PDA

View Full Version : Can I have Your Attention...Please


Pages : 1 [2]

Spider
12-01-2010, 02:06 PM
Well Bears give up 15 points a game people. What would our record be if we have up 15 points a game?

Exactly. Fix the defense and lets not worry about Cutler so much. He will soon face Jets, NE, GB I think. So I am looking forward to watching those games. I can't lie I love to watch him mope and hate to see him win. Hell thats all I need to fall in love with a football game.

See we still have some stuff to watch!!!

Heres to the draft!!!! may it bring a DE a DT and an ILB.

wait .... are you saying that if we hld the other team to 15 points , while scoring 16+ we would be undefeated ? thats just crazy talk ;D seriously I agree

broncocalijohn
12-01-2010, 02:10 PM
Now that there is uncalled for. Hit the bricks boy.

As much as JHNS has gotten on people's nerves, you have owned this site long enough to know that he was sarcastically trying to be a thorn in everyone's side with this post. Do you know how many you will need to ban for making the same comment (and many mean it)? If you must, at least it is him who many cant stand. For me, I am not hating on him as much.

Hogan11
12-01-2010, 02:12 PM
As much as JHNS has gotten on people's nerves, you have owned this site long enough to know that he was sarcastically trying to be a thorn in everyone's side with this post. Do you know how many you will need to ban for making the same comment (and many mean it)? If you must, at least it is him who many cant stand. For me, I am not hating on him as much.

Maybe it was just the straw the broke the camel's back.....

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-01-2010, 02:13 PM
As much as JHNS has gotten on people's nerves, you have owned this site long enough to know that he was sarcastically trying to be a thorn in everyone's side with this post. Do you know how many you will need to ban for making the same comment (and many mean it)? If you must, at least it is him who many cant stand. For me, I am not hating on him as much.

Get what you're saying here, but come on. Any other thread, and he doesn't get banned for "trying to be a thorn in everyone's side," which is his entire game and gimmick and has been for some time. It simply isn't necessary, and I for one think it will be a lovely vacation not to have the childish repetition on the board for a while.

worm
12-01-2010, 02:16 PM
There has ALWAYS been a vocal group representing extremely negative, current Broncos regime opinions.

Jhns. Gonzo. Casino. Waffleboy. Becky. Telluride. Wolf. Tundra. etc. The list is never ending. People that think that these perspectives\people are something new on this forum and are only now causing problems unlike 'the good ole days' just haven't been around long enough. The current thread devolution has nothing to do with solely this type of poster or only having a 3 win season so far.

The relatively new phenomenon is now there is an equally extreme group representing the opposite side that uses similar tactics of disrespect, name calling and irrational pissing. Additionally, a lot of this group feels the need to repeatedly criticize this forum and its administration rather than work on doing their part to improve it.

Regardless of the Broncos record this year, one way or the other, the friction was going to be there and thread crapping was going to be at an all-time high. We are currently a forum of disrespectful, vocal extremes.

While a thread calling for more tolerance by both sides may make some feel warm and fuzzy; in practice, the only thing that will ensure that this forum is less volatile and more respectful is if one side or the other unilaterally tames their act (good luck with that), we take on the headache of implementing stricter personal conduct rules or the Broncos start winning playoff games.

Requiem
12-01-2010, 02:41 PM
"I have a 100 person draft board"

-Josh McDaniels

How is this not being prepared?

There was a link posted during that whole "controversy" that talked about many other teams who are doing the same thing.

I would rather have a great scouting analysis on 100 or so players who fit the direction you want to go (scheme, etc.) than a 300 player board with ambiguity on the players.

If we had 25 picks in a draft, sure -- having a bigger board might make sense. However, critiquing a coach for having a small draft board when there are other teams that do the same, in fact ones that have been successful (Steelers, Ravens, Patriots) in the draft is not objective on your behalf.

baja
12-01-2010, 02:49 PM
There has ALWAYS been a vocal group representing extremely negative, current Broncos regime opinions.

Jhns. Gonzo. Casino. Waffleboy. Becky. Telluride. Wolf. Tundra. etc. The list is never ending. People that think that these perspectives\people are something new on this forum and are only now causing problems unlike 'the good ole days' just haven't been around long enough. The current thread devolution has nothing to do with solely this type of poster or only having a 3 win season so far.

The relatively new phenomenon is now there is an equally extreme group representing the opposite side that uses similar tactics of disrespect, name calling and irrational pissing. Additionally, a lot of this group feels the need to repeatedly criticize this forum and its administration rather than work on doing their part to improve it.

Regardless of the Broncos record this year, one way or the other, the friction was going to be there and thread crapping was going to be at an all-time high. We are currently a forum of disrespectful, vocal extremes.

While a thread calling for more tolerance by both sides may make some feel warm and fuzzy; in practice, the only thing that will ensure that this forum is less volatile and more respectful is if one side or the other unilaterally tames their act (good luck with that), we take on the headache of implementing stricter personal conduct rules or the Broncos start winning playoff games.

Becky now there is a name out of the past. How I loved it when she was on line.

Remember Bronco Fox?

bendog
12-01-2010, 02:54 PM
How is this not being prepared?

There was a link posted during that whole "controversy" that talked about many other teams who are doing the same thing.

I would rather have a great scouting analysis on 100 or so players who fit the direction you want to go (scheme, etc.) than a 300 player board with ambiguity on the players.

If we had 25 picks in a draft, sure -- having a bigger board might make sense. However, critiquing a coach for having a small draft board when there are other teams that do the same, in fact ones that have been successful (Steelers, Ravens, Patriots) in the draft is not objective on your behalf.

I think Billicheat has an even smaller board at times, but he's an extreme, and frankly I think a Jimmy Johnson or Polien appraoch is proven to be the better. No one knew Tom Brady was that good. Billicheat was a fail until he lucked into that one.

At first I thought the small board was a joke. When the team's slot gets close, the draft team gets it down to a few guys who may be available by kicking around what guy best fits the team's scheme. The small bd approach tries to cull out all the guys who don't really fit the scheme. IMO, that's the wrong approach because successful regiemes like Walsh/Shanny/Lombardi/Allen have all adjusted scheme to fit the best athletes they could acquire.

The possibly valid criticism of McD isn't so much his draft approach, but the actual players he selects as opposed to other players on the big board who as time unfolds look to have been able to fit into his schemes and be better athletes than whom he selected.

Taco John
12-01-2010, 02:55 PM
The 100 man board had Alphonso Smith slated as a first round talent that we couldn't afford to let get away. How great can this system be?

Rabb
12-01-2010, 02:55 PM
Have you ever noticed that the people who cause the most issues on the board are also the ones who never go to any of the tailgates?

Just an observation is all, I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

yep

I have only met 2 Maners so far (TGN and gylden) and they are great in person...TGN really goes out of his way at games to be hospitable and basically spend his money to feed whoever wants to stop by

lot of respect there as far as I am concerned, and gylden was awesome to talk to

baja
12-01-2010, 03:01 PM
There has ALWAYS been a vocal group representing extremely negative, current Broncos regime opinions.

Jhns. Gonzo. Casino. Waffleboy. Becky. Telluride. Wolf. Tundra. etc. The list is never ending. People that think that these perspectives\people are something new on this forum and are only now causing problems unlike 'the good ole days' just haven't been around long enough. The current thread devolution has nothing to do with solely this type of poster or only having a 3 win season so far.

The relatively new phenomenon is now there is an equally extreme group representing the opposite side that uses similar tactics of disrespect, name calling and irrational pissing. <b> Additionally, a lot of this group feels the need to repeatedly criticize this forum and its administration rather than work on doing their part to improve it. </b>

Regardless of the Broncos record this year, one way or the other, the friction was going to be there and thread crapping was going to be at an all-time high. We are currently a forum of disrespectful, vocal extremes.

While a thread calling for more tolerance by both sides may make some feel warm and fuzzy; in practice, the only thing that will ensure that this forum is less volatile and more respectful is if one side or the other unilaterally tames their act (good luck with that), we take on the headache of implementing stricter personal conduct rules or the Broncos start winning playoff games.

Really this is the only way things will improve around here unless of course TJ and the mods lay out a conduct policy and start a ban fest of those that don't comply. I would be cleaned up almost immediately.

Rohirrim
12-01-2010, 03:05 PM
Really this is the only way things will improve around here unless of course TJ and the mods lay out a conduct policy and start a ban fest of those that don't comply. I would be cleaned up almost immediately.

Libertarians don't believe in conduct policies. ;D

baja
12-01-2010, 03:09 PM
Libertarians don't believe in conduct policies. ;D

It's interesting that it was lack of regulation (or deregulation) that brought both the US banking system and the OM to it's knees. ;D

Rohirrim
12-01-2010, 03:10 PM
It's interesting that it was lack of regulation (or deregulation) that brought both the US banking system and the OM to it's knees. ;D

They don't believe in evidence either. Ha!

bendog
12-01-2010, 03:13 PM
The 100 man board had Alphonso Smith slated as a first round talent that we couldn't afford to let get away. How great can this system be?

That's the thing. McD tries to explain the draft away as not having time to prepare, but he bragged about his small board. Can't have it both ways. A. Smith was slotted somewhere between 35 and 40. Apparantly, McD had him slotted around 21-25. It's not the size that matters.

Broncoman13
12-01-2010, 03:18 PM
Get what you're saying here, but come on. Any other thread, and he doesn't get banned for "trying to be a thorn in everyone's side," which is his entire game and gimmick and has been for some time. It simply isn't necessary, and I for one think it will be a lovely vacation not to have the childish repetition on the board for a while.

Probably b/c you're the one that he is usually having to defend himself against. You attack him constantly and both of your acts are tired. I hope that Taco is watching you as closely as he was watching jhns! You should both be in the spotlight.

Rabb
12-01-2010, 03:21 PM
Probably b/c you're the one that he is usually having to defend himself against. You attack him constantly and both of your acts are tired. I hope that Taco is watching you as closely as he was watching jhns! You should both be in the spotlight.

this is exactly the issue and I often find myself being just as guilty...it just perpetuates things

there are guys that are just out to argue with certain people, or guys that just want to argue in general and it's equally as irritating as anything jhns or dragstrafen do

the super fan posse is probably the worst IMO

Broncoman13
12-01-2010, 03:23 PM
How is this not being prepared?

There was a link posted during that whole "controversy" that talked about many other teams who are doing the same thing.

I would rather have a great scouting analysis on 100 or so players who fit the direction you want to go (scheme, etc.) than a 300 player board with ambiguity on the players.

If we had 25 picks in a draft, sure -- having a bigger board might make sense. However, critiquing a coach for having a small draft board when there are other teams that do the same, in fact ones that have been successful (Steelers, Ravens, Patriots) in the draft is not objective on your behalf.

Richard Quinn at 62, some 40 picks higher than his earliest projection.
Alphonso Smith at 37. Midget CB who had the coach saying after just one season that he should have looked for a bigger player at the position.
Knowshon Moreno with Orakpo waiting... the Skins picked 15 seconds after the Broncos they were so excited to have Orakpo there!
Zane Beadles, another player picked in the 2nd round with a 4th round grade... at least he is showing potential.
Tim Tebow, Ayers, DT, McBath all are still bigger question marks than they are answers... it may not be an issue with having 100 players on your draft board, but it's an issue with which of those 100 you end up picking!!!

Broncoman13
12-01-2010, 03:31 PM
this is exactly the issue and I often find myself being just as guilty...it just perpetuates things

there are guys that are just out to argue with certain people, or guys that just want to argue in general and it's equally as irritating as anything jhns or dragstrafen do

the super fan posse is probably the worst IMO

Yup, the sad part is that everyone that you mentioned as well as Moose are capable of very good posts... when not being stalked by one another. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to go back and start an "I told you so thread" against Popps. But it would come across as personal and sound like it wasn't okay for Popps to have the opinion that he does. And usually Popps will come on the Mane and present or defend his position without a thread calling him out. What I've noticed with Popps is he'll adjust his opinion over time... still fully supportive of the staff but critical of what he doesn't like or agree with. As time goes by, it appears that we're both viewing the franchise in a similar light. A good example of how trying to understand one's opinion or perspective rather than attacking gives you a little more perception in your own opinion or views. But I'm a McD supporter so it makes sense that I would see his perspective within my own.

Los Broncos
12-01-2010, 03:40 PM
yep

I have only met 2 Maners so far (TGN and gylden) and they are great in person...TGN really goes out of his way at games to be hospitable and basically spend his money to feed whoever wants to stop by

lot of respect there as far as I am concerned, and gylden was awesome to talk to

yeah Golden is cool, I picked him up when he came to the OC for business, hung out at the Bronco Hooters here.

TGN is always great, him and his wife are good people.

bendog
12-01-2010, 03:40 PM
Yup, the sad part is that everyone that you mentioned as well as Moose are capable of very good posts... when not being stalked by one another. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to go back and start an "I told you so thread" against Popps. But it would come across as personal and sound like it wasn't okay for Popps to have the opinion that he does. And usually Popps will come on the Mane and present or defend his position without a thread calling him out. What I've noticed with Popps is he'll adjust his opinion over time... still fully supportive of the staff but critical of what he doesn't like or agree with. As time goes by, it appears that we're both viewing the franchise in a similar light. A good example of how trying to understand one's opinion or perspective rather than attacking gives you a little more perception in your own opinion or views. But I'm a McD supporter so it makes sense that I would see his perspective within my own.

not to personally criticize you, but how can in one post list the list of McD draft fails so coherently and in the next note you are a McD supporter? I'd love to see the guy get his **** together and succeed here in Den, and I realize Bowlen really doesn't want to change horses now, but given the personnel fails, and the coaching debacle after Oak, I'm pretty much at a loss as to how to think McD is gonna pull the team out of this dive.

ant1999e
12-01-2010, 03:49 PM
of course.

this is all about the McFanboys getting jhns and his opinions (which have been totally on the mark, grammar aside) off of the board.

Pathetic.

Is Taco a McFanboy?

TailgateNut
12-01-2010, 04:07 PM
he was obviously joking around.

Just like So dak when he wished an injury on Orton. RIIIIGHT!

TailgateNut
12-01-2010, 04:09 PM
No kidding.

The same people who were fan policing and attacking anyone who questioned McScandals, and who were sending me "go **** yourself" pms constantly- looking at you Meck77, McDagmar, Tailgatefan, and a few others, are the same people who now are crying to the mods because you have been proven to be completely wrong, and are too childish to handle it like adults

Who the hell is crying to the mods??

Get over yourself. You aren't important in the grand scheme!

colonelbeef
12-01-2010, 04:25 PM
Just like So dak when he wished an injury on Orton. RIIIIGHT!

I have no idea what you are referencing, so I can't really speak to it at all. I doubt anybody really wants a player on the team with any value to get injured.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-01-2010, 04:28 PM
The 100 man board had Alphonso Smith slated as a first round talent that we couldn't afford to let get away. How great can this system be?

You should really work in sports talk radio. You really know how to repeatedly harangue the same move over and over again.

No, seriously. You missed your calling, TJ.

Broncoman13
12-01-2010, 04:32 PM
not to personally criticize you, but how can in one post list the list of McD draft fails so coherently and in the next note you are a McD supporter? I'd love to see the guy get his **** together and succeed here in Den, and I realize Bowlen really doesn't want to change horses now, but given the personnel fails, and the coaching debacle after Oak, I'm pretty much at a loss as to how to think McD is gonna pull the team out of this dive.

Not critizing at all. I support McD b/c I like the enthusiasm and his approach to coaching. I think he is a highly intelligent Xs and Os guy. Innovative but immature with his impatience. He will improve greatly as his career progresses. The most immediate example is the run game and how he abandons it too quickly. Last year he self evaluated and noticed the lack of downfield play calling. I'd say he made a major adjustment and improvement in that regard. I think you will see a similar improvement in the running game and specifically how McD calls the plays... Mo balance!

And I still contend that Josh's failures are not related to his ability to coach but rather his ability to acquire players that can produce in his system. Bring in a personnel man and let McD focus on what he does best!

TailgateNut
12-01-2010, 04:35 PM
Not critizing at all. I support McD b/c I like the enthusiasm and his approach to coaching. I think he is a highly intelligent Xs and Os guy. Innovative but immature with his impatience. He will improve greatly as his career progresses. The most immediate example is the run game and how he abandons it too quickly. Last year he self evaluated and noticed the lack of downfield play calling. I'd say he made a major adjustment and improvement in that regard. I think you will see a similar improvement in the running game and specifically how McD calls the plays... Mo balance!

And I still contend that Josh's failures are not related to his ability to coach but rather his ability to acquire players that can produce in his system. Bring in a personnel man and let McD focus on what he does best!


Just a little "adder" to your comments. I do think he needs to learn to be a bit more "PC" in regard to his interaction with his coaching staff and players.

go_broncos
12-01-2010, 04:37 PM
Not critizing at all. I support McD b/c I like the enthusiasm and his approach to coaching. I think he is a highly intelligent Xs and Os guy. Innovative but immature with his impatience. He will improve greatly as his career progresses. The most immediate example is the run game and how he abandons it too quickly. Last year he self evaluated and noticed the lack of downfield play calling. I'd say he made a major adjustment and improvement in that regard. I think you will see a similar improvement in the running game and specifically how McD calls the plays... Mo balance!

And I still contend that Josh's failures are not related to his ability to coach but rather his ability to acquire players that can produce in his system. Bring in a personnel man and let McD focus on what he does best!

I don't think he is a good and never will be. Bring GM will not help as his play calling sucks. I don't believe passing the ball on every down will work.
Even Manning needs running game to win games.
One more drawback is that he believes that TE should only block.
He never concentrated on defense. He hired ST coach that KC fired.
His coaching staff sucks..I don't think experienced coaches will work under him.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-01-2010, 04:42 PM
I don't think he is a good and never will be. Bring GM will not help as his play calling sucks. I don't believe passing the ball on every down will work.
Even Manning needs running game to win games.
One more drawback is that he believes that TE should only block.
He never concentrated on defense. He hired ST coach that KC fired.
His coaching staff sucks..I don't think experienced coaches will work under him.

:oyvey:

Just never gets old.

Broncoman13
12-01-2010, 04:47 PM
Just a little "adder" to your comments. I do think he needs to learn to be a bit more "PC" in regard to his interaction with his coaching staff and players.

Yeah, there have been a few different stories (how true they are no one knows) about McD going off on players and coaches. And I agree he will have to learn to control that or no one will want to work with him. Can't be a hothead all of the time. But at the same time you have to kind of put yourself in his shoes. He is trying (perhaps too hard) to show that he is in charge and capable of taking command of his ship. I attribute this to him being a young headcoach. I've been in similar positions where you are a leader amongst several people with twice the level of experience. Its easy to feel like you have to prove you belong. Anyhow, I am hoping that McD is learning thru these experiences and that he can apply those lessons learned now rather than being fired and having to wait for his next opportunity as a HC.

Bottom line, get Elway in right now. Let him start studying the team, players, coaches, schemes and the players and coaches that will or could be available next year. If we learned anything from McD's first draft, it was that he didn't feel like he was prepared. We have the opportunity to get a head start right now, we should take advantage of that!

Broncoman13
12-01-2010, 04:52 PM
:oyvey:

Just never gets old.

Are you capable of presenting facts to counter his opinion or shed light onto your own? Try it some time w/out bagging on someone and see what kind of response you get. Just b/c you don't agree with his opinion doesn't mean either of you are wrong. Dude, you gotta calm down and try to treat everyone with respect.

I wonder what it would be like if we all changed our names to numbers for a week and nobody knew who was who, would you still respond the same way not knowing it was Strafen or Go Broncos?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-01-2010, 04:55 PM
Are you capable of presenting facts to counter his opinion or shed light onto your own? Try it some time w/out bagging on someone and see what kind of response you get. Just b/c you don't agree with his opinion doesn't mean either of you are wrong. Dude, you gotta calm down and try to treat everyone with respect.

I wonder what it would be like if we all changed our names to numbers for a week and nobody knew who was who, would you still respond the same way not knowing it was Strafen or Go Broncos?

I have tried it. Are you kidding? I've been trying for months. But here we are, in a thread not having anything REMOTELY to do with what he wrote, and he's repeating himself, AGAIN, with the same ****ing bull****.

It's ****ing old. This is the equivalent of a child simply repeating "mommy. Mommy. Mommy, Mommy. Mommy. Mommy. Mommy." over and over again to get his mother's attention... only over several months, and while talking to his teddy bear.

As for your idea to change names, I'm pretty sure I'd still be able to pick out strafen or go_broncos. They'd repeat themselves about McDaniels in every thread, regardless of topic, with language an ESL student would be proud of, and give themselves away almost immediately.

Broncoman13
12-01-2010, 05:00 PM
I don't think he is a good and never will be. Bring GM will not help as his play calling sucks. I don't believe passing the ball on every down will work.
Even Manning needs running game to win games.
One more drawback is that he believes that TE should only block.
He never concentrated on defense. He hired ST coach that KC fired.
His coaching staff sucks..I don't think experienced coaches will work under him.

I am not a big fan of his game calling in general. I think he gets antsy and seemingly feels that every play should go for 10-15 yards. If he misses those 10-20 yards on one play he goes for double the next play. That is a maturity thing. The reason I am confident that he can change is b/c he changed significantly from last year. Like I mentioned earlier, downfield playcalling is up by close to 300% compared to last year. Once or twice a game was the norm. This year, once or twice per quarter is the norm and Kyle Orton and Brandon Lloyd are having career years as a result. So that adjustment gives me faith that he will self evaluate his playcalling balance and adjust as necessary. Plus a leader like Elway can promote that sort of thing just as be did with the scripted play suggestion.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-01-2010, 05:02 PM
I am not a big fan of his game calling in general. I think he gets antsy and seemingly feels that every play should go for 10-15 yards. If he misses those 10-20 yards on one play he goes for double the next play. That is a maturity thing. The reason I am confident that he can change is b/c he changed significantly from last year. Like I mentioned earlier, downfield playcalling is up by close to 300% compared to last year. Once or twice a game was the norm. This year, once or twice per quarter is the norm and Kyle Orton and Brandon Lloyd are having career years as a result. So that adjustment gives me faith that he will self evaluate his playcalling balance and adjust as necessary. Plus a leader like Elway can promote that sort of thing just as be did with the scripted play suggestion.

Might want to cut and paste this into a separate document. You'll be using it again. Probably tomorrow.

Taco John
12-01-2010, 05:36 PM
You should really work in sports talk radio. You really know how to repeatedly harangue the same move over and over again.

No, seriously. You missed your calling, TJ.

My career aint over yet... ;)


But all things considered, I haven't really harangued this point much at all. Not that it doesn't deserve it. I've just had so much material to harangue on other stuff that this particular point has been glossed over by me by and large.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-01-2010, 05:40 PM
My career aint over yet... ;)


But all things considered, I haven't really harangued this point much at all. Not that it doesn't deserve it. I've just had so much material to harangue on other stuff that this particular point has been glossed over by me by and large.

Go for it. I know some guys in radio. ;)

I was referring more to your haranguing of other moves more than this one in particular... just had a feeling this would be the latest in a long line of haranguing.

Haranguing is a great word.

Taco John
12-01-2010, 05:59 PM
Go for it. I know some guys in radio. ;)

I was referring more to your haranguing of other moves more than this one in particular... just had a feeling this would be the latest in a long line of haranguing.

Haranguing is a great word.



There's a harangutang joke in there somewhere.

DHallblows
12-01-2010, 06:04 PM
Unnecessary argument by pg 5, cutler by pg 9, draft by pg 11.
Par for the course boys Uhh

frerottenextelway
12-01-2010, 06:11 PM
Is it possible to put yourself on ignore? My posting has been of poor quality lately, imo.

frerottenextelway
12-01-2010, 06:17 PM
This message is hidden because frerottenextelway is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist)

Thank god, I don't have to subject myself to my sh_t anymore.

broncosteven
12-01-2010, 07:12 PM
I am not a big fan of his game calling in general. I think he gets antsy and seemingly feels that every play should go for 10-15 yards. If he misses those 10-20 yards on one play he goes for double the next play. That is a maturity thing. The reason I am confident that he can change is b/c he changed significantly from last year. Like I mentioned earlier, downfield playcalling is up by close to 300% compared to last year. Once or twice a game was the norm. This year, once or twice per quarter is the norm and Kyle Orton and Brandon Lloyd are having career years as a result. So that adjustment gives me faith that he will self evaluate his playcalling balance and adjust as necessary. Plus a leader like Elway can promote that sort of thing just as be did with the scripted play suggestion.

I wonder if John's next suggestion would be to bring back the ZBS and feature KM out of the I formation?

zdoor
12-01-2010, 07:51 PM
This message is hidden because frerottenextelway is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist)

Thank god, I don't have to subject myself to my sh_t anymore.

:rofl:

Requiem
12-01-2010, 08:21 PM
Richard Quinn at 62, some 40 picks higher than his earliest projection.

The Houston Texans were going to select him in the third round. I've provided quotes and links by their GM -- Rick Smith, multiple times on this, and even from Quinn's agent -- who said teams were calling him in round two about the prospect of selecting Richard around that time. He was also projected based on an outlook and analysis of team boards to be a 3(A) player, early third round selectin.

Alphonso Smith at 37. Midget CB who had the coach saying after just one season that he should have looked for a bigger player at the position.

Smith was going to be selected in the second round. The kicker here is our future first investment in him to land him. Size with Alphonso wasn't the issue, it was not being able to play well inside. Outside the Dallas game, he has been stellar for the Lions getting to play in his natural position as he did throughout his time with the Demon Deacons.

Knowshon Moreno with Orakpo waiting... the Skins picked 15 seconds after the Broncos they were so excited to have Orakpo there!

The Broncos needed a running back, and so far Moreno has produced for the team -- but not all world numbers. The Broncos selected Ayers as their OLB threat six picks later. More than fine with that. Good grief, you are one Hell of a revisionist.

Zane Beadles, another player picked in the 2nd round with a 4th round grade... at least he is showing potential.

I saw grades on Beadles ranging from as high as the second round to as early as to late as the fourth. Either way, he is a rookie offensive lineman who is starting for this team. He has not played horrendously, and actually has done quite well according to what has been linked my MKPORTER and others through sites that do analysis on OL play. It seems like his calling is at LG, as he has been more effective there in recent games.

Tim Tebow, Ayers, DT, McBath all are still bigger question marks than they are answers... it may not be an issue with having 100 players on your draft board, but it's an issue with which of those 100 you end up picking!!!

Two of these players are still rookies, and the other two have been battling injuries. It is a part of the game. I am the kind of fair-minded person who would give a player more than 11 games (or 27) to evaluate whether or not they were worth the pick or not.

And furthermore, all teams miss in the draft. Like Mediator said a while back, crying about what you cannot control doesn't really help. It is the ultimate crapshoot. Plus, Josh is going to go off of what his talent evaluators do for him. It might be easy to place the blame on Josh for the bad picks, but did you ever think to blame the scout from the portion of the country he is assigned to evaluate?

Probably not.

Good try though, real good try.

oubronco
12-01-2010, 08:25 PM
Nice

TotallyScrewed
12-01-2010, 08:28 PM
I am not a big fan of his game calling in general. I think he gets antsy and seemingly feels that every play should go for 10-15 yards. If he misses those 10-20 yards on one play he goes for double the next play. That is a maturity thing. The reason I am confident that he can change is b/c he changed significantly from last year. Like I mentioned earlier, downfield playcalling is up by close to 300% compared to last year. Once or twice a game was the norm. This year, once or twice per quarter is the norm and Kyle Orton and Brandon Lloyd are having career years as a result. So that adjustment gives me faith that he will self evaluate his playcalling balance and adjust as necessary. Plus a leader like Elway can promote that sort of thing just as be did with the scripted play suggestion.

All I can say is Thank God. Imagine what the scores would be if Orton hadn't made great improvement and Josh was still trying to dink and dunk.

Sassy
12-01-2010, 08:43 PM
Good post Adam, I came over here following the demise of the RMN board. Slap, Tredici (13), bpc, Popps, bendog and others were at the RMN. I have never met these people except for bpc. I got along with them all, Slap and I played in the same fantasy baseball league for years. Don't have much to say very often. I don't get the hatin' on each other. I love the Broncos and I trust that Pat Bowlen will protect his investment wisely. I can't do anything about the score of the game. I will always be a Bronco fan and I have been thru some lean years with them. I am just so old I don't remember all of it!

I love TGN and Meck and Miles and Trish and Sassy and Hogan and Fanny and whatever the hell name Adam is going by these days and Ryan and Sarah and Bobby. We have all met and we certainly do not all agree on everything. But we are and always will be Bronco buddies.Some of the posters here just don't get it! I don't want McDaniels fired. I want to see what happens with the draft and next season.
Awww...love ya too Mike!:)

strafen
12-01-2010, 08:53 PM
This message is hidden because frerottenextelway is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist)

Thank god, I don't have to subject myself to my sh_t anymore.Dude, I'm laughing myself to tears. That's hilarious! Ha! :rofl: :thumbsup:

strafen
12-01-2010, 08:56 PM
I wonder if John's next suggestion would be to bring back the ZBS and feature KM out of the I formation?Possible.
That's what John knows the best, but he would also favor a pure pocket passer type QB and mobile.

Broncoman13
12-01-2010, 08:59 PM
So because some teams failed and evaluated Quinn as a 3rd round pick they are suddenly right? Defend Quinn all you want, my opinion is that he isn't worth a roster spot and will likely be cut next year when we draft another TE, maybe two.

Moreno was the best back in the draft but our needs were elsewhere. Are you serious that you think Moreno (or Ayers) was a better pick than Orakpo? And this isn't a hindsight thing. I'm not sitting here saying we should have drafted Orakpo at 12 and Clay Mathews at 18. I am saying that heading into the draft, many of us were hoping we would move up around the 8th pick to select Orakpo. When he fell to us at 12 many thought it was a no brainer. I am not a Moreno hater, but a back that cannot break a 20 yard run that was drafted high in the first round is suspect.

As for Alphonso Smith, McD is the one who stated they would have been better off going with a player with better size. Did you ever stop and think that they played him inside b/c of poor size and b/c they played him out of the position the scouts projected him at? I do agree with you that he is an outside corner and necks having a good season outside of that one Pats game.

I'll give Beadles some credit for his play. I would even give Walton credit for his play. In fact, I would say that Walton and Cox were our smartest draft picks. Slotted close to where we selected them and both are growing on the field as rookies... OL is promising, IMO. Back to Beadles, if you were nit surprised that we took him in the 2nd round, you are one of the very few. Mike Mayock said at the time of the pick that he didn't expect him to go off the board until the 3rd or 4th round, but did compare him favorably to Mankins.

I am sure you agree with drafting DT over Dez Bryant as well... But Dez Bryant is a football player... Not sure what DT is other than frequently injured. There was a reason Dez was rated in the top 10 overall on most boards. It was a reaction to BMarsh. In all honesty I would have preferred that we not draft a WR in the first round at all. Pick Tebow at 22 and use those 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks on Defense! I did appreciate how McD got the extra picks, Just didn't agree with all of the players and where we selected them.

Such as life and I will root for anyone in the Orange n Ble, but you'll forgive me if I also sit back and think what might have been. You are welcome to go back and review my posts from prior to the draft. You will find that I was high on Orakpo, Shonn Greene and William Moore and wanted no part of Ayers. I will say that Ayers was playing very well at the beginning of the year.

The Houston Texans were going to select him in the third round. I've provided quotes and links by their GM -- Rick Smith, multiple times on this, and even from Quinn's agent -- who said teams were calling him in round two about the prospect of selecting Richard around that time. He was also projected based on an outlook and analysis of team boards to be a 3(A) player, early third round selectin.



Smith was going to be selected in the second round. The kicker here is our future first investment in him to land him. Size with Alphonso wasn't the issue, it was not being able to play well inside. Outside the Dallas game, he has been stellar for the Lions getting to play in his natural position as he did throughout his time with the Demon Deacons.



The Broncos needed a running back, and so far Moreno has produced for the team -- but not all world numbers. The Broncos selected Ayers as their OLB threat six picks later. More than fine with that. Good grief, you are one Hell of a revisionist.



I saw grades on Beadles ranging from as high as the second round to as early as to late as the fourth. Either way, he is a rookie offensive lineman who is starting for this team. He has not played horrendously, and actually has done quite well according to what has been linked my MKPORTER and others through sites that do analysis on OL play. It seems like his calling is at LG, as he has been more effective there in recent games.



Two of these players are still rookies, and the other two have been battling injuries. It is a part of the game. I am the kind of fair-minded person who would give a player more than 11 games (or 27) to evaluate whether or not they were worth the pick or not.

And furthermore, all teams miss in the draft. Like Mediator said a while back, crying about what you cannot control doesn't really help. It is the ultimate crapshoot. Plus, Josh is going to go off of what his talent evaluators do for him. It might be easy to place the blame on Josh for the bad picks, but did you ever think to blame the scout from the portion of the country he is assigned to evaluate?

Probably not.

Good try though, real good try.

Requiem
12-01-2010, 09:08 PM
I never said Quinn was worth the selection either, I hated the selection. I'm just saying that he was drafted where he was suspected to be by scouting outlets, reinforced by talk from his agent and another NFL GM. I hated that selection.

And no, after the 2008 season where all our running backs were injured, it was clear we needed a talented, young back on our team.

We elected to select Moreno over Orakpo (probably because Moreno wasn't going to be there at 18) and then took Ayers to be our SOLB. That is how it happened. I can't change that. What people on the Mane thought is irrelevant to the conversation either. I wasn't a big fan of Ayers.

I kind of thought it was a no-brainer to select a running back at #12 with an elite talent available considering what happened to our corps the year prior.

I was surprised when we took Beadles at that selection, not because of who he was as a player, but in comparison to the talent overall elsewhere. I do think it was too early for him, but if he keeps on starting for us and improving, more power to him. To invest a second round pick in a guard and have him starting for us is a good sign.

I think Walton and Cox will be good players for us.

I too would have chosen Thomas over Bryant, even with his foot injury. Though, I probably wouldn't have taken any of those guys to be our first pick.

I was extremely upset about trading up for Tebow. I drank an 18 pack of Bud Light within two hours of his selection. It pissed me off.

Good thoughts though, B13. I appreciate your response.

Broncoman13
12-01-2010, 10:01 PM
Word to ya big soul sista

HILife
12-01-2010, 10:02 PM
So, what's going in here? I see this thread is getting pretty big. Most be alot of arguing.

Broncoman13
12-01-2010, 10:06 PM
Jaw pretty good discourse actually!

HILife
12-01-2010, 10:07 PM
Are you capable of presenting facts to counter his opinion or shed light onto your own? Try it some time w/out bagging on someone and see what kind of response you get. Just b/c you don't agree with his opinion doesn't mean either of you are wrong. Dude, you gotta calm down and try to treat everyone with respect.

I wonder what it would be like if we all changed our names to numbers for a week and nobody knew who was who, would you still respond the same way not knowing it was Strafen or Go Broncos?

That is an interesting idea. Is this possible? Can we do this? If we can, I'm all for it. Might be fun to see if we can figure out who is who.

We would also have to turn off avatars and anything else that makes us standout.

Taco?

Meck77
12-01-2010, 10:11 PM
We could all make a little effort to be kinder. Beezer woud be proud!

misturanderson
12-02-2010, 12:01 AM
I wonder what it would be like if we all changed our names to numbers for a week and nobody knew who was who, would you still respond the same way not knowing it was Strafen or Go Broncos?

Those were two terrible examples. It would be easy as hell to pick out those two based on style and content of their posts.

The general idea may not be a bad one though.

Broncoman13
12-02-2010, 06:38 AM
Those were two terrible examples. It would be easy as hell to pick out those two based on style and content of their posts.

The general idea may not be a bad one though.

True, probably not a great example as they are very one sided in their views. Same can be said for Tsiguy or MVP. But it would be interesting to see who could pick out the members that are more analytical and balanced with their views. There are plenty of us out there that aren't real happy with McD and certainly not satisfied with his performance or product, but are also understanding of the circumstance and would be supportive of him for another year... With some restructuring within the front office.

A couple of posts earlier it was mentioned that Elway could be doomed from the start if he was to keep McD. Not sure I agree with that. I think the fans in Denver would be supportive of just about anything Elway did... At least at the beginning. It would give McD at least one more year to right the ship and if it didn't look good after that, you can make the change. I still think the biggest limiting factor right now is, even if you wanted to fire McD right now, who would be your interim coach? McCoy doesn't appear to do much and as bad as McD has been, would you consider Wink a suitable sub... Even if for only a few games?

As for a new coach. The CBA is the wildcats here. If there is no CBA a new coach would not be able to work with the players. When the Cowboys fired Phillips this was discussed quite a bit. Two-three weeks is all a new HC would have to install his system. New players to review and assess, system fits, terminology, and in general scheme understanding would be impossible in that short of a period. It would be like Todd Haley switching schemes 3 weeks before the season last year. It wasnt pretty and took half of the season for them to get going.

Speaking of the Chefs, has anybody seen Cassel's TD to Int ratio? Pretty impressive considering he doesn't look like a franchise QB to me. 22 TDs and 4 Ints. You may see him in the Probowl if he ends up with 30 TDs and less than 10 Ints... And a winning record.

crawdad
12-02-2010, 06:40 AM
Speaking of the Chefs, has anybody seen Cassel's TD to Int ratio? Pretty impressive considering he doesn't look like a franchise QB to me. 22 TDs and 4 Ints. You may see him in the Probowl if he ends up with 30 TDs and less than 10 Ints... And a winning record.

Sad, but true!

tsiguy96
12-02-2010, 06:57 AM
True, probably not a great example as they are very one sided in their views. Same can be said for Tsiguy or MVP. But it would be interesting to see who could pick out the members that are more analytical and balanced with their views. There are plenty of us out there that aren't real happy with McD and certainly not satisfied with his performance or product, but are also understanding of the circumstance and would be supportive of him for another year... With some restructuring within the front office.

A couple of posts earlier it was mentioned that Elway could be doomed from the start if he was to keep McD. Not sure I agree with that. I think the fans in Denver would be supportive of just about anything Elway did... At least at the beginning. It would give McD at least one more year to right the ship and if it didn't look good after that, you can make the change. I still think the biggest limiting factor right now is, even if you wanted to fire McD right now, who would be your interim coach? McCoy doesn't appear to do much and as bad as McD has been, would you consider Wink a suitable sub... Even if for only a few games?

As for a new coach. The CBA is the wildcats here. If there is no CBA a new coach would not be able to work with the players. When the Cowboys fired Phillips this was discussed quite a bit. Two-three weeks is all a new HC would have to install his system. New players to review and assess, system fits, terminology, and in general scheme understanding would be impossible in that short of a period. It would be like Todd Haley switching schemes 3 weeks before the season last year. It wasnt pretty and took half of the season for them to get going.

Speaking of the Chefs, has anybody seen Cassel's TD to Int ratio? Pretty impressive considering he doesn't look like a franchise QB to me. 22 TDs and 4 Ints. You may see him in the Probowl if he ends up with 30 TDs and less than 10 Ints... And a winning record.

yea, like over the past 2 weeks when people have been saying there needs to be a real improvement at some point in the season for me to stay on the mcd bandwagon.

try read and comprehending what its like to be a logical fan who realizes this is nothing to go f-ing crazy over before you starting judging people.

Rabb
12-02-2010, 08:00 AM
you guys are awesome, never change

dsmoot
12-02-2010, 08:58 AM
The divisiveness will stop when the team is headed in the right direction and the product on the field improves.

Most of us are in shock right now, as we have never seen the team in this state, and for those who have, its been 40 years.


Thank you Rock for clearly defining a problem that has degraded this very good website. Bravo.

If it takes winning or improvement to stop divisiveness and/or bad behavior among each other ... that is a cop out. We are all adults. We can treat each other with respect and tolerance even if the Broncos don't win another game. We are in control of our own selves, not circumstances.

Bravo, Rock.

rbackfactory80
12-02-2010, 09:15 AM
Many people gang up like high school girls on several posters on this site. That's the immaturity aspect. Then we have the people that attack others post because they don't agree with them. Then we have posters who are such miserable pricks that they read the mane not for its content, but instead to criticize and try to pick apart several posters arguments failing to even get the big picture of the post. They result to finding a flaw in an argument and immediately stating the argument is wrong, which is often not the case. They treat the Mane more like a homework assignment and are extremely petty. Some posters attack others for grammatical errors. Some posters repeat the same thing every time they post. Some posters cling to arguments well beyond their shelf life. Some posters can't let go of the past. Some posters never gave McD a chance. Some posters became fans of other teams. Some poster don't ever post about football.

Did I leave anyone out? Truth of the matter is many on this board like to argue but don't know the first thing about convincing someone their argument is the correct one. People don't use persuasive tactics but instead cram arguments down others throats, which works about never. This board is just like every neighborhood, workplace, city, country or segment of any population. There are people we won't ever know or agree with and because of that we don't treat them with any respect. If someone disrespects me on these boards who is not doing so in a playful manner, I don't put them on ignore, but just don't pay attention.

bowtown
12-02-2010, 09:21 AM
Thank you Rock for clearly defining a problem that has degraded this very good website. Bravo.

If it takes winning or improvement to stop divisiveness and/or bad behavior among each other ... that is a cop out. We are all adults. We can treat each other with respect and tolerance even if the Broncos don't win another game. We are in control of our own selves, not circumstances.

Bravo, Rock.

Pretty sure this is not the case.

baja
12-02-2010, 09:42 AM
Many people gang up like high school girls on several posters on this site. That's the immaturity aspect. Then we have the people that attack others post because they don't agree with them. Then we have posters who are such miserable pricks that they read the mane not for its content, but instead to criticize and try to pick apart several posters arguments failing to even get the big picture of the post. They result to finding a flaw in an argument and immediately stating the argument is wrong, which is often not the case. They treat the Mane more like a homework assignment and are extremely petty. Some posters attack others for grammatical errors. Some posters repeat the same thing every time they post. Some posters cling to arguments well beyond their shelf life. Some posters can't let go of the past. Some posters never gave McD a chance. Some posters became fans of other teams. Some poster don't ever post about football.

Did I leave anyone out? Truth of the matter is many on this board like to argue but don't know the first thing about convincing someone their argument is the correct one. People don't use persuasive tactics but instead cram arguments down others throats, which works about never. This board is just like every neighborhood, workplace, city, country or segment of any population. There are people we won't ever know or agree with and because of that we don't treat them with any respect. If someone disrespects me on these boards who is not doing so in a playful manner, I don't put them on ignore, but just don't pay attention.

LOL I gotta rep this post.

Popps
12-02-2010, 09:58 AM
True, probably not a great example as they are very one sided in their views. Same can be said for Tsiguy or MVP.

I've seen both posters write very critically about the team and players. Neither is one-sided. Both happen to take a view that is somewhat more patient, upbeat or positive than some around here... but neither is "one-sided."

Your post is a perfect example of why this place is a war-zone. You assume that because someone disagrees with you on a topic, they must be "one sided." But, from what I've seen... you're just as entrenched in your opinions as they are, if not more.

You also created a straw-man to argue with. (One sided.) That's really the biggest Mane downfall, imo. People want to argue or debate an imaginary concept instead of the real crux of the argument. In other words, it's easier for someone to just say that "Popps hated Peyton Hillis," despite me being one of his biggest and earliest fans around here. What's more difficult is dealing with the crux of my argument... which was essentially looking for an answer to why he wasn't contributing with us.

So, there ARE a few one-sided posters around here. We all know who they are and hopefully have them on ignore. I know I do. But, just because someone takes up another side of an issue doesn't make them close-minded or one-sided.

Spider
12-02-2010, 10:19 AM
i am butt hurt now

Miss I.
12-02-2010, 10:21 AM
i am butt hurt now

oh..oh ...oh so many inappropriate responses...must leave now before I type them. :angel:

cutthemdown
12-02-2010, 10:27 AM
Who the hell is crying to the mods??

Get over yourself. You aren't important in the grand scheme!

Well taco said he had tons of messages about JHNS. So obviously someone is crying about it to the mods.

cutthemdown
12-02-2010, 10:29 AM
Really this is the only way things will improve around here unless of course TJ and the mods lay out a conduct policy and start a ban fest of those that don't comply. I would be cleaned up almost immediately.

No you would be left with a boring board and TACO would lose traffic. You think TACO cares about much other then traffic? He will take 10 JHNS who post a lot and rile up the traffic over someone who just goes with the flow any day of the week.

broncogary
12-02-2010, 10:35 AM
Many people gang up like high school girls on several posters on this site. That's the immaturity aspect. Then we have the people that attack others post because they don't agree with them. Then we have posters who are such miserable pricks that they read the mane not for its content, but instead to criticize and try to pick apart several posters arguments failing to even get the big picture of the post. They result to finding a flaw in an argument and immediately stating the argument is wrong, which is often not the case. They treat the Mane more like a homework assignment and are extremely petty. Some posters attack others for grammatical errors. Some posters repeat the same thing every time they post. Some posters cling to arguments well beyond their shelf life. Some posters can't let go of the past. Some posters never gave McD a chance. Some posters became fans of other teams. Some poster don't ever post about football.

Did I leave anyone out? Truth of the matter is many on this board like to argue but don't know the first thing about convincing someone their argument is the correct one. People don't use persuasive tactics but instead cram arguments down others throats, which works about never. This board is just like every neighborhood, workplace, city, country or segment of any population. There are people we won't ever know or agree with and because of that we don't treat them with any respect. If someone disrespects me on these boards who is not doing so in a playful manner, I don't put them on ignore, but just don't pay attention.

I'm not convinced.;D

broncocalijohn
12-02-2010, 10:50 AM
Yup, the sad part is that everyone that you mentioned as well as Moose are capable of very good posts... when not being stalked by one another. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to go back and start an "I told you so thread" against Popps.

Dont worry, you can still post in the Hillis thread.

TailgateNut
12-02-2010, 10:50 AM
Well taco said he had tons of messages about JHNS. So obviously someone is crying about it to the mods.

I've had jhns on ignore for a long time. The only time I have the dis-pleasure of reading his garbage is when someone quotes him.

rbackfactory80
12-02-2010, 10:50 AM
I'm not convinced.;D

You controversial prick.:)

broncogary
12-02-2010, 11:03 AM
You controversial prick.:)

I like to think of myself as "Dangerous George."

broncosteven
12-02-2010, 12:03 PM
...
In other words, it's easier for someone to just say that "Popps hated Peyton Hillis," despite me being one of his biggest and earliest fans around here. What's more difficult is dealing with the crux of my argument... which was essentially looking for an answer to why he wasn't contributing with us.

So, there ARE a few one-sided posters around here. We all know who they are and hopefully have them on ignore. I know I do. But, just because someone takes up another side of an issue doesn't make them close-minded or one-sided.

Kinda like how I stated my opinion on Orton when we traded for him stating that he is a great QB for a rebuilding team, he has a nice touch on his deep ball and would be steady enough for a new HC to implement his system yet I get labled an Orton hater because I am critical of mCd?

BTW so far all my fears about mCd have been validated. If they implement a stronger staff around him I think he could learn in a couple years and realize his potential, I just don't know if Bowlen can be patient enough with him and his suspect talent/character staff that he built.

Popps
12-02-2010, 12:17 PM
I just don't know if Bowlen can be patient enough with him and his suspect talent/character staff that he built.

Oddly, I think this camera nonsense is potentially the biggest issue. Bowlen knows building a winner can take time. He hired McD for a long-term project, not a quick fix. Our "talent issues" aren't nearly as bad as people make them out to be. By that I mean... where we were when Shanahan left v. where we are now. Not a huge difference from a pure talent perspective. We've had injuries and execution issues this season, and we're certainly missing talent... but we were missing talent at the start of 08, too... like an entire defense.

But, this bad PR from the camera junk might be more than Bowlen can put up with if the wins don't start coming. That transcends the normal patience I think he'd have in this situation.

Rock Chalk
12-02-2010, 12:34 PM
Jhns is one of the biggest douches on this site but it's painfully obvious that his 3 word post was nothing but sarcasm.

Are people really that dumb that they need a smilie or an /sarc on every single tongue-in-cheek post?

I didn't read Alec's entire OP but in addition to people mellowing out on each other, I hope to hell he called for a little skin-thickening as well.

People being such pansies is every bit the problem as people "attacking" others.

What a weak ban.

Mostly, people here have thick skin but the hatred on this board has become palpable.

Look, even during the great griese debate, I dont think anyone hated each other despite the intense arguments. It really never devolved into what is going on this year.

I understand the team is bad, and I understand people have frustrations, and I understand that SOME people take this thing - in my opinion - too seriously. But the insults that are going on this year are really bad. I never intended for everyone to "just get along" or start agreeing with each other. A little bit of cordiality is not too much to ask though.

strafen
12-02-2010, 12:36 PM
Mostly, people here have thick skin but the hatred on this board has become palpable.

Look, even during the great griese debate, I dont think anyone hated each other despite the intense arguments. It really never devolved into what is going on this year.

I understand the team is bad, and I understand people have frustrations, and I understand that SOME people take this thing - in my opinion - too seriously. But the insults that are going on this year are really bad. I never intended for everyone to "just get along" or start agreeing with each other. A little bit of cordiality is not too much to ask though.

Hey, but you still hate me, don't you? ;D 8')

Broncoman13
12-02-2010, 12:43 PM
Hahaha lmao at Popps. I point out JHNS and Go_Broncos as one sided and he is silent. Point out two that happen to agree with him on everything (shared perspective) and he is up in arms and defensive. Maybe try looking in the mirror Popps... you may see someone that has issues that affect the board in a biggewr way than most. Btw, it was a contrasting opinion to the one I originally stated and thesupposed biggest problem posters didn't feel the need to come to anybody's defense. What does that say about your ability to let someone have their opinion? If someone doesn't agree with you they are simply wrong. How many times have you said that? You're welcome to your opinion even if it is wrong?!?

Way to take the high ground there buddy, you completely missed the point of my post as well. The point is some posters are automatically dismissed or attacked just as a matter of dislike of the poster rather than the post itself.

Rock Chalk
12-02-2010, 12:44 PM
Hey, but you still hate me, don't you? ;D 8')

I dont hate anyone except Isaac :)

Rohirrim
12-02-2010, 12:45 PM
Mostly, people here have thick skin but the hatred on this board has become palpable.

Look, even during the great griese debate, I dont think anyone hated each other despite the intense arguments. It really never devolved into what is going on this year.

I understand the team is bad, and I understand people have frustrations, and I understand that SOME people take this thing - in my opinion - too seriously. But the insults that are going on this year are really bad. I never intended for everyone to "just get along" or start agreeing with each other. A little bit of cordiality is not too much to ask though.

Part of the problem (IMHO) is that we live in an era of extremism. Nuanced opinions on ANY subject are not acceptable. You have to be all one thing, or all the other. My position on McDaniels is similar to my position on Obama, when I think of it. I've lost faith in him, but I think the best option for the team is for him to finish out his contract and see if he can turn it around. So I'm not very optimistic, but it would be worse for the team to fire him now. Because of that, there are some on this board who would call me a McD nut hugger. That's extremism talking. Life isn't black or white very often.

And then, when we disagree, we are enemies. You see it much more in the political realm, but it seems to be bleeding over into general society more and more.

Rock Chalk
12-02-2010, 12:47 PM
Part of the problem (IMHO) is that we live in an era of extremism. Nuanced opinions on ANY subject are not acceptable. You have to be all one thing, or all the other. My position on McDaniels is similar to my position on Obama, when I think of it. I've lost faith in him, but I think the best option for the team is for him to finish out his contract and see if he can turn it around. So I'm not very optimistic, but it would be worse for the team to fire him now. Because of that, there are some on this board who would call me a McD nut hugger. That's extremism talking. Life isn't black or white very often.

And then, when we disagree, we are enemies. You see it much more in the political realm, but it seems to be bleeding over into general society more and more.

Yeah, I was going to use you as an example of how one can disagree with anothers opinion's on one topic (me and you in the political arena) and still be quite cordial to one another. I deleted it because I didn't want to single any one or group of individuals out in this thread.

Broncoman13
12-02-2010, 12:58 PM
Oddly, I think this camera nonsense is potentially the biggest issue. Bowlen knows building a winner can take time. He hired McD for a long-term project, not a quick fix. Our "talent issues" aren't nearly as bad as people make them out to be. By that I mean... where we were when Shanahan left v. where we are now. Not a huge difference from a pure talent perspective. We've had injuries and execution issues this season, and we're certainly missing talent... but we were missing talent at the start of 08, too... like an entire defense.

But, this bad PR from the camera junk might be more than Bowlen can put up with if the wins don't start coming. That transcends the normal patience I think he'd have in this situation.

Shanahan left the cupboards bare on defense. On offense we were a young and improving team. Franchise QB, franchise LT, franchise WR with a 2nd receiver coming off a 90 catch rookie campaign, a pass catching TE, a RB that is capable of 1200 yards and 15 TDs, and an overall number 1 ranked offensive line. Now we have a journeyman QB. And average OL (due in part to youth and a new system), average RBs, no threat at TE, and the same consistently poor play on defense. As much as we complained about McCree and Manual, is our safety play now any better, how about the defensive line play? The defense's best player is Doom, not much has changed since that 08 season on defense.

Are you willing to say we are more talented, man for man than we were 2 years ago... despite having 8 picks in the first two rounds of the draft? I just don't see this talent you are speaking of. Enlighten me! And explain why this so called talent can't win more than 5 games in the past 21 opportunities. If the talent is there then that is a pretty serious indictment of McD's abilities, IMO.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-02-2010, 01:00 PM
Shanahan left the cupboards bare on defense. On offense we were a young and improving team. Franchise QB, franchise LT, franchise WR with a 2nd receiver coming off a 90 catch rookie campaign, a pass catching TE, a RB that is capable of 1200 yards and 15 TDs, and an overall number 1 ranked offensive line. Now we have a journeyman QB. And average OL (due in part to youth and a new system), average RBs, no threat at TE, and the same consistently poor play on defense. As much as we complained about McCree and Manual, is our safety play now any better, how about the defensive line play? The defense's best player is Doom, not much has changed since that 08 season on defense.

Are you willing to say we are more talented, man for man than we were 2 years ago... despite having 8 picks in the first two rounds of the draft? I just don't see this talent you are speaking of. Enlighten me! And explain why this so called talent can't win more than 5 games in the past 21 opportunities. If the talent is there then that is a pretty serious indictment of McD's abilities, IMO.

Sorry, but you're going to lose a lot of battles calling Cutler a "franchise" QB. Calling Orton a "journeyman" when he's produced the way he has doesn't help your argument much, either.

Broncoman13
12-02-2010, 01:02 PM
Part of the problem (IMHO) is that we live in an era of extremism. Nuanced opinions on ANY subject are not acceptable. You have to be all one thing, or all the other. My position on McDaniels is similar to my position on Obama, when I think of it. I've lost faith in him, but I think the best option for the team is for him to finish out his contract and see if he can turn it around. So I'm not very optimistic, but it would be worse for the team to fire him now. Because of that, there are some on this board who would call me a McD nut hugger. That's extremism talking. Life isn't black or white very often.

And then, when we disagree, we are enemies. You see it much more in the political realm, but it seems to be bleeding over into general society more and more.

Pretty much how I see it. Not happy with McD's performance but think that firing him would actually make it worse... but maybe we need to hit that all time low before we can get better. Like someone said in another thread, it is easier to take a bad team and make them better than it is to take an average team and put them over the hump.

Broncoman13
12-02-2010, 01:13 PM
Sorry, but you're going to lose a lot of battles calling Cutler a "franchise" QB. Calling Orton a "journeyman" when he's produced the way he has doesn't help your argument much, either.

That's fine. Its like saying Kyle Orton is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning b/c he has better numbers. Can we say Matt Cassel with 22 TDs, 4 INTs, and a 99.7 QB rating is a better QB than anyone other than Vick, Brady or Rivers? Using that logic, Brandon Lloyd is better than Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald. KO is having a very good season, but he is hardly a franchise QB. If he was the Broncos wouldn't have traded for Quinn or drafted Tebow... and his extension would have been for 5 or 6 years instead of just 1 or 2.

Rock Chalk
12-02-2010, 01:21 PM
That's fine. Its like saying Kyle Orton is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning b/c he has better numbers. Can we say Matt Cassel with 22 TDs, 4 INTs, and a 99.7 QB rating is a better QB than anyone other than Vick, Brady or Rivers? Using that logic, Brandon Lloyd is better than Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald. KO is having a very good season, but he is hardly a franchise QB. If he was the Broncos wouldn't have traded for Quinn or drafted Tebow... and his extension would have been for 5 or 6 years instead of just 1 or 2.

Those things happened before he had the season he is having. I think, had he had this sort of season last year then he may well indeed have gotten a 5 or 6 year extension and either Quinn or Tebow wouldn't be on the team (one would have for sure because we needed SOMEONE to replace Simms).

It's hard to say for sure. What I do know is that Orton has played like a franchise QB this year. He isn't perfect, and he can still improve but a lot of his problems are directly attributed to being behind the snap count because of lack of a run game and poor pass protection for most of the year.

Rohirrim
12-02-2010, 01:27 PM
Yeah, I was going to use you as an example of how one can disagree with anothers opinion's on one topic (me and you in the political arena) and still be quite cordial to one another. I deleted it because I didn't want to single any one or group of individuals out in this thread.

I thought we agreed on everything? :thumbs:

HAT
12-02-2010, 01:34 PM
My position on McDaniels is similar to my position on Obama, when I think of it. I've lost faith in him, but I think the best option for the team is for him to finish out his contract and see if he can turn it around..

This is a great analogy....I know people who despise Obama & his policies, but 99.9% of them would not want to see him impeached. Let him finish his term, re-assess and go from there.

Broncoman13
12-02-2010, 01:50 PM
Those things happened before he had the season he is having. I think, had he had this sort of season last year then he may well indeed have gotten a 5 or 6 year extension and either Quinn or Tebow wouldn't be on the team (one would have for sure because we needed SOMEONE to replace Simms).

It's hard to say for sure. What I do know is that Orton has played like a franchise QB this year. He isn't perfect, and he can still improve but a lot of his problems are directly attributed to being behind the snap count because of lack of a run game and poor pass protection for most of the year.

I would like to see him improve on 3rd downs before I call hime a franchise QB. 54% comp, and 69.4 rating. In the 4th quarter within 7 points, 55.6% comp, 64.6 QB rating. Jay Cutler, who you know is far from my favorite person, is better on 3rd downs and in the 4th quarter within 7.

Again, I never said that Orton was a bad QB. I just don't have faith in him to bring us back for a 4th quarter comeback. Cutler may throw too many Ints for our liking, but he gets the job done in those close situations more than Kyle Orton.

But you're right, had Kyle Orton had these numbers last year, it may have been a different story for Quinn or Tebow.

Rock Chalk
12-02-2010, 02:22 PM
I would like to see him improve on 3rd downs before I call hime a franchise QB. 54% comp, and 69.4 rating. In the 4th quarter within 7 points, 55.6% comp, 64.6 QB rating. Jay Cutler, who you know is far from my favorite person, is better on 3rd downs and in the 4th quarter within 7.

Again, I never said that Orton was a bad QB. I just don't have faith in him to bring us back for a 4th quarter comeback. Cutler may throw too many Ints for our liking, but he gets the job done in those close situations more than Kyle Orton.

But you're right, had Kyle Orton had these numbers last year, it may have been a different story for Quinn or Tebow.

Area's he can still improve upon sure. But again, the 3rd down thing is misleading as most of our 3rd downs are 3rd and forever due to bad run game, bass pass protection, penalties, etc. 3rd and 8 completion percentage league wide against NFL caliber defenses (note, not Denver's defense) is probably much lower than Orton's numbers.

It all has to be put in perspective. 3rd and 15 is MUCh harder to convert than 3rd and 3.

colonelbeef
12-02-2010, 02:49 PM
Sorry, but you're going to lose a lot of battles calling Cutler a "franchise" QB. Calling Orton a "journeyman" when he's produced the way he has doesn't help your argument much, either.

Cutler is still a better QB than Orton is, particularly when coming from behind or late in games. Better arm, better pocket awareness, better mobility, throws on the run, has a knack for coming back.

When he is making good decisions and getting just a modicum of help up front, he is nearly unstoppable.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-02-2010, 02:51 PM
Cutler is still a better QB than Orton is, particularly when coming from behind or late in games. Better arm, better pocket awareness, better mobility, throws on the run, has a knack for coming back.

When he is making good decisions and getting just a modicum of help up front, he is nearly unstoppable.

And when the refs bail him out twice on the same drive so he can get a first and goal at the one and then settle for a field goal, my goodness... that's Cutler at his absolute apex.

:rofl:

HAT
12-02-2010, 03:11 PM
Cutler is still a better QB than Orton is,

One would hope so....Two 1st's and a 3rd and all.

frerottenextelway
12-02-2010, 03:20 PM
I would like to use this post to proclaim every position on every subject and to use this post to reference I was right all along in future postings.

baja
12-02-2010, 08:36 PM
No you would be left with a boring board and TACO would lose traffic. You think TACO cares about much other then traffic? He will take 10 JHNS who post a lot and rile up the traffic over someone who just goes with the flow any day of the week.

The more guys like jhns show up the more guys like drek leave. Reflect on that and you will see a correlation.

baja
12-02-2010, 09:59 PM
Part of the problem (IMHO) is that we live in an era of extremism. Nuanced opinions on ANY subject are not acceptable. You have to be all one thing, or all the other. My position on McDaniels is similar to my position on Obama, when I think of it. I've lost faith in him, but I think the best option for the team is for him to finish out his contract and see if he can turn it around. So I'm not very optimistic, but it would be worse for the team to fire him now. Because of that, there are some on this board who would call me a McD nut hugger. That's extremism talking. Life isn't black or white very often.

And then, when we disagree, we are enemies. You see it much more in the political realm, but it seems to be bleeding over into general society more and more.

http://www.vimeo.com/16812713

Cito Pelon
12-04-2010, 03:24 AM
Yeah Im not talking about getting along, Im not a dreamer. Im talking about toning it down. But whatever, if you can't respect that then you can't respect that.

Well, I doubt it will ever get toned down around here. You just take it as it comes and deal with it however you want to deal with it.

I don't want this board to get toned down myself. You express your opinion and deal with the consequences.

Cito Pelon
12-04-2010, 03:46 AM
Message boards have a tendency to get younger and younger as the years go by. Young guys talk too much, and listen too little.

I got a neg rep from someone because I didn't jump in here and take this "golden opportunity" to proselytize on Alec's theme. I'm not sure what the point of that would be. Alec made the point. The mods aren't meant to be baby sitters here. We're here to draw boundaries and penalize people when they cross the lines. If people want to bicker with eachother, I say hallelujah have at it. Everyone here carves their own experience based on who and what they pay attention to. If you want to sit here and argue with every last person who calls you a moron, you'll find a neverending line of people willing to take you up on it. If you want to find people to discuss football with, it's quite simple: you discuss football with them.

I don't get wrapped up in all the "this place isn't what it used to be" drama. This place is what it always has been. It's the people who have changed. That's the perogative of time, and I'm not losing any sleep wondering how to make everybody happy. I'm not wringing my hands wondering how I can make strafen and dagmar buddies. Nor did I wring my hands wondering how I could make Gonzolays and Slap pals back in the day.

That's about the size of it. You make your own experience.

Cito Pelon
12-04-2010, 04:06 AM
The emotion is an important element of all of this. Certainly, if people didn't feel so strongly about this team, we wouldn't have several posters with over 20k posts. There are many here (myself included) who devote abnormally high portions of their lives to this board. Naturally, they are going to get REALLY into it. Sometimes that reflects itself in a pleasant way in the sense that this board became known quite quickly as the gold standard of Broncos discussion. People knew there were a bunch of HARDCORE maniacs here who actually got into excrutiating detail about this team. There's alot of people that came here either as casual fans or newbies/team site folks and over time (arguably) became very, very knowledgeable about the Broncos or the NFL or both, because they became ingratiated into the culture of the site and the expectation that if you were going to regularly give takes you better be sure you got up to speed on facts and details and weren't just saying shallow crap.

On the other hand, the hardcore element of all this can manifest itself in the way that Alec is talking about...i.e. discourse becomes extremely uncivil. It is very hard to keep things cool and perfectly logical anytime you are talking about something that is very important to you and when you have a very strong opinion on the topic. Alot of us here have developed strong opinions and we obviously care a great deal since we're here all the time. Certainly, I can agree that posts that are nothing but hateful, personal rants are distasteful, but calling someone a dumbass or a moron as part of exposing what someone might think is hypocrisy or bias or whatever else is just part of this site. People put themselves out there and as they develop their biases sometimes take enjoyment out of seeing the other side of their argument show its failings in a clear way. Well...if you are going to do that (and I've done it)....when the tide turns, its going to get thrown back in your face and its going to be a bit more personal because that's the way it was the other way.

It's very difficult to really divorce the emotional aspect of it when its at least tangentially related to football issues. People are angry because they care. There used to be a time where I lived and died with every game. There were weeks when, no matter what else happened, I would be on a high after we won and there were weeks that I would be depressed for days on end if we lost no matter what good things were happening in my own life. Thankfully, it doesnt affect me that much anymore, either way. I still care a great deal, but I don't get the drug like high when we win and I am not literally in tears anymore when we lose. But I know the feeling and understand where it came from and why it was so important to me.

Don't make me laugh. You're hooked, you're an addict. 8')

cutthemdown
12-04-2010, 04:10 AM
I dont hate anyone except Isaac :)

Oh come on you hate me just a little at least.

Cito Pelon
12-04-2010, 04:40 AM
Shanahan left the cupboards bare on defense. On offense we were a young and improving team. Franchise QB, franchise LT, franchise WR with a 2nd receiver coming off a 90 catch rookie campaign, a pass catching TE, a RB that is capable of 1200 yards and 15 TDs, and an overall number 1 ranked offensive line. Now we have a journeyman QB. And average OL (due in part to youth and a new system), average RBs, no threat at TE, and the same consistently poor play on defense. As much as we complained about McCree and Manual, is our safety play now any better, how about the defensive line play? The defense's best player is Doom, not much has changed since that 08 season on defense.

Are you willing to say we are more talented, man for man than we were 2 years ago... despite having 8 picks in the first two rounds of the draft? I just don't see this talent you are speaking of. Enlighten me! And explain why this so called talent can't win more than 5 games in the past 21 opportunities. If the talent is there then that is a pretty serious indictment of McD's abilities, IMO.

Time will tell. It was time to rebuild, the rebuilding project has barely started, so give it another year. People are too quick to panic seems to me.

Los Broncos
12-04-2010, 05:43 AM
Oh come on you hate me just a little at least.

Hate is a pretty big word.

broncogary
12-04-2010, 05:49 AM
Time will tell. It was time to rebuild, the rebuilding project has barely started, so give it another year. People are too quick to panic seems to me.

I'll tell you when it's time to panic. :-*

Cito Pelon
12-04-2010, 06:15 AM
I'll tell you when it's time to panic. :-*

Whew, I figured it wasn't time yet.

Miss I.
12-04-2010, 06:30 AM
http://www.fiftyisthenew.com/wp-content/uploads/what-me-worry2.gif

RhymesayersDU
12-04-2010, 08:23 AM
Man, I am so hung over it's insane.

Broncoman13
12-04-2010, 08:38 AM
Time will tell. It was time to rebuild, the rebuilding project has barely started, so give it another year. People are too quick to panic seems to me.

After listening to Coach Mac yesterday plead for people to give JE and EB the time it takes to rebuild, I agree with you! It really hit home when He said that is why I was interested in being there the first few years, so that all of the negative during the rebuilding phase could be focused on me. McD doesn't have anybody to take any of the blame. Personnel, coaching, record, it all is focused on McD.

theAPAOps5
12-04-2010, 08:43 AM
And when its that focused and you make blunders and came in already hated by some irrational fans because he coached the Patriots its was even harder. It almost seems unfair to Mcd to give him all that power to start, setting him up for failure.

Broncoman13
12-04-2010, 08:50 AM
And when its that focused and you make blunders and came in already hated by some irrational fans because he coached the Patriots its was even harder. It almost seems unfair to Mcd to give him all that power to start, setting him up for failure.

Thats how I see it too. Can be such a cruel game. All of that trouble and then a 6-0 start to give him a little support... And then BAM!!! Everything turns to shiat and you can't hardly win two games in a row but losing three or four straight is coming easy. Very cruel game. This is why I have put my self between the two camps. I'm willing to keep the kid genius around if he gives up some of those extra hats. Thinking back, this was the same thing I used to say about Shanahan. PB continues to be the problem by repeating the same org. structure.

worm
12-04-2010, 08:54 AM
After listening to Coach Mac yesterday plead for people to give JE and EB the time it takes to rebuild, I agree with you! It really hit home when He said that is why I was interested in being there the first few years, so that all of the negative during the rebuilding phase could be focused on me. McD doesn't have anybody to take any of the blame. Personnel, coaching, record, it all is focused on McD.

If Josh would have stressed a similar rebuilding message, there would be a lot of people that might be more patient. He didn't use the 'R' word though. He wanted to be judged on his record from the word go. He stressed 'accountability'. From him. From his players. From the organization.....all from day 1.

It seems that the latest tact by some posters here is to talk about how this process takes time, you need to take 1 step back to take 2 forward.,..etc.

That well may be true...but that has never been a part of what the Broncos are selling. Not with Mike...and not with Josh.

The organization could have helped Josh with a better support model and Josh could have helped himself by buying more time to implement his system.

errand
12-04-2010, 09:03 AM
Can't disagree with most of your post... but why the gratuitous slap at the mods? ???

:moon:

Because you guys are very inconsistent in doling out punishment for offenders would be my guess.....

Miss I.
12-04-2010, 09:03 AM
If Josh would have stressed a similar rebuilding message, there would be a lot of people that might be more patient. He didn't use the 'R' word though. He wanted to be judged on his record from the word go. He stressed 'accountability'. From him. From his players. From the organization.....all from day 1.

It seems that the latest tact by some posters here is to talk about how this process takes time, you need to take 1 step back to take 2 forward.,..etc.

That well may be true...but that has never been a part of what the Broncos are selling. Not with Mike...and not with Josh.

The organization could have helped Josh with a better support model and Josh could have helped himself by buying more time to implement his system.

I agree that the organization could've given him a better support system, namely a strong GM and limit his power until he's learned the job. However, I am not certain how Josh could've bought himself more time? by stressing it as rebuilding rather than being accountable? I dont' see what his message of accountability has to do with a timeline for rebuilding. Common sense would imply any kind of major leadership change would take time to implement and show any kind of real impact. In most things you see a plan play out of 2 to 4 years (e.g. getting a 2 year degree, a 4 year presidency). Personally I think it will take 4 years to see real change, take place, but I don't think either the fans or management have that kind of patience.

errand
12-04-2010, 09:20 AM
I'm of the thought that a 3-8 start can become an 8-8 finish just as a 6-0 start can...

I'm of the thought that the Broncos success as a team supercedes any one player's personal accomplishments (especially if they're no longer wearing our unifoirms)

I'm of the thought that while mike gave this team it's greatest moments to date, he left it in alot worse condition than many on here would believe.

Josh McDaniels has been our coach for all of 27 games.....to the fans that truly understand what it takes to turn a franchise around, that's nowhere near enough time...to those that have been spoiled by those cobweb covered Lombardi's from the 90's...it's 27 games too many.

Tombstone RJ
12-04-2010, 09:42 AM
Go **** yourself.


:twokisses

Tombstone RJ
12-04-2010, 09:43 AM
love the OP, Alec, you complete me!

Miss I.
12-04-2010, 09:47 AM
love the OP, Alec, you complete me!

You had me at "Can I have" ;D

cutthemdown
12-04-2010, 12:26 PM
:twokisses

Too bad the Broncos didn't end up with that top 10 defense you said you expected from them.

cutthemdown
12-04-2010, 12:28 PM
Hate is a pretty big word.

It's only 4 letters!!! Bands in Lakewood CA at some dive bar called the Flite Room tonight at 9. Got some killer bud I would hate not to smoke with you!!

oubronco
12-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Man, I am so hung over it's insane.

Mix up another one ;D

Blueflame
12-04-2010, 01:39 PM
Because you guys are very inconsistent in doling out punishment for offenders would be my guess.....

You're entitled to that opinion, Errand.

oubronco
12-04-2010, 02:33 PM
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:VvfuhWEK7lg2IM:http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/cherizzledizzle/PissOnChiefs.jpg&t=1

phillybroncosnut
12-04-2010, 04:09 PM
Great post. Your topic is why I rarely post anymore. I still come here everyday and there is still great info and opinions by great posters. However, this place became littered with the old "My d!ck is bigger then yours" takes.

Los Broncos
12-04-2010, 04:37 PM
It's only 4 letters!!! Bands in Lakewood CA at some dive bar called the Flite Room tonight at 9. Got some killer bud I would hate not to smoke with you!!

Cool, I'll try and make it, dont have any plans as of yet.

I got some head band that's really good.

RhymesayersDU
12-04-2010, 04:37 PM
Mix up another one ;D

Dude, round 2 tonight. In fact I think I need to get a quick nap in before the shenanigans.

Los Broncos
12-04-2010, 04:40 PM
Dude, round 2 tonight. In fact I think I need to get a quick nap in before the shenanigans.

What were you drinking?

RhymesayersDU
12-04-2010, 04:40 PM
Lots of beer, lots of shots.

Los Broncos
12-04-2010, 04:41 PM
Lots of beer, lots of shots.

Those were the days.

Broncoman13
12-04-2010, 05:10 PM
If Josh would have stressed a similar rebuilding message, there would be a lot of people that might be more patient. He didn't use the 'R' word though. He wanted to be judged on his record from the word go. He stressed 'accountability'. From him. From his players. From the organization.....all from day 1.

It seems that the latest tact by some posters here is to talk about how this process takes time, you need to take 1 step back to take 2 forward.,..etc.

That well may be true...but that has never been a part of what the Broncos are selling. Not with Mike...and not with Josh.

The organization could have helped Josh with a better support model and Josh could have helped himself by buying more time to implement his system.

Agree we you completely. When you have a fan base that has consistently been a playoff contender and you tell them that your expectation has not changed, even with a new staff and a new direction... Pat Bowlen screwed McD in several different ways.

Hogan11
12-05-2010, 12:16 AM
Now that there is uncalled for. Hit the bricks boy.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mqrtCLU6A54?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mqrtCLU6A54?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>