PDA

View Full Version : Are we a Better 4-3 Team?


rugbythug
12-26-2010, 08:29 AM
Ayers-DE
Vickerson-DT
??-DT
Rookie Bowers-DE

DJ Williams-WOLB
Joe Mays-ILB
Elvis-SOLB

????

A similar look to the Super Bowl Cardinals with Chiki Okeafor at SOLB. Or The Giants with Kiwanuka.

footstepsfrom#27
12-26-2010, 08:38 AM
Good question. Elvis struggles as a 4-3 guy since he'll have to play on the line where he gets worn down, and he's the only real pass rusher we have, so I don't think we're better as a 4-3 team. I like Joe Mays but I don't know if he's more than a situational guy untill we see more of him. DJ's out of position anywhere but the weakside LB spot, and that's where we need Elvis too.

Popps
12-26-2010, 08:41 AM
Ditto on Elvis. If we switch, we'd be downgrading one of our best weapons.

Conversely, if Fairly comes out and we draft him... you might make an argument that the give/take with Dumervil would be worth it.

I'm hoping we just stick with the 3/4. We've got to get some stability somewhere... at some point. Can't just keep changing everything every season.

chrisp
12-26-2010, 08:43 AM
I've thought about this myself. The biggest argument for the 3-4 so far is that Elvis really flourished in that alignment. The biggest argument against is that we don't seem to be able to get 3-4 d-line sorted out.

I'm also thinking that marcus thomas may be a lot better off as a 4-3 DT than as a 3-4 DE.

Bottom line is, we don't have much on defense so there's not a strong argument for or against anything. However, those few decent front-seven players we have are all at the linebacker spot, and the organisation has invested a lot of money in Elvis so you would think that we would stick to the 3-4 and concentrate on building a d-line to go with it.

What really frustrates me is that we didn't invest any mid-round picks in trying to get 3-4 linemen to develop for the future - we tried to get them all through FA...look how that worked out....

tsiguy96
12-26-2010, 08:45 AM
haggan has been the best LB this year

rugbythug
12-26-2010, 08:46 AM
Elvis at SOLB gives us the Best of Both worlds. He is not sitting Head up on a tackle so He has the ability to come from where ever. Once we go nickle he takes a step forward. IMO it would be the Best use of our Personal at this point. Giving us the ability to mask ourselves better than we have been doing.

rugbythug
12-26-2010, 08:47 AM
haggan has been the best LB this year

That is much like being the least Aids Infected spitting Cobra dildo.

rugbythug
12-26-2010, 08:49 AM
Why is it changing Dil do to Dilrod?

Broncoman13
12-26-2010, 09:04 AM
Good question. Elvis struggles as a 4-3 guy since he'll have to play on the line where he gets worn down, and he's the only real pass rusher we have, so I don't think we're better as a 4-3 team. I like Joe Mays but I don't know if he's more than a situational guy untill we see more of him. DJ's out of position anywhere but the weakside LB spot, and that's where we need Elvis too.

Elvis doesn't struggle as a 4-3 end. He struggles vs the run and that is regardless of whether he is a DE or OLB. He is a pass rush specialist and should be played as such.

That is why I said a switch to a 4-3, draft Bowers to bookend with Ayers. Bring Doom in on obvious passing downs to be an edge rusher. Ayers can slide inside as he has done previously (and been effective).

We are in no-mans land right now. We aren't any closer to being a 3-4 than we are a 4-3. This draft looks to have more talent in a 4-3 front. We should consider a move to a 4-3 if it makes the most sense and allows us to maximize our draft value.

vercingetorix
12-26-2010, 09:09 AM
Its easier to play a 4-3 from a 3-4 base than it is to play a 3-4 out of a 4-3 base.

tsiguy96
12-26-2010, 09:22 AM
That is much like being the least Aids Infected spitting Cobra dilrod.

haggan has had a good year no need to downplay it.

meangene
12-26-2010, 09:38 AM
DE - Elvis
DT - Fairley
DT - Bannan / Vickerson
DE - Ayers
WOLB - DJ
MLB - Mayes
SOLB - Haggan

I like this 4-3 look for us.

montrose
12-26-2010, 09:45 AM
Broncoman13 hit the nail on the head, outside of Joe Mays (who while a pleasant suprise isn't anyone to command building a defense around) there isn't a player who'll be around next year that commands staying in the 3-4 if the new coach prefers a 4-3 scheme. In fact, Ayers is probably a better 4-3 DE than 3-4 OLB.

In terms of Doom - those sacks in 2009 didn't come as much because he was in a 2-point stance as a OLB but that he was fresher since he wasn't being targeted in the run game on 1st and 2nd downs as easily. If we draft Bowers, he and Ayers could pair as the "starting DEs" with Doom being used on 3rd downs - and I'd argue Elvis would be MORE effective playing LESS downs.

Either scheme would be fine depending on the coach but my guess is that we stick in a 3-4 with Wade as DC.

TonyR
12-26-2010, 09:52 AM
...my guess is that we stick in a 3-4 with Wade as DC.

Wade Phillips? You think there's a chance he comes bac to Denver? I'd be all for it but I don't see it.

Bigdawg26
12-26-2010, 10:12 AM
I think we are really flexible because we aren't that good of a 3-4 defense as it is because we don't have to many solid parts. I would love to see us in a hybrid defense like baltimore has where we can use Elvis like they use Suggs.

spdirty
12-26-2010, 10:14 AM
Yeah, I think we are a better 4-3 team until we get a legit nose tackle.

montrose
12-26-2010, 10:45 AM
Wade Phillips? You think there's a chance he comes bac to Denver? I'd be all for it but I don't see it.

Just a gut feeling with John, Kubes and Fassel coming on board.

peacepipe
12-26-2010, 11:25 AM
**** the 4-3 defense we did for over a decade & how successful was it for us. denver just has to commit to it. As i've stated before look at the top defenses out there Pitt,San Diego, Balt. all teams that run 3-4 def.

Broncos_OTM
12-26-2010, 11:26 AM
Just a gut feeling with John, Kubes and Fassel coming on board.

But if we go with phillips i think we would stay as a 3-4. And whats your perfefct scenario as far as GM

Broncos_OTM
12-26-2010, 11:27 AM
**** the 4-3 defense we did for over a decade & how successful was it for us. denver just has to commit to it. As i've stated before look at the top defenses out there Pitt,San Diego, Balt. all teams that run 3-4 def.

Did you realize we have set records for our attrocious D which is a 3-4

peacepipe
12-26-2010, 11:27 AM
Yeah, I think we are a better 4-3 team until we get a legit nose tackle.You don't throw away entire scheme over one position.

spdirty
12-26-2010, 11:28 AM
**** the 4-3 defense we did for over a decade & how successful was it for us. denver just has to commit to it. As i've stated before look at the top defenses out there Pitt,San Diego, Balt. all teams that run 3-4 def.

we won't be **** in the 3-4 till we find the nose tackle.

Likwid Kerruj
12-26-2010, 11:33 AM
Right now, anything goes with the front seven.

peacepipe
12-26-2010, 11:35 AM
Did you realize we have set records for our attrocious D which is a 3-4 this is only our 2nd yr in the 3-4w/ 2 differant DCs.
Besides IDK where you've been the last decade+ but our team defense was FAR WORSE in the 4-3. there used to be a time while in the 4-3 that if there was a record to be broken it was done against denvers 4-3 defense. ie rich gannan & his consecutive completion rec.,who was on the bengals that broke the rushing record against our vaunted 4-3 defense.

Broncos_OTM
12-26-2010, 11:38 AM
this is only our 2nd yr in the 3-4w/ 2 differant DCs.
Besides IDK where you've been the last decade+ but our team defense was FAR WORSE in the 4-3. there used to be a time while in the 4-3 that if there was a record to be broken it was done against denvers 4-3 defense. ie rich gannan & his consecutive completion rec.,who was on the bengals that broke the rushing record against our vaunted 4-3 defense.

We gave up how many points agisnt the raiders this year? which is like 2nd most of all time. 2 games 1000 yards. yeah i think it is compareable in how horrible.

peacepipe
12-26-2010, 11:38 AM
we won't be **** in the 3-4 till we find the nose tackle.doesn't mean you scrap an entire scheme over it.

Broncos_OTM
12-26-2010, 11:41 AM
You don't throw away entire scheme over one position.

NT's make the 3-4 scheme by and large. nor do we have 3-4 ends that are quality. No real great NT prospects this year comeing out. Which means another year of suck.

i like the 3-4 it is my favorite defense by far. We just dont have the personel to run it

Broncos_OTM
12-26-2010, 11:42 AM
doesn't mean you scrap an entire scheme over it.

How do you purpose we fix it. From what i can see it will be a quicker rebuild going back to the 4-3

peacepipe
12-26-2010, 11:47 AM
How do you purpose we fix it. From what i can see it will be a quicker rebuild going back to the 4-3Your telling me it is quicker to find 4 good DLineman,then it is to find 1 legit NT.you can draft a NT in this comming draft.

it's an easy fix: DRAFT A NOSE TACKLE IT ISN"T HARD TO DO.

Likwid Kerruj
12-26-2010, 11:48 AM
I've always liked the 4-3 better because you can hide lesser grade defensive linemen easier.

Unless you have a blocker eating NT, you might as well forget running a 3-4.

Boomhauer
12-26-2010, 04:22 PM
I've always liked the 4-3 better because you can hide lesser grade defensive linemen easier.
Unless you have a blocker eating NT, you might as well forget running a 3-4.

True, but the 4-3 requires a stud SLB. The Broncos should run the 4-4...
DL: Vickerson - Bannan - Thomas - Doom
ILB: Haggan/Mays/somebody - DJ

While we have the CBs for Nickle, Woodyard is the only one on the roster that can play one of the two OLB/SS positions in the 4-4. Fortunately, there are tons of very good 225-230lb OLBs in every draft that can cover like a SS and seal the run like a LB, but are considered too small for the 4-3 in the NFL. Another option is freakishly large SSs like Josh Barret.

We have a very good CF for the 4-4 in Hill and have looked at Squid as his back-up, but we should check the draft or FA for a faster Ed Reed-type CF that can shut down slot in man and with the vision/speed to stride in deep coverage.