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bronco0608
12-27-2010, 11:20 PM
Pat Bowlen's broke! He is only the 937th richest man in the world!!


For the "Pat is broke" crowd:

Net Worth: $1.0 bil Fortune: NA
Source: Denver Broncos
Age: 66
Country Of Citizenship: United States
Residence: Denver, Colorado
Education: NA
Marital Status: Married, 7 children fo real? do it pat, baby! Hilarious!

Wisconsin oilman bought majority stake in pro football's Denver Broncos in 1984 for $78 million; nabbed rest of team with family a year later. Dominated football in the late 1990s, winning back-to-back Super Bowls. Team has lost luster recently; Bowlen fired legendary coach Mike Shanahan last year. Fitness guru has completed Ironman Triathlon, several marathons.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/billionaires-2010_Patrick-Bowlen-family_ACGS.html

So the question has to be asked, whats a couple of million to a billionaire? Like 20gs to a millionaire? Correct comparison, or no? Math guys needed.

bronco0608
12-27-2010, 11:23 PM
If being the 937th richest man in the world is broke, I wanna be that kind of broke!

We can't afford an established coach! Pat is broke!

L
M
A
O

NFLBRONCO
12-27-2010, 11:25 PM
I'm not worried about his money just his brains these days. Next few weeks will tell me which way we are going in the near future. If money isn't an issue no excuse not to right the ship with a grand slam hire.

bronco0608
12-27-2010, 11:30 PM
Holy snizzel, the Broncos revenue is 212 million a year!! Yet we are only paying out 106 million in player expenses! Where is the the other 106 million going??? GM, Coaches, Staff, Stadium Operations?

What's his cut at the end 70 mill?

Pat's broke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I heard on the light rail right off the orangemane stop!! Everyone is saying it!!

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=170><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=spaced>-Yr Value Chg.</TD><TD class=spaced align=right>2%</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=spaced>Ann. Value Chg. <SUP>2</SUP></TD><TD class=spaced align=right>12%</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=spaced>Debt/Value <SUP>3</SUP></TD><TD class=spaced align=right>20%</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=spaced>Revenue <SUP>4</SUP></TD><TD class=spaced align=right>$212 mil</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=spaced noWrap>Operating Income <SUP>5</SUP></TD><TD class=spaced noWrap align=right>$15.9 mil
</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=spaced>Player Expenses <SUP>6</SUP></TD><TD class=spaced align=right>$127 mil</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=spaced>Gate Receipts <SUP>7</SUP></TD><TD class=spaced align=right>$55 mil</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Denver-Broncos_308211.html

bronco0608
12-27-2010, 11:33 PM
We are only the 6th richest franchise in the NFL??? BRRRROOOOKKKEEE!

Everyone is saying it!!

NFL Team Valuations
#6 Denver Broncos
09.13.07, 6:00 PM ET

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Denver-Broncos_308211.html

worm
12-27-2010, 11:33 PM
Forbes also says the Broncos are worth 1.08b. So Bowlen actually must be debt .08b!


http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2010/08/23/daily49.html

The NFL's regular season hasn't even begun yet, but the Denver Broncos have already slipped in one key statistic: team value.

Forbes, in its latest calculation of the worth of National Football League teams, figures that the Broncos have lost 3 percent of their value over the last year.

At an estimated team value of $1.081 billion, the Broncos rank No. 10 among all 32 NFL teams, Forbes says.

That 3 percent value dip compares to the Broncos' average annual value increase of 11 percent since Pat Bowlen paid $78 million for the team in 1984.

"Team value" is based on each team's current stadium deal without deducting for team debt other than stadium debt.

Despite the small dip in value, the Broncos have not slipped in Forbes' team-value standings; they were No. 10 last year as well.

For 2009, Forbes figures the Broncos received revenue of $250 million, had operating income of $22 million, had player expenses of $142 million and gate receipts of $60 million.

"Rumors persist that Broncos owner Pat Bowlen is looking for investors or may even consider selling the team," Forbes says. "... Although the team has among the most loyal fans in the NFL, and have sold out general seating at Invesco Field since it opened in 2001, Bowlen has struggled to sell out the luxury suite and club seat inventory and carries $150 million of stadium debt."

Overall, 21 of the NFL's 32 teams lost value year over year in the latest Forbes report. NFL teams


Read more: Denver Broncos a bit less valuable, Forbes says | Denver Business Journal

footstepsfrom#27
12-27-2010, 11:33 PM
I don't know how many times I need to state this, but hard assets (what his $1 billion is based on, the ownership of the team) is not the same as liquidity, ie, something that can be turned into capital. Nobody has ever said Bowlen is broke, only that his finances are shrouded in secrecy and deliberately so, that the court records in the lawsuit with Kaiser revealed a shockingly bad set of terms he was forced to accept when he made the deal to buy the Broncos based largely on credit and future earnings, and the fact that the terms of that deal have handicapped him in terms of his options and flexibility.

You don't understand finance if you think Bowlen has a billion dollars in his pocket.

DivineBronco
12-27-2010, 11:54 PM
I don't know how many times I need to state this, but hard assets (what his $1 billion is based on, the ownership of the team) is not the same as liquidity, ie, something that can be turned into capital. Nobody has ever said Bowlen is broke, only that his finances are shrouded in secrecy and deliberately so, that the court records in the lawsuit with Kaiser revealed a shockingly bad set of terms he was forced to accept when he made the deal to buy the Broncos based largely on credit and future earnings, and the fact that the terms of that deal have handicapped him in terms of his options and flexibility.

You don't understand finance if you think Bowlen has a billion dollars in his pocket.

and just as another poster stated money is not the issue it is the fact that he has a disease which will never get better only worse

bronco0608
12-27-2010, 11:55 PM
Ok, how much do you think an NFL owner nets at the end of a season. Does he make 5 million? 10 million?

Do you honestly think a player like Elvis Dummervil makes more than the owner?

If 56% of the revenue goes to the players, what is 44% minus operation costs?

I'm thinking Pat is banking 40 to 50 mill a year off this team. Off base? show me.

In the end, the owner, at least, is making double what his highest paid player is. No? Has to be.

This year, we spent a 106 mill on players, some teams are at 160 mill. Think about it. What revenue streams do they have that we dont?

How many teams have been sold over the past 10 years? I don't know, im asking you. I think none,other than estate sales where the beneficiary doesn't want the team. If teams are bleeding money, owners would we getting out left and right. That is not happening.

These owners are banking. BANKING!

tsiguy96
12-27-2010, 11:57 PM
and just as another poster stated money is not the issue it is the fact that he has a disease which will never get better only worse

which 'disease' are you referring to? the one you guys speculate he has, and thus he has?

bronco0608
12-27-2010, 11:58 PM
You don't understand finance if you think Bowlen has a billion dollars in his pocket.

Pat has owned this team for 27 years. If he made, at the min, 20 mill a year after taxes, thats 540 million plus interest. I saw a graph where he made 49 mill in year when we didn't even go the playoffs!

Forbes is privy to team wealth, but not individual wealth. You think they have his bank account statements? Please, Pat is rolling in the dough. You are naive to think otherwise.

bronco0608
12-28-2010, 12:01 AM
Oh, and for the drunked basterdness going on, how many fitness gurus who have completed Ironman Triathlons and several marathons at AGE 60 while hitting the bottle?

You guys know nothing about Pat Bowlen. NOTHING!

Killericon
12-28-2010, 12:11 AM
Fitness guru has completed Ironman Triathlon

Holy ****.

footstepsfrom#27
12-28-2010, 12:11 AM
Pat has owned this team for 27 years. If he made, at the min, 20 mill a year after taxes, thats 540 million plus interest. I saw a graph where he made 49 mill in year when we didn't even go the playoffs!

Forbes is privy to team wealth, but not individual wealth. You think they have his bank account statements? Please, Pat is rolling in the dough. You are naive to think otherwise.
I have read the entire report on Pat Bowlens court documents in the Kaiser lawsuit which opens formerly secret financial records and terms of the sale of this franchise. Unless you have done this also, you are speaking from ignorance. I reiterate my point; the hard asset value of this team has nothing to do with Pat Bowlen's liquidity, and that's what we're talking about here when we're talking about his ability to finance contract, etc...liquidity. Until he sells the team, Pat has nowhere near the kind of liquid assets you think he does, and even when he sells, he's not going to get a billion in cash. Meaningless speculation like suggesting he made $20 million a year after taxes is based on your wild eyed imagination, not cold financial facts.

The FACT is, Bowlen made a great personal purchase and a horrible business deal when he got forced into the terms he accepted to buy the team in the beginning, and if you'd been paying attention to the stadium issue, you'd know that Bowlen needed it in order to remain solvent in the NFL market. But Bowlen does not own all his revenue because he used the promise of future earnings to leverage the deal in the first place.

Do some real research and stop trying to discuss something you don't know anything about as if you do. Forbes report has nothing to do with how financially able he is to fund operations just because the team itself is valued at a billion dollars.

Lev Vyvanse
12-28-2010, 12:12 AM
Only one team is publicly owned and thus has an open ledger. That teams profit is between 10-20mil. It's crazy players are making about as much as owners.

footstepsfrom#27
12-28-2010, 12:12 AM
Oh, and for the drunked basterdness going on, how many fitness gurus who have completed Ironman Triathlons and several marathons at AGE 60 while hitting the bottle?

You guys know nothing about Pat Bowlen. NOTHING!
Bowlen hasn't competed in triathalons in a long time, and that has zero to do with his physical/mental capacity now.

bronco0608
12-28-2010, 12:18 AM
Some economist explain this statement:

For 2009, Forbes figures the Broncos received revenue of $250 million, had operating income of $22 million, had player expenses of $142 million and gate receipts of $60 million.

Does this mean pat banked 310 million in revenue (250 million plus 60 million in gate receipts = 310 mill in revenue minus 142 million in player revenues + 22 million in operartin income? for a difference of 310 million minus 164 million? Is that right?

Obviously this is incorrect. Operating income is 22 million, not an expense.

Someone clear this up

footstepsfrom#27
12-28-2010, 12:29 AM
Some economist explain this statement:

For 2009, Forbes figures the Broncos received revenue of $250 million, had operating income of $22 million, had player expenses of $142 million and gate receipts of $60 million.

Does this mean pat banked 310 million in revenue (250 million plus 60 million in gate receipts = 310 mill in revenue minus 142 million in player revenues + 22 million in operartin income? for a difference of 310 million minus 164 million? Is that right?
No it's not, and you don't need an economist, you need to understand basic finance. The only figure that's inportant on that list is revenue of $250 million. That's their total revenue, and it matters not how you break that down into gate receipts, etc...the only figure in the debit column I see listed is player expenditures of $142 million. That's only part of their overhead...obviously. Total revenues mean little by itself. You need to know what net revenue was after all overhead expenses, and from what you listed here, it's not possible to determine that. Even if you did, that doesn't tell us what he's still paying in terms of the super high interest payments he was making to the people he bought the franchise from.

Bowlen has hidden his corporate assets well behind a veil of secrecy that extends across multiple states where corporate subsidiaries, holding companies and apparently even family trusts hold shares of stock in the Broncos. He's done this for a reason...he doesn't want you or me or anyone else to understand his financial dealings. The fact that he's suddenly more frugal now than he was under Shanahan in the FA market is a clue, but it's only that.

Why you're worried about this now...I can only guess. I'd rather talk about Tebow.

bronco0608
12-28-2010, 12:39 AM
Ok, the richest franchise in football nets 90 mill a year with the highest payroll. A payroll 30 to 50 million higher than the Broncos.

Really, think about it.

While the Cowboys remained the most valuable franchise, the most profitable (and second most valuable) is the Washington Redskins. The franchise saw operating income, a barometer for profitability, at $90.3 million. The Redskins are followed by the Patriots ($70.9 million), Buccaneers ($68.9 million), and Colts ($55.9 million).

footstepsfrom#27
12-28-2010, 12:46 AM
Really, think about it.
No you think about it. I'm done arguing with people who won't do the research to understand what the available facts are when it's easier to just quote something in Forbes.

enjolras
12-28-2010, 01:00 AM
No it's not, and you don't need an economist, you need to understand basic finance. The only figure that's inportant on that list is revenue of $250 million.

Not when there is an operating-income number of $22M. That's generally income before interest and taxes. So for better or worse Forbes thinks the team is operating at a $22M a year profit. It's not a huge profit by any stretch and not all of it goes to Bowlen (I have no idea what the ownership structure looks like).

It's a pretty thin margin really and if Pat has anything else dragging on his income he could very easily be negative for the year.

Kaylore
12-28-2010, 06:33 AM
It doesn't matter what he's worth, and arguing that he doesn't see all his revenue doesn't change the end fact and that's that Bowlen isn't broke, footsteps. The facts speak for themselves


Firing Shanahan and all his assistants and cleaning house was more expensive than keeping him.
Firing McDaniels early and settling out now was also more expensive than letting him ride another year. In fact he's going to have sunk over ten million alone in head coaching payroll in the next year even if they hire a bargain bin HC.
Kuper, Dumervil and numerous free agent sighnings for multimillion dollar long term deals.
The whole "he can't afford two first round picks" thing was debunked last year. The combined sallaries of Thomas and Tebow are more than what a single first round pick would have been where we were originally slotted to pick.


Also I don't believe your story that a "tour guide" at Dove Valley told you he had amnesia or whatever. They don't have tour guides at Dove Valley. There isn't a position in the Broncos organization. I think you made up that story to give your theory credibility.

Do I believe Bowlen is feeling the financial hit in the economy? Of course. His team has played bad so attendance is down. Roster turnover and a bad economy means people afford less and are less willing to be buy jerseys. Revenue is down and his value has dropped from 6th to 10th. But this BS crap about him being "broke" has never been substantiated by anyone anywhere except you. And all the evidence shows that he's not making decisions to save his money.

I believe he fired Shanahan because he felt he needed fresh ideas to win. I believe he fired McDaniels because his record was bad and his plan wasn't working. I believe he hired John Elway because he believes he can help him win. I think Bowlen wants to win because winning franchises make more money than losing ones. I think his problems aren't with his memory and his comments of the SB memories fading from memory weren't a peek into his medical condition, as only a group of posters on the mane would be dense enough to deduce, but a reference to how he was tired of living in the past.

Does he have a drinking problem? Yes. Is his business model for the team antiquated? Yes. That doesn't make him broke with Alzheimer's.

colonelbeef
12-28-2010, 06:45 AM
net worth and actual liquidity are two entirely separate things.

Man-Goblin
12-28-2010, 06:50 AM
Money can't buy you love...

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2010/1212/20101212__BroncosBowlen121210~p1.jpg

Missouribronc
12-28-2010, 06:51 AM
Money can't buy you love...

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2010/1212/20101212__BroncosBowlen121210~p1.jpg

I would beg to differ:

http://www.mypassionisfootball.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/PatBowlen.jpg

Big pimpin'

Tombstone RJ
12-28-2010, 07:47 AM
Pat Bowlen's broke! He is only the 937th richest man in the world!!


For the "Pat is broke" crowd:

Net Worth: $1.0 bil Fortune: NA
Source: Denver Broncos
Age: 66
Country Of Citizenship: United States
Residence: Denver, Colorado
Education: NA
Marital Status: Married, 7 children fo real? do it pat, baby! Hilarious!

Wisconsin oilman bought majority stake in pro football's Denver Broncos in 1984 for $78 million; nabbed rest of team with family a year later. Dominated football in the late 1990s, winning back-to-back Super Bowls. Team has lost luster recently; Bowlen fired legendary coach Mike Shanahan last year. Fitness guru has completed Ironman Triathlon, several marathons.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/billionaires-2010_Patrick-Bowlen-family_ACGS.html

So the question has to be asked, whats a couple of million to a billionaire? Like 20gs to a millionaire? Correct comparison, or no? Math guys needed.

I thought Bowlen initially paid $25m

Mile High Shack
12-28-2010, 08:02 AM
I for one am getting quite sick of all the reports of Pat Bowlen being a blabbering idiot who has lost his mind and needs diapers and a drool cup.

Step up and provide real proof or shut the hell up

ayjackson
12-28-2010, 09:16 AM
I guess if the Broncos are worth $1.1b and Bowlen's worth $1.0b, then Pat's wealth outside of his Broncos ownership is a sh1t-show. Don't blame him for trying to make a fair return from the team. (Which he should accomplish under the salary cap system, unless he's paying three or four coaching staffs at once :).)

enjolras
12-28-2010, 10:35 AM
net worth and actual liquidity are two entirely separate things.

Although a high net worth gives you a lot of vehicles for liquidity. If he needs cash, he'll have no trouble finding it.

snowspot66
12-28-2010, 10:41 AM
Even if the terms of him buying the team were horrible I have a hard time believing some of that financial difficulty hasn't by reduced or eliminated by now. It has been 27 years after all and his investment has a, what, 1000% increase in value over that time period?

bendog
12-28-2010, 10:43 AM
He's not broke, but if Forbes figures have any basis, and they do, Den has the lowest or close to lowest yearly profit available for football operations. The good news is that after the cba gets done, revenue sharing will get done too.

As for his wits, I never thought he had much going for himself in the first place, beyond an inheritance and getting into a business where it was impossible to lose money until these idiots started building new stadiums.

snowspot66
12-28-2010, 10:44 AM
He's not broke, but if Forbes figures have any basis, and they do, Den has the lowest or close to lowest yearly profit available for football operations. The good news is that after the cba gets done, revenue sharing will get done too.

I have a feeling the reduced spending has more to do with Pat getting sick of high priced FA that do **** for the team and knowledge of the impending labor issues a couple years before it became big news.

bendog
12-28-2010, 10:50 AM
I have a feeling the reduced spending has more to do with Pat getting sick of high priced FA that do **** for the team and knowledge of the impending labor issues a couple years before it became big news.

If he had any clue that he was going to be cutting payroll in 2010, he wouldn't have signed Shanny to the last extension. You people are just shining yourselves on if you thing Bowlen had any longterm plan for running this team. The joshclusterfck should not be forgotten so quickly.

snowspot66
12-28-2010, 12:44 PM
If he had any clue that he was going to be cutting payroll in 2010, he wouldn't have signed Shanny to the last extension. You people are just shining yourselves on if you thing Bowlen had any longterm plan for running this team. The joshclusterfck should not be forgotten so quickly.

Oh please. We were already trying to reduce payroll just because of the really ****ty FA we had been bringing in for top dollar the entire decade.

maven
12-28-2010, 12:47 PM
I for one am getting quite sick of all the reports of Pat Bowlen being a blabbering idiot who has lost his mind and needs diapers and a drool cup.

Step up and provide real proof or shut the hell up

I agree with this.

Dedhed
12-28-2010, 12:53 PM
I'm not worried about his money just his brains these days.

Hopefully that's exactly why he's brought John on board: to be his brains going forward.

Pat has always been a sage owner, and I think the McDaniels thing really opened his eyes to the idea that he doesn't have the acumen for this anymore.

At least he still seems wise enough to recognize that he isn't smart enough any more.

bendog
12-28-2010, 12:56 PM
Oh please. We were already trying to reduce payroll just because of the really ****ty FA we had been bringing in for top dollar the entire decade.

Of course, he was PLANNING to cut payroll when he resigned Shanny for a lifetime .. that's got to be what was going on becuase if it wasn't .... it'd mean HE DIDN'T HAVE A FRIGGING CLUE.

Gort
12-28-2010, 01:05 PM
I believe he fired Shanahan because he felt he needed fresh ideas to win. I believe he fired McDaniels because his record was bad and his plan wasn't working.

i think we already know the answers to these 2 questions.

Bowlen fired Shanny for insubordination. Bowlen wanted Slowik gone. Shanny said no. Bowlen said "i'm the boss". Shanny said "i'm coach for life". so Bowlen canned Shanny to prove his point and it ended their friendship.

Bowlen fired McD for the 49ers videotaping controversy and how it reflected badly on his personal integrity and the franchise. without that, i think McD survives to next year and gets a chance to turn the team around.

bendog
12-28-2010, 01:10 PM
I don't care who he fired or why, but you're nuts if you think he extended shanny for life WHILE planning to stop bringing in free agents.

bronco militia
12-28-2010, 01:11 PM
http://www.greaterreadingonline.com/storage/dr_evil-1.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1292685950751

DivineBronco
12-28-2010, 02:06 PM
I for one am getting quite sick of all the reports of Pat Bowlen being a blabbering idiot who has lost his mind and needs diapers and a drool cup.

Step up and provide real proof or shut the hell up
no logical person is saying he is even close to that point...but to totally bury your head in the sand and ignore the stories that have been floated out there is silly

Kaylore
12-28-2010, 02:13 PM
no logical person is saying he is even close to that point...but to totally bury your head in the sand and ignore the stories that have been floated out there is silly

No it isnt at all because none of them have come from anything credible other than a comment taken out of context and footsteps made up story. The silly thing is people around here pretending there's something to it. This is completely a construction of people around here too dense to understand what someone was talking about and trying to make sense of their team not being good.

Find me one legit source that even hints he has a memory problem. Please.

Mile High Shack
12-28-2010, 02:17 PM
No it isnt at all because none of them have come from anything credible other than a comment taken out of context and footsteps made up story. The silly thing is people around here pretending there's something to it. This is completely a construction of people around here too dense to understand what someone was talking about and trying to make sense of their team not being good.

Find me one legit source that even hints he has a memory problem. Please.

this

a Woody article where he made a one comment line about growing old and memory problems (what old person doesn't joke about that) has turned in to he is Charlton Heston

DivineBronco
12-28-2010, 03:02 PM
this

a Woody article where he made a one comment line about growing old and memory problems (what old person doesn't joke about that) has turned in to he is Charlton Heston

I think players having conversations with him that he had no memory of a day later could be a key issue as well
I will step away this is clearly too touchy an issue for some people and unless you hear it from pats mouth you wont believe it

Mile High Shack
12-28-2010, 03:17 PM
I think players having conversations with him that he had no memory of a day later could be a key issue as well
I will step away this is clearly too touchy an issue for some people and unless you hear it from pats mouth you wont believe it

where have you heard this?

Kaylore
12-28-2010, 03:21 PM
where have you heard this?

I'm sure he's going to refer to Jay Cutler's lies about talking Bowlen and Bowlen saying Jay didn't talk to him.

bendog
12-28-2010, 03:27 PM
I'm sure he's going to refer to Jay Cutler's lies about talking Bowlen and Bowlen saying Jay didn't talk to him.

how do you opine that it isn't bowlen rather than Lambchop lying. One of them lied, but we have no way to know which one it was. Not that it matters. Personally, I think Bowlen's just rich and lazy and not anymore crazy than Jerry Jones or Jim Irsay

Mile High Shack
12-28-2010, 03:37 PM
how do you opine that it isn't bowlen rather than Lambchop lying. One of them lied, but we have no way to know which one it was. Not that it matters. Personally, I think Bowlen's just rich and lazy and not anymore crazy than Jerry Jones or Jim Irsay

when you have money, you are eccentric ;)

Mile High Shack
12-28-2010, 03:37 PM
I'm sure he's going to refer to Jay Cutler's lies about talking Bowlen and Bowlen saying Jay didn't talk to him.

good lord....you are probably right

Gutless Drunk
12-28-2010, 03:39 PM
The problem with Bowlen is that he will never poke his head out of his undisclosed location and tell people what is going on.
With a dearth of real information people have to speculate and speculation gets out of control.
At least Jerry Jones has the balls to answer his fans frickin' questions.

bendog
12-28-2010, 03:42 PM
good lord....you are probably right

that was my thought as well. Lambchop. I don't really recall Bowlen ever being very "out front." The times he did it, it didn't work out well. The fur coat, the two superbowl after games, the whole triathalon thing. Try training when you have a job too......

Not that he's any worse than another owner, and he did try to win. The games changed a lot from when he bought the franchise ... the money is so much bigger. That was the whole Ed Rendel "wussies" thing. Thirty years ago they'd have played in an empty stadium.

crush17
12-28-2010, 03:42 PM
This board was a lot better when footsteps was on hiatus, or lurking, or whatever.

Mile High Shack
12-28-2010, 03:44 PM
that was my thought as well. Lambchop. I don't really recall Bowlen ever being very "out front." The times he did it, it didn't work out well. The fur coat, the two superbowl after games, the whole triathalon thing. Try training when you have a job too......

Not that he's any worse than another owner, and he did try to win. The games changed a lot from when he bought the franchise ... the money is so much bigger. That was the whole Ed Rendel "wussies" thing. Thirty years ago they'd have played in an empty stadium.

yeah, the whole "This one's for John" speech was suppose to be inspirational but it sounded kinda uncomfortable

then in 1998, that was bad too

I don't think Pat is much for being in the spot light, he never has been, never has needed to really....this is the first real "crisis" he has faced

Missouribronc
12-28-2010, 03:53 PM
The problem with Bowlen is that he will never poke his head out of his undisclosed location and tell people what is going on.
With a dearth of real information people have to speculate and speculation gets out of control.
At least Jerry Jones has the balls to answer his fans frickin' questions.

Jerry Jones doesn't ever say anything either, he just does it by talking a lot about nothing and lying through his teeth.

bendog
12-28-2010, 04:13 PM
yeah, the whole "This one's for John" speech was suppose to be inspirational but it sounded kinda uncomfortable

then in 1998, that was bad too

I don't think Pat is much for being in the spot light, he never has been, never has needed to really....this is the first real "crisis" he has faced

yeah, Bowlen's never done well in public. He's way out of touch with "normal life." But, he's never been an idiot or just plain bat **** crazy like both the Irsays and some of the old time owners like Leonard Tose. I do not think he wasn't paying as close attention to the effect on his bottom line that the last labor agreement between Upshaw and Tagliabobo caused as he should have been. And when he saw that and looked at the way Shanny runs through money and free agents, he realized he'd screwed up giving him the extension, and then with the team collapse, he had a reason to explain firing shanny. And, I'm not bagging on Bowlen for firing Shanny. There's no reason to think Shanny would have done any better here than he's doing in Wash. But there's no way to see that Bowlen realized what was happening in revenue terms when he extended Shanny. Snyder can afford Shanny. Jones too, and the Seahawk/Apple guy.

The only inexplicable thing to me is handing so much to McD. We can bag even on McD's signal calling, which was probaly the least inept thing he did, but damn ... try going from an QB/OC coach on a vet team with a HOF QB and HC to running the entire show including being QB coach and calling plays..... I didn't find McD to be likeable in anyway, but there was no way he could make it work. But, I'm honestly 50-50 on whether Bowlen had decided to trade Lambchop sometime after Bates left and Lampchop went pissymode, and then lied about the phone calls to try and get the moral high ground with the fans. But I don't really care.

A lot of what's gone on at Bronco Central will come out with the new hire. Ellis not a football guy, and Xanders is a cap/contract guy. The new CBA will fix the fact that Bowlen is getting squezzed between the players getting 60% of shared revenue and the agreement making higher non-shared revenue share some of that with teams that don't have new money generator stadiums. The rumor is that Elway is coming in as sort of an executive VP with Xanders staying on, and Ellis continuing to be Bowlen's eyes and ears. That would make some sense because Bowlen would not have to hire a guy like Cowher who wants all the power, nor would he have to hire a guy like Holmgren to run the whole show with the owner just sort of trusting him to know what's best.

24champ
12-28-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm sure he's going to refer to Jay Cutler's lies about talking Bowlen and Bowlen saying Jay didn't talk to him.

Columnist Rick Reilly said he heard from 3 different sources that Jay Cutler did call him back. Secondly, Footsteps was taking the Mile High Stadium tour, not the Dove Valley tour. I don't find it to be a coincidence that Bowlen has gone into hiding and lets Ellis handle the media. He hasn't exactly been coherent whenever he talks with the media...one recent instance is when Bowlen said McDaniels has job security this year and will coach next season and then an hour later says well maybe not. Obviously McDaniels is canned not very long after. There's been some very odd behavior coming from Bowlen in recent years.

Mile High Shack
12-28-2010, 04:21 PM
Columnist Rick Reilly said he heard from 3 different sources that Jay Cutler did call him back. Secondly, Footsteps was taking the Mile High Stadium tour, not the Dove Valley tour. I don't find it to be a coincidence that Bowlen has gone into hiding and lets Ellis handle the media. He hasn't exactly been coherent whenever he talks with the media...one recent instance is when Bowlen said McDaniels has job security this year and will coach next season and then an hour later says well maybe not. Obviously McDaniels is canned not very long after. There's been some very odd behavior coming from Bowlen in recent years.

dude use to wear a fur coat and you are saying there is odd behavior in RECENT years?

and stop with the Rick Riley stuff, he hasn't been credible since the early 90's

bendog
12-28-2010, 04:25 PM
Columnist Rick Reilly said he heard from 3 different sources that Jay Cutler did call him back. Secondly, Footsteps was taking the Mile High Stadium tour, not the Dove Valley tour. I don't find it to be a coincidence that Bowlen has gone into hiding and lets Ellis handle the media. He hasn't exactly been coherent whenever he talks with the media...one recent instance is when Bowlen said McDaniels has job security this year and will coach next season and then an hour later says well maybe not. Obviously McDaniels is canned not very long after. There's been some very odd behavior coming from Bowlen in recent years.

What Shack said. Bowlen's never HAD to take a hand in running the team before. First he had R66v6s who eventually got total control, then two years of Wade, and then Shanny took over. The only crisis Bowlen faced before was with R66v6s v. Elway/shanny. And the resolution of that was a no brainer.

When the owners shared virtually ALL of the revenue, it was impossible to lose money. But people like Jerry Jones didn't LIKE sharing money with owners who didn't care about winning, but just wanted to get shared money from teams that perpetually sold out. Once Jerry Jones opened Pandorra's box to generating "non-shared" revenue, it became very possible to lose money owning an NFL team. Bowlen has loans to pay off, and he depends on sell outs to pay them.

Bowlen not only cut payroll, he got rid of the two players looking for long term contracts that would have been around 200million combined. He signed Doom, but the fans would have gone insane and burned his castle if he'd done that. There is financial and labor dirt that won't do Bowlen, or maybe even Den and the Broncos, getting aired. And a new CBA makes all the dirt go away.

Likwid Kerruj
12-28-2010, 04:40 PM
Pat's only 936 spots lower than a man simply known as Tron...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:IovmVJFYiEDcxM:http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8872/38309947.jpg&t=1

24champ
12-28-2010, 05:00 PM
dude use to wear a fur coat and you are saying there is odd behavior in RECENT years?

and stop with the Rick Riley stuff, he hasn't been credible since the early 90's

Who cares what the **** Bowlen is wearing, the actions of the owner in the past several years is more concerning and there may be some credence to Rick Reilly's report since he does have some Broncos ties. Add in the fact that Bowlen said the Goodmans would stick around, Bates would remain on the coaching staff, Cutler is the man around here, McDaniels is our coach for 2010 and beyond etc. It's all odd behavior coming from Bowlen.

"I really have had no discussions with Jay. Now to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age and I'm not sure of that discussion."- Pat Bowlen

Sounds like a guy that has a great recollection of things ...doesn't it?



Dr. Alan Anderson, a Neurology Professor at the University of Colorado says a lot of things can cause memory loss. He emphasizes he's not trying to diagnose anyone and is not commenting specifically about Bowlen. But he says, in general, many things can cause memory loss issues, like medication or other medical issues or depression or drugs and alcohol.

Hmm, Alcohol can cause memory loss? You don't say Dr. Anderson...

Beantown Bronco
12-28-2010, 05:07 PM
Columnist Rick Reilly said he heard from 3 different sources that Jay Cutler did call him back.

Jay, Jay's mom and Jay's dad.

Missouribronc
12-28-2010, 06:29 PM
Jay, Jay's mom and Jay's dad.

(Setting; Cutler family dinner, Santa Claus, Ind., Spring, 2009)
Mom: Jay, honey, did you go and call your boss? You know he called twice yesterday.
Jay (with exaggerated sigh): Yes, mom. Gosh, do you guys not trust me anymore? I'm 24, for gosh sakes.
Dad: Sure we do, son. How did practice go with your friends this afternoon?
Jay: I play professional football now, dad. We're off for a few months.
Dad: I sure like that Mr. Bowlen. He's a real swell guy.
Jay: He's trying to trade me!
Mom: Sure he is, honey (towseling Jay's hair as she heads to the kitchen - exit stage left)
Dad: OK son, now tell me the truth, did you really call Mr. Bowlen back?
Jay: Yes! (Jay slams his hands on the table and storms off stage right)

Scene ends.

HAT
12-28-2010, 09:41 PM
Columnist Rick Reilly said he heard from 3 different sources that Jay Cutler did call him back.

That's ****ing awesome if true. God, I hope that's true.

Bronco Vixen
12-28-2010, 11:24 PM
No it isnt at all because none of them have come from anything credible other than a comment taken out of context and footsteps made up story. The silly thing is people around here pretending there's something to it. This is completely a construction of people around here too dense to understand what someone was talking about and trying to make sense of their team not being good.

Find me one legit source that even hints he has a memory problem. Please.

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2010/11/sources_pat_bowlen_no_longer_broncos_major_decisio n_maker_amid_memory_loss_questions.php

So the "legit" nature of this source and the sources that he himself quotes, can of course be scrutinized but I think it at least proves that the hypothesis that Mr. Bowlen is suffering from some change in mental status is indeed out there and not simply a made up story from the mane.

I am in the field, and I think that there is definitely enough evidence out there to at least warrant speculation (i.e., comments on poor health, memory loss for complete events - not just details, personality changes, and not being involved in major financial & personnel decision making). Also, the fact that he has completely withdrawn from all media - particularly during this very turbulent time when the fans could have used answers, could be construed as a very understandable attempt to hide any cognitive decline. And it's not just the media, I have acquaintances that used to see him around all the time (at the club and social gatherings) but not at all for the past two years. Of course the question is, who the heck am I and why would anyone believe me - and that is legitimate. I am only expressing what I have heard.

The bottom line is that until his family decides to publicly announce one way or the other, there will be no hard proof. It is understandable that they would want to keep the matter private - if it is indeed true - because not only is it devastating, but it is also a very murky area in terms of getting definitive diagnoses. There is no confirmatory lab test for dementia. It is a clinical diagnosis based on a number of different sources of evidence, and even if it is determined that one has mild cognitive impairment, moderate cognitive impairment, or dementia, the possibly etiologies (e.g., vascular disease, alzheimer's, alcohol) are many.

It is definitely a tricky situation. We would never truly advance as a species (and many can argue that several around these parts have not :) if we were forced to only stick to facts and weren't allowed to hypothesize and to speculate. Speculation is healthy, but I think most important is HOW it is done.

It needs to be done diligently and respectfully and let me be the first to admit that I have not done a very good job at that myself - particularly unconscionable on my part seeing as how I am in this field. And for that, I apologize.

vercingetorix
12-28-2010, 11:31 PM
I don't know how many times I need to state this, but hard assets (what his $1 billion is based on, the ownership of the team) is not the same as liquidity, ie, something that can be turned into capital. Nobody has ever said Bowlen is broke, only that his finances are shrouded in secrecy and deliberately so, that the court records in the lawsuit with Kaiser revealed a shockingly bad set of terms he was forced to accept when he made the deal to buy the Broncos based largely on credit and future earnings, and the fact that the terms of that deal have handicapped him in terms of his options and flexibility.

You don't understand finance if you think Bowlen has a billion dollars in his pocket.

This. Some people need to ask questions first.

tsiguy96
12-28-2010, 11:31 PM
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2010/11/sources_pat_bowlen_no_longer_broncos_major_decisio n_maker_amid_memory_loss_questions.php

I am in the field, and I think that there is definitely enough evidence out there to at least warrant speculation (i.e., comments on poor health, memory loss for complete events - not just details, personality changes, and not being involved in major financial & personnel decision making)

are you guys that dense? his "memory loss" quote was a JOKE. he was saying its been a long time since the team went to the super bowl, but the media jumped all over it out of context, of course.

there is literally no real evidence that hes not involved in major decisions with this team, hell he fired the coach, that was HIS decision.

Kaylore
12-29-2010, 06:29 AM
Columnist Rick Reilly said he heard from 3 different sources that Jay Cutler did call him back. Secondly, Footsteps was taking the Mile High Stadium tour, not the Dove Valley tour. I don't find it to be a coincidence that Bowlen has gone into hiding and lets Ellis handle the media. He hasn't exactly been coherent whenever he talks with the media...one recent instance is when Bowlen said McDaniels has job security this year and will coach next season and then an hour later says well maybe not. Obviously McDaniels is canned not very long after. There's been some very odd behavior coming from Bowlen in recent years.

Is this post serious? The owner giving the vote of confidence and then firing him later is so common place it's become a cliche' around the analyst shows. And Bowlen has never had good speaking skills. Sometimes it's because he's wasted, like he was at Zimmerman's HOF induction. Most of the time it's because he's not a good public speaker. Really though, this highlights the problem. You took one article (you have yet to post, btw) where Cutler lied even after the Broncos said they have phone records and turned it into "Pat Bowlen has Alzheimer's disease."

And I'm going to call Invesco and see if they do tours.

footstepsfrom#27
12-29-2010, 09:11 AM
It doesn't matter what he's worth, and arguing that he doesn't see all his revenue doesn't change the end fact and that's that Bowlen isn't broke, footsteps.
I never said he was broke, which makes the rest of your post irrelevant.
Also I don't believe your story that a "tour guide" at Dove Valley told you he had amnesia or whatever. They don't have tour guides at Dove Valley. There isn't a position in the Broncos organization. I think you made up that story to give your theory credibility.
Put down the bong man, you're on strike two now; I didn't say it happened at Dove Valley, I said it happened on the stadium tour at Invesco...more silliness on your part.

Sorry...the rest of that was just to much drivel to bother with, especially since you're arguing some mess I've not even been talking about.

Kaylore
12-29-2010, 09:14 AM
I never said he was broke, which makes the rest of your post irrelevant.


http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9i272fS0s1qzn5wzo1_500.jpg

OBF1
12-29-2010, 11:59 AM
Must be a mistake... I was at McDonalds the other day and saw Pat ordering off of the value menu./ Believe it, he is broke :)

footstepsfrom#27
12-29-2010, 12:21 PM
No it isnt at all because none of them have come from anything credible other than a comment taken out of context and footsteps made up story. The silly thing is people around here pretending there's something to it. This is completely a construction of people around here too dense to understand what someone was talking about and trying to make sense of their team not being good.

Find me one legit source that even hints he has a memory problem. Please.
You need to stop pretending that I ever said it was true when I reported hearing it in the first place. Go back and read what I wrote. When I first noted this, it wasn't even in a thread of it's own, it was inside an existing thread. I had no other objective than to report what somebody said, and I stated at the time that I didn't know anything about the accuracy of the report, the credibility of the reporter, or whether she was in position to know anything. My purpose for reporting this in the first place was that I found it incredible someone employed by the team would say this to a public audience, no matter how small.

Since you weren't there, you don't if it happened or not, and since you can't even get your facts straight in terms of what you think I said, where it happened, etc.., well you should at least do that much. On top of all this, there is more evidence than you are willing to admit that Bowlen is slowing down. Do you think most owners in the NFL would not have come forward by now to address the fan base about some of the insane things we've seen in the recent past? I know the guy stays away from publicity, but there is simply no reason for him to completely ignore the confusion going on right now with the fans. Throughtout this entire fiasco, Bowlen if anything, has been much more absent from the public eye than ever before, and this is a guy who insisted when he hired Josh that he was going to become a much different kind of owner, the kind that took a hands-on approach. Whether you agree that's the right approach or not, it's odd that he made this bold statement of strategic re-direction signalling a completely new approach after 2 1/2 decades of ownership, and then he promptly disappeared off the map for the most part.

bronco militia
12-29-2010, 12:25 PM
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9i272fS0s1qzn5wzo1_500.jpg

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldnomk4TCe1qcf25xo1_500.jpg

;D