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tsiguy96
11-29-2010, 06:11 AM
How ironic will it be if Steve Scarnecchia ends up being the final straw in what gets Josh McDaniels fired after the season? The one question no one is asking in the wake of the six-minute tape that got video director and McDaniels friend Steve Scarnecchia fired is who ratted him out? And who spilled information from a private meeting McDaniels had with his coaches Friday to Fox's Jay Glazer -- information that the Patriots' taping practices, in Glazer's words, quoting McDaniels at his meeting, "that was practiced, that was coached, that was worked on.'' Some would view that as throwing the Patriots under the bus. Some would view it as a simple admission of the facts of the league's well-publicized findings against the Patriots.
What you need to know about Spygate II going forward:

McDaniels is adamant that he didn't trash the Patriots in his staff meeting Friday. What Glazer reported is essentially true -- McDaniels did say what the Broncos did was one individual act, and not a systemic, practiced series of videotapings over several years, which the league found the Patriots guilty of in 2007. The meeting was called to share with staffers what they were about to hear concerning the league's fining of McDaniels of $50,000 and the team of $50,000 for Scarnecchia's videotaping of a 49er practice in London the day before the two teams met Oct. 31.

"There were questions at the meeting I had with the staff on Friday in a private staff meeting,'' McDaniels told me last night for a report I aired on NBC's Football Night in America show. "I was asked by someone in the meeting how this compared to the Patriots situation. I didn't try to minimize the seriousness of what we did [in the Denver incident]. I feel bad that it's being represented that I had some inside information about what happened with the Patriots, because I don't.'' Instead, McDaniels told me, he was speaking of the New England case.

Nothing McDaniels said or did will re-open the league's investigation. The league doesn't see the connection between McDaniels' statement and any new information. I was told by one league official Sunday that I was way off base, and there was nothing in Glazer's report to suggest the league has a reason to re-open the case. In the same vein, the Patriots declined comment Sunday, saying, in essence, there was no there there -- no new news.

Videotaping a walk-through, usually, would be a far more educational piece of tape for a coach to watch than viewing the defensive signals and matching them to individual plays, which is what got Belichick in trouble in 2007. I say usually because the 49ers didn't show anything worth seeing in their walk-through the day before playing Denver in London, when the videotaping was done by Scarnecchia. "We purposely didn't show them anything, because we'd been warned about [Scarnecchia],'' said a source close to the 49ers coaching staff. "We didn't run any of the plays we were going to run in the game.'' Normally, though, a Saturday walkthrough might be a team's first X number of offensive plays -- so such a scouting report would be invaluable. "Far more valuable than anything like taping coaches signaling in plays,'' said one official of a different team. "That's why most people will look at this and say the Broncos got off light. If you succeeded in taping a team's walkthrough, you could wreck every one of their first 15 plays or so.''

McDaniels seems to know he's got a traitor in his midst. Leaking what was said in a private meeting -- and leaking it with the possible intent of slanting it to make McDaniels looks bad -- is a sign that a coaching staff and organization could be fracturing from within. I'm pretty sure McDaniels will try to find out who's got the loose lips, though if it's the same person who turned he and Scarnecchia in to Bronco brass he might be hard to find, because of the league's protection of the whistleblower in this case. Said league counsel Jeff Pash on Saturday: "One of the things about our policy and the duty to report is we do make a pledge, and this is not unusual in these settings, we do make a pledge of confidentiality as part of a way of encouraging people to come forward and also protecting people against possible retaliation.'' But McDaniels still has to be troubled that he's got a leak.
None of this will matter if the Broncos keep losing, like they did Sunday to St. Louis. The Broncos leave on a three-game roadie this weekend (at Kansas City, Arizona and Oakland in 15 days), and the road is probably the best place for him to be right now. Less booing there, probably. If the Broncos lose out, McDaniels is probably done. It's a results business, and the Broncos are 5-16 in McDaniels' last 21 games, and the fans have turned on him viciously.
I find all of this sad. I know McDaniels fairly well, and my gut feeling is he neither watched the videotape nor ordered the taping. He's a smart kid with a very strong family background who's made some terrible personnel decisions; Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn, trading a 2010 first-rounder to choose Alphonso Smith in 2009 -- and then dealing him for next-to-nothing a year later. But he's a smart offensive strategist. The Broncos did him no favors by giving him an inexperienced GM, Brian Xanders, who clearly hasn't been strong enough to save him from making some bad personnel calls. The team should have invested in a savvy, veteran GM to help McDaniels navigate his way early.

But in the end, it'll be sad because half of Broncos Nation decided when Jay Cutler got traded and later when Brandon Marshall started acting 11 that it was all McDaniels' fault, and he had to go. It was not all his fault. Cutler never gave McDaniels a fair chance to build a relationship, and then an angry Bowlen -- not McDaniels -- directed that he be traded. Marshall wanted a new contract, thought he was promised it by Bowlen, and didn't get it, and then acted up. I don't see how either of those departures constitutes being run off by McDaniels, but legions of Bronco fans do. If he goes, Denver will have to start over with another coach, and that coach may well have no belief in Tim Tebow as a quarterback of the future, and there would go another prime piece, wasted. And so it goes.

Finally, I've been asked scores of times this weekend why the league went so light on the Broncos -- and I'd agree, because of the potential competitive advantage that could have been gained by taping a Saturday practice. I though Pash explained it well on Saturday. "Here [in Denver] you had, as best we can conclude, a single incident as opposed to, in New England, years of activity. You had an incident that, as best we could identify, was carried out by a single employee without direction from the coaching staff or anyone else at the club. That's obviously different from what we saw in New England where the head coach was actively supervising the activity. And ... from the Commissioner's standpoint, the most important point [with Denver] was that as soon as senior management and ownership was aware of it, they came forward and reported it to our office and cooperated fully in the investigation.''


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/11/28/week-12-monday-morning-qb/index.html#ixzz16gFuLf9B

good stuff on josh mcd. written by a well connected insider who is usually pretty fair to everyone (except randy gradishar). but dont let facts get in the way.

vancejohnson82
11-29-2010, 06:20 AM
you're gonna get ripped on this....

KILL THE MESSENGER!!!

Kaylore
11-29-2010, 06:21 AM
McD can be right about trading those players (I'm still glad he ditched Cutler and Marshall) and still be a bad Head Coach, you know.

jhns
11-29-2010, 06:25 AM
So, McDaniels really surrounded himself with that great character he always talks about! Who cares if he saw the tapes? His horrible personnel decisions have made this team a joke. The excuses are just funny. Cutler didn't give him a chance as he skipped his offseason to come in and work for him? LOL Way to use your brain on that line. Marshall wanted a contract after setting records and jumping off to a HOF start to his career? That bastard!

The bottom line is drama and distractions follow McDaniels. When this happens, it usually isn't everyone elses fault. A 3 year old can figure this out...

Anyways, who cares? At this point there are no excuses. This team is a complete joke on the field. I know, who could have seen this coming after all these wonderful moves?

"But every move he makes is great! We are stronger, better, and filled with team players that always fight!" - Oh yeah, the majority of you dumbasses couldn't figure it out. I guess I can see why you supported the fall of this organization though. It is exactly what I would want to see if I was a Raiders fan...

CEH
11-29-2010, 06:27 AM
If he goes, Denver will have to start over with another coach, and that coach may well have no belief in Tim Tebow as a quarterback of the future, and there would go another prime piece, wasted. And so it goes.


This is the part right now that has me so concerned.

If Josh is fired, I don't want to hire a coach that has to like Tebow.
Tebow is a project QB. With the right coaching he could be a good/franchise QB. Who knows but first thing first I want a strong GM to build a team regardless of Tim Tebow. If they make the decision to stick with Tim fine but if they go the opposite fine as well

jhns
11-29-2010, 06:27 AM
good stuff on josh mcd. written by a well connected insider who is usually pretty fair to everyone (except randy gradishar). but dont let facts get in the way.

LOL

Now that is just funny. Even Bowlen and McDaniels said he was full of crap as he was trying to defend his girlfriend McDaniels last offseason. Now he is a well connected insider? Funny stuff.

vancejohnson82
11-29-2010, 06:31 AM
LOL

Now that is just funny. Even Bowlen and McDaniels said he was full of crap as he was trying to defend his girlfriend McDaniels last offseason. Now he is a well connected insider? Funny stuff.

what a great day for you

im sure you were sweating a bit during the comeback though

TonyR
11-29-2010, 06:32 AM
The Broncos did him no favors by giving him an inexperienced GM, Brian Xanders, who clearly hasn't been strong enough to save him from making some bad personnel calls. The team should have invested in a savvy, veteran GM to help McDaniels navigate his way early.

In my mind this is the key part. I still can't figure out why Bowlen, when firing Shanahan, said he wouldn't give a coach that kind of control again and then proceeded to give a young, inexperienced coach that same kind of control. Makes no sense. This could have worked with a good GM.

jhns
11-29-2010, 06:33 AM
what a great day for you

im sure you were sweating a bit during the comeback though

Says the guy that only posts after losses...

TonyR
11-29-2010, 06:34 AM
The excuses are just funny.

What incentive does Peter King have to make "excuses" for Josh McDaniels? What specifically do you disagree with?

Goobzilla
11-29-2010, 06:37 AM
King forgot to mention showing Mike Nolan the door after last season. That's the kind of guy McD needed to lean on to make this thing work, not perceive him as a threat and run him off. Surrounding yourself with yes men is usually not the path to success.

jhns
11-29-2010, 06:38 AM
What incentive does Peter King have to make "excuses" for Josh McDaniels? What specifically do you disagree with?

I don't know, he has always done it for the Broncos. He is a tsi like Bronco fan. The entire article is "poor McDaniels the victim".... Yeah, all the drama just happens for no reason and through no fault of his own!

He made excuses for him on the Cutler situation, which he is again claiming, that even McDaniels and Bowlen said were completely wrong. Specifically he came out with reports that Cutler didn't give him a chance and was asking for trades after Shanahan was fired. Bowlen, McDaniels, Cutler, and his agent all came out and said it never happened. They even said that after Cutler was traded. He claims Cutler didn't give him a chance as Cutler skipped his offseason to come in and work with him. They worked together for a while with no problems. His excuses are lies and don't even make sense. So, this is a question you need to ask Peter King.

jhns
11-29-2010, 06:41 AM
King forgot to mention showing Mike Nolan the door after last season. That's the kind of guy McD needed to lean on to make this thing work, not perceive him as a threat and run him off. Surrounding yourself with yes men is usually not the path to success.

Great post. It is obvious McDaniels didn't look at anything we have done in the past 10 years as he is making the exact same mistakes as Shanahan.

frerottenextelway
11-29-2010, 06:43 AM
http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/bp6.jpg

TonyR
11-29-2010, 06:43 AM
King forgot to mention showing Mike Nolan the door after last season.

He didn't show Mike Nolan the door.

jhns
11-29-2010, 06:45 AM
He didn't show Mike Nolan the door.

Yeah! They just couldn't work together because McDaniels is a douche to everyone. It was mutual! Get it right...

TonyR
11-29-2010, 06:45 AM
...this is a question you need to ask Peter King.

I think you need to ask yourself if maybe Peter King knows more about the situations than you do. Pretty safe to say that he does, right?

TonyR
11-29-2010, 06:47 AM
They just couldn't work together because McDaniels is a douche to everyone.

This is certainly plausible. But "show the door" directly implies that he was fired. He wasn't. That is a blatant mischaracterization of what happened.

fontaine
11-29-2010, 06:48 AM
McD can be right about trading those players (I'm still glad he ditched Cutler and Marshall) and still be a bad Head Coach, you know.

Exactly. I could care less about Marshall and Cutler. What is far more damning for McDaniels is the way he's failed in the running game (even when Moreno has looked good, he's been underused), and just how inept our defense is.

From McDaniels very first press conference, he emphasized how he was going to strengthen the trenches and cited it as a priority.

Well we had two offseasons, and 10 picks in the first three rounds yet we've gone back-a$$-wards defensively.

Yes having a healthy Doom/Ayers would have helped but how are those guys supposed to:

1. Ensure 11 players get on the field
2. Ensure 11 players are lined up correctly
3. Prevent shoddy tackling
4. Stop Dawkins aging badly

jhns
11-29-2010, 06:49 AM
I think you need to ask yourself if maybe Peter King knows more about the situations than you do. Pretty safe to say that he does, right?

LOL

Sure, and everyone involved in the Cutler situation calling him a liar sure proves that he knows! Maybe he just lied that one time and really know everything else that happens behind closed doors?....

He knows ****. He writes for your entertainment.

colonelbeef
11-29-2010, 06:50 AM
King is a Parcells/Belichick tree ball washer, always has been. He made excuses for Spygate as well.

The bottom line is wins- all of the bs in the world can't cover up the simple fact that this team sucks, period, end of story.

fontaine
11-29-2010, 06:52 AM
King forgot to mention showing Mike Nolan the door after last season. That's the kind of guy McD needed to lean on to make this thing work, not perceive him as a threat and run him off. Surrounding yourself with yes men is usually not the path to success.

No kidding. Nolan had a DL full of guys who are backups this year in Thomas/McBean/Fields, a rookie in Ayers and guys learning the system in their first year with the 3-4.

Martindale is still trying to figure out the mysterious, and enigmatic ways of this so called "number" 11 and how it relates to how many players need to be on the field and whether they line up right.

TonyR
11-29-2010, 06:57 AM
He knows ****.

Possible, but he knows considerably more than you. When were you last in the locker room? When did you last have conversations with players and coaches? How many people around the league are you in regular contact with? To act like you know more than Peter King is a bit silly.

Garcia Bronco
11-29-2010, 06:59 AM
I love how you have to treat a private staff meeting like you are addressing Congress. One of our own coaches blabbed out that this idiot video taped the 49er walk-through. This team is a joke. This coaching staff is a joke. The players, most of them, are jokes.

Rabb
11-29-2010, 07:00 AM
You know, at the risk of being flamed for something petty...one thing that was pissing me off as the Rams put their foot on the gas was McD went into his "alone time" on the sidelines.

I wasn't the only one that noticed either, a couple guys around me commented. Why is it when he should be out there firing someone up or actually...coaching...he is all by his lonesome most of the time with his arms folded?

Again, I am no football guru...but it just looked exactly like it looked during the Raiders debacle to me. He's completely lost me though so maybe I am biased.

jhns
11-29-2010, 07:05 AM
Possible, but he knows considerably more than you. When were you last in the locker room? When did you last have conversations with players and coaches? How many people around the league are you in regular contact with? To act like you know more than Peter King is a bit silly.

To act like Peter King knows anything more than me when it comes to these situations is a bit silly. Neither of us knows **** about a lot of what he is commenting on. Period. What we do know is I understand this sport better than most of you and Peter King. Everyone that ever defended anything McDaniels is doing is completely clueless. It has been so obvious that he was going to fail since he started making moves. I still can't figure out how Bowlen and others didn't see it. It makes me fear that we have Al Davis 2.0 as an owner. That hurts to say too, I love Bowlen. Hopefully someone yells in his ear that we need a GM who gets control.

Goobzilla
11-29-2010, 07:05 AM
I love how you have to treat a private staff meeting like you are addressing Congress. One of our own coaches blabbed out that this idiot video taped the 49er walk-through. This team is a joke. This coaching staff is a joke. The players, most of them, are jokes.

Probably payback for McD berating the coaches in front of Bowlen after the Raider debacle. You should be siding with your coaches not turning on them in an attempt to curry favor or save your own skin.

zdoor
11-29-2010, 07:10 AM
I think the biggest mistake Bowlen made was not putting more experience in place above McDaniels...

bronco militia
11-29-2010, 07:17 AM
The Broncos did him no favors by giving him an inexperienced GM, Brian Xanders, who clearly hasn't been strong enough to save him from making some bad personnel calls. The team should have invested in a savvy, veteran GM to help McDaniels navigate his way early.



BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

someone let Peter King Know Mcsandels has final say in all personel matters.

lostknight
11-29-2010, 07:18 AM
MMQB: I said at the very beginning that the only way I wanted McDaniels was if Pioli came with him. With KC where they are at, and us being where we are at, I think that this is the basis of the problem. Letting Josh (as Klis states) get rid of the Goodman's because he wanted more power - before the Cutler trade - was a huge alarm bell that many were flogging before the season started. Two years later, we are paying the price for that particular series of judgements.

It is interesting that everyone is throwing Pat under the bus here.

The last thing is - if Josh were stupid enough to try and figure out "who leaked", then that would be grounds for termination. Whistleblower laws are there for a reason.

TonyR
11-29-2010, 07:22 AM
What we do know is I understand this sport better than most of you and Peter King.

LOL This right here is a pretty good summation of why your contributions here are so worthless. You're as arrogant and seemingly clueless as the coach you hate so much!

TheProfessor
11-29-2010, 07:23 AM
It doesn't matter anymore, this has gone past the point of no return. It makes me sick to think of us scrapping everything and starting over, but it is what it is. IMO, we would be nuts to give either McD or Xanders control over a top 5 pick.

I normally agree with coaches getting 3 years to implement their system. Unfortunately, this level of futility and embarrassment have consequences, I'm sorry, but he's done.

Also, I hope the rumors of Bowlens health are overblown, because he needs to get control of his organization.

He has a lot of work ahead of him.

TonyR
11-29-2010, 07:24 AM
It is interesting that everyone is throwing Pat under the bus here.

Seriously? No, really, seriously? Bowlen hired McDaniels and gave him the power. He put two inexperienced 30-somethings in charge. And you don't think he deserves most of the blame? He and Ellis are the larger problem here. Getting a new coach isn't going to magically fix the problem.

colonelbeef
11-29-2010, 07:24 AM
LOL This right here is a pretty good summation of why your contributions here are so worthless. You're as arrogant and seemingly clueless as the coach you hate so much!

yeah but jhns isn't ruining our football team, while McDaniels is...

TonyR
11-29-2010, 07:27 AM
...he needs to get control of his organization.

He has a lot of work ahead of him.

Yup. First and foremost he needs to bring somebody in to run the football side of the operation. We've learned the hard way that you don't hand the keys to two inexperienced guys like McD and Xanders.

go_broncos
11-29-2010, 07:29 AM
Any one still supporting Mcd doesn't want Broncos to succeed.
Who cares what King says..It is dumb to give job to a person that was involved in spygate.

I am sick of that ******* that keeps imitating NE style..He doesn't have his own identity. He keeps ****ing throwing the ball all the time..

FIRE THAT ****ING IDIOT, DUMMY, DUMB, ARROGANT, SON OF A BITCH ASAP.

jhns
11-29-2010, 07:30 AM
LOL This right here is a pretty good summation of why your contributions here are so worthless. You're as arrogant and seemingly clueless as the coach you hate so much!

Clueless? I have been right about pretty much everything...

Yes, I am arrogant. It happens when you are right all the time and everyone that is wrong acts like a jackass toward you just because they don't agree.

TheProfessor
11-29-2010, 07:33 AM
As a side note, I can't help but feel bad for Tebow. Regardless of his success or failure, I wanted to see him try.

I doubt we see that happen now, at least not in Denver.

Denver724
11-29-2010, 07:34 AM
A couple other nuggets from King:

j. Peyton Hillis, 131 yards and three rushing touchdowns.

k. Peyton Hillis, 11th in the league in rushing, ahead of Darren McFadden, Ray Rice, LeSean McCoy, Matt Forte, Shonn Greene and Cedric Benson. Their fame dwarfs his, obviously.

l. Peyton Hillis, for whom the Browns will still get two sixth-round picks from Denver, the last two pieces of what's looking like a fantastic trade for Cleveland. Denver got the invisible Brady Quinn in return.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/11/28/week-12-monday-morning-qb/4.html#ixzz16gasqjnf

Rohirrim
11-29-2010, 07:43 AM
What we do know is I understand this sport better than most of you and Peter King.

I do my best to ignore you, but this really deserves a place in the ****head Hall of Fame. Hilarious!

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2010, 07:43 AM
I do love King piling on with the Hillis crap. I'd like to see one link from him or any other "expert" when the trade was announced saying anything about it being stupid of us or lopsided in Cleveland's favor. Someone here already pulled the Clayton quote about us giving up "nothing" for Quinn. I'm sure we could find plenty more saying essentially the same thing.

Every expert is naturally piling on now, yet all of them were fine with the trade when it happened or even went so far as to believe we got the better of them.

Gutless Drunk
11-29-2010, 07:58 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14368869/judgements-time-for-mcdaniels-to-hit-rocky-road

1. Denver's Josh McDaniels has got to go. It's bad enough not to win. But he's embarrassed the organization and the owner who hired him on and off the field. Start with that 5-16 record over his last 21 games, then add "Golden Gate," and it's hasta La vista, baby. Yeah, I know, people say he didn't view videotape of the 49ers' practice in London, didn't condone it and that the Broncos turned themselves in. But the bottom line is this: The head coach is responsible for what occurs on his watch, which means McDaniels has some 'splaining to do. This case has so many questions begging to be answered it would be a heckuva lot easier if Denver just called everything off and admitted what we already know: That McDaniels is in over his head.

jhns
11-29-2010, 08:03 AM
Every expert is naturally piling on now, yet all of them were fine with the trade when it happened or even went so far as to believe we got the better of them.

Yup. A lot of these guys thought these were good moves just like you and many here. Kind of shows how little all of you know. Dumbasses.

jhns
11-29-2010, 08:05 AM
I do my best to ignore you, but this really deserves a place in the ****head Hall of Fame. Hilarious!

Then your best isn't good enough. It must hurt to realize how much smarter I am than you.

Rohirrim
11-29-2010, 08:19 AM
Then your best isn't good enough. It must hurt to realize how much smarter I am than you.

A massive ego defends a weak spine.

jhns
11-29-2010, 08:27 AM
A massive ego defends a weak spine.

Nerds cry about others with egos because they have never had a reason to develope one. Even Dawkins and Champ have huge egos...

Rohirrim
11-29-2010, 08:30 AM
Nerds cry about others with egos because they have never had a reason to develope one. Even Dawkins and Champ have huge egos...

Spineless deflection.

jhns
11-29-2010, 08:35 AM
Spineless deflection.

It is even worse for dumb nerds like you. When you are a nerd and don't even have brains.... Damn.. I would feel sorry for some of you if you weren't such big douches...

bendog
11-29-2010, 08:37 AM
In my mind this is the key part. I still can't figure out why Bowlen, when firing Shanahan, said he wouldn't give a coach that kind of control again and then proceeded to give a young, inexperienced coach that same kind of control. Makes no sense. This could have worked with a good GM.

Wouldn't the obvious answer be that the moves McDaniels made were supported or even motivated by Bowlen?

As for Peter King, the a-hole LIVES in Bah-stahn and Elway and then Shanahan and the broncos OWNED the Patsies.

Rohirrim
11-29-2010, 08:39 AM
It is even worse for dumb nerds like you. When you are a nerd and don't even have brains.... Damn.. I would feel sorry for some of you if you weren't such big douches...

Maybe this will calm you down:
http://www.buzzardblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/pacifier.jpg

bronco militia
11-29-2010, 08:40 AM
As for Peter King, the a-hole LIVES in Bah-stahn and Elway and then Shanahan and the broncos OWNED the Patsies.

he lives New Jersey....

but same smell Ha!

jhns
11-29-2010, 08:45 AM
Maybe this will calm you down:


See? Douche... Don't be mad at me because I'm better than you. You just need to learn to accept the facts and stop acting like a douche to your superiors... It would solve a lot of the problems on this website (and yes, I am talking to all of you douches, not just the one I'm quoting).

bendog
11-29-2010, 08:46 AM
born in springfield mass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_King_(sportswriter)

Gotta be a patsy fan. Elway killed those guys. The year of the first superbowl, the game before the Drive, Elway went down with a knee/ankle in the first half but came out and still killed them. King's dissed Denver for years. He's gotta be a McDaniels excuser.

Jason in LA
11-29-2010, 08:50 AM
"But in the end, it'll be sad because half of Broncos Nation decided when Jay Cutler got traded and later when Brandon Marshall started acting 11 that it was all McDaniels' fault, and he had to go."

I don't buy that statement at all and it's pretty annoying to hear that. McD won over every Bronco fan with a 6-0 start. Broncos fans who were not believers after McD's first offseason, like myself, quickly became believers. The only people who talking about Cutler were the ones who hated him and loved to talk endlessly about his struggles with the Bears. tsiguy did that a lot last year. How many threads did he start about Cutler? That was pretty annoying.

McD lost a lot of fans with a 2-8 finish to the season, and then posting a 3-8 record so far this year. What's the count now, 5-16 in the last 21 games? That's why he lost the fans. Anybody under the age of lets say 40 has never seen this team this bad. Hell, we could say anybody under 45 has never seen anything like this.

The Cutler and Marshall decisions are getting too much attention in this debacle. McD isn't going to find himself out of Denver because of those two moves. 5-16, which will probably be worse by seasons end, will be what gets McD fired, and it is what has the fans pissed off. If the team was on their way to the playoffs then nobody would care about Cutler and Marshall getting the boot by McD.

Bottom line is winning, something that McD isn't producing.

strafen
11-29-2010, 08:50 AM
good stuff on josh mcd. written by a well connected insider who is usually pretty fair to everyone (except randy gradishar). but dont let facts get in the way.And just like that, King gets praises and now all of the sudden he's not the idiot the homers have made him out to be.
Stunning!!!

bronco militia
11-29-2010, 08:56 AM
"But in the end, it'll be sad because half of Broncos Nation decided when Jay Cutler got traded and later when Brandon Marshall started acting 11 that it was all McDaniels' fault, and he had to go."

I don't buy that statement at all and it's pretty annoying to hear that. McD won over every Bronco fan with a 6-0 start. Broncos fans who were not believers after McD's first offseason, like myself, quickly became believers. The only people who talking about Cutler were the ones who hated him and loved to talking endlessly about his struggles with the Bears. That's pretty much all tsiguy did last year. How many threads did he start about Cutler? That was pretty annoying.

McD lost a lot of fans with a 2-8 finish to the season, and then posting a 3-8 record so far this year. What's the count now, 5-16 in the last 21 games? That's why he lost the fans. Anybody under the age of lets say 40 has never seen this team this bad. Hell, we could say anybody under 45 has never seen anything like this.

The Cutler and Marshall decisions are getting too much attention in this debacle. McD isn't going to find himself out of Denver because of those two moves. 5-16, which will probably be worse by seasons end, will be what gets McD fired, and it is what has the fans pissed off. If the team was on their way to the playoffs then nobody would care about Cutler and Marshall getting the boot by McD.

Bottom line is winning, something that McD isn't producing.

excellent summary

bendog
11-29-2010, 09:12 AM
excellent summary

Agreed. Eventually even I bought into the Cutler trade. And BM was a no brainer.

rugbythug
11-29-2010, 09:15 AM
LOL

Sure, and everyone involved in the Cutler situation calling him a liar sure proves that he knows! Maybe he just lied that one time and really know everything else that happens behind closed doors?....

He knows ****. He writes for your entertainment.

If mcd was a liar curled would be here.
curled wanted assurances he would not be traded. Mcd would not give them. Liars give assurances even if they have no intention of backing them.

TheReverend
11-29-2010, 10:30 AM
If mcd was a liar curled would be here.
curled wanted assurances he would not be traded. Mcd would not give them. Liars give assurances even if they have no intention of backing them.

Contractual assurances, genius.

jhns
11-29-2010, 10:59 AM
If mcd was a liar curled would be here.
curled wanted assurances he would not be traded. Mcd would not give them. Liars give assurances even if they have no intention of backing them.

My post was about Peter King. Anyways, if McDaniels wasn't a liar, Cutler would still be here. It was the lie about not talking to the Pats about Cassel that set the whole thing off.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2010, 11:03 AM
See? Douche. Don't be mad at me because I'm better than you. You just need to learn to accept the facts and stop acting like a douche.

jhns' douchebag tendencies wrapped up in one quote.

Telling someone else not to be a douche while you are, in fact, being a douche. Outstanding.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2010, 11:03 AM
My post was about Peter King. Anyways, if McDaniels wasn't a liar, Cutler would still be here. It was the lie about not talking to the Pats about Cassel that set the whole thing off.

And surely you have proof of all this, yes? You were in the room? You know what went on?

Have a pretty good handle on things for a guy who's never set foot inside Dove Valley.

jhns
11-29-2010, 11:09 AM
And surely you have proof of all this, yes? You were in the room? You know what went on?

Have a pretty good handle on things for a guy who's never set foot inside Dove Valley.

Which part? Everything in my post came from Dove Valley. McDaniels has now admitted he talked to the Pats about Cassel and denied it in the media right away. That makes him a liar. Everyone involved in the Cutler situation called Peter Kings breaking news that Cutler wanted out when Shanahan left a lie. So that makes Peter King a liar.

So what part are you having trouble with?

jhns
11-29-2010, 11:10 AM
jhns' douchebag tendencies wrapped up in one quote.

Telling someone else not to be a douche while you are, in fact, being a douche. Outstanding.

I'm allowed to be a douche. I am better than you.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2010, 11:15 AM
I'm allowed to be a douche. I am better than you.

Your mom and girlfriend disagree. On all counts.

Broncoman13
11-29-2010, 11:22 AM
"But in the end, it'll be sad because half of Broncos Nation decided when Jay Cutler got traded and later when Brandon Marshall started acting 11 that it was all McDaniels' fault, and he had to go."

I don't buy that statement at all and it's pretty annoying to hear that. McD won over every Bronco fan with a 6-0 start. Broncos fans who were not believers after McD's first offseason, like myself, quickly became believers. The only people who talking about Cutler were the ones who hated him and loved to talk endlessly about his struggles with the Bears. tsiguy did that a lot last year. How many threads did he start about Cutler? That was pretty annoying.

McD lost a lot of fans with a 2-8 finish to the season, and then posting a 3-8 record so far this year. What's the count now, 5-16 in the last 21 games? That's why he lost the fans. Anybody under the age of lets say 40 has never seen this team this bad. Hell, we could say anybody under 45 has never seen anything like this.

The Cutler and Marshall decisions are getting too much attention in this debacle. McD isn't going to find himself out of Denver because of those two moves. 5-16, which will probably be worse by seasons end, will be what gets McD fired, and it is what has the fans pissed off. If the team was on their way to the playoffs then nobody would care about Cutler and Marshall getting the boot by McD.

Bottom line is winning, something that McD isn't producing.

I am 34 and have never seen anything like this in Denver. I wasn't as emotionally involved as a kid, but I can't remember anything ever stinging like this even going back to the early Elway years... but yeah, you're right. I really don't remember much prior to the early to mid 80's and we had some pretty fun (and competitive) years from that point forward.

I wonder if the feeling would be the same if we were losing games by two or three points similar to what the Browns have been doing. I don't get to see much of their games so I really don't know how competitive they are, but they seem to be in most every game. I think that shows a team that is a few players away. A team that consistently gets "handled" is what most fans are griping about... I think.

I'd be all for bringing in an accountability guy. Hell, bring in Elway to be that guy. He may not know the ins and outs of the business but he would at least buy McD some time with the fan base so that he could turn this thing around. But I'm guessing most fans don't want to see McD get that opportunity at this point. I personally see the issues as more of a Pat Bowlen/Front Office issue than a Coach McD issue. GM McD is a whole issue in and of itself.

Denver724
11-29-2010, 11:49 AM
And here is Clayton's take on this mess.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/notebook/_/page/lastcall10012/john-clayton-last-call

3. Denver Broncos (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos) owner Pat Bowlen might have given young head coach Josh McDaniels a pass for the recent downturn in the Broncos under normal circumstances. Now, I can't see McDaniels coming back for a third season. No coach needed a victory more in Week 12 than McDaniels, who was fined $50,000 and embarrassed the organization when the league found out Broncos videographer Steve Scarnecchia taped a San Francisco 49ers (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/sf/san-francisco-49ers) walkthrough prior to the Oct. 31 game in London. This Week 12 home loss to the St. Louis Rams (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/stl/st-louis-rams), who held on for a 36-33 victory, should seal his fate. [+] Enlargehttp://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1128/nfl_g_mcdaniels_300.jpg (http://espn.go.com/nfl/notebook/_/page/lastcall10012/john-clayton-last-call#)<cite>Justin Edmonds/Getty Images</cite>The Broncos' latest loss made the coaching seat even hotter for Josh McDaniels.


The Broncos have lost 16 of their past 21 games and are spiraling out of control. The Rams were 1-15 last season and had not won on the road this season until meeting Denver. The Broncos couldn't stay competitive with the Rams early in the game, another inexcusable offense. The league spent roughly 10 days in Denver reviewing and studying Spygate II and came down with its ruling this weekend. Bowlen has to deal with that embarrassment and a 3-8 season. McDaniels was the decision-maker who traded away Peyton Hillis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11461), who as a Cleveland Brown has become one of the best running back stories of the season. McDaniels put together an aging secondary that is playing even older than the players' birthdates. At one point Sunday, injuries necessitated four rookies in the team's nickel defense, a recipe for disaster. The offensive line has two rookie starters and holes. McDaniels drafted Tim Tebow (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=13200), who sells more jerseys than he's involved in plays, but the only thing giving the Broncos any hope is quarterback Kyle Orton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8520), who was brought in as a short-term solution. Bowlen is one of the most competitive owners in sports, but he believes in fair play. Bill Belichick can survive Spygate because he is one of the best coaching minds on the planet. McDaniels' lack of institutional control has the Broncos on probation and now he's facing his firing. Rallying against the Rams in the final minutes helped, but the Broncos still lost.

Jason in LA
11-29-2010, 12:41 PM
I am 34 and have never seen anything like this in Denver. I wasn't as emotionally involved as a kid, but I can't remember anything ever stinging like this even going back to the early Elway years... but yeah, you're right. I really don't remember much prior to the early to mid 80's and we had some pretty fun (and competitive) years from that point forward.

I wonder if the feeling would be the same if we were losing games by two or three points similar to what the Browns have been doing. I don't get to see much of their games so I really don't know how competitive they are, but they seem to be in most every game. I think that shows a team that is a few players away. A team that consistently gets "handled" is what most fans are griping about... I think.

I'd be all for bringing in an accountability guy. Hell, bring in Elway to be that guy. He may not know the ins and outs of the business but he would at least buy McD some time with the fan base so that he could turn this thing around. But I'm guessing most fans don't want to see McD get that opportunity at this point. I personally see the issues as more of a Pat Bowlen/Front Office issue than a Coach McD issue. GM McD is a whole issue in and of itself.

I became a fan in '87. From what I know about the early '80s, they weren't the best of times, but they weren't the worst of times either.

As for the games this year, they've have been down by a lot of points in a number of games. They were down by 28 points against the Chargers last week before losing by 21, against the Raiders from the first quarter on they were down by a lot, the Rams were beating them by 20 points before they came back, the Niners were up on them by 14 before the Broncos cut it to 8, the Ravens held a 21 before winning by 14, the Colts beat them by 14.

Really looking at it, in the 8 losses they've only held a 4th quarter lead in one of those games (Jets) and in one other they were tied (Jags).

It hasn't been very pretty for the Broncos.

TonyR
11-29-2010, 01:09 PM
At one point Sunday, injuries necessitated four rookies in the team's nickel defense, a recipe for disaster. The offensive line has two rookie starters and holes.

Not only are all these rookies forced into action but we're generally talking about mid rounders at best. No excusing this team's play overall but hard to win in this situation.

jhns
11-29-2010, 01:30 PM
Not only are all these rookies forced into action but we're generally talking about mid rounders at best. No excusing this team's play overall but hard to win in this situation.

That is, unless you are the team McDaniels inherited. They won 8 games with that exact situation. Lots of injuries, no defense, no special teams, and no talent (according to people here).... 8 wins.

But hey, at least McDaniels has excuses. Excuses beat results every time.

PRBronco
11-29-2010, 01:33 PM
Not only are all these rookies forced into action but we're generally talking about mid rounders at best. No excusing this team's play overall but hard to win in this situation.

Yeah seriously I don't see how people aren't getting this.

TonyR
11-29-2010, 01:35 PM
That is, unless you are the team McDaniels inherited. They won 8 games with that exact situation. Lots of injuries, no defense, no special teams, and no talent (according to people here).... 8 wins.


Other than RB where I know there were multiple injuries did that team have a lot of injuries? I honestly don't recall the specifics.

bendog
11-29-2010, 01:36 PM
Yeah seriously I don't see how people aren't getting this.

People get it, but he inherited a team that scored more and gave up fewer pts and he's had two years.

Rabb
11-29-2010, 01:39 PM
Other than RB where I know there were multiple injuries did that team have a lot of injuries? I honestly don't recall the specifics.

Boss Bailey alone probably accounted for more injuries than many other teams

kamakazi_kal
11-29-2010, 01:40 PM
Bottom line is winning, something that McD isn't producing.

Man at this point I would settle for a little improvement. We seem to be getting worse ..... We have to be one of the worst teams in the league right now.

jhns
11-29-2010, 01:42 PM
Other than RB where I know there were multiple injuries did that team have a lot of injuries? I honestly don't recall the specifics.

Yes they did. Not many others on offense but the defense was killed by them. Well, maybe not killed as they weren't good before the injuries. Anyways, at one point we were playing games without a single starting LB, a missing safety, Champ was out, and we were missing a starting DE from before the season even started. These were just the starters missing. It was in these games that Larsen was starting on all three units and we had other undrafted rookies like Woodyard being heavily relied upon.

bendog
11-29-2010, 01:49 PM
Other than RB where I know there were multiple injuries did that team have a lot of injuries? I honestly don't recall the specifics.

champ, boss, dj missed significant chunks. I thought the oline had injruy problems, but apparantly not.

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/denver-broncos/roster/2008

imo its not so much that den had so many injuries this year, or that year. Sure it was odd how many rbs went down, but GB and NO have had very similar situations, and they're both in the playoff hunt. Den's defense did them in 08, not the failure to score in the red zone via the run so much. This year, it's been two drafts that failed to add depth to an aging and pretty bad defense left from 08.

Injuries are just an excuse for teams that lose. Sure, with no injuries, Den makes the playoffs in 08 maybe. With no injuries, this team maybe wins 8. In 96 Den stayed pretty healthy as I recall. Zimmerman missed a couple. in 97 Elway missed games. The offensive line was moved around a little, but TD got 2000.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2010, 02:15 PM
A lot of injuries is one thing. A key injury -- like losing Dumervil for the season -- is a different beast.

Think Green Bay is still in contention if Clay Matthews is on IR? I don't.

Gutless Drunk
11-29-2010, 02:22 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AmWj1ke0EhDceAeRjZe_gd5DubYF?slug=ms-morningrush112910


As a Bill Belichick wannabe who presides over the Denver Broncos’ universe like a hyper-paranoid dictator, Josh McDaniels is viewed as somewhat of a circus act in NFL circles – and never more so than in the last two days, when he tried to play the football world like chumps in the wake of an embarrassing cheating scandal that came to light Saturday morning. First, McDaniels portrayed himself as the emblem of integrity in claiming that since-dismissed video coordinator Steve Scarnecchia filmed a portion of the San Francisco 49ers’ walkthrough before the two teams’ meeting at Wembley Stadium late last month, and that the coach summarily refused to view the illicit tape before Denver’s 24-16 defeat. I talked to several other NFL head coaches, and numerous front-office executives, over the past few days, and the number of them who believe that McDaniels neither ordered the filming nor viewed it is the same as John Blutarsky’s grade-point-average in “Animal House”: 0.0. The fact that Scarnecchia had apparently been involved in the Patriots’ Spygate scandal before being hired by McDaniels made the coach’s claims even more dubious. Worst of all was McDaniels’ reaction after being fined $50,000 by the NFL for failing to report the violation (with owner Pat Bowlen receiving a fine of the same amount). Instead of accepting the punishment with humility and being thankful that his employers stood by him publicly, at least for now, McDaniels did what he always does: Tried to bully everyone around him into submission. It’s one thing when Belichick, one of the greatest coaches of his era, flexes his power internally; when a 34-year-old coach who (after Sunday’s 36-33 home defeat to the St. Louis Rams) has lost 16 of his past 21 games is doing a lame Tony Soprano impression, it’s a little tough to stomach. That didn’t stop McDaniels, according to a report by Fox’s Jay Glazer, from telling his assistants at a meeting informing them of the impending cheating revelations on Friday morning, “If this gets out, there are jobs on the line.”

Smooth move, Josh, and guess what – someone blabbed to Glazer, potential consequences be damned. You’ll be happy to know that I, too, talked to someone in the organization Sunday night who said, “If he treated people right, everybody’d just keep their mouths shut. But when you treat people like a piece of [expletive], this is what happens.” I’m sure that when McDaniels reads this – and trust me, he will – his first reaction will be, “Who said this?” And that would the wrong reaction. Instead, McDaniels should ask, “How has this cheating episode affected the people I work with, many of whom will be unfairly associated with this dishonorable behavior? And how can I make it up to them as we try to band together as a staff and get our team to perform well enough over the final five games that we might somehow remain employed past 2010?” Realistically, however, I don’t think McDaniels cares about the professional fate of anyone but himself. Further evidence of this can be found in Glazer’s report that McDaniels told his assistants the Patriots’ taping practices were far worse than the incident for which the Broncos got caught, allegedly saying that what went down in New England “was practiced … was coached … was worked on.” I wish McDaniels the best of luck explaining that apparent sellout move and utter lack of gratitude to Belichick, his mentor, and to his former Patriots colleagues and players. And to Bowlen and chief operating officer Joe Ellis – and everyone else in the Denver organization who has been negatively impacted by this embarrassment – I extend my deepest sympathies. There are jobs on the line, all right, and if McDaniels’ position isn’t one of them, the Broncos are pro football’s most gullible organization.

Rabb
11-29-2010, 02:30 PM
A lot of injuries is one thing. A key injury -- like losing Dumervil for the season -- is a different beast.

Think Green Bay is still in contention if Clay Matthews is on IR? I don't.

I agree Moose that Doom is vital to a great pass rush...but I just refuse to buy into the loss of him alone making our defense completely inept in that area

Sorry, but if we were relying on one guy to carry us to the promise land that is not a QB (maybe the one position where a major injury would be devastating) then we might be in trouble to begin with.

At a bare minimum it means that we have no depth, and that's 100% a product of the guy in charge.

We should be able to get by without Doom...there are a lot of teams that lost guys that are pretty good (Revis, Reed, Polamalu, etc.) and they somehow keep on trucking. Probably because, they make sure they have depth...maybe not pro bowl depth but depth in any case that can manage.

PRBronco
11-29-2010, 02:31 PM
I agree Moose that Doom is vital to a great pass rush...but I just refuse to buy into the loss of him alone making our defense completely inept in that area

Sorry, but if we were relying on one guy to carry us to the promise land that is not a QB (maybe the one position where a major injury would be devastating) then we might be in trouble to begin with.

At a bare minimum it means that we have no depth, and that's 100% a product of the guy in charge.

We should be able to get by without Doom...there are a lot of teams that lost guys that are pretty good (Revis, Reed, Polamalu, etc.) and they somehow keep on trucking. Probably because, they make sure they have depth...maybe not pro bowl depth but depth in any case that can manage.

All teams with ridiculously awesome pass rushing. It's not a coincidence.

Rabb
11-29-2010, 02:34 PM
All teams with ridiculously awesome pass rushing. It's not a coincidence.

and why do you think they have such good pass rushing?

you and I are making the same point here...they have an organization that gets good players in there from top to bottom

instead of a couple awesome guys and a bunch of retreads and unknowns

I am not saying having Doom out doesn't hurt, but the way we are playing I don't believe for a second that we are so dramatically better with a healthy Doom that we aren't still having these conversations about losses

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2010, 02:34 PM
I agree Moose that Doom is vital to a great pass rush...but I just refuse to buy into the loss of him alone making our defense completely inept in that area

Sorry, but if we were relying on one guy to carry us to the promise land that is not a QB (maybe the one position where a major injury would be devastating) then we might be in trouble to begin with.

At a bare minimum it means that we have no depth, and that's 100% a product of the guy in charge.

We should be able to get by without Doom...there are a lot of teams that lost guys that are pretty good (Revis, Reed, Polamalu, etc.) and they somehow keep on trucking. Probably because, they make sure they have depth...maybe not pro bowl depth but depth in any case that can manage.

I see what you're saying, but it's not just that we'd be "counting on one guy." Dumervil's presence on the line automatically means offenses have to account for him, usually with two guys. Who, in our front seven, demands a double team? Anyone? Not without Dumervil there.

With Doom and Ayers on the field, who do you double? With Doom, Ayers, Williams and Bannan on the field, who do you allocate resources to stop?

Having Dumervil and his endless motor isn't about having one guy. I think it would make a massive difference if he were out on the field.

I get what you're saying about depth, but come on. What kind of depth was McDaniels given when he got here? We've been complaining about depth for the last five years, and he's supposed to fix the depth problem AND get impact starters in two off seasons? I mean... come ON man.

jhns
11-29-2010, 02:35 PM
All teams with ridiculously awesome pass rushing. It's not a coincidence.

And none of them depend on a single guy for a pass rush. It is ridiculous to think Elvis would take us from worst defense in the league to even respectable. Every good defense has 3-4 good pass rushers minimum.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2010, 02:37 PM
and why do you think they have such good pass rushing?

you and I are making the same point here...they have an organization that gets good players in there from top to bottom

instead of a couple awesome guys and a bunch of retreads and unknowns

I am not saying having Doom out doesn't hurt, but the way we are playing I don't believe for a second that we are so dramatically better with a healthy Doom that we aren't still having these conversations about losses

The people building those organizations have been the same people in the same positions for many many years.

You're comparing that situation to ours, where our key decision makers have been on the job in that capacity in Denver for two seasons.

I mean... come ON man!

Also, the players that were listed as "key injuries" above (Revis, Polamalu, etc.) were not front 7 guys. They're DBs. That doesn't affect the front 7, so it's a completely different issue losing those guys compared to losing a Dumervil, or an Ayers, etc.

Rabb
11-29-2010, 02:38 PM
I get what you're saying about depth, but come on. What kind of depth was McDaniels given when he got here? We've been complaining about depth for the last five years, and he's supposed to fix the depth problem AND get impact starters in two off seasons? I mean... come ON man.

he has had a couple drafts and plenty of 1st and 2nd round picks to take some chances, no?

Rabb
11-29-2010, 02:40 PM
I won't try to convince you, it's a difference of opinion and it won't matter anyhow

I personally don't buy into it

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2010, 02:40 PM
he has had a couple drafts and plenty of 1st and 2nd round picks to take some chances, no?

Sure he has. And how long does it take the average rookie to develop into a worthwhile starter? 2-3 years? He also had to address things on the other side of the ball, where he was also responsible for building a contending offense.

I understand wanting to boil it down to the simplest of ideas, but really, if he'd gone all-defense, and those defensive starters weren't doing enough, and our offense was bad, he'd STILL be catching hell for not doing enough in the draft and FA period.

elsid13
11-29-2010, 02:41 PM
Please remember that elder Goodman was acting as experienced GM, until younger Goodman and McDaniels couldn't get along. Xanders was promoted because he and Josh had good working relationship. So for King to say it wasn't fair to McDaniels that he didn't have experience GM ain't actually true.

jhns
11-29-2010, 02:44 PM
LOL @ Moose and others still defending McDaniels... Wow...

oubronco
11-29-2010, 02:44 PM
champ, boss, dj missed significant chunks. I thought the oline had injruy problems, but apparantly not.

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/denver-broncos/roster/2008

imo its not so much that den had so many injuries this year, or that year. Sure it was odd how many rbs went down, but GB and NO have had very similar situations, and they're both in the playoff hunt. Den's defense did them in 08, not the failure to score in the red zone via the run so much. This year, it's been two drafts that failed to add depth to an aging and pretty bad defense left from 08. Injuries are just an excuse for teams that lose. Sure, with no injuries, Den makes the playoffs in 08 maybe. With no injuries, this team maybe wins 8. In 96 Den stayed pretty healthy as I recall. Zimmerman missed a couple. in 97 Elway missed games. The offensive line was moved around a little, but TD got 2000.

There isn't much left of that aging 08 defense McD has addressed the 08 defense he just hasn't done it with young good talent

oubronco
11-29-2010, 02:48 PM
and why do you think they have such good pass rushing?

you and I are making the same point here...they have an organization that gets good players in there from top to bottom

instead of a couple awesome guys and a bunch of retreads and unknowns

I am not saying having Doom out doesn't hurt, but the way we are playing I don't believe for a second that we are so dramatically better with a healthy Doom that we aren't still having these conversations about losses

Exactly rebuilding a team takes time

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2010, 02:49 PM
LOL @ Moose and others still defending McDaniels... Wow...

Hey. Retard. I'm not defending anything. I know this is hard for you to understand, but some of us want to talk football. That includes analyzing things like "what could have made a difference this year?" and "how are injuries involved in this equation?" not just "FIRE MCDANIELS U GYZ BECUZ HE IS BAD 4 THA TEEM Y U GYZ HATE DA BRONCOZ?!?!?"

This is an adult discussion. It appears to be too grown up for you. Perhaps you should see your way out of it.

Thinking Dumervil would make a difference for the entire defense as a whole isn't "defending" McDaniels. It's not really "defending" anyone, except maybe the impact of Dumervil as a player.

But because you're so simple-minded, you put it into the category of "defending McDaniels." It's stupid, pathetic, childish, retarded, and completely unsurprising coming from you.

bendog
11-29-2010, 02:51 PM
Exactly rebuilding a team takes time

taking a rb at 11 in a weak rb draft sort of SUCKED.

fontaine
11-29-2010, 02:51 PM
l. Peyton Hillis, for whom the Browns will still get two sixth-round picks from Denver, the last two pieces of what's looking like a fantastic trade for Cleveland. Denver got the invisible Brady Quinn in return.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/11/28/week-12-monday-morning-qb/4.html#ixzz16gasqjnf


FFS, this is turning out to be one of the dumbest trades in the NFL in recent memory.

Rabb
11-29-2010, 02:52 PM
You and I generally see eye to eye Moose, I have no issue with you so don't take this as me taking the side of the great J-Hizzle

buut, the conversation went from Doom to me saying it was an organizational thing putting us in the place of missing Doom so much to you saying

Sure he has. And how long does it take the average rookie to develop into a worthwhile starter? 2-3 years? He also had to address things on the other side of the ball, where he was also responsible for building a contending offense.

I understand wanting to boil it down to the simplest of ideas, but really, if he'd gone all-defense, and those defensive starters weren't doing enough, and our offense was bad, he'd STILL be catching hell for not doing enough in the draft and FA period.


when I said he (coach) had a couple years to try and rebuild our D a little

again, not attacking you here...but if you weren't defending the coach with that statement...I have no idea what you were saying

jhns
11-29-2010, 02:52 PM
Hey. Retard. I'm not defending anything. I know this is hard for you to understand, but some of us want to talk football. That includes analyzing things like "what could have made a difference this year?" and "how are injuries involved in this equation?" not just "FIRE MCDANIELS U GYZ BECUZ HE IS BAD 4 THA TEEM Y U GYZ HATE DA BRONCOZ?!?!?"

This is an adult discussion. It appears to be too grown up for you. Perhaps you should see your way out of it.

Thinking Dumervil would make a difference for the entire defense as a whole isn't "defending" McDaniels. It's not really "defending" anyone, except maybe the impact of Dumervil as a player.

But because you're so simple-minded, you put it into the category of "defending McDaniels." It's stupid, pathetic, childish, retarded, and completely unsurprising coming from you.

"I'm not defending him I'm just making excuses for him!"

Alright. I get it. You can settle down now. Just go back to defending the downfall of this organization.

oubronco
11-29-2010, 02:53 PM
taking a rb at 11 in a weak rb draft sort of SUCKED.

Especially when we needed Defense

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2010, 02:55 PM
"I'm not defending him I'm just making excuses for him!"

Sure thing buddy.

Anyone speak retard? I can't seem to get through to this one.

Again. It's an adult conversation. I'm sure there's a "fire McDaniels" thread to which you could add your special brand of stupid. Maybe you should try that, and let the adults talk for a little while.

zdoor
11-29-2010, 02:56 PM
taking a rb at 11 in a weak rb draft sort of SUCKED.

This... I could live with the record. The problem is that we don't show improvement and IMO have the same amount of question marks, if not more than when McDaniels got here.

My big issue was/is and continues to be that we have spent all our resources rebuilding an offense that could have waited a year or 2 for an overhaul and neglected what was without question already abysmal in the D.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2010, 02:58 PM
You and I generally see eye to eye Moose, I have no issue with you so don't take this as me taking the side of the great J-Hizzle

buut, the conversation went from Doom to me saying it was an organizational thing putting us in the place of missing Doom so much to you saying




when I said he (coach) had a couple years to try and rebuild our D a little

again, not attacking you here...but if you weren't defending the coach with that statement...I have no idea what you were saying

I'm not defending anyone. I'm discussing the problems, and how things might be different, if we had Dumervil on the field this season. That's not defending anyone. It's having a conversation. Nothing more.

elsid13
11-29-2010, 03:00 PM
taking a rb at 11 in a weak rb draft sort of SUCKED.

That draft was strong in three areas - interior linemen, edge rushers and defense line. We got one player in those areas that still on the team (Ayers).

bendog
11-29-2010, 03:06 PM
It's just that he's not a competent Head Coach. He's pissed off his own staff. Of all the people on the team, those are the guys who should have his back since he hired them. The drafting has been questionable at best, and that's giving Tebow the benefit of the doubt, but that's not been the worst of it. When Nolan opted out and there were the reports of McD trying to control the coordinators access to the media .... it's paranoia. Sometimes there's a reason to be paranoid. It's like he's afraid people will notice he is screwing the pooch and not in the mike vick way.

coachmastermind
11-29-2010, 03:09 PM
King did not mentioned the supposed reasoning why a coach may have leaked private information from a coaches meeting to the media. - If it's true that after the Raiders game McD paraded the coaches into Bowlen's office and chewed them out in front of him, I've given him more credit as a leader than I should have, and I didn't give him much. That is one of the weakest things I've ever heard of doing. I'd really want to follow someone like that. As the HC he needs to take the responsibility, and if there are issues to handle, handle them privately. He comes off looking like a spoiled brat, that can say from a podium after the game that it's his fault, but then behind closed doors he's above the blame.

One way you can tell that he is a weak leader is he easily feels threatened. That is why we can't fire him now, there is no one to become the interim HC, because he's surrounded himself with "yes people", and got rid of people like Mike Nolan. I think part of the reason he got rid of some of the players everyone talks about is he feels threatened by Mike Shanahan's legacy, and didn't want to win with "Mike's guys".

It's weak, and it's sad.

Broncomutt
11-29-2010, 03:27 PM
"Our word for the week is accountability." ~ Josh McDaniels

Ha!

thecool
11-29-2010, 05:27 PM
I wasn't the only one that noticed either, a couple guys around me commented. Why is it when he should be out there firing someone up or actually...coaching...he is all by his lonesome most of the time with his arms folded?

Again, I am no football guru...but it just looked exactly like it looked during the Raiders debacle to me. He's completely lost me though so maybe I am biased.

Well 1st off, if you watched the game on TV, you don't know what he's doing every second.

But to answer that question, when he does that people say he's a bad coach because he has too much energy. If he doesn't, then people like you come around.

Goobzilla
11-29-2010, 06:40 PM
Josh is mopier than Cutler when things aren't going well these days. A solitary man with his laminated play sheet looking for something that isn't there.

Rabb
11-30-2010, 07:50 AM
Well 1st off, if you watched the game on TV, you don't know what he's doing every second.

But to answer that question, when he does that people say he's a bad coach because he has too much energy. If he doesn't, then people like you come around.

people like me?

really?

I am sure you went ahead and researched any post I have ever made to come up with that right? No?

shocking

I am all for him showing energy and never once bashed the guy for it...but thanks for attempting to be cute while not answering anything. And FYI, I was at the game.

Mountain Bronco
11-30-2010, 08:00 AM
McD can be right about trading those players (I'm still glad he ditched Cutler and Marshall) and still be a bad Head Coach, you know.

Exactly. My dislike of McD right now has nothing to do with Cutler and Marshall. Hell, I love Loyd and Orton is decent, so that hasn't killed us. His affinity to yes men and his total lack of understanding a Defense is what kills me.

fontaine
11-30-2010, 08:55 AM
Well, this week is going to be interesting. After the low class move from Haley, I'll bet Josh is pretty fired up in wanting to beat the Chiefs, and this time if we win big and Haley does the same thing:

Josh: "All I'm trying to do is shake your mu*******in' hand"!