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View Full Version : Would you have hired any of these guys as your teams's HC? Some perspective on coaches.


bronco0608
01-07-2011, 08:21 PM
A story of four coaches:

His first defense in Minnesota ranked eighth overall -- No. 1 in the league against the run but tied for last against the pass as the Vikings went 6-10. before he was hired as the head coach of.......

Would it make sense to hire a guy like that? Mike Tomlin

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The Jaguars finished 12th in total defense in 2007. Who coached the defense? Mike Smith
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Or how about a special teams coached who coached the secondary BEFORE coming head coach?

He spent this season as Philadelphia's secondary coach after making a name for himself working with special teams. He has never been a head coach!

John Harbaugh

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How about a guy who had never been a head coach before and had a grand total of two games as a defensive coordinator before being named head coach: Raheem Morris

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So as you can see, what in the heck do we know? If it was up to fans, great coaches like Raheem Morris, Mike Tomlin, Mike Smith, and John Harbaugh would have never become coaches in this league. Half of those guys weren't even successful coordinators before coming coaches.

The coach search will be interesting, to say the least. But I'm not going to automatically think a coach sucks if I haven't heard of him before.

You think the Ravens were doing backflips when they hired the secondary coach of Philly? No. But that is why you interview guys. Sometimes, all you need is a chance.

DarkHorse
01-07-2011, 08:24 PM
That doesn't make the offseason fun for us fans tho - if we can't debate our great knowledge then bleh, i'll have to watch golf :giggle:

Dagmar
01-07-2011, 08:25 PM
Yeah? So's your face.

Requiem
01-07-2011, 08:26 PM
Omar Epps is a great football coach.

bronco0608
01-07-2011, 08:30 PM
Yeah? So's your face.

http://www.plateoftheday.com/food_blog/nightTrainNThunderbird.gif




On a friday night? That ain't right.

frerottenextelway
01-07-2011, 08:32 PM
I would fire everyone, move the team to Luxemburg, then name Beezer head coach.

Reestablish HFA by having opposing teams have jet lag.

Dagmar
01-07-2011, 08:33 PM
http://www.plateoftheday.com/food_blog/nightTrainNThunderbird.gif




On a friday night? That ain't right.

Not sure what I am looking at here...

listopencil
01-07-2011, 08:34 PM
I prefer this, goes nicely on a Winter night w/ hot chocolate:

http://www.upb.cz/imageResize/index/rum-sailor-jerry1.jpg

Dagmar
01-07-2011, 08:34 PM
I would fire everyone, move the team to Luxemburg, then name Beezer head coach.

Reestablish HFA by having opposing teams have jet lag.

We'd need an interim, Beezer qould have to deal with quarantine.

Agamemnon
01-07-2011, 08:46 PM
A story of four coaches:

His first defense in Minnesota ranked eighth overall -- No. 1 in the league against the run but tied for last against the pass as the Vikings went 6-10. before he was hired as the head coach of.......

Would it make sense to hire a guy like that? Mike Tomlin

-------

The Jaguars finished 12th in total defense in 2007. Who coached the defense? Mike Smith
-------

Or how about a special teams coached who coached the secondary BEFORE coming head coach?

He spent this season as Philadelphia's secondary coach after making a name for himself working with special teams. He has never been a head coach!

John Harbaugh

---------------------------------------

How about a guy who had never been a head coach before and had a grand total of two games as a defensive coordinator before being named head coach: Raheem Morris

-----------------------------------

So as you can see, what in the heck do we know? If it was up to fans, great coaches like Raheem Morris, Mike Tomlin, Mike Smith, and John Harbaugh would have never become coaches in this league. Half of those guys weren't even successful coordinators before coming coaches.

The coach search will be interesting, to say the least. But I'm not going to automatically think a coach sucks if I haven't heard of him before.

You think the Ravens were doing backflips when they hired the secondary coach of Philly? No. But that is why you interview guys. Sometimes, all you need is a chance.

Seems we should just go with Studs and be done with it then. ;)

That One Guy
01-08-2011, 06:42 AM
For the case of Pitt and Balt, none of the changes they've made over the last 10 years have made a difference. Tomlin just took the reigns after Cowher hung it up. Balt was still the same team which had lead the league in D for so many years. TB was 10th overall D in 2008 and were 9th this year. TBs O was 18th in 2008 and 20th this year. So the team is just now getting back to as good as they were before he took over and they missed the playoffs.

ATL you could make an argument for but they were a winning franchise in the Vick days and between Vick's arrest, Mora's running off, then Petrino's running off... they can hardly be judged as their overall talent levels. They just had too many distractions.

The only thing Balt, ATL, and TB have added that they didn't have before is better QB play. Would you really attribute that to their HCs?

misturanderson
01-08-2011, 09:14 AM
For the case of Pitt and Balt, none of the changes they've made over the last 10 years have made a difference. Tomlin just took the reigns after Cowher hung it up. Balt was still the same team which had lead the league in D for so many years. TB was 10th overall D in 2008 and were 9th this year. TBs O was 18th in 2008 and 20th this year. So the team is just now getting back to as good as they were before he took over and they missed the playoffs.

ATL you could make an argument for but they were a winning franchise in the Vick days and between Vick's arrest, Mora's running off, then Petrino's running off... they can hardly be judged as their overall talent levels. They just had too many distractions.

The only thing Balt, ATL, and TB have added that they didn't have before is better QB play. Would you really attribute that to their HCs?

This is where I'm at.

Smith is the only one of those guys that didn't take over a winning program that has proven himself to be a worthwhile hire. It also would have been hard not to improve the mess that he was left with, but he has continued the improvement to the point that I would love for a clone of him to be our coach.

Morris has led a decent turnaround over 2 years, but has far from proven himself to be a great HC. He still hasn't made the playoffs (though his division is pretty damn hard).

Tomlin and Harbaugh took over winners and continued what was working while changing very little. They are also supported by some of the best personnel departments and coaching staffs in the league. I'm not sure how many changes Harbaugh had to make to his coaching staff, but Tomlin didn't do anything of note except take over a well-oiled machine and keep it running.

TonyR
01-08-2011, 09:18 AM
Smith has done a great job in Atlanta but they also have a superb front office. That's where it all starts, at the top, and Denver doesn't appear to have figured that part out yet. Maybe Elway/Xanders will surprise but I'm more than a little concerned.

CEH
01-08-2011, 09:24 AM
Smith has done a great job in Atlanta but they also have a superb front office. That's where it all starts, at the top, and Denver doesn't appear to have figured that part out yet. Maybe Elway/Xanders will surprise but I'm more than a little concerned.

Get the GMs from NE not the coaches. The coaches are failures. The GMs are the guys in BB inner circle figuring out what works and what doesn't

KC hit a homerun last draft . Built a nice core of young talented playmakers

Oh well

cutthemdown
01-08-2011, 09:24 AM
We are ****ed

errand
01-08-2011, 09:47 AM
One thing that they all have in common is a defense that doesn't give opposing QB's 10 seconds to throw the ball, and creates a turnover or two to keep the game from becoming a bloodletting....

footstepsfrom#27
01-08-2011, 10:09 AM
A story of four coaches:

His first defense in Minnesota ranked eighth overall -- No. 1 in the league against the run but tied for last against the pass as the Vikings went 6-10. before he was hired as the head coach of.......

Would it make sense to hire a guy like that? Mike Tomlin

-------

The Jaguars finished 12th in total defense in 2007. Who coached the defense? Mike Smith
-------

Or how about a special teams coached who coached the secondary BEFORE coming head coach?

He spent this season as Philadelphia's secondary coach after making a name for himself working with special teams. He has never been a head coach!

John Harbaugh

---------------------------------------

How about a guy who had never been a head coach before and had a grand total of two games as a defensive coordinator before being named head coach: Raheem Morris

-----------------------------------

So as you can see, what in the heck do we know? If it was up to fans, great coaches like Raheem Morris, Mike Tomlin, Mike Smith, and John Harbaugh would have never become coaches in this league. Half of those guys weren't even successful coordinators before coming coaches.

The coach search will be interesting, to say the least. But I'm not going to automatically think a coach sucks if I haven't heard of him before.

You think the Ravens were doing backflips when they hired the secondary coach of Philly? No. But that is why you interview guys. Sometimes, all you need is a chance.
Great post...I've been thinking about the same things. It's because 99% of fans won't take any time to do anything except look at the won-lost record or something else that offers an immediate answer. Obviously that's a poor way to evaluate coaches, as it's a poor way to do almost anything.

Case in point...I"m about to post a thread on a guy I've been doing a little recon on, Rutgers coach Greg Schiano. He's not a big name, but when you did deeper you come away very impressed. I guarantee you, most posters will respond to this in a knee jerk, negative way immediately...just watch.

Jason in LA
01-08-2011, 10:31 AM
I'd say that it goes to show that head coaches and coordinators are different. Being great at one does not mean that a coach will be great at the other. As it was mentioned a few times, having a good front office is very helpful.

That One Guy
01-08-2011, 10:53 AM
Smith has done a great job in Atlanta but they also have a superb front office. That's where it all starts, at the top, and Denver doesn't appear to have figured that part out yet. Maybe Elway/Xanders will surprise but I'm more than a little concerned.

And as is probably appropriate, Matt Ryan's home record is very often talked about. Give the Falcons an average home record and they fall back into the pack. I would say that HC is #3 in terms of changes that turned the franchise around with the FO and Ryan being #s 1 and 2.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-08-2011, 11:06 AM
All 3 were considered future HCs, the issue was not "if", it was "when" and "where".

Someone like Dirk Freaking Koetter does not fall into the same category.

Spin it however you want, say that everyone under the Sun needs to be interviewed to find the right fit. Fine. But don't try to polish some of these turds, like Koetter, guys who shouldn't even be on everyone under the Sun list.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 12:10 PM
Smith has done a great job in Atlanta but they also have a superb front office. That's where it all starts, at the top, and Denver doesn't appear to have figured that part out yet. Maybe Elway/Xanders will surprise but I'm more than a little concerned.

Funny that you congratulate Atlanta's great FO, and then flagellate Xanders who was a key player in building the current Falcons roster.

Cito Pelon
01-08-2011, 12:19 PM
Hiring a leader is a crapshoot. You can take a chance on a former underling (like Dennison, Fewell) and elevate him to the leadership position, or you can grab a proven leader like a John Fox.

TonyR
01-08-2011, 12:37 PM
Funny that you congratulate Atlanta's great FO, and then flagellate Xanders who was a key player in building the current Falcons roster.

Where/when have I "flagellated" Xanders?

elsid13
01-08-2011, 12:41 PM
Funny that you congratulate Atlanta's great FO, and then flagellate Xanders who was a key player in building the current Falcons roster.

When is the guy running the cap, overseeing the administrative staff and the IT dept a key player in acquiring talent?

Xanders as Drek has pointed out was middle management that was not in the decision process.