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View Full Version : Sports Science: Tim Tebow (revisited)


enjolras
12-28-2010, 09:43 PM
So one thing has been nagging me. I wanted to revisit this video from before the draft:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/12263/video-sport-science-tim-tebow

Essentially it breaks down the 'old' college motion vs. the one that Tebow was trying to sell to the pro scouts. I was curious, how is that going?

The answer? Not well. His motion throughout both games he has started has been consistently the old college motion. He carries the ball at chest height, he drops it below his belt, and he keeps that long motion through the ball. As far as I can tell, nothing remains of that "pro" throwing motion.

I'm not really drawing any conclusions about what it means. I'm simply asking the question: is this something that we should worry about? Does it mean his motion can't be 'fixed'?

SonOfLe-loLang
12-28-2010, 09:48 PM
perhaps it was never an issue to begin with

TD4HOF
12-28-2010, 09:53 PM
No offense whatsoever towards Enjolras, but this throwing motion stuff is nonsense. The NFL has by far the worst scouting of any of the big 3 sports leagues. They have no idea what they're doing, NONE.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-28-2010, 09:55 PM
The thing thats dumb about that is that Tim speeds it up when he has to hurry a throw, yet retains his accuracy...i think its a non issue

tsiguy96
12-28-2010, 09:55 PM
its crazy that in order to be successful you need one throwing motion only. phillip rivers looks nuts when he throws the ball but hes frickin good. is it ideal? no but it gets the job done, so quit trying to fix it if its not going to work!

enjolras
12-28-2010, 09:57 PM
its crazy that in order to be successful you need one throwing motion only. phillip rivers looks nuts when he throws the ball but hes frickin good. is it ideal? no but it gets the job done, so quit trying to fix it if its not going to work!

I was actually getting to post that. I was just watching Philip Rivers on my laptop with Tebow on the TV. They actually have really similar motions, Rivers is just a bit quicker. They both bring the ball low and sling it sort of sidearm. They look a LOT alike.

Cmac821
12-28-2010, 10:05 PM
I was actually getting to post that. I was just watching Philip Rivers on my laptop with Tebow on the TV. They actually have really similar motions, Rivers is just a bit quicker. They both bring the ball low and sling it sort of sidearm. They look a LOT alike.

I think rivers has a more "pushing" style of throwing, like a shot put

vercingetorix
12-28-2010, 10:09 PM
There were a couple of times during the preseason that someone was trying to tackle him as he was throwing. They made impact while he was in his throwing motion but Tebow was still able to get the throw off with minimal disruption. You dont want him to overrely on this but the guy is just so incredibly strong. He might be the strongest QB in the history of the league. That may seem outrageous but he has to be up there with guys like McNair and Roethlisberger, if not stronger.

Inkana7
12-28-2010, 10:14 PM
I actually thought that his motion had tightened up since last year.

snowspot66
12-28-2010, 10:17 PM
There were a couple of times during the preseason that someone was trying to tackle him as he was throwing. They made impact while he was in his throwing motion but Tebow was still able to get the throw off with minimal disruption. You dont want him to overrely on this but the guy is just so incredibly strong. He might be the strongest QB in the history of the league. That may seem outrageous but he has to be up there with guys like McNair and Roethlisberger, if not stronger.

Yeah I was hoping to see that. He got them off just fine. I think this is going to be a non issue. If it ever becomes an issue then maybe we ought to start taking a look at our offensive line.

vercingetorix
12-28-2010, 10:20 PM
Yeah I was hoping to see that. He got them off just fine. I think this is going to be a non issue. If it ever becomes an issue then maybe we ought to start taking a look at our offensive line.

Yeah, and just so Im clear, I dont mean guys hitting him their hands or hanging from his legs. Im talking about guys launching into his body with minimal disruption.

sisterhellfyre
12-28-2010, 10:34 PM
[QUOTE=enjolras;3061184I'm not really drawing any conclusions about what it means. I'm simply asking the question: is this something that we should worry about? Does it mean his motion can't be 'fixed'?[/QUOTE]

Two thoughts:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Does it need to be fixed?

schaaf
12-28-2010, 11:06 PM
This whole throwing motion thing is full of crap. The rivers post is a good one, he looks like a monkey trying to throw the ball and he has absolutely no problem with passes. So far I have seen Tebow laser them in and also put some touch on them.

Some of his passes seem to sail a little bit but I am not sure if it is him being a left handed quarterback or if it actually does sail

cutthemdown
12-28-2010, 11:18 PM
The main problem is he carries it lower when he scrambles. Makes it hard to throw on the run if a defender is anywhere near the passer.

He's a gamer though. His heart is as big as Elways I think. Hard to measure or quantify that sort of thing in sports. His talent as a passer may be average. But you throw in his toughness and running ability and he could be a really hard qb to beat.

Taco John
12-28-2010, 11:53 PM
You've seen him on the field twice now. Did you think it was an issue?

myMind
12-29-2010, 12:07 AM
Its only an issue because NFL scouts and commentators need cannon fodder to pay the bills,
and Tebows "style" is unorthodox enough to criticize.
If he can prove his style works, all the doubters dissapear.
Is it ironic that the word unothodox can be applied to Tebow?

ton80
12-29-2010, 12:52 AM
When Tebow's intended receiver is way down and you see the long slow wind up; more times than not that means that Tebow is comfortable in the pocket and is about to deliver an accurately thrown ball down field for a huge play.

My guess is that if one was to chart Tebow's delivery time vs. completion percentage, you would see that the slow delivery on the graph translates into big QB numbers.

Tebow delivers the ball with multiple releases depending on what is needed. If he has the time to hit a receiver way down field, you will likely see Tebow take the long wind up.

Atwater His Ass
12-29-2010, 12:59 AM
Don't really care as long as he's able to make all the throws.

Houshyamama
12-29-2010, 01:10 AM
I think the only time it's really going to bother him is when speed rushers come around the edge and swat at it during his wind-up. Other than that... I'm cool with it. Like someone else said, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

waz06
12-29-2010, 01:20 AM
Don't really care as long as he's able to make all the throws.

+1
All that matters is how effective and efficient he is sustaining drives.
This keeps our defense off the field and fresh.
An awful defense will perform better if they are not on the field all game long like ours has been all season.

Timmy can throw sideways, underhanded, backwards whatever so long as it is complete and move the chains.

The fact that he is a good christian and a good role model is just icing.
I would like him even if he is a disciple of Osama bin Laden.

Bottom line is he is a winner and that is what we need.

Thank you Mcd for providing the solution for the mess you made.

KevinJames
12-29-2010, 01:56 AM
Its probably not going to change your going to have to learn to live with it.

theres going to be times where his motion gets him in trouble and sometimes you won't even notice it.

Theres going to be times where DBs jump the throw because of it.

Theres also going to be times where he gets hit while hes throwing and it will likely be a fumble.

lostknight
12-29-2010, 06:11 AM
]
I'm not really drawing any conclusions about what it means. I'm simply asking the question: is this something that we should worry about? Does it mean his motion can't be 'fixed'?

Is the number of strip sacks he has had in 2 games starting and 5-6 plays before that all season a concern? Given that he has played two of the best defensive lines in the NFL in Oakland and San Diego, are you concerned about him not being able to have the time he needs to deliver the ball downfield?

Wait.. What's that. Zero strips?

Nevermind.

supermanhr9
12-29-2010, 06:26 AM
Every pro QB will tell you the same thing, it's foot work that gets the job done... not an arm motion. Look at Vick's weird motion, Phillip rivers, they get the job done just fine.

I personally don't care about his motion, just as long as he keeps working on his foot work, the accuracy will be there. He has plenty of strength (not huge, but definitely not Chad Pennington).

Also, look at all the picturesque throwing motions that come out of college.... where are they? That's right selling insurance or sitting on a bench somewhere. Tebow just threw for 300+ yards and is the starter of a coveted franchise. He will struggle at times, but that is why he was blessed with athleticism, he'll create way more opportunites with his legs than what a fraction of a second will cost him throughout his career.

Mile High Shack
12-29-2010, 06:37 AM
I've always thought it wasn't that big of a deal, I worried about it because I listened to the talking heads

the long delivery style worries me, not the angle or anything, I just wish he had a hair quicker release

Rascal
12-29-2010, 06:43 AM
some native douchebag seems to think he is a white Byron Leftwich.

bronco_diesel
12-29-2010, 06:49 AM
once the throwing motion thing is put to rest, they will find something else to explain why he's not a NFL QB (while he plays in the NFL).

my guess is they will start saying how unlikely it is for a left handed QB to win a superbowl and provide stats as to how many have actually won one....and for this reason the Broncos need to go out and get a right handed QB.

Ray Finkle
12-29-2010, 06:57 AM
So one thing has been nagging me. I wanted to revisit this video from before the draft:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/12263/video-sport-science-tim-tebow

Essentially it breaks down the 'old' college motion vs. the one that Tebow was trying to sell to the pro scouts. I was curious, how is that going?

The answer? Not well. His motion throughout both games he has started has been consistently the old college motion. He carries the ball at chest height, he drops it below his belt, and he keeps that long motion through the ball. As far as I can tell, nothing remains of that "pro" throwing motion.

I'm not really drawing any conclusions about what it means. I'm simply asking the question: is this something that we should worry about? Does it mean his motion can't be 'fixed'?

the only difference I see is better footwork and he does carry the ball higher.

Jay3
12-29-2010, 07:21 AM
I think it's going to always look the same.

Throughout all this supposed "fixing" of the motion, it's looked the same to me.

When he needs to get rid of it quick, he seems to do that.

When people say "he's worked on it and it's gotten better," what they really mean is "I wish I had never hung my hat on the throwing motion thing, and if you'll let me I will climb out of this bag of fail."

bronco militia
12-29-2010, 07:26 AM
some native douchebag seems to think he is a white Byron Leftwich.

mehhh....native is gay

;D

Mile High Shack
12-29-2010, 07:27 AM
some native douchebag seems to think he is a white Byron Leftwich.

that's because most OU fans (who is all that is on the sports animal here) HATE Tim Tebow for some reason. I guess it's b/c OU got their ass kicked? I don't know, I've never understood why OU fans hate Tebow so much.

Jay3
12-29-2010, 08:00 AM
I was actually getting to post that. I was just watching Philip Rivers on my laptop with Tebow on the TV. They actually have really similar motions, Rivers is just a bit quicker. They both bring the ball low and sling it sort of sidearm. They look a LOT alike.

They were much more similar if you compare college Rivers. The more compact shotput we see from Rivers now came out after he had been riding the pine for two years in San Diego.

Broncoman13
12-29-2010, 08:26 AM
LOLZ, it's not his delivery that needs to be fixed... it's his touch on the short and intermediate routes. That is something that is very common with rookie QBs. It will take him a couple years to develop that touch and timing, but I have no doubt he will develop it. The endzone pass to Eddie Royal is a perfect example. He tried to make that a "touch" pass and ended up throwing it both long and late. The result was an incompletion in the back of the endzone. In time, he will throw that ball earlier and be able to drop it right on the flag/cone/pylon in the corner of the endzone. Just takes time to develop that touch.

~Crash~
12-29-2010, 08:51 AM
You've seen him on the field twice now. Did you think it was an issue?

Taco you know if you are not solid .Teams will pick at you and find your weak sauce then turn it on you. Look at Vick yes he is still good ,but when he took the field earlier on in the season . Everyone started the wowing but teams are finding ways to slow him down all the same.

Darkdoc
12-29-2010, 09:11 AM
It is most important what happens at the end of the pass, not the beginning.

Throwing motion is only one small aspect of an NFL pass.

Tim threw for 300+ yards, a very good start, but we all hope to see it continue (passes being completed) against good defenses that have had time to scheme against him.

If and when that happens, we'll have a better idea what the future is likely to hold for the Tebow and the Broncos.

So far the future has brightened a lot, but honestly, who wouldn't like to have more confirmation? I love the guy and his potential, it'll be fun and thrilling to see it all work out.

ghwk
12-29-2010, 10:33 AM
I don't think it's a big deal. The brain compensates for the motion and starts it sooner or speeds it up as needed.

Jason in LA
12-29-2010, 11:02 AM
If he can get his completion percentage above 60% and there is no fumbling issue as he's throwing the ball, I could care less about the throwing motion. By next year we'll know if it is an issue or not, but so far it hasn't been.

Kind of like Reggie Miller and his jump shot. His form was terrible, but he perfected a bad technique and became one of the best shooters in basketball history.

Rohirrim
12-29-2010, 11:18 AM
If he can get his completion percentage above 60% and there is no fumbling issue as he's throwing the ball, I could care less about the throwing motion. By next year we'll know if it is an issue or not, but so far it hasn't been.

Kind of like Reggie Miller and his jump shot. His form was terrible, but he perfected a bad technique and became one of the best shooters in basketball history.

It's like Furyk's golf swing. You wouldn't teach that gawdawful motion to anybody, but he locked it in and succeeded with it.

Mr
12-29-2010, 11:30 AM
If it aint broke dont fix it.
The mechanics of his body dictate the overall look of his motion. Changing that would require a throwing arm transplant.
He's getting the ball where it needs to be (for the most part, so far)
And its getting there quick enough.

Taco John
12-29-2010, 11:36 AM
Taco you know if you are not solid .Teams will pick at you and find your weak sauce then turn it on you. Look at Vick yes he is still good ,but when he took the field earlier on in the season . Everyone started the wowing but teams are finding ways to slow him down all the same.

I know that Tebow is solid enough to be given at least a year to look at him without needing to reinvest in the QB position at this time. I know that his teammates have bought in. I know he'll work his soul out to run whatever offense is put into his hands. I think if there's a real question about Tebow, it's going to be what kind of offense to put him in. And that points straight to coaching.

We got us a guy who might be a little unconventional. Let's see what a good coach can do with a talent like this.

Dedhed
12-29-2010, 12:03 PM
I don't think the mechanics matter at all really. The only annoying thing about it will be that whenever he gets the ball swatted, like every QB does eventually, every moron pundit will bring out the "windup" card.

In reality, every QB gets the ball swiped out of their hand as they go to throw it, and I would bet that Tebow's delivery will amount to 1-2 extra fumbles over the course of his entire career.

epicSocialism4tw
12-29-2010, 12:14 PM
I know that Tebow is solid enough to be given at least a year to look at him without needing to reinvest in the QB position at this time. I know that his teammates have bought in. I know he'll work his soul out to run whatever offense is put into his hands. I think if there's a real question about Tebow, it's going to be what kind of offense to put him in. And that points straight to coaching.

We got us a guy who might be a little unconventional. Let's see what a good coach can do with a talent like this.

Back around draft time when Gruden gave opinion a couple of times on Tebow, I was impressed. Gruden was forward-thinking enough to see what could be done with this kid. His wheels were already turning.

Denver needs an innovator to team with Tebow. Someone who is a little old-school and creative at the same time. The right coach paired with Tebow could revolutionize the way that offense is played for another generation.

snowspot66
12-29-2010, 12:20 PM
I don't think the mechanics matter at all really. The only annoying thing about it will be that whenever he gets the ball swatted, like every QB does eventually, every moron pundit will bring out the "windup" card.

In reality, every QB gets the ball swiped out of their hand as they go to throw it, and I would bet that Tebow's delivery will amount to 1-2 extra fumbles over the course of his entire career.

I agree with this. It just doesn't happen very often and when it does it means even Dan Marino wouldn't have been quick enough to get rid of it. Unfortunately, like you said, we'll have to listen to a bunch of idiots scream I told you so.