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Ambiguous
11-30-2010, 08:50 AM
Josh McDaniels has another ghost

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on November 30, 2010, 10:05 AM EST

Troubling statements continue to come out of the Broncos organization about Josh McDaniels.

When owner Pat Bowlen isn’t vacillating about McD’s future, co-workers of the beleaguered head coach talk out of turn about him through the media. Someone within the organization spoke to Michael Silver of Yahoo! about the root of McDaniels’ problems.

“If he treated people right, everybody’d just keep their mouths shut. But when you treat people like a piece of [expletive], this is what happens,” the source said.

More:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/30/josh-mcdaniels-has-another-ghost/

TheProfessor
11-30-2010, 08:57 AM
As much as I do not like him as our coach, this is hard to watch.

It would be more merciful at this point just to fire the poor kid.

Kaylore
11-30-2010, 09:06 AM
I agree it's getting where it's mean spirited. He's not "stupid" he's not "evil" it's not like he is enjoying losing or trying to lose. He just doesn't know what to do and is doing his best. I doubt he'll figure it out in the short term. It's one of those things where the harder he tries the more things blow up in his face. I will never hate Josh because I truly believe he wanted the Broncos to do well and did what he believed would help. He had a clear vision and attacked it to the best of his ability. At the end of the day, it is looking like he was just wrong. Can't hate someone for that.

colonelbeef
11-30-2010, 09:10 AM
I agree it's getting where it's mean spirited. He's not "stupid" he's not "evil" it's not like he is enjoying losing or trying to lose. He just doesn't know what to do and is doing his best. I doubt he'll figure it out in the short term. It's one of those things where the harder he tries the more things blow up in his face. I will never hate Josh because I truly believe he wanted the Broncos to do well and did what he believed would help. He had a clear vision and attacked it to the best of his ability. At the end of the day, it is looking like he was just wrong. Can't hate someone for that.

There is a right way to go about things, and a wrong way. Either everyone else is wrong, or Josh is.

I think at this point it's pretty clear who the antagonist has been in Denver.

Even McDaniels' strongest supporters should have realized this when Nolan left out of nowhere

Rohirrim
11-30-2010, 09:12 AM
Unfortunately, Josh will learn a lot from this disaster and it will make him a much better coach - somewhere else.

rugbythug
11-30-2010, 09:13 AM
I'll I doubt he has more ghosts. More likely just the same talking to someone else.

Chris
11-30-2010, 09:13 AM
or... a better coach in Denver in his 3rd season with new coaches around him and hopefully a real GM that avoids hair gel and terrible goatees.

go_broncos
11-30-2010, 09:15 AM
I agree it's getting where it's mean spirited. He's not "stupid" he's not "evil" it's not like he is enjoying losing or trying to lose. He just doesn't know what to do and is doing his best. I doubt he'll figure it out in the short term. It's one of those things where the harder he tries the more things blow up in his face. I will never hate Josh because I truly believe he wanted the Broncos to do well and did what he believed would help. He had a clear vision and attacked it to the best of his ability. At the end of the day, it is looking like he was just wrong. Can't hate someone for that.

He doesn't have any vision..That's the problem. I never seen a new coach completely change the coaches, player's in couple of years.
In his first press conference, he told that he will build solid and smart football team. Yet, he select player's like Quinn, A.smith, Maroney, Moreno that keeps committing mistakes. He drafts DT(always injured) and Tebow(a project) in first round. He should have concentrated on defense.

Also, his play calling sucks..I don't like Moreno pick..But, he was doing well and suddenly in past couple of games..What did Mcd do..he abandon the running game and we keep throwing the ball..
It's better for everyone that he gets fired.

Jesterhole
11-30-2010, 09:16 AM
I think the amount of leaks coming out is a sign of just how unhappy the staff is. Word is that he took them all in front of Bowlen and lambasted them after one of the losses. Don't do that to the guys you need to support you.

colonelbeef
11-30-2010, 09:16 AM
Unfortunately, Josh will learn a lot from this disaster and it will make him a much better coach - somewhere else.

I have yet to see why people think he will be such an amazing head coach anywhere.

Dude can't get 11 on the field with regularity, makes zero in game adjustments, and is regularly outcoached after the first few series until prevent D in garbage time comes a knockin.

He is terrible in dealing with players, his coaching staff, and has no eye for talent.

He is good at the slant passing game. This makes him a decent QB coach, or mayyyyybe OC with the right OL and QB in place- nothing more.

go_broncos
11-30-2010, 09:22 AM
I have yet to see why people think he will be such an amazing head coach anywhere.

Dude can't get 11 on the field with regularity, makes zero in game adjustments, and is regularly outcoached after the first few series until prevent D in garbage time comes a knockin.

He is terrible in dealing with players, his coaching staff, and has no eye for talent.

He is good at the slant passing game. This makes him a decent QB coach, or mayyyyybe OC with the right OL and QB in place- nothing more.

yep..it's amazing that people think he might become good coach.
I watch all our games..He looks lost on the sidelines once other team takes the lead..He totally changes his game plan(even we are trailing by one point) and we keep passing the ball on all downs.

He reminds me of Lane Kiffin(attitude wise).

missingnumber7
11-30-2010, 09:25 AM
I don't remember if I have ever seen a coaching staff fall apart like this before. I definately see the potential for that to happen in KC with a bad season. But the problem here is its not like Bowlen can fire McDaniels...who on the staff is going to be the interim HC? There isn't anyone thats got the potential.

Rohirrim
11-30-2010, 09:27 AM
I have yet to see why people think he will be such an amazing head coach anywhere.

Dude can't get 11 on the field with regularity, makes zero in game adjustments, and is regularly outcoached after the first few series until prevent D in garbage time comes a knockin.

He is terrible in dealing with players, his coaching staff, and has no eye for talent.

He is good at the slant passing game. This makes him a decent QB coach, or mayyyyybe OC with the right OL and QB in place- nothing more.

I didn't say "amazing" coach. I said "a better" coach.

Reading. It's a neglected art.

TheProfessor
11-30-2010, 09:28 AM
I don't remember if I have ever seen a coaching staff fall apart like this before. I definately see the potential for that to happen in KC with a bad season. But the problem here is its not like Bowlen can fire McDaniels...who on the staff is going to be the interim HC? There isn't anyone thats got the potential.

Fortunately he didn't set the bar too high.

I'm pretty sure anyone on the staff could match the raiders/chagers effort.

Hell keith burns being the head guy for a couple of weeks would be entertaining.

Mile High Shack
11-30-2010, 09:29 AM
I didn't say "amazing" coach. I said "a better" coach.

Reading. It's a neglected art.

I agree with you

we were his on the job training.....he'll learn from all his mistakes and IF he get another chance, I think he will do well

PRBronco
11-30-2010, 09:33 AM
Just our luck...finding the only employee in America who complains about his boss.

Popps
11-30-2010, 09:40 AM
Just our luck...finding the only employee in America who complains about his boss.

:rofl:

This "quote" is already out there, btw. Wasn't new.


I'm just waiting for one single person... present or past... to go on record as saying one single negative thing about him.

Again, I'm 100% open to the idea that McD (or any head coach) could be a pain in the ass.


He must have dealt with hundreds of people, past and present. I'm just asking to see ONE of them go on record as saying anything.

Thus far, we've got ghost-quotes that seemed to arise just as this story broke and people were fighting each other to cover it.

McDaniels may very well be the tyrant some people think.

Hence, it shouldn't be hard to find someone to even hint at it on record.

broncosteven
11-30-2010, 09:40 AM
I agree it's getting where it's mean spirited. He's not "stupid" he's not "evil" it's not like he is enjoying losing or trying to lose. He just doesn't know what to do and is doing his best. I doubt he'll figure it out in the short term. It's one of those things where the harder he tries the more things blow up in his face. I will never hate Josh because I truly believe he wanted the Broncos to do well and did what he believed would help. He had a clear vision and attacked it to the best of his ability. At the end of the day, it is looking like he was just wrong. Can't hate someone for that.

He is way too young and inexperienced to be a HC.

I actually think that if he didn't panic so much and just stuck with his inital philosophy the team would be much better than it currently is.

Everything from:
abandoning the run game early
Not knowing/trying to script plays
letting injury take you out of your base D (Play what your backups practiced in TC!)
Thinking In Game adjustments are overrated
Filling his staff with cheats who don't think twice about cheating
Not being able to motivate players
Not being able to adapt his scheme to players talents
The 2009 draft

He is just too stuborn right now to adapt to change.

He said in the last presser that they wanted to contain Jackson last week, it worked well but when Bradford started slinging the ball he didn't allow the D to adapt because he didn't want Jackson to run on them and he didn't think a rookie could put up 35 points on his ass.

A good HC has to be able to adapt to changes in the game as they occur or he is going to lose. The above explains why the Pats lost their last SB, mCd didn't want to change his protections and the Giants creamed Brady all game long.

If he doesn't figure out how to adapt or tweak his O or D as the game goes along then he does not deserve to be an HC or even OC for that matter.

Popps
11-30-2010, 09:42 AM
He is way too young and inexperienced to be a HC.



http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00077/c4s_rmoris060309_77729c.jpg

Taco John
11-30-2010, 09:43 AM
I'm just waiting for one single person... present or past... to go on record as saying one single negative thing about him.



That isn't going to happen until the people involved aren't working for him anymore.

TheReverend
11-30-2010, 09:45 AM
I agree it's getting where it's mean spirited. He's not "stupid" he's not "evil" it's not like he is enjoying losing or trying to lose. He just doesn't know what to do and is doing his best. I doubt he'll figure it out in the short term. It's one of those things where the harder he tries the more things blow up in his face. I will never hate Josh because I truly believe he wanted the Broncos to do well and did what he believed would help. He had a clear vision and attacked it to the best of his ability. At the end of the day, it is looking like he was just wrong. Can't hate someone for that.

The alleged quotes that are leaking certainly paint him in a way that says "I deserve this 10x over"

Ray Finkle
11-30-2010, 09:47 AM
That isn't going to happen until the people involved aren't working for him anymore.

True but I wonder how much of this is one disgruntled person or a whole faction. The media is dissecting everything that is said/reacted to so it's hard to get a handle....

the only thing I know is a few wins against the AFC West would be ideal for the team right now.

Rock Chalk
11-30-2010, 09:47 AM
That isn't going to happen until the people involved aren't working for him anymore.

Nolan, dennison, Turner all worked for him and all no longer work for him. None of those guys seems particularly coy about mincing words either. Nolan most notably. Yet none of them have said anything.

I'm not leaning one way or another on how McD acts or treats people. Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

jhns
11-30-2010, 09:47 AM
:rofl:

This "quote" is already out there, btw. Wasn't new.


I'm just waiting for one single person... present or past... to go on record as saying one single negative thing about him.

Again, I'm 100% open to the idea that McD (or any head coach) could be a pain in the ass.


He must have dealt with hundreds of people, past and present. I'm just asking to see ONE of them go on record as saying anything.

Thus far, we've got ghost-quotes that seemed to arise just as this story broke and people were fighting each other to cover it.

McDaniels may very well be the tyrant some people think.

Hence, it shouldn't be hard to find someone to even hint at it on record.

No one that is currently working for him will ever go on record. They would lose their jobs and have a hard time finding another if they were known to blast their boss in the media. As for guys like Nolan, many of them have way more class than you give them credit for. Even if someone is a complete douche, it isn't classy to go tell the world that.

You are ridiculous though. We have had a ton of drama since Josh took over. Josh is the common factor in all of the drama and you still are asking for proof of it? Wtf?

DarkHorse30
11-30-2010, 09:51 AM
I've defended him from day one. And now I'm having trouble remembering my reasons.

If he is a "great OC", where is the evidence? I think his playcalling borders on dunderheadedness.

Jason in LA
11-30-2010, 09:51 AM
Another unnamed source. Well there were a number of unnamed sources ripping the coach in Minnesota, and they finally canned the coach. The writing is on the wall here.

Ambiguous
11-30-2010, 09:52 AM
No one that is currently working for him will ever go on record. They would lose their jobs and have a hard time finding another if they were known to blast their boss in the media. As for guys like Nolan, many of them have way more class than you give them credit for. Even if someone is a complete douche, it isn't classy to go tell the world that.

You are ridiculous though. We have had a ton of drama since Josh took over. Josh is the common factor in all of the drama and you still are asking for proof of it? Wtf?

This.

Popps
11-30-2010, 09:54 AM
Another unnamed source. Well there were a number of unnamed sources ripping the coach in Minnesota, and they finally canned the coach. The writing is on the wall here.

Yea, though the "star" QB and that coach were in the midst of a very public feud, and they just traded a 3rd rounder for Randy Moss to save a season where they were supposed to be a SB contender. (And then cut him a few weeks later.)

I agree that unnamed sources can do damage. But, if McDaniels get sent packing... it won't be because of that. It'll be because Bowlen can see the problems internally... and makes a move.

errand
11-30-2010, 10:01 AM
That isn't going to happen until the people involved aren't working for him anymore.

Why not? What's the worse thing that could happen, they get fired and they're no longer working for the asshole they claim he is? If they're such talented people they should catch on elsewhere....

lostknight
11-30-2010, 10:07 AM
In my mind, the big problem has been that the Broncos didn't put Josh in a position to do well. They gave him all of the responsibility that Mike had, without the institutional checks to ensure that it was not too much.

Josh, from day one on, hasn't recognized the need to compromise and work with others. That's the crucial skill for a head coach. We saw it with the Goodmans, we saw it with Cutler, we saw it with Nolan.

This is why I desperately hope that the Broncos are serious about bringing in Elway. It's the only thing that might let us keep him around, long enough for him to grow and become the head coach we need.

Kaylore
11-30-2010, 10:12 AM
The alleged quotes that are leaking certainly paint him in a way that says "I deserve this 10x over"

No way. Sorry, but I will never hate on guy who is trying. Especially a Bronco. I don't think he should be our coach, but this thread clearly shows several of you take this way too seriously. At the end of the day it's a damn game and something fun to watch on a Sunday. People need to calm down. The anger and hatred is absolut redicules.

Rohirrim
11-30-2010, 10:14 AM
No way. Sorry, but I will never hate on guy who is trying. Especially a Bronco. I don't think he should be our coach, but this thread clearly shows several of you take this way too seriously. At the end of the day it's a damn game and something fun to watch on a Sunday. People need to calm down. The anger and hatred is absolut redicules.

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Health/Images/kirk-yelling-kahn.jpg

Taco John
11-30-2010, 10:15 AM
Why not? What's the worse thing that could happen, they get fired and they're no longer working for the a-hole they claim he is? If they're such talented people they should catch on elsewhere....


The worst thing that could happen is they get fired and no one will hire them again at the pro level - which is a very real prospect for any of Josh's hires.

Taco John
11-30-2010, 10:17 AM
No way. Sorry, but I will never hate on guy who is trying.


Unless his name is Hillis? I appreciate your sentiment, but your actions have preceeded your words, my friend. Even now you won't admit that trading Hillis was a mistake.

HILife
11-30-2010, 10:17 AM
He doesn't have any vision..That's the problem. I never seen a new coach completely change the coaches, player's in couple of years.
In his first press conference, he told that he will build solid and smart football team. Yet, he select player's like Quinn, A.smith, Maroney, Moreno that keeps committing mistakes. He drafts DT(always injured) and Tebow(a project) in first round. He should have concentrated on defense.

Also, his play calling sucks..I don't like Moreno pick..But, he was doing well and suddenly in past couple of games..What did Mcd do..he abandon the running game and we keep throwing the ball..
It's better for everyone that he gets fired.

Leave it to you to find a way to disagree with someone who agreed with you. I said Josh was wrong, what more do you want?

Mile High Shack
11-30-2010, 10:18 AM
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Health/Images/kirk-yelling-kahn.jpg

it needs sound

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errand
11-30-2010, 10:20 AM
The worst thing that could happen is they get fired and no one will hire them again at the pro level - which is a very real prospect for any of Josh's hires.

Really? Mike got fired from the Raiders and talked poorly about Al davis....he seemed to have found work elsewhere...did quite well too if i recall.

errand
11-30-2010, 10:24 AM
Unless his name is Hillis? I appreciate your sentiment, but your actions have preceeded your words, my friend. Even now you won't admit that trading Hillis was a mistake.

how was trading him a mistake....for whatever reason he didn't produce or fit into the Broncos plans. He's having a good first in Cleveland, just like Beretrand Berry did in Arizona, and Reggie Hayward did in Jax. pray tell what did they do in year 2 A.D. (After Denver)

do you pine for alphonso smith and his 5 INT's like you pine for Hillis?

I wish all former Broncos well in their post Broncos lives...other than that they're irrelvant to the team now.

TheReverend
11-30-2010, 10:25 AM
No way. Sorry, but I will never hate on guy who is trying. Especially a Bronco. I don't think he should be our coach, but this thread clearly shows several of you take this way too seriously. At the end of the day it's a damn game and something fun to watch on a Sunday. People need to calm down. The anger and hatred is absolut redicules.

I agree. The amount of anger and hatred it would take to belittle each member of your handpicked staff in front of the owner and threaten their jobs instead of taking personal responsibility or meeting with them 1 on 1 is absolut redicules indeed.

Archer81
11-30-2010, 10:28 AM
I agree. The amount of anger and hatred it would take to belittle each member of your handpicked staff in front of the owner and threaten their jobs instead of taking personal responsibility or meeting with them 1 on 1 is absolut redicules indeed.


Unless Jay Glazer somehow was hiding in a desk drawer in that room and has a recording of it, how do we know what was said or how it was said or even if it was said?

Pure speculation there.

:Broncos:

Broncomutt
11-30-2010, 10:32 AM
Really? Mike got fired from the Raiders and talked poorly about Al davis.....

And, you just illustrated Taco's original quote.

That isn't going to happen until the people involved aren't working for him anymore.

:thumbs:

TheReverend
11-30-2010, 10:34 AM
Unless Jay Glazer somehow was hiding in a desk drawer in that room and has a recording of it, how do we know what was said or how it was said or even if it was said?

Pure speculation there.

:Broncos:

That's why I said "alleged"

Gutless Drunk
11-30-2010, 10:35 AM
Unless Jay Glazer somehow was hiding in a desk drawer in that room and has a recording of it, how do we know what was said or how it was said or even if it was said?

Pure speculation there.

:Broncos:

If it wasn't said Josh should have disputed that instead of saying that he was disappointed that it got out. By not disputing it he is tactically admitting it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5863701
"He said his staff meetings are supposed to be confidential "and so to hear something out there about something that was said is disappointing. Again, I don't know exactly what that was or who said it and I'm not going to go chasing ghosts about what that is."

HILife
11-30-2010, 10:37 AM
http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00077/c4s_rmoris060309_77729c.jpg

34 on day one
http://www.nextgengop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mike-tomlin.jpg

34
http://www.mouthpiecesports.com/blogmedia/2009/11/bill-cowher.jpg

That he's to young crap really annoy me.

Archer81
11-30-2010, 10:41 AM
If it wasn't said Josh should have disputed that instead of saying that he was disappointed that it got out. By not disputing it he is tactically admitting it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5863701
"He said his staff meetings are supposed to be confidential "and so to hear something out there about something that was said is disappointing. Again, I don't know exactly what that was or who said it and I'm not going to go chasing ghosts about what that is."


Nobody has any clue except those involved with it. So for a reporter to pretend it was worse when they dont have any ****ing idea is a joke. That is what I have a problem with. So he spoke to his staff in front of the owner. What does that mean? Did Bowlen say anything? Did he ask to sit in or have that occur in his office? Did they deserve the dressing down?

Shenanigans.

:Broncos:

Mile High Shack
11-30-2010, 10:42 AM
34 on day one
http://www.nextgengop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mike-tomlin.jpg

34
http://www.mouthpiecesports.com/blogmedia/2009/11/bill-cowher.jpg

That he's to young crap really annoy me.

were they GMs as well?

zdoor
11-30-2010, 10:44 AM
Unless Jay Glazer somehow was hiding in a desk drawer in that room and has a recording of it, how do we know what was said or how it was said or even if it was said?

Pure speculation there.

:Broncos:

Unfortunately, McDaniels seems to find himself the center of speculation more often than most...

errand
11-30-2010, 10:48 AM
And, you just illustrated Taco's original quote.



:thumbs:

Umm, he said that if they talked poorly about their boss, they'd get canned and then wouldn't be able to find another job in the NFL. mike shanahan got fired by his boss, spoke poorly about his boss, and still found another job in the NFL....

TheProfessor
11-30-2010, 10:48 AM
That he's to young crap really annoy me.

Yeah...

age 32 on day 1

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/50728613.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FD8E2660F3FFEFB88F 6BB44DBA329ABEEC42050C66B58BCB7D79C477E715A14459

Popps
11-30-2010, 10:48 AM
were they GMs as well?

McDaniels is not our GM.

You can speculate on his involvement in personnel decisions, but you'd then have to provide proof that all other coaches stay completely out of those areas.

He's not our GM. If you believe our GM is a figure-head, that's your business... but this argument is solely speculation.

Popps
11-30-2010, 10:50 AM
Yeah...

age 32 on day 1

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/50728613.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FD8E2660F3FFEFB88F 6BB44DBA329ABEEC42050C66B58BCB7D79C477E715A14459

If McDaniels can't do the job, it's not because of his age... it's because he's not qualified to do the job.


Rip into his play-calling on Sunday. That's justified.

But, the age thing is just silly. There are CEO's of much larger, more powerful companies in their 30s.

errand
11-30-2010, 10:51 AM
I agree. The amount of anger and hatred it would take to belittle each member of your handpicked staff in front of the owner and threaten their jobs instead of taking personal responsibility or meeting with them 1 on 1 is absolut redicules indeed.

..and yet ironically, Josh McDaniels was able to interview for the Broncos head coaching job that became open when Mike shanaghan refused to do exactly that to his defensive coordinator

TheProfessor
11-30-2010, 10:55 AM
If McDaniels can't do the job, it's not because of his age... it's because he's not qualified to do the job.


Rip into his play-calling on Sunday. That's justified.

But, the age thing is just silly. There are CEO's of much larger, more powerful companies in their 30s.

age thing is only "silly" if the person in question is not acting immature.

Unfortunately we have seen several issues with josh's maturity.

Rabb
11-30-2010, 10:57 AM
maturity and age don't have a ton to do with one another when it all boils down to it

my mother in law is walking proof

bendog
11-30-2010, 10:59 AM
..and yet ironically, Josh McDaniels was able to interview for the Broncos head coaching job that became open when Mike shanaghan refused to do exactly that to his defensive coordinator

I thought Shanny's end was because he refused to fire the DC? But I really don't recall, so I'm asking politely.

zdoor
11-30-2010, 11:02 AM
I thought Shanny's end was because he refused to fire the DC? But I really don't recall, so I'm asking politely.

I think his premise is firing and dressing down are the same..

bendog
11-30-2010, 11:09 AM
Oh. The dressing down thing is so lame though. Like that's going to get asst coaches to coach better? If their not putting in effort or if they're hopelessly lousy, fire them. If they failed to do specific things, then privately teach them how to do a better job.

Thing with Shanny is that if anyone ever doubted that Bowlen would be better at hiring or firing coaches than Shanny was, they have ample evidence that now matter how epically shanny failed with DC's, Bowlen's worse.

Mogulseeker
11-30-2010, 11:12 AM
I like McD and once he starts winning, he will be a good coach. He has no people skills though and I think that is the source of the problems at this point.

HooptyHoops
11-30-2010, 11:13 AM
maturity and age don't have a ton to do with one another when it all boils down to it

my mother in law is walking proof

Your post cracked me up Rabb!!

bendog
11-30-2010, 11:18 AM
I like McD and once he starts winning, he will be a good coach. He has no people skills though and I think that is the source of the problems at this point.

A person can be a good coach without superior people skills? In what sport?

Ray Finkle
11-30-2010, 11:18 AM
A person can be a good coach without superior people skills? In what sport?

Keenan, Mike.....

UberBroncoMan
11-30-2010, 11:22 AM
Too bad he isn't our OC. I'd take Josh as our OC and and someone else as HC and DC.

bendog
11-30-2010, 11:24 AM
Keenan, Mike.....

try again. He's an asshole but he motivates. mcD is not motivating unless you're counting coaches taking jobs with other teams.

Lev Vyvanse
11-30-2010, 11:26 AM
A person can be a good coach without superior people skills? In what sport?

Bill Belichick :wave:.

HILife
11-30-2010, 11:29 AM
Yeah...

age 32 on day 1

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/50728613.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FD8E2660F3FFEFB88F 6BB44DBA329ABEEC42050C66B58BCB7D79C477E715A14459

Sorry, can't see the pic. I'm guessing that's McD. What's your point?

PRBronco
11-30-2010, 11:29 AM
Keenan, Mike.....

Mike Keenan is a horrible coach!

bendog
11-30-2010, 11:30 AM
I'm more and more convinced posters here have not played sports or worked in high caliber organizations. mike shanahan is the perfect example of an individual who is not a very nice guy, but who can communicate with his staff and through a team effort prepare a plan of action that has a better chance of success than most other coaches/executives. Billicheat is no different.

people with poor people skills fail in these postitios because they cannot communicate their vision to their subordinates/workers.

HILife
11-30-2010, 11:31 AM
If McDaniels can't do the job, it's not because of his age... it's because he's not qualified to do the job.


Rip into his play-calling on Sunday. That's justified.

But, the age thing is just silly. There are CEO's of much larger, more powerful companies in their 30s.

http://newtech.aurum3.com/images/facebook-founder.jpg

Ray Finkle
11-30-2010, 11:33 AM
try again. He's an a-hole but he motivates. mcD is not motivating unless you're counting coaches taking jobs with other teams.

you said people skills.....Keenan motivates by intimidation....he has the people skills of a slug.

Ray Finkle
11-30-2010, 11:34 AM
Mike Keenan is a horrible coach!

not in 1994.....I love him for that season alone.

TheProfessor
11-30-2010, 11:36 AM
Sorry, can't see the pic. I'm guessing that's McD. What's your point?

Dave Shula

bronco_diesel
11-30-2010, 11:39 AM
:rofl:

I'm just waiting for one single person... present or past... to go on record as saying one single negative thing about him.



I think in this day and age, the way information is propagated, opined, then twistedd at such an amazing rate – it is best to just keep things to yourself. Or if you do say anything at all, it is as an unnamed source.

It is too risky for anyone’s current and future employment prospects to have their name attached to a negative story.

bendog
11-30-2010, 11:42 AM
you said people skills.....Keenan motivates by intimidation....he has the people skills of a slug.

If you motivate people you have people skills. Tom Landry scared the **** out of people. Back when Den had a tradition of winning, the coaching staff was quoted with "get good or get gone."

McD's problem is that even if you assume he knows what he's doing with the offense, after two years it's painfully obvious he has made serious mistakes in personnel and defensive assts/coordinators. Now he's down to trying to intimidate assts and video minions who have very little professional respect left for him.

The premise of the "sub thread" was that McD is "a good coach lacking people skills." He is not a good coach and he can't manage his team/assts. That's why the team just imploded with spygatejr and at least two insiders leaking stuff with the intent to damage him professionally.

Ray Finkle
11-30-2010, 11:43 AM
If you motivate people you have people skills. Tom Landry scared the **** out of people. Back when Den had a tradition of winning, the coaching staff was quoted with "get good or get gone."

McD's problem is that even if you assume he knows what he's doing with the offense, after two years it's painfully obvious he has made serious mistakes in personnel and defensive assts/coordinators. Now he's down to trying to intimidate assts and video minions who have very little professional respect left for him.

The premise of the "sub thread" was that McD is "a good coach lacking people skills." He is not a good coach and he can't manage his team/assts. That's why the team just imploded with spygatejr and at least two insiders leaking stuff with the intent to damage him professionally.

I can agree with all your points except the last part. We don't know if it was 2, the same person, or everyone...

HILife
11-30-2010, 11:43 AM
A person can be a good coach without superior people skills? In what sport?

http://www.secsportsfan.com/images/bill_belichick.jpg

Baba Booey
11-30-2010, 11:44 AM
Up through the Jet game I was convinced that McD had this team moving in the right direction. The Jets are 8-3 right now if Renaldo Hill doesn't grab Holmes' facemask. But that's an argument for another day.

The Raider game is where he lost me.

Watching Hillis dominate has also really soured me on him as well. You can argue that he "couldn't pick up the system" or he "had his chance and literally fumbled it away", but when you're dead last in the run and you see a player like Hillis doing what he's doing in Cleveland while Brady Quinn sculpts his guns and holds clipboards, well, just wow...

Cutler is one thing because with our current defense he wouldn't be doing anything either, and Marshall is a baby (not to mention our WR play hasn't suffered without him), but Hillis should still be here.

Basically, you take the blowouts to Oakland and San Diego, the personnel moves this offseason (save for Marshall), and the video taping/treatment of staff rumors and the walls have just completely crumbled.

TheProfessor
11-30-2010, 11:45 AM
at least two insiders leaking stuff with the intent to damage him professionally.

Thats the part that surprises me the most. 2 different sources (assuming the writers aren'tr lying) who are absolutely trying to damage the HC professionally.

HILife
11-30-2010, 11:45 AM
try again. He's an a-hole but he motivates. mcD is not motivating unless you're counting coaches taking jobs with other teams.

a-hole does classify as bad people skills.

TheProfessor
11-30-2010, 11:46 AM
Up through the Jet game I was convinced that McD had this team moving in the right direction. The Jets are 8-3 right now if Renaldo Hill doesn't grab Holmes' facemask. But that's an argument for another day.

The Raider game is where he lost me.

Watching Hillis dominate has also really soured me on him as well. You can argue that he "couldn't pick up the system" or he "had his chance and literally fumbled it away", but when you're dead last in the run and you see a player like Hillis doing what he's doing in Cleveland while Brady Quinn sculpts his guns and holds clipboards, well, just wow...

Cutler is one thing because with our current defense he wouldn't be doing anything either, and Marshall is a baby (not to mention our WR play hasn't suffered without him), but Hillis should still be here.

Basically, you take the blowouts to Oakland and San Diego, the personnel moves this offseason (save for Marshall), and the video taping/treatment of staff rumors and the walls have just completely crumbled.

By the way, did anyone listen to 104.3 thefan yesterday. Alfred Williams and Mark Schelerth were going on and on about the rumor that Hillis was caught hitting on McD's wife, and thats why he was traded.

THE719!
11-30-2010, 11:48 AM
Estoy de acuerdo que es sólo un mal entrenador que necesita habilidades sociales .... hay necesidad de ir fuera de él por completo

zdoor
11-30-2010, 11:49 AM
By the way, did anyone listen to 104.3 thefan yesterday. Alfred Williams and Mark Schelerth were going on and on about the rumor that Hillis was caught hitting on McD's wife, and thats why he was traded.

That would actually be pretty comical...

TheProfessor
11-30-2010, 11:53 AM
That would actually be pretty comical...

They were having a pretty good time with it... not sure if I believe any of it, but it made for good radio yesterday.

bendog
11-30-2010, 11:54 AM
worthless without pics, and this is the best I could do

<img src="http://blog.cleveland.com/bransonwright/2009/01/large_bc12367226_josh2_01132009.jpg">

zdoor
11-30-2010, 11:55 AM
They were having a pretty good time with it... not sure if I believe any of it, but it made for good radio yesterday.

Sounds like BS but pretty funny anyways...

TheReverend
11-30-2010, 11:57 AM
Sounds like BS but pretty funny anyways...

Definitely BS. Hillis could do way better.

Gutless Drunk
11-30-2010, 12:04 PM
:rofl:

This "quote" is already out there, btw. Wasn't new.


I'm just waiting for one single person... present or past... to go on record as saying one single negative thing about him.




Todd Haley "A lot of people are talking **** about you!"

PRBronco
11-30-2010, 12:06 PM
That reminds me. Remember how hot Hillis's sister was? I miss her.

Hulamau
11-30-2010, 12:17 PM
Nolan, dennison, Turner all worked for him and all no longer work for him. None of those guys seems particularly coy about mincing words either. Nolan most notably. Yet none of them have said anything.

I'm not leaning one way or another on how McD acts or treats people. Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

Josh may or may not be a hot head with the players. However as Popps said as well ,not one single credible source has said anything close to that in the press on the record so far.

Not Cutler, Marshall or Sheff for that matter. On the contrary a lot of credible players have stepped up to defend his football knowledge and coaching style.

Players whose position is already assured and would have nothing to gain from going out on a limb defending him if he truly was this Raging Tyrant the Hyteria Boys have always claimed.

If he was really a first class A-hole, guyslike Champ, Dawk, Orton and others just wouldnt say anything at all or offer some luke warm facisimile of a 'no comment' at worst.

But instead you see a bunch of these guys rushing out after the last game defending their imbattled, coach offering a lot of detail as to why they are behind him and think he is a good coach ... that makes no sense at all if he really WAS little Stalin and these guys couldn't wait to get rid of him as the lilly-livered Einsteins on this board continue to spew.

Josh is young and has made mistakes for sure. And with the team in the toilet currently those mistakes are being amplified a lot more as it typical.

He may not survive all this, I dont know. Will be a shame if he doesnt get one more year to turn it all around. I think its a huge gamble to dump him now due to a bunch of panty waste fans who cant endure a tough season or two.

But this has pretty much devolved into a 'Gladiator fan' consciousness society where Donald (you're fired) Trump and American Idolesque mentality with 'Win now or die' reactions are the norm.

The idea of actually building something that might last a while, especially if it involves some hardships and rough sledding for a while, seems like a fading far distant concept for so many people these days.

A pity really, but alas it is as it is and likely wont change any time soon.

Beantown Bronco
11-30-2010, 12:22 PM
Definitely BS. Hillis could do way better.

Doesn't stop Big Ben from going after the fuglies.

Beantown Bronco
11-30-2010, 12:23 PM
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JUipWNw0new?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JUipWNw0new?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

TheProfessor
11-30-2010, 12:30 PM
Josh may or may not be a hot head with hte players. However as Popps said as well not one single credible source has said anything close to that in the press on the record so far.

Not Cutler, Marshall or Sheff for that matter. on the contrary a lot of credible players have stepped up to defend his football knowledge and coaching style.

Players whose position is already assured and would have nothing to gain from going out on a limb defending him if he truely was this Raging Tyrant the Hyteria Boys have always claimed.

If he was really a first class A-hole guyslike Champ, Dawk, Orton and others jsut wouldnt say anything at all or offer some luke warm facisimile of a 'no comment' at worst.

But instead you see a bunch of these guys rushing out after the last game defending their imbattled coach ... that makes no sense at all if he really WAS little Stalin.

Josh is young and has made mistakes no doubt. And with the team in the toilet currently those mistakes are being amplified a lot more than they really should.

He may not survive all this, I dont know. Will be ashame if he doesnt get onemore year to turn it all around. I think its a huge gamble to dump him due to a bunch of panty waste fans who cant endure a tough season or two.

But this has pretty much devolved into a 'Gladiator fan' consciousness society where Donald (you're fired) Trump and American Idolesque .. 'Win now or die' .... reactions are the norm.

The idea of actually building something that might last a while, especially if it involves some hardships and rough sleding for a while, seems like a fading long distant concept for so many people these days.

A pity really, but alas it is as it is and likely wont change any time soon.

I think you are over complicating the issue... If there were any signs of improvement he would almost gauranteed get 1 more year. The problem is he is losing. Since 6-0 he has had several 4 game losing streaks, significant ass kickings to division rivals, and of course we can't forget the constant drama that he is always in the middle of.

Now we have a cheating scandal and a snitch/whistleblower in our midst.

This is a trainwreck, unfortunately people get fired for trainwrecks. If there was something, hell... anything, to hang our hat on it would be different. But it's not. We are worse in every way than we were 2 years ago. Our record, our talent, and now our PR has all taken a significant hit since his arival.

I don't see how that is a knee jerk reaction from a give it to me now society. It's just someone who is failing miserably and most people do not believe he deserves another bite of the same apple.

bendog
11-30-2010, 12:39 PM
The fans ran Saban out of town. This will be no different.

Gutless Drunk
11-30-2010, 12:44 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Josh-McDaniels-ruining-Denver-Broncos-112910
McDaniels' errors way beyond Spygate II
Adam Schein


I laugh when I hear someone say Josh McDaniels deserves to be fired by the Broncos because of “Spygate II,” because “rogue” videographer Steve Scarnecchia taped the Niners walk-through in London. This is one of the funniest takes I’ve ever heard. I crack up when I hear talking heads debating whether McDaniels knew about the taping. I double over in hysterics when I see debate on whether the fine was enough.

Good morning, great people of this planet. Spygate II means very little, other than firing McDaniels with cause and saving money.

McDaniels deserves to be fired for sheer incompetence, for awful people skills that have caused talent to leave the building, for some of the worst personnel decisions in the past two years, for losing games at a rapid rate.

This isn’t about whether McDaniels reported Scarnecchia in a timely fashion.

This is about McDaniels single-handedly ruining one of the best franchises in the NFL.

The Josh McDaniels era (actually, let’s go with the Josh McDaniels error) has been two years of slipping on a banana peel, showing he has no clue how to run an organization. It has been an absolute comedy of errors since he walked into the building.

Let’s remind everyone Denver owner Pat Bowlen canned Hall of Fame coach Mike Shanahan because of a late-season collapse in 2008, the inability to beat Buffalo and San Diego in the final weeks to make the playoffs. Shanahan refused to change his defensive coordinator (remember that), and Bowlen pulled the trigger on his longtime genius.

It’s worth jogging the mental Rolodex that this was not a rebuilding or retooling situation. The expectations were for McDaniels, part of the Bill Belichick tree, to get the Broncos into the playoffs in 2009. And McDaniels has failed, and failed to epic proportions.

It all went horribly wrong right after McDaniels was hired. He ignored the fact that he employed the talented Jay Cutler and decided to inquire about obtaining Matt Cassel, a quarterback he worked with successfully in New England when Tom Brady was injured. It was a huge mistake. It showed McDaniels’ inexperience in being a head coach and executive. It showed he didn’t understand the inner workings of the media and how his inquiry would morph into a major breaking story.

As a result, Cutler never trusted McDaniels again, and it led the Broncos to trade their franchise quarterback, something they never planned on doing when the coach was hired. Go back to McDaniels’ first news conference. Read the early Bowlen commentary on what McDaniels and Cutler could do together. Players started looking sideways. Trust was broken.


McDaniels’ relationships with Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler would eventually lead to these offensive weapons being traded the next offseason.

While Marshall was an off-the-field knucklehead, McDaniels never really took the time to try to make it work. And he seemingly had instant disdain for the pass-catching tight end Scheffler. And if boy wonder McDaniels thought he wasn’t a fit, then Scheffler, despite catching 49 balls in 2007 and 40 in 2008, wasn’t a fit.

McDaniels’ frosty personality and clumsy management style chased Cutler, Marshall and Scheffler. And this gets the headlines. But it represents just the tip of the iceberg for inept decisions and futility.

How about spending a first-round draft pick last year on Robert Ayers, who was far from a sure thing? Ayers didn’t record a sack in his rookie season and has just 1.5 this season. There were better players, non-projects, on the board.

But even worse, during the same draft, McDaniels, in a move of both arrogance and ignorance, traded a 2010 first-round pick for the opportunity to draft Alphonso Smith in the second round. Now, we bashed this move when it was made. It was McDaniels’ first NFL draft, and he treated it like a kid dealing baseball cards. Did he learn anything about value, about the art of the deal from Belichick?

You don’t give away a future first-round pick for a second. And for Alphonso Smith! Smith couldn’t even see the field during his rookie year. He was totally lost. And he was so bad McDaniels was forced to trade him after one season to Detroit for non-factor tight end Dan Gronkowski. This represents a flat-out embarrassment. This represents having no clue how to run a team. This represents the lowest of lows in running a war room. Matt Millen knew better!


Peyton Hillis was a Mike Shanahan guy. Hillis, strong and versatile, played great for Shanahan in 2008, including a majestic performance the Sunday after Thanksgiving, barreling over and beating the favored Jets in New York. Hillis was a bit of a Shanahan sensation, playing running back, fullback, special teams, and once was quoted as saying he would play linebacker for Shanahan.

So, of course, McDaniels had no use for him and thus barely played him in 2009. So, of course, he traded Hillis to the Browns for a third-string quarterback, a first-round bust in Brady Quinn in March 2010. And because McDaniels never seems to have a plan, one month later, he drafted Tim Tebow, to help ensure that Quinn had no chance to ever play behind Kyle Orton and the former Florida star. Hillis has been one of the best running backs in the NFL this season in Cleveland. Once again, it shows ego, poor talent evaluation and no direction, no correlation between one move and the next.

McDaniels has had strained relationships with players and coaches. How do you let Mike Nolan leave the building? How do you clash with the only great hire you made to your original staff? Wasn’t the defensive coordinator the big issue for Shanahan and Bowlen? Nolan is well-respected around the league. He was attracted to the McDaniels situation because they have the same agent. As a control freak, McDaniels wasn’t the boss Nolan expected. McDaniels reportedly had an issue with Nolan’s play-calling last season and took issue with the strategy. And thus, the head coach let his best asset go.

All of the above, frankly, is more damning than the controversial pick of Tebow. I happen to like Tebow as a potential pro. It’s more damning than drafting an injured yet supremely talented receiver in Demaryius Thomas is the first round. Being fair, I like both these players. But the issue for McDaniels is whether the Broncos, who needed help on defense, should’ve picked a project quarterback and banged-up receiver in the first round.

And, as Bill Parcells once said, “You are what you are.” The body of work speaks for itself. After a 6-0 start, his team sputtered to an 8-8 finish. The Broncos are in dead last in the AFC West at 3-8. They gave up 59 points at home to the Oakland Raiders in a game where Darren McFadden told us, “It looked like we broke their will.” They gave up 59 points at home to the damn Raiders. It has to make Bowlen ill.

Denver fans should be thankful for Steve Scarnecchia. He hopefully delivered the dagger in forcing a change. As if you needed any more visual evidence that McDaniels is in way over his head. He is a losing football coach. He can’t run an organization.

Coaching the Denver Broncos is a plum job. The NFL is better when the Broncos are relevant. They aren’t right now. Denver needs to hire a legit new general manager, who will hire the next coach. The Broncos need to follow the Falcons model from a few years back after Bobby Petrino quit like a coward.

Denver deserves a winner. You shouldn’t need a rogue videographer to help you see the Broncos don’t have one. There’s no excuse, Pat Bowlen. Save your franchise.

go_broncos
11-30-2010, 12:49 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Josh-McDaniels-ruining-Denver-Broncos-112910
McDaniels' errors way beyond Spygate II
Adam Schein


I laugh when I hear someone say Josh McDaniels deserves to be fired by the Broncos because of “Spygate II,” because “rogue” videographer Steve Scarnecchia taped the Niners walk-through in London. This is one of the funniest takes I’ve ever heard. I crack up when I hear talking heads debating whether McDaniels knew about the taping. I double over in hysterics when I see debate on whether the fine was enough.

Good morning, great people of this planet. Spygate II means very little, other than firing McDaniels with cause and saving money.

McDaniels deserves to be fired for sheer incompetence, for awful people skills that have caused talent to leave the building, for some of the worst personnel decisions in the past two years, for losing games at a rapid rate.

This isn’t about whether McDaniels reported Scarnecchia in a timely fashion.

This is about McDaniels single-handedly ruining one of the best franchises in the NFL.

The Josh McDaniels era (actually, let’s go with the Josh McDaniels error) has been two years of slipping on a banana peel, showing he has no clue how to run an organization. It has been an absolute comedy of errors since he walked into the building.

Let’s remind everyone Denver owner Pat Bowlen canned Hall of Fame coach Mike Shanahan because of a late-season collapse in 2008, the inability to beat Buffalo and San Diego in the final weeks to make the playoffs. Shanahan refused to change his defensive coordinator (remember that), and Bowlen pulled the trigger on his longtime genius.

It’s worth jogging the mental Rolodex that this was not a rebuilding or retooling situation. The expectations were for McDaniels, part of the Bill Belichick tree, to get the Broncos into the playoffs in 2009. And McDaniels has failed, and failed to epic proportions.

It all went horribly wrong right after McDaniels was hired. He ignored the fact that he employed the talented Jay Cutler and decided to inquire about obtaining Matt Cassel, a quarterback he worked with successfully in New England when Tom Brady was injured. It was a huge mistake. It showed McDaniels’ inexperience in being a head coach and executive. It showed he didn’t understand the inner workings of the media and how his inquiry would morph into a major breaking story.

As a result, Cutler never trusted McDaniels again, and it led the Broncos to trade their franchise quarterback, something they never planned on doing when the coach was hired. Go back to McDaniels’ first news conference. Read the early Bowlen commentary on what McDaniels and Cutler could do together. Players started looking sideways. Trust was broken.


McDaniels’ relationships with Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler would eventually lead to these offensive weapons being traded the next offseason.

While Marshall was an off-the-field knucklehead, McDaniels never really took the time to try to make it work. And he seemingly had instant disdain for the pass-catching tight end Scheffler. And if boy wonder McDaniels thought he wasn’t a fit, then Scheffler, despite catching 49 balls in 2007 and 40 in 2008, wasn’t a fit.

McDaniels’ frosty personality and clumsy management style chased Cutler, Marshall and Scheffler. And this gets the headlines. But it represents just the tip of the iceberg for inept decisions and futility.

How about spending a first-round draft pick last year on Robert Ayers, who was far from a sure thing? Ayers didn’t record a sack in his rookie season and has just 1.5 this season. There were better players, non-projects, on the board.

But even worse, during the same draft, McDaniels, in a move of both arrogance and ignorance, traded a 2010 first-round pick for the opportunity to draft Alphonso Smith in the second round. Now, we bashed this move when it was made. It was McDaniels’ first NFL draft, and he treated it like a kid dealing baseball cards. Did he learn anything about value, about the art of the deal from Belichick?

You don’t give away a future first-round pick for a second. And for Alphonso Smith! Smith couldn’t even see the field during his rookie year. He was totally lost. And he was so bad McDaniels was forced to trade him after one season to Detroit for non-factor tight end Dan Gronkowski. This represents a flat-out embarrassment. This represents having no clue how to run a team. This represents the lowest of lows in running a war room. Matt Millen knew better!


Peyton Hillis was a Mike Shanahan guy. Hillis, strong and versatile, played great for Shanahan in 2008, including a majestic performance the Sunday after Thanksgiving, barreling over and beating the favored Jets in New York. Hillis was a bit of a Shanahan sensation, playing running back, fullback, special teams, and once was quoted as saying he would play linebacker for Shanahan.

So, of course, McDaniels had no use for him and thus barely played him in 2009. So, of course, he traded Hillis to the Browns for a third-string quarterback, a first-round bust in Brady Quinn in March 2010. And because McDaniels never seems to have a plan, one month later, he drafted Tim Tebow, to help ensure that Quinn had no chance to ever play behind Kyle Orton and the former Florida star. Hillis has been one of the best running backs in the NFL this season in Cleveland. Once again, it shows ego, poor talent evaluation and no direction, no correlation between one move and the next.

McDaniels has had strained relationships with players and coaches. How do you let Mike Nolan leave the building? How do you clash with the only great hire you made to your original staff? Wasn’t the defensive coordinator the big issue for Shanahan and Bowlen? Nolan is well-respected around the league. He was attracted to the McDaniels situation because they have the same agent. As a control freak, McDaniels wasn’t the boss Nolan expected. McDaniels reportedly had an issue with Nolan’s play-calling last season and took issue with the strategy. And thus, the head coach let his best asset go.

All of the above, frankly, is more damning than the controversial pick of Tebow. I happen to like Tebow as a potential pro. It’s more damning than drafting an injured yet supremely talented receiver in Demaryius Thomas is the first round. Being fair, I like both these players. But the issue for McDaniels is whether the Broncos, who needed help on defense, should’ve picked a project quarterback and banged-up receiver in the first round.

And, as Bill Parcells once said, “You are what you are.” The body of work speaks for itself. After a 6-0 start, his team sputtered to an 8-8 finish. The Broncos are in dead last in the AFC West at 3-8. They gave up 59 points at home to the Oakland Raiders in a game where Darren McFadden told us, “It looked like we broke their will.” They gave up 59 points at home to the damn Raiders. It has to make Bowlen ill.

Denver fans should be thankful for Steve Scarnecchia. He hopefully delivered the dagger in forcing a change. As if you needed any more visual evidence that McDaniels is in way over his head. He is a losing football coach. He can’t run an organization.

Coaching the Denver Broncos is a plum job. The NFL is better when the Broncos are relevant. They aren’t right now. Denver needs to hire a legit new general manager, who will hire the next coach. The Broncos need to follow the Falcons model from a few years back after Bobby Petrino quit like a coward.

Denver deserves a winner. You shouldn’t need a rogue videographer to help you see the Broncos don’t have one. There’s no excuse, Pat Bowlen. Save your franchise.

:thumbsup:

I agree with what he said...Bowlen should fire Mcd before he starts trading few good player's that we have.

Bigdawg26
11-30-2010, 12:50 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Josh-McDaniels-ruining-Denver-Broncos-112910
McDaniels' errors way beyond Spygate II
Adam Schein


I laugh when I hear someone say Josh McDaniels deserves to be fired by the Broncos because of “Spygate II,” because “rogue” videographer Steve Scarnecchia taped the Niners walk-through in London. This is one of the funniest takes I’ve ever heard. I crack up when I hear talking heads debating whether McDaniels knew about the taping. I double over in hysterics when I see debate on whether the fine was enough.

Good morning, great people of this planet. Spygate II means very little, other than firing McDaniels with cause and saving money.

McDaniels deserves to be fired for sheer incompetence, for awful people skills that have caused talent to leave the building, for some of the worst personnel decisions in the past two years, for losing games at a rapid rate.

This isn’t about whether McDaniels reported Scarnecchia in a timely fashion.

This is about McDaniels single-handedly ruining one of the best franchises in the NFL.

The Josh McDaniels era (actually, let’s go with the Josh McDaniels error) has been two years of slipping on a banana peel, showing he has no clue how to run an organization. It has been an absolute comedy of errors since he walked into the building.

Let’s remind everyone Denver owner Pat Bowlen canned Hall of Fame coach Mike Shanahan because of a late-season collapse in 2008, the inability to beat Buffalo and San Diego in the final weeks to make the playoffs. Shanahan refused to change his defensive coordinator (remember that), and Bowlen pulled the trigger on his longtime genius.

It’s worth jogging the mental Rolodex that this was not a rebuilding or retooling situation. The expectations were for McDaniels, part of the Bill Belichick tree, to get the Broncos into the playoffs in 2009. And McDaniels has failed, and failed to epic proportions.

It all went horribly wrong right after McDaniels was hired. He ignored the fact that he employed the talented Jay Cutler and decided to inquire about obtaining Matt Cassel, a quarterback he worked with successfully in New England when Tom Brady was injured. It was a huge mistake. It showed McDaniels’ inexperience in being a head coach and executive. It showed he didn’t understand the inner workings of the media and how his inquiry would morph into a major breaking story.

As a result, Cutler never trusted McDaniels again, and it led the Broncos to trade their franchise quarterback, something they never planned on doing when the coach was hired. Go back to McDaniels’ first news conference. Read the early Bowlen commentary on what McDaniels and Cutler could do together. Players started looking sideways. Trust was broken.


McDaniels’ relationships with Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler would eventually lead to these offensive weapons being traded the next offseason.

While Marshall was an off-the-field knucklehead, McDaniels never really took the time to try to make it work. And he seemingly had instant disdain for the pass-catching tight end Scheffler. And if boy wonder McDaniels thought he wasn’t a fit, then Scheffler, despite catching 49 balls in 2007 and 40 in 2008, wasn’t a fit.

McDaniels’ frosty personality and clumsy management style chased Cutler, Marshall and Scheffler. And this gets the headlines. But it represents just the tip of the iceberg for inept decisions and futility.

How about spending a first-round draft pick last year on Robert Ayers, who was far from a sure thing? Ayers didn’t record a sack in his rookie season and has just 1.5 this season. There were better players, non-projects, on the board.

But even worse, during the same draft, McDaniels, in a move of both arrogance and ignorance, traded a 2010 first-round pick for the opportunity to draft Alphonso Smith in the second round. Now, we bashed this move when it was made. It was McDaniels’ first NFL draft, and he treated it like a kid dealing baseball cards. Did he learn anything about value, about the art of the deal from Belichick?

You don’t give away a future first-round pick for a second. And for Alphonso Smith! Smith couldn’t even see the field during his rookie year. He was totally lost. And he was so bad McDaniels was forced to trade him after one season to Detroit for non-factor tight end Dan Gronkowski. This represents a flat-out embarrassment. This represents having no clue how to run a team. This represents the lowest of lows in running a war room. Matt Millen knew better!


Peyton Hillis was a Mike Shanahan guy. Hillis, strong and versatile, played great for Shanahan in 2008, including a majestic performance the Sunday after Thanksgiving, barreling over and beating the favored Jets in New York. Hillis was a bit of a Shanahan sensation, playing running back, fullback, special teams, and once was quoted as saying he would play linebacker for Shanahan.

So, of course, McDaniels had no use for him and thus barely played him in 2009. So, of course, he traded Hillis to the Browns for a third-string quarterback, a first-round bust in Brady Quinn in March 2010. And because McDaniels never seems to have a plan, one month later, he drafted Tim Tebow, to help ensure that Quinn had no chance to ever play behind Kyle Orton and the former Florida star. Hillis has been one of the best running backs in the NFL this season in Cleveland. Once again, it shows ego, poor talent evaluation and no direction, no correlation between one move and the next.

McDaniels has had strained relationships with players and coaches. How do you let Mike Nolan leave the building? How do you clash with the only great hire you made to your original staff? Wasn’t the defensive coordinator the big issue for Shanahan and Bowlen? Nolan is well-respected around the league. He was attracted to the McDaniels situation because they have the same agent. As a control freak, McDaniels wasn’t the boss Nolan expected. McDaniels reportedly had an issue with Nolan’s play-calling last season and took issue with the strategy. And thus, the head coach let his best asset go.

All of the above, frankly, is more damning than the controversial pick of Tebow. I happen to like Tebow as a potential pro. It’s more damning than drafting an injured yet supremely talented receiver in Demaryius Thomas is the first round. Being fair, I like both these players. But the issue for McDaniels is whether the Broncos, who needed help on defense, should’ve picked a project quarterback and banged-up receiver in the first round.

And, as Bill Parcells once said, “You are what you are.” The body of work speaks for itself. After a 6-0 start, his team sputtered to an 8-8 finish. The Broncos are in dead last in the AFC West at 3-8. They gave up 59 points at home to the Oakland Raiders in a game where Darren McFadden told us, “It looked like we broke their will.” They gave up 59 points at home to the damn Raiders. It has to make Bowlen ill.

Denver fans should be thankful for Steve Scarnecchia. He hopefully delivered the dagger in forcing a change. As if you needed any more visual evidence that McDaniels is in way over his head. He is a losing football coach. He can’t run an organization.

Coaching the Denver Broncos is a plum job. The NFL is better when the Broncos are relevant. They aren’t right now. Denver needs to hire a legit new general manager, who will hire the next coach. The Broncos need to follow the Falcons model from a few years back after Bobby Petrino quit like a coward.

Denver deserves a winner. You shouldn’t need a rogue videographer to help you see the Broncos don’t have one. There’s no excuse, Pat Bowlen. Save your franchise.

100% agreed!!
I think people are really forgetting about Scheffler. He was great with the broncos as a receiving TE and could of made some pro bowls, but McDaniels ran him out and drafted that guy out of north carolina who is a total nonfactor.

PRBronco
11-30-2010, 12:57 PM
Well it's the pure horse **** like that article that should indicate once and for all how the players feel about McD. If they give a damn about their coach we'll see them come out with some actual intensity this week.

Ray Finkle
11-30-2010, 12:59 PM
Schien pretty much admitted he never liked McD and had it out from him from the beginning yesterday....

fontaine
11-30-2010, 01:04 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Josh-McDaniels-ruining-Denver-Broncos-112910
McDaniels' errors way beyond Spygate II
Adam Schein

McDaniels has had strained relationships with players and coaches. How do you let Mike Nolan leave the building? How do you clash with the only great hire you made to your original staff? Wasn’t the defensive coordinator the big issue for Shanahan and Bowlen? Nolan is well-respected around the league. He was attracted to the McDaniels situation because they have the same agent. As a control freak, McDaniels wasn’t the boss Nolan expected. McDaniels reportedly had an issue with Nolan’s play-calling last season and took issue with the strategy. And thus, the head coach let his best asset go.

This is the one mistake that we're all paying for. Nolan had an even worse DL than the one right now, and a bunch of new guys that were just fitting in a brand new defense. Even with that Nolan absolutely maximised every bit of that defense. Using guys like Doom all over the line of scrimmage in stunts, using Andre Davis on late blitzes.

Nolan got more mileage out of that group than I thought possible.

And Josh promptly pissed it all away and promoted a guy who can barely count to 11.

If Josh had just kept his ego in check, we would have an average or even mediocre defense right now and with our offense it would have been MORE than enough to rightly compete for the top spot in a weak AFC West.

Instead we're saddled with yet another hunt for our 8th DC in 11 years. How pathetic is that?

How much of an ego fuelled asshole do you have to be in arguing over the defensive play calling with one of the most respected 3-4 DC in the league as a rookie head coach?

WolfpackGuy
11-30-2010, 01:09 PM
Those are fans booing, not ghosts.

Tombstone RJ
11-30-2010, 01:18 PM
I wouldn't put much credence in one of Schein's articles... isn't he a NY guy through and through?

Listen, if the Broncos weren't getting bad press, they wouldn't be getting any press at all, especially from the east coast.

colonelbeef
11-30-2010, 01:30 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Josh-McDaniels-ruining-Denver-Broncos-112910
McDaniels' errors way beyond Spygate II
Adam Schein


I laugh when I hear someone say Josh McDaniels deserves to be fired by the Broncos because of “Spygate II,” because “rogue” videographer Steve Scarnecchia taped the Niners walk-through in London. This is one of the funniest takes I’ve ever heard. I crack up when I hear talking heads debating whether McDaniels knew about the taping. I double over in hysterics when I see debate on whether the fine was enough.

Good morning, great people of this planet. Spygate II means very little, other than firing McDaniels with cause and saving money.

McDaniels deserves to be fired for sheer incompetence, for awful people skills that have caused talent to leave the building, for some of the worst personnel decisions in the past two years, for losing games at a rapid rate.

This isn’t about whether McDaniels reported Scarnecchia in a timely fashion.

This is about McDaniels single-handedly ruining one of the best franchises in the NFL.

The Josh McDaniels era (actually, let’s go with the Josh McDaniels error) has been two years of slipping on a banana peel, showing he has no clue how to run an organization. It has been an absolute comedy of errors since he walked into the building.

Let’s remind everyone Denver owner Pat Bowlen canned Hall of Fame coach Mike Shanahan because of a late-season collapse in 2008, the inability to beat Buffalo and San Diego in the final weeks to make the playoffs. Shanahan refused to change his defensive coordinator (remember that), and Bowlen pulled the trigger on his longtime genius.

It’s worth jogging the mental Rolodex that this was not a rebuilding or retooling situation. The expectations were for McDaniels, part of the Bill Belichick tree, to get the Broncos into the playoffs in 2009. And McDaniels has failed, and failed to epic proportions.

It all went horribly wrong right after McDaniels was hired. He ignored the fact that he employed the talented Jay Cutler and decided to inquire about obtaining Matt Cassel, a quarterback he worked with successfully in New England when Tom Brady was injured. It was a huge mistake. It showed McDaniels’ inexperience in being a head coach and executive. It showed he didn’t understand the inner workings of the media and how his inquiry would morph into a major breaking story.

As a result, Cutler never trusted McDaniels again, and it led the Broncos to trade their franchise quarterback, something they never planned on doing when the coach was hired. Go back to McDaniels’ first news conference. Read the early Bowlen commentary on what McDaniels and Cutler could do together. Players started looking sideways. Trust was broken.


McDaniels’ relationships with Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler would eventually lead to these offensive weapons being traded the next offseason.

While Marshall was an off-the-field knucklehead, McDaniels never really took the time to try to make it work. And he seemingly had instant disdain for the pass-catching tight end Scheffler. And if boy wonder McDaniels thought he wasn’t a fit, then Scheffler, despite catching 49 balls in 2007 and 40 in 2008, wasn’t a fit.

McDaniels’ frosty personality and clumsy management style chased Cutler, Marshall and Scheffler. And this gets the headlines. But it represents just the tip of the iceberg for inept decisions and futility.

How about spending a first-round draft pick last year on Robert Ayers, who was far from a sure thing? Ayers didn’t record a sack in his rookie season and has just 1.5 this season. There were better players, non-projects, on the board.

But even worse, during the same draft, McDaniels, in a move of both arrogance and ignorance, traded a 2010 first-round pick for the opportunity to draft Alphonso Smith in the second round. Now, we bashed this move when it was made. It was McDaniels’ first NFL draft, and he treated it like a kid dealing baseball cards. Did he learn anything about value, about the art of the deal from Belichick?

You don’t give away a future first-round pick for a second. And for Alphonso Smith! Smith couldn’t even see the field during his rookie year. He was totally lost. And he was so bad McDaniels was forced to trade him after one season to Detroit for non-factor tight end Dan Gronkowski. This represents a flat-out embarrassment. This represents having no clue how to run a team. This represents the lowest of lows in running a war room. Matt Millen knew better!


Peyton Hillis was a Mike Shanahan guy. Hillis, strong and versatile, played great for Shanahan in 2008, including a majestic performance the Sunday after Thanksgiving, barreling over and beating the favored Jets in New York. Hillis was a bit of a Shanahan sensation, playing running back, fullback, special teams, and once was quoted as saying he would play linebacker for Shanahan.

So, of course, McDaniels had no use for him and thus barely played him in 2009. So, of course, he traded Hillis to the Browns for a third-string quarterback, a first-round bust in Brady Quinn in March 2010. And because McDaniels never seems to have a plan, one month later, he drafted Tim Tebow, to help ensure that Quinn had no chance to ever play behind Kyle Orton and the former Florida star. Hillis has been one of the best running backs in the NFL this season in Cleveland. Once again, it shows ego, poor talent evaluation and no direction, no correlation between one move and the next.

McDaniels has had strained relationships with players and coaches. How do you let Mike Nolan leave the building? How do you clash with the only great hire you made to your original staff? Wasn’t the defensive coordinator the big issue for Shanahan and Bowlen? Nolan is well-respected around the league. He was attracted to the McDaniels situation because they have the same agent. As a control freak, McDaniels wasn’t the boss Nolan expected. McDaniels reportedly had an issue with Nolan’s play-calling last season and took issue with the strategy. And thus, the head coach let his best asset go.

All of the above, frankly, is more damning than the controversial pick of Tebow. I happen to like Tebow as a potential pro. It’s more damning than drafting an injured yet supremely talented receiver in Demaryius Thomas is the first round. Being fair, I like both these players. But the issue for McDaniels is whether the Broncos, who needed help on defense, should’ve picked a project quarterback and banged-up receiver in the first round.

And, as Bill Parcells once said, “You are what you are.” The body of work speaks for itself. After a 6-0 start, his team sputtered to an 8-8 finish. The Broncos are in dead last in the AFC West at 3-8. They gave up 59 points at home to the Oakland Raiders in a game where Darren McFadden told us, “It looked like we broke their will.” They gave up 59 points at home to the damn Raiders. It has to make Bowlen ill.

Denver fans should be thankful for Steve Scarnecchia. He hopefully delivered the dagger in forcing a change. As if you needed any more visual evidence that McDaniels is in way over his head. He is a losing football coach. He can’t run an organization.

Coaching the Denver Broncos is a plum job. The NFL is better when the Broncos are relevant. They aren’t right now. Denver needs to hire a legit new general manager, who will hire the next coach. The Broncos need to follow the Falcons model from a few years back after Bobby Petrino quit like a coward.

Denver deserves a winner. You shouldn’t need a rogue videographer to help you see the Broncos don’t have one. There’s no excuse, Pat Bowlen. Save your franchise.


BINGO on all fronts.

colonelbeef
11-30-2010, 01:32 PM
I didn't say "amazing" coach. I said "a better" coach.

Reading. It's a neglected art.

You said "much better" actually- take your own advice.

Job well done avoiding my point though. Nice strawman.

go_broncos
11-30-2010, 01:34 PM
BINGO on all fronts.

This article pretty much sums up all the things that Mcd has done.
It's amazing that we still have fans that support that *******.

This is my 3000 post..**** you Mcd for trading Hillis.

colonelbeef
11-30-2010, 01:35 PM
I wouldn't put much credence in one of Schein's articles... isn't he a NY guy through and through?

Listen, if the Broncos weren't getting bad press, they wouldn't be getting any press at all, especially from the east coast.

So what? The majority of people in the media are "NY Guys"

Has no effect on their ability to see a crap coach for what he is

zdoor
11-30-2010, 01:36 PM
Schein's takes are about 50/50 most of the time although he's pretty entertaining on the radio. But, I pretty much agree with everything he wrote here...

broncocalijohn
11-30-2010, 01:44 PM
He had a clear vision and attacked it to the best of his ability. At the end of the day, it is looking like he was just wrong. Can't hate someone for that.

Whatever "vision" that is, I dont think it was clear. To him, it was but to everyone else, is was cloudy as hell. His clear vision needs a new set of glasses since his is out of wack. (10 bonus points if you can name the movie for the line and 20 extra points if you beat the clip here before Beantown does)

RaiderH8r
11-30-2010, 01:46 PM
Ouch. "Matt Millen knew better." That's just ouch.

Mile High Shack
11-30-2010, 01:48 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/J...Broncos-112910
McDaniels' errors way beyond Spygate II
Adam Schein


wow, this article was pretty spot on

TotallyScrewed
11-30-2010, 02:03 PM
Nolan, dennison, Turner all worked for him and all no longer work for him. None of those guys seems particularly coy about mincing words either. Nolan most notably. Yet none of them have said anything.

I'm not leaning one way or another on how McD acts or treats people. Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

The flaw in your argument is that all of these people are still working for a living. I thought everybody knew that you don't blast your past employers during an interview. Now, if they were retired and not remotely interested in working for anyone...you might have a point or might not...they may just be mellow enough not to care to get mixed up in it.

broncosteven
11-30-2010, 02:11 PM
http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00077/c4s_rmoris060309_77729c.jpg

I was trying to give mCd an out, apparently he just plain sucks.

zdoor
11-30-2010, 02:14 PM
Ouch. "Matt Millen knew better." That's just ouch.

Yeah, that line stings...

bendog
11-30-2010, 02:18 PM
but is it really true? I'm not saying millen was better, but possibly McD was not worse. I assume he realizes how badly he screwed that up ... but if he's still arrogant enough to try taping a walk through, then he maybe hasn't learned anything from that clusterfk

Kaylore
11-30-2010, 02:20 PM
Whatever "vision" that is, I dont think it was clear. To him, it was but to everyone else, is was cloudy as hell. His clear vision needs a new set of glasses since his is out of wack. (10 bonus points if you can name the movie for the line and 20 extra points if you beat the clip here before Beantown does)

I don't get this. I hear it a lot. "I have no idea what he's doing." I can see clearly what he's doing. It just didn't work. He took away the turnover machine and replaced him with a guy who for all his faults doesn't commit turnovers. We ditched Marshall's idiocy for Lloyd and the production is the same. We brought in players like Dawkins and Jamal Williams for some veteran support to a to that point completely and utterly retarded defenses. We all wanted him to fix the lines. He attempted to do just that by addressing the D-line in free agency and the offensive line in the draft. I still like our group of young O-linemen. I think they just need some seasoning.

The problems? Hillis looks bad even if you think like I do that he was too stupid to play in this offense, if for nothing else than the poor compensation we got. Then the draft picks, most notably Smith, but the other picks haven't shown the production you expect from a first round pick, especially in week two. McBath is made of Glass, Quinn is mentally unable to handle the game, McBean commits a critically bad penalty at least once a game, Dawkins is too old and Tebow, the guy he traded up for, the guy that his actions suggest are requisite to being a major cog of this team, is stuck riding the pine even in blowouts. That Means either he's not ready to play a few snaps, which points to another botched draft opportunity, or a refusal to use what you have.

Then you factor trading for guys that are going to be cut, like Mednenhall, and it's clear he has major issues on the personnel side. I don't disagree with his vision for this team. He has a good idea of where he wants to go but has no idea how to get there and too often lets his emotions get the better of him and others take advantage.

In the draft he reaches because he "loves a guy." In trades he gives away too much for too little because he "needs" a running back, or "doesn't need" a Hillis. In games he goes for it on fourth down and runs it up the middle when a field goal would be fine and when we haven't run it all year just because he's pissed they haven't run it.

Too much emotion, not enough prudence, and no vision for the long term.

coachmastermind
11-30-2010, 02:23 PM
34 on day one
http://www.nextgengop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mike-tomlin.jpg

34
http://www.mouthpiecesports.com/blogmedia/2009/11/bill-cowher.jpg

That he's to young crap really annoy me.


I think AGE and MATURITY are two different things, we all know people who are YOUNG and MATURE (many times well beyond their years), we probably all know people who are OLDER and IMMATURE (many times making us shake our heads). Unfortunatly with McD, I think we have a YOUNG and IMMATURE person. It's his people skills and how he treats people that I think are his biggest problems, not the x's and o's, I don't have near as big a problem in that area, but being the head coach is way more than x's and o's, x's and o's are a coordinators main job, not a head coach, he needs be a leader of men (his staff and players) in this area is where it appears he's immature.

broncosteven
11-30-2010, 02:47 PM
I don't get this. I hear it a lot. "I have no idea what he's doing." I can see clearly what he's doing. It just didn't work. He took away the turnover machine and replaced him with a guy who for all his faults doesn't commit turnovers. We ditched Marshall's idiocy for Lloyd and the production is the same. We brought in players like Dawkins and Jamal Williams for some veteran support to a to that point completely and utterly retarded defenses. We all wanted him to fix the lines. He attempted to do just that by addressing the D-line in free agency and the offensive line in the draft. I still like our group of young O-linemen. I think they just need some seasoning.

The problems? Hillis looks bad even if you think like I do that he was too stupid to play in this offense, if for nothing else than the poor compensation we got. Then the draft picks, most notably Smith, but the other picks haven't shown the production you expect from a first round pick, especially in week two. McBath is made of Glass, Quinn is mentally unable to handle the game, McBean commits a critically bad penalty at least once a game, Dawkins is too old and Tebow, the guy he traded up for, the guy that his actions suggest are requisite to being a major cog of this team, is stuck riding the pine even in blowouts. That Means either he's not ready to play a few snaps, which points to another botched draft opportunity, or a refusal to use what you have.

Then you factor trading for guys that are going to be cut, like Mednenhall, and it's clear he has major issues on the personnel side. I don't disagree with his vision for this team. He has a good idea of where he wants to go but has no idea how to get there and too often lets his emotions get the better of him and others take advantage.

In the draft he reaches because he "loves a guy." In trades he gives away too much for too little because he "needs" a running back, or "doesn't need" a Hillis. In games he goes for it on fourth down and runs it up the middle when a field goal would be fine and when we haven't run it all year just because he's pissed they haven't run it.

Too much emotion, not enough prudence, and no vision for the long term.

REP, yours is the superior.

go_broncos
11-30-2010, 02:52 PM
I don't get this. I hear it a lot. "I have no idea what he's doing." I can see clearly what he's doing. It just didn't work. He took away the turnover machine and replaced him with a guy who for all his faults doesn't commit turnovers. We ditched Marshall's idiocy for Lloyd and the production is the same. We brought in players like Dawkins and Jamal Williams for some veteran support to a to that point completely and utterly retarded defenses. We all wanted him to fix the lines. He attempted to do just that by addressing the D-line in free agency and the offensive line in the draft. I still like our group of young O-linemen. I think they just need some seasoning.

The problems? Hillis looks bad even if you think like I do that he was too stupid to play in this offense, if for nothing else than the poor compensation we got. Then the draft picks, most notably Smith, but the other picks haven't shown the production you expect from a first round pick, especially in week two. McBath is made of Glass, Quinn is mentally unable to handle the game, McBean commits a critically bad penalty at least once a game, Dawkins is too old and Tebow, the guy he traded up for, the guy that his actions suggest are requisite to being a major cog of this team, is stuck riding the pine even in blowouts. That Means either he's not ready to play a few snaps, which points to another botched draft opportunity, or a refusal to use what you have.

Then you factor trading for guys that are going to be cut, like Mednenhall, and it's clear he has major issues on the personnel side. I don't disagree with his vision for this team. He has a good idea of where he wants to go but has no idea how to get there and too often lets his emotions get the better of him and others take advantage.

In the draft he reaches because he "loves a guy." In trades he gives away too much for too little because he "needs" a running back, or "doesn't need" a Hillis. In games he goes for it on fourth down and runs it up the middle when a field goal would be fine and when we haven't run it all year just because he's pissed they haven't run it.

Too much emotion, not enough prudence, and no vision for the long term.

Good Post..

bendog
11-30-2010, 02:53 PM
REP, yours is the superior.

yep, and there's no evidence the odd personnel decisions are getting better. I can hope, and I can hope he can get through the year and that he can find a run game, but it's just hope without any real reason beyond it beats the alternative.

Bronco Yoda
11-30-2010, 03:14 PM
Nolan, dennison, Turner all worked for him and all no longer work for him. None of those guys seems particularly coy about mincing words either. Nolan most notably. Yet none of them have said anything.

I'm not leaning one way or another on how McD acts or treats people. Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

The NFL coaching circle is a very small fraternity. Why would anyone in such a small circle burn bridges unless they absuletly have to. And the people mentioned are class acts. Need I say more?

Ratboy
11-30-2010, 04:02 PM
If KC blows us out,

McDaniels will not finish the season as the Denver Broncos HC.

broncosteven
11-30-2010, 04:07 PM
If KC blows us out,

McDaniels will not finish the season as the Denver Broncos HC.

I think he finishes the year as lame duck until the workstoppage is resolved.

I think it is telling that all of a sudden Bowlen is on the sidelines and he is bringing in Elway and Rod. I don't remember Bowlen on the sidelines so early in games in a long time.

elsid13
11-30-2010, 04:31 PM
Nolan, dennison, Turner all worked for him and all no longer work for him. None of those guys seems particularly coy about mincing words either. Nolan most notably. Yet none of them have said anything.

I'm not leaning one way or another on how McD acts or treats people. Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

None of those guys or anyone currently working for McDaniels will ever go on the record what they really think. The coaching community is to small for them to get a reputation of being a "weasel" and "back stabber" and ever find work in it again.

colonelbeef
11-30-2010, 04:47 PM
None of those guys or anyone currently working for McDaniels will ever go on the record what they really think. The coaching community is to small for them to get a reputation of being a "weasel" and "back stabber" and ever find work in it again.

Precisely.

baja
11-30-2010, 05:18 PM
Nolan, dennison, Turner all worked for him and all no longer work for him. None of those guys seems particularly coy about mincing words either. Nolan most notably. Yet none of them have said anything.

I'm not leaning one way or another on how McD acts or treats people. Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

What the hell did you do buy a bushel basket of logic at a garage sale? You have been amazingly rational and logical this past year or so. ;D

baja
11-30-2010, 05:23 PM
Yea, though the "star" QB and that coach were in the midst of a very public feud, and they just traded a 3rd rounder for Randy Moss to save a season where they were supposed to be a SB contender. (And then cut him a few weeks later.)

I agree that unnamed sources can do damage. But, if McDaniels get sent packing... it won't be because of that. It'll be because Bowlen can see the problems internally... and makes a move.

I just hope it is not a case of Ellis telling Bowlen what he is supposed to think.

"No Pat this is what you meant to say two hours ago here read this statement I've prepared for you to the press. Now call me next time before you go on public record and I'll help you clarify what you really mean to say."

baja
11-30-2010, 05:25 PM
Why not? What's the worse thing that could happen, they get fired and they're no longer working for the a-hole they claim he is? If they're such talented people they should catch on elsewhere....

Nobody want's a proven rat in their nest.

Bronco Yoda
11-30-2010, 05:30 PM
[QUOTE=Kaylore;3025914]Tebow, the guy he traded up for, the guy that his actions suggest are requisite to being a major cog of this team, is stuck riding the pine even in blowouts. That Means either he's not ready to play a few snaps, which points to another botched draft opportunity, or a refusal to use what you have. QUOTE]

You mean like Hillis :giggle:.

driver
11-30-2010, 05:32 PM
Nolan, dennison, Turner all worked for him and all no longer work for him. None of those guys seems particularly coy about mincing words either. Nolan most notably. Yet none of them have said anything.

I'm not leaning one way or another on how McD acts or treats people. Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

"If you can't say something good don't say anything at all." Lot of people were taught this, I was.:)

Taco John
11-30-2010, 08:39 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Josh-McDaniels-ruining-Denver-Broncos-112910
McDaniels' errors way beyond Spygate II
Adam Schein



It's not very often that a FoxSports guy shows as much knowledge about our team as this one does. Hit it out of the park.

strafen
11-30-2010, 11:36 PM
It's not very often that a FoxSports guy shows as much knowledge about our team as this one does. Hit it out of the park.That's a spot on article that best describes how we got to where we are right now.
Excellent analysis...