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View Full Version : If the proposed Elway-Xanders team is formed – how will they do?


montrose
12-28-2010, 06:37 PM
So another article from Woody today (http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_16955095) as well as one from Legwold (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16952955) reports they expect Elway to team with Xanders to run the personnel side of the Broncos. If this does turn out to be the case (which it should be noted, it hasn’t yet – officially), what are your thoughts

elsid13
12-28-2010, 06:38 PM
It is a bad idea. Neither Elway or Xander should have much say on talent acquisition for this team.

tsiguy96
12-28-2010, 06:43 PM
xanders info, from my previous posts:


VIC AND GARY:

xanders said tebow has done well with his opportunities...

talking about josh liking tebow and what xanders though, josh was intrigued by watching him on TV, great interview on combine, tebow and josh hit it off, great football minds and energy, flew him to denver and had a great all day interview, then they flew to gainesville for 6 hours to teach him scheme and protections and he did good. went to see demaryius, and tried to figure out strategy of where he would go in the draft. strategy that morning to move back to collect a bunch of picks, draft demaryius, then move back up to 1st/2nd to get tebow.

talking about intangibles and all that stuff, then throwing motion.

background is perceived as salary cap guy, but xanders says that a big misconception. 17 seasons in the league, dan reeves coaching staff for 5 years, learned def off and STs, lost a SB against elway his 2nd year coaching. moved to personnel from 02-08, unique job doing college scouting, cross check evals, go on road scouting, then did pro personnel FA, then did contract research on the side. 90% of his job now is watching tape and evaluating players. in 08, shanahan hired him to do all 3.

leaving his future up to pat and joe at end of season. would love to be here, loves the org but will wait to see what happens if hes still here.

VG: no secret josh had final say, how did that process work?
draft: college scouting dept, december and feb meetings, set board going into combine, xanders and mcd would evaluate and they would get together, there was some disagreements but mostly agreements, mcd had final say. always ready with shortlist of vets and younger players in pro personnel. in FA, they get together and execute their plan.

VG: can expect den to not trade away draft choices, rely more on draft and less on vets?
with me, plan would be to try and acquire more selections and build team through draft. younger players on the roster, develop tehm with your scheme then retain those players. invest in your own draft picks and develop them. gonna need some replacements for team needs and injuries.

VG: is tebow future?
hes in his 2nd game, well see where he goes.

VG: player that broncos let go, polarizing figure, peyton hillis.
thing on that id rather not say publicly, but hes done a great job in cleveland. wont answer anything else.

KLIS ON XANDERS

Mike - You mentioned that the strong possibility exists that Elway would be hired as a director of football operations and Brian Xanders as the decision-making GM. Is this the right move for the franchise considering the appearance that Xanders was part of the player-personnel problems of the past two drafts?
-- Chad Emery, Richmond, Va.

Chad - Xanders understands the jury is out on him. He did work closely with McDaniels the past two years in the player-evaluation and roster-building process. But there are a couple reasons why Xanders will get a chance to continue his job.

One, everyone in the game speaks highly of him. He has all the qualifications, having worked in nearly every front-office department, and also has coaching experience with Dan Reeves and Wade Phillips in Atlanta. There is something about

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the way Xanders conducts himself that appeals to people within the industry. That includes Broncos owner Pat Bowlen and his right-hand man Joe Ellis. Xanders works hard and has an easy manner.
There is also a genuine belief by Bowlen and Ellis that Xanders can take the good from McDaniels' evaluation system, and discard the bad.

Much attention has been paid to the personnel gaffes of Peyton Hillis, Jarvis Green and Alphonso Smith. But McDaniels' system also saw Mario Haggan as a starting linebacker and not just a special teamer. It brought some solid players in Justin Bannan, Andre' Goodman and Brandon Lloyd.

Tim Tebow will always be part of McDaniels' legacy here. Selecting system-specific players is a concept that figures to become more popular in the league. McDaniels wasn't fired because of his personnel decisions. He was dismissed prematurely because of a cheating scandal. Without videogate, McDaniels may still have been fired at season's end because it became apparent his temperament wasn't well suited to motivate a team of men. But McDaniels isn't gone because he lacked brains. He's got big brains, big ol' football brains.

I think Xanders will be more thorough in the evaluation process than McDaniels and more patient with a player's development. Xanders' added responsibility will mean becoming more decisive. But that's always the biggest adjustment a person has to make when he becomes a boss for the first time.

if all you know about xanders is that he was here with mcdaniels, please for the love of god educate yourself before posting. he has very extensive experience in personnel, scouting and coaching. hes been in NFL for 17 years and just recently started doing cap work, tahts not his specialty. he was given no final authority with mcd here, so its hard to say what is his moves and what isnt. the last 2 drafts have been pretty good, overall, even with mcd making final shots.

schaaf
12-28-2010, 06:49 PM
that REALLY made it sound like something weird happened to cause them to trade hillis away

Dedhed
12-28-2010, 06:50 PM
I'm willing to give Xanders the benefit of the doubt. Our drafts have been far more promising the last 2 years than over the last decade+. I would guess that's where his input was the most influential, and that McDaniels had more to do with the impromptu personnel decisions.

Just speculation of course, but given that he isn't already gone one would think that the major gaffes fall more at the feet of Josh than Xanders.

Requiem
12-28-2010, 06:50 PM
I picked the last option, but not because Xanders is a McDaniels following tool. I just think it is a recipe for disaster.

24champ
12-28-2010, 07:02 PM
It's going to be a long decade for the Broncos if that is the case...

crush17
12-28-2010, 07:08 PM
Jeez that article by Woody is terrible.

oubronco
12-28-2010, 07:11 PM
Who knows can they do worse than what we have been thru

Dagmar
12-28-2010, 07:12 PM
It's going to be a long decade for the Broncos if that is the case...

This.

~Crash~
12-28-2010, 07:17 PM
I would grade this last draft as a A+ if you were to grade the players and not concentrate on yes we needed D . Xanders was only doing what the Coach wanted ! going by that I love all the players drafted .

outdoor_miner
12-28-2010, 07:23 PM
Sigh. Not very excited about this. I kept holding out hope that they would get a real GM, but the very fact that Xanders has been interviewing so much tells us all we need to know. Granted - maybe Xanders knows what the hell he is doing and will do a really great job... but it's tough to pin our hopes on a guy who was so closely tied to the current failure.

As for Elway - well, let's just say the closest comparison I can think of is Micheal Jordan being involved with the Charlotte Bobcats, and that has not worked out too well. I can't imagine Elway being willing to put in the time that some of these dedicated football men do.

Oh well - what the hell am I going to do? I hope it works out.

Hamrob
12-28-2010, 07:38 PM
I'm all for it. We need to find our roots. We're the Denver Broncos...who still have the Patriots stink on us by the way!!!

Who better to get us back to Broncos Football than JOHN ****ING ELWAY!!!

Let Tebow lead the charge. Allow Elway and Xanders to build us a defense, improve our running game and find us a TE.

We'll be back in contention next season...and back at the top in 2yrs. The Chiefs won the division this year and will likely finish up at 11-5. We beat their asses at Mile High and lost a close one 10-6 at arrowhead. We got blown out the first time around by the fade...but, played them tough at their place with a rookie QB starting his first game. We will play the Chugs tight this game too...just watch.

So what? Well, this years team is the worst that I can remember (well since 1990) and we are still competetive in our division. Why shouldn't we think we can compete with the Chiefs, Raiders and Chargers next year...and Elway/Xanders and Tebow will get us there.

Go Broncos!!!

montrose
12-28-2010, 10:06 PM
I love John the QB but have serious doubts about stepping into a position he's simply not qualified for. Xanders, meh...

The thing I'm really worried about is that if John's really a major disaster, will Pat Bowlen - who already fired Mike Shanahan - really fire John Freaking Elway? I suppose he would but wow that would be a headline.

NFLBRONCO
12-28-2010, 10:13 PM
I love John the QB but have serious doubts about stepping into a position he's simply not qualified for. Xanders, meh...

The thing I'm really worried about is that if John's really a major disaster, will Pat Bowlen - who already fired Mike Shanahan - really fire John Freaking Elway? I suppose he would but wow that would be a headline.

I agree

Ask Miami about Marino in FO

go_broncos
12-28-2010, 10:18 PM
It will be a failure..

strafen
12-28-2010, 10:18 PM
I love John the QB but have serious doubts about stepping into a position he's simply not qualified for. Xanders, meh...

The thing I'm really worried about is that if John's really a major disaster, will Pat Bowlen - who already fired Mike Shanahan - really fire John Freaking Elway? I suppose he would but wow that would be a headline.I don't think the burden will fall on Elway's shoulders.
elway is going to be in a different position overseeing some aspects of the football operations while Xanders will be exercising his duties as the GM.

Elway will be a consultant if you will with a lot of power, but I don't think he's going to interfere in Xanders decisions.
If anything, we need a personnel guru at GM.
To say Elway will be the main architect in the rebuilding of the Broncos is a stretch.

titan
12-28-2010, 10:28 PM
I love John the QB but have serious doubts about stepping into a position he's simply not qualified for. Xanders, meh...



Surely John is more qualified than Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis in picking a head coach and GM. If John were directly involved in scouting, yeah I'd have my doubts, but I see him more as a high level team president type (kind of like the role the late Keli McGregor had for the Rockies)

I do think we can do better than Xanders as GM, unless there is some evidence we don't know about regarding his decisions on player personnel the last 2 years. Such as if Xanders was against moves like the Hillis trade and the first Alphonso Smith trade but was overruled. At least in his interview the other day Xanders said he wants to build through the draft and not trade away draft picks. That's a start.

24champ
12-28-2010, 10:30 PM
I don't think the burden will fall on Elway's shoulders.
elway is going to be in a different position overseeing some aspects of the football operations while Xanders will be exercising his duties as the GM.

Elway will be a consultant if you will with a lot of power, but I don't think he's going to interfere in Xanders decisions.
If anything, we need a personnel guru at GM.
To say Elway will be the main architect in the rebuilding of the Broncos is a stretch.

While that sounds all hunky doory, and its a great PR move for the Broncos to bring in Elway. I am a little more than skeptical that a Elway/Xanders tandem would get the Broncos out of this mess. What if the Broncos continue to suck next season, is Xanders the fall guy? It obviously won't be Elway or the new incoming Head Coach.


The only consistent thing the Broncos have done lately is create instability and that's a perfect recipe to be a perennial loser and laughingstock of the league.

NFLBRONCO
12-28-2010, 10:33 PM
While that sounds all hunky doory, and its a great PR move for the Broncos to bring in Elway. I am a little more than skeptical that a Elway/Xanders tandem would get the Broncos out of this mess. What if the Broncos continue to suck next season, is Xanders the fall guy? It obviously won't be Elway or the new incoming Head Coach.


The only consistent thing the Broncos have done lately is create instability and that's a perfect recipe to be a perennial loser and laughingstock of the league.

Yep

Boomhauer
12-28-2010, 10:33 PM
Elway as Senior advisor is a good idea (smart business decisions and FO personel selection), but not in any type of GM or player personel capacity. Xanders is a mentally handicapped tool selected for his rubber-stamping ability.

Likwid Kerruj
12-28-2010, 10:40 PM
So two guys that MIGHT know what they're doing equals a successful front office?

I want Xanders gone if he's not gone immediately following the SD game.

Guilty by association in my book.

tsiguy96
12-28-2010, 10:42 PM
Elway as Senior advisor is a good idea (smart business decisions and FO personel selection), but not in any type of GM or player personel capacity. Xanders is a mentally handicapped tool selected for his rubber-stamping ability.

very intelligent discussion.

serious hops
12-28-2010, 10:51 PM
I can't bring myself to vote against the Duke, but I think we're pretty much ****ed.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
12-28-2010, 10:52 PM
Guys this isn't Voltron.

baja
12-28-2010, 11:35 PM
It's clear what happened here, Bowlen and Ellis were discussing what to do about the current FO disaster just as someone walked by looked at the trophy case and sang out "This one is for John" recalling the great memory of 12 years ago. Pat's ears purked up, a half smile crossed his face and he said, " That's it! I'll make John the boss.....".

orange crusher
12-29-2010, 12:26 AM
1) I like the idea of having Elway as a front office exec.
2) I really dispise the idea of Xanders having actual GM responsibilities.
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I'm not convinced that Elway has the qualifications or is going to want to put in the time to play co-GM and I don't have any confidence at all in Xanders. IMO, Xanders is just jockeying for the position by trying to blame McDaniels for everything that went wrong, which is very easy to do after the fact. If he had any balls at all, he would have went to Bowlen and Ellis as these things were unfolding. I'm not saying he didn't do just that but if he did, it just shows how much confidence they really have in him.


If there is anything to all of the Xanders fluff lately, it sounds to me like the organization isn't ready to empower a GM.

Atwater His Ass
12-29-2010, 01:57 AM
Elway will be successful. He's a winner and he'll bring that to the FO. I don't have any issues with whatever role Elway takes.

Xanders, I don't really know. It's not clear how much he's really contributed with personnel decisions, either good or bad.

BroncoInferno
12-29-2010, 07:21 AM
Elway will be successful. He's a winner and he'll bring that to the FO.

Isiah Thomas, Matt Millen, and Michael Jordan were "winners," too.

jhns
12-29-2010, 07:31 AM
I love seeing Elway come back to work with the team. The part I don't like is Xanders. He needs to go. He has been a cap specialist his entire career. I would love for Elway to have a real GM to work with. One that knows what they are doing.

Mile High Shack
12-29-2010, 07:35 AM
it's amazing how many people are football experts ;)

I'm more of a wait and see kinda guy....it will be really easy to get rid of Xanders and bring in a better GM if it doesn't work out

bunch of damn drama queens ;)

I keeed I keeeed

CEH
12-29-2010, 07:36 AM
I agree

Ask Miami about Marino in FO

Paul

Elway addressed this somewhere in radio land. He talked to Marino and John knows this is not a figure head position. The NBA logo says hi.

I'm not so concerned with Elway but I really wanted to see a clear cut new structure come in so I'm just in a wait and see mode. Not excited and a little disappointed

~Crash~
12-29-2010, 09:06 AM
It will be a failure..

do you have a postive bone in your body ? McD loves your post by the way .:flower:

~Crash~
12-29-2010, 09:07 AM
I don't get why people are dishing Elway ? So you guys want Ellis ?

~Crash~
12-29-2010, 09:15 AM
Food for thought . I like the Idea that some of the money spent on GM might be now spent retaining Bailey .

And not spent on Xanders next year doing nothing .Also Xanders was the man that moved around in the Draft I loved the manipulation he was the man in that draft .

TonyR
12-29-2010, 09:16 AM
...who still have the Patriots stink on us by the way!!!

Just fyi, the Pats are probably the best team in the league this year and are set up for the future with a huge haul of upcoming draft picks. I'll take some of that "stink".

TonyR
12-29-2010, 09:18 AM
I don't get why people are dishing Elway ? So you guys want Ellis ?

Nobody's "dishing" Elway. But most of us don't want him in any kind of role resembling GM because he has no experience at it and he himself has stated he's not cut out for it. As for Ellis I think he's a large part of the problem but I don't think he'll be going anywhere any time soon.

Rohirrim
12-29-2010, 09:23 AM
Just fyi, the Pats are probably the best team in the league this year and are set up for the future with a huge haul of upcoming draft picks. I'll take some of that "stink".

They could win the SB and in April have two firsts and two seconds. I would love to get some of that "stink" on us.

outdoor_miner
12-29-2010, 09:31 AM
I don't get why people are dishing Elway ? So you guys want Ellis ?

I honestly don't really care about Elway. Whatever. It's basically a PR move. I don't think Elway is going to have the vision to build a perennial power-house all by himself. I keep thinking of Michael Jordan's failures. But - it's not that big of a deal to me.

I'm more concerned with the GM. I wish they would have paired Elway with someone a little more exciting than Xanders. I honestly know nothing about him. Maybe he is the guy. I could be totally wrong, and it's not like we realy know much about any of the candidates. It's just hard to get excited about someone who basically played 2nd fiddle to McDaniels, and was known more as a cap guru before that. I did like the maneuvering in the last draft, though, so he's got that going for him...

tsiguy96
12-29-2010, 10:01 AM
I honestly don't really care about Elway. Whatever. It's basically a PR move. I don't think Elway is going to have the vision to build a perennial power-house all by himself. I keep thinking of Michael Jordan's failures. But - it's not that big of a deal to me.

I'm more concerned with the GM. I wish they would have paired Elway with someone a little more exciting than Xanders. I honestly know nothing about him. Maybe he is the guy. I could be totally wrong, and it's not like we realy know much about any of the candidates. It's just hard to get excited about someone who basically played 2nd fiddle to McDaniels, and was known more as a cap guru before that. I did like the maneuvering in the last draft, though, so he's got that going for him...

not true

outdoor_miner
12-29-2010, 10:14 AM
not true

I know you've been bringing up his interview, but that is literally the first I have ever heard of Xanders mentioned in a player evaluation role. Whatever... I will hope for the best. I admit I know nothing about him, other than my pre-conceived notion that he was a contracts guy. I will also admit that anyone else they bring in (at least - anyone who was not previously a GM) would be equally unknown. Sometimes, we all want change for change's sake.

Here's to hoping Xman the next Ozzie Newsome! :egbgb:

tsiguy96
12-29-2010, 10:21 AM
I know you've been bringing up his interview, but that is literally the first I have ever heard of Xanders mentioned in a player evaluation role. Whatever... I will hope for the best. I admit I know nothing about him, other than my pre-conceived notion that he was a contracts guy. I will also admit that anyone else they bring in (at least - anyone who was not previously a GM) would be equally unknown. Sometimes, we all want change for change's sake.

Here's to hoping Xman the next Ozzie Newsome! :egbgb:

hes been in the league for 17 years, he started in COACHING. theres no reason for anyone here to think that all he can do is contracts because thats what he did his last few years in the league.

LRtagger
12-29-2010, 10:27 AM
I know you've been bringing up his interview, but that is literally the first I have ever heard of Xanders mentioned in a player evaluation role. Whatever... I will hope for the best. I admit I know nothing about him, other than my pre-conceived notion that he was a contracts guy. I will also admit that anyone else they bring in (at least - anyone who was not previously a GM) would be equally unknown. Sometimes, we all want change for change's sake.

Here's to hoping Xman the next Ozzie Newsome! :egbgb:

He was in Player Personel with the Falcons for 14 years.

tsiguy96
12-29-2010, 10:29 AM
He was in Player Personel with the Falcons for 14 years.

and still is. he is directing all player personnel and scouting efforts for the team currently, has he did last year as well. i know a lot of people dont want to admit it, but the drafts havent been that bad. aside from smith/quinn, the rest of the guys have looked good and worthy of being selected, though none of them scream OMG GREAT PICK, none are true busts either.

jhns
12-29-2010, 10:31 AM
hes been in the league for 17 years, he started in COACHING. theres no reason for anyone here to think that all he can do is contracts because thats what he did his last few years in the league.

Last few years? That is all he has done for a long time. Before we hired him, he was a contract guru for a long time with Atlanta. They had another GM that did personnel. We hired him under Shanahan as a cap guru. We had another GM doing personnel.

He has only been a cap specialist since taking "GM" jobs...

outdoor_miner
12-29-2010, 10:35 AM
Last few years? That is all he has done for a long time. Before we hired him, he was a contract guru for a long time with Atlanta. They had another GM that did personnel. We hired him under Shanahan as a cap guru. We had another GM doing personnel.

He has only been a cap specialist since taking "GM" jobs...

Found this article when he was originally hired in 2008:

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_9100102

It does mention he had experience with player evaulation in Atlanta, and that he was not the salary cap manager in Denver... But, I'm with you. My impression was always that he was a cap guy. Whatever. None of us really know what the hell is going on behind the scenes anyway.

BroncoInferno
12-29-2010, 10:36 AM
and still is. he is directing all player personnel and scouting efforts for the team currently, has he did last year as well. i know a lot of people dont want to admit it, but the drafts havent been that bad. aside from smith/quinn, the rest of the guys have looked good and worthy of being selected, though none of them scream OMG GREAT PICK, none are true busts either.

Are you Xanders' brother or something? Yeah, we get it, he hasn't had a chance to prove himself. Neither has Kaylore. Should he be a GM candidate as well? Most of us would prefer someone who has demonstrated competency running a successful player personnel department, not someone with more limited experience who might be good.

tsiguy96
12-29-2010, 10:45 AM
Are you Xanders' brother or something? Yeah, we get it, he hasn't had a chance to prove himself. Neither has Kaylore. Should he be a GM candidate as well? Most of us would prefer someone who has demonstrated competency running a successful player personnel department, not someone with more limited experience who might be good.

no, just tired of the typical OM reaction to anything at all. FIRE HIM! LET THE HEADS ROLL!

Hamrob
12-29-2010, 10:51 AM
If Elway/Xanders concentrate on building the defense and hire a coach to groom Tim Tebow...they will do very, very well!!!

If Elway/Xanders try to start any other QB than Tebow or if they try to trade Tebow...they will fail. Why, because whoever they play at QB will not be TEBOW. For example, if they try to get Luck...they will have to trade away our future on defense to do it. That will have fans irrate. And, if they bring in a kid like Locker or Mallet..fans will go nuts about the wasted picks.

The key to Elway/Xanders success will be to ride the Tebow train to success. If (and only then) Tebow shows next season that he doesn't have the tools to make it in the NFL...then, Elway/Xanders could make a switch.

Really, they have nothing to lose...next year is a rebuilding year anyway. They need to get on the Tebow Train and ride that baby as far as it will take them...while at the same time...they're working to rebuild our defense and running game.

Mile High Shack
12-29-2010, 11:04 AM
It's clear what happened here, Bowlen and Ellis were discussing what to do about the current FO disaster just as someone walked by looked at the trophy case and sang out "This one is for John" recalling the great memory of 12 years ago. Pat's ears purked up, a half smile crossed his face and he said, " That's it! I'll make John the boss.....".

obviously that was tongue in cheek....but Elway has wanted to get into the ownership and FO for the Broncos for a long, long time.

baja
12-29-2010, 11:23 AM
obviously that was tongue in cheek....but Elway has wanted to get into the ownership and FO for the Broncos for a long, long time.

John has many fine qualities to be sure, rather or not they translate into a top FO guy is an unknown. Are you ready to try some more unknowns as a solution to what ails the Broncos?

jhns
12-29-2010, 11:34 AM
Found this article when he was originally hired in 2008:

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_9100102

It does mention he had experience with player evaulation in Atlanta, and that he was not the salary cap manager in Denver... But, I'm with you. My impression was always that he was a cap guy. Whatever. None of us really know what the hell is going on behind the scenes anyway.

Let's just put it this way. His first job as an actual GM came under McDaniels. We are going through our worst years ever in this time.

I would just prefer that we bring in an established GM that has proven he can run a team. I really don't want to see the Broncos make the exact same mistake of having way too little experience in the front office again.

Drek
12-29-2010, 11:40 AM
The only reasons I'd be ok with Xanders as GM:

1. it means Kieth Kidd and Matt Russell are sticking around.

2. We hired a very good coach who will play an equal role to Xanders in the decision making process. True equals, not the McDaniels/Xanders one is far more equal than the other set up.

Even then I'm not sure. Xanders was all aboard the McD love fest right up until he got canned and now he's glad handing every local media type telling him how mean ol' Joshie didn't give him any say and made all the bad trades against Xander's wishes.

Ray Finkle
12-29-2010, 12:08 PM
The only reasons I'd be ok with Xanders as GM:

1. it means Kieth Kidd and Matt Russell are sticking around.

2. We hired a very good coach who will play an equal role to Xanders in the decision making process. True equals, not the McDaniels/Xanders one is far more equal than the other set up.

Even then I'm not sure. Xanders was all aboard the McD love fest right up until he got canned and now he's glad handing every local media type telling him how mean ol' Joshie didn't give him any say and made all the bad trades against Xander's wishes.

I like Russell but am not a fan of Kidd.

Drek
12-29-2010, 12:12 PM
I like Russell but am not a fan of Kidd.

Why not?

He's the overall director of player personnel evals and prior to that was responsible for our NFL scouting when we picked up Goodman, Dawkins, Lloyd, Haggan, etc.. I'd be surprised if he wasn't involved in us acquiring Hunter and Vickerson this year as well.

Our outside acquisitions have generally gone pretty damn well under both Kidd and Russell. We seem to identify value very well.

Ray Finkle
12-29-2010, 12:32 PM
Why not?

He's the overall director of player personnel evals and prior to that was responsible for our NFL scouting when we picked up Goodman, Dawkins, Lloyd, Haggan, etc.. I'd be surprised if he wasn't involved in us acquiring Hunter and Vickerson this year as well.

Our outside acquisitions have generally gone pretty damn well under both Kidd and Russell. We seem to identify value very well.

just things he would write while at ESPN....for every Goodman, et al, there have been the Jones, Fields and others.

Drek
12-29-2010, 12:34 PM
just things he would write while at ESPN....for every Goodman, et al, there have been the Jones, Fields and others.

Fewer of the later than the former though. And I wouldn't consider Fields a bad signing. He was cheap and he filled a gap at least temporarily. Better than nothing at all for NT.

Mile High Shack
12-29-2010, 12:58 PM
John has many fine qualities to be sure, rather or not they translate into a top FO guy is an unknown. Are you ready to try some more unknowns as a solution to what ails the Broncos?

going off what you said, you made it sound like Bowlen did this on a whim, I think Elway has wanted to do this for a long, long time, not just recently.

I'm not sure how Xanders is on his own, so we'll see, I'm not going to automatically assume defeat

baja
12-29-2010, 01:43 PM
going off what you said, you made it sound like Bowlen did this on a whim, I think Elway has wanted to do this for a long, long time, not just recently.

I'm not sure how Xanders is on his own, so we'll see,<b> I'm not going to automatically assume defeat

Me neither. The flavor is sour at Dove Valley IMO but we will see.

24champ
12-29-2010, 02:14 PM
just things he would write while at ESPN....for every Goodman, et al, there have been the Jones, Fields and others.

Yes that is true, but keep in mind there's going to be some misses among some of the brightest personnel guys in the business. I don't know if I would consider Kidd and Russel among the brightest in the business, but they show some good qualities when it comes to evaluating NFL talent.

Ray Finkle
12-29-2010, 02:21 PM
Yes that is true, but keep in mind there's going to be some misses among some of the brightest personnel guys in the business. I don't know if I would consider Kidd and Russel among the brightest in the business, but they show some good qualities when it comes to evaluating NFL talent.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt...I wonder how much they had a hand in the last draft.

Hamrob
12-29-2010, 02:51 PM
Just fyi, the Pats are probably the best team in the league this year and are set up for the future with a huge haul of upcoming draft picks. I'll take some of that "stink".TonyR...if you've been a Broncos fan for a while...you'd know that we own the Pats!

Who are we?

The DENVER BRONCOS!

If you want that Pats stink...then take a hike!!!

TonyR
12-29-2010, 03:04 PM
...if you've been a Broncos fan for a while...you'd know that we own the Pats!
...
If you want that Pats stink...then take a hike!!!

The fact that we've beat them more than they've beat us is fairly meaningless. They're a considerably better team than we are and have been for several years. That's the reason you hate them so much. It's understandable to hate them, but other than the overblown cheating scandal if you don't respect them then I don't know what to tell you. I want to win, not cling to some "we are the Broncos" meme that you probably can't even define.

Drek
12-29-2010, 03:28 PM
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt...I wonder how much they had a hand in the last draft.

I would assume they ranked the prospects and made projections on where they'd be taken at. McDaniels and Xanders took over from there.

The strength of our draft? Knowing we could trade back for Thomas, waiting for guys like Walton and Decker, grabbing a late round scouting find like Thompson.

All scouting/ranking decisions. The trade themselves weren't great negotiating, they just put us in position to grab guys where the scouting staff had them ranked, not before for too much value or not missing out on them because we didn't gauge other team's values on them accurately.

As far as I see it Kidd and Russell are 2/2 as far as projecting when talent is going to come off the board in the draft. That is an invaluable skill that we shouldn't be looking to break up.

Karenin
12-29-2010, 04:28 PM
TonyR...if you've been a Broncos fan for a while...you'd know that we own the Pats!

Who are we?

The DENVER BRONCOS!

If you want that Pats stink...then take a hike!!!

Jesus Christ you are such a ****ing retard. I wonder if the Patriots would trade their 3 Super Bowls in the last decade, along with being a perennial contender, for the Broncos "success" in beating them in a few games. Do you think before you post?

Hamrob
12-29-2010, 05:27 PM
Jesus Christ you are such a ****ing retard. I wonder if the Patriots would trade their 3 Super Bowls in the last decade, along with being a perennial contender, for the Broncos "success" in beating them in a few games. Do you think before you post?If you like the Patriots so much...go be a Patriots fan, idiot!!!

The Denver Broncos are our own Organization who have been to 6 Superbowls and won 2 World Championships. What we need...isn't the flipping Patriots/Josh McDaniels Way....it's Broncomania. We need better direction from people who care about what it means to be the Denver Broncos.

With Elway back in the fold and Bowlen realizing what a huge disaster Josh McDaniels was....this team can finally move forward!

Drek
12-29-2010, 06:20 PM
If you like the Patriots so much...go be a Patriots fan, idiot!!!

The Denver Broncos are our own Organization who have been to 6 Superbowls and won 2 World Championships. What we need...isn't the flipping Patriots/Josh McDaniels Way....it's Broncomania. We need better direction from people who care about what it means to be the Denver Broncos.

With Elway back in the fold and Bowlen realizing what a huge disaster Josh McDaniels was....this team can finally move forward!

What we need is a Broncos organization that isn't afraid to borrow the best ideas from all the best organizations.

Indy does a great job identifying when to keep a guy and when to let him walk. They're almost always letting guys go at most a year or two before they fall apart and the guys they give big money two generally are elite players for the majority of the contract. Their big money guys? Predominantly people the Colts drafted early. They hit their early picks out of the park pretty often.

Philly for example does a great job of having a clear vision of the system on defense and despite some serious loss of both players and coaches their defense continues to truck along at a high level because their player personnel guys know how to find the right fits to plug and play at most positions. They're masters of FA pickups and depth acquisition.

Pittsburgh has shown an amazing ability for developing late rounders or UDFAs into big pick ups on the defensive side of the football as well.

Sean Peyton's offense in New Orleans is really just Drew Brees and a bunch of JAGs. Their best WR is a 7th round pick. He knows his system and he knows what fits his system, so he drafts it like no one's business.

To a similar extent New England knows the value of draft pick investment. Not so much picking the right players, though they do well there most of the time, but in how to make deals for future pick value that matures into additional funds they can trade for even more value. Investing in draft pick futures is the safest venture in the NFL yet the Patriots are the only team who've realized this and taken full advantage of this market discrepancy.

What I want is a Broncos organization that utilizes this discrepancy the Pats live off of, hit home runs on their top draft choices like the Colts typically do, build depth into all layers of the team like the Eagles, sign and develop late rounders and UDFAs through the practice squad and STs like the Steelers, and find immediate help system steals in later rounds like the Saints.

Instead of having a Broncos first, Broncos last xenophobic mindset the Broncos should be looking to copy what works about these most successful teams, cutting out what doesn't.

Abqbronco
12-29-2010, 06:25 PM
Sigh. Not very excited about this. I kept holding out hope that they would get a real GM, but the very fact that Xanders has been interviewing so much tells us all we need to know. Granted - maybe Xanders knows what the hell he is doing and will do a really great job... but it's tough to pin our hopes on a guy who was so closely tied to the current failure.

As for Elway - well, let's just say the closest comparison I can think of is Micheal Jordan being involved with the Charlotte Bobcats, and that has not worked out too well. I can't imagine Elway being willing to put in the time that some of these dedicated football men do.

Oh well - what the hell am I going to do? I hope it works out.

Or Jerry West with the Lakers...

Hamrob
12-29-2010, 06:40 PM
What we need is a Broncos organization that isn't afraid to borrow the best ideas from all the best organizations.

Indy does a great job identifying when to keep a guy and when to let him walk. They're almost always letting guys go at most a year or two before they fall apart and the guys they give big money two generally are elite players for the majority of the contract. Their big money guys? Predominantly people the Colts drafted early. They hit their early picks out of the park pretty often.

Philly for example does a great job of having a clear vision of the system on defense and despite some serious loss of both players and coaches their defense continues to truck along at a high level because their player personnel guys know how to find the right fits to plug and play at most positions. They're masters of FA pickups and depth acquisition.

Pittsburgh has shown an amazing ability for developing late rounders or UDFAs into big pick ups on the defensive side of the football as well.

Sean Peyton's offense in New Orleans is really just Drew Brees and a bunch of JAGs. Their best WR is a 7th round pick. He knows his system and he knows what fits his system, so he drafts it like no one's business.

To a similar extent New England knows the value of draft pick investment. Not so much picking the right players, though they do well there most of the time, but in how to make deals for future pick value that matures into additional funds they can trade for even more value. Investing in draft pick futures is the safest venture in the NFL yet the Patriots are the only team who've realized this and taken full advantage of this market discrepancy.

What I want is a Broncos organization that utilizes this discrepancy the Pats live off of, hit home runs on their top draft choices like the Colts typically do, build depth into all layers of the team like the Eagles, sign and develop late rounders and UDFAs through the practice squad and STs like the Steelers, and find immediate help system steals in later rounds like the Saints.

Instead of having a Broncos first, Broncos last xenophobic mindset the Broncos should be looking to copy what works about these most successful teams, cutting out what doesn't.I agree. We should be our own organization and make decisions that best fit our organization. Not try to be the carbon copy of another team.

The Pats draft well...great...let's continue that trend (last years draft was great). Let's also find a franchise QB like Brady...who knows maybe that's Tebow. And, finally, lets get a coach like Belicheck.

Other than that, let's take a look at the Steelers, Ravens, Bears, Eagles and even the Chargers to see what they're doing to field great defenses. Or better yet...let's take a look at what made the Denver Broncos such a great defense in the 70's and 80's. That might help.

It starts with a franchise QB and hosses in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

Gutless Drunk
12-30-2010, 02:10 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d4cdcd/article/improving-offense-earns-bears-newfound-respect?module=HP_cp2


"Elway could have big role with Broncos

Everything I hear in regard to the Broncos' GM search leads me to believe that John Elway's role there will be much more than merely cosmetic. Several league sources have indicated that Elway is in line for a top position with the club, one in which he could hold the power to settle ties between the next coach and the personnel department and be near the top of the decision-making process.


If so, history would indicate putting a star player with no former personnel training into such a role would be a guarantee for disaster. The Broncos could still bring in someone else with more front-office experience to join the mix, but Elway obviously is a huge name and a massive presence in Denver, and given his tight relationship with ownership, that could create some complicated dynamics to say the least.

I also continue to hear that Brian Xanders, Denver's current general manager, is well positioned to remain in a prominent role and that his meetings with Elway have been very positive. Xanders is well versed in the CBA, contracts and dealing with agents -- some of the many things with which Elway has zero experience. Elway's role would also likely make Gary Kubiak even more of a favorite to resurface there, as it seems a near certainty he will not be back with the Texans.

Kubiak and Elway both joined the Broncos as players in 1983, spending their careers together. The glowing endorsements Kubiak has given recently to Elway in the media, and his effusive praise of Broncos rookie quarterback Tim Tebow following a loss to Denver on Sunday, did not go unnoticed in league circles, either.

"I thought for a minute there the postgame news conference was his first interview for the Broncos job," one NFL general manager quipped."



"I also would not be surprised to see the Browns take a run at Broncos offensive coordinator Mike McCoy. McCoy's role in Denver could change given the uncertainty at head coach, and if the Browns go with a defensive coach like Fox (or Leslie Frazier), as many expect, then Mike Holmgren could prefer a younger offensive mind like McCoy, to work with him on the offensive side. McCoy also has strong ties to the Panthers, and I could see him getting serious consideration there for the head coaching job. ..."

TonyR
12-30-2010, 02:17 PM
The Broncos could still bring in someone else with more front-office experience to join the mix, but Elway obviously is a huge name and a massive presence in Denver, and given his tight relationship with ownership, that could create some complicated dynamics to say the least.

Nobody's been listening, of course, but I've been saying this for a while now. No big name GM candidate will come to Denver with Elway in such a role. Which is why Xanders, or someone like him, is what we're going get. Sorry, folks.

Rohirrim
12-30-2010, 02:25 PM
From what has been posted from the Houston press, I would say it's more likely that Kubes stays in Houston and brings in Wade Phillips as DC. Given the chummy relationship Elway seems to have with Harbaugh, I'm guessing he's the next HC in Denver.

http://uspresswire.com/image/thumb/250-250/4962518.jpg

mikey555
12-30-2010, 02:50 PM
Actually that would be a nice surprise... and a good D coordinator would be nice.

baja
12-30-2010, 02:55 PM
One thing for sure is if selling tickets are the issue this will surly help that in the short run.

We might as well go all out;

DC = Al Wilson

OC = Rod Smith

LB coach = Mecklenburg

D line Coach = Paul Smith

Secondary coach = Louis Wright

O line coach = Gary Zimmerman

Receivers Coach = Haven Moses

TE Coach = Shannon Sharpe

Running Backs Coach = Terrell Davis

Special Teams Coach = Rick Upchurch

Trainer = Bill Romanowski

Rohirrim
12-30-2010, 03:06 PM
If Harbaugh was the pick, he'd probably bring in Vic Fangio to run the D and Ron Turner to run the O. And probably Brian Polian to run STs.

Drek
12-30-2010, 03:30 PM
Everything I hear in regard to the Broncos' GM search leads me to believe that John Elway's role there will be much more than merely cosmetic. Several league sources have indicated that Elway is in line for a top position with the club, one in which he could hold the power to settle ties between the next coach and the personnel department and be near the top of the decision-making process.

To me this clarifies nothing. Will he actively be involved in those decisions or is he going to play the role of ownership in any other organization with split GM and HC powers?

Any club that has a fully enfranchised GM and HC need a tie breaker. That tie breaker is the owner or his representative. Over the last two years that representative here has been Ellis who apparently put in place an "all ties go to Josh" rule early on and never looked back.

Now if instead of Ellis doing that we'll have Elway that to me is nothing but a positive, because I don't think Ellis knows **** other than marketing and making a coin off the fan base. I'm sure the best personnel guys would see it the same way as its much easier to come away with a mutually agreeable decision when the tie breaker has at least some practical knowledge of NFL level football.

If Elway is saying "I like this guy, draft him" we're in trouble. If he's the guy who listens to each argument on who to draft and then breaks the tie we could do quite well with that arrangement.

Bowlen let Mike Shanahan play owner on his dime for over a decade. He's let Ellis do it for two years now. If Bowlen doesn't want that role why not give Elway a stab at it?

24champ
01-05-2011, 01:15 PM
Or Jerry West with the Lakers...

Yeah but Jerry West worked his way up with the Lakers to get to the position as the Executive. Same with Ozzie Newsome.

This case isn't the same with Elway, and Xanders really doesn't have quality scouting resume that others around the league had. Now we're off to interviewing Gregg freaking Williams and Feewell? :nono:

gyldenlove
01-05-2011, 01:44 PM
I don't like this one bit, we have 3 senior guys now, one is a beancounter (Ellis), one is a QB (Elway) and one has no experience making management decisions (Xanders). I can't believe that the rebuilding of the Denver Broncos is left up to an accountant, a football player and a minion. I hope they do well, I really do, but I don't see how it will happen.

Ellis was essentially the guy who a few months after Bowlen firing Shanahan because he wanted to seperate GM and HC handed Josh Mcdaniels the GM job. I am still not sure if Ellis is just dumb or if he was desperate to prevent the team from hiring a strong GM who could usurp some of his power.

Xanders was an assistant in charge of spreadsheets in Atlanta, learned the pro game under Harold Richardson and Rich Mckay, which is never a good start to anything. He was given the GM position in what can accurately be described as a debacle and for reasons unknown he seems to have somehow lucked into keeping it despite the fact he would never land a GM job if he had to interview for it with other candidates.

I loves me some John Elway, he is the reason I am a fan of this team, but he is unqualified for his new job. I really doubt he lasts the season, let alone the offseason.

What the team needs is 1 guy who has strong scouting experience, who has a vision and who can build a roster. We now have 3 guys, and it looks like not a single one of them has the qualifications we need.

Kaylore
01-05-2011, 02:11 PM
I have no idea. None. So I won't vote until it's clear three years from now. Then I'll bump the thread and pick the right choice.