PDA

View Full Version : Xanders (but really Elway) is the GM


Jesterhole
01-05-2011, 07:13 AM
Looks like it is official. Would have loved to bring in a strong GM type from the outside and moved on from Xanders. He title is kind of meaningless since he answers to Elway anyway. Hope he and Elway make a good team. :strong:


http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_17012532

At 6 p.m. Tuesday, Elway and Joe Ellis, the Broncos' chief operating officer, officially finalized the contract making Elway the team's executive vice president of football operations.

"This is a great day in the history of the Denver Broncos — for (owner) Pat Bowlen, the entire organization and all the fans of the Broncos," Ellis said at meeting's end.

--------

What's going on is that the Broncos already have decided that Brian Xanders will have the job, not just the title, of general manager, "and he will be responsible for most of the personnel decisions, the scouting, the salary cap, the draft," Elway said. "He and I have met for several hours over the past couple of weeks, and I'm impressed by his knowledge, his work ethic, his background, his dedication to winning and his love for the Broncos."

The next critical item of Broncos business is hiring a new coach. Elway, Xanders, Bowlen and Ellis will interview the candidates, "and we'll come to a consensus," Elway said. "We'll get it done in the next week or two. Brian has done the research over the past 15 years and found that the difference between successful offensive and defensive hires is about 2 percent, so we're not committed one way or the other. We will hire someone who has been a coach in the league or someone who has long been associated with pro football as a coordinator or a strong coach — someone who will feel as strongly about the Broncos as we do."

tsiguy96
01-05-2011, 07:14 AM
so they just said that xanders will be the real GM with his own personnel decisions etc, but you chime in with your own bs "its really elway anyway" when every single indication thus far has shown elway is NOT in that type of role...

Jesterhole
01-05-2011, 07:17 AM
so they just said that xanders will be the real GM with his own personnel decisions etc, but you chime in with your own bs "its really elway anyway" when every single indication thus far has shown elway is NOT in that type of role...

Yeah, it's called a discussion board...

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 07:18 AM
Elway isn't the GM.

And at least they are doing things in the right order this time.

jhns
01-05-2011, 07:19 AM
so they just said that xanders will be the real GM with his own personnel decisions etc, but you chime in with your own bs "its really elway anyway" when every single indication thus far has shown elway is NOT in that type of role...

It isn't like it is random speculation. We always have had GM's "in charge of personnel". Xanders was the last two seasons. You cried like this when people pointed out McDaniels was really in charge because the team said they both made the decisions... Guess what came out after the firing? McDaniels was in charge (which was very obvious to anyone with a brain)....

You should learn someday that what they say isn't always true. Are you really that new of a fan?

tsiguy96
01-05-2011, 07:20 AM
Elway isn't the GM.

And at least they are doing things in the right order this time.

to me it seems like elway and ellis will be splitting duties this time around. helping with football decisions such as the coach and contracts etc, but not picking players

Jesterhole
01-05-2011, 07:21 AM
Elway isn't the GM.

Well, Xanders was supposed to assume this same role when McDaniels came in, but my impression is that he got run over by a 32 year old kid and got his power stolen.

I doubt that giving him an official title will change anything but his business card. If Elway tells Xanders to do something, it'll happen.

baja
01-05-2011, 07:22 AM
The fact that the kept Xanders indicates to me that Josh's dismissal was more about the video taping than anything else.

oubronco
01-05-2011, 07:23 AM
So they are basically saying it won't be Harbaugh

tsiguy96
01-05-2011, 07:24 AM
Well, Xanders was supposed to assume this same role when McDaniels came in, but my impression is that he got run over by a 32 year old kid and got his power stolen.

I doubt that giving him an official title will change anything but his business card. If Elway tells Xanders to do something, it'll happen.

mcdaniels got the same power system thats been in denver since bowlen has been here. xanders job was in line with that of ted sundquist.

and from schefter and DB on twitter just now:
AdamSchefter

John Elway introduced as Broncos new Exec. VP of Football Ops today. Joe Ellis' title changed to President - with ultimate responsibility.

Denver_Broncos

The Broncos have named John Elway as the team's Executive Vice President of Football Operations and appoint Joe Ellis to Team President. #fb

Denver_Broncos

Elway will oversee the head coach and GM Brian Xanders. Elway will also lead the team's head coaching search. #fb

good spot for him to be at im thinking.

jhns
01-05-2011, 07:25 AM
The fact that the kept Xanders indicates to me that Josh's dismissal was more about the video taping than anything else.

Or he was in charge and he was the one the f'ed the team. Are you really going to claim Xanders was making decisions?

Jesterhole
01-05-2011, 07:25 AM
The fact that the kept Xanders indicates to me that Josh's dismissal was more about the video taping than anything else.

Not a bad point, but I think Xanders is probably a great organizer, someone with a bunch of connections that can run a scouting program, compile data for the draft, etc. People like him and respect him because he works hard and plays along.

In the end, I think all the 'big calls' are going to need to get Elway's stamp on them.

jhns
01-05-2011, 07:26 AM
The fact that they kept Xanders when Shanahan was fired tells me that Shanahan was probably fired for hitting on Bowlens wife, not for how the team looked.

baja
01-05-2011, 07:27 AM
So they are basically saying it won't be Harbaugh

LOL That's what I thought too when I read that.

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 07:31 AM
AdamSchefter

John Elway introduced as Broncos new Exec. VP of Football Ops today. Joe Ellis' title changed to President - with ultimate responsibility.

Denver_Broncos

The Broncos have named John Elway as the team's Executive Vice President of Football Operations and appoint Joe Ellis to Team President. #fb

Denver_Broncos

Elway will oversee the head coach and GM Brian Xanders. Elway will also lead the team's head coaching search. #fb

I'm gonna go ahead and toot my own horn here.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3068220&postcount=67

I think the Xanders ship has sailed, and Elway will be the god of all thing Broncos.I still am not sold on that. Aside from the fact Elway disqualified himself, which no one seems to consider, I still think Elway will be executive VP of football operations and chair a committee that selects either the GM or the coach.

My hope is that Elway and Bowlen will announce a GM relatively soon and all of them will have input in selecting the coach.

TonyR
01-05-2011, 07:32 AM
Matt Millen: I hope John Elway does better than I did
Posted by Michael David Smith on January 5, 2011, 8:45 AM EST

As a former player with no personnel experience getting the keys to an NFL franchise, John Elway is in exclusive company. There’s really only one recent example of the same thing happening, and that was Matt Millen’s tenure running the Detroit Lions.

Broncos fans, be afraid. Be very afraid.

Mike Klis of the Denver Post contacted Millen to ask about his experiences, and Millen acknowledged that the Broncos had better hope Elway is a whole lot better than he was.

“I hope John does better than I did, because I stunk at it,” Millen said.

Unlike Ozzie Newsome, a Hall of Fame player who worked his way up the personnel ladder before becoming G.M. of the Ravens, Elway and Millen got their jobs without having to learn the ropes first, although Elway does have a little more experience than Millen did, since Elway ran an Arena Football team. Millen said Elway may be surprised by what the job entails.

“There’s a misconception about the job,” Millen said. “It’s less about the game of football. It’s less about X’s and O’s. It’s less about personnel decisions. It’s a job about managing people. It’s about building a consensus when you pick the right head coach. You can’t go in and be this football czar and say this is how it’s going to work. If you pick somebody that a coach doesn’t like and doesn’t coach, that’s a bad situation.”

One difference between Elway and Millen is where they’re starting: Millen took over a Lions team that had gone 9-7 the previous season and promptly ran them into the ground. Elway is taking over a 4-12 Broncos team that has nowhere to go but up.

And Millen does believe Elway can turn the Broncos around.

“Absolutely,” Millen said. “John has a shot to be successful.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/05/matt-millen-i-hope-john-elway-does-better-than-i-did/

TheReverend
01-05-2011, 07:40 AM
I don't like this.

As much credit as people want to pour on Mularkey here, look at the job that Dimitroff did setting him and Smith up for success in 2008. Those moves did not include retaining Xanders

bowtown
01-05-2011, 07:40 AM
Matt Millen: I hope John Elway does better than I did
Posted by Michael David Smith on January 5, 2011, 8:45 AM EST

As a former player with no personnel experience getting the keys to an NFL franchise, John Elway is in exclusive company. There’s really only one recent example of the same thing happening, and that was Matt Millen’s tenure running the Detroit Lions.

Broncos fans, be afraid. Be very afraid.

Mike Klis of the Denver Post contacted Millen to ask about his experiences, and Millen acknowledged that the Broncos had better hope Elway is a whole lot better than he was.

“I hope John does better than I did, because I stunk at it,” Millen said.

Unlike Ozzie Newsome, a Hall of Fame player who worked his way up the personnel ladder before becoming G.M. of the Ravens, Elway and Millen got their jobs without having to learn the ropes first, although Elway does have a little more experience than Millen did, since Elway ran an Arena Football team. Millen said Elway may be surprised by what the job entails.

“There’s a misconception about the job,” Millen said. “It’s less about the game of football. It’s less about X’s and O’s. It’s less about personnel decisions. It’s a job about managing people. It’s about building a consensus when you pick the right head coach. You can’t go in and be this football czar and say this is how it’s going to work. If you pick somebody that a coach doesn’t like and doesn’t coach, that’s a bad situation.”

One difference between Elway and Millen is where they’re starting: Millen took over a Lions team that had gone 9-7 the previous season and promptly ran them into the ground. Elway is taking over a 4-12 Broncos team that has nowhere to go but up.

And Millen does believe Elway can turn the Broncos around.

“Absolutely,” Millen said. “John has a shot to be successful.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/05/matt-millen-i-hope-john-elway-does-better-than-i-did/

If I'm a Lion's fan I would march down to Millen's house and string the guy up for those quotes. After putting that team through years of misery, and then extending his contract, at the end he comes out and admits he knows he sucked at it? What a POS.

Man-Goblin
01-05-2011, 07:43 AM
Okay, I would have preferred for them to interview other GM candidates, but what's done is done. I'm on board. Get it done, guys.

A few things:

Pat Bowlen is no longer president, so he will have to change his Custom User Title before the next time he posts here.

I agree Elway's stance on Tebow. They like what they see but no long term commitment until they see more.

I like the list of coaches they are contacting for interviews. But if the Saints go on a run, which I think they will, they'll have to wait more than the 2 weeks Elway spoke about to talk with him. I hope they don't miss out on some good candidates in the meantime.

Lastly, I have nothing but good memories from Elway. I really, really want him to succeed. I'm not sure if it's possible for him to tarnish his legacy, but if it's an epic failure I hope both sides will recognize it quickly and be able to move on.

meangene
01-05-2011, 07:45 AM
As far as I am concerned, retaining and, in essence, promoting Xanders, is strike one of the new "Elway regime". They best not miss on the new coach.

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 07:50 AM
Well, Xanders was supposed to assume this same role when McDaniels came in, but my impression is that he got run over by a 32 year old kid and got his power stolen.

I doubt that giving him an official title will change anything but his business card. If Elway tells Xanders to do something, it'll happen.

You should take your opinion out of the thread title. Elway isn't "really" the GM just because Xanders answers to him. Just as Bowlen wasn't "really" our GM because everyone answers to him. And your assumption that Xanders is going to be pushed around is assuming that Elway even wants his hands in everything, which he does not.

TheReverend
01-05-2011, 07:52 AM
You should take your opinion out of the thread title. Elway isn't "really" the GM just because Xanders answers to him. Just as Bowlen wasn't "really" our GM because everyone answers to him. And your assumption that Xanders is going to be pushed around is assuming that Elway even wants his hands in everything, which he does not.

I think it's still too early to say we know and understand the power structure and what each person's duties will entail. In fact, it'll probably take us years for that dynamic to come open, if ever.

lostknight
01-05-2011, 07:56 AM
Gah. This doesn't bode well. Maybe xanders was worth keeping, but I put the firing of Mike Shanahan, as well as the hiring of Josh McDaniels at Ellis's feet. It's debatable if Shanahan was the right decision, but McDaniels was not for a moment correct.

Dagmar
01-05-2011, 07:58 AM
You should take your opinion out of the thread title. Elway isn't "really" the GM just because Xanders answers to him. Just as Bowlen wasn't "really" our GM because everyone answers to him. And your assumption that Xanders is going to be pushed around is assuming that Elway even wants his hands in everything, which he does not.

This is the thread where the main discussion is to occur, he really should edit that title. Seems like it's another one those situations where he is posting it in every thread possible so lemmings think his opinion is fact. Lord.

bronco0608
01-05-2011, 07:59 AM
If I'm a Lion's fan I would march down to Millen's house and string the guy up for those quotes. After putting that team through years of misery, and then extending his contract, at the end he comes out and admits he knows he sucked at it? What a POS.

What do you think he was suppose to say, "I was awesome at it?"

I think he was just stating a clear fact looking back on his tenure with the lions.

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 08:01 AM
I think it's still too early to say we know and understand the power structure and what each person's duties will entail. In fact, it'll probably take us years for that dynamic to come open, if ever.

That's all the more reason to not announce personal assumptions. All we know is Xanders is the official GM and he will be given total control over all personnel decisions and report to Elway. That doesn't make Elway "really" the GM.

Inkana7
01-05-2011, 08:02 AM
That's a pretty good, fairly revealing article. Regardless of who's doing what, change is always exciting. We're starting with a blank slate, and anything is possible.

bowtown
01-05-2011, 08:08 AM
I think it's still too early to say we know and understand the power structure and what each person's duties will entail. In fact, it'll probably take us years for that dynamic to come open, if ever.

Pretty sure at some point it will come out that Ellis poured acid into their brains, along with Pat's and is running them all from a super secret military remote control system given to him by his cousin.

orinjkrush
01-05-2011, 08:09 AM
The next critical item of Broncos business is hiring a new coach. Elway, Xanders, Bowlen and Ellis will interview the candidates, "and we'll come to a consensus," Elway said. "We'll get it done in the next week or two. Brian has done the research over the past 15 years and found that the difference between successful offensive and defensive hires is about 2 percent, so we're not committed one way or the other. We will hire someone who has been a coach in the league or someone who has long been associated with pro football as a coordinator or a strong coach — someone who will feel as strongly about the Broncos as we do."

ok, Rev. what do you think of this stat?

mkporter
01-05-2011, 08:10 AM
I'm gonna go ahead and toot my own horn here.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3068220&postcount=67

Oh yeah, well I'm going to toot mine louder! (although there are a couple here who could pull out even louder horns, as I wasn't first):

12/3/10:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3028504&postcount=77

I'm not sure where you got the idea that people want him to be a GM or something like that. Maybe some do. John's ideal role, IMO, on the team would essentially be the VP of Football Operations, which was one of Shanny's titles, and is unoccupied right now. In this role he would be Josh's boss, and Xander's boss as well. He wouldn't necessarily dictate personnel and schemes, but he would be able to identify and improve upon weaknesses in the football organization (maybe reduce Josh's role, or find appropriate personnel to augment the FO, for instance). Being who he is, of course, it would be criminal not to involve him in the marketing organization as well.


:strong:

Beantown Bronco
01-05-2011, 08:13 AM
The next critical item of Broncos business is hiring a new coach. Elway, Xanders, Bowlen and Ellis will interview the candidates, "and we'll come to a consensus," Elway said. "We'll get it done in the next week or two. Brian has done the research over the past 15 years and found that the difference between successful offensive and defensive hires is about 2 percent, so we're not committed one way or the other. We will hire someone who has been a coach in the league or someone who has long been associated with pro football as a coordinator or a strong coach — someone who will feel as strongly about the Broncos as we do."

ok, Rev. what do you think of this stat?

Personally, I'd like to know what criteria he used to determine whether the hire was "successful" or not.

tsiguy96
01-05-2011, 08:15 AM
AlbertBreer
Spoke w/someone in Denver on Elway this week, thght this was important line: "He knows what he doesn't know..." meaning Elway will delegate.

tsiguy96
01-05-2011, 08:15 AM
Personally, I'd like to know what criteria he used to determine whether the hire was "successful" or not.

doesnt matter as long as the criteria to measure each side was the same.

Mile High Shack
01-05-2011, 08:16 AM
Xanders is the GM, I don't know why people would assume otherwise

Elway isn't some dumb ignorant douche like Matt Millen, he knows his limitations I'm sure....if Xanders sucks it up this year, I'm sure we will get another GM.

assumptions are assume aren't they?

tsiguy96
01-05-2011, 08:16 AM
I don't like this.

As much credit as people want to pour on Mularkey here, look at the job that Dimitroff did setting him and Smith up for success in 2008. Those moves did not include retaining Xanders

they tried to, but xanders knew his ability to move up the ladder in atlanta ended, so he took a job in denver knowing there was more of a chance to move up, and he was right, being the full time GM now.

Cito Pelon
01-05-2011, 08:19 AM
Not a bad point, but I think Xanders is probably a great organizer, someone with a bunch of connections that can run a scouting program, compile data for the draft, etc. People like him and respect him because he works hard and plays along.

In the end, I think all the 'big calls' are going to need to get Elway's stamp on them.

I think if Elway absolutely hates a guy, he probably will veto the deal. But how often will a situation like that come up? Probably not too often. Seems like the way Elway talks that he thinks he has a learning curve and won't butt in too much.

Elway said he will definitely be part of the "forum", but won't try to be the GM.

Pony Boy
01-05-2011, 08:23 AM
That's all the more reason to not announce personal assumptions. All we know is Xanders is the official GM and he will be given total control over all personnel decisions and report to Elway. That doesn't make Elway "really" the GM.

I think we will be able to shed some light on who's in charge once the new HC is announced. Elway definitely has some favorites in the race....

Cito Pelon
01-05-2011, 08:26 AM
I don't like this.

As much credit as people want to pour on Mularkey here, look at the job that Dimitroff did setting him and Smith up for success in 2008. Those moves did not include retaining Xanders

Dmitroff was brought in from outside, is that correct? If so he'd want his own guys.

In any case, Xanders has more experience now.

shakenbake
01-05-2011, 08:44 AM
We will hire someone who has been a coach in the league or someone who has long been associated with pro football as a coordinator or a strong coach — someone who will feel as strongly about the Broncos as we do."

Sounds like Marty Shottenheimer to me!

bronco militia
01-05-2011, 08:45 AM
John's not the GM so what's the big deal Florio?

oh yeah, you still hate the broncos!

Jesterhole
01-05-2011, 09:11 AM
You should take your opinion out of the thread title. Elway isn't "really" the GM just because Xanders answers to him. Just as Bowlen wasn't "really" our GM because everyone answers to him. And your assumption that Xanders is going to be pushed around is assuming that Elway even wants his hands in everything, which he does not.

I think I'll leave my own opinions in my own thread, thanks bro! :welcome:

srphoenix
01-05-2011, 09:11 AM
Its official Elway knows when he has too much in his arms and when to pass it off to others. ;) (watch video below)

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_17015369?source=rss

Jesterhole
01-05-2011, 09:13 AM
This is the thread where the main discussion is to occur, he really should edit that title. Seems like it's another one those situations where he is posting it in every thread possible so lemmings think his opinion is fact. Lord.

lol, I have a fraction of the posts you have, and you want to blame me for over posting?

Start your own non opinion based thread if you want to. I started this thread with a slant on it because it's my take, and I'm reading between the lines. This ain't CNN...

SoCalBronco
01-05-2011, 09:14 AM
Pathetic.

John's hungry, go get him a pizza, Xanders.

meangene
01-05-2011, 09:15 AM
pathetic.

John's hungry, go get him a pizza, xanders.

rofl!

montrose
01-05-2011, 09:19 AM
John arriving for this 1st day on the job:

http://videocenter.denverpost.com/services/player/bcpid934052406?bctid=738598730001

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 09:22 AM
Pathetic.

John's hungry, go get him a pizza, Xanders.

No, Xanders is really the GM this time.

Jesterhole
01-05-2011, 09:22 AM
What I find funny is that people are taking anything the FO says or reports to the paper to the bank. If history is any indication, a strong personality will over rule Xanders, despite his title.

Take this bit from SI.com:

"Not only are new head coach Josh McDaniels and general manager Brian Xanders running a draft for the first time, but also the Broncos' drafts this decade under former coach Mike Shanahan reveal a stunningly disproportionate number of misses...


"Will McDaniels, 32, and Xanders, 37, do better than their predecessor, who had total control over football operations? Perhaps. But former Atlanta executive Ken Herock sounded a trumpet of caution earlier this year in an interview with Jeff Legwold, then of the Rocky Mountain News.

While with the Falcons in 1994, Herock hired Xanders primarily to work with the salary cap. When asked about Xanders in his new position, Herock praised his football background but added: "Brian's never scouted on the road. He doesn't have those experiences going on the road, being at the practices, getting in there and getting to know guys. That's his challenge. He knows the cap, he understands the cap and he knows the technology that's used now to get the job done. His big thing will be to make the call on whether a guy can play or not and that now he has to know it all.
"He has to be on target, and he's got to know everything -- free agency, the draft, the top player in Canada, what you're going to do with the developmental squad, all of it. You have to know what the hell is going on, and just being astute, just knowing the technology can't save you. You have to find players, it's that simple."
Perhaps Xanders will prove to be more than ready for the role. Again, Herock spoke highly of him. But there are no guarantees in the NFL, and the draft is the biggest crapshoot going.

The Broncos have gone out of their way to say the draft will be a collaboration between Xanders and McDaniels, but at the owners meetings last week, McDaniels intimated on multiple occasions that all personnel decisions will run through him. Part of the reason McDaniels got the job (and so much authority) was his stint in New England, where most recently he was the offensive coordinator under Bill Belichick.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jim_trotter/04/03/cutler/index.html#ixzz1AB7kelyb

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 09:27 AM
John arriving for this 1st day on the job:

http://videocenter.denverpost.com/services/player/bcpid934052406?bctid=738598730001

I just watched him take entirely too long to get out of his car and it still makes me excited to watch him.

TheReverend
01-05-2011, 09:28 AM
That's all the more reason to not announce personal assumptions. All we know is Xanders is the official GM and he will be given total control over all personnel decisions and report to Elway. That doesn't make Elway "really" the GM.

Didn't it also come out that Elway has final say on personnel?

And didn't we assume Xanders would be in that role when the Goodman's were fired?

And wasn't that view reinforced when Josh went out of his way to "credit" the 2009 draft to Brian?

Dmitroff was brought in from outside, is that correct? If so he'd want his own guys.

In any case, Xanders has more experience now.

No. You'd want the BEST guys.

Tombstone RJ
01-05-2011, 09:30 AM
I really think Elway is honest when he says he does not want to be the defacto GM and that he simply wants to let Xanders be the GM while he is basically an administrator for Bowlen. Again, I think it is fair to give Xanders a shot at being a real GM while the new HC will simply coach. Elway will be the face of the franchise and be the go between for Bowlen and the football operations.

I'm still not sure why Ellis is needed, but I think this is a step in the right direction.

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 09:35 AM
Didn't it also come out that Elway has final say on personnel?

No.

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 09:38 AM
I really think Elway is honest when he says he does not want to be the defacto GM and that he simply wants to let Xanders be the GM while he is basically an administrator for Bowlen. Again, I think it is fair to give Xanders a shot at being a real GM while the new HC will simply coach. Elway will be the face of the franchise and be the go between for Bowlen and the football operations.

That's my point. The difference between McDaniels and Elway is McDaniels wanted total control and Elway does not. Elway will not be trying to put his hands on everything.

Jesterhole
01-05-2011, 09:47 AM
That's my point. The difference between McDaniels and Elway is McDaniels wanted total control and Elway does not. Elway will not be trying to put his hands on everything.

That is where I think you are wrong. I believe Elway DOES want total control...hell, I think he wants to buy the damn team. This is more of public relations move. You can't name Elway the GM because people would groan and claim crap like Matt Millen and Dan Marino. Instead, since people are already comfortable with Xanders, and because he is probably good at elements of the job, they let him assume the GM title.

In reality, John is going to decide what we do with the #2, who we hire as a coach, the fate of Tim Tebow, and all the big choices that a true GM would normally make.

Man-Goblin
01-05-2011, 09:47 AM
John arriving for this 1st day on the job:

http://videocenter.denverpost.com/services/player/bcpid934052406?bctid=738598730001

That was soooooo TMZ and creepy.

Did anyone catch the code he entered at the gate?

Tombstone RJ
01-05-2011, 09:51 AM
That is where I think you are wrong. I believe Elway DOES want total control...hell, I think he wants to buy the damn team. This is more of public relations move. You can't name Elway the GM because people would groan and claim crap like Matt Millen and Dan Marino. Instead, since people are already comfortable with Xanders, and because he is probably good at elements of the job, they let him assume the GM title.

In reality, John is going to decide what we do with the #2, who we hire as a coach, the fate of Tim Tebow, and all the big choices that a true GM would normally make.

Elway has already stated that he doesn't have the time, nor the energy to be the all encompassing power monger you are making him out to be. In other words, he simply does not want that responsibility. While he does want to see the Broncos do well, he would much rather delegate than be the guy who makes all the decisions.

Elway wants to have a life outside of football, that is what I'm taking from all of this. Yes, he wants to help the Broncos win, but not at the expense of his personal life.

strafen
01-05-2011, 09:53 AM
The fact that the kept Xanders indicates to me that Josh's dismissal was more about the video taping than anything else.I think it pretty much confirms that Mcd was the one in charge of ALL those horrendous personnel decisions.
That's why Xanders is still here, and Josh got canned...
Our worse record in team's history may also clue you in. Don't let that one go past by ya'

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 09:54 AM
That is where I think you are wrong. I believe Elway DOES want total control.

Based on what?

1. He said he doesn't want to be a GM.
2. He said he isn't qualified to be a GM.
3. He hired a GM and gave him power. To what degree he wields it has yet to manifest itself, but officially it appears that Xanders will be "the guy."
4. Why would Xanders agree to being a pizza boy again? He came out saying he wants to be GM and have control and admitted he did not before.
5. Why would the front office go to all this trouble spinning fluff pieces to prop Xanders up as not at fault for the bad draft picks if he was just going to be a puppet again?
6. Other sources are leaking out right now that John really is going to delegate.
7. He didn't have "total" control when he ran the Crush. The dynamic was basically the same as it is now when he was there. There is no history of him meddling.
8. John doesn't want a lot of work. I think he likes the idea of giving input and planning broad philosophies about the team but not having to worry about the day-to-day operations of things. The dude likes being semi-retired and not being bogged down with a real job.

There is nothing to support your idea that he wants "total control."

I do agree that he wouldn't mind being the new owner, but he can do all the above as an owner.

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 09:55 AM
I think it pretty much confirms that Mcd was the one in charge of ALL those horrendous personnel decisions.

Or at least that's what Xanders was able to sell everyone on. We'll see...

Cito Pelon
01-05-2011, 10:29 AM
I really think Elway is honest when he says he does not want to be the defacto GM and that he simply wants to let Xanders be the GM while he is basically an administrator for Bowlen. Again, I think it is fair to give Xanders a shot at being a real GM while the new HC will simply coach. Elway will be the face of the franchise and be the go between for Bowlen and the football operations.

I'm still not sure why Ellis is needed, but I think this is a step in the right direction.

Neither am I. I swear to god, Ellis looked like he was eating glass when he "welcomed" Elway "to the Bronco family" Sunday. I've seen some forced smiles before, and that "welcome" was as phony a welcome as I've ever seen.

Picture Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, or Vladimir Putin "welcoming" more input.

Now I see Ellis has been named team President by Bowlen. Dude's title was Chief Operating Officer before. Bowlen was formerly the team President. I'm curious how this will play out over the next couple of years.

baja
01-05-2011, 10:31 AM
I really think Elway is honest when he says he does not want to be the defacto GM and that he simply wants to let Xanders be the GM while he is basically an administrator for Bowlen. Again, I think it is fair to give Xanders a shot at being a real GM while the new HC will simply coach. Elway will be the face of the franchise and be the go between for Bowlen and the football operations.

I'm still not sure why Ellis is needed, but I think this is a step in the right direction.

Ellis is the puppet master and I bet he doesn't like having Elway around but was forced by Pat to accept the hiring.

Cito Pelon
01-05-2011, 10:35 AM
Elway has already stated that he doesn't have the time, nor the energy to be the all encompassing power monger you are making him out to be. In other words, he simply does not want that responsibility. While he does want to see the Broncos do well, he would much rather delegate than be the guy who makes all the decisions.

Elway wants to have a life outside of football, that is what I'm taking from all of this. Yes, he wants to help the Broncos win, but not at the expense of his personal life.

I'm getting the distinct impression Joe Ellis thinks the same way.

baja
01-05-2011, 10:41 AM
Or at least that's what Xanders was able to sell everyone on. We'll see...

I know you don't like this line of reasoning but it sure smells like Pat Bowlen is the fallen shepherd and the wolves are circling the billion dollar heard.

You will know when the battle for the prize is over when either Elway or Ellis leave.

Cito Pelon
01-05-2011, 10:42 AM
Ellis is the puppet master and I bet he doesn't like having Elway around but was forced by Pat to accept the hiring.

Agreed. Then, after Elway is announced as VP of Football Operations, BAM, next thing you see is Ellis trumps him getting named as the new President of the Broncos.

baja
01-05-2011, 10:46 AM
I think it pretty much confirms that Mcd was the one in charge of ALL those horrendous personnel decisions.
That's why Xanders is still here, and Josh got canned...
Our worse record in team's history may also clue you in. Don't let that one go past by ya'

So you promote the guy that was two weak to stand up to a 31 year old on important decisions you are supposed to sign off on? Good move Pat.

Mile High Shack
01-05-2011, 10:47 AM
So you promote the guy that was two weak to stand up to a 31 year old on important decisions you are supposed to sign off on? Good move Pat.

we are just assuming, but let me join in....I assume they told Xanders to stand down

lookin' glass
01-05-2011, 10:47 AM
That was soooooo TMZ and creepy.

Did anyone catch the code he entered at the gate?

Sure doesn't look like a morning person.

Tombstone RJ
01-05-2011, 10:52 AM
Sure doesn't look like a morning person.

Yah, John ain't an early morning guy... slow as molassas in... hey, what do you know--January!!

lookin' glass
01-05-2011, 11:01 AM
I think Ellis is the Broncos biggest problem. It reeks the same way when the Yorks took over the 49ers. They got rid of Mariucci and brought in Tery Donahue as GM and Erickson as coach. Been downhill ever since. I'm sure McDaniels plan sounded fabulous to Ellis because he's a bean counter/booger roller. But Ellis' ability to see the human element appears to be severely lacking. McDaniels plan was probably very good his ability to execute it didn't work out. I believe Elway wants to help but as long as Ellis is involved I'm thinking there will be problems.

Mr. Elway
01-05-2011, 11:06 AM
I think Ellis is the Broncos biggest problem. It reeks the same way when the Yorks took over the 49ers. They got rid of Mariucci and brought in Tery Donahue as GM and Erickson as coach. Been downhill ever since. I'm sure McDaniels plan sounded fabulous to Ellis because he's a bean counter/booger roller. But Ellis' ability to see the human element appears to be severely lacking. McDaniels plan was probably very good his ability to execute it didn't work out. I believe Elway wants to help but as long as Ellis is involved I'm thinking there will be problems.

I'm pretty sure Ellis and Bowlen realize that, and that's why they hired Elway. Ellis realized he was sold a bill of goods by McD which, despite all good intentions, McD was incapable of pulling off. If Ellis were really the worm-tongued conniving power-monger, then why would he want to hire Elway, who not only has very strong leadership skills, but is also probably the one person Bowlen would not fire before Ellis?

lookin' glass
01-05-2011, 11:18 AM
Perhaps Elway is a Bowlen move more than an Ellis move.

Jesterhole
01-05-2011, 11:21 AM
That's all the more reason to not announce personal assumptions. All we know is Xanders is the official GM and he will be given total control over all personnel decisions and report to Elway. That doesn't make Elway "really" the GM.

Dude, go pick the sand out of your vagina.

Mr. Elway
01-05-2011, 11:25 AM
Perhaps Elway is a Bowlen move more than an Ellis move.

You could be right. Did you see Ellis' press conference when they fired McD though? I got the overall impression that he realized that he had failed, and really wanted to make it right.

Cito Pelon
01-05-2011, 11:34 AM
I'm pretty sure Ellis and Bowlen realize that, and that's why they hired Elway. Ellis realized he was sold a bill of goods by McD which, despite all good intentions, McD was incapable of pulling off. If Ellis were really the worm-tongued conniving power-monger, then why would he want to hire Elway, who not only has very strong leadership skills, but is also probably the one person Bowlen would not fire before Ellis?

Is that a worm-tongue reference from The Two Towers? If so, not bad.

I don't think Ellis really wanted Elway in as a power competitor.

baja
01-05-2011, 11:37 AM
I'm pretty sure Ellis and Bowlen realize that, and that's why they hired Elway. Ellis realized he was sold a bill of goods by McD which, despite all good intentions, McD was incapable of pulling off. If Ellis were really the worm-tongued conniving power-monger, then <b>why would he want to hire Elway, </b>who not only has very strong leadership skills, but is also probably the one person Bowlen would not fire before Ellis?

What makes you so sure hiring Elway was something Ellis wanted.

Missouribronc
01-05-2011, 11:47 AM
John arriving for this 1st day on the job:

http://videocenter.denverpost.com/services/player/bcpid934052406?bctid=738598730001

Jeesh...Elway Watch II.

zdoor
01-05-2011, 11:50 AM
I think Bowlen is preparing to sell a controlling interest in the team to Elway and this is his audition to see how he does. He is in effect acting as the decision maker (owner) while reportedly relying on a GM and coach for input. I think Bowlen knows he is losing some of his sharpness and is looking for someone to take the responsibility from him and he trusts Elway. I would guess Ellis could also be looking at something similar in terms of a percentage with his input more on other non-football apsects of running the business.

All just a total guess but that is what it looks like....

Missouribronc
01-05-2011, 11:53 AM
I think Bowlen is preparing to sell a controlling interest in the team to Elway and this is his audition to see how he does. He is in effect acting as the decision maker (owner) while reportedly relying on a GM and coach for input. I think Bowlen knows he is losing some of his sharpness and is looking for someone to take the responsibility from him and he trusts Elway. I would guess Ellis could also be looking at something similar in terms of a percentage with his input more on other non-football apsects of running the business.

All just a total guess but that is what it looks like....

The Crush was test No. 1.

The Broncos are test No. 2.

gunns
01-05-2011, 11:56 AM
Gah. This doesn't bode well. Maybe xanders was worth keeping, but I put the firing of Mike Shanahan, as well as the hiring of Josh McDaniels at Ellis's feet. It's debatable if Shanahan was the right decision, but McDaniels was not for a moment correct.

The first one was right, the second wrong IMO. I'm very leery of Xanders being the GM. I got tired of the "good ole boy" network with Shanahan and I'm hoping that's not what's going on here. The whole McD thing was a colossal failure but I find it hard to believe that McD accomplished all that by himself.

BroncosMT
01-05-2011, 12:01 PM
The first one was right, the second wrong IMO. I'm very leery of Xanders being the GM. I got tired of the "good ole boy" network with Shanahan and I'm hoping that's not what's going on here. The whole McD thing was a colossal failure but I find it hard to believe that McD accomplished all that by himself.

I agree and i am having such a hard time not tying McD with Xanders....it may take some time but its hard not to keep the two together.

TonyR
01-05-2011, 12:05 PM
I think Bowlen is preparing to sell a controlling interest in the team to Elway...

Sell maybe, but not to Elway. He doesn't have remotely that kind of cash.

Tombstone RJ
01-05-2011, 12:07 PM
I'm giving Xanders the benefit of the doubt. IMHO he got railroaded by McD on many personel decisions and being that he's a "team player" he probably acquiesced too much. We will probably never know the real workings of the team during the McD tenure but I'm willing to give the guy a shot at being a real GM.

Cito Pelon
01-05-2011, 12:46 PM
Sell maybe, but not to Elway. He doesn't have remotely that kind of cash.

Elway has a lot of cash, his credit rating is top notch, and I think he could put together a controlling interest with Bowlen's help.

Rohirrim
01-05-2011, 12:48 PM
I wish somebody with an unlimited bankroll would buy this team.


Like George Soros. ;D

Inkana7
01-05-2011, 12:51 PM
I wish somebody with an unlimited bankroll would buy this team.


Like George Soros. ;D

Noted evil, government-toppling mastermind George Soros? Ha!

OrangeSe7en
01-05-2011, 12:56 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and toot my own horn here.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3068220&postcount=67

I don't see why. It's not like you really went out on a limb.

OrangeSe7en
01-05-2011, 12:58 PM
I think Bowlen is preparing to sell a controlling interest in the team to Elway and this is his audition to see how he does. He is in effect acting as the decision maker (owner) while reportedly relying on a GM and coach for input. I think Bowlen knows he is losing some of his sharpness and is looking for someone to take the responsibility from him and he trusts Elway. I would guess Ellis could also be looking at something similar in terms of a percentage with his input more on other non-football apsects of running the business.

All just a total guess but that is what it looks like....

As guesses go, it's not at all unreasonable.

Rohirrim
01-05-2011, 12:59 PM
Noted evil, government-toppling mastermind George Soros? Ha!

The Mane would lose half its posters. Including TJ. :rofl:

CEH
01-05-2011, 01:01 PM
I don't see why. It's not like you really went out on a limb.

If it was dated 9/20/2010 maybe but two days ago. It's been a foregone conclusion for weeks now. Every Friday they talk to him about it. He said they were in talks

Mr. Elway
01-05-2011, 01:16 PM
Is that a worm-tongue reference from The Two Towers? If so, not bad.

:~ohyah!: Yeah but I can't take credit - someone else posted an image of that in another thread (scorpio I think?). It's a really funny and fitting image of how Ellis is perceived by some though.

Update: yeah it was scorpio: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3071296&postcount=14

I don't think Ellis really wanted Elway in as a power competitor.

What makes you so sure hiring Elway was something Ellis wanted.

You both make the same valid point, and there's no way of knowing. I think that given Ellis' recent comments on mistakes being made re. McDaniels, and the lack of any stories in the media about disagreement re. the Elway hire, it's reasonable to assume both Ellis and Bowlen reached concensus.

The whole Wormtongue thing is really easy to digest, given the state of the franchise and rumors of Bowlen's declining health. It's compelling fiction, but I tend to think the reality is not so simple. When I actually hear Ellis talk, he sounds pretty genuine. I think he was in over his head hiring a HC, and he knows that now. I believe he cares about the Broncos and is smart enough to realize that he needs someone else in there to make better decisions regarding football operations.

TonyR
01-05-2011, 01:19 PM
Elway has a lot of cash...

While I'm sure he's very comfortable John Elway doesn't have anything close to resembling pro sports team majority ownership cash. I don't think you understand what kind of money we're talking about here. He'd have to be part of a consortium. The Broncos franchise is worth somewhere in the ballpark of $1 billion. Elway doesn't have even a small fraction of that kind of money.

Cito Pelon
01-05-2011, 01:25 PM
I'm giving Xanders the benefit of the doubt. IMHO he got railroaded by McD on many personel decisions and being that he's a "team player" he probably acquiesced too much. We will probably never know the real workings of the team during the McD tenure but I'm willing to give the guy a shot at being a real GM.

Yeah, I agree. The scouting staff is in place, the whole structure is in place, so let it ride. Elway isn't going to bring in a whole new structure.

Missouribronc
01-05-2011, 01:27 PM
While I'm sure he's very comfortable John Elway doesn't have anything close to resembling pro sports team majority ownership cash. I don't think you understand what kind of money we're talking about here. He'd have to be part of a consortium. The Broncos franchise is worth somewhere in the ballpark of $1 billion. Elway doesn't have even a small fraction of that kind of money.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/27/john-elway-would-like-to-be-an-owner/

Cito Pelon
01-05-2011, 01:30 PM
While I'm sure he's very comfortable John Elway doesn't have anything close to resembling pro sports team majority ownership cash. I don't think you understand what kind of money we're talking about here. He'd have to be part of a consortium. The Broncos franchise is worth somewhere in the ballpark of $1 billion. Elway doesn't have even a small fraction of that kind of money.

Right, he'd have to put together a consortium, and with Bowlen backing Elway he'd have controlling interest. How much controlling interest who knows. There are a lot of pro franchises with that type of ownership structure.

TonyR
01-05-2011, 01:35 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/27/john-elway-would-like-to-be-an-owner/

Yes, I'm well aware that Elway has been interested in ownership. But there's a big difference between "part owner" and "controlling interest". You could be a part owner if they'd take your money. My initial response that started this side discussion is that someone made the point that Elway was going to become involved in a "controlling interest", and my only response is that Elway doesn't have close to the resources needed to do that on his own.

OrangeSe7en
01-05-2011, 01:38 PM
Yes, I'm well aware that Elway has been interested in ownership. But there's a big difference between "part owner" and "controlling interest". You could be a part owner if they'd take your money. My initial response that started this side discussion is that someone made the point that Elway was going to become involved in a "controlling interest", and my only response is that Elway doesn't have close to the resources needed to do that on his own.

If his consortium partners were more limited partners and Elway was the general partner in terms of his level of involvement, how would Elway not be the de facto controlling owner? Also, the consortium could be structured in such a way that gives Elway the ability to buy out other interests, no?

TonyR
01-05-2011, 01:49 PM
If his consortium partners were more limited partners and Elway was the general partner in terms of his level of involvement, how would Elway not be the de facto controlling owner? Also, the consortium could be structured in such a way that gives Elway the ability to buy out other interests, no?

Yes, if Elway had a larger interest than anybody else theoretically he'd be the controlling owner or, more likely, part of a group that held a controlling interest.

OrangeSe7en
01-05-2011, 02:03 PM
Yes, if Elway had a larger interest than anybody else theoretically he'd be the controlling owner or, more likely, part of a group that held a controlling interest.

Thats what Im saying. If the other partners in the consortium are silent...if they dont participate in the running of the franchise, then he would be the de facto majority owner.

Drek
01-05-2011, 02:15 PM
While I'm sure he's very comfortable John Elway doesn't have anything close to resembling pro sports team majority ownership cash. I don't think you understand what kind of money we're talking about here. He'd have to be part of a consortium. The Broncos franchise is worth somewhere in the ballpark of $1 billion. Elway doesn't have even a small fraction of that kind of money.

Pat Bowlen isn't the soul owner of the Broncos, FYI. He's part of a ownership group where he gets full authority.

Nolan Ryan is the acting owner for the Texas Rangers despite being a small portion of the total money in to buy that team as well.

Elway could very likely scare up the $100M or better in cash to buy out 10% of the ownership group, and Bowlen has at one point already offered John 7% of the team at a VERY friendly rate by all accounts (which held up at appeal). That alone gets him to 17%, a larger stake than what Ryan holds in the Rangers. Bowlen doesn't actually hold a majority share himself as an individual if I recall correctly and it wouldn't be outside of Elway's means once the owner of an NFL franchise to finance and repay another $100M over a fairly short time frame to put himself well into the ownership driver's seat.

Not to mention he and Bowlen's former Crush partner, Stan Kroenke is technically still out there as a potential financing aid.