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View Full Version : Question; Why are we crucifying Ellis?


baja
01-09-2011, 09:12 PM
Facts please.

broncocalijohn
01-09-2011, 09:13 PM
I have topic as Q. What facts? Yes, that is a letter.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-09-2011, 09:14 PM
Because F--k him, that's why. :)

SoCalBronco
01-09-2011, 09:15 PM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHuAlDtEBidhHeaToG06OHgh8zsG59O wXtNqTe9jF8ukAkoeEC

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 09:15 PM
Because he hired 32 year old rookie head coach without going through a thorough hiring process, and then gave him the keys to the kingdom?

montrose
01-09-2011, 09:16 PM
Because F--k him, that's why. :)

Hilarious!

bowtown
01-09-2011, 09:18 PM
Because he hired 32 year old rookie head coach without going through a thorough hiring process, and then gave him the keys to the kingdom?

They did go through a thourough hiring process, they just didn't have the proper power structure in place for a first tim head coach to succeed

Premier-Ace55
01-09-2011, 09:19 PM
Because he hired 32 year old rookie head coach without going through a thorough hiring process, and then gave him the keys to the kingdom?

Um really I think it was a group decision and Mr. Bowlen was somewhat involved.

Gutless Drunk
01-09-2011, 09:21 PM
4-12

Josh McDaniels "In this league we are all judged by wins & losses"

OrangeSe7en
01-09-2011, 09:22 PM
Facts please.

Have you ever heard of the Midas Touch? Well the opposite of that is the Ellis Touch. If there were really a fountain of youth, Ellis would poison it if he went anywhere near it. The guy's a brown nosing caretaker who suddenly runs the Denver Broncos because he's a brown nosing caretaker.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 09:23 PM
Um really I think it was a group decision and Mr. Bowlen was somewhat involved.

I don't think Bowlen was involved at all, outside a "well what do you think Joe?". Pretty sure Ellis made the decision.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 09:24 PM
They did go through a thourough hiring process, they just didn't have the proper power structure in place for a first tim head coach to succeed

It was thorough? We interviewed three or four guys as I recall. That was it.

bowtown
01-09-2011, 09:25 PM
I don't think Bowlen was involved at all, outside a "well what do you think Joe?". Pretty sure Ellis made the decision.

I don't think this is true at all. Bowlen had a pretty big media presence during that hire. That said, I still think Ellis is the antichrist.

SoCalBronco
01-09-2011, 09:25 PM
Have you ever heard of the Midas Touch? Well the opposite of that is the Ellis Touch.

Yeah...I was just going to say, when Midnight Star came out with this music video, they didn't have Joe Ellis in mind.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DVe0o6lRgcY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DVe0o6lRgcY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

OrangeSe7en
01-09-2011, 09:25 PM
It was thorough? We interviewed three or four guys as I recall. That was it.

And they hired McDaniels because he did a power point presentation and the others didnt.

bowtown
01-09-2011, 09:26 PM
It was thorough? We interviewed three or four guys as I recall. That was it.

Yes, I believe we interviewed 4 guys. In this day and age that's as many or more than most teams interview before hiring their HC.

OrangeSe7en
01-09-2011, 09:28 PM
Yeah...I was just going to say, when Midnight Star came out with this music video, they didn't have Joe Ellis in mind.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DVe0o6lRgcY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DVe0o6lRgcY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Two things. 1. Thats kind of embarrassing. Was that from Breakin 2, Electric Boogaloo? 2. How did you get the video to show. Did you paste the embed code?

SoCalBronco
01-09-2011, 09:30 PM
Two things. 1. Thats kind of embarrassing. Was that from Breakin 2, Electric Boogaloo? 2. How did you get the video to show. Did you paste the embed code?

1. I don't remember where it was from...altho yes it is a bit embarassing..although not as embarassing as Joe Ellis.

2. Yeah, I pasted the embed code from Youtube.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 09:33 PM
Yes, I believe we interviewed 4 guys. In this day and age that's as many or more than most teams interview before hiring their HC.

And most teams are far from thorough. The 49ers come to mind actually. I don't think they interviewed anyone other than Harbaugh. Then again this is the team that hired Mike Singletary who, surprise surprise, turned out to be a bit crazy. This is one reason so many teams get into a vicious cycle of hiring the wrong guy over and over again. All I can say is thank goodness for Elway's patient and thorough approach.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 09:34 PM
And they hired McDaniels because he did a power point presentation and the others didnt.

Ding, ding, ding!

This is why Joe Ellis is a moron...

Mr. Elway
01-09-2011, 09:35 PM
He's the scapegoat du jour for the failures of the organization. I'd say the only thing he really did wrong was assume he had the knowhow to hire a head coach and give him the same powers as Shanahan. I'm sure he really wanted him to fail though. :oyvey:

bowtown
01-09-2011, 09:35 PM
And most teams are far from thorough. The 49ers come to mind actually. I don't think they interviewed anyone other than Harbaugh. Then again this is the team that hired Mike Singletary who, surprise surprise, turned out to be a bit crazy. This is one reason so many teams get into a vicious cycle of hiring the wrong guy over and over again. All I can say is thank goodness for Elway's patient and thorough approach.

What do you consider thourough? You got a number? 6? 8? 12? So far we have 4 interviews lined up. What if we hire one of those guys after they are done? Will you then suddenly change your tune on Elway's patient approach? If you find a guy that you think is the right hire, you hire him before he goes somewhere else. We had multiple interviews with McDaniels and a couple other candidates. It was a thourough process. It just wasn't a well thought out plan.

baja
01-09-2011, 09:35 PM
Remember he is completely out of the decision making loop once there is a head coach and a consensus is needed to make any major decision so Ellis has one of three votes to chose the HC and that is his first and last football related decision he will be in on.

Why should he be dismissed form running the business end. Do we know him to be a crook and incompetent in that area?

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 09:37 PM
Remember he is completely out of the decision making loop once there is a head coach and a consensus is needed to make any major decision so Ellis has one of three votes to chose the HC and that is his first and last football related decision he will be in on.

Why should he be dismissed form running the business end. Do we know him to be a crook and incompetent in that area?

Why does he have a vote regarding the HC? That's what I don't understand. The guy knows NOTHING about football.

bowtown
01-09-2011, 09:37 PM
Remember he is completely out of the decision making loop once there is a head coach and a consensus is needed to make any major decision so Ellis has one of three votes to chose the HC and that is his first and last football related decision he will be in on.

Why should he be dismissed form running the business end. Do we know him to be a crook and incompetent in that area?

Well he is a Bush, so there's that.

OrangeSe7en
01-09-2011, 09:38 PM
He's the scapegoat du jour for the failures of the organization. I'd say the only thing he really did wrong was assume he had the knowhow to hire a head coach and give him the same powers as Shanahan. I'm sure he really wanted him to fail though. :oyvey:

No, Ellis was also responsible for replacing one of the leaguegs greatest homefield advantages with that over-gentrified monstrocity with that corporate sellout name.

Im a little surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

bowtown
01-09-2011, 09:39 PM
No, Ellis was also responsible for replacing one of the leaguegs greatest homefield advantages with that over-gentrified monstrocity with that corporate sellout name.

Im a little surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

Welcome to modern day NFL. You think that's unique to Ellis or this team?

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 09:39 PM
What do you consider thourough? You got a number? 6? 8? 12? So far we have 4 interviews lined up. What if we hire one of those guys after they are done? Will you then suddenly change your tune on Elway's patient approach? If you find a guy that you think is the right hire, you hire him before he goes somewhere else. We had multiple interviews with McDaniels and a couple other candidates. It was a thourough process. It just wasn't a well thought out plan.

If we hire anyone without due diligence (which probably involves interviewing any candidates deemed promising) I will be disappointed. There isn't some magic number, but I will say that four is far from enough for such an important position.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 09:40 PM
Welcome to modern day NFL. You think that's unique to Ellis or this team?

Does that matter? All these soulless weasels deserve our scorn.

baja
01-09-2011, 09:43 PM
Why does he have a vote regarding the HC? That's what I don't understand. The guy knows NOTHING about football.

Well I'm not 100% sure that he does, I was thinking the worse case scenario, 1 out of 3 votes can not empower him to make that choice again.

bowtown
01-09-2011, 09:44 PM
If we hire anyone without due diligence (which probably involves interviewing any candidates deemed promising) I will be disappointed. There isn't some magic number, but I will say that four is far from enough for such an important position.

Couldn't disagree more. If your FO really has a plan, then it shouldn't have to interview lots of candidates. It should have done its homewor, figured out which guys best fit the mentality and system you want moving forward, and then hire the best of of the guys that bring what you are looking for to the table. Interviewing lots of candidates screams confusion and lack of direction to me.

baja
01-09-2011, 09:45 PM
Well he is a Bush, so there's that.

WHAT!!!!! Nobody told me that...... JESUS shoot the ****kker

bowtown
01-09-2011, 09:45 PM
Does that matter? All these soulless weasels deserve our scorn.

They are business men that run a business that tries to bring in the biggest profit it can. If you don't like it, stop giving them your money and attention. I will tell you this, I live in NY and if you think Mile High is bad you should see the gut job done by the Maras.. one of the oldest and most respected ownerships in football.

baja
01-09-2011, 09:46 PM
No, Ellis was also responsible for replacing one of the leaguegs greatest homefield advantages with that over-gentrified monstrocity with that corporate sellout name.

Im a little surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

Damn! That's true. We gotta get this guy away from the Bronco's


End Thread.

OrangeSe7en
01-09-2011, 09:51 PM
Damn! That's true. We gotta get this guy away from the Bronco's


End Thread.

Its a big deal. Elway himself mentioned HFA in his introductory press conference. They want to have it both ways. Elway's complaining about choices Joe Ellis made and, yes, it is a big deal.

Killericon
01-09-2011, 09:53 PM
Well I'm not 100% sure that he does, I was thinking the worse case scenario, 1 out of 3 votes can not empower him to make that choice again.

Yeah, where did this myth come from? He's worked for the Broncos for how long? I'm sure that even by osmosis he knows more about football than any of us.

bowtown
01-09-2011, 09:55 PM
Yeah, where did this myth come from? He's worked for the Broncos for how long? I'm sure that even by osmosis he knows more about football than any of us.

I heard he just listens to his ipod during games.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 09:56 PM
They are business men that run a business that tries to bring in the biggest profit it can. If you don't like it, stop giving them your money and attention. I will tell you this, I live in NY and if you think Mile High is bad you should see the gut job done by the Maras.. one of the oldest and most respected ownerships in football.

This is the problem with profit-only capitalism. It amazes me that so many think that that's the way it should be. By the way, that stadium was publicly funded. The corporate naming of it was a complete disservice to the fans that had made it happen.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 09:57 PM
Yeah, where did this myth come from? He's worked for the Broncos for how long? I'm sure that even by osmosis he knows more about football than any of us.

LULZ Hilarious!

Garcia Bronco
01-09-2011, 09:58 PM
Facts please.

fact: We require a weekly sacriface.

bowtown
01-09-2011, 10:04 PM
This is the problem with profit-only capitalism. It amazes me that so many think that that's the way it should be. By the way, that stadium was publicly funded. The corporate naming of it was a complete disservice to the fans that had made it happen.

Agree. You should vote accordingly if it bothers you that much, and definitely stop giving them your money, but now we are in WRP territory.

baja
01-09-2011, 10:04 PM
Its a big deal. Elway himself mentioned HFA in his introductory press conference. They want to have it both ways. Elway's complaining about choices Joe Ellis made and, yes, it is a big deal.

Dude I'm agreeing with you, I wasn't being sarcistic. I realize times are such that Bowlen was forced to do that in order to stay competitive but now that the deed is done maybe we don't need him anymore.

Boy o boy Elway is going to hate this guy (maybe)

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-09-2011, 10:05 PM
No football background.

Newspaper man.

No other connection to the franchise except that he's Bowlen's drinking buddy.

tubbs
01-09-2011, 10:06 PM
He is a spin Dr

OrangeSe7en
01-09-2011, 10:09 PM
He is a spin Dr

Oh yeah, it's likely he was the one who thought the team should be coached to not act happy for Brandon Marshall when he won his court case. The reason this makes sense is that Joe Ellis blamed it on some vague underling, which isnt even semi believeabel. On top of that, Joe Ellis rarely talks to the media and he did in this instance almost as if it was his mess to clean up.

baja
01-09-2011, 10:10 PM
This is the problem with profit-only capitalism. It amazes me that so many think that that's the way it should be. By the way, that stadium was publicly funded. <b> The corporate naming of it was a complete disservice to the fans that had made it happen.

I still have not accepted that. They should have opted to dare to be different.

Retaining the name Mile High would have been a smarter if not profitable decision.

That was the beginning of the disenfranchising of the fan base.

bowtown
01-09-2011, 10:14 PM
That was the beginning of the disenfranchising of the fan base.

What does that even mean? I'm still number 13,000 on the season ticket waiting list.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 10:17 PM
What does that even mean? I'm still number 13,000 on the season ticket waiting list.

A lot of season ticket holders have taken to the practice of selling their tickets rather than going to the games. The team's sell-out streak has become a bit of a farce.

bowtown
01-09-2011, 10:20 PM
A lot of season ticket holders have taken to the practice of selling their tickets rather than going to the games. The team's sell-out streak has become a bit of a farce.

Well who's fault is that? The team or the people sitting on their tickets and selling them when there is a huge waiting list of fans that want the tickets and want to go to the games?

schaaf
01-09-2011, 10:22 PM
I think I am "shortly" after you Bowtown, I would love to have have season tickets and every time I hear that the stadium attendance is down I feel disgusted.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 10:22 PM
Well who's fault is that? The team or the people sitting on their tickets and selling them when there is a huge waiting list of fans that want the tickets and want to go to the games?

Wasn't my point. Broncos season tickets are a commodity in Denver. It doesn't have all that much to do with fan fervor.

bowtown
01-09-2011, 10:24 PM
Wasn't my point. Broncos season tickets are a commodity in Denver. It doesn't have all that much to do with fan fervor.

LOL. Gotcha. Demand no longer has anything to do with demand. Makes perfect sense.

baja
01-09-2011, 10:25 PM
What does that even mean? I'm still number 13,000 on the season ticket waiting list.

I'm just saying it was the first sign post of a trend. Popularity for the Broncos has been slipping or haven't you heard?

bowtown
01-09-2011, 10:28 PM
I'm just saying it was the first sign post of a trend. Popularity for the Broncos has been slipping or haven't you heard?

That's what happens when you don't go to the playoffs for 5 years and then have a 4 game winning season. Has much more to do with that than anything else.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 10:32 PM
LOL. Gotcha. Demand no longer has anything to do with demand. Makes perfect sense.

Gotcha? No, I don't think so.

My point is that Broncos tickets have taken on a value of their own outside the demand created by Broncos fans. Go to a game and tell me this isn't true. How many fans of opposing teams are there? How many people that don't really seem to care about the Broncos? Have you ever been told to sit down during a game because some half-interested "fan" would rather sit and eat than cheer the team at a crucial moment? I have. For a team with such a long-standing sell-out streak there is little fan fervor to be found in the stadium on gameday.

baja
01-09-2011, 10:35 PM
That's what happens when you don't go to the playoffs for 5 years and then have a 4 game winning season. Has much more to do with that than anything else.

I didn't say it was an "O My God the building fell down" event just the beginning of an attitude shift away from rabid passion.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 10:38 PM
I didn't say it was an "O My God the building fell down" event just the beginning of an attitude shift away from rabid passion.

The tearing down of the old Mile High was the beginning of the shift away from that from what I can tell. Everything changed after that, with the fans and the team, and none of it for the better. This franchise has been in steady decline ever since then...

listopencil
01-09-2011, 10:47 PM
So does anyone have anything at all indicating that McD was an Ellis hire and not a Bowlen **** up? Link? Anyone?

listopencil
01-09-2011, 10:53 PM
Look, I know you guys want to blame Ellis. You guys are full of ****. There is one distinct action, one moment in time, that began our downfall. A sin was committed by one of our own. The Football Gods took notice and punished our entire organization. I only hope that one day they deem us worthy again. What was that horrible act?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Atwater



Atwater left the Broncos following the 1998 season, signing with the New York Jets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Jets) as a free agent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_agent) for his final season in 1999. In his book Think like a Champion,<sup class="Template-Fact" title="This claim needs references to reliable sources from November 2008" style="white-space: nowrap;">[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]</sup> coach Mike Shanahan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Shanahan) wrote about Atwater's departure:
"The toughest decision I've ever had to make as a head coach happened a mere two weeks after we beat the Atlanta Falcons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Falcons) in the Super Bowl. We were getting ready to leave for the annual college scouting combine in Indianapolis...when our eight-time Pro Bowl safety and defensive captain Steve Atwater dropped by our training complex. He visited our defensive coordinator, Greg Robinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Robinson), and defensive back coach, Ed Donatell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Donatell), inquiring about his future. Steve was smart enough to know that we were scheduled to pay him $3 million in 1999 and that we were pressed up against the NFL-imposed salary cap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_cap)...He asked Greg and Ed 'Am I going to be here? What's my status for next year?'

"In all honesty, our initial plan was to wait until March 1st, when we would have asked Steve to take a salary reduction to give us more flexibility under the salary cap...but the more I thought about it, and the more I agonized over it, the more I realized that...it could not wait, not when Steve had brought the issue to a head... It would have been so simple to temporarily sweep the problem underneath the rug. It certainly would have made things easier on me and the organization for a while. But that would not have been fair to Steve. So, in what was the most difficult decision I've had to make...I decided to cut Steve.

"...the decision was best for all parties. We saved money we needed, Steve had a chance to shop himself as an unrestricted free agent, and he wound up signing a three-year, $8.2 million contract with the New York Jets. Is it easy picturing Steve in green and white...? No. Was it the right thing for him and our team? Absolutely."




I blame Shanahan.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 10:53 PM
So does anyone have anything at all indicating that McD was an Ellis hire and not a Bowlen **** up? Link? Anyone?

The official story is that it was decision made between the two of them. We're never going to know for a fact one way or the other.

Agamemnon
01-09-2011, 10:57 PM
Look, I know you guys want to blame Ellis. You guys are full of ****. There is one distinct action, one moment in time, that began our downfall. A sin was committed by one of our own. The Football Gods took notice and punished our entire organization. I only hope that one day they deem us worthy again. What was that horrible act?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Atwater



Atwater left the Broncos following the 1998 season, signing with the New York Jets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Jets) as a free agent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_agent) for his final season in 1999. In his book Think like a Champion,<sup class="Template-Fact" title="This claim needs references to reliable sources from November 2008" style="white-space: nowrap;">[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]</sup> coach Mike Shanahan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Shanahan) wrote about Atwater's departure:
"The toughest decision I've ever had to make as a head coach happened a mere two weeks after we beat the Atlanta Falcons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Falcons) in the Super Bowl. We were getting ready to leave for the annual college scouting combine in Indianapolis...when our eight-time Pro Bowl safety and defensive captain Steve Atwater dropped by our training complex. He visited our defensive coordinator, Greg Robinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Robinson), and defensive back coach, Ed Donatell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Donatell), inquiring about his future. Steve was smart enough to know that we were scheduled to pay him $3 million in 1999 and that we were pressed up against the NFL-imposed salary cap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_cap)...He asked Greg and Ed 'Am I going to be here? What's my status for next year?'

"In all honesty, our initial plan was to wait until March 1st, when we would have asked Steve to take a salary reduction to give us more flexibility under the salary cap...but the more I thought about it, and the more I agonized over it, the more I realized that...it could not wait, not when Steve had brought the issue to a head... It would have been so simple to temporarily sweep the problem underneath the rug. It certainly would have made things easier on me and the organization for a while. But that would not have been fair to Steve. So, in what was the most difficult decision I've had to make...I decided to cut Steve.

"...the decision was best for all parties. We saved money we needed, Steve had a chance to shop himself as an unrestricted free agent, and he wound up signing a three-year, $8.2 million contract with the New York Jets. Is it easy picturing Steve in green and white...? No. Was it the right thing for him and our team? Absolutely."




I blame Shanahan.

Oh boy. Talk about bringing up a sore topic. This is when I started doubting Shanny. I was so pissed after that move. I still am. Atwater should've never played for anyone else...

Hamrob
01-10-2011, 08:17 AM
What's interesting to me...is that Ellis hasn't taken more heat. I mean, the guy is a Marketing Executive...not a football man. Does anyone know what his backgroound is?

So, here's a guy who didn't cut his teeth in the NFL, who straps his horse to McD which fails miserably and he's seldom spoken of in the media. But, John Elway is hired (underneath Ellis) and the guy is openly criticized by the entire NFL.

I'll tell you what, I have 100x the confidence in John Elway...as I do in Ellis. Who the hell is he anyway???

Hamrob
01-10-2011, 08:19 AM
So does anyone have anything at all indicating that McD was an Ellis hire and not a Bowlen **** up? Link? Anyone?I don't have time to do the homework...I think it was both Bowlen and Ellis that made the trips to interview candidates last go round. But, I seem to recall that it was Ellis that flew back out to meet with McD and then soon after seal the deal.

baja
01-10-2011, 08:22 AM
What's interesting to me...is that Ellis hasn't taken more heat. I mean, the guy is a Marketing Executive...not a football man. Does anyone know what his backgroound is?

So, here's a guy who didn't cut his teeth in the NFL, who straps his horse to McD which fails miserably and he's seldom spoken of in the media. But, John Elway is hired (underneath Ellis) and the guy is openly criticized by the entire NFL.

I'll tell you what, I have 100x the confidence in John Elway...as I do in Ellis. Who the hell is he anyway???

There is not much about him on the Internet.

Que
01-10-2011, 08:30 AM
I have nothing good to say about Ellis. The closest thing is that he managed to keep his puke in his mouth when introducing Elway the other day. Seriously, name one good thing he's done.

That being said, I don't have much bad to say about him other than he hired McD (which wasn't a bad choice in my book) and gave him total control of the kingdom with little or no adult supervision (capital offense in my book).

So, in my opinion, he deserves to be run out of town. Nothing going for him and was the guy at the controls when they decided to let a chimpanzee fly the plane. The plane went down in flames. Fire his ass.

bloodsunday
01-10-2011, 08:41 AM
It's hard to say what's going on at Dove Valley these days (who's actually calling the shots). But I will say that Bowlen and Ellis collectively botched the McDaniels situation HORRENDOUSLY. It didn't have to end like this.

The Steelers provided us a beautiful blue print on how to deal with a young, rookie head coach. And instead we gave him full control, allowing him to get in over his head. Here are some notable things I don't think he should have been allowed to do:
1) Have a public divorce with Cutler (yes some of this is on Cutler)
2) Fire Jeremy Bates
3) Fire Mike Nolan
4) Have total say in personnel moves (see Peyton Hillis)
5) Act as the offensive and defensive coordinator and the head coach

They should have let him perform one role only (head coach) and once he proved he could handle that role, then consider giving him more responsibility.

Now we are in a bind, particularly if we decide to switch back to the 4 - 3. Your best defensive player (Dumervil) plays best in a 3 - 4.

Kaylore
01-10-2011, 09:02 AM
The reason people hate Ellis is because they think he is solely responsible for firing Shanahan and hiring McDaniels. They also believe he is manipulating Bowlen. They unfairly assume that Bowlen is completely guiltless and all bad decisions are because of Ellis, and all good ones are because of Bowlen.

Bowlen is the one who gave McDaniels the final say on everything. It wasn't initially set up that way. Ellis has been pushing for a GM with separate power over personnel.

I get that a lot of people loved Shanahan and so hate that he influenced that decision. However, I'm not ready to vilify Ellis as some evil person. I think he and Bowlen are genuinely trying to make the team competitive again. I also think Ellis is trying to show Bowlen that the "Coach does all model" of the 80's and 90's doesn't work anymore.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-10-2011, 09:07 AM
I still have not accepted that. They should have opted to dare to be different.

Retaining the name Mile High would have been a smarter if not profitable decision.

That was the beginning of the disenfranchising of the fan base.


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:cJ4xRX_1aK5XgM:http://coloradosportsdesk.com/wp/wp-content/still_mile_high1.jpeg&t=1

Kaylore
01-10-2011, 09:21 AM
And for the record, Bowlen, Ellis and Xanders all liked hiring McDaniels. Saying "there is no proof that it wasn't all Ellis so it could be" is a fallacious argument. It's like saying "you can't prove an Alien didn't control the president so he could have." Bowlen interviewed McDaniels and said he was excited about the hire.

Kaylore
01-10-2011, 09:22 AM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:cJ4xRX_1aK5XgM:http://coloradosportsdesk.com/wp/wp-content/still_mile_high1.jpeg&t=1

I don't. That stadium isn't Mile High. It will never be Hile High.

Rohirrim
01-10-2011, 09:29 AM
Fortunately, since Ellis is a Bush family member, once he bankrupts the Broncos, some sheikh in Bahrain will bail us out. So, keep a good thought. ;D

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-10-2011, 09:35 AM
I don't. That stadium isn't Mile High. It will never be Hile High.

it could be again if folks weren't in such a hurry to be overwhelmingly, suffocatingly negative all the time.

Chris
01-10-2011, 09:35 AM
Because he took very little responsibility. Because we don't know a lot about him and we need someone to blame that we're not partial to loving. Because he appeared out of nowhere.

Because he looks smug and evil.

misturanderson
01-10-2011, 09:54 AM
it could be again if folks weren't in such a hurry to be overwhelmingly, suffocatingly negative all the time.

There is a lot of truth in that statement.

Steve Sewell
01-10-2011, 10:01 AM
A lot of season ticket holders have taken to the practice of selling their tickets rather than going to the games. The team's sell-out streak has become a bit of a farce.

People sell their tickets because they have to. For the average joe fan, maintaining season tickets is very cost prohibitive.

NFL teams are continuing to alienate their fan base. I'm sure their business model indicates that this is the way to go, but it may come back to bite them in the ass.

Kaylore
01-10-2011, 10:10 AM
it could be again if folks weren't in such a hurry to be overwhelmingly, suffocatingly negative all the time.

I don't hate invesco. It's a very nice stadium and looks cool. I just don't want to call it Mile High Stadium.

1. It's not Mile High Stadium. Mile High was old, rickety, loud, had character and fun. The new stadium is fun, but not as fun and certainly not old or nearly as loud.

2. It's not Mile Stadium. That's not what it's called. It's Invesco field. I wouldn't mind a name change. I suppose if we named it new Mile High, I could go along. But you can bet I would say "new" every time I mention the stadium. And until they change the name, I'm calling it Invesco.

Hamrob
01-10-2011, 10:31 AM
I think with the information that we have been provided about Ellis, we have to assume he was hired to run/improve the Business. That's great. He might be doing an effective job at that...which is why he's now President. But, he wasn't and still isn't a football guy. Meaning he had no business running the football end of things (if he was). I also think we have to assume that Bowlen is the one who gave McD full control of the football end of things...because that's how both Shanny and Reaves had it and what Bowlen was used to.

However, I do seem to recall that it was Ellis who pushed Bowlen to fire Shanahan. Now, I won't argue whether firing Shanny was the right move or not the right move...but, not having a system in place to move forward with out Shanny...well, I put that on Ellis.

Why? Because if you want to change things so bad...that you lobby to make a change...and then you do...and that change fails...well that's on you buddy!!

Killericon
01-10-2011, 10:37 AM
In this thread: Yeah! The Broncos should charge way less for seats! **** Joe Ellis for hiking ticket prices and alienating fans!

In another thread: Bowlen should cough up that change to pay Champ! He's one of the best players in Franchise History!

In yet another thread: Let's go after Nnamdi Asomugha! It'd be great having him and Peterson on the Corners with Champ as the FS!

In still another thread: Pay Brandon Lloyd! He's earned it!

In STILL another thread: Bowlen is so cheap, no wonder he's going after the cheap head coach candidates! He should back up a Brinks truck and get Cowher or Gruden!

I think with the information that we have been provided about Ellis, we have to assume he was hired to run/improve the Business. That's great. He might be doing an effective job at that...which is why he's now President. But, he wasn't and still isn't a football guy. Meaning he had no business running the football end of things (if he was). I also think we have to assume that Bowlen is the one who gave McD full control of the football end of things...because that's how both Shanny and Reaves had it and what Bowlen was used to.

So, just to be clear, you're upset that he doesn't know anything about football, which led to him handing over all football decisions to someone who does?

Drek
01-10-2011, 10:44 AM
Facts please.

He sold Bowlen on Shanahan having too much power in the organization, then hired McDaniels, fired the Goodmans, "promoted" Xanders, and gave McDaniels almost all the power Shanahan had.

Firing Shanahan wasn't a bad move but when you identified his unilateral control of all things football as the problem you don't hire a less experienced, less qualified coach and give him unilateral control.

Then when he "cleans up" his mistake by firing McDaniels, citing the same problems we had with Shanahan, he and Xanders play the "all the good moves were ours, all the bad moves were Josh" blame game in the local media.

Not so hard to know why he isn't very appreciated around here.

colonelbeef
01-10-2011, 01:19 PM
Lol, you continue to demonstrate zero awareness of the Broncos and the current state of affairs therein

Kaylore
01-10-2011, 01:38 PM
He sold Bowlen on Shanahan having too much power in the organization, then hired McDaniels, fired the Goodmans, "promoted" Xanders, and gave McDaniels almost all the power Shanahan had.

Firing Shanahan wasn't a bad move but when you identified his unilateral control of all things football as the problem you don't hire a less experienced, less qualified coach and give him unilateral control.

Then when he "cleans up" his mistake by firing McDaniels, citing the same problems we had with Shanahan, he and Xanders play the "all the good moves were ours, all the bad moves were Josh" blame game in the local media.

Not so hard to know why he isn't very appreciated around here.

Sorry, it was Bowlen, not Ellis, who gave McD carte blanche.

tubbs
01-10-2011, 03:06 PM
Sorry, it was Bowlen, not Ellis, who gave McD carte blanche.

You assume Bowlen still has his marbles.