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GoBroncos84
01-13-2011, 09:39 PM
http://onemanfootball.com/2011/01/13/what-a-john-fox-defense-looks-like/

Great write up from an excellent Broncos blogger. Describes the defensive schemes that Fox used in Carolina and how our current roster fits into them.

schaaf
01-13-2011, 09:47 PM
http://onemanfootball.com/2011/01/13/what-a-john-fox-defense-looks-like/

Great write up from an excellent Broncos blogger. Describes the defensive schemes that Fox used in Carolina and how our current roster fits into them.

Great Post! Thanks! :thumbsup:

gunns
01-13-2011, 09:55 PM
http://onemanfootball.com/2011/01/13/what-a-john-fox-defense-looks-like/

Great write up from an excellent Broncos blogger. Describes the defensive schemes that Fox used in Carolina and how our current roster fits into them.

Nice find and very interesting. I just get giddy when reading about a good defense! I'm very excited. I loved what it said about being a football guy, not a system guy, and managing the WHOLE team. Also the part about taking Fairley and then safeties..... I'm in HEAVEN!

Kaylore
01-13-2011, 09:56 PM
Thanks for this.

strafen
01-13-2011, 09:58 PM
Thanks for the post.
Ron Meeks was the name I was looking for the other night.
He may have been let go by the Panthers.
I think he should be the guy we go after to be our DC...

Agamemnon
01-13-2011, 10:04 PM
http://onemanfootball.com/2011/01/13/what-a-john-fox-defense-looks-like/

Great write up from an excellent Broncos blogger. Describes the defensive schemes that Fox used in Carolina and how our current roster fits into them.

That kind of points out what I've been thinking. Our personnel are not any good in a 3-4 presently, and some of them look a lot better in a 4-3 honestly (Joe Mays is way too slow to be a good MLB though). With either scheme we have to draft heavily on defense. It's just a question of what positions become the bigger needs. I tend to look at the way so many teams are moving to the 3-4 and I'm left thinking that one of the biggest upsides to that scheme, namely 3-4 players not being in high demand, is gone.

epicSocialism4tw
01-13-2011, 10:14 PM
Quality find.

If the defense is simplified and rests on the consistency and effort that "Ted" (the author) suggests, then it will be a step in the right direction. Champ Bailey is still an excellent player with a few more years left of top-notch CB play. Simplifying the system allows for guys like Champ to shine. Expect Champ to have a great season next year.

The coolest thing about establishing a hard-nosed blue-collar (any other hyphenated colloquialisms you can think of) defense is that we have a player with that kind of mentality who will be running the offense. Tebow brings that toughness and never say die attitude to the other side of the ball. Its exciting just thinking about having a team that will set a standard of effort that causes the other team to play up to them.

Things are looking up in Broncoland.

Requiem
01-13-2011, 10:16 PM
Stellar write up and I agree. I think the move benefits Ayers. Dumervil can still be effective. Marcus Thomas as a rotational player works, he is a much better fit for this scheme. He is a player who can still work. The other players mentioned can play spots on the front, especially Bannan. Getting Fairley (if he is there) at #2 might be something of strong interest to do. Bowers even comes into play at end. Can't have enough pass rushers on a team and he's certainly up there. I didn't consider them factors into play for a 3-4, but in a 4-3 most definitely. REALISTIC OPTIONS.

Plenty of quality defensive line options in the draft outside those guys as well. I'd still take two guys on the DL with our top four picks anyways. Investing in a linebacker would be a wise option regardless, just for competition. Mays is not a three down player in the NFL consistently, and I'm a fellow Bison and I just don't see him being an impact long-term starter at the position. Safety, upgrade for sure.

DL, DL, LB, S. Priorities in the draft. Add in another RB/OL in there as well, pending what is done in free agency. No for it. No excuse not to draft DL in this epic class.

Dutch
01-13-2011, 10:22 PM
Got to love Ted's insight. First place I look for new Bronco posts every day as they are always well thought out, thoroughly researched, and nicely written. Great read, and the similarities between where the Panthers were when Fox took the reigns and where we are now are striking. With a good draft (let us hope), the maturation of Tebow, and the return of Doom we could see just as drastic a turnaround. I'm all in. Hope it comes to pass.

Homer Simpson
01-13-2011, 10:22 PM
Stellar write up and I agree. I think the move benefits Ayers. Dumervil can still be effective. Marcus Thomas as a rotational player works, he is a much better fit for this scheme. He is a player who can still work. The other players mentioned can play spots on the front, especially Bannan. Getting Fairley (if he is there) at #2 might be something of strong interest to do. Bowers even comes into play at end. Can't have enough pass rushers on a team and he's certainly up there. I didn't consider them factors into play for a 3-4, but in a 4-3 most definitely. REALISTIC OPTIONS.

Plenty of quality defensive line options in the draft outside those guys as well. I'd still take two guys on the DL with our top four picks anyways. Investing in a linebacker would be a wise option regardless, just for competition. Mays is not a three down player in the NFL consistently, and I'm a fellow Bison and I just don't see him being an impact long-term starter at the position. Safety, upgrade for sure.

DL, DL, LB, S. Priorities in the draft. Add in another RB/OL in there as well, pending what is done in free agency. No for it. No excuse not to draft DL in this epic class.

:thumbsup: :thumbs: :thumbsup:

schaaf
01-13-2011, 10:23 PM
Stellar write up and I agree. I think the move benefits Ayers. Dumervil can still be effective. Marcus Thomas as a rotational player works, he is a much better fit for this scheme. He is a player who can still work. The other players mentioned can play spots on the front, especially Bannan. Getting Fairley (if he is there) at #2 might be something of strong interest to do. Bowers even comes into play at end. Can't have enough pass rushers on a team and he's certainly up there. I didn't consider them factors into play for a 3-4, but in a 4-3 most definitely. REALISTIC OPTIONS.

Plenty of quality defensive line options in the draft outside those guys as well. I'd still take two guys on the DL with our top four picks anyways. Investing in a linebacker would be a wise option regardless, just for competition. Mays is not a three down player in the NFL consistently, and I'm a fellow Bison and I just don't see him being an impact long-term starter at the position. Safety, upgrade for sure.

DL, DL, LB, S. Priorities in the draft. Add in another RB/OL in there as well, pending what is done in free agency. No for it. No excuse not to draft DL in this epic class.

I agree I love Joe Mays as everyone else but I don't think the guy is realistically gonna start next year

Tombstone RJ
01-13-2011, 10:36 PM
This is the same guy who wrote up a nice piece on McD and staying the course, I thought that was a great write up and I like this write up too.

Vegas_Bronco
01-13-2011, 10:37 PM
Definitely will be focusing on the TE spot in free agency. With Fox in place we.will have.some great TEs on the team that can block 1 and catch short routes quickly.

The Joker
01-13-2011, 10:55 PM
I think a genuine MIKE linebacker has just become one of our biggest team needs. DJ back at WLB should do a fine job, Haggan I'm not certain about but the SAM is the least important of the 3 LB positions so I think he'll be passable for a season or two until we can either develop someone or spend a high pick in a future draft.

But we absolutely need a new starter at MIKE. Mays has nowhere near the range to play the spot and if we try and play DJ there I'll be very upset because we'll then not only have a poor MIKE linebacker but we'll be depriving ourselves of a guy who can be very effective at WLB.

Fairley has to now be heavy favourite to be the pick at #2 if Carolina doesn't take him. Jamal Williams and Bannan can probably be a reasonable combo at NT, both excel at holding the POA and would allow Fairley to do what he does best at UT and get into the backfield and make plays. Thomas if he's retained is a good fit as a depth UT.

On the D-Line, I think Ayers looks like a great fit as strongside DE. Dumervil is the one player that I think loses value in the switch, but if we can use him wisely then he can still be a very important and productive player for us. What I'd like to see us do is use him exclusively as a 3rd down pass rusher early in games to avoid him getting worn down on running plays and keep him effective in obvious passing downs. Then late in the 3rd quarter you start putting him in there every down and let him go against tired OT's and make plays late in the game. Genuinely think that's the best way to use him.

Of course, that means we have to find a starter at DE to play opposite Ayers. Hunter doesn't look to be much more than depth.

In the secondary, we need to resign Champ. He'd really cause all sorts of problems playing in a short zone, being allowed to read the QB. I don't expect we'll be heavy hitters in FA, but I think that we should certainly be looking to add a starting Safety if at all possible. You can usually get good value at Safety in FA, so I think it's a realistic expectation. McBath, if he can stay healthy, should really benefit from the switch as he's our best coverage safety by some distance. Dawkins is surely gone.

Go into the draft and get

Fairley
Staring MIKE
DE

With your first 4 picks and you're looking like you might be on the right track. Also add either a RB, TE or defensive back with the other high selection, and maybe the same again if you can get some picks for Orton (which unfortunately looks doubtful in time for this draft)

Anyone have any idea how Vickerson projects in this 4-3 by the way? I was impressed by him at times this year but I don't really know for sure how he'd translate to a new system.

Traveler
01-14-2011, 04:27 AM
I think a genuine MIKE linebacker has just become one of our biggest team needs. DJ back at WLB should do a fine job, Haggan I'm not certain about but the SAM is the least important of the 3 LB positions so I think he'll be passable for a season or two until we can either develop someone or spend a high pick in a future draft.

But we absolutely need a new starter at MIKE. Mays has nowhere near the range to play the spot and if we try and play DJ there I'll be very upset because we'll then not only have a poor MIKE linebacker but we'll be depriving ourselves of a guy who can be very effective at WLB.

Fairley has to now be heavy favourite to be the pick at #2 if Carolina doesn't take him. Jamal Williams and Bannan can probably be a reasonable combo at NT, both excel at holding the POA and would allow Fairley to do what he does best at UT and get into the backfield and make plays. Thomas if he's retained is a good fit as a depth UT.

On the D-Line, I think Ayers looks like a great fit as strongside DE. Dumervil is the one player that I think loses value in the switch, but if we can use him wisely then he can still be a very important and productive player for us. What I'd like to see us do is use him exclusively as a 3rd down pass rusher early in games to avoid him getting worn down on running plays and keep him effective in obvious passing downs. Then late in the 3rd quarter you start putting him in there every down and let him go against tired OT's and make plays late in the game. Genuinely think that's the best way to use him.

Of course, that means we have to find a starter at DE to play opposite Ayers. Hunter doesn't look to be much more than depth.

In the secondary, we need to resign Champ. He'd really cause all sorts of problems playing in a short zone, being allowed to read the QB. I don't expect we'll be heavy hitters in FA, but I think that we should certainly be looking to add a starting Safety if at all possible. You can usually get good value at Safety in FA, so I think it's a realistic expectation. McBath, if he can stay healthy, should really benefit from the switch as he's our best coverage safety by some distance. Dawkins is surely gone.

Go into the draft and get

Fairley
Staring MIKE
DE

With your first 4 picks and you're looking like you might be on the right track. Also add either a RB, TE or defensive back with the other high selection, and maybe the same again if you can get some picks for Orton (which unfortunately looks doubtful in time for this draft)

Anyone have any idea how Vickerson projects in this 4-3 by the way? I was impressed by him at times this year but I don't really know for sure how he'd translate to a new system.

If David Harris is allowed to hit the FA market, Denver should goallout the get him. Perfect Mike LB IMO.

srphoenix
01-14-2011, 07:10 PM
Anyone know why I can't post a new thread on here? I'm using firefox, anyways I wanted to post this:

First glimpse of Fox's new D for next year:

and it looks like its gonna be a 4-3

click the link for the picture

psmyth12 Patrick Smyth
by VicLombardi
Broncos Head Coach John Fox explains defensive philosophy to Channel 4's Vic Lombardi. http://twitpic.com/3q0p2w

listopencil
01-14-2011, 07:22 PM
Anyone know why I can't post a new thread on here? I'm using firefox, anyways I wanted to post this:

First glimpse of Fox's new D for next year:

and it looks like its gonna be a 4-3

click the link for the picture

psmyth12 Patrick Smyth
by VicLombardi
Broncos Head Coach John Fox explains defensive philosophy to Channel 4's Vic Lombardi. http://twitpic.com/3q0p2w


http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/225101048.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1295059010&Signature=gfMTeFokpk%2Bowwb6gO%2BzEYZmCQ4%3D

Rohirrim
01-14-2011, 08:31 PM
Good read. I think going with the 4-3 would be the quicker trip back to a game winning D. Ayers and Doom on the wings and Fairley and (Bannan, Vickerson, et al) in the middle. That's a pretty potent pass rush right there. Kind of scary, if you ask me.

GoBroncos84
01-14-2011, 08:39 PM
Good read. I think going with the 4-3 would be the quicker trip back to a game winning D. Ayers and Doom on the wings and Fairley and (Bannan, Vickerson, et al) in the middle. That's a pretty potent pass rush right there. Kind of scary, if you ask me.

If they could add a top flight MLB in free agency with that defensive line we'd be vastly improved. David Harris, Stephen Tulloch, Paul Posluzny. Move D.J. back to WLB. Big turnaround. The further into the offseason we get, the more I like the idea of going back to a 4-3.

Rohirrim
01-14-2011, 08:41 PM
If they could add a top flight MLB in free agency with that defensive line we'd be vastly improved. David Harris, Stephen Tulloch, Paul Posluzny. Move D.J. back to WLB. Big turnaround. The further into the offseason we get, the more I like the idea of going back to a 4-3.

Yeah, I'm bending that way, although I was hoping to go back to the Orange Crush days. ;D 4-3 is probably the most realistic path to take given who we have on the roster.

Bronco Yoda
01-14-2011, 09:25 PM
Interesting stuff. I've got to check that site out more often.

missingnumber7
01-14-2011, 09:29 PM
If they could add a top flight MLB in free agency with that defensive line we'd be vastly improved. David Harris, Stephen Tulloch, Paul Posluzny. Move D.J. back to WLB. Big turnaround. The further into the offseason we get, the more I like the idea of going back to a 4-3.

I think MAys fills that strong MLB role without having to find someone new. I also LOVE moving DJ back to the will.

Ratboy
01-15-2011, 04:16 AM
http://i.imgur.com/1usFS.jpg

Well, I didn't think Fairley was big enough for a 3-4 DT, back in a 4-3? I hope we get him.

I'm kind of curious where this leaves Dumervil. Is he someone we can trade?

DJ @ Will, another bonus, our defense just got better by that simple move.

I think we can be in really good position.

Drek
01-15-2011, 06:47 AM
Yeah, I'm bending that way, although I was hoping to go back to the Orange Crush days. ;D 4-3 is probably the most realistic path to take given who we have on the roster.

Except for the part where you turn our best front seven player into a situational pass rusher, or how you turn all but a handful of our other front seven starters into special teamers at best.

I think MAys fills that strong MLB role without having to find someone new. I also LOVE moving DJ back to the will.

Joe Mays can't cover. He's a two down run stuffer/pass rusher. We got him from the Eagles, a team that knows a thing or two about 4-3 personnel, for JJ Arrington.

If we aren't playing a 3-4 in which Mays can be a two down SILB he's nothing more than a special teamer.

The same probably applies to Haggan, though to a lesser extent. He might not suck as a 4-3 backup.

chadta
01-15-2011, 06:51 AM
Except for the part where you turn our best front seven player into a situational pass rusher, or how you turn all but a handful of our other front seven starters into special teamers at best.

really ? i think the talent level of our players turned them into special teamers at best and not our choice of defensive fronts.

Drek
01-15-2011, 06:57 AM
really ? i think the talent level of our players turned them into special teamers at best and not our choice of defensive fronts.

So in a 3-4 you don't think guys like Haggan and Mays would at least be a serviceable backup? Because Haggan was a three down starter in '09 when this defense was doing pretty well and Mays was one of the lone bright spots on this year's D.

In a 4-3 you can't put them on the field at linebacker in anything but the most obvious run downs.

A big part of having a competent defense is having backups who aren't complete ****. In a 3-4 we've got a lot of starting roles to fill, but when we do the current starters project as solid backups. In a 4-3 we'll have a ton of holes to fill and no depth behind them even after that.

We're a **** D either way and if we're going to change we might as well do it now. But this defense is a hell of a lot closer to competitive as a 3-4 front than a 4-3 front, thats just a fact.

chadta
01-15-2011, 07:20 AM
So in a 3-4 you don't think guys like Haggan and Mays would at least be a serviceable backup?

thats exactly what im saying, i never said this could be fixed in one offseason, never said i had the answer, i did say that what we have aint it.

i have no preference either way, 3-4 4-3, i just want players that dont suck, remember when mcd cleaned house, how none of the guys he cut or got rid of caught on anywhere, i think the same would happen if we cleaned house again this year

ayjackson
01-15-2011, 07:59 AM
Haggan is a 3-4 starter at SILB. He didn`t play a lick there last year because of the Dumerville injury.

yerner
01-15-2011, 08:09 AM
I like where he said the Broncos got a good start 'on becoming tougher and more physical under the Mcdaniels regime.'

ayjackson
01-15-2011, 08:36 AM
I like where he said the Broncos got a good start 'on becoming tougher and more physical under the Mcdaniels regime.'

blasphemer....apologist....dumb dumb!!!!!

Seriously, I think he`s right, but somewhere along the line mcd lost the plot! I`ll always point to the PI call in the Jets game.

Mediator12
01-15-2011, 09:55 AM
So in a 3-4 you don't think guys like Haggan and Mays would at least be a serviceable backup? Because Haggan was a three down starter in '09 when this defense was doing pretty well and Mays was one of the lone bright spots on this year's D.

In a 4-3 you can't put them on the field at linebacker in anything but the most obvious run downs.

A big part of having a competent defense is having backups who aren't complete ****. In a 3-4 we've got a lot of starting roles to fill, but when we do the current starters project as solid backups. In a 4-3 we'll have a ton of holes to fill and no depth behind them even after that.

We're a **** D either way and if we're going to change we might as well do it now. But this defense is a hell of a lot closer to competitive as a 3-4 front than a 4-3 front, thats just a fact.

Actually, I just do not see it that way. None of those guys are worth even thinking about scheme. In fact, none of the front seven guys are worth keeping a scheme. Dumervil has value as a pass rusher in either scheme and is best used as a Nickel DE anyway. The real question is can they get big and physical enough to protect him as a 3 down RDE? It is certainly possible if they play an aggressive one gap 4-3 Front and can play more eight man in the box. Dumervil can be the Simeon Rice in a Tampa style 4-3 Front with Zone behind it.

Personally, I would love to continue to play the 3-4, but the 3-4 requires a stud set of LB's that DEN does not have right now and competent, selfless DL who can stop the run. I just do not see that on the roster. In fact, the talent still looks like the 4-3 Zone team they were in the mid 2000's when they actually respectable.

TheReverend
01-15-2011, 10:00 AM
So in a 3-4 you don't think guys like Haggan and Mays would at least be a serviceable backup? Because Haggan was a three down starter in '09 when this defense was doing pretty well and Mays was one of the lone bright spots on this year's D.

That's inaccurate. In the majority of passing downs Haggan was replaced by Ayers.

In a 4-3 you can't put them on the field at linebacker in anything but the most obvious run downs.

Not true. You'd need 1 more talented coverage linebacker on the outside to make it work, but it's workable.

A big part of having a competent defense is having backups who aren't complete ****. In a 3-4 we've got a lot of starting roles to fill, but when we do the current starters project as solid backups. In a 4-3 we'll have a ton of holes to fill and no depth behind them even after that.

We're a **** D either way and if we're going to change we might as well do it now. But this defense is a hell of a lot closer to competitive as a 3-4 front than a 4-3 front, thats just a fact.

I personally feel that we're much closer to a 4-3, but the rest of this post was pretty good

boppool
01-15-2011, 12:16 PM
If David Harris is allowed to hit the FA market, Denver should goallout the get him. Perfect Mike LB IMO.

Jets will be insane to let him walk. I really wanted Vilma a few years back. He became expendable because of Harris and surprisingly, there was very little interest until Saints picked him up. If we can find a guy like that this offseason, I'll be stoked.

Stephen Tulloch (TEN) or Paul Posluszny (Injury concern) perhaps?

tesnyde
01-15-2011, 12:42 PM
[I]Having been a fan of a very technocratic team the last 15 years, I welcome this new approach, and I expect it to be successful quickly.

Great statement at the end. I like the idea of being tougher than the opponet and playing sound straight up defense. Every position needs to be open for competition.