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eddie mac
12-05-2010, 02:22 PM
When's the last time we've reached that particular ebb or worse???

In the last 10 years???

Within the last 2 decades???

I cannot recall this team having as poor a record as that.

Normally in Mike's latter years it was late season collapses that derailed our seasons. This one was doomed from Day1.

Just interested to know can anyone recall a worse Broncos team from Coaching to players the whole kabush cos I cant.

Well maybe when we were alternating QB's between someone and a turd called Moore.

crush17
12-05-2010, 02:29 PM
I think that the fact that we've been that good is why you see so many people freaking out so hard right now about this team.

We are spoiled beyond belief with how consistently good and competitive they've been.

Kid A
12-05-2010, 02:31 PM
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl/denver/broncos.html

Still looking,but in strike shortened '82 we finished 2-7

broncosteven
12-05-2010, 02:32 PM
the 82 strike year was as bad as I think I ever saw but we got Elway the next year.

Rohirrim
12-05-2010, 02:32 PM
Tough times. Really tough times. It sucks.

broncosteven
12-05-2010, 02:33 PM
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl/denver/broncos.html

Still looking,but in strike shortened '82 we finished 2-7

You beat me to it REP

Dr. Broncenstein
12-05-2010, 02:34 PM
1990

We were 3-10 at one point. I remember vividly going to the KC game in KC with the fans chanting 3-9 on the way in.

broncoblue
12-05-2010, 02:34 PM
3-13 beckons

Popps
12-05-2010, 02:36 PM
All of you draft-geek-psychos should be happy! :)

Homer Simpson
12-05-2010, 02:37 PM
3-13 beckons

No it doesn't. The much beleaguered D showed up today against the high scoring Chorfs.

_Oro_
12-05-2010, 02:46 PM
It's not so bad. An infusion of talent via high draft picks will do this team some good. We haven't had a lot of those. We can drop Orton and maybe even Lloyd to add some more picks and really start to get younger and more talented.

Our o-line is starting to look like it has a lot of potential. I think Beadles and Walton are going to grow leaps and bounds over the offseason. Clady should be better a year away from injury and with another offseason learning the system and gelling with the rest of the line. We'll win a lot of games with just having a solid o-line.

The trick will be putting together a talented D. I really want to see Orton and Lloyd traded for picks, and I'd like to see us go heavy on defensive line and secondary.

eddie mac
12-05-2010, 02:46 PM
All of you draft-geek-psychos should be happy! :)

Dont include me in that Popps. I'm very disillusioned right now and this coming from the guy who posted we can still make the playoffs after the Jokeland hammering.

To come out and play like we did at home to KC then lay down and die in the next 3 just pulls those heartstrings that little bit tighter.

The sad fact is I dont see a whole lot of talent in this franchise at all right now. So for me it's as much a personnel issue as a coaching one. Maybe one decifered the other anyway.

_Oro_
12-05-2010, 02:48 PM
If nothing is done this offseason to infuse this team with a lot of young talent on the defensive side of the ball, then fine, let Josh go.

go_broncos
12-05-2010, 02:49 PM
If nothing is done this offseason to infuse this team with a lot of young talent on the defensive side of the ball, then fine, let Josh go.

hmm..you still want to give josh one more year?...good for you..
Fortunately, you are not the owner..
He will be fired after this season.

HILife
12-05-2010, 02:49 PM
I can't wait for the draft!!! I long ago gave up on this season. I started thinking Broncos would go 6-10 right after the bye, now I'm thinking 4-12. Denver can beat the Cardinals.

NFLBRONCO
12-05-2010, 02:55 PM
Ability to add real Talent is #1 problem
Coaching staff is #2 problem
Our fans overvalue our talent on this team is #3 problem

lostknight
12-05-2010, 02:57 PM
I was reading a article this morning on ESPN talking about how the general consensus is that this is the weakest draft in terms of seniors then there has been in a very long time. Even worse, with the CBA questions, juniors eligibile for the draft will stay away.

NFLBRONCO
12-05-2010, 03:00 PM
I was reading a article this morning on ESPN talking about how the general consensus is that this is the weakest draft in terms of seniors then there has been in a very long time. Even worse, with the CBA questions, juniors eligibile for the draft will stay away.

This is a huge concern for me esp guys we really need are JR's. We need a personnel guy more then ever.

snowspot66
12-05-2010, 03:03 PM
I was reading a article this morning on ESPN talking about how the general consensus is that this is the weakest draft in terms of seniors then there has been in a very long time. Even worse, with the CBA questions, juniors eligibile for the draft will stay away.

I was thinking about this and it came to me that some juniors might come out anyway.

There will be a draft regardless of the CBA situation. These guys will be brought into the league with a pay slotting system for the draft. There's no avoiding it. Last years class was the last big pay day class.

Juniors this year who are looking at first round status might want to go out this year, in what is being described as a weak class, to get themselves as high of a slot as is possible (the NFLPA won't allow them to get paid less than their draft slot no matter what). If they and others hold out for the next draft there could be a lot more quality players in the draft next year and some guys won't get paid as much.

Once they are out of the NCAA and have an agent that agent could very well support them financially for a year until they get their big contract.

I expect the lower round guys to stay in school but the bigger names might want to come out now.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

HILife
12-05-2010, 03:08 PM
I was reading a article this morning on ESPN talking about how the general consensus is that this is the weakest draft in terms of seniors then there has been in a very long time. Even worse, with the CBA questions, juniors eligibile for the draft will stay away.

Weak draft is not what I want to hear when the Broncos are putting up a 4-12 type season. Maybe the draft will be top heavy.

EDIT: I thought I heard this is suppose to be a deep D-Line draft.

snowspot66
12-05-2010, 03:09 PM
Weak draft is not what I want to hear when the Broncos are putting up a 4-12 type season. Maybe the draft will be top heavy.

EDIT: I thought I heard this is suppose to be a deep D-Line draft.

It won't have to be very top heavy for us to have a shot at a top player.

Fusionfrontman
12-05-2010, 03:10 PM
Trading Orton and Loyd for draft picks? Seriously? But when McD does this with less talented Cutler and Marshal everyone wants his head.

Lucid...so very lucid....

I can understand the Orton argument with another QB grooming behind him (IF...IIIF we get fair value for him) but lloyd has been unreal. Sign him for 3-4 years and the WR position is set for years.

DBroncos4life
12-05-2010, 03:14 PM
Weak draft is not what I want to hear when the Broncos are putting up a 4-12 type season. Maybe the draft will be top heavy.

EDIT: I thought I heard this is suppose to be a deep D-Line draft.

Only if the juniors come out. I think the top three DT/DE's are all juniors.

NFLBRONCO
12-05-2010, 03:14 PM
Weak draft is not what I want to hear when the Broncos are putting up a 4-12 type season. Maybe the draft will be top heavy.

EDIT: I thought I heard this is suppose to be a deep D-Line draft.

Problem is though using a top 5 pick on a 15-25 talent in other drafts blows and not what we need either.

_Oro_
12-05-2010, 03:16 PM
Trading Orton and Loyd for draft picks? Seriously? But when McD does this with less talented Cutler and Marshal everyone wants his head.

Lucid...so very lucid....

I can understand the Orton argument with another QB grooming behind him (IF...IIIF we get fair value for him) but lloyd has been unreal. Sign him for 3-4 years and the WR position is set for years.

The problem is that Lloyd is not young and he's at his peak in terms of value. He will never be more valuable than he is now.

Also I have feeling he's going to be looking to get seriously paid.

lostknight
12-05-2010, 03:16 PM
Weak draft is not what I want to hear when the Broncos are putting up a 4-12 type season. Maybe the draft will be top heavy.

EDIT: I thought I heard this is suppose to be a deep D-Line draft.


That's why I said senior talent. The juniors are not going to come out this year because of CBA uncertainty. The risk of being drafted, and then sitting there doing squat without pay for a year is a huge problem. No one will risk drafting a junior in a CBA year, because the player can always opt to go back to school and leave the team in a lurch in a work stoppage.

It's a bad ****ing mess.

snowspot66
12-05-2010, 03:18 PM
That's why I said senior talent. The juniors are not going to come out this year because of CBA uncertainty. The risk of being drafted, and then sitting there doing squat without pay for a year is a huge problem. No one will risk drafting a junior in a CBA year, because the player can always opt to go back to school and leave the team in a lurch in a work stoppage.

It's a bad ****ing mess.

If they do go out for the draft their agent will probably give them 100k or something like that. If they do go out for the draft they'll have an agent and can't go back to school. If they don't have an agent but go out for the draft the team that drafts them will retain the rights to that player.

elsid13
12-05-2010, 03:21 PM
I was reading a article this morning on ESPN talking about how the general consensus is that this is the weakest draft in terms of seniors then there has been in a very long time. Even worse, with the CBA questions, juniors eligibile for the draft will stay away.

I don't get where that is coming from. This draft is far stronger then last season and has number very good seniors in it.

misturanderson
12-05-2010, 03:51 PM
I was thinking about this and it came to me that some juniors might come out anyway.

There will be a draft regardless of the CBA situation. These guys will be brought into the league with a pay slotting system for the draft. There's no avoiding it. Last years class was the last big pay day class.

Juniors this year who are looking at first round status might want to go out this year, in what is being described as a weak class, to get themselves as high of a slot as is possible (the NFLPA won't allow them to get paid less than their draft slot no matter what). If they and others hold out for the next draft there could be a lot more quality players in the draft next year and some guys won't get paid as much.

Once they are out of the NCAA and have an agent that agent could very well support them financially for a year until they get their big contract.

I expect the lower round guys to stay in school but the bigger names might want to come out now.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

That could make sense. Hopefully it turns out that way. If there isn't a season next year and the draft class is ****, then we should still get a shot at high picks in a much stronger class the next year. Too bad we can't swap the year of Miami's 2nd rounder based on that though.

misturanderson
12-05-2010, 03:55 PM
I don't get where that is coming from. This draft is far stronger then last season and has number very good seniors in it.

Fortunately it seems strongest on the DL which is where we need to be focusing our draft anyway. Too bad the safety class looks uber-weak.

elsid13
12-05-2010, 03:59 PM
Fortunately it seems strongest on the DL which is where we need to be focusing our draft anyway. Too bad the safety class looks uber-weak.

Watch us go WR and CB heavy instead.

snowspot66
12-05-2010, 04:01 PM
Watch us go WR and CB heavy instead.

Can we stop with this joke?

Everybody and their grandma knows we're going DL this draft. To not go that route would ensure that whoever is the coach, McDaniels or somebody else, will not be coaching very long.

oubronco
12-05-2010, 04:03 PM
Watch us go WR and CB heavy instead.

McD would be fired on the spot I'd hope

elsid13
12-05-2010, 04:06 PM
Can we stop with this joke?

Everybody and their grandma knows we're going DL this draft. To not go that route would ensure that whoever is the coach, McDaniels or somebody else, will not be coaching very long.

Lighten up. On serious note, I wouldn't be surprised if they did take either Prince Amukamara or Patrick Peterson with their 1st pick. You don't draft 3/4 DEs in the top ten in a scheme that has them taking up the offense line.

misturanderson
12-05-2010, 04:17 PM
Lighten up. On serious note, I wouldn't be surprised if they did take either Prince Amukamara or Patrick Peterson with their 1st pick. You don't draft 3/4 DEs in the top ten in a scheme that has them taking up the offense line.

The chiefs did in 2009 (with a player that wasn't even very good) as did the Packers. In fact both DL taken in the top 10 were to 3-4 teams. You can bet your ass that if Suh or McCoy were available to a 3-4 team last year they would have taken them as well.

If a player that can fit on the DL in the 3-4 (meaning is big enough and strong enough) has the playmaking ability to be worth a top-10 pick there is no reason not to take them. If you have a guy with the talent to do more than just take up blockers then that's an advantage even if they aren't always used for more than taking up blockers.

Dudeskey
12-05-2010, 04:18 PM
Weak draft is not what I want to hear when the Broncos are putting up a 4-12 type season. Maybe the draft will be top heavy.

EDIT: I thought I heard this is suppose to be a deep D-Line draft.

Which means we'll sign some more spare parts d-linemen in lieu of drafting one.

broncosteven
12-05-2010, 04:21 PM
When's the last time we've reached that particular ebb or worse???

In the last 10 years???

Within the last 2 decades???

I cannot recall this team having as poor a record as that.

Normally in Mike's latter years it was late season collapses that derailed our seasons. This one was doomed from Day1.

Just interested to know can anyone recall a worse Broncos team from Coaching to players the whole kabush cos I cant.

Well maybe when we were alternating QB's between someone and a turd called Moore.

But I think if one uses homer math we can still win out and go 11-5 and win the division....



or maybe not...

TDmvp
12-05-2010, 04:24 PM
I think that the fact that we've been that good is why you see so many people freaking out so hard right now about this team.

We are spoiled beyond belief with how consistently good and competitive they've been.

As someone who has never been to Denver and loved the Broncos since I was like 5 I have beat that you guys are spoiled drum and not many get it...

Rep Crush...

elsid13
12-05-2010, 04:24 PM
The chiefs did in 2009 (with a player that wasn't even very good) as did the Packers. In fact both DL taken in the top 10 were to 3-4 teams. You can bet your ass that if Suh or McCoy were available to a 3-4 team last year they would have taken them as well.

If a player that can fit on the DL in the 3-4 (meaning is big enough and strong enough) has the playmaking ability to be worth a top-10 pick there is no reason not to take them. If you have a guy with the talent to do more than just take up blockers then that's an advantage even if they aren't always used for more than taking up blockers.

So how is Jackson and Raji working out for either those teams. None of the guys coming out are in either Suh or McCoy class and are 10 to 30 guys, not top ten players. Beside we can get two very good DL that fit this scheme in the second round with our two draft choices.

misturanderson
12-05-2010, 04:31 PM
So how is Jackson and Raji working out for either those teams. None of the guys coming out are in either Suh or McCoy class and are 10 to 30 guys, not top ten players. Beside we can get two very good DL that fit this scheme in the second round with our two draft choices.

Raji is doing pretty damn well and starting for the #1 scoring defense in the league and is putting up the best stats of anyone on their line. Jackson was an idiotic pick (which I stated) because he sucked.

I really don't know how good any of the DL players are coming out next year, except for what I've read in passing, so I'm not saying that they should be the pick over the 2 CBs (though the one from LSU is a junior and may not come out). I just don't think that your assertion that you don't pick 3-4 DL that high is accurate.

jsco70
12-05-2010, 05:00 PM
A record such as this is a long time coming. With the exception of a few scattered years, Denver has always competed. The problem becomes drafting in the middle to upper echelon of the draft year after year. Just how exactly did KC rebuilt their defense? A long string of high draft picks from the result of terrible seasons. San Diego is another example drafting Leaf, Vick and Manning, etc. Meanwhile, the Raiders kept blowing their high picks but seem to be on the upswing.

From my perspective, had Shanahan bit the bullet and rebuilt after TD blew out his knee, he'd still be coaching here. But instead he chose to put a band aid on year after year trying to shake the "he hasn't won anything without Elway" tag.

We are overdue for a rough stretch of seasons but the payoff can big. The offense has solid pieces in place but the defense needs an overhaul. The question is if McD is the guy who can get the job done. I've tried to support him but it's obviously getting harder all the time. Particularly after the video tape issue. Regardless, I still support him provided he give Tebow a shot this season and he provides some hope.

broncosteven
12-05-2010, 05:17 PM
So how is Jackson and Raji working out for either those teams. None of the guys coming out are in either Suh or McCoy class and are 10 to 30 guys, not top ten players. Beside we can get two very good DL that fit this scheme in the second round with our two draft choices.

Suh was a beast today, the Lions are a QB away from being very good

Jetmeck
12-05-2010, 05:40 PM
The problem is that Lloyd is not young and he's at his peak in terms of value. He will never be more valuable than he is now.

Also I have feeling he's going to be looking to get seriously paid.

lUDICROUS EVEN CONSIDERING TRADIND Lloyd...................Orton was a knee jerk trade by McDUMMY. Orton was A joke coming in and I hope MCdummy and him both hit the door this off season.

mhgaffney
12-05-2010, 05:51 PM
As someone who has never been to Denver and loved the Broncos since I was like 5 I have beat that you guys are spoiled drum and not many get it...

Rep Crush...

What?!

You mean you've never breathed that pure (hack...cough...wheeeze) Rocky Mt air???

eddie mac
12-05-2010, 06:02 PM
But I think if one uses homer math we can still win out and go 11-5 and win the division....



or maybe not...

I played that card already and after one week of domination, they just let me and the rest of the fanbase down again.

elsid13
12-05-2010, 06:18 PM
Suh was a beast today, the Lions are a QB away from being very good

The lions need some help on the offense and that should keep Stafford upright.

uplink
12-05-2010, 06:27 PM
What always helped the broncos in the past was the strong home field advantage which now appears to be gone with the new stadium. Even if the team was poor, they would hover around 500 due to this. I guess if you believe this is a problem, the owner is partly to blame for not creating a stadium that takes advantage of the home crowed noise. Look at the Chefs home field advantage, they are undefeated at home. They are not that good of a team really.

broncosteven
12-05-2010, 07:00 PM
The lions need some help on the offense and that should keep Stafford upright.

Maybe some OL and an RB but they have a lot of skill guys.

elsid13
12-05-2010, 07:20 PM
Maybe some OL and an RB but they have a lot of skill guys.

Yeah they do. BTW, some Cutler release were amazing quick. I was surprised how fast he was able to get rid of the ball and complete the pass.

broncosteven
12-05-2010, 07:26 PM
Yeah they do. BTW, some Cutler release were amazing quick. I was surprised how fast he was able to get rid of the ball and complete the pass.

He had one to his College WR that was lighting quick right off the snap.

I wish we could still run a slant every now and then...

robbieopperude
12-05-2010, 07:30 PM
Brandon Loyd's trade value is probably around a 3rd or 4th round pick.
Kyle Ortons' trade value is probably around a 4th or 5th round pick.

I can't see any benefit in trading either of those guys.

Note: Signing Loyd long term also doesn't make our WR's set unless you are certain that Demarius and Decker are going to be contributors in the next two years.
Royal is an average slot type player. Gaffney is also average and Loyd is above average. I would say we have a NE style WR corps who are all talented but we don't have the home run threat type player like a Calvin Johnson.

Best DL available for us are going to be Dareus from Bama and Quinn from UNC.

broncosteven
12-05-2010, 07:34 PM
Brandon Loyd's trade value is probably around a 3rd or 4th round pick.
Kyle Ortons' trade value is probably around a 4th or 5th round pick.

I can't see any benefit in trading either of those guys.

Note: Signing Loyd long term also doesn't make our WR's set unless you are certain that Demarius and Decker are going to be contributors in the next two years.
Royal is an average slot type player. Gaffney is also average and Loyd is above average. I would say we have a NE style WR corps who are all talented but we don't have the home run threat type player like a Calvin Johnson.

Best DL available for us are going to be Dareus from Bama and Quinn from UNC.

If there is football next year Lloyd is holding out.

Dudeskey
12-05-2010, 07:47 PM
Brandon Loyd's trade value is probably around a 3rd or 4th round pick.
Kyle Ortons' trade value is probably around a 4th or 5th round pick.

I can't see any benefit in trading either of those guys.

Note: Signing Loyd long term also doesn't make our WR's set unless you are certain that Demarius and Decker are going to be contributors in the next two years.
Royal is an average slot type player. Gaffney is also average and Loyd is above average. I would say we have a NE style WR corps who are all talented but we don't have the home run threat type player like a Calvin Johnson.

Best DL available for us are going to be Dareus from Bama and Quinn from UNC.

Yeah, It sort of reminds me when NE had Givens, Brown, Patten and Branch. None really stood out but they were all solid contributors.

broncosteven
12-05-2010, 08:09 PM
Yeah, It sort of reminds me when NE had Givens, Brown, Patten and Branch. None really stood out but they were all solid contributors.

The one great thing mCd has done here is build an excellent WR corps. Even Decker looks like he will be a very good WR in the coming years. I wish they could have used Royal on more drag routes underneath all the CiDtL routes at least Eddie contributed in ST's.

broncolife
12-05-2010, 08:29 PM
Its times like these I wish I was dyslexic.

broncosteven
12-05-2010, 08:38 PM
Its times like these I wish I was dyslexic.

At least you don't live in the Chicagoland area, man it is going to be even harder to deal with duh bear fans now at 9-3.

snowspot66
12-05-2010, 10:22 PM
At least you don't live in the Chicagoland area, man it is going to be even harder to deal with duh bear fans now at 9-3.

Yeah well let them thump their chest. Five of their wins come against the Lions, Bills, Panthers, and the Wade Phillips Cowboys. Their high powered offense is putting up 20.2 ppg and are 28th in yards per game.

They are the definition of a paper tiger. Yeah you make the playoffs but then you end up playing like we did against the Colts. It's almost better to have not made it in the first place.

zdoor
12-05-2010, 11:03 PM
The one great thing mCd has done here is build an excellent WR corps. Even Decker looks like he will be a very good WR in the coming years. I wish they could have used Royal on more drag routes underneath all the CiDtL routes at least Eddie contributed in ST's.

I agree. If Thomas can stay healthy, we have a pretty damn good group.

Bronco Yoda
12-05-2010, 11:21 PM
What always helped the broncos in the past was the strong home field advantage which now appears to be gone with the new stadium. Even if the team was poor, they would hover around 500 due to this. I guess if you believe this is a problem, the owner is partly to blame for not creating a stadium that takes advantage of the home crowed noise. Look at the Chefs home field advantage, they are undefeated at home. They are not that good of a team really.

Seattle is a good example of this. They made that stadium around crowd noise.

strafen
12-05-2010, 11:22 PM
If nothing is done this offseason to infuse this team with a lot of young talent on the defensive side of the ball, then fine, let Josh go.Even with a good draft, what you'd think our predicted record be next year?