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View Full Version : Broncos will want 2nd round pick for Orton


TonyR
01-04-2011, 06:58 AM
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 4, 2011, 9:29 AM EST

Kyle Orton, who finished with 20 touchdowns and nine interceptions this year, would upgrade a lot of quarterback situations around the league. He’s a perfect candidate to pair with a raw young quarterback. Like, say, Tim Tebow.

Despite that, Mike Klis of the Denver Post writes that Orton will “likely be traded.” The Broncos will reportedly ask for a second round pick for Orton. A few points here:

Read it here:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/04/broncos-will-want-second-round-pick-for-orton/

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17002942 (analysis of Broncos roster)


I think Rosenthal makes some good points here.

Dagmar
01-04-2011, 07:00 AM
http://seattlesport.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/charlie-whitehurst.jpg

Rohirrim
01-04-2011, 07:00 AM
I'd say a second is the least they should take.

bronco militia
01-04-2011, 07:02 AM
how the heck does Mike Kliss know the Broncos will ask for a 2nd?

vancejohnson82
01-04-2011, 07:02 AM
if thats what they are looking for then we will have Orton holding a clipboard next year

BroncosMT
01-04-2011, 07:02 AM
John Clayton spoke this morning of his possibility of going to the Vikings

maher_tyler
01-04-2011, 07:04 AM
I don't think a 2nd is TO far fetched...although i think a 3rd is more likely!

Rohirrim
01-04-2011, 07:06 AM
"Whatever the news is, I'll listen and definitely perk up whenever I hear it," said Tebow, the Broncos' exciting but unpolished rookie quarterback. "I'll look forward to whoever we get, and I'm sure it'll be a great coach."

Thank you, Buzz Lightyear. :rofl:

TonyR
01-04-2011, 07:07 AM
Through 11 of his 13 starts, veteran Kyle Orton played beautifully, if mostly between the 20s. Orton, though, could not overcome the Broncos' ineffective running game and push the offense into the top 10 in scoring.

Tebow was almost the anti-Orton in his final three games: hardly pretty between the 20s, but his running ability helped him play well in the red zone and in the fourth quarter. Tebow will be the Broncos' starting quarterback in 2011. Orton is too good to play backup, so he will likely be traded. The Broncos will ask for a second-round draft pick.


Read more: Analysis of Broncos' roster after forgettable season - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17002942#ixzz1A4z0uZjP
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

jhns
01-04-2011, 07:07 AM
Well there are some dumb front offices, so a second is possible. It will be harder now that a raw project rookie outperformed him even after the guy calling the plays was fired during the season. We could always hope Josh gets a job somewhere.

Man-Goblin
01-04-2011, 07:10 AM
Trade Orton for as much as you can get and give Tebow the chance to succeed next year unless a miracle happens and you have a chance at Luck. Orton will just be a distraction and the Broncos have got to acquire more picks. 6 total picks is way too few for a team with this many holes.

Tebow is just as good of a prospect as the rest the other 4 possible first round QBs except for maybe Newton, but if you're going to ride the raw QB train you might as well go with the guy you've got. Especially with everything else Tebow has to offer and the fact that Newton has questionable character, to say the least.

The Joker
01-04-2011, 07:25 AM
I think a 3rd is more likely, but maybe we can get a 2nd if more than one team want him, which I doubt.

ayjackson
01-04-2011, 07:28 AM
I`d take an early 3rd. There`s a lot of needy teams in that range.

baja
01-04-2011, 07:34 AM
McD was working at making him worth a first. he did make a mistake by not benching him with the rib/shoulder injury but all that is moot now

BroncoInferno
01-04-2011, 07:38 AM
I'd be surprised if we got a 2nd, but I think we should be able to get a 3rd.

ayjackson
01-04-2011, 07:40 AM
McD was working at making him worth a first. he did make a mistake by not benching him with the rib/shoulder injury but all that is moot now

It was a good idea to sign him to a two-year deal to ensure he was a tradeable asset after the season.

TonyR
01-04-2011, 07:41 AM
This is interesting...

The Broncos are likely to bring back Haggan and Joe Mays, but there will be discussion about D.J. Williams and Robert Ayers.

Read more: Analysis of Broncos' roster after forgettable season - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17002942#ixzz1A57XDE1X
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

tsiguy96
01-04-2011, 07:42 AM
This is interesting...

The Broncos are likely to bring back Haggan and Joe Mays, but there will be discussion about D.J. Williams and Robert Ayers.

Read more: Analysis of Broncos' roster after forgettable season - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17002942#ixzz1A57XDE1X
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

no possible way either of those guys are released.

ScottXray
01-04-2011, 07:43 AM
I think if we don't get at LEAST a 2nd then he can sit behind Tebow.
Orton doesn't want to sit and is obviously pissed about Tebow even starting
the last 3 games. (which he should not be). He probably would be right to be pissed to sit next year though if he is healthy.

We can trade Quinn for a third to 4th (maybe). Orton is definitely worth a 2 or more, if Charlie Whitehurst was a 2nd in a deeper draft, with no rookie cap.
Unless we get that 2 (or better) than keep him and trade Quinn if needed.

BroncoInferno
01-04-2011, 07:46 AM
I think if we don't get at LEAST a 2nd then he can sit behind Tebow.
Orton doesn't want to sit and is obviously pissed about Tebow even starting
the last 3 games. (which he should not be). He probably would be right to be pissed to sit next year though if he is healthy.

We can trade Quinn for a third to 4th (maybe). Orton is definitely worth a 2 or more, if Charlie Whitehurst was a 2nd in a deeper draft, with no rookie cap.
Unless we get that 2 (or better) than keep him and trade Quinn if needed.

Nobody is trading anything for Brady Quinn.

TonyR
01-04-2011, 07:46 AM
no possible way either of those guys are released.

I wouldn't think so either. D.J. is, sadly, one of our best players and no way you give up on Ayers this early.

Ray Finkle
01-04-2011, 07:47 AM
no possible way either of those guys are released.

I think Ayers is kept....DJ I hope is traded..

vancejohnson82
01-04-2011, 07:47 AM
I think if we don't get at LEAST a 2nd then he can sit behind Tebow.
Orton doesn't want to sit and is obviously pissed about Tebow even starting
the last 3 games. (which he should not be). He probably would be right to be pissed to sit next year though if he is healthy.

We can trade Quinn for a third to 4th (maybe). Orton is definitely worth a 2 or more, if Charlie Whitehurst was a 2nd in a deeper draft, with no rookie cap.
Unless we get that 2 (or better) than keep him and trade Quinn if needed.


if you think we can get a third for Quinn at this point you are NUTS

ayjackson
01-04-2011, 07:48 AM
I think if we don't get at LEAST a 2nd then he can sit behind Tebow.

Then we`ll get nothing for him when he leaves at the end of the season. We should take what the market will bare.

We can trade Quinn for a third to 4th (maybe).

I sincerely doubt it. Quinn should be our backup.

Cleo McDowell
01-04-2011, 07:49 AM
despite the hatred/disgust re: orton's recent demeanor, its this same attitude we are hating from him that will land us a higher return, maybe even a second.

Tombstone RJ
01-04-2011, 07:50 AM
Isn't only a portion of Orton's $8+ million guaranteed? Or, is it all guaranteed? I'm thinking that this is what teams will be looking at if they want to trade for Orton. Orton does provide a valuable service for the right team (Vikings perhaps).

Kaylore
01-04-2011, 07:51 AM
You'll be lucky to get diddly poo for Quinn, let alone a draft pick.

Dedhed
01-04-2011, 07:56 AM
This is interesting...

The Broncos are likely to bring back Haggan and Joe Mays, but there will be discussion about D.J. Williams and Robert Ayers.

There will not be any discussion about whether to bring back Ayers.

Play2win
01-04-2011, 07:57 AM
"Whatever the news is, I'll listen and definitely perk up whenever I hear it," said Tebow, the Broncos' exciting but unpolished rookie quarterback. "I'll look forward to whoever we get, and I'm sure it'll be a great coach."

Thank you, Buzz Lightyear. :rofl:

DUDE. Just imagine if Tebow played in the PAC10. Imagine it until you believe it. He would have be real fun to watch in the PAC10. As a matter of fact, he almost looks like he would have fit in perfect in the PAC10. There. Now you can love him, since he is the future of the Denver Broncos.

Tebow would have been an absolute blast blast watching, playing for Stanford.

Rohirrim
01-04-2011, 08:04 AM
DUDE. Just imagine if Tebow played in the PAC10. Imagine it until you believe it. He would have be real fun to watch in the PAC10. As a matter of fact, he almost looks like he would have fit in perfect in the PAC10. There. Now you can love him, since he is the future of the Denver Broncos.

Tebow would have been an absolute blast blast watching, playing for Stanford.

I don't dislike Tebow at all. He just reminds me of Dudley DoRight. I find his boyscoutisms funny. You don't. Fine. Some people find even the slightest poking of fun at Tebow and Tebowmania to be some kind of sacrilege. I get it.

I loved watching Tebow at Florida. He was a fantastic college player. Everything you could hope for in a college football player. But try not to forget, it was Urban's business at Florida to win games, not build QBs for the NFL.

Play2win
01-04-2011, 08:06 AM
I think Ayers is kept....DJ I hope is traded..

Please, please, please... :pray:

baja
01-04-2011, 08:06 AM
It was a good idea to sign him to a two-year deal to ensure he was a tradeable asset after the season.

True

Josh McDaniels did a lot of good things for the Broncos but people here like to think he was most of the problem and now that he is gone the Broncos will return to greatness. Easy fixes, it's a human nature thing. ;D

baja
01-04-2011, 08:10 AM
"Whatever the news is, I'll listen and definitely perk up whenever I hear it," said Tebow, the Broncos' exciting but unpolished rookie quarterback. "I'll look forward to whoever we get, and I'm sure it'll be a great coach."

Thank you, Buzz Lightyear. :rofl:

Tell me he didn't really say that.

Play2win
01-04-2011, 08:11 AM
I don't dislike Tebow at all. He just reminds me of Dudley DoRight. I find his boyscoutisms funny. You don't. Fine. Some people find even the slightest poking of fun at Tebow and Tebowmania to be some kind of sacrilege. I get it.

I loved watching Tebow at Florida. He was a fantastic college player. Everything you could hope for in a college football player. But try not to forget, it was Urban's business at Florida to win games, not build QBs for the NFL.

Just think about it this way, it will be a fun ride-- and a mighty successful one too, probably.

I aint too much on the cult of personality either, except for a one, Mr. John Elway... ;D

edog24
01-04-2011, 08:14 AM
I say if we can get a 2nd or 3rd for Orton do it. In a strong draft we need to get as many picks as we can. As far as I'm concerned we can have donald duck holding a clipboard behind Tebow as long as donald doesn't want too much money.

Rascal
01-04-2011, 08:14 AM
We will be lucky to get a third. The contract we gave him was just stupid and now we will be punished for it. Thanks again Josh.

Drek
01-04-2011, 08:14 AM
I don't dislike Tebow at all. He just reminds me of Dudley DoRight. I find his boyscoutisms funny. You don't. Fine. Some people find even the slightest poking of fun at Tebow and Tebowmania to be some kind of sacrilege. I get it.

I loved watching Tebow at Florida. He was a fantastic college player. Everything you could hope for in a college football player. But try not to forget, it was Urban's business at Florida to win games, not build QBs for the NFL.

Yet the single best QB he's ever had has stepped into the NFL on a bad team, with a soon to be terminated fragment of a coaching staff, and went 1-2 with the team having a shot late in both losses. Those happened to be two top 10 defenses, including the #1 overall D.

Tebow is going to be a good NFL QB. Maybe an elite NFL QB. As a result QB is very far down the needs for this team right now. DL, CB, S, those three positions are the biggest needs.

Drek
01-04-2011, 08:16 AM
We will be lucky to get a third. The contract we gave him was just stupid and now we will be punished for it. Thanks again Josh.

His contract is well below the average for starting QB money, has little guaranteed money, and no long term commitment. It was an excellent deal to get him on and actually makes him more tradeable than if we were going to try a tag and trade instead.

bendog
01-04-2011, 08:19 AM
Nobody is trading anything for Brady Quinn.

Hey now, McD might get the Oak job!

Rascal
01-04-2011, 08:19 AM
His contract is well below the average for starting QB money, has little guaranteed money, and no long term commitment. It was an excellent deal to get him on and actually makes him more tradeable than if we were going to try a tag and trade instead.

Strongly disagree with that. You don't draft a QB in the first round and then give a pretty big multi-year contract to the QB already on your team in the same offseason. It's that same contract, specifically the 8 million, that will make it harder to trade him and lower his trade value.

Rohirrim
01-04-2011, 08:20 AM
Tell me he didn't really say that.

"To infinity, and beyond!"

mikey555
01-04-2011, 08:27 AM
Trade Orton for as much as you can get and give Tebow the chance to succeed next year unless a miracle happens and you have a chance at Luck. Orton will just be a distraction and the Broncos have got to acquire more picks. 6 total picks is way too few for a team with this many holes.

Tebow is just as good of a prospect as the rest the other 4 possible first round QBs except for maybe Newton, but if you're going to ride the raw QB train you might as well go with the guy you've got. Especially with everything else Tebow has to offer and the fact that Newton has questionable character, to say the least.


Newton couldn't beat out Tebow at Florida so I can't see comparing them now.

Rohirrim
01-04-2011, 08:29 AM
Yet the single best QB he's ever had has stepped into the NFL on a bad team, with a soon to be terminated fragment of a coaching staff, and went 1-2 with the team having a shot late in both losses. Those happened to be two top 10 defenses, including the #1 overall D.

Tebow is going to be a good NFL QB. Maybe an elite NFL QB. As a result QB is very far down the needs for this team right now. DL, CB, S, those three positions are the biggest needs.

Maybe. This team is at the bottom. Now is the time to make the decisions. I don't buy the "Give Tebow two or three years and see how it works out" philosophy.The Broncos have been playing this patchwork game for years. Add a piece here and a piece there. Brister, Griese, Plummer, Cutler, etc. I want to see a dynasty in Denver, not a wildcard game here and there.

We need to put all our cards on the table and build a winning system, starting with QB. Go all in. Either decide Tebow is the man, hire a coach specifically with his skillset in mind and draft players for that team, or decide he is not the guy, go after Luck (because QBs like him don't come around very often and the idea that there will be another Luck sitting there in two or three years is ludicrous) and build a team around him. When you're at the bottom, that's the kind of choice you have to make. Decide your direction and go. Continuing with the patchwork philosophy just dooms you to mediocrity.

TonyR
01-04-2011, 08:31 AM
Newton couldn't beat out Tebow at Florida so I can't see comparing them now.

Well, if you're going to make that argument you can then also argue that Tebow couldn't beat out Chris Leak. If Newton was there ahead of Tebow it probably would have been the opposite situation.

JDub15
01-04-2011, 08:32 AM
Quinn is not worth anything.

Whitehurst was traded for a swamp of second round picks plus maybe a 4th?

Orton is certainly worth at least a 2nd, he's the best QB prospect out there outside of Andrew Luck. He will impact immediately and make teams better.

Arizona, Minnesota, San Francisco, Tennessee, Miami, Washington, could all use a guy like Orton.

IMO Arizona or Minnesota makes the most sense.

bloodsunday
01-04-2011, 08:32 AM
how the heck does Mike Kliss know the Broncos will ask for a 2nd?

cuz they asked for the same thing last off season before Orton had a good year this year.

JDub15
01-04-2011, 08:33 AM
Well, if you're going to make that argument you can then also argue that Tebow couldn't beat out Chris Leak. If Newton was there ahead of Tebow it probably would have been the opposite situation.

Newton is a better pure QB than Tebow and a better athlete. Whether or not he has the intangibles, work ethic, and love the game to make it in the NFL remains to be seen.

IMO he goes to Buffalo at #3

bloodsunday
01-04-2011, 08:36 AM
Isn't only a portion of Orton's $8+ million guaranteed? Or, is it all guaranteed? I'm thinking that this is what teams will be looking at if they want to trade for Orton. Orton does provide a valuable service for the right team (Vikings perhaps).

Orton is guaranteed 2.9M if he's cut by the Broncos (unlikely). If he remains a Bronco or is traded (the new team picks up his deal), then he gets the full 9 or 10M.

OrangeSe7en
01-04-2011, 08:39 AM
There will not be any discussion about whether to bring back Ayers.

I can see them looking into trades. This past season has highlighted the fact that he doesnt get much pass rush. It might be worth looking into so they can make way for someone who can bring more pressure, whether its Bowers or Lamarr Woodley.

bloodsunday
01-04-2011, 08:40 AM
I'd be shocked if we drew a 2nd for Orton. It seems that people just place a premium on draft picks even though known quantities should be more valuable.

Either way, I don't think we should trade Orton. But I guess that depends on what your priorities are. I think that keeping Orton gives us the best chance to: 1) get back to respectability in 1 - 2 years 2) Give Tebow the time he needs to develop instead of being rushed and 3) Even if we start Tebow, he gives us strong leadership and depth. If Tebow were to fail or get injured -- the idea of turning the team over to Quinn makes me want to become put a fork in my eye.

TonyR
01-04-2011, 08:42 AM
...he's the best QB prospect out there outside of Andrew Luck.

Kevin Kolb? Gabbert? Locker? Newton? Mallet?

Man-Goblin
01-04-2011, 08:42 AM
Quinn is not worth anything.

Whitehurst was traded for a swamp of second round picks plus maybe a 4th?

Orton is certainly worth at least a 2nd, he's the best QB prospect out there outside of Andrew Luck. He will impact immediately and make teams better.

Arizona, Minnesota, San Francisco, Tennessee, Miami, Washington, could all use a guy like Orton.

IMO Arizona or Minnesota makes the most sense.

I think Miami makes the most sense. Henne is probably the worst starting QB in the league, and they already know Orton can get the ball to Brandon Marshall.

Too bad the Dolphins don't have a 2nd round pick...dohhhh.

Tombstone RJ
01-04-2011, 08:42 AM
Orton is guaranteed 2.9M if he's cut by the Broncos (unlikely). If he remains a Bronco or is traded (the new team picks up his deal), then he gets the full 9 or 10M.

Yah, it's gonna be tuff to get a 2nd for Orton with that contract.

OrangeSe7en
01-04-2011, 08:43 AM
Newton is a better pure QB than Tebow and a better athlete. Whether or not he has the intangibles, work ethic, and love the game to make it in the NFL remains to be seen.

IMO he goes to Buffalo at #3

One thing that people should consider is the speed of the game. With Tebow, the speed of the game hasnt really been that big of a problem. It wasnt when he was a young player in college and it wasn't this past season. When Cam Newton was first at Florida, he really struggled. He's obviousl found his way at this point but the speed of the game is an issue that some do better with than others. And at the pro level, some never get a handle on it.

OrangeSe7en
01-04-2011, 08:44 AM
Yah, it's gonna be tuff to get a 2nd for Orton with that contract.

Not at all. Nine million for a starting QB isnt that bad.

2KBack
01-04-2011, 08:47 AM
Newton is a better pure QB than Tebow and a better athlete. Whether or not he has the intangibles, work ethic, and love the game to make it in the NFL remains to be seen.

IMO he goes to Buffalo at #3

There is no quantitative evidence to back up this statement.

jhns
01-04-2011, 08:51 AM
Not at all. Nine million for a starting QB isnt that bad.

It is when that starting QB sucks.

Crushaholic
01-04-2011, 08:57 AM
It is when that starting QB sucks.

...which he didn't, for most of the season...

~Crash~
01-04-2011, 09:00 AM
Kevin Kolb? Gabbert? Locker? Newton? Mallet?

so ALL these guy fall to the ground and play ready to win ... niceHa!

dbfan21
01-04-2011, 09:01 AM
You'll be lucky to get diddly poo for Quinn, let alone a draft pick.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Lu_aVU24LHQ?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Lu_aVU24LHQ?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu_aVU24LHQ

Old Dude
01-04-2011, 09:03 AM
What we want and what we get aren't always the same thing.

jhns
01-04-2011, 09:04 AM
...which he didn't, for most of the season...

Maybe not to you. I consider getting outplayed by a project rookie that people are still questioning, sucking.

TonyR
01-04-2011, 09:08 AM
so ALL these guy fall to the ground and play ready to win ...

Homosayswhat?

TheReverend
01-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Kevin Kolb? Gabbert? Locker? Newton? Mallet?

Even Ponder is 10x better...

RaiderH8r
01-04-2011, 09:17 AM
Maybe. This team is at the bottom. Now is the time to make the decisions. I don't buy the "Give Tebow two or three years and see how it works out" philosophy.The Broncos have been playing this patchwork game for years. Add a piece here and a piece there. Brister, Griese, Plummer, Cutler, etc. I want to see a dynasty in Denver, not a wildcard game here and there.

We need to put all our cards on the table and build a winning system, starting with QB. Go all in. Either decide Tebow is the man, hire a coach specifically with his skillset in mind and draft players for that team, or decide he is not the guy, go after Luck (because QBs like him don't come around very often and the idea that there will be another Luck sitting there in two or three years is ludicrous) and build a team around him. When you're at the bottom, that's the kind of choice you have to make. Decide your direction and go. Continuing with the patchwork philosophy just dooms you to mediocrity.

Tebow's the guy. Now go get a defense. Period. End of story. Otherwise we're just chasing our tails losing games 45-21.

We don't need some super special, out of the ether, super coach to make Tebow successful. We just need a playbook that runs a god damned play action bootleg for starters. A playbook that recognizes our guy can and does play excellently outside the pocket and on the run. Tebow can force coverages to decide to break coverage and risk a big play to stop his run or stay in coverage and give up the 9 yard run on third and 8....oh and an OC who doesn't insist on running a 5WR shotgun QB sneak on 3rd and 1. Christ McCoy is predictable. I'm telling you, a 13 year old kid with a madden playbook could do more for our offense than McCoy's dumb ass. Oh, and the Tin Man, Demariyus Thomas needs to clean the sand out of his vagina and start producing. Fixing our RB positon will have to wait until next year. Hopefully we find a gem that makes NoGo Moreno and his Fetal Position running style irrelevant to the club.

Denver's Draft Board and priorities for the 2011 offseason should be Defense, Defense, Defense and some Summer's Eve douche for DT's sandy vagina.

Rashomon
01-04-2011, 09:25 AM
I think if we don't get at LEAST a 2nd then he can sit behind Tebow.
Orton doesn't want to sit and is obviously pissed about Tebow even starting
the last 3 games. (which he should not be). He probably would be right to be pissed to sit next year though if he is healthy.

We can trade Quinn for a third to 4th (maybe). Orton is definitely worth a 2 or more, if Charlie Whitehurst was a 2nd in a deeper draft, with no rookie cap.
Unless we get that 2 (or better) than keep him and trade Quinn if needed.


Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but unless/until there is a new CBA, then no players can be traded. If the new CBA is not worked out before the draft, then no trades of players can be made for draft picks. My guess is that it is highly unlikely that the CBA will be worked out before the draft. Alot of teams are going to be handicapped by this.

missingnumber7
01-04-2011, 09:26 AM
Can anyone with knowledge of the CBA issue confirm what was talked about on 850 yesterday. They stated that after the postseason is over that there will be no trading allowed until a new CBA is inplace. In that case unless they have a CBA in place before the draft we won't be seeing any additional draft picks for trades.

And to comment on the DJ being traded, I think it happens especially with the likelyhood of him missing 4 games next season for the DUI. His trade value isn't going to get any grater after the season he had this year. With Doom coming back, Ayers/Haggan opposite him, Mays coming back with either Woodyard/Haggan or a draft pick opposite him or in rotation.

JDub15
01-04-2011, 09:27 AM
Kevin Kolb? Gabbert? Locker? Newton? Mallet?

Orton will out perform all of this QBs in 2011

OrangeSe7en
01-04-2011, 09:28 AM
Can anyone with knowledge of the CBA issue confirm what was talked about on 850 yesterday. They stated that after the postseason is over that there will be no trading allowed until a new CBA is inplace. In that case unless they have a CBA in place before the draft we won't be seeing any additional draft picks for trades.

And to comment on the DJ being traded, I think it happens especially with the likelyhood of him missing 4 games next season for the DUI. His trade value isn't going to get any grater after the season he had this year. With Doom coming back, Ayers/Haggan opposite him, Mays coming back with either Woodyard/Haggan or a draft pick opposite him or in rotation.

I thought the old CBA expires on March 5. Im not sure if they can trade before then.

JDub15
01-04-2011, 09:31 AM
There is no quantitative evidence to back up this statement.

Agreed but watch the game and tell me that Tim was the better pure college QB, perhaps the better player, but not passer.

Now I would draft Tebow over Newton, doesn't mean Newton isn't the better pure passer.

cabronco
01-04-2011, 09:31 AM
It wouldn't hurt my feelings to go all in on defense. Lord knows the Broncos have needed one for awhile.

Saying that, we also have a couple other positions of need, TE and RB. Maybe for next years draft. But if we're in a position with one of our picks and choosing a d-player there would be a reach, I would go BPA at TE or RB.

The O-line needs to improve big time to create running lanes, but we need a quick fast runner to hit the holes and possibly go the distance. That would open up play action for Tebow & the Receivers that much more.

JDub15
01-04-2011, 09:32 AM
Can anyone with knowledge of the CBA issue confirm what was talked about on 850 yesterday. They stated that after the postseason is over that there will be no trading allowed until a new CBA is inplace. In that case unless they have a CBA in place before the draft we won't be seeing any additional draft picks for trades.

And to comment on the DJ being traded, I think it happens especially with the likelyhood of him missing 4 games next season for the DUI. His trade value isn't going to get any grater after the season he had this year. With Doom coming back, Ayers/Haggan opposite him, Mays coming back with either Woodyard/Haggan or a draft pick opposite him or in rotation.

New to the forum and there seems to be a lot of hate for DJ? Why is that? Just off the field stuff?

snowspot66
01-04-2011, 09:43 AM
Orton is guaranteed 2.9M if he's cut by the Broncos (unlikely). If he remains a Bronco or is traded (the new team picks up his deal), then he gets the full 9 or 10M.

One year of 8 million dollars is not a bad contract. In hindsight the Seahawks and Vikings would have paid double for one year to have him for this year.

HAT
01-04-2011, 09:45 AM
Maybe not to you. I consider getting outplayed by a project rookie that people are still questioning, sucking.

Good news everybody! We can take jhiz off the list of possible trading partners for Orton.

Lolad
01-04-2011, 09:46 AM
I don't understand why they would let Harris go, he's one of our best running blocking OL when healthy.

We need:

Dline, SS, LB, CB's, and a pass catching TE... Oh and a RB that can stay on the field for more then 1 play at a time without taking himself out the game/injured.

snowspot66
01-04-2011, 09:46 AM
New to the forum and there seems to be a lot of hate for DJ? Why is that? Just off the field stuff?

People want him to be a superstar. He'll never be that. But that's what people want so they are willing to create another hole on defense in order to try to find a superstar.

RaiderH8r
01-04-2011, 09:46 AM
New to the forum and there seems to be a lot of hate for DJ? Why is that? Just off the field stuff?

For myself I don't hate the guy and I'd love to keep him on the team but as a value assessment he's more valuable as a trade asset to the club right now since his stock is about as high as he's going to get it. His next contract is going to require quite a bit more in the way of resources and what we get in return is a better risk than standing pat with him at this point. That's my take. Kind of the same way with Orton. Hell, I may even consider shipping Lloyd for the right price.

HAT
01-04-2011, 09:50 AM
New to the forum and there seems to be a lot of hate for DJ? Why is that? Just off the field stuff?

Welcome to the 'Mane.....Where, there's 2 camps for just about every high profile Bronco and the minority camp is generally the most vocal.

2KBack
01-04-2011, 09:55 AM
Agreed but watch the game and tell me that Tim was the better pure college QB, perhaps the better player, but not passer.

Now I would draft Tebow over Newton, doesn't mean Newton isn't the better pure passer.

it just seems to me that you are passing that assessment purely on throwing motion, because statistically Tebow was just as effective, if not more so as a passer, and did it over several seasons.

Old Dude
01-04-2011, 10:00 AM
New to the forum and there seems to be a lot of hate for DJ? Why is that? Just off the field stuff?

Hate is too strong a word and yes it has a lot to do with off-the-field stuff. Skipped early workouts this year, then got his 2d DUI right in the middle of a horrible season. Not good for the team Captain.

He's had a couple of highly visible bad plays on the field - both involving pass coverage.

We've never really recovered (on defense) from the loss of Al Wilson's leadership and intensity.

I think most people see him as a better-than-average player who, to his credit, has a lot of versatility and has played reasonably well in a variety of schemes. But we expect more for what he's being paid.

JDub15
01-04-2011, 10:21 AM
Hate is too strong a word and yes it has a lot to do with off-the-field stuff. Skipped early workouts this year, then got his 2d DUI right in the middle of a horrible season. Not good for the team Captain.

He's had a couple of highly visible bad plays on the field - both involving pass coverage.

We've never really recovered (on defense) from the loss of Al Wilson's leadership and intensity.

I think most people see him as a better-than-average player who, to his credit, has a lot of versatility and has played reasonably well in a variety of schemes. But we expect more for what he's being paid.

Thanks for the clarification all - he's still the best LB outside of Dumervil the Broncos have, and for my money is the best LB in pass coverage by far - maybe that says something in general about Broncos LBs ability to pass cover :)

Why not just let him playout his current deal? You wouldn't get much in a trade especially if he gets suspended.

NFLBRONCO
01-04-2011, 10:25 AM
Maybe we can package Melo and Orton and get a 2nd rounder.

bronco militia
01-04-2011, 10:26 AM
Maybe we can package Melo and Orton and get a 2nd rounder.

this! :strong:

you sir have a future in the front office!

Ha!

JDub15
01-04-2011, 10:26 AM
I don't understand why they would let Harris go, he's one of our best running blocking OL when healthy.

We need:

Dline, SS, LB, CB's, and a pass catching TE... Oh and a RB that can stay on the field for more then 1 play at a time without taking himself out the game/injured.

Harris is slightly below average IMO, but certainly a guy you can live with. This year I thought Clady was our best run blocking OL. A couple times I have very vivid memories of him just whiffing on blocks and getting Orton killed... MNF football anyone? His strength seems to be blocking on screen plays, which is the strength of almost every Broncos OL :)

That being said this team can ill-afford to have another hole to fill, short-term deal would be the best - but I speculate that their may be another team that would sign him for more... if he leaves I won't be disappointed.

I agree that DE/NT/CB are the most pressing needs.

edog24
01-04-2011, 10:27 AM
Thanks for the clarification all - he's still the best LB outside of Dumervil the Broncos have, and for my money is the best LB in pass coverage by far - maybe that says something in general about Broncos LBs ability to pass cover :)

Why not just let him playout his current deal? You wouldn't get much in a trade especially if he gets suspended.

I would rather him leave at this point, he seems like he is damaged goods. I would be more inclined to take young talent at the position, someone who is motivated to play hard and brings new energy.

2KBack
01-04-2011, 10:35 AM
Hate is too strong a word and yes it has a lot to do with off-the-field stuff. Skipped early workouts this year, then got his 2d DUI right in the middle of a horrible season. Not good for the team Captain.

He's had a couple of highly visible bad plays on the field - both involving pass coverage.

We've never really recovered (on defense) from the loss of Al Wilson's leadership and intensity.

I think most people see him as a better-than-average player who, to his credit, has a lot of versatility and has played reasonably well in a variety of schemes. But we expect more for what he's being paid.

I also think DJ still relies 100% on athleticism, he does well enough with that, but is also regularly out of position and has the contagious and infuriating habit of hitting instead of tackling (not that he's alone). I personally think Woodyard outplayed him this past game.

TonyR
01-04-2011, 10:37 AM
Orton will out perform all of this QBs in 2011

Maybe, but you said "QB prospect". You have to give any prospect a chance to develop, and all of those guys I named are better prospects than Orton.

ayjackson
01-04-2011, 10:44 AM
Welcome to the 'Mane.....Where, there's 2 camps for just about every high profile Bronco and the minority camp is generally the most vocal.

and there can be no more than three posts amounting to rational discusssion in any one thread.

colonelbeef
01-04-2011, 10:46 AM
I don't think a 2nd is TO far fetched...although i think a 3rd is more likely!

same here

ZONA
01-04-2011, 10:47 AM
When you ask for a 2nd, you know you will be getting a 3rd. If you had asked for a 3rd, you would only be getting a 4th. That's how it works.

Tombstone RJ
01-04-2011, 10:48 AM
When you ask for a 2nd, you know you will be getting a 3rd. If you had asked for a 3rd, you would only be getting a 4th. That's how it works.

Then the Broncos should ask for 2 firsts...

JDub15
01-04-2011, 10:48 AM
Maybe, but you said "QB prospect". You have to give any prospect a chance to develop, and all of those guys I named are better prospects than Orton.

Well I agree with that expect in the case of Mallet (I think he's a bust if he comes out now).

Orton could still get better and can be the answer for a team that wants to win now...

Miss I.
01-04-2011, 10:57 AM
Well I agree with that expect in the case of Mallet (I think he's a bust if he comes out now).

Orton could still get better and can be the answer for a team that wants to win now...

Don't we want to win now? ;D

uplink
01-04-2011, 11:01 AM
Orton would be a good fit in Minny

missingnumber7
01-04-2011, 11:01 AM
New to the forum and there seems to be a lot of hate for DJ? Why is that? Just off the field stuff?

DJ is a below average MLB in the 3-4. He is built to be a Will in a 4-3 and that is what they drafted for him. If they let champ go, they have admitted to rebuilding, it isn't hate to dj, its realization that DJ isn't part of the future, and we need draft picks.

JDub15
01-04-2011, 11:02 AM
Don't we want to win now? ;D

Depending on who the coach is - I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of Orton being the starting QB next year.

Mountain Bronco
01-04-2011, 11:06 AM
Maybe. This team is at the bottom. Now is the time to make the decisions. I don't buy the "Give Tebow two or three years and see how it works out" philosophy.The Broncos have been playing this patchwork game for years. Add a piece here and a piece there. Brister, Griese, Plummer, Cutler, etc. I want to see a dynasty in Denver, not a wildcard game here and there.

We need to put all our cards on the table and build a winning system, starting with QB. Go all in. Either decide Tebow is the man, hire a coach specifically with his skillset in mind and draft players for that team, or decide he is not the guy, go after Luck (because QBs like him don't come around very often and the idea that there will be another Luck sitting there in two or three years is ludicrous) and build a team around him. When you're at the bottom, that's the kind of choice you have to make. Decide your direction and go. Continuing with the patchwork philosophy just dooms you to mediocrity.


Can people get over the Luck fantasy? If he does come out, he will go to Carolina and that is that. No offer will persuade them otherwise.

Just stop already.

Crushaholic
01-04-2011, 01:11 PM
Maybe not to you. I consider getting outplayed by a project rookie that people are still questioning, sucking.

That's why I said "most of the season". Orton didn't play well in his final 2 or 3 games, which is why I had no problem benching him. However, he was statistically in the elite category of NFL quarterbacks for most of the 2010 season...

edog24
01-04-2011, 01:18 PM
So would this be 3 second rounders if we can pull it off? Drool?

jhns
01-04-2011, 01:21 PM
That's why I said "most of the season". Orton didn't play well in his final 2 or 3 games, which is why I had no problem benching him. However, he was statistically in the elite category of NFL quarterbacks for most of the 2010 season...

I was talking about all of his games vs Tebows 3 games. Orton and McDaniels averaged about 20 points per game. Tebow and Studesville averages about 25 points a game. Orton had lots of yards from garbage time. He sucked every time the game was close. Garbage time numbers do not = elite. When this team was behind by 8 or less points, Orton had a 58 QB rating. When this team was ahead by 8 or less points, he had a 70 QB rating. It was this way all season.

Again, garbage time stats and lots of passing yards on a team that refuses to run it does not show that he was playing well ever. We had a chance at the end of a ton of games and every time Orton fell apart. Shoot, KC had the perfect game plan in place to stop Orton. Just go ahead by a score and don't score again. It puts to much pressure on Orton and we end up losing 6-10.

CEH
01-04-2011, 01:24 PM
I expect DJ Williams to be traded this offseason. The team I bet is fed up with his off the field stuff . Send him packing to a 4-3 team .

snowspot66
01-04-2011, 01:48 PM
I expect DJ Williams to be traded this offseason. The team I bet is fed up with his off the field stuff . Send him packing to a 4-3 team .

That'd be a great way to start rebuilding a defense. Get rid of one of the better players.

extralife
01-04-2011, 01:53 PM
I'd like to see the Niners give us a third for Orton.

ayjackson
01-04-2011, 01:55 PM
I don`t know about the Niners, but I think the Vikings (Webb) and the Cardinals (Skelton) might be interested in him because he has one year on his current deal, they`re not sure what they have in their young quarterbacks and they might not want to draft one not knowing what they already have.

*WARHORSE*
01-04-2011, 02:00 PM
Minnesota is the place to be for Orton.

extralife
01-04-2011, 02:00 PM
The Vikings are almost guaranteed to be interested. I think the Cardinals suck too much to be thinking about trading high draft picks for vets. The Niners have nothing at the position. Alex Smith is (finally) gone, and no one is going to come in and feel comfortable starting Troy Smith. And they're a decent enough team to make some noise with a coach and a QB.

DarkHorse30
01-04-2011, 02:00 PM
I think Ayers is kept....DJ I hope is traded..




This. Trade him to the vikings with Orton and get a first

CEH
01-04-2011, 02:25 PM
That'd be a great way to start rebuilding a defense. Get rid of one of the better players.

Again has nothing to do with on the field. It's his off the field activities that are worrisome and have grown old inside Dove Valley

Steve Sewell
01-04-2011, 03:09 PM
I'd be shocked if we drew a 2nd for Orton. It seems that people just place a premium on draft picks even though known quantities should be more valuable.

Either way, I don't think we should trade Orton. But I guess that depends on what your priorities are. I think that keeping Orton gives us the best chance to: 1) get back to respectability in 1 - 2 years 2) Give Tebow the time he needs to develop instead of being rushed and 3) Even if we start Tebow, he gives us strong leadership and depth. If Tebow were to fail or get injured -- the idea of turning the team over to Quinn makes me want to become put a fork in my eye.

The ship has sailed on the notion of "give Tebow the time he needs to develop". They've seen enough to know that with the right coaches and continued improvement of mechanics that he can play in the NFL.

epicSocialism4tw
01-04-2011, 03:58 PM
I was talking about all of his games vs Tebows 3 games. Orton and McDaniels averaged about 20 points per game. Tebow and Studesville averages about 25 points a game. Orton had lots of yards from garbage time. He sucked every time the game was close. Garbage time numbers do not = elite. When this team was behind by 8 or less points, Orton had a 58 QB rating. When this team was ahead by 8 or less points, he had a 70 QB rating. It was this way all season.

Again, garbage time stats and lots of passing yards on a team that refuses to run it does not show that he was playing well ever. We had a chance at the end of a ton of games and every time Orton fell apart. Shoot, KC had the perfect game plan in place to stop Orton. Just go ahead by a score and don't score again. It puts to much pressure on Orton and we end up losing 6-10.

To be fair to Orton, the offensive line was pathetic this year. Orton absolutely has to have good pass blocking to be successful.

He wont get that here any time soon though.

Minnesota is the place for Kyle.

missingnumber7
01-04-2011, 04:22 PM
That'd be a great way to start rebuilding a defense. Get rid of one of the better players.

Who is average at BEST in the 3-4.