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tsiguy96
11-28-2010, 08:35 PM
what a sad attempt. dan graham with a ball right on the money and drops it. ryan harris beat like a drum on 2 attempts. ortons asked to carry this team on his shoulders and he does it, but the other people on the team need to do their jobs.

Pony Boy
11-28-2010, 08:42 PM
Final drive is correct......are we in off season mode now?

tsiguy96
11-28-2010, 08:43 PM
heh, might as well be.

rugbythug
11-28-2010, 08:46 PM
Does Kyle Orton have any 4th quarter wins?

Clockwork Orange
11-28-2010, 08:49 PM
Oh what a ****ing joke. Orton stood there like a statue in the pocket on first down and did the one thing he couldn't do, which was take a sack. That pretty much killed the drive right there, but go ahead and try to put it on everyone else if it makes you feel better.

Clockwork Orange
11-28-2010, 08:50 PM
Oh, and to give you the unrevised version of it, Graham didn't drop that ball. He went up high to get it and the defender knocked it out of his hands.

But don't let that stop you from fidning all the wrong people to blame.

TonyR
11-28-2010, 08:50 PM
Oh what a ****ing joke. Orton stood there like a statue in the pocket on first down and did the one thing he couldn't do, which was take a sack. That pretty much killed the drive right there, but go ahead and try to put it on everyone else if it makes you feel better.

Why is it a joke? Orton failed but so did everyone else. Why blame one guy? Particularly the guy who threw for 347 yards and 3 TD's?

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2010, 08:52 PM
Does Kyle Orton have any 4th quarter wins?

This year, no. But he did his part in the 4th quarter tonight.

tsiguy96
11-28-2010, 08:53 PM
Oh, and to give you the unrevised version of it, Graham didn't drop that ball. He went up high to get it and the defender knocked it out of his hands.

But don't let that stop you from fidning all the wrong people to blame.

someone else just told me that, i didnt see that. so graham gets a pass if that was the case. harris, however, needs to be expected to block. should orton feel the pressure and move if needed? yes, but hes not really that type of QB and should have had long enough to throw the ball. go watch it again.

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2010, 08:53 PM
That final drive shouldn't have even been necessary. Gaffney catches that 2 pt conversion and everything afterwards is different.

Clockwork Orange
11-28-2010, 09:01 PM
Why is it a joke? Orton failed but so did everyone else. Why blame one guy? Particularly the guy who threw for 347 yards and 3 TD's?

It's a joke because of the OP's attempt to make it look like it was everyone but poor Kyle Orton's fault when he was the one who committed the biggest mistake of anyone.

And I couldn't care less what his numbers looked like after his disappearing act in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. I'm not trying to bag on Orton, but in the interest of fairness, he's just as culpable for this loss as anyone, despite his pretty numbers.

TDmvp
11-28-2010, 09:03 PM
what a sad attempt. dan graham with a ball right on the money and drops it. ryan harris beat like a drum on 2 attempts. ortons asked to carry this team on his shoulders and he does it, but the other people on the team need to do their jobs.

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8541/1574576278842b8978b1.jpg

go_broncos
11-28-2010, 09:05 PM
someone else just told me that, i didnt see that. so graham gets a pass if that was the case. harris, however, needs to be expected to block. should orton feel the pressure and move if needed? yes, but hes not really that type of QB and should have had long enough to throw the ball. go watch it again.

Our offense including QB doesn't show up till the 4th quarter when the game is out of reach..

broncosteven
11-28-2010, 09:16 PM
I look back to all those 3 and outs passing right after we abandoned our run game. It could make you wonder why, but why wonder why..

Popps
11-28-2010, 09:19 PM
I look back to all those 3 and outs passing right after we abandoned our run game.

This.

The final drive wasn't Orton's fault, but we lost the game much earlier.

This is usually the case.

Orton is no John Elway. We've established that. But, he put a couple of balls on the money that guys have to come up with. This loss isn't on him, remotely. He did his part to secure a win and just didn't get the help, including the help he needed from the coaching staff.

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2010, 09:19 PM
And I couldn't care less what his numbers looked like after his disappearing act in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. I'm not trying to bag on Orton, but in the interest of fairness, he's just as culpable for this loss as anyone, despite his pretty numbers.

"Just as culpable" as a defense that gave up 36? Really 39 if their kicker didn't crap the bed on an easy gimme. Or easily over 40 if the Rams didn't go into the "prevent offense" in the 4th quarter.

Our offense including QB doesn't show up till the 4th quarter when the game is out of reach..

Ummmm, Orton was doing great in the first quarter and second quarter. The lack of scoring in the middle of the second through 3rd quarters was more on the 2 turnovers that were out of his control and the inability to convert a few 3rd and 10+ situations that were the result of penalties, a few rushes for losses, and the usual OLine failures where guys that were being double teamed got through to Orton immediately.

Popps
11-28-2010, 09:20 PM
"Just as culpable" as a defense that gave up 36? Really 39 if their kicker didn't crap the bed on an easy gimme. Or easily over 40 if the Rams didn't go into the "prevent offense" in the 4th quarter.

Yea, that's the issue.

People just fail to realize that occasionally, your own offense is going to run into trouble and you've got to be able to play defense.

We couldn't play a lick, today.

Clockwork Orange
11-28-2010, 09:30 PM
Yeah, because I'm totally letting the defense off the hook here. Sure. ::)

Orton is just as culpable because he made plenty of mistakes of his own, including missing a wide open Brandon Lloyd for a TD in the first quarter that could have changed the entire complexion of the game. Or that when garbage time was over and the game was back into a competitive phase, he folded yet again.

I'm well aware that the defense was putrid. I've come to expect that because the people in charge have neglected to address it properly (something that John Lynch even pointed out during the broadcast). This is about people acting as if Kyle Orton wasn't as responsible for this loss as much as anyone else was....because he was.

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2010, 09:43 PM
Orton is just as culpable because he made plenty of mistakes of his own, including missing a wide open Brandon Lloyd for a TD in the first quarter that could have changed the entire complexion of the game. Or that when garbage time was over and the game was back into a competitive phase, he folded yet again.

He threw a bad ball to Lloyd, but it wasn't like it was some easy dumpoff pass. It was a deep sideline route that was underthrown, but catchable. Both announcers even confirmed it. It's a catch Lloyd usually makes.

And he didn't "fold when garbage time was over." C'mon. Give him at least a little credit for driving for those two 4th quarter TDs. He was still facing a real NFL defense there and it was a game. He threw a nice pass on the 2 pt conversion that was dropped and changed the complexion of the game too you know. The Graham pass was beautiful. It's not his fault that Graham couldn't secure it and the defender made a play. Sure the sack sucked, but it didn't really change too much. The other plays were outside of his hands. Pressure, pressure, pressure. It changes everything.

This is about people acting as if Kyle Orton wasn't as responsible for this loss as much as anyone else was....because he was.

Was he perfect? No. Is anyone saying he was? No.

But he wasn't as bad as the defense. He had no role in the 2 turnovers. He didn't hurt us with stupid penalties or allow DLinemen to beat double teams like there was nobody there. He is way, way down the list of responsible parties in this one. I'd say Prater and Colquitt are about the only ones below him to be completely honest.

mr007
11-28-2010, 09:44 PM
Yea, that's the issue.

People just fail to realize that occasionally, your own offense is going to run into trouble and you've got to be able to play defense.

We couldn't play a lick, today.

On the contrary, the D stepped up big when it needed to and gave the offense every chance it needed to win. Those 2 turnovers resulted in 10 points for the Rams and took whatever we may have gotten off the board (not to mention the potential field position differences).

The D definitely could have done better - but only played a part of the issue.

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2010, 09:51 PM
On the contrary, the D stepped up big when it needed to and gave the offense every chance it needed to win. Those

They gave up 36 pts. Their kicker missed a chip shot that could've made it 39. I can think of plenty of drives that they didn't step up big when it needed to.

I think they had one honest to goodness three and out that was the result of good, solid play. Every other one seemed to be the result of either a dropped pass by a wide open WR or them going into the "prevent offense" in the 4th quarter to simply run clock.

Clockwork Orange
11-28-2010, 09:51 PM
He threw a bad ball to Lloyd, but it wasn't like it was some easy dumpoff pass. It was a deep sideline route that was underthrown, but catchable. Both announcers even confirmed it. It's a catch Lloyd usually makes.

Watch the play again, Lloyd had to contort his body just to make a play on it. If Orton throws it to the inside, Lloyd catches it easily because he was that wide open. Instead he threw it out of bounds. It was a bad throw. I'm not crucifying him for it, but to act like that wasn't an important play or that it wasn't Orton's fault is just wrong. Lloyd was wide open and Orton missed him.

And he didn't "fold when garbage time was over." C'mon. Give him at least a little credit for driving for those two 4th quarter TDs. He was still facing a real NFL defense there and it was a game. He threw a nice pass on the 2 pt conversion that was dropped and changed the complexion of the game too you know. The Graham pass was beautiful. It's not his fault that Graham couldn't secure it and the defender made a play. Sure the sack sucked, but it didn't really change too much. The other plays were outside of his hands. Pressure, pressure, pressure. It changes everything.

The sack didn't change too much? It ran a fair amount of time off the clock and put the Broncos in 2nd and long (and eventually 3rd and 4th and long). Any coach or announcer will tell you that in that situation the one thing a QB can't do is take a sack. He needed to get rid of that ball one way or another. He stood in there too long and took a sack. It happens, but it was a really, really bad time for it.

Again, I'm not piling the entire loss on him, but if we're talking about that last drive, he made the biggest mistake. Orton isn't above criticism for his mistakes that contribute to losses just like anyone else.

Clockwork Orange
11-28-2010, 09:54 PM
They gave up 36 pts. Their kicker missed a chip shot that could've made it 39. I can think of plenty of drives that they didn't step up big when it needed to.

I think they had one honest to goodness three and out that was the result of good, solid play. Every other one seemed to be the result of either a dropped pass by a wide open WR or them going into the "prevent offense" in the 4th quarter to simply run clock.

This I totally agree with. The Broncos defense only really got stops when St. Louis went conservative. Had they kept the pedal to the metal for another drive or two, odds are this game never gets close and they hang 43-46 points on the Broncos.

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2010, 09:58 PM
The sack didn't change too much? It ran a fair amount of time off the clock and put the Broncos in 2nd and long (and eventually 3rd and 4th and long). Any coach or announcer will tell you that in that situation the one thing a QB can't do is take a sack. He needed to get rid of that ball one way or another. He stood in there too long and took a sack. It happens, but it was a really, really bad time for it.

Again, I'm not piling the entire loss on him, but if we're talking about that last drive, he made the biggest mistake. Orton isn't above criticism for his mistakes that contribute to losses just like anyone else.

I say it didn't change much because they still had 3 plays to overcome it and time wasn't an issue as they only needed a fg. If the other 10 guys had simply done their job on 2nd, 3rd or 4th down, it wouldn't have mattered at all. If Graham had simply been able to secure that pass for instance, they would've had the first and time.....if the OLine had simply done their jobs and given Orton more time on 3rd or 4th, same thing. The sack sucked for sure, but it wasn't the be all end all of the comeback attempt.

Clockwork Orange
11-28-2010, 10:01 PM
I say it didn't change much because they still had 3 plays to overcome it and time wasn't an issue as they only needed a fg. If the other 10 guys had simply done their job on 2nd, 3rd or 4th down, it wouldn't have mattered at all. If Graham had simply been able to secure that pass for instance, they would've had the first and time.....if the OLine had simply done their jobs and given Orton more time on 3rd or 4th, same thing. The sack sucked for sure, but it wasn't the be all end all of the comeback attempt.

No, it wasn't the end of the comeback attempt, but it definitely hurt and my entire point here has been that it wasn't just poor old Kyle Orton trying to drag his teammates across the finish line while they were the only ones making mistakes. That's how the OP was portraying it and that's just not true.

Believe me, there's plenty of blame to go around and Orton wouldn't be the first one I named if I was to go down the list.

Taco John
11-28-2010, 10:02 PM
I don't see how a QB that threw 3 TDs and 0 Ints can be pointed at as the problem with this team. It's Kyle's never say die attitude that puts us back in these kinds of games. The guy doesn't quit, even when those around him seem to be.

broncocalijohn
11-28-2010, 10:04 PM
Yea, that's the issue.

People just fail to realize that occasionally, your own offense is going to run into trouble and you've got to be able to play defense.

We couldn't play a lick, today.

We gave the Rams their highest scoring total for the season. BUT, dont forget that our coaches gave up on the running game in panic mode.....when it was 14 to 13 or was it when we were winning 13 to 7?
On Graham, that was great defense. You can see the loss at the fumble (or lack of fumble) call on the kickoff which led to 3 more points before halftime. Once again, players taking a break when there is a critical time for the team. WTF was Lloyd doing on that screen block? Do your job. It takes one F up to ruin a play.
This would have been one of the best comebacks in franchise history (points with time left), but came short. Anyone else want to mention how important ST and a guy like Bruton is to this unit? Glad he wasnt hurt enough to keep him out of that last Rams drive. The ****ing Rams have won one home game in the last 17 games. Make it 2 for 18 now. TOTAL UGH!

Clockwork Orange
11-28-2010, 10:05 PM
I don't see how a QB that threw 3 TDs and 0 Ints can be pointed at as the problem with this team. It's Kyle's never say die attitude that puts us back in these kinds of games. The guy doesn't quit, even when those around him seem to be.

I didn't say he's the problem with this team, nor did I say he quit. I did say he put up the bulk of his numbers when it looked like the game was out of hand and I'll totally stand by that. He's not the or really even a problem for this team.

I've been harping on the front seven on defense for so long that I thought I'd spread it around a bit. I have nothing left to say about that group.

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2010, 10:07 PM
Once again, players taking a break when there is a critical time for the team. WTF was Lloyd doing on that screen block? Do your job. It takes one F up to ruin a play.


Bingo. It's crap like this that doesn't get enough attention IMO. It's so easy for people to pick on the one player they may have a vendetta against when pointing to the lack of success of a particular unit, but it really is a team game and one mistake by one guy can completely blow up the best designed and otherwise best executed play.

MplsBronco
11-28-2010, 10:08 PM
Good god, clockwork, buy a clue. qb's miss receivers on 40 yard throws. It happens. Why aren't you frothing at the mouth about the two turnovers that led to 10 easy points.

We score 13 early and the D gives up like 5 scores in a row. Look at the Steelers, up 13-0 at half, end up going to overtime. I guess Big Ben sucks too. Imagine if we had a D that forced turnovers, got sacks, swung momentum in the game. Right now we have only one phase of the game out of 3 that can swing momentum and you rag on that one phase. ****ing idiotic.

gyldenlove
11-28-2010, 10:14 PM
I don't see how a QB that threw 3 TDs and 0 Ints can be pointed at as the problem with this team. It's Kyle's never say die attitude that puts us back in these kinds of games. The guy doesn't quit, even when those around him seem to be.

The problem on the last drive was play calling.

Royal was clearly the hot hand, so unless he is getting extra attention you put him in a situation where he can do big things. If he gets extra attention that is going to leave one of the other 2 in 1 on 1 - go that guy.

Things you do not do on a last minute drive to tie or win:

A. Set up a deep pass to the worst receiver on the team (Graham).
B. When you need 16 yards, don't have 1 guy run a route that will get it and leave everybody else short, you will get double or in this case quad coverage.
C. Run routes using lateral movement, the go route is fine when the defense is up high, but when the backed off the go route will never get open, so run double moves, slants, outs or any route that moves laterally, the defense can't both be deep and step in front of passes.

Clockwork Orange
11-28-2010, 10:14 PM
Good god, clockwork, buy a clue. qb's miss receivers on 40 yard throws. It happens. Why aren't you frothing at the mouth about the two turnovers that led to 10 easy points.

We score 13 early and the D gives up like 5 scores in a row. Look at the Steelers, up 13-0 at half, end up going to overtime. I guess Big Ben sucks too. Imagine if we had a D that forced turnovers, got sacks, swung momentum in the game. Right now we have only one phase of the game out of 3 that can swing momentum and you rag on that one phase. ****ing idiotic.

I'll type this real slow for you, Cletus. This thread was about the final drive, that's actually the very name of it! A thread in which the OP tried to act as if Orton was the poor victim of his teammates when anyone who actually watched the game could tell you otherwise. So that's why I'm not frothing at the mouth about things that had nothing to do with what was being discussed.

So try some reading comprehension, ****stick. I'm not blaming Orton for the loss or saying he sucks, but I'm sure that's how you somehow processed it. Do me a favor and repeat the 8th grade for a third time and maybe you'll be able to read my entire posts and not just the one syllable words.

TDmvp
11-28-2010, 10:16 PM
I think everyone here would pretty much agree with this like or dislike Kyle ...

He had tons of heart a "ok" skill set , doesn't play great most times in the clutch but doesn't lose many games and is by no means why we suck ...

I'm not sure you can ever put Kyle in deep hole week in and week out and think he can dig you out of them but Kyle wont ever dig you that hole.

Things could be worse he could play like Kyle Orton (when we got him I thought saying you have Kyle Orton was kinda like saying you have Joey Harrington)
Hilarious!

Clockwork Orange
11-28-2010, 10:21 PM
I think everyone here would pretty much agree with this like or dislike Kyle ...

He had tons of heart a "ok" skill set , doesn't play great most times in the clutch but doesn't lose many games and is by no means why we suck ...

I'm not sure you can ever put Kyle in deep hole week in and week out and think he can dig you out of them but Kyle wont ever dig you that hole.

Things could be worse he could play like Kyle Orton (when we got him I thought saying you have Kyle Orton was kinda like saying you have Joey Harrington)
Hilarious!

I completely agree with the idea that Kyle Orton is not what's wrong with this team.

lostknight
11-28-2010, 10:23 PM
The two early drivers that the Broncos settled for field goals where the difference in the game. Either one of them, not only do we win the game point-wise, I think the momentum factor knocks the rams out earlier. This team has no kill instict, no concept of any sort of momentum except the Tsunami that crushes them regularly.

Kyle failed in the clutch, but he was put in that situation by the defense.

lostknight
11-28-2010, 10:25 PM
I think everyone here would pretty much agree with this like or dislike Kyle ...

He had tons of heart a "ok" skill set , doesn't play great most times in the clutch but doesn't lose many games and is by no means why we suck ...

I'm not sure you can ever put Kyle in deep hole week in and week out and think he can dig you out of them but Kyle wont ever dig you that hole.

Things could be worse he could play like Kyle Orton (when we got him I thought saying you have Kyle Orton was kinda like saying you have Joey Harrington)
Hilarious!

Fair enough.

gyldenlove
11-28-2010, 10:29 PM
Just one thing, you do not win when you are 1 for 9 on 3rd down. We convert less than 33% of all 3rd downs, down from 48% in 2008, that is a reduction of 31%. This team is atrocious when it comes to red zone play and 3rd downs.

lostknight
11-28-2010, 10:31 PM
2 out of 21 third downs the last two weeks.

That's unacceptable. What's the Shanahan line? Quarterbacks earn their pay on third down?

epa86b@netzero
11-28-2010, 10:33 PM
On 3rd down, Harris was owned but Graham was helping Clady out on that play. On 4th down, Harris was owned again but this time Clady and Harris were left with 1on1 assignments.

That is coaching & lack of player execution.

Homer Simpson
11-28-2010, 10:37 PM
This year, no. But he did his part in the 4th quarter tonight.

Titans?

Homer Simpson
11-28-2010, 10:39 PM
I completely agree with the idea that Kyle Orton is not what's wrong with this team.

I absolutely agree. However, is he the future of the Denver Broncos at the QB position?

Popps
11-28-2010, 10:46 PM
We gave the Rams their highest scoring total for the season. BUT, dont forget that our coaches gave up on the running game in panic mode.....when it was 14 to 13 or was it when we were winning 13 to 7?

We were winning when we gave up on it, I believe.

I've been bitching about it all day long. Our offensive play-calling was **** today. Sure, it's nice that we played back into the game, but it never should have gotten to that point.

McDaniels talks all week about keeping Moreno involved.... and then just abandons the running game after it showed promise in the first quarter.

No wonder Moreno never tops 100 yards rushing. How could he?

Very disappointed in the staff today.

Defensively, we were a joke all day, of course. We somehow stopped the run... but couldn't defend on 3rd down to save our lives. I don't get that at all. We force them into tough spots all day... and just give them up one after the other.

Popps
11-28-2010, 10:49 PM
I absolutely agree. However, is he the future of the Denver Broncos at the QB position?

Maybe... but you've got to fix what's really wrong before you'll know.

You saw Manning get his ass handed to him tonight because his team didn't have a defense and the other team did.

We need to solidify the foundation of this team before we tinker more with the quarterback position. I actually think we've done some things that could help going forward. (With regards to being balanced.) But, we've got a lot of work to do, obviously.

lostknight
11-28-2010, 10:55 PM
I think it really depends on what we could get for Orton. If we could get a 2nd, a 3rd and a 4th in a fairly deep draft, then wouldn't you do it?

Sassy
11-28-2010, 11:01 PM
what a sad attempt. dan graham with a ball right on the money and drops it. ryan harris beat like a drum on 2 attempts. ortons asked to carry this team on his shoulders and he does it, but the other people on the team need to do their jobs.

This...and I was yelling at my tv on that one...I was pissed at Graham...get rid of him. He's old and slow.

Sassy
11-28-2010, 11:02 PM
I think it really depends on what we could get for Orton. If we could get a 2nd, a 3rd and a 4th in a fairly deep draft, then wouldn't you do it?

No.

Sassy
11-28-2010, 11:03 PM
Maybe... but you've got to fix what's really wrong before you'll know.

You saw Manning get his ass handed to him tonight because his team didn't have a defense and the other team did.

We need to solidify the foundation of this team before we tinker more with the quarterback position. I actually think we've done some things that could help going forward. (With regards to being balanced.) But, we've got a lot of work to do, obviously.

Manning also didn't have much of a running game.

Dagmar
11-28-2010, 11:08 PM
The new avatar is tremendous Sass.

Sassy
11-28-2010, 11:21 PM
The new avatar is tremendous Sass.

Thanks! Blueflame made it for me.

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2010, 05:16 AM
The two early drivers that the Broncos settled for field goals where the difference in the game. Either one of them, not only do we win the game point-wise,

This is just plain wrong. So you're saying that the Rams would've still gone into the prevent offense for the entire 4th quarter? Nothing at all would've changed play-calling wise etc. Please.

And you keep bringing up the 2nd field goal drive. Why? At no point did they miss out on some gimme TD and have to settle for a field goal. Sometimes, you know, a field goal is as good as you can get.

go_broncos
11-29-2010, 06:30 AM
Orton is not the leader..QB should be a leader and rally them when we are down..
I don't trust him when we need a TD/FG in the final drive.
He panics and does stupid mistakes(sack,fumble..).

He is a good backup QB.I hope Mcd will give Tebow a chance this year.
No point in starting Orton when he is not the future.

Broncos4tw
11-29-2010, 07:49 AM
Orton did enough in that game to win - he wasn't stupendous, but did ok. The entire team just failed though. Has no fire.. no motivation.. every week, they do not look like they are ready to play. I was impressed with the comeback.. but then I smack myself in the head and say "Um.. this was the RAMS! One of the crappiest teams in the league! They were 16 OF THEIR LAST 17 ROAD GAMES!" We shouldn't have got behind - we should have finished the comeback - we can't be the worst in the league. That's so disappointing.

WolfpackGuy
11-29-2010, 07:49 AM
The game was lost long before the final drive.

Where was the offense for 2.5 quarters?

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2010, 07:52 AM
The game was lost long before the final drive.

Where was the offense for 2.5 quarters?

There was a long stretch where they really didn't have the ball as a result of a few long, time consuming drives against the defense, the special teams turnover and Moreno's turnover.

Old Dude
11-29-2010, 08:05 AM
Let me get this right. We give up 36 points, at home, to the St. Louis Rams, and we're b****ing about our QB, who only managed a 110 rating with over 300 yards passing.

Okay, carry on.

fontaine
11-29-2010, 08:23 AM
Oh what a ****ing joke. Orton stood there like a statue in the pocket on first down and did the one thing he couldn't do, which was take a sack. That pretty much killed the drive right there, but go ahead and try to put it on everyone else if it makes you feel better.

No timeouts, 60 seconds and we needed around 30 yards of real estate in about 4 plays.

Orton had no choice but to stay in the pocket and go for the bigger pass plays which take a little longer to develop.

You'll get no argument from me when it comes to Orton's lack of mobility but the guy did bail out of the pocket plenty of times in the game when the pass rush got on top of him.

But to call him a statue when he clearly had to wait for the plays to develop and the piss poor protection is an exaggeration.

fontaine
11-29-2010, 09:06 AM
Orton is not the leader..QB should be a leader and rally them when we are down..
I don't trust him when we need a TD/FG in the final drive.
He panics and does stupid mistakes(sack,fumble..).

He is a good backup QB.I hope Mcd will give Tebow a chance this year.
No point in starting Orton when he is not the future.


Where the hell do people come up with this?

Orton is 28, entering the prime of his career with a huge improvement in his game and is putting up pro bowl type numbers in an offense that has an average OL and hit and miss running game.

He's demolished the ONE criticism people had about his game in his inability to hit the intermediate/long ball routes.

All this guy has done as a Bronco is work his a$$ off, improve as a player, team mate and leader AND holds himself responsible for the failings of the entire offense.

You're stacking all of that up against an complete unkown who's yet to show he can throw the ball effectively with his screwed up mechanics?

Hilarious!

Tebow is yet to prove he can throw the ball effectively in the NFL, nevermind grasp a complicated/diverse offense.

I'll put it to anyone as simply as this:

IF Tebow is all that and the future of this team let's see him win the job from Orton.

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2010, 09:08 AM
fontaine, you nailed it....

Rabb
11-29-2010, 09:12 AM
I look back to all those 3 and outs passing right after we abandoned our run game. It could make you wonder why, but why wonder why..

absolutely

yeah we had a shot at the end but much like all of the other losses that have been close...it shouldn't come down to that

it's becoming clear to me that he is scripting the first X amount of plays, then reverts back to his random play calling

it was so frustrating to watch us go away from the run so early when it was working

Br0nc0Buster
11-29-2010, 09:18 AM
Orton is the quick scapegoat for the uneducated fans

I wish it was that easy, but this team has way more issues than that and Kyle is one of the last people I would point the finger at

our defense is absolute trash, Martindale has no clue what he is doing either

Josh has a terrible tendency to also abandon the run when the defense shows any sort of resistence

all these factors working against Kyle yet he still gets the blame, its quite absurd

oh but I guess Kyle doesnt get mad enough or some other stupid **** while our defense is getting lit up by a rookie qb

TheChamp24
11-29-2010, 09:29 AM
Man, these arguments make me remember back to Jake Plummer when everybody would blame him for the losses and not the defenses.

TailgateNut
11-29-2010, 10:12 AM
Let me get this right. We give up 36 points, at home, to the St. Louis Rams, and we're b****ing about our QB, who only managed a 110 rating with over 300 yards passing.

Okay, carry on.


The Orton Haters/ Tebow Lovers will use that "crutch" until the cows come home.

In a strange way I wish they'd put "mini-Jesus" in there so they can see how badly a QB can **** up the situation.

I'd rather turn back the clock to last Aprils' draft and nix the Tebow pick.

TailgateNut
11-29-2010, 10:19 AM
Where the hell do people come up with this?

Orton is 28, entering the prime of his career with a huge improvement in his game and is putting up pro bowl type numbers in an offense that has an average OL and hit and miss running game.

He's demolished the ONE criticism people had about his game in his inability to hit the intermediate/long ball routes.

All this guy has done as a Bronco is work his a$$ off, improve as a player, team mate and leader AND holds himself responsible for the failings of the entire offense.

You're stacking all of that up against an complete unkown who's yet to show he can throw the ball effectively with his screwed up mechanics?

Hilarious!

Tebow is yet to prove he can throw the ball effectively in the NFL, nevermind grasp a complicated/diverse offense.

I'll put it to anyone as simply as this:

IF Tebow is all that and the future of this team let's see him win the job from Orton.


^This

He obviously has shown anyone that he's ready to start and lead an NFL team.

Every time I seen him trot onto the field and handoff the ball I say to myself: My daughter could do better than he in disguising the handoff. I just don't see what makes him the football god in the eyes of so many. I can only assume it's his "GoodBoyPersona".;)

Rohirrim
11-29-2010, 10:21 AM
Let me get this right. We give up 36 points, at home, to the St. Louis Rams, and we're b****ing about our QB, who only managed a 110 rating with over 300 yards passing.

Okay, carry on.

Look on the bright side. Bradford didn't have to get his uniform cleaned after this one. ;D

Rohirrim
11-29-2010, 10:22 AM
Where the hell do people come up with this?

Orton is 28, entering the prime of his career with a huge improvement in his game and is putting up pro bowl type numbers in an offense that has an average OL and hit and miss running game.

He's demolished the ONE criticism people had about his game in his inability to hit the intermediate/long ball routes.

All this guy has done as a Bronco is work his a$$ off, improve as a player, team mate and leader AND holds himself responsible for the failings of the entire offense.

You're stacking all of that up against an complete unkown who's yet to show he can throw the ball effectively with his screwed up mechanics?

Hilarious!

Tebow is yet to prove he can throw the ball effectively in the NFL, nevermind grasp a complicated/diverse offense.

I'll put it to anyone as simply as this:

IF Tebow is all that and the future of this team let's see him win the job from Orton.

Oops! Reality bites. ^5

go_broncos
11-29-2010, 10:40 AM
Where the hell do people come up with this?

Orton is 28, entering the prime of his career with a huge improvement in his game and is putting up pro bowl type numbers in an offense that has an average OL and hit and miss running game.

He's demolished the ONE criticism people had about his game in his inability to hit the intermediate/long ball routes.

All this guy has done as a Bronco is work his a$$ off, improve as a player, team mate and leader AND holds himself responsible for the failings of the entire offense.

You're stacking all of that up against an complete unkown who's yet to show he can throw the ball effectively with his screwed up mechanics?

Hilarious!

Tebow is yet to prove he can throw the ball effectively in the NFL, nevermind grasp a complicated/diverse offense.

I'll put it to anyone as simply as this:

IF Tebow is all that and the future of this team let's see him win the job from Orton.

hmm..interesting..So..you think the players that are playing right now got the start because they won the job???
Mcd ****ing started Jordon over Hillis..Don't be stupid.

Mcd is very clever..If he starts Tebow and he fails..then he might get fired this offseason.

Mcd is fake..

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2010, 10:44 AM
hmm..interesting..So..you think the players that are playing right now got the start because they won the job???
Mcd ****ing started Jordon over Hillis..Don't be stupid.


Well, if the widely accepted story coming out of two cities now that Hillis sucks in practice are true, and you combine those with Hillis' numerous brain farts at the beginning of last season, then I most certainly would see why Jordan could start over Hillis based on merit.

Now obviously it looks bad today, but for the 1000th time, we didn't see today's Hillis last season.

Rabb
11-29-2010, 10:52 AM
Well, if the widely accepted story coming out of two cities now that Hillis sucks in practice are true, and you combine those with Hillis' numerous brain farts at the beginning of last season, then I most certainly would see why Jordan could start over Hillis based on merit.

Now obviously it looks bad today, but for the 1000th time, we didn't see today's Hillis last season.

yep

Hillis even admitted as much, that he had a wake up call and is more driven now

but hey, that won't get in the way of the people crying about it

manchambo
11-29-2010, 10:58 AM
Oh what a ****ing joke. Orton stood there like a statue in the pocket on first down and did the one thing he couldn't do, which was take a sack. That pretty much killed the drive right there, but go ahead and try to put it on everyone else if it makes you feel better.

Agreed. That sack is unforgiveable. I would have a higher opinion of him as a clutch player if he had thrown a pick.

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2010, 11:01 AM
Agreed. That sack is unforgiveable. I would have a higher opinion of him as a clutch player if he had thrown a pick.

That's just idiotic. A pick ends the drive right then and there. Zero chance to win. A sack, while bad, in no way ended that drive. They still had three more chances to get a first down and had Graham simply done his job on 2nd down, or had anyone else done their jobs on 3rd and 4th downs, we would have. It was a bad play that could have been overcome. How do you overcome a pick there? You don't.

TailgateNut
11-29-2010, 11:05 AM
hmm..interesting..So..you think the players that are playing right now got the start because they won the job???
Mcd ****ing started Jordon over Hillis..Don't be stupid.

Mcd is very clever..If he starts Tebow and he fails..then he might get fired this offseason.

Mcd is fake..

No, coaches generally start second and third string and bench the first string.

God, you are a ****ing moron.

Broncoman13
11-29-2010, 11:26 AM
Where the hell do people come up with this?

Orton is 28, entering the prime of his career with a huge improvement in his game and is putting up pro bowl type numbers in an offense that has an average OL and hit and miss running game.

He's demolished the ONE criticism people had about his game in his inability to hit the intermediate/long ball routes.

All this guy has done as a Bronco is work his a$$ off, improve as a player, team mate and leader AND holds himself responsible for the failings of the entire offense.

You're stacking all of that up against an complete unkown who's yet to show he can throw the ball effectively with his screwed up mechanics?


Hilarious!

Tebow is yet to prove he can throw the ball effectively in the NFL, nevermind grasp a complicated/diverse offense.

I'll put it to anyone as simply as this:

IF Tebow is all that and the future of this team let's see him win the job from Orton.

Then why draft Tebow and trade for Quinn?

tsiguy96
11-29-2010, 11:28 AM
Then why draft Tebow and trade for Quinn?

competition at the most important position on the team :strong:

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2010, 11:28 AM
Then why draft Tebow and trade for Quinn?

How many times do we have to answer the same questions?

Simms had quite a bit to do with the Quinn move. And Tebow was drafted as the QBOTF in case Orton wasn't the answer.

jhns
11-29-2010, 11:38 AM
Orton is the quick scapegoat for the uneducated fans


Or the uneducated are just too over dramatic. No one is saying Orton is the only problem. People are saying he is one of many problems...

Anyways, he is one of the problems. When will people stop pretending this is fantasy football. It doesn't matter if a QB is great in garbage time. Look at his stat splits. When we are behind by 8 or less in a game, he has a 60 QB rating. When we are within a TD in the 4th, he has a 60 QB rating. In fact, a large majority of his interceptions(5 of 6) are when the game is within a TD...

This crap about the educated fan is just funny. How can you come with such a dumb conclusion after starting a post like that? Do you have no respect for yourself?

broncosteven
11-29-2010, 11:46 AM
yep

Hillis even admitted as much, that he had a wake up call and is more driven now

but hey, that won't get in the way of the people crying about it

So that is now 2 guys who thought they could skate by on mCd who move somewhere else and flourish.

Maybe it is mCd and his staff that is the problem for not getting the best out of their players?

Rabb
11-29-2010, 11:47 AM
So that is now 2 guys who thought they could skate by on mCd who move somewhere else and flourish.

Maybe it is mCd and his staff that is the problem for not getting the best out of their players?

I don't doubt it, but Shanny apparently missed on Hillis also

bendog
11-29-2010, 11:49 AM
I don't doubt it, but Shanny apparently missed on Hillis also

ummm, how do you figure that? (not that trading Hillis bothers me even now, thought the moreno draft pick made me ill and I'm still shaking my head like I shook my head over the Jarvis Moss pick)

PRBronco
11-29-2010, 11:51 AM
So that is now 2 guys who thought they could skate by on mCd who move somewhere else and flourish.

Maybe it is mCd and his staff that is the problem for not getting the best out of their players?

Sometimes I wonder that, then you look at Brandon Lloyd and Kyle Orton. Wtf? ???

Rabb
11-29-2010, 11:53 AM
ummm, how do you figure that? (not that trading Hillis bothers me even now, thought the moreno draft pick made me ill and I'm still shaking my head like I shook my head over the Jarvis Moss pick)

because the only play Hillis got was after we ran through every back we had including a guy selling phones in the mall

Hillis was Shanahan's last resort, and I seem to recall that year a lot of people complaining that he wasn't playing enough

so yes, ultimately Josh is the one that traded the guy...but he wasn't the only one to miss on his talent evaluation

I am not defending McD, but to place all of the blame on him for missing on Hillis is just factually incorrect

jhns
11-29-2010, 12:04 PM
because the only play Hillis got was after we ran through every back we had including a guy selling phones in the mall


That is just false. Hillis was the starter before Bell came. Bell was the last resort and the guy who ran in the final games.

Shanahan had Hillis as a rookie though. Hillis was the starting FB, which he was drafted for, to begin the season. Shanahan gave Hillis touches as he started at FB. Hillis then performed very well at RB when given the chance. The biggest difference between McDaniels and Shanahan is that McDaniels had tape of Hillis performing well at RB before he decided not to use him....

manchambo
11-29-2010, 12:13 PM
That's just idiotic. A pick ends the drive right then and there. Zero chance to win. A sack, while bad, in no way ended that drive. They still had three more chances to get a first down and had Graham simply done his job on 2nd down, or had anyone else done their jobs on 3rd and 4th downs, we would have. It was a bad play that could have been overcome. How do you overcome a pick there? You don't.

A pick would be a sign of him trying to make a play, rather than freezing up under big pressure. And it can't reasonably be denied that he held the ball way too long there.

Now, if he regularly throws picks there, it's obviously a big problem. But he needs to throw the damn ball and try to make a play. But even the best are going to throw some picks in that situation, because you have to take risks with the game on the line.

The underlying problem is that he is not a real playmaker. He is a skilled and reliable QB, and certainly very far from the problem with this team. I think he might could even be championship caliber on a team with an outstanding defense and strong O-line.

But, and especially on this team at this time, he is incapable of doing much with brokendown plays, or with the game on the line, and that's a problem.

Rabb
11-29-2010, 12:28 PM
That is just false. Hillis was the starter before Bell came. Bell was the last resort and the guy who ran in the final games.

Shanahan had Hillis as a rookie though. Hillis was the starting FB, which he was drafted for, to begin the season. Shanahan gave Hillis touches as he started at FB. Hillis then performed very well at RB when given the chance. The biggest difference between McDaniels and Shanahan is that McDaniels had tape of Hillis performing well at RB before he decided not to use him....

I'll give you Bell as a last resort...but he shared that label very evenly with Hillis in the big picture of things...anything prior to week 10 and Hillis was NOT the featured back

I am not an anti Hillis guy mind you, I am simply saying he wasn't just passed up on by McD, and I don't care if it was his rookie season or not

broncosteven
11-29-2010, 12:48 PM
Sometimes I wonder that, then you look at Brandon Lloyd and Kyle Orton. Wtf? ???

They were guys who went full seasons without action, it is easy to motivate guys who have been around and learned how to be professional, it is harder to motivate the kids just breaking into the league who think the world is theirs

TailgateNut
11-29-2010, 01:37 PM
How many times do we have to answer the same questions?

Simms had quite a bit to do with the Quinn move. And Tebow was drafted as the QBOTF in case Orton wasn't the answer.


Don't confuse the football gurus.