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View Full Version : Woody says Elway deal done, Xanders to get more authority and team to return to orange in 2012


montrose
12-27-2010, 02:31 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_16948882

Killericon
12-27-2010, 02:37 AM
If the orange switch were verified, it wouldn't be 1/3 down the page.

mhgaffney
12-27-2010, 02:45 AM
Very happy to hear that Elway will help to pick the new coach.

meangene
12-27-2010, 02:58 AM
First blunder of next year - Xanders as GM. Here we go...

epicSocialism4tw
12-27-2010, 03:07 AM
Very happy to hear that Elway will help to pick the new coach.

I think that'll be a good thing.

Elway knows what its like to be a young guy out there trying to win games while getting held back by an over-cautious head coach. Hopefully he'll have some wisdom to share.

And is there a better guy to bring along Tebow? Elway was a great QB/athlete.

Ratboy
12-27-2010, 04:05 AM
2012? Wtf?

Kaylore
12-27-2010, 05:29 AM
The Broncos' 2012 coach will be charged with significantly improving the defense, using the high draft choices to upgrade the entire team.

If this is true, and I don't know that it is, it will mean Bowlen has learned nothing. He'll slip back into letting the coach do what he wants while a bunch of "GM-Type" executives stand around trying to figure out who's more in charge. The same problem that plagued Shanny and McD will manifest on the new coach: too much on their plates.

go_broncos
12-27-2010, 05:31 AM
Bowlen - It seems you didn't learn the leason.
Why are you not hiring experienced GM?

go_broncos
12-27-2010, 05:38 AM
There are many teams that are benefiting hiring experienced GM first.
Bowlen is stuck in 90's.Hopefully, Elway doesn't hire Kubiak as HC.
That will suck.

tsiguy96
12-27-2010, 06:03 AM
xanders shoudl get a shot at being a real GM, they said previously that hes impressed people with his scouting ability. give the man a shot, atleast he knows the roster we have top to bottom. i too would like to hire abig name and have them fix everything, but it doesnt always work that way.

BroncoInferno
12-27-2010, 06:11 AM
xanders shoudl get a shot at being a real GM, they said previously that hes impressed people with his scouting ability. give the man a shot, atleast he knows the roster we have top to bottom. i too would like to hire abig name and have them fix everything, but it doesnt always work that way.

We can't afford to experiment with a completely unproven guy like Xanders. It's not about what he "deserves." If it doesn't work, it will be ten years before this franchise is relevant again. You bring in a guy with a PROVEN personnel background. If this is true, I will hope for the best (as always), but to me it's too big of a risk considering where the franchise is at right now.

Cmac821
12-27-2010, 06:26 AM
First blunder of next year - Xanders as GM. Here we go...

Read the article, it said he will remain GM by title because Elway will hold some personal power

BroncoInferno
12-27-2010, 06:28 AM
Read the article, it said he will remain GM by title because Elway will hold some personal power

I hope this is wrong. Elway himself said only a couple of weeks ago that he didn't want personnel power because he didn't have any experience with it. If true, this would be a disaster.

Likwid Kerruj
12-27-2010, 06:33 AM
Xanders needs to be gone or as far away as possible from any decision making regarding players.

Man-Goblin
12-27-2010, 06:38 AM
We can't afford to experiment with a completely unproven guy like Xanders. It's not about what he "deserves." If it doesn't work, it will be ten years before this franchise is relevant again. You bring in a guy with a PROVEN personnel background. If this is true, I will hope for the best (as always), but to me it's too big of a risk considering where the franchise is at right now.

It's distressing, to say the least. The key word here in giving Xanders the GM job is definitely 'unproven'. He's definitely unproven in his scouting ability, in evalutating talent, and even being able to draft a fair contract. Nobody here really knows if he can do that or not, so maybe it will work out great. Maybe.

But the uncertainty that is most distressing to me is that he's never been part of a successful organization. The Falcons were a dumpster fire when he was he was there, and the Broncos haven't been much better than that since he's been here.

I felt like the only silver lining of this disaster of a season was going to be that we would get a proven head of fooball ops that had experience with winning in the modern NFL. A guy who had observed the structure and processes necessary to win and make the playoffs. If Woody is right, we won't be getting that. Again.

And it makes me want to puke.

spdirty
12-27-2010, 06:42 AM
I don't like Xanders. I don't like his 2 faced nature. He is my last choice for gm. However, if the ****er has final authority over the draft, and when using that authority he actually listens to and uses the advice of our scouting department, then it might not be the complete disaster that people here think is inevitable.

meangene
12-27-2010, 06:50 AM
Read the article, it said he will remain GM by title because Elway will hold some personal power

I read the article. It says Xanders and Elway will share personnel power. Xanders has no experience in this area (unless you believe he shared that power with McD which he is now denying) and Elway has, himself, said that he is not qualified to do that and does not wish to do so. Thus, Xanders becomes the man. Unless you believe the other thread with the list of GM candidates which I hope is more accurate than Woody.

tsiguy96
12-27-2010, 06:51 AM
Xanders needs to be gone or as far away as possible from any decision making regarding players.

he has been far away from decision making, hes now getting a chance to do it with mcd gone. just saying. people here who dont want him dont want him because its uncertain, its not a sure thing, but guess what "director of pro player personnel" are in similar boats, they are advisors to the GM, like decosta from baltimore. newsome makes the choices.

Cmac821
12-27-2010, 06:53 AM
I read the article. It says Xanders and Elway will share personnel power. Xanders has no experience in this area (unless you believe he shared that power with McD which he is now denying) and Elway has, himself, said that he is not qualified to do that and does not wish to do so. Thus, Xanders becomes the man. Unless you believe the other thread with the list of GM candidates which I hope is more accurate than Woody.

When you put it that way my previous statement is completely wrong.

All this excitement has caused me to post but might go back to lurking ROFL!

Likwid Kerruj
12-27-2010, 06:54 AM
Paige usually just throws stuff up on the wall to see what sticks, but this is a big mistake if true.

I want someone that has ALREADY proven they know how to build a team.

Not an assistant, but THE guy.

I don't mind Elway in an advisory role, but even he needs to earn his keep to become more involved in decision making.

tsiguy96
12-27-2010, 06:57 AM
Paige usually just throws stuff up on the wall to see what sticks, but this is a big mistake if true.

I want someone that has ALREADY proven they know how to build a team.

Not an assistant, but THE guy.

I don't mind Elway in an advisory role, but even he needs to earn his keep to become more involved in decision making.

then casserly is it, most of the other guys do not have prior GM experience.

Man-Goblin
12-27-2010, 06:58 AM
he has been far away from decision making, hes now getting a chance to do it with mcd gone. just saying. people here who dont want him dont want him because its uncertain, its not a sure thing, but guess what "director of pro player personnel" are in similar boats, they are advisors to the GM, like decosta from baltimore. newsome makes the choices.

Correct, it's uncertain whoever they bring in. But when you say that he "deserves" to be calling the shots, are you saying that you believe he is the most qualified of all of the realistic candidates that have been mentioned? And how can you, or more importantly whoever is making the decisions at Dove Valley, make that determination without even talking to anyone else? Without talking to anyone else who might have some fresh ideas as a result of experience in a successful organization?

To me, it's either that they don't want to spend any more money bringing in anyone else, or they're too stupid to realize they should explore all options. Either way, it's bad.

I hope to god Woody is talking out of his ass and this article is incorrect.

Mile High Shack
12-27-2010, 07:07 AM
unlike the rest of you, I don't know how good Xanders can be b/c McD called all the shots.....so I'll just see what happens

Drek
12-27-2010, 07:08 AM
I hope this is wrong. Elway himself said only a couple of weeks ago that he didn't want personnel power because he didn't have any experience with it. If true, this would be a disaster.

Isn't that more an indication that Woody doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, not that the Broncos have pulled a 180 only weeks after the initial statement?

Kinda like how the front office guy who now feels the need to basically treat his remaining days this season like a 24 hour local media junket is supposedly locked into the job when reports of guys like DeCosta being eyed are surfacing from national press outlets.

xanders shoudl get a shot at being a real GM, they said previously that hes impressed people with his scouting ability. give the man a shot, atleast he knows the roster we have top to bottom. i too would like to hire abig name and have them fix everything, but it doesnt always work that way.

Almost all of Xanders' NFL experience comes in a cap management/contract negotiation role, with limited experience as a scout. If anything the scouting people we have who've gotten the most props for their work here are Kieth Kidd and Matt Russell. I wouldn't be surprised if they're retained when the regime change occurs.

This is the chance to bring a real first class personnel guy to manage the next decade or more of Broncos football, teaming him with a coach who can shape the current personnel into a competitive football team again. We really should NOT be thinking about settling for an unproven quantity like Xanders for this job. It reeks of xenophobia and poor valuation of what you're truly offering. There are only 32 GM positions and a good chunk of them are locked up for the foreseeable future. We can get one of the elite personnel directors in the league to make the next step here, not just an in house capologist who would love to cut his teeth on the Broncos dime.

Swedish Extrovert
12-27-2010, 07:14 AM
Well I would like to have the guys that did the last draft in charge of the Broncos I say go for it.

tsiguy96
12-27-2010, 07:45 AM
Almost all of Xanders' NFL experience comes in a cap management/contract negotiation role, with limited experience as a scout. If anything the scouting people we have who've gotten the most props for their work here are Kieth Kidd and Matt Russell. I wouldn't be surprised if they're retained when the regime change occurs.

This is the chance to bring a real first class personnel guy to manage the next decade or more of Broncos football, teaming him with a coach who can shape the current personnel into a competitive football team again. We really should NOT be thinking about settling for an unproven quantity like Xanders for this job. It reeks of xenophobia and poor valuation of what you're truly offering. There are only 32 GM positions and a good chunk of them are locked up for the foreseeable future. We can get one of the elite personnel directors in the league to make the next step here, not just an in house capologist who would love to cut his teeth on the Broncos dime.

thats entirely not true. go read his actual bio, and go read what he JUST said in vic and gary. fan perception does not equal reality, sorry drek.

tsiguy96
12-27-2010, 07:46 AM
xanders interview on vic and gary not long ago:

xanders said tebow has done well with his opportunities...

talking about josh liking tebow and what xanders though, josh was intrigued by watching him on TV, great interview on combine, tebow and josh hit it off, great football minds and energy, flew him to denver and had a great all day interview, then they flew to gainesville for 6 hours to teach him scheme and protections and he did good. went to see demaryius, and tried to figure out strategy of where he would go in the draft. strategy that morning to move back to collect a bunch of picks, draft demaryius, then move back up to 1st/2nd to get tebow.

talking about intangibles and all that stuff, then throwing motion.

background is perceived as salary cap guy, but xanders says that a big misconception. 17 seasons in the league, dan reeves coaching staff for 5 years, learned def off and STs, lost a SB against elway his 2nd year coaching. moved to personnel from 02-08, unique job doing college scouting, cross check evals, go on road scouting, then did pro personnel FA, then did contract research on the side. 90% of his job now is watching tape and evaluating players. in 08, shanahan hired him to do all 3.

leaving his future up to pat and joe at end of season. would love to be here, loves the org but will wait to see what happens if hes still here.

VG: no secret josh had final say, how did that process work?
draft: college scouting dept, december and feb meetings, set board going into combine, xanders and mcd would evaluate and they would get together, there was some disagreements but mostly agreements, mcd had final say. always ready with shortlist of vets and younger players in pro personnel. in FA, they get together and execute their plan.

VG: can expect den to not trade away draft choices, rely more on draft and less on vets?
with me, plan would be to try and acquire more selections and build team through draft. younger players on the roster, develop tehm with your scheme then retain those players. invest in your own draft picks and develop them. gonna need some replacements for team needs and injuries.

VG: is tebow future?
hes in his 2nd game, well see where he goes.

VG: player that broncos let go, polarizing figure, peyton hillis.
thing on that id rather not say publicly, but hes done a great job in cleveland. wont answer anything else.

BroncoInferno
12-27-2010, 07:48 AM
with me, plan would be to try and acquire more selections and build team through draft.

SoCal likes the sound of that.

CEH
12-27-2010, 07:52 AM
Xanders has the stinch of Josh on him right or wrong. Even though he may be liked by Ellis and Bowlen with the way things have shakened out I still think we need a proven draft oriented GM . Xanders can stay and learn.

Best scenrio Luck stays, we get another year to look at Tebow, draft defense and see how things play out for '12

Missouribronc
12-27-2010, 08:02 AM
Well I would like to have the guys that did the last draft in charge of the Broncos I say go for it.

He got fired.

Likwid Kerruj
12-27-2010, 08:06 AM
Here's to hiring someone who will have more than 10 names on the draft board.

meangene
12-27-2010, 08:09 AM
When you put it that way my previous statement is completely wrong.

All this excitement has caused me to post but might go back to lurking ROFL!

Naw, we need more posters. Most of us end up wrong most of the time anyway. :approve:

Drek
12-27-2010, 08:13 AM
thats entirely not true. go read his actual bio, and go read what he JUST said in vic and gary. fan perception does not equal reality, sorry drek.

He can say whatever he wants. When has he ever actually ran a scouting department? All of his highest level positions revolved around him managing the cap while someone else had final say. Even when he got the bump up to come here he had the Goodmans running the scouting department. As soon as they left we brought in Kieth Kidd and Matt Russell to fill that void.

Working as a cross checker of scouting evaluations for a while doesn't make you qualified to run an entire organization's personnel program. Someone like DeCosta or Grigson who has literally ran the entire personnel evaluation process for highly successful teams and been given more and more responsibility within that role is the kind of person we should be looking to put into that position.

This is the equivalent of someone who spent a few years as a positional coach and then a collegiate HC saying he brings NFL experience with him when he jumps to being an NFL HC. They might be good at the job but the "pedigree" they're touting isn't as impressive as they're framing it.

He was middle management in Atlanta. His first real shot at playing with the big boys with the private bathrooms has been here in Denver where he's bee primarily relegated to capologist. If we had a setup similar to the '08 organization, Shanahan as the powerful HC, Goodman running the player personnel side of things, and a vacancy at GM I'd be all for grooming him to run the front office when those two left. But wer'e orchestrating a full regime change. We've got a position that dozens of people FAR more qualified than Xanders would love to have.

Just settling for Xanders would be the equivalent of keeping Kyle Orton at QB for the indefinite future because he's solid if unspectacular instead of pursuing a difference maker to run the offense.

tsiguy96
12-27-2010, 08:37 AM
He can say whatever he wants. When has he ever actually ran a scouting department? All of his highest level positions revolved around him managing the cap while someone else had final say. Even when he got the bump up to come here he had the Goodmans running the scouting department. As soon as they left we brought in Kieth Kidd and Matt Russell to fill that void.

Working as a cross checker of scouting evaluations for a while doesn't make you qualified to run an entire organization's personnel program. Someone like DeCosta or Grigson who has literally ran the entire personnel evaluation process for highly successful teams and been given more and more responsibility within that role is the kind of person we should be looking to put into that position.

This is the equivalent of someone who spent a few years as a positional coach and then a collegiate HC saying he brings NFL experience with him when he jumps to being an NFL HC. They might be good at the job but the "pedigree" they're touting isn't as impressive as they're framing it.

He was middle management in Atlanta. His first real shot at playing with the big boys with the private bathrooms has been here in Denver where he's bee primarily relegated to capologist. If we had a setup similar to the '08 organization, Shanahan as the powerful HC, Goodman running the player personnel side of things, and a vacancy at GM I'd be all for grooming him to run the front office when those two left. But wer'e orchestrating a full regime change. We've got a position that dozens of people FAR more qualified than Xanders would love to have.

Just settling for Xanders would be the equivalent of keeping Kyle Orton at QB for the indefinite future because he's solid if unspectacular instead of pursuing a difference maker to run the offense.

xanders has never had an opportunity, keeping him is like keeping tebow. we dont know how it will turn out long term, thats not a reason to throw him under the bus. he has a LOT of experience in scouting, read exactly what he just said and go read his official bio. because he spent time doing contracts and learning how they work doesnt mean thats ALL he does, when in fact the majority of his career was spent in coaching and scouting.

Drek
12-27-2010, 08:55 AM
xanders has never had an opportunity, keeping him is like keeping tebow. we dont know how it will turn out long term, thats not a reason to throw him under the bus. he has a LOT of experience in scouting, read exactly what he just said and go read his official bio. because he spent time doing contracts and learning how they work doesnt mean thats ALL he does, when in fact the majority of his career was spent in coaching and scouting.

I have read his official bio. In fact, I read the official bio on pretty much every assistant and front office person the team puts one up for. I also read the bios of those people (like DeCosta or Grigson) who would be in the running for a job as a fully empowered GM from outside the organization.

Xanders career simply doesn't stack up. His only real experience in player evaluation has been in middle management. When he made the step up it was in a cap manager capacity and he's been there ever since. He has always had more proven personnel guys doing the leg work and he simply reviews and double checks. He has never had to build a player personnel staff from the ground up, overhaul a region's scouting program, or even be the actual guy to pull the trigger on bringing someone onto the team.

If he's a legitimate candidate for the job then guys like DeCosta and Grigson should be asking themselves if this is a real GM position or just a middle man for Elway, Ellis, and Bowlen to work through. If this is a real empowered GM that we want to run the long term player personnel development of the Denver Broncos why would we choose an ok candidate when we could surely get one of the exceptional candidates instead?

If I can get chop steak or prime rib for the same price you can be damn sure I'm not going to settle for the former.

Broncoman13
12-27-2010, 09:01 AM
I hate how there is so much chatter out there regarding a move for Luck. He may be a better pure passer, but he isn't the same leader Tebow is. In fact I think I have seen two or three guys lead like Tebow in the last 30 years. How do you move away from that?

Was it me or did X just make it sound like Tebow was all McD's idea?

BroncosMT
12-27-2010, 09:05 AM
I don't think you can move away from Tebow now....have to give him a shot for the next couple of years.....I don't care how he does it but he is a winner!

FISH
12-27-2010, 09:09 AM
"Woody says Elway deal done, Xanders to get more authority and team to return to orange in 2012"


and will there be ice cream?

montrose
12-27-2010, 09:17 AM
Drek- Big ups for references to Matt Russell who I've been told is a rising star around the league in personell.

Drek
12-27-2010, 10:23 AM
Drek- Big ups for references to Matt Russell who I've been told is a rising star around the league in personell.

He and Kieth Kidd both need to be retained. Fans like to hate on everything McDaniels related but the past two seasons this team has been absolutely on the money at valuing prospects relative to how other teams see them. That wasn't Xanders' or McDaniels' job. That was Kieth Kidd and Matt Russell.

They have their finger on the pulse of how other NFL teams rank prospects. That is an amazingly valuable tool to have come draft day and we absolutely need to hang onto it.

An outside GM wanting to clean house and bring in his guys, therefore replacing Kidd and Russell, is the lone strong argument for going with Xanders over an elite prospect like DeCosta et al.

serious hops
12-27-2010, 10:29 AM
Xanders as GM? Don't do that to us you gutless old drunk!

24champ
12-27-2010, 11:43 AM
xanders has never had an opportunity, keeping him is like keeping tebow. we dont know how it will turn out long term, thats not a reason to throw him under the bus. he has a LOT of experience in scouting, read exactly what he just said and go read his official bio. because he spent time doing contracts and learning how they work doesnt mean thats ALL he does, when in fact the majority of his career was spent in coaching and scouting.

I would have to agree with Drek, it's risky putting Xanders in charge of everything when he isn't as qualified as others. It doesn't make sense when there are more qualified candidates out there that have a system that does well with drafts and free agents. We can't afford to **** up this draft and HOPE that Xanders can handle this job. This isn't a time for experiments and on the job training. Finding out what Xanders can do is a waste of time.

Boogerboots
12-27-2010, 11:49 AM
...and we're returning to Orange in 2012?? Didn't it say that we're going to drop "Invesco Field @" from the stadium name too right?

May as well dream a little. Sounds too good to be true.

montrose
12-27-2010, 11:55 AM
Anybody but DeCosta.

Denver Crush
12-27-2010, 12:03 PM
For all intents and purposes, Ellis is running this team, not Pat. Unfortunately. :(

24champ
12-27-2010, 12:05 PM
DeCosta is not worried about job security...he has helped the team he works for get in the playoffs.

At the same time, Xanders is hitting the local media circuit trying to save his job after one of the worst seasons in franchise history.

broncocalijohn
12-27-2010, 12:51 PM
If the orange switch were verified, it wouldn't be 1/3 down the page.

I think news that relates directly to the team is more important. Plus, it is the day after Tebow Time and that is going to be written before what jersey color we are wearing next season.

extralife
12-27-2010, 01:40 PM
so we go from Xanders getting McD coffee to Xanders getting Elway coffee. color me not surprised. you better be damn good Tebow, cause you ain't getting any real help.

anon
12-27-2010, 02:40 PM
Xanders sounds like a risk at GM, but coming from an organization with a successful pedigree is not a guarantee of success: just look at all the NE assistants.

Rohirrim
12-27-2010, 02:52 PM
He and Kieth Kidd both need to be retained. Fans like to hate on everything McDaniels related but the past two seasons this team has been absolutely on the money at valuing prospects relative to how other teams see them. That wasn't Xanders' or McDaniels' job. That was Kieth Kidd and Matt Russell.

They have their finger on the pulse of how other NFL teams rank prospects. That is an amazingly valuable tool to have come draft day and we absolutely need to hang onto it.

An outside GM wanting to clean house and bring in his guys, therefore replacing Kidd and Russell, is the lone strong argument for going with Xanders over an elite prospect like DeCosta et al.

Russell won the Butkus Award at CU. Go Buffs! !Booya!

Rohirrim
12-27-2010, 02:52 PM
Anybody but DeCosta.

Why so?

24champ
12-27-2010, 03:14 PM
Xanders sounds like a risk at GM, but coming from an organization with a successful pedigree is not a guarantee of success: just look at all the NE assistants.

The first place you want to look at is a successful team over a period of time because that's where the Broncos are trying to go. I think Mularkey would be a great hire, with the right coaching staff and bring in DeCosta or Grigson to find the players to make the Broncos contenders again.

Xanders is a real risk, because this current roster is not one or two players away from contending from the playoffs. We need a GM that has a vision of building a team with a solid group of players that can carry us back to the playoffs.

montrose
12-27-2010, 03:31 PM
Why so?

Because he is to Ozzie Newsome what Josh McDaniels was to Bill Belichick. I want no part of the Ravens front office tree just as no team should want a Patriots Assistant coach without Belichick. Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini and McDaniels have all failed as Head Coaches after leaving Belichick; while Phil Savage and George Kohinis were miserable failures as General Managers after leaving Newsome. Decosta could be successful on his own but its just as much a risk bringing him in as GM as it would be hiring another Belichick assistant as HC.

In fact, I'd argue Belichick-tree coaches are MORE successful as HCs than Newsome-tree executives are as GMs. The secret is Newsome, not his assistants.

tsiguy96
12-27-2010, 03:34 PM
Because he is to Ozzie Newsome what Josh McDaniels was to Bill Belichick. I want no part of the Ravens front office tree just as no team should want a Patriots Assistant coach without Belichick. Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini and McDaniels have all failed as Head Coaches after leaving Belichick; while Phil Savage and George Kohinis were miserable failures as General Managers after leaving Newsome. Decosta could be successful on his own but its just as much a risk bringing him in as GM as it would be hiring another Belichick assistant as HC.

In fact, I'd argue Belichick-tree coaches are MORE successful as HCs than Newsome-tree executives are as GMs. The secret is Newsome, not his assistants.

thank you. id say protege of a certain person is very overrated...xanders needs to get a real shot, but has a chance at being succcessful

meangene
12-27-2010, 04:12 PM
The first place you want to look at is a successful team over a period of time because that's where the Broncos are trying to go. I think Mularkey would be a great hire, with the right coaching staff and bring in DeCosta or Grigson to find the players to make the Broncos contenders again.

Xanders is a real risk, because this current roster is not one or two players away from contending from the playoffs. We need a GM that has a vision of building a team with a solid group of players that can carry us back to the playoffs.

Yeah, I'm thinking Mularkey would be a great hire as well. Did a great job as the OC in Pittsburgh as well developing Kordell Stewart, Hines Ward, etc. Not to mention what he has done in Atlanta. Also, I think having the trick plays in the arsenal keeps defenses honest and he was the one who originated that in Pittsburgh.

24champ
12-27-2010, 06:28 PM
Because he is to Ozzie Newsome what Josh McDaniels was to Bill Belichick. I want no part of the Ravens front office tree just as no team should want a Patriots Assistant coach without Belichick. Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini and McDaniels have all failed as Head Coaches after leaving Belichick; while Phil Savage and George Kohinis were miserable failures as General Managers after leaving Newsome. Decosta could be successful on his own but its just as much a risk bringing him in as GM as it would be hiring another Belichick assistant as HC.

In fact, I'd argue Belichick-tree coaches are MORE successful as HCs than Newsome-tree executives are as GMs. The secret is Newsome, not his assistants.

I think that's pretty illogical and fairly dumb perspective. Yes, lets just rule out someone from a successful franchise because people that have moved on from the same franchise have failed elsewhere. Brilliant! You should evaluate what the person's credentials are and not really worry about what the Coaching/GM tree the person is a part of. The fact that you like Xanders pretty much speaks for itself on your knowledge of things like football personnel.

As for DeCosta, he is plenty capable of being the General Manager of the Denver Broncos. He has worked all the way from the bottom. I do mean the BOTTOM, He was an intern under Charles Casserly with the Redskins and shortly after he was interviewing with Scott Pioli and Ozzie Newsome to get a low level position with the just moved from Cleveland... Baltimore Ravens. Look where he is now, he is Director of Player Personnel. Look you don't get promoted through the ranks like that if your not a good talent evaluator, much less have guys like Charles Casserly, Scott Pioli, Ozzie Newsome hiring you to be part of their staff. Needless to say, these guys aren't idiots when it comes to building football teams.

There's no doubt that Ozzie deserves credit for the Ravens consistent winning ways over the years but if you really knew what DeCosta did with the Ravens when he got promoted, he wasn't all inspired by Ozzie. DeCosta has a specific grading system for drafting and also for pro personnel.

Inspired by former Dallas general manager Gil Brandt and the Cowboys' computer-oriented, cutting-edge approach to player evaluation, DeCosta quickly proved himself to the Ravens and rose rapidly as a result.

"The Cowboys had a very innovative way of looking at talent," DeCosta said. "They had more scouts than anybody else, they held tryouts and conducted workouts all over the country and they outsmarted teams.

"That was something I was attracted to, and the Boston Celtics did the same thing with Red Auerbach and his wheeling and dealing. The idea of outsmarting other teams and making good moves, sound decisions, drafting well, signing players and making trades was what I always wanted to do."

And it's something he's wanted to do since he was 7 years old. He always has a vision and an explanation of how he builds a team. That's something the Broncos need... and there's a couple others in the league like him that I would be fine with. What the Broncos do not need, is somebody that had no authority whatsoever under 2 different coaches, and is now currently making the local media rounds to try and save his job.

Beantown Bronco
12-27-2010, 08:08 PM
Xanders needs to be gone or as far away as possible from any decision making regarding players.

Why? Didn't you hear....Xanders was responsible for bringing in all the good rookies and FAs the last few years and McD was the one who overruled him in deciding to bring in all the busts. X Man said so himself.

Cmac821
12-27-2010, 08:19 PM
Why? Didn't you hear....Xanders was responsible for bringing in all the good rookies and FAs the last few years and McD was the one who overruled him in deciding to bring in all the busts. X Man said so himself.

did he cross his arms in the shape of an "X" because that is how he should start and end every press conference, shows confidence

Beantown Bronco
12-27-2010, 08:21 PM
did he cross his arms in the shape of an "X" because that is how he should start and end every press conference, shows confidence

He should combine that with the waving of his hands in front of his face like our receivers love to do after they make any kind of catch at all....

Cmac821
12-27-2010, 08:24 PM
He should combine that with the waving of his hands in front of his face like our receivers love to do after they make any kind of catch at all....

maybe after nailing a conference he can crown himself as the "heavy weight champion belt owner"

footstepsfrom#27
12-27-2010, 08:58 PM
If he's a legitimate candidate for the job then guys like DeCosta and Grigson should be asking themselves if this is a real GM position or just a middle man for Elway, Ellis, and Bowlen to work through. If this is a real empowered GM that we want to run the long term player personnel development of the Denver Broncos why would we choose an ok candidate when we could surely get one of the exceptional candidates instead?
Because Pat Bowlen doesn't know what the hell he's doing these days, that's why.

Here's what irks me about Bowlen. I know the guy is historically shy of media attention and likes to stay in the background, but he's got an entire fan base with all kinds of questions about his future, his organizational structure, the hires he's made, what power those guys have, how we managed to make such a colosal mistake with Josh, what kind of coach Bowlen really wants to replace him, etc, etc, etc...and Bowlen is NOWHERE to be found or heard from on any of this. To me that's just inexcusable.

I'm no Jerry Jones fan...I can't stand the guy. But I'll give Jones major credit for one thing; he never runs from the media, from hard questions from the Cowboy fan base or from controversy over coaching changes. Jones appears in the Dallas media/talk show circuit with regularity and answers questions from fans and the press, something Bowlen never does. The guy has made very serious mistakes this last time around, to the point where people are also wondering if his mind is slipping and he's not even addressing that beyond trying to laugh it off or ignore the questions.

He needs to call a presser and open the floor for questions, provide honest answers and communicate with the fan base. Because we won Superbowls with Shanny and Bowlen brought him in here, he's gotten a free pass from a Denver fans but that's ancient history now. With attendance slipping and questions rising about Bowlen's finances, it's ridiculous for this guy to be this reclusive and unavailable. In fact it's downright disrespectful to the people who have supported this team for decades.

montrose
12-27-2010, 11:59 PM
I think that's pretty illogical and fairly dumb perspective. Yes, lets just rule out someone from a successful franchise because people that have moved on from the same franchise have failed elsewhere. Brilliant! You should evaluate what the person's credentials are and not really worry about what the Coaching/GM tree the person is a part of.

Is it? Considering one of the most common arguements brought up for why hiring Josh McDaniels was a mistake is the failure of the other assistants that left NE before him... I'm not saying every team should rule out candidates that come from failing trees, just the Broncos - right now. The franchise is in such a set of chaos I'd rather they bring in a guy with proven GM experience to at least get the ship going in the right direction.

The fact that you like Xanders pretty much speaks for itself on your knowledge of things like football personnel.

You do realize Jeff whenever I'm talking Xanders it's to give SoCal **** right? Although if I wanted to be technical I could say that (at least according to reports) the Broncos owner, COO and future VP of Football Operations apparently like him too so that must speak to their knowledge on things like footbal personnel which is scary in itself.

As for DeCosta, he is plenty capable of being the General Manager of the Denver Broncos. He has worked all the way from the bottom. I do mean the BOTTOM, He was an intern under Charles Casserly with the Redskins and shortly after he was interviewing with Scott Pioli and Ozzie Newsome to get a low level position with the just moved from Cleveland... Baltimore Ravens. Look where he is now, he is Director of Player Personnel. Look you don't get promoted through the ranks like that if your not a good talent evaluator, much less have guys like Charles Casserly, Scott Pioli, Ozzie Newsome hiring you to be part of their staff. Needless to say, these guys aren't idiots when it comes to building football teams.

I'm sure DeCosta has worked plenty hard to work his way up the system. Just as Josh McDaniels started as a virtual intern for Nick Saban and eventually a quality control coach for Bill Belichick all the way up to Offensive Coordinator for the most prolific offense in the NFL. Obviously those guys aren't idiots when it comes to building coaching staffs. More applicably, Savage also began his career as an intern, later a lower level scout in Belichick's Cleveland days. He then spent years doing the grunt work in Baltimore as Newsome laid down the foundation for the team that would win the Super Bowl. Savage was then promoted up to the Ravens #2 spot in the front office before finally getting his shot as the lead man with the Browns which was an epic failure. Kohinis, meanwhile, also started as an intern with Cleveland before graduating as an entry-level scout. He then moved into the front office as an Assistant Director of Pro Personnel before moving into Savage's old #2 spot for five long seasons. He then finally got his crack at the top spot, lasting a whopping 7 games as GM before geting the boot. Now this in no way means Eric Decosta couldn't be a competent GM, but the fact is following the near exact same timeline with the same franchise scares the **** out of me. And while I'm in no way advocating that pizza delivery boy Xanders be named the GM, you could argue his 17-year journey that began as lower-level scout, includes time on the coaching staff of an NFC-title team and culminated working his way up the front office ladder to GM is somewhat comparable. Again that said, with all the risks the Broncos have taken and been burned on recently - and another one I'm not too optimistic on in Elway - I personally prefer they go with a guy who has been the top man before instead of hoping Decosta is the wonderboy who will break the Ravens trend of failing assistant GMs just as they hoped McDaniels would break the Patriots trend of failing assistant coaches.

There's no doubt that Ozzie deserves credit for the Ravens consistent winning ways over the years but if you really knew what DeCosta did with the Ravens when he got promoted, he wasn't all inspired by Ozzie. DeCosta has a specific grading system for drafting and also for pro personnel.

I'm sure DeCosta had plenty to do with the Ravens' success. In fact, a high school buddy of mine who now works in Owings Mills told me such. But what scares me is I heard the same things about Savage and Kohinis. I was in Ohio trying to get internships at sports-talk stations when all the talk was about the Browns going after these guys and how they were instrumental in the Ravens success and they were going to come pattern the Browns like the Ravens (which is actually quite ironic considering the Ravens were the Browns before they moved). Decosta's journey as a personnel guy just parallels McDaniels' as a coach in so many ways that it scares me to death as a fan. And I like Josh...

And it's something he's wanted to do since he was 7 years old. He always has a vision and an explanation of how he builds a team. That's something the Broncos need

Oh dear god it's the Josh story all over again... lol

What the Broncos do not need, is somebody that had no authority whatsoever under 2 different coaches, and is now currently making the local media rounds to try and save his job.

This we can agree with! Xanders and Decosta are a little too risky for my blood but if either are hired I'll obviously hope for the best.

Personally, my wish would be John simply comes on in a consulting/PR role and we hire Casserly as GM to go with Mularkey as HC and a solid set of coordinators in Musgrave and Wade or M.Lewis (depending if Casserly wanted to go 4-3 or 3-4). Not the sexiest names but solid guys with experience in those roles who could help begin the process of rebuilding the franchise.

Unfortantly, my gut feeling is John comes in as the lead guy and defacto GM, Xanders stays in his title as a consultant to #7 along with Matt Russell (who I really like) and Keith Kidd, and the Broncos hire a familiar name like Kubiak or Fassel to run the show. I don't know how successful it will be, but that's my guess.

montrose
12-28-2010, 04:52 PM
By the way, I drove by the Ravens facility today (I'm home visiting my parents and they live near by), I yelled out the window "Eric DeCosta save us! My friend Jeff needs you!" There was a couple walking their dog that looked at me like a crazy person, lol.

24champ
12-28-2010, 06:52 PM
Is it? Considering one of the most common arguements brought up for why hiring Josh McDaniels was a mistake is the failure of the other assistants that left NE before him... I'm not saying every team should rule out candidates that come from failing trees, just the Broncos - right now. The franchise is in such a set of chaos I'd rather they bring in a guy with proven GM experience to at least get the ship going in the right direction

Yes it is, we hired Shanahan from the Walsh tree, I'd say that worked out well for us. Scott Pioli is doing well for the Chiefs and he came from the Belichick/Parcells tree. Bill Belichick came from the Parcells tree. We shouldn't shy away from some football savvy folks just because they come from a certain tree and yes those trees have had their share of failures too.

I'd rather discuss their resumes and forget what tree they come from because the bottom line is that guys like DeCosta and Grigson play an integral part on their FO team which does extremely well in drafting and signing free agents. They know what talent looks like, and knows what red flags to look for, too.

I'm sure DeCosta has worked plenty hard to work his way up the system. Just as Josh McDaniels started as a virtual intern for Nick Saban and eventually a quality control coach for Bill Belichick all the way up to Offensive Coordinator for the most prolific offense in the NFL. Obviously those guys aren't idiots when it comes to building coaching staffs. More applicably, Savage also began his career as an intern, later a lower level scout in Belichick's Cleveland days. He then spent years doing the grunt work in Baltimore as Newsome laid down the foundation for the team that would win the Super Bowl. Savage was then promoted up to the Ravens #2 spot in the front office before finally getting his shot as the lead man with the Browns which was an epic failure. Kohinis, meanwhile, also started as an intern with Cleveland before graduating as an entry-level scout. He then moved into the front office as an Assistant Director of Pro Personnel before moving into Savage's old #2 spot for five long seasons. He then finally got his crack at the top spot, lasting a whopping 7 games as GM before geting the boot.

With respect to your post on Savage and Kokinis, they worked under a very retarded owner in Lerner. Probably the worst in the NFL. Holmgren won't turn that ship around and rumors are already circulating he might bolt Cleveland. Savage is also a good talent evaluator and working for the Eagles now alongside Grigson and Kokinis is back with the Ravens.


Now this in no way means Eric Decosta couldn't be a competent GM, but the fact is following the near exact same timeline with the same franchise scares the **** out of me. And while I'm in no way advocating that pizza delivery boy Xanders be named the GM, you could argue his 17-year journey that began as lower-level scout, includes time on the coaching staff of an NFC-title team and culminated working his way up the front office ladder to GM is somewhat comparable. Again that said, with all the risks the Broncos have taken and been burned on recently - and another one I'm not too optimistic on in Elway - I personally prefer they go with a guy who has been the top man before instead of hoping Decosta is the wonderboy who will break the Ravens trend of failing assistant GMs just as they hoped McDaniels would break the Patriots trend of failing assistant coaches.

Like Drek has mentioned prior to this post, Xanders hasn't overseen nor built a personnel department and others have done the leg work in scouting. His resume simply doesn't stack up to the likes of Grigson or DeCosta.



I'm sure DeCosta had plenty to do with the Ravens' success. In fact, a high school buddy of mine who now works in Owings Mills told me such. But what scares me is I heard the same things about Savage and Kohinis. I was in Ohio trying to get internships at sports-talk stations when all the talk was about the Browns going after these guys and how they were instrumental in the Ravens success and they were going to come pattern the Browns like the Ravens (which is actually quite ironic considering the Ravens were the Browns before they moved). Decosta's journey as a personnel guy just parallels McDaniels' as a coach in so many ways that it scares me to death as a fan. And I like Josh...

As I said before, the Browns have a dumb owner that waffles and fires people before anything can be built. That kind of instability isn't going to translate into a successful franchise in the long run...and that's kind of the trap the Broncos could fall into. I hope they can figure out a long term plan and stick with it. As far as McDaniels goes, he will be an exceptional coach and posters like Kupesdad have noted that his son learned more under McDaniels than at any other time in his football career combined. It is what it is, McDaniels couldn't overcome Spygate II and the heat was too much for Bowlen. It's unfortunate and a loss for both sides but the Broncos need to move on.



This we can agree with! Xanders and Decosta are a little too risky for my blood but if either are hired I'll obviously hope for the best.

Personally, my wish would be John simply comes on in a consulting/PR role and we hire Casserly as GM to go with Mularkey as HC and a solid set of coordinators in Musgrave and Wade or M.Lewis (depending if Casserly wanted to go 4-3 or 3-4). Not the sexiest names but solid guys with experience in those roles who could help begin the process of rebuilding the franchise.

Unfortantly, my gut feeling is John comes in as the lead guy and defacto GM, Xanders stays in his title as a consultant to #7 along with Matt Russell (who I really like) and Keith Kidd, and the Broncos hire a familiar name like Kubiak or Fassel to run the show. I don't know how successful it will be, but that's my guess.

I think Casserly has been out of the game for too long and is a little too old. I would like it if we can bring him in as a consultant or as a GM with someone young to groom to take over. I'm not too concerned with who the Head Coach is going to be, just need to find a FO that can find talent to put on this team.

vercingetorix
12-28-2010, 07:56 PM
Because he is to Ozzie Newsome what Josh McDaniels was to Bill Belichick. I want no part of the Ravens front office tree just as no team should want a Patriots Assistant coach without Belichick. Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini and McDaniels have all failed as Head Coaches after leaving Belichick; while Phil Savage and George Kohinis were miserable failures as General Managers after leaving Newsome. Decosta could be successful on his own but its just as much a risk bringing him in as GM as it would be hiring another Belichick assistant as HC.

In fact, I'd argue Belichick-tree coaches are MORE successful as HCs than Newsome-tree executives are as GMs. The secret is Newsome, not his assistants.

What makes you so sure DeCosta doesnt deserve most of the credit?

montrose
12-28-2010, 09:09 PM
What makes you so sure DeCosta doesnt deserve most of the credit?

He deserves some of the credit, sure. But that's like saying what makes us so sure Charlie Weis doesn't deserve most of the credit for NE's success. Or Romeo Crenell. Or, okay I've gotta say it, Josh McDaniels.

Again, I'm sure Eric DeCosta has a terrific resume and he may be an outstanding GM - it just scares me a bit. And I agree completely with Champ24 that it may be a bit unfair to group McDaniels with the other NE assistants as failures due to his extenuating circumstances.

Boomhauer
12-28-2010, 09:26 PM
...Xanders was responsible for bringing in all the good rookies and FAs the last few years and McD was the one who overruled him in deciding to bring in all the busts. X Man said so himself.

Xanders' authority is toast and this article reinforces Woody's lack of credibility. Wasn't Elway supposed to be announced as part of the FO and savior to the organization a week ago - than in 'two or three days' two or three days ago - than 'sometime next week' today? I'm a bit hesitant, though wouldn't be surprised, about Elway as part of the FO, but there's no chance in he[[ Xanders stays around as anything but a secretary in accounting or scout in Alberta.

vercingetorix
12-28-2010, 09:28 PM
He deserves some of the credit, sure. But that's like saying what makes us so sure Charlie Weis doesn't deserve most of the credit for NE's success. Or Romeo Crenell. Or, okay I've gotta say it, Josh McDaniels.

Again, I'm sure Eric DeCosta has a terrific resume and he may be an outstanding GM - it just scares me a bit. And I agree completely with Champ24 that it may be a bit unfair to group McDaniels with the other NE assistants as failures due to his extenuating circumstances.

No, Im just saying, how do we know DeCosta hasnt been propping up Newsome and the credit that has been given to Newsome has been misplaced? Hasnt DeCosta pretty much been the key personnel guy/scout under Newsome going back to the mid 90s?

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.