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*WARHORSE*
12-25-2010, 10:39 AM
Remember now, Elway is 90% chance going to be in the front office.
He responds.....


Even if the Broncos do land the No. 1 overall pick, they would have to then decide whether Tim Tebow, a first-round pick in April, is their QB of the future or if they would draft the more passing-polished Luck.
Elway was asked as a Broncos' fan, not an executive, what he would do if such a scenario were presented.
"That's a big question," Elway said on his radio show. "I'll tell you this: I think Andrew Luck is the best football player in the draft, without a doubt. If that were to happen, then you're going have to have some very serious conversations of exactly which direction you want to go, whether it's with Tim or take a guy like Andrew Luck. To me, barring injury, he's going to be very successful in the NFL."


Read more: Broncos, Elway still talking - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16939597#ixzz199LZNJy6
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

HAT
12-25-2010, 10:44 AM
Pretty surprised he hedged like that.

rbackfactory80
12-25-2010, 10:44 AM
Translation: LUCK WILL BE A BRONCO IF THE OPPORTUNITY IS PRESENTED.

epicSocialism4tw
12-25-2010, 10:45 AM
This is the last thing we need. If Elway begins his Broncos career by taking another QB for a QB-rich team, then we're really going to have to start questioning his decision-making ability in the front office.

The last thing this team needs is another QB. Its absolutely the last thing that the team needs.

Draft defense for once, please. We have basically sucked on defense for a good 6 years. Draft defense. Forget the shiny QB. Draft defense.

Spider
12-25-2010, 10:51 AM
Luck might be better , but i would take my chances with Tebow ....... Tebow has more then just talent , He lifted that entire team last sunday , defense played better , Special teams did , and offense ..... not enough to win the game , but the degree that the players played was noticeable.....If u just watched the Broncos for the first time this season , you would have swore it was Tebows team

epicSocialism4tw
12-25-2010, 10:52 AM
All of this is academic though, because there's no way that the Broncos end up with the first pick in the draft. I bet that we win one of our last two and that Carolina doesnt win another game.

epicSocialism4tw
12-25-2010, 10:53 AM
Luck might be better , but i would take my chances with Tebow ....... Tebow has more then just talent , He lifted that entire team last sunday , defense played better , Special teams did , and offense ..... not enough to win the game , but the degree that the players played was noticeable.....If u just watched the Broncos for the first time this season , you would have swore it was Tebows team

I think that you caught on to the spirit of the team last week. Over the course of the game, you could tell that guys were buying in.

He earns respect, and he enjoys doing it.

oubronco
12-25-2010, 10:53 AM
We need defense in the worst way but if you have a chance at the next elite QB to hit the NFL I don't see how you could pass on him

epicSocialism4tw
12-25-2010, 10:55 AM
We need defense in the worst way but if you have a chance at the next elite QB to hit the NFL I don't see how you could pass on him

We may have the next elite QB already.

I dont see how anyone can look at Tebow's first performance and think that the guy doesnt have what it takes and then some. Nobody knows whats in store for Luck, but Tebow's future looks bright.

TonyR
12-25-2010, 10:57 AM
If Elway begins his Broncos career by taking another QB for a QB-rich team...

Well the question is whether or not we're really "QB rich". If they decide Tebow isn't the answer then passing on Luck could be a colossal mistake.

spdirty
12-25-2010, 10:58 AM
Just hope we are in a position to get Luck. Then we can either go with him or trade the pick for some nice stuff. Either way we will be in position for a quicker rebuild.

Sodak
12-25-2010, 10:58 AM
All of this is academic though, because there's no way that the Broncos end up with the first pick in the draft. I bet that we win one of our last two and that Carolina doesnt win another game.

I don't think Carolina will take another QB either.

epicSocialism4tw
12-25-2010, 11:01 AM
Well the question is whether or not we're really "QB rich". If they decide Tebow isn't the answer then passing on Luck could be a colossal mistake.

Not necessarily, because Orton is here.

I highly doubt that the Broncos will decide that Tebow isnt the answer. I have no doubt that the Tebow you saw last Sunday will only grow over the course of the last three games. They have a first round pick invested in him. Bailing out of a promising player for less than his worth is the same type of ridiculous management mistake that marked the McD era. If we go back in that direction, it may be time to call Elway "Matt Millen".

oubronco
12-25-2010, 11:02 AM
Sure Tebow looked alright but he keeps running like that all the time and he won't make it a full season and we haven't seen him as a throwing QB yet so we'll have to wait to see if he can be an elite QB in the NFL and I feel Luck is an elite passing QB

Pony Boy
12-25-2010, 11:02 AM
The decision is completly in Tebow's hands not Elways.... all Tebow needs to do is win.

epicSocialism4tw
12-25-2010, 11:03 AM
I don't think Carolina will take another QB either.

They will before we will. Clausen hasnt look like half the player Tebow has, and they need to inject some life into their franchise.

epicSocialism4tw
12-25-2010, 11:10 AM
The decision is completly in Tebow's hands not Elways.... all Tebow needs to do is win.

I dont think its that simple. Tebow had the Broncos in position to win the game in Oakland, and Tebow was dictating terms until McCoy decided to give the Raiders 2 points and the ball back. Then they put the game out of reach by smacking around our lazy defense. If Hall catches that TD pass, and the Broncos dont give up a safety...thats a Broncos win.

Tebow needs the rest of the team playing with some excitement, which is unlikely because the franchise is so jacked up that nobody knows which way is up. They dont know who or what theyre playing for.

If Tebow pulls these guys together for a win amidst this chaos, it will be one of those transcendent moments in sports where the franchise changes directions.

Pony Boy
12-25-2010, 11:11 AM
I don't think Carolina will take another QB either.

Cam Newton would pack the stadium in Carolina..

baja
12-25-2010, 11:26 AM
The decision is completly in Tebow's hands not Elways.... all Tebow needs to do is win.

LOL That's a good point, win and no Luck

epicSocialism4tw
12-25-2010, 11:30 AM
Yeah, I just looked at the schedules and Carolina plays at Pittsburgh and at Atlanta to close out the season. They'll have the number one pick.

Cincy plays San Diego and at Baltimore.

I think Denver wins this week and then loses next week.

This is how it should end up:

1 Carolina 2-14
2 Cincinatti 3-13
3 Denver 4-12
4 Arizona 4-12
5 Buffalo 4-12
6 Detroit 4-12

I dont know how you divvy up slots to the 4-12 group, but it doesnt look like Denver will be in a position to draft Luck. Thank goodness that decision will be made for our weak front office.

RhymesayersDU
12-25-2010, 11:30 AM
They will before we will. Clausen hasnt look like half the player Tebow has, and they need to inject some life into their franchise.

This. I mean, it's all speculation but all the analysts have said Luck is going #1 no matter who picks. They've said Carolina specifically will since it would take a miracle for them not to be picking #1.

epicSocialism4tw
12-25-2010, 11:38 AM
This. I mean, it's all speculation but all the analysts have said Luck is going #1 no matter who picks. They've said Carolina specifically will since it would take a miracle for them not to be picking #1.

This isnt the NBA where you draft Blake Griffin, LeBarn James, or Tim Duncan with the first pick and then your franchise turns around.

"Sure things" bust all the time in the NFL. Remember Reggie Bush? You know...the sure thing? Yeah...he's a situational player. He's David Meggett. "Sure thing" Matt Leinart? Yeah. "Sure things" David Carr and Joey Harrington? The only thing certain with them is that they knew how to lose games and ride the pine.

There are no sure things in the NFL draft.

RhymesayersDU
12-25-2010, 11:44 AM
This isnt the NBA where you draft Blake Griffin, LeBarn James, or Tim Duncan with the first pick and then your franchise turns around.

"Sure things" bust all the time in the NFL. Remember Reggie Bush? You know...the sure thing? Yeah...he's a situational player. He's David Meggett. "Sure thing" Matt Leinart? Yeah. "Sure things" David Carr and Joey Harrington? The only thing certain with them is that they knew how to lose games and ride the pine.

There are no sure things in the NFL draft.

I wouldn't deny any of that. However, on Reggie Bush, people openly questioned whether he could run between the tackles. He was never a sure thing, he was just the best college football player at the time, coming off a historic season.

I'm just saying, the guy said Carolina won't take Luck. I was agreeing with you that they will, and it's basically a consensus on that issue.

epicSocialism4tw
12-25-2010, 11:56 AM
I wouldn't deny any of that. However, on Reggie Bush, people openly questioned whether he could run between the tackles. He was never a sure thing, he was just the best college football player at the time, coming off a historic season.

I'm just saying, the guy said Carolina won't take Luck. I was agreeing with you that they will, and it's basically a consensus on that issue.

Right.

That rant wasnt directed at you, it was directed at the mindless zombies who want to destroy the little momentum that the Broncos have to chase after chance. To chase after "Luck" if you will. Throwing their futures away like a bunch of old cigarette-smoking vietnamese women sitting at slot machines in smoke-filled indian casinos across the southwest.

SoCalBronco
12-25-2010, 12:12 PM
He doesn't have the qualifications to be making these decisions. Bowlen is a moron (as usual). I completely hate this arrangement. Stick to marketing, stay the **** out of the front office.

HAT
12-25-2010, 12:17 PM
Even if Carolina picks first and decides against Luck....It's not like he's going to "fall" to #2.

They'd pass for the same reasons Denver would....Lots of hole to fill, therefore, trade.

If Luck comes out, he's going #1, period. The only question is to who.

broncocalijohn
12-25-2010, 12:55 PM
Right.

That rant wasnt directed at you, it was directed at the mindless zombies who want to destroy the little momentum that the Broncos have to chase after chance. To chase after "Luck" if you will. Throwing their futures away like a bunch of old cigarette-smoking vietnamese women sitting at slot machines in smoke-filled indian casinos across the southwest.

I am going on record to say the first non-gator connected Omane poster who will go ape **** ala Orange 4 Life if we draft Luck or trade Tebow will be spic/mcskillet/drama llama.

peacepipe
12-25-2010, 01:09 PM
we're probably not going to beat houston or san diego, so the #2 spot is definately ours. there isn't a DL worth a #2 pick. either it's peterson,luck or they trade down.

peacepipe
12-25-2010, 01:17 PM
Another thing to consider is Atlanta falcons with a win this week will have home field advantage locked up & and rest all there starters against carolina the final week. The #1 pick in the draft could still be ours.

lostknight
12-25-2010, 01:20 PM
To keep value for the trade, then the Broncos have to convince people that they would consider luck.

But if they honestly do this, I swear I will renounce my season tickets right then and there.

RhymesayersDU
12-25-2010, 01:22 PM
To keep value for the trade, then the Broncos have to convince people that they would consider luck.

But if they honestly do this, I swear I will renounce my season tickets right then and there.

LOL no you won't. You'll throw a tantrum for about an hour and get over it. Every year somebody says "If X happens, I'll stop watching" and none of them ever do.

lostknight
12-25-2010, 01:32 PM
LOL no you won't. You'll throw a tantrum for about an hour and get over it. Every year somebody says "If X happens, I'll stop watching" and none of them ever do.

You misunderstand. I am not doing that to throw a fit, I am doing that because we will be a **** team for the next five years, as whomever the new leadership is clearly has failed to understand jack squat from the last two years.

There are plenty of other places for me to put my entertainment dollars. And guess what, the Rockies win consistently, and are in contention at the end of the season.

Lestat
12-25-2010, 03:43 PM
Luck is likely to be a elite player assuming he pans out. but you just took a 1st round QB in Tim Tebow. you can't really afford to break in a rookie with our D and pay 2 QB's 80 mil in total contracts. plus you still have to figure out what to do with Orton and Quinn.
it all comes down to who do you trust more with your franchise. because if you bring in a coach who has to have his guy at QB(which most offensive guys are)then i doubt he'll be satisfied with Tebow or Orton.
but at the same time... do you pass on Bowers,Dareus,Fairley or Peterson to take the franchise QB(if the Panthers pass on him) when you may already have someone who could be?

Lolad
12-25-2010, 04:10 PM
Luck is likely to be a elite player assuming he pans out. but you just took a 1st round QB in Tim Tebow. you can't really afford to break in a rookie with our D and pay 2 QB's 80 mil in total contracts. plus you still have to figure out what to do with Orton and Quinn.
it all comes down to who do you trust more with your franchise. because if you bring in a coach who has to have his guy at QB(which most offensive guys are)then i doubt he'll be satisfied with Tebow or Orton.
but at the same time... do you pass on Bowers,Dareus,Fairley or Peterson to take the franchise QB(if the Panthers pass on him) when you may already have someone who could be?

The salary form incoming players this year will be based on a rookie scale. He will not be seeing any money like what has happened in the past. I don't care who our QB is whoever gives us the best chance to win. A good defense can make any ordinary QB look good. So fix that first!

Popps
12-25-2010, 04:12 PM
You guys know John is soon to work in an NFL front office, right?

So, knowing that... why would you believe a word out of his mouth? He' just practicing his new job, which will be giving misinformation until draft day.

Of course he's going to gush about every potential top 5 pick. Standard stuff.

Hamrob
12-25-2010, 04:21 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/25/warren-sapp-rips-tim-tebow-by-ripping-two-ex-teammates/

Warren Sapp rips Tim Tebow by ripping two ex-teammates
Posted by Michael David Smith on December 25, 2010, 11:51 AM EST

On this week’s Inside the NFL, Warren Sapp was asked to assess Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow’s first start against the Oakland Raiders. And Sapp said he was decidedly unimpressed with Tebow — and with a couple of Sapp’s former Raiders teammates who played against Tebow on Sunday.

Sapp acknowledged that Tebow’s 33-yard touchdown pass to Brandon Lloyd may look impressive in the box score. But according to Sapp, that touchdown had little to do with Tebow and much to do with terrible coverage by the two Raiders defensive backs on the play.

“The one he threw in the end zone? Stanford Routt and Michael Huff played the worst I’ve ever seen two DBs play a pass,” Sapp said.

Routt and Huff both played with Sapp in Oakland. I have a feeling those ex-teammates won’t be exchanging Christmas gifts this year.

Sapp also dismissed Tebow’s other big play against the Raiders, a 40-yard touchdown run that Sapp said was actually a botched handoff on which Tebow got lucky.

“He’s running down the middle of the field on one of these missed handoffs that he forgets to hand off to the running back, then follows him in the hole,” Sapp said.

Overall, Sapp said, Tebow just didn’t look like a competent NFL quarterback.

“In 16 pass attempts he completed eight balls. Four of them were screens,” Sapp said. “If your quarterback cannot hand it off and then throws four screens of his eight completions? No. Back to the drawing board.”

TDmvp
12-25-2010, 04:24 PM
I don't think Carolina will take another QB either.

Clausen is the lowest ranked qb in the league I think ... I doubt they pass on Luck if he is their's to be had.

TDmvp
12-25-2010, 04:28 PM
we're probably not going to beat houston or san diego, so the #2 spot is definately ours. there isn't a DL worth a #2 pick. either it's peterson,luck or they trade down.

What about the other team with 3 wins ? if we tie with the Bengals who gets the 2nd pick ? The Bengals finish up with S.D. and then the Ravens . So I doubt they win again either. We could beat Houston.

BroncoSojia
12-25-2010, 04:30 PM
You guys know John is soon to work in an NFL front office, right?

So, knowing that... why would you believe a word out of his mouth? He' just practicing his new job, which will be giving misinformation until draft day.

Of course he's going to gush about every potential top 5 pick. Standard stuff.

Ha!

How would you react if we drafted Luck?

ant1999e
12-25-2010, 04:37 PM
I just got a Tebow jersey so they better keep him.

TDmvp
12-25-2010, 04:45 PM
I just got a Tebow jersey so they better keep him.

Laf , The Xmas before the Shanny firing and Jay leaving I got a autographed Cutler framed piece ... At least he went to a team I liked at one point.When I was like 5-10 Elway and Walter Payton was my fav players , and I loved the 85 Bears ... But after Payton retired I didn't really pay attention to them anymore.

Gives me a second team to at least pay attention to as long as they don't effect us.

Hamrob
12-25-2010, 04:50 PM
What about the other team with 3 wins ? if we tie with the Bengals who gets the 2nd pick ? The Bengals finish up with S.D. and then the Ravens . So I doubt they win again either. We could beat Houston.If we go no better than 1-1 over the next two games we are essentially guarenteed no worse than the 3rd pick. Why? Because we win the tie breaker against all the teams who have 5 wins or less...because our strength of schedule is the weakest.

So, if both the Bengals and Broncos lose their final 2 (and the Panthers lose to the Falcons) then we will get the #2 pick.

If we win 1 of our last two and the Bengals lose 2 (and the Panthers lose to the Falcons) then the Panthers will go 1, Bungals 2 and Broncos 3.

If we we lose our final 2 (and the Panthers beat the Falcons somehow)...then we get the #1 pick.

If we win our final two games...then we could end up with a 4 or 5 pick depending on the field.

I for one, don't think we'll do better than to win 1 of 2 and therefore we will get at least the #3...probably the #2...and with alot of luck and prayers for the Falcons to lose...maybe the #1.

TDmvp
12-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Thx Ham...

Hamrob
12-25-2010, 04:59 PM
Here is something that hasn't been talked about alot as of yet:

Before the 2010 NCAA Football Season...Luck was not ranked ahead of these two guys:

Jake Locker
Ryan Mallett

In fact, had Locker came out last year...he may have been drafted in the top 5...maybe even ahead of Bradford. Both the Huskies and Razorbacks fielded piss poor teams this year...thus, their QB's dropped in the eyes of the talent evaluators.

But, once the build up to the 2011 NFL draft begins...Locker will surely look like a beast throwing the ball and showing his atheletic abilities to all.

By the time the draft gets here...Luck will still be up there...but, how far back will Locker and Mallett be?

Mallett is a big guy with a big arm who is fairly mobile...ala Big Ben.

If all 3 guys and maybe even Newton tear up the combine/individual workouts...who knows...we may take one of the other QB's. OR...even, sitting at 2 or 3...someone might want to trade up to us to get their QB.

Baba Booey
12-25-2010, 08:01 PM
I like Tebow and am perfectly fine with us moving forward with him as the starter, but if you're in the position to draft a very special player like Luck, I don't think you pass it up.

Los Broncos
12-25-2010, 08:07 PM
Forget Luck already, this defense needs to be fixed or were never going anywhere.

footstepsfrom#27
12-25-2010, 08:26 PM
Just hope we are in a position to get Luck. Then we can either go with him or trade the pick for some nice stuff. Either way we will be in position for a quicker rebuild.
Carolina has to beat Atlanta on the road to equal Denver's win total, while the Broncos lose out with Houston and San Diego. The only way we get in position to draft Luck is by trading up a spot, which is pretty unlikely.

outdoor_miner
12-25-2010, 08:29 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/25/warren-sapp-rips-tim-tebow-by-ripping-two-ex-teammates/

Sapp also dismissed Tebow’s other big play against the Raiders, a 40-yard touchdown run that Sapp said was actually a botched handoff on which Tebow got lucky.

“He’s running down the middle of the field on one of these missed handoffs that he forgets to hand off to the running back, then follows him in the hole,” Sapp said.

It sucks so bad when a quarterback can turn a broken play into a touchdown. I was pretty disappointed in that, too... :thumbsup:

lostknight
12-25-2010, 08:31 PM
I wouldn't mind trading Luck for someone's entire draft. Short of that. We have needs at virtually every D position, and TE and FB to boot.

Likwid Kerruj
12-25-2010, 08:35 PM
Carolina has to beat Atlanta on the road to equal Denver's win total, while the Broncos lose out with Houston and San Diego. The only way we get in position to draft Luck is by trading up a spot, which is pretty unlikely.

If Atlanta wins this week, they clinch homefield.

You'd have to think their starters will get some rest in the finale.

Carolina is so bad though, the Falcons second stringers can probably hold them off, so it may be a moot point.

ZONA
12-25-2010, 08:58 PM
My friends, this is exactly why you start Tebow the next 2 games. If he inspires the team like he did last week, that's a good sign. But I would certainly game plan for Tebow to throw it more so we can see more of that aspect of his game. We already know the dude can QB draw it for 40 yards and a TD. He did that in college and he's done in the NFL. He's got Luck beat in that department and I don't think anybody is going to question is work ethic and his leadership so Luck won't beat him in those departments either. Basically, you are saying it's worth your first pick to take a guy who throws better. You certainly aren't going to see any 40 yard TD runs from Luck.

But back to the point, you see just what Tebow can do over the next 2 games and that should give the Broncos more to base that decision on. But I still think Luck goes #1 to Carolina and you certainly don't pick Cam who is essentially Tebow. Not a hard choice at all to go for DL with the first several picks. So much of what they do dictates how well the rest of the guys behind them can do. No pressure, no run stuffing means the DB's have to cover longer and also help make more tackles.

TDmvp
12-25-2010, 09:00 PM
My friends, this is exactly why you start Tebow the next 2 games. If he inspires the team like he did last week, that's a good sign. But I would certainly game plan for Tebow to throw it more so we can see more of that aspect of his game. We already know the dude can QB draw it for 40 yards and a TD. He did that in college and he's done in the NFL. He's got Luck beat in that department and I don't think anybody is going to question is work ethic and his leadership so Luck won't beat him in those departments either. Basically, you are saying it's worth your first pick to take a guy who throws better. You certainly aren't going to see any 40 yard TD runs from Luck.

But back to the point, you see just what Tebow can do over the next 2 games and that should give the Broncos more to base that decision on. But I still think Luck goes #1 to Carolina and you certainly don't pick Cam who is essentially Tebow. Not a hard choice at all to go for DL with the first several picks. So much of what they do dictates how well the rest of the guys behind them can do. No pressure, no run stuffing means the DB's have to cover longer and also help make more tackles.

:thumbsup:

yerner
12-25-2010, 09:04 PM
If it was my call it's a no brainer. You draft Luck and hope Tebow shows enough in the next two games to get a couple good picks for him. The qb talent isn't even close between the two. All the leadership hyperbole aside, Luck is a possible genrational type player who only needs to learn the professional game. Tebow is still a project that has to learn the basics of throwing the ball.

Broncos4tw
12-25-2010, 09:13 PM
Luck would be a great pick imo. Unfortunately there is about no chance we will get him. We will not have the first pick, and the first pick will absolutely get him.

We can pick up some very solid D in the early 2nd, 3rd and even 4th. We get Doom back next year. Luck is a once in a decade chance - because typically, we are never in a position to get this sort of QB, unless we had a really weird, off year.. like the year we got Elway.. and this year. If we could get Luck.. you grab him imo. In a heartbeat.

Do teams stay awake at night worrying about how to stop a defense? Or do they stay awake at night trying to figure out how to beat a franchise QB? QBs are what give teams nightmares. Defenses.. rarely. We need a good D.. not the next Ravens D. If we had Luck, a solid D would get it done.

ZONA
12-25-2010, 09:16 PM
If it was my call it's a no brainer. You draft Luck and hope Tebow shows enough in the next two games to get a couple good picks for him. The qb talent isn't even close between the two. All the leadership hyperbole aside, Luck is a possible genrational type player who only needs to learn the professional game. Tebow is still a project that has to learn the basics of throwing the ball.

Yeah but there is ALWAYS that NFL vs COLLEGE thing in the back of your mind if you're a GM. There have been other great college QB's such as Luck that have flat out bombed in the NFL and I'm sure there were man forum fans claiming those players as "generational" or " sure thing". You just never know. At least with Tebow, you've seen a little bit of what he can do in the NFL. And when you say "QB talent" that doesn't just mean passing. You can't just discount the fact that Tebow is a real threat with his feet. So much so that NFL defenses really have to game plan for that aspect. You probably won't see many LB's leaving the "box" against him. That means softer coverage. But all this talk is a bit premature. We'll see what Tebow can do the next 2 games. It just might give us a better picture of where he's at.

yerner
12-25-2010, 09:28 PM
Yeah but there is ALWAYS that NFL vs COLLEGE thing in the back of your mind if you're a GM. There have been other great college QB's such as Luck that have flat out bombed in the NFL and I'm sure there were man forum fans claiming those players as "generational" or " sure thing". You just never know. At least with Tebow, you've seen a little bit of what he can do in the NFL. And when you say "QB talent" that doesn't just mean passing. You can't just discount the fact that Tebow is a real threat with his feet. So much so that NFL defenses really have to game plan for that aspect. You probably won't see many LB's leaving the "box" against him. That means softer coverage. But all this talk is a bit premature. We'll see what Tebow can do the next 2 games. It just might give us a better picture of where he's at.

Just wait till the draft grades come out. Luck is going to surpass all of them since Peyton Manning. And I'm not going to conceed the rushing talent to Tebow quite yet either. Luck might actually be faster. His mobility is exceptional. Look, I'll be fine if they try to build around Tebow but a chance at Luck is franchise changing that if the broncos pass on it will be awful. I'm not sure you can't be bold and have both if the chance presents itself.

Archer81
12-25-2010, 10:00 PM
GM first...then HC...then OC/DC...then evaluating the talent on the roster and what adjustments need to be made to make the schemes work.

Some mutha****as are always trying to iceskate uphill...

:Broncos:

Cito Pelon
12-26-2010, 12:48 AM
There are so many variables in this equation at this point in time, it's useless to even speculate.

footstepsfrom#27
12-26-2010, 01:02 AM
If it was my call it's a no brainer. You draft Luck and hope Tebow shows enough in the next two games to get a couple good picks for him. The qb talent isn't even close between the two. All the leadership hyperbole aside, Luck is a possible genrational type player who only needs to learn the professional game. Tebow is still a project that has to learn the basics of throwing the ball.
Even if I accept your theory that the talent level between the two "isn't even close" (I don't), that's not the case you're making after you state this because you then refer to Tebow's mechanics here. Mechanics has nothing to do with talent. It's about coaching. On top of this, "leadership hyperbole" sounds like you dismiss that aspect from evaluating quarterbacks. I suggest this "hyperbole" is actually the meat and potatos of what makes a great NFL quarterback. It's not the great arm NFL teams should covet most, but the intangibles...those things you're knocking in other words. I can name alot of championship winning QB's who displayed leadership as one of their primary tools. Ryan Leaf comes to mind as an example of a guy who has the arm and the talent but lacked the intangibles you refer to as hyperbolic.

extralife
12-26-2010, 01:09 AM
QB mechanics are definitely a talent. If they weren't, everyone would look like Dan Marino or Drew Brees in the pocket.

footstepsfrom#27
12-26-2010, 01:11 AM
Just wait till the draft grades come out. Luck is going to surpass all of them since Peyton Manning. And I'm not going to conceed the rushing talent to Tebow quite yet either. Luck might actually be faster. His mobility is exceptional. Look, I'll be fine if they try to build around Tebow but a chance at Luck is franchise changing that if the broncos pass on it will be awful. I'm not sure you can't be bold and have both if the chance presents itself.
This isn't to say that the idea of drafting Luck might not be the right choice if we had that choice, which we almost certainly won't, and he might be the reincarnation of Sid Luckman or something but from what I"ve seen of Luck, he's nowhere close to Tebow as a runner. It's been repeated in here at length yet it continues to be ignored by people who want to portray Tebow as an athletic overachiever with minimal talent...but Tebow is a physical FREAK who dominated the combine's athletic drills. Dominated...as in he blew away his competition. His short distance sprints and change of direction scores were beating most of the RB's and DB's in the last draft, and the number of NFL QB's who break 4.7 in the forty is probably pretty small, and even less important. Only the Auburn kid in this draft compares to him as a runner.

footstepsfrom#27
12-26-2010, 01:15 AM
QB mechanics are definitely a talent. If they weren't, everyone would look like Dan Marino or Drew Brees in the pocket.
Mechanics are learned skills, not based on talent, much like the form of a jump shot in basketball. It's what your 9th grade PE teacher and your HS coach were supposed to instill in you if your dad hadn't already done so. I have perfect throwing mechanics with a football because I was TAUGHT at an early age.

You don't see me in the NFL do you?

Taco John
12-26-2010, 01:24 AM
The decision is completly in Tebow's hands not Elways.... all Tebow needs to do is win.

This is the way I feel about it. Tim Tebow is going to be the person who answers this question. He's got two games to go out and make his statement.

I believe that Tebow will finish this season with the strong case for having won the job outright.

This is some exciting stuff!

extralife
12-26-2010, 01:28 AM
You don't see me in the NFL do you?

I doubt you have "perfect mechanics," but even if you do--how many NFL QBs do? How many even have great mechanics? Hell, some have downright bad mechanics. Tebow, right now, is one of them. Learning and practicing will make you better at anything (yes, even speed), but they will only get you so far.

footstepsfrom#27
12-26-2010, 01:33 AM
I doubt you have "perfect mechanics," but even if you do--how many NFL QBs do? How many even have great mechanics? Hell, some have downright bad mechanics. Tebow, right now, is one of them. Learning and practicing will make you better at anything (yes, even speed), but they will only get you so far.
What aspect of athletic talent do you consider throwing mechanics to fall under? If something can be taught to kids, it's not based on talent, it's based on skill. Skill has little to do with talent either, and it's based on the time honored "practice makes perfect" idea.

You should see me throw the 4 yard out. :wiggle:

lostknight
12-26-2010, 05:37 AM
This is the way I feel about it. Tim Tebow is going to be the person who answers this question. He's got two games to go out and make his statement.

I believe that Tebow will finish this season with the strong case for having won the job outright.

This is some exciting stuff!

This is a fair enough point. We are so used to this team and these players failing to meet expectations that we already are assuming one direction or another. As I thought the other night watching Carolina, Clausen could have secured himself a job by winning - making it so the team couldn't draft luck.

With Tebow, it's a lot harder, but still fundamentally true. He can go out and win it, or make it so blinking obvious that even Xander realizes that they need defensive help.

dsmoot
12-26-2010, 05:54 AM
Mechanics are learned skills, not based on talent, much like the form of a jump shot in basketball. It's what your 9th grade PE teacher and your HS coach were supposed to instill in you if your dad hadn't already done so. I have perfect throwing mechanics with a football because I was TAUGHT at an early age.

You don't see me in the NFL do you?

There are a number of QB's in Canton w/o perfect mechanics or similar throwing motions. What is the common denominator? Probably what we can't see ... the thing between the ears and what is in their heart.

vercingetorix
12-26-2010, 06:49 AM
I doubt you have "perfect mechanics," but even if you do--how many NFL QBs do? How many even have great mechanics? Hell, some have downright bad mechanics. Tebow, right now, is one of them. Learning and practicing will make you better at anything (yes, even speed), but they will only get you so far.

The ability to make plays under duress when you cant have proper mechanics is one thing that differentiates QBs.

In the end, its probably more about what happens after it leaves the QBs hand than before. And the ability to raise the level of play of his teammates should never be underestimated.

elsid13
12-26-2010, 07:49 AM
This is the last thing we need. If Elway begins his Broncos career by taking another QB for a QB-rich team, then we're really going to have to start questioning his decision-making ability in the front office.

The last thing this team needs is another QB. Its absolutely the last thing that the team needs.

Draft defense for once, please. We have basically sucked on defense for a good 6 years. Draft defense. Forget the shiny QB. Draft defense.

I would disagree with you that this QB -rich team.

chrisp
12-26-2010, 08:21 AM
The biggest issue that we face here is that when you are drafting as high as we are going to be, you give up so much for the pick cap-wise that you have to draft a guy who is worth the pick.

This means that you can't draft for need: you work out which players, if any, you feel are worth a top-5 pick. You really need a sure-fire pro-bowler or you're guaranteeing a lot of money to an also-ran. What Elway has said here is that clearly he feels that Luck is one of those players - he's worth the pick. What he doesn't say is whether or not he feels there are any other players at any other positions also worth the pick.

..and to be fair to Elway, even if he's all-but started his new role (whatever it is) he won't have doen his full draft analysis yet and he won't know where exactly we're drafting, so he can't really answer the question fully.

Bottom line though, drafting Luck or not drafting Luck has nothing to do with what you think of Tebow...we didn't give up as much for him

HILife
12-26-2010, 08:34 AM
Translation: LUCK WILL BE A BRONCO IF THE OPPORTUNITY IS PRESENTED.

Translation: We are trying to create drama so we can trade back and get extra picks.

Lestat
12-26-2010, 08:48 AM
people are taking Elway's comments too far in assuming that he's gonna endorse drafting luck or even push for it over Tebow.
he was giving his honest assessment on the two. Luck is seen as the most NFL ready QB since Manning. we've seen how certain rookie QB's can change a team's fortune.

he's worked with Tebow, he's probably been around or worked with Luck as well.
if you take a HOF QB and ask him to compare and contrast the two then most are going to side with Luck and his potential due to his mechanics and cerebral nature.
Tebow is a unknown in the sense that there hasn't really been a QB like him that's stayed at QB before. he's got a funky delivery, he's built and runs like a FB.
Luck is the prototypical guy you want in a NFL QB.

so now you have to go conventional wisdom vs unknown commodity who could be the first of his kind.

Hogan11
12-26-2010, 09:08 AM
I would disagree with you that this QB -rich team.

It will be if they do take Luck.

Problem is, few outside of Broncoland believe in Tebow or Orton, so getting value for either of them is going to be a stretch if the new regime decides to put one or both on the block.

footstepsfrom#27
12-26-2010, 09:14 AM
There are a number of QB's in Canton w/o perfect mechanics or similar throwing motions. What is the common denominator? Probably what we can't see ... the thing between the ears and what is in their heart.
Exactly...fans think the intangibles are just icing on the cake, and the truth is they are most of the cake itself.

vancejohnson82
12-26-2010, 09:18 AM
all I know is that if this team drafts Cam Newton at 4 (where I think we will end up) then I give up with the front office...

and I also think the poster that said Tebow's fate is in his own hands is right....he wins a game or two and the job is his next year (sorry Orton)...he loses two and we have a QB controversy for a new coach...bad news

Hogan11
12-26-2010, 09:21 AM
all I know is that if this team drafts Cam Newton at 4 (where I think we will end up) then I give up with the front office...

and I also think the poster that said Tebow's fate is in his own hands is right....he wins a game or two and the job is his next year (sorry Orton)...he loses two and we have a QB controversy for a new coach...bad news

It's up to him to turn into either Mike Vick or Kordell Stewert.

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 10:08 AM
all I know is that if this team drafts Cam Newton at 4 (where I think we will end up) then I give up with the front office...

and I also think the poster that said Tebow's fate is in his own hands is right....he wins a game or two and the job is his next year (sorry Orton)...he loses two and we have a QB controversy for a new coach...bad news

The line of reasoning that says that Tebow must win to secure his job is a little short-sighted.

Would Sam Bradford have secured his job if the Rams had the same record this year as they did last year?

When you take a first round QB, you are investing in the development of that player.

Somehow I doubt that the Broncos' front office is considering the idea of dumping Tebow after three games.

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 10:09 AM
It's up to him to turn into either Mike Vick or Kordell Stewert.

Or Tim Tebow.

Likwid Kerruj
12-26-2010, 10:27 AM
If Luck is sitting there, you have to take him.

Unless Tebow learns to become a better passer overnight, his current style of play won't allow him to last very long.

Tebow will have AT MOST 3 games starting experience over Luck, and I think most would agree Luck is already a more polished passer.

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 10:30 AM
If Luck is sitting there, you have to take him.

Unless Tebow learns to become a better passer overnight, his current style of play won't allow him to last very long.

Tebow will have AT MOST 3 games starting experience over Luck, and I think most would agree Luck is already a more polished passer.

I doubt it.

Luck has yet to even set foot in an NFL locker room. You cant use pure speculation to measure the best of one against the "worst" of another.

Likwid Kerruj
12-26-2010, 10:33 AM
I doubt it.

Luck has yet to even set foot in an NFL locker room. You cant use pure speculation to measure the best of one against the "worst" of another.

It's ALL speculation at this point.

;D

I like Tebow as a goalline/short yardage guy, but not as full time starter.

He'd really have to tear it up the these next two games to even begin to convince me.

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 10:37 AM
It's ALL speculation at this point.

I like Tebow as a goalline/short yardage guy, but not as full time starter.

He'd really have to tear it up the these next two games to even begin to convince me.

Not really.

Tebow has already had one good game. There's alot of raw ability there. He's a freak athlete who plays QB. Similar to Vick in that regard. Unlike Vick, he seems to be the type who will work his butt off to succeed.

Likwid Kerruj
12-26-2010, 10:40 AM
Not really.

Tebow has already had one good game. There's alot of raw ability there. He's a freak athlete who plays QB. Similar to Vick in that regard. Unlike Vick, he seems to be the type who will work his butt off to succeed.

The only similarity he has to Vick is they're both left handed.

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 10:41 AM
The only similarity he has to Vick is they're both left handed.

Its obvious that you are incapable of reasonable discussion regarding Tebow. I'll move on to the next poster. Merry Christmas.

Likwid Kerruj
12-26-2010, 10:44 AM
Its obvious that you are incapable of reasonable discussion regarding Tebow. I'll move on to the next poster. Merry Christmas.

Fair enough.

razorwire77
12-26-2010, 10:52 AM
If we get the no. 1 pick and Luck is available "passing on him" is never going to happen. Either we draft him and trade Tebow or we trade the pick for a multiple picks. Not a bad situation to be in. Certainly better than reaching for a DT at 2 or 3. I would get wood if we got the no. 1, traded back a few spots to stockpile more picks and still ended up drafting Patrick Peterson.

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 10:54 AM
If we get the no. 1 pick and Luck is available "passing on him" is never going to happen. Either we draft him and trade Tebow or we trade the pick for a multiple picks. Not a bad situation to be in. Certainly better than reaching for a DT at 2 or 3. I would get wood if we got the no. 1, traded back a few spots to stockpile more picks and still ended up drafting Patrick Peterson.

This team cannot "reach" on a DT. DT is a value pick for the Broncos at just about every position on the draft board.

razorwire77
12-26-2010, 11:01 AM
This team cannot "reach" on a DT. DT is a value pick for the Broncos at just about every position on the draft board.

They certainly can reach because there probably isn't a DT that is going to grade out as a top 3 pick. Hence the "reaching" statement. Asssuming the CBA situation is resolved before the draft, and Luck comes out we are either going to take the best QB prospect to come out in a long while and trade Tebow (not a fan of that option), or we are going to trade back get picks and take a DT or Peterson later in the top 10.

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 11:05 AM
They certainly can reach because there probably isn't a DT that is going to grade out as a top 3 pick. Hence the "reaching" statement. Asssuming the CBA situation is resolved before the draft, and Luck comes out we are either going to take the best QB prospect to come out in a long while and trade Tebow (not a fan of that option), or we are going to trade back get picks and take a DT or Peterson later in the top 10.

It may be true that none of those scenarios pan out. The Broncos may end up drafting at #3 and taking a DT.

There is such a glaring need in Denver for a DT or a DE that any spot is a good spot to take one.

The Broncos need DT, DE, S, and ILB more than they need anything else. If the Broncos get out of the first round without selecting one of those things, it will have been a monumental mistake.

oubronco
12-26-2010, 11:10 AM
Even if they take Luck they will not trade Tebow IMO

peacepipe
12-26-2010, 11:14 AM
Not really.

Tebow has already had one good game. There's alot of raw ability there. He's a freak athlete who plays QB. Similar to Vick in that regard. Unlike Vick, he seems to be the type who will work his butt off to succeed.

LOL Tebow is a poor mans version of tebow. he's too slow to be like Vick.

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 11:17 AM
Even if they take Luck they will not trade Tebow IMO

Thats an absolute worst case scenario.

The major problem with the management of the Broncos over the past two years has been the fact that they have used all of their assets replacing players that they have traded away. They re-upped the same positions.

Because of that, the defense has suffered. We have not invested talent in the defense. Now here we are with a bunch of sloppy aging vets.

Its time to start getting serious about drafting on the defensive side of the ball. We have receivers, offensive linemen, a blue chip rookie QB, a vet QB, an injured but great OLB, a solid MLB, a couple of good vet CB's, and a couple of supplemental young defensive backs.

Its time to invest in the defensive front 7.

If and when the team ever gets serious about the defensive line, you guys will see the defensive backfield get exponentially better. The linebackers too.

footstepsfrom#27
12-26-2010, 11:29 AM
LOL Tebow is a poor mans version of tebow. he's too slow to be like Vick.
Everybody is to slow to be like Vick, but Tebow isn't slow.

Bronco Yoda
12-26-2010, 12:38 PM
Tebow, Luck... Luck, Tebow.

Just give me some Defense please!!!!!!!!!!!!!

maven
12-26-2010, 02:17 PM
I like Elway's thinking already. If Luck is there, you take him.

peacepipe
12-26-2010, 02:18 PM
Right.

That rant wasnt directed at you, it was directed at the mindless zombies who want to destroy the little momentum that the Broncos have to chase after chance. To chase after "Luck" if you will. Throwing their futures away like a bunch of old cigarette-smoking vietnamese women sitting at slot machines in smoke-filled indian casinos across the southwest.

There taking just as much of a chance on tebow.

peacepipe
12-26-2010, 02:19 PM
Everybody is to slow to be like Vick, but Tebow isn't slow.

he isn't fast either.

extralife
12-26-2010, 02:24 PM
Somehow I doubt that the Broncos' front office is considering the idea of dumping Tebow after three games.

the "Broncos front office" doesn't exist, is the problem. whatever is going on here from January 3rd on has no ties to the debacle we've fielded this season. subsequently, they have no ties to Tebow. I suppose Bowlen could make his desires known, but I've had quite enough of his bumbling idiocy these past few years.

The MVPlaya
12-26-2010, 02:27 PM
Ideal situation would be for Broncos to trade Tebow to whatever team McDaniels goes to and then draft Luck.

maven
12-26-2010, 02:34 PM
QB-rich team

That was funny

ROFL!

footstepsfrom#27
12-26-2010, 02:36 PM
he isn't fast either.
Dude...if you think 40 time is a good evaluation of a QB's game speed, well I can't help you. Did you not pay attention to the combine results? He would have been one of the fastest DB's or RB's on the board in the short sprints and change of direction drills. You don't think that's fast for a 245 pound QB? Seriously...Tebow is plenty fast enough.

SJ Bronco
12-26-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm not a Tebow fan. Sure, he's a good athlete, but as an NFL QB, I can't see him being a feared passer no matter how many years you give him. I say trade him before people figure it out, get yourself some more picks. I don't care who you pick with these picks. Just get some picks. If you want to continue with Tebow, fine, but I don't think we have anything to fear from just blowing it up and starting all over again from scratch.

errand
12-26-2010, 03:19 PM
Luck might be better , but i would take my chances with Tebow ....... Tebow has more then just talent , He lifted that entire team last sunday , defense played better , Special teams did , and offense ..... not enough to win the game , but the degree that the players played was noticeable.....If u just watched the Broncos for the first time this season , you would have swore it was Tebows team

...I agree, the defense did play better, since this time the Raiders only scored 39 instead of 59 ! LOL

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 04:04 PM
That was funny

ROFL!

Not so funny anymore, eh?

Taco John
12-26-2010, 04:14 PM
I'm not a Tebow fan. Sure, he's a good athlete, but as an NFL QB, I can't see him being a feared passer no matter how many years you give him. I say trade him before people figure it out, get yourself some more picks. I don't care who you pick with these picks. Just get some picks. If you want to continue with Tebow, fine, but I don't think we have anything to fear from just blowing it up and starting all over again from scratch.

We have absolutely no reason to reinvest at the QB position right now. It's a huge step backward. We have other needs to fill. The QB position is set.

elsid13
12-26-2010, 05:04 PM
I have a bad feeling that once defense coordinators get tape on Tebow, he's not going to be effective as we think he will be. He made some nice throws today, but he also wasn't facing a good passing defense.

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 05:05 PM
I have a bad feeling that once defense coordinators get tape on Tebow, he's not going to be effective as we think he will be. He made some nice throws today, but he also wasn't facing a good passing defense.

You also thought Sam Bradford was overrated.

Archer81
12-26-2010, 05:07 PM
I have a bad feeling that once defense coordinators get tape on Tebow, he's not going to be effective as we think he will be. He made some nice throws today, but he also wasn't facing a good passing defense.


Teams have 3 years of college tape to watch. He is not doing anything differently then, then he is doing now. I also have the feeling if the coaching staff did not handcuff Tebow last week that game could have turned out differently.

Just my opinion though.

:Broncos:

elsid13
12-26-2010, 05:12 PM
Teams have 3 years of college tape to watch. He is not doing anything differently then, then he is doing now. I also have the feeling if the coaching staff did not handcuff Tebow last week that game could have turned out differently.

Just my opinion though.

:Broncos:

There is a great difference between college tape and NFL tape. In college, defense run very simple looks and rarely have the opportunity to practice in disguising coverages and fronts. In college those WR screen calls never get adjusted to, in the pros defense stop them once the identify what going on.

elsid13
12-26-2010, 05:14 PM
You also thought Sam Bradford was overrated.

What til next year before you put him in the HOF. When DC have tape on him, they will take away what he does good and then we see if he as effective.

Archer81
12-26-2010, 05:18 PM
There is a great difference between college tape and NFL tape. In college, defense run very simple looks and rarely have the opportunity to practice in disguising coverages and fronts. In college those WR screen calls never get adjusted to, in the pros defense stop them once the identify what going on.


I'd like to point out that once Houston adjusted to the screens, the Broncos started to throw down field more. When Houston started dropping back to stop the downfield throws, the screen came back.

The issue I have with your tape argument is that it sounds like you are stating Tebow is as good as he will be, or will lack the ability to actually develop as a passer and overcome adjustment defenses make to stop him. This is true for any QB, the good ones find ways to get it done. I believe Tebow has that ability.

:Broncos:

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 05:21 PM
What til next year before you put him in the HOF. When DC have tape on him, they will take away what he does good and then we see if he as effective.

They already have tape on him. This is week 18 coming up, ya know.

Bradford is also running a minimized offense right now.

Just wait until they open the playbook with him. He's going to eat defenses alive. I have seen this progression before with Bradford and he excels at every aspect of running a complicated offense. In three years, he'll be the league's Peyton Manning...except that he's mobile.

elsid13
12-26-2010, 05:24 PM
I'd like to point out that once Houston adjusted to the screens, the Broncos started to throw down field more. When Houston started dropping back to stop the downfield throws, the screen came back.

The issue I have with your tape argument is that it sounds like you are stating Tebow is as good as he will be, or will lack the ability to actually develop as a passer and overcome adjustment defenses make to stop him. This is true for any QB, the good ones find ways to get it done. I believe Tebow has that ability.

:Broncos:

No I just trying to state that people are going to fall in love with Tebow because of this performance today against a bad defense and believe that we shouldn't think drafting another QB. Tebow is still very much a work in progress and we won't have good idea if he going to make it in the league until year from now. Enjoy the win, but understand that new front office isn't going to be sold on one game.

elsid13
12-26-2010, 05:25 PM
They already have tape on him. This is week 18 coming up, ya know.

Bradford is also running a minimized offense right now.

Just wait until they open the playbook with him. He's going to eat defenses alive. I have seen this progression before with Bradford and he excels at every aspect of running a complicated offense. In three years, he'll be the league's Peyton Manning...except that he's mobile.

Full tape breakdown doesn't happen til the summer. That when coaches have time to start make the adjustments.

Likwid Kerruj
12-26-2010, 05:28 PM
He really needs to work on getting the ball off quicker and not taking so many hits.

Overall, a decent performance.

Archer81
12-26-2010, 05:29 PM
No I just trying to state that people are going to fall in love with Tebow because of this performance today against a bad defense and believe that we shouldn't think drafting another QB. Tebow is still very much a work in progress and we won't have good idea if he going to make it in the league until year for now. Enjoy the win, but understand that new front office isn't going sold on one game.


An NFL defense is an NFL defense. They all get paid. Tebow did not really play like a rookie making his 2nd career start today. All rookies are works in progress. Every single one of them. Tebow is not any further behind then Bradford or McCoy or Skelton. They are all rookies and will make boneheaded mistakes.

If the new front office dumps Tebow in favor of Luck or Locker or whoever, then this team deserves to suck. We have alot of holes on defense. That is where this draft should go, regardless of who the HC or GM will be.

:Broncos:

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2010, 05:30 PM
Full tape breakdown doesn't happen til the summer. That when coaches have time to start make the adjustments.

You dont adjust against a guy who can beat you in every way from behind center.

You were wrong before, and you're still wrong.

Unfortunately for you, you'll never admit it.

Bronco Yoda
12-26-2010, 05:33 PM
Tebow had a couple of throws today that shows me he can have a quick release in him. It's there. He just needs to hone those skills.

lostknight
12-26-2010, 07:18 PM
Ideal situation would be for Broncos to trade Tebow to whatever team McDaniels goes to and then draft Luck.

MVP,

Care for a wager? Now that it seems like Tebow made the possibility a distant one at best, how about we wager that at the end of next year Tebow has a better QB rating then our friend Mr. Luck.

Presuppositions include that both players are the starters for a majority of the entire season and that Luck enters the draft. If either is yanked from the starter role after having it for more then two games, we can call that a immediate decision.

Payable in Rockies tickets perhaps?

dsmoot
12-26-2010, 07:25 PM
What til next year before you put him in the HOF. When DC have tape on him, they will take away what he does good and then we see if he as effective.

True of every QB that has been drafted. There is a learning curve on both sides, defenses trying to take things away and QB's trying to recognize what the other side is doing. Ultimately the best QB's(not the most physically talented) get it and learn to recognize and exploit what the defense gives them. It never happens in two, three or 10 games. This is a work in progress after game 2 just like it was for John Elway. Anyone who thinks they have it figured out for Tebow at this point is just foolish.

dsmoot
12-26-2010, 07:27 PM
Full tape breakdown doesn't happen til the summer. That when coaches have time to start make the adjustments.
I'll make a bet that I can't prove but I am highly confident of, Tebow will have the full tape breakdown before the end of February.

maven
12-26-2010, 07:28 PM
Not so funny anymore, eh?

I'm not sold on Tebow long-term. I do not think he will be an elite QB.

Taco John
12-26-2010, 07:44 PM
I'm not sold on Tebow long-term. I do not think he will be an elite QB.

Well, for ths short term, he's on his rookie contract and we have a lot more needs to fill. There is no need to reinvest in the QB position at this time. Doing it two years in a row would be stupid given what we know now about his ability to play the game.

cmhargrove
12-26-2010, 07:59 PM
I'm not sold on Tebow long-term. I do not think he will be an elite QB.

Just a question, but do you consider guys like Roeithlisberger and Eli Manning to be "elite" QB's, or are they just "good" quarterbacks that play with a great running game and defense?

Do you not think we could win with Tebow if we had a solid D and a run game that could consistently churn out 150-200 yards per game?

Give me Tebow, fix the run game and defense, and I'll show you a team that can win a superbowl.

baja
12-26-2010, 08:06 PM
He doesn't have the qualifications to be making these decisions. Bowlen is a moron (as usual). I completely hate this arrangement. Stick to marketing, stay the **** out of the front office.

Finally the world has turned around again, we agree.

snowspot66
12-26-2010, 09:00 PM
There taking just as much of a chance on tebow.

There are a fair number of really good QB's in the league. A few with more rings than the great Manning. Marino has a lot to show for his greatness but no rings. Luck could be the next Manning. He could also be the next Leaf. Even if he is the next Manning there are no guarantees. I don't think anybody will say Rothlisberger is a better QB than Manning or Brady (I'm a big critic myself) but he's walking around with two rings on his hand.

Luck may be the next GOAT but that's really isn't necessary to win a Super Bowl. We just need a guy who's pretty damn good and has a decent team around him.

After Tebow's solid performance today I'm more than comfortable moving forward with him. If he fails, and I seriously doubt he will, it's not like we won't be in a position to draft another good QB in a year or two anyway. Elway, Marino, Kelly, Aikman, Montana, and Young were the dominant QBs for a two decade span in the NFL. Luck may be great, but there will be other great QB's to come along as well. We may already have one.

We are not taking anymore risk running with Tebow than with Luck. Honestly I think we're taking less of a risk at this point. The resources are already invested in Tebow and we'll have a full year of practices and three games to go by for the next coaching staff.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-26-2010, 09:04 PM
You dont adjust against a guy who can beat you in every way from behind center.

You were wrong before, and you're still wrong.

Unfortunately for you, you'll never admit it.

I hate when people say **** like "wait till coaches adjust" as if thats all it takes. I swear people on this board consistently forget that coaches coach and players play. Tim is going to continue to improve and has proven he's capable. Just because there's tape on him doesn't mean people are suddenly gonna "figure him out" like he's a jigsaw puzzle. The guy is a football player. If all it took was "adjustment" there would be no great players in this league.