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Doggcow
01-06-2011, 10:35 PM
For Tim Tebow.

That is all.

OrangeSe7en
01-06-2011, 10:38 PM
Yeah, and thanks for not playing him so you could be fired and he could become ours. Good luck with your bubble screens.

jx028
01-06-2011, 11:01 PM
lol.when i see this title , i guess will some interesting happen , but after enter ...lol .Yep, we should thanks for McD take Tebow to Denver under the huge dispute .

HAT
01-06-2011, 11:09 PM
For Tim Tebow.

That is all.

:pimp:

SoCalBronco
01-06-2011, 11:12 PM
:thumbsup:

spdirty
01-06-2011, 11:14 PM
**** that. McD hated Tim. It was Xanders, Bowlen and Ellis that forced us to pull the trigger for him.

Taco John
01-06-2011, 11:43 PM
Meh. Whatever. Yeah thanks.

I see it as divine intervention. We got hit by the bullet that God intended for the Chiefs, but to make retribution, he gave us a stud - a phoenix to rise from the ashes.

If only - OH IF ONLY the Chiefs had gotten this little douche as their head coach. We might be in the playoffs right now if we had gotten Spagnolo. Division champs.

Josh can get bent.

HAT
01-06-2011, 11:48 PM
OT: but seeings how 2 mods have posted in this thread.......Has anybody banned jx yet or are we free to post links as pseudo-sigs now?

That One Guy
01-06-2011, 11:53 PM
OT: but seeings how 2 mods have posted in this thread.......Has anybody banned jx yet or are we free to post links as pseudo-sigs now?

I'm more impressed by the fact that, even if jumbled, the should-be-a-bot actually responded to the thread. Are they that advanced in spam?

HAT
01-06-2011, 11:56 PM
I'm more impressed by the fact that, even if jumbled, the should-be-a-bot actually responded to the thread. Are they that advanced in spam?

Could be but it seems more like a Chinese spammer than a 'Bot. All 4 posts have been kinda on topic.

Taco John
01-06-2011, 11:57 PM
I'm more impressed by the fact that, even if jumbled, the should-be-a-bot actually responded to the thread. Are they that advanced in spam?

Blew me away, actually. If that's not a bot, someone is wasting a lot of yen.

Bronco Yoda
01-07-2011, 12:19 AM
This is a spambot? Scary how sophisticated this stuff is getting.


http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3072917#post3072917

That One Guy
01-07-2011, 12:41 AM
This is a spambot? Scary how sophisticated this stuff is getting.


http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3072917#post3072917

That's why it is crazy. If it's a person (who is obviously not english speaking, natively) and they do research just so they can know what they're saying while spamming... that's a bad business model. It's just a new technique in what was once an entirely bot filled world.

schaaf
01-07-2011, 12:45 AM
lol.when i see this title , i guess will some interesting happen , but after enter ...lol .Yep, we should thanks for McD take Tebow to Denver under the huge dispute .


What's this guys deal?

ZONA
01-07-2011, 01:25 AM
What's this guys deal?

1) It's a bot
2) The person is an idiot
3) The person is drunk or high
4) The person is an idiot who is either drunk or high or both



Not sure which one though.

cousinal11
01-07-2011, 05:13 AM
Go **** yourself McD.

LRtagger
01-07-2011, 05:57 AM
and thank you for Lloyd

jhns
01-07-2011, 06:01 AM
Thank you for no longer being here.

Homer Simpson
01-07-2011, 06:04 AM
Some very bitter and very angry people have to get over the fact from November 09 until Jan 11 it was rough as hell being a Broncos fan. Get some perspective about this sport, this game, and get excited for the future with Elway, Tebow and a new HC.

oubronco
01-07-2011, 06:11 AM
Meh. Whatever. Yeah thanks.

I see it as divine intervention. We got hit by the bullet that God intended for the Chiefs, but to make retribution, he gave us a stud - a phoenix to rise from the ashes.

If only - OH IF ONLY the Chiefs had gotten this little douche as their head coach. We might be in the playoffs right now if we had gotten Spagnolo. Division champs.

Josh can get bent.

Amen Brotha

Jetmeck
01-07-2011, 06:35 AM
Thank him.....when hell freezes over. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. He summarily ****ed everything up at Dove valley, shipped off all our talent because he can't get along with people and made us a laughin stock.

He should be apologizing to us...................

NUB
01-07-2011, 06:36 AM
What's this guys deal?

T-1000 spambot.

Kaylore
01-07-2011, 06:38 AM
**** that. McD hated Tim. It was Xanders, Bowlen and Ellis that forced us to pull the trigger for him.

:rofl:

Drek
01-07-2011, 07:16 AM
Thank you McD for.....

Tim Tebow, the best QB prospect this team has had since Elway.

Demaryius Thomas, an intelligent, freakishly gifted WR who isn't a ****bird.

Eric Decker, a nearly equally gifted athlete to Thomas who again is intelligent and a hard worker.

Zane Beadles and JD Walton, two young OLs who've gained tons of valuable career experience over this past season.

Moving the Broncos back to a 3-4 defense, WHERE THEY BELONG.

David Bruton, the best non-K/P special teams contributor this team has had since Kieth Burns left.

Knowshon Moreno, a gifted young RB who will realize his full potential by getting away from your pass first offensive system.

Robert Ayers, a "three year project" who was coming through in year two prior to injury.

So in short, thanks for turning those ****birds Cutler and Marshall into a wealth of young talent. Your massive failures as a coach and at assembling a quality staff have paved the way for a more capable HC and his staff to take these gifted young athletes and turn the Broncos into an elite team through their maturation. You **** the bed but you certainly didn't leave the cupboard bare for your replacement.

TonyR
01-07-2011, 07:17 AM
Funny to me to see that some people still haven't figured out that the Broncos biggest error wasn't hiring McDaniels but instead not bringing in a competent, experienced, empowered front office like the Chiefs did. I don't know what more some of you need to see before you figure this out.

Broncomutt
01-07-2011, 07:24 AM
A quote I read from the Denver Post the day after the loser got fired sums it up best for me.

"He never really was a Denver Bronco."

Boobs McGee
01-07-2011, 07:25 AM
Thank you McD for.....

Tim Tebow, the best QB prospect this team has had since Elway.

Demaryius Thomas, an intelligent, freakishly gifted WR who isn't a ****bird.

Eric Decker, a nearly equally gifted athlete to Thomas who again is intelligent and a hard worker.

Zane Beadles and JD Walton, two young OLs who've gained tons of valuable career experience over this past season.

Moving the Broncos back to a 3-4 defense, WHERE THEY BELONG.

David Bruton, the best non-K/P special teams contributor this team has had since Kieth Burns left.

Knowshon Moreno, a gifted young RB who will realize his full potential by getting away from your pass first offensive system.

Robert Ayers, a "three year project" who was coming through in year two prior to injury.

So in short, thanks for turning those ****birds Cutler and Marshall into a wealth of young talent. Your massive failures as a coach and at assembling a quality staff have paved the way for a more capable HC and his staff to take these gifted young athletes and turn the Broncos into an elite team through their maturation. You **** the bed but you certainly didn't leave the cupboard bare for your replacement.

Amen brotha.

And let me ALSO add thanks for publicly backing (and forcing the Fo's hand to respond ) the movement started by our fans to bring back Bronco Orange.

Steve Sewell
01-07-2011, 07:27 AM
Thank you McD for.....

Tim Tebow, the best QB prospect this team has had since Elway.

Demaryius Thomas, an intelligent, freakishly gifted WR who isn't a ****bird.

Eric Decker, a nearly equally gifted athlete to Thomas who again is intelligent and a hard worker.

Zane Beadles and JD Walton, two young OLs who've gained tons of valuable career experience over this past season.

Moving the Broncos back to a 3-4 defense, WHERE THEY BELONG.

David Bruton, the best non-K/P special teams contributor this team has had since Kieth Burns left.

Knowshon Moreno, a gifted young RB who will realize his full potential by getting away from your pass first offensive system.

Robert Ayers, a "three year project" who was coming through in year two prior to injury.

So in short, thanks for turning those ****birds Cutler and Marshall into a wealth of young talent. Your massive failures as a coach and at assembling a quality staff have paved the way for a more capable HC and his staff to take these gifted young athletes and turn the Broncos into an elite team through their maturation. You **** the bed but you certainly didn't leave the cupboard bare for your replacement.

This. Rep.

Steve Sewell
01-07-2011, 07:28 AM
Funny to me to see that some people still haven't figured out that the Broncos biggest error wasn't hiring McDaniels but instead not bringing in a competent, experienced, empowered front office like the Chiefs did. I don't know what more some of you need to see before you figure this out.

No no its Josh's fault! He's 33 yrs old and has never been a HC or GM but he should have been ready for those jobs! Stupid Josh.

Dagmar
01-07-2011, 07:30 AM
Drek, you could add Brandon Lloyd to that if you like.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 07:37 AM
Thank you McD for.....

Tim Tebow, the best QB prospect this team has had since Elway.

Demaryius Thomas, an intelligent, freakishly gifted WR who isn't a ****bird.

Eric Decker, a nearly equally gifted athlete to Thomas who again is intelligent and a hard worker.

Zane Beadles and JD Walton, two young OLs who've gained tons of valuable career experience over this past season.

Moving the Broncos back to a 3-4 defense, WHERE THEY BELONG.

David Bruton, the best non-K/P special teams contributor this team has had since Kieth Burns left.

Knowshon Moreno, a gifted young RB who will realize his full potential by getting away from your pass first offensive system.

Robert Ayers, a "three year project" who was coming through in year two prior to injury.

So in short, thanks for turning those ****birds Cutler and Marshall into a wealth of young talent. Your massive failures as a coach and at assembling a quality staff have paved the way for a more capable HC and his staff to take these gifted young athletes and turn the Broncos into an elite team through their maturation. You **** the bed but you certainly didn't leave the cupboard bare for your replacement.


i was a huge McD supporter, i'm sad it didn't work out...

i agree with Big Bow (my nickname for Tebow, i know its lame but i like it)....

and i semi-agree with the 3-4...it hasnt been great but i always wanted to see how it would look if we switched, so i'm glad i got to see it...now i'm ready to go back to 4-3...

Knowhon and Ayers, while not being busts, if i were to do it over wish we wouldve went with diff players...Orakpo for sure...

Same with DT...i see potential but i'm not sure he'll be worth what we gave up for him...

i do like Decker, he's oft injured but for where we drafted him, he's okay in my book...

surprised you left off Lloyd...

but McD did do some good things here, and perhaps your point is that is being overlooked...perhaps you're right...

NUB
01-07-2011, 07:39 AM
Funny to me to see that some people still haven't figured out that the Broncos biggest error wasn't hiring McDaniels but instead not bringing in a competent, experienced, empowered front office like the Chiefs did. I don't know what more some of you need to see before you figure this out.

Sorry. Memories of ****ty ass playcalling game in and game out are clouding my recollection. Am I genius for knowing plays before we ran them or does McDaniels playcalling suck that bad? I'd like to think I could hack it as a defensive coordinator, but I think the real truth is that McDaniels was prettay, prettayyy, prettayyy awful.

I remember McDaniels having an immensely unpopular character that was clear from the start with some people. I remember he cheated. I remember him losing a lot of games. I certainly don't remember this "wealth of talent" that we are pulling out of thin air. Eric Decker? Really. Thomas who basically never saw the field? Ayers and his amazing one sack. Our offensive line that plummeted from top to bottom in the run game? Moreno who can't stay healthy? Yeah, moving to the 3-4 and shipping off Nolan was so sweet we somehow managed to outdo the 2008 defense which was historically bad itself. What. The. ****.

Steve Sewell
01-07-2011, 07:39 AM
Probably left off Lloyd because he just seems like the type that is going to **** the Broncos over with a contract holdout somewhere down the line.

schaaf
01-07-2011, 07:46 AM
Probably left off Lloyd because he just seems like the type that is going to **** the Broncos over with a contract holdout somewhere down the line.


For some reason I'm thinking that he will too.

TonyR
01-07-2011, 07:47 AM
Sorry.

No reason to apologize for your inability to see the bigger picture. You're far from alone. When you come to the realization that our front office is still a joke, and the organizatoin continues to flounder, you'll eventually figure out that you can't keep pinning all the blame on Josh McDaniels. I don't know how else to make this any more clear. McDaniels did a terrible job overall, but he was put in a terrible situation with no support. And the people who did that are still with te team. Let me say it again: the Broncos biggest mistake was not putting in place an experienced, competent, empowered GM helmed front office after Mike Shanahan was fired. The hiring and failure of McDaniels were symptoms of an illness, not the illness itself. Maybe John Elway is the cure for the sickness but I have serious doubts.

Drek
01-07-2011, 07:50 AM
Drek, you could add Brandon Lloyd to that if you like.

Brandon Lloyd is a short term piece though. The players and changes I mentioned will shape this organization's future over the next decade.


and i semi-agree with the 3-4...it hasnt been great but i always wanted to see how it would look if we switched, so i'm glad i got to see it...now i'm ready to go back to 4-3...

The Broncos were one of the teams that helped originally define the modern 3-4 defense. It should be a Broncos staple.

~Crash~
01-07-2011, 07:51 AM
1) It's a bot
2) The person is an idiot
3) The person is drunk or high
4) The person is an idiot who is either drunk or high or both



Not sure which one though.

Could it be English transfer from Chinese . He might like the Broncos . They are on topic ...Strange all the same .

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 07:58 AM
Brandon Lloyd is a short term piece though. The players and changes I mentioned will shape this organization's future over the next decade.



The Broncos were one of the teams that helped originally define the modern 3-4 defense. It should be a Broncos staple.

thats true, and ideally i'd be all for it...

but in the end, i just want to win...

and i think we have a better chance with a 4-3 D than a 3-4...

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 07:59 AM
Probably left off Lloyd because he just seems like the type that is going to **** the Broncos over with a contract holdout somewhere down the line.

yeah...

hard to explain why, but i get the feel Lloyd could be a bit of an issue later...

hope i'm wrong...

Mr.Meanie
01-07-2011, 08:12 AM
Thank you McD for.....

Tim Tebow, the best QB prospect this team has had since Elway.

Demaryius Thomas, an intelligent, freakishly gifted WR who isn't a ****bird.

Eric Decker, a nearly equally gifted athlete to Thomas who again is intelligent and a hard worker.

Zane Beadles and JD Walton, two young OLs who've gained tons of valuable career experience over this past season.

Moving the Broncos back to a 3-4 defense, WHERE THEY BELONG.

David Bruton, the best non-K/P special teams contributor this team has had since Kieth Burns left.

Knowshon Moreno, a gifted young RB who will realize his full potential by getting away from your pass first offensive system.

Robert Ayers, a "three year project" who was coming through in year two prior to injury.

So in short, thanks for turning those ****birds Cutler and Marshall into a wealth of young talent. Your massive failures as a coach and at assembling a quality staff have paved the way for a more capable HC and his staff to take these gifted young athletes and turn the Broncos into an elite team through their maturation. You **** the bed but you certainly didn't leave the cupboard bare for your replacement.

This.

Also lets not forget adding Cassius Vaughn - the ST demon, and Big Vick.

PRBronco
01-07-2011, 08:22 AM
Thank you McD for.....

Tim Tebow, the best QB prospect this team has had since Elway.

Demaryius Thomas, an intelligent, freakishly gifted WR who isn't a ****bird.

Eric Decker, a nearly equally gifted athlete to Thomas who again is intelligent and a hard worker.

Zane Beadles and JD Walton, two young OLs who've gained tons of valuable career experience over this past season.

Moving the Broncos back to a 3-4 defense, WHERE THEY BELONG.

David Bruton, the best non-K/P special teams contributor this team has had since Kieth Burns left.

Knowshon Moreno, a gifted young RB who will realize his full potential by getting away from your pass first offensive system.

Robert Ayers, a "three year project" who was coming through in year two prior to injury.

So in short, thanks for turning those ****birds Cutler and Marshall into a wealth of young talent. Your massive failures as a coach and at assembling a quality staff have paved the way for a more capable HC and his staff to take these gifted young athletes and turn the Broncos into an elite team through their maturation. You **** the bed but you certainly didn't leave the cupboard bare for your replacement.

Awesome Drek.

I'd like to add:

Thanks for beating the Dolts in their house on Monday night.

Thanks for beating the Chiefs in their house for the first time in ages.

Thanks for the big (American) Thanksgiving win over the Giants and for giving us a new OM meme.

Thanks for the most exciting draft day ever last year.

Thanks for getting rid of Tony Scheffler.

Thanks for beating the Patriots by unveiling the Wildhorses.

PRBronco
01-07-2011, 08:23 AM
This.

Also lets not forget adding Cassius Vaughn - the ST demon, and Big Vick.

Omfg please tell me that's not a nickname for Tebow.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 08:24 AM
Omfg please tell me that's not a nickname for Tebow.

vickerson i'm guessing (hoping)....

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 08:25 AM
the real question is...did McD leave this team better or worse than when he got the team?...

PRBronco
01-07-2011, 08:33 AM
vickerson i'm guessing (hoping)....

Oh good point. I was genuinely worried that that was going to catch on for a second there.

Actually yeah, thanks for Vickerson, that was a nice little signing!

NUB
01-07-2011, 08:35 AM
No reason to apologize for your inability to see the bigger picture. You're far from alone. When you come to the realization that our front office is still a joke, and the organizatoin continues to flounder, you'll eventually figure out that you can't keep pinning all the blame on Josh McDaniels. I don't know how else to make this any more clear. McDaniels did a terrible job overall, but he was put in a terrible situation with no support. And the people who did that are still with te team. Let me say it again: the Broncos biggest mistake was not putting in place an experienced, competent, empowered GM helmed front office after Mike Shanahan was fired. The hiring and failure of McDaniels were symptoms of an illness, not the illness itself. Maybe John Elway is the cure for the sickness but I have serious doubts.

Hm. Put in a terrible situation? Denver was the premier coaching spot of 2009. Having youth at all the premier offensive skill positions is the exact opposite of terrible.

No support? He had Pat Bowlen and co. all on his side for much of his stay here. Or do you mean "support" as in people doing a job McDaniels clearly couldn't? Like a "proper" GM? This very argument is in direct conflict with others such as: trading Cutler/Marshall/Hillis was for the better; that his draft picks are a "wealth of talent". If the latter are true, why did we need to "reel him in" with a proper GM? Clearly everything worked out, right? So what's the problem?

Or do you mean support as in a playcaller? Because McDaniels didn't have the chops for that either. In fact, what kind of support are we talking? Perhaps a better spy to cheat with? Or someone who would help us not get blown out at home to the Raiders? Who wouldn't lose a bunch of games running the exact same, formulaic offense every week? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "support" because McDaniels sucked so bad at every single facet of the game of football I assume you mean "someone not named McDaniels should be the headcoach" when you say "support".

Or, in other words:

I don't know how else to make this any more clear. McDaniels did a terrible job overall

PRBronco
01-07-2011, 08:36 AM
the real question is...did McD leave this team better or worse than when he got the team?...

I know there's always the "omg he traded our pro bowlers!" argument, but he gave us Tebow, so...offense is a wash :D On defense, he inherited 3 players worth keeping. He got a career year out of Elvis (and a career high/team leading 5.5 sacks out of DJ this year). He also brought in Ayers, who looks like a nice piece for the future. Other than that the D is still a talent vacuum. But the addition of Ayers is an improvement so I'd say the defense is marginally better. Talent wise. Not statistics wise :-/

Mr.Meanie
01-07-2011, 08:40 AM
Omfg please tell me that's not a nickname for Tebow.

:rofl: how would that be a nickname for Tebow?

PRBronco
01-07-2011, 08:42 AM
:rofl: how would that be a nickname for Tebow?

:giggle: Think mobile, left handed QBs.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 08:44 AM
I know there's always the "omg he traded our pro bowlers!" argument, but he gave us Tebow, so...offense is a wash :D On defense, he inherited 3 players worth keeping. He got a career year out of Elvis (and a career high/team leading 5.5 sacks out of DJ this year). He also brought in Ayers, who looks like a nice piece for the future. Other than that the D is still a talent vacuum. But the addition of Ayers is an improvement so I'd say the defense is marginally better. Talent wise. Not statistics wise :-/

so you're saying we're better, right?...

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 08:45 AM
:rofl: how would that be a nickname for Tebow?

a bigger version of mike vick...

not saying its a good nickname, but i'd imagine thats the logic...

Mr.Meanie
01-07-2011, 08:45 AM
:giggle: Think mobile, left handed QBs.

Oh I see. Wow, that would have been truly awful.

~Crash~
01-07-2011, 08:46 AM
A quote I read from the Denver Post the day after the loser got fired sums it up best for me.

"He never really was a Denver Bronco."

Thank you for getting this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PRBronco
01-07-2011, 08:49 AM
so you're saying we're better, right?...

Yeah, a little.

~Crash~
01-07-2011, 08:54 AM
Oh by the Way Thank you McD ! I loved that last Draft !

TonyR
01-07-2011, 09:01 AM
No support? He had Pat Bowlen and co. all on his side for much of his stay here. Or do you mean "support" as in people doing a job McDaniels clearly couldn't? Like a "proper" GM?

Wow, I'm surprised this is so difficult for you to understand. You don't put an inexperienced 32 year old in charge of the whole organization. He didn't put himself in charge, Bowlen and Ellis did. They gave him the keys to the car and he wrecked it. He was too young to drive, and hadn't been taught to drive, but they gave him the keys anyway. "Have at it, kid, it's all yours! You can do it!!!" This team needed an good GM and we still don't know if it does. So the problem still hasn't been definitively fixed and yet people like you are going to continue to point fingers at McDaniels. That's the easy thing to do. He clearly screwed things up. But you're failing to see the bigger problem. You're ignoring the enablers.

Merlin
01-07-2011, 09:20 AM
When you come to the realization that our front office is still a joke, and the organizatoin continues to flounder, you'll eventually figure out that you can't keep pinning all the blame on Josh McDaniels...McDaniels did a terrible job overall, but he was put in a terrible situation with no support.
Agreed, he is not the only culprit, just a gynormous one; however he should never have been put in that position and that why I would like Ellis and Pizza Boy gone. That been said, laying all the guilt on McD is nowhere near as absurd as he McD apologists who to this point are trying to find a sliver of a silver lining in a gigantic pile of turd. The cup is not bear??? To suggest that those picks were good, and that any of them are performing up to their expectation is incredibly blind. To imply the cup was not full on the offense side and he did not virtually destroy is plain ignorant.

The stats from any perspective easily demonstrate how badly he has left the cup board. Far worse, is despite all the picks he had and the loaded young offense, the D has probably gotten worse as hard as that is to believe. In fact despite all his picks, the best veteran and young players in the D are still from the past freaking regime. How is that even possible??? One could imagine with all those picks just picking the most popular defender on most professional analysts draft board would at least have provided us with 2 or 3 players top tier players over two yrs. It is an absolute joke to suggest that McD did not decimate the talent in this team, yet the apologists shall never stop. It is truly a sight to behold.

Taco John
01-07-2011, 10:13 AM
Even if you give a kid $200, and send him to the liquor and cigar store - even if you're dumb enough to do this, the kid is still a dumbass if he buys a bunch of swisher sweets and Mad Dog 20/20 and replaces your 18 year with them.

NUB
01-07-2011, 10:18 AM
Wow, I'm surprised this is so difficult for you to understand. You don't put an inexperienced 32 year old in charge of the whole organization. He didn't put himself in charge, Bowlen and Ellis did. They gave him the keys to the car and he wrecked it. He was too young to drive, and hadn't been taught to drive, but they gave him the keys anyway. "Have at it, kid, it's all yours! You can do it!!!" This team needed an good GM and we still don't know if it does. So the problem still hasn't been definitively fixed and yet people like you are going to continue to point fingers at McDaniels. That's the easy thing to do. He clearly screwed things up. But you're failing to see the bigger problem. You're ignoring the enablers.

No I totally "get" what this argument is, I just don't buy it. They are dumb excuses as far as I'm concerned. If McDaniels thought he could do it then it is his responsibility, period. This is not at all like a kid and a new car. McDaniels is an adult who has been in the league awhile and under the tutelage of the best. Take the kid gloves off, please. Should he have had that much control? No. Quite clearly no. But he did. And he sucked at every single facet of football -- not just these "GM" parts -- and has almost no redeeming value from character straight through football know-how.

Is GM an issue? Of course. It was an issue when Shanahan was here and has been for awhile. That doesn't excuse Shanahan's responsibility for totally awful drafts, either. They're men. They make the picks, they take the responsibility for themselves. It's a cutthroat business and McDaniels was terrible at it. If you want to treat a cheating SOB loser with poor character and no on-field production like a kid because he was terrible at a job someone else should have had, fine. I'm not. I think there's a lot of blame to go around, but I will never buy this chicken**** that McDaniels somehow would have been better if he had daddy-daycare hanging over him. At the end of the day they were his calls regardless of whether they "should" have been.

baja
01-07-2011, 10:32 AM
A quote I read from the Denver Post the day after the loser got fired sums it up best for me.

"He never really was a Denver Bronco."

I never really thought about that but it's true. I'd really like to apologize to Blue because she saw that from the very beginning and I thought she was being unreasonable.

Cleo McDowell
01-07-2011, 10:44 AM
lol.when i see this title , i guess will some interesting happen , but after enter ...lol .Yep, we should thanks for McD take Tebow to Denver under the huge dispute .


I am serious when I say that I thought this guy was go_broncos' pseudonym

TonyR
01-07-2011, 10:48 AM
No I totally "get" what this argument is, I just don't buy it. They are dumb excuses as far as I'm concerned. If McDaniels thought he could do it then it is his responsibility, period.

But the thing is McDaniels is gone. We don't need to concern ourselves with him any more. Blaming him for everything isn't going to bring any progress or improvement. But do you know who still is here? Bowlen, Ellis, and Xanders. And we still haven't definitively fixed one of the major issues that made the McDaniels debacle possible: the GM and front office in general. I suppose we can argue that Elway is a fix, and maybe he is, but again we've put a guy in charge who himself said a while back that he didn't want to be in charge.

So again, I'm not concerned with McDaniels and I'm fully aware that he wasn't the whole problem. And I'm not buying what the team is selling that he was the whole problem and that everything is now fixed.

Drek
01-07-2011, 11:11 AM
thats true, and ideally i'd be all for it...

but in the end, i just want to win...

and i think we have a better chance with a 4-3 D than a 3-4...

How so?

In a 3-4 we've already got a good start on the OLBs and limited by only having one solid rotational DL (Bannan, being used as a starter) and the potential for one more (Vickerson). Both are mediocre solutions for a 4-3 NT, with the later being released from just such a role before coming here and looking passable as a 3-4 DE.

In a 4-3 we move two of our OLBs up to the line. By doing so the best defensive player on our team goes form being a three down contributor to being a situational pass rusher. The other OLB, a young project we've been coaching up for a 3-4 OLB job, suddenly needs to shift focus, add weight, and become a 4-3 DE.

You also make Joe Mays and Mario Haggan, two of the solid rotational LBs, completely without a role in a 4-3 defense.

So in a 3-4 we need:
Starting NT
Backup NT
Starting DE x2
Starting SILB (possibly already in house with Mays)

In a 4-3 we'd need:
Starting NT
Starting UT
Backup UT
Backup RDE
Starting LDE (possibly already in house with Ayers)
Starting MLB (assuming DJ moves back to ROLB)
Starting SOLB
Backup MLB
Backup SOLB

There is a flat out dearth of talent on this defense. But what little we do have plays best in a 3-4. All going to a 4-3 does is put together a list of names people recognize for starters, despite taking almost all of them out of their best positions, and leaves us with little to no depth.

Drek
01-07-2011, 11:18 AM
the real question is...did McD leave this team better or worse than when he got the team?...

Depends what you define as better.

He took over an 8-8 team. We just finished 4-12. So as of the 2010 season obviously the team has declined.

But if you look at the base of young talent on this team I personally think we've got more quality young talent across the board than what Shanahan left us with. And that is what we need for the next coach to build a winner here.

The only young talents of significance to leave with the regime change where Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis. Three of those four have either regressed or flat-lined in their career trajectory since leaving Denver. The other was a guy Shanahan himself was resistant to playing up until he had no other options.

Meanwhile those four have been replaced with Moreno, Ayers, Thomas, Decker, Beadles, Walton, Bruton, McBath, and of course Tebow. All of them at some point have flashed NFL level talent in one role or another. These aren't busts who showed no ability to hang at the NFL level. The right coach could make any of these players into a solid starter and several into all-pro candidates.

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 12:05 PM
Depends what you define as better.

He took over an 8-8 team. We just finished 4-12. So as of the 2010 season obviously the team has declined.

But if you look at the base of young talent on this team I personally think we've got more quality young talent across the board than what Shanahan left us with. And that is what we need for the next coach to build a winner here.

The only young talents of significance to leave with the regime change where Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis. Three of those four have either regressed or flat-lined in their career trajectory since leaving Denver. The other was a guy Shanahan himself was resistant to playing up until he had no other options.

Meanwhile those four have been replaced with Moreno, Ayers, Thomas, Decker, Beadles, Walton, Bruton, McBath, and of course Tebow. All of them at some point have flashed NFL level talent in one role or another. These aren't busts who showed no ability to hang at the NFL level. The right coach could make any of these players into a solid starter and several into all-pro candidates.

i hope you're right....

of the young players you mentioned, only tebow really has impressed me...but others have shown some glimmers i suppose...

Gcver2ver3
01-07-2011, 12:09 PM
How so?

In a 3-4 we've already got a good start on the OLBs and limited by only having one solid rotational DL (Bannan, being used as a starter) and the potential for one more (Vickerson). Both are mediocre solutions for a 4-3 NT, with the later being released from just such a role before coming here and looking passable as a 3-4 DE.

In a 4-3 we move two of our OLBs up to the line. By doing so the best defensive player on our team goes form being a three down contributor to being a situational pass rusher. The other OLB, a young project we've been coaching up for a 3-4 OLB job, suddenly needs to shift focus, add weight, and become a 4-3 DE.

You also make Joe Mays and Mario Haggan, two of the solid rotational LBs, completely without a role in a 4-3 defense.

So in a 3-4 we need:
Starting NT
Backup NT
Starting DE x2
Starting SILB (possibly already in house with Mays)

In a 4-3 we'd need:
Starting NT
Starting UT
Backup UT
Backup RDE
Starting LDE (possibly already in house with Ayers)
Starting MLB (assuming DJ moves back to ROLB)
Starting SOLB
Backup MLB
Backup SOLB

There is a flat out dearth of talent on this defense. But what little we do have plays best in a 3-4. All going to a 4-3 does is put together a list of names people recognize for starters, despite taking almost all of them out of their best positions, and leaves us with little to no depth.

you make excellent points, but you fail to mention perhaps the most important aspect of where to go with our defense....

the draft...

from all i've heard the d-line top prospects are suited for 4-3 defenses...

but yeah, dumervil could be less valuable in the 4-3...but i disagree about mays...i think he could play mlb...2 down player of course...

TomServo
01-08-2011, 02:34 AM
I never really thought about that but it's true. I'd really like to apologize to Blue because she saw that from the very beginning and I thought she was being unreasonable.
jeebus christ, lil josh came to town acting like we were cleveland or cincinatti or san diego.
we had our own history. orange crush, Superbowls in three decades. he acted like he was doing us a Favor. Like we had No history and it was up to him to "rescue" us poor bronco fans.

Drek
01-08-2011, 03:10 AM
you make excellent points, but you fail to mention perhaps the most important aspect of where to go with our defense....

the draft...

from all i've heard the d-line top prospects are suited for 4-3 defenses...

but yeah, dumervil could be less valuable in the 4-3...but i disagree about mays...i think he could play mlb...2 down player of course...

We got Mays from the the Eagles for basically nothing (JJ Arrington), they play a 4-3, tried once to give him a shot as a starter, and were thoroughly convinced he couldn't handle it. The Eagles FO is generally pretty damn good at their player evals.

The reason for the Eagles letting him go is abundantly clear though. He flat out can't cover. Even a two down MLB in a 4-3 needs some coverage skills. In the 3-4 you can mask a two down SILB's lack of coverage ability much easier. Even still he's borderline starting material at best, probably better suited to a backup role.

TonyR
01-08-2011, 07:38 AM
We got Mays from the the Eagles for basically nothing (JJ Arrington), they play a 4-3, tried once to give him a shot as a starter, and were thoroughly convinced he couldn't handle it. The Eagles FO is generally pretty damn good at their player evals.

This is very true. They had a bare cupboard at the time they gave him a shot after starter Stewart Bradley went down and he failed to provide what they needed. I don't think he can do it in the 4-3 unfortunately.

errand
01-08-2011, 10:02 AM
Wow...

8-8 and 4-12....not what anyone wants, but how is Josh worse than say Dan Reeves who once went 2-7, 5-11 and 8-8 before...or mike shanahan who also went 5-11 and 8-8 before?

The difference was the owner's patience....it eventually runs out...win early like Reeves did (10-6 in rookie season) and you're given a pass if you go 2-7 the next year. Win a super bowl or two...you can go 5-11 the next year...hell, you'd still keep your job by winning only one ****ing playoff game in a decade.

josh might have been in over his head. but acting like the guy was the worst thing to happen to this franchise is pretty lame. alot of hall of fame coaches have had horrible seasons they'd rather forget about. Gotta win early....or you won't last long regardless.

cutthemdown
01-08-2011, 10:04 AM
Considering the coaches we are looking at, the fact there is a looming lockout, I think we should have stuck with Mcd.

Next yr is shaping up to be a real mess.

frerottenextelway
01-08-2011, 10:05 AM
We won 6 games in 1999.

errand
01-08-2011, 10:08 AM
Considering the coaches we are looking at, the fact there is a looming lockout, I think we should have stuck with Mcd.

Next yr is shaping up to be a real mess.

I'm still curious how the team would have done had he finished his contract out. Who knows, maybe he finally would have fixed a sieve we have for a defense and we win 10-11 games. How well will Tebow do under a new QB coach vs McDaniels who's worked wonders with Brady, Cassell and Orton?

josh might have been in over his head...it's not the first time it's happened to a young coach. It sucks we gotta pay for 3 coaches next season...if there is one.

errand
01-08-2011, 10:11 AM
We won 6 games in 1999.


Wow, 6 wins vs 5...whatever...still finished in LAST PLACE didn't we?

frerottenextelway
01-08-2011, 10:20 AM
Wow, 6 wins vs 5...whatever...still finished in LAST PLACE didn't we?

I was correcting it because it was wrong. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 10:21 AM
Thank you McD for.....

Tim Tebow, the best QB prospect this team has had since Elway.

He's the most liked QB prospect but maybe not the best. I realize many dislike Cutler but the uncomfortable truth is that he was a great QB prospect and the fact that he's still in Chicago means that he won the standoff between he and Josh.

Demaryius Thomas, an intelligent, freakishly gifted WR who isn't a ****bird.

....meanwhile on defense....

Its not like the WRs were really a weakness.

Eric Decker, a nearly equally gifted athlete to Thomas who again is intelligent and a hard worker.

...who also has had trouble staying healthy. At least a first wasn't spent on him but based on last years draft, you'd think WR was the glaring weakness.

Zane Beadles and JD Walton, two young OLs who've gained tons of valuable career experience over this past season.

And it remains to be seen how good these guys are. Walton struggled massively and is probably one of the reasons the offense struggled and McDaniels is no longer here. But this is more a reflection on McDaniels than Walton who was, in all likelihood, doing his best. Walton is another reflection of McDaniel's poor judgment. Now, Denver may need a new center who can function in the ZBS. Thanks, Josh!

Moving the Broncos back to a 3-4 defense, WHERE THEY BELONG.

Yeah, thanks, Josh for chasing away the most competent coach on the staff because he was a threat to your ego. Well done! It was a shrewd move but it still didn't help your job security, you insecure little freak.


David Bruton, the best non-K/P special teams contributor this team has had since Kieth Burns left.

Awesome!


Knowshon Moreno, a gifted young RB who will realize his full potential by getting away from your pass first offensive system.

Moreno sucks. He was a waste of a pick and they traded a better running back that was taken in the 7th round to make room for this clown, on top of every thing else. Moreno is another black eye for McDaniels.

Robert Ayers, a "three year project" who was coming through in year two prior to injury.

And he can't pressure the QB.

So in short, thanks for turning those ****birds Cutler and Marshall into a wealth of young talent. Your massive failures as a coach and at assembling a quality staff have paved the way for a more capable HC and his staff to take these gifted young athletes and turn the Broncos into an elite team through their maturation. You **** the bed but you certainly didn't leave the cupboard bare for your replacement.

Maybe they can trade one of the WRs to actually address the defense, which is something they should have been doing from the beginning. This wasn't a rebuild when McDaniels took over but it is now. Well done, Josh!

errand
01-08-2011, 10:23 AM
I was correcting it because it was wrong. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

I was going by memory....having said that....

it doesn't change the point of my post....even our greatest head coaches have finished in last place.

OrangeSe7en
01-08-2011, 10:27 AM
I was going by memory....having said that....

it doesn't change the point of my post....even our greatest head coaches have finished in last place.

It's usually been because he chose to go with the younger QB with a larger picture in mind. But in McDaniels case, the Broncos would have actually probably won more than 4 games if Tebow had started playing sooner.