perspective

If the deal is there to add picks, I say go for it

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 02:38 PM
If we go w/ a base offense w/ just 2 WR, then having 5 (Lloyd, Gaffney, Royal, Thomas, Decker) is a luxury and 1 could be dealt.

Only problem is that nobody can be dealt until a CBA is in place, and who knows if that will happen before the draft.

God that would be terrible. We wouldn't be able to get rid of Orton, and we wouldn't be able to get extra picks. :gus:

Steve Sewell
01-14-2011, 02:39 PM
Wow...just wow...@ the people thinking we should trade Lloyd. The guy was probably the best player on the team this year.

worm
01-14-2011, 02:39 PM
I wish our suckage would have been this great last year.

I like players at the top of this draft....but not as much as I did last year with Suh. He was the obvious choice at #2 and a choice that made a no trade down in the first a no brainer for the Lions.

I don't think it is that clear cut this year at the same spot.

bendog
01-14-2011, 02:41 PM
I'd like to get Dareus, esp as it looks like they'll stick with the 3-4 at least initially, and Den only has 6 picks (grrrrrr) which is not the way to rebuild, but even if they ended up just swapping picks with Buf so Buf can have Cam, it'd be worth Buf's 4th (assuming they have one) Orton is defitely worth a 3rd. I love the idea of getting something for Lloyd ... anything really, since D.Thomas and Decker need to get on the field.

Den could get Dareus and improve to having ten picks with five in the top 100. That'd be a good start.

baja
01-14-2011, 02:41 PM
A good point. That's why I love the idea of Fairley or Peterson. Either of those players can play in a 3-4 or 4-3. After Fairley, the other DL players I think are suited for or more then either.

If we were picking from 5-10, I would for sure say trade down because there are indeed holes to fill. But when you are picking #2 overall and there is GOING to be a player there that has "special" written all over him, I think you gotta take him, esp since there will now be a structured rookie cap. The problem with moving down and getting a few more players is, you could very easily end up with 2 Bannan's instead of 1 Fairley. Bannan is a good player but he's not a "special" player and the Broncos need to start adding some special players again. Not just good rotation guys.

I agree with you. I think we should consider picking a #2 because every team needs that special player (hopefully one on D and one on O) and hopefully we won't be picking at the #2 slot again any time soon.

ZONA
01-14-2011, 02:41 PM
No no no...keep trading down, get more picks and end up with a ton of crap that we now call our Denver Broncos.

We have all the "Average" players any teams wants, Time to get Stud players that we need.

That's my thought.

I think most people just don't realize how much impact 1 awesome player can have on that side of the ball.

Even a single IMPACT player can change that side of the ball in a big way. Special attention has to be made for that 1 player and in the NFL, teams can exploit that extra consideration and fast. Now all of a sudden, you can do more things. Getting a guy such as Fairley now makes the guy next to him (say Bannan) more of an impact player himself. It all trickles down.

BUT you have to have that 1 guy who demands the special consideration. When he starts beating his guy on a consistent basis, now the other team has to start changing things. Forcing them out of what they want to do is always a good sign for your team.

I would love to have Fairley on this team. Williams in the middle with Bannan and Fairley, then having Doom there and Ayers. Now that's more like it.

The more I think about it, the more I like it. But if he's gone, I still like the idea of Champ to safety and Peterson. You can do alot with that setup also. You certainly could blitz alot more with the CB because now you have a safety who has top CB skills to pick up the coverage from the blitz side.

Both of these setups I think would be huge for the Broncos. Moving down and maybe ending up with another nice "rotation" guy would not make nearly the impact.

Mogulseeker
01-14-2011, 02:41 PM
I like Fairley, but at #2 I'll take Peterson.

A 6'2" 220 corner... we'll see how he does at the combine, but he seems like a very rare talent.

bpc
01-14-2011, 02:41 PM
I like our spot but do not agree. Say if New England has a hard on for Peterson, Green or whomever and they offer us their 2 first round picks and top 2nd round pick for our #2?

See ya baby, i'm out.

This draft seems fairly deep on the DL and we have MANY holes. We need to do what's going to bring this club up the fastest.

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 02:42 PM
Just think of the Giants who had Strahan and Umenyora, then drafted Justin Tuck, then drafted Kiwanuka...then won the super bowl over a team that had never lost.

Indeed. Two outside speed rushers and two hybrid rushers lined up on passing downs = a very bad day for a QB.

Hamrob
01-14-2011, 02:44 PM
I could understand this argument...if there were a Su or a Luck sitting there at the top of the draft. But, Fairley, Peterson aren't at that level in my book.

I'm all for trading down...between 5-10 and picking up an extra 2nd and 3rd. Heck, we still might be able to get Peterson there...or we could take a kid like Prince...who is probably the safer pick character wise.

Gcver2ver3
01-14-2011, 02:45 PM
Fairley or Bowers would make me a very happy man...

i wouldn't mind Peterson, but personally i'd never revamp a defense starting from the secondary in...i'd never pick a corner that high unless i had the luxury to do it...

top 5 picks IMO are reserved for QBs, Dline, and Oline (in that order)...because thats how you build a franchise...

Hamrob
01-14-2011, 02:46 PM
I like our spot but do not agree. Say if New England has a hard on for Peterson, Green or whomever and they offer us their 2 first round picks and top 2nd round pick for our #2?

See ya baby, i'm out.

This draft seems fairly deep on the DL and we have MANY holes. We need to do what's going to bring this club up the fastest.Well said! I'd love that trade with NE by the way. I think Heyward might end up being the best Dline guy in this draft in a couple of years...and we can get him around pick 20!

Hamrob
01-14-2011, 02:47 PM
Fairley or Bowers would make me a very happy man...

i wouldn't mind Peterson, but personally i'd never revamp a defense starting from the secondary in...i'd never pick a corner that high unless i had the luxury to do it...

top 5 picks IMO are reserved for QBs, Dline, and Oline (in that order)...because thats how you build a franchise...Again, well said. I agree.

Hamrob
01-14-2011, 02:48 PM
I like Fairley, but at #2 I'll take Peterson.

A 6'2" 220 corner... we'll see how he does at the combine, but he seems like a very rare talent.He's a safety in the NFL. Watch his hips. Top 5 pick is really a gamble for a cb.

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 02:49 PM
I like our spot but do not agree. Say if New England has a hard on for Peterson, Green or whomever and they offer us their 2 first round picks and top 2nd round pick for our #2?

See ya baby, i'm out.

This draft seems fairly deep on the DL and we have MANY holes. We need to do what's going to bring this club up the fastest.

They'd have to offer us more than that. The #17, the #32, and the #33 are only worth 2120 pts and the #2 is worth 2600 pts. I'd take Aaron Hernandez to round out the deal. :thumbsup:

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 02:51 PM
He's a safety in the NFL. Watch his hips. Top 5 pick is really a gamble for a cb.

More than that, the value just isn't there for the position. A CB is almost never going to have enough of an impact to justify a top 5 pick.

Hamrob
01-14-2011, 02:52 PM
No no no...keep trading down, get more picks and end up with a ton of crap that we now call our Denver Broncos.

We have all the "Average" players any teams wants, Time to get Stud players that we need.I totally disagree. I thought McD owned last years draft! And, I can't stand McD!

He got Thomas at #22...who many thought we were targeting at #11. Then he used the extra ammo he picked up to get Tebow at #25. Absolutely amazing job in my book.

Those two kids are definitely worth the risk and it's amazing we were able to wheel and deal to get both at the expense of our #11 pick.

I say...let's follow that blue-print!

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 02:53 PM
top 5 picks IMO are reserved for QBs, Dline, and Oline (in that order)...because thats how you build a franchise...

I hope you sent Xanders a memo, because you sir, know what you are talking about. :thumbsup:

Gcver2ver3
01-14-2011, 02:55 PM
I hope you sent Xanders a memo, because you sir, know what you are talking about. :thumbsup:

they said they'd call me...

unfortunately we both know what that means...:P

RaiderH8r
01-14-2011, 02:56 PM
Wow...just wow...@ the people thinking we should trade Lloyd. The guy was probably the best player on the team this year.

Arguably, yes he was. I just believe that it was an anomaly and he will regress in the years ahead. He can bring tremendous value right now.

strafen
01-14-2011, 02:59 PM
I totally disagree. I thought McD owned last years draft! And, I can't stand McD!

He got Thomas at #22...who many thought we were targeting at #11. Then he used the extra ammo he picked up to get Tebow at #25. Absolutely amazing job in my book.

Those two kids are definitely worth the risk and it's amazing we were able to wheel and deal to get both at the expense of our #11 pick.

I say...let's follow that blue-print!Whose blueprint?
Mcdaniels?
You've gotta be out of your freakin' mind, dude.
We need impact players.
Quality over quantity this time around...

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 03:05 PM
Whose blueprint?
Mcdaniels?
You've gotta be out of your freakin' mind, dude.
We need impact players.
Quality over quantity this time around...

He drafted Tebow. That has the impact of a meteor falling from heaven, thank you very much.

strafen
01-14-2011, 03:06 PM
Arguably, yes he was. I just believe that it was an anomaly and he will regress in the years ahead. He can bring tremendous value right now.Exactly.
Why hasn't the guy played at this level in his previous 7 year career?
This year was the first time Lloyd had more than 6 TD's in a season.
First time in his career he's gotten over 1000-yard receiving.

One more year before we can say...he is who we thought he was

bendog
01-14-2011, 03:07 PM
Arguably, yes he was. I just believe that it was an anomaly and he will regress in the years ahead. He can bring tremendous value right now.

Plus, you got D.Thomas, Decker, Gaffney, Royal

pokenation
01-14-2011, 03:08 PM
not sure why nobody else has suggested this, other than the obvious....but why not just sign champ (move to safety) sign asomugha (keep at corner) and draft fairly and then bring in some linebacker help.:thumbs:

sounds simple enough:thanku:

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 03:09 PM
Exactly.
Why hasn't the guy played at this level in his previous 7 year career?
This year was the first time Lloyd had more than 6 TD's in a season.
First time in his career he's gotten over 1000-yard receiving.

One more year before we can say...he is who we thought he was

I'd be more supportive if I knew what we had in Xanders running the show, and that we had a good chance of getting good value from the pick. Then again if Xanders sucks it probably doesn't matter because we're screwed anyway.

I wonder though if other teams are going to be leery of Lloyd for the exact same reasons.

Requiem
01-14-2011, 03:10 PM
Denver should absolutely entertain a trade down. There are plenty of players on defense who can come in at any point in round one and start immediately. If their names are not Fairley, Bowers or Peterson -- so be it. There is tremendous value up and down this draft. With the number of holes we have, we should consider any option to move down.

We can have both quantity and quality. They aren't mutually exclusive terms. Position yourself right to pick the best player you feel can help your team moving forward. I'd be happy with a blue-chipper.

Best case scenario, Denver trades down a little bit and gets one of their top targets and accumulates an extra pick or two in the process.

strafen
01-14-2011, 03:10 PM
He drafted Tebow. That has the impact of a meteor falling from heaven, thank you very much.That's not what I meant.
We could've drafted impact players on defense.
Look around and let me know if we have one impact player from the last 2 drafts.
Tebow, yes, I liked that pick, but by no means that was a clinic on how to draft anything.
We've got Tebow out of necessity. By the time our turn came around, he was the best QB in my mind available.
Never liked Mccoy or Claussen, though Clausen I thought could've been a good fit for our offense.
I'm glad it worked out the way it did...

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 03:11 PM
Plus, you got D.Thomas, Decker, Gaffney, Royal

And Willis as well. He looked quite promising in preseason.

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 03:12 PM
That's not what I meant.
We could've drafted impact players on defense.
Look around and let me know if we have one impact player from the last 2 drafts.
Tebow, yes, I liked that pick, but by no means that was a clinic on how to draft anything.
We've got Tebow out of necessity. By the time our turn came around, he was the best QB in my mind available.
Never liked Mccoy or Claussen, though Clausen I thought could've been a good fit for our offense.
I'm glad it worked out the way it did...

I was just joking. I knew what you meant.

broncocalijohn
01-14-2011, 03:12 PM
Either we trade Orton for a 2nd and keep where we are at #2 and be satisfied with the Top 2 rounds that we currently have. I dont mind dropping a few spots but I would like to get an established Pro player in that trade.

bendog
01-14-2011, 03:13 PM
I'd be more supportive if I knew what we had in Xanders running the show, and that we had a good chance of getting good value from the pick. Then again if Xanders sucks it probably doesn't matter because we're screwed anyway.

I wonder though if other teams are going to be leery of Lloyd for the exact same reasons.

leery yes, but den has no draft value tied to the guy, and at least he should yield a high 3rd rounder and some conditional value in 2012. Fox typically runs a run first offense and not a lot of 3 wr sets, and Den has probably more WR talent than any other position besides maybe qb.

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 03:17 PM
leery yes, but den has no draft value tied to the guy, and at least he should yield a high 3rd rounder and some conditional value in 2012. Fox typically runs a run first offense and not a lot of 3 wr sets, and Den has probably more WR talent than any other position besides maybe qb.

I'm not down with trading what appears to be our best WR for a 3rd rounder simply for fear that he'll revert. It's just as possible he won't. I can see a fairly high 2nd rounder being reasonable. Anything less and I'd rather not. While we can talk about our depth at WR all day, the truth is that two of our WRs have only shown glimpses of potential and nothing more. They're hardly sure things.

ColoradoDarin
01-14-2011, 03:20 PM
Unless someone blows us away with a great offer, I'd rather stay and draft Fairley, Peterson or Bowers (in that order). I really hope that Carolina goes WR or other offense (QB or OL) and leaves us our choice.

A lot is going to happen between now and the draft (assuming a new CBA), we're going to bring in some free agents - hopefully Michael Bush and Zach Miller so we're just needing late round draft depth on offense. Hopefully resign Champ & trade Orton. Bring in some of Fox free agents from Carolina. This team could change quite a bit, and depends on whether we stay with the 3-4 or move to the 4-3.

Have this discussion again the weeks leading up to the draft.

Que
01-14-2011, 03:31 PM
since when has having an elite, top 3 CB helped the denver defense in the last 5 years?

i think you see more and more over time that great CBs are a luxury, a great d line or schematic pressure is necessary.

I actually agree with you. Didn't used to be this way but with the new-ish rules protecting WR's, an All World CB isn't what it is cracked up to be anymore.

That being said, is Fairley going to be around say at #4? If so, why wouldn't you trade down? Is he a top 2 pick? I don't know jack about college ball.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-14-2011, 03:34 PM
Why are people even suggesting trading lloyd? He was only our best player last year. Jeez

TheChamp24
01-14-2011, 03:50 PM
My goodness people, tell me who is going to want to trade up to pick #2 to select a player there, and tell me that player.
To me, we won't be able to trade down because nobody will want to move up.
Personally, I think the BPA and best pick would be Peterson. Champ most likely will walk in free agency, Cox probably will be suspended, Goodman is average and we have a bunch of average at best young guys. Draft a future stud CB. Peterson to me is more value than any DL that early.

Que
01-14-2011, 03:53 PM
My goodness people, tell me who is going to want to trade up to pick #2 to select a player there, and tell me that player.
To me, we won't be able to trade down because nobody will want to move up.


Quoted for truth - unfortunately.

tsiguy96
01-14-2011, 03:55 PM
cant wait to see the OM on draft day. it will literally be a cant win situation for denver. if they draft peterson, half of the forum will hate the pick and cry that the future is done, xanders is tearing this team apart. if they take a DL, xanders is tearing this team apart because he didnt take BPA who may be peterson.

Drek
01-14-2011, 03:58 PM
What is your idea of a great deal?

Something that offers an impact on the 2012 draft as well for me personally.

I mean, if anyone offers us three picks in the top 50 just to get #2 then sure, you take it. But I believe New England is the only team with the ability to do that and it isn't their MO.

for other teams though it all depends how far we move back. Keep us in the top 5 and I'd be happy with a 2nd this year and a 3rd next year.

Moving back to 6-10 range? 2nd and 3rd this year, 2nd next year.

11-15? This year's 2nd and one 3-5 round pick in each of the next two years, plus their 2012 1st.

15-20? 2nd and 3rd this year. 2012 1st. 2012 2nd or 3rd depending on where they fall in that spectrum.

21+ 1st, 2nd, 3rd this year and next.

This is our chance to trade current value for more future value. Trading back for future picks in the NFL is the safest bet anyone on the planet can make. The value only appreciates.

If we can move back from #2 and in the process acquire more picks in both 2011 and 2012 we should jump on it. We can't view this as "lets have a big 2011 draft!" We need to see it as "lets lay the foundation for the next 5+ years of stellar drafting".

Cito Pelon
01-14-2011, 04:36 PM
Why are people even suggesting trading lloyd? He was only our best player last year. Jeez

Gotta make room for Thomas. I can see a scenario where the team tries to trade Lloyd.

baja
01-14-2011, 04:46 PM
My goodness people, tell me who is going to want to trade up to pick #2 to select a player there, and tell me that player.
To me, we won't be able to trade down because nobody will want to move up.
Personally, I think the BPA and best pick would be Peterson. Champ most likely will walk in free agency, Cox probably will be suspended, Goodman is average and we have a bunch of average at best young guys. Draft a future stud CB. Peterson to me is more value than any DL that early.

The only thing that might change that is if some QB impresses during the combine and someone wants to jump Buffalo.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-14-2011, 04:47 PM
Gotta make room for Thomas. I can see a scenario where the team tries to trade Lloyd.

No you don't. Play em both. They did last year, Thomas couldnt stay on the friggin field. This is absurd. You KEEP Brandon Lloyd

DarkHorse
01-14-2011, 04:57 PM
cant wait to see the OM on draft day. it will literally be a cant win situation for denver. if they draft peterson, half of the forum will hate the pick and cry that the future is done, xanders is tearing this team apart. if they take a DL, xanders is tearing this team apart because he didnt take BPA who may be peterson.


I'm with this guy.

ZONA
01-14-2011, 05:01 PM
No you don't. Play em both. They did last year, Thomas couldnt stay on the friggin field. This is absurd. You KEEP Brandon Lloyd

Yep - I'd sooner trade Jabar then I would Brandon. The guy has the best footwork of any WR in the league and his hands are pretty sure also. Solid route runner, good enough speed, can make the tough catch as good as any WR in the league, and he's only in his 8th year. He's got plenty of football left him. People are talking like this guy is in his 12th season or something.

footstepsfrom#27
01-14-2011, 05:08 PM
since when has having an elite, top 3 CB helped the denver defense in the last 5 years?

i think you see more and more over time that great CBs are a luxury, a great d line or schematic pressure is necessary.
Silly logic. We had a great corner, and we did'nt win so it must mean CB's are unimportant. Brilliant...we had a coach too, did we win a championship? No? Guess we don't need a coach either then.

FireFly
01-14-2011, 05:11 PM
I don't think anyone is going to want to trade for our pick.

All these trade scenarios, I think we'll look for a partner and end up picking 2nd.

Just my opinion.

footstepsfrom#27
01-14-2011, 05:13 PM
The more playmakers you have on defense, the better off you are. We need playmakers reguardless of position. In this draft, it's obvious the most dynamic are Peterson and Fairley. Of the two of them, the guy most equipped to seperate himself from the rest of those at the postiion is Peterson. I don't see how we can lose either way unless we start trying to get cute and trade down picking up a bunch of junk instead of just taking the diamond sitting there. We could also do something stupid and pick AJ Green I guess.

mattob14
01-14-2011, 05:33 PM
Denver should absolutely entertain a trade down. There are plenty of players on defense who can come in at any point in round one and start immediately. If their names are not Fairley, Bowers or Peterson -- so be it. There is tremendous value up and down this draft. With the number of holes we have, we should consider any option to move down.

We can have both quantity and quality. They aren't mutually exclusive terms. Position yourself right to pick the best player you feel can help your team moving forward. I'd be happy with a blue-chipper.

Best case scenario, Denver trades down a little bit and gets one of their top targets and accumulates an extra pick or two in the process.

I completely agree with everything you said here. The strength of this draft isn't at the top, it's in the depth, particularly at DL and CB. Building off of this and Drek's post, I'd love to see a situation where Newton or Gabbert separate themselves and AZ is willing to move up ahead of Buffalo to secure them. I could see the draft playing out in the following way:

1. Car- Fairley
2. Den trades #2 to AZ for #5, #40, 2012 3rd. AZ selects-Gabbert/Newton
3. Buf- Amukamara
4. Cin- Green
5. Den trades #5 to Dal for #9 and #71. Dal selects- Peterson
6. Cle- Dareus
7. SF- Gabbert/Newton
8. Ten- Mallett
9. Den- Bowers

That's probably too many QB's in the top-10, but there are several teams in that range desperate for QB help. Even if Bowers were to be gone by #9, Denver gets their choice of Quinn/Watt/Paea/Heyward/Jordan (even though it may be a little early for a couple of these guys). That's #9, #40, #71, and a 2012 3rd for #2. I'd happily take those and jump-start the rebuild.

yerner
01-14-2011, 05:40 PM
Why would anybody trade up with the broncos when they could just trade up with Carolina, who is now dying to trade the pick? Also, Orton can't be traded until a new CBA.

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 05:45 PM
Why would anybody trade up with the broncos when they could just trade up with Carolina, who is now dying to trade the pick? Also, Orton can't be traded until a new CBA.

It would cost more first of all. Also the only reason to trade with us is to jump ahead of Buffalo, and that would be done after Carolina picked. As it is, I doubt anyone trades with us as it would likely take a big-time QB for a team to make such a move, but it's possible.

Agamemnon
01-14-2011, 05:47 PM
I completely agree with everything you said here. The strength of this draft isn't at the top, it's in the depth, particularly at DL and CB. Building off of this and Drek's post, I'd love to see a situation where Newton or Gabbert separate themselves and AZ is willing to move up ahead of Buffalo to secure them. I could see the draft playing out in the following way:

1. Car- Fairley
2. Den trades #2 to AZ for #5, #40, 2012 3rd. AZ selects-Gabbert/Newton
3. Buf- Amukamara
4. Cin- Green
5. Den trades #5 to Dal for #9 and #71. Dal selects- Peterson
6. Cle- Dareus
7. SF- Gabbert/Newton
8. Ten- Mallett
9. Den- Bowers

That's probably too many QB's in the top-10, but there are several teams in that range desperate for QB help. Even if Bowers were to be gone by #9, Denver gets their choice of Quinn/Watt/Paea/Heyward/Jordan (even though it may be a little early for a couple of these guys). That's #9, #40, #71, and a 2012 3rd for #2. I'd happily take those and jump-start the rebuild.

Err...you have Amukamara going at #3 and Peterson going at #5? Seriously?

Cito Pelon
01-14-2011, 05:52 PM
No you don't. Play em both. They did last year, Thomas couldnt stay on the friggin field. This is absurd. You KEEP Brandon Lloyd

Just being a jerk.

Rohirrim
01-14-2011, 06:02 PM
Trading Lloyd? :hitself:

broncogary
01-14-2011, 06:11 PM
They'd have to offer us more than that. The #17, the #32, and the #33 are only worth 2120 pts and the #2 is worth 2600 pts. I'd take Aaron Hernandez to round out the deal. :thumbsup:

I'd have to think that with a rookie salary cap the point system for trades would be revised giving more value to higher picks since you no longer have to pay such outrageous starting contracts to the higher picks.

Hamrob
01-14-2011, 06:52 PM
Whose blueprint?
Mcdaniels?
You've gotta be out of your freakin' mind, dude.
We need impact players.
Quality over quantity this time around...No, I think you must not have read my posts clearly enough.

We used our #11 pick to get both Thomas and Tebow. Thomas was the guy we were targeting at 11...anyway! The issue about whether we should have drafted defense instead of offense...is an entirely different discussion.

I do not believe that the top guys in this draft are "Can't miss" prospects such as a Su or a Luck. Fairley, Bowers, Peterson are similiar in talent and potential...as these guys:

Watt, Dareus, Quinn, Ayers, Aldon Smith, Amukamura, Von Miller, Paea, Jordon, Kerrigan, clayborn, Heyward, Rudolph...etc. I believe that these guys will turn out to be equally as good pros as Bowers, Fairley & Peterson.

So, why the hell wouldn't we want to have 2 or maybe 3 of these guys...rather than one of Fairley, Bowers or Peterson.

Again....I DO NOT think they are elite talent.

Clear enough for you smart guy???

RaiderH8r
01-14-2011, 07:06 PM
My goodness people, tell me who is going to want to trade up to pick #2 to select a player there, and tell me that player.
To me, we won't be able to trade down because nobody will want to move up.
Personally, I think the BPA and best pick would be Peterson. Champ most likely will walk in free agency, Cox probably will be suspended, Goodman is average and we have a bunch of average at best young guys. Draft a future stud CB. Peterson to me is more value than any DL that early.

Show me a CB anywhere in the world that can cover an NFL 1 receiver for 5 plus seconds on any given down and stop the run and force plays at the line and you might have a point. Since that doesn't exist a DL is the way to go. QB pressure has a way of making average dbs into good ones.

mattob14
01-14-2011, 07:41 PM
Err...you have Amukamara going at #3 and Peterson going at #5? Seriously?

There have been a few rumors that Buffalo is really high on him. If that's true, yeah, it only takes one team. We still have a long way to go but I think the two CBs will be rated closer than people think come draft day.

ZONA
01-14-2011, 09:30 PM
I completely agree with everything you said here. The strength of this draft isn't at the top, it's in the depth, particularly at DL and CB. Building off of this and Drek's post, I'd love to see a situation where Newton or Gabbert separate themselves and AZ is willing to move up ahead of Buffalo to secure them. I could see the draft playing out in the following way:

1. Car- Fairley
2. Den trades #2 to AZ for #5, #40, 2012 3rd. AZ selects-Gabbert/Newton
3. Buf- Amukamara
4. Cin- Green
5. Den trades #5 to Dal for #9 and #71. Dal selects- Peterson
6. Cle- Dareus
7. SF- Gabbert/Newton
8. Ten- Mallett
9. Den- Bowers

That's probably too many QB's in the top-10, but there are several teams in that range desperate for QB help. Even if Bowers were to be gone by #9, Denver gets their choice of Quinn/Watt/Paea/Heyward/Jordan (even though it may be a little early for a couple of these guys). That's #9, #40, #71, and a 2012 3rd for #2. I'd happily take those and jump-start the rebuild.

Don't think AZ is going to trade up for a QB. They have a ton of holes to fill and will want all of their picks. Skelton showed just enough to force them to take a longer look. They themselves could be looking at trading down if they could still land Newton and pick up an additional pick.

ayjackson
01-14-2011, 11:01 PM
I'd have to think that with a rookie salary cap the point system for trades would be revised giving more value to higher picks since you no longer have to pay such outrageous starting contracts to the higher picks.

err, no....the value chart will be relevant again for the top 5-10 picks. It became irrelevant as guaranteed money escalated at the top of the first round. And so far to me, the tiers of talent this year don`t seem as pronounced at the top of the draft, so I don`t think teams will offer up too much to move up.

Vegas_Bronco
01-14-2011, 11:17 PM
Wow this thread contains a draft analysis...a depth chart for 2011...and 25 contingency plans for trading back. Time seems to be our only hold up.

Steve Sewell
01-14-2011, 11:23 PM
Just out of curiosity...does anyone have an opinion on Jamal Williams? I know he's under contract for next season but I didn't notice anything spectacular out of him this year.

Steve Sewell
01-14-2011, 11:23 PM
Wow this thread contains a draft analysis...a depth chart for 2011...and 25 contingency plans for trading back. Time seems to be our only hold up.

Yes! Hopefully Xanders has been debriefed on the contents of this thread.

UberBroncoMan
01-14-2011, 11:40 PM
I want us to trade Orton for a 2nd and trade down for an extra 2nd. A 1st and FOUR 2nd's, plus a 3rd should be just what we need and we don't really lose much out of it. We get to stack our aging defense with young talent.

Don't forget either. McBath was pretty damn good in college and he's never had much of a shot here. He could be a hidden gem. He was a 2nd round pick you know.

Jesterhole
01-15-2011, 09:52 AM
I'm starting to agree that we don't need Peterson. I'm sure he is a great player, but we've had Champ for a while now, and he couldn't have much of an impact since our front seven couldn't get any pressure or stop the run.

We need defensive line help worse than anything.

Mediator12
01-15-2011, 10:00 AM
How about we stop making broad generalizations that have zero basis 4 months before the draft? No one has any idea what happens before then and this year is the most weird as their is no CBA, no idea of what a rookie wage scale will look like, and no idea what kind of staff DEN or other teams have yet.


There are just way too many variables to say with any reliability what DEN should, could, or would want to do 4 months from now.

CEH
01-15-2011, 10:12 AM
How about we stop making broad generalizations that have zero basis 4 months before the draft? No one has any idea what happens before then and this year is the most weird as their is no CBA, no idea of what a rookie wage scale will look like, and no idea what kind of staff DEN or other teams have yet.


There are just way too many variables to say with any reliability what DEN should, could, or would want to do 4 months from now.

This is true to an extent but it's not like we have the #10 pick with tons of variables. We know all the players available at #2 is except for one out of 335. Rookie scale has nothing to do with whose available at #2.

Outside of trades which can never be predicted anyways no matter how close you are to draft day I think I like my odds that I can narrow down the group of players Denver might select

mattob14
01-15-2011, 10:23 AM
How about we stop making broad generalizations that have zero basis 4 months before the draft? No one has any idea what happens before then and this year is the most weird as their is no CBA, no idea of what a rookie wage scale will look like, and no idea what kind of staff DEN or other teams have yet.


There are just way too many variables to say with any reliability what DEN should, could, or would want to do 4 months from now.

Of course we can't say with any reliability what's going to happen in April, after the Senior Bowl...and Combine...and personal workouts...things are going to change, and change again between now and draft day. For the next several months, we've got nothing to do but speculate, but hey, it's something to do to kill the time until we have some real news on personnel decisions.

Mediator12
01-15-2011, 10:41 AM
This is true to an extent but it's not like we have the #10 pick with tons of variables. We know all the players available at #2 is except for one out of 335. Rookie scale has nothing to do with whose available at #2.

Outside of trades which can never be predicted anyways no matter how close you are to draft day I think I like my odds that I can narrow down the group of players Denver might select

The draft position is all we know right now. Things we do not know:

1. No CBA means no FA. No CBA, no trading players before the draft. No FA, means the draft occurs before FA in the league calendar next year. Usually, teams have been able to fill holes through FA before the draft. That is a big reason this year will be different. The process may well be reversed, and it has never happened that way before.

2. Rookie scale will affect the trade values of players at the top of the draft. It was almost impossible to trade the top pick in the draft the last 5 years with the huge contracts associated with the pick. Now, a Rookie wage scale will make it possible and more valuable than the previous draft chart value. The value placed on top selections in the draft will influence the value you can get for a top pick.

3. The overall draft grades of all the players. The rankings now will be very different come the draft. CAR is the only team that really holds all the cards in their hand. What if Blaine Gabbert pulls the Sam Bradford in workouts and vaults to the Number one pick for CAR?

4. What systems are CAR and DEN going to run? That makes a huge difference in talent acquisition. Is DEN a 3-4 or 4-3 team on defense? That makes a huge difference.

5. Players can get hurt in training, nothing is a lock until the draft actually comes. That is existing players and draftable players. Injuries will happen before the draft.



The thread asks us to believe that DEN should NOT trade down in the first. The above reasons are why we should not be hasty to consider a move until these things get resolved. Otherwise, you are not taking all variables into consideration.

mattob14
01-15-2011, 10:45 AM
Don't think AZ is going to trade up for a QB. They have a ton of holes to fill and will want all of their picks. Skelton showed just enough to force them to take a longer look. They themselves could be looking at trading down if they could still land Newton and pick up an additional pick.

There's a good chance they don't. I'm not trying to predict the top-10 in the draft, just show the potential value that could be had in trading down from #2. And, at least per the value chart, that's trading down at a discount in both deals. I added the "mock draft" to put some context around the deals, but that's all it is- a quick example.

Dedhed
01-15-2011, 11:08 AM
since when has having an elite, top 3 CB helped the denver defense in the last 5 years?

Umm..in every single one of the last 5 years having Champ has been a tremendous help. This idea that because the defense has been terrible with Champ on the roster, a CB is no longer valuable is just plain retarded.

Using your logic, we can play this moronic game: "How has having Mario Williams helped the Houston defense the last 5 years?"

Agamemnon
01-15-2011, 11:19 AM
Umm..in every single one of the last 5 years having Champ has been a tremendous help. This idea that because the defense has been terrible with Champ on the roster, a CB is no longer valuable is just plain retarded.

Using your logic, we can play this moronic game: "How has having Mario Williams helped the Houston defense the last 5 years?"

Champ's value has been severely diminished by having a poor defensive front. This is true of all corners. It's like having a great running back behind a garbage offensive line.

Hamrob
01-15-2011, 01:07 PM
Teams just don't draft CB's in the top 5. QB's, Dline, Oline...unless there is an absolute freak...like Deione Sanders. That's not Peterson or Amukamora in my opinion. They are more suited to go between 5-10. They are great college players who project as solid NFL starters. Although I could see a team like the Bengals reach at #4 for one of the two.

However, if we don't resign Bailey...I won't b**** if we take Peterson. I think the #2 pick is a big reach for a CB...but, without Bailey...it will be a huge need position.

My dream? Let Champ walk...sign Asomugha. Champ will cost us $6m/yr. minimum....Asomugha probably $12m/yr. Champ will have to be a Safety at this point in his career. Aso is in the top 2 CB's (with Revis) and will remain there for the next 5-7yrs.

Options:

Champ - $20m for 3or4 years
Aso - $70m for 5 or 6yrs
Peterson - $50m for 5yrs
Amukamora - $40m for 5yrs (trade down)

peacepipe
01-15-2011, 01:56 PM
Champ's value has been severely diminished by having a poor defensive front. This is true of all corners. It's like having a great running back behind a garbage offensive line.

His value has gone up when you consider the poor performance of the front 7and champ still shut down opposing WRs.

Agamemnon
01-15-2011, 02:03 PM
His value has gone up when you consider the poor performance of the front 7and champ still shut down opposing WRs.

In terms of helping us win? Not really. In terms of illustrating how good he is? Sure.

To keep up the running back behind a bad line analogy, it's like a back constantly making people miss in the backfield and getting back to the line of the scrimmage. It shows that they are a great back, but the run game is still crap. When Champ locks down one guy while the QB is constantly finding an open man due to no pressure, it shows that Champ is a great corner, but the pass defense is still crap.

CEH
01-15-2011, 02:22 PM
The draft position is all we know right now. Things we do not know:

1. No CBA means no FA. No CBA, no trading players before the draft. No FA, means the draft occurs before FA in the league calendar next year. Usually, teams have been able to fill holes through FA before the draft. That is a big reason this year will be different. The process may well be reversed, and it has never happened that way before.

2. Rookie scale will affect the trade values of players at the top of the draft. It was almost impossible to trade the top pick in the draft the last 5 years with the huge contracts associated with the pick. Now, a Rookie wage scale will make it possible and more valuable than the previous draft chart value. The value placed on top selections in the draft will influence the value you can get for a top pick.

3. The overall draft grades of all the players. The rankings now will be very different come the draft. CAR is the only team that really holds all the cards in their hand. What if Blaine Gabbert pulls the Sam Bradford in workouts and vaults to the Number one pick for CAR?

4. What systems are CAR and DEN going to run? That makes a huge difference in talent acquisition. Is DEN a 3-4 or 4-3 team on defense? That makes a huge difference.

5. Players can get hurt in training, nothing is a lock until the draft actually comes. That is existing players and draftable players. Injuries will happen before the draft.



The thread asks us to believe that DEN should NOT trade down in the first. The above reasons are why we should not be hasty to consider a move until these things get resolved. Otherwise, you are not taking all variables into consideration.

I gotta admit I missed the thread title. Thought this was just one of the 100s of draft threads

I expect a trade down as Xanders is already on record as saying they would like more picks

Agamemnon
01-15-2011, 02:23 PM
I gotta admit I missed the thread title. Thought this was just one of the 100s of draft threads

I expect a trade down as Xanders is already on record as saying they would like more picks

I think they will definitely try. Just not sure anyone will want to trade up.

SoCalBronco
01-15-2011, 02:24 PM
I expect a trade down as Xanders is already on record as saying they would like more picks

At least he has some brain function...good job, son.

Now go make yourself useful and head down to Old Chicago. Coach Fox is hungry.

NFLBRONCO
01-15-2011, 02:32 PM
At least he has some brain function...good job, son.

Now go make yourself useful and head down to Old Chicago. Coach Fox is hungry.

LOL

Just a question how much (realistic please) could we get going from 2 to 5?

SoCalBronco
01-15-2011, 02:37 PM
LOL

Just a question how much (realistic please) could we get going from 2 to 5?

Depends on who people want, how badly they want them and how much below equivalent chart value we're willing to accept. I hope we could get a 2nd for that, but not sure. IMO, if the CBA gets done and revamps high pick contracts, the No. 2 pick will be even more attractive to other teams.

OrangeSe7en
01-15-2011, 02:39 PM
As much as we all know the draft is a crap shoot, there usually is at least a few players in the draft that are so much better then everybody else, you know these few players at the least will be solid NFL players and have a great chance at being elite players in the NFL.

For me, I think Peterson and Fairley are 2 players that have stud written all over them and at the very very worst I think they would be solid NFL starters. Been awhile since the Broncos were in position to land such a player. I don't think you could look at any other player in the draft and say with as much confidence they will be very good players.

As much as I like the concept of moving down to get more picks, I just don't think the Broncos should this year. They have a chance to land either of these 2 players and I think they should do just that. At this point, I don't care which one of them it is. I think both are at another level compared to everybody else.

Id rather have Akeem Ayers than Patrick Peterson. If Fairley isnt there, I wouldnt necessarily be opposed to Bowers but if neither of them, they should trade down for a front 7 player. Akeem Ayers is also a stud.

Requiem
01-15-2011, 04:14 PM
The one thing that could also (potentially) give us some value with out second pick, outside the possibilities of the quarterbacks moving up the boards and impressing (perhaps any other player) is that this is generally regarded as a weak senior class.

According to Mayock, an NFL scout said that last years draft was pretty exceptional given you had first round graded talent for most the whole round, if not more. The random scout quoted this year seems to be saying first round grades in this class drop by the late teens to twenties. That is why you are seeing so many juniors declare (and probably with the ambiguity regarding the CBA) this year

I think the talent level in draft outside a few positions is pretty weak. The great thing for us is there is no better time than now do address our DL and this class will have solid players through the first three rounds at each position that would be better than who we have now.

Mediator is right, there are just too many variables. I'm not even going to do a mock draft until I actually know who is on our defense and what direction they are going. Too many variables for even solid speculation.

Denver724
01-15-2011, 04:46 PM
I like Fairley, but at #2 I'll take Peterson.

A 6'2" 220 corner... we'll see how he does at the combine, but he seems like a very rare talent.

Reminds me too much of Lenny Walls.

oubronco
01-15-2011, 04:50 PM
I'm just glad we can get a impact player with our pick for a change

Denver724
01-15-2011, 04:51 PM
My goodness people, tell me who is going to want to trade up to pick #2 to select a player there, and tell me that player.
To me, we won't be able to trade down because nobody will want to move up.
Personally, I think the BPA and best pick would be Peterson. Champ most likely will walk in free agency, Cox probably will be suspended, Goodman is average and we have a bunch of average at best young guys. Draft a future stud CB. Peterson to me is more value than any DL that early.

Gabbert is going to be a hot commodity leading to the draft. He either goes number one or will be sitting there at two. The Bills, Cardinals and 49ers will all be calling (and we will only move down a few slots). And if the Panthers take him we take the DT or trade down. Let's hope Gabbert is there.

RhymesayersDU
01-15-2011, 05:44 PM
Really still don't understand the Peterson fanboys on this board. It's like watching a movie over and over again and expecting a different ending.

We have seen the Peterson movie; it's called Champ Bailey. Now don't get me wrong, I love Champ. I've been proud to wear his jersey for the past 6 years. Tremendous player and will be in the HOF wearing a Bronco jersey.

But you can't deny that our team defense has been garbage overall every year except the one year he had like 10 INTs. We haven't been able to get pressure on the QB, stop the run, or stop anybody in general for years. Putting a stud CB behind bad players upfront won't change the outcome.

Again, not denying Champ's greatness or the need for skill at the position. But we've seen how this will play out. Need to build the DLine and LBs.

Agamemnon
01-15-2011, 06:23 PM
LOL

Just a question how much (realistic please) could we get going from 2 to 5?

If someone wants to trade up we should be able to get a 2nd and a 3rd out of it. Bare minimum would be a 2nd and a 3rd in 2012.

peacepipe
01-15-2011, 06:47 PM
Reminds me too much of Lenny Walls.

you might want to actually look at the 2 before making an comparison like that.

Denver724
01-15-2011, 07:19 PM
you might want to actually look at the 2 before making an comparison like that.

Not a real fan of tall CB's. I would rather trade down and take Prince (if a CB is targeted).