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tsiguy96
01-02-2011, 06:50 AM
per PFT:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/02/this-ones-for-john-elway-set-to-run-broncos/

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that Elway and the Broncos have reached agreement on a deal that will make Elway an executive VP of the team......Former G.M. Brian Xanders will reportedly answer to Elway and Schefter reports the first order of business for Elway will be to try to hire Jim Harbaugh from Stanford. (Wonder if Elway has any connections there?)

Good stuff, though very very scary that a guy with no experience will be making significant team choices. I know hes a good football and business mind, but this really needs to be more like ozzie newsome and less like matt millen. Can someone do a coach chronicle on harbaugh?

Also per PFT: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/12/as-elway-prepares-to-join-broncos-other-teams-nod-and-smile/

Meanwhile, a buzz is emerging in league circles regarding the possibility that Elway will waltz into the Broncos front office, Matt Millen-style, and potentially run a team without the experience or, possibly, the skill to do so.

“Please let the Elway rumor be true!” an executive with another AFC team told us via text message earlier this week.

They absolutely need to understand what his role is, and it should be to assist in making decisions and give his input as someone who played and can still connect with current players. If he goes in and runs the show, this could be a total disaster.

CEH
01-02-2011, 06:54 AM
per PFT:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/02/this-ones-for-john-elway-set-to-run-broncos/



Good stuff. Can someone do a coach chronicle on harbaugh?

Interserting quote about Xanders. "Former GM" yet still in the organization
Someone else has to be coming onboard to compliment Xanders

ayjackson
01-02-2011, 06:55 AM
Everyone around the team insists this is more than a P.R. move and Elway will truly be running the show despite no NFL experience

Thatís exactly what has the rest of the NFL smiling and nodding.

Looks like he`ll have to come from behind again.

BioCore
01-02-2011, 06:55 AM
You would have to think if harbaugh becomes our new HC that it is a lock for Luck to be our 1st round selection if he is available no matter how tebow plays today

dragondawg
01-02-2011, 06:55 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5981059&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

Kaylore
01-02-2011, 06:57 AM
You would have to think if harbaugh becomes our new HC that it is a lock for Luck to be our 1st round selection if he is available no matter how tebow plays today

Well if the Panthers take him, it's a moot point.

tsiguy96
01-02-2011, 06:57 AM
You would have to think if harbaugh becomes our new HC that it is a lock for Luck to be our 1st round selection if he is available no matter how tebow plays today

i wouldnt be sure. a HC job first and foremost is to evaluate his team and its needs and try to fill them. if former players do that, great. but not waste your best resources on areas of strength.

strafen
01-02-2011, 07:01 AM
Interserting quote about Xanders. "Former GM" yet still in the organization
Someone else has to be coming onboard to compliment XandersI think that woud umtimately be the case

go_broncos
01-02-2011, 07:03 AM
I voted for Harbaugh since there were indications that Elway will be involved in hiring HC.
I hope Harbaugh will evaluate Tebow before drafting a QB in first round.

ayjackson
01-02-2011, 07:03 AM
Well if the Panthers take him, it's a moot point.

I wonder if they couldn`t engineer a trade of first rounders if Luck was cold to Carolina.

Jesterhole
01-02-2011, 07:04 AM
The scariest part of this whole deal is John putting himself up for criticism as a Bronco. Worst case scenario, he pulls a Matt Millen and our image of The Duke is forever tarnished in some way.

Good luck John! We need another comeback!

tsiguy96
01-02-2011, 07:04 AM
im definitely not averse to harbaugh, i think i will like that pick. wonder if he would move here though most indications are he wnats to 49ers or michigan.

lostknight
01-02-2011, 07:04 AM
Looks like the other thread just got moved. But a head coach with only two years of pro coaching experience in the NFL? And that for the Oakland Raiders? ugh and bleh.

ayjackson
01-02-2011, 07:06 AM
Looks like the other thread just got moved. But a head coach with only two years of pro coaching experience in the NFL? And that for the Oakland Raiders? ugh and bleh.

Experienced coordinator(s) would help.

ayjackson
01-02-2011, 07:06 AM
I wonder if they couldn`t engineer a trade of first rounders if Luck was cold to Carolina.

Can Luck play baseball?

Jesterhole
01-02-2011, 07:07 AM
Why Harbaugh? His first order of buisness is to hire this guy? Why not do a coaching search, and interview some people? How does Studsville feel about his talk on Monday now?

tsiguy96
01-02-2011, 07:07 AM
Why Harbaugh? His first order of buisness is to hire this guy? Why not do a coaching search, and interview some people? How does Studsville feel about his talk on Monday now?

every team in the NFL has a pretty good indication of who they want to hire before they talk to anyone.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 07:09 AM
Cool. Now we'll trade Tebow to Carolina for the number one pick and take Andrew Luck. :thumbs:

(I'll post this over here, cause this thread was first)

strafen
01-02-2011, 07:12 AM
You would have to think if harbaugh becomes our new HC that it is a lock for Luck to be our 1st round selection if he is available no matter how tebow plays todayWe would have to give up the house to get Luck, unless Carolina thinks Jimmy Clausen is not QBOTF material.
I just don't see how anyone in the right mind giving up the right to get Luck.

However, the unthinkable could happen. At this point Tebow is much better marketable than when he was on draft day.
That's the only way I see this happening. Tebow to Carolina for the rights to get Luck with Harbaugh as our HC.

I still hate the thought of that...

Jesterhole
01-02-2011, 07:12 AM
Cool. Now we'll trade Tebow to Carolina for the number one pick and take Andrew Luck. :thumbs:

(I'll post this over here, cause this thread was first)

I wouldn't want that at this point. Now that we know Tebow can play at this level, I'd rather have him with all the comes with it rather take a chance on a 'sure thing' like Luck.

Jesterhole
01-02-2011, 07:13 AM
every team in the NFL has a pretty good indication of who they want to hire before they talk to anyone.

56% of facts are made up on the spot...

tsiguy96
01-02-2011, 07:15 AM
56% of facts are made up on the spot...

youre right, teams go into interviews with open minds and give everyone a fair shot. like studesville interview, hes gonna get a realistic opportunity to coach this team, right?

bpc
01-02-2011, 07:19 AM
I think Elway will be okay in this one as long as he leaves his bias' at home. I think Xanders has had a run working behind the scenes with enough GM's that this could work. He could fill in where Elway is lacking. Let's also remember that John was an Economics major at Stanford. I think he'll be alright.

As for Harbaugh, I love his toughness and grit. I'll be disappointed if they want to move on from Luck but it's basically a regime change and these things happen. In my eyes though, Tebow reminds me eerily of Harbaugh when he played. Draw up a play in the dirt and go make it happen. Those two would be passionate individuals on the sidelines.

Jesterhole
01-02-2011, 07:19 AM
youre right, teams go into interviews with open minds and give everyone a fair shot. like studesville interview, hes gonna get a realistic opportunity to coach this team, right?

You said every NFL team. We sure didn't go into our last coaching search with a guy in mind. In sound like (somehow) McDaniels got the job during his interview.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 07:20 AM
Online Panthers tickets can be found everywhere, for cheap. Places like ticket exchange show more than a thousand tickets up for sale for future home games.
http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13466609

From a Carolina news station.

Hell, they'd probably throw in their third round pick with the number one for a shot at Tebow.

tsiguy96
01-02-2011, 07:24 AM
You said every NFL team. We sure didn't go into our last coaching search with a guy in mind. In sound like (somehow) McDaniels got the job during his interview.

you sure? he fit the exact mold of what bowlen likes in HCs.

ayjackson
01-02-2011, 07:25 AM
Online Panthers tickets can be found everywhere, for cheap. Places like ticket exchange show more than a thousand tickets up for sale for future home games.
http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13466609

From a Carolina news station.

Hell, they'd probably throw in their third round pick with the number one for a shot at Tebow.

That`s a good point.

I kind of hope Luck doesn`t declare so this temptation isn`t available.

bpc
01-02-2011, 07:26 AM
Carolina could use him, especially still being pretty close to SEC country. They'd also get a top young QB at a bargain compared to the #1 overall selection. I heard the owner is cheap as can be.

At the end of the day, I like Tebow and would rather blow our resources on things other than a QB. It's moves like this that raise red-flags and cause doubts with the fan-base...

baja
01-02-2011, 07:34 AM
I can't help but read this as a floundering Pat Bowlen reaching out for an anchor. He remembers John and the glory years and hands the reins of power to that memory hoping John can give him another come back.

I hope it works out.

Why does Bowlen hand so much power to inexperienced people?

Reeves / Shanahan / McDaniels / and now John Elway.

Beantown Bronco
01-02-2011, 07:36 AM
I can't help but read this as a floundering Pat Bowlen reaching out for an anchor. He remembers John and the glory years and hands the reins of power to that memory hoping John can give him another come back.

I hope it works out

I can already picture Pat on Elway's first day on the job as he walks down the hall, point's at his new corner office and says "This one's for John!"

Jesterhole
01-02-2011, 07:37 AM
I can't help but read this as a floundering Pat Bowlen reaching out for an anchor. He remembers John and the glory years and hands the reins of power to that memory hoping John can give him another come back.

I hope it works out

lol, I doubt that...

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 07:39 AM
I can't help but read this as a floundering Pat Bowlen reaching out for an anchor. He remembers John and the glory years and hands the reins of power to that memory hoping John can give him another come back.

I hope it works out

Makes you wonder. Anyway, makes me wonder. Pat trusts John. I had to laugh when I read PFT's report saying that Elway "...lacks NFL experience." Ha!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 07:50 AM
56% of facts are made up on the spot...

98% of people know that.

baja
01-02-2011, 07:52 AM
I can already picture Pat on Elway's first day on the job as he walks down the hall, point's at his new corner office and says "This one's for John!"

If Elway really has power over Xman that is really rolling the dice. It will be viewed by some as a desperate move made by a confused man reaching out for help.

jsco70
01-02-2011, 07:53 AM
This will be a defining moment in Elway's career. If he's truly as smart as we all think, then he will recognize he has zero experience pulling the strings for an NFL franchise. Therefore, he should also recognize he needs to surround himself with people who know what they're doing. If he fails to make solid hires around him, and expects it will be him, Xanders, and a coach from the college ranks, then we could be in for some serious trouble.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-02-2011, 07:58 AM
This has disaster written all over it.

Can't wait to see them use even more picks when they're short to move up for Luck if he declares.

IHaveALight
01-02-2011, 08:11 AM
+1 for Harbaugh - If it happens I'll be on board
-1 for Luck - Better not trade the Tebow

DivineBronco
01-02-2011, 08:15 AM
we will only be picking humans involved with stanford...I wonder if we can trade for toby gerhart?

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 08:15 AM
For those who point out that the Broncos' conditioning program leaves something to be desired, they should be very happy if Harbaugh is the pick. Gruden was pointing out yesterday that the basis of Harbaugh's football teams is conditioning and what he admired most about Harbaugh was his reliance on fundamentals. Harbaugh went into Stanford and the first thing he did was revitalize the conditioning. He put them in the weight room. If you like linemen who impose their will on the defense, you will like Harbaugh. After all, he's the coach who made Toby Gerhart a star. ;D

Personally speaking, that's my kind of football.

HooptyHoops
01-02-2011, 08:17 AM
I'm alright with Harbaugh....but, I hope Tebow plays well and inspires the D to a win today, so that Luck is an after-thought!

zdoor
01-02-2011, 08:18 AM
If they trade Tebow the fan base will once again be split and the new regime will start from a hole. Big mistake and I would be shocked if they did it. I like Harbaugh but ride with Tebow forget trading for Luck.

Garcia Bronco
01-02-2011, 08:18 AM
56% of facts are made up on the spot...

its 97.6 percent of all statistics that are made up on the spot.

baja
01-02-2011, 08:20 AM
For those who point out that the Broncos' conditioning program leaves something to be desired, they should be very happy if Harbaugh is the pick. Gruden was pointing out yesterday that the basis of Harbaugh's football teams is conditioning and what he admired most about Harbaugh was his reliance on fundamentals. Harbaugh went into Stanford and the first thing he did was revitalize the conditioning. He put them in the weight room. If you like linemen who impose their will on the defense, you will like Harbaugh. After all, he's the coach who made Toby Gerhart a star. ;D

Personally speaking, that's my kind of football.

Isn't that what Mcd was in the process of doing, getting the team bigger and stronger everywhere.

SoDak Bronco
01-02-2011, 08:20 AM
Well if the Panthers take him, it's a moot point.

I know a certain Mr. Elway and Eli Manning that were able to get around that.

frerottenextelway
01-02-2011, 08:21 AM
Tebow ain't going nowhere. If Harbaugh comes in, he'll be coaching Tim Tebow next year, and that'll be a pretty sweet combo.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 08:23 AM
I'd like to see what a former NFL QB like Harbaugh could do with a talented (but raw) guy like Tebow. Would love to see this happen.

baja
01-02-2011, 08:28 AM
John already made a mis step. He should not have announced he was going after Harbaugh, getting him is kind of a long shot and the Broncos being turned down given the current question marks about the team around the league can not be a positive.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-02-2011, 08:29 AM
I know a certain Mr. Elway and Eli Manning that were able to get around that.

And Denver and NY still didn't get their guys for cheap even when both said they wouldn't play for the team that drafted them.

elsid13
01-02-2011, 08:30 AM
John already made a mis step. He should not have announced he was going after Harbaugh, getting him is kind of a long shot and the Broncos being turned down given the current question marks about the team around the league can not be a positive.

Elway hasn't said anything, it all speculation right now.

baja
01-02-2011, 08:34 AM
Elway hasn't said anything, it all speculation right now.

Seemed pretty definitive in the OP;

uote:
Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that Elway and the Broncos have reached agreement on a deal that will make Elway an executive VP of the team......Former G.M. Brian Xanders will reportedly answer to Elway<b> and Schefter reports the first order of business for Elway will be to try to hire Jim Harbaugh from Stanford.

razorwire77
01-02-2011, 08:34 AM
Looks like he`ll have to come from behind again.

I wonder if he'll lean over to Xanders and tell him "We got 'em right where we want 'em!"

maher_tyler
01-02-2011, 08:37 AM
If we take Luck i'll be extremely disappointed in this franchise..how can you look at Tebow and not think he has a chance to be something special?! The dude is a natural leader, good athletic ability, willing to do whatever it takes to get better, gives his all every play and is a likable person!! If we take Luck and he stinks it up..things could get really ugly!!

Hercules Rockefeller
01-02-2011, 08:42 AM
If we take Luck i'll be extremely disappointed in this franchise..how can you look at Tebow and not think he has a chance to be something special?! The dude is a natural leader, good athletic ability, willing to do whatever it takes to get better, gives his all every play and is a likable person!! If we take Luck and he stinks it up..things could get really ugly!!

I don't know if he can become anything special, but he should at least be given a shot next season. This team needs so much help on defense, and gutting 2011 and 2012 of quality picks to get Luck is only going to make it worse.

Karenin
01-02-2011, 08:43 AM
You would have to think if harbaugh becomes our new HC that it is a lock for Luck to be our 1st round selection if he is available no matter how tebow plays today

Do you think before you post, or do you just sit down and type down whatever moronic thoughts are currently running around your little pea brain?

Hercules Rockefeller
01-02-2011, 08:43 AM
Seemed pretty definitive in the OP;

Well that wasn't the original source, since PFT was quoting Schefter and an ESPN article. A league claims JE is going after Harbaugh.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 08:44 AM
Everything is just speculation at this point. Entertaining, but unsubstantial. Kind of like Chinese food. ;D

baja
01-02-2011, 08:45 AM
Do you think before you post, or do you just sit down and type down whatever moronic thoughts are currently running around your little pea brain?

You're a victim of bulling aren't you.

baja
01-02-2011, 08:46 AM
Everything is just speculation at this point. Entertaining, but unsubstantial.<b> Kind of like Chinese food. ;D

Ain't that the truth. One good fart and you are hungry again.

frerottenextelway
01-02-2011, 08:46 AM
How does Brady Quinn fit into this equation?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 08:47 AM
If we take Luck i'll be extremely disappointed in this franchise..how can you look at Tebow and not think he has a chance to be something special?! The dude is a natural leader, good athletic ability, willing to do whatever it takes to get better, gives his all every play and is a likable person!! If we take Luck and he stinks it up..things could get really ugly!!

I get what you're saying. But let's put the brakes on for just a sec. Tebow looked very good last week, and I love his intangibles. But Luck is being compared to a Peyton Manning type talent, an all-time great, who has all the pro skills already, many of which Tebow doesn't have.

I like Tebow. I do. I'm glad he's here. But if we have the chance to draft a all-time talent pro-ready QB... I wouldn't be upset.

Honestly, I won't be upset either way. In fact, I'd rather we address defense and fix something that's been wrong with this team for years. But I won't be apoplectic if we draft Luck.

Dedhed
01-02-2011, 08:48 AM
Someone else has to be coming onboard to compliment Xanders

Um...did you miss the part about Elway?

Bigdawg26
01-02-2011, 08:49 AM
I think this would be a great HC for Tebow. He will get a firey coach who is great in teaching him how to be a great QB. Just think Tebow would have a chance to learn under the best QB coach and the best QB to play the game. Now if we can get somebody to coach the defense

Dedhed
01-02-2011, 08:51 AM
I think this would be a great HC for Tebow. He will get a firey coach who is great in teaching him how to be a great QB. Just think Tebow would have a chance to learn under the best QB coach and the best QB to play the game. Now if we can get somebody to coach the defense
I agree, but it freaks me out a little that 2 Stanford alums will blow the draft to get Luck.

baja
01-02-2011, 08:52 AM
Well that wasn't the original source, since PFT was quoting Schefter and an ESPN article. A league claims JE is going after Harbaugh.

I was going on the fact Schefter made a definite statement that John was going after Harbaugh and he usually doesn't word it that way unless he got the info from the source.

PrimeTime
01-02-2011, 08:53 AM
I posted this same Article in Broncomania along with a video on Jim Harbaughs system and recieved an infraction.

You have received an infraction at Broncos Country Message Boards

You have received an infraction at Broncos Country Message Boards. The site rules are outlined in the Code of Conduct. All users will be held to the
I posted this same article in Broncomania and a video on Jim Harbaughs system recieved an infraction for doing so.

Code of Conduct regardless of whether or not they read it. To find more information on the specifics of the infraction system click here.

Reason: Spam/Off-Topic
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It should have been posted in one of the other threads on Luck.

Also, it's in the wrong forum. That is why you are getting a spam/off-topic infraction.
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This infraction is worth 5 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:

CEH
01-02-2011, 08:54 AM
Um...did you miss the part about Elway?

OK mark this down and get back to me in two weeks when there is a 3rd person besides Elway and Xanders in the FO

I have a pretty good idea who but won't say it right now

Karenin
01-02-2011, 08:54 AM
You're a victim of bulling aren't you.

Dude, go away. If I wanted some old, drunk loser to follow me around, I'd go downtown and start throwing quarters on the ground.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-02-2011, 08:56 AM
I get what you're saying. But let's put the brakes on for just a sec. Tebow looked very good last week, and I love his intangibles. But Luck is being compared to a Peyton Manning type talent, an all-time great, who has all the pro skills already, many of which Tebow doesn't have.

I like Tebow. I do. I'm glad he's here. But if we have the chance to draft a all-time talent pro-ready QB... I wouldn't be upset.


He's being compared to Senior Tenn QB Peyton Manning, who was not considered a lock to be an all-time great when he came out of school. There were people even within the Colts organization who wanted to go with Leaf because he was a more physically gifted QB.

baja
01-02-2011, 08:58 AM
Dude, go away. If I wanted some old, drunk loser to follow me around, I'd go downtown and start throwing quarters on the ground.

I'm sorry the bigger boy and girls have been picking on you. Try an not take it personal they are in pain too and just lashing out.

elsid13
01-02-2011, 08:59 AM
RT @AdamSchefter: Forget about a Jim Harbaugh-Andrew Luck reunion in Carolina. Panthers expected to pursue an NFL asst. coach to replace John Fox

So it most likely UM, SF and Denver going after him.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-02-2011, 08:59 AM
Oh, and I cannot wait to hear next year which QB is the "Next Manning," the best QB prospect in over a decade. Blah, blah, blah.

It happens every ****ing year.

Matt Barkely 1st overall pick 2012 anyone?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 09:00 AM
He's being compared to Senior Tenn QB Peyton Manning, who was not considered a lock to be an all-time great when he came out of school. There were people even within the Colts organization who wanted to go with Leaf because he was a more physically gifted QB.

That's a good point and an important distinction. Thanks for clarifying.

Karenin
01-02-2011, 09:01 AM
I'm sorry the bigger boy and girls have been picking on you. Try an not take it personal they are in pain too and just lashing out.

Dude, it's like 10 a.m. shouldn't you be passed out in the gutter by now?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 09:02 AM
Dude, it's like 10 a.m. shouldn't you be passed out in the gutter by now?

We all think your little slapfight is great. Thanks for sharing it with all of us.

Dedhed
01-02-2011, 09:14 AM
Oh, and I cannot wait to hear next year which QB is the "Next Manning," the best QB prospect in over a decade. Blah, blah, blah.

It happens every ****ing year.

Matt Barkely 1st overall pick 2012 anyone?

Jake Locker was listed as a "guy who can do it all" by many OMers last year.

I won't go blamo if we draft Luck, but I think Tebow is the perfect style of QB to drag Denver from the pit.


I think a tough, ugly, get it done style paired with great leadership is the perfect to bring Denver back to the top. I'm not a fan of the Manning uber precise model.

Broncobiv
01-02-2011, 09:14 AM
I can already picture Pat on Elway's first day on the job as he walks down the hall, point's at his new corner office and says "This one's for John!"
Hilarious! I can see that in my head...Pat makes a dramatic pause and says his famous line in the same big, booming voice! That would be so funny!

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:16 AM
Can someone do a coach chronicle on harbaugh?
Sure...I've reported on him several times in here, mostly to deaf ears.

Harbaugh has a grand total of 28 wins coaching real college football players, and if you're interested, a few more coaching in a league where nobody had scolarships...essentially a step above intramurral football. He may have gotten the Stanford gig because his dad was a coach at Stanford and he went to HS accross the street. Harbaugh has been for now at least, a one hit wonder both as a coach and a journeyman in the NFL. As a college coach, he's had only one really impressive season (this one) and it was accomplished with the the NFL's future #1 draft pick at QB, plus another pretty decent year in which he had another Heisman finalist in his backfield and went 8-4 in the PAC 10. In short, he's a college coach who uses a pro style offense and has had one great season. His pro career was also pretty much a one hit wonder thing. In 14 seasons he bounced around with four or five teams, had a great 1995 during which he QB'd the Colts and won AFC player of the year and the NFL's comeback player of the year while making the pro bowl. Other than that, he defined the word, "journeyman". He had the odd distinction of being replaced by both Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf. In 2002-03 he spent a year on the Raiders staff.

That's it.

He's a young (still a whopping 15 years older than Josh!) offensive oriented coach with very limited experience coaching in the NFL and a resume in college where his success was also tied to a superstar QB. His college coaching record is 28-21 for a .571 winning percentage.

Does any of this sound familiar? To me it sounds depressingly familiiar.

Will he be better than Josh? Hmmmm...probablly...but how could he not be? Will he win in the NFL? There's no reason to see him at this point as more than a very inexperienced college coach who uses a pro style offense, had his only NFL gig with Al Davis' wacko wing and managed one really nice season out of four in college. He interviewed with the Jets and lost out to Rex Ryan already.

If this is true, I fear Tim Tebow is history here.

OBF1
01-02-2011, 09:18 AM
Quoted from the ESPN link:

One of Elway's first orders of business as a Broncos executive will be to discuss Denver's head-coach opening with Stanford's Jim Harbaugh, league sources told Schefter. A former Stanford star, Elway is serving as an honorary captain for the Cardinal on Monday night at the Discover Orange Bowl against Virginia Tech.

Funny how this worked out.

elsid13
01-02-2011, 09:21 AM
Quoted from the ESPN link:

One of Elway's first orders of business as a Broncos executive will be to discuss Denver's head-coach opening with Stanford's Jim Harbaugh, league sources told Schefter. A former Stanford star, Elway is serving as an honorary captain for the Cardinal on Monday night at the Discover Orange Bowl against Virginia Tech.

Funny how this worked out.

I wonder if Elway will put on fake beard and sneak into Harbaugh's hotel after the game?

Crushaholic
01-02-2011, 09:23 AM
I'd like to see what a former NFL QB like Harbaugh could do with a talented (but raw) guy like Tebow. Would love to see this happen.

WHAT?! Tebow is raw? ;)

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 09:26 AM
Sure...I've reported on him several times in here, mostly to deaf ears.

Harbaugh has a grand total of 28 wins coaching real college football players, and if you're interested, a few more coaching in a league where nobody had scolarships...essentially a step above intramurral football. He may have gotten the Stanford gig because his dad was a coach at Stanford and he went to HS accross the street. Harbaugh has been for now at least, a one hit wonder both as a coach and a journeyman in the NFL. As a college coach, he's had only one really impressive season (this one) and it was accomplished with the the NFL's future #1 draft pick at QB, plus another pretty decent year in which he had another Heisman finalist in his backfield and went 8-4 in the PAC 10. In short, he's a college coach who uses a pro style offense and has had one great season. His pro career was also pretty much a one hit wonder thing. In 14 seasons he bounced around with four or five teams, had a great 1995 during which he QB'd the Colts and won AFC player of the year and the NFL's comeback player of the year while making the pro bowl. Other than that, he defined the word, "journeyman". He had the odd distinction of being replaced by both Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf. In 2002-03 he spent a year on the Raiders staff.

That's it.

He's a young (still a whopping 15 years older than Josh!) offensive oriented coach with very limited experience coaching in the NFL and a resume in college where his success was also tied to a superstar QB. His college coaching record is 28-21 for a .571 winning percentage.

Does any of this sound familiar? To me it sounds depressingly familiiar.

Will he be better than Josh? Hmmmm...probablly...but how could he not be? Will he win in the NFL? There's no reason to see him at this point as more than a very inexperienced college coach who uses a pro style offense, had his only NFL gig with Al Davis' wacko wing and managed one really nice season out of four in college. He interviewed with the Jets and lost out to Rex Ryan already.

If this is true, I fear Tim Tebow is history here.

No. We all know you have a really bad case of Harbaugh rash and can't stop scratching it. :kiss:

maher_tyler
01-02-2011, 09:27 AM
I agree, but it freaks me out a little that 2 Stanford alums will blow the draft to get Luck.

This! We have to many holes all over this team to burn another 1st round pick on another QB! Even in Tebow has a bad game today..i still don't want to draft another QB.

elsid13
01-02-2011, 09:27 AM
No. We all know you have a really bad case of Harbaugh rash and can't stop scratching it. :kiss:

actually I think he has some type of Urban STD.

zdoor
01-02-2011, 09:30 AM
I do like Harbaughs style. It would be damn near impossible for the team to be flat with a Tebow/Harbaugh combo.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:35 AM
No. We all know you have a really bad case of Harbaugh rash and can't stop scratching it. :kiss:
It irks me that Bowlen seems stuck eternally on repeating the same thing whether it works or not.

Most people on this board don't like the idea of a college coach taking this job, yet for some reason they think this guy is the exception to the rule about how they fare in the NFL. Harbaugh might be great...but we have no reason to believe that based on anything he's done so far. That's the unfortuante fact we have to deal with here...he's nowhere near the best qualified guy for this job. If this happens, it makes it look like Elway was brought on just to get Harbaugh.

If we dump Tebow and trade our whole draft for another rookie QB we'll be stepping backwards three more years.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 09:35 AM
For all we know, Tebow may fit Harbaugh's brand of football better than Luck. I guarantee you, if Elway and Harbaugh were having a discussion regarding the HC job, it wouldn't take more than a few seconds for the subject of Tebow to come up.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 09:37 AM
It irks me that Bowlen seems stuck eternally on repeating the same thing whether it works or not.

Most people on this board don't like the idea of a college coach taking this job, yet for some reason they think this guy is the exception to the rule about how they fare in the NFL. Harbaugh might be great...but we have no reason to believe that based on anything he's done so far. That's the unfortuante fact we have to deal with here...he's nowhere near the best qualified guy for this job. If this happens, it makes it look like Elway was brought on just to get Harbaugh.

If we dump Tebow and trade our whole draft for another rookie QB we'll be stepping backwards three more years.

Anybody who made a star out of Toby Gerhart has my vote.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:37 AM
actually I think he has some type of Urban STD.
Meyer has been far more successful than Harbaugh and he's done it everywhere he's been.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:38 AM
Anybody who made a star out of Toby Gerhart has my vote.
That's a pretty silly criteria for our next head coach.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:40 AM
For all we know, Tebow may fit Harbaugh's brand of football better than Luck. I guarantee you, if Elway and Harbaugh were having a discussion regarding the HC job, it wouldn't take more than a few seconds for the subject of Tebow to come up.
Right. A guy who coaches the pro style offense would prefer the raw Tebow who just started taking snaps under center to the guy he coached and is going to be the NFL's top pick. Yes I'm sure he thinks Tebow is more like what he wants than Luck.

Look at this objectively...please.

zdoor
01-02-2011, 09:40 AM
It irks me that Bowlen seems stuck eternally on repeating the same thing whether it works or not.

Most people on this board don't like the idea of a college coach taking this job, yet for some reason they think this guy is the exception to the rule about how they fare in the NFL. Harbaugh might be great...but we have no reason to believe that based on anything he's done so far. That's the unfortuante fact we have to deal with here...he's nowhere near the best qualified guy for this job. If this happens, it makes it look like Elway was brought on just to get Harbaugh.

If we dump Tebow and trade our whole draft for another rookie QB we'll be stepping backwards three more years.

If getting Harbaugh meant dumping Tebow and starting over with another rookie and trading picks, I'd be off that bus. But, I don't think think the 2 are necessarily joined at the hip. Harbaugh could do good things with Tebow IMO.

Pony Boy
01-02-2011, 09:41 AM
Will Luck be the first undrafted player that gets to go to the pro-bowl?

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 09:43 AM
Right. A guy who coaches the pro style offense would prefer the raw Tebow who just started taking snaps under center to the guy he coached and is going to be the NFL's top pick. Yes I'm sure he thinks Tebow is more like what he wants than Luck.

Look at this objectively...please.

It's all speculation at this point. I don't know what's in Harbaugh's mind. Maybe once he had Luck he saw what he brought to the game and designed a scheme around his skills. Maybe he looks at Tebow and sees a whole different scheme that it would excite him to build. Who knows? Some coaches stick with one scheme, others like to experiment. I don't know which one Harbaugh is.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:45 AM
If getting Harbaugh meant dumping Tebow and starting over with another rookie and trading picks, I'd be off that bus. But, I don't think think the 2 are necessarily joined at the hip. Harbaugh could do good things with Tebow IMO.
What do you base that opinion on? You might be right, but what are you basing that view on? Josh McDaniels coached Tom Brady.

Need I say more?

zdoor
01-02-2011, 09:46 AM
What do you base that opinion on? You might be right, but what are you basing that view on? Josh McDaniels coached Tom Brady.

Need I say more?

His experience as a pro QB and the development of Luck.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 09:46 AM
And Urban Meyer's health is in question. As is his dedication. If he comes in for a year and a half or two years, then retires AGAIN, then unretires, then retires AGAIN... Thanks, but that's a circus that I have no interest in.

elsid13
01-02-2011, 09:46 AM
Meyer has been far more successful than Harbaugh and he's done it everywhere he's been.

Yes Meyer was very successful college coach that was very in forefront of the spread-option, but that doesn't mean he would have been successful in the NFL. If you watch Harbaugh and the way he runs his team you see pro-style program that translates to NFL, something I never would have consider with Meyer's programs.

And before you go off on how NE use similar concepts as UF teams, let me point out again that every coach (at every level) borrows and exchanges ideas with each other. Mike Leach use the drag and crossing patterns that he saw Mike Shanahan use in Denver.

OrangeSe7en
01-02-2011, 09:47 AM
It's all speculation at this point. I don't know what's in Harbaugh's mind. Maybe once he had Luck he saw what he brought to the game and designed a scheme around his skills. Maybe he looks at Tebow and sees a whole different scheme that it would excite him to build. Who knows? Some coaches stick with one scheme, others like to experiment. I don't know which one Harbaugh is.

He coached Joshua Johnson in college. Im not sure if he coached him that year, but Joshua Johnson had a year where he threw 40 something TDs and 1 INT. And its not like a lot of prospects come out of San Diego.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:47 AM
It's all speculation at this point. I don't know what's in Harbaugh's mind. Maybe once he had Luck he saw what he brought to the game and designed a scheme around his skills. Maybe he looks at Tebow and sees a whole different scheme that it would excite him to build. Who knows? Some coaches stick with one scheme, others like to experiment. I don't know which one Harbaugh is.
Exactly. He's an unknown commodity. Is that what we want here?

TonyR
01-02-2011, 09:47 AM
I have a pretty good idea who but won't say it right now

Why wouldn't you say? Are you worried about those black helicopters hovering over head?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 09:48 AM
Exactly. He's an unknown commodity. Is that what we want here?

Meyer retires every other season. Is THAT what we want here?

bowtown
01-02-2011, 09:48 AM
Yes Meyer was very successful college coach that was very in forefront of the spread-option, but that doesn't mean he would have been successful in the NFL. If you watch Harbaugh and the way he runs his team you see pro-style program that translates to NFL, something I never would have consider with Meyer's programs.

And before you go off on how NE use similar concepts as UF teams, let me point out again that every coach (at every level) borrows and exchanges ideas with each other. Mike Leach use the drag and crossing patterns that he saw Mike Shanahan use in Denver.

We will find out if Meyer is a good NFL head coach in 2 years, when he takes over in NE. It's a done deal.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:50 AM
He coached Joshua Johnson in college. Im not sure if he coached him that year, but Joshua Johnson had a year where he threw 40 something TDs and 1 INT. And its not like a lot of prospects come out of San Diego.
Do you mean the U of San Diego? The school that plays in a league where nobody has scholarships?

I guess that makes him qualified then since he coached Joshua Johnson.

Who is Joshua Johnson BTW? I had to look him up to find out he's a scrub QB on the Bucs.

Perfect! ^5

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 09:52 AM
I would be down for Meyer to come coach this team... in five years when he gets his mind and health right and I have confidence that he'll stick around for more than just a couple years.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:53 AM
Meyer retires every other season. Is THAT what we want here?
Untrue, he had a legit reason to do what he did...obviously I'd love to have a guy who has 1) won dramatically and immediately everywhere he's been, 2) knows Tebow inside out, and 3) has won two national championships as a HC.

And he was coaching real college scholarship players, not glorified intramural football. This guy has less NFL coaching experience than Josh McDaniels.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 09:53 AM
Exactly. He's an unknown commodity. Is that what we want here?

I'm beginning to think that at some point in your life, Harbaugh knocked you down and stole your lunch money.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:54 AM
I would be down for Meyer to come coach this team... in five years when he gets his mind and health right and I have confidence that he'll stick around for more than just a couple years.
He's rumored to be going to ESPN. I see him taking a year or two and returning...this time to the NFL.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:55 AM
I'm beginning to think that at some point in your life, Harbaugh knocked you down and stole your lunch money.
Like the new coaching gig isn't a hot topic for discussion right?

Do you disagree with anything I posted?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 09:55 AM
He's rumored to be going to ESPN. I see him taking a year or two and returning...this time to the NFL.

And that's great. I don't want him right now, and right now is when we have our opening.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:56 AM
We will find out if Meyer is a good NFL head coach in 2 years, when he takes over in NE. It's a done deal.
No...Belicheat is nowhere near done. But I could see the Pats doing that if he was...for sure.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 09:57 AM
And that's great. I don't want him right now, and right now is when we have our opening.
Point taken. Maybe we'll have another one in two years like we did this time?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 10:00 AM
Point taken. Maybe we'll have another one in two years like we did this time?

I truly ****ing hope not. This is the main reason I was against firing McDaniels when we did. Another coach with another scheme -- no matter who it is -- coming in and changing everything, and if it doesn't work immediately we'll run him out of town on a rail. Then we have another coach with another scheme, coming in and changing everything.

Say what you want, but Al Davis finally got the point. Keeping consistency in your coaching ranks DOES produce. Tom Cable is roundly regarded as not a good coach, yet he has the Raiders playing well after being able to institute his system and his players. And how long has he been there? Do we really think that if he'd been fired in year two, the Raiders would have played as well as they did this season?

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 10:01 AM
Point taken. Maybe we'll have another one in two years like we did this time?

Two years from now, Harbaugh will have us in the playoffs. ;D

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 10:04 AM
Two years from now, Harbaugh will have us in the playoffs. ;D
I think you're joking, but in case you're not, I'd love to hear the rational.

baja
01-02-2011, 10:04 AM
Will Luck be the first undrafted player that gets to go to the pro-bowl?

LOL no kidding...

bowtown
01-02-2011, 10:06 AM
No...Belicheat is nowhere near done. But I could see the Pats doing that if he was...for sure.

Just watch.

Steve Sewell
01-02-2011, 10:08 AM
I am very torn on Luck vs. Tebow.

For one, I don't think we have any chance at Luck regardless. However, after watching some games and film on him, he is one of the most can't miss prospects that I've ever seen. The dude is an absolute beast, think Peyton Manning with mobility. If you have a chance at him, you don't pass it up.

Drek
01-02-2011, 10:09 AM
Why do so many assume that Harbaugh wouldn't absolutely LOVE to coach Tebow?

If he's making the step up to the pros he need someone who is ready for the pro game from day one. A redshirt sophomore out of the PAC-10 who knows his system and would then have to start as a rookie isn't a great option for winning out of the gate.

Now a second year QB who came out as a senior, was an all everything in college, won the national title, and despite much turmoil around him has played very well in three rookie starts? That is the kind of guy you can hit the ground running with.

The advantages for Harbaugh sticking with Tebow are only amplified when you consider the fact that we will not be picking first and Luck will can't be involved with any NFL team until after the draft regardless, when a lockout might potentially postpone camp an extra month. Meanwhile Tim Tebow, the hardest worker in the room, could meet and greet with Harbaugh literally day one, get the play book, spend several weeks if not even months working with Harbaugh pre-lock out so that if a lock out is only a couple weeks long Tebow can continue prep on his own time.

Luck's only advantage is knowing the system. Tebow has a ton more time to learn it.

Tombstone RJ
01-02-2011, 10:12 AM
I really, really, REALLY hope Tebow and the Broncos win against Sandy Eggo, just so the possibility of landing (un)Luck is more unlikely.

C'mon Tebow, win this game.

OrangeSe7en
01-02-2011, 10:14 AM
Do you mean the U of San Diego? The school that plays in a league where nobody has scholarships?

I guess that makes him qualified then since he coached Joshua Johnson.

Who is Joshua Johnson BTW? I had to look him up to find out he's a scrub QB on the Bucs.

Perfect! ^5

Whether or not he's a good QB in the NFL doesnt mean he wasnt coached well and the point you're making about the conference he comes from suggests he was well coached.

zdoor
01-02-2011, 10:16 AM
Why do so many assume that Harbaugh wouldn't absolutely LOVE to coach Tebow?

If he's making the step up to the pros he need someone who is ready for the pro game from day one. A redshirt sophomore out of the PAC-10 who knows his system and would then have to start as a rookie isn't a great option for winning out of the gate.

Now a second year QB who came out as a senior, was an all everything in college, won the national title, and despite much turmoil around him has played very well in three rookie starts? That is the kind of guy you can hit the ground running with.

The advantages for Harbaugh sticking with Tebow are only amplified when you consider the fact that we will not be picking first and Luck will can't be involved with any NFL team until after the draft regardless, when a lockout might potentially postpone camp an extra month. Meanwhile Tim Tebow, the hardest worker in the room, could meet and greet with Harbaugh literally day one, get the play book, spend several weeks if not even months working with Harbaugh pre-lock out so that if a lock out is only a couple weeks long Tebow can continue prep on his own time.

Luck's only advantage is knowing the system. Tebow has a ton more time to learn it.

All good points...

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 10:17 AM
Why do so many assume that Harbaugh wouldn't absolutely LOVE to coach Tebow?

If he's making the step up to the pros he need someone who is ready for the pro game from day one. A redshirt sophomore out of the PAC-10 who knows his system and would then have to start as a rookie isn't a great option for winning out of the gate.

Now a second year QB who came out as a senior, was an all everything in college, won the national title, and despite much turmoil around him has played very well in three rookie starts? That is the kind of guy you can hit the ground running with.

The advantages for Harbaugh sticking with Tebow are only amplified when you consider the fact that we will not be picking first and Luck will can't be involved with any NFL team until after the draft regardless, when a lockout might potentially postpone camp an extra month. Meanwhile Tim Tebow, the hardest worker in the room, could meet and greet with Harbaugh literally day one, get the play book, spend several weeks if not even months working with Harbaugh pre-lock out so that if a lock out is only a couple weeks long Tebow can continue prep on his own time.

Luck's only advantage is knowing the system. Tebow has a ton more time to learn it.

An issue this brings up in my mind is that Harbaugh's system couldn't remain the same in the NFL and be successful. There's just no way. It would have to be modified substantially. If they don't do that we are seriously going to struggle to score points.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 10:20 AM
I think you're joking, but in case you're not, I'd love to hear the rational.

Because he has the same passion for football and competitiveness that Tebow has.

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2011, 10:23 AM
Harbaugh might turn us down so worrying about Luck is moot at this point. I would love Harbaugh here he is only HC I really want.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 10:25 AM
An issue this brings up in my mind is that Harbaugh's system couldn't remain the same in the NFL and be successful. There's just no way. It would have to be modified substantially. If they don't do that we are seriously going to struggle to score points.

Huh? Stanford is one of the prime examples that people refer to when talking about a pro-style offense being run at the college level.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 10:27 AM
Here's another great thing about Harbaugh, he's confident enough in himself that he is willing to hire people who are more experienced than he is.
http://www.gostanford.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020910aaa.html

I just hope he brings Vic Fangio with him. And Randy Hart too.

Tombstone RJ
01-02-2011, 10:28 AM
Because he has the same passion for football and competitiveness that Tebow has.

I think people are buying the Luck hype because the Mel Kipers of the world have announced Luck as their newest toy QB draft pick.

And, these pundits are never wrong, right? Luck could be the next Carr. Either way, if the Broncos want him they will have to mortgage their future to get him. I'd prefer the Broncos did not do this.

It makes more sense to draft defensive talent, keep developing Tebow and draft a QB in the late rounds. Keep Quinn as a back up. Also, maybe draft another RB to help the running game.

Otherwise, go all out on the defense.

Pony Boy
01-02-2011, 10:30 AM
I kind of like where this thread is heading ......

Urban Meyer to Denver with Tebow
Harbaugh to Carolina with Luck
Patrino to SF with Mallett
Stoops to the Rams if they lose today.
;D

Hummm..... Mack Brown and the Browns coming to town

bendog
01-02-2011, 10:30 AM
Huh? Stanford is one of the prime examples that people refer to when talking about a pro-style offense being run at the college level.

yeah, and harbaugh played for Marchibroda in Balt, and he was a good offensive coach. I don't understand the love for Meyer in the pros though.

Dagmar
01-02-2011, 10:31 AM
You would have to think if harbaugh becomes our new HC that it is a lock for Luck to be our 1st round selection if he is available no matter how tebow plays today

I literally cannot believe people think this a real possibility. The town is buzzing with the rookie we have now and....

This is the important part...

HE WILL GO AT NUMBER ONE TO CAROLINA!!!!

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 10:35 AM
Whether or not he's a good QB in the NFL doesnt mean he wasnt coached well and the point you're making about the conference he comes from suggests he was well coached.
Hardly enough to hang our hat on as the next coach of the Broncos and the guy we want to lead us back to Superbowl glory...he coached a backup QB when he was in college...if that's an actual bullet point here, we're in huge trouble.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 10:35 AM
I think people are buying the Luck hype because the Mel Kipers of the world have announced Luck as their newest toy QB draft pick.

And, these pundits are never wrong, right? Luck could be the next Carr. Either way, if the Broncos want him they will have to mortgage their future to get him. I'd prefer the Broncos did not do this.

It makes more sense to draft defensive talent, keep developing Tebow and draft a QB in the late rounds. Keep Quinn as a back up. Also, maybe draft another RB to help the running game.

Otherwise, go all out on the defense.

I've watched a bunch of Stanford games this year. You'll see tomorrow night in the Orange Bowl. Luck is the real deal.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 10:37 AM
I literally cannot believe people think this a real possibility. The town is buzzing with the rookie we have now and....

This is the important part...

HE WILL GO AT NUMBER ONE TO CAROLINA!!!!
Here's a thought. Luck comes out...but he tells Carolina he won't play for them if they draft him, ala Elway when he gave the finger to the Colts. Faced with that, they're willing to deal him for this years draft plus next years' as well.

How does that sound?

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 10:40 AM
I've watched a bunch of Stanford games this year. You'll see tomorrow night in the Orange Bowl. Luck is the real deal.
Is he worth three #1's and three #2's? That might be what it takes...basically destroying our draft for two more seasons...PLUS we lose a guy we all now love to root for.

Tombstone RJ
01-02-2011, 10:40 AM
Here's a thought. Luck comes out...but he tells Carolina he won't play for them if they draft him, ala Elway when he gave the finger to the Colts. Faced with that, they're willing to deal him for this years draft plus next years' as well.

How does that sound?

$50m guaranteed says no to this theory. That's the difference between the Elway situation and the Luck situation. Money does the talking here.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 10:41 AM
$50m guaranteed says no to this theory. That's the difference between the Elway situation and the Luck situation. Money does the talking here.
He'll get his money no matter who drafts him, because he'll be going in the top spot.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 10:41 AM
I've watched a bunch of Stanford games this year. You'll see tomorrow night in the Orange Bowl. Luck is the real deal.

Whenever a college QB is the consensus #1 pick he's the real deal...in college. In the NFL? Who knows? It's a complete crap shoot, and anyone who doesn't believe that should go check the history of #1 QBs.

Dagmar
01-02-2011, 10:43 AM
He'll get his money no matter who drafts him, because he'll be going in the top spot.

If we are playing hypothetical, what about the rookie wage cap that'll be in place?

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 10:44 AM
Is he worth three #1's and three #2's? That might be what it takes...basically destroying our draft for two more seasons...PLUS we lose a guy we all now love to root for.

Yikes! Exaggerate much?

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 10:46 AM
If we are playing hypothetical, what about the rookie wage cap that'll be in place?
Exactly...he's going to be slotted into the top pick and it doesn't matter where he's going. He can return to school if he wishes not to play for the Carolina Panthers and if he can 1) play for his college coach, and 2) have Elway mentor him...you don't think that might sway his opinion of playing in a place like Charlotte NC? I do...and I suspect Bowlen might also, which is what is really frightening most people in here.

Dagmar
01-02-2011, 10:48 AM
Another strong Tebow performance today and we can forget about Luck all together though, right?

As for Harbaugh, I would be ecstatic. It's not the sexy Gruden/Cowher that people want but the guy will be a good coach.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 10:51 AM
Yikes! Exaggerate much?
Not at all. If some team thinks this guy's the next Manning, you don't think they can get this? Even if it's half that...say Tebow, two #1's and a #2...would that be worth it given the horrible state of this defense, the fact that Tebow is ready now, and the fact that we'll be hanstrung in the draft for two more years while this inexperienced college coach tries to figure out the NFL? It's an enormous gamble if we do this.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 10:52 AM
Three ones and three twos? To move up one spot in the draft? I don't think so. Not in this lifetime.

Tombstone RJ
01-02-2011, 10:57 AM
I'm already sick of Luck and I've never seen him play a game.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 10:57 AM
Three ones and three twos? To move up one spot in the draft? I don't think so. Not in this lifetime.
It's a question of what someone ELSE is likely to offer them. It matters not how many spots we would have to move up, it's based on what they can get from the highest bidder. Who knows what that turns out to be? You can bet the farm it will be VERY expensive though.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 10:58 AM
I'm already sick of Luck and I've never seen him play a game.
lol...you're SOL!

Tombstone RJ
01-02-2011, 11:00 AM
lol...you're SOL!

I'm just hoping the Broncos win today... :strong:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 11:00 AM
I'm already sick of Luck and I've never seen him play a game.

There's your problem with his talent evaluation. Watch the Orange Bowl.

And you're going to be watching him in the NFL for a long, long time. Better get used to the idea.

Tombstone RJ
01-02-2011, 11:05 AM
There's your problem with his talent evaluation. Watch the Orange Bowl.

And you're going to be watching him in the NFL for a long, long time. Better get used to the idea.

I'm sure he's all that and a bag of chips too. I just think that Tebow deserves a shot and that mortgaging the future to get Luck is stupid. It would be a huge, huge gamble to invest in an unknown like Luck, regardless of his perceived future in the NFL.

Hamrob
01-02-2011, 11:07 AM
$50m guaranteed says no to this theory. That's the difference between the Elway situation and the Luck situation. Money does the talking here.First off, to move up to get Luck...would probably cost us a couple picks...we would swap #1's and give them our own #2 and that would probably do it right there.

secondly, if there is going to be a new CBA...then, there is going to be a new rookie wage scale....which will pay the #1 pick maybe $25m over 5-6yrs.

So, if we want Luck and (big if) Carolina would rather get more picks...then, it's doable.

However, I believe in Tebow and I'm hopeing #7 does too!!!

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 11:10 AM
First off, to move up to get Luck...would probably cost us a couple picks...we would swap #1's and give them our own #2 and that would probably do it right there.
If you were Carolina, why would you make any deal for him that's not a blockbuster? No way that does it...they will be offered the moon from some team that sees him as their future Elway...I just hope it's not the real Elway pulling that trigger.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 11:11 AM
There's your problem with his talent evaluation. Watch the Orange Bowl.

And you're going to be watching him in the NFL for a long, long time. Better get used to the idea.

Good for him. So will Tebow. Why are we concerning ourselves with a 1st round QB not on our roster, when we already have one on it? One, I might add, that has champion written all over him.

Hamrob
01-02-2011, 11:13 AM
I haven't seen this posted. I'm sure it's somewhere...but, it's a good read...and really speaks to Elway/Xanders/Harbaugh and Tebow:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16990117

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 11:14 AM
If you were Carolina, why would you make any deal for him that's not a blockbuster? No way that does it...they will be offered the moon from some team that sees him as their future Elway...I just hope it's not the real Elway pulling that trigger.

If you're Carolina why would you ever bank on Clausen over Luck? That's the thing I don't get. If people think we should take Luck over a very promising Tebow, why don't they think Carolina will take Luck over an abysmal Clausen?

Hamrob
01-02-2011, 11:16 AM
If you were Carolina, why would you make any deal for him that's not a blockbuster? No way that does it...they will be offered the moon from some team that sees him as their future Elway...I just hope it's not the real Elway pulling that trigger.The reason you would do it...is that we would be giving them the #2 pick. So, essentially, they get the guy they want in the draft (if that's not Luck). Nobody else can offer that. They would get their guy, plus a high #2 for flopping picks with us.

They could take somebody else's offer...Like the Bengals maybe...there might be a team that would give them this year's #1, this year's #2 and next year's #1.

Here's another thought...they might just draft Bowers. They need to replace Peppers, some say.

Hamrob
01-02-2011, 11:21 AM
If you're Carolina why would you ever bank on Clausen over Luck? That's the thing I don't get. If people think we should take Luck over a very promising Tebow, why don't they think Carolina will take Luck over an abysmal Clausen?This isn't my belief...but, here it goes:

Many analysts had Clausen going in the top 10 last year. Supposedly, he only fell out of the 1st...because the need wasn't there. Tebow was ranked at best 3rd behind Bradfort/Clausen...lot's of anyalyst had McCoy ahead of Tebow.

The big push for Clausen last year...was that he was more polished in terms of his mechanics and understanding of the pro style offense having playd for Weis at ND.

So, just like we support Tebow...against most experts opinion...Carolina may feel the same about Clausen. You know, if they get an offensive coach, and a person who knows how to bring Clausen around. If they believe that, then they can concentrate on other areas such as LT or DE etc.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 11:22 AM
The reason you would do it...is that we would be giving them the #2 pick. So, essentially, they get the guy they want in the draft (if that's not Luck). Nobody else can offer that. They would get their guy, plus a high #2 for flopping picks with us.
The problem with that is, Luck IS their guy. Have you seen Clausen? Why would they so willingly pass up their franchise QB when they so desperately need one? Their fanbase would crucify their new coach, whoever he is, for making that move. The only way they trade him is if they get a huge windfall in return, and expecting anything else is folly.
Here's another thought...they might just draft Bowers. They need to replace Peppers, some say.
There's no way they pass Luck for Bowers unless Josh McDaniels takes over for Fox. Seriously...that's an impossible scenario.

Luck makes perfect sense for Carolina...unless he tells them he won't play for them or somebody offers them a deal they can't say no to.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 11:23 AM
The reason you would do it...is that we would be giving them the #2 pick. So, essentially, they get the guy they want in the draft (if that's not Luck). Nobody else can offer that. They would get their guy, plus a high #2 for flopping picks with us.

They could take somebody else's offer...Like the Bengals maybe...there might be a team that would give them this year's #1, this year's #2 and next year's #1.

Here's another thought...they might just draft Bowers. They need to replace Peppers, some say.

And why would we give up that much to move up one spot? When we have Tebow? The way some people are thinking on this topic is clinically insane. Why does anyone think Luck is a good pick for a team with the worst defense in the league and a very promising rookie QB? I really can't wrap my head around it...

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 11:24 AM
This isn't my belief...but, here it goes:

Many analysts had Clausen going in the top 10 last year. Supposedly, he only fell out of the 1st...because the need wasn't there. Tebow was ranked at best 3rd behind Bradfort/Clausen...lot's of anyalyst had McCoy ahead of Tebow.

The big push for Clausen last year...was that he was more polished in terms of his mechanics and understanding of the pro style offense having playd for Weis at ND.

So, just like we support Tebow...against most experts opinion...Carolina may feel the same about Clausen. You know, if they get an offensive coach, and a person who knows how to bring Clausen around. If they believe that, then they can concentrate on other areas such as LT or DE etc.
So they're going to give away their pick for less than they could get because they like Clausen? Not hardly.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 11:26 AM
And why would we give up that much to move up one spot? When we have Tebow? The way some people are thinking on this topic is clinically insane. Why does anyone think Luck is a good pick for a team with the worst defense in the league and a very promising rookie QB? I really can't wrap my head around it...
Because our (apparently) new head coach and our (apparently) new GM type guy who isn't really the GM guy...both probably covet Luck.

KipCorrington25
01-02-2011, 11:29 AM
Looks like he`ll have to come from behind again.

That's what she said. Hilarious!

Hamrob
01-02-2011, 11:29 AM
The problem with that is, Luck IS their guy. Have you seen Clausen? Why would they so willingly pass up their franchise QB when they so desperately need one? Their fanbase would crucify their new coach, whoever he is, for making that move. The only way they trade him is if they get a huge windfall in return, and expecting anything else is folly.

There's no way they pass Luck for Bowers unless Josh McDaniels takes over for Fox. Seriously...that's an impossible scenario.

Luck makes perfect sense for Carolina...unless he tells them he won't play for them or somebody offers them a deal they can't say no to.

Hey, Clausen played at ND against equal competition. When comparing him to Luck...the numbers are similiar:

Jimmy Clausen #7 QB
2009 STATS
RATING YARDS TOUCHDOWNS
161.43 3,722 28
CAREER STATS
YARDS TOUCHDOWNS
8,148 60

Andrew Luck #12 QB
2010 STATS
RATING YARDS TOUCHDOWNS
166.10 3,051 28
CAREER STATS
YARDS TOUCHDOWNS
5,626 41

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 11:30 AM
This isn't my belief...but, here it goes:

Many analysts had Clausen going in the top 10 last year. Supposedly, he only fell out of the 1st...because the need wasn't there. Tebow was ranked at best 3rd behind Bradfort/Clausen...lot's of anyalyst had McCoy ahead of Tebow.

The big push for Clausen last year...was that he was more polished in terms of his mechanics and understanding of the pro style offense having playd for Weis at ND.

So, just like we support Tebow...against most experts opinion...Carolina may feel the same about Clausen. You know, if they get an offensive coach, and a person who knows how to bring Clausen around. If they believe that, then they can concentrate on other areas such as LT or DE etc.

So the argument is that the analysts like him more so he must be better? Even though it's becoming quite obvious that Tebow is in another league in every way (something many of us already knew)? Both have been playing with struggling teams, and Tebow (the supposed long-term project) has looked worlds better. As you say, this isn't your opinion, but my question is what nut-job would seriously have such an opinion? What GM would take Clausen over Tebow at this point? More importantly, what GM would pass on Luck because they had Clausen?

I can't imagine such an idiot exists, but who knows?

Hercules Rockefeller
01-02-2011, 11:32 AM
The reason you would do it...is that we would be giving them the #2 pick. So, essentially, they get the guy they want in the draft (if that's not Luck). Nobody else can offer that. They would get their guy, plus a high #2 for flopping picks with us.

They could take somebody else's offer...Like the Bengals maybe...there might be a team that would give them this year's #1, this year's #2 and next year's #1.

Here's another thought...they might just draft Bowers. They need to replace Peppers, some say.

You assume they're more concerened with getting their guy compared to maximizing the return. Everyone picking this high has a ton of needs, no one player is "their guy", no chance that just one of the 2nds get it's done.

Hamrob
01-02-2011, 11:33 AM
So they're going to give away their pick for less than they could get because they like Clausen? Not hardly.Of course not...there will be a market for the #1 pick...it just depends on what the asking price is.

Question: Where was Andrew Luck at the beginning of the 2010 season? Did you know he was even listed within the top 5 QB prospects at that time? Jake Locker led that race, followed by Ryan Mallet and Cam Newton...but, no Andrew Luck.

So, really...all the Luck hype...started mid season this year and has carried through to right now. He's not a kid that has been hyped for very long.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 11:34 AM
Good for him. So will Tebow. Why are we concerning ourselves with a 1st round QB not on our roster, when we already have one on it? One, I might add, that has champion written all over him.

I'm pretty sure this is a message board, where speculation is encouraged. Could be wrong. But I don't think I am.

As for why we're discussing Luck, we're doing so because he's the most pro-ready QB in the draft. At number 2, there is a chance that we'll have a shot at him. And while Tebow is very good, his strengths are mostly to do with unquantifiable "intangibles" like "winnerliness" and "composure." He still winds up when throwing the ball, and he's still not terribly accurate. That pick he threw last week was, frankly, atrocious.

It's okay to have a discussion about him that includes an honest assessment of his skillset. I hope you'll be able to join us.

Hamrob
01-02-2011, 11:35 AM
You assume they're more concerened with getting their guy compared to maximizing the return. Everyone picking this high has a ton of needs, no one player is "their guy", no chance that just one of the 2nds get it's done.You are most likely correct.

But, that doesn't mean that at the end of the day...there's noone willing to move up...and if they don't want Luck (and can't find a trade partner), why not flip the 1st for the 2nd and get an extra pick...when you still get they guy you really want?

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 11:35 AM
Because our (apparently) new head coach and our (apparently) new GM type guy who isn't really the GM guy...both probably covet Luck.

If this is true (and right now there's a lot of assuming going on), we are doomed as a team. Absolutely doomed. Luck may end up being better than Tebow (I doubt it, but it's possible), but he's not going to fix our defense. In fact, to acquire him would eat up additional picks that should be used on defense as well.

If this is how our new management is going to operate we are absolutely screwed for years to come...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 11:36 AM
If this is true (and right now there's a lot of assuming going on), we are doomed as a team. Absolutely doomed. Luck may end up being better than Tebow (I doubt it, but it's possible), but he's not going to fix our defense. In fact, to acquire him would eat up additional picks that should be used on defense as well.

If this is how our new management is going to operate we are absolutely screwed for years to come...

We haven't even hired our new coaching staff yet, and you're claiming "doom."

The Mane is a funny place.

elsid13
01-02-2011, 11:38 AM
Of course not...there will be a market for the #1 pick...it just depends on what the asking price is.

Question: Where was Andrew Luck at the beginning of the 2010 season? Did you know he was even listed within the top 5 QB prospects at that time? Jake Locker led that race, followed by Ryan Mallet and Cam Newton...but, no Andrew Luck.

So, really...all the Luck hype...started mid season this year and has carried through to right now. He's not a kid that has been hyped for very long.

The talk about how good Luck is has been going on for over two plus years, he not suddenly shown up on the scene like Cam Newton. You might not of heard of him, but folks that follow college football know all about him and how good he is.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm pretty sure this is a message board, where speculation is encouraged. Could be wrong. But I don't think I am.

As for why we're discussing Luck, we're doing so because he's the most pro-ready QB in the draft. At number 2, there is a chance that we'll have a shot at him. And while Tebow is very good, his strengths are mostly to do with unquantifiable "intangibles" like "winnerliness" and "composure." He still winds up when throwing the ball, and he's still not terribly accurate. That pick he threw last week was, frankly, atrocious.

It's okay to have a discussion about him that includes an honest assessment of his skillset. I hope you'll be able to join us.

Tebow just threw for over 300 yards in his second start. He has a 100 passer rating so far. Why do people keep acting like he can't throw, and that all he has is intangibles? It's baffling...

Dedhed
01-02-2011, 11:39 AM
Exactly. He's an unknown commodity. Is that what we want here?

He has more NFL coaching experience than Urban Meyer.

elsid13
01-02-2011, 11:40 AM
Tebow just threw for over 300 yards in his second start. He has a 100 passer rating so far. Why do people keep acting like he can't throw, and that all he has is intangibles? It's baffling...

He played against the worse pass defense in the last 20 years, it little to early to crown him. He's still is very raw and work in progress.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 11:41 AM
The talk about how good Luck is has been going for over two plus years, he not suddenly shown up on the scene like Cam Newton. You might not of heard of him, but folks that follow college football have know all about him and how good he is.

Two plus years? That's just not true. His first year starting he was a game manager, and was seen as having potential. He's only had one season in which he has been seen as a legitimately elite QB.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 11:41 AM
Tebow just threw for over 300 yards in his second start. He has a 100 passer rating so far. Why do people keep acting like he can't throw, and that all he has is intangibles? It's baffling...

He threw for over 300 yards when his team was behind by 17 points at halftime (so he was forced to pass), and he did so when playing one of the worst secondaries in the league. Why do we pretend this isn't the case?

Again: Did you see the pick he threw last week in the red zone? It. Was. Atrocious. He still looks to run too quickly, in my opinion, and while he's a great leader -- and he is -- I wonder if he'll develop into a true NFL QB.

elsid13
01-02-2011, 11:43 AM
Two plus years? That's just not true. His first year starting he was a game manager, and was seen as having potential. He's only had one season in which he has been seen as a legitimately elite QB.

When folks were all over Locker junk last season, people in the know were talking about Luck.

HooptyHoops
01-02-2011, 11:48 AM
I really, really, REALLY hope Tebow and the Broncos win against Sandy Eggo, just so the possibility of landing (un)Luck is more unlikely.

C'mon Tebow, win this game.

Amen!

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 11:49 AM
He played against the worse pass defense in the last 20 years, it little to early to crown him. He's still is very raw and work in progress.

Who's crowning him? My point is that he can clearly throw. He exceeded the average that defense has been giving up by over 30 yards. He can clearly throw the ball. It isn't just intangibles with him. We didn't win last week because of his intangibles. We won because he passed really well and has great intangibles.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 11:52 AM
When folks were all over Locker junk last season, people in the know were talking about Luck.

People in the know? Like you? Right...

Hamrob
01-02-2011, 11:52 AM
The talk about how good Luck is has been going on for over two plus years, he not suddenly shown up on the scene like Cam Newton. You might not of heard of him, but folks that follow college football know all about him and how good he is.You're too funny...Mr. College Football man. Luck has only played 2 seasons, this being his 2nd. He was a 56% passer last year and only threw for 13 TD's. He showed potential...but, hardly had everyone talking!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 11:53 AM
Agamemnon must be Tebow's mom. I've never seen anyone so fiercely defend... anyone, frankly.

dsmoot
01-02-2011, 11:53 AM
I can't help but read this as a floundering Pat Bowlen reaching out for an anchor. He remembers John and the glory years and hands the reins of power to that memory hoping John can give him another come back.

I hope it works out.

Why does Bowlen hand so much power to inexperienced people?

Reeves / Shanahan / McDaniels / and now John Elway.

Somewhat ignorant statement. Reeves was far from inexperienced coming from Dallas. He was essentially a player/coach like Landry was with the Giants. Shanahan did very well at the beginning of his tenure. Don't you remember how sad the Broncos looked by the time Phillips was done. He acquired some significant free agents that filled the gaps to turn the team into the Superbowl plus some early good drafts. McDaniels, I will give you. What worked for Shanahan and against McDaniels was his inability to relate to players right from the start.

Dedhed
01-02-2011, 11:55 AM
Tebow just threw for over 300 yards in his second start. He has a 100 passer rating so far. Why do people keep acting like he can't throw, and that all he has is intangibles? It's baffling...

They did the same thing when he was in college breaking all sorts of passing records.

There seems to be a segment of the population that just has a blind spot for Tebow. They see what they want to see, so even in a game where he throws for 400 yards they'll see him as a running QB if he scores a rushing TD to win the game.

Hopefully opposing DCs will do the same thing over the course of his entire career.

baja
01-02-2011, 11:56 AM
The reason you would do it...is that we would be giving them the #2 pick. So, essentially, they get the guy they want in the draft (if that's not Luck). Nobody else can offer that. They would get their guy, plus a high #2 for flopping picks with us.

They could take somebody else's offer...Like the Bengals maybe...there might be a team that would give them this year's #1, this year's #2 and next year's #1.

Here's another thought...they might just draft Bowers. They need to replace Peppers, some say.

Well if they don't want Luck why trade with them. They will take the guy they want and that will leave Luck to us if that is what we want. Why waste a 2nd with an unnecessary trade.

Dagmar
01-02-2011, 11:57 AM
Agamemnon must be Tebow's mom. I've never seen anyone so fiercely defend... anyone, frankly.

He's having quite the prolific first day...

elsid13
01-02-2011, 11:57 AM
You're too funny...Mr. College Football man. Luck has only played 2 seasons, this being his 2nd. He was a 56% passer last year and only threw for 13 TD's. He showed potential...but, hardly had everyone talking!

He been the talk of the PAC-10 since he signed with Stanford. You might not of heard of him, but the "hype" has been there for long time

http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-08-24/sports/17121524_1_oliver-luck-class-valedictorian-alex-loukas

http://georgiatech.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=692842

http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-09-10/sports/17157097_1_tavita-pritchard-jim-harbaugh-depth-chart

http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-11-25/sports/17127263_1_tavita-pritchard-toby-gerhart-redshirt-freshman-andrew-luck

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 11:59 AM
"Head coach Jim Harbaugh has brought a physical and mental toughness to Stanford football. They play a 3-4 defense that has exceeded expectations so far. The Cardinal are a physical run team but with one of the best passers in the country in Andrew Luck, who is possibly a future first-round draft pick." Mike Mayock, 2009

Cito Pelon
01-02-2011, 11:59 AM
If we are playing hypothetical, what about the rookie wage cap that'll be in place?

The only thing that is non-hypothetical in this thread is Elway will have a position of power within the franchise.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 12:02 PM
Agamemnon must be Tebow's mom. I've never seen anyone so fiercely defend... anyone, frankly.

Or maybe I'm a fan of what Tebow brings to this team, and get annoyed at all the ignorance aimed in his direction? No one will ever know...

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 12:03 PM
Luck might stay in school, so don't expend too much emotion on the subject.

Smelvin
01-02-2011, 12:04 PM
Jim Harbaugh would be a coup of epic proportions. He took over a 1-11 Stanford team, that everyone knows is severely limited by academic constraints when it comes to recruiting, with very little fan support or anything resembling a positive football culture....and in 4 short years has them sitting at 11-1 and a BCS birth. And their ONLY loss was at Oregon in a game Stanford led at halftime, and if not for some very untimely injuries, Stanford probably wins that game.

In Harbaugh's first season he led Stanford as a 41 point underdog to a win at USC. He defeated Pete Carroll and the almighty Trojans 3 out of 4 years. Under his reign Andrew Luck was his second Heisman runner up in consecutive years. We're talking about freaking Stanford here!

He just wreaks of a guy who will be successful anywhere he goes, especially the NFL. He knows how it works. He's coached in the NFL, his brother is a successful NFL head coach. He runs a pro system, knows how to develop QB's, has developed Stanford into one of the most physical teams in the nation, relates well to players, knows how to handle the media....there is a reason he is the hottest coaching prospect on the planet right now.

I pray he stays at Stanford, but it's a pipe dream. He's too big of a fish for the small pond that is Palo Alto and Stanford football. It's common knowledge that he has a good relationship with Elway, and given his grittiness and overall competitive fire (both as a player and coach), I hold out hope that an opportunity to develop Tebow would be intriguing to him.

Anyone who questions Harbaugh's credentials or worthiness to lead an NFL franchise simply is not paying attention.

As for Luck, he will instantly be an elite QB, but Carolina isn't dumb enough to pass on him or accept any deal for his rights. If they do, their franchise should be contracted.

baja
01-02-2011, 12:06 PM
Somewhat ignorant statement. Reeves was far from inexperienced coming from Dallas. He was essentially a player/coach like Landry was with the Giants. Shanahan did very well at the beginning of his tenure. Don't you remember how sad the Broncos looked by the time Phillips was done. He acquired some significant free agents that filled the gaps to turn the team into the Superbowl plus some early good drafts. McDaniels, I will give you. What worked for Shanahan and against McDaniels was his inability to relate to players right from the start.

My comment wasn't about rather or not the coaches had success with all the power handed to them it was about the trend of Bowlen giving away this power to people with limited experience.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 12:09 PM
Jim Harbaugh would be a coup of epic proportions. He took over a 1-11 Stanford team, that everyone knows is severely limited by academic constraints when it comes to recruiting, with very little fan support or anything resembling a positive football culture....and in 4 short years has them sitting at 11-1 and a BCS birth. And their ONLY loss was at Oregon in a game Stanford led at halftime, and if not for some very untimely injuries, Stanford probably wins that game.

In Harbaugh's first season he led Stanford as a 41 point underdog to a win at USC. He defeated Pete Carroll and the almighty Trojans 3 out of 4 years. Under his reign Andrew Luck was his second Heisman runner up in consecutive years. We're talking about freaking Stanford here!

He just wreaks of a guy who will be successful anywhere he goes, especially the NFL. He knows how it works. He's coached in the NFL, his brother is a successful NFL head coach. He runs a pro system, knows how to develop QB's, has developed Stanford into one of the most physical teams in the nation, relates well to players, knows how to handle the media....there is a reason he is the hottest coaching prospect on the planet right now.

I pray he stays at Stanford, but it's a pipe dream. He's too big of a fish for the small pond that is Palo Alto and Stanford football. It's common knowledge that he has a good relationship with Elway, and given his grittiness and overall competitive fire (both as a player and coach), I hold out hope that an opportunity to develop Tebow would be intriguing to him.

Anyone who questions Harbaugh's credentials or worthiness to lead an NFL franchise simply is not paying attention.

As for Luck, he will instantly be an elite QB, but Carolina isn't dumb enough to pass on him or accept any deal for his rights. If they do, their franchise should be contracted.

I tend to agree with everything you're saying up until the "instantly be an elite QB" nonsense. He may become an elite NFL passer, but it sure won't be instant. Personally I still don't buy the whole "can't miss prospect" nonsense in general. There is no such thing when it comes to 1st round QBs.

SoCalBronco
01-02-2011, 12:10 PM
Cool. Now we'll trade Tebow to Carolina for the number one pick and take Andrew Luck. :thumbs:

(I'll post this over here, cause this thread was first)

That's actually very likely, IMO. Not sure if I agree with that, or the Harbaugh hire, but it does seem like the way its going.

bpc
01-02-2011, 12:15 PM
Jim Harbaugh would be a coup of epic proportions. He took over a 1-11 Stanford team, that everyone knows is severely limited by academic constraints when it comes to recruiting, with very little fan support or anything resembling a positive football culture....and in 4 short years has them sitting at 11-1 and a BCS birth. And their ONLY loss was at Oregon in a game Stanford led at halftime, and if not for some very untimely injuries, Stanford probably wins that game.

In Harbaugh's first season he led Stanford as a 41 point underdog to a win at USC. He defeated Pete Carroll and the almighty Trojans 3 out of 4 years. Under his reign Andrew Luck was his second Heisman runner up in consecutive years. We're talking about freaking Stanford here!

He just wreaks of a guy who will be successful anywhere he goes, especially the NFL. He knows how it works. He's coached in the NFL, his brother is a successful NFL head coach. He runs a pro system, knows how to develop QB's, has developed Stanford into one of the most physical teams in the nation, relates well to players, knows how to handle the media....there is a reason he is the hottest coaching prospect on the planet right now.

I pray he stays at Stanford, but it's a pipe dream. He's too big of a fish for the small pond that is Palo Alto and Stanford football. It's common knowledge that he has a good relationship with Elway, and given his grittiness and overall competitive fire (both as a player and coach), I hold out hope that an opportunity to develop Tebow would be intriguing to him.

Anyone who questions Harbaugh's credentials or worthiness to lead an NFL franchise simply is not paying attention.

As for Luck, he will instantly be an elite QB, but Carolina isn't dumb enough to pass on him or accept any deal for his rights. If they do, their franchise should be contracted.

How can somebody say he'll instantly be an elite QB? He's only had one dominant year as a passer. As that was, it was in the pathetic Pac 12 defensive league who has given such great 1st round QB's as: Cade McNown, Akili Smith, Matt Leinart, Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, among others. The jury is still out on Mark Sanchez.

I don't think Luck will be bad at all but to say he's automatic would being lying. He's has zero championships on the college level, he has yet to win a bowl game, and he's been fortunate to have a good defense, a great running game and one of the better up and coming coaches in college football.

Tebow probably has better throwing stats vs. Luck and that would probably remain true even if he stayed next year. 2 National Championships to boot.

An Elway/Harbaugh/Luck movement would undo any unification Broncos country has gone under since the Poison known as McDaniels was ejected. That's a scary setup, that and the fact that we would be developing our fourth QB in 5 years... Cutler, Orton, Tebow and eventually Luck. Stupidity like this is why some franchises suck, and others do not. You have turnover at the top and every new guy wants to bring in his fresh set of guys. When the rebuild takes a long time, coach/gm/fo gets relieved of duty and you start the process over again. Unfortunately when we fired Shanahan, we jumped on the inconsistent roller coaster that most NFL teams get to suffer through. Too late to stop the process now, hopefully the FO comes to their senses and goes in a different direction with our 1st overall pick vs. Luck.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 12:15 PM
Or maybe I'm a fan of what Tebow brings to this team, and get annoyed at all the ignorance aimed in his direction? No one will ever know...

So Tebow has zero shortcomings, is that correct?

And he played an all pro pass defense last week? Is that right?

I honestly don't understand why you're unable to have a discussion of the pros AND CONS of Tim Tebow. Unless, of course, you're Tim's mom.

Would that make you the Virgin Mary?

Smelvin
01-02-2011, 12:16 PM
I tend to agree with everything you're saying up until the "instantly be an elite QB" nonsense. He may become an elite NFL passer, but it sure won't be instant. Personally I still don't buy the whole "can't miss prospect" nonsense in general. There is no such thing when it comes to 1st round QBs.

I agree with that. Luck will clearly have his growing pains, as almost all rookie QB's do, but he's an elite talent, with an unquestioned work ethic and cerebral aptitude that rivals Peyton Manning. He has a photographic memory. He hates the spotlight - the anti-Matt Leinart per se. He's the real deal folks, but as I said before, Carolina isn't dumb enough to let him slip through their grasp if he does indeed declare. We're wasting our time talking about him.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 12:16 PM
I tend to agree with everything you're saying up until the "instantly be an elite QB" nonsense. He may become an elite NFL passer, but it sure won't be instant. Personally I still don't buy the whole "can't miss prospect" nonsense in general. * There is no such thing when it comes to 1st round QBs.

*Unless referring to Tim Tebow, who is a "can't miss" first round quarterback in your eyes.

bpc
01-02-2011, 12:21 PM
Nobody is saying that Tebow doesn't have shortcomings and needs to grow as a player. That stuff happens on the field and in only his 2nd game the man had a 300 yd passing game. I don't care if it was the Texans or not.

Straight up, I'll take the heart and leadership of a Tebow with half the physical ability vs. a guy with a huge arm and the little spine to make the game altering play. Not saying that's Luck but we have a guy in tow that we spent a year developing already. Let's take our picks and cast them at areas that actually need fixing, ie, not the QB position. We already have talent there and Luck is not a Peyton Manning in my eyes making this a slamdunk situation.

i4jelway7
01-02-2011, 12:25 PM
if Luck is on the board when we draft we have to draft him, regardless of Tebow's play.. if we do draft him we then have the luxury of trading him for a kings ransom or keeping him & trading Tebow.. .either way the team gets more picks to reload the roster

baja
01-02-2011, 12:27 PM
Nobody is saying that Tebow doesn't have shortcomings and needs to grow as a player. That stuff happens on the field and in only his 2nd game the man had a 300 yd passing game. I don't care if it was the Texans or not.

Straight up, I'll take the heart and leadership of a Tebow with half the physical ability vs. a guy with a huge arm and the little spine to make the game altering play. Not saying that's Luck but we have a guy in tow that we spent a year developing already. Let's take our picks and cast them at areas that actually need fixing, ie, not the QB position. We already have talent there and Luck is not a Peyton Manning in my eyes making this a slamdunk situation.

Aren't you worried about who it was that spent a year developing Tebow?

I mean you have told me that McD has poisoned everything he has touched in Broncoland. ;D

Smelvin
01-02-2011, 12:28 PM
if Luck is on the board when we draft we have to draft him, regardless of Tebow's play.. if we do draft him we then have the luxury of trading him for a kings ransom or keeping him & trading Tebow.. .either way the team gets more picks to reload the roster

There is zero chance he'll be on the board when we draft unless we trade up. If Luck declares he will go #1 overall. End of story.

bpc
01-02-2011, 12:30 PM
Aren't you worried about who it was that spent a year developing Tebow? ;D

No, because i've always given McDaniels credit for his QB coaching ability. It's when he was allowed to influence things with his arrogance is when he got in trouble, on the field and in personnel decisions. Case it point when asked if Tebow was going to play... "that's ridiculous..."

bpc
01-02-2011, 12:31 PM
There is zero chance he'll be on the board when we draft unless we trade up. If Luck declares he will go #1 overall. End of story.

Which will make the situation even more exasperating when we trade a bunch of picks or players to move up to draft a position we already have filled, putting us that much farther behind the 8-ball.

Smelvin
01-02-2011, 12:35 PM
Which will make the situation even more exasperating when we trade a bunch of picks or players to move up to draft a position we already have filled, putting us that much farther behind the 8-ball.

I don't think we'd do that given what Tebow has shown.

But it's moot because Carolina will not trade the pick. When you have a chance to draft an elite QB talent like Luck, who brings with him all the intangibles you look for in a leader, you draft him. Simple as that.

This is a QB driven league and they have garbage at QB with a chance to draft a guy who will change their franchise. You don't pass on that no matter what the offer is.

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2011, 12:38 PM
Harbaugh will more likely go to Michigan. He might not even want this job first things first guys.

Smelvin
01-02-2011, 12:39 PM
Harbaugh will more likely go to Michigan. He might not even want this job.

Unfortunately, I agree 100%.

Rigs11
01-02-2011, 12:49 PM
Jeebus people, how many signal callers are you going to want before you are satisfied?didn't you all just change to the tebow avatars?

TonyR
01-02-2011, 12:54 PM
Harbaugh will more likely go to Michigan. He might not even want this job first things first guys.

Very possible, but at the same time would you be at all surprised if Elway closed the deal this week? Harbaugh very likely wants back in the NFL at some point, where his brother has been very successful, and since he reportedly isn't interested in San Fran you have to like Denver's chances.

Garcia Bronco
01-02-2011, 12:57 PM
Luck isn't even in the same league as Tebow.

bowtown
01-02-2011, 12:58 PM
Luck isn't even in the same league as Tebow.

Right, because the draft hasn't happened yet.

elsid13
01-02-2011, 12:59 PM
I am excited if we get Harbaugh. Because it means back to power running and PA. Throw in he will keep the 3/4 and it is a good match.

TonyR
01-02-2011, 01:00 PM
Luck isn't even in the same league as Tebow.

Is this just a clever play on words or do you really not think Luck is as good of a pro prospect as Tebow? If the latter I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone in the NFL that agrees with you.

oubronco
01-02-2011, 01:00 PM
I am excited if we get Harbaugh. Because it means back to power running and PA. Throw in he will keep the 3/4 and it is a good match.

Exactly

Jekyll15Hyde
01-02-2011, 01:01 PM
I don't think we'd do that given what Tebow has shown.

What is that exactly outside of the intangibles (work ethic, passion, etc)?

Garbage yards while down big, mostly on screen passes against a terrible pass D is what I have seen. And I see a guy needs to run 7-10 times a game to give his team a chance win (due to passing deficiencies). That may be exciting to watch, but he wont survive over the long term if that is the recipe. Most importantly, it wont win championships which is of course the end game. I am frankly surprised at how many knowledgeable posters here have fallen in love with him.

I sort of get it with recent history... but not completely.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 01:02 PM
Is this just a clever play on words or do you really not think Luck is as good of a pro prospect as Tebow? If the latter I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone in the NFL that agrees with you.

From what I've read, I doubt you could find a scout who doesn't think Luck is a better prospect than Tebow.

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2011, 01:03 PM
Very possible, but at the same time would you be at all surprised if Elway closed the deal this week? Harbaugh very likely wants back in the NFL at some point, where his brother has been very successful, and since he reportedly isn't interested in San Fran you have to like Denver's chances.

Don't get me wrong he's my #1 choice. I'm just saying why argue about Luck etc til he is actually our hc.

Garcia Bronco
01-02-2011, 01:04 PM
Right, because the draft hasn't happened yet.

:)

Requiem
01-02-2011, 01:06 PM
QB isn't a worry like our defense is and other parts of our team. If we get Luck and piss away what Tebow has to offer, it will be absolutely ludicrous.

steeledude
01-02-2011, 01:14 PM
Guys--have some faith in Elway. He's not necessarily power hungry. He has already said he doesn't know how to pick personnel but he knows a bunch of people who can. He seems well aware of his limitations and is actively seeking the RIGHT people for the job, which is something this organization has been lacking for years. Even though I love the Shanahan years, having a true GM would've done wonders for this team.

John sees this--what he wants to do, from my impression of the, albeit limited, things he's said, is to get the right people in the right places.

As for Luck--I think Elway has seen what Tebow has done. I have enough faith in him to push for the kid. We need to draft defense. If Tebow sucks next year we can always pick the next SURE thing. They're there every year, and more often than not don't look amazing.

Chris
01-02-2011, 01:15 PM
The key to a successful person is knowing your own strengths and weaknesses and surrounding yourself with great people that compensate for your weaknesses. Elway has been successful in the past as a businessman. He can apply what he's learned here.

Cito Pelon
01-02-2011, 01:16 PM
if Luck is on the board when we draft we have to draft him, regardless of Tebow's play.. if we do draft him we then have the luxury of trading him for a kings ransom or keeping him & trading Tebow.. .either way the team gets more picks to reload the roster

I'm kinda curious if that will be how it plays out.

OrangenBlueOhio
01-02-2011, 01:20 PM
Given the sorry state Mcd left this franchise, and the chance of a lockout year on the horizon, I can't think of a better time to give Mr. Elway a chance at running the show. How awesome would it be if he takes the Broncos back to being a powerhouse, as he did while he was playing.

I agree it could be a long shot given his experience, but it is one I am more than willing to give the greatest Bronco of all time. Good luck John.

ton80
01-02-2011, 01:23 PM
per PFT:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/02/this-ones-for-john-elway-set-to-run-broncos/



Good stuff, though very very scary that a guy with no experience will be making significant team choices. I know hes a good football and business mind, but this really needs to be more like ozzie newsome and less like matt millen. Can someone do a coach chronicle on harbaugh?

Also per PFT: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/12/as-elway-prepares-to-join-broncos-other-teams-nod-and-smile/



They absolutely need to understand what his role is, and it should be to assist in making decisions and give his input as someone who played and can still connect with current players. If he goes in and runs the show, this could be a total disaster.

Elway owns car dealerships, restaurants, and a professional football team. Yeah, I suppose I see the comparison between Millen and Elway.

ton80
01-02-2011, 01:27 PM
Why Harbaugh? His first order of buisness is to hire this guy? Why not do a coaching search, and interview some people? How does Studsville feel about his talk on Monday now?

Studsville becomes the Broncos' token minority interview. I would be shocked if he got the job.

Broncos_OTM
01-02-2011, 01:55 PM
My issues is can elway and xanders and harbaugh bring in expirenced cordinators. I like that hopefully there will be a checks and balances put in place. Good luck john

Drek
01-02-2011, 03:50 PM
My issues is can elway and xanders and harbaugh bring in expirenced cordinators. I like that hopefully there will be a checks and balances put in place. Good luck john

I wouldn't assume Xanders sticks around. PFT had a story about how he's expected to be out the door as well. They're the one putting up most of the Broncos FO related stories, so if we're taking this one at face value we should probably give that one some credence as well.

I'm betting Xanders gets bumped down to a cap management role again, a real personnel man is brought in to run the GM side of things, and Harbaugh is given a hand finding some assistants.

If Sparano gets booted from Miami I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nolan comes back here to be our DC again.

elsid13
01-02-2011, 03:56 PM
On Luck

"He's the complete package," John Elway told The San Francisco Chronicle

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/stanford-quarterback-andrew-luck-shuns-the-spotlight-but-1158791.html

halfcreek
01-02-2011, 04:01 PM
Hinton and Herrmann for Luck.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-02-2011, 04:04 PM
hinton and herrmann for luck.

the deal is done!

halfcreek
01-02-2011, 04:13 PM
the deal is done![/QUOTE]:approve:

orange crusher
01-02-2011, 05:32 PM
I wouldn't assume Xanders sticks around. PFT had a story about how he's expected to be out the door as well. They're the one putting up most of the Broncos FO related stories, so if we're taking this one at face value we should probably give that one some credence as well.

I'm betting Xanders gets bumped down to a cap management role again, a real personnel man is brought in to run the GM side of things, and Harbaugh is given a hand finding some assistants.

If Sparano gets booted from Miami I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nolan comes back here to be our DC again.

Hope you're right on the GM. I hadn't thought about Sparano - would love to get Nolan back for the DC.

Broncojef
01-02-2011, 06:03 PM
I wouldn't assume Xanders sticks around. PFT had a story about how he's expected to be out the door as well. They're the one putting up most of the Broncos FO related stories, so if we're taking this one at face value we should probably give that one some credence as well.

I'm betting Xanders gets bumped down to a cap management role again, a real personnel man is brought in to run the GM side of things, and Harbaugh is given a hand finding some assistants.

If Sparano gets booted from Miami I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nolan comes back here to be our DC again.

I bet Elway gets added and Xanders/Ellis remain in place with no new body to fill everyone's GM gap. Getting Harbaugh would be an absolute steal. The back room deals and conversations surrounding Luck and how to acquire him would be incredible to listen to.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 06:05 PM
I'm betting Xanders gets bumped down to a cap management role again, a real personnel man is brought in to run the GM side of things, and Harbaugh is given a hand finding some assistants.


Oh how I hope this is true...

strafen
01-02-2011, 06:09 PM
Oh how I hope this is true...I think I've heard that he would be involved in what he was doing before on contract and salary cap and administrative issues-

They could be bringing in a new GM to handle personnel matters as I don't think Xanders would be getting any split duties there.
Either way, the GM(s) will be reporting directly to Elway...

Cmac821
01-02-2011, 06:11 PM
well if we draft Luck it could set back the franchise for some time, what would you do with Tebow. Can't trade because he seems to be loved by his team mates and the fans. Getting rid of Tebow would be an absolute PR nightmare

Bronco Yoda
01-02-2011, 06:14 PM
For all we know, Tebow may fit Harbaugh's brand of football better than Luck. I guarantee you, if Elway and Harbaugh were having a discussion regarding the HC job, it wouldn't take more than a few seconds for the subject of Tebow to come up.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall during that convo. I think we should send an OM'er with some high tech listening equipment. Send TJ in drag to pose as a cleaning lady at Johns hotel.

I wonder what Josh would charge us to get some exclusive video with sound?

Atwater His Ass
01-02-2011, 06:19 PM
well if we draft Luck it could set back the franchise for some time, what would you do with Tebow. Can't trade because he seems to be loved by his team mates and the fans. Getting rid of Tebow would be an absolute PR nightmare

They're not going to keep Tebow if they draft Luck.

I don't think it'd be a PR nightmare to trade Tebow. It's easily explainable if Luck is indeed drafted. The issue will be the one thing that has begun to draw the fans back together has been Tebow.

It will put immediate and immense pressure on the Elway mistique to hold it all together if that happens. Because if that happens, and without Elway, this team and fan base would be back to square 1 once again. Having Elway around will probably hold it all together for a year or so, but if the move is unsuccessful, wow, look out John.

cabronco
01-02-2011, 06:22 PM
As much as I like Tebow, Im not going to buy his jersey til after the draft. If Harbaugh does get hired, then odds increase of persuing Luck if he declares. We would get draft pick from another team wanting Orton. Not sure how Tebows contract would shake out.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 06:24 PM
I don't think it'd be a PR nightmare to trade Tebow.

Seriously? Hilarious!

HooptyHoops
01-02-2011, 06:26 PM
You know, I'm not high on Harbaugh, but, in another thread didn't it say that the Bronco's wanted Harbaugh and also wanted him paired with DeCosta? I think most of us want DeCosta, so if Harbaugh is part of the plan, let's do this thing!

Bronco Yoda
01-02-2011, 06:28 PM
I'm going to have a major shiat and fall in it, if we hire Harbaugh and he pulls a McD to get Luck.

Cmac821
01-02-2011, 06:29 PM
Getting luck would require trading two QBs.The risk to trade a proven QB (Orton) and on top of it all the fan favorite (Tebow) just to get a rookie is unimaginable.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 06:32 PM
I'm going to have a major shiat and fall in it, if we hire Harbaugh and he pulls a McD to get Luck.

I'm assuming that he wouldn't have the same powers as McD, so I'm pretty sure that couldn't really happen. Unless he was just really convincing in his talks with the GM.

baja
01-02-2011, 06:42 PM
If Pat thinks hiring a ex player that is responsible for winning you 2 super bowls is somehow the answer to right the ship at the administrative level than he should be talking to Terrell Davis.

Houshyamama
01-02-2011, 06:48 PM
Trade Tebow to Jacksonville for their #1

Draft Luck.

Could happen.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 06:53 PM
I wouldn't assume Xanders sticks around. PFT had a story about how he's expected to be out the door as well. They're the one putting up most of the Broncos FO related stories, so if we're taking this one at face value we should probably give that one some credence as well.

I'm betting Xanders gets bumped down to a cap management role again, a real personnel man is brought in to run the GM side of things, and Harbaugh is given a hand finding some assistants.

If Sparano gets booted from Miami I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nolan comes back here to be our DC again.

I would think that he would just bring Vic Fangio with him. His way of looking at defense would be pretty seamless with what we've been trying to do.
http://www.mytimesdispatch.com/index.php/sports/comments/stanford_defensive_players_thanking_their_lord_and _coordinator_vic_fan/14199/

Broncoman13
01-02-2011, 07:08 PM
Well if the Panthers take him, it's a moot point.

I've been telling you for two weeks that there has been a lot of chatter for them to make a move on Luck. I told you last night that they would be going after Harbaugh. I'm kind of torn here. I feel like we can win with Tim Tebow. Build a strong defense and have him lead to scoring 21-24 points per game.

Scares me how much we may have to give up for Luck. If the Panthers really do like him, they are going to end up with our #2 pick (plus you know they like Bowers!) and probably one of our 2nd round picks... plus a player! I'm guessing that player would be a guy we like around these parts but the Broncos have seemed to cool down on him quite a bit... Eddie Royal. Haven't heard that specifically. But I have heard the Harbaugh and a run on Luck piece... A LOT.

cabronco
01-02-2011, 07:08 PM
Trade Tebow to Jacksonville for their #1

Draft Luck.

Could happen.

Ya thought about that too. I'm sure J-ville would have interest in him, maybe Miami too. Could use those picks to help draft defense. Alot of possibilities. I kind of hope Luck doesnt come out so it will be mute point.

Broncoman13
01-02-2011, 07:13 PM
They're not going to keep Tebow if they draft Luck.

I don't think it'd be a PR nightmare to trade Tebow. It's easily explainable if Luck is indeed drafted. The issue will be the one thing that has begun to draw the fans back together has been Tebow.

It will put immediate and immense pressure on the Elway mistique to hold it all together if that happens. Because if that happens, and without Elway, this team and fan base would be back to square 1 once again. Having Elway around will probably hold it all together for a year or so, but if the move is unsuccessful, wow, look out John.


Hahaha... The Broncos have sold over 50k Tebow Jerseys... and that was before he became a starter and had some success. There will be more fan backlash over getting rid of Tebow than there was in getting rid of Cutler.

They won't let Tebow go. They'll find a way to use him as gimmick back or something. Kind of sucks. Not that I don't like Luck... I just really like Tebow.