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peacepipe
01-02-2011, 07:14 PM
I've been telling you for two weeks that there has been a lot of chatter for them to make a move on Luck. I told you last night that they would be going after Harbaugh. I'm kind of torn here. I feel like we can win with Tim Tebow. Build a strong defense and have him lead to scoring 21-24 points per game.

Scares me how much we may have to give up for Luck. If the Panthers really do like him, they are going to end up with our #2 pick (plus you know they like Bowers!) and probably one of our 2nd round picks... plus a player! I'm guessing that player would be a guy we like around these parts but the Broncos have seemed to cool down on him quite a bit... Eddie Royal. Haven't heard that specifically. But I have heard the Harbaugh and a run on Luck piece... A LOT.technicly it would just cost us our 2nd in order to trade up.

peacepipe
01-02-2011, 07:16 PM
well if we draft Luck it could set back the franchise for some time, what would you do with Tebow. Can't trade because he seems to be loved by his team mates and the fans. Getting rid of Tebow would be an absolute PR nightmareno more than tebow,tebow isn't exactly a polished QB.

footstepsfrom#27
01-02-2011, 07:23 PM
technicly it would just cost us our 2nd in order to trade up.
You seriously think the Panthers would settle for that? I think not. They will take him themselves or extract a mint for this guy...book it.

Agamemnon
01-02-2011, 07:27 PM
You seriously think the Panthers would settle for that? I think not. They will take him themselves or extract a mint for this guy...book it.

Pretty much. For us to get the #1 pick would probably take our 2nd and our 1st next year, at a minimum. Tebow might be swappable with the 2nd rounder depending on how their GM feels about him.

It would be so stupid it hurts my head just thinking about it.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-02-2011, 07:28 PM
technicly it would just cost us our 2nd in order to trade up.

Seriously? Get off the ****ing draft chart.

There are going to be multiple teams who want that pick if Carolina wants to move it.

It cost SD something like #3, their 2nd, a future 1st, and at least one player to move from 3rd to 2nd just to draft whoever the Colts didn't draft out of Leaf or Manning.

Drek
01-02-2011, 09:12 PM
I would think that he would just bring Vic Fangio with him. His way of looking at defense would be pretty seamless with what we've been trying to do.
http://www.mytimesdispatch.com/index.php/sports/comments/stanford_defensive_players_thanking_their_lord_and _coordinator_vic_fan/14199/

I would think he'd be Stanford's first option to replace Harbaugh, so would he rather be an NFL DC or a college HC?

BroncoInferno
01-02-2011, 09:15 PM
I would think he'd be Stanford's first option to replace Harbaugh, so would he rather be an NFL DC or a college HC?

I don't know...if they elect to hire within the staff they may look to go with offensive coordinator David Shaw. He's a good bit younger than Fangio and is also a Stanford alum. You figure Harbaugh will bring some of assistants at Stanford with him, but I hope he goes with someone more experienced at the NFL level than Shaw for OC. I'd be fine with Fangio as DC.

strafen
01-02-2011, 09:18 PM
Seriously? Get off the ****ing draft chart.

There are going to be multiple teams who want that pick if Carolina wants to move it.

It cost SD something like #3, their 2nd, a future 1st, and at least one player to move from 3rd to 2nd just to draft whoever the Colts didn't draft out of Leaf or Manning.Word.
For Luck, there will be plenty teams lined up to deal.

Rohirrim
01-02-2011, 09:35 PM
I don't know...if they elect to hire within the staff they may look to go with offensive coordinator David Shaw. He's a good bit younger than Fangio and is also a Stanford alum. You figure Harbaugh will bring some of assistants at Stanford with him, but I hope he goes with someone more experienced at the NFL level than Shaw for OC. I'd be fine with Fangio as DC.

Originally, Harbaugh hired Ron Turner (Norv's brother) as the OC, but then Turner decided to take the receiver's coach job at Indy. I wouldn't be surprised if Jim called him up again, if he got the Denver HC job. Turner is from the Coryell tree, though. I don't think Tebow would fit his schemes at all. Turner did well with Orton, so that would be kind of weird.

Houshyamama
01-02-2011, 09:51 PM
I have a stupid question to ask.

Last year it was Jake Locker this and Jake Locker that.

Why has he fallen so far? Washington's lack of success? It's not like they were ever any good anyway.

Why Luck now over Locker?

OrangeSe7en
01-02-2011, 09:57 PM
I have a stupid question to ask.

Last year it was Jake Locker this and Jake Locker that.

Why has he fallen so far? Washington's lack of success? It's not like they were ever any good anyway.

Why Luck now over Locker?

1. Luck is eligible for the draft now
2. Locker had a bad year this year
3. Luck didnt have a bad year

Houshyamama
01-02-2011, 09:59 PM
1. Luck is eligible for the draft now
2. Locker had a bad year this year
3. Luck didnt have a bad year

I figured as much, it just seems like a crazy fall from a projected number 1 to somewhere late in the first or even the second. Goes to show you just how hyped up these guys at the top can be.

tsiguy96
01-02-2011, 10:03 PM
I figured as much, it just seems like a crazy fall from a projected number 1 to somewhere late in the first or even the second. Goes to show you just how hyped up these guys at the top can be.

its like taht every single year. and makes me wonder why when a guy has a chance to go out and be a top 10 pick, why dont they do it, nothing really positive comes from staying in school at that point.

Houshyamama
01-02-2011, 10:08 PM
its like taht every single year. and makes me wonder why when a guy has a chance to go out and be a top 10 pick, why dont they do it, nothing really positive comes from staying in school at that point.

Yeah, I had a feeling this would happen. I don't understand it either.

Dudeskey
01-02-2011, 10:11 PM
Originally, Harbaugh hired Ron Turner (Norv's brother) as the OC, but then Turner decided to take the receiver's coach job at Indy. I wouldn't be surprised if Jim called him up again, if he got the Denver HC job. Turner is from the Coryell tree, though. I don't think Tebow would fit his schemes at all. Turner did well with Orton, so that would be kind of weird.

Wouldn't want Ron Turner, after watching the bang-up job he did w/ Grossman, Orton & Cutler in Chicago. Oh and don't get your hopes up too high for Harbaugh. Rich-Rod is likely to be fired by Michigan this week & it stands to reason Harbaugh may jump on that opportunity...

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=rivals-1171703
Excerpt:

Speculation from several NFL sources, including ESPNís Adam Schefter, indicates Stanford head coach and Michigan alum Jim Harbaugh will reject overtures from the San Francisco 49ers and others to become the next head coach at U-M.

misturanderson
01-02-2011, 10:24 PM
1. Luck is eligible for the draft now
2. Locker had a bad year this year
3. Luck didnt have a bad year

That's an oversimplification. It's more like:
1. Last year's QB class was epically weak, making Locker seem like a better prospect than he actually was.
2. Locker didn't improve his pathetic stats that, had he declared last year, would have caused the #1 overall hyperbole to die down once people realized that he actually isn't a very good QB, he just runs very fast for a QB.
3. Luck surpassed expectations to the point that people now think that he will declare for the draft as a red shirt sophomore where as last year that wasn't even a possibility because he was playing in a much more run-heavy offense in 2009 and his stats reflected both the system and his inexperience. Most people had Luck being a top prospect for the 2012 draft.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-02-2011, 10:25 PM
Hahaha... The Broncos have sold over 50k Tebow Jerseys... and that was before he became a starter and had some success.

Reference??

ScottXray
01-02-2011, 10:31 PM
Looks like the other thread just got moved. But a head coach with only two years of pro coaching experience in the NFL? And that for the Oakland Raiders? ugh and bleh.

Hmm...well maybe Harbaugh has an intense dislike for Al Davis.....?

Then again you have to question the intelligence of anyone that would take the Oakland HC job in the last 10 years.

Harbaugh has turned around Stanfords program...but College isn't the NFL, and all good things come to an end.

I would prefer a defensive minded coach, but we have a tradition of ignoring defense here in Denver.

broncocalijohn
01-02-2011, 10:34 PM
i wouldnt be sure. a HC job first and foremost is to evaluate his team and its needs and try to fill them. if former players do that, great. but not waste your best resources on areas of strength.

True as Carroll did not go after all the SC players he could gather just because they were under his stable. If anything, Elway can help Tebow be an Elway type QB at the pro level.

SoCalBronco
01-02-2011, 10:46 PM
I've been telling you for two weeks that there has been a lot of chatter for them to make a move on Luck. I told you last night that they would be going after Harbaugh. I'm kind of torn here. I feel like we can win with Tim Tebow. Build a strong defense and have him lead to scoring 21-24 points per game.

Scares me how much we may have to give up for Luck. If the Panthers really do like him, they are going to end up with our #2 pick (plus you know they like Bowers!) and probably one of our 2nd round picks... plus a player! I'm guessing that player would be a guy we like around these parts but the Broncos have seemed to cool down on him quite a bit... Eddie Royal. Haven't heard that specifically. But I have heard the Harbaugh and a run on Luck piece... A LOT.

Some thoughts on a good post from Alex as usual.

1. I think we could score more than 21-24 points per game with Tebow for the following reasons: 1) There is usually a pretty big jump in QB play from Year 1 to Year 2 and with Tim's work ethic, the leap might be even bigger than expected, 2) an offense centered around Tebow's strengths is an offense difficult to defend and gameplan against...screens, bootlegs, Gun option principles and NFL spread principles, it won't be your typical bland NFL offense that a scout team could easily replicate, 3) our red zone percentage with a raw Tebow was significantly higher than normal...this has been our problem forever, if we could bump up our RZ TD% to say 70% from 55%, that's probably worth a few points per game, and probably 2 wins a year. IMO, we could average 24-26 a game with a more experienced Tebow.

2. I have also noticed that Royal has been kind of phased out, especially the last few games. He was strong early in the season, but its been kind of like 2009 for him recently. I'm almost totally sure it is system specific. We KNOW Royal can play. I feel bad for him and I dont want him to go. I'd like to see the new staff use him more. He's very dangerous. McD did not do a very good job getting the most out of this very skilled asset. IMO, whoever comes in has to probably be committed to a wide open spread offense, if for no other reason than WR is an area of GREAT strength: Lloyd, Thomas, Decker, Royal, Gaff. Gaff may fall off out of the system, but the other four are big threats. I expect huge things from D. Thomas next season.

3. I would not part with #2 overall, a 2nd rounder and a decent player for Luck. IMO, the best option is to stick with Tim and move down at least once and preferably twice in Round 1. I want a MINIMUM of six picks in the first three rounds, and preferably seven.

cabronco
01-02-2011, 11:05 PM
Yes Alex's post does sound the most logical.

Tebow will be even better QB next year, and tough for defenses to defend.

If we can move back a spot or two and get more picks, is exactly what the Broncos need, in particular defense. We need to fortify many positions on D, and should be a priority for a change. I wouldnt mind us picking up a RB too, somewhere along the line. Moreno seems to be a supplemental type back.

Circle Orange
01-02-2011, 11:23 PM
$50m guaranteed says no to this theory. That's the difference between the Elway situation and the Luck situation. Money does the talking here.

That and the fact Elway had baseball as leverage also...Rozelle stated they had to keep the guy in the NFL, since Steinbrenner was ready to pony up some serious cash. I don't think Luck's in the same category.

Circle Orange
01-02-2011, 11:27 PM
Nobody is saying that Tebow doesn't have shortcomings and needs to grow as a player. That stuff happens on the field and in only his 2nd game the man had a 300 yd passing game. I don't care if it was the Texans or not.

Straight up, I'll take the heart and leadership of a Tebow with half the physical ability vs. a guy with a huge arm and the little spine to make the game altering play. Not saying that's Luck but we have a guy in tow that we spent a year developing already. Let's take our picks and cast them at areas that actually need fixing, ie, not the QB position. We already have talent there and Luck is not a Peyton Manning in my eyes making this a slamdunk situation.

I find comparisons the 'experts' and commentators make to Manning pretty amusing, since these are the same dorks who said Ryan Leaf was better and that Manning was a big, robotic stiff.

Truth is, he IS a big, robotic stiff...but he wins so no one says so. :~ohyah!:

Williams
01-02-2011, 11:39 PM
Some thoughts on a good post from Alex as usual.

1. I think we could score more than 21-24 points per game with Tebow for the following reasons: 1) There is usually a pretty big jump in QB play from Year 1 to Year 2 and with Tim's work ethic, the leap might be even bigger than expected, 2) an offense centered around Tebow's strengths is an offense difficult to defend and gameplan against...screens, bootlegs, Gun option principles and NFL spread principles, it won't be your typical bland NFL offense that a scout team could easily replicate, 3) our red zone percentage with a raw Tebow was significantly higher than normal...this has been our problem forever, if we could bump up our RZ TD% to say 70% from 55%, that's probably worth a few points per game, and probably 2 wins a year. IMO, we could average 24-26 a game with a more experienced Tebow.

2. I have also noticed that Royal has been kind of phased out, especially the last few games. He was strong early in the season, but its been kind of like 2009 for him recently. I'm almost totally sure it is system specific. We KNOW Royal can play. I feel bad for him and I dont want him to go. I'd like to see the new staff use him more. He's very dangerous. McD did not do a very good job getting the most out of this very skilled asset. IMO, whoever comes in has to probably be committed to a wide open spread offense, if for no other reason than WR is an area of GREAT strength: Lloyd, Thomas, Decker, Royal, Gaff. Gaff may fall off out of the system, but the other four are big threats. I expect huge things from D. Thomas next season.

3. I would not part with #2 overall, a 2nd rounder and a decent player for Luck. IMO, the best option is to stick with Tim and move down at least once and preferably twice in Round 1. I want a MINIMUM of six picks in the first three rounds, and preferably seven.

Great post, I agree on all points. Love the thought of an improved Tebow next year. On the topic of work ethic, see http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Chargers-Postgame-Tebow/2d7d076e-b9b7-41ee-81a4-d96323dd91af (Den/SD post-game presser). You just gotta love this kid.

broncocalijohn
01-02-2011, 11:47 PM
We can move down a few spots and possibly get a 3rd rounder to boot as since we no longer hold it. This is where I dont think Elway is going to be any factor as I doubt he can tell us (but his opinion) on upcoming college kids. KC got a lot with their draft and it took only a few years.

OrangeSe7en
01-02-2011, 11:50 PM
We can move down a few spots and possibly get a 3rd rounder also since we no longer hold it. This is where I dont think Elway is going to be any factor as I doubt he can tell us (but his opinion) on upcoming college kids. KC got a lot with their draft and it took only a few years.

I just looked at the value chart. 3 spots would be worth a first.

eddie mac
01-03-2011, 12:36 AM
IMHO this comes down to more than football and you have to ask yourself would Bowlen be prepared to give up on the cash cow that is Tim Tebow, nevermind the football player after just one season of coining it in???

broncocalijohn
01-03-2011, 12:49 AM
I just looked at the value chart. 3 spots would be worth a first.

Oh, I know moving down is more than a third rounder but if we continue to trade down, a 3rd might be thrown into one of the trade offers to get us to bite. I want a RB in the third (or late 2nd if we have multiple picks).

Cito Pelon
01-03-2011, 01:03 AM
IMHO this comes down to more than football and you have to ask yourself would Bowlen be prepared to give up on the cash cow that is Tim Tebow, nevermind the football player after just one season of coining it in???

Who knows what goes through the mind of Bowlen. Apparently, Bowlen doesn't even run the team, that would be Joe Ellis. And now Elway and Ellis will be in contention for grand poobah. Xanders caters to whomever, the scouting staff doesn't know what the f is going on, Champ, Orton, and I says the same.

Broncoman13
01-03-2011, 04:24 AM
Who knows what goes through the mind of Bowlen. Apparently, Bowlen doesn't even run the team, that would be Joe Ellis. And now Elway and Ellis will be in contention for grand poobah. Xanders caters to whomever, the scouting staff doesn't know what the f is going on, Champ, Orton, and I says the same.

This is what concerns me as well. I think Elway will actually bring a little stability to the team. But, it does worry me that he already has a little man-crush on Luck.

Another thing to keep an eye on. The Cam Newton hype machine is going to really get going over the next few months. If Newton can create enough hype there could be a few teams that rate him higher than Luck. That opens the doors for trades or the possibility that Luck is actually available at 2.

IMO, if we draft a QB in the first (or 2nd or 3rd) we are a franchise that does not deserve success. We have known for the last 10 years that DL is the issue. I can remember Med talking to me about these DLs going way back to when Larry Coyer first started in Denver. He had nothing to work with then and we're not in much better shape now.

PLEASE ADDRESS THE DEFENSE IN THIS DRAFT!!!!!!!

Broncoman13
01-03-2011, 05:26 AM
So where is the Pat's Raiders first round pick?

I could see a deal with the Pats, our #2 for the Pats two firsts and one of their 2nd or a 3rd and a 4th. I could see the Pats being very interested in a couple different guys in the early part of this draft. Bowers as they have a poor pass rush. Peterson to play opposite of probowler McCourtney. Or, a phenomenal WR like AJ Green. Of course they are really going to have to "fall in love" with a prospect to give up that much value. But it makes sense for a team like the Pats to target a true stud. Most of their pieces are in place.

I am just hoping for a way to take us OUT of the Luck sweepstakes. Not that I don't think he is a great QB, just think our focus should be elsewhere.

Luck has been on top of many draft charts for a reason though. Like Manning, they have been talking about what a prospect he will be for a couple of years and he continues to back it up with solid play. Unlike guys like Locker or even Snead, who was once projected to be a top pick as well... His play has improved.

Cito Pelon
01-03-2011, 05:43 AM
Joe Ellis looked like he was eating glass when he "welcomed" John Elway to "the Bronco family". Joe Ellis thinks he is the appointed caretaker that has a place in the will.

Cito Pelon
01-03-2011, 05:50 AM
Joe Ellis is a rotten apple, it wasn't clear to me before but it is now. The sooner he's gone, the better.

Cito Pelon
01-03-2011, 06:16 AM
Joe Ellis is gonna be on the 87.7 sometime before 0900. They said there will be press conference Wednesday to introduce Elway.

BroncoInferno
01-03-2011, 06:27 AM
So where is the Pat's Raiders first round pick?

I could see a deal with the Pats, our #2 for the Pats two firsts and one of their 2nd or a 3rd and a 4th. I could see the Pats being very interested in a couple different guys in the early part of this draft. Bowers as they have a poor pass rush. Peterson to play opposite of probowler McCourtney. Or, a phenomenal WR like AJ Green. Of course they are really going to have to "fall in love" with a prospect to give up that much value. But it makes sense for a team like the Pats to target a true stud. Most of their pieces are in place.

I have been thinking of the Pats as a possible trade partner as well. They have a ton of picks - two in each of the first 4 rounds! - and not a lot of needs. Their pick from the Raiders would be #17, so they'd have to pay a hefty sum to move up into our slot. Still, they could put together a nice package to move up into the two spot and still have a nice compliment of picks leftover.

Broncoman13
01-03-2011, 07:31 AM
I have been thinking of the Pats as a possible trade partner as well. They have a ton of picks - two in each of the first 4 rounds! - and not a lot of needs. Their pick from the Raiders would be #17, so they'd have to pay a hefty sum to move up into our slot. Still, they could put together a nice package to move up into the two spot and still have a nice compliment of picks leftover.

Thats what I am thinking as well. For them to get the #2 it would probably cost the following:

#1- (17 from Oakland)
#1- (30-32 own pick)
#2- (33 from Carolina)
#2 OR #3 and #4 - (62-64 own pick in the 2nd OR 3rd #74 and 4th #118)

Seems like a pretty incredible haul... but by draft value chart, the Pats still come up ahead by over 200 points (the equivalent of a 3rd round pick!).

The Pats would have #2 overall, #62-64 (2nd round) or two 3rds and a 4th.


The Broncos would have:
17
30-32
33
36
46
62-64*
67
or

74**
116-118**

* NE's own 2nd rounder
or
** NE's 3rd from Minny (Randy Moss)
** NE's own 4th rounder

For shiats and giggles, here is a recent Mock with these picks:

17 Janoris Jenkins, CB, Florida
30-32 Justin Houston, DE/OLB, Georgia
33 Stefen Wisniewski, C/G, Penn State
36 Rahim Moore, FS, UCLA
46 Rodney Hudson, G, Florida State
62-64* Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina
67 Jerrell Powe, NT, Ole Miss

74** Quinton Carter, S, Oklahoma
126-128** Delone Carter, RB, Syracuse

This does not factor our needs or anything like that... just an idea of some players that are projected to go around those spots.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-03-2011, 07:37 AM
Thats what I am thinking as well. For them to get the #2 it would probably cost the following:

#1- (17 from Oakland)
#1- (30-32 own pick)
#2- (33 from Carolina)
#2 OR #3 and #4 - (62-64 own pick in the 2nd OR 3rd #74 and 4th #118)

Seems like a pretty incredible haul... but by draft value chart, the Pats still come up ahead by over 200 points (the equivalent of a 3rd round pick!).

The Pats would have #2 overall, #62-64 (2nd round) or two 3rds and a 4th.


The Broncos would have:
17
30-32
33
36
46
62-64*
67
or

74**
116-118**

* NE's own 2nd rounder
or
** NE's 3rd from Minny (Randy Moss)
** NE's own 4th rounder

For shiats and giggles, here is a recent Mock with these picks:

17 Janoris Jenkins, CB, Florida
30-32 Justin Houston, DE/OLB, Georgia
33 Stefen Wisniewski, C/G, Penn State
36 Rahim Moore, FS, UCLA
46 Rodney Hudson, G, Florida State
62-64* Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina
67 Jerrell Powe, NT, Ole Miss

74** Quinton Carter, S, Oklahoma
126-128** Delone Carter, RB, Syracuse

This does not factor our needs or anything like that... just an idea of some players that are projected to go around those spots.

That would be one hell of a haul. However, I dont see NE as the type of team to move up #2. Their draft cupboard looks like it normally does a this time of the year.

baja
01-03-2011, 07:44 AM
Some thoughts on a good post from Alex as usual.

1. I think we could score more than 21-24 points per game with Tebow for the following reasons: 1) There is usually a pretty big jump in QB play from Year 1 to Year 2 and with Tim's work ethic, the leap might be even bigger than expected, 2) an offense centered around Tebow's strengths is an offense difficult to defend and gameplan against...screens, bootlegs, Gun option principles and NFL spread principles, it won't be your typical bland NFL offense that a scout team could easily replicate, 3) our red zone percentage with a raw Tebow was significantly higher than normal...this has been our problem forever, if we could bump up our RZ TD% to say 70% from 55%, that's probably worth a few points per game, and probably 2 wins a year. IMO, we could average 24-26 a game with a more experienced Tebow.

2. I have also noticed that Royal has been kind of phased out, especially the last few games. He was strong early in the season, but its been kind of like 2009 for him recently. I'm almost totally sure it is system specific. We KNOW Royal can play. I feel bad for him and I dont want him to go. I'd like to see the new staff use him more. He's very dangerous. McD did not do a very good job getting the most out of this very skilled asset. IMO, whoever comes in has to probably be committed to a wide open spread offense, if for no other reason than WR is an area of GREAT strength: Lloyd, Thomas, Decker, Royal, Gaff. Gaff may fall off out of the system, but the other four are big threats. I expect huge things from D. Thomas next season.

<b>3. I would not part with #2 overall, a 2nd rounder and a decent player for Luck. IMO, the best option is to stick with Tim and move down at least once and preferably twice in Round 1. I want a MINIMUM of six picks in the first three rounds, and preferably seven.

I agree with this. This team needs a major talent infusion and letting go of the 2nd over all for picks assuming they make good picks. Trick will be finding some team that wants the second pick bad enough to pay well for it.

Old Dude
01-03-2011, 07:57 AM
I doubt that Belichick is going to trade away a boodle of draft picks for one or two guys. That's not how he plays it. Chances are that he'll move around here and there to target guys he wants while finding a way to roll excess picks over to next year.

baja
01-03-2011, 08:03 AM
I doubt that Belichick is going to trade away a boodle of draft picks for one or two guys. That's not how he plays it. Chances are that he'll move around here and there to target guys he wants while finding a way to roll excess picks over to next year.

Although it's getting about time to think about grooming Brady's replacement

Crushaholic
01-03-2011, 08:07 AM
Although it's getting about time to think about grooming Brady's replacement

Yeah, I don't think Hoyer is going to be the guy. I'm actually glad that the Patriots handled their business early, just so I could see who IS Brady's backup. I had forgotten...ROFL!

Rascal
01-03-2011, 08:11 AM
I've about had enough of Royal. He is disinterested and going through the motions. We should have gotten a penalty for illegal motion on the TD drive. Tebow was trying to get everybody to line up to hike the ball and everybody was set while Royal was wondering around and was still moving forward to his position when the ball was hiked.

Dedhed
01-03-2011, 08:22 AM
Thats what I am thinking as well. For them to get the #2 it would probably cost the following:

#1- (17 from Oakland)
#1- (30-32 own pick)
#2- (33 from Carolina)
#2 OR #3 and #4 - (62-64 own pick in the 2nd OR 3rd #74 and 4th #118)


What, in the Patriots MO, would make anyone think they would give up 4 picks to get 1?

Steve Sewell
01-03-2011, 08:37 AM
What, in the Patriots MO, would make anyone think they would give up 4 picks to get 1?

Yeah its not going to happen.

The Patriots are smart and build depth through young talent in the draft. They won't "sell out" their strong position for one player, and to think otherwise is absurd.

Dedhed
01-03-2011, 08:43 AM
Yeah its not going to happen.

The Patriots are smart and build depth through young talent in the draft. They won't "sell out" their strong position for one player, and to think otherwise is absurd.

It's more likely we could get Brady from them than some of the stuff proposed here.

Smelvin
01-03-2011, 08:45 AM
What we need to happen is Cam Newton go gang busters in the title game, and create a bidding war for his services. There are a bunch of QB starved teams behind us, so the #2 spot is ideal if you love Cam and really need a QB. The Niners, AZ, Cinci, Wash and maybe Buff are all legit candidates to move up to #2 for a QB, and all reside in the top 10 so the jump isn't too big.

footstepsfrom#27
01-03-2011, 08:53 AM
I agree with this. This team needs a major talent infusion and letting go of the 2nd over all for picks assuming they make good picks. Trick will be finding some team that wants the second pick bad enough to pay well for it.
No to assuming this FO knows how to use their draft picks until we know who is running this ship of fools both in the GM role or whatever they'll call it, and who is adding input as the coach. In the meantime, give me a the best player in the draft with elite talent who can fill a position of need with the closest thing to superstar talent this team has seen since Elway. We still have the ability to draft an entire defensive line in this draft...there is no reason to trade a shot at having a building block we can form an elite defense around. This guy instantly becomes the biggest CB in the league, and has the speed to run stride for stride with anyone, the instincts to challenge backs in the backfield and take down open field running backs and receivers like a player 30 pounds smaller is expected to do. Petersen is the krytonite every big NFL receiver would have to deal with...a guy as big, strong and probably faster than they are. It would suck if they piss this away for a couple mid round picks that turn into just another body type guys.

baja
01-03-2011, 08:53 AM
What we need to happen is Cam Newton go gang busters in the title game, and create a bidding war for his services. There are a bunch of QB starved teams behind us, so the #2 spot is ideal if you love Cam and really need a QB. The Niners, AZ, Cinci, Wash and maybe Buff are all legit candidates to move up to #2 for a QB, and all reside in the top 10 so the jump isn't too big.

Given this is the wish & pray time of year this is what I am wishing & praying for.

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2011, 08:58 AM
The only reason I can think of as to why the Pats might break from their usual MO this year is because over half their roster consists of guys that have been in the league for 3 years or less. They are VERY young and the last thing they really need is another 10 draft picks. They just don't have the room for them, given the current roster limitations and the quality of their current starters. I'm sure they'll trade a 3rd this year for a 2nd next year and/or a 4th this year for a 3rd next year.....their usual method. But I can't imagine they'd be completely against moving up this year if they have a certain player targeted. All the way up to #2 though? Extremely unlikely. A third team would probably have to get involved.....

SoDak Bronco
01-03-2011, 09:10 AM
What happens if Luck stays at Stanford and Peterson is taken at #1

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2011, 09:12 AM
What happens if Luck stays at Stanford and Peterson is taken at #1

The integrity of the new Mane server will be tested like never before.

PRBronco
01-03-2011, 09:12 AM
What happens if Luck stays at Stanford and Peterson is taken at #1

Then we "settle" for a blue chip D lineman. Eventually we'll learn to cope with it :)

bendog
01-03-2011, 09:18 AM
There isn't a true blue chip dlineman in the draft. Not a Mario Williams or Suh

Broncoman13
01-03-2011, 09:39 AM
There isn't a true blue chip dlineman in the draft. Not a Mario Williams or Suh

Da'Quan Bowers is considered Blue Chip by a lot of the so-called experts.

I thought of him as more of a Robert Ayers type, but Montrose thinks a lot more of him than that. It will be interesting to see how he works out and what he runs. If he gets in the 4.6s like some project, then you're looking at a Demarcus Ware type... definitely blue chip.

HEAV
01-03-2011, 09:40 AM
What happens if Luck stays at Stanford and Peterson is taken at #1

It would be the first time in the "modern era" of the draft that a CB was taken #1 overall.

Broncoman13
01-03-2011, 09:43 AM
I doubt that Belichick is going to trade away a boodle of draft picks for one or two guys. That's not how he plays it. Chances are that he'll move around here and there to target guys he wants while finding a way to roll excess picks over to next year.


He'll move up for a player that he really covets. But to give up that much doesn't seem like a BB move... I agree.

The only thing that goes against that is if you have a team that you believe is one or two players away from being "complete" then you make that move. They are a pass rusher shy of being a very good defense. My personal opinion is they would be better off drafting a Von Miller/Robert Quinn type with their Raider's first rounder and then a Watts/Heyward type with their own first rounder. But neither would bring to the table what a Patrick Peterson or Da'Quan Bowers type could bring.

Broncoman13
01-03-2011, 09:45 AM
What happens if Luck stays at Stanford and Peterson is taken at #1

I smile b/c we'd be going defense!!!

Broncoman13
01-03-2011, 09:52 AM
What, in the Patriots MO, would make anyone think they would give up 4 picks to get 1?

There is absolutely nothing in their MO that would make me think they would give up that much to get one pick. But I think with the number of draft picks they have, they will be making moves. I doubt they would give up that much for a player, they would much rather give up those picks for higher picks in the 2012 draft. But, they do have the ammunition to move up if there is a player they "love".

More likely, they would package their first and second (17 and 33) picks to move up around #8 to get a guy that falls like Dareus, Fairley, Green or Julio Jones.

broncocalijohn
01-03-2011, 11:23 AM
I have been thinking of the Pats as a possible trade partner as well. They have a ton of picks - two in each of the first 4 rounds! - and not a lot of needs. Their pick from the Raiders would be #17, so they'd have to pay a hefty sum to move up into our slot. Still, they could put together a nice package to move up into the two spot and still have a nice compliment of picks leftover.

I also was thinking this as it is the only team i knew off the top of the noggin that had two first rounders. Problem here is we would be picking #17 and possibly last in the first round as Pats can win the Championship this season. If we moved down that far, we better be getting a young veteran from the Patriots to make it worth it. Pats are stingy with the cash flow and probably wouldnt want the #2 pick as it might cost more than the 2 first round picks (this is my guess, have no stats to back what normal pay gets for diff. first rounders). I dont mind getting actual bodies from a draft trade that is a starter right off the back.

Broncoman13
01-03-2011, 11:56 AM
I also was thinking this as it is the only team i knew off the top of the noggin that had two first rounders. Problem here is we would be picking #17 and possibly last in the first round as Pats can win the Championship this season. If we moved down that far, we better be getting a young veteran from the Patriots to make it worth it. Pats are stingy with the cash flow and probably wouldnt want the #2 pick as it might cost more than the 2 first round picks (this is my guess, have no stats to back what normal pay gets for diff. first rounders). I dont mind getting actual bodies from a draft trade that is a starter right off the back.

Generally the $ paid to the #2 pick is a heck of a lot higher than what the 17th and 30-32 picks get. Probably around $50m w/$20m guaranteed to $35m and $15m Guaranteed. But this year could and will likely be different b/c of a rookie pay scale. Our luck will be that they institute it for all rookies other than the top 3 picks... that is about how this season has gone, lol.

colonelbeef
01-03-2011, 02:45 PM
trade down any way necessary.

This team doesnt need a diva, it needs multiple good picks to plug the multiple holes the defense has.

Rohirrim
01-03-2011, 02:47 PM
ESPN reported that there may be contractual hang ups with Harbaugh going to Michigan. And reportedly, he doesn't want to go to SF. So... ?

ayjackson
01-03-2011, 02:48 PM
Does whether the draft have a pay scale this year or not depend on whether there's a CBA in place by a certain date? Has that date been speculated?

chawknz
01-03-2011, 02:48 PM
trade down any way necessary.

This team doesnt need a diva, it needs multiple good picks to plug the multiple holes the defense has.

Pretty much this.

ayjackson
01-03-2011, 02:48 PM
ESPN reported that there may be contractual hang ups with Harbaugh going to Michigan. And reportedly, he doesn't want to go to SF. So... ?

Saskatchewan?

Chris
01-03-2011, 02:50 PM
ESPN reported that there may be contractual hang ups with Harbaugh going to Michigan. And reportedly, he doesn't want to go to SF. So... ?

I am hoping Elway pulls off his first coup with this.

Rohirrim
01-03-2011, 02:56 PM
I am hoping Elway pulls off his first coup with this.

Yeah, I'm all for it. Harbaugh is an intense, passionate football coach who loves the game. He'd bring some fire into Denver.

elsid13
01-03-2011, 03:18 PM
What we need to happen is Cam Newton go gang busters in the title game, and create a bidding war for his services. There are a bunch of QB starved teams behind us, so the #2 spot is ideal if you love Cam and really need a QB. The Niners, AZ, Cinci, Wash and maybe Buff are all legit candidates to move up to #2 for a QB, and all reside in the top 10 so the jump isn't too big.

One game is not going to rocket Newton up the draft boards.

Inkana7
01-03-2011, 03:22 PM
One game is not going to rocket Newton up the draft boards.

http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork/rcs_sidelines/young_vince_rose_bowl.jpg

Jekyll15Hyde
01-03-2011, 03:25 PM
http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork/rcs_sidelines/young_vince_rose_bowl.jpg

nice

bendog
01-03-2011, 03:30 PM
I don't get the trade down thing. After the Lambchop trade and the 09 draft, this team will not be good for years. It's not like Rapesburger in Pitt. Tebow is going to be forced to take chances early in his career, and much of the time it won't be good. take the BPA because we'll be drafting in the top 15 next year.

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
01-03-2011, 03:36 PM
I am hoping Elway pulls off his first coup with this.

A lot of similarities to January of 1995. Pat Bowlen went incognito inside the 49ers team hotel in South Florida and knocked on Shanahan's hotel room door following San Francisco's Super Bowl XXIX victory over San Diego.

Smelvin
01-03-2011, 03:42 PM
One game is not going to rocket Newton up the draft boards.

There was also this thing called the college football season, where he performed pretty well week in and week out.

But everyone is watching this game...and lighting up the biggest stage goes a long way.

I'm not saying he *should" elevate this high, but I think there's a chance. And if he does, it benefits us.

ayjackson
01-03-2011, 04:02 PM
I don't get the trade down thing. After the Lambchop trade and the 09 draft, this team will not be good for years. It's not like Rapesburger in Pitt. Tebow is going to be forced to take chances early in his career, and much of the time it won't be good. take the BPA because we'll be drafting in the top 15 next year.

If we're smart about trading down, we could draft twice in the top 15 next year. We need to accumulate picks. Too many lean years of drafting under Shanny and Numbnuts have left the team barren of talent. Two stars will go farther than one superstar on this defence, imho.

PRBronco
01-03-2011, 04:04 PM
If we're smart about trading down, we could draft twice in the top 15 next year. We need to accumulate picks. Too many lean years of drafting under Shanny and Numbnuts have left the team barren of talent. Two stars will go farther than one superstar on this defence, imho.

Oh sweet Jesus >< Too lazy to look up a picture. Picture a Picard facepalm.

BroncoInferno
01-03-2011, 04:06 PM
I doubt that Belichick is going to trade away a boodle of draft picks for one or two guys. That's not how he plays it. Chances are that he'll move around here and there to target guys he wants while finding a way to roll excess picks over to next year.

Normally I would agree, but, as I said, they have two picks in each of the first 4 rounds! There won't be enough roster spots for all of those guys to make a Super Bowl quality team. The Pats could still use some help on D. Their pass rush isn't great, and they could use some secondary help. I could see Belichek putting a package together to try and land Peterson or Bowers. Even as expensive as it would be to move from #17 to #2, they would still probably have a decent amount of picks left over given the ungodly amount they are currently sitting on.

Karenin
01-03-2011, 04:10 PM
Normally I would agree, but, as I said, they have two picks in each of the first 4 rounds! There won't be enough roster spots for all of those guys to make a Super Bowl quality team. The Pats could still use some help on D. Their pass rush isn't great, and they could use some secondary help. I could see Belichek putting a package together to try and land Peterson or Bowers. Even as expensive as it would be to move from #17 to #2, they would still probably have a decent amount of picks left over given the ungodly amount they are currently sitting on.

Why? Name one other time Belichek has done anything like that before.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 04:12 PM
Why? Name one other time Belichek has done anything like that before.

Yeah that made me scratch my head as well. That isn't going to happen.

BroncoInferno
01-03-2011, 04:22 PM
Why? Name one other time Belichek has done anything like that before.

Belichek has never amassed this many picks before. 8 in the first 4 rounds. There aren't enough roster spots for that many guys on the Patriots. Also, just because he has not done before doesn't mean anything. He's never been in position to move that far up without gutting his entire draft. He's got three of the top 33 picks. I know he stockpiles picks in every draft, but never to this level. He could get up to #2 and still have a pick in every round.

Karenin
01-03-2011, 05:17 PM
Right. Just because he has a lot of picks doesn't mean he's going to use them to trade up. It's not going to happen, give it up.

footstepsfrom#27
01-03-2011, 05:24 PM
Belichek has never amassed this many picks before. 8 in the first 4 rounds. There aren't enough roster spots for that many guys on the Patriots. Also, just because he has not done before doesn't mean anything. He's never been in position to move that far up without gutting his entire draft. He's got three of the top 33 picks. I know he stockpiles picks in every draft, but never to this level. He could get up to #2 and still have a pick in every round.
No way should we even consider trading that pick to Belicheat. Nothing good can come from trading with him.

Agamemnon
01-03-2011, 05:47 PM
Belichek has never amassed this many picks before. 8 in the first 4 rounds. There aren't enough roster spots for that many guys on the Patriots. Also, just because he has not done before doesn't mean anything. He's never been in position to move that far up without gutting his entire draft. He's got three of the top 33 picks. I know he stockpiles picks in every draft, but never to this level. He could get up to #2 and still have a pick in every round.

He may move up a little bit here or there, but he I seriously doubt he's going to try and get a top pick. Especially not the #2 pick. That is very unlikely.

baja
01-03-2011, 05:50 PM
Yeah, I'm all for it. Harbaugh is an intense, passionate football coach who loves the game. He'd bring some fire into Denver.


LOL

You're so clever...

Circle Orange
01-03-2011, 06:09 PM
I'm not saying John is going to light it up right away. However, whoever that "AFC Executive" clown is who thinks the selection funny should be careful what he asks for. We'll see who laughs last. Reminds me of when Irsay Junior was quoted as saying John wouldn't be any good. :clown:

Meanwhile, the Duke needs to pick up harbaugh at the orange bowl and bring him back. At gunpoint, if necessary. ;D

DENVERDUI55
02-12-2014, 07:50 PM
Good reread worth a bump.

Enter The Dragon
02-12-2014, 07:58 PM
I effing wish.

extralife
02-12-2014, 09:06 PM
so do we have two titles if Harbaugh is our coach?

or does manning pass on the Broncos?

because it's probably one or the other