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View Full Version : How Long Has Elway Known He Was Hiring Fox?


Drek
01-14-2011, 05:57 AM
Consider these factoids:

1. Mularkey and Williams both deferred to interview, at least during the "initial phase", for their own somewhat valid reasons. But both are well connected around the league and likely in the known a lot more than any reporter would be.

2. Fox's interview just happened to be pushed back until everyone else had been interviewed.

3. While Bowlen was supposedly present in every interview the Fox one is the only video upload where you see Pat in the room at the very start.

4. Fox referenced knowing John and John's father in his video session on the way to interview, hinting at a long term relationship of some kind.

5. The supposed "second phase of interviews" just disappeared overnight after interviewing Fox.

6. Contract negotiations were apparently resolved to the point of announcing a deal within 24 hours of his first interview.

Add in little tidbits like how Fox's video interview sounded like a man who already had the job and was ready to go to work, the fact that he showed up wearing team colors (blue shirt and orange tie) for the interview, all the candidates we interviewed were coordinators who had never been a full season NFL HC. etc..

Can't help but feel like Elway knew where he was going from the start, that he had already talked with Fox on at least some level before the interview, likely before even receiving permission from Carolina, since that only just came down at about the beginning of the week or so. Feels like Elway was just biding his time until Fox was free to sign.

TonyR
01-14-2011, 06:02 AM
Very possible and I wouldn't be surprised if some elements of your "theory" are accurate. Although it's also possible that after talking to Fox it was very clear that he was the best candidate and they wanted to get it done and start moving forward as soon as possible. I will comment that his interview being delayed because of the weather in Charlotte is 100% legit.

RunSilentRunDeep
01-14-2011, 06:06 AM
Yes, Elway made it snow in the East!! Also, it's standard that contract parameters are discussed before interviews to make sure everyone's time isn't being wasted. Obviously there was research and talks with every candidate outside those meetings but I don't think you need to go through the circus of bringing in Koetter, Dennison and Fewell just for the sake of it.

broncswin
01-14-2011, 06:07 AM
but...but...nobody wants to coach the broncos...lol. It just baffles me that people really think that. Then the most qualified, best choice for the job ends up here.

Dukes
01-14-2011, 06:08 AM
With the exception of Fox's interview being pushed back to give other guys time I'd say you're on to something.

broncswin
01-14-2011, 06:08 AM
Yes, Elway made it snow in the East!! Also, it's standard that contract parameters are discussed before interviews to make sure everyone's time isn't being wasted. Obviously there was research and talks with every candidate outside those meetings but I don't think you need to go through the circus of bringing in Koetter, Dennison and Fewell just for the sake of it.
Actually, you do have to go through the motions...this is a business move.

RunSilentRunDeep
01-14-2011, 06:13 AM
[/B]
Actually, you do have to go through the motions...this is a business move.

Really? How many coaches did the Browns, Panthers, Cowboys and Vikings interview? Nobody in Denver had heard of Koetter, you really think they brought him in to please the masses?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-14-2011, 06:13 AM
Yes, Elway made it snow in the East!! Also, it's standard that contract parameters are discussed before interviews to make sure everyone's time isn't being wasted. Obviously there was research and talks with every candidate outside those meetings but I don't think you need to go through the circus of bringing in Koetter, Dennison and Fewell just for the sake of it.

Are you kidding?

**** yes you bring them all in, even if you know who you're going with. The mane would absolutely implode if we just interviewed and hired Fox without talking to a single other coach. The Post boards, every message board, the national media, would all have a field day with that.

I've done hiring where I knew who I wanted, what I was looking for, and still interviewed others. It wasn't a waste of time. I think it was a worthwhile exercise.

RunSilentRunDeep
01-14-2011, 06:15 AM
Are you kidding?

**** yes you bring them all in, even if you know who you're going with. The mane would absolutely implode if we just interviewed and hired Fox without talking to a single other coach. The Post boards, every message board, the national media, would all have a field day with that.

I've done hiring where I knew who I wanted, what I was looking for, and still interviewed others. It wasn't a waste of time. I think it was a worthwhile exercise.

Yeah, fear the message boards. Where's the uproar in the other cities?

ColoradoDarin
01-14-2011, 06:16 AM
Eh, I don't think it was totally planned ahead, but I think they were leaning his way prior to face-to-face interviews. There's a lot that goes into just getting to the interview phase. Additionally, I don't think Elway made Charlotte get snowed in. And Fox wearing Bronco colors to the interview? Just smart!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-14-2011, 06:17 AM
Yeah, fear the message boards. Where's the uproar in the other cities?

The other cities didn't just go through a major front office shakeup, firing a coach before the end of the season.

The other cities' fanbases haven't been as split as the one in Denver. Not even close.

But sure. It's a waste of time to interview multiple people for a job even if you know the person or direction you want to go with. You don't run a business, do you?

As for the message boards, I don't think it's fear. I think it's respect. Message boards are a pretty good litmus test for how the diehards are leaning, and if you capture the hearts and minds of the diehards, you can easily capture the rest. These days, ignore the power of the internet at your own peril.

worm
01-14-2011, 06:25 AM
Stop reading that conspiracy thread Drek. It doesn't have to be that complicated.

The Broncos are not a great fit for every HC. People not wanting to interview here is not part of some vast plan that was discovered by potential interviewees. We just aren't desirable to some candidates....like Atlanta after the Vick and Patrino fiascoes.

The Broncos didn't make it snow

Fox did a great job at interviewing. He wore orange...mentioned John's dad....basically did everything he could to endear himself to the brass. Great tactics for a detail oriented man.

RunSilentRunDeep
01-14-2011, 06:28 AM
The other cities didn't just go through a major front office shakeup, firing a coach before the end of the season.

The other cities' fanbases haven't been as split as the one in Denver. Not even close.

But sure. It's a waste of time to interview multiple people for a job even if you know the person or direction you want to go with. You don't run a business, do you?

As for the message boards, I don't think it's fear. I think it's respect. Message boards are a pretty good litmus test for how the diehards are leaning, and if you capture the hearts and minds of the diehards, you can easily capture the rest. These days, ignore the power of the internet at your own peril.

I've hired many people. I think you're getting a little excited. I simply disagree with the notion Fox was a forgone conclusion. Citing his interview was pushed back as an example was silly. I believe the other candidates were brought in because they were under real consideration. Maybe the bar for them was higher, but they weren't PR moves.

Also, have you really done a study on the fan bases in Cleveland, Carolina, Dallas and Minnesota? And Dallas and Minny did have in-season firings. You don't think Clevelanders are sick of the failure there and may not be into the old buddy network that led to Shurmur?

Drek
01-14-2011, 06:31 AM
I will comment that his interview being delayed because of the weather in Charlotte is 100% legit.

I'm not saying the reason it was pushed back wasn't legit, just the point where it was pushed back to is interesting. Not the day before Koetter and Dennison, who interviewed on the same day, but instead the day after. They set the dates for Koetter and Dennison after they knew Fox' interview was pushed back.

Had Charlotte not been snow bound its likely the dog and pony show would have included a "second interview" for Fox. As it stood though he'd already been bumped back a few days and they wanted to get assistants in place.

Hell, rumors of him bringing Jim Mora and a couple of his assistants in Carolina are already starting up.

I'm not saying its a bad thing. In fact, being able to work a back room deal like that successfully under the radar is a major key to Elway being a good NFL exec.. It's just interesting (to me) that we probably just saw the first real high level NFL move of Elway's career as VP.

Kaylore
01-14-2011, 06:35 AM
Yes, Elway made it snow in the East!! Also, it's standard that contract parameters are discussed before interviews to make sure everyone's time isn't being wasted. Obviously there was research and talks with every candidate outside those meetings but I don't think you need to go through the circus of bringing in Koetter, Dennison and Fewell just for the sake of it.

I don't believe this theory that we just went through the motions with the other guys, necessarily. However I can believe he was the front runner considering what Elway said he wants (previous head coaching experience in college or pro) in a coach. The reason you bring other candidates in is to do your due diligence, and at the very least you get a free scouting report out of it so you can see what other people around the league think of your team and what needs to be addressed. That information alone is worth the interview, even a "fake" one.

Drek
01-14-2011, 06:37 AM
Yeah, fear the message boards. Where's the uproar in the other cities?

1. Elway has explicitly outlined "getting back in touch with the fans" as a key focus going forward. "Touch points" and all that. Giving the fans a look into a "full disclosure" coaching search is a good way to go about that.

2. NFL teams are required to interview minority candidates, and multiple times we've seen organizations interview people when their "guy" was already pretty clear to give the up and coming coordinators a chance to interview and to keep up appearances.

3. You never know what happens in the interview process. The Steelers FO were basically positive they were promoting Ken Whisenhunt to HC but while obeying the Rooney Rule they interviewed Tomlin and were blown away.

What I'm saying is I wouldn't be at all surprised if Elway had been in touch with Fox directly, knew the contract parameters, and Fox went into the interview with the knowledge that as long as he didn't blow it with the rest of the FO and no one else blew them out of the water the job was his.

Wes Mantooth
01-14-2011, 06:40 AM
Consider these factoids:

1. Mularkey and Williams both deferred to interview, at least during the "initial phase", for their own somewhat valid reasons. But both are well connected around the league and likely in the known a lot more than any reporter would be.

2. Fox's interview just happened to be pushed back until everyone else had been interviewed.

3. While Bowlen was supposedly present in every interview the Fox one is the only video upload where you see Pat in the room at the very start.

4. Fox referenced knowing John and John's father in his video session on the way to interview, hinting at a long term relationship of some kind.

5. The supposed "second phase of interviews" just disappeared overnight after interviewing Fox.

6. Contract negotiations were apparently resolved to the point of announcing a deal within 24 hours of his first interview.

Add in little tidbits like how Fox's video interview sounded like a man who already had the job and was ready to go to work, the fact that he showed up wearing team colors (blue shirt and orange tie) for the interview, all the candidates we interviewed were coordinators who had never been a full season NFL HC. etc..

Can't help but feel like Elway knew where he was going from the start, that he had already talked with Fox on at least some level before the interview, likely before even receiving permission from Carolina, since that only just came down at about the beginning of the week or so. Feels like Elway was just biding his time until Fox was free to sign.

Or maybe he's just that smooth.... Like Kieth Stone.

Ray Finkle
01-14-2011, 06:41 AM
Consider these factoids:

1. Mularkey and Williams both deferred to interview, at least during the "initial phase", for their own somewhat valid reasons. But both are well connected around the league and likely in the known a lot more than any reporter would be.

2. Fox's interview just happened to be pushed back until everyone else had been interviewed.

3. While Bowlen was supposedly present in every interview the Fox one is the only video upload where you see Pat in the room at the very start.

4. Fox referenced knowing John and John's father in his video session on the way to interview, hinting at a long term relationship of some kind.

5. The supposed "second phase of interviews" just disappeared overnight after interviewing Fox.

6. Contract negotiations were apparently resolved to the point of announcing a deal within 24 hours of his first interview.

Add in little tidbits like how Fox's video interview sounded like a man who already had the job and was ready to go to work, the fact that he showed up wearing team colors (blue shirt and orange tie) for the interview, all the candidates we interviewed were coordinators who had never been a full season NFL HC. etc..

Can't help but feel like Elway knew where he was going from the start, that he had already talked with Fox on at least some level before the interview, likely before even receiving permission from Carolina, since that only just came down at about the beginning of the week or so. Feels like Elway was just biding his time until Fox was free to sign.

if that was known, Adam "Nutty" Schefter and Mike "Meatball" Lomardi would have been all over it.

the interviews were delayed due to weather

he was interviewed twice. Wednesday afternoon and Thursday morning.

TonyR
01-14-2011, 06:43 AM
What I'm saying is I wouldn't be at all surprised if Elway had been in touch with Fox directly, knew the contract parameters, and Fox went into the interview with the knowledge that as long as he didn't blow it with the rest of the FO and no one else blew them out of the water the job was his.

That I can completely agree with. Makes sense that an experienced guy like Fox wouldn't want to bother wasting his (and the Broncos') time unless it was a job situation he was interested in, and knowing at least the general parameters up front would help him assess that.

TonyR
01-14-2011, 06:44 AM
if that was known, Adam "Nutty" Schefter and Mike "Meatball" Lomardi would have been all over it.

Don't be so sure. These guys were predicting Dennison as late as yesterday afternoon.

worm
01-14-2011, 06:47 AM
I don't believe this theory that we just went through the motions with the other guys, necessarily. However I can believe he was the front runner considering what Elway said he wants (previous head coaching experience in college or pro) in a coach. The reason you bring other candidates in is to do your due diligence, and at the very least you get a free scouting report out of it so you can see what other people around the league think of your team and what needs to be addressed. That information alone is worth the interview, even a "fake" one.

This level of forethought I could see.

I think Elway had preformed opinions of wanting to like Fox. I would go as far as saying it was his job to lose.

Elway mentioned that he had and would continue to reach out to Ernie Accorsi to bounce ideas off of. Ernie appeared to like Fox a lot.

"Even during a successful stint as defensive coordinator of the New York Giants, a team that he helped direct to the Super Bowl in 2000, Fox wasn't much for the spotlight. New York general manager Ernie Accorsi opined that, of all the assistants with whom he has worked during his long career in the league, Fox was one of the very few he felt confident could cut it as a head coach."

I have no doubt that Ernie gave thumbs up to John Fox as a HC and that was a direction that John Elway taking his first babysteps as VP was willing to trust.

The interview timing...and any withdrawl by other candidates is where I think this all goes off the tracks for the Drek postulations.

HAT
01-14-2011, 06:51 AM
Really? How many coaches did the Browns, Panthers, Cowboys and Vikings interview? Nobody in Denver had heard of Koetter, you really think they brought him in to please the masses?

If true....It's unfortunate that the Pac-10 decided to let those CU hippies into the P-12

BroncoInferno
01-14-2011, 07:12 AM
2. Fox's interview just happened to be pushed back until everyone else had been interviewed.

The interviews were pushed back because Fox had two flights cancelled due to weather. I live in the area, and there was a lot of snow and ice this week (relevant to the region, in any case), so I know that wasn't some smoke screen.

BroncoInferno
01-14-2011, 07:15 AM
Also, if Elway knew he was going to get Fox from the beginning, why waste money on the search firm?

Missouribronc
01-14-2011, 07:27 AM
Also, if Elway knew he was going to get Fox from the beginning, why waste money on the search firm?

Bowlen is broke. This cannot be true. Must have been pro bono work.

BroncosMT
01-14-2011, 07:28 AM
Don't be so sure. These guys were predicting Dennison as late as yesterday afternoon.

I would agree.....but I think it was Fox's job to lose based on the criteria that Elway laid out previous to the search. I am glad they did their due diligence and feel confident in our path moving forward!

TonyR
01-14-2011, 07:31 AM
Elway mentioned that he had and would continue to reach out to Ernie Accorsi to bounce ideas off of. Ernie appeared to like Fox a lot.

I would love it if the Broncos brought in Accorsi as a consultant for Elway to bounce things off of.

BroncoDoug
01-14-2011, 07:35 AM
Xanders said they interviewed Fox for over 11 hours...

Rohirrim
01-14-2011, 07:35 AM
Ever watch the show "Lie to Me?" Look at John's body language in that interview. Elway is leaning back in his chair. Smiling. Basking, more like. Just looking at Fox and letting him talk. That says to me, "Decision already made. This is the guy." It's a posture of relief. The job is done.

tsiguy96
01-14-2011, 07:40 AM
viclombardi:
If you missed any of our interview with @johnelway - John said Rick Dennison and John Fox were in a dead heat..

worm
01-14-2011, 07:41 AM
I would love it if the Broncos brought in Accorsi as a consultant for Elway to bounce things off of.

Formalized or not....Elway said during his meet and greet interview, that he had already spoken to Accorsi....and would continue to speak to him as he 'learned the ropes'.

Very happy about that as well Tony. In this case...I believe it helped lead us to Fox.

To have stability and a much more even keeled head couch...coupled with a solid D in Denver while Tebow game manages the offense is a good recipe for success and the future of the Denver Broncos.

baja
01-14-2011, 07:52 AM
Consider these factoids:

1. Mularkey and Williams both deferred to interview, at least during the "initial phase", for their own somewhat valid reasons. But both are well connected around the league and likely in the known a lot more than any reporter would be.

2. Fox's interview just happened to be pushed back until everyone else had been interviewed.

3. While Bowlen was supposedly present in every interview the Fox one is the only video upload where you see Pat in the room at the very start.

4. Fox referenced knowing John and John's father in his video session on the way to interview, hinting at a long term relationship of some kind.

5. The supposed "second phase of interviews" just disappeared overnight after interviewing Fox.

6. Contract negotiations were apparently resolved to the point of announcing a deal within 24 hours of his first interview.

Add in little tidbits like how Fox's video interview sounded like a man who already had the job and was ready to go to work, the fact that he showed up wearing team colors (blue shirt and orange tie) for the interview, all the candidates we interviewed were coordinators who had never been a full season NFL HC. etc..

Can't help but feel like Elway knew where he was going from the start, that he had already talked with Fox on at least some level before the interview, likely before even receiving permission from Carolina, since that only just came down at about the beginning of the week or so. Feels like Elway was just biding his time until Fox was free to sign.

LOL I went from thinking Dennison had the inside track to thinking Fox was going to be the guy when I saw the way Elway greeted him in the vid.

CEH
01-14-2011, 07:57 AM
Fox believes you can win in this league with a average QB, power running game and solid D. Obvisouly the QB is the most important position but we have more grave issues at this time

Elway said "right now" Fox was the best choice. I'm only looking 2-3 years not really looking at some long term Super Bowl team


During Fox's time in CAR his teams were 2nd behind Cowher's team in defensive turnovers

We must draft better and focus on defense right now. Hopefully Tebow is the real deal.

baja
01-14-2011, 08:03 AM
This level of forethought I could see.

<b>I think Elway had preformed opinions of wanting to like Fox. I would go as far as saying it was his job to lose.</b>

Elway mentioned that he had and would continue to reach out to Ernie Accorsi to bounce ideas off of. Ernie appeared to like Fox a lot.

"Even during a successful stint as defensive coordinator of the New York Giants, a team that he helped direct to the Super Bowl in 2000, Fox wasn't much for the spotlight. New York general manager Ernie Accorsi opined that, of all the assistants with whom he has worked during his long career in the league, Fox was one of the very few he felt confident could cut it as a head coach."

I have no doubt that Ernie gave thumbs up to John Fox as a HC and that was a direction that John Elway taking his first babysteps as VP was willing to trust.

The interview timing...and any withdrawl by other candidates is where I think this all goes off the tracks for the Drek postulations.

That's what it looked like to me too.

TonyR
01-14-2011, 08:08 AM
viclombardi: If you missed any of our interview with @johnelway - John said Rick Dennison and John Fox were in a dead heat..

I wonder if that's true or is it's just throwing a bone to a former member of the Bronco family. I just don't see how Dennison was a legit candidate for this head coaching position, particularly compared to John Fox, when what this team desperately needed was experience.

baja
01-14-2011, 08:09 AM
Ever watch the show "Lie to Me?" Look at John's body language in that interview. Elway is leaning back in his chair. Smiling. Basking, more like. Just looking at Fox and letting him talk. That says to me, "Decision already made. This is the guy." It's a posture of relief. The job is done.

This.

John is an open book he is very easy to read. He better stay behind the scenes during the time running up to the draft. ;D

bendog
01-14-2011, 08:10 AM
It smells like a conspiracy!

Cito Pelon
01-14-2011, 08:15 AM
Seems to me Fox would really had to blown the interview, sent up some red flags. There probably was some predisposition towards Fox because of his experience level.

listopencil
01-14-2011, 08:16 AM
This.

John is an open book he is very easy to read. He better stay behind the scenes during the time running up to the draft. ;D

I like the fact that he hired a specialist to help with the HC hiring. Says a lot about how he plans to run the franchise. If you have an area of weakness, go find a guy that knows how to do it and listen to him. I think he will do the same thing regarding the draft- let the scouting department do its work and get his staff together to make up the draft board. Make no mistake, Elway is a businessman with a management mentality. Sounds good to me.

Cito Pelon
01-14-2011, 08:24 AM
I wonder if that's true or is it's just throwing a bone to a former member of the Bronco family. I just don't see how Dennison was a legit candidate for this head coaching position, particularly compared to John Fox, when what this team desperately needed was experience.

I think Dennison was a serious candidate, but Fox would have to really have jacked up the interview. Fox told them what they wanted to hear, and he's a legit HC with a pretty good track record.

bendog
01-14-2011, 08:29 AM
My guess, and it really is just a guess, but the way organizations that help with personnel selection work with businesses is they ask questions to determine what characteristics/skills the business deems desirable in the hire. They help businesses focus to cut out all the noise with crap like "Williams turned them down; harbaugh disses Elway......" It seems pretty clear they wanted an experienced guy who isn't very flashy (like cowher) and who is a team player with no ego problems.

But conspiracies are more fun.

baja
01-14-2011, 09:23 AM
I like the fact that he hired a specialist to help with the HC hiring. Says a lot about how he plans to run the franchise. If you have an area of weakness, go find a guy that knows how to do it and listen to him. I think he will do the same thing regarding the draft- let the scouting department do its work and get his staff together to make up the draft board. Make no mistake, Elway is a businessman with a management mentality. Sounds good to me.

Ya I have the most hope about bringing in Elway than anything this franchise has done in a long long time. I think he is going to do spectacularly well for the Denver Broncos.

Drek
01-14-2011, 09:29 AM
It smells like a conspiracy!

Not a conspiracy, just Elway showing himself to be a bit more capable of the back room dealing needed to be an NFL VP.

All I'm saying is that there seems to have been something already in place with Fox. A contract was agreed to less than 24 hours after his initial interview. He's already hitting the pavement for assistants.

I think while all the rest of us where wondering what the hell was going on and the media were talking about the former Bronco Dennison being the favorite because of his organizational ties what was really happening was Elway showing us what was in the right hand so no one would ask what the left hand was doing.

A little front office prestidigitation if you will.

PRBronco
01-14-2011, 09:32 AM
Not a conspiracy, just Elway showing himself to be a bit more capable of the back room dealing needed to be an NFL VP.

All I'm saying is that there seems to have been something already in place with Fox. A contract was agreed to less than 24 hours after his initial interview. He's already hitting the pavement for assistants.

I think while all the rest of us where wondering what the hell was going on and the media were talking about the former Bronco Dennison being the favorite because of his organizational ties what was really happening was Elway showing us what was in the right hand so no one would ask what the left hand was doing.

A little front office prestidigitation if you will.

Oh yeah. Totally. That.

/opens new window to google that word

*edit* Oooooh! Legerdemain! How could I not have known that! Gee thanks google.

footstepsfrom#27
01-14-2011, 09:33 AM
Consider these factoids:

1. Mularkey and Williams both deferred to interview, at least during the "initial phase", for their own somewhat valid reasons. But both are well connected around the league and likely in the known a lot more than any reporter would be.

2. Fox's interview just happened to be pushed back until everyone else had been interviewed.

3. While Bowlen was supposedly present in every interview the Fox one is the only video upload where you see Pat in the room at the very start.

4. Fox referenced knowing John and John's father in his video session on the way to interview, hinting at a long term relationship of some kind.

5. The supposed "second phase of interviews" just disappeared overnight after interviewing Fox.

6. Contract negotiations were apparently resolved to the point of announcing a deal within 24 hours of his first interview.

Add in little tidbits like how Fox's video interview sounded like a man who already had the job and was ready to go to work, the fact that he showed up wearing team colors (blue shirt and orange tie) for the interview, all the candidates we interviewed were coordinators who had never been a full season NFL HC. etc..

Can't help but feel like Elway knew where he was going from the start, that he had already talked with Fox on at least some level before the interview, likely before even receiving permission from Carolina, since that only just came down at about the beginning of the week or so. Feels like Elway was just biding his time until Fox was free to sign.
Agreed 100% and I'll go you one better; I think Fox was the choice from well before Josh was fired. His contract status and the direction it would take was no secret. He's an old guard guy who Bowlen has undoubtedly known for a long time as has Elway. I think Fox was contacted through John somehow long before he was hired or even before McD was fired. The coaching search was a sham, evidenced by the ridiculous announcement that they'd hired an executive search firm for this. Please....this is all just more of Pat Bowlen's bull**** that he tosses out there for the benefit of the fans. Elway is now in the fold with Bowlen as the feel good link for the fans to interface with instead of Pat, who I think is looking rather peaked these days. As long as they don't **** up the Tebow thing, whatever they want to do is fine. I don't expect Fox excites anyone in this fan base, and the most positive comments have to do with his experience, "steady hand", stability, etc...nobody talks about the dream of another title because of this move I don't think, but after the emotional exhaustion of the McDaniels era, fans just want a break from the drama don't they?

TonyR
01-14-2011, 09:41 AM
I'd love to hear how Fox responded when asked what happened this year in Carolina. That had to be a key part of the interview. How did he assign blame? How much responsibility did he take? What would he do differently if he could do it over again? Etc.

footstepsfrom#27
01-14-2011, 09:43 AM
Not a conspiracy, just Elway showing himself to be a bit more capable of the back room dealing needed to be an NFL VP.

All I'm saying is that there seems to have been something already in place with Fox. A contract was agreed to less than 24 hours after his initial interview. He's already hitting the pavement for assistants.

I think while all the rest of us where wondering what the hell was going on and the media were talking about the former Bronco Dennison being the favorite because of his organizational ties what was really happening was Elway showing us what was in the right hand so no one would ask what the left hand was doing.

A little front office prestidigitation if you will.
More of the same Bowlen culture in play, now reflected through Elway it seems. Remember the announcement a few days ago about them being interested in interviewing college coaches as well as NFL people? That never got off the ground either, and I'd love to know what the executive search firm like so much about Fox, unless of course it was the size of his compensation. Fox is OK...he's obviously not a visionary choiice though...a caretaker to hold onto the marble bag while the NFL owners work out the next CBA agreement. At this point I"m more concerned about what if anything, he and his connections might bring to the table for the draft.

serious hops
01-14-2011, 09:48 AM
Formalized or not....Elway said during his meet and greet interview, that he had already spoken to Accorsi....and would continue to speak to him as he 'learned the ropes'.


Really? I didn't catch that. . . that is pretty ****in' cool!


"You can never have too many good pass rushers"

- Ernie Accorsi

footstepsfrom#27
01-14-2011, 09:49 AM
I'd love to hear how Fox responded when asked what happened this year in Carolina. That had to be a key part of the interview. How did he assign blame? How much responsibility did he take? What would he do differently if he could do it over again? Etc.
Yesterday I was reading quotes he made to the media on a Panther's blog and he basically blamed the team's personnel people for choosing the players they had. Panther fans seemed to agree that he didn't have much say-so from what I saw. Maybe another source might say otherwise though...

UberBroncoMan
01-14-2011, 09:57 AM
Consider these factoids:
3. While Bowlen was supposedly present in every interview the Fox one is the only video upload where you see Pat in the room at the very start.

He was at the start of the Stud one. He gave him a big old "Pat" on the back before it started.

CEH
01-14-2011, 10:00 AM
I'd love to hear how Fox responded when asked what happened this year in Carolina. That had to be a key part of the interview. How did he assign blame? How much responsibility did he take? What would he do differently if he could do it over again? Etc.

Pretty simple

All Fox had to do is say " Remember in '08 when you guys came down to CAR needing one win to make the playoff and my team beat you up physically on offense (247 total yards on offense) , ran all over you on defense (150 yards rushing) , beat you the old fashion way 30-10 and started the 3 game slide. That is what my teams can do not the crap they gave me in my lame duck year because the owner was too cheap to let me go , preparing for the lockout and made me play Jimmy "*****" Claussen when I wanted Timmy along

bendog
01-14-2011, 10:04 AM
Actually, the question would have been, 'If you were still in Car, how would you go about a rebuild?"

doonwise
01-14-2011, 10:39 AM
I don't see what this thread has to do with Josh McDaniels...

Que
01-14-2011, 12:37 PM
As for the message boards, I don't think it's fear. I think it's respect. Message boards are a pretty good litmus test for how the diehards are leaning, and if you capture the hearts and minds of the diehards, you can easily capture the rest. These days, ignore the power of the internet at your own peril.

This. As a guy who obsesses about this **** for a profession, don't underestimate the power of forums/message boards. They provide unparalleled insight in to the hearts and minds of the "super users/fans" and are quite possibly one of the most powerful forces at work today on the Internet. Twitter & Facebook are flashes in the pan in terms of momentum and thought measurement. If anything, they're usually reactive and lag behind what's going on in forums. In my line of work, we use them to gauge "legs" - when an idea is reaching critical mass. We don't use them to mine for thoughts and trends. For that we turn to forums and blogs (see RedState.com and Nikki Haley in SC).

Hell, it isn't a coincidence that when someone has a really good take here, you read it in a column in a few days later. Journalists are routinely mining these suckers for article ideas. It isn't so much stealing as just a way to listen straight to the heart of the discussion. Coupled with a professional journalist's supposed "behind the scenes access" and it can be a powerful combination indeed. Message boards are an accurate barometer of fan/consumer thoughts and beliefs when used correctly.

I've seen online communities make products overnight - see mom boards and mom blogs. How do you think Groupon caught fire? I've seen message boards spawn entire new companies and products - see PMgear.com, bindingfreedom.com, quiverkillers.com just to name 3 that were started directly from the same message board (www.tetongravity.com).

Are Bowlen, Xanders, Ellis and Elway routinely scanning the Mane? Probably not - although I wouldn't put it past Elway. But influencers around them are be they advisers, family, friends, coaches, players or journalists. The impact of these boards is often only one or two degrees of separation from the ultimate decision maker.

Which is pretty cool if you think about it.

_Oro_
01-14-2011, 12:51 PM
This. As a guy who obsesses about this **** for a profession, don't underestimate the power of forums/message boards. They provide unparalleled insight in to the hearts and minds of the "super users/fans" and are quite possibly one of the most powerful forces at work today on the Internet. Twitter & Facebook are flashes in the pan in terms of momentum and thought measurement. If anything, they're usually reactive and lag behind what's going on in forums. In my line of work, we use them to gauge "legs" - when an idea is reaching critical mass. We don't use them to mine for thoughts and trends. For that we turn to forums and blogs (see RedState.com and Nikki Haley in SC).

Hell, it isn't a coincidence that when someone has a really good take here, you read it in a column in a few days later. Journalists are routinely mining these suckers for article ideas. It isn't so much stealing as just a way to listen straight to the heart of the discussion. Coupled with a professional journalist's supposed "behind the scenes access" and it can be a powerful combination indeed. Message boards are an accurate barometer of fan/consumer thoughts and beliefs when used correctly.

I've seen online communities make products overnight - see mom boards and mom blogs. How do you think Groupon caught fire? I've seen message boards spawn entire new companies and products - see PMgear.com, bindingfreedom.com, quiverkillers.com just to name 3 that were started directly from the same message board (www.tetongravity.com).

Are Bowlen, Xanders, Ellis and Elway routinely scanning the Mane? Probably not - although I wouldn't put it past Elway. But influencers around them are be they advisers, family, friends, coaches, players or journalists. The impact of these boards is often only one or two degrees of separation from the ultimate decision maker.

Which is pretty cool if you think about it.

It is stealing and it's BS that they turn around and sue message boards for posting their sh*tty content. If you take someone's idea from a message board then you should have to cite that post and the author of the post.

footstepsfrom#27
01-14-2011, 02:12 PM
Xanders said they interviewed Fox for over 11 hours...
That makes me sure they didn't.

Que
01-14-2011, 02:26 PM
It is stealing and it's BS that they turn around and sue message boards for posting their sh*tty content. If you take someone's idea from a message board then you should have to cite that post and the author of the post.

Oh I hear you on the righthaven.com lawsuit thing. That's the most idiotic move I've seen media make since they were exploring equipping subscribers with special printer to print out the newspaper every morning.

As for citing original ideas/opinions - my friend, that's been happening since the first newspaper was published. It used to be Bob down at the bar, or Sonny the shoeshine guy. Now it is just Kaylore from the OM.

I'm not really involved in the media side of the equation directly. I just build predictive models for people and the intellectual theft of ideas from message boards by journalists is just a good way of making sure I beat the market to the scoop.

All that being said - I used to be in the media industry. I look at our camp coverage here or even post game diagnosis (often on a play by play basis) and shake my head. In the days of declining newsroom budgets and journalists who either a) couldn't recognize a story if it hit them on the head (see Williamson, Bill) or b) see the end game as becoming a TV personality (see Paige, Woody), we are the true journalists of our day. The stuff that comes out of camp is 24 karat. I just wish we could harness it and find some way to start generating compensation for such devoted fans who spend their free time rewatching games and standing on the sidelines at Dove Valley.