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View Full Version : Not to whitewash the game, but Champ and the Secondary showed up


lostknight
12-05-2010, 01:49 PM
I am not generally a believer in whitewashing defeats - especially ones like this which basically have to be laid at the feet of a coaching staff that has never been able to have a game where both the offense and the defense show up for the entire same game (even the last KC game was marred by way too many passing yards and TDs given up). However, the defense showed up, and deserves to be recognized.

Bailey and the new secondary showed up today. Baily completely and totally shut down the top WR in football this year. He was spectacular. With the exception of the normal Nate Jones foibles, the entire secondary proved that they really should be the first string at this point - the old veterans have worn down to the point that it's time to pass the baton.

Moreno ran, and ran. And for once never took himself out. This is the Moreno we have been waiting to see. He was elusive, athletic and reliable. Only Orton's complete and total collapse kept this team back, which is a vast improvement of the last six games. Unfortunately, what I posted about earlier was true of Orton today. Anything that threw Orton and his receivers off schedule, rendered Orton completely ineffective.

The entire McDaniel problem was exemplified in this game. He put together a awesome change in the defense with new younger players. But he was unable to produce a effective offense in the same week. This is a reflection of him being far too spread out. The lack of a OC since this team got rid of Bates has been the most consistent problem this team has had.

Archer81
12-05-2010, 01:51 PM
I am not generally a believer in whitewashing defeats - especially ones like this which basically have to be laid at the feet of a coaching staff that has never been able to have a game where both the offense and the defense show up for the entire same game (even the last KC game was marred by way too many passing yards and TDs given up). However, the defense showed up, and deserves to be recognized.

Bailey and the new secondary showed up today. Baily completely and totally shut down the top WR in football this year. He was spectacular. With the exception of the normal Nate Jones foibles, the entire secondary proved that they really should be the first string at this point - the old veterans have worn down to the point that it's time to pass the baton.

Moreno ran, and ran. And for once never took himself out. This is the Moreno we have been waiting to see. He was elusive, athletic and reliable. Only Orton's complete and total collapse kept this team back, which is a vast improvement of the last six games. Unfortunately, what I posted about earlier was true of Orton today. Anything that threw Orton and his receivers off schedule, rendered Orton completely ineffective.

The entire McDaniel problem was exemplified in this game. He put together a awesome change in the defense with new younger players. But he was unable to produce a effective offense in the same week. This is a reflection of him being far too spread out. The lack of a OC since this team got rid of Bates has been the most consistent problem this team has had.


I agree with the majority of this post except for the bolded. When the game was competitive, KC did nothing. If they get junk yards and points after the game has been decided, then who cares?

:Broncos:

Dr. Broncenstein
12-05-2010, 01:52 PM
Champ is still the man. By far the best corner on this team and totally worth whatever it takes to keep him.

zdoor
12-05-2010, 01:54 PM
I was really impressed with champ today. I thought it was by far his best game this year.

Rohirrim
12-05-2010, 01:56 PM
Champ and Moreno share the game ball. Orton should be forced to take the whole team out to dinner. This loss belongs to him.

DenverBound
12-05-2010, 01:57 PM
How is everyone forgetting the first half? Our defense played like **** the entire first half. They did adjust, and show up after the half though to which I give them much credit. Todays loss falls directly on Orton's shoulders. Mcd actually called a decent game today. I counted 8 times, EIGHT TIMES! Orton checked out of a run to which he threw an incompletion. I am a big Orton supporter but he really muffed this game.

TheReverend
12-05-2010, 01:59 PM
I agree with the majority of this post except for the bolded. When the game was competitive, KC did nothing. If they get junk yards and points after the game has been decided, then who cares?

:Broncos:

That's kinda been Denver's MO all season...

Dr. Broncenstein
12-05-2010, 02:00 PM
Just imagine how good Champ would be with a front seven like the Ravens. Bowe was completely shut out by Bailey, with zero pass rush and no help from the offense. When he wasn't busy shutting down Bowe he was lending run support and providing spot duty pass rush.

Taco John
12-05-2010, 02:01 PM
The nice thing is that we didn't get blown out, and had some players who really showed up today. So in a sense, this is a feel-good loss.

lostknight
12-05-2010, 02:02 PM
How is everyone forgetting the first half? Our defense played like **** the entire first half.


Yards are not points. Giving up only 10, the last three on a insanely bad missed tripping call was great.

Todays loss falls directly on Orton's shoulders.
True.
Mcd actually called a decent game today.
False. It's like someone handed McDaniels a running team, and he had no clue what to do with it.

I counted 8 times, EIGHT TIMES! Orton checked out of a run to which he threw an incompletion. I am a big Orton supporter but he really muffed this game.

You keep asserting this, but I didn't see any such evidence. I will go back and re-watch it later.

NYBronco
12-05-2010, 02:03 PM
How is everyone forgetting the first half? Our defense played like **** the entire first half. They did adjust, and show up after the half though to which I give them much credit. Todays loss falls directly on Orton's shoulders. Mcd actually called a decent game today. I counted 8 times, EIGHT TIMES! Orton checked out of a run to which he threw an incompletion. I am a big Orton supporter but he really muffed this game.

Orton had a poor game but the oline had its problems with the KC pass rush. Clady got absolutely burned and it resulted in a lost Orton fumble. Even the great and all mighty Peyton Manning will melt in the face of that kind of pressure.

gunns
12-05-2010, 02:09 PM
I am not generally a believer in whitewashing defeats - especially ones like this which basically have to be laid at the feet of a coaching staff that has never been able to have a game where both the offense and the defense show up for the entire same game (even the last KC game was marred by way too many passing yards and TDs given up). However, the defense showed up, and deserves to be recognized.

Bailey and the new secondary showed up today. Baily completely and totally shut down the top WR in football this year. He was spectacular. With the exception of the normal Nate Jones foibles, the entire secondary proved that they really should be the first string at this point - the old veterans have worn down to the point that it's time to pass the baton.

Moreno ran, and ran. And for once never took himself out. This is the Moreno we have been waiting to see. He was elusive, athletic and reliable. Only Orton's complete and total collapse kept this team back, which is a vast improvement of the last six games. Unfortunately, what I posted about earlier was true of Orton today. Anything that threw Orton and his receivers off schedule, rendered Orton completely ineffective.

The entire McDaniel problem was exemplified in this game. He put together a awesome change in the defense with new younger players. But he was unable to produce a effective offense in the same week. This is a reflection of him being far too spread out. The lack of a OC since this team got rid of Bates has been the most consistent problem this team has had.

Agreed, it seems McD can't put the offense and defense on the same board in the same week. That being said, I was pleasantly surprised at the final score and the defensive effort.

Popps
12-05-2010, 02:09 PM
Champ and Moreno share the game ball. Orton should be forced to take the whole team out to dinner. This loss belongs to him.

Pretty gut-wrenching to have Kyle play so well through so many losses with no support... and then play so poorly when the rest of the team showed up a little.

lostknight
12-05-2010, 02:14 PM
Pretty gut-wrenching to have Kyle play so well through so many losses with no support... and then play so poorly when the rest of the team showed up a little.

We've died with the ball in Kyle's hands and a chance to tie or win five times this season. I wouldn't feel too bad for Kyle here. The only difference between thoose performances and this one where that Kyle sucked the entire game.

The statistical reality of Kyle doing very poorly when 7 or less behind was in full force today.

misturanderson
12-05-2010, 02:14 PM
While the D did well (the secondary especially) and much better than is usual. The chiefs kept themselves out of the endzone before the D had a chance to. The chiefs' offense helped make this game as close as it was as much as our D did.

That said, I liked the improvement and hope this staff doesn't fall into the same pitfall the last one did where they hand starting spots back to veterans that don't deserve them as soon as they are healthy enough to be on the field.

Mr
12-05-2010, 02:19 PM
Josh McDaniels wouldnt see the "Big Picture" if it was in the form of a framed 8x10 color glossy thats nailed to his enormous forehead.

I wanted to lock all of the doors, put on some blues vinyl, and weep openly.

Archer81
12-05-2010, 02:21 PM
Josh McDaniels wouldnt see the "Big Picture" if it was in the form of a framed 8x10 color glossy thats nailed to his enormous forehead.

I wanted to lock all of the doors, put on some blues vinyl, and weep openly.


Well are'nt you the little ray of sunshine and fairy dust today.


:Broncos:

Popps
12-05-2010, 02:23 PM
We've died with the ball in Kyle's hands and a chance to tie or win five times this season. I wouldn't feel too bad for Kyle here. The only difference between thoose performances and this one where that Kyle sucked the entire game.

The statistical reality of Kyle doing very poorly when 7 or less behind was in full force today.

Yea, that's kind of a wanker-stat. There are too many circumstances to go through to be sure that those losses were on Orton. You can't just ignore all of his stats and use the ones that suit you. Bottom line is, he's played well enough to make us a top 10 offense.

This week, he didn't.

Mr
12-05-2010, 02:24 PM
Well are'nt you the little ray of sunshine and fairy dust today.


:Broncos:

Just a little jittery.
Its all good in the McHood

ColoradoDarin
12-05-2010, 02:25 PM
Josh McDaniels wouldnt see the "Big Picture" if it was in the form of a framed 8x10 color glossy thats nailed to his enormous forehead.

I wanted to lock all of the doors, put on some blues vinyl, and weep openly.

I think big picture is more poster sized than 8x10.

Archer81
12-05-2010, 02:25 PM
Just a little jittery.
Its all good in the McHood


Have you ever had the McDonalds McRibb? I wonder what animal part its really made of.


:Broncos:

Mr
12-05-2010, 02:28 PM
I think big picture is more poster sized than 8x10.

Perhaps a finger painting would be more Joshy's speed.

dsmoot
12-05-2010, 02:35 PM
Pretty gut-wrenching to have Kyle play so well through so many losses with no support... and then play so poorly when the rest of the team showed up a little.


What is equally gut wrenching are those games Kyle played well, had opportunities in the critical portion of the game and not finish it.

oubronco
12-05-2010, 02:43 PM
Have you ever had the McDonalds McRibb? I wonder what animal part its really made of.


:Broncos:

Anus

Archer81
12-05-2010, 02:44 PM
Anus


Thats alot of assholes.


:Broncos:

lostknight
12-05-2010, 02:46 PM
Yea, that's kind of a wanker-stat. There are too many circumstances to go through to be sure that those losses were on Orton. You can't just ignore all of his stats and use the ones that suit you. Bottom line is, he's played well enough to make us a top 10 offense.

This week, he didn't.

He wont be in the top ten by rating by the end of this day.

lostknight
12-05-2010, 02:48 PM
Yea, that's kind of a wanker-stat. There are too many circumstances to go through to be sure that those losses were on Orton. You can't just ignore all of his stats and use the ones that suit you. Bottom line is, he's played well enough to make us a top 10 offense.

I honestly feel that it's not a insane stat. it dovetails nicely with Orton's huge issues in the red zone, on third down, and in any sort of pressure circumstance. When it's do or die, Orton tends to die.

The difference is that he started in the grave today.

Merlin
12-05-2010, 03:08 PM
You can't just ignore all of his stats and use the ones that suit you. Bottom line is, he's played well enough to make us a top 10 offense. This week, he didn't.
You are easily one of the most intellectually hypocritical posters in the mane. When poster point out that Denver had the 2nd ranked offense, despite injuries and youth, you are quick to point out they did not lead the league in scoring (but neglect to point out they were top 12 in scoring when considering only offense, and top 10 when considering field position). Now you have an offense that is nowhere as good, which is not able to get any wins in the 4th quarter (which Cutler [and co] could and still does in Chicago), and you defend them by stating they are a top 10 offense. Your intellectual credibility has been totally destroyed in your blind need to defend a totally incompetent HC and FO. Nice job. Too bad, I used to enjoy your posts. Hopefully you will find your way back in the future.

BTW, before today's game Denver's O was 17th in scoring...

And yes, 4th quarter opportunities to win a game are critical ways of assessing QBs. Orton has chocked in a grand fashion. But it is not all on him, his coach should have done a better job...if it is true that Orton was checking out of runs, McD should have stopped him after the first couple since Orton had not business making any changes, especially today.

BroncoInferno
12-05-2010, 03:30 PM
You are easily one of the most intellectually hypocritical posters in the mane. When poster point out that Denver had the 2nd ranked offense, despite injuries and youth, you are quick to point out they did not lead the league in scoring (but neglect to point out they were top 12 in scoring when considering only offense, and top 10 when considering field position

This stat isn't intellectually credible either. In the first three games that season, we started off red hot scoring 41, 39 & 34 points. In the final 13 games that season, we averaged only 19 points per game. That's including defensive and ST points. So, you aren't being intellectually honest yourself with the above.

Merlin
12-05-2010, 07:15 PM
This stat isn't intellectually credible either. In the first three games that season...
Excuse me, but when did the league remove those games from the stat line??? Is there a link to that? That was their record, and their second ranking in offense was also their record...and that was with a bunch of young guys still learning the game. The problem with that team was not that it could not score, but rather it lacked maturity in how it handled the RZ (both at the player and OC level). That being said, they were still far better than this team from the perspective of moving the ball, converting on third downs, and scoring in the forth quarter to get a win. Orton meanwhile has had 5 opportunities and done nothing. By comparison, Cutler has done it numerous times this season, and failed only once. This is the QB so many like to criticize for his bonehead decisions.

PS, while we are at it, if we are going to choose particular moments in time to evaluate our players and coaches, what is our HC and Orton's record since game 7 of last season??? 5-17 One of the worst records in the history of Denver, and worthy of the crappy Lions, Chiefs, and Raiders of this millennia. Every attempt to defend either Orton or McD of late (especially by the likes of Popps and the sheep) has being tainted corrupt and twisted logic, total football ignorance, or the ignorant fandom affliction that requires team fans to turn off their brains and follow with blind allegiance.

Dudeskey
12-05-2010, 07:21 PM
We've died with the ball in Kyle's hands and a chance to tie or win five times this season. I wouldn't feel too bad for Kyle here. The only difference between thoose performances and this one where that Kyle sucked the entire game.

The statistical reality of Kyle doing very poorly when 7 or less behind was in full force today.

This was a coaching issue IMO. They were actually running the ball pretty damn well and rather than continue to do so, McD dials up one pass play after another, despite the fact Orton was not right today. Mixing in the pass is fine, but completely dumping the run in favor of the pass is another

TonyR
12-05-2010, 07:34 PM
Pretty gut-wrenching to have Kyle play so well through so many losses with no support... and then play so poorly when the rest of the team showed up a little.

Not only gut-wrenching but puzzling. This team just doesn't have everything go right very often. Always a mistake, turnover, penalty, poor play or bad luck at the wrong time, and often more times than once. It just defies logic that Orton would have by far his worst game on a day when the running game has its best but that's exactly what happened. If Orton simply has an average performance we win easily today. Go figure.

Gutless Drunk
12-05-2010, 08:02 PM
Yea, that's kind of a wanker-stat. There are too many circumstances to go through to be sure that those losses were on Orton. You can't just ignore all of his stats and use the ones that suit you. Bottom line is, he's played well enough to make us a top 10 offense.

This week, he didn't.

?
2010 Offense - Yards
#12 Denver Broncos 357.6
2010 Offense Scoring:
#19 Denver Broncos 21.3

Requiem
12-05-2010, 08:09 PM
Drinking hot cocoa mixed with peppermint schnapps is making threads like this a whole lot better.

gyldenlove
12-05-2010, 08:12 PM
Stat of the game:

3rd downs, Orton 2 for 11 (18%), Moreno 1 for 1

Dr. Broncenstein
12-05-2010, 08:33 PM
Drinking hot cocoa mixed with peppermint schnapps is making threads like this a whole lot better.

Sounds fabulous.

Requiem
12-05-2010, 08:35 PM
It is quite delicious.

Gutless Drunk
12-05-2010, 08:44 PM
You are easily one of the most intellectually hypocritical posters in the mane. When poster point out that Denver had the 2nd ranked offense, despite injuries and youth, you are quick to point out they did not lead the league in scoring (but neglect to point out they were top 12 in scoring when considering only offense, and top 10 when considering field position). Now you have an offense that is nowhere as good, which is not able to get any wins in the 4th quarter (which Cutler [and co] could and still does in Chicago), and you defend them by stating they are a top 10 offense. Your intellectual credibility has been totally destroyed in your blind need to defend a totally incompetent HC and FO. Nice job. Too bad, I used to enjoy your posts. Hopefully you will find your way back in the future.

BTW, before today's game Denver's O was 17th in scoring...

And yes, 4th quarter opportunities to win a game are critical ways of assessing QBs. Orton has chocked in a grand fashion. But it is not all on him, his coach should have done a better job...if it is true that Orton was checking out of runs, McD should have stopped him after the first couple since Orton had not business making any changes, especially today.

4th Quarter within 7 Points:

Jay Cutler 67.3% 423 Yds 5 Td 2 Int 108.1 Rating
Kyle Orton 49.3% 366 Yds 1 Td 2 Int 58.4 Rating

Crushaholic
12-05-2010, 09:05 PM
When was the last time Champ recorded a sack? He came to play...:thumbs:

The Joker
12-05-2010, 09:09 PM
Actually missed the game entirely.

Who started at safety alongside Hill, was it Bruton or Jones?

Hoping we'll see Thompson as the starting nickelback for the rest of the year and Bruton and McBath (when healthy) at safety. Let's see what we have with the two safeties and give the Squid some PT.

Popps
12-05-2010, 09:19 PM
To the thread topic... Champ really was insanely good today. What a performance.

Orton stunk it up, but there were some things to be happy about from a player-perspective out there, today. Obviously Moreno was a big one, but the line was great, outside of a few sacks... one of which I know was just a TE not getting over quickly enough, and the other Clady gave up.

lostknight
12-05-2010, 09:55 PM
To the thread topic... Champ really was insanely good today. What a performance.


Champ was spectacular, and a damn good reason to not think about Zone any more this season.


Orton stunk it up, but there were some things to be happy about from a player-perspective out there, today. Obviously Moreno was a big one, but the line was great, outside of a few sacks... one of which I know was just a TE not getting over quickly enough, and the other Clady gave up.

WTF they keep running that play when they have had several issues with the TE not getting over fast enough, and when the result is a fumble/sack, I have no idea.

Popps
12-06-2010, 12:11 AM
WTF they keep running that play when they have had several issues with the TE not getting over fast enough, and when the result is a fumble/sack, I have no idea.

Yea, that thing needs to be torn out of the playbook.

ColoradoDarin
12-06-2010, 05:19 AM
Actually missed the game entirely.

Who started at safety alongside Hill, was it Bruton or Jones?

Hoping we'll see Thompson as the starting nickelback for the rest of the year and Bruton and McBath (when healthy) at safety. Let's see what we have with the two safeties and give the Squid some PT.

I'm pretty sure it was Bruton, he played more this game than he ever has (don't know if he technically got the "start" though).

fontaine
12-06-2010, 05:32 AM
Jack McDaniels could go a long ways towards fixing a lot of personnel mistakes he's made by making sure we resign Champ.

There is no way we can allow a player that takes so much professional and personal pride in his play to not retire as a Bronco. A lot of players would be content to get their paychecks and move on from this disaster of a season but to see the way Champ responded from that last KC game and how Bowe caught passes over Bailey and the way Bailey responded shows me he's exactly the kind of guy we need lining up in our defense.

broncogary
12-06-2010, 06:05 AM
Actually missed the game entirely.

Who started at safety alongside Hill, was it Bruton or Jones?

Hoping we'll see Thompson as the starting nickelback for the rest of the year and Bruton and McBath (when healthy) at safety. Let's see what we have with the two safeties and give the Squid some PT.

It was Bruton, and he is a tackle-missing machine.

Popps
12-06-2010, 09:00 AM
It was Bruton, and he is a tackle-missing machine.

Was Bruton that bad? I had distractions here and couldn't replay as much as I normally do. Did you notice him whiffing or being out of position? Did it look like rookie stuff, or a talent issue? He's been tremendous on special teams. I was hoping one of these two could be a future starter.

broncogary
12-06-2010, 09:22 AM
Was Bruton that bad? I had distractions here and couldn't replay as much as I normally do. Did you notice him whiffing or being out of position? Did it look like rookie stuff, or a talent issue? He's been tremendous on special teams. I was hoping one of these two could be a future starter.

Let's just say he was almost in position, but managed to get air. I was surprised about that, seeing as how he excels on special teams, which is always in space, but he continually missed. And that's not even taking into account pass coverage, which I've heard is his weakness.