PDA

View Full Version : Andrew Luck: Orange Bowl tonight...


Pages : 1 [2]

yerner
01-03-2011, 10:12 PM
Show me where I said anything about what kind of pocket QB Tebow is, let alone compared him in that regard to Luck. What I said, was that if the roles were reversed, I'm certain Tebow could be as successful with Stanford as Luck is, especially if Harbaugh is all that as most of you seem to think. I question whether Luck could have stepped in under the same circumstances as Tebow has and done what Tim has done his first three games. Elway sucked his rookie year, so you're exempting Luck from that? Why, because you saw him run a pro style offense agaisnt West Virginia?

Yes, Luck could have stepped in and played as well as Tebow. He would just have played differently.

Rohirrim
01-03-2011, 10:14 PM
Show me where I said anything about what kind of pocket QB Tebow is, let alone compared him in that regard to Luck. What I said, was that if the roles were reversed, I'm certain Tebow could be as successful with Stanford as Luck is, especially if Harbaugh is all that as most of you seem to think. I question whether Luck could have stepped in under the same circumstances as Tebow has and done what Tim has done his first three games. Elway sucked his rookie year, so you're exempting Luck from that? Why, because you saw him run a pro style offense agaisnt West Virginia?

Nope. I've seen most of the Stanford games this year. I would compare Luck more to a Brady type, than an Elway type. Elway had one of the strongest arms of all time. I have yet to see a QB throw as hard as John. Luck can make any throw on the field, but not with that kind of velocity. He's got Elway's size, though. He's hard to tackle and can take off and get yards when he has to. His best attribute is his ability to read the defenses and adjust. They say that's the hardest thing to teach a QB and scouts say that's Luck's strongest asset. Of course, his father was an NFL QB so he's probably been learning that stuff from an early age.

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 10:15 PM
Yes, and both should be admired for their dedication to their school and teammates, but the fact remains that there is no time like the present for Luck. Leinart probably would've been a top five bust, uh, pick had he left his junior year. Staying cost him many millions.

I'm not claiming it's absolutely the right thing to do, rather, the smart thing to do.

College for these guys is just party central anyhow. Even at Stanford. Luck would be trading millions of dollars for a year of living life as the big man on campus.

Now, Im sure that many people who visit this site would make that trade, but for a guy like Luck who will be ushered back into colleges by the daughters of the deans...making that trade off is flat stupid.

Rohirrim
01-03-2011, 10:16 PM
Thats probably the strangest line of reasoning I have seen in this thread of fawning Lucklove....

Somehow Tebow is playing against lesser defenses in the pros than Luck is in college?

You're the one doing the fawning around here, cupcake.

footstepsfrom#27
01-03-2011, 10:16 PM
Yes, Luck could have stepped in and played as well as Tebow. He would just have played differently.
Speculation...we know Tebow did it, nobody knows if Luck would also.

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 10:19 PM
Speculation...we know Tebow did it, nobody knows if Luck would also.

Luck is magic.

You can imagine him doing anything that he has yet to do, and he magically becomes successful at it in your mind.

Its crazy.

yerner
01-03-2011, 10:21 PM
Speculation...we know Tebow did it, nobody knows if Luck would also.

Sure it's speculation. But stop acting like Tebow came in played amazing. ****ing Joe Webb won a game this year too.

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 10:22 PM
Sure it's speculation. But stop acting like Tebow came in played amazing. ****ing Joe Webb won a game this year too.

Tebow did play pretty freakin' good in his first three professional games.

NUB
01-03-2011, 10:25 PM
Tebow played remarkably well for a rookie in a godawful situation. I don't think Joe Webb is a realistic comparison since the Vikings have both a run game and a defense. Clausen and McCoy are more apt.

strafen
01-03-2011, 10:25 PM
Show me where I said anything about what kind of pocket QB Tebow is, let alone compared him in that regard to Luck. What I said, was that if the roles were reversed, I'm certain Tebow could be as successful with Stanford as Luck is, especially if Harbaugh is all that as most of you seem to think. I question whether Luck could have stepped in under the same circumstances as Tebow has and done what Tim has done his first three games. Elway sucked his rookie year, so you're exempting Luck from that? Why, because you saw him run a pro style offense agaisnt West Virginia?I'll bet Harbaugh could successfully work with Tebow.

Despite the fact that Tebow has looked impressive -at least in my eyes- his refinement as a QB would come from being more patient in the pocket and stepping up in his throws from under center.

I'm not sure if this is the right offense for Tebow, but I suspect that under the right system, he would do even better.
Tebow only had 3 days of developing chemistry with his receivers.
They really don't know each other tendencies well enough to make the big plays.

The VT defense was a stout defense Stanford played tonight.
Gotta give Luck his dues as he gave a performance expected of him.
He met some high expectations tonight...

In my opinion, they're both great QB's. I think in the long run, Luck would be a great QB. We don't know for sure, but I like the kid's chances...

As for Tebow, I think a running game and a good defense and we're going to win a lot of games with him. Toss up! :)

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 10:27 PM
In my opinion, they're both great QB's. I think in the long run, Luck would be a great QB. We don't know for sure, but I like the kid's chances...

As for Tebow, I think a running game and a good defense and we're going to win a lot of games with him. Toss up! :)

Well, the good news for us is that we dont have to expend resources to move forward with our guy.

We can start building a real defense.

OABB
01-03-2011, 10:29 PM
Could you imagine if cutler came back from 17 down and than a week later almost came back from 19 what this place would be like. If cutler did it as a four yet vet the knob slobbering here would be epic.

If cutler did that as a rookie? Omg no one would talk about another qb at all. It really is all about the strength of the pass here. It really is just that. If tebow threw it harder or looked prettier throwing no one would even think for a second about luck.

Do people even understand a winner when they see it?

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 10:33 PM
Could you imagine if cutler came back from 17 down and than a week later almost came back from 19 what this place would be like. If cutler did it as a four yet vet the knob slobbering here would be epic.

If cutler did that as a rookie? Omg no one would talk about another qb at all. It really is all about the strength of the pass here. It really is just that. If tebow threw it harder or looked prettier throwing no one would even think for a second about luck.

Do people even understand a winner when they see it?

This generation of Broncos fans wouldnt know what one looked like.

Archer81
01-03-2011, 10:34 PM
Could you imagine if cutler came back from 17 down and than a week later almost came back from 19 what this place would be like. If cutler did it as a four yet vet the knob slobbering here would be epic.

If cutler did that as a rookie? Omg no one would talk about another qb at all. It really is all about the strength of the pass here. It really is just that. If tebow threw it harder or looked prettier throwing no one would even think for a second about luck.

Do people even understand a winner when they see it?


The last time the Broncos won anything of consequence, half the members of this board were 12 years old or younger. So no, they dont. I remember Elway. I remember that feeling that if Denver is within 17 points in the 3rd or 4th qtr Elway would find a way to get the game back. Tebow does the same thing.

:Broncos:

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 10:36 PM
Could you imagine if cutler came back from 17 down and than a week later almost came back from 19 what this place would be like. If cutler did it as a four yet vet the knob slobbering here would be epic.

If cutler did that as a rookie? Omg no one would talk about another qb at all. It really is all about the strength of the pass here. It really is just that. If tebow threw it harder or looked prettier throwing no one would even think for a second about luck.

Do people even understand a winner when they see it?

No apparently they don't.

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 10:39 PM
The last time the Broncos won anything of consequence, half the members of this board were 12 years old or younger. So no, they dont. I remember Elway. I remember that feeling that if Denver is within 17 points in the 3rd or 4th qtr Elway would find a way to get the game back. Tebow does the same thing.

:Broncos:

He also gives you that same underdog feeling...like nobody believes in him but himself. When he brought the Broncos back from 17 down, it was the Elway feeling all over again. Uncanny.

bombquixote
01-03-2011, 10:42 PM
The issue with Tebow isn't whether he's athletic enough or has a strong enough arm or whether or not he's smart enough to learn a playbook. Yes, he can make something happen when the play breaks down. He can huck the ball to a wide open receiver when he has plenty of time.

The issue is, his delivery is too slow, and he's consistently inaccurate. HE CANNOT PASS THE BALL. He can't hit timing routes over the middle because when he sees receivers coming open, it's already too late. He can't get the ball out of his hand in time. We saw it all day Sunday: He starts to throw, but hesitates, holds the ball. Then starts dodging the rush until Brandon Lloyd improvises himself open downfield. It's fun to watch, but it's not playoff football. When you can't hit the slot on a timing route, you're looking at a lot of three-and-outs, and worse, a QB who's going to take too many hits trying to make things happen because he can't hit the simple read.

I like Tebow. I hope I'm wrong about him, but I'm pretty sure we don't have a QB. I'm also pretty sure the whoever takes this team over and evaluates the current talent will realize this. We will take a QB in the first round, be it Luck, Locker or Mallet. Of the three I hope, somehow, it's Luck. The chances are he's going to be the real deal. It'll cost us to get him, probably enough that it'll take an extra year to make it to the playoffs. But in the end, we'll be better overall and for much, much longer.

Long term contenders are built around QBs.

OABB
01-03-2011, 10:43 PM
My father watched the charger game with me. He hadn't had a chance to watch tebow yet... He only knew what he read or heard from me. Anyways, he watched the charger game and didn't say a thing. I had talked tebow up and was dissapointed by his innaccuracy.

When the game was over I asked my dad what he thought, fully expecting dissapointment. He looked at me and said " mile high magic is back. We have our quarterback.". My dad is a die hard bronco fan and has been since bears stadium. I remember growing up in the 80s watching elway and I had forgotten how good it was.

I was shocked when we didn't get that hail Mary. How wierd is that, I was expecting it. An onside kick? A timely stop? A kick return td? If you guys can't see the affect that tebow has on a game than you aren't watching.

OABB
01-03-2011, 10:46 PM
The issue with Tebow isn't whether he's athletic enough or has a strong enough arm or whether or not he's smart enough to learn a playbook. Yes, he can make something happen when the play breaks down. He can huck the ball to a wide open receiver when he has plenty of time.

The issue is, his delivery is too slow, and he's consistently inaccurate. HE CANNOT PASS THE BALL. He can't hit timing routes over the middle because when he sees receivers coming open, it's already too late. He can't get the ball out of his hand in time. We saw it all day Sunday: He starts to throw, but hesitates, holds the ball. Then starts dodging the rush until Brandon Lloyd improvises himself open downfield. It's fun to watch, but it's not playoff football. When you can't hit the slot on a timing route, you're looking at a lot of three-and-outs, and worse, a QB who's going to take too many hits trying to make things happen because he can't hit the simple read.

I like Tebow. I hope I'm wrong about him, but I'm pretty sure we don't have a QB. I'm also pretty sure the whoever takes this team over and evaluates the current talent will realize this. We will take a QB in the first round, be it Luck, Locker or Mallet. Of the three I hope, somehow, it's Luck. The chances are he's going to be the real deal. It'll cost us to get him, probably enough that it'll take an extra year to make it to the playoffs. But in the end, we'll be better overall and for much, much longer.

Long term contenders are built around QBs.

so how does a guy who can't throw the ball end up with the best passing stats of all time in college?

bombquixote
01-03-2011, 10:48 PM
so how does a guy who can't throw the ball end up with the best passing stats of all time in college?

I don't know. Apparently they threw a lot of screens. But I didn't watch Florida. I'm only talking about what I've seen of Tebow with the Broncos...which really is all that's relevant.

DarkHorse
01-03-2011, 10:49 PM
so how does a guy who can't throw the ball end up with the best passing stats of all time in college?

psssst - it never actually happened. It's just another bible story.

OABB
01-03-2011, 10:50 PM
I don't know. Apparently they threw a lot of screens. But I didn't watch Florida. I'm only talking about what I've seen of Tebow with the Broncos...which really is all that's relevant.

three games is relevent to an all caps doucheoff about his throwing abilities?


As a rookie?


Really?















I mean, really?

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 10:53 PM
The issue with Tebow isn't whether he's athletic enough or has a strong enough arm or whether or not he's smart enough to learn a playbook. Yes, he can make something happen when the play breaks down. He can huck the ball to a wide open receiver when he has plenty of time.

The issue is, his delivery is too slow, and he's consistently inaccurate. HE CANNOT PASS THE BALL. He can't hit timing routes over the middle because when he sees receivers coming open, it's already too late. He can't get the ball out of his hand in time. We saw it all day Sunday: He starts to throw, but hesitates, holds the ball. Then starts dodging the rush until Brandon Lloyd improvises himself open downfield. It's fun to watch, but it's not playoff football. When you can't hit the slot on a timing route, you're looking at a lot of three-and-outs, and worse, a QB who's going to take too many hits trying to make things happen because he can't hit the simple read.

So Tebow can't do those things ever because he's struggling to do them as a rookie? I just don't get it. I actually agree with some of what you are saying in terms of what he is struggling with. It seemed that the Chargers coverages in particular gave him real trouble. He was very hesitant all game long. No question. And if he were a 2nd or 3rd year QB having such issues it would be a valid concern. But with a rookie that wasn't given starter reps until the season was almost over? I just don't understand that. In three starts he has a QB rating over 80. He threw for more TDs than Interceptions. Considering the fact that all QBs get better after their rookie seasons, why would anyone think Tebow won't?

SoCalBronco
01-03-2011, 10:54 PM
Luck is very polished and pretty accurate. He has a very good understanding of the pro style passing game combined with solid physical talent. I still don't want to upset the whole apple cart and sacrifice a large number of assets to improve upon an area that isn't currently a great weakness. I'm not denying that this kid is a flat out stud, but I think we would still get more overall value by sticking with Tebow and trading down a couple times in the first round to amass a large number of quality draft choices to hit multiple need spots without spending a huge chunk of cash. That's the proper way to do it, IMO.

Luck is a very good player, though, no question.

bombquixote
01-03-2011, 10:55 PM
three games is relevent to an all caps doucheoff about his throwing abilities?


As a rookie?


Really?















I mean, really?

Okay, tell me how many starts Tebow gets until his inability to pass at an NFL level becomes relevant.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 10:56 PM
I don't know. Apparently they threw a lot of screens. But I didn't watch Florida. I'm only talking about what I've seen of Tebow with the Broncos...which really is all that's relevant.

Again, he's a rookie. Have you watched rookies QBs play before? Tebow's struggles are all pretty common for guys that are trying to transition from the sloppy coverages and simplified defenses of college to the tight, viciously predatory defenses of the NFL.

Again, rookie QBs struggle. It's a part of the game. Most of them struggle a lot more than Tebow has.

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 10:57 PM
So Tebow can't do those things ever because he's struggling to do them as a rookie? I just don't get it. I actually agree with some of what you are saying in terms of what he is struggling with. It seemed that the Chargers coverages in particular gave him real trouble. He was very hesitant all game long. No question. And if he were a 2nd or 3rd year QB having such issues it would be a valid concern. But with a rookie that wasn't given starter reps until the season was almost over? I just don't understand that. In three starts he has a QB rating over 80. He threw for more TDs than Interceptions. Considering the fact that all QBs get better after their rookie seasons, why would anyone think Tebow won't?

Its strange.

People believe irrational things about Tebow, and they cling to them irrationally.

OABB
01-03-2011, 10:58 PM
Okay, tell me how many starts Tebow gets until his inability to pass at an NFL level becomes relevant.

You should quit while your behind.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 10:58 PM
Okay, tell me how many starts Tebow gets until his inability to pass at an NFL level becomes relevant.

The better question is how you can make a determination on his ability to throw in three games. I mean how do you do that and take yourself seriously?

peacepipe
01-03-2011, 11:00 PM
The better question is how you can make a determination on his ability to throw in three games. I mean how do you do that and take yourself seriously?WHAT! you can't use 3 games to determine his ability to throw but YOU can use it to to determine he's the QBOTF.

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 11:01 PM
Okay, tell me how many starts Tebow gets until his inability to pass at an NFL level becomes relevant.

Tebow gets 3 years. Just like every other rookie.

snowspot66
01-03-2011, 11:03 PM
The issue is, his delivery is too slow, and he's consistently inaccurate. HE CANNOT PASS THE BALL. He can't hit timing routes over the middle because when he sees receivers coming open, it's already too late. He can't get the ball out of his hand in time. We saw it all day Sunday: He starts to throw, but hesitates, holds the ball. Then starts dodging the rush until Brandon Lloyd improvises himself open downfield. It's fun to watch, but it's not playoff football. When you can't hit the slot on a timing route, you're looking at a lot of three-and-outs, and worse, a QB who's going to take too many hits trying to make things happen because he can't hit the simple read.


He can't hit the timing routes because he hasn't had any work on them all year. It takes practice. Two tenths of a second on his motion is not going to affect a timing route. Him being comfortable to throw to a spot instead of a receiver is going to make or break him on timing routes. His throwing motion is irrelevant. He is plenty accurate enough. I don't care how many screens you throw hitting 70% of your passes is damned impressive. His worst year was 64%. He did that in college. To be successful in the NFL you just need to hit 60%.

Tebow's success or failure rests on the mental aspects of playing QB and Luck is no different.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 11:04 PM
Its strange.

People believe irrational things about Tebow, and they cling to them irrationally.

It seems so. I've never seen a rookie QB show so much promise and have so many completely fail to see it. The guy was far better than Cutler in his rookie season, especially when you factor in how much worse the team is now, and yet no one doubted Cutler after that first season. They all thought he was the second coming of Elway.

Yet Tebow, "the long-term project", comes in and breaks records in each of his first three starts, and all people can do is criticize him because he doesn't play like an all-pro veteran QB.

It's amazing.

Steve Sewell
01-03-2011, 11:04 PM
Could you imagine if cutler came back from 17 down and than a week later almost came back from 19 what this place would be like. If cutler did it as a four yet vet the knob slobbering here would be epic.

If cutler did that as a rookie? Omg no one would talk about another qb at all. It really is all about the strength of the pass here. It really is just that. If tebow threw it harder or looked prettier throwing no one would even think for a second about luck.

Do people even understand a winner when they see it?

I think a lot of people are more concerned with fantasy football stats and looking pretty winning.

I'm big on Tebow because he seems to have that ability to move the chains and make plays under extreme adversity. This is a quality that will not regress or go away. The one thing he has control over, which is improving as a passer, is what makes him such an intriguing prospect. And, I wouldn't bet against a guy like him when it comes to doing whatever it takes to improve in that area.

People/haters will laugh now, but I guarantee you that there are coaches in the AFC West and the NFL in general that are absolutely ****ting their pants when thinking about what could become of Tebow if the Broncos put a solid running game and defense behind him.

OABB
01-03-2011, 11:05 PM
WHAT! you can't use 3 games to determine his ability to throw but YOU can use it to to determine he's the QBOTF.

yes. It's called football. You see, there are scouts and coaches and a thing called the draft. Typically, a first round qb is considered the qbotf until he proves otherwise.

It's quite interesting really how it all works. If you ever get confused, look at the other 31 teams over, let's say, the last 100 years for reference on how things work.

peacepipe
01-03-2011, 11:07 PM
Tebow gets 3 years. Just like every other rookie.why waste 3 yrs to figure out he's going to be a bust.

Archer81
01-03-2011, 11:07 PM
My nipple sense is tingling.


:Broncos:

Archer81
01-03-2011, 11:07 PM
why waste 3 yrs to figure out he's going to be a bust.


And you know this after three games how?


:Broncos:

bombquixote
01-03-2011, 11:09 PM
Again, he's a rookie. Have you watched rookies QBs play before? Tebow's struggles are all pretty common for guys that are trying to transition from the sloppy coverages and simplified defenses of college to the tight, viciously predatory defenses of the NFL.

Again, rookie QBs struggle. It's a part of the game. Most of them struggle a lot more than Tebow has.

Yeah, I've seen some rookies play. Yeah, they all make mistakes. The ones who stick around can throw the ball and hit timing routes...even as rookies.

Look, I get that you guys like Tebow a lot, and so do I. I like his character and his athleticism. I hope he proves me wrong, but I just don't see him working out. He can't hit the throws he's eventually going to need to make.

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 11:09 PM
People/haters will laugh now, but I guarantee you that there are coaches in the AFC West and the NFL in general that are absolutely ****ting their pants when thinking about what could become of Tebow if the Broncos put a solid running game and defense behind him.

Concrete Cyanide.

OABB
01-03-2011, 11:10 PM
It seems so. I've never seen a rookie QB show so much promise and have so many completely fail to see it. The guy was far better than Cutler in his rookie season, especially when you factor in how much worse the team is now, and yet no one doubted Cutler after that first season. They all thought he was the second coming of Elway.

Yet Tebow, "the long-term project", comes in and breaks records in each of his first three starts, and all people can do is criticize him because he doesn't play like an all-pro veteran QB.

It's amazing.


I wasn't joking when I mentioned arm strength or a pretty spiral being all people cared about. I used to bash rivers for his shot putting when I defended cutler. I learned my lesson than. I seriously think people don't line the way tebow looks when he throws. Seriously. I think that's the only contention.

It's kind of gay when you think about it. Tebow has blown cutlers rookie season away, but I bet you, most people here remember cutlers deep ball in his first preseason game more than they remember tebows comeback in a real one.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 11:11 PM
WHAT! you can't use 3 games to determine his ability to throw but YOU can use it to to determine he's the QBOTF.

You can look at what he did well, project out that he will improve in the areas he struggled in, and can come to a determination that he should be given a chance beyond three games.

I believe he's going to be a great QB. I believed that before he got his first start. Going off what he's actually done I can't say whether or not he's going to be a great QB. I can say that he seems to have enough potential to warrant giving him a couple years to develop.

This is how it's done in the NFL, at least by teams that don't want to be cellar dwellers for decades. You draft prospects and then develop them. You don't play them 3 games and then dump them because they aren't playing at an all-pro level.

Archer81
01-03-2011, 11:11 PM
I wasn't joking when I mentioned arm strength or a pretty spiral. He'll I used to bash rivers for his shot putting when I defended cutler. Unlearned my lesson than. I seriously think people don't line the way tebow looks when've throws. Seriously. I think that's the only contention.

It's kind of gay when you think about it. Tebow has blown cutlers rookie season away, but I bet you, most people here remember cutlers deep ball in his first preseason game more than they remember tebows comeback in a real one.

Cutler who?


:Broncos:

peacepipe
01-03-2011, 11:12 PM
yes. It's called football. You see, there are scouts and coaches and a thing called the draft. Typically, a first round qb is considered the qbotf until he proves otherwise.It's quite interesting really how it all works. If you ever get confused, look at the other 31 teams over, let's say, the last 100 years for reference on how things work. As I've stated before, if it wasn't for the moronic move McD made to trade back into the 1st, Tebow would never have been drafted in the 1st. most had him going in the 2nd-3rd round.being drafted in the 1st doesn't make you a 1st rd quality player.

broncocalijohn
01-03-2011, 11:13 PM
Luck going to the NFC East wouldnt be a bad thing for us. Dude has talent and is taught by a very good pro style coach. I will take my chances with what we have and go defense. I hope Carolina takes him then we have no worries about that situation and get back to the defense draft board.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 11:14 PM
I wasn't joking when I mentioned arm strength or a pretty spiral being all people cared about. I used to bash rivers for his shot putting when I defended cutler. I learned my lesson than. I seriously think people don't line the way tebow looks when've throws. Seriously. I think that's the only contention.

It's kind of gay when you think about it. Tebow has blown cutlers rookie season away, but I bet you, most people here remember cutlers deep ball in his first preseason game more than they remember tebows comeback in a real one.

I don't think it's most people. It was pretty clear that Mile High was completely electrified by Tebow in the Houston game. Cutler never came close to that in three years with us. These boards are a different matter. There seems to be a vocal portion here that have far more opinions than sense.

cutthemdown
01-03-2011, 11:16 PM
Going tebow means playing an unorthodox style IMO. I'm not against it but people have to be prepared for that. I do think we go next yr with Tebow and see how he does. Go ahead and let him run around and be Tebow. It won't hurt to just play that style for a year and give fans something fun to watch while team searches for an identity on defense and implements a new staff.

Broncos will probably have at least 3 rookies that will be asked to start of defense so it should at least be fun because we won't have to hope for retread players we know stink to make an impact.

We will have the optimism that our new rookies will be studs.

If we got Peterson and a Dlineman draft and they both were good, it really would make a huge difference. But Tebow is at least fun to watch. Too soon to say he can't win.

OABB
01-03-2011, 11:16 PM
As I've stated before, if it wasn't for the moronic move McD made to trade back into the 1st, Tebow would never have been drafted in the 1st. most had him going in the 2nd-3rd round.being drafted in the 1st doesn't make you a 1st rd quality player.

Even a 2nd is a qbotf. And tebow is a first round talent, no question. I Jamarcus Russel, Vince young, Ryan leaf, Tim couch, Joey harrington, etc are first rounders, than the greatest College qb of all time certainly is.

footstepsfrom#27
01-03-2011, 11:17 PM
It seems so. I've never seen a rookie QB show so much promise and have so many completely fail to see it. The guy was far better than Cutler in his rookie season, especially when you factor in how much worse the team is now, and yet no one doubted Cutler after that first season. They all thought he was the second coming of Elway.

Yet Tebow, "the long-term project", comes in and breaks records in each of his first three starts, and all people can do is criticize him because he doesn't play like an all-pro veteran QB.

It's amazing.
It's because a lot of these fans have hidden agendas reguarding him. It may have nothing to do with religion in some cases, but more to do with the fact that people have entrenched and fortified themselves reguarding anything they believe about this season, McDaniels, his decisions, his players, his draft picks, his coaches, his offense...basically it's an unwillingness to admit any previous opinion could be wrong. Nobody could ask for anything more than Tebow's given already, and for the dummies who say he can't throw the ball at the NFL level...please give us a break from that. I saw him sling laser accurate passes on out patterns that fit through windows of a few inches right in front of defensive backs who were there to make a play on the ball but didn't. This guy has an NFL arm and a good one, it's just going to take time to work with him like it does any rookie to iron out the kinks, learn things he's not done yet and work hard. We know he'll put in the work to do that, so I'm not worried in the least about him.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 11:19 PM
As I've stated before, if it wasn't for the moronic move McD made to trade back into the 1st, Tebow would never have been drafted in the 1st. most had him going in the 2nd-3rd round.being drafted in the 1st doesn't make you a 1st rd quality player.

Saying it doesn't make it true. There have been multiple reports that other teams were going to make a move on Tebow in the late 1st or early 2nd. Most of the draftniks had moved Tebow up into that range prior to the draft as well. So you really don't have a leg to stand on. Besides, your logic is terribly flawed. If a team takes a QB in the 1st round he's a 1st round QB. Period. He has those resources invested in him, and must be treated as such.

peacepipe
01-03-2011, 11:19 PM
Even a 2nd is a qbotf. And tebow is a first round talent, no question. I Jamarcus Russel, Vince young, Ryan leaf, Tim couch, Joey harrington, etc are first rounders, than the greatest College qb of all time certainly is.

thanx for proving my point, being drafted in the 1st rd doesn't make you 1st rd quality.

broncocalijohn
01-03-2011, 11:20 PM
Tebow gets 3 years. Just like every other rookie.

Since when is that some kind of rule? Around here it was coaches get 3 years and we know what happened there. If he ****s the bed next year, we look for some possible help.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 11:21 PM
thanx for proving my point, being drafted in the 1st rd doesn't make you 1st rd quality.

He didn't prove your point. A player is a 1st round prospect if they are drafted in the 1st round. Period. Whether or not they bust is not the point, as it can not be foreseen prior to the pick being made.

OABB
01-03-2011, 11:22 PM
thanx for proving my point, being drafted in the 1st rd doesn't make you 1st rd quality.

Nope. Your point was that tebow was not worth a first. You called mcd a dummy for doing it. If you want to be respected in an argument, stuck to it.
You are all over the place now, and it's gross to watch.

Taco John
01-03-2011, 11:22 PM
why waste 3 yrs to figure out he's going to be a bust.


Even if Tebow turns out to be a bust, I wouldn't see it as a waste at all. This team needs to build a defense. That is going to take time. Tebow is also going to take time to develop. Why should we re-invest in a QB who may or may not work out, and sacrifice our defensive needs at this point in time? Why wouldn't we want to use our draft pick(s) to amass a defense, and then determine after a year or two of evaluation whether or not we need to start grooming a replacement?

Keeping Tebow costs us absolutely nothing right now, and buys us time to build. Trading up for Andrew Luck will cost us plenty, and that cost will come with impatience.

It would be a terrible move to reinvest at the QB position in this draft. How many times does this team have to go through this? Bowlen just fired two guys in a row who had problems with neglecting defense. Do we really want to start another era on the same foot?

Taco John
01-03-2011, 11:25 PM
thanx for proving my point, being drafted in the 1st rd doesn't make you 1st rd quality.

Being drafted in the first round makes you a significant investment to the team that drafted you. You don't get that value back unless things work out on the field.

footstepsfrom#27
01-03-2011, 11:26 PM
Yeah, I've seen some rookies play. Yeah, they all make mistakes. The ones who stick around can throw the ball and hit timing routes...even as rookies.

Look, I get that you guys like Tebow a lot, and so do I. I like his character and his athleticism. I hope he proves me wrong, but I just don't see him working out. He can't hit the throws he's eventually going to need to make.
That is false. He's hit numerous throws he needed to make, some of them very difficult ones. Are you even watching the game? You didn't see Tebow hit out patterns on the sidelines right in front of Charger cornerbacks? The kid makes several wow throws a game in fact, if you let go of the bias you'll see these things more clearly.

OABB
01-03-2011, 11:27 PM
Being drafted in the first round makes you a significant investment to the team that drafted you. You don't get that value back unless things work out on the field.

Now you just made his point that an investment was not worth the pic, or something....

What's it gonna be this time peacepipe?

OABB
01-03-2011, 11:29 PM
Did bombquixote sober up and leave? His posts were awesomely bad. Gonna miss him.

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 11:31 PM
Since when is that some kind of rule? Around here it was coaches get 3 years and we know what happened there. If he ****s the bed next year, we look for some possible help.

It has to do with contracts and commitment.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 11:31 PM
Since when is that some kind of rule? Around here it was coaches get 3 years and we know what happened there. If he ****s the bed next year, we look for some possible help.

I don't disagree. If he's absolutely awful, and seems to make no real progress through the season, then it may be time to go a different direction. On the other hand if he shows promise and seems to be developing but doesn't put up the best year statistically, we should stick with him for a year or two more. QBs require patience to develop.

Archer81
01-03-2011, 11:34 PM
McDaniels is more an exception.

Mike Smith in Atlanta got the rookie QB in year 1, and now in year 3 the Falcons are the top seed in the NFC. If you are a franchise hitting or stuck in the doldrums, that is a useful roadmap. The next HC has an easier job...the Broncos have a lil baby QB to mold. They just need to find the right guy and give him the time.

:Broncos:

peacepipe
01-03-2011, 11:36 PM
Even if Tebow turns out to be a bust, I wouldn't see it as a waste at all. This team needs to build a defense. That is going to take time. Tebow is also going to take time to develop. Why should we re-invest in a QB who may or may not work out, and sacrifice our defensive needs at this point in time? Why wouldn't we want to use our draft pick(s) to amass a defense, and then determine after a year or two of evaluation whether or not we need to start grooming a replacement?

Keeping Tebow costs us absolutely nothing right now, and buys us time to build. Trading up for Andrew Luck will cost us plenty, and that cost will come with impatience.

It would be a terrible move to reinvest at the QB position in this draft. How many times does this team have to go through this? Bowlen just fired two guys in a row who had problems with neglecting defense. Do we really want to start another era on the same foot?My entire point,overall, is Tebow is going to need 3-4 yrs yrs to learn how to play QB in the NFL. QB sneaks aren't going to cut it. he's not at FL no more, he missed badly on simple plays against SD. on plays any rookie should make,plays that are specificly designed for rookie QBs. I don't think Bowlen is going to have the patience to develop a Tim Tebow.Any QB comming out of the draft should know how to throw from the pocket. He should 1st & foremost be more comfortable throwing from the pocket.

footstepsfrom#27
01-03-2011, 11:41 PM
My entire point,overall, is Tebow is going to need 3-4 yrs yrs to learn how to play QB in the NFL. QB sneaks aren't going to cut it. he's not at FL no more, he missed badly on simple plays against SD. on plays any rookie should make,plays that are specificly designed for rookie QBs. I don't think Bowlen is going to have the patience to develop a Tim Tebow.Any QB comming out of the draft should know how to throw from the pocket. He should 1st & foremost be more comfortable throwing from the pocket.
Which plays would those be?

OABB
01-03-2011, 11:41 PM
My entire point,overall, is Tebow is going to need 3-4 yrs yrs to learn how to play QB in the NFL. QB sneaks aren't going to cut it. he's not at FL no more, he missed badly on simple plays against SD. on plays any rookie should make,plays that are specificly designed for rookie QBs. I don't think Bowlen is going to have the patience to develop a Tim Tebow.Any QB comming out of the draft should know how to throw from the pocket. He should 1st & foremost be more comfortable throwing from the pocket.

Like Steve young? Like mike vick? Like Terry Bradshaw? Maybe some guys need more than three games?

Archer81
01-03-2011, 11:43 PM
My entire point,overall, is Tebow is going to need 3-4 yrs yrs to learn how to play QB in the NFL. QB sneaks aren't going to cut it. he's not at FL no more, he missed badly on simple plays against SD. on plays any rookie should make,plays that are specificly designed for rookie QBs. I don't think Bowlen is going to have the patience to develop a Tim Tebow.Any QB comming out of the draft should know how to throw from the pocket. He should 1st & foremost be more comfortable throwing from the pocket.


You condemn Tebow for making mistakes ALL rookies make. It does not matter if you specifically design plays for a rookie QB. What they see and what their instict is overrules what they have been coached to do in the NFL in their first year.

As an example, Sam Bradford had a simple curl route designed to give him an easy completion. He locked on to the guy from the snap, threw it when that WR was double covered and it got picked. Ultimately, St Louis lost the game. Because he was a rookie and made a rookie mistake. But I suppose Tebow is somehow so deficient as a QB because he went to Florida that it doesnt matter to you if all rookie QB's make the same bad decisions.

:Broncos:

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 11:43 PM
My entire point,overall, is Tebow is going to need 3-4 yrs yrs to learn how to play QB in the NFL. QB sneaks aren't going to cut it. he's not at FL no more, he missed badly on simple plays against SD. on plays any rookie should make,plays that are specificly designed for rookie QBs. I don't think Bowlen is going to have the patience to develop a Tim Tebow.Any QB comming out of the draft should know how to throw from the pocket. He should 1st & foremost be more comfortable throwing from the pocket.

John Elway flat-out sucked in his first games. He even lined up under the guard!

Imagine if Tebow would have lined up under the guard! Guys like you would be haughtily sporting a pic of it as your avatar. You would have done the same with Elway if you knew he was a conservative back then and were as entrenched politically as you are.

When Tebow made a mistake in his first game, he turned it into a 40-yard TD run.

Tebow = Beast Mode. Period.

Dudes a stud of a player.

OABB
01-03-2011, 11:47 PM
Also, why do we ignore the beautiful passes tebow made? Likethe deep ball to gaffney? The deep ball Lloyd dropped? The back foot flick to lloyd for a first down? The outs that were on the money? He'll even his screen passes have been beautiful. I just can't believe how utterly narrowminded and stupid some people are.

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2011, 11:50 PM
Also, whybdo we ignore the beautiful passes tebow made? Blikethe deep ball to gaffney? The deep ball Lloyd dropped? The back foot flick to lloyd for a first down? The outs that were on the money? He'll even his screen passes have been beautiful. I just can't believe how utterly narrowminded and stupid some people are.

He can sell the screen pretty well.

The play that he made where I became convinced that he could throw was against Houston. He got flushed out of the pocket and scrambled left...he fired a laser on the run about 10 yards down the field to Eddie Royal for a first down. Tebow fit it in a tight window and Eddie made a nice play in holding onto the ball when he got hit. It was a "wow" throw.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 11:51 PM
My entire point,overall, is Tebow is going to need 3-4 yrs yrs to learn how to play QB in the NFL. QB sneaks aren't going to cut it. he's not at FL no more, he missed badly on simple plays against SD. on plays any rookie should make,plays that are specificly designed for rookie QBs. I don't think Bowlen is going to have the patience to develop a Tim Tebow.Any QB comming out of the draft should know how to throw from the pocket. He should 1st & foremost be more comfortable throwing from the pocket.

Umm...Tebow has done most of his throwing from the pocket so far. He's also made some of his best completions from the pocket. He's also struggled from the pocket at times. And that is normal for ALL rookies. That you don't seem to know this makes me wonder if you've ever watched a rookie QB play before.

OABB
01-03-2011, 11:54 PM
Umm...Tebow has done most of his throwing from the pocket so far. He's also made some of his best completions from the pocket. He's also struggled from the pocket at times. And that is normal for ALL rookies. That you don't seem to know this makes me wonder if you've ever watched a rookie QB play before.

I'm wondering if he's ever even watched football before.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 11:54 PM
Also, why do we ignore the beautiful passes tebow made? Likethe deep ball to gaffney? The deep ball Lloyd dropped? The back foot flick to lloyd for a first down? The outs that were on the money? He'll even his screen passes have been beautiful. I just can't believe how utterly narrowminded and stupid some people are.

It truly is baffling. I can understand skepticism. I can understand doubts and concerns. But the unrealistic criticism lobbed at Tebow constantly puzzles me to no end. Fans should be excited and hopeful when it comes to Tebow, and yet there's all these people who simply can't do anything but bash him and hope for Luck.

Requiem
01-03-2011, 11:57 PM
I strongly hated the move for Tim Tebow, but after the past few weeks, I'm beginning to soften on it. Even if he never becomes a franchise QB, perhaps he could always play a role with us on the team, a role that Josh used maybe a few times (near goal line, special packages) and ignored for most of his time here.

In limited action, he brought us near 1,000 yards of total offense and 11 touchdowns as a rookie. That can't be said for many players offensively in the draft in first-rounds on a consistent basis.

He has a lot to improve upon, but the future looks bright. Everyone knows he is gonna work damn hard to be the best he can be, and hopefully with the right coaching staff in place, that will happen.

**** LUCK.

broncocalijohn
01-04-2011, 12:01 AM
It has to do with contracts and commitment.

not at starting. Contract is probably not guaranteed either. No player gets carte blanche of three years.

epicSocialism4tw
01-04-2011, 12:02 AM
Umm...Tebow has done most of his throwing from the pocket so far. He's also made some of his best completions from the pocket. He's also struggled from the pocket at times. And that is normal for ALL rookies. That you don't seem to know this makes me wonder if you've ever watched a rookie QB play before.

Sometimes veteran MVP's struggle from the pocket.

In fact, Tebow outplayed Peyton Manning against the Chargers this season.
Manning: 31/48 for 285 yards with 2 TDs and 4 INTs

How 'bout Tom Brady against SD?
Brady: 19/32 for 159 yards with 1 TD and 0 INTs

What about Kyle Orton against SD?
Orton: 24/38 for 217 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT

All three of their rushing totals didnt come anywhere near 94 yards and a TD.

bombquixote
01-04-2011, 05:15 PM
That is false. He's hit numerous throws he needed to make, some of them very difficult ones. Are you even watching the game? You didn't see Tebow hit out patterns on the sidelines right in front of Charger cornerbacks? The kid makes several wow throws a game in fact, if you let go of the bias you'll see these things more clearly.

Yes, I saw that. What I also saw was that he almost never threw timing routes over the middle because his delivery is too slow. Go rewatch it. You'll see what I'm talking about.

bombquixote
01-04-2011, 05:16 PM
Did bombquixote sober up and leave? His posts were awesomely bad. Gonna miss him.

Actually, religious arguments give me a headache. And that's clearly what this is for you.

epicSocialism4tw
01-04-2011, 05:17 PM
Yes, I saw that. What I also saw was that he almost never threw timing routes over the middle because his delivery is too slow. Go rewatch it. You'll see what I'm talking about.

Tim Tebow started playing first team reps 14 games into the season.

Its understandable that his timing was not yet perfect.

Agamemnon
01-04-2011, 05:19 PM
Yes, I saw that. What I also saw was that he almost never threw timing routes over the middle because his delivery is too slow. Go rewatch it. You'll see what I'm talking about.

It couldn't be that he doesn't have the experience and hasn't had enough reps in practice over the year. No, it must be his delivery. ;)

snowspot66
01-04-2011, 06:04 PM
Yes, I saw that. What I also saw was that he almost never threw timing routes over the middle because his delivery is too slow. Go rewatch it. You'll see what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry but a timing route is not dependent on a fraction of a second longer release. It's dependent on both the QB and the receiver being on the same timing regardless if it's a fraction slower or fraction faster. A couple weeks of first team work is not enough time to develop that timing. Especially when installing game plans instead of working on developing the timing.

Tebow's release is irrelevant.

OABB
01-04-2011, 06:42 PM
Actually, religious arguments give me a headache. And that's clearly what this is for you.

What? You are a moron. I never mentioned religion. I mentioned that you were stupid to say he can't throw. Clearly I am too smart to talk to you.

bombquixote
09-06-2012, 10:27 PM
Bump

maven
09-07-2012, 01:33 AM
Look at all these Tebow nuthuggers.

Ha!Ha!Ha!

**** Luck?

Yah, go Tebow!

Ha!Ha!