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GoHAM
01-07-2011, 10:21 AM
Looks like Dennison is on the list.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/14521445

Crushaholic
01-07-2011, 10:23 AM
This could be a disaster. DON'T DO IT, BOWLEN. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T DO IT!!!

Chris
01-07-2011, 10:24 AM
**** the ZBS. This looks like a case of the Broncos going with what they know.

The perception that we're unable to come up with fresh ideas is what's scaring away some of the better candidates.

UberBroncoMan
01-07-2011, 10:31 AM
Well...he fits the bill of someone who knows what it means to be a Bronco and "connect" with the fans.

He went to High School in Colorado, and played Linebacker for us for NINE YEARS.

That's before he was an assistant here for THIRTEEN YEARS.

Dude's been a Bronco almost his entire professional football life.


Would mean us going back to Broncos football though.

West Coast Offense and ZBS.

serious hops
01-07-2011, 10:32 AM
If we can't get him, maybe Steve Watson is available.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 10:33 AM
i could think of worse candidates...

worm
01-07-2011, 10:34 AM
The perception that we're unable to come up with fresh ideas is what's scaring away some of the better candidates.

link? or are you just speaking out of your ass?

Old Dude
01-07-2011, 10:39 AM
Interesting. We could do a lot worse.

Ray Finkle
01-07-2011, 10:42 AM
I'd rather have Fassels, McD, or Wade Phillips....hell, I'd rather coach them myself.

meangene
01-07-2011, 10:45 AM
I never got the fascination with Dennison. I thought he absolutely SUCKED as special teams coach, rode Gibbs coattails with the OL and then schmoozed down to Houston with Kubiak and became OC of an already talented offense which was basically Kube's offense. This would be as bad as Fossil - almost.

Ray Finkle
01-07-2011, 10:47 AM
I never got the fascination with Dennison. I thought he absolutely SUCKED as special teams coach, rode Gibbs coattails with the OL and then schmoozed down to Houston with Kubiak and became OC of an already talented offense which was basically Kube's offense. This would be as bad as Fossil - almost.

I agree....

ZONA
01-07-2011, 10:48 AM
I never got the fascination with Dennison. I thought he absolutely SUCKED as special teams coach, rode Gibbs coattails with the OL and then schmoozed down to Houston with Kubiak and became OC of an already talented offense which was basically Kube's offense. This would be as bad as Fossil - almost.

this

Chris
01-07-2011, 10:53 AM
link? or are you just speaking out of your ass?

I'm basing this off of 1) what's apparent to me (yes, it's my opinion) and 2) lombardi's piece 2 weeks ago. I'll find a link if you want.

Crushaholic
01-07-2011, 10:54 AM
I wouldn't want to see us go back to the zone blocking system. We need to push people off the line, in order for Tebow to do his thing...

Dedhed
01-07-2011, 10:54 AM
I never got the fascination with Dennison. I thought he absolutely SUCKED as special teams coach, rode Gibbs coattails with the OL and then schmoozed down to Houston with Kubiak and became OC of an already talented offense which was basically Kube's offense. This would be as bad as Fossil - almost.

I agree completely, except I think he would be worse than Fassel. Fassel would at least be a positive in Tebow's development. I don't see Dennison having that ability at all.

razorwire77
01-07-2011, 10:54 AM
I never got the fascination with Dennison. I thought he absolutely SUCKED as special teams coach, rode Gibbs coattails with the OL and then schmoozed down to Houston with Kubiak and became OC of an already talented offense which was basically Kube's offense. This would be as bad as Fossil - almost.

x 2

When he was our special teams coach we sucked ass to the point where if he didn't have unique ties to the team he probably would have been fired. He has done next to nothing to warrant serious consideration for HC.

meangene
01-07-2011, 10:56 AM
I agree completely, except I think he would be worse than Fassel. Fassel would at least be a positive in Tebow's development. I don't see Dennison having that ability at all.

Come to think of it, you may be right. Worse than Fossil.

TonyR
01-07-2011, 10:59 AM
I never got the fascination with Dennison. I thought he absolutely SUCKED as special teams coach, rode Gibbs coattails with the OL and then schmoozed down to Houston with Kubiak and became OC of an already talented offense which was basically Kube's offense. This would be as bad as Fossil - almost.

It's funny, I remember constant calls for his firing while he was the ST coach. But now we want him as our head coach. Sadly I fear we may have to take what we can get at this point.

jbones733
01-07-2011, 11:03 AM
Broncos are turning into a total inept and disaster of a franschise

Popps
01-07-2011, 11:03 AM
Definitely worse than Fassel. Fassel took a team to a SB and a couple other teams to the playoffs. I mean, he's not my first choice... but I'd take him over Dennison.

Popps
01-07-2011, 11:04 AM
Broncos are turning into a total inept and disaster of a franschise

Yea, it sucks being the first pro sports franchise to ever have a down year, or go through a rebuilding process.

Rulon Velvet Jones
01-07-2011, 11:05 AM
Broncos are turning into a total inept and disaster of a franschise

MegaLurker.

DenverBroncosJM
01-07-2011, 11:07 AM
I would rather have Stud instead of Dennison

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 11:08 AM
Broncos are turning into a total inept and disaster of a franschise

11 posts since 04....

epic...

bowtown
01-07-2011, 11:35 AM
Dennison would have been a decent choice after firing Shanahan. We had a lot of pieces in place. He could have kept most of the offense in tact, running the same system and found a good DC. We are past that now tough. This is a different team, a team in shambles. I don't think Dennison is the right guy, with the right system, or experience to come in and put it back together again.

DrFate
01-07-2011, 11:37 AM
I would like to understand that hatred for the ZBS. You take a system where the Broncos are always among the leaders in rushing yards and replace it with a system where the Broncos are near the bottom of the league in rushing yards. I don't understand why that's an improvement.

Play action depends on an actual threat of a running game. And right now, the Broncos have none.

strafen
01-07-2011, 11:40 AM
I would like to understand that hatred for the ZBS. You take a system where the Broncos are always among the leaders in rushing yards and replace it with a system where the Broncos are near the bottom of the league in rushing yards. I don't understand why that's an improvement.

Play action depends on an actual threat of a running game. And right now, the Broncos have none.People here believe that the NE (PBS) is the way to go.
We've had success with the ZBS. To have Dennison aboard is a big plus for our team.
He's perhaps the best candidate after Harbaugh to be our next HC...

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2011, 11:41 AM
Play action depends on an actual threat of a running game.

The 2010 Denver Broncos blew this theory completely out of the water. Did a single play action play they ran all season get stopped? It was unreal. It got to the point that you just knew what the announcers were going to say after each and every time the Broncos ran one. It was going to be some variation of "how on Earth does a team that has no threat of a running game fool the defense with that play action?"

Gutless Drunk
01-07-2011, 11:44 AM
FWIW... The other day Alfred Williams & Stink said that the offensive line we have today can't run the power. Al said none of them can power block, not even Clady and Stink agreed

DrFate
01-07-2011, 11:44 AM
People here believe that the NE (PBS) is the way to go.
We've had success with the ZBS.

The funny thing is, I don't see the Patriots really run the ball at all. Power, zone, or otherwise. Brady throws it to 10 different members of the Lollipop Guild, and some guy like BenJarvis Green-Ellis runs out the clock. They don't really have an overpowering run game. They have a HOF quarterback.

How can you emulate that without the guy under center?

DrFate
01-07-2011, 11:46 AM
The 2010 Denver Broncos blew this theory completely out of the water. Did a single play action play they ran all season get stopped? It was unreal. It got to the point that you just knew what the announcers were going to say after each and every time the Broncos ran one. It was going to be some variation of "how on Earth does a team that has no threat of a running game fool the defense with that play action?"

Assuming your premise is true, I have to question why this team didn't go 16-0. Bad play calling? :)

You replace a successful run system with an unsuccessful one, yet a lot of posters on this board refuse to consider a return to the former.

Mile High Shack
01-07-2011, 11:52 AM
go ahead and hit it, you know you want to

http://www.ecosalon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/panic.jpg

maybe he's better at managing a whole team rather than a specific unit, maybe he'll have assistants who are worth a damn

we just don't know, it's like watching a trailer saying, oh man, that movie sucks, I just know it

Homer Simpson
01-07-2011, 11:54 AM
This could be a disaster. DON'T DO IT, BOWLEN. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T DO IT!!!

This
This
This.

Dukes
01-07-2011, 11:55 AM
go ahead and hit it, you know you want to

http://www.ecosalon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/panic.jpg

maybe he's better at managing a whole team rather than a specific unit, maybe he'll have assistants who are worth a damn

we just don't know, it's like watching a trailer saying, oh man, that movie sucks, I just know it

Dennison have proved little in his ability to run an entire team, let alone a single unit. This has fail written all over it.

Mile High Shack
01-07-2011, 11:57 AM
Dennison have proved little in his ability to run an entire team, let alone a single unit. This has fail written all over it.

I seem to remember a lot of people quite upset we let him go to Houston

baja
01-07-2011, 12:03 PM
FWIW... The other day Alfred Williams & Stink said that the offensive line we have today can't run the power. Al said none of them can power block, not even Clady and Stink agreed

If this is true wouldn't it be a fools move to let Harris walk especially without knowing know your head coach is yet?

bloodsunday
01-07-2011, 12:05 PM
Why are the football gods punishing us?

Cito Pelon
01-07-2011, 12:07 PM
The question about Dennison is can he bring in the assistant staff to make him a good HC? That's the big deal.

Any former OC or DC that is hired faces the same problem - can they pick the correct assistants.

I like Dennison because he's a Bronco guy from player through coach. If they hire him that's fine with me. At least he's been around the NFL for a long time as a player and coach.

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2011, 12:10 PM
If this is true wouldn't it be a fools move to let Harris walk especially without knowing know your head coach is yet?

The new coach will be hired before Harris becomes a FA, unless you think we're not going to hire anyone in the next 2+ months (which I wouldn't put past this friggen joke of a front office).

TonyR
01-07-2011, 12:15 PM
The question about Dennison is can he bring in the assistant staff to make him a good HC? That's the big deal.

Yup, and I'd expect any candidate for HC to be asked to put together a proposal for what their coaching staff might look like. With specifics.

Agamemnon
01-07-2011, 12:16 PM
I'd rather just keep Studesville...

bowtown
01-07-2011, 12:22 PM
I'd rather just keep Studesville...

At this point, over Dennison, so would I, and I was always a huge Dennnison supporter.

meangene
01-07-2011, 12:22 PM
Praying Fewell has a great interview! :pray:

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 12:23 PM
Definitely worse than Fassel. Fassel took a team to a SB and a couple other teams to the playoffs. I mean, he's not my first choice... but I'd take him over Dennison.

All those who wanted Kubiak are now flocking to Dennison....which tells one all that's needed to know.

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 12:25 PM
Praying Fewell has a great interview! :pray:

If the front office is stupid enough to pass Rivera by, then so am I

Mile High Shack
01-07-2011, 12:26 PM
I'd rather have everyone else on our list minus Fassel than Dennison, but it's just an interview, when I was job searching, I had a lot of interviews, but I didn't always get the job....c'mon people

ant1999e
01-07-2011, 12:31 PM
I never got the fascination with Dennison. I thought he absolutely SUCKED as special teams coach, rode Gibbs coattails with the OL and then schmoozed down to Houston with Kubiak and became OC of an already talented offense which was basically Kube's offense. This would be as bad as Fossil - almost.

Agree

NFLBRONCO
01-07-2011, 12:32 PM
All those who wanted Kubiak are now flocking to Dennison....which tells one all that's needed to know.

scary

bendog
01-07-2011, 12:33 PM
But he drove the golf cart so well....

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 12:35 PM
scary

It's this psychological need for someone who's got some footing in the Broncos past, which is pretty meaningless to me. I just want the best man for the job, former Bronco or not.

LetsGoBroncos
01-07-2011, 12:43 PM
If I'm crazy tell me....am I the only one who would be happy if we hired Schottenheimer? It doesn't sound like the Broncos are very interested in him but I would be excited to have him as the head coach with a good offensive and defensive coordinator under him. There is something to be said for getting back to the basics of football. Ball control offense, and solid D.

HILife
01-07-2011, 12:44 PM
thank you, but no thank you.

edog24
01-07-2011, 12:45 PM
If I'm crazy tell me....am I the only one who would be happy if we hired Schottenheimer? It doesn't sound like the Broncos are very interested in him but I would be excited to have him as the head coach with a good offensive and defensive coordinator under him. There is something to be said for getting back to the basics of football. Ball control offense, and solid D.

It's starting to look like one of the better options.

bowtown
01-07-2011, 12:46 PM
If I'm crazy tell me....am I the only one who would be happy if we hired Schottenheimer? It doesn't sound like the Broncos are very interested in him but I would be excited to have him as the head coach with a good offensive and defensive coordinator under him. There is something to be said for getting back to the basics of football. Ball control offense, and solid D.

Schottenheimer would never in a million years coach a team under Elway. He still wakes up in cold sweats in the middle of the night becasue of him. I wouldn't be surprised if Marty has a picture of Elway hanging on his dart board.

meangene
01-07-2011, 12:47 PM
If the front office is stupid enough to pass Rivera by, then so am I

Rivera would be my choice as well.

TonyR
01-07-2011, 12:47 PM
If I'm crazy tell me....

Yes, crazy. He's 67 years old and has been out of football for several years. And he's not interested. It's not going to happen. No chance.

SoDak Bronco
01-07-2011, 12:50 PM
Your best guess..Who is head coach of the Broncos nest year?
Adam Schefter (2:49 PM)




A no-nonsense type of guy. Last time Denver liked Steve Spagnuolo, Raheem Morris and Leslie Frazier along with Josh McDaniels. So they had the right idea. I think they're going to get back to someone they know and feel comfortable with. My guess today, subject to change tomorrow, would be Texans offensive coordinator Rick Dennison. But Perry Fewell also would be a superb choice. Too early to

Ray Finkle
01-07-2011, 12:50 PM
If I'm crazy tell me....am I the only one who would be happy if we hired Schottenheimer? It doesn't sound like the Broncos are very interested in him but I would be excited to have him as the head coach with a good offensive and defensive coordinator under him. There is something to be said for getting back to the basics of football. Ball control offense, and solid D.

he doesn't want to coach.....he's said it 1,001 times on his Sirius NFL show.

broncofries
01-07-2011, 12:58 PM
11 posts since 04....

epic...

I can almost top that.. Dang I think that's two. Must resist posting, must lurk.

Anyway, don't like the Dennison idea. Not sure on Fassel, interested in Fewell and Rivera. See you guys in another 5 years.

gunns
01-07-2011, 01:02 PM
I'd rather have Fassels, McD, or Wade Phillips....hell, I'd rather coach them myself

I never got the fascination with Dennison. I thought he absolutely SUCKED as special teams coach, rode Gibbs coattails with the OL and then schmoozed down to Houston with Kubiak and became OC of an already talented offense which was basically Kube's offense. This would be as bad as Fossil - almost.

x 2

When he was our special teams coach we sucked ass to the point where if he didn't have unique ties to the team he probably would have been fired. He has done next to nothing to warrant serious consideration for HC.

Ok, where in the hell were all you guys when Dennison was still here and I was saying the EXACT same things about him and catching mega hell for it?

TonyR
01-07-2011, 01:02 PM
Your best guess..Who is head coach of the Broncos nest year?
Adam Schefter (2:49 PM)


My guess today, subject to change tomorrow, would be Texans offensive coordinator Rick Dennison.

Oh, boy...

Ray Finkle
01-07-2011, 01:03 PM
ok, where in the hell were all you guys when dennison was still here and i was saying the exact same things about him and catching mega hell for it?

:d

gunns
01-07-2011, 01:05 PM
Rivera would be my choice as well.

He's about the only guy that has sparked my interest. Fewell somewhat also.

McDman
01-07-2011, 01:12 PM
Baja just got his first erection in years.

meangene
01-07-2011, 01:30 PM
Your best guess..Who is head coach of the Broncos nest year?
Adam Schefter (2:49 PM)




A no-nonsense type of guy. Last time Denver liked Steve Spagnuolo, Raheem Morris and Leslie Frazier along with Josh McDaniels. So they had the right idea. I think they're going to get back to someone they know and feel comfortable with. My guess today, subject to change tomorrow, would be Texans offensive coordinator Rick Dennison. But Perry Fewell also would be a superb choice. Too early to

That just makes me sad.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 01:34 PM
I can almost top that.. Dang I think that's two. Must resist posting, must lurk.

Anyway, don't like the Dennison idea. Not sure on Fassel, interested in Fewell and Rivera. See you guys in another 5 years.

well your reps per post ratio will be phenominal because you get one from me...

REP

and don't bother replying...get yo lurk on...

cmhargrove
01-07-2011, 01:34 PM
Didn't Romanowski offer to be HC? Let's just go for broke here...

BigPlayShay
01-07-2011, 01:35 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/McClain_on_NFL/status/23492380426506241

@McClain_on_NFL
John McClain: Texans just granted broncos permission to interview OC Rick dennison.

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2011, 01:36 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/McClain_on_NFL/status/23492380426506241

@McClain_on_NFL
John McClain: Texans just granted broncos permission to interview OC Rick dennison.

OMG!!!!!!!! Kubiak is tearing that team apart!!!!!!!!!

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 01:37 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/McClain_on_NFL/status/23492380426506241

@McClain_on_NFL
John McClain: Texans just granted broncos permission to interview OC Rick dennison.

Oh great, Gary Sinise is actually going to interview for the job :unamused:

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 01:37 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/McClain_on_NFL/status/23492380426506241

@McClain_on_NFL
John McClain: Texans just granted broncos permission to interview OC Rick dennison.


i'm okay with this...

i want to bring back zbs...

and i think Big Bow will do well in the WCO...

PRBronco
01-07-2011, 01:40 PM
I can almost top that.. Dang I think that's two. Must resist posting, must lurk.

Anyway, don't like the Dennison idea. Not sure on Fassel, interested in Fewell and Rivera. See you guys in another 5 years.

Reported for spamming.

!Booya!

meangene
01-07-2011, 01:40 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/McClain_on_NFL/status/23492380426506241

@McClain_on_NFL
John McClain: Texans just granted broncos permission to interview OC Rick dennison.

ugh!~

maven
01-07-2011, 01:41 PM
Dennison? Hmmmm, looks like Luck will be our QB next year.

DenverBroncosJM
01-07-2011, 01:47 PM
This is a by product of the elway hiring. One of the worst things the new front office can do is hire a former bronco for HC.

Where do we go from here? Let's say they do hire him and everything goes to he'll for a couple more years. Part of a hiring process is hiring someone you can fire, how the he'll do you fire Elway? First Xanders will go but sooner or later if things don't turn around you have to fire elway the road to that firing starts with Dennison

Man-Goblin
01-07-2011, 01:48 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/McClain_on_NFL/status/23492380426506241

@McClain_on_NFL
John McClain: Texans just granted broncos permission to interview OC Rick dennison.

Sick to my stomach. Really. I would do Marcus Thomas backflips if they contacted John Fox, and Rivera and Morningweg are starting to look like great options.

Screw you John McClain for bringing this news to me. I wish Hanz Gruber offed you in Nakatomi Plaza now.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 01:50 PM
This is a by product of the elway hiring. One of the worst things the new front office can do is hire a former bronco for HC.



one day coaches will be lining up to work under elway...

and it will be too late then...

serious hops
01-07-2011, 01:51 PM
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9806/siskofacepalmn.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/i/siskofacepalmn.jpg/)

mikey555
01-07-2011, 01:53 PM
Why not bill musgrave He a homer too!

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/roster-coaches/bill-musgrave/

maven
01-07-2011, 01:53 PM
Rick Dennison...... New head coach of the Denver Broncos?

loloolollzomgwtfisbsslolololllhahahahahhaaahwthfff fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuufaillllll

Yep, I'm going to sign off and do something else.

bendog
01-07-2011, 01:56 PM
Why not bill musgrave He a homer too!

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/roster-coaches/bill-musgrave/

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LetsGoBroncos
01-07-2011, 01:57 PM
He's old, but what about Dick Labeau?

baja
01-07-2011, 01:58 PM
one day coaches will be lining up to work under elway...

and it will be too late then...

That's the spirit and I think that's a good possibility too. ;D

LetsGoBroncos
01-07-2011, 01:59 PM
He's old, but what about Dick Labeau?

Compared to Dennison I mean

frerottenextelway
01-07-2011, 01:59 PM
He's old, but what about Dick Labeau?

He has his dream job, he ain't leaving.

bendog
01-07-2011, 02:06 PM
Hey, they're already lining up: Fassel and Dennison. (choking sounds)

boppool
01-07-2011, 02:15 PM
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9775/priceisright.jpg

jbones733
01-07-2011, 02:22 PM
What total disaster

Denver drops the ball again

get ready for a decade of futility

worm
01-07-2011, 02:24 PM
This is a by product of the elway hiring. One of the worst things the new front office can do is hire a former bronco for HC.

How is this a byproduct of the Elway hire when Dennison interviewed for the HC job last time around as well? Pre-Elway.

People really need to take in all the facts prior to over-reacting on a 'name'.

It is incumbent on the Broncos to do due diligence and talk to a number of people with different coaching philosophies. Let the hiring process play out prior to over-reacting.

Once the hire is made we will have plenty of time to throw stones.

jbones733
01-07-2011, 02:27 PM
This is a by product of the elway hiring. One of the worst things the new front office can do is hire a former bronco for HC.

Where do we go from here? Let's say they do hire him and everything goes to he'll for a couple more years. Part of a hiring process is hiring someone you can fire, how the he'll do you fire Elway? First Xanders will go but sooner or later if things don't turn around you have to fire elway the road to that firing starts with Dennison

The team will be a disaster for the next 10 years, lets face it

worm
01-07-2011, 02:32 PM
The team will be a disaster for the next 10 years, lets face it

The Falcons were in a 10x worse situation than us. It took them two years.

If Tebow is the Answer...the road back to the playoffs in the weak AFC West will be a quick one.

jbones733
01-07-2011, 02:33 PM
The Falcons were in a 10x worse situation than us. It took them two years.

If Tebow is the Answer...the road back to the playoffs in the weak AFC West will be a quick one.

1 - Matt Ryan is light years better than Tebow, Tebow is not the answer or a quick fix, he is a project

and they hired a good coach, not an ex bronco reject like Dennison

PRBronco
01-07-2011, 02:33 PM
If we get Dennison I wonder if we can lure Rob Ryan into a hokey "assistant head coach - defence" role, so we don't have to watch our team get gangbanged every week. Rob can audition for a HC job for 2012, and hopefully teach Wink how to not suck.

Inkana7
01-07-2011, 02:38 PM
1 - Matt Ryan is light years better than Tebow, Tebow is not the answer or a quick fix, he is a project

and they hired a good coach, not an ex bronco reject like Dennison

Yeah, FYI, Dennison hasn't been hired or even interviewed yet.

bendog
01-07-2011, 02:46 PM
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oubronco
01-07-2011, 02:54 PM
Dennison would suck diddly poo

broncolife
01-07-2011, 02:55 PM
Ok, where in the hell were all you guys when Dennison was still here and I was saying the EXACT same things about him and catching mega hell for it?

I was there with you. You even repped me for my hate of him :)

broncos-rock
01-07-2011, 02:57 PM
I could deal with Dennison if Rob Ryan would come coach the D.:strong:

field n.
01-07-2011, 03:01 PM
How can people act like Dennison never did anything here? In 2008, the offensive line gave up the fewest sacks in the league (12) and ranked second in the league in average yards per carry (4.8).

pricejj
01-07-2011, 03:03 PM
I would be happy if Dennison is the next head coach of the Denver Broncos. Like Elway said, since Bowlen has been the owner, the Broncos are the 2nd winningest franchise in the NFL. We need a head coach who is committed to the Broncos, and someone who will bring continuity to the team. This is the DENVER BRONCOS...

Don't forget the MILE HIGH advantage: Physically wear down the opponent by running the ball down their throat at high altitude.

Like Elway said, this is the Mile High City, 5,824 feet!!!

I love that guy :)

IN ELWAY WE TRUST

jbones733
01-07-2011, 03:04 PM
Yeah, FYI, Dennison hasn't been hired or even interviewed yet.


I know, but you can see the writing on the wall, they missed out on the best Harbaugh , and will go the comfortable, cheap rout w Dennison

baja
01-07-2011, 03:05 PM
Dennison has been routinely hated here forever, all he does is prove you all wrong.

This place was in melt down when he was chosen to replace Gibbs as O line coach, all he did was build one of the best lines in football allowing any no name back to look like Gayle Sayers. One of Kubes first hires was Dennison to be his OC they have been in or near the top ten ever since. He is ready, he will work well with the current FO setup. He will allow his coordinators to do their job and not micro manage like both Shanny and Josh. You nay sayers are going to be surprised.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 03:06 PM
I know, but you can see the writing on the wall, they missed out on the best Harbaugh , and will go the comfortable, cheap rout w Dennison

i have no idea why harbough would do better than dennison...

what have we seen that would lead us to this conclusion?...

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 03:07 PM
dennison has been routinely hated here forever, all he does is prove you all wrong.

This place was in melt down when he was chosen to replace gibbs as o line coach, all he did was build one of the best lines in football allowing any no name back to look like gayle sayers. One of kubes first hires was dennison to be his oc they have been in or near the top ten ever since. He is ready, he will work well with the current fo setup. He will allow his coordinators to do their job and not micro manage like both shanny and josh. You nay sayers are going to be surprised.

+1...

bendog
01-07-2011, 03:09 PM
What's funny is that the shanny haters are now looking at the guy who is truly shanny's hand crafted guy to carry on his coaching tree. We could do worse.

Orange4Life
01-07-2011, 03:12 PM
Please not Dennison. I hated him here the first go around. One good year of O-line play does not make up for 4? seasons of the worst special teams in the league. I've never been impressed with him.

Please say it isn't so. Mark me down as in favor of Fassel over Dennison. Barf

pricejj
01-07-2011, 03:16 PM
Elway knows EXACTLY how to win in Denver, CO. He made it to 5 Super Bowls. Do you know how he finally got over the hump at the end of his career?

By running a balanced offense and physically dominating the other team at the point of attack, while running the DAMN ball down their throats.

Don't think for one second that Elway forgot how hard it was to win those 2 Super Bowls. He will attempt to build this team based on what he has learned from his playing career.

IN ELWAY WE TRUST

baja
01-07-2011, 03:18 PM
What's funny is that the shanny haters are now looking at the guy who is truly shanny's hand crafted guy to carry on his coaching tree. We could do worse.

i hope you are not mistakenly calling me a Shanny hater. He was slipping and it was time for him to move on that does not translate into hate dog.

pricejj
01-07-2011, 03:19 PM
Shanahan was just bad at personnel. He is a great gameday coach... One of the best ever...

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 03:20 PM
Shanahan was just bad at personnel. He is a great COACH.

WAS a great coach...

pricejj
01-07-2011, 03:24 PM
TrUE Dat

GO BRONCOS

zdoor
01-07-2011, 03:24 PM
Heard we are setting up an interview with Rivera also on Sirius today.

pricejj
01-07-2011, 03:26 PM
Heard we are setting up an interview with Rivera also on Sirius today.

Awesome :)

spdirty
01-07-2011, 03:29 PM
Dennison? Been calling for him for a year and a half. If we get Dennison...

http://www.cowart.info/blog/uploaded_images/lombardi_trophy-749084.jpg

Agamemnon
01-07-2011, 03:30 PM
Dennison? Been calling for him for a year and a half. If we get Dennison...

http://www.cowart.info/blog/uploaded_images/lombardi_trophy-749084.jpg

We are thinking of the same Dennison right?

frerottenextelway
01-07-2011, 03:31 PM
I know, but you can see the writing on the wall, they missed out on the best Harbaugh , and will go the comfortable, cheap rout w Dennison

They painted over the writing on the wall.

broncolife
01-07-2011, 03:33 PM
Dennison? Been calling for him for a year and a half. If we get Dennison...

http://www.cowart.info/blog/uploaded_images/lombardi_trophy-749084.jpg

Is there a hole in that trophy?

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 03:53 PM
Heard we are setting up an interview with Rivera also on Sirius today.

It's about freakin time.....outside of Fewell, there's not anyone else worth a shiat left on the shortlist.

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 03:54 PM
Dennison has been routinely hated here forever, all he does is prove you all wrong.

This place was in melt down when he was chosen to replace Gibbs as O line coach, all he did was build one of the best lines in football allowing any no name back to look like Gayle Sayers. One of Kubes first hires was Dennison to be his OC they have been in or near the top ten ever since. He is ready, he will work well with the current FO setup. He will allow his coordinators to do their job and not micro manage like both Shanny and Josh. You nay sayers are going to be surprised.

Pfft....I highly doubt it.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 04:01 PM
Pfft....I highly doubt it.

why?...

Chris
01-07-2011, 04:02 PM
I will say this. I don't like Dennison but I will not hate on our new coach until I've seen half a season.

chawknz
01-07-2011, 04:10 PM
This is the man I'd like to see as HC.

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 04:13 PM
why?...

I've never been all that impressed by him and am skeptical of him in a HC role......admittingly, that probably has something to do with the fact that he was one of the very worst ST coaches that I've ever seen.

Besides, at this critical time, I honestly feel that it must be a defensive guy who gets the HC nod. Tebow or not, we need someone with a mindset geared towards fixing that open sore the Broncos have been calling a defense for the last five years. No more offensive guys, gimmie defensive HC's from now on.

oubronco
01-07-2011, 04:16 PM
We just need a great coach period

meangene
01-07-2011, 04:17 PM
Heard we are setting up an interview with Rivera also on Sirius today.

Please let this happen! Absolutely the best option of all the names mentioned as being on our list.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 04:18 PM
I've never been all that impressed by him and am skeptical of him in a HC role......admittingly, that probably has something to do with the fact that he was one of the very worst ST coaches that I've ever seen.

Besides, at this critical time, I honestly feel that it must be a defensive guy who gets the HC nod. Tebow or not, we need someone with a mindset geared towards fixing that open sore the Broncos have been calling a defense for the last five years. No more offensive guys, gimmie defensive HC's from now on.

i see....

i can respect that...

i thought dennison did okay for us and maybe i'm more enamored with what he would possibly represent than the person himself...i'd expect WCO with ZBS...and i think that would work well for Big Bow and Knowshon and our o-line...

DenverBroncosJM
01-07-2011, 04:27 PM
How is this a byproduct of the Elway hire when Dennison interviewed for the HC job last time around as well? Pre-Elway.

People really need to take in all the facts prior to over-reacting on a 'name'.

It is incumbent on the Broncos to do due diligence and talk to a number of people with different coaching philosophies. Let the hiring process play out prior to over-reacting.

Once the hire is made we will have plenty of time to throw stones.


I've read my post a couple times and I'm struggling to find the over reacting part.

Also if I recall correctly Dennison approached the Broncos not the other way around the last time.

Play2win
01-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Didn't Dennison coach LB, OLINE, and Special teams for us? So, he coached on Offense, Defense and Special teams at the NFL level (and for us). To have that perspective-- having coached all three phases, might do him really well, and might fit the bill for one really important quality of an NFL head coach-- coordination of the entire team.

bowtown
01-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Dennison has been routinely hated here forever, all he does is prove you all wrong.

This place was in melt down when he was chosen to replace Gibbs as O line coach, all he did was build one of the best lines in football allowing any no name back to look like Gayle Sayers. One of Kubes first hires was Dennison to be his OC they have been in or near the top ten ever since. He is ready, he will work well with the current FO setup. He will allow his coordinators to do their job and not micro manage like both Shanny and Josh. You nay sayers are going to be surprised.

Give me a break. Where to begin... First of all Dennison was hired last offseason by Kubiak. He was not one of Kubiak's first hires, he was one of Kubiak's last hires. He's been there for a total of one year. Before that he was a solid Oline coach here in Denver who was promoted to OC in '06 in name only by Shanahan to keep him from leaving, but Bates was really the one calling the plays. Dennison was essentially a glorified Oline coach/Rushing coordinator. That said, he did the job very well, but when Shanahan left, no one offered him a OC job somewhere else. He took a demotion back to Oline coach under McDaniels. Then, when Gibbs left Houston, Kubiak brough him down as his OC.

HOWEVER, Dennison's OC position in Houston is almost exactly what it was in Denver. Kubiak designs the offense and calls all the plays:

“What I do as a coordinator is I do the game plans. I go out there to call the game, but I take input from everybody. I take input from (offensive line coach) John Benton, Rico (offensive coordinator Rick Dennison) and I work together. I take input from all of the coaches. I think calling games in this league is about everybody putting their brains together. It really doesn’t matter who actually says, ‘okay, this is the play we’re going to run.’ I think we all come to that conclusion and what we want to do in situations and we go forward with that. I think being good and to me, there’s been a lot of good things on offense, comes from a lot of guys working together. It’s not just about the guy who sends the play in.” -Kubiak

Dennison, again is not really a real OC. He is a very good, but glorified Oline coach with a fancy title. That's what Dennison is good at: offensive line, but I see nothing that he has done in his past that points to him being qualified to be a head coach and rebuild a broken team. Don't you think it's somewhat supect that the only place the guy has ever had a HC interview is Denver... which was basically a curtousy interview in 09? I think Dennison is a great line coach and always stood up for him in the past when people would rag on him for not being Gibbs. But seriously, what has Dennison accompished other than playing and coaching for the Broncos that makes you think he has what it takes to orchestrate a Broncos rise from the ashes?

bowtown
01-07-2011, 04:30 PM
How is this a byproduct of the Elway hire when Dennison interviewed for the HC job last time around as well? Pre-Elway.

People really need to take in all the facts prior to over-reacting on a 'name'.

It is incumbent on the Broncos to do due diligence and talk to a number of people with different coaching philosophies. Let the hiring process play out prior to over-reacting.

Once the hire is made we will have plenty of time to throw stones.

He asked for that interview and was granted it as a courtesy. It went so well that they demoted him from OC to Oline coach.

2KBack
01-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Give me a break. Where to begin... First of all Dennison was hired last offseason by Kubiak. He was not one of Kubiak's first hire, he was one of Kubiak's last hires. He's been there for a total of one year. Before that he was a solid Oline coach here in Denver who was promoted to OC in '06 in name only by Shanahan to keep him from leaving, but Bates was really the one calling the plays. Dennison was essentially a glorified Oline coach/Rushing coordinator. That said, he did the job very well, but when Shanahan left, no one offered him a OC job somewhere else. He took a demotion back to Oline coach under McDaniels. Then, when Gibbs left Houston, Kubiak brough him down as his OC.

HOWEVER, Dennison's OC position in Houston is almost exactly what it was in Denver. Kubiak designs the offense and calls all the plays:



Dennison, again is not really a real OC. He is a very good, but glorified Oline coach with a fancy title. That's what Dennison is good at offensive line, but I see nothing that he has done in his past that points to him being qualified to be a head coach and rebuild a broken team. Don't you think it's somewhat supect that the only place the guy has ever had a HC interview is Denver... which was basically a curtousy interview in 09? I think Dennison is a great line coach and always stood up for him in the past when people would rag on him for not being Gibbs. But seriously, what has Dennison has accompished other than playing and coaching for the Broncos that makes you think he has what it takes to orchestrate a Broncos rise from the ashes?

That just screams, plays well with others, and will be willing and able to delegate. Head coaches don't have to call plays.

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Didn't Dennison coach LB, OLINE, and Special teams for us? So, he coached on Offense, Defense and Special teams at the NFL level (and for us). To have that perspective-- having coached all three phases, might do him really well, and might fit the bill for one really important quality of an NFL head coach-- coordination of the entire team.

He played LB for the Broncos, he never coached them.

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 04:36 PM
i see....

i can respect that...

i thought dennison did okay for us and maybe i'm more enamored with what he would possibly represent than the person himself...i'd expect WCO with ZBS...and i think that would work well for Big Bow and Knowshon and our o-line...

I don';t think you're gonna see a return to the Shanahan offense no matter who gets the nod. JMO.

bowtown
01-07-2011, 04:38 PM
That just screams, plays well with others, and will be willing and able to delegate. Head coaches don't have to call plays.

To me it screams company man. A head coach first and formost has to lead and coordinate. Dennison has never actually even lead or coordinated an entire offense. Again, I am a Dennison fan, but this is the same as hiring a position coach...

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 04:43 PM
I don';t think you're gonna see a return to the Shanahan offense no matter who gets the nod. JMO.

if thats the case, why get dennison then?...

i figured if elway wants dennison back, its because he can help return familiarity to the offense that elway identifies with and the offense we won 2 SBs with...

what else would dennison bring other than that?....if thats not in the cards then i'd prefer we go in another direction for coach...

but i'm hoping thats not the case...

gunns
01-07-2011, 04:46 PM
Heard we are setting up an interview with Rivera also on Sirius today.

Hallelujah!!!!!

Play2win
01-07-2011, 04:47 PM
He played LB for the Broncos, he never coached them.

woops. Was going off memory. Thought he coached on defense in some capacity. Well thats what I get for thinking ;D

Still, its great to have Elway back in the mix. Along with Tebow, there is that renewed competitive spirit again. A charge, excitement and electricity in the air about Broncos Football!!! HE-raaHHHH !!! :militia:

It will be fun to see how this plays out... :thumbsup:

Swedish Extrovert
01-07-2011, 04:50 PM
**** the ZBS. This looks like a case of the Broncos going with what they know.

The perception that we're unable to come up with fresh ideas is what's scaring away some of the better candidates.

And why we let McD go.

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 04:50 PM
if thats the case, why get dennison then?...

i figured if elway wants dennison back, its because he can help return familiarity to the offense that elway identifies with and the offense we won 2 SBs with...

what else would dennison bring other than that?....if thats not in the cards then i'd prefer we go in another direction for coach...

but i'm hoping thats not the case...

I tend to support the notion that it'd be financially viable to bring him in as HC....IOW, because he'd be a cheap hire that the fanbase by and large, would accept. It's a cynical notion I know, but I also think there's some smoke there as well.

gunns
01-07-2011, 04:50 PM
I've never been all that impressed by him and am skeptical of him in a HC role......admittingly, that probably has something to do with the fact that he was one of the very worst ST coaches that I've ever seen.

Besides, at this critical time, I honestly feel that it must be a defensive guy who gets the HC nod. Tebow or not, we need someone with a mindset geared towards fixing that open sore the Broncos have been calling a defense for the last five years. No more offensive guys, gimmie defensive HC's from now on.

This, this, this. Plus the fact that the offensive line was still good after Dennison took over because Gibbs was still here guiding him. Defensive all the way.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 04:53 PM
I tend to support the notion that it'd be financially viable to bring him in as HC....IOW, because he'd be a cheap hire that the fanbase by and large, would accept. It's a cynical notion I know, but I also think there's some smoke there as well.

well i hope you're wrong and i'm sure you do too...

but you're probably not...

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 04:55 PM
well i hope you're wrong and i'm sure you do too...

but you're probably not...

I hope I am as well....which is why I've been screaming for Rivera since day 1

Taco John
01-07-2011, 04:59 PM
**** the ZBS. This looks like a case of the Broncos going with what they know.

The perception that we're unable to come up with fresh ideas is what's scaring away some of the better candidates.

This is pretty much nonesense. Every team incorporates the ZBS. We used it in certain situations last year. It's never went away, it's not going away. It wasn't our primary blocking scheme, to be sure. But the idea that we can't go back to it without regressing into archaic football is silly. It's a very relevant scheme that still has plenty of shelf life in the NFL.

lostknight
01-07-2011, 05:01 PM
The more I think about it, the more I like this selection. I would like to keep McCoy around if possible.

serious hops
01-07-2011, 05:12 PM
I tend to support the notion that it'd be financially viable to bring him in as HC....IOW, because he'd be a cheap hire that the fanbase by and large, would accept. It's a cynical notion I know, but I also think there's some smoke there as well.

Sounds about right to me, but maybe I'm just a cynic also.

;D

footstepsfrom#27
01-07-2011, 05:13 PM
i could think of worse candidates...
He's tanned...he's rested...he's ready!

http://nflbook.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/reeves.jpg

oubronco
01-07-2011, 05:14 PM
Oh Hell NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dedhed
01-07-2011, 05:27 PM
This place was in melt down when he was chosen to replace Gibbs as O line coach, all he did was build one of the best lines in football allowing any no name back to look like Gayle Sayers. Dennison built that line?

Dedhed
01-07-2011, 05:30 PM
He played LB for the Broncos, he never coached them.

I don't think that's right. I think in '95-96 he was a defensive assistant working with LBs.

Dedhed
01-07-2011, 05:31 PM
I would like to keep McCoy around if possible.

Why?

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 05:35 PM
I don't think that's right. I think in '95-96 he was a defensive assistant working with LBs.

Nope, he was an offensive assistant during that time

Hogan11
01-07-2011, 05:36 PM
Dennison built that line?

Baja was just r e a c h i n g with that.

Agamemnon
01-07-2011, 05:50 PM
Why?

I would assume for continuity with Tebow. No other reason I can think of.

Dedhed
01-07-2011, 05:53 PM
I would assume for continuity with Tebow. No other reason I can think of.
If he showed any penchant for success I could see going for continuity. Overall, I thought he was terrible.

OrangeSe7en
01-07-2011, 05:54 PM
I dont see why everyone is so phobic about the old system. It worked then and it's working now in Houston. Dennison could be good. And he might be one of the cheaper candidates. He may not be the flashy candidate but theres nothing saying he couldn't be good.

lostknight
01-07-2011, 05:55 PM
Why?

Because I love the passing attack.

Agamemnon
01-07-2011, 06:03 PM
If he showed any penchant for success I could see going for continuity. Overall, I thought he was terrible.

To be honest, I don't know how to judge him seeing as he was running McD's offense how McD wanted most of the season. I do know that the offensive playcalling improved the last couple games with Tebow. All the same, I can't say I have much faith in the guy.

Agamemnon
01-07-2011, 06:04 PM
I dont see why everyone is so phobic about the old system. It worked then and it's working now in Houston. Dennison could be good. And he might be one of the cheaper candidates. He may not be the flashy candidate but theres nothing saying he couldn't be good.

It hasn't "worked" in over a decade...

OrangeSe7en
01-07-2011, 06:06 PM
It hasn't "worked" in over a decade...

Sure it has. I'm talking about the offense.

Agamemnon
01-07-2011, 06:10 PM
Sure it has. I'm talking about the offense.

I know what you're talking about, and I maintain my statement. The Shanny system is well past its prime and really is not a good idea going forward.

OrangeSe7en
01-07-2011, 06:13 PM
I know what you're talking about, and I maintain my statement. The Shanny system is well past its prime and really is not a good idea going forward.

And that would be true if not for the fact that it's not true. It's still a very viable offense. Its actually superior to the one McDaniels brought to Denver, which was faddish and discarded by New England.

frerottenextelway
01-07-2011, 06:16 PM
10 years from now Bates will be a good head coach, but coming off McD there is 0 chance we take another young one.

TonyR
01-07-2011, 06:21 PM
Give me a break. Where to begin... First of all Dennison was hired last offseason by Kubiak. He was not one of Kubiak's first hires, he was one of Kubiak's last hires. He's been there for a total of one year. Before that he was a solid Oline coach here in Denver who was promoted to OC in '06 in name only by Shanahan to keep him from leaving, but Bates was really the one calling the plays. Dennison was essentially a glorified Oline coach/Rushing coordinator. That said, he did the job very well, but when Shanahan left, no one offered him a OC job somewhere else. He took a demotion back to Oline coach under McDaniels. Then, when Gibbs left Houston, Kubiak brough him down as his OC.

HOWEVER, Dennison's OC position in Houston is almost exactly what it was in Denver. Kubiak designs the offense and calls all the plays:

Dennison, again is not really a real OC. He is a very good, but glorified Oline coach with a fancy title. That's what Dennison is good at: offensive line, but I see nothing that he has done in his past that points to him being qualified to be a head coach and rebuild a broken team. Don't you think it's somewhat supect that the only place the guy has ever had a HC interview is Denver... which was basically a curtousy interview in 09? I think Dennison is a great line coach and always stood up for him in the past when people would rag on him for not being Gibbs. But seriously, what has Dennison accompished other than playing and coaching for the Broncos that makes you think he has what it takes to orchestrate a Broncos rise from the ashes?

Great post. Surprised more haven't reacted/responded to it.

baja
01-07-2011, 06:22 PM
I've never been all that impressed by him and am skeptical of him in a HC role......admittingly, that probably has something to do with the fact that he was one of the very worst ST coaches that I've ever seen.

Besides, at this critical time, I honestly feel that it must be a defensive guy who gets the HC nod. Tebow or not, we need someone with a mindset geared towards fixing that open sore the Broncos have been calling a defense for the last five years. No more offensive guys, gimmie defensive HC's from now on.

Remember he was stuck coaching Shanny's STs and Shanahan never ever drafted with STs in mind. He had shiit for personal.

baja
01-07-2011, 06:32 PM
Baja was just r e a c h i n g with that.

Didn't he have to replace Lepis and than deal with the joke Foster and find a replacement for him? Didn't Harris come in on his watch?

Dedhed
01-07-2011, 06:56 PM
Didn't he have to replace Lepis and than deal with the joke Foster and find a replacement for him? Didn't Harris come in on his watch?
Not sure how Foster coming in on his watch would be a positive. Harris was drafted in 07, two years after Dennison moved into his shadow role as assistant coach/OC.

He's always been in a role where he rides coat tails. I can't think of anything that was his baby, except maybe the terrible STs he was in charge of.

OrangeSe7en
01-07-2011, 06:57 PM
Not sure how Foster coming in on his watch would be a positive. Harris was drafted in 07, two years after Dennison moved into his shadow role as assistant coach/OC.

He's always been in a role where he rides coat tails. I can't think of anything that was his baby, except maybe the terrible STs he was in charge of.

Isn't "riding coattails" somewhat desirable if it means he's willing to delegate to qualified people?

OrangenBlueOhio
01-07-2011, 06:59 PM
Mike Heimerdinger

OrangeSe7en
01-07-2011, 07:00 PM
Mike Heimerdinger

The guy has cancer.

OrangenBlueOhio
01-07-2011, 07:09 PM
The guy has cancer.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

Rich Rod!

baja
01-07-2011, 07:12 PM
Not sure how Foster coming in on his watch would be a positive. Harris was drafted in 07, two years after Dennison moved into his shadow role as assistant coach/OC.

He's always been in a role where he rides coat tails. I can't think of anything that was his baby, except maybe the terrible STs he was in charge of.

Foster was a Shanny pick 1st round too and a 1st round Shanny pick played so Dennison had to find a way to make the line work in spite of being saddled with Foster.

As for the STs Shanny never drafted with STs in mind and thus Dennison never had much of anything to work with on ST so the suckyness of those teams is not al on Dennison.

I am working off memory so I'm sure my time line is not perfect.

lostknight
01-07-2011, 07:21 PM
I still would like to see a combo of the E-P system we have been running with McDaniels and Shanahan's ZBS. When you introduce a new system, you turn everyone into Rookies, and the entire purpose of the last three games should have been all about getting Tebow out of a Rookie mindset.

Dedhed
01-07-2011, 07:31 PM
Isn't "riding coattails" somewhat desirable if it means he's willing to delegate to qualified people?

Not sure how to take that notion.

My point was that he's never put his own fingerprint on anything. He coached Gibbs' blocking schemes mostly to guys who had already learned it from Gibbs himself, he coached Shanahan's offense (under Shanahan's watch) to guys who mostly had learned it from Shanahan, and now he coaches Shanahan's offense (under Kubes' watch) to guys who have mostly learned it from Kubes.

He's never put a system in anywhere. He's never really been in charge of any of the units he's supposedly led to success.

Where he had the most autonomy he was the least successful.

OrangeSe7en
01-07-2011, 07:35 PM
Not sure how to take that notion.

My point was that he's never put his own fingerprint on anything. He coached Gibbs' blocking schemes mostly to guys who had already learned it from Gibbs himself, he coached Shanahan's offense (under Shanahan's watch) to guys who mostly had learned it from Shanahan, and now he coaches Shanahan's offense (under Kubes' watch) to guys who have mostly learned it from Kubes.

He's never put a system in anywhere. He's never really been in charge of any of the units he's supposedly led to success.

Where he had the most autonomy he was the least successful.

Sometimes a head coach who is the coordinators' coordinator works.

baja
01-07-2011, 07:38 PM
Sometimes a head coach who is the coordinators' coordinator works.

This is my take too, I call that person a manager over seeing strong OC & DC & ST

baja
01-07-2011, 07:40 PM
Kinda like Tom Flories for the Raiders or George Seifert for the 49ers

bowtown
01-07-2011, 08:45 PM
Great post. Surprised more haven't reacted/responded to it.

It's because you can't argue with it. If Dennison had the same record but with another team, people would be up in arms about us interviewing him (which by the way, I'm not opposed to). However, this full blown push for his hire is nothing but nostalgia.

serious hops
01-07-2011, 08:51 PM
Sometimes a head coach who is the coordinators' coordinator works.

I think this would bode better for a Dennison regime if we had a good reason to believe that we can and will put together a rockstar staff for him. I really don't see it happening, though. We don't exactly look like we're dying to fork over big money for the coaching staff, and working for a little-known first time head coach under an unproven front office isn't exactly the most attractive scenario. I particularly question what top DC is going to want to come manage our dumpster fire of a defense, especially after the way Nolan's solid work here was rewarded. Who's Dennison going to get that should make Broncos fans feel hopeful about this abortion of a defense getting fixed?

pricejj
01-07-2011, 10:41 PM
Who's Dennison going to get that should make Broncos fans feel hopeful about this abortion of a defense getting fixed?

This is my question also... What would Dennison's assistant coaching lineup look like? He has only been away from the team for one year, so who can he really get to come in here to fix the Defense? coach Tebow?

OrangeSe7en
01-07-2011, 10:51 PM
I think this would bode better for a Dennison regime if we had a good reason to believe that we can and will put together a rockstar staff for him. I really don't see it happening, though. We don't exactly look like we're dying to fork over big money for the coaching staff, and working for a little-known first time head coach under an unproven front office isn't exactly the most attractive scenario. I particularly question what top DC is going to want to come manage our dumpster fire of a defense, especially after the way Nolan's solid work here was rewarded. Who's Dennison going to get that should make Broncos fans feel hopeful about this abortion of a defense getting fixed?

Honestly, I think if they were to hire Dennison, it would be because he's relatively cheap compared to other candidates. And because of that, they could, then, go out and get a better DC. I'm not even sure Dennison would have a say in who the DC would be. At least that would be one of the possible benefits of hiring Dennison. He has a history here, he can bring back the old offense, and he probably comes with a smaller price tag.

Agamemnon
01-07-2011, 11:01 PM
Honestly, I think if they were to hire Dennison, it would be because he's relatively cheap compared to other candidates. And because of that, they could, then, go out and get a better DC. I'm not even sure Dennison would have a say in who the DC would be. At least that would be one of the possible benefits of hiring Dennison. He has a history here, he can bring back the old offense, and he probably comes with a smaller price tag.

When I consider Elway's press conference, and his emphasis on bringing in a coach that "knows what the Broncos are all about", I can't help but think Dennison is the favorite at this point. I'd prefer we go another route, but Dennison's career is almost entirely Broncos oriented (especially if you add in his playing years). He also runs the offense Elway is most likely to favor (the one he played in and won championships with).

Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't help but think that Elway is going to sit down with Dennison and get all nostalgic for the "old Broncos way" (which isn't that old honestly), and hire Dennison. If that happens all I can do is hope I'm wrong, and that system can still win in the NFL today. Who knows, maybe it can with a freak of nature like Tebow at the helm.

Of course, we'll have to get a great DC if we go that route, or we're doomed...

OrangeSe7en
01-07-2011, 11:19 PM
When I consider Elway's press conference, and his emphasis on bringing in a coach that "knows what the Broncos are all about", I can't help but think Dennison is the favorite at this point. I'd prefer we go another route, but Dennison's career is almost entirely Broncos oriented (especially if you add in his playing years). He also runs the offense Elway is most likely to favor (the one he played in and won championships with).

Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't help but think that Elway is going to sit down with Dennison and get all nostalgic for the "old Broncos way" (which isn't that old honestly), and hire Dennison. If that happens all I can do is hope I'm wrong, and that system can still win in the NFL today. Who knows, maybe it can with a freak of nature like Tebow at the helm.

Of course, we'll have to get a great DC if we go that route, or we're doomed...

Fassel is another name with Denver ties but, you're right, Dennison's name is at the top of the list when you're talking about that.

In the other thread, I just pointed out one of the flaws of having a defensive minded head coach vs a strong, autonomous defensive coordinator. It seems Dennison works well with others and doesn't have this huge ego either. He worked in a lot of capacities with Denver with varying degrees of success and in one case he was demoted, yet you didn't hear of him making waves.

Agamemnon
01-07-2011, 11:24 PM
Fassel is another name with Denver ties but, you're right, Dennison's name is at the top of the list when you're talking about that.

In the other thread, I just pointed out one of the flaws of having a defensive minded head coach vs a strong, autonomous defensive coordinator. It seems Dennison works well with others and doesn't have this huge ego either. He worked in a lot of capacities with Denver with varying degrees of success and in one case he was demoted, yet you didn't hear of him making waves.

I honestly hate the idea of Dennison. I can't help but think his appeal is pure nostalgia. I don't believe for a moment that we are going to become contenders by returning to our old offense. I just don't.

He's the choice that seems most likely though... ugh!~

SoCalBronco
01-07-2011, 11:54 PM
Sweet. That would be great.

Rascal
01-08-2011, 12:55 AM
Somebody give me a barf bag.

Requiem
01-08-2011, 01:00 AM
As long as Demetrin Veal is our DC, sign me up.

I would also take Courtney Brown or Kenard Lang.

TomServo
01-08-2011, 02:51 AM
Better Dennison than than spitting fool bill cower. that bastard was gifted his only SB win. big ben rescued that big chinned spitting fool.

TonyR
01-08-2011, 07:41 AM
It's because you can't argue with it.

It just cracks me up how there's supposedly a discussion going on here and everyone ignores the best points brought up in the whole thread and keeps babbling on. The elephant in the room and they don't even notice it.

backup qb
01-08-2011, 08:08 AM
Schlereth was on NFL radio or maybe it was Mad Dog radio talking about Dennison as a dark horse candidate. Spoke about him in absolute glowing terms. Said the guy is brilliant and would be a great hire. Sorry if this was already in the thread, but I'm not searching thru 8 pages of bickering to look for it.

TheProfessor
01-08-2011, 10:28 AM
Dennison is one hell of a candidate. Anyone who doesn't think he is worth the interview either doesn't understand the qualifications of the job or doesn't know much about him.

So far this is a good list of interviews. We need to stop wishing for a sexy hire, and remember thats how we got in trouble to begin with.

bowtown
01-08-2011, 10:30 AM
Dennison is one hell of a candidate. Anyone who doesn't think he is worth the interview either doesn't understand the qualifications of the job or doesn't know much about him.
So far this is a good list of interviews. We need to stop wishing for a sexy hire, and remember thats how we got in trouble to begin with.

Please shower us in your knowledge.

Dutch
01-08-2011, 10:45 AM
This is my question also... What would Dennison's assistant coaching lineup look like? He has only been away from the team for one year, so who can he really get to come in here to fix the Defense? coach Tebow?

Just a quick thought on this. I could see them keeping Wink as DC just for continuity in the scheme, and give him a major boost in talent (both through the draft and in free agency) to see what he can do with it. It would also be a solid approach given the potential lack of offseason preperation due to the pending labor crap. As for OC, I could see them making a play for Bill Musgrave from Atlanta. It makes a certain amount of sense. He has done a great job with Matt Ryan (he is the one that gets the credit for Ryan's development here in Atlanta). He is a Colorado Native (for what it is worth, but I know where I would rather live/raise my family). He backed up Elway for 2 years and they got along well. Dennison was an offensive assistant while Bill was John's backup, so there must be some familiarity there. It would also be a promotion for Bill. I could see this all coming about, and frankly have no issues with it. This offseason is going to be dominated with the uncertainty of the labor strife. I honestly think we are 2 seasons away from being a solid contender as I feel Tim will need a full season of coaching (including offseason/training camp which he may miss out on this year) to get solid at the pro game. He WILL get there, I have no doubt about that. I just think he is about a year to a year and a half away.

TheProfessor
01-08-2011, 10:46 AM
Please shower us in your knowledge.

First he is everything our previous coach wasn't, such as: calm, even keeled, mature, a leader, and past puberty (sorry I couldn't resist). He is also considered (mentioned by players on different occations)to be highly intelligent, and well organized. On top of that he proved to be a fantastic O-Line coach taking half the talent that alex gibbs had and delivering 80% of the the results. His former players such as Mark Sclereth (the definition of a smart, tough, and versatle player) thinks he would be an excellent hire. Oh and add to that he would already have a working relationship with the entire FO and most of the players.

Is he the man for the job... we will see as this plays out. For right now he is an excellent choice for an interview and one of my favorites for the job.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 10:51 AM
Just a quick thought on this. I could see them keeping Wink as DC just for continuity in the scheme, and give him a major boost in talent (both through the draft and in free agency) to see what he can do with it. It would also be a solid approach given the potential lack of offseason preperation due to the pending labor crap. As for OC, I could see them making a play for Bill Musgrave from Atlanta. It makes a certain amount of sense. He has done a great job with Matt Ryan (he is the one that gets the credit for Ryan's development here in Atlanta). He is a Colorado Native (for what it is worth, but I know where I would rather live/raise my family). He backed up Elway for 2 years and they got along well. Dennison was an offensive assistant while Bill was John's backup, so there must be some familiarity there. It would also be a promotion for Bill. I could see this all coming about, and frankly have no issues with it. This offseason is going to be dominated with the uncertainty of the labor strife. I honestly think we are 2 seasons away from being a solid contender as I feel Tim will need a full season of coaching (including offseason/training camp which he may miss out on this year) to get solid at the pro game. He WILL get there, I have no doubt about that. I just think he is about a year to a year and a half away.

The problem with Wink is Josh. Wink inherited the job because he would do what Josh told him and this was a source of friction between Nolan and Josh. So, does anyone really know what Wink is all about as a defensive coordinator since Josh had him under his thumb?

Dutch
01-08-2011, 11:03 AM
First he is everything our previous coach wasn't, such as: calm, even keeled, mature, a leader, and past puberty (sorry I couldn't resist). He is also considered (mentioned by players on different occations)to be highly intelligent, and well organized. On top of that he proved to be a fantastic O-Line coach taking half the talent that alex gibbs had and delivering 80% of the the results. His former players such as Mark Sclereth (the definition of a smart, tough, and versatle player) thinks he would be an excellent hire. Oh and add to that he would already have a working relationship with the entire FO and most of the players.

Is he the man for the job... we will see as this plays out. For right now he is an excellent choice for an interview and one of my favorites for the job.

I think you've nailed it. I was not on board with the "nostalgia tour" coaching hire previously as I was afraid it meant Kubes. His team is soft, just like Shanny's are. However, the more I look at Rick the better I feel about it. He is anything BUT soft. He is also one of the smartest guys around according to everyone who has ever spent time or worked with him. Level headed leader and team player, basically what I think we need to rebuild this team. I look back to when the Falcons hired Mike Smith and the howling and crying that went on here with the media and the fan base. Everyone wanted the big name "Rock Star" coach and the Falcons were blown off by all of them. The franchise was looked at as toxic by the entire league, worse in fact than where Denver is at the moment. Look where they are now. Smith gets credit for not only being a solid coach, but a smart guy who knows how to lead men. Sounds a lot like Dennison to me, and he will bleed Bronco Orange...of that I have no doubt.

TonyR
01-08-2011, 11:07 AM
The franchise was looked at as toxic by the entire league, worse in fact than where Denver is at the moment. Look where they are now.

Good post, agree. But again, the big problem I have with the comparison is that Atlanta put together a really solid front office. Jury is still out on whether or not that's the case in Denver.

errand
01-08-2011, 11:11 AM
**** the ZBS. This looks like a case of the Broncos going with what they know.

The perception that we're unable to come up with fresh ideas is what's scaring away some of the better candidates.

Not to mention it looks like bowlen doesn't have any patience to allow a new guy to install his system and fill the roster with his players.

Prior to being hired by broncos McDaniels was one of the hottest commodities inn the NFL....his work with Brady, the 16-0 patriot season, Cassell etc. had alot of teams wanting him as their head coach.

with the benefit of hindsight one could argue perhaps he wasn't ready or that great afterall...but why would the next top HC prospect even give us a sniff if they're of the belief that they won't be given the time they need to put the cogs they want in place?

josh may have very well deseserved to be fired....a 6-0 start and 5-18 finish kind of does that to you, but if Bowlen only gave the top HC prospect 29 games to build his vision, what makes any new hotshot think they'd be given more time if they too don't win immediately?

gunns
01-08-2011, 11:11 AM
I dont see why everyone is so phobic about the old system. It worked then and it's working now in Houston. Dennison could be good. And he might be one of the cheaper candidates. He may not be the flashy candidate but theres nothing saying he couldn't be good.

Take a look at Al Davis. He's still living in the 70's, trying to rebuild the glory of those days, taking the fastest players and trying to maintain their old system. It aint working. Times have changed, the game has changed. We basically had our old system here when Shanahan was here. Wasn't working.

errand
01-08-2011, 11:20 AM
I don't have a problem with Dennison being the HC....i'm just curious why alot of posters on here that hated while he was in Denver all of a sudden want him back?

Arthur Blank does one thing that alot of other owners don't...he doesn't meddle. He holds people accountable, but he gives them what they tell him they gotta have to win.

as far as the nostalgia tour stuff....while i love what Kubes and Mike gave us in the 90's I also remember what they gave us in the '00's....and if we want a good offense/bad defense team, we never would have fired mike to begin with

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 11:29 AM
Take a look at Al Davis. He's still living in the 70's, trying to rebuild the glory of those days, taking the fastest players and trying to maintain their old system. It aint working. Times have changed, the game has changed. We basically had our old system here when Shanahan was here. Wasn't working.

That system still works. Stop making stuff up and using ridiculous examples.

broncolife
01-08-2011, 12:04 PM
Take a look at Al Davis. He's still living in the 70's, trying to rebuild the glory of those days, taking the fastest players and trying to maintain their old system. It aint working. Times have changed, the game has changed. We basically had our old system here when Shanahan was here. Wasn't working.

We also didnt have all the players needed. I really thought if we could just get a rb and te that O could have been great. But instead we gutted it and went another direction. 2 major factors in our super bowl years Sharpe and TD.

gunns
01-08-2011, 12:11 PM
That system still works. Stop making stuff up and using ridiculous examples.

What exactly did I make up? And which system are you referring to, Raiders or Broncos? I'm assuming the Broncos. If it worked so well why did we have an avg win record of 9-7 over 10 years? I was really impressed with how well it worked in Washington. Please.

And no, I do not believe it's because we didn't have the pieces. It does not take 10 years to get the pieces.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 12:21 PM
What exactly did I make up? And which system are you referring to, Raiders or Broncos? I'm assuming the Broncos. If it worked so well why did we have an avg win record of 9-7 over 10 years? I was really impressed with how well it worked in Washington. Please.

And no, I do not believe it's because we didn't have the pieces. It does not take 10 years to get the pieces.

Really? You're seriously asking this? You should really do some research.

Chris
01-08-2011, 12:23 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a TE in the 2nd round if he's the BPA.

gunns
01-08-2011, 12:26 PM
Really? You're seriously asking this? You should really do some research.

I don't believe I would have asked if I had known. Now I'm starting to wonder if you do since you can't seem to answer the question. I don't need to do any research. Been watching the Broncos for over 40 years, that's all the research I need.

mikey555
01-08-2011, 12:27 PM
Just a quick thought on this. I could see them keeping Wink as DC just for continuity in the scheme, and give him a major boost in talent (both through the draft and in free agency) to see what he can do with it. It would also be a solid approach given the potential lack of offseason preperation due to the pending labor crap. As for OC, I could see them making a play for Bill Musgrave from Atlanta. It makes a certain amount of sense. He has done a great job with Matt Ryan (he is the one that gets the credit for Ryan's development here in Atlanta). He is a Colorado Native (for what it is worth, but I know where I would rather live/raise my family). He backed up Elway for 2 years and they got along well. Dennison was an offensive assistant while Bill was John's backup, so there must be some familiarity there. It would also be a promotion for Bill. I could see this all coming about, and frankly have no issues with it. This offseason is going to be dominated with the uncertainty of the labor strife. I honestly think we are 2 seasons away from being a solid contender as I feel Tim will need a full season of coaching (including offseason/training camp which he may miss out on this year) to get solid at the pro game. He WILL get there, I have no doubt about that. I just think he is about a year to a year and a half away.

Dude you hit the nail right on the friggin head!!!! that would be an awesome combination, plus that would also be a plus for coaxing Champ Bailey back...The thing I took away from his last or second to last interview was that he wants continuity the most... Guy's never had the same DC for 2 years in a row!

elsid13
01-08-2011, 12:29 PM
Take a look at Al Davis. He's still living in the 70's, trying to rebuild the glory of those days, taking the fastest players and trying to maintain their old system. It aint working. Times have changed, the game has changed. We basically had our old system here when Shanahan was here. Wasn't working.

People keep making this argument and it has no basis what so ever. It not the system that was a problem, it was the talent mainly on the defense and offense guard spot.

Green Bay runs WCO offense with Zone blocking. Philly runs WCO with some run zone blocking and deep attack. Seattle runs WCO with zone blocking. The NY Jets run WCO attack.

Tim
01-08-2011, 12:29 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a TE in the 2nd round if he's the BPA.
Kyle Randolph would be the only one worth wasting a 2nd on

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 12:34 PM
I don't believe I would have asked if I had known. Now I'm starting to wonder if you do since you can't seem to answer the question. I don't need to do any research. Been watching the Broncos for over 40 years, that's all the research I need.

OK, Im glad you're admitting that you're speaking out of ignorance. On principle, I'm not going make this a big endeavor but I'll just point this out to you.

You say the system is outdated. You say the system is irrelevant. Except, look at the team that runs the purest version of the old system, the Houston Texans.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Offense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=season_2010&sort=527&timeframe=

Overall Yards: 3rd
Passing Yards: 4th
Rushing Yards: 7th
Points: 9th
3rd down conversion %: 9th (Suck on that Mike Lombardi)
TOP: 11th
League's Leading Rusher: Arian Foster

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 12:36 PM
You should really do some research.

As should you. I would recommend starting with the scoring trend of Shanahan's offenses during the 21st century.

Hard to argue it's a personnel issue when Griese/frerotte led teams far outperformed The juggernaut that was Cutler/Scheffler/Marshall.

It's been a steady downward slide since the supebowl years regardless of the personnel.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 12:39 PM
Overall Yards: 3rd
Points: 9th


Here's the key. The disparity between yards and scoring. It's the reason the 3rd "best" offense in the league is watching the playoffs.

gunns
01-08-2011, 12:40 PM
OK, Im glad you're admitting that you're speaking out of ignorance. On principle, I'm not going make this a big endeavor but I'll just point this out to you.

You say the system is outdated. You say the system is irrelevant. Except, look at the team that runs the purest version of the old system, the Houston Texans.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Offense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=season_2010&sort=527&timeframe=

Overall Yards: 3rd
Passing Yards: 4th
Rushing Yards: 7th
Points: 9th
3rd down conversion %: 9th (Suck on that Mike Lombardi)
TOP: 11th
League's Leading Rusher: Arian Foster

Ahhh, now i see where you are coming from. Purely offense. And that was exactly Shanahan's "system". I was talking about the overall team. Shanahan was still operating on the notion that build a great offense, throw garbage at the defense and as long as you get an average defense, you'll win. That ended in the 90's. Take a look at Baltimore winning a SB with Trent Dilfer. Look at TB winning a SB with Brad Johnson. Take a look at the 18-0 Pats losing the SB to a better D. Look at the teams in the playoffs this year. And tell me with that system in Houston (very much like Shanahan's), how well did they do?

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 12:46 PM
As should you. I would recommend starting with the scoring trend of Shanahan's offenses during the 21st century.

Hard to argue it's a personnel issue when Griese/frerotte led teams far outperformed The juggernaut that was Cutler/Scheffler/Marshall.

It's been a steady downward slide since the supebowl years regardless of the personnel.

I have. In 2008, they were 2nd in yards and 10th or 11th in scoring. Thats hardly bad.

Also, the personnel on the offensive line wasnt cutting it but that was upgraded the year before Shanahan was fired. They just needed to do something about left guard and the OLine would have been golden. Instead, they let the boy wonder ruin the offensive line because there are too many people, like you, who think the grass is greener on the other side.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 12:48 PM
Ahhh, now i see where you are coming from. Purely offense. And that was exactly Shanahan's "system". I was talking about the overall team. Shanahan was still operating on the notion that build a great offense, throw garbage at the defense and as long as you get an average defense, you'll win. That ended in the 90's. Take a look at Baltimore winning a SB with Trent Dilfer. Look at TB winning a SB with Brad Johnson. Take a look at the 18-0 Pats losing the SB to a better D. Look at the teams in the playoffs this year. And tell me with that system in Houston (very much like Shanahan's), how well did they do?

The term Shanahan/Kubiak system was used in this discussion. That implies it's about offense. There is no Shanahan/Kubiak system on defense other than trying to find a new defensive coordinator.

But that doesnt mean you should throw the baby out with the bath water. Dennison would likely be one of the cheaper options which could allow you to spend a little more money on a defensive coordinator and give him relative autonomy.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 12:50 PM
Here's the key. The disparity between yards and scoring. It's the reason the 3rd "best" offense in the league is watching the playoffs.

I love how you're trying so desperately (and failing) to turn an argument about a bad defense into an argument about Houston having a bad offense.

gunns
01-08-2011, 01:00 PM
The term Shanahan/Kubiak system was used in this discussion. That implies it's about offense. There is no Shanahan/Kubiak system on defense other than trying to find a new defensive coordinator.

But that doesnt mean you should throw the baby out with the bath water. Dennison would likely be one of the cheaper options which could allow you to spend a little more money on a defensive coordinator and give him relative autonomy.

You nailed it in your first paragraph. As a head coach you are responsible for the whole damn team, not just the offense. I find it incredibly remarkable that Kubiak has a team that turns out just like a Shanahan coached team, for 5 years now. And this is a matter of not being able to find the right D coord? Or just thinking if the offense is ok we can stick anyone there? I do hand props to Kubiak for taking Williams in the draft, but it's clear his focus is offense. If I were to place Dennison in place of Kubiak I don't believe he would have had even as much success as Kubiak has. Just my opinion, as that's all any of us have at this point.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 01:00 PM
We also didnt have all the players needed. I really thought if we could just get a rb and te that O could have been great. But instead we gutted it and went another direction. 2 major factors in our super bowl years Sharpe and TD.
This is exactly why the defense has been allowed to fall to such horrendous depths. The fallacy that Shanahan's offense was always "a couple of pieces away" led to a constant stream of offensive drafts which never improved the team because they were plugged into a system that has limited potential in today's NFL.

How can you possibly argue that it's personnel? In 2004 we had Jake Plummer, Tatum Bell, Nate Webster, Patrick Hape, Ashley Lelie, Rueben Droughns and Darius Watts and we had the #2 scoring offense in the entire NFL.

In 2008 we had Jay Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, the HOFer Peyton Hillis, Eddie Royal. All upgrades from a talent perspective, but managed the #16 scoring offense in the league?

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 01:02 PM
I have. In 2008, they were 2nd in yards and 10th or 11th in scoring. Thats hardly bad.


Are you just making this up. Almost anyone here knows that we were 16th in scoring that year, but it's pretty easy to look up.

Once again you've highlighted the fact that there is a vast difference between scoring points and gaining yards in that system.

BTW, yards don't win you games.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 01:04 PM
You nailed it in your first paragraph. As a head coach you are responsible for the whole damn team, not just the offense. I find it incredibly remarkable that Kubiak has a team that turns out just like a Shanahan coached team, for 5 years now. And this is a matter of not being able to find the right D coord? Or just thinking if the offense is ok we can stick anyone there? I do hand props to Kubiak for taking Williams in the draft, but it's clear his focus is offense. If I were to place Dennison in place of Kubiak I don't believe he would have had even as much success as Kubiak has. Just my opinion, as that's all any of us have at this point.

No, you should focus on both paragraphs. It's a good offensive system that's still very viable.

The defense needs work obviously, but that doesnt necessarily mean it should be fixed from the head coach position.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 01:05 PM
I love how you're trying so desperately (and failing) to turn an argument about a bad defense into an argument about Houston having a bad offense.

"Bad defense" is a hallmark of the system because you constantly have to sink resources into a flawed offensive system.

It goes hand in hand with the argument.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 01:06 PM
Are you just making this up. Almost anyone here knows that we were 16th in scoring that year, but it's pretty easy to look up.

Once again you've highlighted the fact that there is a vast difference between scoring points and gaining yards in that system.

BTW, yards don't win you games.

Guess, again, dude. You have to back out the points for special teams and defense. Once you do that, Denver's 10th or 11th. Like I said, I did my research.


Maybe you should do the same.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 01:06 PM
"Bad defense" is a hallmark of the system because you constantly have to sink resources into a flawed offensive system.

It goes hand in hand with the argument.

What???!!!

gunns
01-08-2011, 01:24 PM
No, you should focus on both paragraphs. It's a good offensive system that's still very viable.

The defense needs work obviously, but that doesnt necessarily mean it should be fixed from the head coach position.

Oh, ok. Well dummy me, I always thought the coach was responsible for the whole team, not just the offense. SOMEBODY forgot to fix the defense. Now who in the hell was it? I want his head!

gunns
01-08-2011, 01:25 PM
Guess, again, dude. You have to back out the points for special teams and defense. Once you do that, Denver's 10th or 11th. Like I said, I did my research.


Maybe you should do the same.

Stats, they never tell the whole story.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 01:26 PM
What???!!!

It was written in proper English. It's a classic Shannyism to justify drafting offensively, thereby blaming the personnel, to cover up for a system that is no longer effective.

How do you explain the fact that such efficient offenses fail to score points as efficiently? Other than blaming the scheme of course.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 01:32 PM
It was written in proper English. It's a classic Shannyism to justify drafting offensively, thereby blaming the personnel, to cover up for a system that is no longer effective.

How do you explain the fact that such efficient offenses fail to score points as efficiently? Other than blaming the scheme of course.

Except, they drafted defense. It's not like Shanahan was McDaniels. You can blame switching schemes or you can blame the talent that was taken, but to say he didnt draft defense is a falsehood.

But making stuff up isn't anything new for you.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 01:34 PM
Except, they drafted defense. It's not like Shanahan was McDaniels. You can blame switching schemes or you can blame the talent that was taken, but to say he didnt draft defense is a falsehood.

But making stuff up isn't anything new for you.

I'll ask for the 4th time. How do you explain why the system is so drastically less efficient at scoring points than it is at gaining yards.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 01:39 PM
I'll ask for the 4th time. How do you explain why the system is so drastically less efficient at scoring points than it is at gaining yards.

They don't have Tebow.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 01:43 PM
They don't have Tebow.

I'll ask for the 5th time.

How do you explain why the system is so drastically less efficient at scoring points than it is at gaining yards?

bowtown
01-08-2011, 01:49 PM
First he is everything our previous coach wasn't, such as: calm, even keeled, mature, a leader, and past puberty (sorry I couldn't resist).

How do we know this? He's been a terrible special teams coach and a good oline coach. How does that make him qualified to lead an enite football team? As far as the other traits you mentioned, there are plenty of failed coaches throughout history with the exact traits you described.

He is also considered (mentioned by players on different occations)to be highly intelligent, and well organized. On top of that he proved to be a fantastic O-Line coach taking half the talent that alex gibbs had and delivering 80% of the the results.

Yep, good oline coach who, in his entire career, has never even been given the keys to the the entire offense, and your ready to hand over the entire team?

His former players such as Mark Sclereth (the definition of a smart, tough, and versatle player) thinks he would be an excellent hire.

Mark Schlereth is the definition of a sports analyst who would have much better inroads to a team with a HC he knows and has played for. Didn't Schlereth also say recently that he would like to return to coaching? I'm not going as far as to say that Schlereth has an agenda... but I kind of am.

Oh and add to that he would already have a working relationship with the entire FO and most of the players.

This could be good thing, or it could be a bad thing. I'm not sure how I feel about this inexperinced front office having a in inexperienced buddy as their head coach. I'd prefer someone to have done all this before and maybe have some pointers and friendly conflicts with the FO.

Is he the man for the job... we will see as this plays out. For right now he is an excellent choice for an interview and one of my favorites for the job.

I'm not against the interview. Bring him in. I just hope that if he's hired it's becasue he's actually the best man for the job and not just a nostalgic comfort hire by Elway.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 01:54 PM
I'll ask for the 5th time.

How do you explain why the system is so drastically less efficient at scoring points than it is at gaining yards?

I already told you they were top 10 in scoring. I already mentioned the need to do back out non-offensive TDs, did I not? Otherwise, youre talking about something besides the offense.

Here the teams that scored the most points:

New England 5 defensive TDs
San Diego 3 defensive TDs
Philadelphia 2 defensive TDs
Indianapolis 3 defensive TDs
Atlanta 3 defensive TDs
Oakland 3 defensive TDs
NY Giants 0 defensive TDs
Dallas 4 defensive TDs
Houston 0 defnsive TDs

I just did the computation. Once you back out the defensive TDs, Houston ranks 6th in scoring.

bowtown
01-08-2011, 01:58 PM
I don't think it's a terrible system, I just think if you are going to run it, Mike Sherman is a much better and more experienced choice, who is also a proven winner.

pricejj
01-08-2011, 02:02 PM
I'll ask for the 4th time. How do you explain why the system is so drastically less efficient at scoring points than it is at gaining yards.

This may explain it:

Denver Broncos 2008 Starting Offensive Line:
(ZBS last run in Denver...so far)

LT - Ryan Clady - Rookie - 325 lbs
LG - Ben Hamilton - 8th year - 290 lbs - was originally drafted to replace Nalen at center. Good lineman, but lacking ideal size and power. Coming off 2007 season in which he sat out with severe concussion.
C - Casey Wiegman - vet - 285 lbs - 1st year in system
RG - Chris Kuper - 3rd year - 303 lbs - good young player, a bit small to be effective in red zone?
RT - Ryan Harris - 2nd year - 290 lbs - had a good season, but was inexperienced

I bolded the reason's why the 2008 line had problems in the redzone. The ZBS system is not the problem. Once again, you need big powerful guards to get a push up front to score in the redzone. The line from the 2008 season was very inexperienced, undersized, and had never played together before. Regardless, they still did a GREAT job!

GO BRONCOS

gunns
01-08-2011, 02:04 PM
Except, they drafted defense. It's not like Shanahan was McDaniels. You can blame switching schemes or you can blame the talent that was taken, but to say he didnt draft defense is a falsehood.

But making stuff up isn't anything new for you.

63 offense 45 defense and the majority of the defensive players SUCKED. I don't think I like that system. McD did the same thing, which was my main complaint about him and taking an offensive minded coach.

broncolife
01-08-2011, 02:04 PM
This is exactly why the defense has been allowed to fall to such horrendous depths. The fallacy that Shanahan's offense was always "a couple of pieces away" led to a constant stream of offensive drafts which never improved the team because they were plugged into a system that has limited potential in today's NFL.

How can you possibly argue that it's personnel? In 2004 we had Jake Plummer, Tatum Bell, Nate Webster, Patrick Hape, Ashley Lelie, Rueben Droughns and Darius Watts and we had the #2 scoring offense in the entire NFL.

In 2008 we had Jay Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, the HOFer Peyton Hillis, Eddie Royal. All upgrades from a talent perspective, but managed the #16 scoring offense in the league?

Did I mention the D? I was talking about the O. We were 9 players away on the D side. Now if I was talking about the team I would have said rb,te, and defense.I was trying to say the system works, but if we had a great rb and te the O would move would move to the next level. The 2008 O was very young and would have improved with players getting experience.The 2004 O would have improved if we got Te and Rb too.

2008-
Royal-rookie
Hillis-rookie fullback
Scheff-injury prone and average
Jay - 2nd year as a starter
Marshall-3rd year
Plus we had one of the worst Defenses 6int 9fumbles 26sacks

2004-Jake Plummer-I liked
Still needed a RB
Still needed a Te
Rod Smith?
Defense -12ints 24 fumbles 38 sacks
Sure helps O to get the ball more and better field position.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 02:05 PM
This may explain it:

Denver Broncos 2008 Starting Offensive Line:
(ZBS last run in Denver...so far)

LT - Ryan Clady - Rookie - 325 lbs
LG - Ben Hamilton - 8th year - 290 lbs - was originally drafted to replace Nalen at center. Good lineman, but lacking ideal size and power. Coming off 2007 season in which he sat out with severe concussion.
C - Casey Wiegman - 1st year in system
RG - Chris Kuper - 3rd year - 303 lbs - good young player, a bit small to be effective in red zone?
RT - Ryan Harris - 2nd year - 290 lbs - had a good season, but was inexperienced

I bolded the reason's why the 2008 line had problems in the redzone. The ZBS system is not the problem. Once again, you need big powerful guards to get a push up front to score in the redzone. The line from the 2008 season was very inexperienced, undersized, and had never played together before. Regardless, they still did a GREAT job!

GO BRONCOS

Yeah, this is true. Too many people misinterpret it as a ZBS problem when it's really a Ben Hamilton problem.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 02:07 PM
63 offense 45 defense and the majority of the defensive players SUCKED. I don't think I like that system. McD did the same thing, which was my main complaint about him and taking an offensive minded coach.

Again, there was no "system" on defense per se. McDaniels did almost nothing about the defense and made the offense worse.

gunns
01-08-2011, 02:09 PM
I already told you they were top 10 in scoring. I already mentioned the need to do back out non-offensive TDs, did I not? Otherwise, youre talking about something besides the offense.

Here the teams that scored the most points:

New England 5 defensive TDs
San Diego 3 defensive TDs
Philadelphia 2 defensive TDs
Indianapolis 3 defensive TDs
Atlanta 3 defensive TDs
Oakland 3 defensive TDs
NY Giants 0 defensive TDs
Dallas 4 defensive TDs
Houston 0 defnsive TDs

I just did the computation. Once you back out the defensive TDs, Houston ranks 6th in scoring.

Great, a good offensive system. 6-10

pricejj
01-08-2011, 02:10 PM
Yeah, this is true. Too many people misinterpret it as a ZBS problem when it's really a Ben Hamilton problem.

Also add in the fact that Clady was a rookie, Kuper may be a bit small, and it was Harris' 2nd year.

baja
01-08-2011, 02:11 PM
Give me a break. Where to begin... First of all Dennison was hired last offseason by Kubiak. He was not one of Kubiak's first hires, he was one of Kubiak's last hires. He's been there for a total of one year. Before that he was a solid Oline coach here in Denver who was promoted to OC in '06 in name only by Shanahan to keep him from leaving, but Bates was really the one calling the plays. Dennison was essentially a glorified Oline coach/Rushing coordinator. That said, he did the job very well, but when Shanahan left, no one offered him a OC job somewhere else. He took a demotion back to Oline coach under McDaniels. Then, when Gibbs left Houston, Kubiak brought him down as his OC.

HOWEVER, Dennison's OC position in Houston is almost exactly what it was in Denver. Kubiak designs the offense and calls all the plays:



Dennison, again is not really a real OC. He is a very good, but glorified Oline coach with a fancy title. That's what Dennison is good at: offensive line, but I see nothing that he has done in his past that points to him being qualified to be a head coach and rebuild a broken team. Don't you think it's somewhat suspect that the only place the guy has ever had a HC interview is Denver... which was basically a curtousy interview in 09? I think Dennison is a great line coach and always stood up for him in the past when people would rag on him for not being Gibbs. But seriously, what has Dennison accompished other than playing and coaching for the Broncos that makes you think he has what it takes to orchestrate a Broncos rise from the ashes?

I don't know maybe I'm not making my point very well. I am interested in Dennison because of many of the things you point out.

Our previous two coaches were both micro managers, they spread themselves so thin that they really could not do any one job as well as they might have if their egos had allowed them to trust in others. Sometimes the best skill in a Head Coach is having the ability to recognize coaching talent and creating an environment for that talent to thrive and micro managing them is not that environment. A recent example would be the loss of Nolan (a very good DC) because Josh tried to micro manage him. Mike Shanahan was notorious for the same practice (the little man upstairs), now before you all scream Shanahan hater try to recall Mikes years post Elway. He make undeniable bad draft choices and reached on free agents regularly and was a notorious micro manager.

Enter Dennison. Rick has been called the smartest man in the room by Mike Shanahan and for Mike, the mastermind, to say that you can believe Dennison is one sharp cookie. Being smart is not enough, at this level they are all smart. What makes Dennison such a good fit right now is he is wise enough to set his ego aside and work with all the other egos that come hand and hand with talent in both coaches and players. That is why I call him a manager. I believe our next head coach needs to be able to do three things.

1. He needs to be able to process and selectively adopt input (three legged stool). Remember Elway has emphasized the word consensus, the next head coach will have to be of a make up that allows him to listen. Like it or not Bowlen has decided to enter the Elway era and that means Elway is going to be involved in the coaching & personal process to a degree. He said mistakes detrimental to the Broncos have been made and he was there to protect the interests of the Broncos. That's a very broad statement but what ever it means you can bet John plans to be involved. Can you see Gruden or Cowher or any other "name" coach working well in that setting? The minute Bowlen brought in Elway the the gunslinger / mastermind coaching concept went out the window, that is a given.

2. The next head coach must be able to offer something to entice good coaches to come to Denver. What Dennison will have to offer is coaching autonomy, something that is very important to quality coaches. Guys like Nolan want to know they will be able to run the show on their side of the ball and be able to have input on player selection for their side of the ball. A manager type head coach is attractive to a ambitious position coach because he knows he will not be lost in the shadow of a big name coach and is more likely to receive credit for his work and that is a stepping stone to having his own shot at a HC position sooner.


3. The new head coach must be able to connect with the fan base and Dennison is a perfect fit for that. He played for the Broncos and coached in Denver for years. Bronco fans badly need to recapture the Bronco identity and the unity that goes with it. Just look at this board the last few years, us Bronco fans never fought among ourselves like this.

gunns
01-08-2011, 02:12 PM
Again, there was no "system" on defense per se. McDaniels did almost nothing about the defense and made the offense worse.

That's what I was saying, he did the same thing. Shanahan and Kubiak didn't have a defensive system either, per se.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 02:13 PM
I already told you they were top 10 in scoring. I already mentioned the need to do back out non-offensive TDs, did I not? Otherwise, youre talking about something besides the offense.

You clearly lack either reading comprehension or the meaning of "disparity".

I'm asking why the #2 offense in yards is only the #10 scoring offense.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 02:15 PM
Great, a good offensive system. 6-10

Its a very good offensive system. As you can see, it has a lot of balance. It ranks high almost every way, passing, scoring, rushing, overall yards. BTW, when you back out the defensive TDs, the only teams that have over 400 pts all have the following QBs: Brady, Rivers, Vick, Manning. As far as systems go, what Houston runs is very good.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 02:16 PM
You clearly lack either reading comprehension or the meaning of "disparity".

I'm asking why the #2 offense in yards is only the #10 scoring offense.

No, it's you that has a problem with reading comprehension. I already told you that Houston's offense is 6th in scoring.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 02:17 PM
That's what I was saying, he did the same thing. Shanahan and Kubiak didn't have a defensive system either, per se.

Like I said, they shouldnt throw the baby out with the bathwater though. Instead, they should take steps to ensure the defense improves even if that means picking the defensive coordinator themselves and giving him some autonomy away from the head coach.

But there's really no argument to be made that the offensive system is outdated.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 02:18 PM
I already told you that Houston's offense is 6th in scoring.
And what does that have to do with the #2 offense in yards being ranked only #10 in points?

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 02:19 PM
And what does that have to do with the #2 offense in yards being ranked only #10 in points?

It's ranked 6th in points.

broncolife
01-08-2011, 02:21 PM
I don't know maybe I'm not making my point very well. I am interested in Dennison because of many of the things you point out.

Our previous two coaches were both micro managers, they spread themselves so thin that they really could not do any one job as well as they might have if their egos had allowed them to trust in others. Sometimes the best skill in a Head Coach is having the ability to recognize coaching talent and creating an environment for that talent to thrive and micro managing them is not that environment. A recent example would be the loss of Nolan (a very good DC) because Josh tried to micro manage him. Mike Shanahan was notorious for the same practice (the little man upstairs), now before you all scream Shanahan hater try to recall Mikes years post Elway. He make undeniable bad draft choices and reached on free agents regularly and was a notorious micro manager.

.

I get it. Since he was a yes man in our organization he will say yes to his coordinators instead of telling them what to do. Eventhough I dislike him that theory moves me closer to fence that is if he only came with awesome coordinators.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 02:28 PM
This may explain it:

Denver Broncos 2008 Starting Offensive Line:
(ZBS last run in Denver...so far)

LT - Ryan Clady - Rookie - 325 lbs
LG - Ben Hamilton - 8th year - 290 lbs - was originally drafted to replace Nalen at center. Good lineman, but lacking ideal size and power. Coming off 2007 season in which he sat out with severe concussion.
C - Casey Wiegman - vet - 285 lbs - 1st year in system
RG - Chris Kuper - 3rd year - 303 lbs - good young player, a bit small to be effective in red zone?
RT - Ryan Harris - 2nd year - 290 lbs - had a good season, but was inexperienced

I bolded the reason's why the 2008 line had problems in the redzone. The ZBS system is not the problem. Once again, you need big powerful guards to get a push up front to score in the redzone. The line from the 2008 season was very inexperienced, undersized, and had never played together before. Regardless, they still did a GREAT job!

GO BRONCOS

There have been plenty of other years where they struggled in the red zone.

Dedhed
01-08-2011, 02:29 PM
It's ranked 6th in points.

We're talking about the 2008 Broncos genius.