PDA

View Full Version : What turns this mess around?


Mountain Bronco
12-01-2010, 01:32 PM
Back to football talk instead of this feel good kombaya.

Ok, so I think all of us can agree we suck this year, but what do you think are the key points to getting this turned around?


A couple of key elements to me are:

1. A competent GM with control over that aspect of the organization (not the head coach with contol). Look at KC's organization right now. It is functioning well. Xanders probably has to go.
2. A competent coach. I go back and forth on firing McDaniels. Part of me says he has some great coaching moments, so if he focused on that could he be a good head coach? Part of me looks at his lack of adjustments and attention to the Defense and says this guy sucks and is an OC. Can't decide. His player acquisitions, drafting etc.. is very suspect and I am not talking about Cutler and Marshal, so at the very least he has to lose those powers to a new GM and if he can't deal with that see ya later.
3. A competent D Cordinator. Again, it is hard to evaluate wink with the injuries and simple overall lack of talent on that side of the ball, but I don't see any cohesive stategy defining characteristic etc... to his defense except suck.
4. Accumulation of talent and a 2 year plan to get there. It seems that all of Xanders/McD's plans/decisions have been made with no particular vision for the future. Why pick up Quinn if you are going after Tebow, why trade a first for Smith, etc... Why change D-Coridnators without a clear vision of what you want. This will only come from a competent leader (GM).
5. Bowlen to make up his freaking mind. Dude seems out of it lately. His statements are all over the place and frankly pretty incoherent at times. Hope it isn't a mental thing with age.


Basically in typing this out what I can say is a competent GM with power and a plan needs to be brought in asap. Without that we are floating in never never land.

colonelbeef
12-01-2010, 01:34 PM
What mess?

-Poops

bronco militia
12-01-2010, 01:34 PM
josh can fix this by winning.....end thread

Spider
12-01-2010, 01:36 PM
we need some players like James Harrison,and a Hines ward on offense ..... got to learn to win the one on one battles . These guys are dirty , but they win

go_broncos
12-01-2010, 01:38 PM
The mess will end once we fire Mcd..

enjolras
12-01-2010, 01:38 PM
Again, I keep being told that the McDaniels drafts have been a disaster. Back that up, particularly the 2010 draft. I can't remember a more solid draft than the one we just had.

colonelbeef
12-01-2010, 01:39 PM
Again, I keep being told that the McDaniels drafts have been a disaster. Back that up, particularly the 2010 draft. I can't remember a more solid draft than the one we just had.

Really?

you can't see how the picks were mismanaged?

go_broncos
12-01-2010, 01:40 PM
Again, I keep being told that the McDaniels drafts have been a disaster. Back that up, particularly the 2010 draft. I can't remember a more solid draft than the one we just had.

I am not surprised that you see that way.

Old Dude
12-01-2010, 01:45 PM
This year, not too much.

Long term:

1. A good draft with a little luck in later rounds.
2. Signing free agents who work out for us. (And you often never know)
3. Injured people heal.
4. Fewer injuries next year.
5. Lots of reps in the off-season.
6. Having a season next year at all.
7. Other teams having bad luck at the right time, making bad signings and picks, and having key injuries.

Cause it's all relative.

Popps
12-01-2010, 01:46 PM
we need some players like James Harrison,and a Hines ward on offense ..... got to learn to win the one on one battles . These guys are dirty , but they win

Minus the illegal hits, I agree completely.

Our defense just doesn't have a hammer. There's just no one to fear out there, and while I love Dawkins and he's doing the best job of leading he can... the torch has to be passed.

This is an issue for the off-season, but we really do need some aggressive, impact players on defense.

Mays is a nice start.

DrFate
12-01-2010, 01:50 PM
Again, I keep being told that the McDaniels drafts have been a disaster. Back that up, particularly the 2010 draft. I can't remember a more solid draft than the one we just had.

It is hard to remember all the way back to 2006...

Rnd Name College Note
1 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt
2 Tony Scheffler Western Michigan
4 Brandon Marshall Central Florida
4 Elvis Dumervil Louisville
4 Domenik Hixon Akron
5 Chris Kuper North Dakota
6 Greg Eslinger Minnesota


I realize there is a ton of hate on these guys now, but they are some pretty productive players.

Trading a 2, 3, and 4 for Tebow will either be a stroke of genius or a disaster.

PRBronco
12-01-2010, 01:51 PM
Have to admit I'm envious of the way Mike Holmgren cut back on Eric Mangini's suck. You hardly hear about him at all any more, and they embarrass themselves much less often. It would be good to have a "csar" brought in to help out McD/be a GM.

Rohirrim
12-01-2010, 01:53 PM
Old Dude hit the main themes.

A. A healthy Doom returns.

B. A good draft/FA that brings in a disruptive pass rusher, a solid safety, more help on the Dline (NT and/or DE) and LB, an improvement at TE, and a solid backup at RT.

C. Another year under the belt for this young Oline.

D. No injuries.

Dr. Broncenstein
12-01-2010, 01:54 PM
Win some games.

bendog
12-01-2010, 01:56 PM
It is hard to remember all the way back to 2006...

Rnd Name College Note
1 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt
2 Tony Scheffler Western Michigan
4 Brandon Marshall Central Florida
4 Elvis Dumervil Louisville
4 Domenik Hixon Akron
5 Chris Kuper North Dakota
6 Greg Eslinger Minnesota


I realize there is a ton of hate on these guys now, but they are some pretty productive players.

Trading a 2, 3, and 4 for Tebow will either be a stroke of genius or a disaster.
yeah, Tebow will make or break that draft. I'm ok with the gamble, though I liked Freeman more if McD wanted to switch qbs, and if we miss a chance for Mallet this year, and Tebow is Tebust this may go down with the Steve Tensi trade.

cutthemdown
12-01-2010, 02:00 PM
We do suck but we have to give it one more year. We will get some high picks this year and I think Mcdaniels will be the one making them. He may get fired and if he does then i will try and get excited for the new coach. But even if he stays I will still be excited to see who we add in the draft.

A couple of contributing players to the front 7 in the draft, maybe a safety and a TE in FA, Doom comes back, Ayers gets better, Champ decides to stay and this defense could start to improve.

We have the offense minus a running game which could improve just because our oline is healthy for a whole offseason together.

Let's not discount the effect that Clady, Harris, Kuper all missing big chunks of practice time, workouts etc etc had.

To fix this mess we keep trying to find better players. IMO Lloyd a better WR then Marshall because Marshall is a pain in the ass. So having a good number 1, and 2 2nd round picks seems like it could work out. Losing Cutler was probably a mistake and it set the coach back. It forced him to look for qbs which is what brought the Hillis trade.

But he's young so I think give him that 3rd yr to make up for it. Then if he continues to spin out wheels look to make a move.

I do think we should hire Wade Phillips to coach our defense. He would be loads better then what we have. Plus he has a coaching tree of asst to call on because he's been in NFL for yrs and yrs.

DBroncos4life
12-01-2010, 02:03 PM
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/2899/backtothefuture.jpg (http://img830.imageshack.us/i/backtothefuture.jpg/)

bendog
12-01-2010, 02:05 PM
I will be very surprised if Bowlen makes ANY coaching/FO changes before the labor issue is resolved, except that I expect there to be a Soviet Style Purge of the asst coaches this offseason. IF the fans openly revolt and refuse to renew, maybe. But he needs to build enthusiasm to sell the tix. After the season is over, then there's the draft even with a lockout. And that always gives rise to hopes. He can get Klis to write sloppy love balads about how brilliantly Tebow is coming along, esp if there are no games and no league sanctioned workouts.

frerottenextelway
12-01-2010, 02:10 PM
This will clean up any mess.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dlAF3C8MtQU/Safrs-X5V8I/AAAAAAAAAh0/5PQaq9ZfEd0/s400/shamwow.jpg

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-01-2010, 02:11 PM
These people will do anything to defend McDaniels, even if they don't defend McDaniels, they're still defending McDaniels.

-privatebeef

colonelbeef
12-01-2010, 02:13 PM
It is hard to remember all the way back to 2006...

Rnd Name College Note
1 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt
2 Tony Scheffler Western Michigan
4 Brandon Marshall Central Florida
4 Elvis Dumervil Louisville
4 Domenik Hixon Akron
5 Chris Kuper North Dakota
6 Greg Eslinger Minnesota


I realize there is a ton of hate on these guys now, but they are some pretty productive players.

Trading a 2, 3, and 4 for Tebow will either be a stroke of genius or a disaster.

What an incredibly productive draft.

Pony Boy
12-01-2010, 02:14 PM
McDaniels has done a great job to to position us in this year’s draft, you got to give him credit for that. If he keeps up the good work we just might get the first pick........keep your fingers crossed that we don't have a collapse and win too many game down the stretch.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-01-2010, 02:26 PM
It is hard to remember all the way back to 2006...

Rnd Name College Note
1 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt
2 Tony Scheffler Western Michigan
4 Brandon Marshall Central Florida
4 Elvis Dumervil Louisville
4 Domenik Hixon Akron
5 Chris Kuper North Dakota
6 Greg Eslinger Minnesota


I realize there is a ton of hate on these guys now, but they are some pretty productive players.

Trading a 2, 3, and 4 for Tebow will either be a stroke of genius or a disaster.

The picks used to get tebow were manufactured only like an hour earlier by trading out of their original spot. Why are people so angered by this? Its nonsensical.

worm
12-01-2010, 02:27 PM
In addition to some of the points above, I would like to see an infusion of more speed.

This last draft, both Ford with the Raiders and McCluster with the Chiefs (along with Sproles re-upping with the Chargers) have improved our rivals overall speed and added difference makers to their special teams.

When do we get ours?

Inkana7
12-01-2010, 02:28 PM
I think the answer is pretty obvious. This team has two main issues. Inexperience and lack of talent. The games that we've been close in we've lost due to miscues, mostly on offense. Penalties and poor Red Zone execution are more or less the result of inexperience and/or youth than anything else. We have a young offensive line. Very young. How many other teams are starting two rookie OL? Combine that with the fact that they've all been banged up at one point, and it's not hard to see why they've struggled so much in the penalty and execution area compared to the last two years.

I actually kind of like the talent we have on the O-Line right now. Walton has his moments, but he's shaky in my eyes. He and Harris are the only two that I can see us ridding ourselves of. But both do have talent. Hopefully Harris rids himself of the injury bug and Walton progresses. They just need time, if they can overcome those two issues. Clady, Kuper and Beadles all look solid, if also in need of time to heal/come together.

Defensively...ack. Most of the flak that McDaniels gets on this board comes from the offensive moves he's made, but the most glaring issues this team has are all on defense. They're ****ing awful.

Now, injuries have a big part in this. Dumervil's mere presence last year gave us at least some semblance of a pass rush. He just made clutch play after clutch play. I don't know what impact he'd have on *this* team, but he'd improve it no doubt. Our biggest issue against Bradford was the pass rush. We shut Steven Jackson down, but never ever got close to touching Sam Bradford. Hunter's made some plays, but I don't think he should be on the field that much in a truly talented NFL defense. Same goes for Haggan. A tandem of Ayers-Dumervil would be in the best interest of this team. Pre-injury, the argument could be made that Ayers was our best defender, and he (and Orton) arguably won the Titans game for us, shutting down CJ. I hope his pass rush skills progress, because he's an admirable run stopper.

On the inside, I like Mays a lot. He makes plays against the run and gives us a real physical presence. D.J...jury's still out. For every play he makes he gives one up, and that seems to be the story of his career. I think if we ever want to have a truly good defense, we might have to look at investing a 1st-3rd round pick in an ILB.

The secondary moving forward is going to be a mess. Dawkins has played like **** this season. He's cost us more than a few TDs, and although I love his leadership, if he can't play any more, he has to go. Champ is clearly not the Champ of old, although he's still better than 80-90% of the corners in the NFL. Cox and Thompson have both made plays, but they're still rookies and have also made a ton of mistakes. Goodman hasn't even seen the field. Hill is what he always has been. A guy who can tackle and kind of cover. He's replaceable. As bad as the pass rush has been, our secondary hasn't helped by giving up a lot of timely plays (3rd downs, mostly. We're an awful 3rd down defense, which is where Doom thrived last season). Can McBath or Burton come in and fix any of this? I'm doubtful. Burton is a great STs player, but I doubt his coverage abilities, and McBath, who I love as a player, can't stay healthy with that forearm.

Up front we're hot and cold. McBean/Vickerson aren't getting it done. They need to be replaced. Bannan and Williams have good plays and bad. I honestly haven't noticed much of a difference between Williams this season and Fields last. Really the only bright spot on the D-Line this season has been Thomas, who seems to finally have made some progress and has made a few plays. Lots of talent is needed here. Lots.

I would love to hire a new GM to try and make fix these problems. However, I don't know if we're going to ever do this. I'm fairly satisfied with this past draft, especially if Tebow turns out to be as awesome as we all hope he does.

What is clear, no matter what happens, is that major additions are needed on defense. Pass rusher, D-Line, Safety, Corner, and ILB should all be added to and strengthened.

This team does some good things and it does a lot of bad things. It's clearly a team lacking in premier talent, and this goes back to the latter Shanny days. On offense, I'd like to see what it can do if everyone can stay healthy for once and some cohesion among the line is achieved. On defense, nothing can really be said about coaching changes there until the coaches actually have some young talent to work with. A frigging pass rush would be a fantastic addition to this team.

bendog
12-01-2010, 02:28 PM
The picks used to get tebow were manufactured only like an hour earlier by trading out of their original spot. Why are people so angered by this? Its nonsensical.

No one is angry. Picks aren't 'manufactured.' Teams give up value for picks. If Tebow is Ben Rapesburger but without the rape, it'll have been a great, great draft. If not, McD will be working as a videotaping guy for NE.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-01-2010, 02:46 PM
No one is angry. Picks aren't 'manufactured.' Teams give up value for picks. If Tebow is Ben Rapesburger but without the rape, it'll have been a great, great draft. If not, McD will be working as a videotaping guy for NE.

Of course they were manufactured. Though I have zero proof, i have a feeling Demaryius Thomas and Sean Weatherspoon were guys they wanted all along and felt he could pick up picks and still get one of the guys they desired. People act like we had those extra picks allllll along and we traded away half the draft for Tebow.

DrFate
12-01-2010, 02:50 PM
Of course they were manufactured.

Can you tell me what this even means? Does McDaniels have a printing press or something and just churns out draft picks?

The Broncos received the pick from the Baltimore Ravens for draft picks in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds of the 2010 NFL Draft. (wikipedia)

Durango
12-01-2010, 02:50 PM
I think the answer is pretty obvious. This team has two main issues. Inexperience and lack of talent..

Exactly right, in the coaching ranks AND the player roster. Look, if Bowlen wants to give McDaniels another year, I can live with that, and I'm sure a lot of Bronco fans can grin and bear it as long as the assistants are purged. The O-line and Special Teams coaching seem especially awful on this team, although the RBs coach should be sending out resumes as well.

The draft is rarely the panacea some people seem to think it is (see Detroit, Cincinnati, Buffalo, on and on), but, you're right, there is a lack of premium talent on this roster, and of course luck plays a part, especially with injuries.

Inkana7
12-01-2010, 02:54 PM
Exactly right, in the coaching ranks AND the player roster. Look, if Bowlen wants to give McDaniels another year, I can live with that, and I'm sure a lot of Bronco fans can grin and bear it as long as the assistants are purged. The O-line and Special Teams coaching seem especially awful on this team, although the RBs coach should be sending out resumes as well.

The draft is rarely the panacea some people seem to think it is (see Detroit, Cincinnati, Buffalo, on and on), but, you're right, there is a lack of premium talent on this roster, and of course luck plays a part, especially with injuries.

This roster has undergone a TON of turnover in the past 2 offseasons. It's going to take a while for us to get our depth to the point where we can compete consistently. I really don't think that a drastic changing of coaches, systems, personnel will do any good in the one stat that fans want to see the most of: wins. We do that and we're right back where we were right after Shanny was fired. And the cycle will continue. We'll be the Raiders.

WolfpackGuy
12-01-2010, 02:55 PM
The Tebow trade was a trade you POSSIBLY make if you're one or two players away.

The Ravens whored Denver on that one.

Inkana7
12-01-2010, 02:57 PM
The Tebow trade was a trade you POSSIBLY make if you're one or two players away.

The Ravens whored Denver on that one.

Now why do you say that?

Durango
12-01-2010, 03:01 PM
This roster has undergone a TON of turnover in the past 2 offseasons. It's going to take a while for us to get our depth to the point where we can compete consistently. I really don't think that a drastic changing of coaches, systems, personnel will do any good in the one stat that fans want to see the most of: wins. We do that and we're right back where we were right after Shanny was fired. And the cycle will continue. We'll be the Raiders.


When the ST and O-line position coaching is as God awful as it appears to be, 'turnover' becomes as essential as adding talent.

DrFate
12-01-2010, 03:03 PM
Now why do you say that?

Because if you are close a single player can put you over the top. If you aren't close, a number of good players will typically get you further than a single player.

If Tebow becomes a star, no one will remember the price paid to get him.

bendog
12-01-2010, 03:08 PM
Can you tell me what this even means? Does McDaniels have a printing press or something and just churns out draft picks?

The Broncos received the pick from the Baltimore Ravens for draft picks in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds of the 2010 NFL Draft. (wikipedia)

It's maybe a macroeconomic thing like "QE2"? (-:

Seriously, its sad how sergio kindle got injured, but lamarr houston would look good. Time will tell on Dickson and pitna ... and tebow.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d817b4621&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

epa86b@netzero
12-01-2010, 03:32 PM
Folks, we are a bad to average team.

During this last past offseason, the DEN FO decided to change the offensive into the coach's image. (2 in the treaches, QB, WR)

While on defensive, they used the bandaid methology on the defensive side by signing complementary players to Dumervil with the exception of J. Green who should have been a pass rusher. Well, 1. Green was a bust, 2. Dumervil got hurt, 3. Ayers got hurt; thus, the offseason planned top 3 pass rushers were providing nothing on the field for good reason. The 4th best pass option was Mario that hurt to write. Side note: Against the Rams, did anyone notice the swing move that Vaugh put on the OL player to pressure the QB it was amazing?

So, BIG IF McD returns, I would expect at least 2-3 high picks & possibly 1 significant FA signing to address the DEF front 7.

McD does not seem to have a problem starting the right rookies in the treaches.

I prefer to keep McD 1 more yr but I would not cry if we let him go. However, I would really be confused by the FO actions and wonder what their long term plan "is" or "was".

If you want McD gone, there is only one way to get it done. It means to abandon your team by not going to games. I am not in DEN but I would not take that action.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-01-2010, 03:48 PM
Can you tell me what this even means? Does McDaniels have a printing press or something and just churns out draft picks?

The Broncos received the pick from the Baltimore Ravens for draft picks in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds of the 2010 NFL Draft. (wikipedia)

Sure...going into the draft we had a certain amount of draft picks. Obviously, the broncos had a plan from THE BEGINNING. The plan was to draft Tim Tebow and Demaryius Thomas (or weatherspoon...if you think this was a spur of the moment decision, you are mistaken). So essentially, he took his original first round pick (knowing he could get thomas, tebow, and weatherspoon lower) chopped it up into a few pieces (1st, 2 3rds, and a 4th), added a little of what they originally had (a 2nd) and reformed it into the form of two late first rounders. It wasnt as if they originally selected Thomas at 11 and then mortgaged the rest of the draft to get tebow. He manufactured those extra picks to fit with his original plan (which essentially was flipping a 2nd rounder for a 1st to draft Tebow). It was actually really nice work on McD's part, regardless what you think of the picks.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-01-2010, 03:49 PM
Folks, we are a bad to average team.

During this last past offseason, the DEN FO decided to change the offensive into the coach's image. (2 in the treaches, QB, WR)

While on defensive, they used the bandaid methology on the defensive side by signing complementary players to Dumervil with the exception of J. Green who should have been a pass rusher. Well, 1. Green was a bust, 2. Dumervil got hurt, 3. Ayers got hurt; thus, the offseason planned top 3 pass rushers were providing nothing on the field for good reason. The 4th best pass option was Mario that hurt to write. Side note: Against the Rams, did anyone notice the swing move that Vaugh put on the OL player to pressure the QB it was amazing?

So, BIG IF McD returns, I would expect at least 2-3 high picks & possibly 1 significant FA signing to address the DEF front 7.

McD does not seem to have a problem starting the right rookies in the treaches.

I prefer to keep McD 1 more yr but I would not cry if we let him go. However, I would really be confused by the FO actions and wonder what their long term plan "is" or "was".

If you want McD gone, there is only one way to get it done. It means to abandon your team by not going to games. I am not in DEN but I would not take that action.

Green wasn't really ever meant to be a pass rusher

Old Dude
12-01-2010, 03:57 PM
...
While on defensive, they used the bandaid methology on the defensive side by signing complementary players to Dumervil with the exception of J. Green who should have been a pass rusher. Well, 1. Green was a bust, 2. Dumervil got hurt, 3. Ayers got hurt; thus, the offseason planned top 3 pass rushers were providing nothing on the field for good reason. The 4th best pass option was Mario that hurt to write. Side note: Against the Rams, did anyone notice the swing move that Vaugh put on the OL player to pressure the QB it was amazing?

So, BIG IF McD returns, I would expect at least 2-3 high picks & possibly 1 significant FA signing to address the DEF front 7.

McD does not seem to have a problem starting the right rookies in the treaches.

....

I think that the methology in our treaches leaves a lot to be desired.

epa86b@netzero
12-01-2010, 04:15 PM
I think that the methology in our treaches leaves a lot to be desired.

At this point, it is much easier to come to that conclusion but "it is what it is".

I always thought Green was going to be a 3rd down DE because that is exactly how he was used in NE. I guess I could be wrong but I don't think so...

Old Dude
12-01-2010, 04:33 PM
On a more serious note, Dan Reeves had a good point not so long ago. To paraphrase it, the best players turn their game up a notch in the face of adversity. The next few games will give us an idea who those guys are on this team.

So far, I'm seeing something special out of Joe Mays. Eddie Royal is also starting to turn it on. And Bannon to some extent.

Anyone else?

Dr. Broncenstein
12-01-2010, 04:57 PM
On a more serious note, Dan Reeves had a good point not so long ago. To paraphrase it, the best players turn their game up a notch in the face of adversity. The next few games will give us an idea who those guys are on this team.

So far, I'm seeing something special out of Joe Mays. Eddie Royal is also starting to turn it on. And Bannon to some extent.

Anyone else?

Tebow in the redzone.

broncosteven
12-01-2010, 05:24 PM
A GM who has a track record of good talent eval and won't allow mCd to fall in love with picks a couple days before drafts.

An NFL experienced OL coach who can maximize and develop our talent on the OL.

An NFL experienced DC who runs the D and knows the 3-4 inside and out.

A solid Draft of NT, DE, OL depth, and Safety's.

Staying with what they work on in TC, do not let things you cannot control take them out of their gameplans or player development.

Learning that in game adjustments are neccessary and learning how to execute them.

snowspot66
12-01-2010, 05:34 PM
Tebow in the redzone.

We've gone from horrible in the red zone to damn near perfect in the red zone these past few weeks. Even without Tebow in there. That has to be a good sign.

NFLBRONCO
12-01-2010, 09:11 PM
The Tebow trade was a trade you POSSIBLY make if you're one or two players away.

The Ravens whored Denver on that one.

You could see this trade a mile away. I agree with you 100% on Tebow trade and why I was mad on draft night.

Taco John
12-01-2010, 09:25 PM
On a more serious note, Dan Reeves had a good point not so long ago. To paraphrase it, the best players turn their game up a notch in the face of adversity. The next few games will give us an idea who those guys are on this team.

So far, I'm seeing something special out of Joe Mays. Eddie Royal is also starting to turn it on. And Bannon to some extent.

Anyone else?

Lloyd, and yes, Orton

Broncojef
12-01-2010, 09:43 PM
The Tebow trade was a trade you POSSIBLY make if you're one or two players away.

The Ravens whored Denver on that one.

Totally agree. The draft was going great until the Tebow move. He was a luxury we just couldn't afford. It was really just another blunder that fits in nicely with the other issues this organiztion has positioned itself in. Up until Tebow we were in-line to have had a historic draft.

misturanderson
12-01-2010, 10:27 PM
Totally agree. The draft was going great until the Tebow move. He was a luxury we just couldn't afford. It was really just another blunder that fits in nicely with the other issues this organiztion has positioned itself in. Up until Tebow we were in-line to have had a historic draft.

Unfortunately you may be right, but we almost certainly won't know for at least 2 more years if those picks would have been better utilized elsewhere.

It's hard to bet against a guy that was by all accounts top 3 if not THE best college football player of all time. Now we just have to wait and see if it can translate into the NFL.

bronco militia
12-01-2010, 10:46 PM
You could see this trade a mile away. I agree with you 100% on Tebow trade and why I was mad on draft night.

bull crap....kyle orton and brady quinn were the reasons tim tebow was drafted

HAT
12-01-2010, 11:12 PM
bull crap....kyle orton and brady quinn were the reasons tim tebow was drafted

Finally....Someone else realizes that Quinn was the needed safety net that allowed the Tebow luxury pick.

HIllis, as a Bronco = back up RB

Quinn (before Tebow) = back up QB

Back up QB > Back up RB.

footstepsfrom#27
12-02-2010, 01:11 AM
Totally agree. The draft was going great until the Tebow move. He was a luxury we just couldn't afford. It was really just another blunder that fits in nicely with the other issues this organiztion has positioned itself in. Up until Tebow we were in-line to have had a historic draft.
Oh please...how is Tebow a blunder when he's not yet been given his shot on the field? ???

Rausch 2.0
12-02-2010, 07:52 AM
Oh please...how is Tebow a blunder when he's not yet been given his shot on the field? ???

Outside of 4th quarter in a blowout win/loss I don't see why he should be on the field...

WolfpackGuy
12-02-2010, 07:55 AM
Finally....Someone else realizes that Quinn was the needed safety net that allowed the Tebow luxury pick.

HIllis, as a Bronco = back up RB

Quinn (before Tebow) = back up QB

Back up QB > Back up RB.

:spit:

Rohirrim
12-02-2010, 07:59 AM
bull crap....kyle orton and brady quinn were the reasons tim tebow was drafted

I think the Tebow pick was a panic move.

bronco militia
12-02-2010, 08:20 AM
I think the Tebow pick was a panic move.

what other player do you think they had in mind?

Mountain Bronco
12-02-2010, 09:17 AM
Totally agree. The draft was going great until the Tebow move. He was a luxury we just couldn't afford. It was really just another blunder that fits in nicely with the other issues this organiztion has positioned itself in. Up until Tebow we were in-line to have had a historic draft.

Up until Tebow we had drafted a injured WR about 20 picks earlier than necessary and also picked up some extra pics. Nothing historic about it.

Taco John
12-02-2010, 09:26 AM
What turns this mess around?

One word: ownership

Mountain Bronco
12-02-2010, 09:36 AM
Ownership? Really? Why? Bowlen has been a great owner for years, and now he isn't? He may have made one bad decision with Josh (still not convinced entirely, but signs point that way) (I won't say getting rid of Shannahan was a bad decision because he was stale in Denver, not necessarily a bad coach, but it wasn't working here anymore) Its not like he has a track record of Al Davis or even Dan Snyder.

Also, saying ownership is a bit of a weak answer, because you know that it won't change so it gives you something to bitch about that you will always have.

Mile High Shack
12-02-2010, 09:38 AM
at this point, this seems the only help

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7pspDYiwuJE/Sql12l2f38I/AAAAAAAAARE/Y9m3ihK2SHM/s320/jesus-thumps-up11.jpg

SonOfLe-loLang
12-02-2010, 09:41 AM
Up until Tebow we had drafted a injured WR about 20 picks earlier than necessary and also picked up some extra pics. Nothing historic about it.

From what I remember, Baltimore was going to draft Demaryius Thomas if we didnt step in and grab him

Old Dude
12-02-2010, 10:00 AM
Lloyd, and yes, Orton

Orton could very well qualify. In some ways, he's been dealing with adversity all year. His protection has been spotty and he's had almost no running game.

I don't think any player made more progress in the off-season.

Lloyd is also having a career year. So obvious that's it now easy to take him for granted, and if he doesn't come up with a fantastic catch, it's actually a disappointment.

Rohirrim
12-02-2010, 10:10 AM
what other player do you think they had in mind?

I mean that targeting Tebow in the first place was an act of panic. The highest need was not a QB, certainly not a QB who wouldn't see the field. Those three picks should have gone for defense, and the pursuit of a new QB should have been on the back burner. Maybe Josh was just so in love with Urban's spread offense that he lost track of his priorities?

TonyR
12-02-2010, 10:18 AM
Ownership? Really? Why?

If you have to ask then you're not paying attention and don't understand the real problem here. The owner is the one with the ultimate say in the organization and instead of bringing in an inexperienced football person to run the show he gave the keys to two relatively inexperienced 30-somethings with the kind of power he said he wouldn't give the next coach when he fired Shanahan. This, and only this, is the largest problem this organization has right now. It wasn't done the right way, and that falls on Bowlen and Ellis. All McD did was take the power his was given and prove that it was too much too soon.

TotallyScrewed
12-02-2010, 01:27 PM
Lloyd, and yes, Orton

Certainly Orton has made huge progress. Orton's play, or lack thereof, in 2009 made me somewhat optimistic about the Tim Tebow selection. I'm still hopeful that Tebow will one day be a very fine player for the Denver Broncos. Rushing him out there has become less of a need given the elevation of one Kyle Orton.

Mountain Bronco
12-02-2010, 01:30 PM
If you have to ask then you're not paying attention and don't understand the real problem here. The owner is the one with the ultimate say in the organization and instead of bringing in an inexperienced football person to run the show he gave the keys to two relatively inexperienced 30-somethings with the kind of power he said he wouldn't give the next coach when he fired Shanahan. This, and only this, is the largest problem this organization has right now. It wasn't done the right way, and that falls on Bowlen and Ellis. All McD did was take the power his was given and prove that it was too much too soon.

It is one potential mistake over a 20 year period that saw the height of success for the Broncos under Bowlens ownership. I don't see that as a patern or a reason to call a very successfull non-meadling owner as a bad owner. That is overreacting to one decision, albeit a bad one.

Rock Chalk
12-02-2010, 01:41 PM
We've gone from horrible in the red zone to damn near perfect in the red zone these past few weeks. Even without Tebow in there. That has to be a good sign.

Even without Tebow the reason why is the O-line is now healthy and Moreno is back.

Healthy Oline + Moreno + Tebow = Awesome Red Zone production.

Bronco Yoda
12-02-2010, 01:58 PM
What turns this mess around?

One word: ownership

Exactly.

Bowlen needs to inform him that because of his gross incompetent dealings with talent such as Hills... Joshy has immediately lost all final say in the roster. You will ask for permission the next time you even think of looking at someone with a critical eye...let alone throwing them away.

Because of his dealings with his coaches such as Nolan and cheatergate... Joshy has immediatly lost all final say in his staffing.

Because of his craptastic Defense...Joshy has lost his say over the Defensive coordinator. You'll be informed who gets hired next.

Because of your lack of production against our rivals in the AFC West... I'll be bringing in past Bronco greats to motivate the troops and staff since you obviously can't.

Because of all of this and so much more... you are walking a razor thin line.

If you lose the game against the Al Davis's bunch again later this season, you will be fired and litteraly FED to the black hole crowd by my security staff. A heav-ho and way you'll go.

Have a nice day coach spectacular.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-02-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm thankful that Bronco Yoda isn't running anything more complicated than the fry pit at your local McDonalds.

Dedhed
12-02-2010, 03:11 PM
It is hard to remember all the way back to 2006...
Not hard at all. Nor is it difficult to remember back to 2008, 2007, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, and 2000 and see why this team is brutally short on talent.

Only one solid draft in a 10 year span will spell doom for any team.