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View Full Version : Orton or Tebow Who Had it Harder in 2010


TheReverend
12-30-2010, 02:39 PM
I'm only asking because I can't believe anyone wouldn't see this clearly as one sided. So poll pending. Anyways...

Which QB was placed in a more difficult situation this season:

Tim Tebow-
No actual headcoach,
McCoy calling his plays and designing the game plan
His rookie year as a "project" QB
Knowshon injured both his games
First game was on the road in one of the most hostile environments in pro sports against one of the NFLs top defenses
The entire sports media analyzing every millimeter of your throwing motion and many believing you're an H Back, TE, FB at the NFL level

Or

Kyle Orton-
Being a veteran in your second year in the system
Josh McDaniels calling your plays and designing your gameplan
Fan pressure and a 1st round quarterback behind you on the depth chart

OABB
12-30-2010, 02:39 PM
The fans who had to watch Orton.

lostknight
12-30-2010, 02:44 PM
No actual headcoach,
McCoy calling his plays and designing the game plan
His rookie year as a "project" QB
Knowshon injured both his games
First game was on the road in one of the most hostile environments in pro sports against one of the NFLs top defenses
The entire sports media analyzing every millimeter of your throwing motion and many believing you're an H Back, TE, FB at the NFL level

Fans that have insanely elevated expectations
A fragmented locker room

Kyle Orton
Being a veteran in your second year in the system
Josh McDaniels calling your plays and designing your gameplan
Fan pressure and a 1st round quarterback behind you on the depth chart

fans still pissed about the Cutler trade
Identified with a highly disliked head coach
Injuries

frerottenextelway
12-30-2010, 02:46 PM
Well, Orton had to follow Cutler while Tebow had to follow Orton.

But I think I agree with orangeandblue above for the real answer.

Jay3
12-30-2010, 02:50 PM
Tebow had it harder.

Orton had everything served up to him on a silver platter and shat the bed.

Even the lack of run game was an opportunity to rack up stats. If he had been more clutch, people wouldn't have blamed him for losing shootouts, 38-31.

Drek
12-30-2010, 03:13 PM
Tebow. He sat the bench for our sins.

In all seriousness though:
Tebow's first start was against one of the best defenses we have faced all year.

Orton "lived up" all four of our games against the NFC West, easily the worst division in football (against whom he was 1-3).

Orton actually has had a healthy Knowshon Moreno for the majority of his starts this year.

Tebow is working with a bunch of veteran players and a coaching staff that know the end is near. Orton was playing with these same guys when they still had hope.

The single biggest positive in coaching, McDaniels' game planning, has done Tebow absolutely no good. The one time Orton didn't have it we lost to the Cardinals in a landslide drubbing.

Tebow is a marked man in the NFL. Ray Lewis has commented about wanting to take shots at him. All the vets want to hit the rook with the top selling jersey.

Tebow's first start was basically a game time decision and he's only had two weeks of first team practice reps. Orton had all pre-season and almost all the first team reps up until he went down.

Orton's backup was a current year rookie who supposedly needed several years to develop. Tebow's backup is a former 1st rounder who has started over a dozen games.

I could go on, but I think the point is pretty clear. Its also painfully obvious. Rookies have it harder. QBs thrust into the spotlight mid-season have it harder. Guys who face stronger teams have it harder. Therefore Tebow has had it harder. Plain and simple.

If the rest of the team wasn't in such complete disarray or even if McCoy would have taken the handcuffs off at some point Tebow would have carried us to a win over the Raiders in Oakland. With Orton they shoved it up our pooper at home.

TheReverend
12-30-2010, 03:25 PM
Tebow. He sat the bench for our sins.

In all seriousness though:
Tebow's first start was against one of the best defenses we have faced all year.

Orton "lived up" all four of our games against the NFC West, easily the worst division in football (against whom he was 1-3).

Orton actually has had a healthy Knowshon Moreno for the majority of his starts this year.

Tebow is working with a bunch of veteran players and a coaching staff that know the end is near. Orton was playing with these same guys when they still had hope.

The single biggest positive in coaching, McDaniels' game planning, has done Tebow absolutely no good. The one time Orton didn't have it we lost to the Cardinals in a landslide drubbing.

Tebow is a marked man in the NFL. Ray Lewis has commented about wanting to take shots at him. All the vets want to hit the rook with the top selling jersey.

Tebow's first start was basically a game time decision and he's only had two weeks of first team practice reps. Orton had all pre-season and almost all the first team reps up until he went down.

Orton's backup was a current year rookie who supposedly needed several years to develop. Tebow's backup is a former 1st rounder who has started over a dozen games.

I could go on, but I think the point is pretty clear. Its also painfully obvious. Rookies have it harder. QBs thrust into the spotlight mid-season have it harder. Guys who face stronger teams have it harder. Therefore Tebow has had it harder. Plain and simple.

If the rest of the team wasn't in such complete disarray or even if McCoy would have taken the handcuffs off at some point Tebow would have carried us to a win over the Raiders in Oakland. With Orton they shoved it up our pooper at home.

Color me impressed with your vision in this situation, at least.

Hamrob
12-30-2010, 03:28 PM
I'd have to say Orton. He is an o.k. QB...but, he's not an elite QB. Fans and expectations in Denver of our QB are high! He had pretty good numbers, but couldn'd carry the team and had to have felt immense pressure. Then, after losing a 10-6 game in KC...where he played his absolute worst all season...his coach gets canned. He must have felt somewhat responsible for McD getting the axe. Then he had to start thinking about himself and asking himself...what does this mean for me. The answer of course is/was...his days are numbered. So, then he goes to AZ with all that on his mind...and lays another egg. Then his season is over and he is told that Tebow will be starting the rest of the season.

Yeah, Orton definitely had it harder (IMO).

Tebow really didn't have alot of pressure put on him. The critics thought that he was a project and that it would be 2-3yrs before he saw the field anyway. All Tebow had to do was sit back and work hard, learn and be ready. Then his oppurtunity came and he took the bull by the horns.

SoCalBronco
12-30-2010, 03:29 PM
Tebow.

Last year Orton obtained long term benefits from being on the same roster as Hillis and gained inspiration and long lasting adrenaline from that. Tebow was not afforded a similar luxury.

oubronco
12-30-2010, 03:30 PM
Orton had to play with Mcdipshyt calling the plays

bowtown
12-30-2010, 03:31 PM
It's tough for any Bronco QB not named Elway.

OABB
12-30-2010, 03:34 PM
Orton had it harder because he has less talent than Tebow, Thats like saying who was the better leading lady in the batman movies, the hot assed ms. cruise or the melty faced gylennhol(sp?)

OrangeSe7en
12-30-2010, 03:34 PM
I'd have to say Orton. He is an o.k. QB...but, he's not an elite QB. Fans and expectations in Denver of our QB are high! He had pretty good numbers, but couldn'd carry the team and had to have felt immense pressure. Then, after losing a 10-6 game in KC...where he played his absolute worst all season...his coach gets canned. He must have felt somewhat responsible for McD getting the axe. Then he had to start thinking about himself and asking himself...what does this mean for me. The answer of course is/was...his days are numbered. So, then he goes to AZ with all that on his mind...and lays another egg. Then his season is over and he is told that Tebow will be starting the rest of the season.

Yeah, Orton definitely had it harder (IMO).

Tebow really didn't have alot of pressure put on him. The critics thought that he was a project and that it would be 2-3yrs before he saw the field anyway. All Tebow had to do was sit back and work hard, learn and be ready. Then his oppurtunity came and he took the bull by the horns.

This is completely untrue. By the time Orton was done not performing, the fan base was teetering on the verge of absolute apathy. Tebow had enormous pressure. If he would have failed, that would have been just one more reason for the fans to turn their backs on the team and the season. Not only that, but Tebow was auditioning to remain a Bronco as a rookie in his first three games and the possibility of drafting Andrew Luck looming. This season has been a runaway train of negativity with enormous momentum behind it. Tebow has almost been able to turn that around both in terms of results on the field and also in terms of fan morale.

In fact, Tebow has probably been up against it more than any Denver rookie in recent memory.

Drek
12-30-2010, 03:36 PM
Tebow.

Last year Orton obtained long term benefits from being on the same roster as Hillis and gained inspiration and long lasting adrenaline from that. Tebow was not afforded a similar luxury.

I call bull**** on this one. Everyone knows Hillis got all his power from playing within the same athletic conference as Tebow.

Color me impressed with your vision in this situation, at least.

You can take solace in the fact that it really is a painfully obvious choice.

SoCalBronco
12-30-2010, 03:44 PM
I call bull**** on this one. Everyone knows Hillis got all his power from playing within the same athletic conference as Tebow.




It's hard not to wonder what it would have been like with BOTH of them on this team. That much power might have compelled the other 31 teams to file an anti-trust suit against Denver due to the inherent unfairness of playing against Tebow and Hillis and the monopoly Denver would have had over things like wins. On the other hand, that much concentrated power would have been dangerous. For one thing, even Taco's vaunted cloud server might not survive both of them, it would be simply too much....kind of like crossing the streams, except worse.

mkporter
12-30-2010, 03:47 PM
Orton had it harder because he has less talent than Tebow, Thats like saying who was the better leading lady in the batman movies, the hot assed ms. cruise or the melty faced gylennhol(sp?)

Well, if you are using talent as your analogy you have it exactly backwards. I would watch Maggie Gyllenhaal in any role in any movie over Katie Holmes. And she's not bad to look at either (did you see Secretary?)

27808

BroncoInferno
12-30-2010, 03:53 PM
You can take solace in the fact that it really is a painfully obvious choice.

Disagree. Tebow had greatly muted expectations in place when he became the starter. Read the posts prior to his first start for proof. No one expected him to win or even play great, they just hoped he wouldn't be a complete flop and give us hope for the future. Then look at the euphoria after the Oakland game. We had a season low in yardage and first downs, Tebow had two completions downfield and two good runs, and the fan base was largely in ecstasy. Anyone who wasn't quite convinced was attacked. In the meantime, Orton could throw 300 yards and 3 TDs and no turnovers with no running game and a heinous defense, but people would heap the blame on him. There were people ready to run Orton out of town from day one and who never gave him a fair shake. Even those who didn't like the Tebow selection were willing to take a wait and see approach with him (TailgateNut is the only counter-example on the board i can think of).

OABB
12-30-2010, 03:53 PM
Well, if you are using talent as your analogy you have it exactly backwards. I would watch Maggie Gyllenhaal in any role in any movie over Katie Holmes. And she's not bad to look at either (did you see Secretary?)

27808

rent "The Gift" and get back to me.

OrangeSe7en
12-30-2010, 03:55 PM
Disagree. Tebow had greatly muted expectations in place when he became the starter. Read the posts prior to his first start for proof. No one expected him to win or even play great, they just hoped he wouldn't be a complete flop and give us hope for the future. Then look at the euphoria after the Oakland game. We had a season low in yardage and first downs, Tebow had two completions downfield and two good runs, and the fan base was largely in ecstasy. Anyone who wasn't quite convinced was attacked. In the meantime, Orton could throw 300 yards and 3 TDs and no turnovers with no running game and a heinous defense, but people would heap the blame on him. There were people ready to run Orton out of town from day one and who never gave him a fair shake. Even those who didn't like the Tebow selection were willing to take a wait and see approach with him (TailgateNut is the only counter-example on the board i can think of).

A lot of Ortons yards were meaningless. They came in garbage time.

BroncoInferno
12-30-2010, 04:08 PM
A lot of Ortons yards were meaningless. They came in garbage time.

Most of Orton's best stats came in games in which we had a reasonable chance to win (Indy game, St.Louis as two examples). Look at the blowout losses....Orton's stats were terrible (Oakland, Baltimore as two examples).

OrangeSe7en
12-30-2010, 04:10 PM
Most of Orton's best stats came in games in which we had a reasonable chance to win (Indy game, St.Louis as two examples). Look at the blowout losses....Orton's stats were terrible (Oakland, Baltimore as two examples).

St Louis is an excellent example of how Orton's stats came in garbage time.

mkporter
12-30-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm only asking because I can't believe anyone wouldn't see this clearly as one sided. So poll pending. Anyways...

Which QB was placed in a more difficult situation this season:

Tim Tebow-
No actual headcoach,
McCoy calling his plays and designing the game plan
His rookie year as a "project" QB
Knowshon injured both his games
First game was on the road in one of the most hostile environments in pro sports against one of the NFLs top defenses
The entire sports media analyzing every millimeter of your throwing motion and many believing you're an H Back, TE, FB at the NFL level

Or

Kyle Orton-
Being a veteran in your second year in the system
Josh McDaniels calling your plays and designing your gameplan
Fan pressure and a 1st round quarterback behind you on the depth chart

You're kind of leading the witness a little much here, counselor. Although I know this comes from trying to win your argument in a previous thread.

I think Tebow has a somewhat more difficult task, although your conclusion should probably be tempered a little bit at this point. Here are some counterpoints:

-Tebow has the advantage that there was very little tape on him as a professional in this offense. Kyle had that advantage for about six games last year.
-Tebow also racked up must of his action against the worst passing defense in the league, and McCoy called a pretty good game this week.
-Orton was clearly hurt the last two games he played. His accuracy was all over the place, and whatever faults he may have (excessive cement foot/fetal position syndrome), his accuracy is usually pretty good.
-Orton had no running game at all and a makeshift oline for about half of the season.


Tebow looks pretty good so far, and he is fun as heck to watch and cheer for. He has only played in two games, though. It is a small sample. A good sample so far, but small none the less. I've seen enough that I think we'd be stupid not to move on with him as our starter next year. I wish Kyle well, thank him for his effort and the draft pick he'll net us when we trade his ass.

TheReverend
12-30-2010, 04:20 PM
Disagree. Tebow had greatly muted expectations in place when he became the starter. Read the posts prior to his first start for proof. No one expected him to win or even play great, they just hoped he wouldn't be a complete flop and give us hope for the future. Then look at the euphoria after the Oakland game. We had a season low in yardage and first downs, Tebow had two completions downfield and two good runs, and the fan base was largely in ecstasy. Anyone who wasn't quite convinced was attacked. In the meantime, Orton could throw 300 yards and 3 TDs and no turnovers with no running game and a heinous defense, but people would heap the blame on him. There were people ready to run Orton out of town from day one and who never gave him a fair shake. Even those who didn't like the Tebow selection were willing to take a wait and see approach with him (TailgateNut is the only counter-example on the board i can think of).

You are ONCE AGAIN missing the discussion (along several other people, who quite frankly aren't that bright).

We're talking about who had it harder, not who had higher fan expectations.

mkporter
12-30-2010, 04:23 PM
rent "The Gift" and get back to me.

I've seen the important part of "The Gift," and it was about 30 seconds of that movie. Nice, but I have been to the internets, so there's plenty of that kind of stuff to look at. Is any of the rest of it worth watching? I do like Sam Raimi movies.

Drek
12-30-2010, 04:57 PM
Disagree. Tebow had greatly muted expectations in place when he became the starter. Read the posts prior to his first start for proof. No one expected him to win or even play great, they just hoped he wouldn't be a complete flop and give us hope for the future. Then look at the euphoria after the Oakland game. We had a season low in yardage and first downs, Tebow had two completions downfield and two good runs, and the fan base was largely in ecstasy. Anyone who wasn't quite convinced was attacked. In the meantime, Orton could throw 300 yards and 3 TDs and no turnovers with no running game and a heinous defense, but people would heap the blame on him. There were people ready to run Orton out of town from day one and who never gave him a fair shake. Even those who didn't like the Tebow selection were willing to take a wait and see approach with him (TailgateNut is the only counter-example on the board i can think of).

Who cares about fan opinion? Dude plays football and on the football field he's had a rougher road to sled than what Orton had. Even harder than what Orton faced to start last season.

OABB
12-30-2010, 05:01 PM
I've seen the important part of "The Gift," and it was about 30 seconds of that movie. Nice, but I have been to the internets, so there's plenty of that kind of stuff to look at. Is any of the rest of it worth watching? I do like Sam Raimi movies.

don't know. boobies erase my memories of things not booby related.

mkporter
12-30-2010, 05:19 PM
booby related.

That's all I was able to get out of your post. Every time I read it, the first part just gets lost somewhere.

bowtown
12-30-2010, 10:48 PM
You are ONCE AGAIN missing the discussion (along several other people, who quite frankly aren't that bright).

We're talking about who had it harder, not who had higher fan expectations.

Don't you think that plays a part in it though?

BroncoInferno
12-30-2010, 11:33 PM
You are ONCE AGAIN missing the discussion (along several other people, who quite frankly aren't that bright).

We're talking about who had it harder, not who had higher fan expectations.

How in the hell do you figure that fan expectations don't play a role in "stacking the deck?" CLEARLY, it is part of the equation.

TheReverend
12-31-2010, 08:01 AM
How in the hell do you figure that fan expectations don't play a role in "stacking the deck?" CLEARLY, it is part of the equation.

Don't you think that plays a part in it though?

I've never argued that it doesn't. However, it sure as **** doesn't hold a candle to interim head coach, McCoy calling plays, rookie season, etc

Not even ****ing close.

BroncoInferno
12-31-2010, 08:37 AM
I've never argued that it doesn't. However, it sure as **** doesn't hold a candle to interim head coach, McCoy calling plays, rookie season, etc

Not even ****ing close.

Wrong. Because having the interim staff in place adds heft to the "he's a rookie" excuse. If he had thrown 3 picks with a few good plays mixed in, most of the fans would have given him a pass and you know it.

OABB
12-31-2010, 08:56 AM
Wrong. Because having the interim staff in place adds heft to the "he's a rookie" excuse. If he had thrown 3 picks with a few good plays mixed in, most of the fans would have given him a pass and you know it.

Bronco fans maybe.... The rest of the country? The media? The haters? He'll no. It would have been the exclamation point on the season and a further embarrassment to us. All hope in Denver would be gone. Orton does not have people that despise him like tebow does. Tebow is hated, absolutely Hated by alot of people that want him to fail. That is pressure. Orton was a throw in on a trade. He had less pressure.

Drek
12-31-2010, 10:10 AM
Wrong. Because having the interim staff in place adds heft to the "he's a rookie" excuse. If he had thrown 3 picks with a few good plays mixed in, most of the fans would have given him a pass and you know it.

Who cares if Bronco fans give him a pass? Tebow's play over the last three games was talked about nation wide as a referendum on if he could even hack it as an NFL QB. If he had failed you'd already have a national media uprising to label him a massive bust and talking about when he should move to H-back.

But despite working with a team that had gone into full "mail it in" mode the previous few weeks, without the team's starting running back, with a staff that knows they likely won't be back next year and is comprised at its highest levels with people obviously over their heads Tebow went out and performed.

If Kyle Orton had a mediocre year everyone says "well, thats Kyle Orton for you. He's ok but nothing special. Just what we've always though". Orton would get a shot somewhere else, at least s the #2 guy, and his career would continue without any significant ripples throughout the league.

If Tebow had looked like dog **** these first few games Broncos fans might forgive but the national media and much of the NFL would use it as chest thumping material to talk about how he's simply not an NFL QB. The end result might well have been him never getting another shot at QB in the NFL.

baja
12-31-2010, 10:12 AM
Bronco fans maybe.... The rest of the country? The media? The haters? He'll no. It would have been the exclamation point on the season and a further embarrassment to us. All hope in Denver would be gone. Orton does not have people that despise him like tebow does. <b> Tebow is hated, absolutely Hated by alot of people that want him to fail. That is pressure. </b> Orton was a throw in on a trade. He had less pressure.

I don't see that what do you base that opinion on?

baja
12-31-2010, 10:28 AM
Who cares if Bronco fans give him a pass? Tebow's play over the last three games was talked about nation wide as a referendum on if he could even hack it as an NFL QB. If he had failed you'd already have a national media uprising to label him a massive bust and talking about when he should move to H-back.

But despite working with a team that had gone into full "mail it in" mode the previous few weeks, without the team's starting running back, with a staff that knows they likely won't be back next year and is comprised at its highest levels with people obviously over their heads Tebow went out and performed.

If Kyle Orton had a mediocre year everyone says "well, thats Kyle Orton for you. He's ok but nothing special. Just what we've always though". Orton would get a shot somewhere else, at least s the #2 guy, and his career would continue without any significant ripples throughout the league.

If Tebow had looked like dog **** these first few games Broncos fans might forgive but the national media and much of the NFL would use it as chest thumping material to talk about how he's simply not an NFL QB. The end result might well have been him never getting another shot at QB in the NFL.

That level of confidence only comes when an individual surrenders outcome to a higher power and shows up and gives his all to the thing he is passionate about. It is in that surrendering and staying focused on doing your best in that moment that is the relief valve to all that would be pressure.

Being in the moment is another way of saying being in the zone.

Tebow's make up allows him to be "In the Zone" on the field.

Tim Tebow gives people reason to believe he will be a very special team leader. Payton Manning with charisma.

Drek
12-31-2010, 10:42 AM
That level of confidence only comes when an individual surrenders outcome to a higher power and shows up and gives his all to the thing he is passionate about. It is in that surrendering and staying focused on doing your best in that moment that is the relief valve to all that would be pressure.

Being in the moment is another way of saying being in the zone.

Tebow's make up allows him to be "In the Zone" on the field.

Tim Tebow gives people reason to believe he will be a very special team leader. Payton Manning with charisma.

Sure, but Tebow's superior ability to handle the pressure over Orton doesn't mean there was less pressure.

Tebow has been a marked man by his peers in the NFL even before he was a peer. It wasn't long after the draft that Ray Lewis, the most recognizable defensive player in football by most accounts, was talking about wanting to take a shot at him. Every defender wants to put a lick on Tebow. Most don't give a **** about Orton.

Every defensive coach wants to embarrass Tebow. They just don't want to get embarrassed by Orton.

Orton is a veteran who has started and won games in the NFL. he receives some level of veteran respect by proxy. Tebow is a rookie. A highly publicized rookie who's jerseys are outselling everyone else's. He receives no kind of instant respect from the veterans he's been asked to lead.

Comparing how stacked the deck is versus Tebow and Orton is a joke. You'd find a better pairing in Tebow's recent road versus Michael Vick, since both's success and failure was a hot button issue on a national stage and amongst their peers. Even other rookies like Sam Bradford, Jimmy Clausen, and Colt McCoy had it far easier than Tebow. They were rookie QBs and while people questioned if they'd be any good no one questioned if it was an outright mistake to even let them try playing the position.

Don't mistake how easily Tebow handles adversity for a lack of adversity.

strafen
12-31-2010, 10:52 AM
I don't see that what do you base that opinion on?

I doubt somebody really has to point that out for you, baja.
Seriously?
Tebow was one of the best college football players of all times.
The guy was thought to be not fit to play QB in the NFL.
He was thought to be drafted in later rounds.
The guy has been scrutinized in a way that the media, the people around the league (GM's) they all agreed Tebow was an NFL project at any other position but QB at best...

And here we are, the guy has played well, and in my opinion for the time being, has surpassed the expectations of many by a landslide.
He has quiet the critics.
You just can't go against what you're actually seeing. it's no longer about what people think Tebow is, it's all about what people are now seeing Tebow can do...

I'm stoked to see Tebow as our QB.

baja
12-31-2010, 10:58 AM
Sure, but Tebow's superior ability to handle the pressure over Orton doesn't mean there was less pressure.

Tebow has been a marked man by his peers in the NFL even before he was a peer. It wasn't long after the draft that Ray Lewis, the most recognizable defensive player in football by most accounts, was talking about wanting to take a shot at him. Every defender wants to put a lick on Tebow. Most don't give a **** about Orton.

Every defensive coach wants to embarrass Tebow. They just don't want to get embarrassed by Orton.

Orton is a veteran who has started and won games in the NFL. he receives some level of veteran respect by proxy. Tebow is a rookie. A highly publicized rookie who's jerseys are outselling everyone else's. He receives no kind of instant respect from the veterans he's been asked to lead.

Comparing how stacked the deck is versus Tebow and Orton is a joke. You'd find a better pairing in Tebow's recent road versus Michael Vick, since both's success and failure was a hot button issue on a national stage and amongst their peers. Even other rookies like Sam Bradford, Jimmy Clausen, and Colt McCoy had it far easier than Tebow. They were rookie QBs and while people questioned if they'd be any good no one questioned if it was an outright mistake to even let them try playing the position.

Don't mistake how easily Tebow handles adversity for a lack of adversity.

You have missed my point.

Tebow has surrendered the outcome (any outcome in life) to his higher power, in his case Jesus the Christ. Yes all the pressure you point out is available for him to indulge but because he has surrendered the outcome to his Savior he is free to be in the moment especially on the football field (it's harder in day to day life). it is his deep commitment to something greater than himself that will set the stage for greatness for Tim Tebow. He surrenders the pressure (future thought) therefore is free to focus on what is in front of him each and every moment. This is a powerful practice.

baja
12-31-2010, 11:01 AM
I doubt somebody really has to point that out for you, baja.
Seriously?
Tebow was one of the best college football players of all times.
The guy was thought to be not fit to play QB in the NFL.
He was thought to be drafted in later rounds.
The guy has been scrutinized in a way that the media, the people around the league (GM's) they all agreed Tebow was an NFL project at any other position but QB at best...

And here we are, the guy has played well, and in my opinion for the time being, has surpassed the expectations of many by a landslide.
He has quiet the critics.
You just can't go against what you're actually seeing. it's no longer about what people think Tebow is, it's all about what people are now seeing Tebow can do...

I'm stoked to see Tebow as our QB.

I was speaking to the line in the post saying Tebow is hated by many bronco fans

Drek
12-31-2010, 11:05 AM
You have missed my point.

Tebow has surrendered the outcome (any outcome in life) to his higher power, in his case Jesus the Christ. Yes all the pressure you point out is available for him to indulge but because he has surrendered the outcome to his Savior he is free to be in the moment especially on the football field (it's harder in day to day life). it is his deep commitment to something greater than himself that will set the stage for greatness for Tim Tebow. He surrenders the pressure therefore is free to focus on what is in front of him each and every moment. This is a powerful practice.

I think you're missing my point, that for the debate we're having in this thread how they deal with pressure is irrelevant.

I can't imagine anyone would say Orton handled the pressure this season better than Tebow. Thats just foolish. For many reasons, one being what you've outlined above, Tebow handles pressure better than almost anyone on the face of the planet.

What we're discussing here is the scale of difficulty each had to overcome this season, not the way in which they did or did not overcome it.

strafen
12-31-2010, 11:06 AM
I was speaking to the line in the post saying Tebow is hated by many bronco fans

He was before he played his first game. I see a few here have now changed their tunes.
I don't think it was hate per-se, I just think it was skepticism that fueled by the media and experts about Tebow.
A lot of people went with what the majority was saying.

OABB
12-31-2010, 11:17 AM
I was speaking to the line in the post saying Tebow is hated by many bronco fans

I never said that. I said hated by alot of people.

baja
12-31-2010, 11:49 AM
I think you're missing my point, that for the debate we're having in this thread how they deal with pressure is irrelevant.

I can't imagine anyone would say Orton handled the pressure this season better than Tebow. Thats just foolish. For many reasons, one being what you've outlined above, Tebow handles pressure better than almost anyone on the face of the planet.

What we're discussing here is the scale of difficulty each had to overcome this season, not the way in which they did or did not overcome it.

I was adding what I think is an important caveat to the discussion as to how Tebow transcends pressure. If Tebow can 'lay off' pressure to a higher power it effectively eliminates the pressure on him. Your perceived pressure on Tebow is non existent to him that is my point.

baja
12-31-2010, 11:53 AM
He was before he played his first game. I see a few here have now changed their tunes.
I don't think it was hate per-se, I just think it was skepticism that fueled by the media and experts about Tebow.
A lot of people went with what the majority was saying.

Well if you are talking skepticism than I agree because that is obvious. I was responding to the use of the word "hate", I don't think people hate Tebow. I thought the poster were saying because of his "Beliefs" he is hated.

baja
12-31-2010, 11:54 AM
I never said that. I said hated by alot of people.

Who hates Tebow and why?

OABB
12-31-2010, 12:09 PM
Who hates Tebow and why?

Are you serious baja?

baja
12-31-2010, 12:54 PM
Are you serious baja?

Yes! I think a lot of people believe his talents will not translate to the NFL but I don't see why people would have cause to hate him. His teammates have loved him where ever he has played. He has been wildly sucessful where ever he has played. He is a likable guy. He is hard working and humble. Why do you say he is hated? What is the reason for that hate?

OABB
12-31-2010, 01:03 PM
Yes! I think a lot of people believe his talents will not translate to the NFL but I don't see why people would have cause to hate him. His teammates have loved him where ever he has played. He has been wildly sucessful where ever he has played. He is a likable guy. He is hard working and humble. Why do you say he is hated? What is the reason for that hate?

i dont know why people hate tebow. ask tailgate nut.

baja
12-31-2010, 01:17 PM
i dont know why people hate tebow. ask tailgate nut.

I think he hated the pick not the person.

OABB
12-31-2010, 01:19 PM
I think he hated the pick not the person.

no he hated him because he was successful in florida. I am so surprised that you dont know tebow has haters.... i mean really. you need to get out of the sun and eat some food.

baja
12-31-2010, 01:27 PM
no he hated him because he was successful in florida. I am so surprised that you dont know tebow has haters.... i mean really. you need to get out of the sun and eat some food.

You are not supporting your claim very well.

Al Wilson
12-31-2010, 01:27 PM
Come on, I can't believe most people think Tebow had it harder...Tebow is playing meaningless games. Orton had all the pressure on him. Brady Quinn was brought in and Tebow was drafted. All of that, and Orton had pressure on him to perform well when the season was actually meaningfull. Now Tebow gets to play in meaningless games. Obviously Orton had it harder.

OABB
12-31-2010, 01:41 PM
You are not supporting your claim very well.

this isn't "my" claim. This is the truth. I'm way too lazy to research quotes on the matter, especially when it is something so well known by everyone in the entire galaxy.

baja
12-31-2010, 01:47 PM
this isn't "my" claim. This is the truth. I'm way too lazy to research quotes on the matter, especially when it is something so well known by everyone in the entire galaxy.

Is this why his jersey is the #1 seller of all the NFL players?

baja
12-31-2010, 01:50 PM
this isn't "my" claim. This is the truth. I'm way too lazy to research quotes on the matter,<b> especially when it is something so well known by everyone in the entire galaxy.

It shouldn't be too hard to name a couple of people that hate Tim Tebow than.

OABB
12-31-2010, 02:14 PM
It shouldn't be too hard to name a couple of people that hate Tim Tebow than.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2489084713&v=wall

this took .000000000001 millaseconds.

OABB
12-31-2010, 02:16 PM
It shouldn't be too hard to name a couple of people that hate Tim Tebow than.

http://tebowhaters.com/

OABB
12-31-2010, 02:17 PM
It shouldn't be too hard to name a couple of people that hate Tim Tebow than.

http://www.gospelaccordingtohate.com/2009/12/jesus-hates-tim-tebow-and-florida.html

OABB
12-31-2010, 02:19 PM
It shouldn't be too hard to name a couple of people that hate Tim Tebow than.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090108205027AAvDg52

OABB
12-31-2010, 02:20 PM
im bored now.... anyone else?

and by the way....I LOVE tebow and I know that he is beloved as well. I never claimed he wasn't loved. I just said that he has a nation of haters(which is true to any hyped superstart like tebow) and that he has pressure to fail. He is not like Orton where most people don't feel one way or another about him was all I was saying.

baja
12-31-2010, 02:33 PM
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090108205027AAvDg52

From your site;

t was clear that a large number of the 63,000 fans had arrived to see Tebow, the son of two evangelical Christian missionaries, take his first steps in the professional game after winning two national titles while playing in university about 70 miles away from Jacksonville. Broncos jerseys with Tebow's name were worn by spectators, including some who confirmed they were not supporters of the Broncos but were just admirers of the rookie quarterback. "I'm a Tebow fan. I like the way he lives. I like his testimony, I like the way he takes care of his business and that he is a humble person," said Jerry Crews from nearby Macclenny. The clean-cut Tebow may have dominated in college football but there have been no shortage of pundits predicting failure for him in the more physically and tactically demanding NFL. "He has tried to change that passing motion, if he changes that well enough to release the ball quicker, he can do pretty good I think, it will take time to adjust but he can do it," said University of Florida fan, Matthew Cameron. "He is great for football, he is a good person and a role model."<< MORE >>

Lots of supporters there..

baja
12-31-2010, 02:35 PM
im bored now.... anyone else?

and by the way....I LOVE tebow and I know that he is beloved as well. I never claimed he wasn't loved. I just said that he has a nation of haters(which is true to any hyped superstart like tebow) and that he has pressure to fail. He is not like Orton where most people don't feel one way or another about him was all I was saying.

It looks like mot of the "haters" are supporters of rival schools that got beat up by him. You were saying a lot of NFL players hated TT.

baja
12-31-2010, 02:41 PM
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090108205027AAvDg52

Over half of the posts on this site support TT.

I think most of the dislike about TT stems from what this poster points out;

I don't hate him, I hate the overhyping of him... being called "superman" and "that must've been the first mistake he ever made in his life" is just utter garbage to my ears. He runs the ball up the middle and does a nancy-boy jump pass... and that's pretty much it...Urban Meyer's a genius coach I think and he pretty much created Tebow with that offensive scheme of his...

OABB
12-31-2010, 02:41 PM
It looks like mot of the "haters" are supporters of rival schools that got beat up by him. You were saying a lot of NFL players hated TT.

NO I DID NOT!!!! I never said that crazy! I just said Tebow has a lot of pressure because a lot of people want to see him fail. More so than orton. And NOT just Bronco fans...

baja
12-31-2010, 02:44 PM
People are hating on the hype about Tebow but not the guy himself.

Ray Lewis is hated where as it's the hype about Tebow that is hated not the man.

OrangeSe7en
12-31-2010, 02:46 PM
im bored now.... anyone else?

and by the way....I LOVE tebow and I know that he is beloved as well. I never claimed he wasn't loved. I just said that he has a nation of haters(which is true to any hyped superstart like tebow) and that he has pressure to fail. He is not like Orton where most people don't feel one way or another about him was all I was saying.

You make a valid point. There are those naysayers both nationally and within ranks, whether it be those to object to Tebow's religion or whether its him as a prospect. There are a lot of people still clamoring for Luck. Tebow's approval rating is around 75-80% though.

baja
12-31-2010, 02:49 PM
Bronco fans maybe.... The rest of the country? The media? The haters? He'll no. It would have been the exclamation point on the season and a further embarrassment to us. All hope in Denver would be gone. Orton does not have people that despise him like tebow does. Tebow is hated, absolutely Hated by alot of people that want him to fail. That is pressure. Orton was a throw in on a trade. He had less pressure.

Here is your post.

I think a lot of people are sick of the hype of an untested rookie QB but I don't think he is hated.

PS I thought it was you that said Ray Lewis was quoted as gunning for Tebow, was it?

Dr. Broncenstein
12-31-2010, 03:03 PM
It looks like mot of the "haters" are supporters of rival schools that got beat up by him. You were saying a lot of NFL players hated TT.

I wasn't a hater until my team got royally screwed by the officials in this game:

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That crew was so obviously terrible they were suspended. Tebow was not going to miss the SEC championship because of lowly Arkansas. I wouldn't mind if we were legitimately beaten, but Florida required some serious help on multiple occasions that day. Again, not just my opinion.. but that of the SEC.

That stung all the way through to the draft. I didn't know what to expect from a quarterback standpoint, but I was certain Tebow would make an immediate and huge difference in short yardage / red zone situations. In the meantime, he could learn the nuances over a couple of years behind Orton. At that point I was on board with the drafting of Tebow. Why in the world McDaniels waited until the Jets game to use him as a specialized red zone weapon, I'll never understand.

maven
12-31-2010, 03:15 PM
Orton had it "harder". He was to lead Denver to the playoffs and beyond. He **** the bed and now he rots on the bench awaiting a release or trade.

Dr. Broncenstein
12-31-2010, 03:31 PM
I didn't much care for his bible thumping, but I do appreciate where it's coming from. His faith is genuine, and he truly uses it to make himself a better person. It's not the Rev Deon Sanders fake Baptist revival that I usually associate with "religious" NFL types. The fact that Tebow's faith / politics truly upsets people (especially the N.O.W. types) is quite entertaining. I'd root for him just for that reason, even if he wasn't a Bronco.

Tombstone RJ
12-31-2010, 06:01 PM
I wasn't a hater until my team got royally screwed by the officials in this game:

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That crew was so obviously terrible they were suspended. Tebow was not going to miss the SEC championship because of lowly Arkansas. I wouldn't mind if we were legitimately beaten, but Florida required some serious help on multiple occasions that day. Again, not just my opinion.. but that of the SEC.

That stung all the way through to the draft. I didn't know what to expect from a quarterback standpoint, but I was certain Tebow would make an immediate and huge difference in short yardage / red zone situations. In the meantime, he could learn the nuances over a couple of years behind Orton. At that point I was on board with the drafting of Tebow. Why in the world McDaniels waited until the Jets game to use him as a specialized red zone weapon, I'll never understand.

Yah, I remember this game and this was when I was really not a Tebow fan. Simply because the hype around him and the gators. Arkansas got shafted in that game. Especially that personal foul call where the Florida player initiated a block on an Arkansas player and the Arkansas player laid him out. Then the refs throw a flag. WTF? Game was fixed IMHO.