PDA

View Full Version : Gary Patterson?


footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 09:20 AM
Since we're talking about a college guy getting this job (though it looks like he won't after all), I figured I'd throw Garry Patterson's name out there. He's probably been the most impactful college coach in America the last decade in terms of him being the main reason for his team's success, and he's done it at a school that has literally no reason to be able to compete at the level they're at.

On the other side of the coin, he's not been interested in the NFL before now and probably still isn't. He says he likes TCU and Fort Worth...I can't imagine why but he does. Still...isn't he worth a call? If he's ever going to make the jump, he'll probably never be more ready. If he stays at TCU much longer, he'll stamp himself permenantly as a college coach. That may be what he wants...I don't know. In any case...Elway ought to reach out and at least talk to the guy I think.

Smiling Assassin27
01-06-2011, 09:22 AM
I concur. Dude is very impressive, worth a call.

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 09:39 AM
I don't care enough about TCU to watch them enough to have an opinion one way or the other if his systems would translate to the NFL. Some coaches are extremely successful in college but just don't translate well into the NFL for that reason.

Anyone follow TCU enough to have a detailed opinion?

Missouribronc
01-06-2011, 09:42 AM
Oh hell no.

Smiling Assassin27
01-06-2011, 09:43 AM
I don't care enough about TCU to watch them enough to have an opinion one way or the other if his systems would translate to the NFL. Some coaches are extremely successful in college but just don't translate well into the NFL for that reason.

Anyone follow TCU enough to have a detailed opinion?


kcnative is an actual horned frog...maybe he knows.

tesnyde
01-06-2011, 09:46 AM
Great coach. Im a TCU season tix holder and got my mba and doctorate (BA from CSU). He has done great job growing the program. He's an awesome talent evaluator and knows defence. TCU treats him very well, its rebuilding its stadium, and TCU has become the school for college football in Texas at this time. Its drawing interest from a lot of talented kids. His salary is 2.5m. I think Michigan, rumored to be after him would have a better shot. It'd suck to see him at Michigan and bitter sweet with the Broncos. By the way, Im a Durango native and will say Ft Worth isnt that bad and getting better. Go Frogs.

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 09:58 AM
Great coach. Im a TCU season tix holder and got my mba and doctorate (BA from CSU). He has done great job growing the program. He's an awesome talent evaluator and knows defence. TCU treats him very well, its rebuilding its stadium, and TCU has become the school for college football in Texas at this time. Its drawing interest from a lot of talented kids. His salary is 2.5m. I think Michigan, rumored to be after him would have better shot. I'd suck to see him at Michigan and bitter sweet with the Broncos. By the way, Im a Durango native and will say Ft Worth isnt that bad and getting better. Go Frogs.

But do you think it would translate?

After all, Nick Saban "knows defense" like no other at the collegiate level and he can't coach the pros.

footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 09:58 AM
I don't care enough about TCU to watch them enough to have an opinion one way or the other if his systems would translate to the NFL. Some coaches are extremely successful in college but just don't translate well into the NFL for that reason.

Anyone follow TCU enough to have a detailed opinion?
Why do fans so often assume that a football coach has to be permenantly joined at the hip to whatever offensive system he happens to employ currently? ??? We don't this like this about other professions do we?

Urban Meyer says that if a coach thinks he can't run his offense because he doesn't hae the right personnel, then that coach should be fired because the job of the coach is to fit the strategy to the player's talents, not the reverse. In other words, who cares whether his "systems" would "translate" to the NFL? Here's what kind of "system" translates to the NFL...it's called "hard work". On top of this, the guy's no dummy, he's got a masters in education administration and he'd have no problem adjusting to whatever he needed to do in the NFL. I think he'd also surround himself with some NFL experienced assistants.

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 09:59 AM
I looked up his career and I'd have to say "no". College coaches that have zero experience even as a position coach at the NFL level usually don't have the experience necessary to succeed.

footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 10:00 AM
Great coach. Im a TCU season tix holder and got my mba and doctorate (BA from CSU). He has done great job growing the program. He's an awesome talent evaluator and knows defence. TCU treats him very well, its rebuilding its stadium, and TCU has become the school for college football in Texas at this time. Its drawing interest from a lot of talented kids. His salary is 2.5m. I think Michigan, rumored to be after him would have better shot. I'd suck to see him at Michigan and bitter sweet with the Broncos. By the way, Im a Durango native and will say Ft Worth isnt that bad and getting better. Go Frogs.
And you were doing so well... ;D

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 10:00 AM
Why do fans so often assume that a football coach has to be permenantly joined at the hip to whatever offensive system he happens to employ currently? ??? We don't this like this about other professions do we?

Urban Meyer says that if a coach thinks he can't run his offense because he doesn't hae the right personnel, then that coach should be fired because the job of the coach is to fit the strategy to the player's talents, not the reverse. In other words, who cares whether his "systems" would "translate" to the NFL? Here's what kind of "system" translates to the NFL...it's called "hard work". On top of this, the guy's no dummy, he's got a masters in education administration and he'd have no problem adjusting to whatever he needed to do in the NFL. I think he'd also surround himself with some NFL experienced assistants.

I agree with this, but coaches with that kind of versatility are few and far between.

footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 10:04 AM
I looked up his career and I'd have to say "no". College coaches that have zero experience even as a position coach at the NFL level usually don't have the experience necessary to succeed.
I think this guy's 28 years as a coach and 10 as a major college head coach with a documented history of great success trumps Harbaugh's four years at Stanford and one great season.

As I noted before, I think he'd surround himself with NFL assistants. There is no axioim that says college coaches can't succeed in the NFL, but obviously it takes a special coach to adjust.

Why is Harbaugh the hot ticket when this guy's got a far more impressive record? Is two years with crazy Al really worth that much?

footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 10:08 AM
I agree with this, but coaches with that kind of versatility are few and far between.
I don't think that's true at all. If you look at most college coachs, they've usually coached over time at numerous places, and probably learned multiple systems. You hear this expressed all the time by NFL coaches talking about how they took something from this place and something else from that place...it's all about things like their work ethic, their ability to relate to players and motivate them, being good judges of talent, etc...offensive and defensive systems are nothing but X's and O's...that can be learned and re-learned at will by any coach who devotes time to it just like a player has to devote time to learning a playbook. I think you choose a coach based on personal work history, results and whether you perceive him as a guy who is motivated enough to do what it takes to compete in the NFL....and what system he uses is far and away less important.

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 10:11 AM
I think this guy's 28 years as a coach and 10 as a major college head coach with a documented history of great success trumps Harbaugh's four years at Stanford and one great season.

As I noted before, I think he'd surround himself with NFL assistants. There is no axioim that says college coaches can't succeed in the NFL, but obviously it takes a special coach to adjust.

Why is Harbaugh the hot ticket when this guy's got a far more impressive record? Is two years with crazy Al really worth that much?

I think you're not considering how different the game is from college to pro.

...and I'm not talking just athletically and schematically. I'm talking organizationally, working with professionals instead of pros, managing practices and meetings, etc.

I'm not the biggest Harbaugh guy, but he has 2 years of NFL coaching experience along with a 14 year playing career versus this guy's 0.

Does that mean this couldn't succeed? Absolutely not. But a year or two coaching at the NFL level would do a lot more to make him a viable candidate.

Missouribronc
01-06-2011, 10:13 AM
Why do fans so often assume that a football coach has to be permenantly joined at the hip to whatever offensive system he happens to employ currently? ??? We don't this like this about other professions do we?

Urban Meyer says that if a coach thinks he can't run his offense because he doesn't hae the right personnel, then that coach should be fired because the job of the coach is to fit the strategy to the player's talents, not the reverse. In other words, who cares whether his "systems" would "translate" to the NFL? Here's what kind of "system" translates to the NFL...it's called "hard work". On top of this, the guy's no dummy, he's got a masters in education administration and he'd have no problem adjusting to whatever he needed to do in the NFL. I think he'd also surround himself with some NFL experienced assistants.

The guy who said he was a Horned Frog season ticket holder could confirm this, but I think Patterson came to TCU on the defensive side of the ball. I think he's been innovative in the college game with the 4-2-5 and the 3-3-5, but I'm not 100 percent sure on that.

If he moved to the pros, I'm sure he'd hire a offensive guy to run whatever system that guy wanted to run. I think he's run about three different types of offenses, all the way from the flexbone to the spread at TCU.

bronco610
01-06-2011, 10:18 AM
Have a friend that is a proffesor at TCU and tutors many of the athletes in the program. He is very close to the powers that be in the athletic department and Gary Patterson isnt going anywhere.

footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 10:20 AM
I think you're not considering how different the game is from college to pro.

...and I'm not talking just athletically and schematically. I'm talking organizationally, working with professionals instead of pros, managing practices and meetings, etc.

I'm not the biggest Harbaugh guy, but he has 2 years of NFL coaching experience along with a 14 year playing career versus this guy's 0.

Does that mean this couldn't succeed? Absolutely not. But a year or two coaching at the NFL level would do a lot more to make him a viable candidate.
First of all, NFL playing experience doesn't translate to success any better than college coaching does. If it did, the Niners wouldn't be coach hunting. Second, this idea that the two games, college and pro, are so dramatically different that they are entirely different games...is hogwash. Most NFL coaches have coached in college first. It's still BASICALLY THE SAME GAME. They block, tackle, pass, catch, run pass routes, etc...the same way. Yes the pro game has more complicated offensive and defensive schemes...so what? Have you ever had to learn a new piece of software on your job? The other things you list...organizational stuff like managing practices and meetings...what difference does that make? If you can manage/organize a meeting or practice in college there's no reason you can't do that in the NFL...none what so ever. I'd be more interested in whether a coach can relate to the players at both levels rather than whether he's managed meetings or run practices in the NFL.

footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 10:22 AM
Have a friend that is a proffesor at TCU and tutors many of the athletes in the program. He is very close to the powers that be in the athletic department and Gary Patterson isnt going anywhere.
That's probably true. He's also said it would take a very special situation, meaning he's left the door open.

I'm just saying Elway ought to at least knock on it.

FantomForce
01-06-2011, 10:23 AM
NO I do not want my NFL team to run the 4-2-5 thank you

Pony Boy
01-06-2011, 10:26 AM
He says he likes TCU and Fort Worth...I can't imagine why but he does.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rmeDlfk2aYc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rmeDlfk2aYc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 10:32 AM
First of all, NFL playing experience doesn't translate to success any better than college coaching does. If it did, the Niners wouldn't be coach hunting. Second, this idea that the two games, college and pro, are so dramatically different that they are entirely different games...is hogwash. Most NFL coaches have coached in college first. It's still BASICALLY THE SAME GAME. They block, tackle, pass, catch, run pass routes, etc...the same way. Yes the pro game has more complicated offensive and defensive schemes...so what? Have you ever had to learn a new piece of software on your job? The other things you list...organizational stuff like managing practices and meetings...what difference does that make? If you can manage/organize a meeting or practice in college there's no reason you can't do that in the NFL...none what so ever. I'd be more interested in whether a coach can relate to the players at both levels rather than whether he's managed meetings or run practices in the NFL.

Wait... when did I call Singletary a good coach?

And are you saying you'd rather have a coach learning on the job instead of being able to hit the ground running?

We just had a guy with NFL experience who still fell flat on his face. It's a ridiculously difficult job, why you'd want to throw more obstacles into the equation is beyond me. If he WANTED to coach the pros then he'd be looking for a coordinator job to make that transition... sorry, that's just how that works.

The last time I can think of that someone dove into the NFL headfirst without any prior experience as a big name collegiate coach was Steve Spurrier... do you have any successful examples?

Obushma
01-06-2011, 10:33 AM
NO I do not want my NFL team to run the 4-2-5 thank you

Was just going to bring this up, I don't think his 4-2-5 philosophy would translate well as a every down defense in the NFL.

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 10:38 AM
Was just going to bring this up, I don't think his 4-2-5 philosophy would translate well as a every down defense in the NFL.

60%+ of NFL snaps are playing in the nickle whether it's a 4-2-5 or a 3-3-5 anyways

Obushma
01-06-2011, 10:40 AM
60%+ of NFL snaps are playing in the nickle whether it's a 4-2-5 or a 3-3-5 anyways

100% of TCU's snaps come out of the 4-2-5. You ready to retool the whole defense?

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 10:46 AM
100% of TCU's snaps come out of the 4-2-5. You ready to retool the whole defense?

1. I don't want the guy.

2. The defense definitely needs to be retooled.

3. We're probably better off in a 4-2-5 Ha!

Obushma
01-06-2011, 10:50 AM
2. The defense definitely needs to be retooled.

Cant argue that.

gunns
01-06-2011, 10:52 AM
I think this guy's 28 years as a coach and 10 as a major college head coach with a documented history of great success trumps Harbaugh's four years at Stanford and one great season.

As I noted before, I think he'd surround himself with NFL assistants. There is no axioim that says college coaches can't succeed in the NFL, but obviously it takes a special coach to adjust.

Why is Harbaugh the hot ticket when this guy's got a far more impressive record? Is two years with crazy Al really worth that much?

Have to agree with this, but also am leery of a guy who's never held a position in the NFL. But damn, that defense that TCU has is awesome. Drooling.

tesnyde
01-06-2011, 11:19 AM
But do you think it would translate?

After all, Nick Saban "knows defense" like no other at the collegiate level and he can't coach the pros.

Honestly, no, and I'd rather
see him as a pro cordinator first. TCU has done well but Patterson has always only been a college guy. I don't see it happening anways. I bet TCU would match up 4m and why would the Broncos pay that much with such a high risk return.

tesnyde
01-06-2011, 11:29 AM
And you were doing so well... ;D

I got a full ride to TCU...i won't complain. Arlington, home of the clownboys, on the other hand is fun to visit and then to leave.

I did get watch the state championship games from a suite there.....sweet. 44000 at high school football games...wow. Thats more than mostofthe bowls.

Beantown Bronco
01-06-2011, 11:50 AM
Our guys already had a tough enough time figuring out that 3+4+4=11

Now you want to throw a 2 and a 5 into the mix?!? Excellent.

footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 12:27 PM
Wait... when did I call Singletary a good coach?
You didn't, but the idea tha playing in the NFL is going to determine success or not is false, and there are many examples of which he is one.

And are you saying you'd rather have a coach learning on the job instead of being able to hit the ground running?
No, I'm saying part of assuming ANY coaching job, from junior high on up, is going to be deciding what offense and defense to fit to the personnel. I fail to get why fans think this is somehow locked into what a coach is able to do. I'd be perfecly comfortable with a head coach who delegates that responsibility to an OC anyway. I don't consider having to utilize a different system than he used in college to be an undo burden on these guys brains. This dude's no dummy...he earned a masters while he was already coaching. For all we know, we won't need our next coach on the field till 2012, and if that's true that leaves a whole year to build a new offense and decide what he wants to run and how it should be run.

We just had a guy with NFL experience who still fell flat on his face. It's a ridiculously difficult job, why you'd want to throw more obstacles into the equation is beyond me. If he WANTED to coach the pros then he'd be looking for a coordinator job to make that transition... sorry, that's just how that works.
That's my point, he had NFL experience and he still failed. He failed because of a lack of maturity, not becaue he didn't have enough exposure to NFL gameplans or coaching. Nobody can argue McDaniels didn't get all the exposure to X's and O's that he needed to be successful. He lacked what a guy like Patterson has in the areas he needed it most...ability to work with people, ability to control his own ego and basic maturity that comes with age and experience. I don't think coaching in the NFL is any more difficult than it is in college in terms of the demands, it's just a diferent kind of demand. In the NFL you're on a bigger, brighter stage, with people in their 20's and 30's or even older and you have fan expectations. But there aren't any four day recruting trips, the need to convince an 18 year old kids dad that you're his best friend, etc...it's a different set of experiences but a great coach is a great coach. I don't look at college experience as a hindrance, I look at things like character, work ethic and personality as being hindrances.

The last time I can think of that someone dove into the NFL headfirst without any prior experience as a big name collegiate coach was Steve Spurrier... do you have any successful examples?
This thread was supposed to be about "since we're discussing college coaches anyway...let's discuss Gary Patterson. I don't want to repeat endlessly the same arguments that have been tossed around in here on this but obviously JJ did it and you mentioned Saban. I don't consider Saban as having had enough time. He went 9-7 his first year and then fell off to 6-10...that's not enough time to evalueate whether he could coach in the NFL or not. In any case...I think I see a few people on the Harbaugh bandwagon that like to use this argument for other coaches in college. I'm just pointing out that if we're going to consider Harbaugh...why not Patterson too? Especially since his resume is much more impressive IMO.

footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 12:31 PM
Our guys already had a tough enough time figuring out that 3+4+4=11

Now you want to throw a 2 and a 5 into the mix?!? Excellent.
Another guy who thinks the title "coach" is limited to people with one track minds. I'm pretty sure if you've got a masters degree, you're capable of finding a way to run a different defense than the one you used to. People with no degrees have to adjust to changing expectations all the time, even those who work at Walmart. Like Meyer said, the job is about matching your scheme to your personnel, not the reverse.

footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 12:34 PM
I got a full ride to TCU...i won't complain. Arlington, home of the clownboys, on the other hand is fun to visit and then to leave.

I did get watch the state championship games from a suite there.....sweet. 44000 at high school football games...wow. Thats more than mostofthe bowls.
Did you go by Walmart accross the street? They never show you on TV that there's a Wallymart store 100 feet from the crown jewel stadium of the NFL...I guess they're embarassed by that for some reason. ;D

footstepsfrom#27
01-06-2011, 12:35 PM
Have to agree with this, but also am leery of a guy who's never held a position in the NFL. But damn, that defense that TCU has is awesome. Drooling.
Are you equally leery of a guy who got his college job through nepotism?

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 12:38 PM
This thread was supposed to be about "since we're discussing college coaches anyway...let's discuss Gary Patterson. I don't want to repeat endlessly the same arguments that have been tossed around in here on this but obviously JJ did it and you mentioned Saban. I don't consider Saban as having had enough time. He went 9-7 his first year and then fell off to 6-10...that's not enough time to evalueate whether he could coach in the NFL or not. In any case...I think I see a few people on the Harbaugh bandwagon that like to use this argument for other coaches in college. I'm just pointing out that if we're going to consider Harbaugh...why not Patterson too? Especially since his resume is much more impressive IMO.

Saban spent 4 years as an NFL DC in Cleveland. JJ is a pretty stellar supporting example though.

Can you name more? Because that seems to be an extreme outlier to the trend.

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 12:39 PM
Are you equally leery of a guy who got his college job through nepotism?

I am.

FantomForce
01-06-2011, 01:05 PM
June Jones, run and shoot kicks a$$, just look at what he has done at SMU. Oh please tell me we are flying to Dallas to interview him... Just sayin/SARCASM

txtebow
01-06-2011, 01:37 PM
the 4-2-5 would REEK havoc in the NFL!!! we have tried the 3-4 and 4-3 the last few years and have had no luck--so why not?

Beantown Bronco
01-06-2011, 02:00 PM
Another guy who thinks the title "coach" is limited to people with one track minds. I'm pretty sure if you've got a masters degree, you're capable of finding a way to run a different defense than the one you used to. People with no degrees have to adjust to changing expectations all the time, even those who work at Walmart. Like Meyer said, the job is about matching your scheme to your personnel, not the reverse.

I was obviously making a joke about the number of times we had either too many men or too few men on the field this year on defense. Sorry it was lost on you.

footstepsfrom#27
01-07-2011, 01:57 AM
Saban spent 4 years as an NFL DC in Cleveland. JJ is a pretty stellar supporting example though.

Can you name more? Because that seems to be an extreme outlier to the trend.
How soon they forget... ;D

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/E7AB19B5-4A01-49D8-9DEE-06E9E86CBEDC/U1738234.jpg