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View Full Version : Week 13: Keep him or fire him?


Taco John
12-05-2010, 09:12 PM
Vote

TheProfessor
12-05-2010, 09:23 PM
As much as it makes me sick to think of bringing in someone else, who then has to bring in his coaches, who then have to draft their type of players, who then have to learn the new "schemes"... God,that process sucks.

It just sucks a little less than keeping him.

Fire him at the end of the season.

That One Guy
12-05-2010, 09:23 PM
Isn't your fire him guy the one from the Spartacus show? That was so warped I can't bring myself to click him. That and I'm not totally decided anyways.

Popps
12-05-2010, 09:23 PM
Great pics.

I say you have to let the season play out. If Kyle doesn't poop the bed, we win the game today. That would have meant something, like Taco said in his thread. Today wasn't a disaster, just a missed opportunity.

I'm still of the mindset that one more year, more talent and potentially some front-office help is a better solution than scrapping things at this stage.

But, there are certainly plenty of reasons to second-guess this coach right now. I understand it. If we move on, so be it.

Homer Simpson
12-05-2010, 09:25 PM
I think Josh will lose his job if we don't win at least 2 of the next 4. I hope he starts Tebow (but know he won't) and we see what the future looks like. I think he is the final piece in the O puzzle, and we trade Orton for more picks and we use all of those on D.

The Joker
12-05-2010, 09:28 PM
I'm still saying keep.

This season has admittedly been much worse than I imagined, but my belief was always that 2011 would be his make or break year and I still say we give him that chance to get it right.

I can't claim that I'm massively confident that he'll actually succeed, but I've seen enough to suggest that maybe we'd have a quality team with some sort of talent in our pass rush (a healthy Dumervil) and a QB like Tebow who can actually make things happen on 3rd down rather than fold like a guy with 2-7 off suit the way Orton seems to.

KevinJames
12-05-2010, 09:30 PM
Keep him if hes smart enough to give Tebow playing time, fire him if hes dumb enough to keep Orton in the whole season, because if he doesn't realize playing Tebow can possibly extend his time as head coach than he really is dumb like everyones been saying.

seasons dead why not play the kid, playing Orton does nothing for the team's future.....

HILife
12-05-2010, 09:31 PM
I'm still a believer in giving a coach three years, so no go.

footstepsfrom#27
12-05-2010, 09:50 PM
Keep him if hes smart enough to give Tebow playing time, fire him if hes dumb enough to keep Orton in the whole season, because if he doesn't realize playing Tebow can possibly extend his time as head coach than he really is dumb like everyones been saying.

seasons dead why not play the kid, playing Orton does nothing for the team's future.....
This.

I don't really care what the record is the rest of the way if they're playing Tebow and the other young kids. McD keeps his job if he throws it open to use the rest of the season to prepare next year's players, but if he tries to cling to winning meaningless games at the expense of developing players with this opportunity, then he needs to exit stage left.

OBF1
12-05-2010, 09:58 PM
Vote

We should fire our entire defense.... So yes

spdirty
12-05-2010, 09:58 PM
The only thing this guy has done that you could maybe say is successful is develop a quarterback.

His coaching blunders have cost us at least 3 games, if not more. Thats coaching blunders, not "not having a gm" blunders. His coaching blunders last year cost us the playoffs.

Then there were the running off of the Goodmans. And everyone else.

I really want the negativity to increase, and reach a boiling point. I want the attendance to not be announced the last 2 games of the season, out of humiliation. That is the fans voice. Only then can we force Bowlens hand.

And only then can optimism for this team return, and despair leave.

Garcia Bronco
12-05-2010, 10:03 PM
As much as it makes me sick to think of bringing in someone else, who then has to bring in his coaches, who then have to draft their type of players, who then have to learn the new "schemes"... God,that process sucks.

It just sucks a little less than keeping him.

Fire him at the end of the season.

Which is precisely why we need stability.

Bronco Yoda
12-05-2010, 10:05 PM
The Raider game will decide it for me.

24champ
12-05-2010, 10:07 PM
McDaniels for another year.

RhymesayersDU
12-05-2010, 10:08 PM
I say keep unless you have a sure plan for the next coach. I know that there has to be a formal interview process, the Rooney rule, etc, but that's a formality. For instance, let's just say it was Gruden. If we were to fire McD, I'd want Gruden to be waiting in the wings. I'd want it to be a done deal beforehand. And I know that's probably against some rules, but these are dire times.

Just firing him to appease people with no plan of attack would be stupid.

Kaylore
12-05-2010, 10:11 PM
I voted "donno" because it depends.

If we get a strong GM in the front office OR if there is likely a long lockout coming, OR a lockout and then an abbreviated year, then you might as well keep him one more year and bleed out the contract and see how he works with a GM.

If we don't get a GM, then I wouldn't mind seeing him fired.

I still can't believe they gave a rookie head coach a four year contract. That was really stupid.

strafen
12-05-2010, 10:12 PM
Today, we played great defense, and great running the ball.
And we still couldn't score one touchdown to win it at the end...
We've been stinking in 3rd down convertions. We're not scoring points par for the yardage we've been generating on offense

FWIW: McDaniels is currently working on his fourth 4-game losing streak in two years.
Not good. I'd say, can his ass!

fontaine
12-06-2010, 05:38 AM
The Raider game will decide it for me.

Yeah pretty much. I'm going to wait and see how this team responds in the remaining games.

Not getting beaten up and demolished at home would be a good start.

TheReverend
12-06-2010, 05:40 AM
When the season ends, no sooner.

Midseason firings are a PR stunt only where no one really wins.

fontaine
12-06-2010, 05:42 AM
Which is precisely why we need stability.

What stability is that?

Getting boo'ed at home, fined by the league for spying, having the worst defense/running game in the league? Allowing visiting teams to break records in scoring?

That's the definition of instability.

Dr. Broncenstein
12-06-2010, 05:44 AM
Find an experienced gm now, and let him decide.

WolfpackGuy
12-06-2010, 05:45 AM
It doesn't really matter.

Keep him around until the end of the season so the blind supporters MIGHT finally begin to see just how bad he is.

ColoradoDarin
12-06-2010, 05:46 AM
Isn't your fire him guy the one from the Spartacus show? That was so warped I can't bring myself to click him. That and I'm not totally decided anyways.

It's from the movie "Gladiator"


I'm still a believer in giving a coach three years, so no go.

This. It sucks losing, but we seem to have gotten a bit of talent the last couple of drafts (2010 more so) and that takes time to develop/gel. We've seen some evidence of that in our OL the last few games since they've all been healthy and worked together. One more year and if we're not at the least headed in the right direction then we make a move.

go_broncos
12-06-2010, 05:49 AM
There is no point in keeping Josh.
Regarding development of Tebow, people are acting as if Josh is the only coach in NFL that can develop QB's...Look at Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford..They developed quicker than Kyle Orton..

TonyR
12-06-2010, 06:18 AM
Find an experienced gm now, and let him decide.

This is exactly what needs to be done. This organization needs an experienced leader to transform perhaps the thinnest front office in the league. After the season this person should be brought in and have a heavy say regarding the futures of McDaniels and Xanders, among others. But you certainly don't fire McD now, and you probably don't even fire him after the season because of the looming lockout along with the prospect of paying 3 head coaches.

long beach bronco
12-06-2010, 06:30 AM
Bowlen and upper management are probably already planning to fire the whole coaching staff at seasons end, and start over again. I personally think that MCD's fate has already been sealed and these last four games are lame duck. Unfortunately we will have to go through this whole process again of a new coach and new shcemes.

Garcia Bronco
12-06-2010, 06:32 AM
What stability is that?

Getting boo'ed at home, fined by the league for spying, having the worst defense/running game in the league? Allowing visiting teams to break records in scoring?

That's the definition of instability.

Noo. This team just needs some stability. Which is why we have no depth on defense. Just calm down. Its gay ass NFL football and you won't see it next year.

tsiguy96
12-06-2010, 06:33 AM
When the season ends, no sooner.

Midseason firings are a PR stunt only where no one really wins.

except the two teams that did have midseason firings this year, are a fumble away from being 6-0 since the change. good post though.

WolfpackGuy
12-06-2010, 06:35 AM
They're a lot closer now to needing a total rebuild than they were two years ago.

He's toast.

oubronco
12-06-2010, 06:36 AM
I voted "donno" because it depends.

If we get a strong GM in the front office OR if there is likely a long lockout coming, OR a lockout and then an abbreviated year, then you might as well keep him one more year and bleed out the contract and see how he works with a GM.

If we don't get a GM, then I wouldn't mind seeing him fired.

I still can't believe they gave a rookie head coach a four year contract. That was really stupid.

This

bowtown
12-06-2010, 06:41 AM
There is no point in keeping Josh.
Regarding development of Tebow, people are acting as if Josh is the only coach in NFL that can develop QB's...Look at Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford..They developed quicker than Kyle Orton..

Imagine that, two first round draft picks, one of them 1st overall, developing faster than a 4th round afterthought.

go_broncos
12-06-2010, 06:49 AM
Imagine that, two first round draft picks, one of them 1st overall, developing faster than a 4th round afterthought.

Well..then you don't pick Tebow in 1st round..Did you know how many ****ing picks Mcd has given for getting Tebow??

bowtown
12-06-2010, 06:52 AM
Well..then you don't pick Tebow in 1st round..Did you know how many ****ing picks Mcd has given for getting Tebow??

I don't even know what the **** you are arguing anymore. You are the king of non sequiturs.

TheReverend
12-06-2010, 06:55 AM
except the two teams that did have midseason firings this year, are a fumble away from being 6-0 since the change. good post though.

except the two teams that did have a midseason coaching change had their coaching heirs on staff. good post though.

orangemonkey
12-06-2010, 07:11 AM
McDaniels has crushed the organization, embarrassed the city and broken public trust. He's a loser. Even with a great GM in place, I don't think McD deserves another shot next year. He is toast and I will be ecstatic when he and any semblance of the New England patriots culture (hoodie included) is permanently extinguished in Denver.

Rabb
12-06-2010, 07:26 AM
Well..then you don't pick Tebow in 1st round..Did you know how many ****ing picks Mcd has given for getting Tebow??

Did you know that he also acquired most of the picks he traded for Tebow by trading down in that draft?

I know facts aren't something you enjoy using, just figured I'd throw it out there

if you don't like it, just throw it right back

That One Guy
12-06-2010, 07:34 AM
Did you know that he also acquired most of the picks he traded for Tebow by trading down in that draft?

I know facts aren't something you enjoy using, just figured I'd throw it out there

if you don't like it, just throw it right back

Did you know we could still use those picks for other things?

That's like coming home and telling your wife you worked overtime but used the extra money for cocaine and hookers and thinking it's ok because it was extra money.

Not that I really care one way or the other on Tebow at this point but it wasn't like those picks would disappear if he didn't burn them on Tebow.

Mile High Shack
12-06-2010, 07:45 AM
I think I'm flip-flopping....I'm at a point, I think he can learn to be a coach if he just had his GM duties taken away, so he only concentrates on coaching.

I say keep him, but only with the caveat that he is no longer involved in personnel decisions...the GM gives him players that fit the style of play Denver is trying to do and Josh coaches those players.

Josh is in over his head, he simply cannot handle coaching and being a GM (yes yes, I know we have a "GM" but he is a money cruncher only, no real GM)

oubronco
12-06-2010, 07:46 AM
Did you know that he also acquired most of the picks he traded for Tebow by trading down in that draft?

I know facts aren't something you enjoy using, just figured I'd throw it out there

if you don't like it, just throw it right back

Hilarious!

orinjkrush
12-06-2010, 07:53 AM
thinking out loud....i suggest fire him IF he doesn't accept a functional shift in job responsibility, i.e. performing as Assistant Head Coach for Offense. Doesnt have to be made public or anything, but a GM or a HC with much more PROVEN SUCCESS needs to be brought in to draft and to get the D back. He could keep his salary, and focus on the O, perhaps including sitting in the booth to call plays (that maybe too obvious). give Josh a year to regroup with less to worry about. FIX the D and the DRAFTING. Seriously review the heads of scouting/ pro and college. FIX THE D and the DRAFTING.

Dedhed
12-06-2010, 07:54 AM
That's the definition of instability.
No it's not. Shanahan's management on the defensive side of the ball pretty much describes instability.

Applying that approach to the entire team/franchise will lead to numerous top 10 draft choices.

colonelbeef
12-06-2010, 07:56 AM
Great pics.

I say you have to let the season play out. If Kyle doesn't poop the bed, we win the game today. That would have meant something, like Taco said in his thread. Today wasn't a disaster, just a missed opportunity.

I'm still of the mindset that one more year, more talent and potentially some front-office help is a better solution than scrapping things at this stage.

But, there are certainly plenty of reasons to second-guess this coach right now. I understand it. If we move on, so be it.

Lol, still not McDaniels' fault according to Poops.

Always a straw man

colonelbeef
12-06-2010, 08:00 AM
And for me- my vote would be option #4- keep him for another year in order to give the organization credibility in the face of adversity, and then if he wins any less than 10 games in year 3, fire his ass asap.

He is deserving of being fired right now, and I wouldnt lose any sleep if it happened- but I am an advocate for the franchise in general, and firing a guy 2 years in looks bad all around. You need to show potential new coaches that you are willing to stick with them through the rough times, at least to a point.

Dedhed
12-06-2010, 08:14 AM
i suggest fire him IF he doesn't accept a functional shift in job responsibility, i.e. performing as Assistant Head Coach for Offense.Doesnt have to be made public or anything, but a GM or a HC with much more PROVEN SUCCESS needs to be brought in to draft and to get the D back. He could keep his salary, and focus on the O, perhaps including sitting in the booth to call plays (that maybe too obvious). give Josh a year to regroup with less to worry about.I know you were just thinking out loud, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I'm all for getting some experienced FO help and reducing Josh's role outside of being the coach, but there is no way this would do anything but make the team worse. Not to mention that no Head Coach would ever accept it, nor should they.


FIX the D and the DRAFTING. Seriously review the heads of scouting/ pro and college. FIX THE D and the DRAFTING.This is precisely why he deserves another year. Josh has done more to fix the defense in 2 years than Shanahan managed in 2 decades, and the fundamental reason the defense is struggling (talent) still is due to Shanahan's utter ineptitude in that capacity.

And I'm not really sure how anyone can complain about McDaniels drafting. First of all, it's far too early to fully assess a 2nd year player, but in 2 drafts he's landed Moreno and Ayers who are clearly legitimate starters in this league. Beadles, Walton, and Cox all are starting rookies who appear more than capable of developing into solid players. Thomas has stud potential and Decker looks like a solid pick.

The 2008 draft wasn't good, but still landed 2 starters and 3 other contributing players who may develop into starters (Bruton, Mcbath). The 2009 draft looks as successful as any we've had in Denver since 1983.

It's impossible to fix 9 defensive positions in 2 drafts.

Homer Simpson
12-06-2010, 08:16 AM
And for me- my vote would be option #4- keep him for another year in order to give the organization credibility in the face of adversity, and then if he wins any less than 10 games in year 3, fire his ass asap.

He is deserving of being fired right now, and I wouldnt lose any sleep if it happened- but I am an advocate for the franchise in general, and firing a guy 2 years in looks bad all around. You need to show potential new coaches that you are willing to stick with them through the rough times, at least to a point.

Good post.

tsiguy96
12-06-2010, 08:16 AM
except the two teams that did have a midseason coaching change had their coaching heirs on staff. good post though.

so youre original post applies ONLY in cases where you see fit. you know, because you said midseason firings are ineffective and PR moves, i prove you wrong by a pretty simple case of logic, and you change your original argument. sounds about right.

Dedhed
12-06-2010, 08:22 AM
Did you know we could still use those picks for other things?

That's like coming home and telling your wife you worked overtime but used the extra money for cocaine and hookers and thinking it's ok because it was extra money.

Not that I really care one way or the other on Tebow at this point but it wasn't like those picks would disappear if he didn't burn them on Tebow.

There's a flaw in your analogy. All the maneuvering within the draft was clearly with Tebow in mind.

To amend your analogy; that's like using extra money on cocaine and hookers but your wife is a bisexual coke fiend who asked you work overtime and then to go out and get a couple of hookers and an 8-ball.

Those picks never would have been amassed if Tebow wasn't in the picture. It would have been impossible to make them "disappear" because they never would have been there in the first place.

strafen
12-06-2010, 08:27 AM
And for me- my vote would be option #4- keep him for another year in order to give the organization credibility in the face of adversity, and then if he wins any less than 10 games in year 3, fire his ass asap.

He is deserving of being fired right now, and I wouldnt lose any sleep if it happened- but I am an advocate for the franchise in general, and firing a guy 2 years in looks bad all around. You need to show potential new coaches that you are willing to stick with them through the rough times, at least to a point.I know what you're saying, but McDaniels is the exeption.
He will be fired for incompetent. For not having a clue. For driving a good team with a lot of upside right into the ground with no hope insight, and faster than anybody in NFL history..

Jason in LA
12-06-2010, 08:47 AM
I'm really on the fence with this one.

On one hand, based on what McD has produced, I'd say fire him. Given one more year there is a good chance that he will just produce more of the same. There really isn't anything that points to him producing anything good.

But on the other hand, I just have a problem with getting rid of a guy after two years. It seems like a lot of people expect an instant turn around these days because some coaches have had success in a very short period of time. Raheem Morris is doing well in his second year, well, record wise, because I don't think they've beaten anybody with a winning record yet. But they have a winning record and are in the playoff hunt. So he has to be viewed as a success so far.

Fans are looking for those early successes, and if they don't get them they want the coach fired without giving him much of a chance.

What is working against McD is a 5-17 record since that 6-0 start. A coach should be given a decent amount of time to build a winner, but a 5-17 record does warrant a firing. If the Broncos were hovering around .500 then it would be silly to get ride of McD. But they went from a .500 team to one of the worst in the league.

Again, I'm not in favoring of firing a coach after two years, but if there ever was a reason to, this would be it.

Jason in LA
12-06-2010, 08:53 AM
And for me- my vote would be option #4- keep him for another year in order to give the organization credibility in the face of adversity, and then if he wins any less than 10 games in year 3, fire his ass asap.

He is deserving of being fired right now, and I wouldnt lose any sleep if it happened- but I am an advocate for the franchise in general, and firing a guy 2 years in looks bad all around. You need to show potential new coaches that you are willing to stick with them through the rough times, at least to a point.

I know what you're saying, but McDaniels is the exeption.
He will be fired for incompetent. For not having a clue. For driving a good team with a lot of upside right into the ground with no hope insight, and faster than anybody in NFL history..

I agree with both of these points, which is why I'm stuck on the fence. On one hand I agree that it looks bad to fire a coach after two seasons, but at the same time McD might be the exception. It might be better to fire him and look bad than to go through another season like this.

The thing that worries me the most is the one guy making the decisions. It really doesn't seem like Pat Bowlen knows what he's doing.

HAT
12-06-2010, 08:58 AM
Did you know we could still use those picks for other things?

That's like coming home and telling your wife you worked overtime but used the extra money for cocaine and hookers and thinking it's ok because it was extra money.

Not that I really care one way or the other on Tebow at this point but it wasn't like those picks would disappear if he didn't burn them on Tebow.

That would be the case if the decision to spend the money on hookers and blow was only made after receiving the OT cash.

If you knew you were going to be partying with the hookers and planned for it in advance by deciding to work some OT so as not to blow your original budget.....Damn right she should be ok with it. :yayaya:

Broncomutt
12-06-2010, 09:02 AM
I want him fired, but I don't care if he finishes the season.

55CrushEm
12-06-2010, 09:03 AM
did you know we could still use those picks for other things?

that's like coming home and telling your wife you worked overtime but used the extra money for cocaine and hookers and thinking it's ok because it was extra money.

Not that i really care one way or the other on tebow at this point but it wasn't like those picks would disappear if he didn't burn them on tebow.

lol rep

Rabb
12-06-2010, 09:12 AM
There's a flaw in your analogy. All the maneuvering within the draft was clearly with Tebow in mind.

To amend your analogy; that's like using extra money on cocaine and hookers but your wife is a bisexual coke fiend who asked you work overtime and then to go out and get a couple of hookers and an 8-ball.

Those picks never would have been amassed if Tebow wasn't in the picture. It would have been impossible to make them "disappear" because they never would have been there in the first place.

exactly

I am glad someone understood where I was headed with it...it pisses me off to hear the "we wasted picks" argument when that's WHY we got the extra picks

HorseHead
12-06-2010, 09:19 AM
the shame is, he is probably the best coach for Tebow, but not necessarily for us...

colonelbeef
12-06-2010, 09:26 AM
I know you were just thinking out loud, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I'm all for getting some experienced FO help and reducing Josh's role outside of being the coach, but there is no way this would do anything but make the team worse. Not to mention that no Head Coach would ever accept it, nor should they.


This is precisely why he deserves another year. Josh has done more to fix the defense in 2 years than Shanahan managed in 2 decades, and the fundamental reason the defense is struggling (talent) still is due to Shanahan's utter ineptitude in that capacity.

And I'm not really sure how anyone can complain about McDaniels drafting. First of all, it's far too early to fully assess a 2nd year player, but in 2 drafts he's landed Moreno and Ayers who are clearly legitimate starters in this league. Beadles, Walton, and Cox all are starting rookies who appear more than capable of developing into solid players. Thomas has stud potential and Decker looks like a solid pick.

The 2008 draft wasn't good, but still landed 2 starters and 3 other contributing players who may develop into starters (Bruton, Mcbath). The 2009 draft looks as successful as any we've had in Denver since 1983.

It's impossible to fix 9 defensive positions in 2 drafts.

This is why you are an inconceivable moron. Either you are 12 and mommy has left you alone on the internet unsupervised or you have the memory of a hamster.

Yeah brah, thank god Josh McDaniels has fixed the defense. Now finally we can taste the sweet 3-9 fruits! Shanahan never managed to put together a decent defense... amazing he was able to win two ****ing superbowls, and reach a 3rd AFCCG with a good to dominant defense, which totally refutes your non-point and makes you look like an ungrateful ass.

I mean, good point, mister no-credibility guy

RaiderH8r
12-06-2010, 09:28 AM
When the season ends, no sooner.

Midseason firings are a PR stunt only where no one really wins.

Unless you're the Cowboys or the Vikings.

Traveler
12-06-2010, 09:28 AM
Put me in the I dunno camp. As badly as I dislike this season, I'd probably reorganize the FO after the season. All for hiring an experienced GM with total control over personnel, coaches.

Reduce Josh's role to HC only. If he can't get with that, then he's out.

Pick Six
12-06-2010, 09:39 AM
It sucks that McDaniels is learning to be a head coach, at the expense of my beloved Denver Broncos. I still see potential in him, but yesterday sickened me. The running game was working, and we didn't use it when we needed it. Give him a 3rd year, and we'll see what happens...

Jason in LA
12-06-2010, 09:46 AM
It sucks that McDaniels is learning to be a head coach, at the expense of my beloved Denver Broncos. I still see potential in him, but yesterday sickened me. The running game was working, and we didn't use it when we needed it. Give him a 3rd year, and we'll see what happens...

That's one thing that doesn't sit well with me. He might be learning how to be a good coach with the Broncos just to go off and be a good coach somewhere else. That would suck if the Broncos waisted two years just so this guy could get training to be a good coach somewhere else.

Rohirrim
12-06-2010, 09:50 AM
Three years.

RaiderH8r
12-06-2010, 10:02 AM
Bring in a adult to oversee this whole project. VP of Football Operations. Bring in a GM and put McKid back in a position to succeed by letting him turn his focus back to winning football games. I won't lie, I like the idea of Marty Schottenheimer in the VP of Ops position. He knows how to get people prepared, he manages well and he could help McKid get his grounding as a HC. I think Marty is also old school enough to recognize that it is not a threat to put good football people in charge of key positions in the FO.

loborugger
12-06-2010, 10:46 AM
Put me in the I dunno camp. As badly as I dislike this season, I'd probably reorganize the FO after the season. All for hiring an experienced GM with total control over personnel, coaches.

Reduce Josh's role to HC only. If he can't get with that, then he's out.

This. We need talent more than anything else and that is a GM's role.

Traveler
12-06-2010, 10:47 AM
Bring in a adult to oversee this whole project. VP of Football Operations. Bring in a GM and put McKid back in a position to succeed by letting him turn his focus back to winning football games. I won't lie, I like the idea of Marty Schottenheimer in the VP of Ops position. He knows how to get people prepared, he manages well and he could help McKid get his grounding as a HC. I think Marty is also old school enough to recognize that it is not a threat to put good football people in charge of key positions in the FO.

I've listened to Marty several times on Sirius answer if he's intertested in getting back into pro football. Bascically says he's done with football in any team capacity.

broncosteven
12-06-2010, 10:49 AM
I voted "donno" because it depends.

If we get a strong GM in the front office OR if there is likely a long lockout coming, OR a lockout and then an abbreviated year, then you might as well keep him one more year and bleed out the contract and see how he works with a GM.

If we don't get a GM, then I wouldn't mind seeing him fired.

I still can't believe they gave a rookie head coach a four year contract. That was really stupid.

Maybe his dad will help him win in the NFL now that the Canton High season is over?

I would vote for that option.

go_broncos
12-06-2010, 10:52 AM
This. We need talent more than anything else and that is a GM's role.

You seem to think Mcd can coach..To me, he doesn't know how to use the talent we currently have(like Moreno)

Homer Simpson
12-06-2010, 10:53 AM
Maybe his dad will help him win in the NFL now that the Canton High season is over?

I would vote for that option.

His dad was there yesterday. The guy they showed on the tv during the game was not, NOT his father, he was a coach.

long beach bronco
12-06-2010, 10:58 AM
After what the fans have gone through in two years, it is better to cut ties now, or we'll be going through it for a third year. I give a vote of no confidence in MCD's leadership.

ColoradoDarin
12-06-2010, 10:59 AM
I don't understand where this "he needs a strong GM" meme started and now has taken hold. What I mean is look at the FAs he has brought in, he's running about 80% there. The 2 drafts have done well, though the 2010 draft is better than 2009, with a few misses. We seem to have gotten the offensive personnel in place (TE and OL depth being the only issues there) and the defense is still in progress - an incomplete this year because of Doom's injury. What more is a strong GM going to do? We already moved masterfully in the draft this year to get our players, and have hit on most free agents. We really just lacked that much talent and depth because of about a decade of crappy drafting and some questionable FA moves, you don't undo that in 1.5 years.

RaiderH8r
12-06-2010, 10:59 AM
I've listened to Marty several times on Sirius answer if he's intertested in getting back into pro football. Bascically says he's done with football in any team capacity.

Oh, Marty wants back in. He just needs a call from The Duke. McD might have to fire his brother which, if what I'm told is right, could lead to McDaddyD kicking somebody's ass.

If not Marty then somebody else. Like I said, we need an adult in the room with these guys. They're jumping on beds, knocking **** off the dressers, and crapping in the garbage cans. It's chaos and Bowlen is like Abe Simpson when it comes to baby sitting. We need to bring in Super Nanny.

RaiderH8r
12-06-2010, 11:00 AM
I don't understand where this "he needs a strong GM" meme started and now has taken hold. What I mean is look at the FAs he has brought in, he's running about 80% there. The 2 drafts have done well, though the 2010 draft is better than 2009, with a few misses. We seem to have gotten the offensive personnel in place (TE and OL depth being the only issues there) and the defense is still in progress - an incomplete this year because of Doom's injury. What more is a strong GM going to do? We already moved masterfully in the draft this year to get our players, and have hit on most free agents. We really just lacked that much talent and depth because of about a decade of crappy drafting and some questionable FA moves, you don't undo that in 1.5 years.

I'll sum up the "he needs a strong GM" in two words: Brady Quinn.

errand
12-06-2010, 11:12 AM
Great pics.

I say you have to let the season play out. If Kyle doesn't poop the bed, we win the game today. That would have meant something, like Taco said in his thread. Today wasn't a disaster, just a missed opportunity.

I'm still of the mindset that one more year, more talent and potentially some front-office help is a better solution than scrapping things at this stage.

But, there are certainly plenty of reasons to second-guess this coach right now. I understand it. If we move on, so be it.

To fire him now means that a new guy is gonna come in, do a complete overhaul of the team and then these ass clowns will be b****ing about why it takes the next guy 2-3 seasons to turn the team around.

[] This team has higher character players, guys that you'll only see on ESPN, not the police blotter....problem is not enough of them are playmakers, specifically on the defensive side of the ball.

[] Kyle Orton with the exception of this past game's miserable performance has pretty much but been better than advertised, and should show even more marked improvement with another season under his belt in this offense.

[] Moreno showed these past 4 games why Hillis should be and is playing in Cleveland, and looks like he was worth the 12th pick in the '09 draft

[] Champ played ok this season but he's not what he once was..neither is Dawkins. we can use the cap space to find us a top notch DT that can clog the running lanes, require a double team that frees up LB's, and another pass rusher besides Doom.

[] This team despite our troubles has been competitive in most of the losses...a turnover here, a call goes our way, etc. and we're probably 7-5 instead of 3-9.

He deserves one more season to make this team what he envisioned it to be when he took the job.....

ColoradoDarin
12-06-2010, 11:12 AM
I'll sum up the "he needs a strong GM" in two words: Brady Quinn.

And I'll retort in 2 as well "Chris Simms"

Homer Simpson
12-06-2010, 11:15 AM
I'm amazed at the closeness of the results.

bronco militia
12-06-2010, 11:16 AM
http://dpphoto.slideshowpro.com/albums/005/474/album-168631/cache/12.05.102075.sJPG_900_540_0_95_1_50_50.sJPG?129165 3540

bronco militia
12-06-2010, 11:18 AM
http://dpphoto.slideshowpro.com/albums/005/474/album-168631/cache/12.05.102077.sJPG_900_540_0_95_1_50_50.sJPG?129165 3541

strafen
12-06-2010, 11:32 AM
http://dpphoto.slideshowpro.com/albums/005/474/album-168631/cache/12.05.102077.sJPG_900_540_0_95_1_50_50.sJPG?129165 3541Thanks McDaniels!

strafen
12-06-2010, 11:33 AM
http://dpphoto.slideshowpro.com/albums/005/474/album-168631/cache/12.05.102075.sJPG_900_540_0_95_1_50_50.sJPG?129165 3540This is why we need to fire the idiot!

It sucks.

bronco militia
12-06-2010, 11:54 AM
from march 2009

http://www.drewlitton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/drew031809.gif

Fedaykin
12-06-2010, 12:22 PM
I don't think anyone is claiming McD is a great GM, but I see plenty still saying he's a good coach (despite the results). But, I'm seeing nothing out of this idiot that tells me he's anything but failure as a head coach. He's certainly demonstrated a great ability to put together a passing attack on 1st and 2nd down -- but fails in every other regard.

WolfpackGuy
12-06-2010, 12:35 PM
from march 2009

http://www.drewlitton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/drew031809.gif

He called that one.

broncosteven
12-06-2010, 12:42 PM
His dad was there yesterday. The guy they showed on the tv during the game was not, NOT his father, he was a coach.

They asked him in the Presser if the guy on the sidelines was his dad, he said yes and looked almost embarrassed.

Homer Simpson
12-06-2010, 12:49 PM
They asked him in the Presser if the guy on the sidelines was his dad, he said yes and looked almost embarrassed.

I know, I said that, he was there, but the guy they showed on TV with a clipboard in Broncos gear when they were talking about it wasn't his dad.

Taco John
12-06-2010, 12:55 PM
These results are actually quite stunning.

broncosteven
12-06-2010, 12:58 PM
I know, I said that, he was there, but the guy they showed on TV with a clipboard in Broncos gear when they were talking about it wasn't his dad.

I didn't say it was, his dad was on the sidelines behind his son during an NFL game.

broncosteven
12-06-2010, 12:59 PM
http://dpphoto.slideshowpro.com/albums/005/474/album-168631/cache/12.05.102077.sJPG_900_540_0_95_1_50_50.sJPG?129165 3541

KFC fans do have brains, too bad they couldn't fill Analhead yesterday, a division game with the playoffs on the line and empty seats everywhere.

go_broncos
12-06-2010, 01:03 PM
These results are actually quite stunning.

yep..looks like they still believe in Josh..Hilarious!

bowtown
12-06-2010, 01:51 PM
I think it's always better to err on the side of patience and consistancy (even if it ultimately doesn't work), than to hit reset every time we have a losing season. That goes for Wink as well. Shanahan's greatest sin, IMO, was too often making his DCs scapegoats and not giving them enough time. I would like to see a GM brought in and some power taken away from McDaniels, but even if that doesn't happen, I'd like to give this entire regime one more year with all pieces fully in place.

Rock Chalk
12-06-2010, 01:57 PM
Keep him for at least next year.

He was effectively handicapped this year by KEY injuries and with turning over the defense so much after Shanahan, there is no way he could have got enough DEPTH on that side of the ball to overcome the injuries.

I do believe with Dumervil, and a healthy Ayers AND the o-line/RB producing like we knew they could when healthy, this team will be competitive next year and McDaniels probably should be given the chance to prove it. This year has been an utter failure, there is no side-stepping that but how many of you figured our defense would be awesome AFTER losing Dumervil for the season? I'm betting none of you. How many of you figured that our run game would be SOO bad due to the injuries/inexperience of the line and at RB? Im betting none fo you. Sure you may have thoght it would take a hit but none of us expected it to be that bad.

Conversely, since the bye when everyone has been healthy, its been promising on that front. Let McDaniels have a healthy Dumervil and Ayers in year 3 for a full season and let's see what happens. If he fails then, cool, peace. We gave it 3 years and didn't jump the gun too early.

NYBronco
12-06-2010, 02:05 PM
Keep Josh McDaniels!

mr007
12-06-2010, 02:06 PM
Keep him for at least next year.

He was effectively handicapped this year by KEY injuries and with turning over the defense so much after Shanahan, there is no way he could have got enough DEPTH on that side of the ball to overcome the injuries.

I do believe with Dumervil, and a healthy Ayers AND the o-line/RB producing like we knew they could when healthy, this team will be competitive next year and McDaniels probably should be given the chance to prove it. This year has been an utter failure, there is no side-stepping that but how many of you figured our defense would be awesome AFTER losing Dumervil for the season? I'm betting none of you. How many of you figured that our run game would be SOO bad due to the injuries/inexperience of the line and at RB? Im betting none fo you. Sure you may have thoght it would take a hit but none of us expected it to be that bad.

Conversely, since the bye when everyone has been healthy, its been promising on that front. Let McDaniels have a healthy Dumervil and Ayers in year 3 for a full season and let's see what happens. If he fails then, cool, peace. We gave it 3 years and didn't jump the gun too early.

Good post - agreed.

Homer Simpson
12-06-2010, 02:09 PM
Keep him for at least next year.

He was effectively handicapped this year by KEY injuries and with turning over the defense so much after Shanahan, there is no way he could have got enough DEPTH on that side of the ball to overcome the injuries.

I do believe with Dumervil, and a healthy Ayers AND the o-line/RB producing like we knew they could when healthy, this team will be competitive next year and McDaniels probably should be given the chance to prove it. This year has been an utter failure, there is no side-stepping that but how many of you figured our defense would be awesome AFTER losing Dumervil for the season? I'm betting none of you. How many of you figured that our run game would be SOO bad due to the injuries/inexperience of the line and at RB? Im betting none fo you. Sure you may have thoght it would take a hit but none of us expected it to be that bad.

Conversely, since the bye when everyone has been healthy, its been promising on that front. Let McDaniels have a healthy Dumervil and Ayers in year 3 for a full season and let's see what happens. If he fails then, cool, peace. We gave it 3 years and didn't jump the gun too early.

Good post.

bendog
12-06-2010, 02:10 PM
Absolutely, we're obviousluy on the right track with his personnel moves. Solid takes.

broncosteven
12-06-2010, 02:17 PM
Keep him for at least next year.

He was effectively handicapped this year by KEY injuries and with turning over the defense so much after Shanahan, there is no way he could have got enough DEPTH on that side of the ball to overcome the injuries.

I do believe with Dumervil, and a healthy Ayers AND the o-line/RB producing like we knew they could when healthy, this team will be competitive next year and McDaniels probably should be given the chance to prove it. This year has been an utter failure, there is no side-stepping that but how many of you figured our defense would be awesome AFTER losing Dumervil for the season? I'm betting none of you. How many of you figured that our run game would be SOO bad due to the injuries/inexperience of the line and at RB? Im betting none fo you. Sure you may have thoght it would take a hit but none of us expected it to be that bad.

Conversely, since the bye when everyone has been healthy, its been promising on that front. Let McDaniels have a healthy Dumervil and Ayers in year 3 for a full season and let's see what happens. If he fails then, cool, peace. We gave it 3 years and didn't jump the gun too early.

What happens if we start 2-6 or 1-4 next year on what should be a very easy schedule?

cmhargrove
12-06-2010, 02:22 PM
I think he should get another year, and I would have been a strong defender of his before getting blown out by the Raiders and Chargers.

If we get swept by both of those teams this year, it's probably time to go.

So, that means we need to see the season play out until the last game vs. the Chargers. If we win, and potentially knock them out of the playoffs, it will be like our 2010 superbowl. Opinions will be really high of McDaniels' ability to deal with adversity, and he will stay. If we lose (especially badly), I think things look ominous for the offseason.

ScottXray
12-06-2010, 02:24 PM
He still shows some frighteningly bad decisions during games (such as
going away from the run in the 4th yesterday). I don't know if he can be broken of that BAD habit of wanting to always pass even when he shouldn't
and the run is working.

However, I think in genearl he deserves one more year. However it has to be playoffs or gone. More inconsistent play and more injuries shouldn't buy him any more time. Make it work McD.

WolfpackGuy
12-06-2010, 02:25 PM
What happens if we start 2-6 or 1-4 next year on what should be a very easy schedule?

Wait a minute.

Wasn't this season's schedule deemed as EASY?

I know schedule strength was brought up repeatedly last year.

errand
12-06-2010, 02:26 PM
Keep him if hes smart enough to give Tebow playing time, fire him if hes dumb enough to keep Orton in the whole season, because if he doesn't realize playing Tebow can possibly extend his time as head coach than he really is dumb like everyones been saying.

seasons dead why not play the kid, playing Orton does nothing for the team's future.....

I disagree...Orton for the most part has been playing very well in his 2nd season in Josh's offense...It's not his fault the running game sucks, nor is it his fault he has to play against two defenses- the opponent's and his own.

Orton's third season will see him make even more marked improvement, and to be honest he's still pretty young himself.

bowtown
12-06-2010, 02:29 PM
What happens if we start 2-6 or 1-4 next year on what should be a very easy schedule?

Then we should start putting a plan in place for what moves we want to make after the season is over and we fire him, assuming that he doesn't suddenly go on a winning streak. This is why ultimately, it would be nice to put a GM in place at the end of this season who will be here longer than next year whether Josh is fired or not. That way he would have a full season to understand what our strengths and weaknesses are, and put a plan in place for the transition, should it become apparent that McDaniels needs to be fired.

errand
12-06-2010, 02:50 PM
There is no point in keeping Josh.
Regarding development of Tebow, people are acting as if Josh is the only coach in NFL that can develop QB's...Look at Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford..They developed quicker than Kyle Orton..

McDaniels turned Brady into the hall of famer he is going to be...he turned a perrenial back-up into a potential pro bowler in Cassell, and likewise with Orton.

As for Bradford and Freeman...I'd say they are QBing more talented teams.

If you look at this team objectively...

[] Moreno started the year hurt, but the past few weeks has shown that when healthy he's a very capable RB that can hurt opposing teams rushing and receiving

[] Clady started the year playing tenative comingn off of knee injury...he's starting to play more to form as the season progressed. Next year he'll be alot more like his old self ala Tom Brady '09 vs. '10

[] We had two rookie starters on the OL which their inexperience caused our running game to sputter along with poor pass protection....the playing time they're getting should speed up their development as well.

[] The two guys everyone b**** about him trading away (Cutler and Marshall) for the most part have been replaced by either better/smarter players (Orton)...or group there of (Lloyd, Gaffney, etc.). Moreno has proven the past few weeks that he indeed was and still is the team's most talented RB.

[] We lost the only guy who could pressure the opposing team's QB, and nobody else stepped up...no pressure + no turnovers from secondary = very bad defense

[] Dawkins has made fewer plays and the secondary overall couldn't tackle me...let alone cover me. In fairness to them, me thinks the QB shouldn't have 8 seconds to throw the ****ing ball either. (see above)

Again, next season should show marked improvement in both the running game and pass protection as I think we have the right players in place on that side of the ball...he does need to find younger faster and most importantly better players on the defensive side.

bendog
12-06-2010, 02:52 PM
yep, orton's an upgrade. Tebow's a hall of famer too

Quoydogs
12-06-2010, 02:52 PM
When the season ends, no sooner.

Midseason firings are a PR stunt only where no one really wins.

The Cowgirls sure did.

DenverBroncosJM
12-06-2010, 02:55 PM
Josh will be back next year, it just doesn't make sense to fire him. Fiscally its irresponsible and he has shown flashes of being a good HC.


I am positive Bowlen thought this out when he hired a 30 something year old first time HC. We do need a GM and thats not Elway.

I think we have a full season next year, Tebow starts, Champ is resigned and Orton is traded for a 3rd and a 4th round pick.

I would even go so far as to say Tebow will start the SD game this year. God help him if he has a bad game but if he has a good game all the talk, all off season will focus on McD turning it around with Tebow. The drafting of Tebow was genius even if he never plays a meaningful down in the NFL. He is a cash cow.

bendog
12-06-2010, 02:57 PM
If Bowlen thought this out, he needs to be institutionalized.

broncosteven
12-06-2010, 03:00 PM
Wait a minute.

Wasn't this season's schedule deemed as EASY?

I know schedule strength was brought up repeatedly last year.

I thought I read an article where the Broncos 2010 schedule was rated near the top 10 as difficult. We have faced a lot more teams with winning records than duh bears have that much I am sure about.

errand
12-06-2010, 03:01 PM
There is no point in keeping Josh.
Regarding development of Tebow, people are acting as if Josh is the only coach in NFL that can develop QB's...Look at Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford..They developed quicker than Kyle Orton..

McDaniels turned Brady into the hall of famer he is going to be...he turned a perrenial back-up into a potential pro bowler in Cassell, and likewise with Orton.

As for Bradford and Freeman...I'd say they are QBing more talented teams.

If you look at this team objectively...

[] Moreno started the year hurt, but the past few weeks has shown that when healthy he's a very capable RB that can hurt opposing teams rushing and receiving

[] Clady started the year playing tenative comingn off of knee injury...he's starting to play more to form as the season progressed. Next year he'll be alot more like his old self ala Tom Brady '09 vs. '10

[] We had two rookie starters on the OL which their inexperience caused our running game to sputter along with poor pass protection....the playing time they're getting should speed up their development as well.

[] The two guys everyone b**** about him trading away (Cutler and Marshall) for the most part have been replaced by either better/smarter players (Orton)...or group there of (Lloyd, Gaffney, etc.). Moreno has proven the past few weeks that he indeed was and still is the team's most talented RB.

[] We lost the only guy who could pressure the opposing team's QB, and nobody else stepped up...no pressure + no turnovers from secondary = very bad defense

[] Dawkins has made fewer plays and the secondary overall couldn't tackle me...let alone cover me. In fairness to them, me thinks the QB shouldn't have 8 seconds to throw the ****ing ball either. (see above)

Again, next season should show marked improvement in both the running game and pass protection as I think we have the right players in place on that side of the ball...he does need to find younger faster and most importantly better players on the defensive side.

bendog
12-06-2010, 03:03 PM
keep posting that, you may convince yourself.

errand
12-06-2010, 03:04 PM
except the two teams that did have midseason firings this year, are a fumble away from being 6-0 since the change. good post though.

So maybe we should have fired Mike when we were 7-4 in '06 vs. firing the .750 winning % QB and playing some rookie version of Jeff George?

errand
12-06-2010, 03:12 PM
And for me- my vote would be option #4- keep him for another year in order to give the organization credibility in the face of adversity, and then if he wins any less than 10 games in year 3, fire his ass asap.

He is deserving of being fired right now, and I wouldnt lose any sleep if it happened- but I am an advocate for the franchise in general, and firing a guy 2 years in looks bad all around. You need to show potential new coaches that you are willing to stick with them through the rough times, at least to a point.

i agree....why would any new head coach come here if the message we send is that our owner will give you two seasons to turn it around?

I'm curious, weren't we in salary cap hell this season, and what impact should that weigh in the decision if Josh couldn't get the better players available?

errand
12-06-2010, 03:17 PM
What is working against McD is a 5-22 record since that 6-0 start. A coach should be given a decent amount of time to build a winner, but a 5-22 record does warrant a firing.

how does a coach with an 11-17 record go 5-22?

Perhaps you meant a coach that's only won 5 of his last 22 games...but you cannot dismiss his 6-0 start. If you're gonna b**** about his record...fine, but please give the facts. He's 11-17 after 28 games.

strafen
12-06-2010, 03:40 PM
Thanks for playing!

Keep Him! http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9145/thumbsuplowres.jpg
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errand
12-06-2010, 03:52 PM
This is why you are an inconceivable moron. Either you are 12 and mommy has left you alone on the internet unsupervised or you have the memory of a hamster.

Yeah brah, thank god Josh McDaniels has fixed the defense. Now finally we can taste the sweet 3-9 fruits! Shanahan never managed to put together a decent defense... amazing he was able to win two ****ing superbowls, and reach a 3rd AFCCG with a good to dominant defense, which totally refutes your non-point and makes you look like an ungrateful ass.

I mean, good point, mister no-credibility guy

I'm sorry but good to dominant defenses don't give up 40 points in consecutive playoff games..nor do they let opposing teams score on 5 straight possesions in that 3rd afccg you talk about.

broncosteven
12-06-2010, 03:52 PM
Looks like Bowlen voted for FIRED!

errand
12-06-2010, 03:54 PM
That's one thing that doesn't sit well with me. He might be learning how to be a good coach with the Broncos just to go off and be a good coach somewhere else. That would suck if the Broncos waisted two years just so this guy could get training to be a good coach somewhere else.

It would suck even more if his career mirrored his mentor's...where the first team loses patience and he goes onto win 3 (with a possible 4th this season) SB 's with a team that did show him patience

Dr. Broncenstein
12-06-2010, 03:55 PM
Shiat just got real.

DenverBroncosJM
12-06-2010, 03:55 PM
Josh will be back next year, it just doesn't make sense to fire him. Fiscally its irresponsible and he has shown flashes of being a good HC.


I am positive Bowlen thought this out when he hired a 30 something year old first time HC. We do need a GM and thats not Elway.

I think we have a full season next year, Tebow starts, Champ is resigned and Orton is traded for a 3rd and a 4th round pick.

I would even go so far as to say Tebow will start the SD game this year. God help him if he has a bad game but if he has a good game all the talk, all off season will focus on McD turning it around with Tebow. The drafting of Tebow was genius even if he never plays a meaningful down in the NFL. He is a cash cow.

Has anyone ever in the history of the internet been so wrong so quickly? I win, I win!