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Smilin Assassin
01-10-2011, 10:01 AM
http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2010/12/hyde_trade_for_orton_or_trade.html

"Here are the two most obvious options this off-season:

1. Trade with Denver for Kyle Orton. This might cost as much as a No. 1 pick. Crazy? Maybe. Depending on the coach, Orton appears the best hope among the veterans out there. The Dolphins almost certainly would have to overpay with a No. 1 to tempt Denver into trading him. If I'm Denver, I'm not sure what I do then. I can't count on Tim Tebow that much.

Other veteran options? Donovan McNabb is 34 and been dismissed by two quarterback-centric coaches in Andy Reid and Mike Shanahan. Kevin Kolb is more untested and raised in a West Coast offense, though the big plus with him is Reid turned the franchise over to Kolb before Michael Vick's magic carpet took off. Kolb might fit if (please, no) Jon Gruden is brought in.

Orton is 28, has started five years, has built up some good experience and scars in Chicago and Denver. He had a good working relationship with Brandon Marshall last year. The past two seasons, he's thrown 41 touchdowns against 20 interceptions and his rating is 87.2 He's not a franchise quarterback yet. Is he on the verge of being one? Having him would solve a lot of Dolphins problems."

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2011/01/04/qb-kyle-orton-available-but-who-on-dolphins-would-make-the-call/

"One sticking point is that Miami doesn’t have a second-round pick in this year’s draft, having traded it for Marshall. With the Dolphins also needing a speedy No. 2 receiver, perhaps the Broncos could toss in a burner like Eddie Royal, who had 59 catches for 627 yards this season, and make it worth a No. 1. Just a thought."

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-10-2011, 10:04 AM
I'd trade Orton and Royal for their #1 right now.

Although I'd ask them to throw in a conditional pick, anywhere from a 3-5 rounder based on play.

broncs2bowl
01-10-2011, 10:04 AM
Id do it in a heartbeat

worm
01-10-2011, 10:09 AM
Do this trade.....then trade down our own #1 pick to Dallas and I will heart this new and improved front office.

DrFate
01-10-2011, 10:09 AM
I like Royal - I think he was a victim of McDaniel mishandling

Guy had a huge rookie season...

BlaK-Argentina
01-10-2011, 10:10 AM
They have Bess, why would they take Royal? Dumb. Plus I want to keep Royal. :D

Drek
01-10-2011, 10:11 AM
No way would I throw Royal into that deal. Swapping Orton and their second back to them? Sure. But no Royal. In a year or two Lloyd and Gaffney will be afterthoughts and Royal is a perfect slot compliment to Decker and Thomas.

This is a three WR (minimum) league now and Royal has a skill set no one else on our offense can replicate out of the slot. We'll wind up drafting a similar player down the road in the first or second if we made that kind of move.

Likwid Kerruj
01-10-2011, 10:11 AM
http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2010/12/hyde_trade_for_orton_or_trade.html

He's not a franchise quarterback yet.

LOL

A number 1 for Orton would be amazing.

Chris
01-10-2011, 10:12 AM
Lloyd isn't that old. I think he has 4 good seasons left. Why the negative prognosis Drek?

Pony Boy
01-10-2011, 10:13 AM
We will be very lucky if we get a #2 for Orton.

footstepsfrom#27
01-10-2011, 10:18 AM
I doubt we can get a #1 for Orton but stranger things have happened ...NO to "tossing in" Eddie Royal that would suck, but a 3rd and Orton for the Fish #1 would be OK with me. Then we draft that Nevada kid to be the scout team QB and develop him for two years down the road to be Tebow's backup and Quinn moves up...or do we sign someone else to back up Tebow?

Gutless Drunk
01-10-2011, 10:23 AM
Vernon Davis says bring in Orton. It's going to be a bidding war!
Culteresque... at least two no. 1's
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Drek
01-10-2011, 10:23 AM
Lloyd isn't that old. I think he has 4 good seasons left. Why the negative prognosis Drek?

Look at his career numbers. I was big on Lloyd heading into this season but he's a system fit more than anything. He's possibly got a couple good years left but I'd never want to pay him top dollar for those years and then some to follow, which is what he's going to want. Our best option is to either deal him while he's hot in the off-season or ride out the 2011 season with him and get the best comp pick possible for the 2013 draft.

razorwire77
01-10-2011, 10:24 AM
Interesting speculation and it would be tempting considering WR is the one position on this team I consider deep. DT, Decker, and Willis are all young guys with huge upside. Swap Royal for Jabar Gaffney and I'd jump at that deal.

BroncoInferno
01-10-2011, 10:25 AM
I doubt we can get a #1 for Orton but stranger things have happened ...NO to "tossing in" Eddie Royal that would suck, but a 3rd and Orton for the Fish #1 would be OK with me. Then we draft that Nevada kid to be the scout team QB and develop him for two years down the road to be Tebow's backup and Quinn moves up...or do we sign someone else to back up Tebow?

I think Andy Dalton from TCU would be a nice 6th or 7th round pick to use on a developmental #3 QB. He's got excellent mobility and is a very intelligent player, the perfect sort of backup you'd want for Tebow.

Chris
01-10-2011, 10:26 AM
Look at his career numbers. I was big on Lloyd heading into this season but he's a system fit more than anything. He's possibly got a couple good years left but I'd never want to pay him top dollar for those years and then some to follow, which is what he's going to want. Our best option is to either deal him while he's hot in the off-season or ride out the 2011 season with him and get the best comp pick possible for the 2013 draft.

He's a physical freak who has underachieved. Just because he's not a beast doesn't mean he's a guy solely benefiting from the system. I think the guy made too many plays out of nothing to not have a great deal. He has the physical ability to be special in any system IMO.

spdirty
01-10-2011, 10:27 AM
I wish this guy ran Miamis front office.

cmhargrove
01-10-2011, 10:27 AM
I don't know about Royal, but how would they like a sensational first round running back like Maroney?

BroncoInferno
01-10-2011, 10:30 AM
Look at his career numbers. I was big on Lloyd heading into this season but he's a system fit more than anything. He's possibly got a couple good years left but I'd never want to pay him top dollar for those years and then some to follow, which is what he's going to want. Our best option is to either deal him while he's hot in the off-season or ride out the 2011 season with him and get the best comp pick possible for the 2013 draft.

I've also sort of thought about using him as trade bait this offseason. He's going to want a big extension, and we have excellent depth and youth at the WR spot, so I think those financial resources could be better allocated elsewhere. The question is whether or not we could get a deal that would make it worth our while? Boldin is a similar age to Lloyd, far more proven on a year to year basis, and he was dealt for a 3rd and a 5th. So, you wouldn't expect to get much more than that for Lloyd, who may be viewed as a possible one year wonder. To me, it's only worth considering for a 2nd rounder, and I'm not sure anyone would offer that given that he's almost 30 and only has one great season.

misturanderson
01-10-2011, 10:30 AM
Look at his career numbers. I was big on Lloyd heading into this season but he's a system fit more than anything. He's possibly got a couple good years left but I'd never want to pay him top dollar for those years and then some to follow, which is what he's going to want. Our best option is to either deal him while he's hot in the off-season or ride out the 2011 season with him and get the best comp pick possible for the 2013 draft.

This will only be a viable option if Thomas proves that he can stay healthy. He'll need to take over the #2 receiver role, at the very least, next year for it to be wise to let Lloyd walk barring some sort of major drop-off in production.

Kaylore
01-10-2011, 10:32 AM
I'd take Orton for a first in a heartbeat. I don't like the idea of trading Royal unless the staff feels good about Decker and Thomas, and even then I'm lukewarm on the idea unless it's for good money.

Royal wants to be a Redskin anyway.

baja
01-10-2011, 10:33 AM
Orton has more value than a lot of you guys are thinking.

HEAV
01-10-2011, 10:33 AM
If any team gives Denver more than a 2nd for orton it would be theft!

I like Kyle an all but a low 2nd 3rd is more likely.

baja
01-10-2011, 10:35 AM
I've also sort of thought about using him as trade bait this offseason. He's going to want a big extension, and we have excellent depth and youth at the WR spot, so I think those financial resources could be better allocated elsewhere. The question is whether or not we could get a deal that would make it worth our while? Boldin is a similar age to Lloyd, far more proven on a year to year basis, and he was dealt for a 3rd and a 5th. So, you wouldn't expect to get much more than that for Lloyd, who may be viewed as a possible one year wonder. To me, it's only worth considering for a 2nd rounder, and I'm not sure anyone would offer that given that he's almost 30 and only has one great season.

Lets hope Josh gets a OC job somewhere.

footstepsfrom#27
01-10-2011, 10:36 AM
I think Andy Dalton from TCU would be a nice 6th or 7th round pick to use on a developmental #3 QB. He's got excellent mobility and is a very intelligent player, the perfect sort of backup you'd want for Tebow.
Yeah, somewhere on here I posted the same thing. I don't know where he's going...maybe later than that. The Nevada kid is intgriguing though if you haven't seen him. 6'6" 225 and he can probably pout on another 15 pounds by the time he's a roster possibility. But he's a superior playmaker in the Tebow mold with speed...kid looked good carning up Boston College the other night...plus he beat Boise State...who eles did that?

I'm gonne be watching Fairley tonight.

Killericon
01-10-2011, 10:38 AM
That Jay Cutler trade just keeps on giving and giving, doesn't it?

Gcver2ver3
01-10-2011, 10:38 AM
i'd be surprised if we got a 2nd rounder for Orton...

i'd be flat out SHOCKED and APPALLED if we got a #1 for him...

i like royal a lot, but i wouldnt hesitate to throw in royal if thats what it took...we are loaded at WR and we'll have problem finding playing time for all of them anyway...

could i anyone pass up on Miami's #1 pick because of eddie royal?...not me...

underrated29
01-10-2011, 10:52 AM
This is crap. The fish have Devon Bess, who if I remember correctly is a pretty fast individual himself. They also had that one kid they took at #9 overall and now plays for the niners. He was fast as **** but didnt do anything there. Ginn, ted ginn jr. Thats who.

They need a solid WR, but more importantly they need a SOLID QB. If we could somehow rape them out of their 1st I would be all for it.

McDman
01-10-2011, 10:54 AM
If we got a #1 for Orton their front office should all be fired and deported to Cuba.

bronco0608
01-10-2011, 10:54 AM
You guys think starting caliber NFL are everywhere. They are not. Right now, there are only 20-22 guys who have the credentials/talent to be a darn solid starting QB in the NFL and Orton is one of them. 10,000 yards, 60 tds, 30 ints, 59% completion over the past three seasons as an NFL qb.

You guys act as if ANYBODY can do it, but they cant.

QBs are a premium position and if you think Orton is going for less than a 2nd round pick, then you know nothing about football.

Rohirrim
01-10-2011, 10:55 AM
Given our FO now, I wouldn't be surprised if we trade them Orton and Royal for Ricky Williams, and throw in next year's third rounder. :pity:

Beantown Bronco
01-10-2011, 11:00 AM
This is crap. The fish have Devon Bess, who if I remember correctly is a pretty fast individual himself. They also had that one kid they took at #9 overall and now plays for the niners. He was fast as **** but didnt do anything there. Ginn, ted ginn jr. Thats who.

So your argument is that they wouldn't want Royal because they already have a "fast" WR? Interesting because we have Royal even though we also have Lloyd, who is faster than Royal.

oubronco
01-10-2011, 11:00 AM
Kyle Orton.............. Vernon Davis loves you

Bronco Boy
01-10-2011, 11:00 AM
Why is Orton not worth a #1? There are several teams in need of a QB and Orton is one of the best available.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-10-2011, 11:04 AM
Why is Orton not worth a #1? There are several teams in need of a QB and Orton is one of the best available.

A lot is going to depend on how people compare Kolb and Orton. I think, for a team that has a lot of talent (minnesota, san fran), Orton is by far the more attractive option. Kolb just hasn't shown anything of great value in my opinion, and everything about him is based on potential, not proven worth.

But you give Orton a good O-Line and some good receivers, a nice tight end, and a good defense, and you're probably going to the playoffs.

bronco0608
01-10-2011, 11:07 AM
Just for perspective:

Matt Schaub, a 3rd round pick, was traded from Atlanta to Houston for a swap of 1st round picks, and two 2nd round picks.

He was 25 years old at the time and had completed 84 of 161 passes for 1,033 yards, with six touchdown passes and six interceptions.

Kyle Orton was a 3rd or 4th round pick, and has great stats.

And you guys THINK we can only get a 3rd for him? Come on.

bronco0608
01-10-2011, 11:10 AM
A 33 year old, injury prone Donovan McNabb was traded to Washington for a 2nd AND a 4th round pick. 33 years old! What other position, at that age, could get such a high pick? Orton is only 28 years old.

_Oro_
01-10-2011, 11:11 AM
I always liked McD's plan of pumping up Orton and Lloyd's stats to cash in on a huge payday of pics. If Orton and Lloyd both turn into first or second round picks and Tebow turns out, then we could go from the talent barren desert that we are now to being stocked full of young talent very quickly.

bronco0608
01-10-2011, 11:13 AM
A 30 year old statue of a QB in Drew Bledsoe was traded from the Patriots to the Bills for their 1st round pick. Drew freaking Bledsoe. After nine years in the leauge, everyone knew his shortcomings and they still gave up a 1st round pick for him.

That's the QB position.

Bronco Boy
01-10-2011, 11:16 AM
I always liked McD's plan of pumping up Orton and Lloyd's stats to cash in on a huge payday of pics. If Orton and Lloyd both turn into first or second round picks and Tebow turns out, then we could go from the talent barren desert that we are now to being stocked full of young talent very quickly.

That's making a pretty bold assumption that we actually make good draft picks.

bronco0608
01-10-2011, 11:17 AM
Look at what the Seahawks gave up for the Chargers 3rd string QB!

The Seahawks were interested in Charlie Whitehurst as soon as the Chargers tendered him at only a third round value. But without a pick in the third round, Seattle was going to need to be creative to make this trade happen.

Seattle and San Diego exchanged draft positions in the second round, moving the Chargers up to the 40th pick overall with Seattle moving down to the 60th slot.

Additionally, the Chargers will also receive a third round pick in 2011 from Seattle.

http://www.bolthype.com/2010/03/chargers-trade-charlie-whitehurst-and.html

ICON
01-10-2011, 11:18 AM
Hard to give up a first round pick this year, when they have no 2nd.

Maybe they could do it for next year's first.

_Oro_
01-10-2011, 11:18 AM
That's making a pretty bold assumption that we actually make good draft picks.

Okay how about I assume that every draft pick we will ever make will be crap and that we shouldn't even bother. How about we dismantle the team and tear down Invesco?

bloodsunday
01-10-2011, 11:19 AM
Funny how perspectives look different from different angles:

The Dolphins almost certainly would have to overpay with a No. 1 to tempt Denver into trading him. If I'm Denver, I'm not sure what I do then. I can't count on Tim Tebow that much.

People on this board are saying (I'm paraphrasing)


That Kyle Orton is nothing but trash. Tim Tebow shoulda been starting every game this season. Let's go all in with Tebow. Screw Kyle Orton.

gunns
01-10-2011, 11:23 AM
i'd be surprised if we got a 2nd rounder for Orton...

i'd be flat out SHOCKED and APPALLED if we got a #1 for him...

i like royal a lot, but i wouldnt hesitate to throw in royal if thats what it took...we are loaded at WR and we'll have problem finding playing time for all of them anyway...

could i anyone pass up on Miami's #1 pick because of eddie royal?...not me...

Me either, I'll help em pack.

bloodsunday
01-10-2011, 11:23 AM
Matt Schaub, a 3rd round pick, was traded from Atlanta to Houston for a swap of 1st round picks, and two 2nd round picks.

And you guys THINK we can only get a 3rd for him? Come on.

Here's the problem with your logic, the NFL-world at large thinks about Orton the way most everyone on this board does: He's a system guy that is either close to or at his ceiling. No one gives up #2s or #1s for those types of guys.

McNabb was considered and "franchise QB", everyone (namely Shanahan's organization's) pay up big for those.

Schaub was relatively unknown, so he didn't come with the tag of "system guy", "game manager", or "near his ceiling". He came with the hopes of being a "franchise" guy.

Orton has too many miles on him to garner more than a 3rd rounder. People know all they need (or want) to know about him.

Bronco Boy
01-10-2011, 11:23 AM
Okay how about I assume that every draft pick we will ever make will be crap and that we shouldn't even bother. How about we dismantle the team and tear down Invesco?

It's strange that you think that's the opposing viewpoint, but whatever dude.

gyldenlove
01-10-2011, 11:23 AM
Why is Orton not worth a #1? There are several teams in need of a QB and Orton is one of the best available.

Orton is worth whatever the highest bidder wants to pay, nothing more, nothing less.

Bronco Boy
01-10-2011, 11:25 AM
Orton is worth whatever the highest bidder wants to pay, nothing more, nothing less.

Now that is some brilliant insight.

Smelvin
01-10-2011, 11:29 AM
Hard to give up a first round pick this year, when they have no 2nd.

Maybe they could do it for next year's first.

Next year's first would be awesome! If Tebow doesn't show he's the guy this year, more ammo to cash in on the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

cmhargrove
01-10-2011, 11:31 AM
So you're saying we might have an extra first round pick to blow?

strafen
01-10-2011, 11:34 AM
You guys think starting caliber NFL are everywhere. They are not. Right now, there are only 20-22 guys who have the credentials/talent to be a darn solid starting QB in the NFL and Orton is one of them. 10,000 yards, 60 tds, 30 ints, 59% completion over the past three seasons as an NFL qb.

You guys act as if ANYBODY can do it, but they cant.

QBs are a premium position and if you think Orton is going for less than a 2nd round pick, then you know nothing about football.We will see. I don't think we would get a 1st rounder for Orton, but there's always a sucker born everyday...

Rohirrim
01-10-2011, 11:39 AM
A RB? Perfect scenario: Vikes trade up for Cam Newton. Fins give us their pick for Orton. We come out of the first round with Stephen Paea and Cameron Jordan and extra picks from the Vikes, etc. ;D

Rigs11
01-10-2011, 12:05 PM
orton is not worth a 2nd,but tebow is the second coming of elway. gotta love the denver fan baseHilarious!

TonyR
01-10-2011, 12:26 PM
Tennessee and Minnesota need a QB, so it's not just Miami. And KC, Washington, Seattle, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Cleveland, and Oakland, among others, might make changes. What's my point? There will be a market for Kyle Orton.

edog24
01-10-2011, 12:31 PM
Orton and Royal for a first? Make it happen! We can replace Royal easily farther down the draft.

Rohirrim
01-10-2011, 12:32 PM
Tennessee and Minnesota need a QB, so it's not just Miami. And KC, Washington, Seattle, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Cleveland, and Oakland, among others, might make changes. What's my point? There will be a market for Kyle Orton.

There will also be a market for the #2 pick right in front of the Bills if somebody (say Snyder) gets the hots for Cam, or whoever. I'm guessing the Panthers take Bowers, Peterson or Green #1. If somebody wants a QB really bad, they're going to want to jump the Bills pick. I'm hoping there's a scenario where we trade down, leave the first round with Paea and Cameron Jordan (Fins pick for Orton) and have three seconds (Skins), plus an extra pick for next year. ;)

Kaylore
01-10-2011, 12:35 PM
Everyone is aware this is a blog and not even a real news story, right?

Shanny's glint in the eye says hi...

Mr. Elway
01-10-2011, 12:39 PM
Can our forum approve a player trade proposed by their blog? This is excellent news, I think we should go for it.

TonyR
01-10-2011, 12:42 PM
There will also be a market for the #2 pick right in front of the Bills if somebody (say Snyder) gets the hots for Cam, or whoever.

Yup. Let's hope our new FO is competent enough to know what to do with all of this potential.

serious hops
01-10-2011, 12:51 PM
Hell, I'd throw in Royal OR Lloyd to get a good first for Orton.

RaiderH8r
01-10-2011, 01:16 PM
Me either, I'll help em pack.

I'd kick him out of a moving car right on Sparano's front door step.

RaiderH8r
01-10-2011, 01:17 PM
Everyone is aware this is a blog and not even a real news story, right?

Shanny's glint in the eye says hi...

But it's a tremendous offer. We would be fools not to consider this legitimate.

Jetmeck
01-10-2011, 01:21 PM
Orton has more value than a lot of you guys are thinking.

Yep and McD was a great coach too..................

Beantown Bronco
01-10-2011, 01:26 PM
Everyone is aware this is a blog and not even a real news story, right?

Shanny's glint in the eye says hi...

Still, the author does have some cred:

DAVE HYDE finished second in 2009 in voting for the nation’s top sports columnists by the Associated Press Sports Editors. It was the third time in four years he has finished second in the country in APSE voting for either column or sports feature writing. He has placed 13 times in the Top 10 of APSE writing categories in his career, including a first for investigative work. His writing has been featured in the “Best American Sports Writing” anthology and he has authored “Still Perfect: The Untold Story of the 1972 Miami Dolphins” and "1968: The Year That Saved Ohio State Football.” He worked for Miami Herald before coming to the Sun Sentinel in 1990.

UberBroncoMan
01-10-2011, 01:29 PM
A lot of teams are in need of a starting QB this year. I think we can get a 2nd for Orton for sure. I can live with Tebow and Quinn as the backup. Orton deserves to start somewhere. Won't be here though. I'm hoping Minni gets McD and pulls the gun for their 2nd. A new regime and the #2 pick in the draft and THREE 2nd rounders would be a great start...especially since we have no 4th or 5th rounder.

UberBroncoMan
01-10-2011, 01:30 PM
So you're saying we might have an extra first round pick to blow?

WTB defense not another RB. If we go back to ZBS a new RB will matter even less.

DHallblows
01-10-2011, 01:33 PM
Never gonna happen, but I'd love Orton and Royal for a 1st.
I'm gonna be honest (along with upsetting some people here) and point out how little Eddie has done. He's not even good at what he was brought in to do (return punts). He probably leads the league in fair catches called this season.
Pull the trigger on what this random blog writer says!

strafen
01-10-2011, 01:39 PM
Throw Moreno in that deal instead of Royal.
We need to rid ourselves of dead weight

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-10-2011, 01:40 PM
Everyone is aware this is a blog and not even a real news story, right?

Shanny's glint in the eye says hi...

Everyone out of the thread! Speculation not allowed.

extralife
01-10-2011, 01:51 PM
The problem with Orton is he has to compete with Young, who costs nothing, and McNabb, who probably costs nothing. And then there's the Kevin Kolb situation on top of that. We'll see.

Popps
01-10-2011, 01:55 PM
Vernon Davis says bring in Orton. It's going to be a bidding war!
Culteresque... at least two no. 1's
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Wow, good find.

ColoradoDarin
01-10-2011, 01:56 PM
The problem with Orton is he has to compete with Young, who costs nothing, and McNabb, who probably costs nothing. And then there's the Kevin Kolb situation on top of that. We'll see.

Young costs mental stability and locker room cohesiveness. McNabb costs high probability of suckage. Kolb will cost a first at least, and is still a bit unknown.

There is a market for Orton, he's relatively low-risk. Especially for a team like the Vikings, with a defense and a running game. A minimum of a 2nd round pick is completely reasonable.

OrangeSe7en
01-10-2011, 02:02 PM
The problem with Orton is he has to compete with Young, who costs nothing, and McNabb, who probably costs nothing. And then there's the Kevin Kolb situation on top of that. We'll see.

McNabb is in his mid 30s and has run one system successfully. Kolb has also run one system successfully. Orton has functioned in more than one system.

Gcver2ver3
01-10-2011, 02:09 PM
The problem with Orton is he has to compete with Young, who costs nothing, and McNabb, who probably costs nothing. And then there's the Kevin Kolb situation on top of that. We'll see.

he has to compete with them, yes...

but he wins that comparison...when you measure his performance, experience, age, and contract...he wins pretty hands down over the comp...

with that said, a #1 would shock me...i'd be estatic over a 2nd rd pick...

Dedhed
01-10-2011, 02:15 PM
If any team gives Denver more than a 2nd for orton it would be theft!

I like Kyle an all but a low 2nd 3rd is more likely.
I don't need more than a 2nd. I would be extremely happy with giving up Orton for a 3rd pick in the 2nd round.

HILife
01-10-2011, 02:38 PM
I'd take Orton for a first in a heartbeat. I don't like the idea of trading Royal unless the staff feels good about Decker and Thomas, and even then I'm lukewarm on the idea unless it's for good money.

Royal wants to be a Redskin anyway.

FYI, Royal and my brothers went to the same highschool.

mkporter
01-10-2011, 02:46 PM
Got bored and curious, so I put together a list of all the QB trades for the last 3 years. Here you go, discuss:

2010:
To Pittsburgh Steelers : Seventh-round draft pick.
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : QB Byron Leftwich

To Philadelphia Eagles : 2010 2nd round pick and a 3rd or 4th round pick in 2011
To Washington Redskins : QB Donovan McNabb

To Seattle Seahawks : 2010 2nd round pick (60) and QB Charlie Whitehurst
To San Diego Chargers : 2010 2nd round pick (40) and 2011 3rd round pick

To San Francisco : 2010 7th round pick
To Detroit Lions : QB Shaun Hill

To Denver Broncos : QB Brady Quinn
To Cleveland Browns : FB Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th round pick, 2012 conditional pick

To Seattle Seahawks : conditional 7th round pick in 2011
To Cleveland Browns : QB Seneca Wallace

2009:
To Minnesota Vikings : (QB)Sage Rosenfels
To Houston Texans : 2009 4th Round Draft Pick

To Kansas City Chiefs : (QB)Matt Cassel & (LB)Mike Vrabel
To New England Patriots : 2009 2nd Round Draft Pick

To Dallas Cowboys : (QB)Jon Kitna
To Detroit Lions : (CB)Anthony Henry

To Chicago Bears : (QB)Jay Cutler & 2009 5th Round Draft Pick
To Denver Broncos : (QB)Kyle Orton & 2009 1st Round Draft Pick & 2009 3rd Round Draft Pick & 2010 1st Round Draft Pick

To Jacksonville Jaguars : (QB)Luke McCown
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : 2010 Conditional 5th Round Draft Pick

To New York Jets : (QB)Kevin O’Connell
To Detroit Lions : 2011 7th Round Pick

To Miami Dolphins : (QB)Tyler Thigpen
To Kansas City Chiefs : 2010 4th Round Draft Pick

2008:
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : Brian Griese
To Chicago Bears : 2009 6th Round Pick

To Carolina Panthers : Josh McCown
From Miami Dolphins : 2009 7th Round pick

To New York Jets : Brett Favre
To Green Bay Packers : 2009 Conditional pick (3rd Round)

Dedhed
01-10-2011, 02:50 PM
Got bored and curious, so I put together a list of all the QB trades for the last 3 years. Here you go, discuss:

2010:
To Pittsburgh Steelers : Seventh-round draft pick.
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : QB Byron Leftwich

To Philadelphia Eagles : 2010 2nd round pick and a 3rd or 4th round pick in 2011
To Washington Redskins : QB Donovan McNabb

To Seattle Seahawks : 2010 2nd round pick (60) and QB Charlie Whitehurst
To San Diego Chargers : 2010 2nd round pick (40) and 2011 3rd round pick

To San Francisco : 2010 7th round pick
To Detroit Lions : QB Shaun Hill

To Denver Broncos : QB Brady Quinn
To Cleveland Browns : FB Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th round pick, 2012 conditional pick

To Seattle Seahawks : conditional 7th round pick in 2011
To Cleveland Browns : QB Seneca Wallace

2009:
To Minnesota Vikings : (QB)Sage Rosenfels
To Houston Texans : 2009 4th Round Draft Pick

To Kansas City Chiefs : (QB)Matt Cassel & (LB)Mike Vrabel
To New England Patriots : 2009 2nd Round Draft Pick

To Dallas Cowboys : (QB)Jon Kitna
To Detroit Lions : (CB)Anthony Henry

To Chicago Bears : (QB)Jay Cutler & 2009 5th Round Draft Pick
To Denver Broncos : (QB)Kyle Orton & 2009 1st Round Draft Pick & 2009 3rd Round Draft Pick & 2010 1st Round Draft Pick

To Jacksonville Jaguars : (QB)Luke McCown
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : 2010 Conditional 5th Round Draft Pick

To New York Jets : (QB)Kevin O’Connell
To Detroit Lions : 2011 7th Round Pick

To Miami Dolphins : (QB)Tyler Thigpen
To Kansas City Chiefs : 2010 4th Round Draft Pick

2008:
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : Brian Griese
To Chicago Bears : 2009 6th Round Pick

To Carolina Panthers : Josh McCown
From Miami Dolphins : 2009 7th Round pick

To New York Jets : Brett Favre
To Green Bay Packers : 2009 Conditional pick (3rd Round)

I would guess that Orton would be at least as appealing to certain teams as McNabb and Whitehurst were to the Skins and Seahawks respectively.

He lead the league in passing for a good chunk of the year, there's no doubt he'll be overrated by someone.

Not as overrated as Cutler, but overrated nonetheless.

baja
01-10-2011, 03:03 PM
Orton isn't going anywhere next year.

Mile High Shack
01-10-2011, 03:06 PM
Orton isn't going anywhere next year.

I seriously doubt we are going to pay 8+ million for a backup

Pick Six
01-10-2011, 03:32 PM
I seriously doubt we are going to pay 8+ million for a backup

Aside from a contract restructuring, I see Orton gone (unfortunately). If he would agree to less money, I would LOVE for him to be a solid backup in Denver.

Tebow-Orton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orton-Simms

Bronco Yoda
01-10-2011, 04:19 PM
I can't believe some here are willing to throw away Royal.

Gort
01-10-2011, 04:19 PM
Id do it in a heartbeat

that's crazy.

2 starting NFL players for 1 unproven #1 pick??? huh?

thankfully you don't work in the FO. it's one of the most foolish things i've heard on the OM in weeks.

i'm not sure what Orton's contract status is right now, but IIRC he's under contract only for 2011. so trade him for at least 2 picks. that's reasonable since he doesn't fit our plans here. but Royal is a going to be a starting WR in this league for years to come... you don't "throw him" into a deal as a sweetener like McD did with Hillis. that's just bat**** crazy.

Gort
01-10-2011, 04:22 PM
I can't believe some here are willing to throw away Royal.

newsflash.

there are dumb people in the world.

we need a smiley icon for some of these harebrained trade ideas that are posted here. i suggest the "facepalm". it's up to Taco to upload it to the smiley part of Vbulletin so that people can start using it.

http://forums.revora.net/style_emoticons/default/facepalm.gif

Gort
01-10-2011, 04:23 PM
I seriously doubt we are going to pay 8+ million for a backup

Orton is gone (*). Quinn is very cheap for an NFL QB. he'll stick around as backup. i'm sure the new HC will get a vet or UFA to compete in camp as well. but i expect Tebow #1 and Quinn #2 to start 2011, if there is a 2011.

* = Dave Logan covered this a week ago on the radio. you can't have Orton and Tebow both on the team next year. alot of guys feel loyalty to Orton and it will cause a schism in the locker room. you can't have that. Orton doesn't want to be a back-up, so he's gone. Logan of course knows what he's talking about as a former NFL player. makes perfect sense to me.

Tombstone RJ
01-10-2011, 04:45 PM
Got bored and curious, so I put together a list of all the QB trades for the last 3 years. Here you go, discuss:

2010:
To Pittsburgh Steelers : Seventh-round draft pick.
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : QB Byron Leftwich

To Philadelphia Eagles : 2010 2nd round pick and a 3rd or 4th round pick in 2011
To Washington Redskins : QB Donovan McNabb

To Seattle Seahawks : 2010 2nd round pick (60) and QB Charlie Whitehurst
To San Diego Chargers : 2010 2nd round pick (40) and 2011 3rd round pick

To San Francisco : 2010 7th round pick
To Detroit Lions : QB Shaun Hill

To Denver Broncos : QB Brady Quinn
To Cleveland Browns : FB Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th round pick, 2012 conditional pick

To Seattle Seahawks : conditional 7th round pick in 2011
To Cleveland Browns : QB Seneca Wallace

2009:
To Minnesota Vikings : (QB)Sage Rosenfels
To Houston Texans : 2009 4th Round Draft Pick

To Kansas City Chiefs : (QB)Matt Cassel & (LB)Mike Vrabel
To New England Patriots : 2009 2nd Round Draft Pick

To Dallas Cowboys : (QB)Jon Kitna
To Detroit Lions : (CB)Anthony Henry

To Chicago Bears : (QB)Jay Cutler & 2009 5th Round Draft Pick
To Denver Broncos : (QB)Kyle Orton & 2009 1st Round Draft Pick & 2009 3rd Round Draft Pick & 2010 1st Round Draft Pick

To Jacksonville Jaguars : (QB)Luke McCown
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : 2010 Conditional 5th Round Draft Pick

To New York Jets : (QB)Kevin O’Connell
To Detroit Lions : 2011 7th Round Pick

To Miami Dolphins : (QB)Tyler Thigpen
To Kansas City Chiefs : 2010 4th Round Draft Pick

2008:
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : Brian Griese
To Chicago Bears : 2009 6th Round Pick

To Carolina Panthers : Josh McCown
From Miami Dolphins : 2009 7th Round pick

To New York Jets : Brett Favre
To Green Bay Packers : 2009 Conditional pick (3rd Round)

With Orton's fat contract, I'm thinking a 4th round pick is about as good as it's gonna get. I hope I'm wrong...

troya900
01-10-2011, 04:58 PM
This would be just the sweetest irony if this trade happened. Remember when that loser Henne had this to say:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/03/dolphins-chad-henne-hes-not-an-nfl-quarterback/1.

Would be awesome if the QB that Tebow ran out of town is traded and replaces Henne's worthless :clown: ass hahahaha.

OrangeSe7en
01-10-2011, 05:03 PM
This would be just the sweetest irony if this trade happened. Remember when that loser Henne had this to say:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/03/dolphins-chad-henne-hes-not-an-nfl-quarterback/1.

Would be awesome if the QB that Tebow ran out of town is traded and replaces Henne's worthless :clown: ass hahahaha.

Good find.

mkporter
01-10-2011, 05:22 PM
With Orton's fat contract, I'm thinking a 4th round pick is about as good as it's gonna get. I hope I'm wrong...

His contract is not that big of a deal IMO. He get's average starter's money with only a one year commitment. Sage Rosenfels and Tyler Thigpen were acquired for 4th rounders. Kyle is far and away a better QB than either of them.

*WARHORSE*
01-10-2011, 06:03 PM
Kyle Orton is the best playaction QB in the league as far as carrying out his fakes. Even without a running game, play action worked in Denver, and all you gotta do is go watch the tape.

Number one imo.


Kyle in Minnesota would be killer witht AP on the wire.

If Matt Schaub could bring a high second with nothing but preseason tape, and a little game action, then Kyle can bring a one. What difference would Orton make in Miami?


A BIG difference because hes head and shoulders better than Henne. And they have a good running game and Oline.

mattob14
01-10-2011, 06:27 PM
I can't believe some here are willing to throw away Royal.

I don't think anyone wants to "throw away" Royal. They're just commenting on the original article, which advocates an Orton/Royal for #15 trade. IMO, that'd be a pretty strong offer from Miami and could really jump-start the defensive re-build. I could see a scenario where Arizona, looking to get their top-rated QB before Buffalo can, gives #5 and #40 for #2. That would leave Denver with #5, #15, #36, #40, #46, and #67.

Give me Marcel Dareus and JJ Watt in the 1st, Kenny Tate, Jimmy Smith, and Dontay Moch in round 2, then either Jerrel Jernigan or Titus Young to replace Royal in round 3. That's a serious defensive talent upgrade, and you really don't lose much, if anything, at WR. I don't see Miami making this deal, but if they put the offer out there, I don't see how you can say no. That's a lot of value for a second-string QB and slot receiver.

TDmvp
01-10-2011, 06:32 PM
newsflash.

there are dumb people in the world.

we need a smiley icon for some of these harebrained trade ideas that are posted here. i suggest the "facepalm". it's up to Taco to upload it to the smiley part of Vbulletin so that people can start using it.

http://forums.revora.net/style_emoticons/default/facepalm.gif


I keep this one on imageshack just for those times LOL ...

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz186/hanako76/smilies/Face_Palm_by_Mirz123.gif

McDman
01-10-2011, 07:01 PM
orton is not worth a 2nd,but tebow is the second coming of elway. gotta love the denver fan baseHilarious!

I don't think that's the case. We know what we're going to get with Orton, and that does not include a Super Bowl. He's a good QB but we know what he's going to do and how he is going to play. He's a guy who can march you down the field but is average in the red zone and is below average when the pressure is on in the fourth quarter. He also cannot handle a blitz very well.

With Tebow we've seen what his potential can really bring. Will he actually live up to what we hope he can be? Maybe, maybe not, but we do know he has a big upside and we haven't had time to see how it's going to turn out.

I think it's more about people being excited about Tebow. Orton gets no one excited.

McDman
01-10-2011, 07:03 PM
Throw Moreno in that deal instead of Royal.
We need to rid ourselves of dead weight

Brilliant. Get rid of our one rb who has potential to do anything.

That way we can draft one again instead of working on our defense!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-10-2011, 08:39 PM
Kyle Orton is the best playaction QB in the league as far as carrying out his fakes. Even without a running game, play action worked in Denver, and all you gotta do is go watch the tape.

Number one imo.


Kyle in Minnesota would be killer witht AP on the wire.

If Matt Schaub could bring a high second with nothing but preseason tape, and a little game action, then Kyle can bring a one. What difference would Orton make in Miami?
A BIG difference because hes head and shoulders better than Henne. And they have a good running game and Oline.

Thank You!!!

baja
01-10-2011, 08:47 PM
Only way Orton goes anywhere is if Quinn is ready to be a viable backup.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-10-2011, 08:48 PM
Got bored and curious, so I put together a list of all the QB trades for the last 3 years. Here you go, discuss:

2010:
To Pittsburgh Steelers : Seventh-round draft pick.
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : QB Byron Leftwich

To Philadelphia Eagles : 2010 2nd round pick and a 3rd or 4th round pick in 2011
To Washington Redskins : QB Donovan McNabb Old

To Seattle Seahawks : 2010 2nd round pick (60) and QB Charlie Whitehurst
To San Diego Chargers : 2010 2nd round pick (40) and 2011 3rd round pick Never a starter

To San Francisco : 2010 7th round pick
To Detroit Lions : QB Shaun Hill

To Denver Broncos : QB Brady Quinn
To Cleveland Browns : FB Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th round pick, 2012 conditional pick Don't get me started

To Seattle Seahawks : conditional 7th round pick in 2011
To Cleveland Browns : QB Seneca Wallace

2009:
To Minnesota Vikings : (QB)Sage Rosenfels
To Houston Texans : 2009 4th Round Draft Pick

To Kansas City Chiefs : (QB)Matt Cassel & (LB)Mike Vrabel
To New England Patriots : 2009 2nd Round Draft Pick Most close to our sitch

To Dallas Cowboys : (QB)Jon Kitna
To Detroit Lions : (CB)Anthony Henry

To Chicago Bears : (QB)Jay Cutler & 2009 5th Round Draft Pick
To Denver Broncos : (QB)Kyle Orton & 2009 1st Round Draft Pick & 2009 3rd Round Draft Pick & 2010 1st Round Draft Pick What we should aim for

To Jacksonville Jaguars : (QB)Luke McCown
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : 2010 Conditional 5th Round Draft Pick

To New York Jets : (QB)Kevin O’Connell
To Detroit Lions : 2011 7th Round Pick

To Miami Dolphins : (QB)Tyler Thigpen
To Kansas City Chiefs : 2010 4th Round Draft Pick

2008:
To Tampa Bay Buccaneers : Brian Griese
To Chicago Bears : 2009 6th Round Pick

To Carolina Panthers : Josh McCown
From Miami Dolphins : 2009 7th Round pick

To New York Jets : Brett Favre
To Green Bay Packers : 2009 Conditional pick (3rd Round)

I'd settle for a second. However, I'd go to any team offering a second and tell them that Orton is going to be a guy that starts for them for atleast the next 2-3 years and thats worth at least a first. If you look at it that way we should expect a 1st in some form.

The Joker
01-11-2011, 01:34 AM
Only way Orton goes anywhere is if Quinn is ready to be a viable backup.

Why?

I don't see much value in having Orton around for one year as an extremely well paid backup, especially when you consider we're not likely going to be contending for anything next season.

Take what you can get for him now and move on, we've a lengthy rebuild in front of us and whether we have a capable backup QB next season is more or less irrelevant to us. A Day 2 draft pick on the other hand could be very useful.

footstepsfrom#27
01-11-2011, 01:58 AM
You know it just occured to me...how long is Brandon Marshall signed for in Miami? I ask because it's probable that if he's not playing with a QB that trusts him and will get him the ball, he's not going to be very happy. If he's not happy, he's probably not staying around when the cocntract runs out. So if the Fins don't want to lose the value of those two #2's they gave us for him, they have to ensure that Marshall sticks around a while. Orton fits the bill as a guy who will get B-Marsh the ball, which we all know. It makes some sense if Denver insists on that #1 that Miami might have to do it...an ironic twist; they fleece us for Marshall and in order to keep him happy they have to let us fleece them out of a #1 pick. How sweet would it be if a guy like Robert Quinn or Stephen Peae were sitting there? The trick would be having a second suitor to up the ante...Vikings?

Agamemnon
01-11-2011, 02:05 AM
You know it just occured to me...how long is Brandon Marshall signed for in Miami? I ask because it's probable that if he's not playing with a QB that trusts him and will get him the ball, he's not going to be very happy. If he's not happy, he's probably not staying around when the cocntract runs out. So if the Fins don't want to lose the value of those two #2's they gave us for him, they have to ensure that Marshall sticks around a while. Orton fits the bill as a guy who will get B-Marsh the ball, which we all know. It makes some sense if Denver insists on that #1 that Miami might have to do it...an ironic twist; they fleece us for Marshall and in order to keep him happy they have to let us fleece them out of a #1 pick. How sweet would it be if a guy like Robert Quinn or Stephen Peae were sitting there? The trick would be having a second suitor to up the ante...Vikings?

LMAO at Miami "fleecing" us for Marshall. Hilarious!

ZONA
01-11-2011, 02:08 AM
Throw in Royal? Gimmie a break. You're already getting rid of a solid NFL starting QB and you want to also throw in a solid starting NFL proven WR who can return punts, for a draft pick that hasn't proven anything in the NFL? I can't imagine any GM who would make that deal. Not with Royal. Maybe a guy like Woodyard or something.

footstepsfrom#27
01-11-2011, 02:21 AM
LMAO at Miami "fleecing" us for Marshall. Hilarious!
At the time the trade was made, nobody on this board envisioned Brandon Loyd stepping right in and leading the NFL in receiving yardage. Had that unlikely event not taken place, imagine where our offense would have been? I think at the time, a lot of people felt like Marshall might have been a big pain in the ass, but he was damn talented one and worth more than we got. In retrospect, that was McDaniel's best move along with getting Tebow.

footstepsfrom#27
01-11-2011, 02:23 AM
Throw in Royal? Gimmie a break. You're already getting rid of a solid NFL starting QB and you want to also throw in a solid starting NFL proven WR who can return punts, for a draft pick that hasn't proven anything in the NFL? I can't imagine any GM who would make that deal. Not with Royal. Maybe a guy like Woodyard or something.
Woodyard? Hell no don't give 'em WWIII I like that dude on special teams and any time he gets a chance to play he comes through. Throw in Richard Quinn instead.

Agamemnon
01-11-2011, 02:24 AM
At the time the trade was made, nobody on this board envisioned Brandon Loyd stepping right in and leading the NFL in receiving yardage. Had that unlikely event not taken place, imagine where our offense would have been? I think at the time, a lot of people felt like Marshall might have been a big pain in the ass, but he was damn talented one and worth more than we got. In retrospect, that was McDaniel's best move along with getting Tebow.

Sorry, but no. Marshall is probably the most overrated WR in the game. Getting two second rounders for the guy was the only "fleecing" that took place in that trade.

footstepsfrom#27
01-11-2011, 02:33 AM
Sorry, but no. Marshall is probably the most overrated WR in the game. Getting two second rounders for the guy was the only "fleecing" that took place in that trade.
Seriously...the most overrated receiver in the game? You're joking right? Dude...that was KYLE ORTON throwing the ball...in fact it was Orton who was probably injured...remember how we said he couldn't throw the ball 20 yards? Marshall's not ovverated, though he didn't have the year he should have either. And the #2 picks...the jury is out on that till we see who we get with that last pick. Right now we've close to saying the last three 2nd rounders, Quinn, Smith and McBath...are all busts.

Agamemnon
01-11-2011, 03:08 AM
Seriously...the most overrated receiver in the game? You're joking right? Dude...that was KYLE ORTON throwing the ball...in fact it was Orton who was probably injured...remember how we said he couldn't throw the ball 20 yards? Marshall's not ovverated, though he didn't have the year he should have either. And the #2 picks...the jury is out on that till we see who we get with that last pick. Right now we've close to saying the last three 2nd rounders, Quinn, Smith and McBath...are all busts.

I'm not joking. Marshall is a very mediocre #1 or a very good #2 on most rosters.

ol#7
01-11-2011, 04:12 AM
Come on Agamemnon, for what your saying to be true then you think there are 20-30 WR's in the league better than Brandon Marshall. Im sorry but that is just preposterous! The guy has talent, no need to diminish what he is capable of.

I dont think Orton will bring as much as some here seem to think, there are 4 potential 1st round QB's in the draft, plus Kolb/McNabb/Young, thats alot of availability for the QB position. why would a team feel the need to get antsy over Orton? Seems like many other directions the Minnesotas and Miami's of the world could go without overpaying for Kyle.

Agamemnon
01-11-2011, 04:28 AM
Come on Agamemnon, for what your saying to be true then you think there are 20-30 WR's in the league better than Brandon Marshall. Im sorry but that is just preposterous! The guy has talent, no need to diminish what he is capable of.


No, what I'm saying is there are at least 10-15 WRs in the league that are better than Brandon Marshall. 20-30 would make him a crappy #1 which is not what I said.

Drek
01-11-2011, 05:15 AM
At the time the trade was made, nobody on this board envisioned Brandon Loyd stepping right in and leading the NFL in receiving yardage. Had that unlikely event not taken place, imagine where our offense would have been? I think at the time, a lot of people felt like Marshall might have been a big pain in the ass, but he was damn talented one and worth more than we got. In retrospect, that was McDaniel's best move along with getting Tebow.

That trade was us fleecing Miami from day one. Marshall wasn't going to play happy for anyone who didn't give him a massive contract. He's a massive risk on a massive contract so we weren't giving it to him. We traded a one year rental of Marshall for two pretty early 2nds.

The Cutler deal was the best move McDaniels made and when we deal Orton will once again reward us. Trading back from #12 to grab both Thomas and Tebow was his second best move. Trading Marshall was easily his third best.

McDaniels hit the signature deals out of the park, he just couldn't do the basics to make the rest of the team solid.

Agamemnon
01-11-2011, 05:24 AM
That trade was us fleecing Miami from day one. Marshall wasn't going to play happy for anyone who didn't give him a massive contract. He's a massive risk on a massive contract so we weren't giving it to him. We traded a one year rental of Marshall for two pretty early 2nds.

The Cutler deal was the best move McDaniels made and when we deal Orton will once again reward us. Trading back from #12 to grab both Thomas and Tebow was his second best move. Trading Marshall was easily his third best.

McDaniels hit the signature deals out of the park, he just couldn't do the basics to make the rest of the team solid.

He also failed to make much of the draft picks he gained in his first year. We got two decent but not great players in the 1st round and pretty much nothing in the 2nd.

Drek
01-11-2011, 05:44 AM
He also failed to make much of the draft picks he gained in his first year. We got two decent but not great players in the 1st round and pretty much nothing in the 2nd.

I'd like to see Moreno in a real run capable offensive system before I pass judgement on him, and Ayers was starting to come alive before getting hurt last year so I look forward to see what a 3rd year Ayers can do if we keep him at OLB. Those picks might look pretty good long term.

The 2nd wasn't good because he bailed out on Smith way too soon (trading a future 1st for a 2nd was McDaniels' worst FO move, followed by giving up on Smith one year out from the draft). If we'd had Smith and put him in Goodman's place instead of Cox we might have really liked what we saw.

McBath has been hit by a ton of freak injuries, so we'll have to see if he ever gets a real chance to play.

Overall the jury on his first draft is still out. They might surprise you given some real coaching and a conducive defensive system.

Kaylore
01-11-2011, 05:49 AM
At the time the trade was made, nobody on this board envisioned Brandon Loyd stepping right in and leading the NFL in receiving yardage. Had that unlikely event not taken place, imagine where our offense would have been? I think at the time, a lot of people felt like Marshall might have been a big pain in the ass, but he was damn talented one and worth more than we got. In retrospect, that was McDaniel's best move along with getting Tebow.

That's not even the point. Even if Lloyd didn't blow up, the Dolphins gave us two second round picks for a receiver that did next to nothing for them that year, especially in clutch situations, is a horrible human being and one parking ticket away from a suspension. How you or anyone can say we got "fleeced" in the deal is beyond me.

Agamemnon
01-11-2011, 05:52 AM
I'd like to see Moreno in a real run capable offensive system before I pass judgement on him, and Ayers was starting to come alive before getting hurt last year so I look forward to see what a 3rd year Ayers can do if we keep him at OLB. Those picks might look pretty good long term.

The 2nd wasn't good because he bailed out on Smith way too soon (trading a future 1st for a 2nd was McDaniels' worst FO move, followed by giving up on Smith one year out from the draft). If we'd had Smith and put him in Goodman's place instead of Cox we might have really liked what we saw.

McBath has been hit by a ton of freak injuries, so we'll have to see if he ever gets a real chance to play.

Overall the jury on his first draft is still out. They might surprise you given some real coaching and a conducive defensive system.

I think we pretty much know what we have with all those guys after two seasons. We have a capable back that lacks the durability to carry the load and the speed to break off big runs (Moreno is a good back to have in a rotation but probably isn't ever going to fulfill where he was drafted). We have an incredibly strong and athletic player playing out of position in Ayers (he's a strongside 4-3 DE if ever I've seen one and would greatly benefit from a transition to a 4-3 imo). We have a guy no longer on the roster. And we have a guy that looks somewhat promising at FS but can't stay on the field because he's apparently made of glass.

The jury's still out, but right now that draft is looking underwhelming to say the least.

strafen
01-11-2011, 05:56 AM
Throw in Royal? Gimmie a break. You're already getting rid of a solid NFL starting QB and you want to also throw in a solid starting NFL proven WR who can return punts, for a draft pick that hasn't proven anything in the NFL? I can't imagine any GM who would make that deal. Not with Royal. Maybe a guy like Woodyard or something.

That's what Mcdaniels taught our fans.
Don't think twice before you get rid of your star players!

strafen
01-11-2011, 06:01 AM
I'd like to see Moreno in a real run capable offensive system before I pass judgement on him, and Ayers was starting to come alive before getting hurt last year so I look forward to see what a 3rd year Ayers can do if we keep him at OLB. Those picks might look pretty good long term.

The 2nd wasn't good because he bailed out on Smith way too soon (trading a future 1st for a 2nd was McDaniels' worst FO move, followed by giving up on Smith one year out from the draft). If we'd had Smith and put him in Goodman's place instead of Cox we might have really liked what we saw.

McBath has been hit by a ton of freak injuries, so we'll have to see if he ever gets a real chance to play.

Overall the jury on his first draft is still out. They might surprise you given some real coaching and a conducive defensive system.How much of Moreno do you still want to see to before you pass judgment on him?
Are you kiddin' me?
Moreno and Ayers are not worth the spot they were taken.
Live to accept it. They're average at best.
When you draft players in the 1st round, you're hoping for impact players. Ayers and Moreno are NOT impact players...

Gcver2ver3
01-11-2011, 06:20 AM
i just heard that Adam Schefter reports that teams aren't able to trade players until a new CBA occurs, they can trade draft picks but not players...

Which means that a new CBA would have to happen before this year's draft. If this is the case, it's VERY unlikely we can get ANYTHING for Orton...

At least not for this year's draft...

Hamrob
01-11-2011, 08:06 AM
I think Andy Dalton from TCU would be a nice 6th or 7th round pick to use on a developmental #3 QB. He's got excellent mobility and is a very intelligent player, the perfect sort of backup you'd want for Tebow.Nice! Dalton is a kid with alot of talent. I'm not sure he's there in the 6th or 7th. He has prototypical size and is atheletic enough to go higher in the draft. If he has a good combine/pro day...he could go alot sooner.

Playing QB for TCU kind of goes unnoticed!

Hamrob
01-11-2011, 08:09 AM
That's not even the point. Even if Lloyd didn't blow up, the Dolphins gave us two second round picks for a receiver that did next to nothing for them that year, especially in clutch situations, is a horrible human being and one parking ticket away from a suspension. How you or anyone can say we got "fleeced" in the deal is beyond me.It was a fair trade.

Hate on Marshall, all you want. The guy still ended up with 90+ catches for 1000 yards...on that QBless team.

Agamemnon
01-11-2011, 08:16 AM
It was a fair trade.

Hate on Marshall, all you want. The guy still ended up with 90+ catches for 1000 yards...on that QBless team.

He had 86 catches actually, and he was targeted 146 times. That's not very impressive for a possession receiver that is a team's only real target. Dude is a terribly mediocre #1 WR. Period.

Just look: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Chris
01-11-2011, 08:16 AM
nice! Dalton is a kid with alot of talent. I'm not sure he's there in the 6th or 7th. He has prototypical size and is atheletic enough to go higher in the draft. If he has a good combine/pro day...he could go alot sooner.

Playing qb for tcu kind of goes unnoticed!

NO! No Gingers!:devil:

Agamemnon
01-11-2011, 08:37 AM
Nice! Dalton is a kid with alot of talent. I'm not sure he's there in the 6th or 7th. He has prototypical size and is atheletic enough to go higher in the draft. If he has a good combine/pro day...he could go alot sooner.

Playing QB for TCU kind of goes unnoticed!

I think Dalton's ceiling is the 4th round, and that's if he shows well for himself at his combine/pro day. His size is just adequate by today's standards, his arm is mediocre, his athleticism is pretty underwhelming (4.9 40), he has iffy mechanics (and we know how these guys harp on that), and he played in a weak conference. I predict he goes in the 5th round.

All that said, Carolina should draft him. He's better than Clausen by a mile. Hilarious!

schaaf
01-11-2011, 08:43 AM
NO! No Gingers!:devil:

yeah I like my broncos clean of gingers

footstepsfrom#27
01-11-2011, 08:57 AM
That's not even the point. Even if Lloyd didn't blow up, the Dolphins gave us two second round picks for a receiver that did next to nothing for them that year, especially in clutch situations, is a horrible human being and one parking ticket away from a suspension. How you or anyone can say we got "fleeced" in the deal is beyond me.
Many things are beyond you Kahn. ;D ...I'll break it down;

I just made a point about our perspective of the trade changing because of the success of Marshall's replacement, which you rejected as "not even the point". Then you turn around and base how Miami should value the trade based on what he did for them in his first year there. You don't see the irony here? In your value system the impact of the player is meaningless unless it favors Denver or justifies the trade. McD blew two #2's outright and it's looking like McBath is #3 unless he breaks out soon, and staying on the field would be a nice start. Picks are meaninlges unless they become players. A superstar talent might have a ****ty year, then bounce back with 100 catches and 1500 yards and 14 TD's...witness Loyd for example. There's no denying Marshall was more talented than any player the Broncos got in return, reguardless of how he graded out iin year one on that screwed up team.

I wish people would look at things without the orange glasses now and then.

listopencil
01-11-2011, 08:58 AM
Seriously...the most overrated receiver in the game? You're joking right? Dude...that was KYLE ORTON throwing the ball...in fact it was Orton who was probably injured...remember how we said he couldn't throw the ball 20 yards? Marshall's not ovverated, though he didn't have the year he should have either. And the #2 picks...the jury is out on that till we see who we get with that last pick. Right now we've close to saying the last three 2nd rounders, Quinn, Smith and McBath...are all busts.

I don't think Marshall is over rated at all. He has shown what he is capable of, and it's pretty good. It was definitely time to get him out of here though. That being said, I think a couple of 2nds was pretty good compensation. It doesn't matter how those picks turn out when evaluating the trade. When you trade for picks you are trading for the right to pick someone, plain and simple. If you blow the picks it's on you. It doesn't lower the value of the trade.

Agamemnon
01-11-2011, 09:01 AM
Many things are beyond you Kahn. ;D ...I'll break it down;

I just made a point about our perspective of the trade changing because of the success of Marshall's replacement, which you rejected as "not even the point". Then you turn around and base how Miami should value the trade based on what he did for them in his first year there. You don't see the irony here? In your value system the impact of the player is meaningless unless it favors Denver or justifies the trade. McD blew two #2's outright and it's looking like McBath is #3 unless he breaks out soon, and staying on the field would be a nice start. Picks are meaninlges unless they become players. A superstar talent might have a ****ty year, then bounce back with 100 catches and 1500 yards and 14 TD's...witness Loyd for example. There's no denying Marshall was more talented than any player the Broncos got in return, reguardless of how he graded out iin year one on that screwed up team.

I wish people would look at things without the orange glasses now and then.

We still have one more pick that we haven't used yet. And wasn't the first 2nd the majority of what we used to grab Tebow? Yeah I'm cool with that. Especially for a mediocre #1 receiver.

listopencil
01-11-2011, 09:04 AM
I just made a point about our perspective of the trade changing


Yeah, of course you can look back and change your perspective on the results of the trade. With hindsight we can debate whether that trade helped or hurt the Broncos. But I think you and Khan are talking about two different things here.

BroncoMan4ever
01-11-2011, 09:08 AM
I'd trade Orton and Royal for their #1 right now.

Although I'd ask them to throw in a conditional pick, anywhere from a 3-5 rounder based on play.

i'd need a 1st and at least an additional 5th if we throw in Royal.

Personally, i would be more receptive to giving them Orton and Gaffney. I think if we have a semi intelligent OC and HC we can expect Eddie to return to rookie form.

Also as DT and Decker are better suited to play on the outside, we could conceivably move on without Gaffney bettan than we could Eddie who is our only true slot receiver.