seismic study supports use of explosives at WTC on 9/11

[mhgaffney]

I will not allow this thread to be hijacked.

That's why we are starting over. Take it from the top.
MHG


Earlier this year, a French seismologist, Andre Rousseau, concluded that the official interpretation of the 9/11 seismic data does not withstand scrutiny. Rousseau does a nice job explaining why the official story cannot be correct.

Go here:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/209899-A-New-Study-of-the-Seismic-Signals-on-September-11-2001-in-New-York

Here's a capsule: The time of the first plane (AA 11) impact is known from the 9/11 radar data. Yet the first seismic signal happened 15 seconds BEFORE the impact. The distance from the WTC to the seismic station is known -- along with the rate of propagation of the signal through the ground. The impact and seismic signal should therefor correlate to within a second. But they don't.

The 15-second time disparity means that something else caused the spike. Rousseau concludes this was a huge explosion in the basement of WTC 1. Which confirms eyewitness accounts by William Rodriguez and others who reported that a huge blast ripped through WTC 1 seconds BEFORE the plane impact.

Moreover, Rousseau points out that a plane impact in a high rise would be dampened by the building before the shock ever reached the ground -- and therefor would not even generate a seismic signal. So the view we have been told -- that the plane impacts caused seismic spikes -- is garbage -- and always was.

Furthermore, Rousseau points out that seismic studies of demolitions (the King Dome etc) have shown that building collapses do not generate seismic signals. Gravity is not nearly powerful enough to generate seismic signals. This means that the large spikes attending the collapse of each WTC tower were not generated by falling material -- but by explosions. Only earthquakes and powerful explosions can generate seismic signals.

Rousseau's analysis was posted in English last June -- however, I just learned about it from a French activist.

You ask why have American seismologists not weighed in on this? The answer is simple. The Frenchman is not worried about losing his job at an American institution - or his funding. He can speak without constraint. To get the truth about 9/11 you must go outside the US.

MHG

[theAPAOps5]

Yeah they were called Jets as in commercial airliners, wacko

[TDmvp]

You deleted the thread and reposted it to avoid getting owned ???

Heck man some newish member who I can't remember their name posted some actual debate to you in that thread and like a ball less wuss you run from it ?

You do realize you have become basically spam at this point , when you act like you own this place and how dare someone say something you don't like in your thread or you'll just have a hissy and delete and spam the same $hit again...





Lucky for me I have a near photographic memory ... So I opened with this.

http://mybfolder.org/albums/userpics/10001/12668634191079rpi.jpg

[DenverBrit]

I will not allow this thread to be hijacked.

That's why we are starting over. Take it from the top.
MHG


Not like you and your fellow nutjobs who hijacked 911 for your own financial gain.

Leach!!

[Garcia Bronco]

Anyone remember what I posted in the other thread. TOG blew your thread down anyway. This is actually spamming the board; A bannable offense. I hope we aren't going to have a problem here.

[Garcia Bronco]

Heck man some newish member who I can't remember their name posted some actual debate to you in that thread and like a ball less wuss you run from it ?



He was that one guy.

[TDmvp]

I'd still like to know why he hasn't taken his book off Amazon since they support a police state and comply to the U.S. government by taking Wikileaks down from the amazon servers.

But I guess taking a stand for/against something can't get in the way of making a buck on the back of a tragedy.

[sirhcyennek81]

Wait...you mean 2, 100 story towers crash to the earth after being struck by jumbo jets couldnt possibly leave a seismic reading, but c4 or mini nukes can? Damn those nefarious Jews...!

****tard. Total ****tard.

:Broncos:

[orinjkrush]

Denver ATC, we have a report of a thread being hijacked over your area. Request immediate F-16 scramble to intercept hijackers. Unconfirmed cell phone messages state target may be Invesco at Mile High. Purpose indeterminate. Please authorize weapons release upon visual contact. Notify civilian authorities that sonic booms may precede detonation by approximately 15 seconds. NORAD out.

[Garcia Bronco]

Denver ATC, we have a report of a thread being hijacked over your area. Request immediate F-16 scramble to intercept hijackers. Unconfirmed cell phone messages state target may be Invesco at Mile High. Purpose indeterminate. Please authorize weapons release upon visual contact. Notify civilian authorities that sonic booms may precede detonation by approximately 15 seconds. NORAD out.

That's a negtive ghost rider. We'll have no chance of a successful touchdown in Invesco at Mile High

[theAPAOps5]

McD lost it - turned in his wings. You guys are number one. But you remember one thing: if you screw up just this much, you'll be flying a Buffalo Team who's roster is full of rubber dog **** out of Hong Kong!

[spdirty]

seismic study supports use of explosives at WTC on 9/11

You bet your sweet ass it was an explosion...A BACON EXPLOSION!!!!!!

http://bacontoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/bacon_explosion_002.jpg

[baja]

I don't appreciate my posts being deleted Mark. Do it again and I will never post in one of your threads again. It's your responsibility to steer the thread back on course if you don't have the strength to do that you should not start threads in the first place.

[TDmvp]

You bet your sweet ass it was an explosion...A BACON EXPLOSION!!!!!!

http://bacontoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/bacon_explosion_002.jpg



Hey ... That's a bbq bacon explosion... That's even taking it to a whole new level.

[underrated29]

balls.


I didnt get to see a response in the old thread. So here we go for the cliff notes question again gaffers.

1-we used explosives in basement
2- in your older thread (threads-not sure how many have been deleted) you mention Proof of nanites being used to take down the buildlings
3-we crashed 2 airplanes into the buildings

all of that, all of that cost, risk and everything. All of that so that they could get more funding? Surely the cost of nanites being produced, let alone, released and then totally evaporated so as there being no evidence of them- would cost more than the funding they are going to get from the result of this.


also-what are the seismic readings for the rest of the area of new york at the 15 second time in question...


Maybe you answered this, maybe you did not. But since I can not see the old thread. You get my old questions.

[TDmvp]

balls.


I didnt get to see a response in the old thread. So here we go for the cliff notes question again gaffers.

1-we used explosives in basement
2- in your older thread (threads-not sure how many have been deleted) you mention Proof of nanites being used to take down the buildlings
3-we crashed 2 airplanes into the buildings

all of that, all of that cost, risk and everything. All of that so that they could get more funding? Surely the cost of nanites being produced, let alone, released and then totally evaporated so as there being no evidence of them- would cost more than the funding they are going to get from the result of this.


also-what are the seismic readings for the rest of the area of new york at the 15 second time in question...



Maybe you answered this, maybe you did not. But since I can not see the old thread. You get my old questions.



Yea Gaff right before you went all gutless and deleted the thread Underrated29 was the one I couldn't remember posted that and posed some real debate you say none of us ever do because we all know your game ... But when ever someone does own you , you just move on to your next piece of bs or now your new move of delete and respam.

[underrated29]

Yea Gaff right before you went all gutless and deleted the thread Underrated29 was the one I couldn't remember posted that and posed some real debate you say none of us ever do because we all know your game ... But when ever someone does own you , you just move on to your next piece of bs or now your new move of delete and respam.

so what exactly did I miss from the old thread? And did he take issue with me using the term jumbo jets..lol or was that someone else he had problems with. I only mention it because apao posted it something hilarious about it.

[TDmvp]

so what exactly did I miss from the old thread? And did he take issue with me using the term jumbo jets..lol or was that someone else he had problems with. I only mention it because apao posted it something hilarious about it.



I'm not totally sure how much more happened after you posted that same post in the old thread.

I was ripping him before you posted in my normal way about him and his Jew hate and also about if he took his book down from Amazon and then you challenged him with some good debate and poof and restarted the thread to control what was posted in it... Weak sauce on his part.

[W*GS]

gaff-o censors when he can't control the conversation.

Tough noogies, son.

[That One Guy]

gaff-o censors when he can't control the conversation.

Tough noogies, son.

LOL

There's gotta be some irony when the loon is censoring us.

[underrated29]

I'm not totally sure how much more happened after you posted that same post in the old thread.

I was ripping him before you posted in my normal way about him and his Jew hate and also about if he took his book down from Amazon and then you challenged him with some good debate and poof and restarted the thread to control what was posted in it... Weak sauce on his part.



yes I remember...he still dodged that question with an answer of amazon and paypal are insignificant right now or something..

You know his book is still on there.


Where is the picture of the fat guy with the foil on his head. We are missing that one still.

[Requiem]

Who cares what TOG says? He has not even seen The Dark Knight. GTFO.

[mhgaffney]

balls.


I didnt get to see a response in the old thread. So here we go for the cliff notes question again gaffers.

1-we used explosives in basement
2- in your older thread (threads-not sure how many have been deleted) you mention Proof of nanites being used to take down the buildlings
3-we crashed 2 airplanes into the buildings

all of that, all of that cost, risk and everything. All of that so that they could get more funding? Surely the cost of nanites being produced, let alone, released and then totally evaporated so as there being no evidence of them- would cost more than the funding they are going to get from the result of this.


also-what are the seismic readings for the rest of the area of new york at the 15 second time in question...


Maybe you answered this, maybe you did not. But since I can not see the old thread. You get my old questions.


Did you read the report by the French seismologist? The seismic data is included in the report -- and is discussed.

Check it out. I gave the link.

[mhgaffney]

W*gs,

The conversation is about the WTC -- not mhgaffney.

You clowns live in a parallel universe. I'm doing you a big favor -- by waking you up to the fact.
MHG

[mhgaffney]

I don't appreciate my posts being deleted Mark. Do it again and I will never post in one of your threads again. It's your responsibility to steer the thread back on course if you don't have the strength to do that you should not start threads in the first place.


As you can plainly see from the posts -- the US has more A-holes and psychopaths per square acre of any nation on earth.

Is this why you fled to Mexico? Because you can't handle it?

So why are you getting on my case? You should be helping me break through the wall of denial -- instead of making excuses for the A-holes.

They need a rude dose -- of reality. If you don't have the wherewithal to help -- then stand out of the way.

I'm beginning to wonder if there are any honest and caring people left in the US. Are we a nation that has completely lost its compass?

[Rohirrim]

As you can plainly see from the posts -- the US has more A-holes and psychopaths per square acre of any nation on earth.

Is this why you fled to Mexico? Because you can't handle it?

So why are you getting on my case? You should be helping me break through the wall of denial -- instead of making excuses for the A-holes.

They need a rude dose -- of reality. If you don't have the wherewithal to help -- then stand out of the way.

I'm beginning to wonder if there are any honest and caring people left in the US. Are we a nation that has completely lost its compass?

Ever hear of Narcissism?

[underrated29]

Did you read the report by the French seismologist? The seismic data is included in the report -- and is discussed.

Check it out. I gave the link.


Nope I did not read it. For two reasons

1- I dont think it has much accreditation

2- It is not a valid link, or the article is no longer available. *gasp* another conspiracy



So please enlighten me on the seismic activity for the surrounding areas, since you did read the full article and I did not.



ALSO------what is the purpose of all of this? Why blow the basement, why use nanites, and why crash planes into the buildings. Why crash planes into the pentagon and why try to crash a plane into that other building? (accept the passengers took control) Why do this? Why do all of that?


There has to be a WHY behind any solid conspiracy, and from the information you pointed out funding certainly can not be it. Why would they do this.

[W*GS]

W*gs,

The conversation is about the WTC -- not mhgaffney.

You clowns live in a parallel universe. I'm doing you a big favor -- by waking you up to the fact.
MHG

That ol' misplaced Messiah complex - again.

[W*GS]

As you can plainly see from the posts -- the US has more A-holes and psychopaths per square acre of any nation on earth.

I wonder how long before gaff-o goes berserk and starts a shoot-em-up, given that everyone else is "psychopath".

Any takers on a date?

[That One Guy]

I wonder how long before gaff-o goes berserk and starts a shoot-em-up, given that everyone else is "psychopath".

Any takers on a date?

I pretty much hate your political stances but your destruction of Gaff at every opportunity is pure gold.

[theAPAOps5]

I wonder if Gaffo is BroncoWarrior? He deleted threads when he was getting destroyed too.

[sirhcyennek81]

I wonder if Gaffo is BroncoWarrior? He deleted threads when he was getting destroyed too.


Neither is cool enough to be a discjockey or play in a rock band in Utah.


:Broncos:

[TDmvp]

I wonder if Gaffo is BroncoWarrior? He deleted threads when he was getting destroyed too.

Those BroncoWarrior threads was epic.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=86087&highlight=Bronco+Warrior

[That One Guy]

Who cares what TOG says? He has not even seen The Dark Knight. GTFO.

LOL

Batman movies? I remember getting one for Christmas in... 94/95ish timeframe and thinking, "ugh... a Batman Movie". I never even watched that one. How am I supposed to know they were actually good?

[TDmvp]

LOL

Batman movies? I remember getting one for Christmas in... 94/95ish timeframe and thinking, "ugh... a Batman Movie". I never even watched that one. How am I supposed to know they were actually good?

..... ponder ....
http://www.funnypictureblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/NotSureIfSerious.jpg


Dude !!! ...

[TDmvp]

LOL

Batman movies? I remember getting one for Christmas in... 94/95ish timeframe and thinking, "ugh... a Batman Movie". I never even watched that one. How am I supposed to know they were actually good?



Now that I've had a moment to settle down LOL ...


the 90's Batman movies have 0 to do with the Batman Begins (2005) and The Dark Knight (2008) ...


The ones from the 90s was aimed at little kids and campy ... The new ones are darkish. The Dark Knight it totally one of the best movies I've ever seen and I'm that guy who hates everything everyone else does normally.

I'm the I hate the classics guy and those two movies are KILLER... Do yourself a fav , watch those... hell I may link them to this thread LOL ...

[That One Guy]

Now that I've had a moment to settle down LOL ...


the 90's Batman movies have 0 to do with the Batman Begins (2005) and The Dark Knight (2008) ...


The ones from the 90s was aimed at little kids and campy ... The new ones are darkish. The Dark Knight it totally one of the best movies I've ever seen and I'm that guy who hates everything everyone else does normally.

I'm the I hate the classics guy and those two movies are KILLER... Do yourself a fav , watch those... hell I may link them to this thread LOL ...

LOL

I'll bust em out sometime when my crack is as thoroughly scratched as can be and I have nothing better to do. I just happened to make the comment that I hadn't seem them in some random thread recently so I was surprised to see it brought up. To be honest, I'd rather be out in the woods or playing fake money poker on Facebook than watch TV so I fall behind the times. I actually need to go see what movies have come out since last Christmas so I can send my mom a list of potential gifts...

[mhgaffney]

Ever hear of Narcissism?

Yeah, it's a big issue. You see it on the OM all the time.

Nothing to do with me, however. As I've made clear -- this thread is not about mhgaffney. It's about the hard evidence posted at the top of the thread.

They attack me because I am the messenger. The evidence for explosives at the WTC sends the knee jerks into a hysterical rage. That's the story.

[underrated29]

Still waiting......:olddude:

[W*GS]

The only "hard" evidence in a gaff-o post is his skull.

Calling what's inside jell-o is an insult to all gelatin-based foods.

[DenverBrit]

Yeah, it's a big issue. You see it on the OM all the time.

Nothing to do with me, however. As I've made clear -- this thread is not about mhgaffney. It's about the hard evidence posted at the top of the thread.

They attack me because I am the messenger. The evidence for explosives at the WTC sends the knee jerks into a hysterical rage. That's the story.

LOLLOL Thanks for the morning laugh.

[mhgaffney]

balls.


I didnt get to see a response in the old thread. So here we go for the cliff notes question again gaffers.

1-we used explosives in basement
2- in your older thread (threads-not sure how many have been deleted) you mention Proof of nanites being used to take down the buildlings
3-we crashed 2 airplanes into the buildings

all of that, all of that cost, risk and everything. All of that so that they could get more funding? Surely the cost of nanites being produced, let alone, released and then totally evaporated so as there being no evidence of them- would cost more than the funding they are going to get from the result of this.


also-what are the seismic readings for the rest of the area of new york at the 15 second time in question...


Maybe you answered this, maybe you did not. But since I can not see the old thread. You get my old questions.

I corrected the link.

Here it is. I suggest you read the paper BEFORE you open your big yap.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/209899-A-New-Study-of-the-Seismic-Signals-on-September-11-2001-in-New-York

[mhgaffney]

A comment, for any intelligent people who happen to drop into this thread:

Notice the mob mentality. As Ro points out, this thread shows narcissism of the most puerile kind. Notice how no one comments on the substance of the paper posted at the top of the thread. I am happy to discuss the paper -- and the evidence -- but notice there is nothing to discuss with this crowd.

How to reason with a mob? Impossible.

This thread does illustrate the problem in our nation, at present. Droves of Americans are in flight -- running away from the issues at hand. No one is standing firm.

And this goes for Baja too -- who felt he had to leave the US. Some kind of flight to presumed safety.

Clearly, the US is in free fall -- with no bottom in sight. Only one thing seems certain. Things will get worse before they get better.
MHG

[W*GS]

Yeah, yeah - you're gonna crack and start laying waste to all us idiot Americans, for our own good.

Please, just self-implode so no-one else gets hurt. Thanks.

[theAPAOps5]

This thread is not about Gaff-o and the sun didn't come up today either.

[baja]

The only "hard" evidence in a gaff-o post is his skull.

Calling what's inside jell-o is an insult to all gelatin-based foods.

Do you ever have anything nice to say about a fellow poster?

[DenverBrit]

Do you ever have anything nice to say about a fellow poster?

Let's be honest, Gaffney only has nice things to say about those who agree with him.

Which isn't complimentary at all, as he's bat**** crazy. ;D

[baja]

Let's be honest, Gaffney only has nice things to say about those who agree with him.

Which isn't complimentary at all, as he's bat**** crazy. ;D

Maybe that's why I like him. ;D

[underrated29]

I corrected the link.

Here it is. I suggest you read the paper BEFORE you open your big yap.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/209899-A-New-Study-of-the-Seismic-Signals-on-September-11-2001-in-New-York




Ok, I read through the entire article....



Now- answer my questions, quite trying to be offensive, and quit avoiding them. Try and answer all of them too please


1. What are the seismic readings for the surrounding areas of NYC?
(they make absolutely no mention of this. I understand the waves, but what they neglect to say is things like trains and other "heavy" equiptment can show up with those same readings.)

2. They assume that he planes kinetic emission is almost all transformed into aerial..Which is a stupid assumption, yet a huge part of their argument. Can you honestly tell me that the mass and velocity of a multi thousand ton aircraft hitting a steel building is not going to transfer energy down steel!?!? One of the best conductors for vibrations, sound vibrations and heat?

3. If there was a bomb/bombs set off in the basement a full 15 seconds before impact- would the building not have A) started to collapse then? B) set off alarms and have people running out of the building?

4. They conclude that the bombs set off must have been done manually. If we are to believe everything they say in that article then this must be true too. So if they were done manually, and by the government why would ANYONE who is trying to keep it secret detonate the bombs 15 seconds before the dam plane hit the building!!!??

Remember it was not on a timer, but done manually. So one can easily see when the effing plane hits the building. And they would coincide the explosions. Common sense. So riddle me this batman?

5. Assuming all that is true and everything I listed can be answered and proven, why would they bomb the building, as you state is fact, use Nanites on the buildings, as you state is fact and then fly airplanes into them--all in the name of funding?


Are you kidding me?

They could have just as easily and CHEAPLY bombed the building from the basement. Shot them with rockets or missles and spread blame. They could have used the same type of planes (not for commercial use) and filled them with explosives to bring them down.


6. What of the plane that hit the pentagon and the one that the passengers took back control of and ultimately crash landed? Why didnt those bombs go off early, or those Nanites start eating things up? And if the nanites were on the plane, how come when they crashed the nanites did not start eating the plane?





Notice I have not attacked you, or called you names or anything else. All I have done is ask questions that you refuse to answer. I played your game, now you play mine.

[The Lone Bolt]

Underrated,

While I applaud your efforts here, I submit to you that they are futile.

Experience has shown me that you can present Gaffney with the most conclusive, indisputable, painfully obvious evidence that he is wrong and he will simply refuse to acknowledge it.

You're wasting your time, trust me.

[underrated29]

Underrated,

While I applaud your efforts here, I submit to you that they are futile.

Experience has shown me that you can present Gaffney with the most conclusive, indisputable, painfully obvious evidence that he is wrong and he will simply refuse to acknowledge it.

You're wasting your time, trust me.



lol.

No reading that article was a waste of time....


I am not trying to get him to admit he is right or wrong, I am trying to get him to respond. I want to learn about him, his perspective and point of view. Although it would be nice for him to accept that this stuff is not truth but mere hypoethesis. Alas, I think you and everyone else is right. He will not step up. Just simply side step and re direct. And if he was as smart as he claims to be he should be after the search of truth not gain.

[TDmvp]

lol.

No reading that article was a waste of time....


I am not trying to get him to admit he is right or wrong, I am trying to get him to respond. I want to learn about him, his perspective and point of view. Although it would be nice for him to accept that this stuff is not truth but mere hypoethesis. Alas, I think you and everyone else is right. He will not step up. Just simply side step and re direct. And if he was as smart as he claims to be he should be after the search of truth not gain.



Well said ... and rep ...

[That One Guy]

lol.

No reading that article was a waste of time....


I am not trying to get him to admit he is right or wrong, I am trying to get him to respond. I want to learn about him, his perspective and point of view. Although it would be nice for him to accept that this stuff is not truth but mere hypoethesis. Alas, I think you and everyone else is right. He will not step up. Just simply side step and re direct. And if he was as smart as he claims to be he should be after the search of truth not gain.

I think the fact that Gaff is ONLY interested in conspiracy tells you all you need to know about his personality. He's so vested in 9/11 being an inside job that he could absolutely never admit to it. He doesn't want the truth, he wants to feel elite by him, and only him, knowing the truth and attempting to convince those less intelligent than he of the lies and deceit they, as imperfect human beings unlike himself, fall victim to.

Gaff loves himself too much to ever admit he was wrong about anything. He ignores or deflects opinions that conflict with his and will take 1 opinion out of a gatrillion opposing ones and identify it as the true facts of a given situation. In solely my opinion, he's a complete nutjob that loves a conspiracy but it's his gigantic ego that makes him nearly unbearable and so easy to dislike. Terrible human being on a personal level judging solely from the interactions I've had over the medium that is the broncos forum - an admittedly narrow sample.

[Garcia Bronco]

I think the fact that Gaff is ONLY interested in conspiracy tells you all you need to know about his personality. He's so vested in 9/11 being an inside job that he could absolutely never admit to it. He doesn't want the truth, he wants to feel elite by him, and only him, knowing the truth and attempting to convince those less intelligent than he of the lies and deceit they, as imperfect human beings unlike himself, fall victim to.

Gaff loves himself too much to ever admit he was wrong about anything. He ignores or deflects opinions that conflict with his and will take 1 opinion out of a gatrillion opposing ones and identify it as the true facts of a given situation. In solely my opinion, he's a complete nutjob that loves a conspiracy but it's his gigantic ego that makes him nearly unbearable and so easy to dislike. Terrible human being on a personal level judging solely from the interactions I've had over the medium that is the broncos forum - an admittedly narrow sample.

When you get down to it; guys like him and Michael Moore suffer from some kind of psychosis that manifests itself in passive/aggressive behaviors, obession, superiority complex or God complex, and at worse a complete disconnect with reality.

I know that's a lotta words to call him an asshole. but oh well.

[mhgaffney]

Ok, I read through the entire article....



Now- answer my questions, quite trying to be offensive, and quit avoiding them. Try and answer all of them too please


1. What are the seismic readings for the surrounding areas of NYC?
(they make absolutely no mention of this. I understand the waves, but what they neglect to say is things like trains and other "heavy" equiptment can show up with those same readings.)

2. They assume that he planes kinetic emission is almost all transformed into aerial..Which is a stupid assumption, yet a huge part of their argument. Can you honestly tell me that the mass and velocity of a multi thousand ton aircraft hitting a steel building is not going to transfer energy down steel!?!? One of the best conductors for vibrations, sound vibrations and heat?

3. If there was a bomb/bombs set off in the basement a full 15 seconds before impact- would the building not have A) started to collapse then? B) set off alarms and have people running out of the building?

4. They conclude that the bombs set off must have been done manually. If we are to believe everything they say in that article then this must be true too. So if they were done manually, and by the government why would ANYONE who is trying to keep it secret detonate the bombs 15 seconds before the dam plane hit the building!!!??

Remember it was not on a timer, but done manually. So one can easily see when the effing plane hits the building. And they would coincide the explosions. Common sense. So riddle me this batman?

5. Assuming all that is true and everything I listed can be answered and proven, why would they bomb the building, as you state is fact, use Nanites on the buildings, as you state is fact and then fly airplanes into them--all in the name of funding?


Are you kidding me?

They could have just as easily and CHEAPLY bombed the building from the basement. Shot them with rockets or missles and spread blame. They could have used the same type of planes (not for commercial use) and filled them with explosives to bring them down.


6. What of the plane that hit the pentagon and the one that the passengers took back control of and ultimately crash landed? Why didnt those bombs go off early, or those Nanites start eating things up? And if the nanites were on the plane, how come when they crashed the nanites did not start eating the plane?

Notice I have not attacked you, or called you names or anything else. All I have done is ask questions that you refuse to answer. I played your game, now you play mine.


I will answer to the best of my ability. I hasten to add -- I am not a seismologist -- but will answer based on my readings/research.

1. There were no seismic events elsewhere in NYC on 9/11 worthy of the name, hence, nothing to generate a signal. Trains and heavy equipment are like bugs on your skin. They do not generate seismic signals.

2. Baloney. Why would a plane impact cause a seismic spike? The plane is cruising parallel with the surface of the earth. It hits a building and nearly all of the kinetic energy is absorbed by the building. The survivors said the towers rocked like you wouldn't believe. Back and forth and back again. It took several minutes for the towers to return to normal. BTW the impacts did not cause fatal damage. NIST admitted this in its 2005 report.

3. The WTC towers were state of the art high rise buildings. They were incredibly strong. The steel core box columns were 7 inches thick. It took many blasts to weaken the towers. There was a series of blasts -- with each tower -- mostly low down -- in the basement. Then the final series that brought them down. After the first explosion -- BEFORE AA 11 hit WTC-1 -- people started to evacuate the building. Check the testimony of William Rodriguez. There were many injuries -- and some dead -- from the first explosion in the basement. Then the janitors felt the plane hit - far above.

4. The bombs were probably set off when someone keyed a command on a laptop -- which sent a radio signal. Someone screwed up. There were other screw ups on 9/11 as well. Two examples: 1. WTC-7 -- was probably to be demolished immediately after WTC-1 fell. In which case its collapse would have been hidden by dust. 2. UAL 93 -- another screw up. Something went wrong. The perps were not perfect. It is human to err.

5. Why demolish the WTC? Yossi Harel, the head of the Israeli Mossad, gave the answer in a 1979 interview. The tall buildings in NYC were the phallic symbols of western civilization. Nuf said.

But in fact -- the owners (and we still do not know who they were -- but undoubtedly were Wall Street bankers/insurance tycoons.) wanted the towers removed for a variety of reasons. The WTC was a $$$ loser. However, demolition would have cost several billion. Why pay to have them removed when you can stage a false flag and collect a cool $7 billion in insurance money

You are naive. To understand 9/11 you have to think like Machiavelli.

Next question.

MHG

[underrated29]

I will answer to the best of my ability. I hasten to add -- I am not a seismologist -- but will answer based on my readings/research.

1. There were no seismic events elsewhere in NYC on 9/11 worthy of the name, hence, nothing to generate a signal. Trains and heavy equipment are like bugs on your skin. They do not generate seismic signals.

2. Baloney. Why would a plane impact cause a seismic spike? The plane is cruising parallel with the surface of the earth. It hits a building and nearly all of the kinetic energy is absorbed by the building. The survivors said the towers rocked like you wouldn't believe. Back and forth and back again. It took several minutes for the towers to return to normal. BTW the impacts did not cause fatal damage. NIST admitted this in its 2005 report.

3. The WTC towers were state of the art high rise buildings. They were incredibly strong. The steel core box columns were 7 inches thick. It took many blasts to weaken the towers. There was a series of blasts -- with each tower -- mostly low down -- in the basement. Then the final series that brought them down. After the first explosion -- BEFORE AA 11 hit WTC-1 -- people started to evacuate the building. Check the testimony of William Rodriguez. There were many injuries -- and some dead -- from the first explosion in the basement. Then the janitors felt the plane hit - far above.

4. The bombs were probably set off when someone keyed a command on a laptop -- which sent a radio signal. Someone screwed up. There were other screw ups on 9/11 as well. Two examples: 1. WTC-7 -- was probably to be demolished immediately after WTC-1 fell. In which case its collapse would have been hidden by dust. 2. UAL 93 -- another screw up. Something went wrong. The perps were not perfect. It is human to err.

5. Why demolish the WTC? Yossi Harel, the head of the Israeli Mossad, gave the answer in a 1979 interview. The tall buildings in NYC were the phallic symbols of western civilization. Nuf said.

But in fact -- the owners (and we still do not know who they were -- but undoubtedly were Wall Street bankers/insurance tycoons.) wanted the towers removed for a variety of reasons. The WTC was a $$$ loser. However, demolition would have cost several billion. Why pay to have them removed when you can stage a false flag and collect a cool $7 billion in insurance money

You are naive. To understand 9/11 you have to think like Machiavelli.

Next question.

MHG



About what i expected. Disappointed, but what i expected.



* you guys are right*


Ghaff- there is a dude called Cleveland browns or charlie brown at the official broncos website..you and he would get along very very well i think. You should look him up.

[mhgaffney]

You ask -- how could the perpetrators screw up so bad -- yet get away with it?

Simple. They own the media. The propaganda system in our nation is far more effective than what existed in Hitler's Germany or Stalin's USSR.

They are pros -- and make Goebbels like like an amateur. We live in the age of Orwell - when speaking the simple truth is a revolutionary act..

MHG

[TDmvp]

I will answer to the best of my ability. I hasten to add -- I am not a seismologist -- but will answer based on my readings/research.

You are naive. To understand 9/11 you have to think like Machiavelli.




Translation , He knows very little on the science related to 9/11 but will quote other nut bar truthers writings and research and thinks everyone but his little group of ghost chasers are naive and stupid and only the ones who believe everything is a conspiracy have the least bit of intelligence or reasoning...


Do yourself a fav Gaff ... Maybe dial down the you are the only one who can possibly be right because that makes you look stupid because anyone who can't admit in the slightest way that they may be wrong is sick and delusional. And maybe cut back on the acting like you are so smart and advanced and everyone else is below you and naive bit ...
You so come off like a piece of $hit college professor.

[mhgaffney]

Translation , He knows very little on the science related to 9/11 but will quote other nut bar truthers writings and research and thinks everyone but his little group of ghost chasers are naive and stupid and only the ones who believe everything is a conspiracy have the least bit of intelligence or reasoning...


Do yourself a fav Gaff ... Maybe dial down the you are the only one who can possibly be right because that makes you look stupid because anyone who can't admit in the slightest way that they may be wrong is sick and delusional. And maybe cut back on the acting like you are so smart and advanced and everyone else is below you and naive bit ...
You so come off like a piece of $hit college professor.

Translation:

I (TDmvp) don't know shyte from shinola - but I can still kick ass with the best of them. After all, looking good is what counts -- not having a clue..

[DenverBrit]

Translation:

I (TDmvp) don't know shyte from shinola - but I can still kick ass with the best of them. After all, looking good is what counts -- not having a clue..

You just didn't grow up as you aged.

No other opinion matters except yours, and we are all delusional because we disagree with your lunacy and paranoia.

Seriously, take your f@king meds!!

[DenverBrit]

I will answer to the best of my ability. I hasten to add -- I am not a seismologist -- but will answer based on my readings/research.


You're also not a structural engineer, architect, demolition expert, metallurgist, investigator, chemist, fire expert or have any other qualification to argue the facts of 911.

Yet, according to you, you've never been wrong and every specialist who's research and expertise disagrees with your nonsense is clueless or a conspirator.

Again, take your f@king meds!!

[underrated29]

You ask -- how could the perpetrators screw up so bad -- yet get away with it?

Simple. They own the media. The propaganda system in our nation is far more effective than what existed in Hitler's Germany or Stalin's USSR.

They are pros -- and make Goebbels like like an amateur. We live in the age of Orwell - when speaking the simple truth is a revolutionary act..

MHG


No I ask, how if everything is planned to a T, that a mistake like timing is made. Something my niave 4 year old son can do.


I ask, about the Nanites in which YOU swore by and made a thread, that my niave butt remembers but you keep doing your best to forget.



I ask if they were losing billions in the wtc why spend billions more on nanites and a cover up?






You say as a revolutionary, I say as a renegade.

I ask as a renegade. Since the prehistoric ages and the days of ancient greece. Right down through the middle ages, the planet kept going through changes. Then no renaissance came as times continued to change. Nothing stayed the same, (unlike you and revolution) but there were always renegades.

Chief sitting bull
Tom paine
Dr. Martin luther king
Malcom X

They were renegades, of their time and age.

[underrated29]

No I ask, how if everything is planned to a T, that a mistake like timing is made. Something my niave 4 year old son can do.


I ask, about the Nanites in which YOU swore by and made a thread, that my niave butt remembers but you keep doing your best to forget.



I ask if they were losing billions in the wtc why spend billions more on nanites and a cover up?






You say as a revolutionary, I say as a renegade.

I ask as a renegade. Since the prehistoric ages and the days of ancient greece. Right down through the middle ages, the planet kept going through changes. Then no renaissance came as times continued to change. Nothing stayed the same, (unlike you and revolution) but there were always renegades.

Chief sitting bull
Tom paine
Dr. Martin luther king
Malcom X

They were renegades, of their time and age.







LOLROFL!LOL

Ghaff- I would love to see your response to this. The entire thing. And definitely the last part. I am not sure you will know.

[TDmvp]

You just didn't grow up as you aged.

No other opinion matters except yours, and we are all delusional because we disagree with your lunacy and paranoia.

Seriously, take your f@king meds!!



Yea it's sad and funny all at the same time.

I haven't seen many people in my life time who thinks as much of themself or their own opinion as Gaff and he acts like a petulant child like you mentioned Brit.

I've seen kids do it where they are either trying to lie to their parents or whoever or actually believe what they are saying. They will stand pat on something no matter how many facts or other viable theories they are presented with and will find any little thread of BS to grasp onto to try to get out of breaking the lamp , or in this case prove the world wrong and self aggrandizing himself for absolutely nothing.



And well played underrated29

[mhgaffney]

No I ask, how if everything is planned to a T, that a mistake like timing is made. Something my niave 4 year old son can do.

I ask, about the Nanites in which YOU swore by and made a thread, that my niave butt remembers but you keep doing your best to forget.

I ask if they were losing billions in the wtc why spend billions more on nanites and a cover up?

You say as a revolutionary, I say as a renegade.

I ask as a renegade. Since the prehistoric ages and the days of ancient greece. Right down through the middle ages, the planet kept going through changes. Then no renaissance came as times continued to change. Nothing stayed the same, (unlike you and revolution) but there were always renegades.

Chief sitting bull
Tom paine
Dr. Martin luther king
Malcom X

They were renegades, of their time and age.

I gave you the answer. If you don't like it -- that's your business. To err is human. 9/11 was an incredibly complex operation. German intelligence experts are on record -- saying that a loosely organized group like al Qaeda could never have done 9/11. It required the expertise of a state security agency -- and even then -- they were not perfect.

When did I recant on the use the nano thermite? I did not. This seismic data
is simply another nail in the coffin of the official story.

Why do you conclude the nanothermite cost billions? You have a source on this?

I never stated an amount as regards the WTC losing money. The owners have never made the figures public. They would be crazy to do so. You are pulling numbers out of thin air.

Do some research before you open your yap. My views are based on research - a lot of it.

MHG

[TDmvp]

Gaff you so need to try to get on Coast to Coast AM ,they would love you on that show.

You would have to dial back the Jew hate tho for a national radio broadcast.

But a lot of people who listen to that would love to hear your ideas I bet.

[mhgaffney]

No Jew hate here. Jesus was a Jew -- and I love Jesus.

It's not about Jews. Never was.

However, Zionism is another kettle.

[underrated29]

When did I recant on the use the nano thermite? I did not. This seismic data
is simply another nail in the coffin of the official story.

Why do you conclude the nanothermite cost billions? You have a source on this?

I never stated an amount as regards the WTC losing money. The owners have never made the figures public. They would be crazy to do so. You are pulling numbers out of thin air.

Do some research before you open your yap. My views are based on research - a lot of it.

MHG



You did not recant the nanites. You avoided it all together. But now that you are remembering, why so many nails in the coffin. Why use bombs, and planes and nanites when 1 or 2 would do?


I'm sorry, I have no source on the cost of nanites, do you? But a logical person would think that if nanites did not cost billions of dollars to make and let alone use in action, then we would probably be seeing them all over the place right now. But we are not. Why is that? because the technology is not there yet- could be. Because the cost is sooo great to develop let alone refine them to eating a building then disappearing completely, yeah definitely so.


You completely skipped again, the last part of my statement.



What is funny, and now that you mention it becomes clear. Your quote from above:

"Do some research before you open your yap. My views are based on research - a lot of it."

All you want is recognition. You have spent so much time researching and wasting away on conspiracies with nothing to show for it. That you keep pushing so hard just for that info. But you have no worthy adversaries because no one cares and no one believes it. And that lies your problem as you can not prove them. So all your hard work and time spent on these is for not. That is probably why you keep pushing your book. Not for money, but for cred. I am sure it burns inside you that you are at the top of your game with no one to play against and no one to share it with. I met another poster on this board who was similar to you. They just wanted some recognition of their research and hard work more then they actually really cared about their argument.
There also seems to be one more thing.....

But now what about a response to my part, quoted below:

"You say as a revolutionary, I say as a renegade.

I ask as a renegade. Since the prehistoric ages and the days of ancient greece. Right down through the middle ages, the planet kept going through changes. Then no renaissance came as times continued to change. Nothing stayed the same, (unlike you and revolution) but there were always renegades.

Chief sitting bull
Tom paine
Dr. Martin luther king
Malcom X

They were renegades, of their time and age."

[Obushma]

You say as a revolutionary, I say as a renegade.

I ask as a renegade. Since the prehistoric ages and the days of ancient greece. Right down through the middle ages, the planet kept going through changes. Then no renaissance came as times continued to change. Nothing stayed the same, (unlike you and revolution) but there were always renegades.

Chief sitting bull
Tom paine
Dr. Martin luther king
Malcom X

They were renegades, of their time and age.

Wow Gaffney, you're dealing with a guy who can quote a full verse of a RATM song, better step back man...LOL

WTF does this have anything to do with what he even said underrated? Jesus, don't come here and commit blaspheme by quoting a song and a group you obviously don't agree with or know **** about.

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[underrated29]

Wow Gaffney, you're dealing with a guy who can quote a full verse of a RATM song, better step back man...LOL

WTF does this have anything to do with what he even said underrated? Jesus, don't come here and commit blaspheme by quoting a song and a group you obviously don't agree with or know **** about.

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damnit thy, why did you have to go and do that? You ruined the whole thing.



It has absolutely nothing to do with it Genius!! If you would stop trying to be an a-hole you would see that. Instead, you just look like one now. Way to go chief..:thumbs:

I had that whole thing set up..dang.




PS-Thy- I love rage. One of my fav bands. And while I do not do politics I really like Zac de la roche and was glad that he stood by his beliefs when he dropped out of rage. Not because he or the band wanted him to but because of the record labels. I still liked them when they got cornell and became audioslave, but they were never the same. I have heard rumors that zac was going to come back but never anything further.

I do not know what your problem is buddy, but dont come at me with stupid crap in which you know nothing about me or what i like and know.

[Obushma]

damnit thy, why did you have to go and do that? You ruined the whole thing.



It has absolutely nothing to do with it Genius!! If you would stop trying to be an a-hole you would see that. Instead, you just look like one now. Way to go chief..:thumbs:

I had that whole thing set up..dang.




PS-Thy- I love rage. One of my fav bands. And while I do not do politics I really like Zac de la roche and was glad that he stood by his beliefs when he dropped out of rage. Not because he or the band wanted him to but because of the record labels. I still liked them when they got cornell and became audioslave, but they were never the same. I have heard rumors that zac was going to come back but never anything further.

I do not know what your problem is buddy, but dont come at me with stupid crap in which you know nothing about me or what i like and know.

I didn't ruin ****, your here having an argument with a guy who prolly supports more of RATM's positions then you, and yet you want to argue with him over a lie you made up to get all the assholes around here's jollys off, we have enough of these types around here. If you wan't to argue 9/11 with the man go ahead, while I don't agree with all his positions, I don't come here and make **** up like a fool would in front of his court.

[underrated29]

I didn't ruin ****, your here having an argument with a guy who prolly supports more of RATM's positions then you, and yet you want to argue with him over a lie you made up to get all the a-holes around here's jollys off, we have enough of these types around here. If you wan't to argue 9/11 with the man go ahead, while I don't agree with all his positions, I don't come here and make **** up like a fool would in front of his court.



Boy you just dont get it do you. And for someone who claims to be a passive 6'5 tongan you sure are an aggressive jerk. I did not make up anything. There is no lie anywhere. It has nothing to do with anyone else on the board either. It was all about ghaffers.

Now that the cat is out of the bag lets look and see......Did it ever occur to you that there is another angle? No, because for some reason you are pissed at me and want to start ****. Why I have no clue, but you felt the need to chime in anyway and attack. You did not sit back and think.


I know it as a reflection tactic, others may have heard of it as a mirror image. There are dozens of names for it. You can not tell someone they are something, because if they do not want to listen they will never accept it, but if you can get them to show themselves, well....think about it.

So, it was set up. Then I kept feeding the same thing, started to get under his skin a little bit. Ruffle his feathers a little bit. Now that his juices are flowing and his ego (if he has one, which is what we were about to find out) is in full gear. I throw in something completely random. Renegades of funk. BUT- I am certain Ghaff did not recognize that as a song or a band. He probably did not know who they were...(It has nothing to do with what the songs are about either-since you seem to be stuck on that)...So I throw in Rage, and slightly disguise it with the conversation. Then I keep feeding it and ask him to respond to it. When he finally does respond to it, with some knowledge about something, because he is always right and never wrong and the research king...Then we show him that they are lyrics to a song, and it has NOTHING (as you so smartly figured out) to do with anything.

He then sees for himself (a reflection of himself) that he is not always right, never wrong, all knowing, research king etc etc etc etc...Which I am not saying he is. But we will not find out now either.

So to review that for you:
Throw out a red herring
Takes the bait
Responds like they know what they are talking about when there is really nothing.
Sees for themselves what they are and what others have been saying.


Now of course, maybe he does not fall for it. He is a smart guy afterall. Then the rest of the board will know that he does have it together and is not as crazy as they think. Before I said we should all be after truth, not personal gain. That is what I was searching for. It is gone now, and you and I both look stupid for it. Let me know if you need me to go back through that again.

Some of the people on here, i am pretty sure, saw where this was heading. Which is why they did not respond with "why are your bringing rage into this?" when they did respond with "very nicely done" type of things. As you can see I was cracking up when I did it by my next post-where I had all the laughing smilies.



Ghaff- unlike the tongan I still have fun talking about this, so if you want feel free to explian further in detail about the nanites. Otherwise I think this thread has probably run its course.

[MplsBronco]

What I don't get is why so many people believe that a group incapable of something as simple as setting off a car bomb in Times Square is capable of multiple simultaneous hijackings resulting in the destruction of two of the worlds largest buildings and a direct attack on the military headquarters of the world's supreme superpower.

It simply does not make sense.

I don't know what exactly happened that day but what I know didn't happen is the "official" gov't story.

[Obushma]

Boy you just dont get it do you. And for someone who claims to be a passive 6'5 tongan you sure are an aggressive jerk. I did not make up anything. There is no lie anywhere. It has nothing to do with anyone else on the board either. It was all about ghaffers.

Now that the cat is out of the bag lets look and see......Did it ever occur to you that there is another angle? No, because for some reason you are pissed at me and want to start ****. Why I have no clue, but you felt the need to chime in anyway and attack. You did not sit back and think.


I know it as a reflection tactic, others may have heard of it as a mirror image. There are dozens of names for it. You can not tell someone they are something, because if they do not want to listen they will never accept it, but if you can get them to show themselves, well....think about it.

So, it was set up. Then I kept feeding the same thing, started to get under his skin a little bit. Ruffle his feathers a little bit. Now that his juices are flowing and his ego (if he has one, which is what we were about to find out) is in full gear. I throw in something completely random. Renegades of funk. BUT- I am certain Ghaff did not recognize that as a song or a band. He probably did not know who they were...(It has nothing to do with what the songs are about either-since you seem to be stuck on that)...So I throw in Rage, and slightly disguise it with the conversation. Then I keep feeding it and ask him to respond to it. When he finally does respond to it, with some knowledge about something, because he is always right and never wrong and the research king...Then we show him that they are lyrics to a song, and it has NOTHING (as you so smartly figured out) to do with anything.

He then sees for himself (a reflection of himself) that he is not always right, never wrong, all knowing, research king etc etc etc etc...Which I am not saying he is. But we will not find out now either.

So to review that for you:
Throw out a red herring
Takes the bait
Responds like they know what they are talking about when there is really nothing.
Sees for themselves what they are and what others have been saying.


Now of course, maybe he does not fall for it. He is a smart guy afterall. Then the rest of the board will know that he does have it together and is not as crazy as they think. Before I said we should all be after truth, not personal gain. That is what I was searching for. It is gone now, and you and I both look stupid for it. Let me know if you need me to go back through that again.

Some of the people on here, i am pretty sure, saw where this was heading. Which is why they did not respond with "why are your bringing rage into this?" when they did respond with "very nicely done" type of things. As you can see I was cracking up when I did it by my next post-where I had all the laughing smilies.



Ghaff- unlike the tongan I still have fun talking about this, so if you want feel free to explian further in detail about the nanites. Otherwise I think this thread has probably run its course.

Sorry I called you out, must have hurt your feelings to write me a letter.

[sirhcyennek81]

What I don't get is why so many people believe that a group incapable of something as simple as setting off a car bomb in Times Square is capable of multiple simultaneous hijackings resulting in the destruction of two of the worlds largest buildings and a direct attack on the military headquarters of the world's supreme superpower.

It simply does not make sense.

I don't know what exactly happened that day but what I know didn't happen is the "official" gov't story.


The first mistake is thinking these people are so backwards that they are incapable of attacks like 9/11. The hijackers were not poor. They were educated in western schools, and their families were and are affluent. A majority of them got into the US on student visas. I do not believe a conspiracy existed, exists or will exist to manufacture terror attacks to increase the military budget.

The second mistake is automatically assuming our government was complicit in the attacks. Regardless of the nonsense gaff posts about french seismologists or oliver stone love letters to hugo chavez or nanotech and mininukes, its inane insanity.

Third mistake is forgetting the 9/11 attacks were the second on that building. It seems no one remembers 1993 and the truck bomb in the basement parking garage. Or the simultaneous attacks on the US embassies in Africa.

The OP is the dumbest thing I have ever heard or read since "We went into Iraq for their oil and into Afghanistan to build a natural gas pipeline" or "Obama is a Kenyan" or "George Bush sleeps with Condeleeza Rice" or "Jews used mini nukes to bring down the Twin Towers" or "steel doesnt melt" or "the moon landing was staged in Burbank, CA".

:Broncos:

[MplsBronco]

The first mistake is thinking these people are so backwards that they are incapable of attacks like 9/11. The hijackers were not poor. They were educated in western schools, and their families were and are affluent. A majority of them got into the US on student visas. I do not believe a conspiracy existed, exists or will exist to manufacture terror attacks to increase the military budget.

The second mistake is automatically assuming our government was complicit in the attacks. Regardless of the nonsense gaff posts about french seismologists or oliver stone love letters to hugo chavez or nanotech and mininukes, its inane insanity.

Third mistake is forgetting the 9/11 attacks were the second on that building. It seems no one remembers 1993 and the truck bomb in the basement parking garage. Or the simultaneous attacks on the US embassies in Africa.

The OP is the dumbest thing I have ever heard or read since "We went into Iraq for their oil and into Afghanistan to build a natural gas pipeline" or "Obama is a Kenyan" or "George Bush sleeps with Condeleeza Rice" or "Jews used mini nukes to bring down the Twin Towers" or "steel doesnt melt" or "the moon landing was staged in Burbank, CA".

:Broncos:

I never made a judgement on the intelligence of "terrorists". I realize Bin Laden comes from an affluent family that is well traveled. I don't consider them backwards, so that assumption is your mistake.

The fact that that none of the airplanes were intercepted on 9/11 does point to gov't complicity, or if you want to believe incompetence, go ahead. But again this is the best military in the world. It is nonsensical to think they were just "confused" that day.

I haven't forgotten about the first attack in '93. But I will give you that one and retract my statement about being incapable of car bomb. However, a car/truck bomb is a far cry from the proposed events of 9/11. Plus the accused would have to know the reaction it would spur so what exactly have they gained? And why not follow it up with more mayhem that could easily be planned/executed. Why does no one question the Anthrax scare right after 9/11. A useful diversion is what it was if you ask me.

So, why do you think we went into Iraq?

[sirhcyennek81]

I never made a judgement on the intelligence of "terrorists". I realize Bin Laden comes from an affluent family that is well traveled. I don't consider them backwards, so that assumption is your mistake.

The fact that that none of the airplanes were intercepted on 9/11 does point to gov't complicity, or if you want to believe incompetence, go ahead. But again this is the best military in the world. It is nonsensical to think they were just "confused" that day.

I haven't forgotten about the first attack in '93. But I will give you that one and retract my statement about being incapable of car bomb. However, a car/truck bomb is a far cry from the proposed events of 9/11. Plus the accused would have to know the reaction it would spur so what exactly have they gained? And why not follow it up with more mayhem that could easily be planned/executed. Why does no one question the Anthrax scare right after 9/11. A useful diversion is what it was if you ask me.

So, why do you think we went into Iraq?


Several reasons.

The most obvious was WMD(spare me the Iraq didnt have WMD...no one knew for sure in 2003, and simply because we have not found them does not mean they do not exist. Lots of sand and empty spaces in Iraq and Syria). Followed by Saddam sponsoring terror attacks, third being he was a douche and had to go. Saddam would not have changed, the sanctions would have eventually ended, and eventually the twit would have started up his wmd programs again. For strategic purposes, having American military personnel on either side of Iran is not a bad idea, either.

An airplane is nothing more than a giant explosive-laden truck bomb. Flying a nearly completely fueled plane into a highrise in Manhattan is diabolical and outside our collective imagination. No one thinks about that type of stuff until it happens. But clearly Osama sitting in a cave talking to his sycophantic followers went there and realized it was entirely possible to pull off. Also, the US reaction time was thrown off by mass confusion on the ground and in the air. Several thousand commercial airplanes are overhead on any given day. US military also looks outside US borders for threats, not inside them. Also a communication gap between air traffic control and US military installations. No one expected our own airplanes to be used as missiles, and if they did it would have been considered an "out there" thought.

Its my belief terrorism exists to create anarchy. You do that by making a population fearful and distrustful of their government and of one another. Eventually you hope a tipping point comes and the great power you started out fighting collapses or withdraws to deal with internal divisions and social disintergration. Osama knows or did know that you will not beat the US in a one on one fight. So instead you try to bleed them in 1000 places. 9/11 was not the first attack on Americans by Al Qaeda, and will not be the last. What they get out of it eventually (they hope) is that the US collapses, and then they can establish a world wide Caliphate. A world united under Islam. Thats what they get out of it.

:Broncos:

[W*GS]

<a href="http://www.911myths.com/index.php/No_Seismic_Proof">Once again, gaff-o is full of horsepuckey.</a>

[mhgaffney]

Here is the truth: flying a Boeing 767 into a 200 foot wide high rise at 500 mph is extremely difficult -- even for a fully trained and experienced pilot -- and is impossible for a novice pilot.

You clowns swallow propaganda like a puppy dog grabbing hand outs.

Tell you a story.

On September 11 a Boeing 737 flight instructor named Don Govatos was training pilots in a flight simulator located at the Phoenix AP. He and his crew emerged from the simulator as the towers were hit and watched the rest of the tragedy unfold on TV -- like the rest of us.

The AP was shut down within hours. Govatos and his class had to sleep at the AP that night. The next morning he took them back into the simulator and set the machine for the WTC. He said: "Let's see if we can hit the towers..."

His class was made up of experienced pilots -- with years of experience flying other commercial planes. They had also just passed their training course in a Boeing 737 -- but no one in the class could hit the WTC at 500 mph.

Govatos said he managed it -- but only after several attempts.

Remember -- this was a Boeing 737 - which is smaller and more maneuverable than a Boeing 767.

Bottom line-=- flunky Islamic pilots could never have done the deed. None of the alleged hijack pilots had actual flight experience in a 767. They were licensed only for smaller propeller driven planes. Their training had been in Cessnas. The official story is a bald faced lie.

It's nothing but propaganda and you clowns have internalized it hook line and sinker. You are sheep being led to slaughter.

MHG

[sirhcyennek81]

Here is the truth: flying a Boeing 767 into a 200 foot wide high rise at 500 mph is extremely difficult -- even for a fully trained and experienced pilot -- and is impossible for a novice pilot.

You clowns swallow propaganda like a puppy dog grabbing hand outs.

Tell you a story.

On September 11 a Boeing 737 flight instructor named Don Govatos was training pilots in a flight simulator located at the Phoenix AP. He and his crew emerged from the simulator as the towers were hit and watched the rest of the tragedy unfold on TV -- like the rest of us.

The AP was shut down within hours. Govatos and his class had to sleep at the AP that night. The next morning he took them back into the simulator and set the machine for the WTC. He said: "Let's see if we can hit the towers..."

His class was made up of experienced pilots -- with years of experience flying other commercial planes. They had also just passed their training course in a Boeing 737 -- but no one in the class could hit the WTC at 500 mph.

Govatos said he managed it -- but only after several attempts.

Remember -- this was a Boeing 737 - which is smaller and more maneuverable than a Boeing 767.

Bottom line-=- flunky Islamic pilots could never have done the deed. None of the alleged hijack pilots had actual flight experience in a 767. They were licensed only for smaller propeller driven planes. Their training had been in Cessnas. The official story is a bald faced lie.

It's nothing but propaganda and you clowns have internalized it hook line and sinker. You are sheep being led to slaughter.

MHG


Yet they did. I notice whenever someone refutes you, you simply move on to the next conspiracy theory.

Being you must be horrible.

:Broncos:

[theAPAOps5]

Here is the truth: flying a Boeing 767 into a 200 foot wide high rise at 500 mph is extremely difficult -- even for a fully trained and experienced pilot -- and is impossible for a novice pilot.

You clowns swallow propaganda like a puppy dog grabbing hand outs.

Tell you a story.

On September 11 a Boeing 737 flight instructor named Don Govatos was training pilots in a flight simulator located at the Phoenix AP. He and his crew emerged from the simulator as the towers were hit and watched the rest of the tragedy unfold on TV -- like the rest of us.

The AP was shut down within hours. Govatos and his class had to sleep at the AP that night. The next morning he took them back into the simulator and set the machine for the WTC. He said: "Let's see if we can hit the towers..."

His class was made up of experienced pilots -- with years of experience flying other commercial planes. They had also just passed their training course in a Boeing 737 -- but no one in the class could hit the WTC at 500 mph.

Govatos said he managed it -- but only after several attempts.

Remember -- this was a Boeing 737 - which is smaller and more maneuverable than a Boeing 767.

Bottom line-=- flunky Islamic pilots could never have done the deed. None of the alleged hijack pilots had actual flight experience in a 767. They were licensed only for smaller propeller driven planes. Their training had been in Cessnas. The official story is a bald faced lie.

It's nothing but propaganda and you clowns have internalized it hook line and sinker. You are sheep being led to slaughter.

MHG

So difficult yet you claim it was done by remote control. You are the biggest dumb ass on this board.

[W*GS]

gaff-o is Gish galloping. When a claim is shown to be BS, move onto something else. Repeat as needed.

[That One Guy]

So difficult yet you claim it was done by remote control. You are the biggest dumb ass on this board.

This is one of his best yet. Is he actually trying to debate that planes hit the WTC that day? I bet I can find more witnesses that say planes hit the building than he can find that say there was an explosion 15 seconds before the the plane hit and it just levitated, suspended for that time period until a plane knocked it out of balance and it all fell apart.

Seriously? Pilots couldn't have done it? Really? And what kind of arrogant prick gets his buddies together while people are still being pulled from the rubble and tries to see if they can replicate a terrorist attack?

[baja]

A comment, for any intelligent people who happen to drop into this thread:

Notice the mob mentality. As Ro points out, this thread shows narcissism of the most puerile kind. Notice how no one comments on the substance of the paper posted at the top of the thread. I am happy to discuss the paper -- and the evidence -- but notice there is nothing to discuss with this crowd.

How to reason with a mob? Impossible.

This thread does illustrate the problem in our nation, at present. Droves of Americans are in flight -- running away from the issues at hand. No one is standing firm.

And this goes for Baja too -- who felt he had to leave the US. Some kind of flight to presumed safety.

Clearly, the US is in free fall -- with no bottom in sight. Only one thing seems certain. Things will get worse before they get better.
MHG

I moved to Mexico 25 years ago for a business opportunity but don't let the facts get in your way there gaff. Given this assumption of your's how are you different from wags and meck and a few others that you has such great distain for.

[mhgaffney]

Thanks for clarifying that minor detail, Baja.

Having clarified that piece of trivia -- what about the real issue? When are you going to speak to that?

The real issue is the deafening silence on this board and in this country about the article posted at the top of this thread.

Only bozos believe the plane impacts on 9/11 generated seismic spikes. AA 11 and UAL 175 were flying parallel with the earth when they hit the WTC. Anyone who took high school physics ought to know this means there was a zero force vector aimed at the earth. The impacts were absorbed by the towers. Most of the kinetic energy was dissipated as motion -- when the towers swayed back and forth.

As we know -- UAL 93 crashed at Shanksville in a nose dive -- hit the ground at 500 mph at a 40 degree angle -- according to the official story at 10:03 AM -- yet generated no seismic signal. None whatsoever.

The seismic signals at the WTC pre impact were huge explosions. Nothing else can account for them.

When are you going to weigh in on this, Baja?

[W*GS]

I gotta give gaff-o credit for being resolute in his beliefs despite the fact that reality disagrees with him.

Isn't that a definition of insanity?

[The Lone Bolt]

The real issue is the deafening silence on this board and in this country about the article posted at the top of this thread.


I just can't help but comment on this. Your hypocrisy is astounding. I've lost count of how many times you have responded with "deafening silence" when confronted with facts that undermine your conspiracy theories.

<a href= "http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=89354"> This thread alone</a> is full of "deafening silence" from Mark Gaffney.


Please don't make me laugh.

[baja]

Thanks for clarifying that minor detail, Baja.

Having clarified that piece of trivia -- what about the real issue? When are you going to speak to that?

The real issue is the deafening silence on this board and in this country about the article posted at the top of this thread.

Only bozos believe the plane impacts on 9/11 generated seismic spikes. AA 11 and UAL 175 were flying parallel with the earth when they hit the WTC. Anyone who took high school physics ought to know this means there was a zero force vector aimed at the earth. The impacts were absorbed by the towers. Most of the kinetic energy was dissipated as motion -- when the towers swayed back and forth.

As we know -- UAL 93 crashed at Shanksville in a nose dive -- hit the ground at 500 mph at a 40 degree angle -- according to the official story at 10:03 AM -- yet generated no seismic signal. None whatsoever.

The seismic signals at the WTC pre impact were huge explosions. Nothing else can account for them.

When are you going to weigh in on this, Baja?

I weighed in during 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007.

I accept there is a hidden agenda that spells trouble for life as we have know it growing up. What I have done about it? I have created a community for kindred souls to live in peace off the grid and in harmony with nature on a remote ranch somewhere in the mountains of southern Baja. What have you done to prepare for the coming events besides whine and call people names over and over and over?

[Rohirrim]

I gotta give gaff-o credit for being resolute in his beliefs despite the fact that reality disagrees with him.

Isn't that a definition of insanity?

Der Gaffenator laughs in the face of reality!

[mhgaffney]

I just can't help but comment on this. Your hypocrisy is astounding. I've lost count of how many times you have responded with "deafening silence" when confronted with facts that undermine your conspiracy theories.

<a href= "http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=89354"> This thread alone</a> is full of "deafening silence" from Mark Gaffney.


Please don't make me laugh.

When I first posted the letter from NTSB last winter which affirmed that my numbers regarding the world trade center's huge factor of safety were correct in fact they were spot on --- you laughed at me.

The numbers showed that the building had redundant strength and could not be brought down by airplane impacts --

Later -- your expert from RANDI conceded that the numbers were correct -- but he argued that the strength of the building did not matter -- and was irrelevant...

You swallowed this absurd conclusion at the time. And now you claim that I was refuted?!

Meanwhile, you ignore the paper at the top of this thread -- which supports the other evidence of the use of explosives at the WTC.

To recap the other evidence, none of which has been refuted: eyewitness accounts, discovery of ordnance residues and actual flakes of ordnance in the WTC dust, and Rick Siegel's actual videos from 9/11 -- which include an audio record of the explosions going off.

Whiff on...

[mhgaffney]

I weighed in during 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007.

I accept there is a hidden agenda that spells trouble for life as we have know it growing up. What I have done about it? I have created a community for kindred souls to live in peace off the grid and in harmony with nature on a remote ranch somewhere in the mountains of southern Baja. What have you done to prepare for the coming events besides whine and call people names over and over and over?

So, Baja concedes he has given up trying to turn things around. Baja concedes that the only answer is to get the Fock out of the states and prepare for survival mode.

Thanks Baja. A few of us will persevere to the bitter end -- still believing that political change is possible.

If the worst happens, i.e. nuclear war,. you will not do much better in Mexico -- no matter your preparations.

Gold/silver and stockpiles of food will not save you. Sorry.

MHG

[mhgaffney]

Der Gaffenator laughs in the face of reality!

Ro,

Reality? Or mere wordplay on your part?

As you surely know, most Americans live in a false reality - of total mind control. This consciousness of the masses is a fiction -- created and maintained by propaganda..

I'm still waiting for you or anybody to show me how the analysis posted at the top of this thread is wrong. No one has proved it wrong, thus far..

Instead of thinking -- you guys merely react. That's why I correctly refer to you as "knee jerks."

If the shoe fits...

MHG

[W*GS]

gaff-o is circling around, again.

We smash his commentary to smithereens, he goes off and sulks for a while, then comes back with the *same* *argument*.

Walls and bloody foreheads come to mind.

[baja]

So, Baja concedes he has given up trying to turn things around. Baja concedes that the only answer is to get the Fock out of the states and prepare for survival mode.

Thanks Baja. A few of us will persevere to the bitter end -- still believing that political change is possible.

If the worst happens, i.e. nuclear war,. you will not do much better in Mexico -- no matter your preparations.

Gold/silver and stockpiles of food will not save you. Sorry.

MHG

I am not asking to be "saved" All I have done is share my plan with those that might be interested. I live by the philosophy that all you have in life is each moment. I try not dwell in the past or project into the future.

You go right ahead and "persevere", I wish you well but by the looks of the responses here you are not forwarding your cause very well. If fact you are succeeding in convincing the posting body here that you are crazy and your ideas live between your ears only. Congratulations on giving a big assist to the false flaggers like Dick Chaney they count on guys like you.

[baja]

So, Baja concedes he has given up trying to turn things around.<b> Baja concedes that the only answer is to get the Fock out of the states and prepare for survival mode.</b>

Thanks Baja. A few of us will persevere to the bitter end -- still believing that political change is possible.

If the worst happens, i.e. nuclear war,. you will not do much better in Mexico -- no matter your preparations.

Gold/silver and stockpiles of food will not save you. Sorry.

MHG

I moved to Mexico in 1984 - talk about foresight!!

Ya know Mark you had only two guys in your corner now you got one.

[The Lone Bolt]

When I first posted the letter from NTSB last winter which affirmed that my numbers regarding the world trade center's huge factor of safety were correct in fact they were spot on --- you laughed at me.

The numbers showed that the building had redundant strength and could not be brought down by airplane impacts --

Later -- your expert from RANDI conceded that the numbers were correct -- but he argued that the strength of the building did not matter -- and was irrelevant...

You swallowed this absurd conclusion at the time. And now you claim that I was refuted?!

Argument from personal incredulity, which is not a counter-argument. You offered nothing in the way of logic or evidence to counter his position.

Meanwhile, you ignore the paper at the top of this thread -- which supports the other evidence of the use of explosives at the WTC.

To recap the other evidence, none of which has been refuted: eyewitness accounts, discovery of ordnance residues and actual flakes of ordnance in the WTC dust, and Rick Siegel's actual videos from 9/11 -- which include an audio record of the explosions going off.

Whiff on...

Jeez you are in massive denial. All of these issues have been thoroughly refuted, along with the siesmic readings baloney which is the subject of the above paper.

I don't see any reason to readdress long-debunked nonsense. Just read the link W*GS provided.

[mhgaffney]

I am not asking to be "saved" All I have done is share my plan with those that might be interested. I live by the philosophy that all you have in life is each moment. I try not dwell in the past or project into the future.

You go right ahead and "persevere", I wish you well but by the looks of the responses here you are not forwarding your cause very well. If fact you are succeeding in convincing the posting body here that you are crazy and your ideas live between your ears only. Congratulations on giving a big assist to the false flaggers like Dick Chaney they count on guys like you.

You are full of yourself.

I have posted detailed papers with sources footnoted. You are blaming me because the local population of droids can neither think or read with comprehension?

So you think this board is typical of America? If that's the case -- then G-d help us. You should be giving heat to the rightards -- instead of going after me.

I do what I do because I am a writer and a writer's job is to speak the hard truths -- especially the dark stuff that few want to hear. I could care less what you or anyone here thinks of me. I hear from many people who take the trouble to read my books and articles. Their positive words and encouragement inspire me to carry on.

One day -- when some of the knee jerks have finally opened their eyes -- they will thank me.
MHG

[mhgaffney]

Dolt,

Where is the refutation of the article posted atop this thread? Where? Please enlighten me.

Where is the positive force vector into the earth from AA 11 as it hit WTC-1? There was none. No force vector into the earth = no seismic signal. Simple as that.

The signal happened 15+ seconds BEFORE the moment of impact -- which is irreconcilable with the plane impact -- and is hard evidence of a major explosion. One in the WTC basement and coupled with the earth.

**********

Another question: Do you believe that the factor of safety, i.e., the redundant strength of the WTC steel, was irrelevant? That is what your RANDI "expert" argued on this board. You and many others swallowed his absurd nonsense.
MHG

[That One Guy]

Dolt,

Where is the refutation of the article posted atop this thread? Where? Please enlighten me.

Where is the positive force vector into the earth from AA 11 as it hit WTC-1? There was none. No force vector into the earth = no seismic signal. Simple as that.

The signal happened 15+ seconds BEFORE the moment of impact -- which is irreconcilable with the plane impact -- and is hard evidence of a major explosion. One in the WTC basement and coupled with the earth.

**********

Another question: Do you believe that the factor of safety, i.e., the redundant strength of the WTC steel, was irrelevant? That is what your RANDI "expert" argued on this board. You and many others swallowed his absurd nonsense.
MHG

What happened in that 15 seconds between the bomb and the plane?

I see smoke, flames, carnage, etc from the plane. Why does life continue as everyone knew it until that point? I mean, the bomb was big enough to bring down a WTC tower, for god's sake.

[mhgaffney]

No, the first blast in the basement probably cut one or more core columns -- weakening WTC-1 -- but did not compromise the building.

The box columns in the WTC core were 7 inches thick at the base. Monster columns. The redundancies were unreal.

It took numerous explosions in the core to sufficiently weaken the towers -- so that the final series of explosions at the time of the collapse brought down the building.

Here's a shot of a core column -- from close to the base. You can see the steel is 5-6 inches thick.

http://www.phaidon.com/aftermath/image4.html

[That One Guy]

If an airplane couldn't do it, it had to be a big explosion. You don't hide an explosion like that in NYC

[W*GS]

Dolt,

Where is the refutation of the article posted atop this thread? Where? Please enlighten me.

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/No_Seismic_Proof

Not that you'll be enlightened at all, dork.

[DenverBrit]

You are full of yourself.

I have posted detailed papers with sources footnoted. You are blaming me because the local population of droids can neither think or read with comprehension?

So you think this board is typical of America? If that's the case -- then G-d help us. You should be giving heat to the rightards -- instead of going after me.

I do what I do because I am a writer and a writer's job is to speak the hard truths -- especially the dark stuff that few want to hear. I could care less what you or anyone here thinks of me. I hear from many people who take the trouble to read my books and articles. Their positive words and encouragement inspire me to carry on.

One day -- when some of the knee jerks have finally opened their eyes -- they will thank me.
MHG

You're a disgusting excuse for a human being.
You cling to your ridiculous conspiracy theories for one purpose: to make money from a tragedy that devastated thousands of families.
Not once, have you or any of the other leaches with your money making schemes, come up with a thread of evidence that 911 was anything other than a terrorist attack.
Fortunately, you haven't profited much from your get rich scheme, but you and your little band of leaches keep the wound open for those who lost family and friends.

You're a self promoting pompous prick. If you're not in therapy, you should be.

[Bronco Yoda]

I will not allow this thread to be hijacked.

That's why we are starting over. Take it from the top.
MHG


Earlier this year, a French seismologist, Andre Rousseau, concluded that the official interpretation of the 9/11 seismic data does not withstand scrutiny. Rousseau does a nice job explaining why the official story cannot be correct.

Go here:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/209899-A-New-Study-of-the-Seismic-Signals-on-September-11-2001-in-New-York

Here's a capsule: The time of the first plane (AA 11) impact is known from the 9/11 radar data. Yet the first seismic signal happened 15 seconds BEFORE the impact. The distance from the WTC to the seismic station is known -- along with the rate of propagation of the signal through the ground. The impact and seismic signal should therefor correlate to within a second. But they don't.

The 15-second time disparity means that something else caused the spike. Rousseau concludes this was a huge explosion in the basement of WTC 1. Which confirms eyewitness accounts by William Rodriguez and others who reported that a huge blast ripped through WTC 1 seconds BEFORE the plane impact.

Moreover, Rousseau points out that a plane impact in a high rise would be dampened by the building before the shock ever reached the ground -- and therefor would not even generate a seismic signal. So the view we have been told -- that the plane impacts caused seismic spikes -- is garbage -- and always was.

Furthermore, Rousseau points out that seismic studies of demolitions (the King Dome etc) have shown that building collapses do not generate seismic signals. Gravity is not nearly powerful enough to generate seismic signals. This means that the large spikes attending the collapse of each WTC tower were not generated by falling material -- but by explosions. Only earthquakes and powerful explosions can generate seismic signals.

Rousseau's analysis was posted in English last June -- however, I just learned about it from a French activist.

You ask why have American seismologists not weighed in on this? The answer is simple. The Frenchman is not worried about losing his job at an American institution - or his funding. He can speak without constraint. To get the truth about 9/11 you must go outside the US.

MHG

I don't claim to know what happened. But I do find this interesting. there are people who were in the Tower 1 that swear that they felt an explosion 8-10 seconds from deep below before the planes impact.

[W*GS]

I don't claim to know what happened. But I do find this interesting. there are people who were in the Tower 1 that swear that they felt an explosion 8-10 seconds from deep below before the planes impact.

Who are these people? References, please.

[Bronco Yoda]

I don't collect and compile this ****. Do your own thinking. Google is your friend.

[W*GS]

I don't collect and compile this ****. Do your own thinking. Google is your friend.

Figures. Make a claim and then backpedal.

[Bronco Yoda]

Oh the irony. Seek help my friend.

I don't claim to know what happened. But I do find this interesting. there are people who were in the Tower 1 that swear that they felt an explosion 8-10 seconds from deep below before the planes impact.

[The Lone Bolt]

Dolt,

Where is the refutation of the article posted atop this thread? Where? Please enlighten me.

Where is the positive force vector into the earth from AA 11 as it hit WTC-1? There was none. No force vector into the earth = no seismic signal. Simple as that.

The signal happened 15+ seconds BEFORE the moment of impact -- which is irreconcilable with the plane impact -- and is hard evidence of a major explosion. One in the WTC basement and coupled with the earth.

**********

Another question: Do you believe that the factor of safety, i.e., the redundant strength of the WTC steel, was irrelevant? That is what your RANDI "expert" argued on this board. You and many others swallowed his absurd nonsense.
MHG

The article is nothing but garbage -- period. End of story. How you can swallow its absurd conclusions is beyond me.

[W*GS]

The article is nothing but garbage -- period. End of story. How you can swallow its absurd conclusions is beyond me.

gaff-o swallows far more than is healthy. Rod Stewart got nothing on gaff-o.

[Bronco Yoda]

You need to put away your hate. It's not healthy.

[mhgaffney]

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/No_Seismic_Proof

Not that you'll be enlightened at all, dork.

I checked the link. It attempts to show that the seismic spikes line up with the plane impacts.

IMO the argument fails. But even if you agree with it -- there is no mention of the other problem -- why would planes flying parallel with the earth generate seismic signals at all?

As I stated -- the force vector into the earth was zero. And this was true with both impacts. The towers absorbed the kinetic energy of the plane impacts and mostly dissipated it in the form of motion as the towers swayed back and forth.

You would not expect a seismic signal from such an impact.

Even UAL 93 -- which crashed nose down in Shanksville at 500 mph -- with a large associated force vector into the earth -- generated no seismic signal.

Ergo: the seismic spikes at the WTC pre collapse are unexplained and anomalous. In fact, they are only explainable in terms of explosion. These signals corroborate the testimony of many eyewitnesses.

[W*GS]

I checked the link. It attempts to show that the seismic spikes line up with the plane impacts.

IMO the argument fails.

Your idiotic opinion against facts, evidence, and reason? Why would anyone believe you?

But even if you agree with it -- there is no mention of the other problem -- why would planes flying parallel with the earth generate seismic signals at all?

As I stated -- the force vector into the earth was zero. And this was true with both impacts. The towers absorbed the kinetic energy of the plane impacts and mostly dissipated it in the form of motion as the towers swayed back and forth.

You would not expect a seismic signal from such an impact.

Towers weighing 500,000 tons each swaying as if from an earthquake will definitely generate a seismic signal, idiot.

You always jump to unwarranted conclusions. You have since day one. Since the towers' swaying was sufficient to generate a seismic signal, there's no need to posit basement explosions. Sheesh.

[mhgaffney]

"As if from an earthquake"? What earthquake?

A plane impact is nothing compared to an earthquake.

[SoCalBronco]

I moved to Mexico 25 years ago for a business opportunity but don't let the facts get in your way there gaff. Given this assumption of your's how are you different from wags and meck and a few others that you has such great distain for.

I have been telling you for years that this guy was a clown and a fraud and a dangerous oppurtunist with dollar signs in his eyes and now he's literally making stuff up about your past. I'm glad you called him out tho, but I hope you now can see with your own eyes that this guy will twist anything and everything to fit into his worldview/money making venture.

Next time, don't tell us to "give Mark a chance" or "read what he wrote". He's full of **** dude and you know it.

[theAPAOps5]

I have been telling you for years that this guy was a clown and a fraud and a dangerous oppurtunist with dollar signs in his eyes and now he's literally making stuff up about your past. I'm glad you called him out tho, but I hope you now can see with your own eyes that this guy will twist anything and everything to fit into his worldview/money making venture.

Next time, don't tell us to "give Mark a chance" or "read what he wrote". He's full of **** dude and you know it.

The bolded part needs to be remembered by everyone who reads Gaff's crap.

[W*GS]

"As if from an earthquake"? What earthquake?

A plane impact is nothing compared to an earthquake.

Sigh. You didn't read the link I provided at all.

You're a clueless git.

[El Jué]

If Gaffney were anywhere near sniffing some hidden truth of the events of 9/11, he'd be dead and the truth would remain untold.

I'll reevaluate his credibility when I hear that he's been assassinated.

[mhgaffney]

I post a paper by a French Seismologist -- and you accuse me of trying to make a buck? How does that follow?

Your logic here is looney.

There are con artists everywhere who schmooze their way into your wallet. They tell you what you want to here, then -- when you turn your head -- find a way to screw you.

This is very different. You guys are avoiding the issue. Simple as that. It's a very old story. You can't handle the message so you crucify the messenger.

[El Jué]

I post a paper by a French Seismologist -- and you accuse me of trying to make a buck? How does that follow?

Your logic here is looney.

There are con artists everywhere who schmooze their way into your wallet. They tell you what you want to here, then -- when you turn your head -- find a way to screw you.

This is very different. You guys are avoiding the issue. Simple as that. It's a very old story. You can't handle the message so you crucify the messenger.

We think the message is bull****. The messenger is a toy.

[Rohirrim]

If Gaffney were anywhere near sniffing some hidden truth of the events of 9/11, he'd be dead and the truth would remain untold.

I'll reevaluate his credibility when I hear that he's been assassinated.

There's no need to assassinate anybody anymore. Let the truth come out. Let it be covered on all the stations. Splatter it all over the web. It wouldn't matter. Nobody gives a ****. Look at wikileaks. Only the diplomats give a ****. The American people read that **** and say, "Doesn't mean anything to my life." Did the war in Afghanistan even come up during the last election? If America invaded Iran tomorrow, I doubt there would be more than a few token protests. America is on Prozac. Nobody cares.

[underrated29]

Even UAL 93 -- which crashed nose down in Shanksville at 500 mph -- with a large associated force vector into the earth -- generated no seismic signal.

.[/B]



Ghaff---Correct me if I am wrong, as I do not spend my life on 9/11- But that plane did not crash nose first at 500 mph.....That is the plane that the passengers took over then is it not?

That is the plane that they tried to land! They crash landed, but they did not crash. There is a difference between landing a plane and crashing a plane. I am sure you can accept the fact that there is a difference. And it also would make sense why there is not a huge seismic spike?

Also one has to wonder where the nearest seismograph was in relation to where the plane hit? In NYC- you said there was one that was pretty close. 34 meters or miles or something. I dont remember...What about this one? If there was not one even in the vacinity it also further why there might be no seismic rift.

[DenverBrit]

I post a paper by a French Seismologist -- and you accuse me of trying to make a buck? How does that follow?

Your logic here is looney.

There are con artists everywhere who schmooze their way into your wallet. They tell you what you want to here, then -- when you turn your head -- find a way to screw you.

This is very different. You guys are avoiding the issue. Simple as that. It's a very old story. You can't handle the message so you crucify the messenger.

You're the expert on 'Looney.'

You'll promote anything, no matter how asinine, if it agrees with your craziness and personal agenda.

Gaffney, your attempts at cashing in on those who personally suffered on 911 is both offensive and disgusting.

[El Jué]

There's no need to assassinate anybody anymore. Let the truth come out. Let it be covered on all the stations. Splatter it all over the web. It wouldn't matter. Nobody gives a ****. Look at wikileaks. Only the diplomats give a ****. The American people read that **** and say, "Doesn't mean anything to my life." Did the war in Afghanistan even come up during the last election? If America invaded Iran tomorrow, I doubt there would be more than a few token protests. America is on Prozac. Nobody cares.

Save it. I have no use for your opinion.

[SoCalBronco]

The article is nothing but garbage -- period. End of story. How you can swallow its absurd conclusions is beyond me.

I'll give you a hint:

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[mhgaffney]

Ghaff---Correct me if I am wrong, as I do not spend my life on 9/11- But that plane did not crash nose first at 500 mph.....That is the plane that the passengers took over then is it not?

That is the plane that they tried to land! They crash landed, but they did not crash. There is a difference between landing a plane and crashing a plane. I am sure you can accept the fact that there is a difference. And it also would make sense why there is not a huge seismic spike?

Also one has to wonder where the nearest seismograph was in relation to where the plane hit? In NYC- you said there was one that was pretty close. 34 meters or miles or something. I dont remember...What about this one? If there was not one even in the vacinity it also further why there might be no seismic rift.

No, under,

UAL 93 went down at Shanksville -- supposedly during a fight on board as the passengers stormed the cockpit --

It did not crash land. It crashed nose down at a 40-degree angle. The speed was 500 mph -- if you believe the official story.

It did NOT cause a seismic signal.

There is a dispute about the crash time. The seismic stations registered a signal at 10:06 -- but the other evidence (radar, CVR, FDR, ATC tapes) all indicates it went down at 10:03 -- and caused no seismic signal.

If it crashed at 10:03-- then what caused the spike at 10:06?

It's one of the genuine 9/11 mysteries.

MHG

[mhgaffney]

If Gaffney were anywhere near sniffing some hidden truth of the events of 9/11, he'd be dead and the truth would remain untold.

I'll reevaluate his credibility when I hear that he's been assassinated.

You are blathering nonsense -- like the other knee jerks on the OM.

Apparently you failed to notice that career CIA and US military intelligence officers agree with me -- that we've been massively lied to...

You did not see this?

When are you going to wake up, El Jue, when you are dead?

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[El Jué]

You are blathering nonsense -- like the other knee jerks on the OM.

Apparently you failed to notice that career CIA and US military intelligence officers agree with me -- that we've been massively lied to...

You did not see this?

When are you going to wake up, El Jue, when you are dead?

You don't strike me as the kind of guy who usually believes career CIA and military intelligence officers, Gaffney. Perhaps you're just really gifted in knowing which ones are telling the real truth.

Then again, maybe the guys who support your position are lying, or they're mistaken, or they're engaging in misinformation, or maybe they're just bat **** crazy. After all, I'm sure their chosen career field is stressful. Who knows what could happen to a man who chooses such a career?

It could be also that they're quite sane, but they'd like to sell as many books as possible to people who are bat **** crazy. It's just so difficult to be certain about their motives.

At any rate, I won't need to worry about waking up. I mean, why would I want to go to sleep? I'd miss your fantastic (and I use the word precisely) bedtime stories.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

When are you going to wake up, El Jue, when you are dead?



Maybe when he runs out of screen names. :D

[TDmvp]

Maybe when he runs out of screen names. :D

:spit:

[El Jué]

Maybe when he runs out of screen names. :D

Curses.

[mhgaffney]

You don't strike me as the kind of guy who usually believes career CIA and military intelligence officers, Gaffney. Perhaps you're just really gifted in knowing which ones are telling the real truth.

Then again, maybe the guys who support your position are lying, or they're mistaken, or they're engaging in misinformation, or maybe they're just bat **** crazy. After all, I'm sure their chosen career field is stressful. Who knows what could happen to a man who chooses such a career?

It could be also that they're quite sane, but they'd like to sell as many books as possible to people who are bat **** crazy. It's just so difficult to be certain about their motives.

At any rate, I won't need to worry about waking up. I mean, why would I want to go to sleep? I'd miss your fantastic (and I use the word precisely) bedtime stories.

I suggest you go up to amazon and check out Anthony Shaffer's new book, OPERATION DARK HEART.

The Pentagon bought up the entire first edition -- then burned it. Then they demanded that Shaffer hand over the book manuscript. They proceeded to censure much of the book.

If you visit amazon you will read the many one star reviews by irate readers. They are not angry with Shaffer -- but with the deepening US police state.

Shaffer is no boy scout --but he is my kind of guy. He remains steadfast -- unfazed by the Pentagon's attempts to silence him. I admire him as much as Assange.

As for for Michael Scheuer, the CIA sacked him from the bin Laden desk in 1999 -- because Scheuer could not be turned. He was too honest. They brought in a replacement who played a key role, in 2000-2001, obstructing the FBI. This is why the FBI failed to roll up the terrorists and prevent 9/11.

It was a plot within a plot -- orchestrated from above. The plot was meant to succeed. The US was betrayed by traitors at the highest levels.

MHG

[El Jué]

I suggest you go up to amazon and check out Anthony Shaffer's new book, OPERATION DARK HEART.

Yeah. That's going to happen.

[Rohirrim]

Maybe when he runs out of screen names. :D

Oh? Who was he before?

[W*GS]

This is why the FBI failed to roll up the terrorists and prevent 9/11.


There were no al-Qaeda terrorists, according to you - OBL is just a patsy.

Now you've changed your mind?

WTF?!?!?!?

[Obushma]

There were no al-Qaeda terrorists, according to you - OBL is just a patsy.

Now you've changed your mind?

WTF?!?!?!?

God W*gs, how are the protocols treating you?

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[The Lone Bolt]

God W*gs, how are the protocols treating you?

It's a valid question. Until now Gaff has maintained that there were no terrorists, that al-Queda does not exist, that they are a corporate controlled media invention, that the planes were remote-controlled, that the towers were rigged with explosions by government agents, etc.

Now Gaff is saying "This is why the FBI failed to roll up the terrorists and prevent 9/11."

So there suddenly were terrorists? Seems like he's contradicting himself here. I agree that an explanation is in order.

[Obushma]

It's a valid question. Until now Gaff has maintained that there were no terrorists, that al-Queda does not exist, that they are a corporate controlled media invention, that the planes were remote-controlled, that the towers were rigged with explosions by government agents, etc.

Well that's not entirely true. Gaffney maintains that the US created a false flag. Wouldn't training and creating the organization that committed the attacks, without disclosing that information to the American public, be more in line with Gaffney's view on the attacks, then everyone else?

Building 7 is bull**** and anyone with a brain larger then a squirrel can figure that out. Tim Osman a.k.a. "Osama Bin Laden" was a CIA agent, probably still is (****, we can find a 16 year old kid hacking into Visa but we cant find a guy in a cave?). Too many put options on United Airlines stock (six times higher then normal) the week before 9/11.

Just too many unanswered questions by the lawyers and politicians they hired for the 9/11 commission report, it should have been engineers and scientists.

[TDmvp]

Hold it ? Now there wasn't mini nukes and remote controlled planes ? but actual terrorist who we got to do it ?

It's hard to keep up with which version of bull$hit we are arguing over this week..

[mhgaffney]

It's a valid question. Until now Gaff has maintained that there were no terrorists, that al-Queda does not exist, that they are a corporate controlled media invention, that the planes were remote-controlled, that the towers were rigged with explosions by government agents, etc.

Now Gaff is saying "This is why the FBI failed to roll up the terrorists and prevent 9/11."

So there suddenly were terrorists? Seems like he's contradicting himself here. I agree that an explanation is in order.

No, this is not correct. Don't presume to speak for me. And don't try to put words in my mouth.

As I have continued to study and learn, my views have evolved.

Based on the evidence -- I've come to believe that 9/11 was more complex than we have been told -- indeed more complex than most of us can imagine.

It was a plot within a plot.

If the full story is ever told -- truth will mock us-- like the gods.

MHG

[TDmvp]

No, this is not correct. Don't presume to speak for me. And don't try to put words in my mouth.

As I have continued to study and learn, my views have evolved.

Based on the evidence -- I've come to believe that 9/11 was more complex than we have been told -- indeed more complex than most of us can imagine.

It was a plot within a plot.

If the full story is ever told -- truth will mock us-- like the gods.

MHG



so much :spit: in that one Gaff ... Good times ...

[W*GS]

No matter what gaff-o says that we show is BS, in a few months he'll be back making the same BS assertions...

[orangeatheist]

You are blathering nonsense -- like the other knee jerks on the OM.

Then why the F*CK ARE YOU HERE???!!!! Your nonsense has convinced NO ONE. You're the focus of nothing but scorn and ridicule. What do you get out of being here? What purpose do you think you're serving? Are you some sort of lunatic who thinks he's a voice crying in the wilderness? A mental patient with access to a PC?

You are such an irritant. Such a waste of human flesh.

[baja]

Then why the **** ARE YOU HERE???!!!! Your nonsense has convinced NO ONE. You're the focus of nothing but scorn and ridicule. What do you get out of being here? What purpose do you think you're serving? Are you some sort of lunatic who thinks he's a voice crying in the wilderness? A mental patient with access to a PC?

<b>You are such an irritant. Such a waste of human flesh.

Only a narcissist or an atheist could justify a comment like this, You win a prize because you are both.

Why are you here (this reality)?