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View Full Version : So who put the brakes on the Champ Bailey deal?


Taco John
01-06-2011, 01:12 AM
I'm looking forward to having this question uncovered. I'm hoping in all the haze of the new era, we find out where this got hung up and what is being done to rectify this situation. Champ is an important piece of this franchise.

Bronco Yoda
01-06-2011, 01:24 AM
I agree. Should be interesting.

cutthemdown
01-06-2011, 01:30 AM
We have to keep Champ.

epicSocialism4tw
01-06-2011, 01:43 AM
Champ is an all-time Bronco. I hope he retires here.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
01-06-2011, 01:53 AM
but does champ wanna be here while we rebuild or does he really wanna move on its not like hes gonna come out and say oh my god please oh please get me out of here i want a ring

epicSocialism4tw
01-06-2011, 01:58 AM
but does champ wanna be here while we rebuild or does he really wanna move on its not like hes gonna come out and say oh my god please oh please get me out of here i want a ring

From his last interview on denverbroncos.com, it sounded like he wants to be here as his first choice. He did qualify that a little, but it sounded like he'd be committed to the Broncos if they re-upped the roster and gave him reasonable pay.

tsiguy96
01-06-2011, 03:23 AM
absolutely had to come from up top, it was already reported that bowlen and ellis put the brakes on it, from the denver post. someone even found the link again yesterday.

Old Dude
01-06-2011, 07:50 AM
It could have been something as simple as uncertainty about the 2011 labor negotiations. Which still aren't settled.

Dagmar
01-06-2011, 07:57 AM
absolutely had to come from up top, it was already reported that bowlen and ellis put the brakes on it, from the denver post. someone even found the link again yesterday.

Hold on bro, we haven't decided if we can blame McDaniels for this yet. That's the priority.

(McDaniels caused the holocaust)

TonyR
01-06-2011, 08:02 AM
Is there any doubt that Bowlen and/or Ellis made the call? Who else could it have possibly been?

fountelway
01-06-2011, 08:02 AM
Woody says it was McDaniels. From his mailbag.

"Josh McDaniels was responsible for pulling the offer off the table. Josh McDaniels is, of course, gone. I believe sincerely the Broncos will go back to the bargaining table with Champ; he will give them a hometown discount because he does love living here, and all will get this done."


Read more: Woody's Mailbag: Broncos fans are worrying about Champ Bailey - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17020984#ixzz1AGeYyP1d) http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17020984#ixzz1AGeYyP1d
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

bowtown
01-06-2011, 08:03 AM
It could have been something as simple as uncertainty about the 2011 labor negotiations. Which still aren't settled.

It's almost certainly this.

TonyR
01-06-2011, 08:07 AM
Woody says it was McDaniels.

Good find. Possible I suppose but I find that hard to believe. Why would McD be involved in contract negotiations and what motivation would he have to not want to pay Champ? It's not his money. And if Bowlen/Ellis allowed McDaniels to have this kind of say then this organization might be in bigger trouble than we think.

cmhargrove
01-06-2011, 08:21 AM
Good find. Possible I suppose but I find that hard to believe. Why would McD be involved in contract negotiations and what motivation would he have to not want to pay Champ? It's not his money. And if Bowlen/Ellis allowed McDaniels to have this kind of say then this organization might be in bigger trouble than we think.

Its kind of the "Patriot Way." Belichik would try to find a way to trade him for two second rounders rather than pay him. As long as you can make good with those picks, its not a bad theory. However, if you bomb on the picks....

BroncosMT
01-06-2011, 08:24 AM
[QUOTE=fountelway;3073039]Woody says it was McDaniels. From his mailbag.
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]
"Josh McDaniels was responsible for pulling the offer off the table. Josh McDaniels is, of course, gone. I believe sincerely the Broncos will go back to the bargaining table with Champ; he will give them a hometown discount because he does love living here, and all will get this done."


When I read that this morning along with listening to the interview on KOA....it truly makes me wonder what major damage McD has really done! Makes me want to light his face on fire and put it out with a fork!!!

TonyR
01-06-2011, 08:28 AM
I don't know, if it's a simple as "Josh McD pulled the contract off the table" why wouldn't they have just put it back on the table the day he was fired? I think there's got to be more to the story than just McD. And if Bowlen/Ellis disagreed at the time they certainly had the power to overrule McDaniels.

Many want to believe that most of the problems were swept out the door along with McDaniels. I think we also need to consider those who let him in the door in the first place.

Likwid Kerruj
01-06-2011, 08:31 AM
First initial "J", last initial "M."

Missouribronc
01-06-2011, 08:32 AM
Woody says it was McDaniels. From his mailbag.

"Josh McDaniels was responsible for pulling the offer off the table. Josh McDaniels is, of course, gone. I believe sincerely the Broncos will go back to the bargaining table with Champ; he will give them a hometown discount because he does love living here, and all will get this done."


Read more: Woody's Mailbag: Broncos fans are worrying about Champ Bailey - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17020984#ixzz1AGeYyP1d) http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17020984#ixzz1AGeYyP1d
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

I doubt it was only McDaniels. From the day the season ended, the Broncos have gone on this campaign of blaming everything that went wrong in every aspect of the team on McDaniels. It's a PR campaign orchestrated by Ellis to try and win back the fans who hated McDaniels. He's fueling that hate to get fans back on board.

I'm not saying it wasn't McDaniels who did this particular thing, because it certainly could have been. I'm just not buying a lot of this campaign to say McDaniels was working rogue on everything that went wrong, and everything that went right (what little that did), was a collaborative, team effort.

TonyR
01-06-2011, 08:35 AM
First initial "J", last initial "M."

Again, if it's that simple why wasn't Champ signed the day McD was fired? Or since? Some of you people need to stop jumping to such simple and convenient conclusions.

Mile High Shack
01-06-2011, 08:35 AM
Its kind of the "Patriot Way." Belichik would try to find a way to trade him for two second rounders rather than pay him. As long as you can make good with those picks, its not a bad theory. However, if you bomb on the picks....

I agree, it might not ALL be JD, but it does stink of a Patriots move, let the old guys move one and get what you can in supplemental picks

Some of it might be worries about the labor situation for sure......

but for some reason, might be my pure hate for Josh McDaniels, that I think he tried to pull a "Patriots Way" on Champ

lostknight
01-06-2011, 08:51 AM
Not sure if I buy this. Wasn't all the press that the front office - not Josh - pulled this contract? Methinks this might have been Xanders,and this again, is Xanders throwing Josh under a bus. (Josh built the bus and sent it careening out of control, so I feel no sympathy for him).

bloodsunday
01-06-2011, 08:56 AM
I still wouldn't pay him for 2 reasons:
1) We have way too many needs to put 10 - 15M in 1 player, particularly a DB
2) Cornerbacks are not all that useful when the QB has 10 seconds to throw the ball.

Champ has reached the point in his career that he needs to find himself a contender that needs the services of play-making CB.

tsiguy96
01-06-2011, 08:59 AM
josh would not negotiate a contract to what i believe they said was 85% done, repeatedly say in the media that he wnats bailey to retire a bronco etc etc, then just change his mind. absolutely no way this was mcdaniels, and its pretty silly to think it was.

Mile High Shack
01-06-2011, 09:01 AM
josh would not negotiate a contract to what i believe they said was 85% done, repeatedly say in the media that he wnats bailey to retire a bronco etc etc, then just change his mind. absolutely no way this was mcdaniels, and its pretty silly to think it was.

and Josh has always been an honest type of guy too huh :wiggle:

Beantown Bronco
01-06-2011, 09:03 AM
It's obvious the owners are colluding as a result of the pending lockout. At least two have already come out and literally said that as of some defined date during the season they decided to put a hold on all new contracts. Obviously, Bowlen is going along with it.

Seriously, find me a list of players around the league that have signed an extension in the last month or two. Good luck.

tsiguy96
01-06-2011, 09:04 AM
and Josh has always been an honest type of guy too huh :wiggle:

not saying that, just saying that there is zero reason for josh to pull this deal, it literally doesnt make sense to NOT lock up one of your best players long term, even if you intend to trade them. he and xanders negotiated the deal to near completion then it got pulled, which at the time was being declared by ellis and bowlen, but now they are trying to say mcdaniels stopped the deal? its not his money, why would he stop it?

RaiderH8r
01-06-2011, 09:08 AM
It's obvious the owners are colluding as a result of the pending lockout. At least two have already come out and literally said that as of some defined date during the season they decided to put a hold on all new contracts. Obviously, Bowlen is going along with it.

Seriously, find me a list of players around the league that have signed an extension in the last month or two. Good luck.

Shawne Merriman jumps to mind but Buffalo is a bunch of idiots.

I don't know if it is collusion (nor am I saying it isn't) but from a business standpoint big contracts when the CBA is in doubt is just too much risk exposure in an environment of uncertainty.

When they pulled the deal off the table that was the day a lockout was confirmed as a near certainty in my mind.

uplink
01-06-2011, 09:18 AM
money on Champ is well spent, it is a relatively sure thing the broncos will get an above average if not blue chip starter with a good attitude etc. He also is usually healthy enough to play, seems the great players avoid injuries.

spending the money on other players would not be such a sure thing. Smart to resign him as soon as possible.

baja
01-06-2011, 09:23 AM
josh would not negotiate a contract to what i believe they said was 85% done, repeatedly say in the media that he wants bailey to retire a bronco etc etc, then just change his mind. absolutely no way this was mcdaniels, and its pretty silly to think it was.

It is convenient for people to now to blame everything bad on McD but I agree with you I think josh is the one that wanted to sign Champ. He may have over stepped his authority with offering the contract without running it by Bowlen, that would explain the withdraw. May have have been one of the issues that eventually got him fired and one of the issues that caused Elway to say he was going to "protect" the Broncos. Looking more and more like Josh ran rough shod over the Broncos doing what ever he wanted. Given the nature of Bowlen he went along for a while until he realized he had a monster on his hands and acted fast when he finally realized what was going on. Pat should have reigned Josh in a long time ago but he was used to Shanny running everything and let josh continue in the same fashion. Pat appears to be not as decisive as he needs to be thus he is bring in Elway who he trusts and respects the opinion of to look after the interests of the Broncos. BTW what does this say about Joe Ellis?

Merlin
01-06-2011, 09:27 AM
It's obvious the owners are colluding as a result of the pending lockout.
I don't know if it is obvious, but I generally agree with the sentiment.

CEH
01-06-2011, 09:28 AM
I think the main issue was on the back end with his age even at safety there are no 35/36 year old DBs making what Champ will be making in the last two years of a 4 year deal

That will have to be reevaulated becuase it's pretty much a given Champ will be moved to safety at some point

gyldenlove
01-06-2011, 09:28 AM
It's obvious the owners are colluding as a result of the pending lockout. At least two have already come out and literally said that as of some defined date during the season they decided to put a hold on all new contracts. Obviously, Bowlen is going along with it.

Seriously, find me a list of players around the league that have signed an extension in the last month or two. Good luck.

That is pretty standard, very few teams sign extensions for players down the stretch. In a normal league year the number of significant extensions during the tail end of november, december and january would trend to 0. The only contract extension I can think of is Mike Williams in Seattle who got 3 years at 12 mill.

Right now it seems like conservative business management as much as collusion. If you are not sure there will be a season played in 2011 and under what salary circumstances that will happen you don't want to sign yourself to a big contract that could end up hamstringing you in the long run.

montrose
01-06-2011, 09:33 AM
Woody's article, along with yesterday's comments, lead me to believe everything's going to move forward burying Josh for everything that's gone wrong the last few years and crediting the organization for things they like...

Josh didn't communicate with the fanbase, Josh pulled Champ's deal, Josh made moves without consulting others Josh it was a one-man show, yada-yada... but WE all as an organization loved Tim Tebow and WE would all do it all over again! :wiggle:

Cito Pelon
01-06-2011, 09:42 AM
I don't know, if it's a simple as "Josh McD pulled the contract off the table" why wouldn't they have just put it back on the table the day he was fired? I think there's got to be more to the story than just McD. And if Bowlen/Ellis disagreed at the time they certainly had the power to overrule McDaniels.

Many want to believe that most of the problems were swept out the door along with McDaniels. I think we also need to consider those who let him in the door in the first place.

I suppose it's possible Josh picked up the phone, called Champ's agent without anybody else knowing beforehand, and told him the offer is off the table. Josh had a real bunker mentality thing going the last few months on the job, methinks. It was him against the world.

However - as you said, why wasn't Josh overruled if that was the case? It doesn't make sense what Woody said.

bowtown
01-06-2011, 09:50 AM
It doesn't make sense what Woody said.

That should be the footnote at the bottom of every column that he writes.

Cito Pelon
01-06-2011, 09:51 AM
Shawne Merriman jumps to mind but Buffalo is a bunch of idiots.

I don't know if it is collusion (nor am I saying it isn't) but from a business standpoint big contracts when the CBA is in doubt is just too much risk exposure in an environment of uncertainty.

When they pulled the deal off the table that was the day a lockout was confirmed as a near certainty in my mind.

Wasn't part of the contract language that Champ wouldn't be paid until the 2011 season officially started?

Pulling the contract was a real head-scratcher. I don't know wtf has been going on in Dove Valley, major power struggles going on, seems to me.

SoDak DM
01-06-2011, 09:58 AM
It's obvious the owners are colluding as a result of the pending lockout. At least two have already come out and literally said that as of some defined date during the season they decided to put a hold on all new contracts. Obviously, Bowlen is going along with it.

Seriously, find me a list of players around the league that have signed an extension in the last month or two. Good luck.

So 2 unidentified owners, neither of whom is named Pat Bowlen, have off the record stated they quit extending contracts partway through the last season, and that's why we haven't extended Champ's contract? How is that so definitively "obvious"?

Paranoid much?

vancejohnson82
01-06-2011, 09:58 AM
That is pretty standard, very few teams sign extensions for players down the stretch. In a normal league year the number of significant extensions during the tail end of november, december and january would trend to 0. The only contract extension I can think of is Mike Williams in Seattle who got 3 years at 12 mill.

Right now it seems like conservative business management as much as collusion. If you are not sure there will be a season played in 2011 and under what salary circumstances that will happen you don't want to sign yourself to a big contract that could end up hamstringing you in the long run.

Didn't we give Orton an extension around the same time?

RaiderH8r
01-06-2011, 10:11 AM
Wasn't part of the contract language that Champ wouldn't be paid until the 2011 season officially started?

Pulling the contract was a real head-scratcher. I don't know wtf has been going on in Dove Valley, major power struggles going on, seems to me.

I can't speak to the payment comment, I just don't know. However, If I'm Champ's agent (or even Champ) I don't think I would bite on such a provision.

That said, I completely agree that something that has never been an issue for our organization is popping up in Dove Valley. A level of disarray and a sense that nobody is steering the ship in a cogent fashion. We're just not used to this.

However, just when I thought we were in the doldrums Al Davis comes along and sucks hard and fires the coach just when he finally seems to be getting his feet under him. Hired on a whim because nobody else would work for Davis, Cable finally gets the ship going in the right direction and gets canned. Man, I just f'ing love Al Davis.

Cito Pelon
01-06-2011, 10:16 AM
It is convenient for people to now to blame everything bad on McD but I agree with you I think josh is the one that wanted to sign Champ. He may have over stepped his authority with offering the contract without running it by Bowlen, that would explain the withdraw. May have have been one of the issues that eventually got him fired and one of the issues that caused Elway to say he was going to "protect" the Broncos. Looking more and more like Josh ran rough shod over the Broncos doing what ever he wanted. Given the nature of Bowlen he went along for a while until he realized he had a monster on his hands and acted fast when he finally realized what was going on. Pat should have reigned Josh in a long time ago but he was used to Shanny running everything and let josh continue in the same fashion. Pat appears to be not as decisive as he needs to be thus he is bring in Elway who he trusts and respects the opinion of to look after the interests of the Broncos. BTW what does this say about Joe Ellis?

That's a good point. Woody may have been correct that Josh pulled the deal, but didn't mention that Ellis was pissed the deal was even started in the first place, and ordered Josh to pull the deal.

What does it say about Joe Ellis, indeed.

Beantown Bronco
01-06-2011, 10:18 AM
So 2 unidentified owners, neither of whom is named Pat Bowlen, have off the record stated they quit extending contracts partway through the last season, and that's why we haven't extended Champ's contract? How is that so definitively "obvious"?

Paranoid much?

It was ON the record, not off. They were quoted. It wasn't some "anonymous source" BS.

SoDak DM
01-06-2011, 10:43 AM
It was ON the record, not off. They were quoted. It wasn't some "anonymous source" BS.

Without any names it was difficult to tell. Regardless, two owners doesn't make a league0-wide conspiracy. And there are no correlating facts supporting that as the reason Champ wasn't given a contract. Interesting speculation, but doubtful with everything else that was going on with McD/Joe Ellis and the like.

Beantown Bronco
01-06-2011, 10:49 AM
Without any names it was difficult to tell. Regardless, two owners doesn't make a league0-wide conspiracy.

It doesn't MAKE it. But it is pretty damning IMO.

And there are no correlating facts supporting that as the reason Champ wasn't given a contract.

No correlating facts? How about "the fact" that the offer was pulled about a week after the player's unions representing approximately 10 different NFL teams voted to decertify?

schaaf
01-06-2011, 10:50 AM
it was that damn sasquatch.

TheReverend
01-06-2011, 10:51 AM
Woody's article, along with yesterday's comments, lead me to believe everything's going to move forward burying Josh for everything that's gone wrong the last few years and crediting the organization for things they like...

Josh didn't communicate with the fanbase, Josh pulled Champ's deal, Josh made moves without consulting others Josh it was a one-man show, yada-yada... but WE all as an organization loved Tim Tebow and WE would all do it all over again! :wiggle:

I've noticed the same. I think Josh was in way over his head, but the sheer lack of integrity shown by Xanders and the FO is more than a little disturbing. The CYA policy at Dove Valley is moderately disgusting.

So... is this true, or was this Josh working that same CYA policy way ahead of the curve?:

"He headed up this entire process. He's up there right now," McDaniels said of Xanders. "He's really led to some prospects, organized the draft board, all the scouting trips. He sent the coaches on a few visits."

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_12223334?source=pkg

SoDak DM
01-06-2011, 11:47 AM
It doesn't MAKE it. But it is pretty damning IMO.



No correlating facts? How about "the fact" that the offer was pulled about a week after the player's unions representing approximately 10 different NFL teams voted to decertify?

I don't want to sound snarky explaining the difference between fact and assumption...but I really don't know what else to say. What you're presenting is the opposite of fact...which, you are entitled to your opinion. Its just funny that you present it as fact and then get upset if someone disagrees with your opinion.