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Soul-Bronco
12-02-2010, 03:49 PM
Anyone see PTI on espn today? They had Jaws on the 5 min segment and one of the questions asked was do you see john gruden coaching again? Jaws immediately replied with yes with out a doubt, saying the coaching is in his blood and he a motivator and a great teacher. He really emphasized the point of gruden going back to the NFL and not NCAA

Just a question, anyone thinking gruden saw what happened with spygate, so he turned the Miami job down thinking the denver job is gonna open up?

Just a question and interesting to see what yall think?

I want McD to get at least one more year, but i think if we did can him, gruden would be attracted to the denver job and tebow (no homo) , at least he would have some deep rooted hate for the gayders


Broncos 4 life !

PRBronco
12-02-2010, 03:52 PM
Oh man I was so confused there, I'm glad you (no homo)'d it.

Gruden's definitely holding out for an NFL job, you can tell by his climaxes over every single detail of every game. I would hate my life if he ended up here. I would hate my life like go_broncos hates his now.

Hogan11
12-02-2010, 03:56 PM
I'm not so sure...Buffalo offered him everything but ownership and he turned it down (and before you can make some Buffalo crack, think about it for a moment....total control over almost everything and he still turned it down).

It's going to take a bit more than what Jaws thinks to make me believe it.

serious hops
12-02-2010, 03:58 PM
Well he is on record calling Tim Tebow his "favorite football player of all time," so I'd say it isn't wildly far fetched.

serious hops
12-02-2010, 03:58 PM
I'm not so sure...Buffalo offered him everything but ownership and he turned it down (and before you can make some Buffalo crack, think about it for a moment....total control over almost everything and he still turned it down).

It's going to take a bit more than what Jaws thinks to make me believe it.

Yea, but have you ever been to Buffalo?

LOL

McDman
12-02-2010, 04:01 PM
I'd have been so pissed if you didn't put the no homo in there.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-02-2010, 04:01 PM
I'd like to make a Buffalo crack.

But all the fat people there already made one.

HAT
12-02-2010, 04:04 PM
Oh man I was so confused there, I'm glad you (no homo)'d it.

Gruden's definitely holding out for an NFL job, you can tell by his climaxes over every single detail of every game. I would hate my life if he ended up here. I would hate my life like go_broncos hates his now.

Well, the good news in that scenario is you would only have to make one more post and just copy/paste it everywhere for a few years....

"Gruden sucks and is ruining this franchise.
Look at how bad he has screwed up the draft picks. He is Evil and i hate him!"

;D

Ratboy
12-02-2010, 04:05 PM
Well he is on record calling Tim Tebow his "favorite football player of all time," so I'd say it isn't wildly far fetched.

This is why I do not want him here.

Will he be able to move forward without Tebow if he is not a good QB?

Sassy
12-02-2010, 04:27 PM
Yea, but have you ever been to Buffalo?

LOL

Obviously a NEWBIE here :rofl:

Soul-Bronco
12-02-2010, 04:44 PM
well, it cant hurt to have watched tape of every team of the NFL for the past two seasons and get paid for it

Captain 'Dre
12-02-2010, 04:51 PM
Is this the job Gruden would want?

I mean, maybe it is... but then again, maybe not. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/bosefus69/shrug.gif

HILife
12-02-2010, 04:55 PM
Anyone see PTI on espn today? They had Jaws on the 5 min segment and one of the questions asked was do you see john gruden coaching again? Jaws immediately replied with yes with out a doubt, saying the coaching is in his blood and he a motivator and a great teacher. He really emphasized the point of gruden going back to the NFL and not NCAA

Just a question, anyone thinking gruden saw what happened with spygate, so he turned the Miami job down thinking the denver job is gonna open up?

Just a question and interesting to see what yall think?

I want McD to get at least one more year, but i think if we did can him, gruden would be attracted to the denver job and tebow (no homo) , at least he would have some deep rooted hate for the gayders


Broncos 4 life !

I hope not. Don't care so much for Gruden.

Popps
12-02-2010, 05:02 PM
I highly doubt Gruden has Denver on his mind. That said, it would be tough to be upset about a guy with his track record coming in.

Garcia Bronco
12-02-2010, 05:05 PM
I just heard on the light rail that Gruden has left ESPN, and been hired as a consultant to Josh McDaniels.

Rock Chalk
12-02-2010, 05:20 PM
I'm not so sure...Buffalo offered him everything but ownership and he turned it down (and before you can make some Buffalo crack, think about it for a moment....total control over almost everything and he still turned it down).

It's going to take a bit more than what Jaws thinks to make me believe it.

Gruden wants a QB and there isn't one (supposedly) in Buffalo (though I think Fitzpatrick isn't half bad).

He doesn't want the same mess he had in Tampa, looking for that elusive elite level QB and if he is enamored with Tebow as many say then its possible.


That being said, I dont want anyone who has won a superbowl. No coach has EVER won a superbowl with two separate teams as a HC and if we are going to get a coach I want one who doesn't have the house stacked against him.

gunns
12-02-2010, 05:27 PM
He has said he's staying with ESPN. ESPN said they expect him thru the 2011 season. Things could change though. But I do not want another coach from the offensive side.

chadta
12-02-2010, 05:36 PM
I'm not so sure...Buffalo offered him everything but ownership and he turned it down (and before you can make some Buffalo crack, think about it for a moment....total control over almost everything and he still turned it down).

It's going to take a bit more than what Jaws thinks to make me believe it.

heres 26 reasons

http://media.wkbw.com/images/600*450/Snow+Measure+Thurs.JPG

this picture is from today, no local storm, just pure lake effect snow

no snow up here in canada btw

aw man the pic wont show

SonOfLe-loLang
12-02-2010, 05:38 PM
Gruden wants a QB and there isn't one (supposedly) in Buffalo (though I think Fitzpatrick isn't half bad).

He doesn't want the same mess he had in Tampa, looking for that elusive elite level QB and if he is enamored with Tebow as many say then its possible.


That being said, I dont want anyone who has won a superbowl. No coach has EVER won a superbowl with two separate teams as a HC and if we are going to get a coach I want one who doesn't have the house stacked against him.

I may be wrong but...

No team ever went 6-0 and missed the playoffs
no team ever had a 3 game lead with 3 games left and lost a division
in 1999, no super bowl team ever went 6-10 the following year!

Hogan11
12-02-2010, 05:48 PM
heres 26 reasons

http://media.wkbw.com/images/600*450/Snow+Measure+Thurs.JPG

this picture is from today, no local storm, just pure lake effect snow

no snow up here in canada btw

aw man the pic wont show

No need to see the pic, I'm WELL aware of it

Man-Goblin
12-02-2010, 05:49 PM
This is why I do not want him here.

Will he be able to move forward without Tebow if he is not a good QB?

Gruden collects QBs. Almost obsessively. I doubt he would hold on to Tebow too long if it becomes apparent he can't run his offense. But that being said, Tebow is a big reason I think he wants the job; the other being a chance to stick it to the Raiders.

Plus, I could have sworm he had an agenda during that San Diego game. He was overly critical of the Broncos coaching staff; more so than I've ever heard an analyst be on the attack. His only word of praise all night was for Martindale saying he did a decent job "with the talent he's been given". He repeatedly talked about his experience coaching in the division as if to say "I've done it before, I can do it again!"

I think Gruden clearly views the Broncos as a fallback if he doesn't get the Cowboys job, and it's starting to look Garrett has a good chance at keeping staying there. And to be honest, he'd probably be my #1 choice if McDaniels is fired.

Hogan11
12-02-2010, 05:51 PM
Gruden wants a QB and there isn't one (supposedly) in Buffalo (though I think Fitzpatrick isn't half bad).

He doesn't want the same mess he had in Tampa, looking for that elusive elite level QB and if he is enamored with Tebow as many say then its possible.


That being said, I dont want anyone who has won a superbowl. No coach has EVER won a superbowl with two separate teams as a HC and if we are going to get a coach I want one who doesn't have the house stacked against him.

Even still, few HC's will pass up almost total control of a franchise....the egos on these guys just won't permit it.

That's why I'm not buying it.

mkporter
12-02-2010, 05:52 PM
That being said, I dont want anyone who has won a superbowl. No coach has EVER won a superbowl with two separate teams as a HC and if we are going to get a coach I want one who doesn't have the house stacked against him.

Not to be an a$$, but this seems like a ridiculous reason not to want Gruden. Do you believe that winning a super bowl with one team puts you at a disadvantage to winning with a second? If so why? Or is it just superstition?

The exception:
Weeb Ewbank won the 1958 and 1959 NFL championships with the Colts, and Superbowl III with the Jets. (Yes I understand that isn't two superbowls)

snowspot66
12-02-2010, 05:55 PM
I may be wrong but...

No team ever went 6-0 and missed the playoffs
no team ever had a 3 game lead with 3 games left and lost a division
in 1999, no super bowl team ever went 6-10 the following year!

Those are all negatives. Gruden winning one with us would be a positive.

What about that list of negatives makes you think we would suddenly pull out a positive?

Just say no to Gruden.

orinjkrush
12-02-2010, 05:57 PM
I just heard on the light rail that Gruden has left ESPN, and been hired as a consultant to Josh McDaniels.

that would actually be good news for a CHANGE. :giggle:

Karenin
12-02-2010, 06:02 PM
According to that clown SoCalBronco, he was already lined up to be U of Miami's new head coach. Oops.

Man-Goblin
12-02-2010, 06:11 PM
Not to be an a$$, but this seems like a ridiculous reason not to want Gruden. Do you believe that winning a super bowl with one team puts you at a disadvantage to winning with a second? If so why? Or is it just superstition?

The exception:
Weeb Ewbank won the 1958 and 1959 NFL championships with the Colts, and Superbowl III with the Jets. (Yes I understand that isn't two superbowls)

It's just silly. I've seen this lame argument thrown around here lately and it makes no sense.

The fact is there are only 12 coaches that have won more than one Super Bowl period. So only 12 in almost a half century would have had a chance to win championships in two places.

Also, only 3 head coaches have won more than one Super Bowl with different starting QBs.

The odds are stacked against a coach winning title the second he accepts job, but it's even more unlikely for a coach to have to have two separate tenures with the personnel that can win a Super Bowl.

Garcia Bronco
12-02-2010, 06:16 PM
Oh btw, Don Shula won 3 NFL Championships with two different teams.

Mogulseeker
12-02-2010, 06:56 PM
Anyone see PTI on espn today? They had Jaws on the 5 min segment and one of the questions asked was do you see john gruden coaching again? Jaws immediately replied with yes with out a doubt, saying the coaching is in his blood and he a motivator and a great teacher. He really emphasized the point of gruden going back to the NFL and not NCAA

Just a question, anyone thinking gruden saw what happened with spygate, so he turned the Miami job down thinking the denver job is gonna open up?

Just a question and interesting to see what yall think?

I want McD to get at least one more year, but i think if we did can him, gruden would be attracted to the denver job and tebow (no homo) , at least he would have some deep rooted hate for the gayders


Broncos 4 life !

If McD is fired after another year, Gruden would absolutely be the guy I want coaching this team, especially with Tebow.

broncogary
12-02-2010, 06:57 PM
Obviously a NEWBIE here :rofl:

What happens in Buffalo, stays in Buffalo.

Williams
12-02-2010, 07:09 PM
I cant think of anything that would unite and rally our divided and mostly angry fanbase more than a proven, charismatic coach like Gruden. We're having an unprecedented down year... at least by the standard set in the past few decades of Broncos football, but it cant be denied Denver is among the top tier cities in pro football and the Broncos organization is one of the greatest in sports. If a HC vacancy opens up here, this offseason or next... it would have to be one of Gruden's top choices. Plus, as it's been mentioned many times in this forum... he loves Tebow and could punk the Faid not once, but twice a year.

If we dont win out or at least show vast improvement in these next 5 games, I see Gruden in Denver as a best case realistic scenario.

TheProfessor
12-02-2010, 07:14 PM
If Gruden is available Bowlen better figure out a way to make this happen.

Any chance Gruden would be willing to stay with the 3-4?

Dedhed
12-02-2010, 07:14 PM
I remember watching the MNF game and thinking that Gruden sounded like he was lobbying for the Denver job. He made a ton of comments about what Denver was doing and what he would do differently.

I don't know if that's his MO, but he was not doing the same for SD.

broncosteven
12-02-2010, 07:19 PM
I highly doubt Gruden has Denver on his mind. That said, it would be tough to be upset about a guy with his track record coming in.

Once again we agree.

What a concept, a HC with plenty of experience at multiple SUCCESSFUL Franchises with a SB ring.

Sure he dismantled TB after the SB but it is not a big market and my cousin who lives in Tampa said something about money being a reason why they made some of those personel moves but I don't know how well my cousin follows football.

I would have far less concerns with Gruden coming in than a 1st time HC with little NFL experience. About the only concern I would have with Gruden is if he would be able to build a D that could keep his dink and dunk O in games.

broncogary
12-02-2010, 07:22 PM
Once again we agree.

What a concept, a HC with plenty of experience at multiple SUCCESSFUL Franchises with a SB ring.

Sure he dismantled TB after the SB but it is not a big market and my cousin who lives in Tampa said something about money being a reason why they made some of those personel moves but I don't know how well my cousin follows football.

I would have far less concerns with Gruden coming in than a 1st time HC with little NFL experience. About the only concern I would have with Gruden is if he would be able to build a D that could keep his dink and dunk O in games.

Maybe he can get Jake to come out of retirement this time.

Requiem
12-02-2010, 07:29 PM
John had a good track record in Oakland against divisional rivals. I would like to think he would enjoy going back into a coaching atmosphere where he had some success. I bet he would love the chance to beat the Raiders. If Josh goes, I would be behind getting Gruden no doubt.

Taco John
12-02-2010, 08:18 PM
I'd take Popps as head coach if it meant putting the McDaniels era in the rearview mirror.

Mr
12-02-2010, 08:33 PM
I'd take Popps as head coach if it meant putting the McDaniels era in the rearview mirror.

Absolutely.
Popps or Cowher.

broncswin
12-02-2010, 08:40 PM
I will take him

serious hops
12-02-2010, 08:47 PM
How angry would Al Davis be if Gruden won a Super Bowl in Denver?

LOL

strafen
12-02-2010, 08:54 PM
I cant think of anything that would unite and rally our divided and mostly angry fanbase more than a proven, charismatic coach like Gruden. We're having an unprecedented down year... at least by the standard set in the past few decades of Broncos football, but it cant be denied Denver is among the top tier cities in pro football and the Broncos organization is one of the greatest in sports. If a HC vacancy opens up here, this offseason or next... it would have to be one of Gruden's top choices. Plus, as it's been mentioned many times in this forum... he loves Tebow and could punk the Faid not once, but twice a year.

If we dont win out or at least show vast improvement in these next 5 games, I see Gruden in Denver as a best case realistic scenario.

I agree there and with what you've mostly said.
Good post!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
12-02-2010, 09:00 PM
I want McD to get at least one more year, !


What for it.



Why!?! Why would anybody want that. Let me ask you. Are you really willing to waste another year from Clady, Champ, Royal, Dawkins, and Dumervill?

Sassy
12-02-2010, 09:15 PM
How angry would Al Davis be if Gruden won a Super Bowl in Denver?

LOL

Hmm probably about as pissed as he was when Shanahan won two?

Popps
12-02-2010, 09:28 PM
Once again we agree.

What a concept, a HC with plenty of experience at multiple SUCCESSFUL Franchises with a SB ring.

Sure he dismantled TB after the SB but it is not a big market and my cousin who lives in Tampa said something about money being a reason why they made some of those personel moves but I don't know how well my cousin follows football.

I would have far less concerns with Gruden coming in than a 1st time HC with little NFL experience. About the only concern I would have with Gruden is if he would be able to build a D that could keep his dink and dunk O in games.

And people forget about the offense Gruden put together with Gannon in Oakland. He's had real success with two franchises.

Again, this is purely for conversation. I sort of doubt he wants to coach, and I'm almost positive Bowlen won't want a third coach... and probably an outrageously expensive coach on this payroll.

NUB
12-02-2010, 09:36 PM
If McDaniels is let go, which he damn well should be by this point, I'd put my money on Gruden being the next head coach regardless of the ESPN statements.

HAT
12-02-2010, 09:37 PM
what for it.



why!?! Why would anybody want that. Let me ask you. Are you really willing to waste another year from clady, champ, royal, dawkins, and dumervill?

yes

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
12-02-2010, 09:39 PM
yes

Thank you. at least you're honest. Your not a Broncos fan. You must be a fan of the faid or a chef fan. Which is it?

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 09:50 PM
Gruden would be great, but why would he come work for Pat Bowlen given all the problems and rumors of health and financial issues swirling around him at the moment? If he was looking for an NFL job now, Miami seems more attractive than Denver anyway. I think he's sincere in wanting to stay at ESPN, and I doubt just because he likes Tebow he'd jump at this job purely for that reason alone. The hard cold truth is that Denver is way down the list right now for any NFL coach, and we might have to look to the college ranks if McD gets canned. If that happens, the most logical choice is Urban Meyer by far. As people have pointed out, he might find the NFL to stressful, but I think being at UF is eqaually stressful. Bowlen would at least have continuity in the offense and we wouldn't have to reverse direction with Tebow moving elsewhere.

Taco John
12-02-2010, 09:54 PM
Gruden, Meyer, Nolan, Kubiak


I'd be happy with any of them...

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 10:02 PM
I'd take Popps as head coach if it meant putting the McDaniels era in the rearview mirror.
:giggle:

HAT
12-02-2010, 10:03 PM
Gruden, Meyer, Nolan, Kubiak


I'd be happy with any of them...

Mooch?

Hercules Rockefeller
12-02-2010, 10:07 PM
If that happens, the most logical choice is Urban Meyer by far.

JFC, no he's not. He has absolutely 0 experience at any level in the NFL. He was never a player in the league nor has he been a coach for any NFL team. He is a college coach pure and simple.

Get off this. You were wrong 2 years ago and nothing has changed since then.

HAT
12-02-2010, 10:08 PM
Gruden, Meyer, Nolan, Kubiak


I'd be happy with any of them...

Serious question....What happens when the Broncos finish =/> those Texans?

Still on your knees for Kubs?

strafen
12-02-2010, 10:09 PM
Gruden would be great, but why would he come work for Pat Bowlen given all the problems and rumors of health and financial issues swirling around him at the moment? If he was looking for an NFL job now, Miami seems more attractive than Denver anyway. I think he's sincere in wanting to stay at ESPN, and I doubt just because he likes Tebow he'd jump at this job purely for that reason alone. The hard cold truth is that Denver is way down the list right now for any NFL coach, and we might have to look to the college ranks if McD gets canned. If that happens, the most logical choice is Urban Meyer by far. As people have pointed out, he might find the NFL to stressful, but I think being at UF is eqaually stressful. Bowlen would at least have continuity in the offense and we wouldn't have to reverse direction with Tebow moving elsewhere.

Those are not bad choices at all.
Each one brings their own kind of element to the team.
They both would work well with Tebow. Of course Meyer has the inside advantage, but Gruden will work well with Tebow as well.

Also, if what you've said about Bowlen's state of health and financial issues is true, I wouldn't be surprised Bowlen brought Elway aboard.

He will trust John would be an asset to the operations of the team.

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 10:18 PM
JFC, no he's not. He has absolutely 0 experience at any level in the NFL. He was never a player in the league nor has he been a coach for any NFL team. He is a college coach pure and simple.

Get off this. You were wrong 2 years ago and nothing has changed since then.
Wrong about what? Mostly I've been right...about alot of things most of you ignored till it became obvious.

As for experience in the NFL...

http://www.indusbusinessjournal.com/Media/PublicationsArticle/17AAHOA-Jimmy-Johnson.jpg

You do know that Meyer is essentially the architect of the offense the Patriots used to go 17-0 and the one Josh is using mostly came from him as well...right?

Meyer has been stunningly successful at EVERY stop he's made, turning also ran programs around overnight and Tebow would love having him here. As we all know, having your QB and your coach on the same page might be valuable...right?

Meyer is the smartest most innovative coach in football today, college or pro. I don't care if he's not been in the NFL.

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 10:21 PM
Those are not bad choices at all.
Each one brings their own kind of element to the team.
They both would work well with Tebow. Of course Meyer has the inside advantage, but Gruden will work well with Tebow as well.

Also, if what you've said about Bowlen's state of health and financial issues is true, I wouldn't be surprised Bowlen brought Elway aboard.

He will trust John would be an asset to the operations of the team.
What EXACTLY has John been doing with the Arena League team? I've never heard a real explanation other than he's some kind of executive but John doesn't strike me as a guy at this point in his life who wants to work 18 hour days, nor am I even sure he's want to have that pressure. Success on the field rarely translates into success in the front office or the coaching field...look at Mike Singletary for example. I don't think he's interested, but Rod Smith might be a better choice.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-02-2010, 10:24 PM
Congrats, Jimmy did it. That's the exception, not the norm.

Florida wasn't an also ran program when he took it over, he won his first NC with Zook's recruits.

He's the smartest innovative coach today? They've lost 5 games this season and the only time in the past 5 seasons he's had a recruiting class outside of the Top 5 was '09 when he took a small class. Teams with that much talent shouldn't lose 5 games. Innovation my ass.

If McD gets fired after 2 years, Bowlen's not going to go out and hire a college coach with 0 NFL experience to try to rebuild this franchise.

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 10:34 PM
Congrats, Jimmy did it. That's the exception, not the norm.

Florida wasn't an also ran program when he took it over, he won his first NC with Zook's recruits.

He's the smartest innovative coach today? They've lost 5 games this season and the only time in the past 5 seasons he's had a recruiting class outside of the Top 5 was '09 when he took a small class. Teams with that much talent shouldn't lose 5 games. Innovation my ass.

If McD gets fired after 2 years, Bowlen's not going to go out and hire a college coach with 0 NFL experience to try to rebuild this franchise.
You're obviously unfamiliar with Meyer's career before he came to Florida as well as the innovation it took to create the offense they use. Do some research and get back to me when you know what your'e talking about.

And what was I wrong about two years ago again?

Hercules Rockefeller
12-02-2010, 10:38 PM
You're obviously unfamiliar with Meyer's career before he came to Florida as well as the innovation it took to create the offense they use. Do some research and get back to me when you know what your'e talking about.

And what was I wrong about two years ago again?

Yawn.

Tell me again how the greatest innovator in all of football has lost 5 games this year when there's maybe 2 or 3 teams tops in college football with the top to bottom talent that Florida has.

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 10:43 PM
Yawn.

Tell me again how the greatest innovator in all of football has lost 5 games this year when there's maybe 2 or 3 teams tops in college football with the top to bottom talent that Florida has.
As I said, you're obviously unfamiliar with his career prior to UF, and why his offense is not like any other in football, and why Bill Belicheat wanted to pick his brain...but I guess you know more than him eh? He's won NCAA titles...but I guess losing 5 means he should get fired. Whatever...he fits the bill for what we need, a smart, innovative WINNER who has a great relationship with our future starting QB, and he's won everywhere he's been...dramatically in fact.

What was I wrong about again? You keep ignoring that question but you were so eager with the accusation at first...what's up with that? ???

Hercules Rockefeller
12-02-2010, 11:02 PM
As I said, you're obviously unfamiliar with his career prior to UF, and why his offense is not like any other in football, and why Bill Belicheat wanted to pick his brain...but I guess you know more than him eh? He's won NCAA titles...but I guess losing 5 means he should get fired. Whatever...he fits the bill for what we need, a smart, innovative WINNER who has a great relationship with our future starting QB, and he's won everywhere he's been...dramatically in fact.

What was I wrong about again? You keep ignoring that question but you were so eager with the accusation at first...what's up with that? ???

Yeah, I believe Meyer should be fired because that's what we're discussing right now, his status at Florida. I look forward to your next attempt to avoid answering the question- tell me again why an NFL team would hire a HC with 0 NFL coaching experience? Oh that's right, because he's innovative and a variation of his offense is used in the pros. And he coached Tebow, and coaching a QB in college is obviously the same as it in the pros. How much does Meyer know about NFL defenses again?

You've been wrong about Meyer as a possible HC for this team ever since you starting pimping him for that spot. You brought him up the first time over a year ago, and I believe it's been closer to 2. If the dates are off, BFD. Doesn't change the fact that Meyer would be a terrible hire in the NFL.

Bowlen isn't hiring a coach without any NFL coaching experience if he **** cans Josh after this season. Just like hiring someone who would be the youngest coach in the league, hiring a coach with no NFL coaching experience is an incredibly risky route. If he's afraid of losing fan support, he's not going to take that risk and stand the chance of losing even more support if a 2nd risky hire blows up in his face.

mkporter
12-02-2010, 11:09 PM
What EXACTLY has John been doing with the Arena League team? I've never heard a real explanation other than he's some kind of executive but John doesn't strike me as a guy at this point in his life who wants to work 18 hour days, nor am I even sure he's want to have that pressure. Success on the field rarely translates into success in the front office or the coaching field...look at Mike Singletary for example. I don't think he's interested, but Rod Smith might be a better choice.

John was not "some kind of executive" for the team. He was the executive for the team. As in ran the whole show. And NFL executives don't work 18 hour days. Only the coaches pull that crap. It has been reported several times that he'd be interested in a position with the team, and he's been part of multiple ownership groups looking to buy a team. It should be very obvious that John wants this kind of position.

-Elway was successful on the field, obviously.
-He is a successful businessman, having made a fortune in car dealerships, and runs a successful restaurant business.
-He has experience as owner/executive of a professional football team. The crush were generally successful, and won a championship. John was also elected chairman of the arena league's executive committee.

Success on the field and in the front office aren't necessarily related, but that doesn't mean they are mutually exclusive. Yes, there are plenty of examples of players flaming out as coaches. There are also plenty of examples of non-players flaming out as coaches. It's a tough business.

Ozzie Newsome has done a pretty nice job in Baltimore, and he was a pretty good player, so it's not exactly unprecedented. Furthermore, how can you possibly doubt the Duke? He was Tebow before Tebow was Tebow.

strafen
12-02-2010, 11:12 PM
What EXACTLY has John been doing with the Arena League team? I've never heard a real explanation other than he's some kind of executive but John doesn't strike me as a guy at this point in his life who wants to work 18 hour days, nor am I even sure he's want to have that pressure. Success on the field rarely translates into success in the front office or the coaching field...look at Mike Singletary for example. I don't think he's interested, but Rod Smith might be a better choice.I think you've missed my point.
Elway would be at a high, high level with the organization.
He will be in a different capacity. He could groom as Bowlen's sucessor.
I doubt he'll be mettling with coaches...

Taco John
12-02-2010, 11:13 PM
Serious question....What happens when the Broncos finish =/> those Texans?

Still on your knees for Kubs?

I would take Kubiak over McDaniels period. You don't have to set up elaborate what ifs to answer that question. Kubiak has made some first time coaching mistakes. McDaniels is a moron who gets out-coached by some of the worst coaches in the league out of habit. There's a difference.

Also, Kubiak is one game away from the division leader and is very much in the hunt for a playoff spot. McDaniels lost to Tom Cable.

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 11:14 PM
Yeah, I believe Meyer should be fired because that's what we're discussing right now, his status at Florida.
So...a guy who has won 2 national titles in the last 5 years should be fired for losing 5 games in the ultra competitive SEC one year after losing probably the greatest college QB in history. Good take.
I look forward to your next attempt to avoid answering the question- tell me again whyan NFL team? Oh that's right, because he's innovative and a variation of his offense is used in the pros. And he coached Tebow, and coaching a QB in college is obviously the same as it in the pros.
Eh...I avoided answering the question? Seems you already listed my answers didn't you? Don't like them? Fine...but don't say I didn't answer the question as to why he should be here. Everything you listed is obviously HIGHLY IMPORTANT, especially the fact that he and Tebow get along great...see Dan Reeves with Elway and Shanny with Plummer/Griese, Josh with Cutler...I can find other NFL team examples if that's not enough for you. Now what question was I avoiding again?
You've been wrong about Meyer as a possible HC for this team ever since you starting pimping him for that spot. You brought him up the first time over a year ago, and I believe it's been closer to 2. If the dates are off, BFD. Doesn't change the fact that Meyer would be a terrible hire in the NFL.
Yet other college coaches have had success...the guy in Pittsburgh for example...yet Meyer, despite winning at an almost unprecedented level and winning championships is a "terrible hire". Why is that? Oh right...he's got no NFL experience...what college coach does before he gets here? Idiotic logic on your part. It was two years ago before they hired Josh that I wanted Meyer. Saying I was wrong is obviously only your opinion since we have nothing to gage it on since it hasn't happened. Things are mistakes when they PROVE NOT TO WORK, which takes them actually HAPPENING first. Does that makes sense? Lots of people thought hiring Jimmy Johnson was a mistake too, but I see the same kind of winner in Meyer. So your argument is basically BS.
Bowlen isn't hiring a coach without any NFL coaching experience if he **** cans Josh after this season. Just like hiring someone who would be the youngest coach in the league, hiring a coach with no NFL coaching experience is an incredibly risky route. If he's afraid of losing fan support, he's not going to take that risk and stand the chance of losing even more support if a 2nd risky hire blows up in his face.
I'm pretty sure you don't know what Bowlen would or would not do, but keep thinking you do... :thumbsup:

strafen
12-02-2010, 11:20 PM
I would take Kubiak over McDaniels period. You don't have to set up elaborate what ifs to answer that question. Kubiak has made some first time coaching mistakes. McDaniels is a moron who gets out-coached by some of the worst coaches in the league out of habit. There's a difference.

Also, Kubiak is one game away from the division leader and is very much in the hunt for a playoff spot. McDaniels lost to Tom Cable.You don't allow the raiders and the rams put a combined 95 points on you at HOME!

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 11:33 PM
John was not "some kind of executive" for the team. He was the executive for the team. As in ran the whole show.
The nature of my question was, "what EXACTLY did that mean?" You say he "ran the whole show". How so? All I'm asking is for someone who knows specifically what he did, to post it. Was he the GM? The pro personell director? VP of operations? I've not heard EXACTLY what he did.
And NFL executives don't work 18 hour days. Only the coaches pull that crap.
On this team, and given the looming lockout issues...that could change quickly. My point is, John seems to like the party life, boffing a Raiders cheerleader, making beer commercials, hanging out on the social scene...I don't know what is driving Elway these days, and just because he won on the field doesn't mean he's suitable for the FO...he might be superbly qualified, but I'm posing these questions because people here seem to think he would automatically be successful and there's plenty of evidence that former players who were stars don't always succeed off the field. A better question than is he qualified...is he the MOST qualified? I doubt that....great as he was, lets be honest and admit he'd be learning the ropes from the start. That's all I'm saying...his success is nowhere near automatic just because he's John Elway. Take a look at Michael Jordan's experience here.
It has been reported several times that he'd be interested in a position with the team, and he's been part of multiple ownership groups looking to buy a team. It should be very obvious that John wants this kind of position.
He wants WHAT kind of position? It sounds like ownership interests is what he's interested in...or something in the FO. But does he want to start out as the GM of a team in the toilet that spiraled downward after he left? That's heavy pressure. Does he seem like he would want that? Maybe he would, maybe not...at this point it's all speculation of course.
-Elway was successful on the field, obviously.
-He is a successful businessman, having made a fortune in car dealerships, and runs a successful restaurant business.
Elway bought car dealerships and restaurants. Owning something is not the same as running it. I seriously doubt when you walk into the dealership it's John Elway behind the desk shaking your hand as you sign the paperwork. He traded on his name...in Denver...how could he possibly NOT have been successful here in Denver? I'd be more impressed if he was successful in Cleveland or Kansas City where they hate him...maybe Baltimore? His success (Do we know he was really successful and how do we measure that?) came because of who he was probably more than what he was doing.[/quote]
-He has experience as owner/executive of a professional football team. The crush were generally successful, and won a championship. John was also elected chairman of the arena league's executive committee.
I have a tough time consdering the Arena League a pro league, but I get your point. Again...how do we know how successful he was with the Crush? Since I don't follow them I won't comment on them winning a championship but that's certainly IMO not the same as donig it in the NFL. I'd prefer a guy who has trained in an NFL organization if possible. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see him in the FO, just that maybe the GM spot might not be the place to start off...I say "might"...just posing some questions that ought to be at least asked before everyone goes gaga over John Elway as the new off the field savior...has Bowlen even said he's interested BTW?
Furthermore, how can you possibly doubt the Duke? He was Tebow before Tebow was Tebow.
I wouldn't doubt him behiind center with 2:00 left and the ball on the 10 yard line...bit different here though. IF he was to be the GM, I'd prefer he work at another job for a couple years in the organization like Pro Player Personell Director maybe...I just think your top executive should do something else first.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-02-2010, 11:35 PM
I would take Kubiak over McDaniels period. You don't have to set up elaborate what ifs to answer that question. Kubiak has made some first time coaching mistakes. McDaniels is a moron who gets out-coached by some of the worst coaches in the league out of habit. There's a difference.

Also, Kubiak is one game away from the division leader and is very much in the hunt for a playoff spot. McDaniels lost to Tom Cable.

Shanahan never lost to Tom Cable.

Oh. Wait.

But he never lost to Norv Turner!

Er.

Bronco Yoda
12-02-2010, 11:36 PM
Mooch?

Mooch is too nice of a person. It would really be hard hating on him when he starting losing. ;D

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 11:55 PM
I think you've missed my point.
Elway would be at a high, high level with the organization.
He will be in a different capacity. He could groom as Bowlen's sucessor.
I doubt he'll be mettling with coaches...
The job we're talking about is GM right?

Before talking about Bowlen's successor (is Pat really trying to groom one?) we ought to talk about the ROFR clause that remains a thorny legal issue some future court may have to settle once again. Elway may have seen the problem here when he was first offered stock in the parent shell company Bowlen set up to "own" the Broncos...and he refused several million dollars in stock knowing it would grow in value. Why? Only his lawyers know but it might be that they foresee a future legal mess over Bowlen's next sale of the team. Again though, it seems John is interested in ownership, so who knows where it goes.

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 11:59 PM
I would take Kubiak over McDaniels period. You don't have to set up elaborate what ifs to answer that question. Kubiak has made some first time coaching mistakes. McDaniels is a moron who gets out-coached by some of the worst coaches in the league out of habit. There's a difference.

Also, Kubiak is one game away from the division leader and is very much in the hunt for a playoff spot. McDaniels lost to Tom Cable.
Why would Kubiak want this job? Is he on shaky ground in Houston? Kubiak would bring back the stretch zone blocking scheme...do we want to return to that or move forward seeking a different course?

Popps
12-02-2010, 11:59 PM
Also, Kubiak is one game away from the division leader and is very much in the hunt for a playoff spot. McDaniels lost to Tom Cable.

McDaniels beat Bill B.

But, we don't base career decisions on one game, do we.

Unfortunately, Kubiak has had 5 years to show anything... and hasn't. He's a sub-.500 coach who can't even win his own division, much less anything else.
By the looks of it, his team is preparing for its yearly tank-job, too.

Yea, he's a REAL intriguing prospect.

Taco John
12-03-2010, 12:20 AM
Mooch?

I don't know. I love the guy. He's one of the true good guys of football. But he seems pretty far removed from the front lines at this point. I certainly wouldn't complain about it if he were hired, and I'd be very optimistic, but I have a sense that he's found his groove and isn't hungry for the NFL grind.

TDmvp
12-03-2010, 12:25 AM
McDaniels beat Bill B.



Unfortunately, Kubiak has had 5 years to show anything... and hasn't. He's a sub-.500 coach who can't even win his own division, much less anything else.


Yea, he's a REAL intriguing prospect.




Not defending Kubiak but only 2 teams have ever won that division.

Taco John
12-03-2010, 12:26 AM
McDaniels beat Bill B.

How could I forget?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:RzT0ObplWEJQKM:http://coloradosportsdesk.com/wp/wp-content/josh-mcdaniels-fist-pump.jpg&t=1


But, we don't base career decisions on one game, do we.

No, I like to look at a body of work... Like the last 20.


Unfortunately, Kubiak has had 5 years to show anything... and hasn't. He's a sub-.500 coach who can't even win his own division, much less anything else.
By the looks of it, his team is preparing for its yearly tank-job, too.

Yea, he's a REAL intriguing prospect.

Compared to McDaniels, Kubiak looks like the Coach of the Century.

Taco John
12-03-2010, 12:43 AM
All things considered, I think Kubiak's resume is actually pretty nice. He inherited a 2-14 expansion team and turned them into a team that is contending for the playoffs. The Texans have a strong record in December under Kubiak. Unfortunately, however, Kubes is like 1-9 against the Colts in his time there. In fact, that single win is the Texans only win against the Colts in their franchise history.

I think that it's easy for people to disrespect what Kubiak has actually accomplished with that team. I have my doubts that he'll ever be able to get them over the top in that division the way things are stacked right now, but I don't doubt that Kubiak is a good head coach. I understand that people defending Josh are going to throw their arms out casting stones against other coaches to protect their baby.

I'd be more than happy to have a capable coach like Kubiak head our team. At the very least, he'd know that our division rivals are in the AFC West, not the AFC East. Attention to that kind of thing will take a guy a long ways in this game.

mkporter
12-03-2010, 01:22 AM
The nature of my question was, "what EXACTLY did that mean?" You say he "ran the whole show". How so? All I'm asking is for someone who knows specifically what he did, to post it. Was he the GM? The pro personell director? VP of operations? I've not heard EXACTLY what he did.

John was the CEO of the organization. From what I've read, ran all of the business end of the team: marketing, operations, etc. I'm fairly certain he hired the coaches as well. He has stated that he doesn't get involved in the X's and O's, but he pitches in where he can. My guess is that he didn't have much to do with scouting, player selection, etc, but probably offered advise in the football side where appropriate.


On this team, and given the looming lockout issues...that could change quickly. My point is, John seems to like the party life, boffing a Raiders cheerleader, making beer commercials, hanging out on the social scene...I don't know what is driving Elway these days, and just because he won on the field doesn't mean he's suitable for the FO...he might be superbly qualified, but I'm posing these questions because people here seem to think he would automatically be successful and there's plenty of evidence that former players who were stars don't always succeed off the field. A better question than is he qualified...is he the MOST qualified? I doubt that....great as he was, lets be honest and admit he'd be learning the ropes from the start. That's all I'm saying...his success is nowhere near automatic just because he's John Elway. Take a look at Michael Jordan's experience here.

I'm not sure where you get the impression that John's mostly interested in the party scene. I'm sure he spends plenty of time enjoying the good life, but by all accounts, he's a competitive and driven businessman, who has been successful in several different non-football endeavors. He has also been successful running a professional football team. It wasn't the NFL, but you can't argue that it wasn't relevant experience.


He wants WHAT kind of position? It sounds like ownership interests is what he's interested in...or something in the FO. But does he want to start out as the GM of a team in the toilet that spiraled downward after he left? That's heavy pressure. Does he seem like he would want that? Maybe he would, maybe not...at this point it's all speculation of course.


I'm not sure where you got the idea that people want him to be a GM or something like that. Maybe some do. John's ideal role, IMO, on the team would essentially be the VP of Football Operations, which was one of Shanny's titles, and is unoccupied right now. In this role he would be Josh's boss, and Xander's boss as well. He wouldn't necessarily dictate personnel and schemes, but he would be able to identify and improve upon weaknesses in the football organization (maybe reduce Josh's role, or find appropriate personnel to augment the FO, for instance). Being who he is, of course, it would be criminal not to involve him in the marketing organization as well.


Elway bought car dealerships and restaurants. Owning something is not the same as running it. I seriously doubt when you walk into the dealership it's John Elway behind the desk shaking your hand as you sign the paperwork. He traded on his name...in Denver...how could he possibly NOT have been successful here in Denver? I'd be more impressed if he was successful in Cleveland or Kansas City where they hate him...maybe Baltimore? His success (Do we know he was really successful and how do we measure that?) came because of who he was probably more than what he was doing.

I get what you are going for here, and you have a valid point, to a degree. John Elway Toyota doesn't have the same cachet if he isn't the greatest QB of all time. But there are a lot of super famous athletes that have not been able achieve the same success in the business world. Being famous, and buying a business doesn't guarantee success. You have to buy the right business, hire the right people to run it, and often provide the vision and leadership to make it go. He had failures as well, but he still owns car dealerships in Southern California, which are apparently still doing well. He's not just a pretty, buck toothed face either, he does have an econ degree from Stanford.


I have a tough time consdering the Arena League a pro league, but I get your point. Again...how do we know how successful he was with the Crush? Since I don't follow them I won't comment on them winning a championship but that's certainly IMO not the same as donig it in the NFL. I'd prefer a guy who has trained in an NFL organization if possible. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see him in the FO, just that maybe the GM spot might not be the place to start off...I say "might"...just posing some questions that ought to be at least asked before everyone goes gaga over John Elway as the new off the field savior...has Bowlen even said he's interested BTW?


The Crush were pretty successful. Not super dominant, but pretty good. I agree that isn't as impressive as doing the same thing in the NFL, but I think you have to worry about all of the same things in running an Arena team that you do in running an NFL team, the stakes are just higher.

I don't know that Bowlen has said he'd be interested in hiring him publicly. Elway and Shanny had a falling out, so it hasn't really been a possibility for a long time. Bowlen did, of course, offer John a minority ownership interest years ago. According to Woody, Elway would be very interested in a full time executive position.


I wouldn't doubt him behiind center with 2:00 left and the ball on the 10 yard line...bit different here though. IF he was to be the GM, I'd prefer he work at another job for a couple years in the organization like Pro Player Personell Director maybe...I just think your top executive should do something else first.

I just don't think your top executive needs to be the GM, and I certainly don't think Elway should be the GM, or run the scouting department or anything like that. I think he has a good mix of business and football experience (and football business experience), and he would of course command an awful lot of respect within the organization. The team is rudderless, and lacks a leader and face of the franchise. I think Elway fits that role well, and worst case, he provides a much needed injection of positivity and energy into the organization and the fanbase. This is important whether we can McD, or push through rebuilding with him.

mkporter
12-03-2010, 01:28 AM
All things considered, I think Kubiak's resume is actually pretty nice. He inherited a 2-14 expansion team and turned them into a team that is contending for the playoffs. The Texans have a strong record in December under Kubiak. Unfortunately, however, Kubes is like 1-9 against the Colts in his time there. In fact, that single win is the Texans only win against the Colts in their franchise history.

I think that it's easy for people to disrespect what Kubiak has actually accomplished with that team. I have my doubts that he'll ever be able to get them over the top in that division the way things are stacked right now, but I don't doubt that Kubiak is a good head coach. I understand that people defending Josh are going to throw their arms out casting stones against other coaches to protect their baby.

I'd be more than happy to have a capable coach like Kubiak head our team. At the very least, he'd know that our division rivals are in the AFC West, not the AFC East. Attention to that kind of thing will take a guy a long ways in this game.

I love Kubiak, and wish for him to have all the success in the world, but I don't really see what makes him such a great candidate if we need a new coach this year, besides nostalgia. He took a 2-14 team (7-9 the year before that) and made them mediocre. They've been mediocre for five years now. A decent job for certain, but not particularly impressive either.

footstepsfrom#27
12-03-2010, 02:07 AM
John was the CEO of the organization. From what I've read, ran all of the business end of the team: marketing, operations, etc.
That would certainly fall outside the boundaries of what a CEO normally does, since that position is essentially one that develops and implements strategic vision...ie the course of direction. It would be unusual to find a CEO actually running the show in terms of what happens on the ground in marketing, operations, manufacturing etc...CEO's are usually guys who hire people to do that and report to them.
I'm not sure where you get the impression that John's mostly interested in the party scene. I'm sure he spends plenty of time enjoying the good life, but by all accounts, he's a competitive and driven businessman, who has been successful in several different non-football endeavors. He has also been successful running a professional football team. It wasn't the NFL, but you can't argue that it wasn't relevant experience.
How do we know Elway is driven in business? Seriously, owning business assets like dealerships doesn't indicate much about your interest in competing or how you're driven. I'm just trying to figure out why, other than the fact that he's John Elway...he warrants selection over proven FO people from other teams. I guess the key question is this; if his name wasn't Elway, and his qualifications remained the same, would you consider him the top candidate?

There have been enough citings of John partying around town...not to mention his Raiderette thing...that's the general impression he leaves with me, a guy now living the good life not a workaholic who eats sleeps and breaths the NFL. Assuming his lifestyle remains the same, that would no doubt not be viewed very favorably if the team continued to lose with him at the helm. I'd hate to see his legacy in Denver tainted by him having a job he might not be entirely suited for. I'm not saying he isn't...just that I'm not sure the evidence is there to warrant him being chosen for reasons beyond him being the QB who won Super Bowls here.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that people want him to be a GM or something like that. Maybe some do. John's ideal role, IMO, on the team would essentially be the VP of Football Operations, which was one of Shanny's titles, and is unoccupied right now. In this role he would be Josh's boss, and Xander's boss as well.
As I understand the power structure now, Josh reports to Xanders and Xanders reports to Ellis or Bowlen. Are you saying Bowlen would put Elway between himself and those two? That essentially makes him the top dog in the organization, so whether it's called GM or something else...is he ready for that and does he really want that? I think firing the current caste of characters would be the only way Elway would or should consider a gig here. Elway casts a huge shadow as a lot of QB's here found out, and the same might hold true in the FO. How on earth could an ego like Josh's get along with one like John's? If Elway come in, I don't see how Josh can stay...or Xanders or Ellis either. Some/many/most will say that's reason enough to bring him in but it's not. We can dump the McDaniels team without necessarily having to put John in the office next to Bowlen. I wouldn't hate bringing him in, but I'm not sure it's the panacea alot of people think it is.
I get what you are going for here, and you have a valid point, to a degree. John Elway Toyota doesn't have the same cachet if he isn't the greatest QB of all time. But there are a lot of super famous athletes that have not been able achieve the same success in the business world. Being famous, and buying a business doesn't guarantee success. You have to buy the right business, hire the right people to run it, and often provide the vision and leadership to make it go. He had failures as well, but he still owns car dealerships in Southern California, which are apparently still doing well. He's not just a pretty, buck toothed face either, he does have an econ degree from Stanford.
The Stanford degree does lend some credibility no doubt, but I still think he's basically bought businesses in communities where his name was either worshipped or well respected and just used that to build his rep. If he'd done something that involved more strategic design or planning, more risk or less dirrect public exposure to go along with it, I'd be more impressed with the business aspects. His arena league experience is relevant, but would we hire any other arena leage exec who had achieved success other than Elway? I doubt that. Again...like the car dealerships it mostly seems to come down to who he is, not necessarily what we know for sure he's done or capable of. If he truly has the fire burning, it might be stupid not to hire him because he's so competitive. I'm just unsure if that's the case or not.

chadta
12-03-2010, 04:31 AM
No need to see the pic, I'm WELL aware of it

LOL sorry dood, i heard it on the radio and just had to laugh, we were actually planning a trip over to the little christmas store in amherst saturday, now our trip is up in the air, the kids want to go even more because of the snow.

Ray Finkle
12-03-2010, 05:20 AM
All things considered, I think Kubiak's resume is actually pretty nice. He inherited a 2-14 expansion team and turned them into a team that is contending for the playoffs. The Texans have a strong record in December under Kubiak. Unfortunately, however, Kubes is like 1-9 against the Colts in his time there. In fact, that single win is the Texans only win against the Colts in their franchise history.

I think that it's easy for people to disrespect what Kubiak has actually accomplished with that team. I have my doubts that he'll ever be able to get them over the top in that division the way things are stacked right now, but I don't doubt that Kubiak is a good head coach. I understand that people defending Josh are going to throw their arms out casting stones against other coaches to protect their baby.

I'd be more than happy to have a capable coach like Kubiak head our team. At the very least, he'd know that our division rivals are in the AFC West, not the AFC East. Attention to that kind of thing will take a guy a long ways in this game.

huh? no team even has the same head coach in the West since he left. that is complete crap.

BroncoBuff
12-03-2010, 05:33 AM
Thread title here is quite humorous ... I dunno how good Jaws' source is, but I'm betting Gruden never coaches again.

Elway would be a great GM, president, as long as there are some real front office football people on staff too.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-03-2010, 06:06 AM
All things considered, I think Kubiak's resume is actually pretty nice. He inherited a 2-14 expansion team and turned them into a team that is contending for the playoffs. The Texans have a strong record in December under Kubiak. Unfortunately, however, Kubes is like 1-9 against the Colts in his time there. In fact, that single win is the Texans only win against the Colts in their franchise history.

I think that it's easy for people to disrespect what Kubiak has actually accomplished with that team. I have my doubts that he'll ever be able to get them over the top in that division the way things are stacked right now, but I don't doubt that Kubiak is a good head coach. I understand that people defending Josh are going to throw their arms out casting stones against other coaches to protect their baby.

I'd be more than happy to have a capable coach like Kubiak head our team. At the very least, he'd know that our division rivals are in the AFC West, not the AFC East. Attention to that kind of thing will take a guy a long ways in this game.

Re: the bolded part...

It's not possible that we just don't think Kubiak is all that special as a head coach, huh? It must be that we're just throwing our arms out casting stones to protect our baby, right?

No wonder you don't do anything about the moronic overstatements made by jhns and strafen and the like. You're just as unreasonable as they are.

Nice job. Welcome to the end of any solid football discourse on the Orange Mane.

MileHighMagic
12-03-2010, 06:30 AM
That being said, I dont want anyone who has won a superbowl. No coach has EVER won a superbowl with two separate teams as a HC and if we are going to get a coach I want one who doesn't have the house stacked against him.

Yes because it is an impossibility that he could win another. Hell, he kind of almost did. He lead his Bucs over the Raider team he built in 02. The guy would be perfect for our soft ass organization. He has a name that demands respect and he brings a toughness that would spread throughout. Sadly, I don't think we will land him.

footstepsfrom#27
12-03-2010, 06:36 AM
Thread title here is quite humorous ... I dunno how good Jaws' source is, but I'm betting Gruden never coaches again.

Elway would be a great GM, president, as long as there are some real front office football people on staff too.
Well he's certainly real football people...but the fact that I get what you're saying is an indication of what I've been saying also. Let's turn the question like this, would any other NFL team seek out John as their first choice for a high ranking spot in the FO? Do his qualifications extend that way, or would he just be a feel good hire and window dressing? I want Bowlen to hire the aboslute best people out there, and I'd need a lot more convincing John represents that as a GM or other top spot in the organization at this point in time. Could he become that though? That's an interesting question...one I might say yes to IF he has a true passion for this.

cmhargrove
12-03-2010, 06:36 AM
The only way I think we will see a new HC next year is if we lose big in two of our remaining three divisional games.

If KC blows us up this weekend, and say - the Chargers smash us again at the end of the season, it might be time to move on. Otherwise, I think people need to understand that Bowlen is standing behind his staff for the time being.

All these conversations about new GM's and Head Coaches won't have any steam unles we get rolled out of our division the rest of the season. That's the only way will see a major change with the "uncertain" NFL season in 2011.

Popps
12-03-2010, 08:47 AM
Compared to McDaniels, Kubiak looks like the Coach of the Century.

Yea, Kubiak is so great... he'll be unemployed soon. That usually happens to coaches when things are going well.

By the way, we get that you don't like McDaniels. That's great.

We also get that you're unable to stop living in the past. That's also your own business.

But, none of that affects the rationale of the next coach we should hire... and hiring one with a proven track record of marginal results is a fool's errand.

Again, Wade Phillips has a considerably better pedigree than Kubiak. Should we bring him in? I'm guessing the forum would vote "no" on that one.

Forget it, dude. I'm fine replacing McDaniels if Bowlen sees it as the best idea, but not with some retread with a track record of mediocrity.

There are 20 better coaching options out there for us, I'd guess. Probably more.

Popps
12-03-2010, 08:50 AM
I understand that people defending Josh are going to throw their arms out casting stones against other coaches to protect their baby.
.

Wow, Taco. This has really become your crutch of idiocy.

People can't insult anything without you assuming it's got to do with Josh McDaniels.

This thread is about ANOTHER COACH THAT MANY PEOPLE LIKE.

This thread had NOTHING to do with McDaniels.

It's about Gruden, and I'd be on board with Gruden, personally... as would many.


How did your pea-brain conjure up the notion that this had anything to do with McDaniels?

Fire McDaniels tomorrow... life will go on. The question was, is Gruden waiting for this job?


Hoenstly dude... you're turning into a troll on your own board. No wonder people are fed up.

mkporter
12-03-2010, 11:04 AM
That would certainly fall outside the boundaries of what a CEO normally does, since that position is essentially one that develops and implements strategic vision...ie the course of direction. It would be unusual to find a CEO actually running the show in terms of what happens on the ground in marketing, operations, manufacturing etc...CEO's are usually guys who hire people to do that and report to them.


Perhaps I'm being a little loose in my language. I generally agree with your description of what a CEO does. I didn't intend to imply that John implemented the strategic directive of the organization. A CEO of a small organization like an Arena League team would likely be very involved in the development of marketing strategies, hiring/evaluating the staff in the business and football groups, allocation of resources, etc.. He would not be implementing anything himself, as that would be a poor utilization of his time.



How do we know Elway is driven in business? Seriously, owning business assets like dealerships doesn't indicate much about your interest in competing or how you're driven. I'm just trying to figure out why, other than the fact that he's John Elway...he warrants selection over proven FO people from other teams. I guess the key question is this; if his name wasn't Elway, and his qualifications remained the same, would you consider him the top candidate?


Well, we don't really know anything, but I've read many anecdotal reports of John being very engaged in his business dealings, competitive in his desire, and often surprising the business community with his acumen, when most just expect John Elway, the persona. As far as his desire, in Woody's article last week, he says:


Elway, according to an impeccable source, "would accept an offer to rejoin the Broncos in a full- time executive position."
Elway and Joe Ellis, chief operating officer of the Broncos, did not comment on the possibility Monday, although there appears to be interest on both sides.



There have been enough citings of John partying around town...not to mention his Raiderette thing...that's the general impression he leaves with me, a guy now living the good life not a workaholic who eats sleeps and breaths the NFL. Assuming his lifestyle remains the same, that would no doubt not be viewed very favorably if the team continued to lose with him at the helm. I'd hate to see his legacy in Denver tainted by him having a job he might not be entirely suited for. I'm not saying he isn't...just that I'm not sure the evidence is there to warrant him being chosen for reasons beyond him being the QB who won Super Bowls here.


I can't really speak to your impression of him. He is obviously a high profile figure in Denver, but I'm not sure why marrying a former cheerleader means he's into the party lifestyle. He was the CEO of the Crush for 5-6 years, in a role that you'd have to assume was a fairly full time gig for at least a good portion of the year. Add that to the endorsements, his other businesses, and even if he wasn't very involved with some of them, that is a pretty full schedule. If he doesn't want the job and the kind of responsibilities that it entails to be an executive, then he shouldn't take a position, but it seems silly for us to make that judgment.

As I understand the power structure now, Josh reports to Xanders and Xanders reports to Ellis or Bowlen. Are you saying Bowlen would put Elway between himself and those two? That essentially makes him the top dog in the organization, so whether it's called GM or something else...is he ready for that and does he really want that? I think firing the current caste of characters would be the only way Elway would or should consider a gig here. Elway casts a huge shadow as a lot of QB's here found out, and the same might hold true in the FO. How on earth could an ego like Josh's get along with one like John's? If Elway come in, I don't see how Josh can stay...or Xanders or Ellis either. Some/many/most will say that's reason enough to bring him in but it's not. We can dump the McDaniels team without necessarily having to put John in the office next to Bowlen. I wouldn't hate bringing him in, but I'm not sure it's the panacea alot of people think it is.


My impression of the organization is that McD and Xanders are essentially equals and both report to Ellis. Bowlen of course, has a direct line to everyone. Every time he's been asked about final authority, McD says that he and Xanders come to an agreement on all of the personnel decisions, so this supports the "equals" theory. When Shanny was here, he had the title of VP of Football Operations, or something like that. This gave him authority over the entirety of the football operation, GM included. There is no longer anyone with this title, and it seems that Ellis fills this role. Ellis doesn't really strike me as a football guy, and it seems that he probably has a lot else on his plate beside the football operations, given that he is the COO of the organization. I think the Broncos need someone in this role full time, particularly with a first-time head coach. I would be very surprised if Josh or Xanders would have an issue with Elway in this role. I think Josh in particular would welcome it. He is supremely confident in his abilities, but I don't think he is power-hungry per-se. Ellis may have an issue with it, but I doubt he'd throw a fit, and I'm not sure how much it matters if he does.

The big question is whether or not John is the right guy for the job. If he wasn't John Elway, he likely would not be so highly considered, although I still think his anonymous, unembellished resume looks pretty decent, even assuming he had little role in the businesses he owned:
-6 years CEO of a relatively successful professional minor league football team.
-16 years as a highly successful member of a winning football team, outstanding leadership characteristics, and detailed knowledge of complex football schemes.
-Successful spokesman for multi-million dollar businesses.

Not too bad. Now lets add back in what being "John Elway" brings to the table:
-High level of respect within football circles, revered in Denver's organization.
-Most popular public figure in target market for the past 20 years.

Also not mentioned, and relevant I think, is the fact that he grew up with football. He and his dad were obviously very close, and it is my belief that John learned a lot about coaching/player evaluation from his dad as well. I've seen mention of this from time to time, and while it doesn't necessary make him an expert in these areas, it rounds out his knowledge set and would help inform him on the kind of decisions/suggestions a football executive has to make.

This is really for Bowlen/Ellis to determine and evaluate, but I think John would be an excellent addition to the executive staff of the Broncos. I would be disappointed if they don't at least seriously consider it.



The Stanford degree does lend some credibility no doubt, but I still think he's basically bought businesses in communities where his name was either worshipped or well respected and just used that to build his rep. If he'd done something that involved more strategic design or planning, more risk or less dirrect public exposure to go along with it, I'd be more impressed with the business aspects. His arena league experience is relevant, but would we hire any other arena leage exec who had achieved success other than Elway? I doubt that. Again...like the car dealerships it mostly seems to come down to who he is, not necessarily what we know for sure he's done or capable of. If he truly has the fire burning, it might be stupid not to hire him because he's so competitive. I'm just unsure if that's the case or not.

That's a fair take, we don't really have a lot of visibility into what role he has in his business dealings. My impression of him, is that he is very driven and he wants back into the organization. The fact of the matter is that John is a very unique case, and I think you have to treat him as such. Being "John Elway" can be a huge asset in helping out the team. He certainly has to back it up with some ability, but I think you get a lot more effectiveness out of "John Elway" + "John Elway's Experience" than you do out of just "John Elway's Experience."

Dukes
12-03-2010, 11:06 AM
Again, Wade Phillips has a considerably better pedigree than Kubiak. Should we bring him in? I'm guessing the forum would vote "no" on that one.

He'd be the first guy I want as a DC

Man-Goblin
12-03-2010, 11:07 AM
LOL @ the Kubiak campaign.

Rabb
12-03-2010, 11:14 AM
I love Kubiak, and wish for him to have all the success in the world, but I don't really see what makes him such a great candidate if we need a new coach this year, besides nostalgia. He took a 2-14 team (7-9 the year before that) and made them mediocre. They've been mediocre for five years now. A decent job for certain, but not particularly impressive either.

agreed

HAT
12-03-2010, 11:24 AM
LOL @ the Kubiak campaign.

No kidding...Taco sees a 'playoff contender' when in reality they are in the AFCS basement and have a very real chance to finish with a record no better than Denver's.

I like Kubs so I hope he turns it around or lands on his feet somewhere, but:

Do not want.

Popps
12-03-2010, 11:29 AM
Forum Poster: I like eating ice cream better than cat poop.

Taco: WHAT!? Cat poop is almost a delicacy!

Forum Poster: No it's not.

Taco: Yea, sure... you're just saying you won't eat cat poop because you like Josh McDaniels.

Forum Poster: Ummm...... whaaaaaaa?

Bronco Yoda
12-03-2010, 11:27 PM
I like Chucky. I would sign off on this. Where do I sign?

UberBroncoMan
12-04-2010, 05:56 PM
He'd get Tim Tebow, revenge against the Raiders twice a year, a good place to live, and a storied franchise with a history of winning. I don't think he'd mind that.

Homer Simpson
12-04-2010, 06:24 PM
I like Chucky. I would sign off on this. Where do I sign?

Drive down to Invesco tonight, there is a sheet at the front desk.