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vanbrugh
12-30-2010, 04:31 AM
http://www.milehighsports.com/article.asp?id=2066399

Sounding more and more likely its going to be him!

chrisp
12-30-2010, 06:09 AM
Well, we can't honestly know if the stuff in that article is true or not - however, I'm hoping to god that it is....

Key thing that recent years have proved to us is this: evaluating talent is a full-time job these days, and therefore not a job a coach can do in his spare time.

So, if Xanders really is a full-time tape-watching guy, and if he really did get overuled on multiple decisions by josh (which I can believe) then as long as he has final say in the new structure i'm ok with it.

absolute priority for this franchise is that a full-time personnel guy has final say over our #2 pick. A head coach will always think they know better, but the fact is they don't have the time to watch enough tape of guys to know if they're really any good.

Its all on this draft....if we screw up our first-round pick it could set us back years.....if we get it right, we might just crawl up out of the slime we're now in....

Jesterhole
12-30-2010, 06:13 AM
Its just like when we promoted Martindale, you're never going to get excited about someone on your own staff taking over.

ro_50
12-30-2010, 07:04 AM
I just read that article and if all of that true (well hell if the Hillis and Ayers pick is true), then I don't mind giving Xanders a shot. It seems McDaniels had final say on everything and had the power to over-ride Xanders' opinion.

I think if Elway is hired and is the conduit between the Owner Bowlen and Xanders -- if he's the team's GM -- then I'm fine w/ that.

Give Xanders a shot at running it if Bowlen and Ellis like him as much as reported they do. But he needs to have final say then it will be the GM then coach structure that has been missing in Denver for years.

lostknight
12-30-2010, 07:07 AM
At the end of the day, if elway is "owner" and VP of football ops, it's his decision. Sanders is a master of manipulating the media, so I'll believe not a whit until a fresh evaluation is done.

outdoor_miner
12-30-2010, 07:25 AM
Interesting. There is a very obvious PR onslought to clear up his name. I don't buy the "he wanted to draft Matthews" 20/20 hind-sight, but it appears that he is pretty well respected in the league. There have been a lot of positive quotes from different people in the league about him. Anyway - it is becoming exceedingly obvious that he will be the GM. I hope he knows what he's doing.

CEH
12-30-2010, 07:26 AM
I said this earlier a couple weeks ago. If the team has documented who wanted who during Xander last two years it may bode well for him. I'm sure he had an opinion on every pick in the last 2 years since he was part of the in the inner circle with Josh.

I kinda agree with SD approach. Let's not blow this thing up. Review , analyze and make adjustments accordingly

Kaylore
12-30-2010, 07:49 AM
Interesting. There is a very obvious PR onslought to clear up his name. I don't buy the "he wanted to draft Matthews" 20/20 hind-sight, but it appears that he is pretty well respected in the league. There have been a lot of positive quotes from different people in the league about him. Anyway - it is becoming exceedingly obvious that he will be the GM. I hope he knows what he's doing.

Yeah but at the end of the day, this is about spinning Xanders as GM material. This could be the organization wanting to clear his name before they announce it, or his agent trying to fluff him up before he's fired. We'll see.

meangene
12-30-2010, 08:03 AM
Yeah but at the end of the day, this is about spinning Xanders as GM material. This could be the organization wanting to clear his name before they announce it, or his agent trying to fluff him up before he's fired. We'll see.

This. There has been quite a campaign to distance Xanders from McDaniels and sell him as GM material. I'm not buying it, but, it seems clear, this is a done deal.

Beantown Bronco
12-30-2010, 08:06 AM
Yeah but at the end of the day, this is about spinning Xanders as GM material. This could be the organization wanting to clear his name before they announce it, or his agent trying to fluff him up before he's fired. We'll see.

This.

When Josh came out a year ago and was quoted by numerous sources that not a single decision was made without both he and Xanders signing off on it, we didn't hear a peep from Xanders. He was given ample opportunity to do so, but never denied it.

Now that McD is gone, of course, he's going to make it sound like every good decision was his and every bad one was McD's. Shocking.

strafen
12-30-2010, 08:14 AM
It went down like this...
When McDaniels was hired and Xanders became the GM, it was pretty clear that Xanders will be doing the shopping and Mcdaniels will be doing the cooking.

My strong opinion on Xanders is, the guy has no backbone.
He's weak. Can't have that in a guy looking to remain your GM.
How could he say McDaniels did this, and McDaniels did that and not show veto power to overrule some of McDaniels "final" say on key team personnel moves/decisions?

We can certaintly do better than that...

outdoor_miner
12-30-2010, 08:14 AM
Yeah but at the end of the day, this is about spinning Xanders as GM material. This could be the organization wanting to clear his name before they announce it, or his agent trying to fluff him up before he's fired. We'll see.

I just highly doubt that he's out there doing these interviews (while still employed by the organization) without the team's blessing, which makes your first scenario more likely. I guess it's possible that the Broncos could be doing him a favor, and helping him land on his feet after he is let go, but I highly doubt it.

outdoor_miner
12-30-2010, 08:18 AM
It went down like this...
When McDaniels was hired and Xanders became the GM, it was pretty clear that Xanders will be doing the shopping and Mcdaniels will be doing the cooking.

My strong opinion on Xanders is, the guy has no backbone.
He's weak. Can't have that in a guy looking to remain your GM.
How could he say McDaniels did this, and McDaniels did that and not show veto power to overrule some of McDaniels "final" say on key team personnel moves/decisions?

We can certaintly do better than that...

It's a classic workplace scenario... Having responsibility without authority. If the power structure in Dove Valley was such that McD had total control, then Xanders has no choice but to go along with it. I don't think having "backbone" has anything to do with it. McDaniels was obviously given complete and total control over there...

I'm as dubious as most everyone else around here. I'm also resigned to the fact that is going to be the GM.

Tombstone RJ
12-30-2010, 11:53 AM
give Xanders a chance to fly. You go X man! spread those wings and soar!

SoCalBronco
12-30-2010, 11:58 AM
Elway/Xanders is about the worst combination I could possibly think of. Hopefully they impress, but I'm not thrilled about this at all. Trading down MULTIPLE times in the draft and accumulating at least 10 selections would go a long way to winning me over, tho.

schaaf
12-30-2010, 12:05 PM
I do like our last 2 drafts a lot more than almost all of the previous ten in the last decade.
I can recall 2 drafts in the Shanahan era that had an impact.
1. The 06 draft with Cutler/Marshall/Dumervil
2. The 08 draft with Clady/Royal/

HILife
12-30-2010, 12:11 PM
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/12994/X%20Men%20Poster.jpg

jhns
12-30-2010, 12:16 PM
I really don't want Xanders as GM mostly because I want an experienced GM. His only experience being an actual GM (if we can even consider it that) was here, while we are going through some horrible times.

I'm starting to not really care who they have in the front office. Tebow will make whoever it is look good anyways.

Houshyamama
12-30-2010, 12:20 PM
give Xanders a chance to fly. You go X man! spread those wings and soar!

Don't you understand? He's a peacock, you gotta let him fly!

Drek
12-30-2010, 12:30 PM
I just highly doubt that he's out there doing these interviews (while still employed by the organization) without the team's blessing, which makes your first scenario more likely. I guess it's possible that the Broncos could be doing him a favor, and helping him land on his feet after he is let go, but I highly doubt it.

Why would the Broncos waste their time disputing his claims? Seems pretty crass for the organization to do that, especially if he's still on the payroll at the time being.

Every article like this I see I hope more and more that Xanders is shown the door. It turns out that EVERY bad offensive move was McDaniels working rogue and EVERY good move was a "collaborative effort".

Its getting to the point where people with supposed inside information (read: being fed a line by someone) are now claiming Xanders would have made all the moves you can look back with 20/20 hindsight and say the Broncos should have made.

Its duplicitous as ****. If this is an organizational push it just goes to show how ****ed up this organization as gotten itself with Ellis running things. If its just Xanders and his agent trying to put lipstick on the pig then its nothing short of full on media whoring. Either way this **** needs to stop and all involved parties need to be shown the door.

orange crusher
12-30-2010, 12:30 PM
Pretty easy to sit back and say I didn't want this or my pick would have been that now.

gyldenlove
12-30-2010, 12:42 PM
He watches 10 hours of tape a day? When does he find time to do any actual work?

I don't remember reading a worse piece of fluff work than this. Aside from a few quotes from Xanders after the fact we have no proof that he was so livid about the decisions Mcdaniels apparently made on his own.

I get trying to prop up the guy, but he was never put in charge of scouting until the Goodmen left, and it was quite by default the job fell to him, let us not turn him into the next Ozzie Newsome over the pro personnel he has added this season.

SoCalBronco
12-30-2010, 12:42 PM
Why would the Broncos waste their time disputing his claims? Seems pretty crass for the organization to do that, especially if he's still on the payroll at the time being.

Every article like this I see I hope more and more that Xanders is shown the door. It turns out that EVERY bad offensive move was McDaniels working rogue and EVERY good move was a "collaborative effort".

Its getting to the point where people with supposed inside information (read: being fed a line by someone) are now claiming Xanders would have made all the moves you can look back with 20/20 hindsight and say the Broncos should have made.

Its duplicitous as ****. If this is an organizational push it just goes to show how ****ed up this organization as gotten itself with Ellis running things. If its just Xanders and his agent trying to put lipstick on the pig then its nothing short of full on media whoring. Either way this **** needs to stop and all involved parties need to be shown the door.

Great post, Drek.

Xanders is a pizza man, HTF does that qualify him to be an NFL GM? I'm really really not pleased with this whole Elway/Xanders thing. How bout you actually bring in someone new and someone QUALIFIED, Pat? I truly HATE Bowlen and Ellis. I at least respect Ellis for his political skills, he's managed to play office politics well enough to push out a legend, destroy a first class operation and work his way up to being the de facto owner. That's serious talent. I respect that...I hate it, but respect the skills involved. Bowlen is just an embarassment of biblical proportions. I'd settle for a coherent sentence from him at this point, although I understand why he's hiding like a coward behind other people. **** him. I don't trust him to make any right decisions whatsoever. Let's just say that if he were on the recieving end of a punch to the dick from Joe Mays, I wouldn't be that upset. In fact, I might send Joe Mays a really nice gift basket. :) They need to bring in someone independent, with proven skills to run the whole show and pick the coach. And if Pat feels bad taking power away from Ellis, he can give Ellis a golden handshake to ease the blow...although he probably deserves to be on the recieving end of a golden shower....from Bob.

Drek
12-30-2010, 12:59 PM
Well SoCal you can argue that bringing in Elway and putting him in a football oversight/possible minority ownership role is going to take power away from Ellis. At least one would assume so, and thats a start.

An outside perspective with no ties to the current staff or players is essential to clean house at this point. We might have a lot of good pieces, but instead of letting the people who acquired them sit around and jerk each other off about how great they've done while going 4-11 (soon to be 5-11) we should bring someone in who will have an impartial eye and fix what truly needs fixing.

This is a rare opportunity to add some elite front office talent. We need to seize that opportunity and stop playing with the B league left overs of past failures.

TonyR
12-30-2010, 01:02 PM
When Josh came out a year ago and was quoted by numerous sources that not a single decision was made without both he and Xanders signing off on it, we didn't hear a peep from Xanders. He was given ample opportunity to do so, but never denied it.

I don't know, Bean, would you publicly contradict your boss? Xanders didn't have much to gain by doing so at the time.

SoCalBronco
12-30-2010, 01:03 PM
Well SoCal you can argue that bringing in Elway and putting him in a football oversight/possible minority ownership role is going to take power away from Ellis. At least one would assume so, and thats a start.

Taking power from Ellis and putting into Elway's hands is not a start. It's the same problem. It's like Bowlen thinks fans are stupid and will be happy with symbolic gestures. I'm not interested in the symbolism of Elway. He is NOT QUALIFIED WHATSOEVER to hold real power at this point. He doesn't know anything about scouting, or cap management, or crisis management, or pro personnel. He's run a AFL franchise. He's not qualified to do anything of value or make any decisions. It is a JOKE that he is being given power. It sucks major dick.

An outside perspective with no ties to the current staff or players is essential to clean house at this point. We might have a lot of good pieces, but instead of letting the people who acquired them sit around and jerk each other off about how great they've done while going 4-11 (soon to be 5-11) we should bring someone in who will have an impartial eye and fix what truly needs fixing.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU. I would LOVE to have DeCosta running the entire show. That's a real outside perspective, but unlike Elway, its a PROVEN perspective so far as FO goes.

This is a rare opportunity to add some elite front office talent. We need to seize that opportunity and stop playing with the B league left overs of past failures.

Agreed, but no elite FO talent is going to come here without real power, i.e. not having Elway and/or Ellis breathing down their necks. They have to be the MAN. Why would DeCosta take orders from Elway so far as GM'ing goes? No one is going to put up with that ****.

TonyR
12-30-2010, 01:04 PM
How bout you actually bring in someone new and someone QUALIFIED, Pat?

I completely agree. But as I've been saying, having Elway involved may really limit their options. Most of these big ego guys aren't going to want to have to answer to Elway.

SoCalBronco
12-30-2010, 01:05 PM
I completely agree. But as I've been saying, having Elway involved may really limit their options. Most of these big ego guys aren't going to want to have to answer to Elway.

I agree, that's why I am VERY UPSET with the idea of giving Elway any real power in the organization.

Chris
12-30-2010, 01:14 PM
Can someone make two images

One with Mcdaniels throwing something questionable into a shopping cart
One with Mcdaniels feeding Bowlen Ellis and Xanders are terrible meal

outdoor_miner
12-30-2010, 01:14 PM
Why would the Broncos waste their time disputing his claims? Seems pretty crass for the organization to do that, especially if he's still on the payroll at the time being.

Every article like this I see I hope more and more that Xanders is shown the door. It turns out that EVERY bad offensive move was McDaniels working rogue and EVERY good move was a "collaborative effort".

Its getting to the point where people with supposed inside information (read: being fed a line by someone) are now claiming Xanders would have made all the moves you can look back with 20/20 hindsight and say the Broncos should have made.

Its duplicitous as ****. If this is an organizational push it just goes to show how ****ed up this organization as gotten itself with Ellis running things. If its just Xanders and his agent trying to put lipstick on the pig then its nothing short of full on media whoring. Either way this **** needs to stop and all involved parties need to be shown the door.

I think you are going to be extremely disappointed. I just don't see any way that Xanders and his agent are out doing this PR stuff on their own whim.

I'm like you - I really really wish they would have taken this opportunity to perform a thorough evaluation of the organization, and in doing so, tried to find the best possible GM candidate to put the right structure in place. At this point, though, I am pretty much resigned to the fact that Elway and Xanders are going to be it. :lombardi:

DenverBrit
12-30-2010, 01:15 PM
Looks like the X Man will survive both Shanny and McD.

He's either a master of deflection, or actually has enough talent to get the job done.

Despite declarations to the contrary, we won't know until...or if....he's given enough FO power and clear cut responsibility that is measurable.

Bowlen has made enough mistakes the last two years, let's see if he gets this choice right.

Beantown Bronco
12-30-2010, 01:16 PM
I don't know, Bean, would you publicly contradict your boss? Xanders didn't have much to gain by doing so at the time.

According to everything written at the time about McD's hiring, Xanders was the one to most strongly recommend hiring McD and it was explained that Xanders was supposed to be HIS boss if anything. Not the other way around.

Drek
12-30-2010, 01:17 PM
Taking power from Ellis and putting into Elway's hands is not a start. It's the same problem. It's like Bowlen thinks fans are stupid and will be happy with symbolic gestures. I'm not interested in the symbolism of Elway. He is NOT QUALIFIED WHATSOEVER to hold real power at this point. He doesn't know anything about scouting, or cap management, or crisis management, or pro personnel. He's run a AFL franchise. He's not qualified to do anything of value or make any decisions. It is a JOKE that he is being given power. It sucks major dick.
If that is the role they plan to put Elway in then yes, I agree completely. I've envisioned it as something more akin to what Ellis was already doing here only with more name recognition and an ownership stake.

In short, Elway would take Bowlen's place as the "face" of ownership. He's every bit as qualified as Bowlen or Ellis to pick the person who then runs the show.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU. I would LOVE to have DeCosta running the entire show. That's a real outside perspective, but unlike Elway, its a PROVEN perspective so far as FO goes.
Exactly. You bring in a proven player personnel guy with the explicit agreement that he will run the long term (decade long) player acquisition side of the Denver Broncos. Elway and co. help select this guy but then they give him near autonomy on player personnel moves.

That person then works in collaboration with Elway to hire a new head coach, at which point Elway entrusts them with the future while the new GM and HC go off to fill out their staffs and acquire needed players, with significant moves (those that have major financial implications) being presented and explained to Elway so he can relay it to Bowlen.

Agreed, but no elite FO talent is going to come here without real power, i.e. not having Elway and/or Ellis breathing down their necks. They have to be the MAN. Why would DeCosta take orders from Elway so far as GM'ing goes? No one is going to put up with that ****.
They definitely won't. But I'm sure Elway as a boss who doesn't meddle is far more appealing than a suit who knows absolutely zero about football.

What it really comes down to is the scope within which Elway is going to operate.

If he is basically taking all the football related powers away from Ellis and will be Bowlen's direct interface with football related activities it could be a great fit and would provide the kind of long term "ownership" stability it appears this franchise needs. This is what I envisioned when the news first broke that he was joining the team.

If Elway thinks he can just step in and make player personnel calls from day one however then we're definitely in trouble.

DenverBrit
12-30-2010, 01:27 PM
According to everything written at the time about McD's hiring, Xanders was the one to most strongly recommend hiring McD and it was explained that Xanders was supposed to be HIS boss if anything. Not the other way around.

Wasn't Ellis the one interviewing McD for 6 hours after Bowlen fell in love with him?
I'm not sure Xanders was doing much other than keeping a low profile and hoping to survive after Shanny was let go.

TonyR
12-30-2010, 01:31 PM
Somebody posted this in another thread today:

Everything I hear in regard to the Broncos' GM search leads me to believe that John Elway's role there will be much more than merely cosmetic. Several league sources have indicated that Elway is in line for a top position with the club, one in which he could hold the power to settle ties between the next coach and the personnel department and be near the top of the decision-making process.

If so, history would indicate putting a star player with no former personnel training into such a role would be a guarantee for disaster. The Broncos could still bring in someone else with more front-office experience to join the mix, but Elway obviously is a huge name and a massive presence in Denver, and given his tight relationship with ownership, that could create some complicated dynamics to say the least.

I also continue to hear that Brian Xanders, Denver's current general manager, is well positioned to remain in a prominent role and that his meetings with Elway have been very positive. Xanders is well versed in the CBA, contracts and dealing with agents -- some of the many things with which Elway has zero experience. Elway's role would also likely make Gary Kubiak even more of a favorite to resurface there, as it seems a near certainty he will not be back with the Texans.

Kubiak and Elway both joined the Broncos as players in 1983, spending their careers together. The glowing endorsements Kubiak has given recently to Elway in the media, and his effusive praise of Broncos rookie quarterback Tim Tebow following a loss to Denver on Sunday, did not go unnoticed in league circles, either.

"I thought for a minute there the postgame news conference was his first interview for the Broncos job," one NFL general manager quipped.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d4cdcd/article/improving-offense-earns-bears-newfound-respect?module=HP_cp2

Beantown Bronco
12-30-2010, 01:51 PM
Wasn't Ellis the one interviewing McD for 6 hours after Bowlen fell in love with him?
I'm not sure Xanders was doing much other than keeping a low profile and hoping to survive after Shanny was let go.

After Shana-han was fired after that season, Xanders was among the Broncos' five-man coaching search committee that hired McDaniels. Xanders wrote a four-page report to his fellow committee members explaining why he thought McDaniels should be hired.

"I had actually interviewed coaches such as Mike Singletary, Rex Ryan, Ken Whisenhunt, Mike Smith, Jim Caldwell and Jason Garrett," Xanders said. "Of the 17 interviews I've been through, I was excited the most about Josh coming to Denver."

Soon after McDaniels was hired, Xanders was promoted to general manager.

"Many football people say in this league you cannot have success or build a winning program unless the general manager and the head coach are on the same page," Xanders said. "That's what we have here."

Read more: Broncos coach McDaniels, GM Xanders on same page - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14451686#ixzz19dOB4rQI
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Tombstone RJ
12-30-2010, 02:28 PM
There's no doubt McD interviewed well and that he's a dynamic individual who has a huge football IQ and loves the game. The Broncos hired him but they did not create an environment where McD could succeed. Lesson learned, now let's hope that the Broncos grow from this experience.

DenverBrit
12-30-2010, 02:33 PM
After Shana-han was fired after that season, Xanders was among the Broncos' five-man coaching search committee that hired McDaniels. Xanders wrote a four-page report to his fellow committee members explaining why he thought McDaniels should be hired.

"I had actually interviewed coaches such as Mike Singletary, Rex Ryan, Ken Whisenhunt, Mike Smith, Jim Caldwell and Jason Garrett," Xanders said. "Of the 17 interviews I've been through, I was excited the most about Josh coming to Denver."

Soon after McDaniels was hired, Xanders was promoted to general manager.

"Many football people say in this league you cannot have success or build a winning program unless the general manager and the head coach are on the same page," Xanders said. "That's what we have here."

Read more: Broncos coach McDaniels, GM Xanders on same page - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14451686#ixzz19dOB4rQI
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

I see Xanders was given responsibility for writing the report on behalf of the search committee but Ellis gave McD his 'final' interview.....6hrs, I recall.

My point was that Ellis is the real power broker at Dove Valley, not X.

Honestly, I don't know what to make of the moves being made by Bowlen and Ellis. But I'm going to support whatever decision they make.....unless/until it unravels again......in which case, I'll grab my pitchfork, and join the rest of the villagers.

Tombstone RJ
12-30-2010, 02:38 PM
I would love to read the 4 page report Xanders wrote on McD.

outdoor_miner
12-30-2010, 04:11 PM
I would love to read the 4 page report Xanders wrote on McD.

Dude! Check out what I found on-line... Crazy. Could this be real?

Likwid Kerruj
12-30-2010, 06:04 PM
Get Xanders out of there.

What kind of "GM" lets someone run roughshod like McDaniels did?

The Goodmans probably got fired for laughing in McDaniels' face when he suggested the Cutler/Cassel idea.

I don't think it's coincidence that whole thing surfaced only a couple weeks after the firings which eventually left Xanders as de facto GM.

SoCalBronco
12-30-2010, 06:28 PM
Dude! Check out what I found on-line... Crazy. Could this be real?

OMG that's amazing....and probably chilliingly accurate.

Rep. :thumbs:

outdoor_miner
12-31-2010, 07:43 AM
OMG that's amazing....and probably chilliingly accurate.

Rep. :thumbs:

haha - thanks! Let's hope for all our sakes that he's honed his GM skills a bit since that time... :)

strafen
12-31-2010, 08:49 AM
I agree, that's why I am VERY UPSET with the idea of giving Elway any real power in the organization.I think we may have misunderstood the scope of Elway's responsibility within the Broncos Organization.
I really don't think anybody here knows, including yours truly.

In my humble opinion, Elway is going to be groomed to eventually take over as the team new owner(s). That's to me the most glaring evidence of why Elway is now part of the team in the first place.

Elway will learn the ins and outs of this franchise.
He's obviously going to be involved in many aspects of running the team, but I don't think it will be like many here are saying that Elway will have veto power on what goes on the field.

He'll be at the consultant level -albeit at a high executive level- at least in his first year and then learn from that while allowing the rest of the staff do their jobs.

Relax, and let things roll first before we can conclusively say one way or another how Elway's role will impact the team on the field...