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View Full Version : Could Carolina pull off a Hershel Walker deal for Luck?


footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Remember how the Cowboys parlayed Minnesota GM Mike Lynn's fascination with Herschel Walker into a draft bonanza that produced 3 Superbowls in the biggest blockbuster trade in NFL history back in '89? No...most of you don't I guess...lol. Basically Mike Lynn was hosed by Jerry Jones big time.

So I started thinking about the strategic nature of the timing for this Andrew Luck sweepstakes, coming as it does with a potential NFL lockout happening as well as the possibility the league locks in the 2012 draft order...and a startling reality occured to me...if two things happen, history might repeat itself.

Imagine the following:

--John Gruden goes to Carolina as their new coach (he likes Tebow)
--The NFL locks out the players in 2011, and locks in the draft order for 2012

If those two things happen...yes it's a long shot but play along here... ;D ...this will be fun I promise...Carolina could rebuild in two years from 2-14 to a playoff team by hosing the Broncos for Andrew Luck and a few additional maneuvers.

Gruden loves Tebow, so he trades the #1 pick for Tebow, the #2 pick, our 2nd this year and our #1 next season. (their gonne get a ****-load of picks from somewhere don't kid yourself) This could almost be reasonably sold to Denver's fan base, especially considering who it is that would do the selling...Elway himself...I say "almost".) The deal would be two picks near the top of the draft, and a 2nd rounder plus Tebow, who we won't need since we would then have Luck. In other words, for the "next Peyton Manning", we surrender our wonderfully exciting project QB, (who needs work according to Elway himself), and two picks near the top of the draft plus a 2nd rounder. Having the Dolphins #2 next year would reduce the sting a bit.

Taking advantage of Elway's fondness for Luck, plus the fact that Harbaugh is now in Denver AND the fact that Denver can hand them tremendous flexibility with the #2 pick...Gruden does the following...check it out:

He trades down from our former #2 spot to say, #6 plus a 2nd and a 3rd rounder for that pick in this draft.

Carolina's potential draft bonanza

1. Tim Tebow
2. Nick Fairley (Bowers, etc).
3. Denver's pick at approx #34 in the 2nd round and our 3rd rounder, approx #66 overall (The order changes round by round with teams with the same record switching positions but this is close enough).
4. Second trading partner's #2 pick, about #38 overall, plus their 3rd rounder, probably about #70
5. 2012-Panthers have locked in the #1 pick plus Denver's locked in pick at the #2 spot

This would be Walker like...

Tebow
Fairley (or Bowers, etc)
2011-picks at #33, #34, #38, #65, #66 and #70 (approximate order)
2012- picks at #1, #2, #33

In other words, Carolina could parlay Andrew Luck into a windfall that combined with their own picks, could conceivably give them 4 first round picks, (or players picked in the first round including Tebow) plus four 2nds and three 3rds in the next two years...a total of 11 players picked in the top 70 over the next two drafts. With a rookie cap coming...why not?

That's almost exactly how the Cowboys built their dynasty off the trade for Hershel Walker. ;D

ayjackson
01-02-2011, 01:22 PM
except that Walker was an established pro....

Mr.Meanie
01-02-2011, 01:25 PM
Gruden loves Tebow, so he trades the #1 pick for Tebow, the #2 pick, our 2nd this year and our #1 next season.

If this happens I will likely throw myself off a building.

tsiguy96
01-02-2011, 01:28 PM
gruden is not going to carolina. already reported today. speculation on that is silly.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 01:29 PM
except that Walker was an established pro....
An OLD established pro...one who was not a QB.

Does anyone remember that Al Davis offered much more than Denver did for Elway? I think it was 3 1's and 3 2's or something like that.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 01:31 PM
gruden is not going to carolina. already reported today. speculation on that is silly.
Why is that? They have an opening...he's coached in the deep south. I can think of sillier things...like hiring a college coach with 28 wins who built his resume on the strength of two guys finishing at the top of the Heisman balloting and one who has almost no NFL coaching experience.

tsiguy96
01-02-2011, 01:36 PM
Why is that? They have an opening...he's coached in the deep south. I can think of sillier things...like hiring a college coach with 28 wins who built his resume on the strength of two guys finishing at the top of the Heisman balloting and one who has almost no NFL coaching experience.

because its not going to happen, the owner is too cheap and wont hire a big name coach, especially one that doesnt appear to be receiving much interest across the league. go read the recent reports and stop with the fantasies.

im hoping someday that the people here learn that coaching and being a HC is more then the number of years you have been coaching and your resume as coordinator. its about the ability to coordinate and lead a team of coaches and players, and when NFL executives see something like that in harbaugh that they think will apply to their team, they have to go with it. just because hes only coached for 2 years doesnt discount his ability to lead a team and be successful.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 01:51 PM
because its not going to happen, the owner is too cheap and wont hire a big name coach, especially one that doesnt appear to be receiving much interest across the league. go read the recent reports and stop with the fantasies.
The owner is cheap? How much is Peppers making? That's a flimsy argument when there is a new bargaining agreement coming that will cap rookie salaries.
im hoping someday that the people here learn that coaching and being a HC is more then the number of years you have been coaching and your resume as coordinator. its about the ability to coordinate and lead a team of coaches and players, and when NFL executives see something like that in harbaugh that they think will apply to their team, they have to go with it. just because hes only coached for 2 years doesnt discount his ability to lead a team and be successful.
Sounds like something you could have regurgitated from your Josh McDaniels defense files. The fact is...this guy isn't qualified based on his resume if experience means anything...and it does. Does that mean he can't be successful? No of course not...but we have no reason based on his background to believe he's anywhere near the best choice here...unless of course you think Luck is part of this deal as well.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 01:55 PM
Don't get hysterical.

Drek
01-02-2011, 01:55 PM
Why do people continue to concoct fantasies where Luck comes out yet Carolina passes on him?

They need a QB. They spent the entire year flip flopping on Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen. They've obviously seen enough of both and unless their management likes to rock the crack pipe there is no way they feel comfortable with either. You don't pass up prospects like Luck when you need a QB, and you don't trade out on them unless your hand is forced into it.

eddie mac
01-02-2011, 02:30 PM
We need to make our own LUCK.

OBF1
01-02-2011, 02:34 PM
Still.... I fail to see where Luck has even stated he is going pro. I swear ESPN sucks as bad as some of the posters here.

Someone has more time on their hands than the village wino.

Gort
01-02-2011, 02:35 PM
gruden is not going to carolina. already reported today. speculation on that is silly.

footsteps is just throwing sh*t against the wall to see what will stick.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 02:36 PM
Why do people continue to concoct fantasies where Luck comes out yet Carolina passes on him?

They need a QB. They spent the entire year flip flopping on Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen. They've obviously seen enough of both and unless their management likes to rock the crack pipe there is no way they feel comfortable with either. You don't pass up prospects like Luck when you need a QB, and you don't trade out on them unless your hand is forced into it.
Who knows what their new coach will do? Who'd a thought McD would go looking for Matt Cassel?

snowspot66
01-02-2011, 02:46 PM
Who knows what their new coach will do? Who'd a thought McD would go looking for Matt Cassel?

Cassel was offered to us first.

Broncosfreak_56
01-02-2011, 02:48 PM
If that happens, I am not sure if I could be a bronco fan anymore. We have way too many needs to bet the house on a rookie QB.

maven
01-02-2011, 02:54 PM
The owner is cheap? How much is Peppers making? That's a flimsy argument when there is a new bargaining agreement coming that will cap rookie salaries.



The owner is cheap. And Peppers is in Chicago with a fat contract.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-02-2011, 02:56 PM
Draft value board from #1 to #2 is only 400pts on the ESPN board. That is roughly worth the #50 pick. Your scenario of draft value is ridiculous.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

There other flavors of this board but it wont tell you much different of an answer.

Jesterhole
01-02-2011, 03:07 PM
Lol, on what planet would we give up even close to that amount? What if we gave every pick for the next 25 years to move up to take Luck? What happens then?

Beantown Bronco
01-02-2011, 03:20 PM
Giving up 3 first rounders and a 2nd rounder to move up one spot in the draft? C'mon man.....

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 03:26 PM
Still.... I fail to see where Luck has even stated he is going pro. I swear ESPN sucks as bad as some of the posters here.

Someone has more time on their hands than the village wino.
Indeed, you don't think he's whispered these sweet nothings into Elway's ears already on one of their nightly moonlight walks for who knows how long? Tender moments aside, he'd be an idiot to stay at this point since he's going to 1) probably lose his head coach next year; and 2) will never have his NFL value any higher than it is at this moment. He's risking injury and has nothing to gain by staying. Of course there's a chance he's some kind of crazy competitive freak like Tebow and wants to come back for a national championship run but if so he'd probably have said so by no wouldn't he?

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 03:36 PM
People forget what Al Davis offered for Elway, 3 #1's and 3 #2's was the offer if memory serves, or something quite close to that. We benefited not from our offer, but from the fact that Edgar Kaiser knew the Colts moronic owner Robert Irsay outside of the NFL circles. Irsay hated Al Davis and refused to trade him to the Raiders, and he got his rocks off by sending Elway to Kaiser so he could torment the Raiders for the rest of his career. Given the crazy moves we've seen fromm this front office in the last two years, and the fact that Bowlen approved every one of these moves...is it any wonder I might suspect Bowlen would listen to what...JOHN ELWAY has to say? If Elway told him this kid was worth the bounty Davis offered for him to Kaiser or even half that much...Bowlen would jump on a cactus plant and do the Twist if it meant bringing in a guy he imagined might finally rescue this franchise like the Duke did. On the other hand, he's a greedy dude like any other NFL owner, and his finances are somewhat suspect at the moment so he might like to hang onto some of that Tebow jersey money for a rainy day. In the end the fact that Harbaugh is supposedly the new coach...well we're allowed to draw our own conclusions here I think but it's pretty damn coincidental, not to mention convenient that there's this straight line from Luck to Harbaugh to Elway, who just now happens to appear as an untitled front office suit at the same time coaching negotiations would take place and this kid needs to make a decision about his draft status. Yes I'm a conspiracy theorist, absolutely why not? None of this **** makes any sense if you think it all happens by accident, right?

**Edit: It appears it was 3 #1's and 2 #2's if this is correct:

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=74707

Gort
01-02-2011, 03:48 PM
People forget what Al Davis offered for Elway, 3 #1's and 3 #2's was the offer if memory serves, or something quite close to that. We benefited not from our offer, but from the fact that Edgar Kaiser knew the Colts moronic owner Robert Irsay outside of the NFL circles. Irsay hated Al Davis and refused to trade him to the Raiders, and he got his rocks off by sending Elway to Kaiser so he could torment the Raiders for the rest of his career. Given the crazy moves we've seen fromm this front office in the last two years, and the fact that Bowlen approved every one of these moves...is it any wonder I might suspect Bowlen would listen to what...JOHN ELWAY has to say? If Elway told him this kid was worth the bounty Davis offered for him to Kaiser or even half that much...Bowlen would jump on a cactus plant and do the Twist if it meant bringing in a guy he imagined might finally rescue this franchise like the Duke did. On the other hand, he's a greedy dude like any other NFL owner, and his finances are somewhat suspect at the moment so he might like to hang onto some of that Tebow jersey money for a rainy day. In the end the fact that Harbaugh is supposedly the new coach...well we're allowed to draw our own conclusions here I think but it's pretty damn coincidental, not to mention convenient that there's this straight line from Luck to Harbaugh to Elway, who just now happens to appear as an untitled front office suit at the same time coaching negotiations would take place and this kid needs to make a decision about his draft status. Yes I'm a conspiracy theorist, absolutely why not? None of this **** makes any sense if you think it all happens by accident, right?

**Edit: It appears it was 3 #1's and 2 #2's if this is correct:

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=74707

http://www.lebjournal.com/newz/wp-content/insanity1280x1024.jpg

Jesterhole
01-02-2011, 03:55 PM
I'm not sure I'd want Luck for Tebow straight up at this point...

HAT
01-02-2011, 04:24 PM
I doubt Tebow busts out but if he eventually does Barkley will be twice the pro that Luck will.

All you QB junkies were ball washing Locker last year but I told you that Luck and Barkley were better.

GTFO with this Luck talk. Give Timmy his shot and if it goes straight to hell Denver will be in position to take Bark-O next year who will prove to be the best QB to come out of the Pac-10 in over a decade.

Barkley > Luck > Locker

srphoenix
01-02-2011, 04:41 PM
this thread is stupid... none of this will happen, not even worth entertaining or contemplating.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Draft value board from #1 to #2 is only 400pts on the ESPN board. That is roughly worth the #50 pick. Your scenario of draft value is ridiculous.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

There other flavors of this board but it wont tell you much different of an answer.
The purpose of this thread is to

A) Discuss the Carolina Panthers draft prospects
B) Speculate about how the Denver Broncos might get Andrew Luck
C) Guess what John Gruden's future plans are
D) Discuss the value of holding the top pick as the CBA talks near
E) Link this front office to a historically stupid decision of the past

Gort
01-02-2011, 04:47 PM
The purpose of this thread is to

A) Discuss the Carolina Panthers draft prospects
B) Speculate about how the Denver Broncos might get Andrew Luck
C) Guess what John Gruden's future plans are
D) Discuss the value of holding the top pick as the CBA talks near
E) Link this front office to a historically stupid decision of the past

F) Provide attention to Footstepsfrom#27 who is desperately seeking it.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 04:47 PM
As far as the draft value goes, the difference between #1 and #2 is our second, second rounder. That's about it.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-02-2011, 04:49 PM
The point of your thread is try to dissuade some of us who like the idea of trading up for Luck. Dont be coy about it.

And you play out a bounty that we have to give up to get from #2 to #1 that is utterly ridiculous

Jekyll15Hyde
01-02-2011, 04:49 PM
As far as the draft value goes, the difference between #1 and #2 is our second, second rounder. That's about it.

And our Miami 2nd at that... not #34.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 04:57 PM
I still say we could pull off a deal where we send the Panthers our #2 and Tebow and they give us the #1 and their third rounder.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 04:58 PM
F) Provide attention to Footstepsfrom#27 who is desperately seeking it.
For posting a question about the draft? You did read the OP right? I made the point that the move was not historically unpresidented. The rest as I stated from the start...is speculation, meaning as you put it...throwing **** against the wall to see what sticks.

That's what most every thread in here does. ;D

HAT
01-02-2011, 05:02 PM
The purpose of this thread is to

A) Discuss the Carolina Panthers draft prospects
B) Speculate about how the Denver Broncos might get Andrew Luck
C) Guess what John Gruden's future plans are
D) Discuss the value of holding the top pick as the CBA talks near
E) Link this front office to a historically stupid decision of the past

A) Who cares
B) There is no need to draft the 2nd best QB in the Pac-10
C) MNF
D) See A. Take it to a Panthers board
E) What front office?.....The Broncos don't have one yet.

HAT
01-02-2011, 05:04 PM
For posting a question about the draft? You did read the OP right? I made the point that the move was not historically unpresidented. The rest as I stated from the start...is speculation, meaning as you put it...throwing **** against the wall to see what sticks.

That's what most every thread in here does. ;D

Is that what almost happened to Andrew Johnson?

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 05:04 PM
The point of your thread is try to dissuade some of us who like the idea of trading up for Luck. Dont be coy about it.

And you play out a bounty that we have to give up to get from #2 to #1 that is utterly ridiculous
Ridiculous? Not if you understand that Carolina needs this guy more than we do, and they have little or no incentive to trade him. Draft charts and these silly points are meaningless if some team decides they'll pay a king's ransom. I'm merely speculating that we...as our recent history suggests...might be stupid enough to do some kind of deal like this just like the Vikings did once upon a time. Or should we argue that the addition of Elway prevents the Xanders/Ellis/Bowlen three headed monster from making any similar mistake? I'm not opposed to that argument...provided of course Elway wasn't brought here in the first place for the express purpose of landing this guy. I'm not sure what explanation makes any more sense than that one if Sheffter is right about the Harbaugh story.

The point is...speculate on all this.

SoCalBronco
01-02-2011, 05:08 PM
I'm merely speculating that we...as our recent history suggests...might be stupid enough to do some kind of deal like this just like the Vikings did once upon a time.

Given the apparent setup of our FO, I'm almost expecting to get absolutely raped in a trade like this. This is not just possible, but maybe even likely. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Elway pissed away stuff left and right just to satisfy his hard on (Luck). It wouldnt be all that different than when Josh was in charge of the war room...except it might be even more incompetent. The combination of Elway and Xanders is just about the worst thing we could have.

misturanderson
01-02-2011, 05:13 PM
As far as the draft value goes, the difference between #1 and #2 is our second, second rounder. That's about it.

That "draft value" goes out the window when the #1 overall pick is no longer going to be one of the 10 highest paid players in the NFL by default and when the best prospect at the most important position on the field that has come out in the last 10 years is there for the taking.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 05:16 PM
All I'm really saying is this; 3 of the 4 decision makers who made so many bizarre moves in the last two drafts are still in this war room come April. The new 4th guy, the one we are counting on to deliver us from the other three in essence...is so close to the player we're discussing trading for that it's impossible to know if he has inside information about whether he's coming out or not. Is there another NFL team that might be able to say that? Who thinks Elway hasn't talked to Harbaugh and Luck?

Like I said...stranger things have happened with this group. Nobody can doubt that Bowlen signed off on every move Josh wanted...we are looking for our counter balance from a guy that has already said he isn't qualified to be on the draft and personnel discussions as the GM. Fine....but neither is Xanders/Elllis or Bowlen. So given the crazy things we've seen already...who can say what this regime will now do? We're apparently about to hire another offensive coach with almost no NFL experience and a limited resume so it's clear Pat has a system, a pattern if you will...that he's comfortable with. Even if it's not working, he's comfortable with it. Why assume he won't also repeat similar draft day moves like we saw the last two years? Keep in mind we didn't have the #2 pick befoe now...what if we had?

gunns
01-02-2011, 09:51 PM
Given the apparent setup of our FO, I'm almost expecting to get absolutely raped in a trade like this. This is not just possible, but maybe even likely. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Elway pissed away stuff left and right just to satisfy his hard on (Luck). It wouldnt be all that different than when Josh was in charge of the war room...except it might be even more incompetent. The combination of Elway and Xanders is just about the worst thing we could have.

I did not need to read this in print, especially since I've been silently panicing that it might, hoping it was all needless dread. If something like this happens I predict Bowlen will be selling the team shortly. Do they really believe the Broncos lackluster record over the last several years is because of not having an Elway like QB? Did Elway not see a defensive player knock down Favre's pass in the SB? I'm just a lowly 4 10's worker who can see we need defense. Maybe it is just needless dread, please let it be.

ScottXray
01-02-2011, 10:07 PM
And what happens if Luck gets sacked and blows out a knee in tomorrows game, or gets his leg broke in theisman fashion. Then whats his draft status?

The point is Shyt HAPPENS! You can't mortgage the entire teams future on ONE player. Mike Ditka can tell you what happens when you do that.

Carolina MAY get a real bonus of picks if Luck comes out...I just pray that
WE aren't involved in any nonsense like that, no matter Who Elway has a hard-on for.

SoCalBronco
01-02-2011, 10:10 PM
I did not need to read this in print, especially since I've been silently panicing that it might, hoping it was all needless dread.

If it makes you feel better, here's a picture of Eric Decker I thought you might appreciate.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR58I8Ctlt4NTgQ8-pAhLFzcoTRTbpzYhu6p74H2a_OtwTE6I9v

We're still ****ed with this proposed FO setup though. :)

Kaylore
01-02-2011, 10:12 PM
Why do people continue to concoct fantasies where Luck comes out yet Carolina passes on him?

Yeah the whole scenario is a completely improbably hypothetical that isn't even worth entertaining.

And if the Panthers trade out for a bunch of crap, there's nothing we can do about that anyway.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 10:15 PM
Here's something else I thought of. There would be violations if Elway talked to Harbaugh and Luck once he became an officer in an NFL franchise. But up until a couple of days ago, he wasn't. They could talk about anything they wanted to talk about.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-02-2011, 10:20 PM
That "draft value" goes out the window when the #1 overall pick is no longer going to be one of the 10 highest paid players in the NFL by default and when the best prospect at the most important position on the field that has come out in the last 10 years is there for the taking.

Not really out the window but a starting point. If we had to give more than #2,#MiaRd2 and Tebow, I wouldnt do it. There is a point where the price it too high... If CAR has a Tebowner like enthusiasm for Luck, you have to say enough is enough.

And I hope with this and any other trade that they feel out any interest for DJ. If they did and you coax them out of DeAngelo Williams, sign me up. Utter speculation but WTF

misturanderson
01-02-2011, 10:42 PM
Not really out the window but a starting point. If we had to give more than #2,#MiaRd2 and Tebow, I wouldnt do it. There is a point where the price it too high... If CAR has a Tebowner like enthusiasm for Luck, you have to say enough is enough.

And I hope with this and any other trade that they feel out any interest for DJ. If they did and you coax them out of DeAngelo Williams, sign me up. Utter speculation but WTF
I actually don't think we should be even trying to get Luck with how many holes we have defensively. Even if we had the #1 overall pick, I would be all for raping some team out of a ridiculous bounty of picks to get him. I just think that the QB position has been overrated immensely in today's NFL.

If Luck doesn't become the 2nd coming of Brady I think we could improve our team more by trying to fix the defense than by picking him. Brady is the only QB in the NFL currently that I think can win a superbowl without a top-10 team around him. He makes the team that much better on his own. That includes Brees and Manning.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-02-2011, 10:47 PM
I actually don't think we should be even trying to get Luck with how many holes we have defensively. Even if we had the #1 overall pick, I would be all for raping some team out of a ridiculous bounty of picks to get him. I just think that the QB position has been overrated immensely in today's NFL.

If Luck doesn't become the 2nd coming of Brady I think we could improve our team more by trying to fix the defense than by picking him. Brady is the only QB in the NFL currently that I think can win a superbowl without a top-10 team around him. He makes the team that much better on his own. That includes Brees and Manning.

Assuming they would take what I offered or comparable, you have to look at that. Otherwise, emphasize ILB and NT with the early picks based on the best risk/reward scenarios available at the time.

ScottXray
01-02-2011, 10:51 PM
The NFL is ALL about the QB, so much so that , if you don't have one (Elite level QB) you will not be going to the show except if you have an elite Defense. All the rules are about offense protection and point production , becasue THAT is what TV audiences like to watch. Shootouts. Sure , purests like to see a great defensive game now and then but its offense that puts butts in seats.

When we went down 33-14 did you admire the defensive play of San Diego, or did you hope that Tebow could pull off another miracle comeback? Or somehow think that our running game was going to close it out?

misturanderson
01-02-2011, 10:52 PM
Assuming they would take what I offered or comparable, you have to look at that. Otherwise, emphasize ILB and NT with the early picks based on the best risk/reward scenarios available at the time.

I wouldn't be upset if that's what it took. I just think our resources could be better used on defense. I'm not sure that Luck is enough of an upgrade over Tebow to make up for the loss of potentially 2 impact defensive players. I do think that your scenario is a fair enough trade that it would require serious consideration.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-02-2011, 10:54 PM
I wouldn't be upset if that's what it took. I just think our resources could be better used on defense. I'm not sure that Luck is enough of an upgrade over Tebow to make up for the loss of potentially 2 impact defensive players. I do think that your scenario is a fair enough trade that it would require serious consideration.

Who knows, they could actually think DJ is worth a **** and the 2nd becomes the early 3rd?

Cito Pelon
01-02-2011, 10:57 PM
Carolina could certainly reap a bonanza if Luck declares. At this point.

SoCalBronco
01-02-2011, 10:59 PM
Who knows, they could actually think DJ is worth a **** and the 2nd becomes the early 3rd?

DJ is a very good player who is continually unappreciated by fans, despite playing in less than ideal positions and behind **** lines his whole career. It would be horrible if he were moved, but that wouldn't surprise me, since we're now in the business of making constantly horrible decisions.

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2011, 11:00 PM
The NFL is ALL about the QB, so much so that , if you don't have one (Elite level QB) you will not be going to the show except if you have an elite Defense. All the rules are about offense protection and point production , becasue THAT is what TV audiences like to watch. Shootouts. Sure , purests like to see a great defensive game now and then but its offense that puts butts in seats.

When we went down 33-14 did you admire the defensive play of San Diego, or did you hope that Tebow could pull off another miracle comeback? Or somehow think that our running game was going to close it out?

I agree with this post. I was a critic of Tebow pick on draft night but, I love his grit leadership alot easy to root for him. The problems I see though is we'll need a way more talented team around him to cover up his flaws for chance at SB run. A franchise QB with few flaws will carry the team farther with less talent. At this point that dream is only a dream and D needs upgrading.

misturanderson
01-02-2011, 11:11 PM
I agree with this post. I was a critic of Tebow pick on draft night but, I love his grit leadership alot easy to root for him. The problems I see though is we'll need a way more talented team around him to cover up his flaws for chance at SB run. A franchise QB with few flaws will carry the team farther with less talent. At this point that dream is only a dream and D needs upgrading.

Not really. The teams that win the superbowls usually have top 10 defenses (or defenses playing WAY above their regular season levels in the playoffs, see 2006 colts) regardless of how good the QB is. Those defenses more often than not are the deciding factors in the playoffs/superbowl. Having an elite QB gets teams to the playoffs, having an elite team wins superbowls. Most elite teams also happen to have top 10 QBs, so it is often inferred that the QB is the deciding factor even though it isn't.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the best QB in the league can't carry a so-so defense to a superbowl win, but the best defense in the league can absolutely carry a so-so QB/offense to a superbowl victory. Also, no matter who the QB is, without a top 10 scoring D (or one playing like it at the exact right time) you will not win a superbowl. There have only been 3 superbowl winning teams EVER that have allowed 20 or more points per game in the regular season. The 2006 colts were the worst scoring defense ever to win a superbowl and the only reason that happened was because Bob Sanders came back and turned the defense around just in time for their playoff run.

ScottXray
01-02-2011, 11:20 PM
I agree with this post. I was a critic of Tebow pick on draft night but, I love his grit leadership alot easy to root for him. The problems I see though is we'll need a way more talented team around him to cover up his flaws for chance at SB run. A franchise QB with few flaws will carry the team farther with less talent. At this point that dream is only a dream and D needs upgrading.

I agree, This draft HAS to be about Defense. Peterson is a maybe okay pick as he is probably the best pure talented player at his position, but if we don't follow that up with front seven help it would be largely wasted. We need at least ONE impact player on the D line and ILB in this draft. Unfortunately there aren't enough draft picks to fix all the holes (DT,DE, ILB, Safety (CB..MUST resign Champ first.), and A PASS catching TE and a home run threat RB/KR type.

I would prefer a Defense oriented HC with NFL experience and ties first, but the OC/ QB coach has to be able to continue Tebows developement and make him better.

Tebow had a pretty ugly first half this week, but he keeps showing these flashes of potential greatness. I don't think he ever will be a 60+% passer, and he throws some real ducks out there at times. His picks today were because he was late with throws, and his intermediate game is really bad. His long ball is accurate as hell...but he throws those rainbows too often.
Then he makes a play out of nothing and gets the whole team fired up.

In short he has potential, but if he doesn't improve a lot he will not be the answer. He will have to play next year for us to find out.

Jerry Curl
01-03-2011, 01:41 AM
LOL at the thought of this happening. LOL at Matt Barkley being better than Luck, pure gold.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 02:47 AM
In short he has potential, but if he doesn't improve a lot he will not be the answer. He will have to play next year for us to find out.

A universal truth of every rookie QB in the history of the universe. I don't think any QB has ever become elite by not "improving a lot" over their play as a rookie.

Broncoman13
01-03-2011, 04:51 AM
Why do people continue to concoct fantasies where Luck comes out yet Carolina passes on him?

They need a QB. They spent the entire year flip flopping on Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen. They've obviously seen enough of both and unless their management likes to rock the crack pipe there is no way they feel comfortable with either. You don't pass up prospects like Luck when you need a QB, and you don't trade out on them unless your hand is forced into it.

Or unless someone offers a mint that you can't afford to pass up.

It's getting a little annoying that people still think we have two 2nd round picks from Miami remaining. I think it might have been Footsteps saying that in another thread. WE ALREADY USED ONE OF THOSE 2nd ROUND PICKS LAST YEAR! WE HAVE ONE MORE 2nd FROM THE DOLPHINS!

Jesterhole
01-03-2011, 05:04 AM
I agree with this post. I was a critic of Tebow pick on draft night but, I love his grit leadership alot easy to root for him. The problems I see though is we'll need a way more talented team around him to cover up his flaws for chance at SB run. A franchise QB with few flaws will carry the team farther with less talent. At this point that dream is only a dream and D needs upgrading.

What flaws are you talking about? He has the accuracy and the arm to make every throw. Let's give the kid an offseason and training camp with all the reps and see if he gets rid of all the 'flaws'.

mhgaffney
01-03-2011, 05:20 AM
As far as the draft value goes, the difference between #1 and #2 is our second, second rounder. That's about it.

This.

The difference between #1 and # 2 is only what -- about ~400 points.

That's a second round pick.

mhgaffney
01-03-2011, 05:21 AM
We will get a chance to see Luck in action, Monday night.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-03-2011, 07:13 AM
This.

The difference between #1 and # 2 is only what -- about ~400 points.

That's a second round pick.

It is as I have pointed this out earlier but I dont think it holds in this situation.

For me, Luck is all about the price of the deal. If we can give #2, MiaRd2/3rd & Tebow, that is about as high as I would go. Otherwise, he is just too expensive. I dont like Luck enough over Tebow to adopt a 'no price is too high' mentality.