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Quoydogs
12-01-2010, 09:59 AM
This kid is 11 years old. Pretty damn impressive.

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vancejohnson82
12-01-2010, 10:06 AM
he's great for an 11 year old

lots of pitfalls ahead of him...like drugs, gangs, school


and the worst one of all: GIRLS

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 10:06 AM
He's more like the next Nash than the next Jordan.

His dad needs to quit with the braid mullet.

bronco_diesel
12-01-2010, 10:30 AM
I see Allen Iverson in his prime.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-01-2010, 10:44 AM
isnt this video way old?

Quoydogs
12-01-2010, 11:05 AM
isnt this video way old?

? First time I had seen it. It was on my FB . Thought it was pretty cool. If it is old It would be cool to see how he has progressed.

Rabb
12-01-2010, 11:13 AM
hopefully the kid keeps playing for the love of the game, and for no other reason

although I hate the "next Michael Jordan" or the next anyone for that matter

there won't be another MJ, that's what made him special

HAT
12-01-2010, 11:22 AM
Kid should be aspiring to be the next Kobe. d:-)

LRtagger
12-01-2010, 11:41 AM
I see Allen Iverson in his prime.

My first reaction also.

Prodigal19
12-01-2010, 12:22 PM
This video is from about 3 years ago. here is a more recent video

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epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 02:30 PM
Kid should be aspiring to be the next Kobe. d:-)

I dont think that rape is a good goal for children to aspire to. ;D

broncosteven
12-01-2010, 02:34 PM
Or next Marcus Dupree?

Carmelo15
12-01-2010, 02:42 PM
The next Romeo Miller. Nothing overwhelmingly special

Rabb
12-01-2010, 02:50 PM
I definitely appreciate the kid's physical skills and ability, but there is a whole lot more to playing basketball than just that...understanding the game is what separates a dominating playground star and a guy like Jordan

I doubt anything basketball related was ever handed to Jordan, that man worked his ass off his entire career to improve, even when he was just embarrassingly good

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 02:54 PM
I definitely appreciate the kid's physical skills and ability, but there is a whole lot more to playing basketball than just that...understanding the game is what separates a dominating playground star and a guy like Jordan

I doubt anything basketball related was ever handed to Jordan, that man worked his ass off his entire career to improve, even when he was just embarrassingly good

Yep.

Its what separates him from guys like LeBarn or Dwight Howard.

The greats add to their game in the offseason.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-01-2010, 03:08 PM
Yep.

Its what separates him from guys like LeBarn or Dwight Howard.

The greats add to their game in the offseason.

You know another reason Michael Jordan was so great? Scottie Pippen...who may have been the most underappreciated basketball player of all time. Remember, when Jordan retired, Pippen took that team within one game of the eastern conference finals. You take LeBron away from the Cavs and you get, well, what the cavs are this season which aint much (the jury is still out on the miami thing, but youd have to wonder how much Bron wishes he picked Cleveland or NYC instead of "taking his talents to south beach" )

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 03:20 PM
You know another reason Michael Jordan was so great? Scottie Pippen...who may have been the most underappreciated basketball player of all time. Remember, when Jordan retired, Pippen took that team within one game of the eastern conference finals. You take LeBron away from the Cavs and you get, well, what the cavs are this season which aint much (the jury is still out on the miami thing, but youd have to wonder how much Bron wishes he picked Cleveland or NYC instead of "taking his talents to south beach" )

Pippen was a good player, no doubt, but he wasnt a first option type.

His own coach didnt believe that, which led to a fallout between he and Phil Jackson.

Pippen wasnt as good as modern first option/MVP types like Bryant, Nash, Shaq, Duncan, or Nowitzki, and its debatable that he was better than someone like Paul Pierce or even Gasol who arent necessarily the type to carry a team, but can come through with baskets on their own in the clutch.

Pippen was a Shawn Marion of sorts.

Mogulseeker
12-01-2010, 03:30 PM
He's 11 and he runs a 4:50 mile. That's faster than anything I've ever run by nearly a full minute.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-01-2010, 03:35 PM
Pippen was a good player, no doubt, but he wasnt a first option type.

His own coach didnt believe that, which led to a fallout between he and Phil Jackson.

Pippen wasnt as good as modern first option/MVP types like Bryant, Nash, Shaq, Duncan, or Nowitzki, and its debatable that he was better than someone like Paul Pierce who isnt necessarily the type to carry a team, but can come through with baskets on his own in the clutch.

Pippen was a Shawn Marion of sorts.

Umm Shawn Marion x15. There was a reason Chuck Daly (i think it was?) referred to Pippen as one of the best players on the dream team. He was the ultimate Jack of All Trades. And he could totally carry a team. Maybe not like Kobe or Michael, but the guy had an amazing understanding of basketball. Again, when Jordan left that Bulls team (which was essentially not much beyond Jordan and Pippen) they were still a very dangerous basketball team that did well i nthe playoffs. If Shawn Marion runs a team, virtually alone, hes not coming close.

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 03:41 PM
Umm Shawn Marion x15. There was a reason Chuck Daly (i think it was?) referred to Pippen as one of the best players on the dream team. He was the ultimate Jack of All Trades. And he could totally carry a team. Maybe not like Kobe or Michael, but the guy had an amazing understanding of basketball. Again, when Jordan left that Bulls team (which was essentially not much beyond Jordan and Pippen) they were still a very dangerous basketball team that did well i nthe playoffs. If Shawn Marion runs a team, virtually alone, hes not coming close.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shawn_marion/career_stats.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/scottie_pippen/career_statistics.html

Check them out. Very, very simlar players. Marion is a better rebounder, Pippen a better passer and a little bit better of a defender.

Pippen has never been an MVP-type.

I watched every televised Bulls game during the MJ era. I know exactly what Pippen was.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-01-2010, 04:13 PM
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shawn_marion/career_stats.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/scottie_pippen/career_statistics.html

Check them out. Very, very simlar players. Marion is a better rebounder, Pippen a better passer and a little bit better of a defender.

Pippen has never been an MVP-type.

I watched every televised Bulls game during the MJ era. I know exactly what Pippen was.

I was a knicks fan during that era, so im well aware of what Pippen would do that us on a yearly basis (and Jordan too obviously, ugh). Stats in basketball can often be worthless, look no further than Shareef Abdur Raheem, Ray Allen on the Sonics, etc etc. We'll never know Pippen's leadership potential because he played his entire prime with Jordan, so its impossible to say that he was only a complimentary player when he never had the chance to be the guy (other than the one half season in...what was it 94?) when he did lead his team deep into the playoffs. Plus, Pippens prime was during that age of defensive basketball where it was commonplace for guys to beat the crap out of each other (remember those knicks teams with Oak, Mase...etc? Riley's team?) Marion played in a higher scoring PHX offense that, and im just guessing here, fired up a ton more shots than those bulls teams did). So that gives him much more opportunity for points and rebounds. All those phoenix guys (and now knicks players too) have inflated statistics simply because there is more opportunity in that offense.

Kaylore
12-01-2010, 04:14 PM
I thought this was another Hillis thread.

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 04:21 PM
I was a knicks fan during that era, so im well aware of what Pippen would do that us on a yearly basis (and Jordan too obviously, ugh). Stats in basketball can often be worthless, look no further than Shareef Abdur Raheem, Ray Allen on the Sonics, etc etc. We'll never know Pippen's leadership potential because he played his entire prime with Jordan, so its impossible to say that he was only a complimentary player when he never had the chance to be the guy (other than the one half season in...what was it 94?) when he did lead his team deep into the playoffs. Plus, Pippens prime was during that age of defensive basketball where it was commonplace for guys to beat the crap out of each other (remember those knicks teams with Oak, Mase...etc? Riley's team?) Marion played in a higher scoring PHX offense that, and im just guessing here, fired up a ton more shots than those bulls teams did). So that gives him much more opportunity for points and rebounds. All those phoenix guys (and now knicks players too) have inflated statistics simply because there is more opportunity in that offense.

Both Pippen and Marion are great athletes with a varied toolbox. They both do alot of alot of different things. Theyre both fantasy basketball dream players capable of odd triple doubles every night. Pippen was a better one on one player and a little less athletic than Marion, but theyre probably a couple of the most comparable players in NBA history. Marions statistics and performance were eyebrow-raising before Nash ever went back there.

You appear to be a Lakers fan who is trying to even the ground between Kobe and Jordan by propping Pippen up to be something he wasnt. Phil Jackson, Kobe's coach, wanted Pippen to defer offensively to Tony Kucoc! It ticked Pippen off to no end.

Kobe had his chance to be Michael Jordan, and he failed. Those LA dark years where Kobe had to carry the team and whined about it all the time while holding the franchise hostage with his constant threats to leave...thats when he could have been Jordan.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-01-2010, 05:23 PM
Both Pippen and Marion are great athletes with a varied toolbox. They both do alot of alot of different things. Theyre both fantasy basketball dream players capable of odd triple doubles every night. Pippen was a better one on one player and a little less athletic than Marion, but theyre probably a couple of the most comparable players in NBA history. Marions statistics and performance were eyebrow-raising before Nash ever went back there.

You appear to be a Lakers fan who is trying to even the ground between Kobe and Jordan by propping Pippen up to be something he wasnt. Phil Jackson, Kobe's coach, wanted Pippen to defer offensively to Tony Kucoc! It ticked Pippen off to no end.

Kobe had his chance to be Michael Jordan, and he failed. Those LA dark years where Kobe had to carry the team and whined about it all the time while holding the franchise hostage with his constant threats to leave...thats when he could have been Jordan.

Wrong actually; I cant stand the lakers or Kobe. Im a knicks fan (its nice to have a winning record again) and I have nothing but incredible respect for Michael Jordan who was, i think without question, the best player ever. I just dont think he wins 6 championships without Scottie by his side, who i really think is incredibly underrated (and i have a lot of experience watching both of them absolutely eviscerate us on a yearly basis. He was the ultimate complimentary player because he understood his role (which Dwayne Wade clearly doesnt) but I have no doubt Scottie could have been the man on another team. Im not saying he would have been a championship player, but he would have been a damn good one. (theres no shame in having a Barkley, Malone esque career). However, we will never know because he never got that shot.

And he wanted to defer to Kukoc on ONE PLAY, that's hardly a seasons worth of deferral.

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 05:33 PM
Wrong actually; I cant stand the lakers or Kobe. Im a knicks fan (its nice to have a winning record again) and I have nothing but incredible respect for Michael Jordan who was, i think without question, the best player ever. I just dont think he wins 6 championships without Scottie by his side, who i really think is incredibly underrated (and i have a lot of experience watching both of them absolutely eviscerate us on a yearly basis. He was the ultimate complimentary player because he understood his role (which Dwayne Wade clearly doesnt) but I have no doubt Scottie could have been the man on another team. Im not saying he would have been a championship player, but he would have been a damn good one. (theres no shame in having a Barkley, Malone esque career). However, we will never know because he never got that shot.

And he wanted to defer to Kukoc on ONE PLAY, that's hardly a seasons worth of deferral.

It wasnt just that play. It was a pattern that developed over the season.

Pippen was a complementary player. I think that on the list of the game's greats, the complementary guys should be a tier below the guys who carried the weight. Barkley being a perfect example of a player who did more for his franchises. Malone had Stockton, who was arguably the greatest PG ever to suit up. I would put Malone above Pippen too though. Any MVP-level player (which Malone was one of) is above Pippen.

Los Broncos
12-01-2010, 05:33 PM
Maybe he'll get a contract with And One some day.

HILife
12-01-2010, 06:00 PM
He's more like the next Nash than the next Jordan.

His dad needs to quit with the braid mullet.

Ok, don't compare cornrows to a mullet. Two completely different things.

Hamrob
12-01-2010, 06:01 PM
The next Spud Webb? That kid is small relative to his peers on the team.

HILife
12-01-2010, 06:07 PM
I thought this was another Hillis thread.

It is, look closer. You don't see the resemblance?

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 06:45 PM
Ok, don't compare cornrows to a mullet. Two completely different things.

That's a cornrow mullet.

HILife
12-01-2010, 07:18 PM
That's a cornrow mullet.

ok, whatever.

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 07:19 PM
ok, whatever.

Mullet, mullet, mullet.

Its one of the family of many ugly mullets.

HILife
12-01-2010, 07:23 PM
Mullet, mullet, mullet.

Its one of the family of many ugly mullets.

Like I said, whatever. Keep showing your ignorance.

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 07:31 PM
Like I said, whatever. Keep showing your ignorance.

Mullets transcend racial boundaries:
http://badhairday.typepad.com/bad_hair_day/images/kfed_kevin_federline_1.jpg

http://img.listal.com/image/1186212/500full.jpg

http://blog.rednecklaughs.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/asian-flat-top-mullet.jpg

http://www.roadflares.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mullet1.jpg

http://www.designmom.com/wp-content/uploads/from_blogger/Picture-1-781488.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jVk-AR6e8zw/SYoMdUnvLjI/AAAAAAAAAIc/THNMeUco7l8/s400/kanye-lead-shag.jpg

HILife
12-01-2010, 07:37 PM
Mullets transcend racial boundaries:
http://badhairday.typepad.com/bad_hair_day/images/kfed_kevin_federline_1.jpg

http://img.listal.com/image/1186212/500full.jpg

http://blog.rednecklaughs.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/asian-flat-top-mullet.jpg

http://www.roadflares.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mullet1.jpg

http://www.designmom.com/wp-content/uploads/from_blogger/Picture-1-781488.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jVk-AR6e8zw/SYoMdUnvLjI/AAAAAAAAAIc/THNMeUco7l8/s400/kanye-lead-shag.jpg

Like I said, whatever. Keep showing your ignorance.

.

misturanderson
12-01-2010, 07:38 PM
He's going to need to grow about 6 inches to have any shot of even being a decent player in the NBA. That is a professional sport that requires it's players to be physical freaks of nature more than any other one in the world and being able to run long distances fast isn't going to cut it. The short guys are usually 6'4".

He certainly has the dedication though.

HILife
12-01-2010, 07:41 PM
He's going to need to grow about 6 inches to have any shot of even being a decent player in the NBA. That is a professional sport that requires it's players to be physical freaks of nature more than any other one in the world and being able to run long distances fast isn't going to cut it. The short guys are usually 6'4".

He certainly has the dedication though.

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epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2010, 07:42 PM
.

Okay...you obviously have a mullet, so I'll quit bagging on your haircut.

HILife
12-01-2010, 07:48 PM
Okay...you obviously have a mullet, so I'll quit bagging on your haircut.

Like I said, whatever. Keep showing your ignorance.

.

Quoydogs
12-01-2010, 08:05 PM
He's going to need to grow about 6 inches to have any shot of even being a decent player in the NBA. That is a professional sport that requires it's players to be physical freaks of nature more than any other one in the world and being able to run long distances fast isn't going to cut it. The short guys are usually 6'4".

He certainly has the dedication though.

Spud Webb Just say'n

ZONA
12-01-2010, 08:17 PM
There are so many dudes out there with mad skills. Still, only a fraction of them make it to the pros. Some guys can play with pressure and people in there face, others look good on videos dribbling 2 balls, hahaha.

misturanderson
12-01-2010, 08:36 PM
Spud Webb Just say'n

People are comparing him to Michael Jordan. I think Spud Webb is just slightly worse than him.

misturanderson
12-01-2010, 08:36 PM
There are so many dudes out there with mad skills. Still, only a fraction of them make it to the pros. Some guys can play with pressure and people in there face, others look good on videos dribbling 2 balls, hahaha.

Don't forget shooting uncontested shots.

misturanderson
12-01-2010, 08:43 PM
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Webb wasn't a great player, neither is Nate Robinson. Dunking doesn't mean jack except in dunking contests.

The videos also don't show him doing anything that those short guys can actually excel at in the NBA: passing and steals.

He's a good ball handler and is great at taking uncontested shots though. He may make it to the NBA, but to say that he will be more than an average point guard would be asking a hell of a lot out of a guy that short.

HILife
12-01-2010, 08:53 PM
Webb wasn't a great player, neither is Nate Robinson. Dunking doesn't mean jack except in dunking contests.

The videos also don't show him doing anything that those short guys can actually excel at in the NBA: passing and steals.

He's a good ball handler and is great at taking uncontested shots though. He may make it to the NBA, but to say that he will be more than an average point guard would be asking a hell of a lot out of a guy that short.

I'm not defending the kid. I'm just saying you don't HAVE to be tall to play in the NBA. You also don't have to be a superstar to have a career.

Also, the guy is in the 5th grade. Don't be worried about his height right now. He will continue to grow into his mid to late teens.

misturanderson
12-01-2010, 08:55 PM
I'm not defending the kid. I'm just saying you don't HAVE to be tall to play in the NBA. You also don't have to be a superstar to have a career.

Fair, I agree. I was disputing the ridiculous notion that he is "the next Michael Jordan" based simply on the fact that he doesn't have the right physical attributes to dominate that league.

HILife
12-01-2010, 08:58 PM
Fair, I agree. I was disputing the ridiculous notion that he is "the next Michael Jordan" based simply on the fact that he doesn't have the right physical attributes to dominate that league.

Damn, I wasn't fast enough with the edit.

misturanderson
12-01-2010, 10:23 PM
Damn, I wasn't fast enough with the edit.

I think it's fair to say that a kid that is as short as he is when he's 14 (I'm under the impression that the 2nd video was taken 3 years after the 1st one) he will not be breaking 6 feet tall. He'll be lucky to break 5'9". That is simply too short to be a truly great NBA player.

maher_tyler
12-01-2010, 11:45 PM
I think it's fair to say that a kid that is as short as he is when he's 14 (I'm under the impression that the 2nd video was taken 3 years after the 1st one) he will not be breaking 6 feet tall. He'll be lucky to break 5'9". That is simply too short to be a truly great NBA player.

I was 5'6 my freshman year...6'3 when i graduated..growth spurts happen..i'm now 6'4..just sayin!!

Requiem
12-01-2010, 11:46 PM
Scottie Pippen to Shawn Marrion? LOL.

STFU.

Jason in LA
12-02-2010, 01:18 AM
He's going to need to grow about 6 inches to have any shot of even being a decent player in the NBA. That is a professional sport that requires it's players to be physical freaks of nature more than any other one in the world and being able to run long distances fast isn't going to cut it. The short guys are usually 6'4".

He certainly has the dedication though.

That's one thing that I noticed. It's impossible to tell how tall he will end up based on his height at that age because some kids are late bloomers. But the shorter kids usually don't grow super tall. Of course there are exceptions. Judging from the video his dad looks average height. So if the kid grows to average height, he's pretty much a point guard. He certainly does have a chance at a good 6'. But it's already a long shot to make it all the way, being only 6' makes it an even longer shot.

My son is 14 and about 5'9" right now. I'm 6' and so are three of my brothers and my father. I have one brother who is 6'2. He has three uncles who are about 6', and one who is 6'3" and his other grandfather is 6'. So chances are that he will be 6'. He's always played football and basketball, but now that he's in high school it looks like he's going to stick to football, which will probably be better for him. At 6' and with his body type he can play WR, CB, or safety. He'd bet the perfect height for any of those positions. In basketball he'd be a point guard, and a short one at that. So I'm happy that he's going the football route. Gives him a better chance to succeed.

Jason in LA
12-02-2010, 01:25 AM
There are so many dudes out there with mad skills. Still, only a fraction of them make it to the pros. Some guys can play with pressure and people in there face, others look good on videos dribbling 2 balls, hahaha.

For a parent, if a kid gets a college scholarship then it is a total success. A pro career is just the icing on the cake. Any parent doing all that with hopes that his kid goes pro is fooling themselves. But if the kid can get a free ride to school, it was all worth it and the plan was a total success.

worm
12-02-2010, 01:53 AM
For a parent, if a kid gets a college scholarship then it is a total success. A pro career is just the icing on the cake. Any parent doing all that with hopes that his kid goes pro is fooling themselves. But he the kid can get a free ride to school, it was all worth it and the plan was a total success.

If that is the determining factor, then this kid (or your son), can succeed and excel at the collegiate level being 6'....and at more than just the point.

Rabb
12-02-2010, 06:49 AM
For a parent, if a kid gets a college scholarship then it is a total success. A pro career is just the icing on the cake. Any parent doing all that with hopes that his kid goes pro is fooling themselves. But he the kid can get a free ride to school, it was all worth it and the plan was a total success.

I really cannot agree with this more, well put.

Jason in LA
12-02-2010, 07:30 AM
If that is the determining factor, then this kid (or your son), can succeed and excel at the collegiate level being 6'....and at more than just the point.

Yep, I think this kid is going to succeed. At the pro level? It's a long shot. But at getting into college, he's going to make it. Being named the top 13 year old in the nation, he's on a lot of college watch lists already. Judging from that video, he has skills that 99% of 13 year olds playing basketball do not have. He's getting training that most of them don't get.

It's not that hard to get a college sports scholarship. It takes a ton of hard work, but most kids who put in the work can get one. I tell my son that the only thing that's really going to set him apart from his teammates, or other players in his section, is a solid plan and a lot of hard work. Work harder in practice. Run those wind sprints at the end harder than everybody and you'll get faster. When everybody takes off after practice hit the weight room. I'm surprised that there are only 5 football players who consistently hit the weights, and he's one of them. By next year he's going to make greater gains than most of his teammates. And he's on a better diet than most of them. He eats his junk food like the rest of them, but he gets a good breakfast and dinner, and I pack him a lunch. He works with a WR coach every Sunday who is giving him skills that I wish I had when I played in high school. I can now see why Jerry Rice, with his 4.6 40 yard dash time, was always beating man coverage. The techniques he used, man, a CB who can run a 4.3 40 can't cover those patterns. And I can see why WRs who run 4.3 40s can't get open like Rice could.

My son, and the kid in that video, are putting in work and getting training that most kids don't get. And they're getting exposure that most kids don't get. Now this kid is doing a bit much being on all these TV shows and having a clothing line. Seems like the father is trying to pimp him a bit. I'm sure it's the father reaching out to these media outlets and not the other way around (I'm the sports editor for a newspaper in LA, and I get annoyed with the amount of parents who call me to do a feature on their kid). But the tournaments and camps he's going to, scouts are always going to know him. My son will be at the UCLA, USC, and San Diego St camps throughout his high school career. A lot of scouts go there to see the players. I'd say that most high school players don't even know to go the camps because nobody is guiding them. That's where a lot of kids get their scholarships, and it is just as important as excelling in their games.

Getting a scholarship is really about having a good plan, and then working hard within that plan. I'm not even thinking about a pro career for my son. If he can make it that far, awesome! But chances are that even with hard work he's not going to make it that far. There's so many things that are out of his control. But getting a college scholarship is within his reach.

And it's not just about working at his sport, school work is just as important, and we're doing extra work there too because after 10 weeks of high school, yeah, he's pretty much teaching himself in Algebra and Spanish. These public school teachers don't care and they have no problem failing the kids. In both of those classes there are about 45 kids in classes. In Algebra 17 kids are failing, 7 are getting Ds (a student needs a C to pass), 19 are getting Cs, 2 Bs, and only 1 A. So half the class won't be moving on. I can see why because the teacher tells them what page to work on, and they use the book to teach themselves the problems. The dude doesn't lecture at all. He just gives them the answers at the end of class. So I just went out to get him a math tutor. And in Spanish, the lady hardly speaks to them. They're mostly working out of the book. So now I'm at home trying to teach him Spanish. Yeah, I don't speak Spanish. But I'm trying to make sure he gets a good grade.

The point of all of this is that there is a plan in place that is going to get him to the next level, and most likely I won't have to pay for that next level. His football coaches and teachers aren't going to get him to that next level. Public schools in LA aren't getting it done. So he needs help from outside of that school to get him to where he needs to be. Most kids aren't getting that help because the parents don't have a solid plan.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-02-2010, 08:24 AM
It wasnt just that play. It was a pattern that developed over the season.

Pippen was a complementary player. I think that on the list of the game's greats, the complementary guys should be a tier below the guys who carried the weight. Barkley being a perfect example of a player who did more for his franchises. Malone had Stockton, who was arguably the greatest PG ever to suit up. I would put Malone above Pippen too though. Any MVP-level player (which Malone was one of) is above Pippen.

Youre remembering history wrong if you think Kukoc was the go-to guy on that team. Way wrong. It was Pippens team through and through. Thats like saying Magic Johnson was a complimentary player.