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Hercules Rockefeller
12-05-2010, 10:34 PM
is 6th

http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.html

Last week's order, but everyone above Denver also lost and Dallas won removing the need for a coin flip between the two teams for 6th and 7th.

Remaining schedules

Carolina

1-11

Atlanta
Arizona
@Pittsburgh
@Atlanta

Detroit

2-10

Green Bay
@Tampa
@Miami
Minnesota

Cincy

2-10

@Pitt
Cleveland
San Diego
@Baltimore

Buffalo

2-10

Cleveland
@Miami
New England
@New York

Arizona

3-9

Denver
@Carolina
Dallas
@San Fran

Arizona's SOS is much weaker than Denver's, so they would need to have a better record than Denver for the Broncos to move ahead of them.

The others have a much stronger SOS, so a similar record would result in Denver moving ahead of them.

The lowest 7-9 has picked is 15th in the past 5 seasons, the highest 7-9 has picked is 9th.

There have only been three 3-13 teams over the past 5 seasons. New Orleans and Detroit both picked 2nd in '05 and '06 respectively, and Tampa picked 3rd last year.

Homer Simpson
12-05-2010, 10:35 PM
Best front 7 player available. Same with round 2, both picks. O lineman for depth in a late is the only O pick I want to see.

Ratboy
12-05-2010, 10:36 PM
Crap.

Hopefully we lose out.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-05-2010, 10:38 PM
Its crazy that as bad as we are, there are five worse teams

strafen
12-05-2010, 10:42 PM
is 6th

http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.html

Last week's order, but everyone above Denver also lost and Dallas won removing the need for a coin flip between the two teams for 6th and 7th.

Remaining schedules

Carolina

1-11

Atlanta
Arizona
@Pittsburgh
@Atlanta

Detroit

2-10

Green Bay
@Tampa
@Miami
Minnesota

Cincy

2-10

@Pitt
Cleveland
San Diego
@Baltimore

Buffalo

2-10

Cleveland
@Miami
New England
@New York

Arizona

3-9

Denver
@Carolina
Dallas
@San Fran

Arizona's SOS is much weaker than Denver's, so they would need to have a better record than Denver for the Broncos to move ahead of them.

The others have a much stronger SOS, so a similar record would result in Denver moving ahead of them.

The lowest 7-9 has picked is 15th in the past 5 seasons, the highest 7-9 has picked is 9th.

There have only been three 3-13 teams over the past 5 seasons. New Orleans and Detroit both picked 2nd in '05 and '06 respectively, and Tampa picked 3rd last year.Damn!
They all have tough remaining schedule. Yikes!

Hercules Rockefeller
12-05-2010, 10:51 PM
Damn!
They all have tough remaining schedule. Yikes!

Denver only needs 1 game from 4 of those teams.

Arizona has Denver and Carolina (though a L vs Den and a win vs Car wouldn't do anything for the Broncos)

Buffalo and Cincy both have Cleveland at home

Detroit has Miami who is terrible at home and 2 home divisional games left.

footstepsfrom#27
12-05-2010, 10:56 PM
Drafting as high as we'll be this year, I question whether they'll keep the pick. I can see Mcd trading the 3rd or 4th pick overall for another 1st plus a bunch of dross, but if we do keep it, there's no question it has to be a front 7 defensive player, preferably a down lineman.

Kaylore
12-05-2010, 11:06 PM
Good grief Cincy has won only two games?!?

Come on, all those other teams. Pull one out!!!!

I really hope we can get into the top five.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-05-2010, 11:10 PM
Good grief Cincy has won only two games?!?

Come on, all those other teams. Pull one out!!!!

I really hope we can get into the top five.

If they lost out, the worst they could pick is 5th.

mkporter
12-05-2010, 11:18 PM
Good grief Cincy has won only two games?!?

Come on, all those other teams. Pull one out!!!!

I really hope we can get into the top five.

If we get top five, I really hope that they institute some sort of control on rookies salaries in the new CBA.

Finger Roll
12-05-2010, 11:20 PM
the second pick is very possible. I see Lions, Bills and Bengals all finishing at 3-13. Wouldn't suprise me if the broncos lost out

NFLBRONCO
12-05-2010, 11:41 PM
Looks like

3-13= pick highest-2 lowest-5

how about

4-12=
5-11=

cutthemdown
12-05-2010, 11:45 PM
Best front 7 player available. Same with round 2, both picks. O lineman for depth in a late is the only O pick I want to see.

Best case would have someone want a QB and us to have the pick. Probably won't happen though. But I agree front 7. I wouldn't be against packaging one of the 2nds to move up if it meant grabbing an impact player.

If we could move down with the number one, get an extra pick, then we could use the 2 2nds to move back into the first round.

Denver724
12-06-2010, 12:11 AM
I don't trust McD to do anything.

C130Herkload
12-06-2010, 12:19 AM
You guys act as if McD will even be around long enough to see the draft....dead man walking.

spdirty
12-06-2010, 12:22 AM
Would be huge if we lost to Arizona this week...would nearly guaruntee a better draft position than them.

cutthemdown
12-06-2010, 12:44 AM
Mcdaniels could very well be done. I figured we would lose this year but no one could guess it would unfold so poorly in other ways.

Raiders crush us like never before, spygate II, him sometimes just acting strange, the coaching break downs at certain times etc etc. How you lose games usually doesn't matter but when its consistently not just the poor talent, but also poor everything else, it's hard to say you could be 100% still behind the coach.

I can't say i didn't want the coach. I was on record in first coaching search threat wanting Mcdaniels.

So to even think Broncos will for sure be targeting 3-4 players is shortsighted. We have just as many if not more decent 4-3 players. Especially if the best prospects in the front 7 are 4-3 guys.

Stick DJ if we don't ditch him to the weakside. Let Haggan be depth, let Mays be depth, and look for a starting middle linebacker. Maybe just a journeyman avg player in FA. Or maybe Harris from NY if somehow we finally got lucky.

Then stick doom on end, Ayers on the other, draft a DT high in draft and cross our fingers. Fill other DT spot with a rotation probably with whatever we have left, or can scrape up in FA.

We could possibly draft a returner with some speed?

You can sometimes find a decent stopgap at safety in FA.

But SS/FS/CB/TE/LB could all see some attention at bottom of draft and in FA. I just hope they use the high picks on top end DT and then we hope they hit on them.

Fairly, Dareus, one of them I would think.

cutthemdown
12-06-2010, 12:46 AM
Would be huge if we lost to Arizona this week...would nearly guaruntee a better draft position than them.

They are pretty bad it will be a close game. I could also see Ariz taking a QB so them a spot ahead probably doesn't hurt as much. But if we got in front of them by a couple spots, or even 1, that could be huge.

Especially since teams like minny could want to leap up to take a QB. Or Miami, or a number of teams.

cutthemdown
12-06-2010, 12:49 AM
No way we don't end up with at least 3-4 spots on defense with crappy players. Just can't fix 7-8 spots in one off season.

Seriously it's that bad on defense.

The Joker
12-06-2010, 02:24 AM
My guess at present would be Marcel Dareus, Patrick Peterson or Prince Amukamara.

Dareus looks to me like a guy who could be one of the elite players in the league one day. He's got a mix of size, speed, power and agility that doesn't come along very often. He'd be a monster at DE for us and also a guy who we could move inside on passing downs and generate some push up the middle.

If he's there you don't think twice about putting the pick in IMO.

If not, then who knows. If the staff feels that one of the other D-Line prospects is an absolute gem of a prospect then of course you take him. But nobody has really stepped up and solidified themselves as a lock Top 10 pick other than Dareus as far as 3-4 D-Line players go. Peterson and Prince meanwhile look like absolutely amazing prospects, Peterson especially IMO.

With prospects like Adrian Clayborn, Cameron Jordan, Allen Bailey, Nick Fairley, Cameron Heyward and several others, there still should be some very nice prospects at 3-4 DE available with our early second round pick if we don't feel any of them are worth our first rounder.

It's not as simple as saying "D-Line is our biggest weakness, therefore spend our first round pick there".

We do need to spend 2 of our first 4 picks on the D-Line or I'm going to murder everyone in the world though.

HILife
12-06-2010, 06:03 AM
Broncos can do so much better then 3-13. This team needs to aspire for more. With a little work they can go 2-14 or maybe even 1-15. Come on Josh I know you can find a way to do it this season, I'm cheering for you.

Kaylore
12-06-2010, 07:13 AM
It's not as simple as saying "D-Line is our biggest weakness, therefore spend our first round pick there".

We do need to spend 2 of our first 4 picks on the D-Line or I'm going to murder everyone in the world though.

This is a great point. People too often want a certain position targeted out of need. Too often that means reaching for someone and it seems whenever any team reaches in the draft, the person they draft is a bust. I'm having a hard to remembering when someone reached and it worked out, actually.

That said, you can't keep ignoring your areas of need completely. I'm someone who would rather go BPA regardless, but it is clear that if you don't at least try to address need, your weaknesses will not improve.

Drek
12-06-2010, 08:25 AM
No way we don't end up with at least 3-4 spots on defense with crappy players. Just can't fix 7-8 spots in one off season.

Seriously it's that bad on defense.

I don't think we're that bad across the board defensively.

A review.

Safety:
Dawkins has gotten slapped down this year by father time and Hill hasn't been great, but still solid. McBath has been hurt too often to know much, but Bruton has been a pretty respectable sub and might have potential to start long term.

Corner:
Champ is still a top 10 player at his position. Goodman is a solid but not impressive #2, which works because come 2011 Cox is probably taking his job. Thompson and Vaughn are some nice young prospects to have battling for nickel and dime work.

OLB:
Whole different team if we have Doom and Ayers healthy all season. Hunter is not starter quality but he'd be a real good backup. Being able to make Haggan into the backup OLB/ILB swing guy would also do wonders for the LB play as a whole.

ILB:
DJ gets washed out in traffic, but this is the DL's job to stop. He's good in coverage and has been making some big plays. Joe Mays looks like the real deal as a two down ILB thumper.

Then we get to DL, where we've got one solid player (Bannan) and then trash. Absolute trash. And as a result we see OTs and OGs double teaming Ayers when he's freshly returning from a broken foot, OGs and Cs getting free shots on DJ to open running lanes, etc..

This team really could do a complete 180 with something approaching good DL play. A single impact DL with one or two solid starter types layered in with Bannan, pushing guys like Vickerson to the full time rotational/bench role and not starting. You do that and the OLBs get more pass rush, the ILBs stuff the run better, and the secondary isn't asked to cover everyone for 5 seconds while at the same time keeping an eye on run contain.

Trade back/forward as needed to get impact NT and DE types out of the first two rounds, pony up real money to get a legit FA signing or two in house. Watch this defense magically transform before your eyes.

Br0nc0Buster
12-06-2010, 08:31 AM
screw losing, I hope we win out
plenty of quality 3-4 ends in this draft to pick from

with the exception of Dareous we should have our pick of the litter and wont have to pick in the top 10 for that

briane
12-06-2010, 08:35 AM
It makes me sick that I am rooting for a draft pick...that just sucks.
:thumbsdow

DrFate
12-06-2010, 08:41 AM
I don't think we're that bad across the board defensively.

Except for being tied for 29th in points allowed

and 31st in rushing yards allowed

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/totalPoints/position/defense

Mile High Shack
12-06-2010, 08:50 AM
I don't want to lose to AZ just to get a better draft pick, sorry, I can't root for that

BroncoInferno
12-06-2010, 09:22 AM
I want Da'Quan Bowers. I know we have Dumervil coming back and Ayers at the other outside LB spot (or the other end spot if we bring in a 4-3 coach), but he is a special player and we can find a way use them all. Ayers can slide inside in nickle/dime packages as he played some DT in college. Getting Doom back and adding Da'Quan to the mix would revitalize our pass rush overnight.

Drek
12-06-2010, 10:00 AM
Except for being tied for 29th in points allowed

and 31st in rushing yards allowed

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/totalPoints/position/defense

And?

Our best defensive player has been out all season, our former 1st round pick OLB who was coming on strong in his shoes missed nearly the entire middle half of the year and is just getting back. Our DC is in his first year at that level and has shown obvious growing pains. Much of our secondary has had to deal with injuries.

All of that plus an offense that generally can only score on big plays (i.e. no clock control) and a DL who can't do their jobs and you've got a recipe for failure.

I'm not saying we'll be Steelers West given some better DL play, but we can effect a pretty dramatic turnaround if we get superior replacements to 3 or 4 guys.

Slade
12-06-2010, 10:04 AM
Fairley

RaiderH8r
12-06-2010, 10:23 AM
I want Haloti Ngata, well, not literally Ngata...well I'd take him but in the draft I'd like to find somebody in that mold. He blows up off the ball, he's agile, strong and smart and has a really kickass name. I'll admit on a list of 10 important characteristics for a football player name comes in 100th.

Our LB corps, while not ideal, is serviceable and not where the best value might be placed. I think, if the picks are right and without reaching, nailing down an interior DL that can start right away is a better use of our 1st rounder right now. If that means trading down then all the better. Joe Mays struggles in coverage but man he blows up holes. He plays hard and fast and I like it. We can help him out in coverage. Ayers is serviceable and Doom is coming back and Haggan can get the job done. We need a DL that can use up blockers or if teams go BOB on him can blow up the play and make the tackle. Make OCs decide whether they want to risk a blow up or commit blockers to him. Knowing that OCs have to commit blockers to one player on any given down helps make our DCs job easier in terms of deciding where and how to bring a LBer or in blitz packages.

Rock Chalk
12-06-2010, 10:27 AM
Except for being tied for 29th in points allowed

and 31st in rushing yards allowed

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/totalPoints/position/defense

Getting D-line help helps out everyone else on the Defense. If you would have read his post you'd understand what he meant. Instead of just reading the first line.

Smiling Assassin27
12-06-2010, 10:28 AM
Good grief Cincy has won only two games?!?

Come on, all those other teams. Pull one out!!!!

I really hope we can get into the top five.

No kidding. We need an elite punter...BAD.


:clown:

misturanderson
12-06-2010, 10:34 AM
Except for being tied for 29th in points allowed

and 31st in rushing yards allowed

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/totalPoints/position/defense

The points allowed is inexcuseable, but our rush defense is only that bad because we're always playing from behind. The average per rush is below average, but higher than the yards per game by a fair margin. I think that it's pretty obvious that our pass D is the real weakness of this team this year (31st in yards per attempt), especially recently. That is mostly a result of no pass rush (only cinci is worse) and a bunch of blown coverages (partially as a result of no pass rush).

That being said, we need a lot of new talent in the DL (currently manned by over-the-hill and depth players) and DB (who knows if Champ will be back, Dawkins is done, none of the other safeties are reliable), both of which should have a positive effect on the pass defense and run defense.

Rohirrim
12-06-2010, 10:38 AM
My two favorites right now are Paea and Clayborn. Paea brings that Polynesian connection this team has been sorely lacking (;D) and can really control the line of scrimmage. Clayborn is a lot like Doom. Very disruptive. High energy. It would depend on whether or not he can beef up and take over a DE spot. Not sure at this point, but his energy combined with Doom and Ayers (with Mays up the middle) would be a nightmare for offenses to deal with.

Chris
12-06-2010, 10:40 AM
My two favorites right now are Paea and Clayborn. Paea brings that Polynesian connection this team has been sorely lacking (;D) and can really control the line of scrimmage. Clayborn is a lot like Doom. Very disruptive. High energy. It would depend on whether or not he can beef up and take over a DE spot. Not sure at this point, but his energy combined with Doom and Ayers (with Mays up the middle) would be a nightmare for offenses to deal with.

Where are they projected to go?

Rohirrim
12-06-2010, 10:45 AM
Where are they projected to go?

Top ten.

DrFate
12-06-2010, 10:47 AM
Getting D-line help helps out everyone else on the Defense. If you would have read his post you'd understand what he meant. Instead of just reading the first line.

No no, I read his post. It was the assessment I found fault with.

I'm also not a big fan of 'boo hoo, we've had injuries' argument. Everybody has injuries. The Colts have had at least as many injuries as the Broncos (on both sides of the ball) - they aren't in 4th place in their division.

misturanderson
12-06-2010, 10:52 AM
No no, I read his post. It was the assessment I found fault with.

I'm also not a big fan of 'boo hoo, we've had injuries' argument. Everybody has injuries. The Colts have had at least as many injuries as the Broncos (on both sides of the ball) - they aren't in 4th place in their division.

No, they just went from a likely 16-0 team if they played their starters all year last year to a 6-6 team who are only out of their division cellar by 1 game right now.

Our team was 8-8 last year, you do the math from there.

Hell, by those standards we're doing well to have won more than 2 games this year.

IndianaBronco
12-06-2010, 10:56 AM
Drafting as high as we'll be this year, I question whether they'll keep the pick. I can see Mcd trading the 3rd or 4th pick overall for another 1st plus a bunch of dross, but if we do keep it, there's no question it has to be a front 7 defensive player, preferably a down lineman.

There will probably be a rookie wage scale, so money won't be an issue. The early picks will go back to being very valuable this year.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2010, 11:05 AM
There will probably be a rookie wage scale, so money won't be an issue. The early picks will go back to being very valuable this year.

Only if the right underclassmen declare.

BroncoInferno
12-06-2010, 01:07 PM
No no, I read his post. It was the assessment I found fault with.

I'm also not a big fan of 'boo hoo, we've had injuries' argument. Everybody has injuries. The Colts have had at least as many injuries as the Broncos (on both sides of the ball) - they aren't in 4th place in their division.

Yes, but the Colts have had the same offensive and defensive systems in place for years. What that means is that they have been able to draft and sign quality depth specific to their system needs. Teams that are able to overcome catstrophic injuries ARE teams like the Colts, Steeler, Ravens etc because of the continuity in place. We simply haven't had time in two seasons to build that kind of system specific depth needed to overcome injuries. Hell, there hasn't realy been time to get all the starters needed ni place given the trash Shanny left us on D.

oubronco
12-06-2010, 01:14 PM
I want some big nasty mean muffafuggan D-linemen and some big fast hard hitting LB's in this draft and i really don't care how they get it done just get it done

Rohirrim
12-06-2010, 01:17 PM
I want some big nasty mean muffafuggan D-linemen and some big fast hard hitting LB's in this draft and i really don't care how they get it done just get it done

One of the things I like about Paea is a few scouting reports have used the words "ridiculously strong." I like that in a NT. Plus, he grew up playing rugby on Tonga. That's gotta count for something. ;D

oubronco
12-06-2010, 01:18 PM
One of the things I like about Paea is a few scouting reports have used the words "ridiculously strong." I like that in a NT. Plus, he grew up playing rugby on Tonga. That's gotta count for something. ;D

Sounds good to me i'm just sick of seeing our defense get pushed around like rag dolls

bendog
12-06-2010, 01:18 PM
Yes, but the Colts have had the same offensive and defensive systems in place for years. What that means is that they have been able to draft and sign quality depth specific to their system needs. Teams that are able to overcome catstrophic injuries ARE teams like the Colts, Steeler, Ravens etc because of the continuity in place. We simply haven't had time in two seasons to build that kind of system specific depth needed to overcome injuries. Hell, there hasn't realy been time to get all the starters needed ni place given the trash Shanny left us on D.

Wait, I thought "josh" brought in all new players!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-06-2010, 01:24 PM
No way we don't end up with at least 3-4 spots on defense with crappy players. Just can't fix 7-8 spots in one off season.

Seriously it's that bad on defense.

Yep, it's that bad. However, I will point out that the MVP of our defense last year didn't play a down this season. That's one spot, and one pretty important spot; one where the rest of the defense feeds off those double teams.

With a few high picks and the return of Elvis Dumervil, this defense can take significant strides in one off season.

JMHO

bendog
12-06-2010, 01:28 PM
Yep, it's that bad. However, I will point out that the MVP of our defense last year didn't play a down this season. That's one spot, and one pretty important spot; one where the rest of the defense feeds off those double teams.

With a few high picks and the return of Elvis Dumervil, this defense can take significant strides in one off season.

JMHO

you do realize that this is an awful senior class and undergrads aren't coming out unless there's a cba?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-06-2010, 01:39 PM
you do realize that this is an awful senior class and undergrads aren't coming out unless there's a cba?

Sure do.

You do realize that none of that changes our needs and how we can effectively address them?

You're talking about something which the team has no control over. I'm talking about something which the team DOES have control over. See the difference?

bendog
12-06-2010, 01:41 PM
Sure do.

You do realize that none of that changes our needs and how we can effectively address them?

You're talking about something which the team has no control over. I'm talking about something which the team DOES have control over. See the difference?

It does affect the sanity of your post about "a couple of high picks" fixing the defense.

DrFate
12-06-2010, 01:43 PM
Hell, there hasn't realy been time to get all the starters needed ni place given the trash Shanny left us on D.

So now we are back to the 'blame Shanahan' theme...

Gotcha

eddie mac
12-06-2010, 01:44 PM
Here's a question I'm stumped on. If there's a lockout for the entire season and the NFL resumes in 2012. Do teams retain the same draft slots 2 years running?

If it is it does mean Denver get 2 top 6 picks in consecutive years if they retain their current position.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-06-2010, 01:44 PM
So now we are back to the 'blame Shanahan' theme...

Gotcha

Nooooooo, of course not. Shanahan left a full cupboard on defense. There was never a problem with that side of the ball when Shanahan was here.

Gotcha.

DrFate
12-06-2010, 01:47 PM
Nooooooo, of course not. Shanahan left a full cupboard on defense. There was never a problem with that side of the ball when Shanahan was here.

Gotcha.

Shanahan's latest defenses were quite poor. (not 3 win poor, but poor)

Which is why it's curious the new regime drafted (in order) a RB, a WR, and QB with first round picks in the last two drafts...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-06-2010, 01:52 PM
Shanahan's latest defenses were quite poor. (not 3 win poor, but poor)

Which is why it's curious the new regime drafted (in order) a RB, a WR, and QB with first round picks in the last two drafts...

WHY WOUDL YOU SAY SUCH AWFUL THINGS ABOUT SHANAHAN!?!?!

You're just in blame Shanahan mode.

(See? Those defenses ARE relevant to the current discussion. And yes, Shanahan does share part of the blame. Sorry if that hurts your delicate feelings.)

As for the drafts since then, yeah, we haven't gone after players on that side of the ball. My theory is that McDaniels wanted to get his offense in place first, since that's the side of the ball he's most familiar with and that's the side of the ball where he'd be held most accountable. Now that his offense is approaching where he wants it to be, my guess is that he'll focus on defense starting this year.

However, it's not like we just avoided the defense all together. Our free agency periods have been all about D. And honestly, if we don't lose Elvis in the preseason, I think guys like Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan and the like are more effective this season.

And yes, I think with Elvis this is better than a 3 win defense. Call me crazy that I think the NFL's leading sacker would make a difference.

bendog
12-06-2010, 01:53 PM
Here's a question I'm stumped on. If there's a lockout for the entire season and the NFL resumes in 2012. Do teams retain the same draft slots 2 years running?

If it is it does mean Denver get 2 top 6 picks in consecutive years if they retain their current position.

now that's an interesting question. I haven't even considered whether the 2011 season will be completely cancelled, and I really don't think it will be because the players will cave at some pt. Right now I'm not sure the owners have an agreeement amongst themselves with what they have to have, becuae low revenue teams have a different set of needs than high revenue teams (like Den). But I assume you are right. However, the only reason we have a draft is that the union agrees to it. If the union drops the nuke and decertifies, then the owners can draft all they want, but legally everyone's a free agent unless they have a contract already.

The postive, if it's a positive, is that Den really is such a ****ty defense that it will take a total rebuild that should have commenced two years ago, but for a certain coach having to prove he's a genius who can make Tebow great despite 75% of other coaches disagreeing. But, 2012's draft should be loaded with talent.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16772187

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-06-2010, 01:58 PM
now that's an interesting question. I haven't even considered whether the 2011 season will be completely cancelled, and I really don't think it will be because the players will cave at some pt. Right now I'm not sure the owners have an agreeement amongst themselves with what they have to have, becuae low revenue teams have a different set of needs than high revenue teams (like Den). But I assume you are right. However, the only reason we have a draft is that the union agrees to it. If the union drops the nuke and decertifies, then the owners can draft all they want, but legally everyone's a free agent unless they have a contract already.

The postive, if it's a positive, is that Den really is such a ****ty defense that it will take a total rebuild that should have commenced two years ago, but for a certain coach having to prove he's a genius who can make Tebow great despite 75% of other coaches disagreeing. But, 2012's draft should be loaded with talent.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16772187

But not earlier than 2 years ago. Because that would be blaming Shanahan for putting together awful defenses, and we certainly can't give blame where it's due.

DrFate
12-06-2010, 02:00 PM
Now that his offense is approaching where he wants it to be, my guess is that he'll focus on defense starting this year.

29th in the league in rushing, 19th in points, and a QB who puts up MONSTER numbers against the prevent defense when the game is out of reach. A juggernaught, to be sure.

And yes, I think with Elvis this is better than a 3 win defense. Call me crazy that I think the NFL's leading sacker would make a difference.

Dummerville's injury hurt. No doubt. I don't think you are crazy. You have some misguided belief in the current front office and on-field staff. But not crazy...

DrFate
12-06-2010, 02:04 PM
Let me ask you this MooseGuy - straight out - do you think this franchise is in better shape than the day McDaniels was hired?

And if so, why?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-06-2010, 02:05 PM
29th in the league in rushing, 19th in points, and a QB who puts up MONSTER numbers against the prevent defense when the game is out of reach. A juggernaught, to be sure.



Dummerville's injury hurt. No doubt. I don't think you are crazy. You have some misguided belief in the current front office and on-field staff. But not crazy...

It's juggernaut, by the way. Just sayin'.

And I know, the offense doesn't look great. He put the pieces in place, and we have yet to see them put all phases of the game together (with the first KC game being an exception). However, we're still pretty young at some key positions (OL, RB). Another off season, another training camp, and I fully expect the offense to be much, much better.

It's not a misguided belief. It's looking at a bigger picture.

We lost our defensive MVP. Our defensive numbers are bad. Correlation? Probably.

We're starting two rookies on the OL. Our running game hasn't worked for most of the season, until now (when those young players have started playing well, and playing together). Correlation? Probably.

Look, I'm not any happier with the result of this season than you are. But I also see some key pieces in place on this offense that could make us very very good offensively next season. I also see the return of Elvis, a healthy Ayers, and some additional pieces (specifically at NT and MLB) we can get in the draft that could make this a respectable defense in a matter of one off season, not several.

Just two different ways to look at the same coin. /shrug It happens.

bendog
12-06-2010, 02:06 PM
It's juggernaut, by the way. Just sayin'.

And I know, the offense doesn't look great. He put the pieces in place, and we have yet to see them put all phases of the game together (with the first KC game being an exception). However, we're still pretty young at some key positions (OL, RB). Another off season, another training camp, and I fully expect the offense to be much, much better.

It's not a misguided belief. It's looking at a bigger picture.

We lost our defensive MVP. Our defensive numbers are bad. Correlation? Probably.

We're starting two rookies on the OL. Our running game hasn't worked for most of the season, until now (when those young players have started playing well, and playing together). Correlation? Probably.

Look, I'm not any happier with the result of this season than you are. But I also see some key pieces in place on this offense that could make us very very good offensively next season. I also see the return of Elvis, a healthy Ayers, and some additional pieces (specifically at NT and MLB) we can get in the draft that could make this a respectable defense in a matter of one off season, not several.

Just two different ways to look at the same coin. /shrug It happens.

Took a pass on that there, sport.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-06-2010, 02:10 PM
Let me ask you this MooseGuy - straight out - do you think this franchise is in better shape than the day McDaniels was hired?

And if so, why?

Sort of a ridiculous question. In some ways, yes. In others, no.

It's just sort of a nebulous question. As we've seen with teams who have a losing season followed by a winning season, it can all change so quickly.

I think there are more solid building blocks in place now than we had in the Shanahan years. Young, talented OL (that's finally starting to play well together) is among the things that I think are in better shape, long term, than what we had prior to McDaniels' arrival.

I think we have some solid pieces to build on in the defense. Elvis. Ayers. Mays. Cox. McBath (if he ever sees the mother****ing field).

We're building a starting lineup AND depth, and we've been hampered by injuries. During the shanahan era, we completely neglected the depth issue on this team.

Again, it's just how I view the team.

As for the losing, I think we needed this as a fanbase. Look around these forums, and guys think its a right to be a winning franchise because we're Broncos fans. It doesn't work that way.

Sometimes being humbled is a good thing. Builds character. Frankly, there are a lot of folks on this board that need to build some character.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-06-2010, 02:11 PM
Took a pass on that there, sport.

Uh. What?

Did you have a comment about the content? Or just a smarmy remark that doesn't make sense?

Run along and play, junior.

DrFate
12-06-2010, 02:12 PM
It's juggernaut, by the way. Just sayin'.

LOL - point


We're starting two rookies on the OL. Our running game hasn't worked for most of the season, until now (when those young players have started playing well, and playing together). Correlation? Probably.

That's one thing that bothers me that doesn't get much attention, even on this board. From my memory (which may be wrong) when Shanny was fired in 08, the OLine was considered a STRENGTH of the team. In fact, it was considered one of the league's best (Harris was on some all pro teams, Clady was considered by some the best at his position, and the interior was solid)

After McDaniels put his 'plan' into place, the OLine is seen as a 'needs improvement' area.

Do I remember incorrectly?

DrFate
12-06-2010, 02:15 PM
Sort of a ridiculous question. .

It's a pretty straight-forward question...


Young, talented OL (that's finally starting to play well together) is among the things that I think are in better shape, long term, than what we had prior to McDaniels' arrival.

Please see my previous post re: the OLine

EDIT: "The Broncos offensive line usually does not get as much credit as it deserves but there should not be any doubts that they were the best in the NFL in 2008. They allowed the fewest number of sacks with only 12 despite attempting 620 passes and also tied for second in the NFL with an average of 4.8 yards per carry. "

http://www.ultimateffstrategy.com/2009_OLine/denver_broncos.htm

(yes, it's a random website, but I didn't make up the fact that the line was solid)

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-06-2010, 02:16 PM
That's one thing that bothers me that doesn't get much attention, even on this board. From my memory (which may be wrong) when Shanny was fired in 08, the OLine was considered a STRENGTH of the team. In fact, it was considered one of the league's best (Harris was on some all pro teams, Clady was considered by some the best at his position, and the interior was solid)

After McDaniels put his 'plan' into place, the OLine is seen as a 'needs improvement' area.

Do I remember incorrectly?

You remember correctly. And you probably also remember that McDaniels is a different coach than Shanahan, with different priorities and different schemes to run. You probably also remember that Shanahan was fired, and that the person who replaced him was unlikely to keep the exact same schemes in place that had been there prior to his arrival.

Hiring someone new, with new ideas, and telling him to run the same offensive system that was there before he got there... I mean, does that happen ANYWHERE, in any business? I'd say no.

One guy was fired because his way wasn't working anymore. New guy was hired to bring his systems and his strategies. And we expect everything to remain exactly the same, only with more wins. That's absurd.

bendog
12-06-2010, 02:18 PM
LOL - point




That's one thing that bothers me that doesn't get much attention, even on this board. From my memory (which may be wrong) when Shanny was fired in 08, the OLine was considered a STRENGTH of the team. In fact, it was considered one of the league's best (Harris was on some all pro teams, Clady was considered by some the best at his position, and the interior was solid)

After McDaniels put his 'plan' into place, the OLine is seen as a 'needs improvement' area.

Do I remember incorrectly?

A little bit. In the 07 offseason we didn't match Hou's offer for Chris Myers because it was assumed Nalen and Hamilton would be healthy, so we ended up with Weigman, and really couldn't run inside very well. A bad year for Shanny in terms of rushingattack. (of course it beat to **** the crap McD put out). It's just that Den needed two offensive linemen in 09 and McD whiffed. But aside from that, teh offense that shanny left was inarguably better than this offense. It ran better and scored better.

DrFate
12-06-2010, 02:21 PM
Hiring someone new, with new ideas, and telling him to run the same offensive system that was there before he got there... I mean, does that happen ANYWHERE, in any business? I'd say no.

In what other scenario do you hire a new manager - who then fires the entire company? Please don't compare the NFL wackiness to any other real-world business. It simply doesn't apply...


One guy was fired because his way wasn't working anymore.

I'd argue they worked at least as well the new guy... But you don't. <shrug>

You have a team with a productive offense and a flimsy defense - you hire a new guy - and his first move is to blow up the offense. And the defense gets worse. Maybe this 'new system' isn't all it's cracked up to be?

Kaylore
12-06-2010, 02:30 PM
LOL - point




That's one thing that bothers me that doesn't get much attention, even on this board. From my memory (which may be wrong) when Shanny was fired in 08, the OLine was considered a STRENGTH of the team. In fact, it was considered one of the league's best (Harris was on some all pro teams, Clady was considered by some the best at his position, and the interior was solid)

After McDaniels put his 'plan' into place, the OLine is seen as a 'needs improvement' area.

Do I remember incorrectly?
No. The tackles played better and Jay's mobility hid a lot of problems. However the following year Wiegman and Hamilton were terrible and couldn't handle a bull rush. They were both let go and then Harris is always injured and fat-basketball happened to Clady. Then we had two rookies inside, or rather all over the place depending on the day, and Clady wasn't 100%. They're all getting better but next year they'll be pretty good again.

bendog
12-06-2010, 02:35 PM
No. The tackles played better and Jay's mobility hid a lot of problems. However the following year Wiegman and Hamilton were terrible and couldn't handle a bull rush. They were both let go and then Harris is always injured and fat-basketball happened to Clady. Then we had two rookies inside, or rather all over the place depending on the day, and Clady wasn't 100%. They're all getting better but next year they'll be pretty good again.

I'm not sold on Harris, and never have been. If Beadles can play rt, fine, but imo they're still one short. If Den can get an impact player on defense in the first, and I'm not sure they can get one who fits a 3-4, and having Ayers pretty much requires they keep the 3-4, and find another olineman, that might be pretty much it for this draft. They'll be picking guys who typically would go at 20 and later before the top ten picks are gone

BroncoInferno
12-06-2010, 02:55 PM
So now we are back to the 'blame Shanahan' theme...

Gotcha

Thanks for skipping the rest of my post. I'll take that to mean you have no argument to points about building quality depth that allows teams to overcome a rash of injuries. And, yes, it is Shanny's fault that he left mostly garbage on defense when he left. Do you depute that? Only three of the starters he left were worth a damn.

bendog
12-06-2010, 03:09 PM
Thanks for skipping the rest of my post. I'll take that to mean you have no argument to points about building quality depth that allows teams to overcome a rash of injuries. And, yes, it is Shanny's fault that he left mostly garbage on defense when he left. Do you depute that? Only three of the starters he left were worth a damn.

And McD certainly used his picks wisely to restock.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-12-2010, 01:38 PM
If the current scores hold

Buf (W)
Det (W)
Cincy (L)

A Denver loss would move them up to 3rd Overall.

Smilin Assassin
12-12-2010, 01:44 PM
Personally, I'd rather root against Miami in hopes of a higher 2nd round pick we have from them.

snowspot66
12-12-2010, 01:58 PM
Thank God we play both western divisions. Our weak strength of schedule will give us every tie breaker.

Clockwork Orange
12-12-2010, 02:12 PM
And McD certainly used his picks wisely to restock.

How was he supposed to do that!?! He only had 8 picks in the first 2 rounds of the last 2 drafts to work with!

Bronc62
12-12-2010, 04:40 PM
If the current scores hold

Buf (W)
Det (W)
Cincy (L)

A Denver loss would move them up to 3rd Overall.

Well, looking like we'll be adding.. Den (L)..to the list, and the Great Blue North Draft site does verify we'll be up to #3 pick...

December 12
(4:00 PM): Wins by Lions, Bills shake up draft order ... Wins by Detroit, which won its first NFC North division game since 2007 with a 7-3 upset win over Green Bay, which played the better part of three quarters without starting QB Aaron Rodgers, and Buffalo, which won the battle of Lake Erie 13-6 over Cleveland, reshuffled the top 5 picks in the selection order of the 2011 draft. Carolina, which lost to Atlanta, would still have the #1 pick were the draft held today, however, a loss to Pittsburgh moves Cincinnati up into the #2 slot, while the loser of the late afternoon game between Denver and Arizona would pick 3rd, while Detroit would drop to 4th and Buffalo to 5th. We'll have the full, updated first-round selecion order for the 2011 draft after tomorrow night's Monday night games.

oubronco
12-12-2010, 04:41 PM
YEA!!!!!!!












Not

Cmac821
12-12-2010, 04:42 PM
Is this bad or good? lol

snowspot66
12-12-2010, 04:42 PM
Never thought I'd see us picking before Detroit in the first round.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-12-2010, 04:45 PM
Cincy is home against Cleveland next week, so hopefully they can get their 3rd win too.

bpc
12-12-2010, 04:48 PM
this team will finish 3-13. We'll have the 2nd or 3rd pick.

rbackfactory80
12-12-2010, 04:49 PM
Carolina has 1 lucked up.

Bronc62
12-12-2010, 05:03 PM
...it raises some interesting possibilities about a Andrew Luck/Jim Harbaugh coming to Denver (especially with Stanford guy Elway in front office). Latest news is that Luck may stay at Stanford another year...as long as Harbaugh doesn't leave. Harbaugh may not want to be the next head coach at Carolina...but Denver..if Luck comes with him..who knows?

bpc
12-12-2010, 05:12 PM
Most likely they're going to have a rookie cap negotiated into the next CBA. If that is even remotely possible, Luck stands to lose MILLIONS right off the bat if he goes back to school. He's going to Stanford because he's smart, I DOUBT anybody close to him would allow that to happen especially when considering what happened to Locker from his junior season to this year. He's lost millions just based on injury and poor play.

Lev Vyvanse
12-12-2010, 05:31 PM
Most likely they're going to have a rookie cap negotiated into the next CBA. If that is even remotely possible, Luck stands to lose MILLIONS right off the bat if he goes back to school. He's going to Stanford because he's smart, I DOUBT anybody close to him would allow that to happen especially when considering what happened to Locker from his junior season to this year. He's lost millions just based on injury and poor play.

CBA ends in March. No drafted player will be able to sign until a new deal is in place. He already lost his chance at mega rookie money.

snowspot66
12-12-2010, 05:33 PM
CBA ends in March. No drafted player will be able to sign until a new deal is in place. He already lost his chance at mega rookie money.

Well, they may attempt to force the owners to allow one more big pay day. They won't give it up for free.

Lev Vyvanse
12-12-2010, 05:36 PM
Well, they may attempt to force the owners to allow one more big pay day. They won't give it up for free.

The guys in the player association don't even like it. They won't give it up, they will negotiate it into their own pocket.

snowspot66
12-12-2010, 05:38 PM
The guys in the player association don't even like it. They won't give it up, they will negotiate it into their own pocket.

The players hate it but the union leaders seem to love it.

Lev Vyvanse
12-12-2010, 05:41 PM
The players hate it but the union leaders seem to love it.

That's part of negotiating.

snowspot66
12-12-2010, 05:43 PM
That's part of negotiating.

I think they'll try to get one more payday for the rookies in exchange for something the owners really want. We all know the pay scale is going to happen so they'll try to suck up every dollar they can. Just have to see how it works out.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-12-2010, 05:43 PM
It was pre-2010 draft, but Mort and Schefter were both saying a rookie wage scale couldn't be implemented until 2012 at the earliest, even with the lack of a CBA this year.

Jesterhole
12-12-2010, 05:44 PM
Did we even want to pick in the top 3? At this point we need to trade down in every round, get more picks, and just take the BAP at every position. Sad.

snowspot66
12-12-2010, 05:45 PM
Did we even want to pick in the top 3? At this point we need to trade down in every round, get more picks, and just take the BAP at every position. Sad.

Well, as a supporter of Tebow, if Luck is there we have to take him. Buffalo would give us a second for Tebow I'm sure if we wanted to trade him.

Lev Vyvanse
12-12-2010, 05:47 PM
It was pre-2010 draft, but Mort and Schefter were both saying a rookie wage scale couldn't be implemented until 2012 at the earliest, even with the lack of a CBA this year.

I don't now how that would be possible. After the CBA expires there is no agreement between the two sides.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-12-2010, 05:48 PM
Well, as a supporter of Tebow, if Luck is there we have to take him. Buffalo would give us a second for Tebow I'm sure if we wanted to trade him.

If Luck stays in, trade Orton and go with Tebow next year. Either TT proves he can be the guy or they'll be in a spot to take Luck.

snowspot66
12-12-2010, 05:48 PM
I don't now how that would be possible. After the CBA expires there is no agreement between the two sides.

There might be other contingencies that go into effect upon the cancellation of the CBA.

snowspot66
12-12-2010, 05:49 PM
If Luck stays in, trade Orton and go with Tebow next year. Either TT proves he can be the guy or they'll be in a spot to take Luck.

I agree.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-12-2010, 05:49 PM
I don't now how that would be possible. After the CBA expires there is no agreement between the two sides.

Not unless the last CBA agreement covers the 2012 draft.

Jesterhole
12-12-2010, 05:51 PM
If Luck stays in, trade Orton and go with Tebow next year. Either TT proves he can be the guy or they'll be in a spot to take Luck.

We'll never be able to know what Tim can do as long as our moronic interim head coach keeps Orton in.

cutthemdown
12-12-2010, 05:55 PM
Did we even want to pick in the top 3? At this point we need to trade down in every round, get more picks, and just take the BAP at every position. Sad.

well if you want to trade down the higher the better right?

cutthemdown
12-12-2010, 05:57 PM
It's always better to pick first. Anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy. The higher Broncos go the better. Good news is Broncos could use a number of positions. Well let's face all but about 3 or 4.

razorwire77
12-12-2010, 05:58 PM
If the stars line up and Luck is there when we pick you have to take him. Get a 2nd for Timmy from Buffalo, Jax, Minnesota etc.

doonwise
12-12-2010, 05:59 PM
Billion Dollar Idea:

What about trading this year's 1st round pick (2nd or 3rd overall) to some sucker team for their last year's 2nd round pick?? BAM!!

Before you all bombard me with compliments, do know that I have had formal training: I am currently enrolled as a student of McDaniel's / Xanders University of Draftology.

OBF1
12-12-2010, 06:00 PM
Did we even want to pick in the top 3? At this point we need to trade down in every round, get more picks, and just take the BAP at every position. Sad.

Stop with the more picks bull sh it already. We need impact players only and they are taken first in the draft in most cases. trading down for trading down sake gets you the sh it team we now have.

oubronco
12-12-2010, 06:01 PM
Stop with the more picks bull sh it already. We need impact players only and they are taken first in the draft in most cases. trading down for trading down sake gets you the sh it team we now have.

Exactly I want talent on this team

OBF1
12-12-2010, 06:02 PM
If the stars line up and Luck is there when we pick you have to take him. Get a 2nd for Timmy from Buffalo, Jax, Minnesota etc.

If Luck comes out, he will be the #1 pick period.

snowspot66
12-12-2010, 06:05 PM
If Luck comes out, he will be the #1 pick period.

Well, the only two teams ahead of us right now are the Panthers and Bengals. The Panthers put a mid to high 2nd into Clausen and the Bengals have Palmer. The Bengals might also **** up and beat the Browns next week giving us the #2.

It is definitely plausible at this point in time we could have a shot at him.

Clockwork Orange
12-12-2010, 06:06 PM
I don't want to trade down. Use the 1st rounder and get a difference maker, a true elite level prospect.

Get us the biggest, baddest pass rusher in the draft to team up with Elvis next season and I'll feel better about our situation going forward.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-12-2010, 06:16 PM
To update, they are now in the 3rd spot and this was probably their last winnable game of the season.

As was the case last week, 3-13 is still the worst they can do and the teams that were 3-13 over the past 5 seasons picked 2nd (twice) and 3rd overall.

The best record they can now have is 6-10. Over the past 5 seasons, the lowest 6-10 has picked has been #14 and the highest has been #7.

There are 16 teams that already have 7 wins, 3 teams have 6 wins, and both Houton and Minnesota can get to 6 wins with wins tomorrow night.

Carolina is home against Arizona next week, and Cincy is home against Cleveland.

Rohirrim
12-12-2010, 06:23 PM
They way the Broncos' luck has been going, they'll end up with the #1 pick and Luck will stay in school.

doonwise
12-12-2010, 06:23 PM
Billion Dollar Idea:

What about trading this year's 1st round pick (2nd or 3rd overall) to some sucker team for their last year's 2nd round pick?? BAM!!

Before you all bombard me with compliments, do know that I have had formal training: I am currently enrolled as a student of McDaniel's / Xanders University of Draftology.

I'm not surprised that this amazing idea flew over everyone's head. That's the problem with having so many low-brow folk able to use a keyboard and post online

*Doonwise struts about with his Belichickian arrogance*

Requiem
12-12-2010, 06:27 PM
Doonwise you wreckless like Gengis Khan.

Denver724
12-12-2010, 06:27 PM
They way the Broncos' luck has been going, they'll end up with the #1 pick and Luck will stay in school.

Carolina may beat AZ at home, but there is no way they beat the Steelers and Falcons. They will have the 1st pick with, at the most, 2 wins.

doonwise
12-12-2010, 06:31 PM
Doonwise you wreckless like Gengis Khan.

Ah a fan! I don't respect fans, pundits or haters. They just aren't as important to me as my ego.

*Doonwise dances a McDanielsian Jig*

cutthemdown
12-12-2010, 09:29 PM
They way the Broncos' luck has been going, they'll end up with the #1 pick and Luck will stay in school.

That's ok we may get it again next year the way this team looks.

Beantown Bronco
12-12-2010, 09:31 PM
That's ok we may get it again next year the way this team looks.

or if the whole season is cancelled......I'm assuming.

MABroncoFan
12-12-2010, 09:38 PM
If we finished tied at 3-13 w/ the Bengals and Panthers, would we get the #1 pick?

cabronco
12-12-2010, 09:38 PM
They way the Broncos' luck has been going, they'll end up with the #1 pick and Luck will stay in school.

Send Elway over there to talk to Luck, tell him how great the franchise is, promise him the world with his fingers crossed and see what happens.

Beantown Bronco
12-12-2010, 09:43 PM
If we finished tied at 3-13 w/ the Bengals and Panthers, would we get the #1 pick?

It would depend on tiebreakers. If it came down to the strength of schedule tie-breaker, we'd most likely get the edge for the #1 pick as we play the two weakest conferences in the league (the AFC and NFC West).

TheProfessor
12-12-2010, 09:52 PM
Sadly, because of the uncertainty surrounding the CBA this could be a very weak draft.

Luckily we will probably have 3 of the top 45 or so, so hopefully that will help negate the lack of depth in the later rounds. Lets just hope the top 5 or so still come out.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-12-2010, 10:06 PM
If we finished tied at 3-13 w/ the Bengals and Panthers, would we get the #1 pick?

Going into this week

Carolina- .583
Cincy- .573
Denver- .516

That's 2nd, 3rd, and approx T11th.

That won't change much with 3 games to go.

snowspot66
12-12-2010, 10:26 PM
It would depend on tiebreakers. If it came down to the strength of schedule tie-breaker, we'd most likely get the edge for the #1 pick as we play the two weakest conferences in the league (the AFC and NFC West).

I believe strength of schedule is the first tie breaker in draft order and ours is definitely the lowest of the crappy teams we might tie with.

Bigdawg26
12-12-2010, 10:35 PM
Even if we did get a top 5 pick. I doubt Bowlen can afford it!

Tombstone RJ
12-12-2010, 10:36 PM
It's always better to pick first. Anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy. The higher Broncos go the better. Good news is Broncos could use a number of positions. Well let's face all but about 3 or 4.

no, it's not.

SoCalBronco
12-12-2010, 10:36 PM
No matter where it is, trade down and acquire more picks. There's alot of holes to be filled.

ZONA
12-12-2010, 11:20 PM
Forget drafting any QB's in the first round. We could keep Orton as Tebow's back up next year and he's only got 1 more year after that so it's a safe option to keeep him as a back up. Then we can dump him the following year and by then we would have had a full year to evaluate Tebow. But even with having high picks next draft, I don't think this team is going to be a winner next year with new HC and and scheme and all that. We'll probably have a mid to high pick in the following draft as well and then we could look at QB's in that draft, there should be more guys coming out.

Right now - it's all about getting this defense fixed.

wolf754life
12-12-2010, 11:20 PM
multiple drafts, multiple years, its going to be a looong time

Boss Man
12-12-2010, 11:40 PM
*** trading away a top pick for multiple picks.....that theory is all well and good when you have players to build around...but lets be real here, we dont.

We need an impact player, a game changer, someone who can make things happen on his own. Because we do not have that now. period.

cutthemdown
12-12-2010, 11:59 PM
no, it's not.

Higher picks worth more on the value chart. Just don't see how anyone could say it's better to have the 5th pick, then the 4th pick lol. You get more to choose from, you can trade down with more ammo.

Go ahead give some lame reason about money, salary cap BS.

How is it not better to be higher up not only in the first round, but also in all the other rounds?

Dagmar
12-13-2010, 12:03 AM
If we stay in the top 5 we need to take Fairley or trade down for a bunch of picks that are all focused on D.

ScottXray
12-13-2010, 12:07 AM
Higher picks worth more on the value chart. Just don't see how anyone could say it's better to have the 5th pick, then the 4th pick lol. You get more to choose from, you can trade down with more ammo.

Go ahead give some lame reason about money, salary cap BS.

How is it not better to be higher up not only in the first round, but also in all the other rounds?

Because right now ( until the CBA is settled) higher picks mean MUCHO dinero out the door for unproven players.
#1 comes with a very hefty contract, and top 5 aren't much better. There isn't a Suh in this draft on the Defensive side that is going to solidify the front absolutely for sure. Some really good players but not in that class.

QB is an unknown right now , other than Orton is not the answer and Quinn and Tebow are unknown quantities. Quinn has played and not shown much.
Tebow =??? all over.

Now we will have a new staff, and new scheme...maybe in ALL areas.

We Need so MANY things we have to get the Maximum number of players we can in hte draft.

Hell we aren't even a good expansion team right now.

Beantown Bronco
12-13-2010, 07:21 AM
Because right now ( until the CBA is settled) higher picks mean MUCHO dinero out the door for unproven players.
#1 comes with a very hefty contract, and top 5 aren't much better.

You are wrong. Anyone drafted this year cannot be signed until a new CBA is agreed to. That means that whatever they agree to for this upcoming draft will be the same for the next draft, and the next draft, etc. until THAT new CBA expires. If a new rookie payscale is agreed to, it will take effect in the 2011 draft, so we're covered.

driver
12-13-2010, 08:59 AM
We're going to be picking in the 3 slot. We won't win another game neither will the panthers or bengals. posted this 3 or 4 weeks back after looking at the schedules.
We need to draft the whole front 7. Not 1 player for the O. I'll explode if they take an offensive player in this draft.Lots of good dlinemen (not as good as SUH) but better then what we have now. Need dt's 1st. lb's 2nd, safeties at, least 2, we have to trade down, we don't have enough picks thanks to the Maroney and Quinn trades.

bendog
12-13-2010, 09:02 AM
Why would anyone trade down in a year that is supposedly the worst talent for seniors in recent history and the team has only one defensive starter competent to make an impact play on any down?

Hercules Rockefeller
12-19-2010, 01:28 PM
With all the early games in the 4th quarter

Carolina: Winning 19-3
Cincy: Winning 19-10
Denver: Still to play
Detroit: Tied 17-17
Buffalo: Winning 17-7
Arizona: Losing 19-3
Dallas: Winning 30-22

Really couldn't hope for much better for the Broncos.

If the current scores hold and they lose, they'll move to 2nd and have a weaker SOS than Carolina if the Panthers can somehow pull another one out this year.

If the current scores hold, they win and Detroit wins, they'll move from 3rd to 4th (Arizona goes to 3rd). If they win and Detroit loses, they'll drop to 5th.

Vegas_Bronco
12-19-2010, 01:43 PM
Need some veteran leaders in here on offense and fast. I would trade down and grab some good veterans that can lead this group of clowns. Id like to see some swagger on the field and some.accountability in the lockerroom...don't really care abt our record...id like to see some team effort again.

Ratboy
12-19-2010, 02:10 PM
With all the early games in the 4th quarter

Carolina: Winning 19-3
Cincy: Winning 19-10
Denver: Still to play
Detroit: Tied 17-17
Buffalo: Winning 17-7
Arizona: Losing 19-3
Dallas: Winning 30-22

Really couldn't hope for much better for the Broncos.

If the current scores hold and they lose, they'll move to 2nd and have a weaker SOS than Carolina if the Panthers can somehow pull another one out this year.

If the current scores hold, they win and Detroit wins, they'll move from 3rd to 4th (Arizona goes to 3rd). If they win and Detroit loses, they'll drop to 5th.


woot

This is fantastic news.

One step closer to getting the top spot in the draft!

nickademus
12-19-2010, 02:10 PM
So if the draft were to occur today we would have the #2 pick correct?

Broncojef
12-19-2010, 02:28 PM
Correct, we are in the 2 spot assuming we lose. The definitive call on how terrible we are is the worst team in the NFL (Carolina) today beat the team that dominated us (Cardinals) last week.

spdirty
12-19-2010, 03:01 PM
Correct, we are in the 2 spot assuming we lose. The definitive call on how terrible we are is the worst team in the NFL (Carolina) today beat the team that dominated us (Cardinals) last week.

We didn't play Tebow last week either.

TonyR
12-19-2010, 03:11 PM
Miami losing is also good for our extra 2nd round pick.

NFLBRONCO
12-19-2010, 05:26 PM
If we go

0-2 we have #2 pick

1-1 what pick are we looking at?

Broncojef
12-19-2010, 05:31 PM
We didn't play Tebow last week either.

With what I saw this week I think we can concentrate on the #1 defensive player DT/DE on the board and be confident having Tebow on the roster. Playing Tebow now is huge for our draft strategy and in knowing what we have. We may well have won last week with Tebow in.

Even if we go 1-1 and everyone else loses out I think we are guaranteed no less than the 3 slot now right?

Detroit 4 10 0
Buffalo 4 10 0
Arizona 4 10 0
Cincinnati 3 11 0
Denver 3 11 0
Carolina 2 12 0

HILife
12-19-2010, 05:41 PM
With what I saw this week I think we can concentrate on the #1 defensive player DT/DE on the board and be confident having Tebow on the roster. Playing Tebow now is huge for our draft strategy and in knowing what we have. We may well have won last week with Tebow in.

Even if we go 1-1 and everyone else loses out I think we are guaranteed no less than the 3 slot now right?

Detroit 4 10 0
Buffalo 4 10 0
Arizona 4 10 0
Cincinnati 3 11 0
Denver 3 11 0
Carolina 2 12 0

LETS GO CAROLINA!!!! Get those wins!!

I think it's to early to start saying we are fine with Tebow. I didn't see anything that told me he would be a good NFL QB. Did a few nice things, but mostly running the ball. The passing game looked a weak. Had a good one here and there, but overall weak.

Rulon Velvet Jones
12-19-2010, 05:44 PM
lets go carolina!!!! Get those wins!!

I think it's to early to start saying we are fine with tebow. I didn't see anything that told me he would be a good nfl qb. Did a few nice things, but mostly running the ball. The passing game looked a weak. Had a good one here and there, but overall weak.

lol

theAPAOps5
12-19-2010, 05:47 PM
LETS GO CAROLINA!!!! Get those wins!!

I think it's to early to start saying we are fine with Tebow. I didn't see anything that told me he would be a good NFL QB. Did a few nice things, but mostly running the ball. The passing game looked a weak. Had a good one here and there, but overall weak.

Not really good at this football thing are you? :angel:

He did a lot that made you think he could do well in the NFL.

atomicbloke
12-19-2010, 05:54 PM
What happens to the 2012 draft order if there is no season in 2011?

Do we keep the same pick?

misturanderson
12-19-2010, 05:57 PM
Not really good at this football thing are you? :angel:

He did a lot that made you think he could do well in the NFL.

No ****. I don't know what game the people hating on him were watching. He completely out-played my expectations. He needs to work on his touch on short passes and needs to get better at making reads, but that's true of pretty much every rookie QB that has ever been in the league.

serious hops
12-19-2010, 06:01 PM
No matter where it is, trade down and acquire more picks. There's alot of holes to be filled.

IF we actually happen to take drafting for the DL seriously this year, we should be in great shape to trade back a bit and still be able to get one of Fairley, Dareus or maybe Watt. It's different if we have our heart set on one individual, but if we're willing to be flexible, the depth and diversity of this year's DL class could really work to our advantage. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to come out of the first three rounds with at least two talented DLs plus two-three prospects at safety, right tackle or maybe ILB.

eddie mac
12-19-2010, 06:02 PM
Currently hold the 2nd pick on strength of schedule.

snowspot66
12-19-2010, 06:02 PM
What happens to the 2012 draft order if there is no season in 2011?

Do we keep the same pick?

I've heard that's the way it goes but I heard that on this board. Not from any official source. I assumed it would be a weighted lottery. Either way we'll be picking high.

atomicbloke
12-19-2010, 06:10 PM
I've heard that's the way it goes but I heard that on this board. Not from any official source. I assumed it would be a weighted lottery. Either way we'll be picking high.

What's a weighted lottery?

Pardon my ignorance but I don't follow NBA.

Requiem
12-19-2010, 06:12 PM
There's no reason we shouldn't be able to come out of the first three rounds with at least two talented DLs plus two-three prospects at safety, right tackle or maybe ILB.

Sure there is.

Is anybody going to want to trade up to where we are at?

Hopefully.

Jesterhole
12-19-2010, 06:15 PM
Look like we have #2. I see no reason Luck won't go #1, so that lets us pick the best available defensive linemen. Man, sure wish Suh was coming out this year instead...

HILife
12-19-2010, 06:27 PM
Not really good at this football thing are you? :angel:

He did a lot that made you think he could do well in the NFL.

Negative, all I saw was a lot of running and an occasional pass here and there. Doesn't tell me he will be a good QB, doesn't tell me he will be a bad one. Overall, I wasn't impressed, so I'm not in a hurry to crown him.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-Oha_7alHJ8/Rrz9AzSpSmI/AAAAAAAAA6o/di1rgBVr_xI/s400/dennis_green.jpg

HILife
12-19-2010, 06:28 PM
lol

lol

HILife
12-19-2010, 06:31 PM
No ****. I don't know what game the people hating on him were watching. He completely out-played my expectations. He needs to work on his touch on short passes and needs to get better at making reads, but that's true of pretty much every rookie QB that has ever been in the league.

Please tell me where you saw hate. I said I'm not in a hurry to buy into the hype. I didn't say he was a epic fail. I said I didn't see anything that told me we are set at QB.

Denver724
12-19-2010, 06:35 PM
Rumor has it that the Panthers are in love with Cam Newton. It would be great if Newton and Luck both came out.

Broncojef
12-19-2010, 07:01 PM
Please tell me where you saw hate. I said I'm not in a hurry to buy into the hype. I didn't say he was a epic fail. I said I didn't see anything that told me we are set at QB.

My point is with Tebow and Orton under contract for next year I think we are set there. Tebow played with enough talent and emotion to show as he progresses and becomes more comfortable I don't think we need to waste a high round draft pick at QB. We have huge holes on defense and hopefully the performance today showed the future Broncos staff that will be drafting for us the glaring hole is our Defense.

521 1N5
12-19-2010, 07:01 PM
Somebody should start a poll asking what to do with a top 5 pick.

If Luck comes out and we have the opportunity, draft him.

Take a DL/LB in top 5

Trade down and Draft 2 Defensive players

Get a WR :)

I would do it, but I've never made a poll and I'm scared it will be messed up hehe

HILife
12-19-2010, 07:10 PM
My point is with Tebow and Orton under contract for next year I think we are set there. Tebow played with enough talent and emotion to show as he progresses and becomes more comfortable I don't think we need to waste a high round draft pick at QB. We have huge holes on defense and hopefully the performance today showed the future Broncos staff that will be drafting for us the glaring hole is our Defense.

Yes, QB is not the team weakness. We have our current QB and if he doesn't, cut it maybe the Rook will be something special. Broncos need defense..........maybe a RB for the One, two punch, that can stay healthy.

HILife
12-19-2010, 07:12 PM
Somebody should start a poll asking what to do with a top 5 pick.

If Luck comes out and we have the opportunity, draft him.

Take a DL/LB in top 5

Trade down and Draft 2 Defensive players

Get a WR :)

I would do it, but I've never made a poll and I'm scared it will be messed up hehe

I like trade down and get two defense players. Don't have to trade out of the top 10.

broncosteven
12-19-2010, 07:25 PM
Somebody should start a poll asking what to do with a top 5 pick.

If Luck comes out and we have the opportunity, draft him.

Take a DL/LB in top 5

Trade down and Draft 2 Defensive players

Get a WR :)

I would do it, but I've never made a poll and I'm scared it will be messed up hehe

I would stay where we are and get the best DL in the draft. I would then move down in the later rounds and get more picks but this is the best pick we will have had since the merger so we better get one impact player in the 1st.

No need to get greedy, just get good.

Likwid Kerruj
12-19-2010, 07:27 PM
Trade down and pick up some bulk.

vercingetorix
12-19-2010, 07:28 PM
I would stay where we are and get the best DL in the draft. I would then move down in the later rounds and get more picks but this is the best pick we will have had since the merger so we better get one impact player in the 1st.

No need to get greedy, just get good.

Yeah, Denver needs impact players, preferrably on the defensive line.

snowspot66
12-19-2010, 07:33 PM
What's a weighted lottery?

Pardon my ignorance but I don't follow NBA.

Using a random ping pong ball drawing for the example we would have say 31 balls in the #2 slot while the Super Bowl winner would have one. It gives the crappy teams the best chance at a higher pick but other teams still have a shot for a higher pick too. It makes sense to me to have that setup in the case of a locked out season. But seeing as how high our pick is going to be I think I'd rather just have it based on this seasons standings.

HILife
12-19-2010, 07:37 PM
Using a random ping pong ball drawing for the example we would have say 31 balls in the #2 slot while the Super Bowl winner would have one. It gives the crappy teams the best chance at a higher pick but other teams still have a shot for a higher pick too. It makes sense to me to have that setup in the case of a locked out season. But seeing as how high our pick is going to be I think I'd rather just have it based on this seasons standings.

I never was a fan of the lottery. It allows the rich to get richer. If your the worst team in the league then you should have the first pick.

Broncojef
12-19-2010, 08:14 PM
I never was a fan of the lottery. It allows the rich to get richer. If your the worst team in the league then you should have the first pick.

Couldn't agree more the lottery is the worst way to setup a draft.

spdirty
12-19-2010, 08:19 PM
With what I saw this week I think we can concentrate on the #1 defensive player DT/DE on the board and be confident having Tebow on the roster. Playing Tebow now is huge for our draft strategy and in knowing what we have. We may well have won last week with Tebow in.

Even if we go 1-1 and everyone else loses out I think we are guaranteed no less than the 3 slot now right?

Detroit 4 10 0
Buffalo 4 10 0
Arizona 4 10 0
Cincinnati 3 11 0
Denver 3 11 0
Carolina 2 12 0

Yeah, that game made me comfortable with Tebow going forward. The potential extra injury situation has me worried but 6 hours ago I went from unsure to pumped about this guy. Had we had cmpepetent play calling we would have won today.

The number 1 pick will be huge if Luck comes out. I'm kind of praying that Atlanta clinches what they need to clinch before week 17 and Fox coaches like he's trying to keep his job. We could get a freaking kings ransom with that top pick if Luck comes out.

Hamrob
12-19-2010, 08:29 PM
A couple things to consider:

1. If we lose out and the Pathers win one game...the last one against the Falcons (They may have clinced and therefore bench their starters)...that would mean we would be tied with them. Who gets the nod?

2. Are we really sold on Tebow where we would pass on Luck. I mean, Luck is the most sure fire QB to come out in a decade and that includes, Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Rivers, Manning jr. etc.

footstepsfrom#27
12-19-2010, 08:29 PM
I would stay where we are and get the best DL in the draft. I would then move down in the later rounds and get more picks but this is the best pick we will have had since the merger so we better get one impact player in the 1st.

No need to get greedy, just get good.
I'm not sure because I haven't done more than take a cursory look at it, but I believe at this spot the only blue chipper that makes sense is the LSU CB who some compare to Champ. No matter who we draft, we've got to get star quality, not just another body or bodies to plug in. We need difference makers.

Hamrob
12-19-2010, 08:32 PM
I don't buy the bashing on McCoy crap. He called that game based on what he felt Tebow's abilities would allow. Do you think it was a mistake that he didn't have him throw anything down the middle of the field? The only plays he had him throw were dumps or bombs. Only 1-2 mid-range throws and only to the outside.

Yes, it was ugly, but there was a reason for it. Tebow is not ready for more!!!

baja
12-19-2010, 08:32 PM
A couple things to consider:

1. If we lose out and the Pathers win one game...the last one against the Falcons (They may have clinced and therefore bench their starters)...that would mean we would be tied with them. Who gets the nod?

<b>2. Are we really sold on Tebow where we would pass on Luck. I mean, Luck is the most sure fire QB to come out in a decade and that includes, Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Rivers, Manning jr. etc.

Can you imagine the debate that will create here should we qualify for that first pick.

SpringStein
12-19-2010, 08:34 PM
With what I saw this week I think we can concentrate on the #1 defensive player DT/DE on the board and be confident having Tebow on the roster. Playing Tebow now is huge for our draft strategy and in knowing what we have. We may well have won last week with Tebow in.

Even if we go 1-1 and everyone else loses out I think we are guaranteed no less than the 3 slot now right?

Detroit 4 10 0
Buffalo 4 10 0
Arizona 4 10 0
Cincinnati 3 11 0
Denver 3 11 0
Carolina 2 12 0

In your scenario, the order as of today would be:
1. Panthers
2. Bengals
3. Cardinals
4. Broncos

Cardinals have a weaker strength of schedule so would select before us.

spdirty
12-19-2010, 08:34 PM
The only way I would be OK with a lottery is if they did it on live TV. Not the Stern way. But even then it sucks. Let the tanker get their reward.

spdirty
12-19-2010, 08:36 PM
A couple things to consider:

1. If we lose out and the Pathers win one game...the last one against the Falcons (They may have clinced and therefore bench their starters)...that would mean we would be tied with them. Who gets the nod?

2. Are we really sold on Tebow where we would pass on Luck. I mean, Luck is the most sure fire QB to come out in a decade and that includes, Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Rivers, Manning jr. etc.

We get the nod over everybody because we have the weakest strength of schedule, which is the first tiebreaker.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-19-2010, 08:37 PM
I don't buy the bashing on McCoy crap. He called that game based on what he felt Tebow's abilities would allow. Do you think it was a mistake that he didn't have him throw anything down the middle of the field? The only plays he had him throw were dumps or bombs. Only 1-2 mid-range throws and only to the outside.

Yes, it was ugly, but there was a reason for it. Tebow is not ready for more!!!

This is complete ****. IT WASNT EVEN TRIED. The man is capable of throwing a friggin slant, its the easiest throw for a QB to make. Where were the bootlegs? Where were the rollouts? Where was more play action on first down? To DEFEND that play calling is disgusting. it was horrible.

footstepsfrom#27
12-19-2010, 08:37 PM
A couple things to consider:

1. If we lose out and the Pathers win one game...the last one against the Falcons (They may have clinced and therefore bench their starters)...that would mean we would be tied with them. Who gets the nod?

2. Are we really sold on Tebow where we would pass on Luck. I mean, Luck is the most sure fire QB to come out in a decade and that includes, Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Rivers, Manning jr. etc.
Who is saying that?

I get your point though. It's a huge decision...

Hamrob
12-19-2010, 08:39 PM
Can you imagine the debate that will create here should we qualify for that first pick.Yes, I think it would be crazy.

Personally, I love Tebow and I can see the potential where he could develop into a potential Steve Young type guy. But, it's a project and everyone has to be bought in...or it just ins't going to work.

How many yards did our offense have today? 235yds.

OR, do you take a kid like Luck who can come in and make all the throws right now? Who would Elway want?

That being said, if Carolina loses out...(and they may like their rookie QB too)...if they lose out...they are taking Luck...make no bones about it!!!

Hamrob
12-19-2010, 08:45 PM
This is complete ****. IT WASNT EVEN TRIED. The man is capable of throwing a friggin slant, its the easiest throw for a QB to make. Where were the bootlegs? Where were the rollouts? Where was more play action on first down? To DEFEND that play calling is disgusting. it was horrible.I think he can make those throws to...but, until he does it..under pressure...then, we really don't know that he can.

Tebow has taken no snaps this year....outside of this past week. McCoy did not want him throwing a bunch of picks and see his confidence slide. So, he called the game conservative. I'm fine with that.

I'd like to see him pick it up a notch each of these next two games...maybe let him sling it 25 times instead of just 16. Give him some roll outs and play action and see what the kid can do.

If they play Orton the last 2 games...it makes no sense at all.

Tim
12-19-2010, 08:48 PM
there is no guarantee luck will great, I'll take the best defensive playmaker and build the team around #15

mhgaffney
12-19-2010, 08:49 PM
Orton = benchwarmer

NFLBRONCO
12-19-2010, 09:25 PM
So lets get this straight

0-2 will net us 1st or 2nd pick

1-1 lowest we'll pick is 4th (Ari must win 1 game to lock up 3rd right)

Hamrob
12-19-2010, 09:31 PM
there is no guarantee luck will great, I'll take the best defensive playmaker and build the team around #15I don't really disagree...but, it's a big decision never the less.

I think I would try to trade back. Looks like we will have a top 3 spot even if we win one of our final 2. I would love it if they could trade back and pick up another 2nd rounder. We could still get a stud defensive guy and add alot of talent with 3 2nd's.

In fact, I hope we spend our top 3 picks on defense. I also hope we find a TE either in the draft or in Free Agency. We just don't have one that can help a QB out...ala Shannon Sharpe.

Broncojef
12-19-2010, 09:32 PM
So lets get this straight

0-2 will net us 1st or 2nd pick

1-1 lowest we'll pick is 4th (Ari must win 1 game to lock up 3rd right)

If we tied with Arizonawould it be strength of schedule or would the game we lost to them head - to - head become the factor?

spdirty
12-19-2010, 09:34 PM
If we tied with Arizonawould it be strength of schedule or would the game we lost to them head - to - head become the factor?

Strength of schedule. And we have the weakest sos out of all of em.

http://football.about.com/od/miscinformation/a/detdraftorder.htm

SpringStein
12-19-2010, 09:37 PM
Strength of schedule. And we have the weakest sos out of all of em.

http://football.about.com/od/miscinformation/a/detdraftorder.htm

not quite right - going into this weekend Zona had a .466 and we had .510. Doubt we could ever "catch" them.

NFLBRONCO
12-19-2010, 09:38 PM
If we tied with Arizonawould it be strength of schedule or would the game we lost to them head - to - head become the factor?

SOS wins out

Ari SOS is weaker they would move ahead of us

mwill07
12-19-2010, 10:03 PM
I want the Broncos to draft BPA, period. If That's Luck, great. If it's Cam Newton, fine. If it's a WR, fantastic. Until the Senior Bowl and combine is over, we don't really have a feel on who should be where, so it's all speculative right now.

vercingetorix
12-19-2010, 10:27 PM
I want the Broncos to draft BPA, period. If That's Luck, great. If it's Cam Newton, fine. If it's a WR, fantastic. Until the Senior Bowl and combine is over, we don't really have a feel on who should be where, so it's all speculative right now.

Actually, sometimes its best to go by game film and once the senior bowl and combine roll around, people have forgotten what the guys actually play like.

ScottXray
12-19-2010, 10:43 PM
We need to draft DEFENSE. Defensive NT , Defensive END , Interior LB ,
Saftey and CB are things we NEED.

On Offense we need a TE, need a RT, and maybe Center, a Scat back type RB that can get to the edge and break a long run.

Overall we need more SPEED on both sides.

Before we look at QB which we may not NEED but would like to improve, I'm sure we can find a player or two in the above classes that could help this team immediately with high draft picks. And trading down, if we can find a partner willing to give us more HIGH picks, will help a lot in filling all of the needs mentioned.

At any rate I thank the heavens that many of the posters here won't be running the draft board for the Broncos coming up this year.

Broncojef
12-19-2010, 10:58 PM
We need to draft DEFENSE. Defensive NT , Defensive END , Interior LB ,
Saftey and CB are things we NEED.

On Offense we need a TE, need a RT, and maybe Center, a Scat back type RB that can get to the edge and break a long run.

Overall we need more SPEED on both sides.

Before we look at QB which we may not NEED but would like to improve, I'm sure we can find a player or two in the above classes that could help this team immediately with high draft picks. And trading down, if we can find a partner willing to give us more HIGH picks, will help a lot in filling all of the needs mentioned.

At any rate I thank the heavens that many of the posters here won't be running the draft board for the Broncos coming up this year.


I think most of us here are sick to death of the Best Player available routine and the combine geeks telling us who is taller or stronger than the next guy.
Get big play makers on the defensive side of the ball and lets patch this defense once and for all.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-19-2010, 11:00 PM
Position-wise, this was a perfect Sunday for the Broncos, they were the only team in the current Top 7 to not win.

Going into the last 2 games:

5-11

No tiebreakers: Can't pick lower than 11th or 12th (a Minnesota win tomorrow night would give them 6, meaning Denver can pick no lower than 11th before tiebreakers are taken into account)

Including tiebreakers: Out of the current 5 win teams, only San Fran has a weaker SOS, but Washington, Houston, and Dallas all have marginally stronger SOS at this point. Probably around the 8th pick.

4-12

No tiebreakers: No lower than 6th

Tiebreakers: 4th

3-13

1st or 2nd, depending on if Carolina wins another game.

Denver could actually pick 1st overall at 4-12 if Arizona and Cincy each win an additional game, and Carolina somehow beats both Pittsburgh and Atlanta.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-19-2010, 11:03 PM
There's been no discussion of what wcould occur in the 2012 draft by the League, because: the 2010 season isn't over, there's no lockout, the 2011 draft hasn't occured, and the 2011 season hasn't been scrapped yet.

Until all of those things happen, the league isn't even going to begin to discuss what might determine draft order in 2012.

Both sides can posture all they want about a lockout, but to publically state what could determine a 2012 draft is a huge step to take, that I'm sure neither side wants to discuss.

OBF1
12-19-2010, 11:13 PM
All the possibilities and different scenerios are fun to ponder. This said, the only possible win I can see is against Houston. That is only if Arian Foster gets hurt and Andre Johnson breaks his ankle. I just do not see how we can stop their offense with our pathetic defense.

San Diego will beat the living daylights out of Denver.

PRBronco
12-19-2010, 11:27 PM
not quite right - going into this weekend Zona had a .466 and we had .510. Doubt we could ever "catch" them.

But what a race!! ^5

Hercules Rockefeller
12-19-2010, 11:35 PM
1st 4 picks should be:

2nd
35th
47th
66th

OBF1
12-19-2010, 11:37 PM
Plus Miami's 2nd round pick :thumbs:

Hercules Rockefeller
12-19-2010, 11:39 PM
Plus Miami's 2nd round pick :thumbs:

47th

NFLBRONCO
12-19-2010, 11:48 PM
It depends on how much Houston wants this game being day after christmas advantage Denver imo.

Old Dude
12-20-2010, 08:26 AM
The defense is a shambles - probably the worst Bronco unit I've seen. There's no pass rush. There's no ability to stop perimeter runs. There's no ability to cover intermediate throws. If a Safety somehow gets in position to make a tackle, the opponent will simply run around or over him. And by the second half, the D-Line is usually soft and gassed. The D-Line backups are incompetent.

At this point, Tebow has a very limited passing game. With Moreno hurt, there's no running game. None of the remaining backs or TEs can catch, so forget any kind of screen game.

We have poor special teams.

It's going to be 3-13 and you can take it to the bank.

ghostofjosh
12-20-2010, 08:33 AM
Whenever you have a chance at the 1st overall pick,you have to go with the franchise qb.I love Tebow and think he can be great someday,seeing we have so many holes to fill,I would probably trade out of the 1 or 2 and get multiple picks,thats the fastest way back to respectability

Old Dude
12-20-2010, 08:40 AM
By definition, the teams who have the top couple of picks usually have multiple holes to fill. Yet they rarely seem to be able to trade down out of those slots for a reasonable value.

Mile High Shack
12-20-2010, 08:43 AM
By definition, the teams who have the top couple of picks usually have multiple holes to fill. Yet they rarely seem to be able to trade down out of those slots for a reasonable value.

I know, people assume it's so easy to trade down, there is a reason it hardly ever happens, because most teams aren't willing to go all Mike Ditka and trade an entire draft for one player

bendog
12-20-2010, 09:00 AM
the only way it'd work is if den has the overall one, and carolina has the two, and Luck comes out.

BroncoInferno
12-20-2010, 09:01 AM
By definition, the teams who have the top couple of picks usually have multiple holes to fill. Yet they rarely seem to be able to trade down out of those slots for a reasonable value.

I outlined this in another thread, but the reason it's become difficult (if not impossible) to trade out of the top spot is because it has become cost prohibitive the last decade. You have the top pick getting more guarenteed money than established All-Pro players (e.g. Tom Brady's new contract gave him $45 million guaranteed; Sam Bradford got $50 million guaranteed before taking a snap). Another factor is the in some recent years there has not been a consensus no. 1, can't miss guy to trade up for. You have 5 or 6 guys all with similar grades, so teams prefer not to trade up.

Regarding my first point...that is about to change. One of the few things both the NFLPA and owners agree on is a need for a rookie cap to get rookie contracts under control. Rookies won't be signed until a new CBA is in place, so it's pretty much a slam dunk that a rookie cap will be in place for this draft. On the second point, if Luck comes out, he's viewed as a once-a-decade prospect. If the new staff is sold on Tebow, that means teams will be clamoring for the chance to take him. Even if Luck does not delare, Ryan Mallet likely will, and I think there will be teams wanting action on him, especially with a rookie cap in place. In short, I think this is a pretty good year to have the top pick if you want to trade out.

spdirty
12-20-2010, 09:02 AM
I know, people assume it's so easy to trade down, there is a reason it hardly ever happens, because most teams aren't willing to go all Mike Ditka and trade an entire draft for one player

Luck would make this draft different.

Old Dude
12-20-2010, 09:06 AM
I think Carolina has #1 just about locked up. The Steelers & Falcons are both pretty elite teams and both will probably need wins to enhance their playoff prospects and positions.

spdirty
12-20-2010, 09:07 AM
Have to also take into account that IF Atlanta beats New Orleans next Monday they would clinch home field advantage. Anyone here think they might tank the Carolina game on purpose to prevent a division rival from getting the top pick and Andrew Luck?

spdirty
12-20-2010, 09:08 AM
I think Carolina has #1 just about locked up. The Steelers & Falcons are both pretty elite teams and both will probably need wins to enhance their playoff prospects and positions.

Atlanta clinches home field throughout with a win over New Orleans next week. That game is also in Atlanta, so odds are decent they win that game.

SpringStein
12-20-2010, 09:10 AM
I think Carolina has #1 just about locked up. The Steelers & Falcons are both pretty elite teams and both will probably need wins to enhance their playoff prospects and positions.

Atlanta v. New Orleans is a big game next weekend. If Atlanta wins, they lock up their division and the #1 seed and so when they play Carolina in week 17 they might rest key players.

bendog
12-20-2010, 09:15 AM
As I understand it, if den and car tie for worst with 3 wins, Den gets the pick. The corner Prince Amukamara is imo a standout on defense. But there are 3-4 dline prospects for the 3-4 in the top of the draft, and I'd be ok with one of them and an extra pick in the top 40 and change.

DarkHorse
12-20-2010, 09:18 AM
As I understand it, if den and car tie for worst with 3 wins, Den gets the pick. The corner Prince Amukamara is imo a standout on defense. But there are 3-4 dline prospects for the 3-4 in the top of the draft, and I'd be ok with one of them and an extra pick in the top 40 and change.

Please God NO Amukamara

BroncoInferno
12-20-2010, 09:23 AM
Please God NO Amukamara

Ditto. Amukamara looks like an excellent prospect, but I like the young prospects we have in our secondary, and for once we are going to be in position for an elite DL prospect...Da'Quan Bowers. Getting Elvis and Ayers back healthy, and adding Bowers to the mix would make our D respectable overnight.

bendog
12-20-2010, 09:37 AM
champ and cox may well be gone next year

BroncoInferno
12-20-2010, 10:21 AM
champ and cox may well be gone next year

Either way, we've been throwing picks at the secondary for years, while ignoring the front 7. To be fair, we've rarely been in position to draft the top DL prospects. But this year we are.

OBF1
12-20-2010, 10:34 AM
champ and cox may well be gone next year

You could have Champ and Reevis as our CB's and it would not make this team any better, Even the best in the league can not cover #1 Wr's for 4-6 seconds while your defensive line is setting up for a coffee break on every play, while on the other hand a great defensive line covers up the lack of great CB's.

front 7 early and often is needed most.

Dedhed
12-20-2010, 10:51 AM
As I understand it, if den and car tie for worst with 3 wins, Den gets the pick. The corner Prince Amukamara is imo a standout on defense. But there are 3-4 dline prospects for the 3-4 in the top of the draft, and I'd be ok with one of them and an extra pick in the top 40 and change.

I have no issues taking a CB, but Amukamara is not even the best CB likely to come out. Patrick Peterson might be the best CB to come out since Champ, and I think he might be the best defensive prospect in the draft this year.

There are a bunch of guys at other positions I would take over Prince, but I can't think of many who I would take over Peterson.

bendog
12-20-2010, 10:54 AM
it will depend on the labor issue and who comes out. If it's only seniors, it's bleak. There is no defensive postion that doesn't scream for help ... corner was the only "bright side."

peacepipe
12-20-2010, 10:58 AM
drafting a CB would IMO make it more important to sign champ. Champ when he came into the league had the benefit of having Darrell green to tutor him. having Champ on the roster would do wonders in getting a CB ready to play.

worm
12-20-2010, 11:12 AM
It is funny that everyone in this thread tabs Luck as going to Carolina if he comes out when the Panthers took Clausen only 23 slots after Tebow last year and in most places was projected higher than Tim. Yet no one here sees us selecting Luck ourselves given the opportunity.

If you think it is the right move for Carolina...you should think it makes just as much sense for us to grab Luck.

Dedhed
12-20-2010, 11:14 AM
You could have Champ and Reevis as our CB's and it would not make this team any better, Even the best in the league can not cover #1 Wr's for 4-6 seconds while your defensive line is setting up for a coffee break on every play, while on the other hand a great defensive line covers up the lack of great CB's.

front 7 early and often is needed most.

I disagree with most of this both on principle and as applied to the current Broncos.

Yes, there's a symbiotic relationship between good secondary play and good line play, but I don't think one is less important than the other. QBs in this league will destroy 2nd rate CBs even when under immediate pressure.

The Steelers have the best front 7 in football, and are the 24th ranked pass defense in the league. 1 secondary player like Champ, Revis, Ed Reed, can change the whole complexion of a defense.

Add in Dumervil, a healthy Ayers with another year of experience and a first rate FA and the front 7 isn't necessarily our biggest need.

Our secondary is on the verge of being atrocious. Dawkins is done, Champ may be gone, Cox may be gone, Bruton, McBath are suspect at best. Patrick Peterson is probably the best defensive player likely to come out, and I would not pass on him if he's available.

Spend the two second rounders on front 7 and we've addressed needs without reaching on "Need" picks.

Beantown Bronco
12-20-2010, 11:14 AM
Yet no one here sees us selecting Luck ourselves given the opportunity..

Huh? Have you even read this thread?

worm
12-20-2010, 11:24 AM
Huh? Have you even read this thread?

I guess reading more carefully would have been an awesome prerequisite for my comment. :)

Dedhed
12-20-2010, 11:25 AM
If you think it is the right move for Carolina...you should think it makes just as much sense for us to grab Luck.
Clausen has looked like complete dog doo, even compared to Tebow yesterday, and has none of the leadership skills/intangibles shown by Tebow.

Also, the Panthers have more talent elsewhere on that team. They rank #12 overall in defense. The offense, and QB in particular, in Carolina is terrible. The Broncos on the other hand are desperately untalented on defense.

If you're looking to upgrade offensively, the QB position makes the most sense. If you're looking to upgrade defensively, QB doesn't make much sense.

NFLBRONCO
12-20-2010, 11:40 AM
Clausen has looked like complete dog doo, even compared to Tebow yesterday, and has none of the leadership skills/intangibles shown by Tebow.

Also, the Panthers have more talent elsewhere on that team. They rank #12 overall in defense. The offense, and QB in particular, in Carolina is terrible. The Broncos on the other hand are desperately untalented on defense.

If you're looking to upgrade offensively, the QB position makes the most sense. If you're looking to upgrade defensively, QB doesn't make much sense.

If Luck is on the board at Denver's pick or Denver has #2 pick I expect Denver to make a move on Luck over anything else.

Dedhed
12-20-2010, 11:48 AM
If Luck is on the board at Denver's pick or Denver has #2 pick I expect Denver to make a move on Luck over anything else.
I would expect them to get the Bills, Titans, Redskins, 49ers, Vikings, Dolphins, and Cowboys on the phone and see who puts the best trade package together.

I'd love to have a top ten pick and at least 3 second rounders in this draft.

Old Dude
12-20-2010, 11:53 AM
Atlanta v. New Orleans is a big game next weekend. If Atlanta wins, they lock up their division and the #1 seed and so when they play Carolina in week 17 they might rest key players.

I didn't realize that, but I seriously wonder if Carolina could beat Atlanta's backups. I doubt that we could.

Rohirrim
12-20-2010, 11:57 AM
The Falcons second stringers can beat Carolina.

Seems to me the Broncos problem will be choosing between Peterson, Fairley and Dareus. Bowers strikes me as strictly a 4-3 DE. If Luck comes out, either Carolina takes him or somebody who is desperate will trade up for him. I doubt anybody would trade up to the two spot for the above three players, or Bowers. The number three spot might have trade value for some team going after whoever the Broncos don't take. We're stuck in a briar patch. Even if Carolina passes on Luck, the Broncos are then in the vise of choosing between Luck and trading down, or taking Luck and looking for a trade partner for Tebow, or passing on Luck and taking one of the D players. Any of those choices could make or break the franchise and be talked about for decades. If Luck decides to go back for his Senior year, I don't see anybody trading out of the top five.

Peterson looks like a great pick, and an exciting player, but without a pass rush he'd probably be wasted on the Broncos except as a punt returner. Will the return of Doom be enough? Will he be 100%? Given where the Broncos are at, I would argue for Fairley. I know Dareus is probably the better two gapper and run stopper, but Fairley reminds me of Warren Sapp. The Broncos need a player who creates excitement, who makes a mess of a backfield, who can sack the mutha****ing QB, even if they would have to coach the cheap shots and late hits out of him. With Fairley at DE and Doom back at rush LB, I think the Broncos secondary and LB corps would be immediately upgraded across the board, but I would also use those two second picks for defense, for example on Jimmy Smith, CB and Greg Jones, LB, or another D lineman like Nevis, or maybe we get lucky and somebody like Paea drops into the top of the second round?

That number one pick is going to be a bitch. Is Xanders the guy we want making it?

NFLBRONCO
12-20-2010, 12:42 PM
I think if Luck or Fig Newton come out will cause trade partners.

NFLBRONCO
12-20-2010, 12:42 PM
The Falcons second stringers can beat Carolina.

Seems to me the Broncos problem will be choosing between Peterson, Fairley and Dareus. Bowers strikes me as strictly a 4-3 DE. If Luck comes out, either Carolina takes him or somebody who is desperate will trade up for him. I doubt anybody would trade up to the two spot for the above three players, or Bowers. The number three spot might have trade value for some team going after whoever the Broncos don't take. We're stuck in a briar patch. Even if Carolina passes on Luck, the Broncos are then in the vise of choosing between Luck and trading down, or taking Luck and looking for a trade partner for Tebow, or passing on Luck and taking one of the D players. Any of those choices could make or break the franchise and be talked about for decades. If Luck decides to go back for his Senior year, I don't see anybody trading out of the top five.

Peterson looks like a great pick, and an exciting player, but without a pass rush he'd probably be wasted on the Broncos except as a punt returner. Will the return of Doom be enough? Will he be 100%? Given where the Broncos are at, I would argue for Fairley. I know Dareus is probably the better two gapper and run stopper, but Fairley reminds me of Warren Sapp. The Broncos need a player who creates excitement, who makes a mess of a backfield, who can sack the mutha****ing QB, even if they would have to coach the cheap shots and late hits out of him. With Fairley at DE and Doom back at rush LB, I think the Broncos secondary and LB corps would be immediately upgraded across the board, but I would also use those two second picks for defense, for example on Jimmy Smith, CB and Greg Jones, LB, or another D lineman like Nevis, or maybe we get lucky and somebody like Paea drops into the top of the second round?

That number one pick is going to be a b****. Is Xanders the guy we want making it?

Good points NO I don't want Xanders making the choice.

BroncosMT
12-20-2010, 12:45 PM
Good points NO I don't want Xanders making the choice.

I would agree.....I can't get out of my head him being tied with McDaniels.....and maybe its wrong but its stuck there!

DarkHorse
12-20-2010, 12:46 PM
If we go Corner/Safety - take Peterson from what i've seen.


Otherwise fix the front 7 with some actual talent - no frigging castoffs or projects - put some talent in the box for God's sake.

OBF1
12-20-2010, 12:56 PM
I disagree with most of this both on principle and as applied to the current Broncos.

Yes, there's a symbiotic relationship between good secondary play and good line play, but I don't think one is less important than the other. QBs in this league will destroy 2nd rate CBs even when under immediate pressure.

The Steelers have the best front 7 in football, and are the 24th ranked pass defense in the league. 1 secondary player like Champ, Revis, Ed Reed, can change the whole complexion of a defense.

Add in Dumervil, a healthy Ayers with another year of experience and a first rate FA and the front 7 isn't necessarily our biggest need.

Our secondary is on the verge of being atrocious. Dawkins is done, Champ may be gone, Cox may be gone, Bruton, McBath are suspect at best. Patrick Peterson is probably the best defensive player likely to come out, and I would not pass on him if he's available.

Spend the two second rounders on front 7 and we've addressed needs without reaching on "Need" picks.

I guess the pourous front 7 are not responsible for the worse rushing defense I have ever seen the past number of years, but adding more high caliber DB's will fix that. Sorry for being so wrong about the great Denver from 7 :loopy:

I guess we have been great since the Brownco's of the shannahan era :thumbsup:

serious hops
12-20-2010, 01:42 PM
That number one pick is going to be a b****. Is Xanders the guy we want making it?

No.

McDman
12-20-2010, 01:57 PM
I guess the pourous front 7 are not responsible for the worse rushing defense I have ever seen the past number of years, but adding more high caliber DB's will fix that. Sorry for being so wrong about the great Denver from 7 :loopy:

I guess we have been great since the Brownco's of the shannahan era :thumbsup:

Hey, the Browncos led us to the AFCCG!

Also, why the eff has Xanders not been let go?

PRBronco
12-20-2010, 02:08 PM
Hey, the Browncos led us to the AFCCG!

Also, why the eff has Xanders not been let go?

I believe he is our cap guy and pretty good at it afaik.

Kaylore
12-20-2010, 02:11 PM
By definition, the teams who have the top couple of picks usually have multiple holes to fill. Yet they rarely seem to be able to trade down out of those slots for a reasonable value.

If the new CBA agrees to a rookie salary cap, especially for the top ten picks, expect to see that change. With top picks going to slotting the way the NBA and baseball do then the value there is much higher as the financial bust factor is reduced should you "miss" on the pick. Teams may be more willing to take a chance on a big name player who could put them over the top.

mattob14
12-20-2010, 05:04 PM
If the new CBA agrees to a rookie salary cap, especially for the top ten picks, expect to see that change. With top picks going to slotting the way the NBA and baseball do then the value there is much higher as the financial bust factor is reduced should you "miss" on the pick. Teams may be more willing to take a chance on a big name player who could put them over the top.

Not only that, I think the draft board sets up pretty well for teams in need of a QB. Arizona, Tennessee, and Minnesota should all be picking in the top half of round 1, and each has the ability to make a quick turnaround and return to playoff contention in 2011 with an upgrade at QB. I could see any of the three (depending on where Arizona ultimately ends up picking) trade 2011 and 2012 #1's for Luck, banking on the fact that the 2012 pick will be in the bottom-3rd of round 1. If I'm Denver, I'd have to think hard about that deal.

Pony Boy
12-20-2010, 05:15 PM
Cam Newton will make a major impact on the draft, he is a super-sized Michael Vick. He would fill the seats in Carolina, so don't be surprised if he goes first.

Denver724
12-20-2010, 07:29 PM
Not only that, I think the draft board sets up pretty well for teams in need of a QB. Arizona, Tennessee, and Minnesota should all be picking in the top half of round 1, and each has the ability to make a quick turnaround and return to playoff contention in 2011 with an upgrade at QB. I could see any of the three (depending on where Arizona ultimately ends up picking) trade 2011 and 2012 #1's for Luck, banking on the fact that the 2012 pick will be in the bottom-3rd of round 1. If I'm Denver, I'd have to think hard about that deal.

We need more than two #1's. They need to also throw in a #2.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-25-2010, 09:06 PM
Unless they win both of their last 2 games, Denver's pretty much guaranteed* a Top 3 pick tonight after Arizona's win.

*I say pretty much guaranteed because technically they'd have to use the SOS tiebreaker, but the current .518 for the Broncos and the .545 (Det) or .580 (Buf) aren't going to move enough over the last two games for Denver to end up with a stronger SOS than either of them.

NFLBRONCO
12-25-2010, 09:36 PM
This Arizona win helped Denver

finish

0-2 2nd pick (I don't see Carolina winning 1 game)

1-1 3rd pick (I don't expect Cincy to win another game)

2-0 7-10 est range

worst case scenerio

ZONA
12-25-2010, 09:47 PM
I don't expect Denver will win another game. The defense is simply "that bad" and the loss of direction with having an interim HC will be enough. Add to the fact, Kubs will probably try and muster up something special in showcase for the Broncos HC job should he be let go. But that game could go either way. The SD game, that's a loss straight up. Chargers should be able to handle the crap Broncos defense at home. At worst we go 1-1, but I think we go 0-2.

footstepsfrom#27
12-26-2010, 01:50 AM
Even if Carolina passes on Luck, the Broncos are then in the vise of choosing between Luck and trading down, or taking Luck and looking for a trade partner for Tebow, or passing on Luck and taking one of the D players. Any of those choices could make or break the franchise and be talked about for decades. If Luck decides to go back for his Senior year, I don't see anybody trading out of the top five.
I don't know exactly what this even means..."make or break the franchise"...but it's one of those things I hear people say and I think it's something people say...that's about it. I can't think of any draft selection or player transaction that broke an NFL franchise. I can think of some that screwed team's up or represent missed opportunity...but that's a far cry fom destroying a franchise. Maybe someone can make a case for the missed Elway opportunity being the reason the Colts fled Baltimore, but I doubt that's the case. Teams miss at the top of the draft with fair regularity, and it doesn't seem to break them. In fact it's just the way the draft is, you never know...you really never know for sure.
Peterson looks like a great pick, and an exciting player, but without a pass rush he'd probably be wasted on the Broncos except as a punt returner.
Is there some reason we need to avoid improving the defenisve line for the next 10 years? None of the DL players in this draft are in Peterson's league as players. I'll ask it like this...would you rather have Deon Sanders or your choice of Glen Dorsey/Tyson Jackson?

With a few exceptions, I believe you ALWAYS choose talent over other considerations.

lostknight
12-26-2010, 06:25 AM
The Falcons second stringers can beat Carolina.


The girl scount troop down the street can beat Carolina. It's hard to see a team that has ever been as bad as the Carolina team. They have a open war between their quarterback, and the only real receiver on the team. Anyone who thinks that Tebow is struggling needs to take a hard look at Clausen. Some jokers had him as the second best QB in the nation, and a top 5 pick. It's pretty incontestable that he's not any better then Bradford, Tebow and McCoy.

If (and it is a big if) Luck comes out, he will be heading to Carolina.


Seems to me the Broncos problem will be choosing between Peterson, Fairley and Dareus. Bowers strikes me as strictly a 4-3 DE.

Agree with you on the 4-3 comment. You select Bowers if you want to move to a 4-3. Him and doom off the same edge could be deadly. What scares the snot out of me about Bowers - and also about Luck honestly - is the one year wonder thing.

Fairley I like a lot. The problem is, there are times on video that he clearly is not giving it his all. You can really tie the slide of this franchise back to the Jarvis Moss pick, and this pick reminds me of Moss.

Peterson looks like a great pick, and an exciting player, but without a pass rush he'd probably be wasted on the Broncos except as a punt returner.


We need to solidify the CB corp just as well. They need to resign Champ, or at least lock him up for the year. This entire Nick Jones crap needs to stop. I don't see any LB or S that is gonna break the top five so if Peterson has the talent - and again he comes out - go for him.

Drek
12-26-2010, 07:10 AM
Peterson looks like a great pick, and an exciting player, but without a pass rush he'd probably be wasted on the Broncos except as a punt returner.

So one top 5 DL pick will completely turn around the line problems we've had for years?

You take Peterson if you can't trade down because Fairley and Dareus both have limited starting experience and reek of "breakout draft year" players. Peterson has been killing QBs since he was a freshman, playing in 13 and starting the last four. Since then he's started and been an elite corner for LSU each of the last two seasons. He's the CB equivalent of Calvin Johnson or Ndamukong Suh. Fairley and Dareus have put in impressive single seasons, but other than that they're a pair of JAGs.

If fixing the defense is top priority (which it should be) you try and trade out for more picks (obviously) and failing that take Peterson, resign Champ, cut Cox, and then spend those two seconds and your 3rd on DL talent, trading them around as needed to get good value.

If we walk away from the draft with Peterson and some early second round quality like Cameron Heyward or Allen Bailey (each 3-4 DEs) and Stephen Paea (NT) we'll have made a significant talent overhaul on the defense.

Bigdawg26
12-26-2010, 01:23 PM
If we walk away from the draft with Peterson and some early second round quality like Cameron Heyward or Allen Bailey (each 3-4 DEs) and Stephen Paea (NT) we'll have made a significant talent overhaul on the defense.

Agreed!

Requiem
12-26-2010, 01:27 PM
If we walk away from the draft with Peterson and some early second round quality like Cameron Heyward or Allen Bailey (each 3-4 DEs) and Stephen Paea (NT) we'll have made a significant talent overhaul on the defense.

But will those guys be there in the second round? It is a possibility, but Paea is already a first-round guy at this point, and Heyward and Bailey have that talent, but just never lived up to it because they are mentally weak. They are both good prospects, but I'd like to stay away from guys who don't have it between the ears.